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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, alongside

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Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day, we bring

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Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along

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Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast

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Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and

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Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. Five thousand jobs added

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Speaker 1: in the month of July. That got my attention this morning.

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Speaker 1: I think I got the markets attention as well. So

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Speaker 1: we need to break it down and we do that

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Speaker 1: with Tom Gimball, founder and CEO of LASAL Network, joins

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Speaker 1: us every month to help us get a handle on

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Speaker 1: what's going on out there in the jobs market. Tom, Wow,

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Speaker 1: I didn't see it that coming. I don't think the

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Speaker 1: market did as well. What do you see out there

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Speaker 1: as you talk to your clients. I see that there's

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Speaker 1: no recession. It may come, but it's becoming a self

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Speaker 1: fulfilling prophecy there If if there is no jobs problem

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Speaker 1: and unemployment is a historic lows, the economy is good

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Speaker 1: and I understand what two consecutive quarters of negative GDP

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Speaker 1: GDP growth means. However, we've never had it coming out

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Speaker 1: of a global pandemic. We've never had it in the

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Speaker 1: global economy. We've never had it with supply chain problems.

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Speaker 1: And for people to say that we are in a

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Speaker 1: recession or the economy at bad is purely trying to

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Speaker 1: mislead people for their own political agenda. Well that says it,

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Speaker 1: damn dude. Um, I agree with you, although I can

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Speaker 1: understand why people would. You know, a lot of people

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Speaker 1: just fall back on old definitions and it's difficult to

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Speaker 1: move them, um from those. So but after having seen

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Speaker 1: the kind of growth that that was showed in the

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Speaker 1: jobs report today, and you know, with three and a

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Speaker 1: half percent unemployment, clearly we're not in a recession. But

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Speaker 1: what do you think this means for the Fed? Are

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Speaker 1: they get Are they just free to let loose? Are

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Speaker 1: they gonna go seventy seventy Are we going to five

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Speaker 1: percent or we're going to six percent? Fed funds? Listen,

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Speaker 1: what we're gonna see happen with the Fed is they'll

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Speaker 1: probably do what pop Will said before this report, and

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Speaker 1: they'll probably only do fifty basis points and they'll see

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Speaker 1: that will be the in the exact same situation. And

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Speaker 1: then coming on the last tike of the year, they'll

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Speaker 1: either do another fifty or seventy five. And so we're

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Speaker 1: getting to a point that it's still gonna be below

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Speaker 1: where it was fifteen years ago, twenty years ago. I mean,

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Speaker 1: people act like because we were having free money for

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Speaker 1: so long that that's the norm. That wasn't the norm.

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Speaker 1: It was an artificial stimulant. And now with the economy

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Speaker 1: is showing us is that it doesn't need zero percent

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Speaker 1: interest rates to grow. Interesting, if you know, it's I

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Speaker 1: guess the question for a lot of folks and Tom,

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Speaker 1: you see this every day you talk to your clients

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Speaker 1: that are hats are trying to define people? Is there?

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Speaker 1: I guess what are you hearing from your employers that

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Speaker 1: you talk with. I mean, where are the real challenges

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Speaker 1: in finding people? Because boy, it looks like it's still

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Speaker 1: employees marketing well and firm some pockets. Uh, this was

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Speaker 1: a disappointing report, Paul, and I have a bank of

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Speaker 1: screens up here. I'm looking at Fox News. Their headline

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Speaker 1: is white House MSS forecast on lower July jobs growth.

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Speaker 1: So for Fox this is a super weak report. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: and I think that goes back to what I said,

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Speaker 1: right is depending on on how things come and what

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Speaker 1: the narrative is is people have their own political agenda

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Speaker 1: and listen, I agree that Fox headline is ridiculous and

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Speaker 1: it's been the same way on the other way. I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm a capitalist, I'm not a political person. And when

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Speaker 1: I look at these things happen. What I'm talking to

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Speaker 1: my clients about they can't find people, so what are

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Speaker 1: they doing. What we're seeing is you're coming out of

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Speaker 1: the summer with recent college graduates being hired. So that

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Speaker 1: is a huge part where the summer numbers tend to

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Speaker 1: be better and they're gonna hire people right out of college.

