1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff you missed in history Class A production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio, Happy Friday, Everybody. I'm Holly Fry 3 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:18,479 Speaker 1: and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. Tracy, we met at a 4 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: time when we were both doing costume things. We sure did, 5 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 1: so this one makes all the sense on earth to me. Um. 6 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: Do you remember, though I'm not sure how I know, 7 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: you were involved a lot with a local costuming group 8 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: here in Atlanta, but I have for a long time 9 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: been involved with a lot of costuming message boards. And 10 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 1: do you remember when the term cosplay in lieu of 11 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: costuming got brought up in fan groups and like the 12 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:53,199 Speaker 1: massive debates and arguments over it. Yeah, most of the 13 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: debates that I recall, we're about whether there was a 14 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: difference between cost doming and cosplay. And there was an 15 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:05,400 Speaker 1: argument that if you were in cosplay, you were role 16 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 1: playing as a character, not just wearing a costume. Correct. 17 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: That came up a lot, and I think a lot 18 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 1: of it too. Um was an old guard thing, right, 19 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: people that had been in it for a long time 20 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 1: doing like you know whatever, m fan groupie costuming. There 21 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: was also a tendency to see cosplay as an a 22 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: largely automate thing and not other more mainstream pop culture things. Boy, 23 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 1: I remember how he did. Those discussions got and now 24 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 1: I just look back and go, who cares? None of 25 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: that was important? Why did we waste valuable life energy 26 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:45,399 Speaker 1: arguing about whether this word was appropriate for people to 27 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: use or not a lot of gatekeeping involved. Oh, of 28 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: course who was a cosplayer and who was a serious costumer? Right? Yeah? Uh, 29 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: you know what, have fun doing your thing. That's all 30 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: that matters. Life is, or grab your joide vie wherever 31 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: you can get so because you're not hurting anybody else, 32 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: go crazy where things act like the character or not. 33 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 1: I don't care. I support you and whatever you do. 34 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: I um, I of course love costuming. I love the 35 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: costuming community. I met my very best friend on a 36 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 1: Star Wars costuming forum twenty three or twenty four years ago, 37 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: so it's one that's close to me. And I actually 38 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: met Andrew several years ago. Um. He mentioned in our 39 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:36,919 Speaker 1: interview that Dragon Con he was taking some of the 40 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:38,959 Speaker 1: pictures and doing some of the interviews and research for 41 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 1: the book, and he and I met to just like 42 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:42,800 Speaker 1: have a drink there and catch up because we had 43 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: kind of known of each other, and so I met 44 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: him then when he was working on the book, and 45 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: I remember thinking it was a great project, and so 46 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:53,399 Speaker 1: I'm glad that despite the many setbacks in many projects 47 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 1: that have happened due to the pandemic, that this book 48 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:58,079 Speaker 1: is finally coming out and ready for the world. There's 49 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: a lot of really good history and imagery in it, 50 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: and it's a really like I was kind of blown 51 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: away by how deep into history he goes, especially because 52 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: cosplay is, as we said, a modern term. I at 53 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:14,920 Speaker 1: first was like, I would love to have you on 54 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: the show, but I really need to read the Galley 55 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: Verse make sure this actually feels like a natural fit. 56 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: And it really does. That m Jules verned party that 57 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 1: he talked about I was obsessed with when I was 58 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 1: reading that chapter so nice. I loved it. It's a 59 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: very fun read if you like if you like clothes costuming, 60 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: and also just if you like you know the history 61 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: of how people have taken on different visual personas to 62 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 1: to say things and be the you know, we talked 63 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: about protest costuming in in that conversation and how long 64 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 1: that has been going on, and just you know, all 65 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:58,839 Speaker 1: of the ways that people kind of change their perspective 66 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 1: by just dawning a different outfit that is outside of 67 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: their norm. I love all of that stuff. I love 68 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: the psychology of it. I love the workmanship that goes 69 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: into it. I love you know, I am a clothes horse. 70 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: Let's be honest. So, UM, I'm so grateful that that 71 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: Andre're gonna got to have that conversation and and reminisce 72 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 1: about many things and talk about how Star Wars brought 73 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:36,280 Speaker 1: us together. You talked about mother Rebecca Cox Jackson this 74 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: week and the community of UH predominantly Black Shakers that 75 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: she established in Philadelphia, which is not a place that 76 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 1: you would normally think of their being like a Shaker village. 