1 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:10,400 Speaker 1: Amy Robock and TJ. Holmes present Killer Thriller with your 2 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: host Alisa Donovan. 3 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:18,640 Speaker 2: Hey, everyone, Elisa Donovan here and this is Killer Thriller. 4 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:22,920 Speaker 2: In nineteen eighty nine, five teenage boys from Harlem were 5 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 2: accused of one of the most infamous crimes in New 6 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 2: York City history, the brutal assault and rape of a 7 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 2: jogger in Central Park. 8 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:33,520 Speaker 1: The case exploded across the media. 9 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 2: The boys became known around the world as the Central 10 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:41,480 Speaker 2: Park Five, but the five teenagers, Kevin Richardson, Antoon McRae, 11 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 2: Yusef Salam Raymond Santana and Corey Wise, always maintained they 12 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 2: were innocent. Years later, another man confessed to the crime, 13 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 2: DNA matched him, and the convictions were vacated. 14 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: The Netflix limited. 15 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 2: Series When They See Us, created and directed by Avad Verney, 16 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 2: re visits the case from the boys perspective and follows 17 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 2: the emotional, psychological, and devastating toll the wrongful convictions took 18 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 2: on them and their families over decades. 19 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: Today, I am ecstatic to. 20 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 2: Say that we are joined by Jarell Jerome, who played 21 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 2: Corey Wise in the series. The only member of the 22 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 2: five tried as an adult and sent into the adult 23 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 2: prison system. Darrell's gut wrenching performance earned him the Emmy 24 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 2: Award for Outstanding Lead Actor in a Limited Series or Movie. Jirelle, 25 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 2: I'm going to try to maintain my utter excitement at 26 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 2: speaking to you and meaning you, because so before we 27 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:44,680 Speaker 2: even dive into this, I just have to say a 28 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 2: few things first. I think that this film should be 29 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 2: required viewing for every American And I am absolutely blown 30 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 2: away by you and your performance. 31 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: There are no words. 32 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 2: It's so powerful, it's heartbringing, it's excruciating to watch. You're 33 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 2: just like otherworldly in this and I remember watching this 34 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 2: the first time and it's like I was speechless. 35 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 1: So bravo. 36 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 3: Wow, thank you. That's a good way to start my 37 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:17,360 Speaker 3: day right there. 38 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:19,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm like, I'm here for you. 39 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 2: I'll be the ahead of your you know, one of 40 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 2: those things your you know, your popularity group, you know 41 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 2: what I mean. 42 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, But thank you. 43 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 3: Thank you for having me, you know, not the easiest 44 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 3: conversation to have, but so important. And I think you're right. 45 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 3: Required viewing for this is absolutely correct. It's one of 46 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 3: those stories that will never sort of get old, you know, 47 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 3: comes and it comes and comes again. 48 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 2: So yeah, yep, I you know, I, as I said, 49 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 2: I just watched it again and I just it's like 50 00:02:56,360 --> 00:03:01,919 Speaker 2: it is. You know, it's one of the most perfectly 51 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 2: made pieces of art, I think and entertainment that I've 52 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 2: ever seen. And we'll we'll get into all of that, 53 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 2: but first I want to acknowledge that clearly I wasn't 54 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 2: alone in my awe of you and this series, because 55 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 2: you won the Emmy that year for your performance and 56 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 2: when you were just twenty one, and I want to know, 57 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 2: how did it feel beating out these like Hugh Grant, 58 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 2: Jared Harris, Sam Rockwell, ma Hershela al Li Benicio. 59 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: I mean, these are like heavyweights. How did that feel? 60 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 3: Some of my favorite actors? Actually trippy. It's funny because 61 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 3: it feels so long ago. You know, it was twenty fifteen, 62 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 3: and you know that was before the whole world sort 63 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 3: of turned into what it took, so feel was almost 64 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 3: like a fever dream at this point. Yeah, to this day, 65 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 3: it's the biggest accomplishment that I feel like I've you know, done, 66 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 3: So it lives in this beautiful part of my heart 67 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 3: right and I'm like, yeah, I did that, I did that, 68 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 3: and so but it's I put it in a box 69 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 3: a while ago because I'm ready for what's next and 70 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 3: sort of continue to like plant my feet in the industry. 