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Speaker 1: We see the participation rate continue to go up, not

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Speaker 1: always by how much we want it to be. However,

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Speaker 1: there's a certain percentage of the market that is unemployable

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Speaker 1: that no politician will ever talk about because it's not

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Speaker 1: a popular view. And when we're moving forward on these things,

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Speaker 1: we see that unemployment is that historic lows. And what

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Speaker 1: are companies doing? Hey, it's a global economy. They're off shoring.

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Speaker 1: So many companies, whether it's manufacturing or technology, have people

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Speaker 1: in Eastern Europe, in Asia, in South America. I talked

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Speaker 1: to a company that's in the creative web design space,

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Speaker 1: a big company, UM, and they were saying how they

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Speaker 1: have a company that they bought in South America that's

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Speaker 1: doing creative work and digital work for them. It's not

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Speaker 1: just the stereotypical off shoing a call center to India

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Speaker 1: or having developers in Eastern Europe. We live in a

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Speaker 1: global economy and it's happening. So companies are hiring people

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Speaker 1: here in lower entry level jobs, sometimes outsourcing mid to

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Speaker 1: higher level jobs or vice versa. What we live in

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Speaker 1: is the greatest entrepreneurial country the world's ever seen. They

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Speaker 1: come up with solutions to solve their problems, the problem

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Speaker 1: with jobs, they're figuring out how to restaff It's it's

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Speaker 1: really a great story. It is. It is a fascinating,

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Speaker 1: uh story. And just I'm moved by this job's report.

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Speaker 1: I just really got me going. And the question is, um,

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Speaker 1: you know how much longer can inflation hold at this level? Now? Um?

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Speaker 1: Does it hold longer if we get good jobs reports?

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Speaker 1: Because Paul noted the forecast for cp I is eight

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Speaker 1: point seven percent. The situation is everybody, and I love

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Speaker 1: you guys, You're great. We're on every month, everybody's looking

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Speaker 1: to be chicken little lends. The stuff gonna fall. And

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying that we shouldn't plan, but sometimes you

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Speaker 1: have to enjoy your time at beat instead of always

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Speaker 1: packing up your stuff to leave if it's gonna rain.

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Speaker 1: And right, we've got a really good situation. Yeah, we've

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Speaker 1: got a good, good labor market. And Tom, you see

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Speaker 1: it firsthand on the ground there at as a founder

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Speaker 1: and CEO of less Out Network. Again, Tom Gibbill given

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Speaker 1: us some good perspective on what is just an extraordinarily

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Speaker 1: strong labor data point we got today that you can

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Speaker 1: certainly bet set of reserves taking a look at this

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Speaker 1: is Bloomberg. Our next guest, Jack Altman, CEO and co

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Speaker 1: founder of Lattice. Uh put some people to work and

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Speaker 1: that's good stuff there. I noticed that Jack former analysts

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Speaker 1: that Gleacher and company. That brings back some memories for me,

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Speaker 1: Eric Leacher talk about one of the mega big m

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Speaker 1: and a bank back in the day. Huge cool stuff there. Hey, Jack,

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Speaker 1: you're Atlattice. Now tell us what you guys are doing

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Speaker 1: at Lattice and talk to us about the environment you're

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Speaker 1: seeing right now. Yeah, thanks for having me Atlantics. We

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Speaker 1: make software to help companies do people management. So we

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Speaker 1: do things like performance management, employee surveys, career development, and

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Speaker 1: our lens on the world has been that modern companies

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Speaker 1: need to be employee cund trick, and so companies need

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Speaker 1: to work to give employees great experiences and that that's

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Speaker 1: going to translate into great business results. And so we're

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Speaker 1: kind of trying to reimagine every HR practice to you know,

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Speaker 1: fit a world where companies put people first. How tough

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Speaker 1: is it out? I mean, I don't know. I used

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Speaker 1: to manage a lot of people here a Bloomberg and

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Speaker 1: you know, it's a challenge, and I think in the

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Speaker 1: pandemic here maybe even more pronounced here because employees have

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Speaker 1: different needs, uh, they have different desires, they value things differently.