77 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 1: Villages is usually what goes along with the words Shaker 78 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: in the context of places that people lived. Yes, I 79 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: mean we talked about in the episode how how most 80 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: of the places where um Shakers had gathered were rural. Yeah, 81 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: Philadelphia not rural at all, not at all. UM. And 82 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 1: so there's only one one active community still remaining that 83 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 1: has had two or three members over the last several years. UM. 84 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: A lot of the other places that used to be 85 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:26,159 Speaker 1: active Shaker communities are now Shaker museums. There are several 86 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 1: Shaker museums scattered around the u s that folks can 87 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 1: go to. There is also a museum at this one 88 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 1: that is still active in Maine, although I'm assuming because 89 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:39,359 Speaker 1: of COVID the museum is not currently open. One of 90 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 1: the interesting things that I found about about Rebecca Cox 91 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 1: Jackson is that she wrote so much about uh dreams 92 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 1: that she would have and visions that she would have, 93 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: and these experiences that she would have that to her 94 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:59,840 Speaker 1: were just like intrinsically holy and involved hearing something she 95 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:07,159 Speaker 1: out directly from God, and all of that is incredibly personal, right, 96 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 1: But at the same time, they weren't uh like, like, 97 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 1: they weren't written about to write them about them in 98 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:19,359 Speaker 1: an introspective way, so we like don't necessarily know what 99 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 1: her feelings were on things, or like what thought process 100 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: led her to make particular decisions. It was sort of 101 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: like I had this vision and that this is what 102 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: I decided to do. So people who have written about 103 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 1: her have had to kind of speculate about, um, you know, 104 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: why why did she decide to do this one particular thing. 105 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: And one of the sources of speculation is that, as 106 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: we said, the Shakers had as a core belief that 107 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: people were equal, so this included racial equality um. At 108 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:58,839 Speaker 1: the same time, though, Shakers in the nineteenth century did 109 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 1: not really conceive of themselves as like citizens of the 110 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: United States, so things that were legal matters or matters 111 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: of citizenship within the United States, like slavery. Slavery was 112 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: something that's Shakers objected to on moral and ethical grounds, 113 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: but there wasn't like an outwardly facing we have to 114 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: go get slavery abolished like that wasn't that that wasn't 115 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: really part of the world view that was going on. 116 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: And so there's been this speculation that maybe one of 117 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 1: the reasons that Rebecca Cox Jackson wanted to leave and 118 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 1: be somewhere else that she could do more direct outreach, 119 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: was so that she could have more direct influence and 120 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 1: impact on these kinds of things that we're seen as 121 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 1: like more mundane, uh non spiritual matters that most of 122 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: the Shaker community would not have been personally involved in. Right, 123 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 1: It's like the difference between belief and activism right right, Right, 124 00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 1: there was a core belief that everyone was equal, with 125 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 1: the caveat that Shakers, like everyone else, had been raised 126 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: in the same society that everyone else had been raised 127 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: in which was a racist society. So surely there would 128 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: have been people who still had implicit biases, uh, and 129 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: you know, attitudes that they may be needed to re 130 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: examine for themselves. But like there's a difference between that 131 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 1: and actively saying, Okay, we have got to work to 132 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: abolish slavery for the rest of the country. I will 133 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:34,200 Speaker 1: say that, um, as we mentioned in the episode, life 134 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 1: in a community such as that sounds incredibly difficult. Yeah. 135 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 1: So yeah, the the one village that's still actively operating 136 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 1: is called Sabbath Day Lake. It's in Maine. They have 137 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,959 Speaker 1: a website and they have a lot of videos from 138 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 1: one of the folks that are still actively living there 139 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: as a Shaker. And he has also done interviews and 140 00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: things like that in interviews and videos and other contexts. 141 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:01,439 Speaker 1: And one of the things that he talked about that 142 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 1: I did not have time to like go back and 143 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: explore very thoroughly is that there was a period where 144 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: Shaker leadership made an intentional choice to not focus on 145 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: recruiting more adult members, but to instead focusing on like 146 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 1: adopting children and raising them as Shakers, with the hope 147 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: that then as they grew up, they would continue to 148 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 1: be Shakers, which did not really like there were some folks, 149 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:28,719 Speaker 1: like some children that were adopted or foster fostered or 150 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 1: whatever who did continue to be Shakers, but a lot 151 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: of people left and sort of making the point that 152 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 1: the way of life was so difficult and so specific 153 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 