71 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 3: And it's a hard thing to do. So yeah, I 72 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:21,920 Speaker 3: got spoiled. So it's like, here's the edite, but yeah, 73 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 3: it doesn't end there, so. 74 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:27,840 Speaker 2: Right, right, So before this came along, how much did 75 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 2: you actually know about the Central Park five. 76 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:32,160 Speaker 1: I know you grew up in New York. 77 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 3: Not much. I grew up in New York. So it 78 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,160 Speaker 3: was sort of like a cautious tale that we'd hear, 79 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 3: be careful if the police abide by the rules and 80 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 3: all of that. But the actual details of what those 81 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:48,599 Speaker 3: men went through and what Corey Why specifically went through, 82 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 3: I didn't know until I really dove deep into the project. 83 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 3: I got to meet them and spend time with all 84 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 3: of them. It was then when I realized that this 85 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:00,919 Speaker 3: is so much bigger than me, and this this is 86 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:03,719 Speaker 3: a story about all of us, not just Corey. 87 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. I feel like the first episode really. 88 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 2: Reveals and highlights that there are conversations that black and 89 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 2: brown families and parents of black and brown children have 90 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 2: to have that white families just simply never have. 91 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: To think about, and you know that sort of that that. 92 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 2: In and of itself is so vital I think for 93 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 2: people to really understand. 94 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: So did you did that really hit home for you 95 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: in that way? 96 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, absolutely. I mean growing up being a good 97 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 3: kid didn't matter much when you went out into the street. 98 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,280 Speaker 3: You know, I grew up with strict parents, So I 99 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 3: grew up a really good kid and went to church 100 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 3: and everything, but it didn't mean much when you were 101 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 3: crossing the street and a police officer was looking at you, 102 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:56,840 Speaker 3: walk out of a store, and you may look like 103 00:05:56,960 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 3: somebody else, and it's a tail as old as time. 104 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 3: I'm at this point and it's sad to think that 105 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:06,239 Speaker 3: this came out in twenty nineteen and we can still 106 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:09,039 Speaker 3: mirror it today in twenty twenty six, and how similar 107 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:13,119 Speaker 3: it is. But yeah, it's one of those things where 108 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 3: black and brown boys and girls today still growing up 109 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 3: are dealing with that circumstance. It's the beauty of when 110 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:21,840 Speaker 3: they see It's the beauty of the art showing us 111 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:23,599 Speaker 3: and putting the mirror up to our face so we 112 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:24,479 Speaker 3: can see what's going on. 113 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 1: Yep, Yep. 114 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 2: I've several people that I've spoken to on this podcast 115 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 2: about that idea that oftentimes we can digest things in 116 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 2: a different way through story as opposed to just you know, 117 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 2: reading it in the paper. There's something I mean, both 118 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:47,720 Speaker 2: are very important, but that you know, storytelling could sometimes 119 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:51,599 Speaker 2: open up people's hearts in a different way to really 120 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 2: feeling what you know, having empathy in some way. 121 00:06:56,600 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 3: Absolutely artist medicine, it really is, and create it like this, 122 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 3: It's truly medicine. Yeah, yep. 123 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 2: So you've spoken about meeting and getting to know Corey Wise, 124 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 2: who I just like this man's heart. I've never met 125 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 2: this man, but when I just see his face in 126 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 2: a photo when he's talking, he's not talking, like, I 127 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 2: just feel this man's spirit and his heart. It's like unbelievable. 128 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 2: So what struck you most about him when you first met. 129 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 3: Him Exactly what you just said. I mean, you can 130 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,679 Speaker 3: see a photo of him and you feel his energy, 131 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 3: you can see it through his eyes, his smile. You 132 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 3: also just know he's overcome so much. Just from one 133 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 3: look at his face, you can see the fight that 134 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 3: he has, that he is the champion of that fight. 135 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 3: And for me, meeting him just reminded me that those 136 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 3: little things that I complain about or those little things 137 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 3: I feel worried about just don't matter at all. People 138 00:07:57,720 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 3: have gone through so much worse and come out the 139 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 3: other side so much better. And seeing Corey, I mean, 140 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 3: I watched Corey go up to a police officer and 141 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 3: hug him and say, what's up, man, how you doing? 