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Speaker 1: Now I want to work from home. They want to

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Speaker 1: work from home, the hybrid. They want to have special

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Speaker 1: meaning in their role. How is that evolved in life? Yeah, exactly, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: those are great points. I think all of those things

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Speaker 1: are challenging, right. You mentioned remote which is a very

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Speaker 1: hard thing to navigate. You mentioned the fact that employees

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Speaker 1: want so much from work in terms of meaning and purpose,

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Speaker 1: and then we've also just frankly been in a macroeconomic

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Speaker 1: environment for the last couple of years where employees have

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Speaker 1: had a sort of a record high amount of power

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Speaker 1: in the work relationship, and so as an employer, a

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Speaker 1: lot of people have been kind of scratching their heads

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Speaker 1: between all of this, saying, gosh, this is it's so

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Speaker 1: challenging to hire, but I don't have people in the office.

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Speaker 1: I can't build those trusting relationships. People want more from

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Speaker 1: us than ever, but it feels like they can go

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Speaker 1: get fifteen jobs if they walk out the building tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: So it has been a really challenging period and people

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Speaker 1: have had to rethink the way that they do management

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Speaker 1: to sort of stay on top of it. What do

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Speaker 1: you expect from uh new hires? I mean when I

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Speaker 1: was a kid, you would go work for a firm

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Speaker 1: and stay there forever. I think my family might be

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Speaker 1: secretly Japanese, but um, you know, I've been here for

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Speaker 1: twenty two near twenty three years. But the kids who

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Speaker 1: come in they don't expect to stay longer than two years.

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Speaker 1: They're just bouncing around back and forth. Um. Is that

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Speaker 1: difficult to deal with or is it acceptable? It is

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Speaker 1: difficult to deal with there's benefits to it. There's there's

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Speaker 1: things about the change that are positive, right, Like you

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Speaker 1: mentioned how I worked at Cleature, which is, you know,

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Speaker 1: an investment bank when I first got out of college.

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Speaker 1: I learned a lot there. But the hours and the

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Speaker 1: work we're you know, extraordinarily grueling, you know, over a

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Speaker 1: hundred hours a week. I don't think that was the

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Speaker 1: optimal either. But you know, I tweeted something recently and

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Speaker 1: basically saying that I don't think we're doing young Bowl

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Speaker 1: favors by promising anything other than hard work if you

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Speaker 1: want to accomplish big things. And so I do think

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Speaker 1: that the pendulum can swing too far, and that to

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Speaker 1: get to sort of the proficiency and the excellence in

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Speaker 1: any skill that's needed to really accomplish a lot, I

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Speaker 1: do think that requires a sustained effort over a long

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Speaker 1: period of time. And you know, when you're just starting

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Speaker 1: out in your career, that looks different than when you're

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Speaker 1: ten or twenty or thirty years into your career. And

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Speaker 1: so I think there's a balance. I think I think

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Speaker 1: finding the middle ground and finding sort of the essence

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Speaker 1: of what's required and then trying to help people design

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Speaker 1: good lives around that. But I think I think we

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Speaker 1: need a middle ground on a lot of that check.

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Speaker 1: You know, I maybe my care is a little bit

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Speaker 1: similar to years. You know, I spent most of my

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Speaker 1: career on Wall Street, and and I think about on

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Speaker 1: all the firms I've worked at, and unlike Matt, I've

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Speaker 1: bounced around to the highest paycheck, but no, no loyalty

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Speaker 1: whatsoever other than to my bank account. It sounds terrible

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Speaker 1: to say, that's kind of how my generation was. But

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Speaker 1: you never had a boss like this, No, I did not.

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Speaker 1: You're exactly right, um. But one of the things is

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Speaker 1: the office environment, the relationships that helps you foster you know,

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Speaker 1: working those long hours, traveling, doing all those things together

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Speaker 1: as a team. And when I think about back to

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Speaker 1: all the firms I worked at, it's the people, it's

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Speaker 1: not you know, and those are formed by being together.