1: in what was required that you could only keep this 154 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:46,679 Speaker 1: going if you continued to have more people coming in, 155 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 1: and if you weren't actively converting people to come in, 156 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 1: it was inevitable that the membership was going to dwindle 157 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 1: in the communities were going to start fading away. Basically, 158 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 1: I'm resisting urge to make this a discussion about jedi um. 159 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 1: Now that you mention it, I can see that there 160 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 1: are some parallels for sure. Um yeah, I think the 161 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:18,840 Speaker 1: way of life definitely. I'm sure sounds as alien too 162 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: many of our listeners as it does to me. And 163 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 1: I don't mean that to sound pejorative, but it just 164 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: sounds so completely different from the way most of us 165 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 1: live our lives that it's very hard to parse and 166 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 1: imagine oneself living in that manner. So I'm I kind 167 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 1: of could just sit here marveling. I also, for the record, 168 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 1: could not live as a Jedi. So you know, it's 169 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 1: aside from having no force abilities. Um, but it's um, 170 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 1: it's fascinating to me. I there's part of me that's like, 171 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: but if you recognize that there is an inherent lead 172 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: towards your membership falling back in numbers, are you sure 173 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 1: that is what a divine being would want? Right? But 174 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: that is my ignorant self talking. So I have no idea. Um. 175 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: You know, I have difficulty imagining a life other than 176 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 1: my own. Apparently I think all of us have that 177 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:23,199 Speaker 1: do at least some extent. Um. As I was as 178 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 1: I was researching this and I was reading some of 179 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 1: her writings, she reminded me a lot of in a 180 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 1: lot of ways of some of the medieval religious women 181 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: that we have talked about on the show, like Christian 182 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: mystics from the medieval period. Um. I felt like they 183 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:43,719 Speaker 1: had some parallels there. Oh. Yeah. I did not do 184 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 1: this on purpose, but when we were in Italy, there 185 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 1: was this little church in this little medieval town that 186 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:55,200 Speaker 1: we went to had all this artwork, and there was 187 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 1: monuments to a young woman who had died during the 188 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 1: medieval period, and there was a little pamphlet about her, 189 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 1: and I started reading it and it was you know, 190 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 1: it started off talking about how she had been very 191 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: devout and she was very beloved by her community, and 192 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 1: then she became very ill, and I had this moment 193 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,679 Speaker 1: where I was like, oh, I'm about to learn about 194 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 1: a like very obscure mystic and that same prior and 195 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 1: tradition um. And then it turned out that was it 196 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 1: was a much more straightforward and sad story. She she 197 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:30,719 Speaker 1: became very ill, and then she passed. She died, so 198 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 1: that was the sort of the end of the story. Then, 199 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: you know, her memory became the thing that that people 200 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 1: connected to this, and I was like, oh, I had 201 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 1: hoped to have another article or another podcast to research 202 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:46,439 Speaker 1: along those lines. Swoops, I don't. And then I got 203 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:49,840 Speaker 1: home and was looking for something that was not related 204 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 1: to Italy at all, because I had just written the 205 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 1: Marino Filierro episode and stumbled onto this name somewhere and 206 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 1: then was like, oh, this, by total coincidence, winds up 207 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 1: being sort of some of the things that my brain 208 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 1: had been mulling over while we were in Italy. I 209 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: was not able to read every single passage from her writings. 210 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: While I was working on this because there are quite 211 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: a lot of them, but I still have that book 212 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:23,200 Speaker 1: from the library. Usually when we get to the end 213 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 1: of an episode, the thing does not get like unless 214 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 1: unless we do our q A step on the episode 215 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, I think I mess something up. 216 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: I gotta go look that up. Like I don't return 217 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 1: to the subject matter, but in this case, I think 218 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 1: I might. I might continue reading the things that she 219 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 1: wrote in her journals and uh, and then Rebecca Parat's journals, um, 220 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,560 Speaker 1: just because I find them interesting. They are very different 221 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 1: from my own experience in the world. Uh, and I'm 222 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 1: glad she wrote them all down. If you would like 223 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 1: to send us a note or a history podcast that 224 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: I hurt radio dot com And uh, this is Friday, 225 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: so whatever is happening on your weekend, hope it's good. 226 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 1: And then we'll be back Saturday with the Saturday Classic 227 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: and then next week with brand new episodes. Stuff you 228 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 1: Missed in History Class is a production of I Heart Radio. 229 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I 230 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 231 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.