142 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 3: You would think who go through that, spend the rest 143 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 3: of his life having a vengeance against cops, And this 144 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 3: man actually loves them and loves anybody he meets because 145 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 3: he appreciates life in a way that we will never 146 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 3: ever understand. And as an actor, I had to sort 147 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 3: of realize that, like, oh, I'm late, I'm embodying you, 148 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 3: but I could never have gone through what you went 149 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 3: through and stand here today smiling and making everybody around 150 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 3: you feel loved and comfortable. You know, he feel like 151 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 3: you may want to walk on eggshells around somebody who's 152 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 3: been through an experience like that, but with him you 153 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 3: forget any of that happened. And he's just the brightest 154 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 3: so and very funny, very funny. 155 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, one of that I loved. 156 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 2: I mean, I don't want to skip to the end 157 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 2: of the series, but just for a second, it's so 158 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 2: powerful that Ava chose to have each of those men 159 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 2: be look directly into the camera and you see and 160 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:11,319 Speaker 2: feel that it's like one of the best endings to something. 161 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 3: I'm gonna lie. I haven't seen it in so long 162 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 3: because it hurts to watch, but you mentioned just yeah, 163 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 3: put it right back into my chest. Yeah. That those 164 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 3: frames side by side, seeing them with the music as 165 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 3: well in the school, so emotional and it's just so deserved. 166 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 3: I think it was a very clever addition. Instead of it, 167 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 3: you know, we finish a biopic and you just see 168 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 3: a set of words that say, you know, they went 169 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 3: on to do this or this happened. But instead of 170 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 3: the words, you really look at their face and their 171 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 3: eyes and the project's called when they see it, So 172 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 3: we're seeing them after, you know, learning about them. 173 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 2: Oh, I just get chills, like I you know, I 174 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 2: feel like this industry is, you know, it at its best. 175 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 2: It's quite no and really important, and this is just 176 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 2: one of those projects. So let's talk a little bit 177 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 2: about the actual case that he wasn't. This is just 178 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 2: so impossible to metabolize that he wasn't even originally one 179 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 2: of the boys that the police were after he went 180 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 2: to the station with his friend. 181 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 1: With Yusef. I mean that alone is just haunting. 182 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 3: It's probably the most heartbreaking part of the story. Yeah, 183 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 3: not only was he truly innocent and just having a 184 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 3: night out with friends, he also wasn't even the original 185 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 3: person chosen to go into the precinct. The police came 186 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 3: in with an agenda and they grabbed a ton of names, 187 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 3: and Corey wasn't on that list. His for you, it 188 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 3: was and he was just being a homie. He was 189 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 3: just being It's like when you see a friend in 190 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 3: a situation and you swear we can get out of 191 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 3: this in an hour. We can do this together, and 192 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 3: we'll be hand in hand out of here, going back 193 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 3: to the house and laughing about this in about an hour. 194 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 3: I won't let you down. And that mentality caused him 195 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 3: to be in prison for the next twelve years of 196 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 3: his life, and to keep speaking on his character, he 197 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 3: probably does not regret that decision still, you know, I 198 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 3: think in his world and in his head, that sense 199 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 3: of loyalty had takes over any other you know, abuse 200 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 3: or any other jail time anything, you know. I think 201 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 3: being a loyal friend was most important to him. But 202 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 3: it is so heartbreaking because it's not only just an 203 00:11:55,400 --> 00:12:01,679 Speaker 3: innocent kid, it's also a good friend who's just and 204 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 3: he went in and never came back out, and that's 205 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:09,559 Speaker 3: what's heartbreaking. He also was older than all of them, 206 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 3: so right. 207 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:13,680 Speaker 2: So he's the only one that was put into Rikers. 208 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 2: I think anybody who even people who know nothing about anything, 209 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:19,079 Speaker 2: understand what Rikers is. 210 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 3: You don't have to ye know about Rikers to know 211 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 3: about Rikers. Yes, sixteen years old. He entered those prison 212 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:31,439 Speaker 3: walls at sixteen, and he's sharing a prison with forty 213 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 3: five year olds, thirty year olds, twenty year olds due 214 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 3: to a working out for ten plus years, and are 215 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 3: violent and he didn't get in the gym a day 216 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 3: in his life before he stepped into prison, and so smaller. 217 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:50,679 Speaker 3: I think he was about five six, frail and young. 218 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:55,599 Speaker 2: And that's what's it's so alarming watching those the interrogation 219 00:12:55,760 --> 00:13:00,040 Speaker 2: scenes in the film, because you just see. 220 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 1: How how young and small. 