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Speaker 1: How do you do that in this environment where many

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Speaker 1: of the people are working from home or a hybrid

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Speaker 1: at best. I think two things. One is, I think

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Speaker 1: there are things you can do to still build relationships remotely,

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Speaker 1: and so I think you can you can create some

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Speaker 1: of that. You can also get teams together in person

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Speaker 1: periodically for off sites and trips, and you can make

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Speaker 1: those memories. But on the other hand, what you're saying

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Speaker 1: is directionally true, and I think people running companies remotely

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Speaker 1: need to acknowledge that the strength of the relationships inside

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Speaker 1: the company are not going to be equivalent to what

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Speaker 1: you have if people work together forty hours a week

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Speaker 1: in the office. And that's just sort of like a

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Speaker 1: fact of human nature and reality. And so that doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean that it's impossible to in the good company that way,

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Speaker 1: but it means that you have to redesign the way

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Speaker 1: a company operates because you don't have this inherent trust

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Speaker 1: and relationship layer to nearly the same extent that you

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Speaker 1: do if everybody's in the office. So I think you

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Speaker 1: can do some things to work towards it, but fundamentally,

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Speaker 1: I think trying to pretend like you're going to have

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Speaker 1: the same relationships is just a bad idea. Just thirty

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Speaker 1: seconds here, Jack, But inflation is high, obviously, and people

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Speaker 1: want to get paid enough to keep up with it.

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Speaker 1: How hard is that? Well interestingly at least, so you know,

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Speaker 1: just knowing our own rule corner of the role. In tech,

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Speaker 1: we saw compensation bands rise unbelievably in the last eighteen

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Speaker 1: months far stripping outflation. And so despite the fact that

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Speaker 1: inflation is you know, up almost you know, double digits,

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Speaker 1: compensation across tech and most pay bions has gone up

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Speaker 1: by more than that. So I think for various reasons,

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Speaker 1: tech has enjoyed so much benefit from the pandemic that

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Speaker 1: it's worked out so far. But we'll see how that

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Speaker 1: plays over time. Alright, Jack, great stuff. I really appreciate

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Speaker 1: getting your perspective there. That was really interesting, Jack Altman,

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Speaker 1: CEO and co founder of Lattice. Let's talk supply chain,

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Speaker 1: one of our favorite topics here at Bloomberg Markets. Mario

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Speaker 1: Herrick joins us. He's chief information officer for XPO Logistics.

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Speaker 1: If you don't know them, they touched you probably most weeks,

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Speaker 1: most days. There are big logistics firms. Publicly traded company

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Speaker 1: six point nine billion market cap. Xp O is the

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Speaker 1: ticker um employees based in Greenwich, Connecticut. How about that Greenwich? Yeah? Right?

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Speaker 1: Is that how you pronounce it? All? Right? Mario talked

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Speaker 1: to us about this supply chain. You guys at XPO

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Speaker 1: are in all parts of it. I think trucking, I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, just logistics moving stuff around. Give us a

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Speaker 1: sense of kind of how we got into this logistics

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Speaker 1: supply chain nightmare, if if you will, and kind of

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Speaker 1: where are we in terms of getting yourselves out of it? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you got its first. Thanks, thanks so much for having

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Speaker 1: beyond guys. When we think about the overall supply chains

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Speaker 1: and moving goods, it's a combination of having, you know,

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Speaker 1: how many people you have moving the goods, how much

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Speaker 1: equipment you have to move the goods, and versus what

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Speaker 1: kind of demands you're seeing from customers now when in

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Speaker 1: a post pandemic world that was strengthened sending demand in

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Speaker 1: terms of consumers buying more and more products getting moved,

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Speaker 1: and in supply chains put hold with less people and

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Speaker 1: less equipment as well. So when you think about the

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Speaker 1: ship shortage, as an example of impacting oh EM is

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Speaker 1: being able to produce strugs and that combination of high

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Speaker 1: demand and lower supply of capacity obviously impacted supply chains

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Speaker 1: globally by the way um has shipping, has logistics been

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Speaker 1: a problem in terms of had problems in terms of

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Speaker 1: scarcity of vehicles? I mean has that impacted your your

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Speaker 1: business as well? Yeah? That that also trying to get

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Speaker 1: pacity perspective. The truck manufacturers, though we am we're challenge

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Speaker 1: in terms of them being able to produce a capacity,

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Speaker 1: which also impacted that where we are now a lot

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Speaker 1: of these things are starting to normalize. So what you're

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Speaker 1: seeing is that you obviously have more people going back

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Speaker 1: into the workforce. We are investing more capital in the

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Speaker 1: business where effectively we have a company's specific edge where

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Speaker 1: we also produce our own trailers because the other form

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Speaker 1: of equipment is trailers. And this year we're planning on

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Speaker 1: double link the production of trailers compared to last year

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Speaker 1: by producing more trailers so we can move more more goods.

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Speaker 1: But I'm sure I'm assuming that demand hasn't stabilized, right.

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Speaker 1: You're still seeing massive demand, so demand has been mixed

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Speaker 1: from customers overall. Some customers we're seeing stronger demands from

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Speaker 1: today in our less than truckload business, and that's the

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Speaker 1: business that that I run. We have seen for industrial

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Speaker 1: customers strengthened demand in some cases where are seeing more

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Speaker 1: products flow into their supply chain where they can actually

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Speaker 1: move more products for their customers, which leads to more shipping.

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Speaker 1: And you have some customers where they're seeing faster than

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Speaker 1: the and they you know, they're obviously shipping less. But

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Speaker 1: for us, we have a lot of sales momentum where

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Speaker 1: we are on boarding new customers, we are investing more

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Speaker 1: in our business. We are graduating more drivers, and we

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Speaker 1: are on boarding new customers so we can get get

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Speaker 1: more trade moved and the like our customers with our

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Speaker 1: service explain you say it's a business. You run the

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Speaker 1: lesson truckload um business. That's because you spun off your

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Speaker 1: truck brokerage business and you're focused fully on what is

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Speaker 1: less than truckload freighter. Yeah, let's let's sand truckload. I

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Speaker 1: think of it as being whenever shippers are moving things

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Speaker 1: that are larger than parcel, so larger than a small

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Speaker 1: box box, but where they don't have enough trade to

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Speaker 1: fill a full truck. And we have a terminal network

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Speaker 1: of two hundred and ninety four terminals, and we covered

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Speaker 1: coast to coast of all zip codes where we can

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Speaker 1: pick up one pallette of freight for the shipper from

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Speaker 1: one city, we can solidated with other shippers freight we

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Speaker 1: moved across the country, and then we do a local

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Speaker 1: deliverty for that for that pallet lesting truckload versus truckload

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Speaker 1: t L so LTL. See. I learned stuff back in

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Speaker 1: the day when I was covering the rails and trucks,

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Speaker 1: and it's like so complex if you think about it, right,

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Speaker 1: that's why you're filling an eighteen wheeler with stuff from

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Speaker 1: different maybe ten or twenty different companies. Yeah, yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: it's really it's the backbone of logistics in this country.

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Speaker 1: So you know, we had marriage today's job's day here

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Speaker 1: on Wall Street to here a Bloomberg, and we had

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Speaker 1: a really strong jobs number, a lot more jobs added

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Speaker 1: to the economy than expected. And that kind of brings

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Speaker 1: to mind one of the challenges I know in your business,

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Speaker 1: the trucking business, it's almost possible to keep truckers. Uh

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Speaker 1: there there's a high turnover. Talk to us about how

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Speaker 1: your business is right now, Yeah, you got it. So first,

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Speaker 1: our our drivers are one of the most important parts

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Speaker 1: of our workforce. There are folks who and I'm thankful

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Speaker 1: for every one of our drivers. And we have more

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Speaker 1: than thirteen thousand drivers who move freight for our customers

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Speaker 1: across across the network. And what we have done is

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Speaker 1: that we have a hundred and thirty locations where we

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Speaker 1: train our own drivers, where we paid their wages as

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Speaker 1: they're going through the training program, and then they can

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Speaker 1: join our ranks as the drive who move who move

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Speaker 1: freight for our customers. And this year we're planning on

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Speaker 1: doubling the number of drivers were graduating and to join

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Speaker 1: our ranks. What kind of training are we talking about,

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Speaker 1: because this is like, I don't know why I dreamt

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Speaker 1: about it since I was a kid, just it seems

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Speaker 1: like the perfect job for me, you know, chasing that

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Speaker 1: long white line. Yeah, listen, it is an amazing job.

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Speaker 1: I spend a lot of time in our terminals and

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Speaker 1: I get to meet a lot of our drivers. There's

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Speaker 1: some salt of the years people. They really keep our

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Speaker 1: economy and the whole country moving. But the training that

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Speaker 1: we do is effectively a where they earned the CDM license.