221 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 2: These boys were, and it's like it's so jarring because 222 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 2: it's it just reveals such a diabolical brutality that I 223 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 2: can't what was it like shooting those scenes? 224 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 3: Uh, to make a point, to follow that point that 225 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:23,840 Speaker 3: you just said watching young children go through this was 226 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 3: so heartbreaking, and then complimenting it and watching their mothers 227 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 3: go through what they were doing, that that's the story 228 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 3: behind every young child's pain is their mother's pain as well. 229 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 3: And so just seeing what those women were going through 230 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 3: that day, confused, not knowing why their sons were being 231 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:45,439 Speaker 3: held for twenty four hours, it felt illegal, it felt wrong. 232 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:49,679 Speaker 3: No matter what they did, they were already they lost 233 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 3: by the time they got there, And so that that 234 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 3: I just wanted to make that a point and just 235 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 3: just a shout out to the to the mothers that 236 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 3: go through this, because they're part of the story just 237 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 3: as much. Oh yes, but yes, shooting the scenes, you know, 238 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 3: I'll be very honest with you, it's a weird thing 239 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:13,200 Speaker 3: as an actor, right because shooting the scenes the answer 240 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 3: is incredibly hard and tense, and it pull that parts 241 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 3: of my emotions that I've never experienced. And the other 242 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 3: happening as an actor is like that was so fun. 243 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 3: That was so that was enjoyable to be able to 244 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 3: act as much. 245 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, to do something so meaningful, it's like we all 246 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 2: want that, you know, we don't. That's not always the case. 247 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 2: And I truly understand that. And it's like because then 248 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 2: it feels like I'm you know, it's a calling to 249 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 2: do this kind of work. 250 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: It is as actors, and so when you. 251 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 2: Get to actually feel like this is meaningful, this is 252 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 2: what I'm doing the right thing. 253 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 3: Absolutely I've been I've been very blessed in my career 254 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 3: to have a few projects that feel that way. But 255 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 3: when they see really really really tops it with the 256 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 3: impact that I feel like it had. And so not 257 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 3: only did it impact me as an actor. While I'm 258 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 3: on set, I'm doing the hardest work I've ever done, 259 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 3: so it's only sharpening what I can do, but as 260 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 3: a person too, And like you know, I really cried 261 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 3: a lot. I spent a lot of nights. I spent 262 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 3: a lot of mornings waking up in really bad moods 263 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 3: because of constantly constantly thinking about Corey and what he 264 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 3: went through. And like I said, I met him and 265 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 3: spent a lot of time with him. I mean I 266 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 3: kicked it with him in Harlem Brad Pizza. We bought 267 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 3: sneakers to get and so it started becoming personal for me. 268 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 3: It started turning into oh boy, this is not a 269 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 3: Netflix show anymore, where I'm just gonna get to do 270 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 3: a show. I have a responsibility on me to portray 271 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 3: this real life human who's become a friend to me 272 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 3: now and who looks at me with like these bright eyes, 273 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 3: like so prob. And you know, it breaks my heart 274 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 3: because there were times where I would think, you know, 275 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 3: if the roads were reversed, I'm the one who's you know, 276 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 3: who was in prison and he's the actor playing me. 277 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 3: That tripped me out a lot because we look so 278 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 3: much alike. We're from the same city, we are very 279 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 3: much cut from the same cloth, very close to our 280 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 3: mothers and and things like that. So yeah, it would, 281 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 3: it would, It would bug me out a little bit. 282 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 3: But it was very incredible. She had a therapist on 283 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 3: set for any of those hard for everybody in the 284 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 3: cast and the crew. The days got so heavy, the 285 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 3: nights got so long, and we're in we're in real prisons. 286 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 3: Some one of the prisons we were in were actually active. 287 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 3: We were shooting where inmates were in another section of 288 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 3: the prison, you know, requests bathroom permission and things like this, 289 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 3: and feeling that while being there was so intense. I mean, 290 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 3: some people camera guys like I just want to course 291 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 3: something and they're in this you know, intense environment, and 292 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:13,119 Speaker 3: so yeah, therapist was on set, and Able made sure 293 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:16,119 Speaker 3: that I had that sort of mental guidance and mental 294 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 3: health take you off the rails too much, because it 295 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 3: really got after a few weeks where it's like, wow, 296 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 3: is there any joy anywhere? God, the joy came when 297 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 3: the show came out. I'll tell you that. I'll tell 298 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:30,160 Speaker 3: you that. 299 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 1: See, yeah, tell me did that feel? 300 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 3: So? 301 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: Did you even know? Did you guys know when you're 302 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 1: making it? 303 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,439 Speaker 2: I mean, it's an impossible question because like sort of 304 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 2: you're so in it. 305 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: It's just you don't know what's going to happen. 306 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 3: Pray always and you put in the work to the 307 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 3: point where you tell yourself it's got to because you're 308 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 3: working so hard on it, but you never know. I 309 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 3: knew that the story was going to hurt. I knew 310 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:56,119 Speaker 3: it was going to be hard to watch, but I 311 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 3: didn't think it was going to sort of cause this 312 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 3: riffing conversation and this it actually allowed the black community 313 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 3: to feel uplifted surprisingly enough. 314 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I read that. 315 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,679 Speaker 2: That's what Ava was one of her intentions that she 316 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 2: wanted not all these men to feel truly exonerated, but 317 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 2: to uplift people. 318 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:25,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, that last shot of the five boys with their 319 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 3: hands up on a podium, and you know, it ends 320 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:30,919 Speaker 3: with this sort of triumphant and it's sad because they 321 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,199 Speaker 3: have their hands up. And what's what's sad about it 322 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:35,159 Speaker 3: is they still went through what they went through. You know, 323 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 3: you can't take back from them. It's not like because 324 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 3: they defeated the villain their hands because they overcame the villain. 325 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:48,880 Speaker 3: They they're still here today. And so yeah, that triumphant 326 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:52,639 Speaker 3: narrative was important for Ava because that's what happened when 327 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 3: it came out were I was, I was pretty shocked. 328 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:56,919 Speaker 3: That was me. I think Ava was shocked too, but 329 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 3: shocked in the best ways. And watching Honestly, he got 330 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 3: famous watching Corey. Yeah he deserves, you know, twelve years incarcerated. 331 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:12,399 Speaker 3: In thirty years after the event, he gets five hundred 332 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:14,879 Speaker 3: thousand followers and people like, oh, we love you so 333 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 3: much and really stopping him in the street. He's a 334 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 3: celebrity in his neighborhood. And amazing to see now. 335 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 2: I mean it's like impossible to even say how meaningful 336 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 2: that is. 337 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 1: Like, I just. 338 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:49,399 Speaker 2: So one thing that people still debate. I am not 339 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:54,160 Speaker 2: one of those people, but some people still debate how 340 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 2: someone could falsely confess to something this serious. So, after 341 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 2: researching this, did that make it easier for you to 342 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 2: understand or did you already understand it before? 343 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, I did a lot of research on it to 344 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 3: help me understand what I think I understand. You know, 345 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:14,400 Speaker 3: it's such a complex matter how police work and how 346 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 3: they do whatever they do, because we can make assumptions 347 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 3: and there's a ton of books of detectives who've gone 348 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:23,119 Speaker 3: off the job and you know, shared some secrets and 349 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 3: right right, right, But apparently the situation and it's a 350 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 3: muddy for me now because there's a couple of years ago, 351 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:33,159 Speaker 3: but there was a specific tactic that was legal and 352 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 3: allowed in the New York Police Department that you could 353 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:41,680 Speaker 3: course a child without their parent around to speak it. 354 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:44,679 Speaker 3: It wasn't as much as I don't think it was 355 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:50,360 Speaker 3: as blatants like oh lie to us, But you can 356 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 3: keep a child who's sixteen years old for twenty four 357 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 3: hours without having them drink water or use the bathroom. 358 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,120 Speaker 3: And that's a tactic. The goal is to get them 359 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,919 Speaker 3: wearing down, to get their mental running, to get their 360 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,639 Speaker 3: heartbeat up and to get them feeling like they have 361 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 3: to tell the truth. And so that sort of feeling 362 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 3: was put onto these boys. At the same time, a 363 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 3: narrative would share to these boys, and they know that 364 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:17,919 Speaker 3: if you share the narrative the way we tell you 365 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 3: to share it, you're going to get out of here 366 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 3: because you're gonna we're asking you to rat on other people. 367 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 3: We're asking you that these guys in trouble. Meanwhile, they're 368 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 3: telling the other guys to get that guy in trouble. 369 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:34,120 Speaker 3: And so they're all fingers and they're all going back 370 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,119 Speaker 3: and forth saying I did it, we did it, you 371 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,959 Speaker 3: did it. If you really really look at all the 372 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:40,919 Speaker 3: information and the evidence that they said, it looks like 373 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,120 Speaker 3: nobody did it. It doesn't make anything. There's no order 374 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 3: to the events, there's no patterns. But all you need 375 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 3: is same court to get arrested. Is I did it right? 376 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,359 Speaker 2: And then it's impossible to take it back right or 377 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 2: it's so hard close. 378 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,440 Speaker 3: Case, we don't need to go further. He said it, 379 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 3: they said it close, And for the NYPD, that's a 380 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 3: big win. It was eighty nine, nineteen eighty nine. It 381 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:09,199 Speaker 3: was it was loud, It was messy, and the New 382 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 3: York Police Department didn't like it, so that cracked down 383 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:18,120 Speaker 3: sort of, you know, and not to mention, Donald Trump 384 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 3: put out an ad. 385 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 2: So let's yeah, let's talk about that for a second. 386 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 2: Because I so, I grew up on Long Island and 387 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 2: I was moving into Manhattan in June of nineteen eighty nine, 388 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 2: so here I graduated. 389 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: So this is all very was very real to me 390 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:36,880 Speaker 1: at the time. 391 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:43,679 Speaker 2: And I so specifically remember the narrative that was being 392 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:47,719 Speaker 2: pushed there was first of all, it's unequivocal that these 393 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,679 Speaker 2: boys were guilty and they were putting, and I distinc 394 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:54,959 Speaker 2: I specifically remember Corey Wise and I remember Raymond Santana. 395 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,399 Speaker 2: I remember that their two faces because for whatever reason, 396 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:02,160 Speaker 2: I think they showed them more on TV or something. 397 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,680 Speaker 3: Absolutely right. They showed Corey, I believe because he was 398 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 3: the oldest, and probably Raymond because he was Spanish and 399 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:12,400 Speaker 3: so they wanted to include the Spanish community in the fight, 400 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 3: so that would make sense. 401 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 2: And I remember as a teenager going, something doesn't match here, 402 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,159 Speaker 2: Like I see what the words are saying, and I 403 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 2: see what the journalists are are speaking, but I see 404 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,679 Speaker 2: their faces and I don't get it, like, this doesn't 405 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 2: make any sense to me. And then I remember those 406 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 2: full in four of the New York papers, Donald Trump 407 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 2: took out a full page ad calling for the death 408 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 2: penalty for these boys. 409 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 3: Which I didn't even know what the thing. I didn't 410 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:47,199 Speaker 3: even know you can kind of do that. It's like, here, 411 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:49,639 Speaker 3: send them to death. Put it on the newspaper, like 412 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 3: uh yeah, yeah. It was the worst possible situation for 413 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,440 Speaker 3: these boys because not only did they pretty much confess 414 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 3: to something they didn't do, the narrative around them really 415 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,720 Speaker 3: made them look terrible and then into something they didn't 416 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 3: do didn't help as well. These papers were calling them 417 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 3: animals and packs of animals they stay. Actually, if you 418 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 3: ever heard of the term. 419 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 1: Wild and like wilding, yes. 420 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 3: Exactly, that was actually coined then for these boys. 421 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:22,919 Speaker 1: It's so I mean the media. 422 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 2: So, first of all, at that point in New York, 423 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 2: there was a lot of crime. I mean, one can 424 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 2: argue these things like that, there was a lot going 425 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,879 Speaker 2: on in this city that people kind of there was 426 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,199 Speaker 2: a panic and they wanted things to be better. 427 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's exactly what it was. It was a clean 428 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 3: up the streets mentality, this is getting bad and getting 429 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 3: out of hand mentality, if I'm not mistaken. That same year, 430 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:49,359 Speaker 3: in the same park, there were plus thirty crimes like 431 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 3: rape crimes throughout the year, and so not only was 432 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,920 Speaker 3: crime and issue, but specifically rape crime was becoming. 433 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:01,879 Speaker 2: Yes, well, then Mattias Reyes, who ultimately confessed to the 434 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:06,160 Speaker 2: rape and beating of this woman, had raped three other 435 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:10,680 Speaker 2: women after that in the same way. 436 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:16,920 Speaker 3: Including his girlfriend, including his own partner. Yeah, right, that's 437 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,640 Speaker 3: the tragedy of the story too. And the sad irony 438 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 3: of the story is that these five black boys were 439 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 3: put in prison because another black boy, you know, and 440 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:34,400 Speaker 3: breaks my heart to pieces. But the conversation just stops there. 441 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 3: It goes beyond. It's like, it's not about skin, it's 442 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 3: not about being innocent or being violent. It's just about 443 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 3: being black, like being black in America, right, because the 444 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 3: person who did it absolutely deserves to be in prison, 445 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:03,720 Speaker 3: yet he got to skate by somehow, right, while these 446 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 3: boys really it's it's it's it's. 447 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: A lot for my brain right now, to be clear. 448 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 2: So for people that aren't aware, there was zero DNA 449 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,439 Speaker 2: of the five boys at the crime scene or on 450 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 2: this woman in any way, and Mattias Rays DNA was 451 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 2: everywhere everywhere. 452 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:30,879 Speaker 3: The story of how Matthias Rays came about too is 453 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 3: pretty pretty Yeah. Let's yes, actually met Corey Wise in 454 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 3: jail while trying to find God. He felt for the 455 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 3: first time in his life, regret for the sins and 456 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 3: he actually met Corey and told Corey I got you. 457 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 1: So that's real. They cover that in the series, really really. 458 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,160 Speaker 3: Real, including the fistfight that they got into. 459 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 1: It is. 460 00:26:54,520 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, this is the craziest thing. Corey Eyes doesn't have 461 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,680 Speaker 3: any scars on his face except for one under his eye, 462 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:06,640 Speaker 3: and that was from the Mattia's Rays punch. 463 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,920 Speaker 1: You're kidding of all that he went through and that's 464 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:10,880 Speaker 1: the only one. 465 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 3: There's of abuse. In years of being punished in prison, 466 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,400 Speaker 3: he only lives with one scar and it's the one 467 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 3: from the man who actually was the reason he was 468 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 3: in there in the first place. It blew me in 469 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 3: his brain when we found out. It's like, what, yeah, 470 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 3: right under his eye. And funny enough, I have a 471 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,200 Speaker 3: scar as well somewhere under my eye from a punch 472 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 3: when I was a kid too, So wow, it's it 473 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 3: just adds to the triumph of his story. You know 474 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 3: that what we showed with Mattias. Obviously, some things skimmed 475 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 3: out and some things not, but yeah, it was very 476 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,359 Speaker 3: real that they met in prison and Matthias decided to 477 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,679 Speaker 3: confess to those murders, and I believe it was for 478 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:57,200 Speaker 3: the sake of getting Corey out of there. 479 00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 1: Mm hmmmm. 480 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,399 Speaker 2: And then they still well, you know, there's still which 481 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 2: I don't want to give it too much airtime, but 482 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:09,119 Speaker 2: we have to. I think that the the DA, I 483 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,200 Speaker 2: think that New York City DA and the police department 484 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,359 Speaker 2: still claim the boys are guilty and Mattias was the 485 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,640 Speaker 2: sixth the guy, which is you know, if people watch 486 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 2: the documentary, the Sarah and ken Burn's documentary, you can 487 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 2: see how that is just, you know, systematically ridiculous. 488 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 3: Some people were just always going to be as hardhit 489 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:36,400 Speaker 3: as so yeah, listen, I can't imagine why they want 490 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 3: to backtrack on putting those boys in there, because they 491 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 3: know they did wrong, and when you do wrong, you 492 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 3: hate to admit you did wrong. But that's the point 493 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 3: of the show, the world to decide who's wrong and 494 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 3: who's right. And I think the overall constances, those boys 495 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 3: deserved much better than what they got, you know, there's 496 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 3: a lot of rhetoric online about the show. Oh so propaganda. 497 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 3: Oh it's oh it's britty again. Oh it's this, Oh 498 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 3: it's that. But those I've just truly believed those are 499 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 3: the people who are too afraid to open their eyes 500 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 3: and just stay and that sort of ignorance that they 501 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:14,760 Speaker 3: live in. 502 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 2: I mean, accountability is a pretty like systematic issue in 503 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 2: this country and in humanity maybe, but I you. 504 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: Know, that's unfortunate. 505 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 2: That's all for part one of our conversation with Jerrell Jerome. 506 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 2: Next time on Killer Thriller, we go even deeper into 507 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 2: the massive reaction to the series and what Jarrelle says 508 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 2: still stays with him years later.