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Speaker 1: So effectively, it's a seven week training. So you can

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Speaker 1: imagine if you're a dog worker with us, or you're

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Speaker 1: somebody coming from outside the company would like to earn

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Speaker 1: a CDL license. We train you both in the classroom

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Speaker 1: and on the road training, but at the end of it,

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Speaker 1: you would only CDL a license and you can actually

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Speaker 1: drive one of those large semis and then move freight

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Speaker 1: for our customers. Just some of the calves also are

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Speaker 1: so awesome and you can have a whole set up

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Speaker 1: in there with a bed and a computer and a

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Speaker 1: TV and yep, it's but again it's a tough, tough

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Speaker 1: drib you're away from you to bring your dog along

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Speaker 1: with you exactly. But but I'll tell you, guys, for us,

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Speaker 1: because we're in less than truckload, our drivers sleep at

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Speaker 1: home every single Day's effectively, that's the that's a big

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Speaker 1: benefit for our drivers in terms of being able to

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Speaker 1: in terms of being able again to be at home.

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Speaker 1: Who do you hand it off to then? For the

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Speaker 1: long haul? So, because we have two hundred and ninety

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Speaker 1: four terminals, so when we move freight between our terminals,

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Speaker 1: each drive drives at most two hundred and fifty miles

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Speaker 1: one way, and then they hand off the favor either

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Speaker 1: to any terminal or they handed off to another driver

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Speaker 1: that can move the rest of the phrase on his

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Speaker 1: on his path to the customer. You have a preferred

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Speaker 1: supplier in terms of the actual tractor, I mean the

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Speaker 1: the big rig. Do you go with BOTHO Peter Bill

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Speaker 1: mac today today we used to two o E M

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Speaker 1: s and our and our fleet. One of them is

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Speaker 1: straight Liner is our primary o EM, and we have

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Speaker 1: a great relationship with them. They produced fantastic trucks. That's

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Speaker 1: good stuff. That's good stuff. We love talking about logistics.

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Speaker 1: In case she couldn't tell, Maria, thanks so much for

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Speaker 1: joining us. Mario Harrick, he's a Chief Investment officer XPO Logistics. Uh,

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Speaker 1: he's Commune CEO of the XPO, which will be their

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Speaker 1: standalone lt L trucking company. And again the XPO folks, Uh,

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Speaker 1: they touched pretty much every consumer very frequently, as they

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Speaker 1: are really the backbone of the global truck king logistics

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Speaker 1: of this country as more and more traffic goes to digital.

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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. Let's talk to somebody who does this

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Speaker 1: stuff we're living. Shannon Gabriel, Managing Director of Leadership Solutions

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Speaker 1: that t b M Consulting. Shannon, from your perspective from

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Speaker 1: working with your clients, your employers, how good is the

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Speaker 1: labor market out there? I don't think it's good at all. Actually,

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Speaker 1: I think they we're we're still seeing a struggle within

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Speaker 1: the middle market. The groups that we work with, the

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Speaker 1: companies that we're working with um A t VM, you

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Speaker 1: fall anywhere between three hundred million and seven hundred million,

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Speaker 1: and I can't think of one. Actually there is one.

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Speaker 1: We have one client that's a manufacturing company that has

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Speaker 1: gone through some right tizing. The rest of them are

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Speaker 1: still struggling to find labor and to keep it. Why

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Speaker 1: do you she said, right sizing, And that's it's I

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Speaker 1: don't know if that's acceptable, Shannon, I mean they fired

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Speaker 1: people or what so, Shannon, I mean, is that because

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Speaker 1: they're not offering enough money? Is that because people don't

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Speaker 1: want to work? Is that because I can't find Some

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Speaker 1: of it relates back to the PTSD that occurred from

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Speaker 1: the pandemic. So if you look at the airline industry

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Speaker 1: and the service industry hospitality, they went through massive layoffs

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Speaker 1: right away, forced retirements, furloughs, and as they started to

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Speaker 1: try to rebound and bring that labor back UH that

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Speaker 1: PTFC kicked in and they went to a safer market

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Speaker 1: where they knew they could be UH stabilized. And so

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Speaker 1: some of those industries have had a harder time to

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Speaker 1: return to those normal levels. One because of pay, A

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Speaker 1: lot of companies went through a quick increase in their

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Speaker 1: wages right out of the gate. Some of them are

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Speaker 1: still struggling to get to where it's a competitive market.

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Speaker 1: And I don't mean a wage war where we're paying

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Speaker 1: over but just to be competitive in the geographic territory

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Speaker 1: that they're in. In terms of the money, I mean,

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Speaker 1: we do continue to see raises, so I guess our

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Speaker 1: employers offering more. Of the companies that you cover, they

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Speaker 1: having to continue offer more to get staffed. They have,

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Speaker 1: especially when you're talking within the leadership ranks. Uh, those

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Speaker 1: have seen a significant improvement and those employees and candidates

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Speaker 1: own the market, which you've also they don't talk about

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Speaker 1: it within the press, but we do hear a lot

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Speaker 1: right now are counter offers so as especially within the

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Speaker 1: leadership ranks, says those key stakeholders are trying to make

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Speaker 1: a move. Companies are throwing an enormous amount of money

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Speaker 1: at them to keep them on staff. Shannon, I guess

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Speaker 1: in recent weeks we've seen some large and midsize and

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Speaker 1: small tech companies said the slow hiring, you know, maybe

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Speaker 1: let some workers go. What do you read into that.

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Speaker 1: We've seen that across the decades, you know, they typically

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Speaker 1: can expand and contract their workforce a lot easier than

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Speaker 1: the middle market can. And and so when we see

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Speaker 1: those talks of CREE, I think that they may slow

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Speaker 1: down a bit, they may go through minor layoffs on

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Speaker 1: a frequent basis, But I don't think that it's indicative

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Speaker 1: of a recession, and I don't know that it's necessarily

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Speaker 1: indicative of their financial performance. Well, it's just you know,

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Speaker 1: headlines from big some some how controversial companies like coin

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Speaker 1: Base or robin Hood that we hear about. In terms

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Speaker 1: of the markets that you serve. Are there certain industries

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Speaker 1: that have an easier time? Are there certain industries that

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Speaker 1: just can't get staffed? Manufacturing distribution I think certainly have

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Speaker 1: still been struggling to come together and reach the normal levels. Distributions. Certainly.

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Speaker 1: You know, if you walk into any warehouse and you

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Speaker 1: talk to uh the warehouse managers supervisor, they'll tell you

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Speaker 1: that they not only can they not get people to

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Speaker 1: come in and stand ten hours a day because they

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Speaker 1: don't want to, but they also once they're there, will

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Speaker 1: have a quick they'll have the quick quits and they'll return,

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Speaker 1: um they return the next day, but not the day

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Speaker 1: after that. And so those industries I think are certainly

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Speaker 1: struggling hospitality service. If you've been in the restaurants um

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Speaker 1: in the last you know, month to three six months,

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Speaker 1: you'll see that you have half the restaurant open, but

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Speaker 1: you're gonna have an hour and a half wait because

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Speaker 1: they can't staff accordingly. Yeah, it's interesting during the pandemic, uh, Shannon,

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Speaker 1: women disproportionately bore the brunt. It seems like of some

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Speaker 1: of the layoffs there. And Greg Jared from Bloomberg News

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Speaker 1: just forward me a Bloomberg News story about how women

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Speaker 1: drove the job gains as the US labor market surges

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Speaker 1: back in July. So maybe some women getting back into

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Speaker 1: the marketplaces that what you're seeing as well. Absolutely, And

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Speaker 1: I think the reason behind that too is because women

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Speaker 1: predominantly were the ones that stayed home when their homeschooling

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Speaker 1: their kids, and they've got to make sacrifices with daycare

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Speaker 1: on what choices are going to make because of the pandemic.

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Speaker 1: So now that that has stabilized and normalized itself, they're

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Speaker 1: able to return back and a quick fashion and get

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Speaker 1: back into their career. All right, Shannon, thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for joining us. We we we appreciate that Shannon Gabriel,

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Speaker 1: Managing director of Leadership Solutions that t b M Consulting.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can

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Speaker 1: subscribe and listen to interviews with Apple Podcasts or whatever

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Speaker 1: podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter

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Speaker 1: at Matt Miller three. On Fall Sweeney, I'm on Twitter

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Speaker 1: at pt Sweeney Before the podcast. You can always catch

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Speaker 1: us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio