WEBVTT - Twilight with Diannely Antigua

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<v Speaker 1>On the Bechdel Cast.

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<v Speaker 2>The questions asked if movies have women and them, are

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<v Speaker 2>all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they

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<v Speaker 2>have individualism? It's the patriarchy, Zephyn Beast. Start changing it

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<v Speaker 2>with the Bechdel Cast. Hello Bechdel Cast listeners, who Jamie

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<v Speaker 2>and Caitlin?

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<v Speaker 1>Here a little plug at the top.

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<v Speaker 2>It's all coming together. It's all happening. I am going

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<v Speaker 2>to be going on a book tour for the paperback

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<v Speaker 2>release of my book Raw Dog, The Naked Truth about

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<v Speaker 2>Hot Dogs. Ever heard of it? It is coming out

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<v Speaker 2>in soft cover this may. If you're hearing this, it

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<v Speaker 2>is out right now. If you are the kind of

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<v Speaker 2>person that doesn't want to spend twenty eight dollars out

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<v Speaker 2>of book, fair enough, we have a more affordable option.

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<v Speaker 2>And if you haven't purchased the book and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe you're able to now, you know, it's also a

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<v Speaker 2>great gift. I've sound so desperate. The thing is, it's

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<v Speaker 2>a soft cover book, and people love us and.

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<v Speaker 1>I love a flaccid book.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a floppy little book. And if you do

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<v Speaker 2>have the hardcover and you're a completionist, there is also

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<v Speaker 2>a brand new ForWord that I wrote, and also the

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<v Speaker 2>acknowledgments have been adjusted to acknowledge that my agents were Zionists,

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<v Speaker 2>so I don't really thank them anymore. So there's a

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<v Speaker 2>thrilling edition there as well. But there is new stuff

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<v Speaker 2>in the book and it costs less, and we love that.

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<v Speaker 2>I will be going on tour throughout the country to

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<v Speaker 2>promote the new book, and if you're a Bechdel head

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<v Speaker 2>and you're in the area, this is a really great

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<v Speaker 2>chance to come and hang out. It's all I'm at bookstores.

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<v Speaker 2>I did kind of bigger shows the first time around,

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<v Speaker 2>but this time we're just chilling. So kitling with your permission,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm just going to rattle off some dates. What if

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, no, no, click, yeah, the zoom, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>going to go pee.

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<v Speaker 1>No please, by all means tell us okay.

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<v Speaker 2>May thirteenth, twenty twenty five, almost my birthday. So I

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<v Speaker 2>know I'm missing your birthday. It's an act of violence.

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<v Speaker 2>I will be at North Fig Bookshop in Los Angeles,

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<v Speaker 2>hosted by friend of the cast, Julia Clair, May fourteenth.

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<v Speaker 2>I will be at Carmichael's Bookstore in Louisville, Kentucky on

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<v Speaker 2>May fifteenth, I will be at the Cambridge Public Library

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<v Speaker 2>in Massachusetts with the Harvard Bookstore, and I will be

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<v Speaker 2>in conversation with one of my dear friends, PBS's own

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<v Speaker 2>Tory Bedford. On the nineteenth of May, I will be

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<v Speaker 2>in Portland, Maine at Longfellow Books, hosted by friend of

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<v Speaker 2>the cast Mayo Williams. I am very very excited. On

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<v Speaker 2>the twentieth, I will be going down to Harrisburg, Pennsylvania,

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<v Speaker 2>my home state. Know they're going to be begging, They're like,

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<v Speaker 2>where are they? I will be at the Midtown Scholar

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<v Speaker 2>Bookstore and Cafe in conversation with Joe Piazza. Then on

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<v Speaker 2>May twenty first, I will be at the Fountain Bookstore

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<v Speaker 2>in Richmond, Virginia. And on May twenty second, I will

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<v Speaker 2>be at Coppersfield Books in Pedaluma, California. And finally, on

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<v Speaker 2>May thirty first, I will be at Marin Country Mart,

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<v Speaker 2>which is also with Coppersfield's book in Larkspur, California. So

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<v Speaker 2>if you live in those areas, please come out. I

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<v Speaker 2>would love to see you. I'd love to chat. Please

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<v Speaker 2>recommend your favorite hot dog. Let's talk becktel Cast, Let's

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<v Speaker 2>do whatever. And there will be dates announced later in

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<v Speaker 2>the summer. So if you would like a show or

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<v Speaker 2>a signing to happen in your town, please reach out

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<v Speaker 2>and I will send it to my publisher and be like, see,

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<v Speaker 2>I should go there. Anyways, that's a great it's begging

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<v Speaker 2>works sometimes, and we'll link this full thing in the description.

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<v Speaker 2>But see you soon. I'm making a little outfit and

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<v Speaker 2>that's the Jamie Loftus promise.

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<v Speaker 1>I can't wait to see.

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<v Speaker 2>So if you click the link in the description, it

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<v Speaker 2>will take you to the full page where you can

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<v Speaker 2>register to go to these events. They are all free events,

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<v Speaker 2>so come and hang out and provided that I get

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<v Speaker 2>my shit together in time, there will also be speakers

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<v Speaker 2>from local unions at all of these signings, So come out,

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<v Speaker 2>make some friends, come hang out, and uh, let's eat.

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<v Speaker 3>Some hot dogs.

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<v Speaker 1>Beautiful. We'll throw the link to be able to access

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<v Speaker 1>registration for the events on our link tree as well

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<v Speaker 1>link tree slash Bechdel Cast, so there's no excuse not

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<v Speaker 1>to come.

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<v Speaker 2>It's free, it's fun. I'll be wearing a little outfit.

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<v Speaker 2>Come buy the book, yay, enjoy the episode.

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<v Speaker 1>About three things I was absolutely certain, Oh my god. First,

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<v Speaker 1>the Bechdel Cast is a podcast, okay. Second, and there

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<v Speaker 1>was a part of the podcast and I didn't know

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<v Speaker 1>how potent that part might be. Yeap that thirsted for

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<v Speaker 1>knowledge and amazing discourse. And Third, the hosts, Caitlin and

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<v Speaker 1>Jamie were unconditionally and irrevocably in love with each other.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I like it. Thank you, Wow, thank you Stephanie Meyer.

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<v Speaker 2>She's a Mormon, and they're pretty homophobic. I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>if she would endoors what.

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<v Speaker 1>Was just said. I don't think so.

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<v Speaker 2>But it's what I want. It's what a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>Twilight fans want. Every fan community wants a queer romance.

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<v Speaker 2>But sometimes you just end up with Bella and Edward

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<v Speaker 2>and you got to project the rest. And that's what

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<v Speaker 2>we're here to talk about today. Welcome to the Bechtel Cast,

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<v Speaker 2>the podcast where we take your favorite movies and talk

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<v Speaker 2>about them from an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel

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<v Speaker 2>Test as a jumping off point for discussion. This is

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<v Speaker 2>I think one of a handful of episodes that of

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<v Speaker 2>where we were covering a movie for a second time.

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<v Speaker 2>We first covered this movie, I did not realize how

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<v Speaker 2>long ago it was. My brain was not fully developed

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<v Speaker 2>the last time we covered this movie, were you like

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<v Speaker 2>how old I was? Twenty four? Whoa as bravely twenty

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<v Speaker 2>four years old? I was just the last synapses were

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<v Speaker 2>snapping into place, And so I cannot be held accountable

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<v Speaker 2>for anything I said in twenty seventeen. You can be

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<v Speaker 2>held accountable.

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<v Speaker 1>I am repulsed to even think about what might have

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<v Speaker 1>happened on that episode. I am afraid to go back

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<v Speaker 1>and listen to it. We may or may not keep

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<v Speaker 1>it up, we might delete it. Our guest was my

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<v Speaker 1>best friend JT, and we just it was only like

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<v Speaker 1>a few months into the US doing the podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think we need to apologize for something we

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<v Speaker 2>did in twenty seventeen. The reason we're recovering it is because,

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<v Speaker 2>like a lot of early you know, this was before

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<v Speaker 2>podcasting was our full time job. We didn't have the

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<v Speaker 2>time nor the resources to put in as much research

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<v Speaker 2>as we put into the show now, and most of you,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm assuming we're not listening back then. So while it

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<v Speaker 2>was a fun episode, I did not really listen to it.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't care what I had to say in twenty seventeen,

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<v Speaker 2>nor should you. But I also think that you know,

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<v Speaker 2>like intersectional feminist discourse has evolved, thankfully, quite a bit

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<v Speaker 2>since twenty seventeen. So we have grown, as has the world.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, you know whatever, There's been a lot of regression,

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<v Speaker 2>but on a personal level, there's been growth. Yeah, and

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<v Speaker 2>there's also been just like, this is the series people

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<v Speaker 2>will never shut the fuck up about. It's really interesting

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<v Speaker 2>to watch in the last and I say that would

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<v Speaker 2>love because I've watched all of it. Yeah, Twilight discourse

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<v Speaker 2>is something that just as it begins to die down,

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<v Speaker 2>there's a new angle, and baby, we're going with it.

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<v Speaker 2>Like in the last I would say two to three

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<v Speaker 2>years Twilight discourse, I think because of like the twenty

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<v Speaker 2>year popularity cycle of things. Sure, people were getting nostalgic

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<v Speaker 2>for the Twilight years, and now we're talking about it

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<v Speaker 2>again and there's new things to talk about.

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<v Speaker 1>We're back in the Twilight zone.

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<v Speaker 2>We're in the Twilight zone today. And so anyways, if

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<v Speaker 2>you listen to our first episode, we don't know what

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<v Speaker 2>it said. We hope we did an okay job. But

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<v Speaker 2>today we're here to do a better job because we're

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<v Speaker 2>grown ups now and our brains are working better than ever.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I wouldn't say that necessary.

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<v Speaker 2>Well not Caylyn, Mine's better than no, I'm kidding.

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<v Speaker 1>Mine is descending into mush.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so maybe we were working on the same amount

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<v Speaker 2>of brain power cumulatively that we were in twenty seventeen,

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<v Speaker 2>but the thoughts will be different. Yeah, okay, but we're

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<v Speaker 2>using the Benal tests and jumping off point. Caitlin, what

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<v Speaker 2>is that? I forget?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, my amazing memory will tell you. It's a media

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<v Speaker 1>metric created by cartoonist Alice and Bechdel, sometimes called the

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<v Speaker 1>Bechdel Wallace Test. There's many versions of it. We require that,

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<v Speaker 1>in order to pass, two characters of a marginalized gender

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<v Speaker 1>must have names, they must speak to each other, and

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<v Speaker 1>their conversation has to be about something other than a man.

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<v Speaker 1>But you know, it's just a jumping off point. It's

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<v Speaker 1>not the end all be all. There's much more to discuss,

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<v Speaker 1>and in the case of the Twilight Saga, so much

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<v Speaker 1>to discuss.

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<v Speaker 2>We talked about it, I'm sure a lot of things

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<v Speaker 2>in our first episode, but it turns out there's actually

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<v Speaker 2>fifty more things to talk about than we initially realized,

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<v Speaker 2>and so we have brought in an expert, an enthusiast,

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<v Speaker 2>someone who has spent time in the trenches with the

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<v Speaker 2>twyhards to come and educate us.

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<v Speaker 1>Today, she's a poet an educator. She's the author of

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<v Speaker 1>two poetry collections, former poet Laureate of Portsmouth, New Hampshire,

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<v Speaker 1>a host of Bread and Poetry podcast It's Danelli Antigua.

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<v Speaker 1>Hello and welcome.

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<v Speaker 3>Hello, Hello, Hi, Hi, Hi God.

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<v Speaker 1>Tell us what is your relationship to Twilight?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh? Where shall I begin? I think my relationship with

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<v Speaker 3>Twilight first came from the books. I started reading the

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<v Speaker 3>books when I was a teenager and fell in love

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<v Speaker 3>with those first. And I had a really strange upbringing.

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<v Speaker 3>I was raised in a cult, and around the years

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<v Speaker 3>where I started reading the Twilight books, I was starting

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<v Speaker 3>to emerge from the kind of like sheltered cocoon that

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<v Speaker 3>I was in for so many years. So I was

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<v Speaker 3>about eighteen nineteen years old, and when the movies came out,

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<v Speaker 3>I was just like first experiencing life in the world,

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<v Speaker 3>in the secular world, and Twilight was my I almost

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<v Speaker 3>like my rum spring on. It was my like coming

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<v Speaker 3>out into society. And I remember when I watched Twilight,

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<v Speaker 3>I went to the midnight premiere because I was one

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<v Speaker 3>of those like midnight premiere bitches. I was wearing my

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<v Speaker 3>Team Edward shirt. I was wearing a Tutu leg warmers.

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<v Speaker 2>We saw the pictures. They're incredible.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, thank you. I was wearing fingerless gloves that I

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<v Speaker 3>got a hot topic, like, I just like went all out,

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<v Speaker 3>and I remember buying a Noss from like the gas station,

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<v Speaker 3>and I went to and I went to the midnight

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<v Speaker 3>premiere and it was like just life changing for me

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<v Speaker 3>at the time, and many many years have passed since then.

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<v Speaker 3>I definitely have a different relationship to Twilight at this point,

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<v Speaker 3>but there's still like that little girl, that like nineteen

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<v Speaker 3>year old girl who is madly in love with Edward

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<v Speaker 3>and has you know, posters of him in her bedroom

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<v Speaker 3>and shit, like I was so obsessed. That might be,

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<v Speaker 3>but I'm sure there's more. I'm sure there's more.

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<v Speaker 1>Well share whatever comes up.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, truly, don't hesitate. This is a safe space for twyhearts.

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you, Thank you, Jamie.

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<v Speaker 1>Remind us what's your relationship?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh gosh, I wonder if I said anything defensive in

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<v Speaker 2>my first when we talked about this movie like eight

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<v Speaker 2>years ago.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, you were twenty four, so I.

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<v Speaker 2>Can't be accountable for what I did when I was

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<v Speaker 2>twenty four years old, a full grown adult. So I

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<v Speaker 2>read the books. I think, maybe not right when they

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<v Speaker 2>came out, but like they definitely were gathering steam in

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<v Speaker 2>the middle school contingency as they were coming out. I

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<v Speaker 2>remember my mom introduced me to them because my mom

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<v Speaker 2>was both really into Twilight and Fifty Shades of Gray,

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<v Speaker 2>And to this day, I'm positive she has no idea

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<v Speaker 2>that Fifty Shades is Horny or Twilight for like non

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<v Speaker 2>Mormon Twilight fanfit. Basically yes, but she was really into

0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:03.600
<v Speaker 2>both series and so she I think that there was

0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:07.959
<v Speaker 2>like this bizarre shame feedback loop going on between the

0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:10.360
<v Speaker 2>two of us where she would get She got the

0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:14.520
<v Speaker 2>boxed set of I think the first three Twilight books

0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:16.679
<v Speaker 2>that were out at the time, and then read them

0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:19.880
<v Speaker 2>herself and then gave them to me as if to say, like,

0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:25.840
<v Speaker 2>these are yours. You bought these and then I read them,

0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:28.600
<v Speaker 2>and I don't know. Weirdly, it feels sort of in

0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:33.360
<v Speaker 2>conversation with Beliswan herself, where I was very invested in

0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:37.120
<v Speaker 2>I think, as a lot of tweens are in being

0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:40.160
<v Speaker 2>not like other girls, and part of being not like

0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:44.040
<v Speaker 2>other girls to me was not liking Twilight. And part

0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:45.760
<v Speaker 2>of being not like other girls to me was not

0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:48.920
<v Speaker 2>liking high school musical, even though I very much enjoyed

0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:52.880
<v Speaker 2>both of these things in total privacy, like I was

0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:58.120
<v Speaker 2>completely I vividly remember blowing through the first Twilight book

0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:01.200
<v Speaker 2>in like this gnarl the old hammock we had in

0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:04.720
<v Speaker 2>our backyard during the summer when I couldn't be seen

0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:08.720
<v Speaker 2>or be accounted for, and then literally going to school

0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:11.840
<v Speaker 2>the next year and being like what's that ew? And

0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:14.920
<v Speaker 2>then like going the same thing with the Jonas brothers.

0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:17.080
<v Speaker 2>I went to a Jonas Brothers concert and I was

0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:20.160
<v Speaker 2>like what is this? Meanwhile I bought a ticket, like

0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:24.360
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, like it just it's something that young

0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:25.120
<v Speaker 2>people do.

0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:28.760
<v Speaker 1>And we can talk about that, like the shame that

0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:32.440
<v Speaker 1>like culture attaches to do you like something like Twilight,

0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:36.040
<v Speaker 1>You're a freaking loser because that's for girls.

0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:39.400
<v Speaker 2>It was a big thing, and I think that it's yeah,

0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:41.440
<v Speaker 2>it's tied up and like how not like other girl

0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:45.320
<v Speaker 2>stuff is like internalized misogyny to some extent. Yeah, So

0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:48.160
<v Speaker 2>I was I was writing high on that meanwhile reading

0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:50.520
<v Speaker 2>Twilight books, like my life depended on it. By the

0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:53.640
<v Speaker 2>time the movies came out, I was I saw the

0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:56.840
<v Speaker 2>first movie. I remember, like I think seeing the first movie.

0:14:56.920 --> 0:14:58.640
<v Speaker 2>I was in high school by that point, and I

0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:02.560
<v Speaker 2>was at the tail end of my like so weird

0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:04.920
<v Speaker 2>that I'm at this movie the day it comes out.

0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:07.960
<v Speaker 2>How could this have happened? But I did see it

0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:09.840
<v Speaker 2>the day come out. I kind of fell off after that.

0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:12.880
<v Speaker 2>I moved on to whatever the fuck I was doing,

0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:16.200
<v Speaker 2>So I didn't see the other movies. I don't think

0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:19.480
<v Speaker 2>in theaters, and I'm not even sure to this day

0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:21.480
<v Speaker 2>if I've seen all of them. I feel like I've

0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:23.760
<v Speaker 2>only seen one of the because the last one's in

0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:27.400
<v Speaker 2>two parts. Yes, I don't think i've seen one of them.

0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:29.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm not sure. I read all the books. I haven't

0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:30.280
<v Speaker 2>seen all the movies.

0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:34.120
<v Speaker 3>That might be blasphemy, but I do feel like revisiting

0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:34.800
<v Speaker 3>the first book.

0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:39.080
<v Speaker 2>So also, I really over prepared for this episode. I

0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:40.080
<v Speaker 2>reread the book.

0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:40.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:45.640
<v Speaker 2>Wow, I walked fourteen miles yesterday just pacing around listening

0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:50.240
<v Speaker 2>to the audio book, sweating my ass off, being like

0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:53.080
<v Speaker 2>I gotta get it all in. And then there's also

0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:58.120
<v Speaker 2>been so much Twilight discourse that there are so many essays.

0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:01.520
<v Speaker 2>There's one essay I'll be citing a intensively today from

0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:05.680
<v Speaker 2>Capacious journal Wow that is called still not as Gay

0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:09.920
<v Speaker 2>as Twilight, postmodern affect, nostalgia and queer Twilight renaissance during

0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:14.080
<v Speaker 2>the COVID nineteen pandemic, And that is where I think

0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:18.040
<v Speaker 2>it was during the initial lockdown period where you saw

0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:22.440
<v Speaker 2>this kind of resurgence of Twilight discourse that has I

0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:24.640
<v Speaker 2>think was going on well into last year because there

0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:28.960
<v Speaker 2>was a very popular ContraPoints video that came out on

0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:31.120
<v Speaker 2>that topic. So I think it went on for nearly

0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:33.680
<v Speaker 2>five years. But I think because so many people became

0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:40.120
<v Speaker 2>nostalgic for comfortable feelings during Lockdown, that all of a sudden,

0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:44.440
<v Speaker 2>Twilight was back. And I watched and engaged with a

0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:47.360
<v Speaker 2>lot of that, and I don't know, I just like

0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:50.600
<v Speaker 2>I'm constantly engaging with Twilight. While I would consider myself

0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:55.640
<v Speaker 2>a casual fan at best. Anyways, rewatching the first movie,

0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:58.440
<v Speaker 2>it's a good movie. Like I don't know what to say.

0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:00.880
<v Speaker 2>It's like, there's a lot of issues with it. But

0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:03.960
<v Speaker 2>when it comes to like do I understand why people

0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:06.959
<v Speaker 2>absolutely love this movie? And do I feel like it

0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:13.479
<v Speaker 2>captures this very specific not like other Girls Fantasy one

0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:17.560
<v Speaker 2>hundred percent, and the soundtrack is still great.

0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:20.440
<v Speaker 3>Oh my god, yes, yeah, so rock and roll.

0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:24.560
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, super massive black hole, baseball scene. I'm like,

0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:26.120
<v Speaker 2>you can't do all that.

0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:27.360
<v Speaker 3>Oh my goodness.

0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:32.000
<v Speaker 2>The baseball scene is is so hot cinema, It's so good.

0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:36.920
<v Speaker 2>I love the baseball scene. Everything, Like, the baseball scene's

0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:40.200
<v Speaker 2>the best part. But I get it. And I also

0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:44.199
<v Speaker 2>have really enjoyed going through people's you know, reflections on

0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:46.480
<v Speaker 2>this because there's also a massive queer fan base for

0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:51.359
<v Speaker 2>this essentially Mormon movie, so we'll get into it. But anyways,

0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:54.080
<v Speaker 2>Caitlin remind us, what is your history with Twilight?

0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:57.080
<v Speaker 1>Oh gosh, I'm sure I had a better memory of

0:17:57.119 --> 0:17:59.840
<v Speaker 1>it on the first episode. But again, I will not

0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:02.000
<v Speaker 1>be going back to listen to that, and I don't

0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:04.440
<v Speaker 1>think our listeners should either.

0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:06.640
<v Speaker 2>Please don't well and just take it down.

0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:08.600
<v Speaker 1>I mean maybe we will anyway.

0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:11.919
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, what are you edging like Dubella and Edwards?

0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:18.359
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, anyway, so I the first few books came out,

0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:20.919
<v Speaker 1>I don't really know the timeline of like what was

0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:21.880
<v Speaker 1>published when.

0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:24.320
<v Speaker 2>Two thousand and five, six, seven and eight.

0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:27.840
<v Speaker 1>Okay, and then thank you so much, and then so

0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:32.560
<v Speaker 1>the first movie came out in two thousand and eight, right, yeah, okay,

0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:39.160
<v Speaker 1>so it wasn't until probably twenty ten, I would say, again,

0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:44.040
<v Speaker 1>memory is murky, but it was well after the books

0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:46.760
<v Speaker 1>had come out, and probably the first one or two

0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:49.320
<v Speaker 1>movies had come out before. And of course I heard

0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:52.080
<v Speaker 1>people talking about I have a distinct memory of chatting

0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:56.160
<v Speaker 1>with some people when I moved to New York, which

0:18:56.320 --> 0:18:58.280
<v Speaker 1>was in two thousand and eight, and I was talking

0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:00.959
<v Speaker 1>to a friend and her sister, and it was like

0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:03.800
<v Speaker 1>a sister older than me, so she was she would

0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:05.800
<v Speaker 1>have been like in her mid twenties at the time,

0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:08.520
<v Speaker 1>and she's like, yeah, Twilight is the best thing I've

0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:11.720
<v Speaker 1>ever read. I want to date Edward Da da da.

0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:14.080
<v Speaker 1>And I was just like, what are you talking about?

0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:17.840
<v Speaker 1>What's this Twilight thing? And then the movie started coming out,

0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:20.000
<v Speaker 1>and because I hate books and I love movies, I

0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:23.919
<v Speaker 1>was like, Okay, fine, I'll check this out. And I

0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:26.239
<v Speaker 1>think I don't remember if this was the case or not,

0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:29.679
<v Speaker 1>but it might have been jt our guest on the

0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:33.320
<v Speaker 1>first episode that we did on this movie that kind

0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:35.359
<v Speaker 1>of got me into it. I don't know if he

0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:37.480
<v Speaker 1>like showed me the first movie.

0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:39.480
<v Speaker 2>Again, massive queer fan base.

0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:43.200
<v Speaker 1>Like yeah, yeah, either he showed me the first one

0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:46.640
<v Speaker 1>or I definitely started watching the other ones with him,

0:19:46.680 --> 0:19:50.719
<v Speaker 1>to the point where I think I saw Eclipse Breaking

0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:53.760
<v Speaker 1>Down Part one and two in theaters with him.

0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:56.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh so you saw you were like on the other half,

0:19:56.600 --> 0:19:59.640
<v Speaker 2>you're a late Twilight bloomer. Yeah, what did you think

0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:01.080
<v Speaker 2>of the mo some of these at the time, I'm

0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:03.000
<v Speaker 2>so cue because that would have been like well into

0:20:03.080 --> 0:20:04.760
<v Speaker 2>Twilight backlash.

0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:06.560
<v Speaker 1>Era too, and I was a part of that. I

0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:12.560
<v Speaker 1>was like, these movies suck. They're bad, and yet I

0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:13.399
<v Speaker 1>was going to see them.

0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:16.679
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you're not wrong, but I mean they're not.

0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:21.800
<v Speaker 1>Okay. Here's the thing. There's a distinction between I like

0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:25.479
<v Speaker 1>it and this is good, and both of those All

0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:29.600
<v Speaker 1>of these things are subjective, right right, that's camp. I

0:20:29.800 --> 0:20:32.320
<v Speaker 1>was like, this is not good and I don't necessarily

0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:36.120
<v Speaker 1>like it, but I do. There's some weird like I'm

0:20:36.160 --> 0:20:39.200
<v Speaker 1>compelled by these, I'm entertained by these. I can't stop

0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:42.520
<v Speaker 1>watching them. I'm not really enjoying myself or am I

0:20:42.520 --> 0:20:45.520
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, there's like this I cannot explain how

0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:47.440
<v Speaker 1>I experience.

0:20:48.400 --> 0:20:52.720
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, that's like Edward himself, Like everything about him

0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:56.400
<v Speaker 3>draws you in his voice is smell, the way he

0:20:56.440 --> 0:20:57.639
<v Speaker 3>looks exactly.

0:20:57.960 --> 0:21:01.560
<v Speaker 1>But I know that he's dangerous, yeah, and that there's

0:21:01.560 --> 0:21:03.399
<v Speaker 1>something to be feared about it.

0:21:03.520 --> 0:21:05.800
<v Speaker 2>What do you think you could outrun him? Do you

0:21:05.800 --> 0:21:09.240
<v Speaker 2>think you could fight back? Because you couldn't, because you're

0:21:09.280 --> 0:21:09.919
<v Speaker 2>never gone up.

0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:12.359
<v Speaker 1>I couldn't. He's killed people.

0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:15.399
<v Speaker 3>He's like a drug to you. He's like a drug

0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:15.639
<v Speaker 3>to you.

0:21:15.840 --> 0:21:18.960
<v Speaker 1>He is my own personal brand of heroine, and I him.

0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:23.280
<v Speaker 2>That scene is the most hot topic codd scene that

0:21:23.359 --> 0:21:25.000
<v Speaker 2>has ever been committed to film.

0:21:25.400 --> 0:21:27.080
<v Speaker 1>It's completely blue.

0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:30.320
<v Speaker 2>Like this whole movie is blue, and I support it. Yeah,

0:21:30.480 --> 0:21:32.399
<v Speaker 2>you know you were team Edward?

0:21:32.920 --> 0:21:33.160
<v Speaker 3>Yes?

0:21:33.440 --> 0:21:36.680
<v Speaker 2>I was. Yeah. And then Kaitlyn, did you ever choose

0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:38.120
<v Speaker 2>a team or were you just team Hater?

0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:41.160
<v Speaker 1>No? I was hardcore team Jacob.

0:21:41.680 --> 0:21:45.600
<v Speaker 2>I was team Jacob as well. Yeah, which is canonically,

0:21:46.600 --> 0:21:51.119
<v Speaker 2>I mean Jacob ends up marrying a baby, yes, yes,

0:21:51.640 --> 0:21:55.919
<v Speaker 2>which ContraPoints argues is a way of the series having

0:21:55.960 --> 0:21:59.520
<v Speaker 2>it always of like, hmm, he falls in love with

0:21:59.560 --> 0:22:02.080
<v Speaker 2>an extent Bella, and this is how they're able to

0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:04.760
<v Speaker 2>like justify this like polycule that they create.

0:22:05.520 --> 0:22:09.240
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, he like loved her egg, you know, yeah, and

0:22:09.280 --> 0:22:09.680
<v Speaker 3>you're like.

0:22:09.760 --> 0:22:13.239
<v Speaker 2>That's well, that's disgusting. It got harder and harder to

0:22:13.240 --> 0:22:16.080
<v Speaker 2>be team Jacob as the books went on. I will

0:22:16.119 --> 0:22:19.919
<v Speaker 2>say definitely, because I don't remember very much about Breaking

0:22:19.960 --> 0:22:23.280
<v Speaker 2>Down at all, but I vividly remember the scene where

0:22:23.480 --> 0:22:26.359
<v Speaker 2>he's like, I'm in love with your unborn baby and

0:22:26.480 --> 0:22:29.959
<v Speaker 2>being like, no, my team is down. My team is

0:22:30.960 --> 0:22:33.600
<v Speaker 2>my team. We've lost, We've lost, he's in love with

0:22:33.600 --> 0:22:34.679
<v Speaker 2>the baby. We're cooked.

0:22:35.560 --> 0:22:38.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And I think I went back and read. I

0:22:38.600 --> 0:22:40.960
<v Speaker 1>don't know if I finished the first Twilight book or

0:22:41.080 --> 0:22:43.240
<v Speaker 1>just read a good enough of a chunk of it

0:22:43.280 --> 0:22:46.479
<v Speaker 1>where I did. Basically, I just wanted to confirm that

0:22:46.520 --> 0:22:49.399
<v Speaker 1>the writing was as bad as I had heard that

0:22:49.520 --> 0:22:54.320
<v Speaker 1>it was, and I did confirm that. But I didn't

0:22:54.359 --> 0:22:56.880
<v Speaker 1>read any of the other books. But I have seen

0:22:57.040 --> 0:23:00.000
<v Speaker 1>I would say I've seen the first Twilight movie probably

0:23:00.240 --> 0:23:04.600
<v Speaker 1>a good fifteen times. Whoa yeah, and then it tapers

0:23:04.600 --> 0:23:07.520
<v Speaker 1>off like I've only seen Breaking Dawn Part two that

0:23:07.600 --> 0:23:09.359
<v Speaker 1>one time in theaters. I'm pretty sure.

0:23:09.760 --> 0:23:10.080
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:23:10.160 --> 0:23:11.639
<v Speaker 2>I was like, I think I've seen it like at

0:23:11.760 --> 0:23:14.159
<v Speaker 2>least five times, and I don't think I've seen a

0:23:14.160 --> 0:23:15.240
<v Speaker 2>few of the movies ever.

0:23:15.520 --> 0:23:18.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, really it's weird, Like there are movies that I

0:23:18.080 --> 0:23:21.160
<v Speaker 1>considered to be my favorite, like among my favorite movies,

0:23:21.200 --> 0:23:23.680
<v Speaker 1>that I have seen fewer times, and I've seen Twilight,

0:23:23.680 --> 0:23:25.280
<v Speaker 1>which I would not consider at all to be one

0:23:25.280 --> 0:23:29.560
<v Speaker 1>of my favorite movies. I cannot explain this phenomenon, and

0:23:29.640 --> 0:23:34.400
<v Speaker 1>yet it exists. So I have a weird relationship with Twilight.

0:23:34.480 --> 0:23:38.440
<v Speaker 1>I think it's trash and yet I know it very well.

0:23:38.880 --> 0:23:41.080
<v Speaker 2>But I think that's like a very common experience.

0:23:41.600 --> 0:23:44.959
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, don't humans love trash? Though, Like don't we love trash?

0:23:45.320 --> 0:23:50.360
<v Speaker 3>Like reality TV is trash? Sackly, I love McDonald's.

0:23:50.480 --> 0:23:54.520
<v Speaker 2>That's trash, but it's good trash, but it's delicious trash.

0:23:54.600 --> 0:23:56.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, except boycott McDonald's.

0:23:56.560 --> 0:24:01.520
<v Speaker 2>But right, right, right, But yes, but the idea behind yes, Yeah,

0:24:01.560 --> 0:24:03.480
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. There's been a lot of I think

0:24:03.520 --> 0:24:06.640
<v Speaker 2>in this like most recent past five years, discourse around

0:24:06.680 --> 0:24:11.400
<v Speaker 2>Twilight have like moved forward the conversation around this franchise

0:24:11.400 --> 0:24:14.560
<v Speaker 2>in an interesting way of like almost getting back to

0:24:15.640 --> 0:24:20.199
<v Speaker 2>the shame and like projection that was beneath some but

0:24:20.359 --> 0:24:23.760
<v Speaker 2>not all, of the Twilight backlash. That's the thing is,

0:24:23.760 --> 0:24:27.120
<v Speaker 2>like it's just very complicated because there's a billion very

0:24:27.240 --> 0:24:31.000
<v Speaker 2>valid critiques of this franchise, many of which we'll discuss today. Yes,

0:24:31.240 --> 0:24:34.840
<v Speaker 2>and we'll just place here we're not discussing the entire

0:24:34.920 --> 0:24:40.520
<v Speaker 2>franchise today because we would never leave the zoom call

0:24:40.720 --> 0:24:44.840
<v Speaker 2>if that were the case, right, So we're discussing the

0:24:44.920 --> 0:24:49.600
<v Speaker 2>first movie, the book, the you know, cultural sensation at

0:24:49.600 --> 0:24:51.520
<v Speaker 2>the time of the first movie today and then we

0:24:51.560 --> 0:24:55.280
<v Speaker 2>will cover subsequent movies on the show down the line,

0:24:55.359 --> 0:24:59.520
<v Speaker 2>just because it's just like such a broad topic that, Yeah,

0:24:59.560 --> 0:25:02.040
<v Speaker 2>if there are certain elements of this franchise you would

0:25:02.040 --> 0:25:04.000
<v Speaker 2>like to hear us talk more about, please let us know,

0:25:05.000 --> 0:25:07.359
<v Speaker 2>and we will make a point to discuss that in

0:25:07.560 --> 0:25:10.639
<v Speaker 2>future installments. But there's just there really is just like

0:25:10.880 --> 0:25:14.200
<v Speaker 2>so so so much to.

0:25:14.240 --> 0:25:19.320
<v Speaker 1>Talk about, truly, and let's try to begin. But first

0:25:19.359 --> 0:25:22.280
<v Speaker 1>we'll take a quick break and then we'll come back

0:25:22.280 --> 0:25:35.720
<v Speaker 1>for the recap and we're back, all right. I'm really

0:25:35.840 --> 0:25:40.879
<v Speaker 1>mean during this recap so apology in advance.

0:25:41.040 --> 0:25:42.840
<v Speaker 2>Like I like that You're like, I'm a Twilight hater

0:25:43.160 --> 0:25:47.960
<v Speaker 2>to the grave, Caitlin, You're not like other she theys You're.

0:25:47.800 --> 0:25:52.720
<v Speaker 1>Just not I'm not I am an intellectual no, just kidding.

0:25:52.840 --> 0:25:54.880
<v Speaker 3>Didn't you get a film degree somewhere right?

0:25:55.840 --> 0:25:58.639
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much for bringing something up that I

0:25:58.840 --> 0:26:02.439
<v Speaker 1>would never mention, which is that I do have a

0:26:02.480 --> 0:26:05.240
<v Speaker 1>master's degree in screenwriting from Boston University.

0:26:05.400 --> 0:26:07.240
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, that's what I thought.

0:26:07.400 --> 0:26:09.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but again, would never mention it. So I actually

0:26:09.560 --> 0:26:12.200
<v Speaker 1>don't even know how anybody knows that because I've never

0:26:12.240 --> 0:26:12.919
<v Speaker 1>said it before.

0:26:13.040 --> 0:26:14.199
<v Speaker 2>I didn't. I just learning.

0:26:14.440 --> 0:26:25.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Anyway, content warning at the top for abusive relationship dynamics, stalking, gaslighting,

0:26:26.200 --> 0:26:31.119
<v Speaker 1>things of that nature. And here we go. We open

0:26:31.480 --> 0:26:36.320
<v Speaker 1>on a deer in the woods pray if you will,

0:26:37.440 --> 0:26:43.080
<v Speaker 1>and there's also a predator something or someone is chasing

0:26:43.119 --> 0:26:45.760
<v Speaker 1>the deer and grabs.

0:26:45.400 --> 0:26:50.000
<v Speaker 2>It, and then it goes me. This court of this

0:26:50.119 --> 0:26:54.960
<v Speaker 2>movie is a real earworm. Shout out Carter Burwell. There's

0:26:55.080 --> 0:26:59.320
<v Speaker 2>It's wild how many like really generationally talented people worked

0:26:59.640 --> 0:27:03.760
<v Speaker 2>on this movie because Carter Burwell is like iconic. He's

0:27:03.760 --> 0:27:04.400
<v Speaker 2>so good.

0:27:04.640 --> 0:27:08.120
<v Speaker 1>My favorite part is when it starts out being non

0:27:08.200 --> 0:27:12.760
<v Speaker 1>diegetic and then suddenly it's diagetic because Edward is playing

0:27:12.800 --> 0:27:16.600
<v Speaker 1>it on the piano the score of the movie, and

0:27:16.640 --> 0:27:17.639
<v Speaker 1>you're just like, WHOA.

0:27:18.640 --> 0:27:21.200
<v Speaker 2>I like it because I think Carter Burrell is probably

0:27:21.200 --> 0:27:23.240
<v Speaker 2>the most famous for being like the Coen Brothers go

0:27:23.320 --> 0:27:27.280
<v Speaker 2>to guy. But also he did Twilight, and I support that.

0:27:27.400 --> 0:27:28.280
<v Speaker 2>It's a good score.

0:27:28.440 --> 0:27:31.560
<v Speaker 1>It's pretty good. Okay, So there's this deer. Then we

0:27:31.680 --> 0:27:37.120
<v Speaker 1>cut to Bella Swan played by Kristin Stewart, who is

0:27:37.440 --> 0:27:43.200
<v Speaker 1>moving from Phoenix, Arizona because her mom wants to travel

0:27:43.240 --> 0:27:47.120
<v Speaker 1>around with her brosif of a husband instead of raise

0:27:47.200 --> 0:27:48.320
<v Speaker 1>her teenage daughter.

0:27:49.119 --> 0:27:53.200
<v Speaker 2>So, yeah, Renee, Renee's a real piece of work.

0:27:53.440 --> 0:27:54.119
<v Speaker 3>Yeah she is.

0:27:54.480 --> 0:27:58.400
<v Speaker 1>So Bella gets shipped off to Forks, Washington to live

0:27:58.440 --> 0:28:00.679
<v Speaker 1>with her dad, Arlie Swan.

0:28:01.280 --> 0:28:05.280
<v Speaker 2>And while he's hot, a cav includes Charlie Swan, It

0:28:05.320 --> 0:28:09.359
<v Speaker 2>really does, because he's the chief of police of Forks, Washington.

0:28:10.840 --> 0:28:14.879
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so he and Bella have a very awkward relationship,

0:28:15.400 --> 0:28:20.480
<v Speaker 1>but he does buy her a truck off of Billy

0:28:20.560 --> 0:28:25.320
<v Speaker 1>Black played by Gil Birmingham. His son is Jacob Black

0:28:25.560 --> 0:28:30.840
<v Speaker 1>played by Taylor Lautner, a childhood friend of Bella's. He

0:28:31.000 --> 0:28:35.880
<v Speaker 1>mentions that he goes to school on the reservation because

0:28:36.119 --> 0:28:40.440
<v Speaker 1>he is a member of the Quillute nation. Even though,

0:28:40.720 --> 0:28:43.200
<v Speaker 1>and this is one of the very many valid criticisms

0:28:43.200 --> 0:28:46.440
<v Speaker 1>of this movie, Taylor Latner is not an indigenous actor,

0:28:46.600 --> 0:28:51.880
<v Speaker 1>and the representation of Quillute people lots to discuss there.

0:28:52.520 --> 0:28:53.960
<v Speaker 2>Well, we'll talk about that further.

0:28:54.120 --> 0:28:58.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yes, any case, he lives and goes to school

0:28:58.920 --> 0:29:04.240
<v Speaker 1>on the will You Reservation, and Bella's like, oh darn,

0:29:04.520 --> 0:29:06.760
<v Speaker 1>you were my only friend here, Like it would have

0:29:06.760 --> 0:29:09.000
<v Speaker 1>been nice to know someone at school, but she's not

0:29:09.080 --> 0:29:09.920
<v Speaker 1>even gonna know him.

0:29:10.360 --> 0:29:14.120
<v Speaker 2>And Jacob in Twilight Part one Sweetie Pie.

0:29:14.200 --> 0:29:15.120
<v Speaker 1>Yes. Yeah.

0:29:15.320 --> 0:29:19.320
<v Speaker 2>Also Taylor Lautner bad Wig not even in the top

0:29:19.400 --> 0:29:24.840
<v Speaker 2>ten problems, but did really strike me in this viewing.

0:29:24.880 --> 0:29:27.080
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, oh, it's doing a lot of work. It's

0:29:27.120 --> 0:29:29.560
<v Speaker 2>like a nicole kidman grade wig.

0:29:30.640 --> 0:29:35.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Anyway, So Bella has this new truck and she

0:29:35.720 --> 0:29:40.440
<v Speaker 1>loves this busted, rusty gass truck from the nineteen seventies

0:29:40.480 --> 0:29:44.480
<v Speaker 1>because she's not like the other girls. Then Bella heads

0:29:44.520 --> 0:29:49.720
<v Speaker 1>to school, a bunch of students are like, oh my god,

0:29:49.800 --> 0:29:53.480
<v Speaker 1>who are you? You're the coolest and most interesting person

0:29:53.520 --> 0:29:54.360
<v Speaker 1>I've ever seen.

0:29:55.720 --> 0:29:58.120
<v Speaker 2>This is I think, like, in retrospect, one of the

0:29:58.160 --> 0:30:02.560
<v Speaker 2>most interesting dream fulfillments like aspects of the story that

0:30:02.760 --> 0:30:05.560
<v Speaker 2>probably made it so appealing, where it's like, what if

0:30:05.600 --> 0:30:10.280
<v Speaker 2>you were truly the most normal person with no distinct features,

0:30:10.720 --> 0:30:14.400
<v Speaker 2>and yet everyone was obsessed with you.

0:30:15.000 --> 0:30:17.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, like who is Bella Swan? Like we don't know

0:30:17.480 --> 0:30:20.880
<v Speaker 3>anything about her hobbies, We don't know really what she likes. Truly,

0:30:21.280 --> 0:30:24.720
<v Speaker 3>She's just like blank canvas. But everyone loves that they

0:30:24.760 --> 0:30:27.880
<v Speaker 3>can just project whatever they want onto this, like very

0:30:27.920 --> 0:30:30.320
<v Speaker 3>boring Bella Swan blank canvas.

0:30:30.160 --> 0:30:32.840
<v Speaker 2>Which is like not incredibly like yeah, it's like that's

0:30:32.960 --> 0:30:36.320
<v Speaker 2>very common for protagonists. But it's like glaring with Belli

0:30:36.400 --> 0:30:39.080
<v Speaker 2>because literally we see her just like sitting in a

0:30:39.160 --> 0:30:43.120
<v Speaker 2>room staring into the middle distance when she's not like

0:30:43.520 --> 0:30:46.680
<v Speaker 2>talking to Edward Colin. You're like, all right, there's I

0:30:46.680 --> 0:30:48.800
<v Speaker 2>know we have. This is a self insert character, but

0:30:48.840 --> 0:30:52.640
<v Speaker 2>you got to give her an interest, like it is wild.

0:30:53.080 --> 0:30:54.479
<v Speaker 1>Sometimes she reads a book.

0:30:54.680 --> 0:30:57.440
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes she does read a book, and they are interestingly

0:30:57.520 --> 0:31:02.640
<v Speaker 2>the exact books that Stephanie Meyer's love sorry Stephanie Meyer

0:31:03.000 --> 0:31:07.120
<v Speaker 2>singular myyr yeah one Meyer, one Meyer. But yeah, Bella.

0:31:07.160 --> 0:31:09.640
<v Speaker 2>I mean that's a very common criticism of her husband

0:31:09.640 --> 0:31:12.040
<v Speaker 2>for twenty years. But like it is true.

0:31:12.960 --> 0:31:15.760
<v Speaker 1>You know, she doesn't have a personality.

0:31:16.320 --> 0:31:20.120
<v Speaker 3>Oh unless clumsy is part of a personality.

0:31:19.920 --> 0:31:22.800
<v Speaker 2>Which, oh my god, which in the book is exacerbated

0:31:22.880 --> 0:31:26.800
<v Speaker 2>to like such an absurd degree. I clocked literally over

0:31:27.680 --> 0:31:30.880
<v Speaker 2>forty mentions in the book of her being like what

0:31:30.960 --> 0:31:34.120
<v Speaker 2>if I fall? And Edward's like, I know there's a

0:31:34.120 --> 0:31:35.240
<v Speaker 2>big chance you'll fall.

0:31:35.560 --> 0:31:36.760
<v Speaker 3>Can you watch where you're going.

0:31:38.000 --> 0:31:40.680
<v Speaker 2>I'll make sure you don't trip and die? Like it

0:31:40.840 --> 0:31:46.360
<v Speaker 2>just it really is, like it's it's so silly. Yeah,

0:31:46.360 --> 0:31:49.040
<v Speaker 2>but it's I mean again, that's the pulling from the

0:31:49.200 --> 0:31:55.360
<v Speaker 2>Lizzie Maguire school of heroine. You're like, well, sure she's

0:31:55.480 --> 0:31:58.640
<v Speaker 2>conventionally beautiful, but she false.

0:31:59.200 --> 0:32:03.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but that doesn't stop everyone at school being obsessed

0:32:03.840 --> 0:32:10.760
<v Speaker 1>with her, including such characters as Eric, Mike Tyler, Jessica

0:32:11.000 --> 0:32:16.280
<v Speaker 1>played by Anna Kendrick, and Angela played by Christian Serrados.

0:32:17.640 --> 0:32:20.440
<v Speaker 1>So now she has all these new friends immediately, so

0:32:20.760 --> 0:32:23.200
<v Speaker 1>her concerns about not having any friends at school where

0:32:24.120 --> 0:32:28.720
<v Speaker 1>she didn't have to worry. Then at lunch, Bella spots

0:32:28.800 --> 0:32:33.560
<v Speaker 1>a group of hot thirty five year olds, and her

0:32:33.600 --> 0:32:36.720
<v Speaker 1>new friends tell her that these are the Cullens, a

0:32:36.840 --> 0:32:43.920
<v Speaker 1>family of foster kids who were adopted by doctor Cullen

0:32:44.160 --> 0:32:49.440
<v Speaker 1>and who are dating each other, including Rosalie and Emmett.

0:32:49.760 --> 0:32:54.920
<v Speaker 1>Are a couple. Alice and Jasper are a couple, although

0:32:54.920 --> 0:32:57.960
<v Speaker 1>one of them is single. And this is Edward Cullen

0:32:58.080 --> 0:33:02.400
<v Speaker 1>because he's not like other vampires. One of the things

0:33:02.400 --> 0:33:05.640
<v Speaker 1>that I don't think I ever fully registered because she

0:33:05.680 --> 0:33:08.120
<v Speaker 1>looks so different in this movie, but that I appreciated

0:33:08.360 --> 0:33:10.920
<v Speaker 1>because the other Catherine Hardwick movie we've covered on this

0:33:11.000 --> 0:33:15.080
<v Speaker 1>show is thirteen, and Nikki Reid, the star of thir

0:33:15.280 --> 0:33:19.080
<v Speaker 1>and co writer of thirteen, plays Rosalie, which I never

0:33:19.240 --> 0:33:22.800
<v Speaker 1>noticed because again wig like, I just didn't know.

0:33:23.280 --> 0:33:26.040
<v Speaker 3>And the makeup, it's the makeup in this movie is horrible,

0:33:26.240 --> 0:33:29.000
<v Speaker 3>Like all of the vampires, like you can even tell

0:33:29.360 --> 0:33:32.360
<v Speaker 3>if you look at their like collar and their neck,

0:33:32.640 --> 0:33:34.960
<v Speaker 3>you can tell that it hasn't been blended correctly.

0:33:35.320 --> 0:33:36.680
<v Speaker 2>Oh brutal.

0:33:36.960 --> 0:33:38.720
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you can still see like the pink of their

0:33:38.760 --> 0:33:41.360
<v Speaker 3>flesh when they're supposed to be pale as fuck. So

0:33:41.760 --> 0:33:43.520
<v Speaker 3>I don't know who the makeup artist was, but you

0:33:43.600 --> 0:33:45.840
<v Speaker 3>got to blend all the way down to the neck, honey,

0:33:45.880 --> 0:33:46.840
<v Speaker 3>all the way down down.

0:33:47.880 --> 0:33:50.520
<v Speaker 1>I wonder if that's why there's so much blue color

0:33:50.680 --> 0:33:53.000
<v Speaker 1>correction in the movie, because it's like we got to

0:33:53.040 --> 0:33:54.320
<v Speaker 1>hide the bad makeup.

0:33:54.040 --> 0:33:58.000
<v Speaker 2>Job, make it blue. Make it blue. Maybe that'd be incredible.

0:33:58.320 --> 0:34:01.800
<v Speaker 2>I forget what two thousand movie we were discussing recently

0:34:01.840 --> 0:34:05.840
<v Speaker 2>where I also think that the teen fashion of the

0:34:05.920 --> 0:34:09.640
<v Speaker 2>late two thousands are doing nobody any favors in this

0:34:09.719 --> 0:34:12.000
<v Speaker 2>because I feel like teen fashions of the late two

0:34:12.080 --> 0:34:16.640
<v Speaker 2>thousands really aged teenagers. There are so many pictures of

0:34:16.680 --> 0:34:18.520
<v Speaker 2>me as like a junior in high school where I'm like,

0:34:18.640 --> 0:34:20.759
<v Speaker 2>my aunt could be wearing this, Like I'm wearing these

0:34:20.800 --> 0:34:26.320
<v Speaker 2>like ponchos and like long vests and You're like, why

0:34:26.360 --> 0:34:28.919
<v Speaker 2>am I wearing what teachers were wearing? But also these

0:34:28.960 --> 0:34:32.080
<v Speaker 2>like big fake Victoria's Secret bras that my cousin would

0:34:32.120 --> 0:34:35.680
<v Speaker 2>give me, So it's like huge fake titties in like

0:34:35.800 --> 0:34:37.360
<v Speaker 2>the most clothing possible.

0:34:37.760 --> 0:34:40.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, the bombshell bra adds two cups, honey.

0:34:41.680 --> 0:34:43.840
<v Speaker 2>I used to work in Victoria's Secrets, so I know

0:34:43.920 --> 0:34:46.719
<v Speaker 2>all the secrets that was thea My cousin worked there,

0:34:46.760 --> 0:34:49.080
<v Speaker 2>and so she's like, Okay, this is going to change

0:34:49.080 --> 0:34:53.680
<v Speaker 2>your life, and it didn't. They do look old, though,

0:34:53.760 --> 0:34:56.920
<v Speaker 2>they do, yeah with all dudes. Not the actor's fault,

0:34:57.000 --> 0:34:59.319
<v Speaker 2>because I think the actors actually are younger than they

0:34:59.360 --> 0:35:01.760
<v Speaker 2>look in the movie. They're all in their twenties.

0:35:02.280 --> 0:35:04.440
<v Speaker 1>Oh really, because they come on screen and I'm like,

0:35:04.640 --> 0:35:08.160
<v Speaker 1>those people are my contemporaries currently right now as someone

0:35:08.200 --> 0:35:09.360
<v Speaker 1>in their late thirties.

0:35:10.000 --> 0:35:12.319
<v Speaker 2>No, I think that they're all it's I mean, they're

0:35:12.320 --> 0:35:14.560
<v Speaker 2>not high schoolers. I think Kristen Stewart is one of

0:35:14.600 --> 0:35:18.080
<v Speaker 2>the only actual high school age actors. Yeah, most of

0:35:18.080 --> 0:35:20.640
<v Speaker 2>them are in their twenties, but I think I don't know,

0:35:20.800 --> 0:35:22.520
<v Speaker 2>like they were just done dirty.

0:35:23.040 --> 0:35:28.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. In any case, there's one single Cullen, and it's Edward,

0:35:29.239 --> 0:35:33.719
<v Speaker 1>and he and Bella make eyes at each other. Then

0:35:33.719 --> 0:35:36.680
<v Speaker 1>they get paired up as lab partners in science class.

0:35:37.840 --> 0:35:43.000
<v Speaker 1>Except Edward is repulsed by Bella, although he also can't

0:35:43.000 --> 0:35:47.320
<v Speaker 1>stop staring at her. It's this weird like disgust slash

0:35:47.440 --> 0:35:54.280
<v Speaker 1>fascination thing that with understand why soon, and she notices

0:35:54.480 --> 0:35:58.520
<v Speaker 1>how repulsed he is by her, and she plans to

0:35:58.600 --> 0:36:02.680
<v Speaker 1>confront him about the except Edward doesn't show up at

0:36:02.719 --> 0:36:06.560
<v Speaker 1>school for days on end, so she can't confront him

0:36:06.600 --> 0:36:12.120
<v Speaker 1>right away. Meanwhile, cut to the woods, there's some dangerous

0:36:12.160 --> 0:36:17.440
<v Speaker 1>creature who's attacking people on the outskirts of town, so

0:36:17.560 --> 0:36:22.160
<v Speaker 1>that's looming over the story. Finally, Edward shows up at

0:36:22.200 --> 0:36:26.880
<v Speaker 1>school again, and he's no longer acting completely repulsed by Bella.

0:36:27.520 --> 0:36:29.960
<v Speaker 1>He's actually being kind of friendly. And so now they're

0:36:30.000 --> 0:36:34.239
<v Speaker 1>looking at an onion under a microscope and we're like,

0:36:34.280 --> 0:36:39.520
<v Speaker 1>wait a minute, onions have layers. Shrek, Shrek, Shrek.

0:36:39.640 --> 0:36:41.799
<v Speaker 2>Wow, I didn't pick up on that. That's why you

0:36:41.840 --> 0:36:46.640
<v Speaker 2>have the master's degree. Yeah, that's exactly right. Yes, Okay,

0:36:46.719 --> 0:36:51.080
<v Speaker 2>So they're like now talking kind of about nothing. He

0:36:51.160 --> 0:36:54.120
<v Speaker 2>also says something like, you're very difficult for me to

0:36:54.239 --> 0:36:58.799
<v Speaker 2>read because he loves making creepy declarations like that.

0:36:59.320 --> 0:36:59.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:36:59.560 --> 0:37:02.040
<v Speaker 2>And also that's so, you know, argublate because there's nothing

0:37:02.120 --> 0:37:07.120
<v Speaker 2>going on. There's nothing, there's no that was fella hatred. No,

0:37:07.280 --> 0:37:11.800
<v Speaker 2>I like Bella, but what is going on behind those

0:37:12.160 --> 0:37:13.880
<v Speaker 2>hazel eyes? To borrow a song title?

0:37:14.239 --> 0:37:18.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and speaking of eye color, she notices that Edward's

0:37:18.520 --> 0:37:20.920
<v Speaker 1>eyes are a different color than the last time she

0:37:21.000 --> 0:37:26.600
<v Speaker 1>saw him, and he makes an excuse about the fluorescent lighting. Aka,

0:37:26.680 --> 0:37:29.160
<v Speaker 1>this is the beginning of him gaslighting her.

0:37:29.640 --> 0:37:34.040
<v Speaker 2>And kind of the most egregious ways possible In the movie,

0:37:34.400 --> 0:37:38.040
<v Speaker 2>and just having reread the book, they really turn up

0:37:38.440 --> 0:37:42.480
<v Speaker 2>the casualness with which the gaslighting happens up to like

0:37:42.520 --> 0:37:47.719
<v Speaker 2>a fourteen because also Robert Pattinson's deliveries are so mean sounding,

0:37:48.719 --> 0:37:50.520
<v Speaker 2>and I guess the way I imagined it was a

0:37:50.600 --> 0:37:54.000
<v Speaker 2>little more like no, no, it couldn't have been. I

0:37:54.040 --> 0:37:57.879
<v Speaker 2>mean that more the way I've experienced gaslight of like, no, no,

0:37:58.320 --> 0:38:02.800
<v Speaker 2>girl with tiny brain. But he's like, no, it's de

0:38:02.920 --> 0:38:04.080
<v Speaker 2>ferorescent lights.

0:38:04.280 --> 0:38:05.840
<v Speaker 1>She's a fucking casshle.

0:38:06.480 --> 0:38:09.680
<v Speaker 2>Anyways, I do love him. I would marry him.

0:38:10.760 --> 0:38:13.640
<v Speaker 3>He talks to her about the weather, and he's like,

0:38:14.120 --> 0:38:16.359
<v Speaker 3>why did you move to the Like well, she says

0:38:16.400 --> 0:38:19.840
<v Speaker 3>she hates the rain, any cold wet thing, Yeah, she hates.

0:38:20.520 --> 0:38:21.840
<v Speaker 3>And then he like giggles.

0:38:21.440 --> 0:38:24.680
<v Speaker 1>About it afterward because he's like, I'm cold and wet, yes,

0:38:25.160 --> 0:38:29.120
<v Speaker 1>and you're about to fall in love with him, yeah,

0:38:29.120 --> 0:38:31.839
<v Speaker 1>So they have really rivet in conversations about such things

0:38:31.840 --> 0:38:40.000
<v Speaker 1>as the weather and onions. Anyway, So one day, Tyler,

0:38:40.400 --> 0:38:44.080
<v Speaker 1>one of the friends in Bella's friend group, is cruising

0:38:44.120 --> 0:38:46.600
<v Speaker 1>through the school parking lot at about sixty miles per

0:38:46.600 --> 0:38:51.520
<v Speaker 1>hour and he loses control of his van and nearly

0:38:51.719 --> 0:38:57.760
<v Speaker 1>Krene's into Bella, but suddenly Edward is there to save her,

0:38:58.320 --> 0:39:01.439
<v Speaker 1>even though he was just fifty feet away from her

0:39:01.440 --> 0:39:06.360
<v Speaker 1>like one second ago. But Edward is there and he

0:39:06.360 --> 0:39:09.840
<v Speaker 1>stops the van with what seems like superhuman strength. So

0:39:09.920 --> 0:39:13.680
<v Speaker 1>Bella is taken to the hospital where she meets doctor

0:39:13.760 --> 0:39:17.520
<v Speaker 1>Daddy Cullen. Edward is there too, and Bella is like,

0:39:18.200 --> 0:39:20.560
<v Speaker 1>what the hell happened? How did you get to me

0:39:20.680 --> 0:39:24.880
<v Speaker 1>so fast? And then he proceeds to gaslight her more

0:39:25.160 --> 0:39:27.520
<v Speaker 1>and says that he was already right next to her.

0:39:27.760 --> 0:39:29.520
<v Speaker 2>He said, you bunked your head real hard.

0:39:30.000 --> 0:39:30.719
<v Speaker 1>You're confused.

0:39:31.880 --> 0:39:35.040
<v Speaker 2>It really is like gaslighting one oh one lines like

0:39:35.320 --> 0:39:38.600
<v Speaker 2>you fell, Yeah, you must have wonked your head. It's

0:39:38.680 --> 0:39:41.640
<v Speaker 2>the lights. You're like, you've had one hundred years to

0:39:41.680 --> 0:39:44.239
<v Speaker 2>get better at gaslighting than you are, sir.

0:39:44.880 --> 0:39:49.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay. So from this point onward, now Bella is

0:39:49.960 --> 0:39:55.400
<v Speaker 1>like dreaming about Edward, partly because he is fully stalking

0:39:55.440 --> 0:39:58.360
<v Speaker 1>her and sneaking into her bedroom and watching her sleep.

0:39:59.080 --> 0:40:04.080
<v Speaker 1>He's also eavesdropped on her conversations. He's being generally cruel

0:40:04.360 --> 0:40:09.600
<v Speaker 1>and abusive to her, saying things like we shouldn't be friends,

0:40:09.640 --> 0:40:11.560
<v Speaker 1>but also I want to be friends, but you should

0:40:11.560 --> 0:40:13.719
<v Speaker 1>stay away from me because I'm not the hero. I'm

0:40:13.719 --> 0:40:18.680
<v Speaker 1>the bad guy, and She's like, no, you're a good guy.

0:40:19.320 --> 0:40:22.680
<v Speaker 1>Come to the beach with me and my friends. And

0:40:22.719 --> 0:40:24.640
<v Speaker 1>he's like, I DK probably not.

0:40:25.320 --> 0:40:26.880
<v Speaker 2>He's like, I can't. I can't go to that.

0:40:28.760 --> 0:40:32.359
<v Speaker 1>Whatever man, And we're about to find out why because

0:40:32.400 --> 0:40:34.200
<v Speaker 1>we cut to the beach called.

0:40:34.160 --> 0:40:37.319
<v Speaker 3>La Push La Push La push Baby, which is a

0:40:37.320 --> 0:40:38.319
<v Speaker 3>real place, which is.

0:40:38.320 --> 0:40:43.359
<v Speaker 1>A real place where the quill Yet people live. Edward

0:40:43.400 --> 0:40:46.600
<v Speaker 1>does not show up, but Jacob and his friends do

0:40:46.800 --> 0:40:50.680
<v Speaker 1>and they're like, oh, yeah, the Cullens don't come here,

0:40:51.560 --> 0:40:56.360
<v Speaker 1>and Jacob proceeds to tell Bella that the quilt people

0:40:56.800 --> 0:41:01.359
<v Speaker 1>are descended from wolves, the Cullens are descended from an

0:41:01.480 --> 0:41:06.240
<v Speaker 1>enemy clan, but they've established a treaty as long as

0:41:06.440 --> 0:41:12.480
<v Speaker 1>the Cullens stay off Quillute land. So Bella is like,

0:41:13.080 --> 0:41:17.160
<v Speaker 1>what's that all about? And she starts investigating. She finds

0:41:17.320 --> 0:41:21.239
<v Speaker 1>a book, a Belle Quilliute Mythology, and goes with her

0:41:21.239 --> 0:41:25.520
<v Speaker 1>friends to Port Angelis Ever heard of It? No to

0:41:25.800 --> 0:41:29.839
<v Speaker 1>buy this book while her friends, Jess and Angela go

0:41:29.960 --> 0:41:32.640
<v Speaker 1>prom dress shopping because everyone is gearing up for prom,

0:41:32.920 --> 0:41:35.759
<v Speaker 1>although Bella is not going to prom because she'll be

0:41:35.800 --> 0:41:36.920
<v Speaker 1>out of town that weekend.

0:41:37.640 --> 0:41:40.680
<v Speaker 2>Well, van Alsa thinkause she's not like other girls.

0:41:40.760 --> 0:41:42.080
<v Speaker 1>She's not like the other girls.

0:41:42.160 --> 0:41:43.000
<v Speaker 3>She doesn't dance.

0:41:43.520 --> 0:41:45.560
<v Speaker 2>She would and if she went to prom, you know,

0:41:45.680 --> 0:41:49.080
<v Speaker 2>she would be wearing Chuck Taylor. She's yes, because she

0:41:49.239 --> 0:41:51.759
<v Speaker 2>is not like, Oh god, I did have the I mean,

0:41:52.080 --> 0:41:54.680
<v Speaker 2>girls were wearing Chucks like no one's business at that time.

0:41:55.640 --> 0:41:56.760
<v Speaker 3>I was wearing Chucks.

0:41:57.160 --> 0:41:58.799
<v Speaker 1>I still do, as in.

0:41:59.280 --> 0:42:03.680
<v Speaker 2>Really, I just I really appreciated when that fad pass

0:42:03.680 --> 0:42:06.120
<v Speaker 2>because they're just not I think my arches are too

0:42:06.200 --> 0:42:08.200
<v Speaker 2>high or something. They're just not comfortable to me.

0:42:08.360 --> 0:42:10.440
<v Speaker 1>I mean, they're not the most comfortable shoe.

0:42:10.840 --> 0:42:13.840
<v Speaker 2>I bravely wear crocs everywhere I go, every single day.

0:42:14.920 --> 0:42:17.759
<v Speaker 1>I also want to point out that we see on

0:42:17.840 --> 0:42:21.320
<v Speaker 1>screen that Bella could have bought this book from Amazon,

0:42:21.840 --> 0:42:25.319
<v Speaker 1>but instead she opts to go to a whole other

0:42:25.360 --> 0:42:28.200
<v Speaker 1>city and buy it from a local independent bookstore.

0:42:28.400 --> 0:42:32.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah that's Bela Swan praxis y right there, buys from

0:42:32.600 --> 0:42:37.200
<v Speaker 2>an independent bookseller, Yes, who we see in a single shot, right,

0:42:37.640 --> 0:42:39.759
<v Speaker 2>but she does support local businesses.

0:42:40.000 --> 0:42:41.560
<v Speaker 1>Good for Bella indeed.

0:42:42.120 --> 0:42:43.640
<v Speaker 2>But name a second thing about her.

0:42:45.320 --> 0:42:47.479
<v Speaker 1>She read one book one time. What was the book?

0:42:47.520 --> 0:42:48.000
<v Speaker 1>We don't know?

0:42:48.880 --> 0:42:51.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, she still ends up mostly googling, which I thought

0:42:51.120 --> 0:42:52.520
<v Speaker 2>was funny that she went so far out of her

0:42:52.560 --> 0:42:55.520
<v Speaker 2>way to get the book. She still mostly googles the answers,

0:42:55.960 --> 0:42:59.000
<v Speaker 2>which is relatable. I've done that. I've been like, oh,

0:42:59.040 --> 0:43:01.200
<v Speaker 2>I've made a big deal of getting the books and

0:43:01.239 --> 0:43:04.680
<v Speaker 2>then been like, huh, well, I actually have run the

0:43:04.680 --> 0:43:06.440
<v Speaker 2>clock and I have three days to read this paper.

0:43:07.760 --> 0:43:10.080
<v Speaker 1>I made note of that. Though she reads exactly one

0:43:10.200 --> 0:43:14.400
<v Speaker 1>sentence from the book and then proceeds to google everything else.

0:43:14.440 --> 0:43:17.560
<v Speaker 2>I felt seen like, that's what teenagers do.

0:43:18.640 --> 0:43:22.280
<v Speaker 1>It's amazing. Okay, So she's hanging out in Port Angelis

0:43:22.680 --> 0:43:27.440
<v Speaker 1>buying books locally. Meanwhile, there is a group of scary

0:43:27.480 --> 0:43:32.320
<v Speaker 1>people and I wonder if they're vampires. They are James,

0:43:32.600 --> 0:43:37.840
<v Speaker 1>Laurent and Victoria. They're on the loose and they attack

0:43:37.880 --> 0:43:40.760
<v Speaker 1>a guy who we've met before. It's a friend of

0:43:40.840 --> 0:43:46.879
<v Speaker 1>Bella's dad's. He's presumably murdered. Then a different set of

0:43:47.160 --> 0:43:52.000
<v Speaker 1>scary people start bothering Bella on her way back from

0:43:52.200 --> 0:43:57.799
<v Speaker 1>the bookstore, but Edward comes to her rescue because he

0:43:58.040 --> 0:44:02.000
<v Speaker 1>had followed her to Port Angelis.

0:44:02.960 --> 0:44:05.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah no, but it's a good thing he did kill

0:44:05.040 --> 0:44:07.120
<v Speaker 2>him right right, because because he.

0:44:07.200 --> 0:44:10.000
<v Speaker 1>Saved her from those scary people who were about to

0:44:10.040 --> 0:44:10.640
<v Speaker 1>assault her.

0:44:11.239 --> 0:44:14.640
<v Speaker 2>He rescues her from so many bizarre predicaments.

0:44:15.719 --> 0:44:18.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah yeah, he heard what those low lifes were thinking.

0:44:19.360 --> 0:44:24.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yes, yeah. So then Edward takes Bella to dinner,

0:44:25.200 --> 0:44:28.480
<v Speaker 1>where he admits that he had been stalking her and

0:44:28.600 --> 0:44:32.320
<v Speaker 1>also tells her that he can read every person's thoughts

0:44:32.400 --> 0:44:36.600
<v Speaker 1>in the room except for hers. And if you're wondering

0:44:36.600 --> 0:44:39.640
<v Speaker 1>if she has any kind of reaction to this, well

0:44:40.200 --> 0:44:41.000
<v Speaker 1>she barely does.

0:44:42.160 --> 0:44:45.120
<v Speaker 2>We're being hard on Bella. I feel bad.

0:44:45.800 --> 0:44:49.480
<v Speaker 3>Well, she thinks that something's wrong with her because you

0:44:49.560 --> 0:44:54.040
<v Speaker 3>can't read her mind, which is like so sad. It's like, no, honey,

0:44:54.080 --> 0:44:56.400
<v Speaker 3>there's nothing wrong with you other than the regulate that

0:44:56.440 --> 0:44:59.040
<v Speaker 3>you're boring. But there's nothing wrong with you.

0:45:00.040 --> 0:45:02.480
<v Speaker 2>What's the thing is like her boringness is her power

0:45:02.600 --> 0:45:04.920
<v Speaker 2>question mark that I kept writing that down being like

0:45:05.000 --> 0:45:09.319
<v Speaker 2>it's her absolute blankness that which which we'll get into too,

0:45:09.360 --> 0:45:12.400
<v Speaker 2>because I think that, like both of the lead actors

0:45:12.520 --> 0:45:16.200
<v Speaker 2>of this movie were like pretty thoroughly dragged through the

0:45:16.320 --> 0:45:21.160
<v Speaker 2>mud in the press for something that has way more

0:45:21.200 --> 0:45:23.799
<v Speaker 2>to do with the source material than the performances, where

0:45:24.040 --> 0:45:26.280
<v Speaker 2>for years, I mean, I kind of remember this where

0:45:26.719 --> 0:45:30.040
<v Speaker 2>people were like, Kristin Stewart can't act. You know, she's

0:45:30.080 --> 0:45:32.279
<v Speaker 2>like a total blank slate. She's just like and I'm

0:45:32.320 --> 0:45:35.880
<v Speaker 2>just like, read the book. She's not given very much. Yeah,

0:45:35.880 --> 0:45:40.439
<v Speaker 2>and then a bunch of very homophobic, coded criticism of

0:45:40.600 --> 0:45:44.520
<v Speaker 2>Edward and Robert Pattinson because he's too sparkly and vampires

0:45:44.560 --> 0:45:47.000
<v Speaker 2>are famously straight. Like I don't even know where people

0:45:47.040 --> 0:45:49.759
<v Speaker 2>are going with that because that's never been a thing.

0:45:49.840 --> 0:45:53.040
<v Speaker 2>But like in any case, I was sort of like

0:45:53.080 --> 0:45:57.440
<v Speaker 2>revisiting that period of like Christian Stewart's a bad actor,

0:45:57.560 --> 0:46:01.160
<v Speaker 2>which you know, fifteen years on, you're like, yeah, monstrably untrue.

0:46:01.520 --> 0:46:03.640
<v Speaker 2>She's not just a great actor, she's a queer icon.

0:46:04.680 --> 0:46:05.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:46:05.200 --> 0:46:07.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I find it interesting that both she and Robert

0:46:07.600 --> 0:46:12.160
<v Speaker 1>Pattinson have gone on to have like pretty prolific careers

0:46:12.200 --> 0:46:15.319
<v Speaker 1>as actors. And then Taylor Latner, I would say, not

0:46:15.480 --> 0:46:16.000
<v Speaker 1>so much.

0:46:16.280 --> 0:46:18.719
<v Speaker 2>I am always buying the wrong stocks. I tell you what.

0:46:18.960 --> 0:46:23.839
<v Speaker 2>I was all in for Taylor Latner and he did

0:46:23.880 --> 0:46:26.320
<v Speaker 2>buy me a three dollars beer once.

0:46:27.120 --> 0:46:27.640
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

0:46:28.040 --> 0:46:30.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think I told that story on the first version.

0:46:30.960 --> 0:46:32.480
<v Speaker 2>Is like right after I moved to La went to

0:46:32.560 --> 0:46:36.319
<v Speaker 2>this cheap o bar called the Cha Chaw Lounge, and

0:46:36.360 --> 0:46:38.680
<v Speaker 2>for some reason, Taylor and his wife to be also

0:46:38.800 --> 0:46:43.680
<v Speaker 2>named Taylor were there and he was like, next round

0:46:43.719 --> 0:46:45.920
<v Speaker 2>on me. But all the beers cost three dollars, so

0:46:46.000 --> 0:46:49.279
<v Speaker 2>he couldn't have spent more than like thirty dollars. But

0:46:49.320 --> 0:46:52.719
<v Speaker 2>it was nice of him. I appreciated it. Yeah, So

0:46:52.840 --> 0:46:55.160
<v Speaker 2>I guess I got a three dollar return on setting

0:46:55.200 --> 0:46:58.640
<v Speaker 2>all my style and Taylor Latner three dollars plus tip.

0:46:58.680 --> 0:47:01.680
<v Speaker 1>I hope, wow, I mean could be worse.

0:47:02.000 --> 0:47:03.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:47:03.120 --> 0:47:07.560
<v Speaker 1>Anyway, So Bella returns home and this is the scene

0:47:07.560 --> 0:47:11.000
<v Speaker 1>where she looks through her book for one second and

0:47:11.040 --> 0:47:14.000
<v Speaker 1>then looks everything else up online.

0:47:14.480 --> 0:47:18.440
<v Speaker 2>I love a good googling montage. It's so pat but

0:47:18.640 --> 0:47:20.440
<v Speaker 2>I find it comforting.

0:47:20.680 --> 0:47:25.919
<v Speaker 1>M hm. And what she's looking up is information about vampires,

0:47:26.400 --> 0:47:30.640
<v Speaker 1>and she realizes that Edward is probably a vampire based

0:47:30.719 --> 0:47:36.200
<v Speaker 1>on his super speed and strength, his cold skin, his

0:47:36.239 --> 0:47:41.680
<v Speaker 1>ability to read people's minds, since that's famously a vampire quality.

0:47:42.080 --> 0:47:44.560
<v Speaker 2>I love how they just wave aside the I do

0:47:44.600 --> 0:47:47.480
<v Speaker 2>appreciate Stephanie Meyer just waves off the tropes about vampires

0:47:47.520 --> 0:47:50.360
<v Speaker 2>she's disinterested in and adds the stuff that she wants

0:47:50.560 --> 0:47:52.160
<v Speaker 2>You're like, yeah, sure, it's your book.

0:47:52.200 --> 0:47:54.920
<v Speaker 1>I guess She's like, they can be out in the daylight.

0:47:55.040 --> 0:47:56.800
<v Speaker 1>It's just that their skin is sparkly.

0:47:57.040 --> 0:48:00.200
<v Speaker 2>They just have this body glitter kind of thing.

0:48:00.520 --> 0:48:01.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, exactly.

0:48:01.920 --> 0:48:04.520
<v Speaker 1>And they're also Professor Xavier from x Men.

0:48:06.480 --> 0:48:09.640
<v Speaker 2>I've never seen an x man. Wow, I'm not like

0:48:10.360 --> 0:48:12.680
<v Speaker 2>you've never seen an x man. Oh, I was gonna say,

0:48:12.680 --> 0:48:15.799
<v Speaker 2>I made a special note in a very late two

0:48:15.840 --> 0:48:21.000
<v Speaker 2>thousand's not. The Papyris font is indeed featured in oh

0:48:21.120 --> 0:48:23.719
<v Speaker 2>Bella's googling sequence, which it wouldn't have been in two

0:48:23.760 --> 0:48:26.480
<v Speaker 2>thousand and eight if she hadn't come across you know,

0:48:26.600 --> 0:48:32.920
<v Speaker 2>homespun HTML layout papyrus font website. So I appreciated that.

0:48:32.400 --> 0:48:34.600
<v Speaker 1>That was important visibility.

0:48:34.960 --> 0:48:38.520
<v Speaker 2>Yes for the papyrus part. Well, No, the papyrus font's

0:48:38.560 --> 0:48:40.680
<v Speaker 2>one year away from being the avatar logo. So the

0:48:40.719 --> 0:48:43.640
<v Speaker 2>Papyrus font did oh perfectly fine for herself.

0:48:43.920 --> 0:48:48.600
<v Speaker 1>True. Okay, So one day at school, Bella and Edward

0:48:48.920 --> 0:48:53.480
<v Speaker 1>go into the nearby woods together and she's like, so,

0:48:54.120 --> 0:48:59.560
<v Speaker 1>you're a vampire, right, and he's like TI, yes, and

0:48:59.600 --> 0:49:02.680
<v Speaker 1>she's like, don't worry, I'm not afraid of you. Even

0:49:02.719 --> 0:49:06.480
<v Speaker 1>though you desperately want to kill me and drink my blood.

0:49:07.000 --> 0:49:10.160
<v Speaker 1>You're a killing machine who has previously murdered people.

0:49:10.840 --> 0:49:12.360
<v Speaker 2>This is the skin of a killer Bella.

0:49:12.840 --> 0:49:16.440
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah that light I so, y'all. I didn't tell you,

0:49:16.480 --> 0:49:18.440
<v Speaker 3>but I'm wearing a shirt. This is the skin of

0:49:18.480 --> 0:49:21.160
<v Speaker 3>a killer. I will show you. It has like the

0:49:21.360 --> 0:49:27.680
<v Speaker 3>meme of Probert Pattinson. Incredible And yeah, it's a T

0:49:27.800 --> 0:49:29.560
<v Speaker 3>shirt and I made it into a half shirt because

0:49:29.760 --> 0:49:31.480
<v Speaker 3>I love me some half shirts. And this isn't the

0:49:31.480 --> 0:49:34.680
<v Speaker 3>only Twilight half shirt that I own. I also own

0:49:35.200 --> 0:49:40.600
<v Speaker 3>one that is New Moon based. It's the scene where

0:49:40.840 --> 0:49:43.600
<v Speaker 3>Jacob says, Bella, where the hell have you been? Loca?

0:49:43.800 --> 0:49:46.560
<v Speaker 2>Yes, that is that half shirt.

0:49:46.680 --> 0:49:50.600
<v Speaker 3>So yeah, I do rock some some Twilight apparel still,

0:49:50.680 --> 0:49:52.400
<v Speaker 3>even though it's not a Team Edward shirt.

0:49:53.239 --> 0:49:55.960
<v Speaker 2>Our producer Sophie is a big fan or like was

0:49:55.960 --> 0:49:58.600
<v Speaker 2>a huge twyhard back in the day, and they recently

0:49:59.120 --> 0:50:04.239
<v Speaker 2>screened near her and the like the whole audience in

0:50:04.400 --> 0:50:09.600
<v Speaker 2>Unison did the bello where have you been? Look up together? Ah.

0:50:09.719 --> 0:50:12.719
<v Speaker 2>There is something just so powerful about the memes that

0:50:12.840 --> 0:50:15.479
<v Speaker 2>keep us together. This is the skin of a killer Bella.

0:50:15.840 --> 0:50:19.960
<v Speaker 2>That line read really holds up. It's so funny.

0:50:20.320 --> 0:50:23.600
<v Speaker 3>She's like, you're beautiful skins like diamonds.

0:50:23.360 --> 0:50:27.839
<v Speaker 2>Diamonds, everything about me draws you in. Like, we'll talk

0:50:27.880 --> 0:50:30.239
<v Speaker 2>about like how Robert Pattinson, I feel like, almost in

0:50:30.440 --> 0:50:34.120
<v Speaker 2>a defensive way, came out against the Twilight movies because

0:50:34.160 --> 0:50:36.640
<v Speaker 2>he wanted to have a quote unquote serious career. In

0:50:36.719 --> 0:50:39.120
<v Speaker 2>starring in movies that are marketed at teen girls is

0:50:39.160 --> 0:50:42.200
<v Speaker 2>quote unquote unserious. And so he would sort of be like,

0:50:42.239 --> 0:50:45.640
<v Speaker 2>these movies suck, but I'm in them. They but I

0:50:45.680 --> 0:50:47.520
<v Speaker 2>hate them. But he would do it in a funny

0:50:47.600 --> 0:50:49.640
<v Speaker 2>enough way that it's hard for me to be mad

0:50:49.640 --> 0:50:54.640
<v Speaker 2>at him. But yeah, imagine having to perform that monologue.

0:50:55.040 --> 0:51:00.000
<v Speaker 2>It's really really wild that he basically pulls it up.

0:51:01.080 --> 0:51:06.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So now Bella and Edward are irrevocably in love

0:51:06.280 --> 0:51:10.160
<v Speaker 1>with each other. He tells her some of his backstory,

0:51:10.239 --> 0:51:11.960
<v Speaker 1>which I forgot to write down.

0:51:12.480 --> 0:51:14.239
<v Speaker 3>He am in start of the flu Yeah, he had

0:51:14.280 --> 0:51:19.160
<v Speaker 3>Spanish influenza and Carlyle saved him and yeah bit him

0:51:19.160 --> 0:51:21.320
<v Speaker 3>and turned him into into a vampire.

0:51:21.239 --> 0:51:23.680
<v Speaker 2>Right, and something that really struck me on this And

0:51:23.719 --> 0:51:26.560
<v Speaker 2>we can we can and should talk about this later.

0:51:26.920 --> 0:51:30.399
<v Speaker 2>But that Carle. Like Carlyle's code of honor is that

0:51:30.440 --> 0:51:34.920
<v Speaker 2>he'll only turn people into vampires when they are already

0:51:35.520 --> 0:51:39.279
<v Speaker 2>about to die. But as ties into a lot of

0:51:39.320 --> 0:51:43.400
<v Speaker 2>the like undertones of white supremacy and like Mormonism specifically

0:51:44.040 --> 0:51:47.960
<v Speaker 2>in this franchise, he mysteriously only ever seems to have

0:51:48.000 --> 0:51:52.960
<v Speaker 2>an interest in saving white vampires or eventual vampires specifically,

0:51:53.200 --> 0:51:55.840
<v Speaker 2>including even though I think that this is a discussion

0:51:55.880 --> 0:51:58.080
<v Speaker 2>for a future episode because it doesn't come up I

0:51:58.120 --> 0:52:02.040
<v Speaker 2>don't think in this movie. But Jasper's fighting on the

0:52:02.080 --> 0:52:05.280
<v Speaker 2>wrong side of the Civil War canonically.

0:52:04.840 --> 0:52:06.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, he's a Confederate soldier.

0:52:07.120 --> 0:52:10.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and there is really I mean, we'll talk about

0:52:10.440 --> 0:52:12.360
<v Speaker 2>it in I don't know if it's the second or

0:52:12.440 --> 0:52:15.000
<v Speaker 2>third movie where that like there's like a full flashback

0:52:15.040 --> 0:52:19.280
<v Speaker 2>sequence I remember, and it is just not drawn attention

0:52:19.400 --> 0:52:21.760
<v Speaker 2>to as something that's wrong. And I know Princess Weeks

0:52:21.760 --> 0:52:26.279
<v Speaker 2>made a great video about how Confederate Vampire's Soldiers is

0:52:26.440 --> 0:52:32.040
<v Speaker 2>like this very scary trope that exists across vampire media.

0:52:32.560 --> 0:52:38.920
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, doctor Daddy only ever saves white people on

0:52:38.960 --> 0:52:40.720
<v Speaker 2>the verge of death.

0:52:41.760 --> 0:52:47.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so we learn that as Edward's backstory, we also

0:52:47.400 --> 0:52:51.600
<v Speaker 1>learn that the Cullens have kind of sworn this oath

0:52:51.760 --> 0:52:56.719
<v Speaker 1>to never hunt or attack or kill humans. They live

0:52:56.760 --> 0:53:00.799
<v Speaker 1>off of the blood of animals, but there are other

0:53:01.040 --> 0:53:05.520
<v Speaker 1>like vampire clans who do kill people, and that's what's

0:53:05.560 --> 0:53:08.640
<v Speaker 1>going on with James and Victoria.

0:53:08.920 --> 0:53:11.520
<v Speaker 3>And you can tell by their eye color too, of

0:53:11.560 --> 0:53:14.040
<v Speaker 3>the vampires. Their eye color, you can tell if they

0:53:14.120 --> 0:53:18.400
<v Speaker 3>are vegetarian vampires or if they hunt humans, because the

0:53:18.480 --> 0:53:22.200
<v Speaker 3>vegetarian vampires have like golden eyes, and then the human

0:53:22.280 --> 0:53:23.800
<v Speaker 3>hunting ones have red eyes.

0:53:24.280 --> 0:53:25.840
<v Speaker 2>So like, yeah, yes.

0:53:25.840 --> 0:53:32.399
<v Speaker 1>Yes, exactly. So Edward tells Bella all of this. Then

0:53:32.440 --> 0:53:35.480
<v Speaker 1>he invites her to his house to have dinner with

0:53:35.560 --> 0:53:40.239
<v Speaker 1>his vampire family. Rosalie has a little outburst about it.

0:53:40.520 --> 0:53:41.640
<v Speaker 2>She breaks a salad.

0:53:42.960 --> 0:53:47.279
<v Speaker 1>We're gonna be tension between her and Bella throughout the series.

0:53:47.520 --> 0:53:48.000
<v Speaker 3>Oh boy.

0:53:48.320 --> 0:53:53.600
<v Speaker 1>Also, Jasper is thirsty as fuck for Bella's blood, but

0:53:54.120 --> 0:53:58.320
<v Speaker 1>he's exercising restraint. Then we get the spider monkey scene.

0:53:59.000 --> 0:54:02.279
<v Speaker 2>Great that was added for the movie. Also amazing that

0:54:02.400 --> 0:54:06.360
<v Speaker 2>Robert Pattinson says it without laughing, so good.

0:54:06.680 --> 0:54:07.799
<v Speaker 3>That's a skill.

0:54:08.960 --> 0:54:11.920
<v Speaker 1>That's followed by this like montage kind of thing where

0:54:11.960 --> 0:54:15.240
<v Speaker 1>they're just sort of like canoodling in the tree tops,

0:54:15.640 --> 0:54:18.400
<v Speaker 1>as if that's like so romantic and I'm so afraid

0:54:18.400 --> 0:54:21.759
<v Speaker 1>of heights that Like I'm like, who who would find

0:54:21.800 --> 0:54:25.320
<v Speaker 1>that romantic? Like is this exciting for people?

0:54:25.600 --> 0:54:28.080
<v Speaker 3>I don't know, I would find that terrifying. Yeah.

0:54:28.160 --> 0:54:32.560
<v Speaker 2>What struck me about that scene was that presumably what's

0:54:32.600 --> 0:54:34.680
<v Speaker 2>happening in that scene is they're getting to know each

0:54:34.719 --> 0:54:37.879
<v Speaker 2>other better and they don't show us that where it's

0:54:37.920 --> 0:54:40.000
<v Speaker 2>like it would actually be I mean, and I know

0:54:40.200 --> 0:54:42.719
<v Speaker 2>to some extent and this is like ten years ago

0:54:42.800 --> 0:54:45.040
<v Speaker 2>kind of styled this course around Twilight, but I think

0:54:45.080 --> 0:54:47.760
<v Speaker 2>it would be nice to see them have more conversations

0:54:47.800 --> 0:54:51.760
<v Speaker 2>to lock in what connects them as people.

0:54:51.640 --> 0:54:54.120
<v Speaker 1>Why they like each other, right, Like.

0:54:54.120 --> 0:54:56.520
<v Speaker 2>That's not too much to ask of a romance story.

0:54:56.880 --> 0:54:58.799
<v Speaker 2>And it was like, I think we were watching that

0:54:58.800 --> 0:55:02.320
<v Speaker 2>scene happening, like we were far away, we couldn't hear it.

0:55:02.440 --> 0:55:04.799
<v Speaker 2>It's like, oh, I would have loved to know what

0:55:04.880 --> 0:55:08.520
<v Speaker 2>they would what Bella would talk about? Yeah, no, I

0:55:08.640 --> 0:55:11.480
<v Speaker 2>read this is so many questions about Twilight if you

0:55:11.520 --> 0:55:14.399
<v Speaker 2>google them lead to a Reddit post from five years ago,

0:55:14.520 --> 0:55:17.320
<v Speaker 2>and this one is no exception. But later on, Stephanie

0:55:17.360 --> 0:55:22.160
<v Speaker 2>Meyer would write sort of rewrite Twilight from Edward's perspective,

0:55:22.200 --> 0:55:25.520
<v Speaker 2>called Midnight Sun. I almost was like, should I read it?

0:55:25.560 --> 0:55:27.839
<v Speaker 2>And then I saw it was a thirty six hour

0:55:27.880 --> 0:55:31.520
<v Speaker 2>long audiobook, and then I thought, maybe I know, there's

0:55:31.520 --> 0:55:33.120
<v Speaker 2>only so many days of your life.

0:55:34.080 --> 0:55:34.279
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:55:34.560 --> 0:55:38.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, But I guess in that she does get into

0:55:38.440 --> 0:55:41.280
<v Speaker 2>some of the conversations she has that Bella has with Edward,

0:55:41.280 --> 0:55:43.680
<v Speaker 2>and she at one point gives her list of favorite

0:55:43.719 --> 0:55:47.680
<v Speaker 2>movies and books, which are baffling given Bella's personality. She

0:55:47.680 --> 0:55:52.520
<v Speaker 2>says her favorite movie is Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Interesting,

0:55:52.920 --> 0:55:55.239
<v Speaker 2>which is coming from a character I don't think we

0:55:55.280 --> 0:55:59.080
<v Speaker 2>ever see laugh, is like so confusing. I was like,

0:55:59.120 --> 0:56:00.200
<v Speaker 2>there's no way.

0:56:00.440 --> 0:56:00.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:56:01.000 --> 0:56:03.839
<v Speaker 2>Anyways, I guess in the source material in the book,

0:56:03.880 --> 0:56:06.320
<v Speaker 2>we find out that she reads Jane Austen books, which

0:56:06.600 --> 0:56:09.120
<v Speaker 2>you know, they're great books, but there couldn't be a

0:56:09.320 --> 0:56:15.920
<v Speaker 2>more bland thing assigned to a teenage girl character than

0:56:16.160 --> 0:56:17.680
<v Speaker 2>likes Jane Austen books.

0:56:20.239 --> 0:56:24.880
<v Speaker 1>Oh okay, So then there's a scene where Bella introduces

0:56:25.040 --> 0:56:31.520
<v Speaker 1>Edward to Charlie Swan, her dad, and Charlie's like, you

0:56:31.640 --> 0:56:36.759
<v Speaker 1>better watch out, young man, I've got a gun. Then

0:56:36.800 --> 0:56:40.840
<v Speaker 1>we get the baseball scene, which is an amazing scene,

0:56:41.040 --> 0:56:45.959
<v Speaker 1>mostly because it is seven people total playing baseball, which

0:56:46.000 --> 0:56:48.680
<v Speaker 1>is not enough people to play baseball.

0:56:49.200 --> 0:56:51.840
<v Speaker 2>And here's two referees but not enough player.

0:56:52.080 --> 0:56:54.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they don't even let Bella play because she's too slow,

0:56:55.000 --> 0:56:58.480
<v Speaker 1>so they make her be the umpire. But anyway, this

0:56:58.520 --> 0:57:01.920
<v Speaker 1>is when the bad vampires show up. They want to

0:57:02.000 --> 0:57:04.080
<v Speaker 1>join in the fun. They want to play baseball, it's

0:57:04.120 --> 0:57:09.239
<v Speaker 1>America's pastime. But they notice that a human is among them.

0:57:09.320 --> 0:57:15.880
<v Speaker 1>They smell Bella's like blood for something or human flesh,

0:57:15.960 --> 0:57:20.320
<v Speaker 1>and James in particular wants to just eat Bella to

0:57:20.560 --> 0:57:24.360
<v Speaker 1>death and he is now going to hunt her down.

0:57:25.200 --> 0:57:29.640
<v Speaker 1>So Edward and Bella have to leave to lure James

0:57:29.760 --> 0:57:32.920
<v Speaker 1>away so that they can basically eventually kill him. They

0:57:32.960 --> 0:57:36.800
<v Speaker 1>have to cut him up into pieces and burn the pieces.

0:57:36.760 --> 0:57:39.480
<v Speaker 2>Right, which is always like there's always these like suggestions

0:57:39.520 --> 0:57:42.160
<v Speaker 2>of violence like that in Twilight, but they never like

0:57:42.200 --> 0:57:45.160
<v Speaker 2>they ordinarily don't really have at least in the first movie.

0:57:45.640 --> 0:57:47.880
<v Speaker 2>There's a lot of like, I'm gonna do this, but

0:57:47.920 --> 0:57:51.920
<v Speaker 2>then it happens off screen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because Mormons.

0:57:53.640 --> 0:57:57.440
<v Speaker 1>So then there's a scene where Bella and Edward are fleeing,

0:57:57.560 --> 0:57:59.919
<v Speaker 1>Bella goes home and like has to hurt her dad

0:58:00.520 --> 0:58:06.560
<v Speaker 1>feelings to protect him. Then Bella and Edward split up

0:58:06.720 --> 0:58:11.919
<v Speaker 1>to hopefully trick James into following. Edward and Bella goes

0:58:11.920 --> 0:58:15.240
<v Speaker 1>off with Alice and Jasper all the way to Phoenix,

0:58:15.960 --> 0:58:20.040
<v Speaker 1>where Bella receives a call from her mother, who James

0:58:20.160 --> 0:58:24.240
<v Speaker 1>has kidnapped, and James tells her to meet him at

0:58:24.240 --> 0:58:29.000
<v Speaker 1>her old ballet studio. Now Bella shows up, learns that

0:58:29.080 --> 0:58:33.080
<v Speaker 1>her mom was not actually kidnapped, it's just James there,

0:58:33.680 --> 0:58:38.360
<v Speaker 1>and he's like taunting her and throwing her around. She

0:58:38.440 --> 0:58:42.640
<v Speaker 1>gets badly injured and she's bleeding, and Edward shows up

0:58:42.680 --> 0:58:46.960
<v Speaker 1>and he and James fight a bit. James bites Bella

0:58:47.480 --> 0:58:52.240
<v Speaker 1>and his vampire venom is coursing through her veins.

0:58:52.200 --> 0:58:56.400
<v Speaker 2>And it hurts, but it hurts so good question mark. Yeah,

0:58:56.600 --> 0:58:58.760
<v Speaker 2>the gnarliest moment in this movie to me is always

0:58:58.800 --> 0:59:05.040
<v Speaker 2>when pony Hill vampire break Bella's leg like that. That

0:59:05.160 --> 0:59:09.240
<v Speaker 2>to me is like the actual scariest part of the movie.

0:59:09.280 --> 0:59:12.560
<v Speaker 2>It's so yeah, But then how would she go to

0:59:13.400 --> 0:59:17.040
<v Speaker 2>prom without her quirky leg cast, So in a way,

0:59:17.240 --> 0:59:20.920
<v Speaker 2>it had to happen ponytail vampire had to do so

0:59:20.960 --> 0:59:22.880
<v Speaker 2>she could look quirky or from.

0:59:22.640 --> 0:59:26.320
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yes, But before that happens, the rest of the

0:59:26.400 --> 0:59:30.040
<v Speaker 1>Cullens show up to deal with James and they kill

0:59:30.120 --> 0:59:34.520
<v Speaker 1>him off screen. Meanwhile, Edward goes to suck the venom

0:59:34.880 --> 0:59:38.440
<v Speaker 1>out of Bella, but oh no, will he be able

0:59:38.520 --> 0:59:42.360
<v Speaker 1>to show restraint and stop in time, or will he

0:59:43.160 --> 0:59:46.960
<v Speaker 1>suck all the blood out of her and kill her.

0:59:47.200 --> 0:59:52.480
<v Speaker 2>And give him vampire blue balls? Yeah, this movie is

0:59:52.560 --> 0:59:53.920
<v Speaker 2>so edgy.

0:59:53.960 --> 0:59:58.200
<v Speaker 1>Well, he manages not to bust a nut or whatever

0:59:58.200 --> 0:59:59.880
<v Speaker 1>the metaphor is, and Bella live.

1:00:00.360 --> 1:00:00.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1:00:00.760 --> 1:00:03.240
<v Speaker 1>She wakes up in the hospital. Her mom is there.

1:00:03.840 --> 1:00:07.720
<v Speaker 1>Bella doesn't remember what happens, so or she I don't

1:00:07.720 --> 1:00:09.680
<v Speaker 1>know if she's like pretending not to or what. But

1:00:09.720 --> 1:00:14.600
<v Speaker 1>her mom relays the story that the Cullens probably told her,

1:00:14.640 --> 1:00:17.680
<v Speaker 1>which is that Bella fell down two flights of stairs,

1:00:18.160 --> 1:00:20.840
<v Speaker 1>broke her leg, and crashed through a window.

1:00:21.040 --> 1:00:25.400
<v Speaker 2>Okay, if I'm Bella's mom, I'm like, excuse me, Like

1:00:25.720 --> 1:00:29.440
<v Speaker 2>how But I think that because that same excuse is

1:00:29.480 --> 1:00:31.640
<v Speaker 2>given in the book. If I'm remembering correctly, it's a

1:00:31.760 --> 1:00:34.000
<v Speaker 2>very long book. But I was like, is that why

1:00:34.040 --> 1:00:37.640
<v Speaker 2>they mentioned that she's so prone to falling because people

1:00:37.680 --> 1:00:41.280
<v Speaker 2>have to believe this ridiculous story that she could just

1:00:41.400 --> 1:00:47.520
<v Speaker 2>fall down two flights, like a Looney Tune style fall. Sure, Renee,

1:00:47.680 --> 1:00:51.640
<v Speaker 2>I'm not her fan. If Renee has one fan, it's

1:00:51.720 --> 1:00:56.160
<v Speaker 2>not me, it's not you. I like, your daughter's a junior.

1:00:56.240 --> 1:00:59.120
<v Speaker 2>You can wait two years to go on the road

1:00:59.400 --> 1:01:03.080
<v Speaker 2>with your sorry whatever. But like, if I was a

1:01:03.200 --> 1:01:05.200
<v Speaker 2>teen girl and my mom was like, actually I'm going

1:01:05.200 --> 1:01:07.720
<v Speaker 2>off to fuck this guy, I'd be like, all right, well,

1:01:08.760 --> 1:01:10.080
<v Speaker 2>I hate you, you know.

1:01:12.520 --> 1:01:17.120
<v Speaker 1>But now her mom is encouraging her to move to Jacksonville, Florida,

1:01:17.160 --> 1:01:20.440
<v Speaker 1>to like hang out with her mom and her new husband,

1:01:21.520 --> 1:01:24.080
<v Speaker 1>and Bella's like, no, I want to stay in Forks.

1:01:24.480 --> 1:01:27.040
<v Speaker 1>But Edward is like, no, Bella, that's a good idea.

1:01:27.160 --> 1:01:32.040
<v Speaker 1>Actually you are safer away from me, and you should move.

1:01:32.520 --> 1:01:35.439
<v Speaker 1>And she's like, no, I'm never leaving you and you

1:01:35.480 --> 1:01:39.080
<v Speaker 1>can never leave me, So don't say things like that,

1:01:40.400 --> 1:01:44.440
<v Speaker 1>and that's love. And we cut to prom and Bella

1:01:44.520 --> 1:01:48.680
<v Speaker 1>and Edward are there together. Jacob just kind of randomly

1:01:48.680 --> 1:01:49.960
<v Speaker 1>pops out of the woods.

1:01:50.560 --> 1:01:53.680
<v Speaker 2>He walks out of the woods. They did not do

1:01:53.800 --> 1:01:57.000
<v Speaker 2>a good job of making it like Why can't we

1:01:57.000 --> 1:01:59.320
<v Speaker 2>see him get out of a car? Why is he

1:01:59.400 --> 1:02:01.960
<v Speaker 2>have to I know that he's probably I know, I

1:02:02.000 --> 1:02:04.760
<v Speaker 2>know that that's what they're implying, but it looks so silly.

1:02:04.840 --> 1:02:06.040
<v Speaker 1>It's goofy as hell.

1:02:06.520 --> 1:02:09.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's so silly. I love it.

1:02:09.080 --> 1:02:11.040
<v Speaker 3>And he like dresses up. He's like wearing a button

1:02:11.040 --> 1:02:13.520
<v Speaker 3>down shirt and tie, like rolls up sleeves and.

1:02:13.600 --> 1:02:15.760
<v Speaker 1>Stuff, as if he's about to go to prom. But

1:02:15.880 --> 1:02:17.280
<v Speaker 1>he's not a question.

1:02:17.360 --> 1:02:19.960
<v Speaker 2>She's like, no, my dad gave me twenty dollars and

1:02:20.000 --> 1:02:21.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, okay.

1:02:21.920 --> 1:02:25.120
<v Speaker 1>He's like, my dad paid me to tell you to

1:02:25.280 --> 1:02:29.120
<v Speaker 1>break up with Edward and that will be watching you.

1:02:30.120 --> 1:02:32.720
<v Speaker 1>And we're like cool, cool, cool, tight tight tight.

1:02:33.280 --> 1:02:36.400
<v Speaker 2>At very least in the book, Jacob like they danced

1:02:36.480 --> 1:02:40.120
<v Speaker 2>together and there's like a clearer friendship established, and not

1:02:40.160 --> 1:02:42.880
<v Speaker 2>what happens in the movie, which is like Edward appearing

1:02:42.880 --> 1:02:45.760
<v Speaker 2>out of nowhere and being like, get away from me,

1:02:46.120 --> 1:02:49.480
<v Speaker 2>and then they gave each other like Bruti boy eyes

1:02:49.920 --> 1:02:52.600
<v Speaker 2>monster boy eyes, and then Jacob walks back into the

1:02:52.640 --> 1:02:55.520
<v Speaker 2>woods like that's where.

1:02:55.360 --> 1:02:55.880
<v Speaker 1>He came from.

1:02:56.280 --> 1:02:59.840
<v Speaker 3>So I hope he got that twenty dollars.

1:03:01.640 --> 1:03:04.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I hope. At very least because it's like,

1:03:04.320 --> 1:03:07.720
<v Speaker 2>that's a very humiliating task to dispatch your sixteen year

1:03:07.720 --> 1:03:08.480
<v Speaker 2>old son to do.

1:03:10.040 --> 1:03:14.600
<v Speaker 1>Anyway, So then Bella and Edward are slow dancing and

1:03:15.080 --> 1:03:17.760
<v Speaker 1>she's like, you should have let me become a vampire

1:03:17.960 --> 1:03:21.680
<v Speaker 1>so that I can be like you. And he's like, no,

1:03:21.760 --> 1:03:24.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm not gonna let you be a monster, and she's like,

1:03:24.520 --> 1:03:27.320
<v Speaker 1>but this is what I want, and so he moves

1:03:27.400 --> 1:03:31.480
<v Speaker 1>like he's about to bite her neck, but JK, he's

1:03:31.560 --> 1:03:37.280
<v Speaker 1>just teasing slash edging her. And the movie ends with

1:03:37.400 --> 1:03:43.080
<v Speaker 1>a shot of Victoria, the bad vampire who's James's his girlfriend,

1:03:44.000 --> 1:03:47.680
<v Speaker 1>leering at Bella and Edward from a distance because she

1:03:47.840 --> 1:03:52.680
<v Speaker 1>wants revenge, and that's partly going to be what some

1:03:52.720 --> 1:03:53.840
<v Speaker 1>of the other movies are about.

1:03:53.920 --> 1:03:57.480
<v Speaker 2>I think maybe I was really bummed I forgot that

1:03:57.520 --> 1:04:01.520
<v Speaker 2>the Vultore don't show up in this movie because they're

1:04:02.000 --> 1:04:05.160
<v Speaker 2>so funny. They're the funniest part of all of the

1:04:05.240 --> 1:04:08.240
<v Speaker 2>vivies where they're because it's just like this didn't fully

1:04:08.280 --> 1:04:12.200
<v Speaker 2>connect for me until like going through the Twilight rehash

1:04:12.240 --> 1:04:14.280
<v Speaker 2>discourse that's happened in the last five years. But it's

1:04:14.360 --> 1:04:18.120
<v Speaker 2>just how Stephanie Meyer views Catholic people, which is like

1:04:20.480 --> 1:04:23.880
<v Speaker 2>gay and evil No, Italian gay and evil.

1:04:24.160 --> 1:04:25.560
<v Speaker 3>Yes, it's just so.

1:04:25.600 --> 1:04:29.040
<v Speaker 2>Weird, I forget. Yeah, yeah, but you're gonna have to

1:04:29.040 --> 1:04:32.880
<v Speaker 2>wait for Dakota Fanning Italian villain.

1:04:33.440 --> 1:04:38.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yes, indeed. So yeah, that's the movie. Let's take

1:04:38.040 --> 1:04:40.560
<v Speaker 1>a quick break and we'll come back to discuss.

1:04:50.320 --> 1:04:54.720
<v Speaker 2>And we're back, Daneli, I want to sort of pass

1:04:54.800 --> 1:04:56.880
<v Speaker 2>the buck to you here. Where would you like to

1:04:56.920 --> 1:05:00.680
<v Speaker 2>start with discourse of Twilight.

1:05:01.240 --> 1:05:03.800
<v Speaker 3>I don't know, I don't know. Where's what it feels

1:05:03.800 --> 1:05:05.920
<v Speaker 3>like a good place to start, as far as like

1:05:06.200 --> 1:05:08.320
<v Speaker 3>things that you all wanted to cover as well.

1:05:08.680 --> 1:05:10.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, I think we didn't mention this, Caitlin,

1:05:11.000 --> 1:05:15.520
<v Speaker 2>but we also during actually during Lockdown, I want to

1:05:15.520 --> 1:05:19.120
<v Speaker 2>say it was summer twenty twenty, we did a fundraiser

1:05:19.160 --> 1:05:22.320
<v Speaker 2>where we did a reading of the Twilight script with

1:05:22.440 --> 1:05:25.760
<v Speaker 2>past guests from the show. Jess Berwin was a part

1:05:25.880 --> 1:05:31.720
<v Speaker 2>of that conversation, and they and many Native writers have

1:05:32.040 --> 1:05:36.880
<v Speaker 2>been intensely and rightfully critical of the way that Twilight

1:05:36.960 --> 1:05:40.120
<v Speaker 2>presents indigenous culture, which I think we reference in our

1:05:40.160 --> 1:05:43.560
<v Speaker 2>first episode, but certainly not in depth because we were

1:05:43.560 --> 1:05:46.480
<v Speaker 2>also under educated on the issue at the time, So

1:05:47.400 --> 1:05:49.560
<v Speaker 2>I think that's a good starting point. And then also

1:05:49.920 --> 1:05:52.640
<v Speaker 2>just again for our listener's reference, we're not going to

1:05:52.640 --> 1:05:56.720
<v Speaker 2>get into every facet of that in this particular episode,

1:05:56.720 --> 1:06:00.640
<v Speaker 2>because I believe that it's New Moon that really kind

1:06:00.640 --> 1:06:05.960
<v Speaker 2>of doubles and triples down on these really dangerous tropes

1:06:06.040 --> 1:06:10.240
<v Speaker 2>around indigenous people, and Jacob is not in this movie

1:06:10.320 --> 1:06:13.400
<v Speaker 2>very much. But I think that it is at least

1:06:13.840 --> 1:06:20.200
<v Speaker 2>to me like the unequivocally valid criticism of this franchise.

1:06:20.920 --> 1:06:25.280
<v Speaker 1>Yes, friend of the show Ali Noddy has spoken about

1:06:25.320 --> 1:06:29.640
<v Speaker 1>this in depth, and I've learned an awful lot from

1:06:30.120 --> 1:06:33.000
<v Speaker 1>posts that she's made and videos that she's made.

1:06:33.080 --> 1:06:36.320
<v Speaker 2>She made a great video essay on the topic, definitely.

1:06:36.440 --> 1:06:41.919
<v Speaker 1>So Yeah, the glaring thing here because this movie does

1:06:41.960 --> 1:06:46.720
<v Speaker 1>go a little bit into some of the lore that's

1:06:46.880 --> 1:06:50.720
<v Speaker 1>basically at foreshadows a lot of what happens in New Moon.

1:06:50.800 --> 1:06:55.360
<v Speaker 1>But there's a scene where Jacob Black again played by

1:06:55.640 --> 1:07:00.120
<v Speaker 1>a non indigenous actor. He is a member of the

1:07:00.280 --> 1:07:04.760
<v Speaker 1>Quillute Nation. The character is again not the actor, and.

1:07:04.680 --> 1:07:08.640
<v Speaker 2>The Quiliate nation really does live in Lapushe. I think

1:07:08.680 --> 1:07:11.200
<v Speaker 2>at the time that the movie came out, there were

1:07:11.480 --> 1:07:13.800
<v Speaker 2>only about seven hundred members of the nation, so it's

1:07:13.800 --> 1:07:16.000
<v Speaker 2>also a quite small nation.

1:07:16.560 --> 1:07:22.400
<v Speaker 1>Yes, So what we learned from this movie is and

1:07:22.440 --> 1:07:26.040
<v Speaker 1>this is something that Jacob mentions, but that his people

1:07:26.200 --> 1:07:32.240
<v Speaker 1>are descended from wolves, which is part of Quiliute mythology,

1:07:32.360 --> 1:07:35.240
<v Speaker 1>like that's part of the creation story. But basically what

1:07:35.320 --> 1:07:39.480
<v Speaker 1>happened is that Stephanie Meyer probably did one second of research,

1:07:40.200 --> 1:07:46.120
<v Speaker 1>learned that and then basically conflated that with Quillute people

1:07:46.360 --> 1:07:48.120
<v Speaker 1>are where wolves.

1:07:48.200 --> 1:07:50.520
<v Speaker 2>Right to like serve the pre which again it's just

1:07:51.240 --> 1:07:53.800
<v Speaker 2>I mean, there's so many issues with how Stephanie Meyer

1:07:53.880 --> 1:07:59.120
<v Speaker 2>dealt with writing a Qualiute character in general, but the

1:07:59.200 --> 1:08:04.240
<v Speaker 2>fact that she's also like equivocating a very real group

1:08:04.600 --> 1:08:08.200
<v Speaker 2>of people with a completely made up group of people,

1:08:08.680 --> 1:08:13.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, inventing a treaty that is presented very matter

1:08:13.040 --> 1:08:16.439
<v Speaker 2>of factly, as if most of the treaties that have

1:08:16.640 --> 1:08:19.800
<v Speaker 2>been quote unquote made with indigenous tribes have not been

1:08:19.840 --> 1:08:23.840
<v Speaker 2>completely disrespected or later renegged on. The movie has no

1:08:23.880 --> 1:08:26.559
<v Speaker 2>interest in this. I also was reading that she didn't.

1:08:26.760 --> 1:08:28.719
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it reminds me of how we talked about

1:08:28.840 --> 1:08:32.040
<v Speaker 2>Robert Eggers in the vivich oh where there was that

1:08:32.160 --> 1:08:34.719
<v Speaker 2>interview he did where they're like, how did you research

1:08:34.800 --> 1:08:36.719
<v Speaker 2>the movie? And he's like, I went to the library

1:08:36.760 --> 1:08:40.599
<v Speaker 2>one day like that, and that was all he admitted

1:08:40.600 --> 1:08:43.400
<v Speaker 2>to doing. She does seem to be borrowing from the

1:08:44.240 --> 1:08:47.519
<v Speaker 2>Robert Egger's School of Higher Education and that she clearly

1:08:47.520 --> 1:08:52.880
<v Speaker 2>googled a couple of things, never consulted with the quil Nation, right,

1:08:53.000 --> 1:08:57.120
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't seem like visited, like did no due diligence

1:08:58.120 --> 1:09:01.000
<v Speaker 2>in writing that character. And that also she still somehow

1:09:01.040 --> 1:09:05.439
<v Speaker 2>got it wrong where I'm pretty sure that at least

1:09:05.479 --> 1:09:07.439
<v Speaker 2>I was seeing this because there's been a lot of

1:09:07.800 --> 1:09:11.160
<v Speaker 2>art exhibits and pieces written about it that the tribe

1:09:11.200 --> 1:09:14.920
<v Speaker 2>is said to have been turned to people from wolves

1:09:15.040 --> 1:09:19.080
<v Speaker 2>and not like it's not a back and forth thing, correct,

1:09:19.439 --> 1:09:23.320
<v Speaker 2>So she's just projecting, you know whatever, making everything work

1:09:23.439 --> 1:09:25.479
<v Speaker 2>in favor of the story. The thing that stood out

1:09:25.520 --> 1:09:29.759
<v Speaker 2>to me and the Taylor Lotner thing is absolutely glaring.

1:09:30.000 --> 1:09:32.599
<v Speaker 2>And there's also this very I think it was more

1:09:32.760 --> 1:09:34.639
<v Speaker 2>in the New Moon press cycle, so we can talk

1:09:34.640 --> 1:09:37.120
<v Speaker 2>about it more in that episode. But there was a

1:09:37.280 --> 1:09:41.400
<v Speaker 2>like round of discourse where Taylor Latner did like a

1:09:41.520 --> 1:09:44.439
<v Speaker 2>round of press where he was like, actually, I do

1:09:45.240 --> 1:09:48.280
<v Speaker 2>have some indigenous heritage. I just didn't know before. And

1:09:48.320 --> 1:09:51.880
<v Speaker 2>on my mom's side, I have some indigenous heritage, which

1:09:51.920 --> 1:09:57.080
<v Speaker 2>is like, don't do that. Like, and he's a teenager

1:09:57.120 --> 1:10:00.240
<v Speaker 2>at the time, Like, I'm more inclined to blame the

1:10:00.280 --> 1:10:02.920
<v Speaker 2>producers of Twilight that probably put pressure on him to

1:10:02.960 --> 1:10:06.439
<v Speaker 2>do that, to put out a fire. It's all very ugly.

1:10:06.479 --> 1:10:08.639
<v Speaker 2>The thing that stuck out to me the most, though,

1:10:08.640 --> 1:10:10.479
<v Speaker 2>that I wasn't fully aware of, or I guess I

1:10:10.520 --> 1:10:15.040
<v Speaker 2>hadn't been reminded of in some time, was in terms

1:10:15.439 --> 1:10:20.320
<v Speaker 2>of how the Quali tribe was able to benefit from

1:10:20.360 --> 1:10:24.960
<v Speaker 2>the success of Twilight. There was a lot written about this.

1:10:25.080 --> 1:10:27.599
<v Speaker 2>The most in depth piece I was able to find

1:10:28.520 --> 1:10:33.519
<v Speaker 2>was in Highcountrynews dot com, which is a local paper.

1:10:33.720 --> 1:10:35.680
<v Speaker 2>It is from twenty twelve, so towards the end of

1:10:35.680 --> 1:10:40.599
<v Speaker 2>the Twilight movies, in which the Quali tribe was holding

1:10:40.640 --> 1:10:45.479
<v Speaker 2>a public powow and was inviting people to become better

1:10:45.520 --> 1:10:48.439
<v Speaker 2>acquainted with their culture. And I think we might have

1:10:48.479 --> 1:10:51.680
<v Speaker 2>talked about this years ago. But what the piece illustrates

1:10:51.800 --> 1:10:57.200
<v Speaker 2>essentially is the fact that a because the Twilight production

1:10:57.400 --> 1:11:01.760
<v Speaker 2>was not required to give the Qualia tribe any sort

1:11:01.800 --> 1:11:05.880
<v Speaker 2>of public acknowledgment or financial compensation, they opted not to,

1:11:06.680 --> 1:11:10.200
<v Speaker 2>and that this tribe, which again consists of around seven

1:11:10.280 --> 1:11:13.920
<v Speaker 2>hundred people, had to in response to the success from

1:11:13.960 --> 1:11:17.880
<v Speaker 2>Twilight and have all of a sudden all of this tourism,

1:11:18.400 --> 1:11:20.519
<v Speaker 2>which we should just link the piece because it is

1:11:20.640 --> 1:11:23.799
<v Speaker 2>very interesting. On one hand, they're like, you know, having

1:11:24.280 --> 1:11:28.120
<v Speaker 2>tourism money come in is a net positive, But on

1:11:28.160 --> 1:11:31.320
<v Speaker 2>the other hand, they're coming in because of misinformation, and

1:11:31.400 --> 1:11:35.080
<v Speaker 2>so they had to develop, you know, for a small

1:11:35.120 --> 1:11:37.800
<v Speaker 2>group of people who have been historically persecuted, they had

1:11:37.840 --> 1:11:41.840
<v Speaker 2>to develop a pr job within the nation to sort

1:11:41.840 --> 1:11:47.600
<v Speaker 2>of not overtly condemned Twilight, but also work to correct

1:11:47.720 --> 1:11:50.840
<v Speaker 2>the misinformation that Twilight had created. And it's created this

1:11:51.200 --> 1:11:56.559
<v Speaker 2>entire like net of issues. And something that isn't mentioned

1:11:56.600 --> 1:11:59.800
<v Speaker 2>in this twenty twelve piece but feels worth mentioning is

1:11:59.840 --> 1:12:02.840
<v Speaker 2>the fact of, like, why do indigenous groups have to

1:12:03.000 --> 1:12:07.800
<v Speaker 2>rely on tourism money from you know, majority non indigenous

1:12:07.800 --> 1:12:12.760
<v Speaker 2>people because of the same capitalist system that is disenfranchising

1:12:12.760 --> 1:12:14.680
<v Speaker 2>them in the first place, And it's cost all of

1:12:14.720 --> 1:12:17.599
<v Speaker 2>this genocide and the fact that that is even something

1:12:17.680 --> 1:12:21.679
<v Speaker 2>that tribes need to interface with is like the result

1:12:21.720 --> 1:12:27.040
<v Speaker 2>of something far uglier. So just I have one quick passage.

1:12:27.120 --> 1:12:28.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry, I know him going along. It's just no

1:12:29.080 --> 1:12:31.240
<v Speaker 2>I love it. This piece is I want to shout

1:12:31.240 --> 1:12:34.280
<v Speaker 2>out the writer that not an indigenous writer, but who

1:12:34.320 --> 1:12:37.400
<v Speaker 2>attended this powo and spent a lot of time and

1:12:37.600 --> 1:12:40.519
<v Speaker 2>spoke with the pr advocates. All this stuff from writer

1:12:40.640 --> 1:12:46.000
<v Speaker 2>Brint Nelson in July twenty twelve, rites the Quilliad has

1:12:46.080 --> 1:12:48.960
<v Speaker 2>struggled for centuries to retain their land and culture amid

1:12:49.000 --> 1:12:52.120
<v Speaker 2>outside threats. In eighteen eighty nine, the same year a

1:12:52.160 --> 1:12:55.799
<v Speaker 2>treaty squeezed the tribe onto a fraction of its ancestral lands.

1:12:56.000 --> 1:12:59.200
<v Speaker 2>A settler who had fraudulently claimed the remaining plots burned

1:12:59.200 --> 1:13:02.479
<v Speaker 2>all twenty six houses to the ground. By nineteen twenty,

1:13:02.640 --> 1:13:05.400
<v Speaker 2>the last of the peninsula's wolves had been poisoned, shot

1:13:05.479 --> 1:13:09.559
<v Speaker 2>or trapped, severing another vital link to the past. They

1:13:09.720 --> 1:13:14.000
<v Speaker 2>also mentioned how there are many places in the surrounding areas,

1:13:14.000 --> 1:13:17.479
<v Speaker 2>but not on their reservation or land, that profit off

1:13:17.520 --> 1:13:20.720
<v Speaker 2>of the twilight. You know what it was the word

1:13:20.880 --> 1:13:25.280
<v Speaker 2>being adjacent adjacent fairness. In twenty ten, a volunteer advisor

1:13:25.360 --> 1:13:28.439
<v Speaker 2>Angela Riley, director of the American Indian Studies Center at

1:13:28.520 --> 1:13:31.719
<v Speaker 2>UCLA wrote an editorial in The New York Times, Sucking

1:13:31.720 --> 1:13:35.840
<v Speaker 2>the Quill Dry, which blasted the ongoing exploitation. In perhaps

1:13:35.880 --> 1:13:39.040
<v Speaker 2>the worst instance, an MSN dot com film crew working

1:13:39.080 --> 1:13:43.760
<v Speaker 2>on a virtual Twilight tour filmed the reservation cemetery without permission,

1:13:44.160 --> 1:13:47.680
<v Speaker 2>pairing grainy images of the gravesites of respected elders with

1:13:47.760 --> 1:13:51.559
<v Speaker 2>a creepy soundtrack. Deeply offended, the tribe secured a quick

1:13:51.600 --> 1:13:55.080
<v Speaker 2>published ecology and removal of the footage, but the incident

1:13:55.120 --> 1:13:58.519
<v Speaker 2>prompted a new level of vigilance. Now the Quilliut Nation

1:13:58.640 --> 1:14:03.000
<v Speaker 2>has an etiquette guide and photography policy, both prominently displayed

1:14:03.120 --> 1:14:06.120
<v Speaker 2>on its website. So it's just this examination of how

1:14:06.479 --> 1:14:11.240
<v Speaker 2>this small tribe has had to respond, deal with and

1:14:11.640 --> 1:14:16.200
<v Speaker 2>try to essentially make the best of this situation that's

1:14:16.240 --> 1:14:19.519
<v Speaker 2>been thrust onto them by this franchise. And I don't know, Yeah,

1:14:19.520 --> 1:14:21.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm curious what you both feel about that. I mean,

1:14:21.760 --> 1:14:25.280
<v Speaker 2>it's obviously very gross and it takes Stephanie Meyer kind of,

1:14:25.560 --> 1:14:28.519
<v Speaker 2>I think, a very nasty amount of time to even

1:14:28.560 --> 1:14:29.240
<v Speaker 2>acknowledge this.

1:14:31.040 --> 1:14:36.560
<v Speaker 1>I had come across a piece called Truth Versus Twilight,

1:14:37.360 --> 1:14:41.559
<v Speaker 1>which was a collaboration between the Burke Museum of Natural

1:14:41.640 --> 1:14:46.400
<v Speaker 1>History and Culture and the Quilute tribe. And it goes

1:14:46.479 --> 1:14:49.479
<v Speaker 1>through a bunch of different talking points, many of which

1:14:49.600 --> 1:14:54.800
<v Speaker 1>revolve around the representation of the Quillut nation, and one

1:14:54.840 --> 1:14:58.320
<v Speaker 1>of the big points made was that the tribe received

1:14:58.840 --> 1:15:04.000
<v Speaker 1>no compensation to bite. The movie, making over four hundred

1:15:04.040 --> 1:15:07.759
<v Speaker 1>million dollars at the box office, made back its budget,

1:15:07.920 --> 1:15:11.559
<v Speaker 1>like by over tenfold, Like made so much money. Obviously

1:15:11.840 --> 1:15:16.920
<v Speaker 1>we know what a cultural phenomenon this saga is, and

1:15:17.400 --> 1:15:25.000
<v Speaker 1>the Quilli nation saw no direct compensation from that. Again,

1:15:25.439 --> 1:15:29.479
<v Speaker 1>there was no consultation that Stephanie Meyer did, and I

1:15:30.560 --> 1:15:32.960
<v Speaker 1>meant to look into this further, but I would doubt

1:15:33.160 --> 1:15:37.720
<v Speaker 1>that the film production did much in the way of consultation.

1:15:37.640 --> 1:15:42.000
<v Speaker 2>So from what I can tell, no, So there's actually

1:15:42.040 --> 1:15:47.120
<v Speaker 2>it's mentioned in this piece, okay, from the same High

1:15:47.160 --> 1:15:51.040
<v Speaker 2>Country news piece. When the Twilight craze first erupted, the

1:15:51.120 --> 1:15:55.160
<v Speaker 2>Quillia lacked a public relations contact and events coordinator and

1:15:55.400 --> 1:15:57.880
<v Speaker 2>Penn Trials, a community leader who helps run the weekly

1:15:57.920 --> 1:16:01.120
<v Speaker 2>drum and healing circle, says producer of the first movie

1:16:01.280 --> 1:16:04.639
<v Speaker 2>randomly called villagers in hopes of securing permission to film

1:16:04.680 --> 1:16:07.559
<v Speaker 2>a scene on First Beach it was ultimately shot on

1:16:07.600 --> 1:16:12.440
<v Speaker 2>the Oregon coast instead. The producers eventually visited so eventually,

1:16:12.800 --> 1:16:15.920
<v Speaker 2>well into production, the producers eventually visited La Push to

1:16:15.960 --> 1:16:19.080
<v Speaker 2>get a better sense of the community. Tribal Secretary Naomi

1:16:19.120 --> 1:16:22.639
<v Speaker 2>Jacobson says their idea of Qulio kids were upended when

1:16:22.640 --> 1:16:25.880
<v Speaker 2>they visited her cousin's home. They didn't expect them to

1:16:25.920 --> 1:16:30.320
<v Speaker 2>be modernized teenagers with iPods and we she says, So

1:16:30.960 --> 1:16:35.080
<v Speaker 2>this was just like, as with so many depictions of

1:16:35.080 --> 1:16:39.080
<v Speaker 2>Indigenous culture well into now and thankfully there has been

1:16:39.720 --> 1:16:44.400
<v Speaker 2>more representation of but nowhere near what satisfactory, as we've

1:16:44.400 --> 1:16:47.080
<v Speaker 2>talked about in many episodes. But just like this is

1:16:47.120 --> 1:16:52.479
<v Speaker 2>an overwhelmingly white crew coming in based on I'm assuming

1:16:52.560 --> 1:16:55.160
<v Speaker 2>the false version of history they learned and never re

1:16:55.240 --> 1:16:59.479
<v Speaker 2>examined in American schools. Yeah, there was no compensation given

1:16:59.479 --> 1:17:01.439
<v Speaker 2>that I was a well to find and it seems

1:17:01.479 --> 1:17:05.040
<v Speaker 2>like the first literal person to say hey, could we

1:17:05.080 --> 1:17:08.800
<v Speaker 2>come to the Push and speak with you was well

1:17:08.800 --> 1:17:11.320
<v Speaker 2>into the production of the movie, which would have been

1:17:11.640 --> 1:17:13.920
<v Speaker 2>at least three years after the book came out.

1:17:15.200 --> 1:17:18.120
<v Speaker 3>And it's like just the age old story of like

1:17:18.680 --> 1:17:25.280
<v Speaker 3>appropriation and benefiting from you know, other people's culture. It

1:17:25.400 --> 1:17:29.320
<v Speaker 3>saddens me, it outrages me that, you know, the Quiliit

1:17:29.360 --> 1:17:32.640
<v Speaker 3>people were not consulted, they were not compensated, and like

1:17:32.720 --> 1:17:35.080
<v Speaker 3>that happens so often, especially as a person of color,

1:17:35.120 --> 1:17:38.840
<v Speaker 3>like we often are not compensated for our work, for

1:17:38.920 --> 1:17:43.040
<v Speaker 3>our labor. And this could have been an opportunity for

1:17:43.439 --> 1:17:47.519
<v Speaker 3>the production crew to be educated on the Quiliad tribe

1:17:47.880 --> 1:17:51.080
<v Speaker 3>and they could have been compensated for their time and

1:17:51.120 --> 1:17:55.160
<v Speaker 3>for their information. But it is sad that the research

1:17:55.439 --> 1:17:59.000
<v Speaker 3>was well into production and Stephanie Meyer didn't do a

1:17:59.040 --> 1:18:02.640
<v Speaker 3>lot of that work on her which is again, like

1:18:02.720 --> 1:18:06.920
<v Speaker 3>I'm so outraged by that, and like I I think

1:18:07.000 --> 1:18:09.680
<v Speaker 3>that when I was younger, I didn't I didn't know

1:18:09.720 --> 1:18:14.240
<v Speaker 3>this information, yeah, you know, and I just thought about like, oh,

1:18:14.280 --> 1:18:17.880
<v Speaker 3>the romance, the story of you know, Edward and and

1:18:18.000 --> 1:18:21.160
<v Speaker 3>Bella falling in love, and there's so much I mean,

1:18:21.160 --> 1:18:24.160
<v Speaker 3>this is a problematic fave, sadly, but there's there's so

1:18:24.360 --> 1:18:29.639
<v Speaker 3>much to really dive into. And again, like so many,

1:18:29.920 --> 1:18:32.759
<v Speaker 3>so many issues that could be discussed about this movie.

1:18:33.200 --> 1:18:36.759
<v Speaker 3>And you know, the books that made this movie happen,

1:18:36.920 --> 1:18:38.760
<v Speaker 3>you know, absolutely.

1:18:38.280 --> 1:18:40.320
<v Speaker 2>I mean, and and well this is like an issue

1:18:40.360 --> 1:18:43.639
<v Speaker 2>well return to as we cover more Twilight movies, because

1:18:43.640 --> 1:18:48.080
<v Speaker 2>it's like Twilight is a problematic fave for millions of people,

1:18:49.160 --> 1:18:51.960
<v Speaker 2>and again, like we're our show is an every fun

1:18:52.040 --> 1:18:54.880
<v Speaker 2>about like if with very few exceptions, there's a few

1:18:54.920 --> 1:18:56.519
<v Speaker 2>movies where it's like, if you like this movie, you

1:18:56.600 --> 1:18:59.800
<v Speaker 2>might be a horrible person, but The Twilight is not

1:18:59.840 --> 1:19:01.880
<v Speaker 2>one of them. I don't think. I think that there

1:19:02.040 --> 1:19:05.760
<v Speaker 2>is so much important, valid criticism that was not being

1:19:05.760 --> 1:19:08.160
<v Speaker 2>had at the time that is important to have now.

1:19:08.160 --> 1:19:10.360
<v Speaker 2>And I'm I mean that's why it's like Ali Natty's

1:19:10.360 --> 1:19:15.760
<v Speaker 2>work is so wonderful and yeah, well we'll revisit that

1:19:15.880 --> 1:19:18.479
<v Speaker 2>in our New Moon episode. But just to establish like

1:19:18.920 --> 1:19:22.600
<v Speaker 2>I know for sure, I was not educated to the

1:19:22.600 --> 1:19:25.240
<v Speaker 2>point where I could have told you when this movie

1:19:25.320 --> 1:19:28.800
<v Speaker 2>came out if the Clearly tribe was a tribe that

1:19:29.320 --> 1:19:33.360
<v Speaker 2>was based on real people or not, because we're so

1:19:33.520 --> 1:19:37.960
<v Speaker 2>under educated about indigenous issues. And also, Indigenous people aren't

1:19:38.000 --> 1:19:41.080
<v Speaker 2>a monolith as this movie. I think there's a lot

1:19:41.120 --> 1:19:43.599
<v Speaker 2>of stuff in New Moon that really, you know, turns

1:19:43.720 --> 1:19:47.360
<v Speaker 2>Indigenous Americans into a monolith. So we'll go back to that.

1:19:47.560 --> 1:19:51.080
<v Speaker 2>But did anyone else have anything on that issue before

1:19:51.080 --> 1:19:54.760
<v Speaker 2>we forge ahead to the five hundred other things to

1:19:54.800 --> 1:19:56.680
<v Speaker 2>talk about.

1:19:57.280 --> 1:20:00.559
<v Speaker 1>Let's forge ahead, I suppose so well. I think a

1:20:00.600 --> 1:20:03.880
<v Speaker 1>big talking point on our first episode was the discussion

1:20:03.920 --> 1:20:10.280
<v Speaker 1>around the predatory romance between Edward and Bella being framed

1:20:10.439 --> 1:20:17.759
<v Speaker 1>as this grand, romantic, beautiful love story and the effect

1:20:17.920 --> 1:20:22.680
<v Speaker 1>that that had on its audience. Sure, now watching this

1:20:22.800 --> 1:20:27.240
<v Speaker 1>movie eight years later and like having done this podcast

1:20:27.360 --> 1:20:30.920
<v Speaker 1>for eight years and like talking about so many movies

1:20:31.479 --> 1:20:35.559
<v Speaker 1>that do just that as far as framing an abusive

1:20:35.600 --> 1:20:41.080
<v Speaker 1>relationship or a predatory romance as being romantic, watching this

1:20:41.160 --> 1:20:43.680
<v Speaker 1>again for the first time in a long time, it

1:20:43.760 --> 1:20:47.679
<v Speaker 1>felt so heavy handed to me that it almost felt

1:20:47.720 --> 1:20:52.200
<v Speaker 1>like I was watching satire or like some kind of

1:20:52.240 --> 1:20:55.240
<v Speaker 1>farcical thing, because I was like, oh my gosh, because

1:20:55.240 --> 1:20:59.040
<v Speaker 1>I think that we have come long enough of away culturally,

1:21:00.240 --> 1:21:03.559
<v Speaker 1>like the initial release of these books in these movies

1:21:04.640 --> 1:21:08.000
<v Speaker 1>that I think, or at least I hope most people

1:21:08.840 --> 1:21:13.800
<v Speaker 1>watch this relationship now and realize just how predatory it

1:21:13.840 --> 1:21:18.640
<v Speaker 1>is and they're like ooh oh, no, yeah, Because I

1:21:18.640 --> 1:21:20.920
<v Speaker 1>feel like on our first watch, I was kind of

1:21:21.000 --> 1:21:25.120
<v Speaker 1>still in the mindset of like, well, I don't know,

1:21:25.800 --> 1:21:29.920
<v Speaker 1>I've always been conditioned that if a man stalks me

1:21:30.160 --> 1:21:32.040
<v Speaker 1>and love bombs me, and.

1:21:32.160 --> 1:21:33.640
<v Speaker 2>To me, fair, I don't think that we were like,

1:21:33.680 --> 1:21:36.800
<v Speaker 2>it's actually cool that he's we weren't that brand dead

1:21:37.000 --> 1:21:38.040
<v Speaker 2>in twenty seventeen.

1:21:38.360 --> 1:21:41.920
<v Speaker 1>There no, but we were coming off of being conditioned

1:21:42.040 --> 1:21:45.519
<v Speaker 1>by other media that, at least for me, I was

1:21:45.520 --> 1:21:48.599
<v Speaker 1>like kind of still in the process of like undoing, sure,

1:21:48.880 --> 1:21:52.760
<v Speaker 1>unlearning a lot of that, and now I'm like, oh

1:21:52.840 --> 1:21:57.680
<v Speaker 1>my gosh, like WOWI wow, this seems this is so

1:21:57.800 --> 1:22:02.479
<v Speaker 1>outlandish that it feels satirical to me almost. But yeah,

1:22:02.479 --> 1:22:06.880
<v Speaker 1>I mean, obviously, there's all the things of Edward gaslighting her,

1:22:06.960 --> 1:22:13.120
<v Speaker 1>incessantly stalking her, showing up in her bedroom unannounced, watching

1:22:13.160 --> 1:22:18.160
<v Speaker 1>her sleep, love bombing her, blaming her for his reaction,

1:22:18.800 --> 1:22:23.160
<v Speaker 1>like kind of like any angry outburst he has, he's like, well,

1:22:23.200 --> 1:22:27.400
<v Speaker 1>you made me so angry. The implication that he's intrigued

1:22:27.560 --> 1:22:30.680
<v Speaker 1>by her because she's the only person whose thoughts he

1:22:30.720 --> 1:22:35.080
<v Speaker 1>can't hear, but he's still desperate to know what she's thinking.

1:22:35.280 --> 1:22:40.640
<v Speaker 1>And just like all these weird, bizarro, predatory, scary, abusive

1:22:40.920 --> 1:22:44.240
<v Speaker 1>relationship dynamics. Also that he's like one hundred years old

1:22:44.840 --> 1:22:47.840
<v Speaker 1>and she's seventeen. You know, the list goes on.

1:22:48.240 --> 1:22:52.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I mean that's honestly, the main initial criticism

1:22:52.560 --> 1:22:54.800
<v Speaker 2>that we had of this movie that doesn't hold up

1:22:54.800 --> 1:22:58.479
<v Speaker 2>for me is the age gap, because well, I do

1:22:58.560 --> 1:23:02.920
<v Speaker 2>agree that a hundred year old shouldn't date seventeen year olds.

1:23:03.840 --> 1:23:06.280
<v Speaker 2>That's not something that happens, and I don't think it's

1:23:06.320 --> 1:23:09.920
<v Speaker 2>like something that we're risk to do. I guess there

1:23:09.960 --> 1:23:11.920
<v Speaker 2>were a few things that as I was like revisiting

1:23:12.040 --> 1:23:14.760
<v Speaker 2>some of the criticisms that I pre I mean the

1:23:14.840 --> 1:23:18.360
<v Speaker 2>fact like, it's to me impossible to and this is

1:23:18.400 --> 1:23:20.400
<v Speaker 2>not a brave stance. It's impossible to look at this

1:23:20.479 --> 1:23:27.000
<v Speaker 2>relationship and be like, seems healthy. Yeah, it's definitely not.

1:23:27.840 --> 1:23:30.800
<v Speaker 2>There's absolutely stocking. The gaslighting, like you're saying, Caitlin is

1:23:30.840 --> 1:23:34.519
<v Speaker 2>like so over the top that it feels like literally

1:23:34.880 --> 1:23:37.000
<v Speaker 2>a handout of like this is what a gas lighter

1:23:37.120 --> 1:23:40.320
<v Speaker 2>might say of like you don't know what you're talking about.

1:23:40.400 --> 1:23:42.800
<v Speaker 2>You must have bonked your head, like you know, just

1:23:42.920 --> 1:23:47.519
<v Speaker 2>really really unsophisticated stuff. And the thing is, like I

1:23:47.560 --> 1:23:49.360
<v Speaker 2>still feel that way. I know that there's been a

1:23:49.360 --> 1:23:53.120
<v Speaker 2>lot of history that looks at the original backlash I

1:23:53.120 --> 1:23:55.280
<v Speaker 2>guess I'm curious, Yeah, where we all stand on that,

1:23:55.320 --> 1:23:58.360
<v Speaker 2>because there are still a lot of the initial criticisms

1:23:58.360 --> 1:24:02.240
<v Speaker 2>that I felt about this movie. I still feel like, I,

1:24:02.560 --> 1:24:04.479
<v Speaker 2>you know, I'm not gonna be like after eight years,

1:24:04.600 --> 1:24:07.000
<v Speaker 2>I think that they actually have a great relationship. And

1:24:07.080 --> 1:24:10.080
<v Speaker 2>also the thing that is never gonna sit quite right

1:24:10.120 --> 1:24:14.479
<v Speaker 2>with me, even with the reflection on some of I

1:24:14.479 --> 1:24:18.519
<v Speaker 2>think the more extreme criticisms of Twilight at the time

1:24:18.760 --> 1:24:22.040
<v Speaker 2>is that this is media that's you know, marketed at

1:24:22.120 --> 1:24:25.479
<v Speaker 2>middle schoolers and high schoolers, so it's marketed at impressionable people,

1:24:26.040 --> 1:24:31.040
<v Speaker 2>right and with all due respect to the youth, I

1:24:31.080 --> 1:24:33.680
<v Speaker 2>saw Juno and my takeaway was I have to get

1:24:33.720 --> 1:24:37.759
<v Speaker 2>pregnant right now because I like Juno and Juno was pregnant,

1:24:38.120 --> 1:24:42.040
<v Speaker 2>and so if there's even a risk that someone is

1:24:43.280 --> 1:24:47.360
<v Speaker 2>like that and this is, you know, something that you're

1:24:47.479 --> 1:24:51.400
<v Speaker 2>very emotionally invested in, I think that that is very

1:24:51.560 --> 1:24:55.160
<v Speaker 2>up for debate, despite what the intent of the author

1:24:55.240 --> 1:24:58.600
<v Speaker 2>might have been. I think that something I've moved on

1:24:59.040 --> 1:25:02.240
<v Speaker 2>is movies that a very clearly marketed and intended for

1:25:02.360 --> 1:25:06.960
<v Speaker 2>adults having unhealthy relationship dynamics, where it's like, Okay, you know,

1:25:07.040 --> 1:25:09.559
<v Speaker 2>if a movie is fully intended for adults and mainly

1:25:09.600 --> 1:25:12.240
<v Speaker 2>being consumed by adults, and you see an unhealthy relationship

1:25:12.320 --> 1:25:15.080
<v Speaker 2>dynamic and you say, I want that. To some extent,

1:25:15.160 --> 1:25:18.559
<v Speaker 2>that's on you because you're a grownup, and not every

1:25:18.560 --> 1:25:21.799
<v Speaker 2>movie can model perfect relationship dynamics, But when you're modeling

1:25:21.840 --> 1:25:26.680
<v Speaker 2>them to an audience that are probably entering their first relationships,

1:25:26.720 --> 1:25:30.120
<v Speaker 2>it is I think still right. You know, I stand

1:25:30.160 --> 1:25:32.559
<v Speaker 2>by and I think it is a valid discussion to have.

1:25:33.600 --> 1:25:37.240
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, absolutely, I think, like definitely, Like when I first

1:25:37.400 --> 1:25:40.320
<v Speaker 3>read the books, and then also when I first watched

1:25:40.320 --> 1:25:44.880
<v Speaker 3>the movie, I was completely convinced that this was a

1:25:45.200 --> 1:25:48.960
<v Speaker 3>beautiful love story. And I was convinced then too that

1:25:49.120 --> 1:25:52.880
<v Speaker 3>everything that he was doing was because he loved her,

1:25:52.920 --> 1:25:56.120
<v Speaker 3>And I didn't find it to be controlling or gas lighty.

1:25:56.840 --> 1:25:59.360
<v Speaker 3>But really, you know, what I mentioned before at the

1:25:59.400 --> 1:26:02.240
<v Speaker 3>beginning is that I grew up in a very sheltered environment.

1:26:02.400 --> 1:26:07.600
<v Speaker 3>I grew up in a religious cult, very like Pentecostal adjacent.

1:26:08.120 --> 1:26:12.960
<v Speaker 3>So the misogyny was, you know, real thick. And you know,

1:26:13.080 --> 1:26:17.120
<v Speaker 3>for me, this was not so far off from what

1:26:17.600 --> 1:26:22.200
<v Speaker 3>I had known and already experienced, so it was easy

1:26:22.240 --> 1:26:26.880
<v Speaker 3>for me to make that leap from this very religious

1:26:26.960 --> 1:26:32.040
<v Speaker 3>upbringing to then you know, Edward being very controlling and

1:26:32.479 --> 1:26:36.480
<v Speaker 3>gaslighting and stocking her. It just was an easy transition

1:26:36.560 --> 1:26:39.479
<v Speaker 3>for me. I didn't really question it, which is when

1:26:39.479 --> 1:26:42.599
<v Speaker 3>I look back at it, very scary to think about,

1:26:43.600 --> 1:26:46.599
<v Speaker 3>and you know, like it was you know, not only

1:26:47.160 --> 1:26:49.840
<v Speaker 3>was I a part of a religious system, I also

1:26:49.880 --> 1:26:53.200
<v Speaker 3>lived in an abusive household. So these were you know,

1:26:53.280 --> 1:26:57.000
<v Speaker 3>things that I was seeing often and it was just

1:26:57.120 --> 1:26:59.599
<v Speaker 3>a mirror of my own experience and that was really

1:26:59.640 --> 1:27:02.679
<v Speaker 3>all that I knew. But it's it's sad that this

1:27:02.760 --> 1:27:06.320
<v Speaker 3>is what was being sold to, you know, young girls

1:27:06.400 --> 1:27:10.280
<v Speaker 3>and being told that this is what true love looks like.

1:27:10.720 --> 1:27:13.120
<v Speaker 3>You know, if he loves you, he'll he'll follow you

1:27:13.160 --> 1:27:15.880
<v Speaker 3>and make sure that you're protected. Oh nayneh.

1:27:16.520 --> 1:27:19.880
<v Speaker 2>He'll cut you off from any potential friendship that you

1:27:19.920 --> 1:27:23.920
<v Speaker 2>could possibly have with anyone of any gender, which is

1:27:24.120 --> 1:27:27.240
<v Speaker 2>like so egregious, right exactly.

1:27:27.880 --> 1:27:32.760
<v Speaker 3>And there's just this you know codependence that they have.

1:27:32.920 --> 1:27:34.800
<v Speaker 3>I mean, thinking about like the end of the movie,

1:27:35.400 --> 1:27:40.879
<v Speaker 3>the thought of moving to Jacksonville just completely like Bella's

1:27:40.920 --> 1:27:43.679
<v Speaker 3>like freaking out. She's like absolutely like you could never

1:27:44.160 --> 1:27:47.479
<v Speaker 3>never leave me, and I think about the line in

1:27:47.520 --> 1:27:49.559
<v Speaker 3>the movie you know, so the lion fell in love

1:27:49.600 --> 1:27:54.559
<v Speaker 3>with the lamb, and it's like so so predatory in nature,

1:27:54.680 --> 1:27:57.640
<v Speaker 3>you know, he is he is a lion and she

1:27:57.920 --> 1:28:03.720
<v Speaker 3>is this this lamb, And I'm thinking about how I

1:28:03.760 --> 1:28:05.120
<v Speaker 3>don't know if you all knew, but there were a

1:28:05.160 --> 1:28:07.920
<v Speaker 3>lot of hot topic came up with like a line

1:28:07.920 --> 1:28:10.519
<v Speaker 3>of like jewelry around the movie.

1:28:10.920 --> 1:28:11.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh I bet they did.

1:28:12.720 --> 1:28:14.839
<v Speaker 3>You'll notice some of the jewelry, like in the scene

1:28:15.240 --> 1:28:19.760
<v Speaker 3>in the science class when Edward like moves the kind

1:28:19.760 --> 1:28:23.120
<v Speaker 3>of the slides over to Bella. He's wearing this like

1:28:23.240 --> 1:28:27.120
<v Speaker 3>leather bracelet with the colin like crest on it. So

1:28:27.320 --> 1:28:31.639
<v Speaker 3>hot topic was selling all of this jewelry to young kids.

1:28:32.240 --> 1:28:34.799
<v Speaker 3>So not only was there a jewelry with the crest,

1:28:34.880 --> 1:28:39.080
<v Speaker 3>there was also a pair of rings that had lion

1:28:39.360 --> 1:28:42.960
<v Speaker 3>and lamb on them. And who owned them? I did.

1:28:43.840 --> 1:28:47.360
<v Speaker 3>My first boyfriend gave them to me. And like most

1:28:47.560 --> 1:28:52.639
<v Speaker 3>like first relationships, it was not a healthy relationship at all.

1:28:52.760 --> 1:28:56.759
<v Speaker 3>There was so much you know, codependence and controlling behavior

1:28:56.920 --> 1:29:00.360
<v Speaker 3>from both of us. But we were again a part

1:29:00.360 --> 1:29:03.800
<v Speaker 3>of a system that just ingrained that in us, So

1:29:03.840 --> 1:29:08.320
<v Speaker 3>it was that much more I guess dangerous for that

1:29:08.479 --> 1:29:13.479
<v Speaker 3>message to be continually like drilled into my brain. So

1:29:13.560 --> 1:29:16.000
<v Speaker 3>like when I think about like my relationship to the

1:29:16.040 --> 1:29:20.160
<v Speaker 3>movie now, it's it's very strange, and it's layered and

1:29:20.200 --> 1:29:24.160
<v Speaker 3>it's convoluted, and I have to think about, like again

1:29:24.880 --> 1:29:30.040
<v Speaker 3>my experiences that I had before watching the movie, and

1:29:30.080 --> 1:29:32.800
<v Speaker 3>then how I was as a young adult watching this

1:29:32.960 --> 1:29:36.040
<v Speaker 3>movie thinking that this was, you know, the love that

1:29:36.080 --> 1:29:39.120
<v Speaker 3>I was chasing, and then now after as an adult,

1:29:39.479 --> 1:29:45.160
<v Speaker 3>fully understanding that that type of love is so damaging.

1:29:45.400 --> 1:29:48.680
<v Speaker 3>And I myself have been in you know, abusive relationships

1:29:48.760 --> 1:29:52.479
<v Speaker 3>later on in my adulthood where there was stocking and

1:29:52.560 --> 1:29:56.559
<v Speaker 3>like restraining orders and it was just a really really

1:29:56.560 --> 1:30:02.080
<v Speaker 3>difficult time for me. And this movie, I do feel,

1:30:02.280 --> 1:30:04.720
<v Speaker 3>like what you said, Caitlin, you have to watch it

1:30:05.280 --> 1:30:09.880
<v Speaker 3>with the eye of that this is satire. Otherwise, like

1:30:09.960 --> 1:30:15.040
<v Speaker 3>the indoctrination is again a very very damaging thing.

1:30:15.520 --> 1:30:17.920
<v Speaker 1>Right, But that's the thing, Like it only feels like

1:30:18.040 --> 1:30:22.400
<v Speaker 1>satire now in like twenty twenty five because when it

1:30:22.400 --> 1:30:24.880
<v Speaker 1>came out in two thousand and eight, right, it was

1:30:24.960 --> 1:30:27.479
<v Speaker 1>coming out in the context of this culture that's still

1:30:28.520 --> 1:30:32.840
<v Speaker 1>very much normalized this type of relationship dynamic, which is

1:30:33.240 --> 1:30:38.680
<v Speaker 1>very abusive and predatory as being actually romantic. It was

1:30:39.000 --> 1:30:43.839
<v Speaker 1>coming out in a culture that rewarded men's predatory behavior

1:30:43.960 --> 1:30:47.680
<v Speaker 1>like that. So it doesn't fly now it feels so ridiculous,

1:30:47.760 --> 1:30:51.519
<v Speaker 1>at least to me now, But in the context of

1:30:51.560 --> 1:30:56.240
<v Speaker 1>it coming out, it was different enough that it did

1:30:56.320 --> 1:31:00.280
<v Speaker 1>feel very like, oh my gosh, well this is love.

1:31:01.160 --> 1:31:03.320
<v Speaker 1>I have to model my relationship after this.

1:31:03.800 --> 1:31:07.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I hope it say something positive that this

1:31:07.320 --> 1:31:11.719
<v Speaker 2>does Riada's satire now, I really hope it does, because

1:31:12.840 --> 1:31:16.559
<v Speaker 2>I think about, even though Twilight wasn't a complete like

1:31:16.720 --> 1:31:19.160
<v Speaker 2>hallmark of my youth, I think of like, how many

1:31:19.880 --> 1:31:22.479
<v Speaker 2>abuse of dynamics that you end up with in your life,

1:31:22.479 --> 1:31:26.320
<v Speaker 2>And you're like, what was modeled to me that made

1:31:26.320 --> 1:31:29.760
<v Speaker 2>this okay? And then you can trace that up as

1:31:29.880 --> 1:31:32.120
<v Speaker 2>far as you like of like, if this is something

1:31:32.160 --> 1:31:34.760
<v Speaker 2>I saw modeled in someone in my life, what was

1:31:34.800 --> 1:31:37.439
<v Speaker 2>modeled to them? Was it? Media? Was that people? What

1:31:37.520 --> 1:31:39.360
<v Speaker 2>was it like? And you just and it's usually some

1:31:40.000 --> 1:31:44.320
<v Speaker 2>really bizarro mix of everything, like media that's withheld from

1:31:44.320 --> 1:31:46.519
<v Speaker 2>you with media that's given to you. At dynamics, you

1:31:46.560 --> 1:31:50.240
<v Speaker 2>see dynamics, you see projected like it's also very like

1:31:50.320 --> 1:31:56.639
<v Speaker 2>extremely complicated, and this is like not the relationship as

1:31:56.680 --> 1:31:59.920
<v Speaker 2>a twelve year old to aspire to like that is

1:32:00.800 --> 1:32:03.240
<v Speaker 2>so clear, and I think that that is like a

1:32:03.320 --> 1:32:05.920
<v Speaker 2>lot of who was reading this book is people who

1:32:06.000 --> 1:32:10.120
<v Speaker 2>had not you know, I generally feel like media about

1:32:10.200 --> 1:32:13.360
<v Speaker 2>seventeen year old girls is mainly being consumed by twelve

1:32:13.400 --> 1:32:16.800
<v Speaker 2>year old girls because they're looking for a model of

1:32:16.840 --> 1:32:19.560
<v Speaker 2>who do I want to become? Right and what? I

1:32:20.000 --> 1:32:22.280
<v Speaker 2>don't know. It's so tricky because I think that like

1:32:22.439 --> 1:32:25.679
<v Speaker 2>Stephanie Meyer is a piece of shit for so many reasons.

1:32:25.720 --> 1:32:30.400
<v Speaker 2>But I always sort of, I guess, struggle with all

1:32:30.479 --> 1:32:33.639
<v Speaker 2>of these cultural issues that have been around for literally

1:32:33.760 --> 1:32:38.439
<v Speaker 2>hundreds of years falling onto the back of one work

1:32:39.600 --> 1:32:43.280
<v Speaker 2>like which I do think there is a tendency to

1:32:43.479 --> 1:32:46.240
<v Speaker 2>do that I know I've definitely been guilty of. Is

1:32:46.280 --> 1:32:50.080
<v Speaker 2>like there is this very broad, clickable take of like

1:32:50.280 --> 1:32:54.400
<v Speaker 2>Twilight is making a generation of young women want to

1:32:54.560 --> 1:32:59.040
<v Speaker 2>enter abusive relationships, where it is a facet of a

1:32:59.120 --> 1:33:02.919
<v Speaker 2>much larger problem, which I feel like ties into Stephanie

1:33:03.000 --> 1:33:07.960
<v Speaker 2>Meyer's background, which is as a devout Mormon, and I

1:33:08.080 --> 1:33:14.000
<v Speaker 2>didn't know anything about Mormon culture in twenty seventeen when

1:33:14.040 --> 1:33:16.800
<v Speaker 2>we recorded this episode, and I wish I could go back,

1:33:16.880 --> 1:33:19.840
<v Speaker 2>but I can't. And I do know a lot more

1:33:19.880 --> 1:33:23.719
<v Speaker 2>about Mormonism now and about how a lot of Mormon

1:33:24.439 --> 1:33:30.400
<v Speaker 2>values are sort of telegraphed in this work, and how

1:33:30.520 --> 1:33:33.840
<v Speaker 2>Stephanie Meyer, you know, I think like a lot of

1:33:34.439 --> 1:33:36.559
<v Speaker 2>authors who are women. We literally just talked about it

1:33:36.680 --> 1:33:38.800
<v Speaker 2>last week with Judy Bloom, but she was a stay

1:33:38.800 --> 1:33:41.360
<v Speaker 2>at home mom when she wrote this book, was not

1:33:41.680 --> 1:33:45.640
<v Speaker 2>anticipated to be successful. It was wildly successful. But you

1:33:45.680 --> 1:33:47.840
<v Speaker 2>can see a lot of sort of themes of her

1:33:47.920 --> 1:33:50.280
<v Speaker 2>life come out in this book in a way that

1:33:50.360 --> 1:33:53.519
<v Speaker 2>is presented as romance, because that's how Stephanie Meyer has

1:33:53.560 --> 1:33:59.800
<v Speaker 2>been conditioned to understand romance. So the way Stephanie Meyer

1:34:00.080 --> 1:34:02.920
<v Speaker 2>talks about indigenous people is a completely different issue that

1:34:03.000 --> 1:34:06.400
<v Speaker 2>I think there's absolutely no defense of her on definitely

1:34:06.439 --> 1:34:09.280
<v Speaker 2>in the romance department. I do think that there is

1:34:09.439 --> 1:34:13.120
<v Speaker 2>a like multi generational thing going on. I don't think

1:34:13.120 --> 1:34:16.040
<v Speaker 2>Stephanie Meyer is sitting in her in like Dexter's lab,

1:34:16.960 --> 1:34:20.080
<v Speaker 2>petting a cat, being like I'm gonna write the most

1:34:20.200 --> 1:34:23.559
<v Speaker 2>toxic story ever. I do think that this, like she

1:34:23.600 --> 1:34:25.880
<v Speaker 2>would repeatedly say this is a story that came to

1:34:25.920 --> 1:34:30.760
<v Speaker 2>me in a dream, and that to some extent, this

1:34:30.880 --> 1:34:34.000
<v Speaker 2>is an expression of a fantasy that she has based

1:34:34.040 --> 1:34:36.920
<v Speaker 2>on her lived experience. As I mean, she went to

1:34:36.920 --> 1:34:41.760
<v Speaker 2>Brigham Young University, like she was full Mormon, And you

1:34:41.800 --> 1:34:45.440
<v Speaker 2>can see I think in the like edging like relationship

1:34:45.520 --> 1:34:49.080
<v Speaker 2>between Bella and Edward, through which a lot of the

1:34:50.040 --> 1:34:54.120
<v Speaker 2>violent and controlling things we're talking about comes through, are

1:34:54.280 --> 1:34:57.040
<v Speaker 2>pulled from this, Like I mean, I didn't I knew

1:34:57.120 --> 1:35:00.800
<v Speaker 2>very little about Stephanie Meyer's biography, but she met her

1:35:00.800 --> 1:35:04.360
<v Speaker 2>future husband as a child and they had this like

1:35:04.400 --> 1:35:06.360
<v Speaker 2>long standing crush on each other, but they did not

1:35:06.439 --> 1:35:11.360
<v Speaker 2>spend any time alone until they were twenty. So it's

1:35:11.400 --> 1:35:17.040
<v Speaker 2>a very like chastity until marriage kind of culture. Yeah,

1:35:17.200 --> 1:35:20.719
<v Speaker 2>you can see that in Bella and Edward very clearly,

1:35:21.439 --> 1:35:25.679
<v Speaker 2>absolutely down to the point where if he quote unquote busts,

1:35:25.840 --> 1:35:28.320
<v Speaker 2>Bella will die.

1:35:29.040 --> 1:35:31.160
<v Speaker 3>That's what happens when you have sex, you.

1:35:31.280 --> 1:35:34.960
<v Speaker 2>Die, right, like because they're not married. But then when

1:35:35.000 --> 1:35:37.120
<v Speaker 2>she's married, she becomes a vampire, and then she doesn't

1:35:37.120 --> 1:35:39.880
<v Speaker 2>die if he busts, right, but you still don't see

1:35:39.920 --> 1:35:43.160
<v Speaker 2>him bust but it's implied, you know, like it is bizarre.

1:35:43.200 --> 1:35:46.480
<v Speaker 2>I mean, and there's a lot of the contra Points

1:35:46.600 --> 1:35:48.600
<v Speaker 2>video essay that came out on this topic sort of

1:35:48.600 --> 1:35:53.439
<v Speaker 2>gets into the history of romance novels and how there

1:35:53.520 --> 1:35:56.799
<v Speaker 2>has been you know, I think those just like really

1:35:56.800 --> 1:35:59.200
<v Speaker 2>really complicated, really and it's so tricky because it's like

1:35:59.240 --> 1:36:01.160
<v Speaker 2>I I look at a lot of this and I'm like,

1:36:01.200 --> 1:36:03.519
<v Speaker 2>I still feel basically the same way I did in

1:36:03.560 --> 1:36:07.200
<v Speaker 2>twenty seventeen. I think this is a toxic relationship that

1:36:07.280 --> 1:36:11.200
<v Speaker 2>is mainly being modeled at preteens, and I don't like that.

1:36:11.240 --> 1:36:14.240
<v Speaker 2>And the one thing I do like is that this

1:36:14.320 --> 1:36:16.720
<v Speaker 2>sort of wave of pop culture gave way to like

1:36:16.800 --> 1:36:21.640
<v Speaker 2>dystopian teen fiction, which tended to have women characters in

1:36:21.880 --> 1:36:27.280
<v Speaker 2>more politically aware, active roles and not bella swan who's

1:36:27.360 --> 1:36:32.120
<v Speaker 2>like a human screensaver, no offense. But then also the

1:36:32.160 --> 1:36:37.479
<v Speaker 2>whole idea that there was this undeniable appeal to this

1:36:37.640 --> 1:36:42.240
<v Speaker 2>story to a lot of very sweet, wonderful normal people

1:36:42.720 --> 1:36:44.920
<v Speaker 2>people on this call included.

1:36:44.640 --> 1:36:48.400
<v Speaker 1>And people of multiple ages, because I mean, your mom,

1:36:49.040 --> 1:36:51.240
<v Speaker 1>yeah read these books as a full adult.

1:36:51.520 --> 1:36:55.320
<v Speaker 2>There were moms specific Twilight forums because moms didn't want

1:36:55.320 --> 1:37:00.200
<v Speaker 2>their kids knowing how they felt about Edward Cohen. This

1:37:00.240 --> 1:37:02.680
<v Speaker 2>is like the history of romance novels too, is like

1:37:02.720 --> 1:37:07.080
<v Speaker 2>there's always been an implied shame and enjoying them and

1:37:07.280 --> 1:37:11.080
<v Speaker 2>the ContraPoints video I say, God, Lover, it's so long,

1:37:11.200 --> 1:37:13.360
<v Speaker 2>but I rewatched a portion of it to get ready

1:37:13.360 --> 1:37:15.360
<v Speaker 2>for this, and the thing that stuck out to me

1:37:16.320 --> 1:37:18.479
<v Speaker 2>that kind of like shifted the way I view this

1:37:18.520 --> 1:37:23.000
<v Speaker 2>a little bit is the sort of like push and

1:37:23.080 --> 1:37:26.400
<v Speaker 2>pull that happens between and this is like a pretty

1:37:26.439 --> 1:37:31.440
<v Speaker 2>heteronal root of structure, but like of feminine fantasy versus

1:37:32.000 --> 1:37:37.400
<v Speaker 2>what men tend to take away from feminine fantasies. She

1:37:37.520 --> 1:37:41.320
<v Speaker 2>talks a lot about the idea of surrender as a

1:37:41.320 --> 1:37:45.760
<v Speaker 2>theme in romance fiction, and you know that is sort

1:37:45.760 --> 1:37:49.680
<v Speaker 2>of predicated on this idea of there is this expectation

1:37:50.720 --> 1:37:55.479
<v Speaker 2>of women to take care of everybody. And the part

1:37:55.520 --> 1:37:58.880
<v Speaker 2>of the idea behind surrender is, you know, while it

1:37:58.960 --> 1:38:02.880
<v Speaker 2>does read as someone telling you what to do, it

1:38:02.920 --> 1:38:05.280
<v Speaker 2>can be interpreted and a lot of the appeal of it,

1:38:05.320 --> 1:38:09.439
<v Speaker 2>based on research, is the idea of not having to

1:38:09.520 --> 1:38:13.720
<v Speaker 2>do things for everybody, and that explains a lot of

1:38:13.760 --> 1:38:18.280
<v Speaker 2>the moms who are into this. Right, is like someone

1:38:18.320 --> 1:38:21.559
<v Speaker 2>who spends a lot of their time, likely because of

1:38:21.600 --> 1:38:24.080
<v Speaker 2>how domestic work tends to be split up taking care

1:38:24.120 --> 1:38:27.120
<v Speaker 2>of everyone else, having someone be like, this is what

1:38:27.160 --> 1:38:31.160
<v Speaker 2>we're doing, and your pleasure is the priority. And so

1:38:31.200 --> 1:38:35.240
<v Speaker 2>while the romantic dynamics, if you're a twelve year old

1:38:35.240 --> 1:38:39.280
<v Speaker 2>and you have no understanding of how a relationship you know, should,

1:38:39.479 --> 1:38:43.240
<v Speaker 2>quote unquote be, can be very dangerous, I do understand

1:38:43.280 --> 1:38:45.920
<v Speaker 2>the appeal of it in a different context, and like,

1:38:45.960 --> 1:38:50.160
<v Speaker 2>so that's part of why it's so hard to talk about.

1:38:50.760 --> 1:38:56.599
<v Speaker 1>Right, So I watched the whole ContraPoints video bravely, all

1:38:56.640 --> 1:39:01.360
<v Speaker 1>three hours, basically the same length as Titanic. It's hard

1:39:01.400 --> 1:39:05.040
<v Speaker 1>to summarize because of its length and how in depth

1:39:05.200 --> 1:39:10.000
<v Speaker 1>it is, but basically, it looks at Twilight through the

1:39:10.120 --> 1:39:16.520
<v Speaker 1>lens of sexual desire and fantasy by way of prescribed

1:39:16.640 --> 1:39:23.919
<v Speaker 1>gender roles, social conditioning, power dynamics, human psychology, and how

1:39:24.479 --> 1:39:27.920
<v Speaker 1>nuanced and complicated all of those things are. Where yes,

1:39:28.400 --> 1:39:33.040
<v Speaker 1>she acknowledges, the relationship dynamics portrayed in Twilight can easily

1:39:33.439 --> 1:39:38.360
<v Speaker 1>be considered problematic and predatory. But when you take all

1:39:38.400 --> 1:39:43.559
<v Speaker 1>of these different things into consideration, and you especially consider

1:39:43.920 --> 1:39:50.400
<v Speaker 1>patriarchy and something that she calls default heterosexual sadomasochism. I'm

1:39:50.439 --> 1:39:53.439
<v Speaker 1>not sure if that's a term that she coins or

1:39:53.439 --> 1:39:58.120
<v Speaker 1>if that's an existing thing, but it's basically this division

1:39:58.160 --> 1:40:03.519
<v Speaker 1>of sexuality in sexual dynamic into these binary roles such

1:40:03.520 --> 1:40:08.400
<v Speaker 1>as like masculine and feminine, top and bottom, dominant and submissive,

1:40:09.000 --> 1:40:13.120
<v Speaker 1>lover and beloved, predator and pray, like all these things,

1:40:13.479 --> 1:40:16.800
<v Speaker 1>but lumping several of them together in a way that

1:40:17.320 --> 1:40:22.679
<v Speaker 1>is very very prescriptive of cist gender roles, which is

1:40:22.720 --> 1:40:27.360
<v Speaker 1>extremely reductive and problematic and ignores the fact that like

1:40:28.280 --> 1:40:31.840
<v Speaker 1>people can be both masculine and feminine, people can be

1:40:32.960 --> 1:40:35.920
<v Speaker 1>a switch. They're not just submissive or dominant, you know,

1:40:35.920 --> 1:40:37.960
<v Speaker 1>you can be both, Like all these things, like all

1:40:38.040 --> 1:40:42.240
<v Speaker 1>the facets that one person can be or that a

1:40:42.320 --> 1:40:45.559
<v Speaker 1>relationship can be, where it's not just like this person

1:40:45.720 --> 1:40:49.719
<v Speaker 1>assumes this role and this person assumes this opposing role,

1:40:49.880 --> 1:40:52.240
<v Speaker 1>and that's how it has to be, Like things are

1:40:52.240 --> 1:40:55.080
<v Speaker 1>far more fluid than that, And counterpoints basically comes to

1:40:55.160 --> 1:40:59.400
<v Speaker 1>the conclusion that maybe actually Twilight is kind of a

1:40:59.520 --> 1:41:02.600
<v Speaker 1>rejection of this, which like I don't know if I

1:41:02.640 --> 1:41:05.720
<v Speaker 1>fully agree with. But and then also for me, like

1:41:06.720 --> 1:41:09.559
<v Speaker 1>it is all about the audience consuming this.

1:41:10.320 --> 1:41:13.439
<v Speaker 2>Right, That's the main thing that was like hard for me, Right.

1:41:13.479 --> 1:41:16.840
<v Speaker 1>If you are a full adult who has come to

1:41:17.760 --> 1:41:20.760
<v Speaker 1>probably not peak emotional intelligence because you know, we're all

1:41:20.800 --> 1:41:24.480
<v Speaker 1>on a journey constantly, no one's there. Yeah, it depends

1:41:24.640 --> 1:41:27.640
<v Speaker 1>a lot on the age and maturity level of the

1:41:27.680 --> 1:41:31.600
<v Speaker 1>person consuming this. And because this saga the series is

1:41:32.400 --> 1:41:40.080
<v Speaker 1>directed primarily toward children slash tweens slash young teens. Again,

1:41:40.120 --> 1:41:43.040
<v Speaker 1>it's like, yes, the source material is a product of

1:41:43.880 --> 1:41:48.599
<v Speaker 1>Stephanie Meyers and so many people's conditioning as far as

1:41:48.680 --> 1:41:51.040
<v Speaker 1>what a relationship is supposed to look like. But then

1:41:51.760 --> 1:41:56.400
<v Speaker 1>this movie like reinforces that in a way that's incredibly problematic,

1:41:56.439 --> 1:42:00.800
<v Speaker 1>where we hopefully and definitely now are seen a lot

1:42:00.840 --> 1:42:05.679
<v Speaker 1>more media that rejects a lot of the very abusive

1:42:05.720 --> 1:42:10.280
<v Speaker 1>relationship dynamics we see in Twilight and posits healthier versions

1:42:10.479 --> 1:42:14.240
<v Speaker 1>of young people and people of all ages in relationships.

1:42:14.320 --> 1:42:18.320
<v Speaker 1>But we just weren't there in the you know, mid

1:42:18.360 --> 1:42:21.120
<v Speaker 1>two thousands and did the late two thousands and stuff

1:42:21.120 --> 1:42:23.320
<v Speaker 1>when these movies and books were coming out.

1:42:23.320 --> 1:42:27.160
<v Speaker 2>Or really for like ten years after that, Like right, yeah,

1:42:27.200 --> 1:42:30.080
<v Speaker 2>and maybe arguably now, like we're living in a time

1:42:30.120 --> 1:42:31.960
<v Speaker 2>of regression unfortunately.

1:42:32.320 --> 1:42:35.439
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean the total trad wife thing that's coming

1:42:35.520 --> 1:42:36.160
<v Speaker 1>back around.

1:42:36.640 --> 1:42:39.519
<v Speaker 3>Oh trad wives. Don't even get me started on trad wife.

1:42:39.640 --> 1:42:44.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So, oh god, I agree with you, Caitlin. I

1:42:44.680 --> 1:42:48.599
<v Speaker 2>think that like, I really enjoyed the ContraPoints take on it,

1:42:48.640 --> 1:42:52.720
<v Speaker 2>and I learned I learned a lot about the way

1:42:52.760 --> 1:42:55.479
<v Speaker 2>that romance has been Again, then I think that like

1:42:55.760 --> 1:42:59.120
<v Speaker 2>does pull in a valid point that I want to

1:42:59.120 --> 1:43:02.800
<v Speaker 2>get into, is like the idea that media that is

1:43:03.400 --> 1:43:07.920
<v Speaker 2>targeted at any like, any group that isn't CIS men

1:43:08.520 --> 1:43:12.280
<v Speaker 2>and CIS white men specifically, will be presented as a

1:43:12.400 --> 1:43:16.599
<v Speaker 2>danger to society, and that it really requires a close

1:43:16.640 --> 1:43:19.800
<v Speaker 2>look at the source material to determine is that actually so?

1:43:20.240 --> 1:43:24.080
<v Speaker 2>But I think that what I learned more from her

1:43:24.720 --> 1:43:28.760
<v Speaker 2>piece on it was understanding why moms liked it and

1:43:28.800 --> 1:43:33.440
<v Speaker 2>that actually wasn't too weird. But I didn't feel satisfied

1:43:33.560 --> 1:43:37.200
<v Speaker 2>as to like, well, but what if you're you know, twelve,

1:43:37.520 --> 1:43:41.960
<v Speaker 2>and you are years away from having any sort of

1:43:42.080 --> 1:43:46.360
<v Speaker 2>romantic connection with someone, and this is like consuming your life,

1:43:46.360 --> 1:43:50.400
<v Speaker 2>which was true for hundreds of thousands of young people.

1:43:50.720 --> 1:43:51.000
<v Speaker 1>Right.

1:43:51.080 --> 1:43:53.760
<v Speaker 2>I did appreciate seeing it, but I think it did

1:43:53.800 --> 1:43:57.120
<v Speaker 2>sort of not quite get to like. But who was

1:43:57.200 --> 1:44:00.960
<v Speaker 2>this targeted at. Yeah, that brought me to sort of

1:44:00.960 --> 1:44:05.880
<v Speaker 2>something that I wanted to touch on callback that capacious

1:44:06.000 --> 1:44:11.360
<v Speaker 2>journal assay I was talking about about not just being

1:44:11.400 --> 1:44:15.760
<v Speaker 2>ashamed of liking the Twilight Yes series and being like, no,

1:44:16.080 --> 1:44:19.439
<v Speaker 2>I would never like a popular thing that everyone likes,

1:44:20.320 --> 1:44:25.080
<v Speaker 2>and specifically where there was a resurgence during the early

1:44:25.200 --> 1:44:29.360
<v Speaker 2>days of lockdown with queer communities in re embracing this.

1:44:29.720 --> 1:44:33.920
<v Speaker 2>I saw this firsthand with Wait, actually, I'm going to

1:44:34.000 --> 1:44:40.400
<v Speaker 2>read my friend's letterboxed review of Twilight Please to illustrate

1:44:40.439 --> 1:44:45.839
<v Speaker 2>this point. I feel like Cam will be okay with it. Okay,

1:44:46.479 --> 1:44:51.240
<v Speaker 2>this is my friend Cameron's review from January nineteenth, twenty

1:44:51.240 --> 1:44:55.920
<v Speaker 2>twenty five. Okay, yeah, and Cam's about my age and

1:44:56.000 --> 1:44:57.920
<v Speaker 2>they're I mean, they're the best. I can't believe I've

1:44:57.920 --> 1:45:00.000
<v Speaker 2>never rated this, obviously, this is one of my favorite

1:45:00.080 --> 1:45:03.120
<v Speaker 2>films in the entire world. I cannot truly explain what

1:45:03.160 --> 1:45:05.080
<v Speaker 2>this film did to me as a seventeen year old

1:45:05.160 --> 1:45:07.920
<v Speaker 2>virgin high school senior who had never kissed anyone and

1:45:08.040 --> 1:45:10.600
<v Speaker 2>was depressed out of their gourd because they were unknowingly

1:45:10.680 --> 1:45:14.320
<v Speaker 2>transcend gay and also had an undiagnosed mood disorder. The

1:45:14.360 --> 1:45:16.840
<v Speaker 2>books in this film were integral to my survival, and

1:45:16.880 --> 1:45:21.000
<v Speaker 2>I owe Stephanie Meyer's untalented sicko ass mind a whole lot.

1:45:22.800 --> 1:45:26.560
<v Speaker 2>I think that this encapsulates a lot of people's experience

1:45:26.680 --> 1:45:27.440
<v Speaker 2>with Twilight.

1:45:27.520 --> 1:45:30.880
<v Speaker 3>Honestly, Yes, Oh my goodness, thank you.

1:45:31.000 --> 1:45:31.200
<v Speaker 2>Cam.

1:45:31.439 --> 1:45:32.400
<v Speaker 3>Cam is their name?

1:45:32.479 --> 1:45:32.960
<v Speaker 2>Cam? Yeah?

1:45:33.000 --> 1:45:38.760
<v Speaker 3>Cameron, Yeah, Cameron. I feel this absolutely, like completely, I

1:45:38.800 --> 1:45:42.439
<v Speaker 3>am grateful for like Sephanie Meyer's sick oh mind, because

1:45:42.439 --> 1:45:47.559
<v Speaker 3>I it is like this weird nostalgic like comfort Watch

1:45:47.640 --> 1:45:50.599
<v Speaker 3>that I continue to like return to again and again

1:45:50.720 --> 1:45:54.920
<v Speaker 3>and again. And I think, Caitlyn, you said that you've

1:45:54.920 --> 1:45:58.240
<v Speaker 3>watched the movie like fifteen times or something like that. Yeah,

1:45:58.280 --> 1:46:01.280
<v Speaker 3>and I think, like fifteen that's how much I maybe

1:46:01.320 --> 1:46:03.320
<v Speaker 3>watched the movie in a matter of like two months.

1:46:03.360 --> 1:46:07.120
<v Speaker 3>Like I this movie is always on my TV. It's like, oh,

1:46:07.120 --> 1:46:09.680
<v Speaker 3>i'm folding laundry, let me put on Twilight. Oh I'm

1:46:09.680 --> 1:46:10.720
<v Speaker 3>having a really bad day.

1:46:10.920 --> 1:46:11.440
<v Speaker 2>Twilight.

1:46:11.760 --> 1:46:14.559
<v Speaker 3>Oh it just got broken up with New Moon because

1:46:15.080 --> 1:46:18.000
<v Speaker 3>oh right, this bitch likes to lean into the heartbreak.

1:46:18.320 --> 1:46:24.040
<v Speaker 3>Do you know what I'm saying. There's a pity, Yes, yes,

1:46:24.479 --> 1:46:27.640
<v Speaker 3>I've even wrote in a Twilight poem or two, and

1:46:27.680 --> 1:46:30.519
<v Speaker 3>a friend of mine we really want to edit an

1:46:30.560 --> 1:46:35.880
<v Speaker 3>anthology on poems based off of Twilight. And I think

1:46:35.880 --> 1:46:38.759
<v Speaker 3>for me, like, one of the reasons why I adore

1:46:38.800 --> 1:46:42.000
<v Speaker 3>Twilight with all of its problems is because it's so

1:46:42.479 --> 1:46:46.479
<v Speaker 3>ridiculous at least you know again now, it's like this

1:46:46.800 --> 1:46:53.040
<v Speaker 3>expected ridiculousness that feels very very comfortable to me. It's

1:46:53.080 --> 1:46:54.760
<v Speaker 3>so much of a go to to me that I

1:46:54.760 --> 1:46:58.680
<v Speaker 3>can't really imagine my life without it, which sounds like

1:46:59.479 --> 1:47:03.120
<v Speaker 3>really wild, but it's like to me, it's like just

1:47:03.200 --> 1:47:06.160
<v Speaker 3>as important to my survival as my wellview trend. Like

1:47:06.240 --> 1:47:11.479
<v Speaker 3>I need my Twilight to kind of be a like

1:47:11.640 --> 1:47:16.639
<v Speaker 3>healing bomb to the shit of the world, and it's

1:47:16.720 --> 1:47:22.080
<v Speaker 3>like a satirical toxicity that I can somehow kind of

1:47:22.120 --> 1:47:26.400
<v Speaker 3>digest as opposed to the toxicity that is actually happening,

1:47:26.439 --> 1:47:29.880
<v Speaker 3>you know, outside of my door right that I you know,

1:47:29.960 --> 1:47:32.360
<v Speaker 3>really want to run away from. So like, I'm so

1:47:32.400 --> 1:47:37.160
<v Speaker 3>grateful that your friend Cameron wrote that review. It feels

1:47:37.600 --> 1:47:42.000
<v Speaker 3>I feel so seen by that. That's gorgeous they were.

1:47:41.920 --> 1:47:43.640
<v Speaker 2>Brave enough to say. I mean, then I think that

1:47:43.640 --> 1:47:47.160
<v Speaker 2>that is like a very common experience more recently, is

1:47:47.160 --> 1:47:50.439
<v Speaker 2>that like, this is also just becoming an adult where

1:47:50.479 --> 1:47:52.479
<v Speaker 2>you don't have to give a fuck what others think

1:47:52.560 --> 1:47:53.200
<v Speaker 2>quite as much.

1:47:53.800 --> 1:47:56.280
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, a beautiful space.

1:47:56.000 --> 1:47:59.960
<v Speaker 2>To be in, that sweet release that we've all experienced

1:48:00.200 --> 1:48:00.960
<v Speaker 2>mid thirties.

1:48:01.080 --> 1:48:01.639
<v Speaker 3>It's great.

1:48:02.200 --> 1:48:06.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, But there was and again I think this was

1:48:06.560 --> 1:48:10.599
<v Speaker 2>about ten years ago. What the conversation stopped at was

1:48:11.040 --> 1:48:15.320
<v Speaker 2>that things that are marketed to and this is a

1:48:15.320 --> 1:48:17.599
<v Speaker 2>broad umbrellaturn, but at the time that things that are

1:48:17.640 --> 1:48:22.600
<v Speaker 2>marketed to teen girls are universally made out to be

1:48:22.760 --> 1:48:26.000
<v Speaker 2>a societal ill and embarrassing and don't admit that you

1:48:26.080 --> 1:48:27.479
<v Speaker 2>like it, and if you admit that you like it,

1:48:27.479 --> 1:48:30.559
<v Speaker 2>your cringe, which I do think is true, and that

1:48:30.880 --> 1:48:34.920
<v Speaker 2>is I think still to this day true. But that

1:48:35.040 --> 1:48:37.120
<v Speaker 2>was sort of where the criticism stopped and where I

1:48:37.160 --> 1:48:39.960
<v Speaker 2>appreciate where it's gone, and I feel like where I

1:48:40.040 --> 1:48:44.600
<v Speaker 2>hope it continues going is there is clearly an appeal

1:48:44.800 --> 1:48:49.160
<v Speaker 2>to stories like this to and again teen girls I'm

1:48:49.240 --> 1:48:52.519
<v Speaker 2>using very very generally here, but there's still a very

1:48:52.560 --> 1:48:55.640
<v Speaker 2>broad appeal to it. And so it's like then the

1:48:55.680 --> 1:49:00.200
<v Speaker 2>responsibility of their parents and mentors to talk to them

1:49:00.240 --> 1:49:04.120
<v Speaker 2>about why, because again, it's like, it's very easy to

1:49:04.160 --> 1:49:07.960
<v Speaker 2>be like Twilight is the problem, or I think like,

1:49:08.080 --> 1:49:12.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, whichever bout of media is the problem, then

1:49:12.920 --> 1:49:17.759
<v Speaker 2>actually interrogating well, where did this come from? Because Stephanie

1:49:17.840 --> 1:49:20.600
<v Speaker 2>Meyer is a deeply problematic person, but she had no

1:49:20.680 --> 1:49:22.799
<v Speaker 2>idea that this was going to sell millions and millions

1:49:22.800 --> 1:49:25.519
<v Speaker 2>of copies. I think the more important question is why

1:49:25.560 --> 1:49:28.240
<v Speaker 2>does this sell millions and millions of copies? Why is

1:49:28.280 --> 1:49:32.639
<v Speaker 2>it so appealing to us? And how can you talk

1:49:32.800 --> 1:49:37.360
<v Speaker 2>to the intended audience for this without being an old loser.

1:49:37.800 --> 1:49:40.120
<v Speaker 2>I don't have the answers to these questions, but I

1:49:40.160 --> 1:49:43.040
<v Speaker 2>feel like they're worth asking instead of being like Twilight

1:49:43.320 --> 1:49:47.200
<v Speaker 2>is bad for youth, maybe, but they like it, so

1:49:47.240 --> 1:49:50.200
<v Speaker 2>we should figure it out, you know, and like and

1:49:50.240 --> 1:49:53.519
<v Speaker 2>we liked it. Yeah, So anyways, we're getting into like

1:49:53.520 --> 1:49:55.880
<v Speaker 2>the queer fan base, which you know, we've talked about

1:49:55.920 --> 1:49:58.880
<v Speaker 2>on this show many times. A lot of aggressively heteronormative

1:49:58.920 --> 1:50:03.040
<v Speaker 2>stories have been embrace by queer audiences, and I wanted

1:50:03.080 --> 1:50:04.880
<v Speaker 2>to get into I don't think we talked about this

1:50:04.960 --> 1:50:07.000
<v Speaker 2>with Twilight last time, and I don't think it was

1:50:07.040 --> 1:50:12.040
<v Speaker 2>really talked about because there was still Twilight enjoying stigma

1:50:12.720 --> 1:50:17.200
<v Speaker 2>at that time. True, So this is from that capacious

1:50:17.920 --> 1:50:21.040
<v Speaker 2>journal essay still not as gay as Twilight, which I

1:50:21.040 --> 1:50:22.920
<v Speaker 2>guess was a meme. I did not remember that.

1:50:23.120 --> 1:50:23.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I didn't see that.

1:50:24.000 --> 1:50:26.080
<v Speaker 2>I don't think ever, but I guess it was a

1:50:26.240 --> 1:50:28.800
<v Speaker 2>very online meme from the early twenty tens, you know,

1:50:28.920 --> 1:50:31.519
<v Speaker 2>And it would often be queer users would post a

1:50:31.560 --> 1:50:35.280
<v Speaker 2>photo from like blue is the warmest color and then

1:50:35.360 --> 1:50:38.760
<v Speaker 2>be like, still not as gay as Twilight, and that

1:50:39.160 --> 1:50:43.439
<v Speaker 2>is that's the meme, basically postmodern affect, nostalgia and queer

1:50:43.439 --> 1:50:46.200
<v Speaker 2>Twilight renaissance during the COVID nineteen pandemic, and a lot

1:50:46.200 --> 1:50:50.080
<v Speaker 2>of this was just sort of analyzing to some extent,

1:50:50.280 --> 1:50:54.000
<v Speaker 2>just the broader shame no matter what your identity was

1:50:54.280 --> 1:50:57.280
<v Speaker 2>around enjoying Twilight at this time, which we've talked about,

1:50:57.479 --> 1:51:00.320
<v Speaker 2>but also their queer fandom. So just to share from

1:51:00.320 --> 1:51:04.120
<v Speaker 2>that quote, a focal pillar of this comeback is queer.

1:51:04.360 --> 1:51:07.800
<v Speaker 2>Many queer fans within the Twilight renaissance are quote unquote

1:51:07.880 --> 1:51:11.920
<v Speaker 2>gayifying Twilight in the early twenty twenties, Twilight is gay,

1:51:12.040 --> 1:51:15.280
<v Speaker 2>but this time in a good way. One factor that

1:51:15.479 --> 1:51:18.240
<v Speaker 2>may have kindled the onset of the Twilight Renaissance is

1:51:18.280 --> 1:51:20.880
<v Speaker 2>when Kristen Stewart, the actor who played Bella in the

1:51:20.880 --> 1:51:25.040
<v Speaker 2>Twilight film adaptations, publicly came out as bisexual in twenty seventeen.

1:51:25.439 --> 1:51:28.320
<v Speaker 2>The Twilight renaissance could also be sustained by former fans

1:51:28.360 --> 1:51:32.160
<v Speaker 2>resisting years of anti Twilight shame with the realization that

1:51:32.200 --> 1:51:36.000
<v Speaker 2>the mass anti Twilight rhetoric was merely misplaced misogyny that

1:51:36.120 --> 1:51:39.719
<v Speaker 2>essentially vilified the interests and desires of young women. Another

1:51:39.880 --> 1:51:42.720
<v Speaker 2>variable that might explain the fandom's heightened activity during the

1:51:42.720 --> 1:51:45.559
<v Speaker 2>pandemic is Stephanie Meyer's release of the fifth installment to

1:51:45.600 --> 1:51:50.240
<v Speaker 2>the Novels, which gets into basically Twilight from Edward's perspective,

1:51:50.720 --> 1:51:53.519
<v Speaker 2>but it also looks into a lot of the queer

1:51:53.560 --> 1:51:57.680
<v Speaker 2>fanfic that existed around Twilight, which I do remember was

1:51:57.840 --> 1:52:02.360
<v Speaker 2>quite prolific. You know, Edward, Jacob and you can just

1:52:02.439 --> 1:52:04.679
<v Speaker 2>kind of let your brain do the math from there.

1:52:04.880 --> 1:52:05.920
<v Speaker 1>Why what what happened?

1:52:06.479 --> 1:52:09.280
<v Speaker 2>Just kidding killing You're not ready, You can't You're not ready.

1:52:09.280 --> 1:52:10.160
<v Speaker 2>I can't tell you.

1:52:11.120 --> 1:52:12.759
<v Speaker 1>I'm not old enough to know. I'm not ready.

1:52:13.320 --> 1:52:15.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'll tell you in a couple of years.

1:52:15.120 --> 1:52:16.439
<v Speaker 1>Tell you yeah, tell me when I'm older.

1:52:16.800 --> 1:52:20.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but yeah, I mean I think that this is

1:52:20.920 --> 1:52:23.800
<v Speaker 2>a story we're kind of familiar with, and the fact

1:52:23.840 --> 1:52:27.360
<v Speaker 2>that Edward Cullen as portrayed in the books and movies

1:52:27.520 --> 1:52:32.960
<v Speaker 2>of again, this very I think confusing, Like, no, vampires

1:52:33.000 --> 1:52:36.120
<v Speaker 2>are straight scary guys. I'm like, have you seen interview

1:52:36.160 --> 1:52:38.439
<v Speaker 2>with a vampire? Like, what do you mean? Yeah, what

1:52:38.479 --> 1:52:41.000
<v Speaker 2>do you mean? Have you seen any vampire?

1:52:41.200 --> 1:52:44.880
<v Speaker 1>Have you seen Dracula? Have you seen most of them?

1:52:45.680 --> 1:52:49.080
<v Speaker 2>Like Edward is actually one of the straighter vampires, right,

1:52:49.400 --> 1:52:52.320
<v Speaker 2>But it was literally just because you know, if you're

1:52:52.439 --> 1:52:57.960
<v Speaker 2>like a socially conditioned teenage boy, you're like, vampires don't sparkle,

1:52:58.560 --> 1:53:02.240
<v Speaker 2>that's not scary, you know, And that was literally it.

1:53:02.280 --> 1:53:04.439
<v Speaker 2>And so the way that gaslers were thrown around on

1:53:04.520 --> 1:53:08.799
<v Speaker 2>the two thousands, you can imagine how the character Edward

1:53:08.920 --> 1:53:12.759
<v Speaker 2>Cullin and eventually the actor Robert Pattinson was spoken about,

1:53:12.920 --> 1:53:15.960
<v Speaker 2>which we can talk about in future installments because I

1:53:16.000 --> 1:53:17.679
<v Speaker 2>know we're going along. But I do think it's interesting

1:53:17.720 --> 1:53:21.719
<v Speaker 2>to revisit those press junkets where Robert Pattinson's like, actually,

1:53:22.280 --> 1:53:26.519
<v Speaker 2>this movie's fucked up, Yeah, in a way that I'm

1:53:26.520 --> 1:53:28.599
<v Speaker 2>sure he did feel to some extent, but it also

1:53:28.640 --> 1:53:31.400
<v Speaker 2>does feel like on the defensive of having a future career,

1:53:31.720 --> 1:53:34.400
<v Speaker 2>because you don't want to be the guy that's like, oh,

1:53:34.479 --> 1:53:37.880
<v Speaker 2>I totally understand the appeal of this, and I really

1:53:38.360 --> 1:53:40.360
<v Speaker 2>I mean, or not even that, but even just like

1:53:40.600 --> 1:53:44.160
<v Speaker 2>I respect the fans of this franchise, which doesn't feel

1:53:44.160 --> 1:53:46.400
<v Speaker 2>like too much to ask, but I think it's like,

1:53:46.640 --> 1:53:49.120
<v Speaker 2>if he's thinking about wanting to go on to star

1:53:49.200 --> 1:53:52.160
<v Speaker 2>in a Christopher Nolan movie, you probably don't want to

1:53:52.160 --> 1:53:55.240
<v Speaker 2>be Like, the appeal of Twilight makes sense to me.

1:53:56.000 --> 1:54:00.559
<v Speaker 1>Would he be Mickey seventeen if you know years ago

1:54:00.840 --> 1:54:01.240
<v Speaker 1>he was.

1:54:01.200 --> 1:54:05.639
<v Speaker 2>Like Mickey seventeen was mid But yeah, no, I mean

1:54:06.040 --> 1:54:09.559
<v Speaker 2>maybe not. I don't know. And that's the last. Sorry,

1:54:09.640 --> 1:54:12.800
<v Speaker 2>there's too much. One of the last things I wanted

1:54:12.840 --> 1:54:16.719
<v Speaker 2>to touch on was that, as we know, Kristian Stewart

1:54:16.800 --> 1:54:20.040
<v Speaker 2>Robert Pattinson go on to be huge movie stars. Yes

1:54:20.360 --> 1:54:23.639
<v Speaker 2>they're Mickey seventeen, their Princess Diana, et cetera.

1:54:23.800 --> 1:54:25.760
<v Speaker 1>Their love lives bleeding, their love les bleed.

1:54:25.800 --> 1:54:27.840
<v Speaker 2>I mean, we love that, but I don't know how

1:54:27.880 --> 1:54:29.479
<v Speaker 2>many people saw it, but it's great and we're gonna

1:54:29.479 --> 1:54:33.520
<v Speaker 2>talk about it soon. But this movie, for all of

1:54:33.560 --> 1:54:40.160
<v Speaker 2>its faults, was written and directed by women, and the director,

1:54:40.240 --> 1:54:43.040
<v Speaker 2>as we've said, is Catherine Hardwick, who broke through with

1:54:43.360 --> 1:54:48.960
<v Speaker 2>thirteen and this is sort of her big blockbuster movie,

1:54:49.200 --> 1:54:52.480
<v Speaker 2>and she does not go on to direct any of

1:54:52.520 --> 1:54:55.800
<v Speaker 2>the other Twilight movies. I was not sure why this

1:54:56.000 --> 1:54:59.560
<v Speaker 2>reason was. I guess it was because this is I'm

1:54:59.560 --> 1:55:02.880
<v Speaker 2>pulling from Vanity Fair article from twenty eighteen, but that

1:55:03.400 --> 1:55:08.120
<v Speaker 2>she chose not to because of just being burned out,

1:55:08.160 --> 1:55:10.120
<v Speaker 2>and if she wanted to direct New Moon, she would

1:55:10.120 --> 1:55:13.840
<v Speaker 2>have had to basically never stopped working for like five

1:55:13.920 --> 1:55:17.840
<v Speaker 2>years or something absurd, and so she opted not to,

1:55:18.720 --> 1:55:22.720
<v Speaker 2>thinking I think logically that, well, if the first Twilight

1:55:22.800 --> 1:55:25.800
<v Speaker 2>movie does well, I will not have trouble finding work.

1:55:26.080 --> 1:55:28.200
<v Speaker 2>And you can imagine how the story goes from here.

1:55:28.280 --> 1:55:32.360
<v Speaker 2>Because we've heard it about one trillion women directors, she

1:55:32.480 --> 1:55:35.840
<v Speaker 2>actually had quite a difficult time finding follow up work.

1:55:35.920 --> 1:55:40.720
<v Speaker 2>Even though Twilight made almost half a billion dollars, every

1:55:40.760 --> 1:55:46.200
<v Speaker 2>other installment was directed by men, and Katherine Hardwick reflected

1:55:46.400 --> 1:55:52.000
<v Speaker 2>on this later. I guess interestingly, the screenwriter that Katherine

1:55:52.000 --> 1:55:56.680
<v Speaker 2>Hardwick advocated for, Melissa Rosenberg, who also wrote step up

1:55:57.000 --> 1:56:00.640
<v Speaker 2>another classic, Oh yes, and wrote on Deck and the

1:56:00.680 --> 1:56:04.960
<v Speaker 2>OC so she said two thousands, girly. She went on

1:56:05.080 --> 1:56:08.400
<v Speaker 2>to write all of the Twilight movies where Catherine Hardwick

1:56:08.480 --> 1:56:11.880
<v Speaker 2>never came back to the franchise and had a lot

1:56:11.920 --> 1:56:16.720
<v Speaker 2>of trouble sort of finding comparable directing gigs to this day,

1:56:17.880 --> 1:56:22.560
<v Speaker 2>which you know, for all of the valid criticisms of Twilight,

1:56:22.640 --> 1:56:26.240
<v Speaker 2>I think is like kind of ridiculous. Where you think

1:56:26.280 --> 1:56:29.960
<v Speaker 2>about how many male directors we've talked about that have

1:56:30.080 --> 1:56:32.160
<v Speaker 2>a movie that breaks even and they never want for

1:56:32.240 --> 1:56:34.960
<v Speaker 2>work for their entire lives. Here's someone who has. And

1:56:35.000 --> 1:56:37.920
<v Speaker 2>she also, you can argue, quote unquote turned around the

1:56:37.920 --> 1:56:41.200
<v Speaker 2>script because there was the original version of the script

1:56:41.240 --> 1:56:45.760
<v Speaker 2>that was going to be filmed, changed so much about

1:56:46.000 --> 1:56:49.360
<v Speaker 2>the source material that in some ways, I'm like, this

1:56:49.440 --> 1:56:51.320
<v Speaker 2>could have been cool, but it is a different story.

1:56:51.560 --> 1:56:55.600
<v Speaker 2>Bella Swan was a long distance runner, cursed and used

1:56:55.640 --> 1:57:00.600
<v Speaker 2>shotguns against vampires who killed her father. Whoa And then

1:57:00.640 --> 1:57:03.920
<v Speaker 2>she wrote jet skis being chased by the FBI, And

1:57:03.960 --> 1:57:06.440
<v Speaker 2>you're like, well, that's not Twilight.

1:57:06.320 --> 1:57:08.600
<v Speaker 1>That's not even the Yeah, but.

1:57:08.640 --> 1:57:12.400
<v Speaker 2>I would see that movie, but that's not Twilight. Oh yeah,

1:57:13.320 --> 1:57:14.320
<v Speaker 2>So that.

1:57:14.320 --> 1:57:17.240
<v Speaker 1>Was Katherine Hardwicke's script, Like that was her interpret Oh.

1:57:17.200 --> 1:57:20.080
<v Speaker 2>No, no, no, that was some random guy who was

1:57:20.160 --> 1:57:24.120
<v Speaker 2>hired to adapt Twilight being told we don't want only

1:57:24.120 --> 1:57:26.360
<v Speaker 2>girls to see this movie, so you need to take

1:57:26.400 --> 1:57:29.920
<v Speaker 2>this source material and make it appealing to men.

1:57:30.280 --> 1:57:34.880
<v Speaker 1>Basically, Wow, so guns and jet skis.

1:57:34.400 --> 1:57:37.920
<v Speaker 2>Jet skis from the FBI. Yeah, And I was really

1:57:37.960 --> 1:57:40.200
<v Speaker 2>struggling with that because I was like, that sounds like

1:57:40.240 --> 1:57:43.960
<v Speaker 2>a fun movie. But yeah, when Catherine Hardwick came on,

1:57:44.040 --> 1:57:46.640
<v Speaker 2>she's just like and she read the script and she's like,

1:57:46.880 --> 1:57:48.440
<v Speaker 2>I don't love this. And then she read the book

1:57:48.480 --> 1:57:50.400
<v Speaker 2>and she was like, I don't understand how this is

1:57:50.440 --> 1:57:56.600
<v Speaker 2>the same story. And then she advocated for a woman

1:57:56.760 --> 1:57:59.400
<v Speaker 2>to write the story and write it more faithfully and

1:57:59.600 --> 1:58:02.120
<v Speaker 2>for better and for worse. I think Stephanie Meyer had

1:58:02.160 --> 1:58:07.560
<v Speaker 2>a lot of input in the movie during its production.

1:58:08.000 --> 1:58:10.000
<v Speaker 1>I mean, she's in cameos.

1:58:10.160 --> 1:58:12.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. I was about to say, the diner scene, here's

1:58:12.520 --> 1:58:15.560
<v Speaker 3>your breakfast, Steffie. Yeah.

1:58:15.760 --> 1:58:18.680
<v Speaker 1>She also in the wedding scene later on in like

1:58:18.960 --> 1:58:19.720
<v Speaker 1>the later.

1:58:19.520 --> 1:58:23.800
<v Speaker 3>Movies, Yes, she's in the wedding scene. Oh and Breaking

1:58:23.880 --> 1:58:26.520
<v Speaker 3>Dawn part one, Yeah.

1:58:26.240 --> 1:58:29.040
<v Speaker 2>She's m night scheimalaning all over.

1:58:29.920 --> 1:58:31.160
<v Speaker 1>She's Alfred Hitchcocking.

1:58:31.440 --> 1:58:34.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it is really funny, cause I don't think I

1:58:35.000 --> 1:58:37.040
<v Speaker 2>knew it once I was an adult. But the first

1:58:37.040 --> 1:58:38.960
<v Speaker 2>time I saw the movie, I definitely didn't know who

1:58:39.480 --> 1:58:43.320
<v Speaker 2>Stephie was. Here's your breakfast, Steffie, but it's so obvious

1:58:43.360 --> 1:58:48.080
<v Speaker 2>once you know. I enjoyed it anyways. Yeah, Catherine Hardwick,

1:58:48.160 --> 1:58:50.800
<v Speaker 2>I think is maybe slightly a better director than this

1:58:50.880 --> 1:58:54.360
<v Speaker 2>movie deserved, and I don't appreciate that having directed it

1:58:54.400 --> 1:58:59.520
<v Speaker 2>seems to have derailed her career to some extent. Twilight

1:58:59.520 --> 1:59:03.200
<v Speaker 2>didn't deserve her, but they got her, and I think

1:59:03.240 --> 1:59:05.280
<v Speaker 2>that that's why the first movie is a lot of

1:59:05.280 --> 1:59:08.120
<v Speaker 2>people's favorites, because she's she's pulling from the indie playbook.

1:59:08.200 --> 1:59:11.160
<v Speaker 2>She's playing Radiohead during the damn credits.

1:59:11.560 --> 1:59:16.160
<v Speaker 3>The soundtrack is like something else. It really is amazing. So,

1:59:17.400 --> 1:59:19.320
<v Speaker 3>you know, as a former cult kid, like I wasn't

1:59:19.360 --> 1:59:22.080
<v Speaker 3>allowed to listen to secular music, and then when you know,

1:59:22.400 --> 1:59:25.879
<v Speaker 3>I started to leave that system, I was watching Twilight

1:59:26.040 --> 1:59:28.760
<v Speaker 3>and the Twilight movie was like the first time I'd

1:59:28.760 --> 1:59:30.720
<v Speaker 3>ever listened to Paramore before.

1:59:31.040 --> 1:59:32.520
<v Speaker 2>Oh, oh my god.

1:59:32.960 --> 1:59:36.560
<v Speaker 3>That was my introduction to Paramour and Muse. It was

1:59:36.720 --> 1:59:40.280
<v Speaker 3>just like this again like rum spring U this like revelation,

1:59:40.960 --> 1:59:44.440
<v Speaker 3>this epiphany of all this amazing music that I'd never

1:59:44.520 --> 1:59:51.560
<v Speaker 3>heard before, and I felt so like rebellious. And yeah,

1:59:51.800 --> 1:59:56.160
<v Speaker 3>the soundtrack is amazing. Robert Pattinson is also on the soundtrack.

1:59:56.200 --> 1:59:58.440
<v Speaker 3>He sings two songs as well.

1:59:58.640 --> 2:00:00.680
<v Speaker 1>Wait, what I didn't I don't know this.

2:00:00.920 --> 2:00:03.400
<v Speaker 2>I don't think I remember that you did not know this?

2:00:03.760 --> 2:00:08.160
<v Speaker 3>Okay, no, no, yes, Robert Pattinson sings he's a musician.

2:00:08.360 --> 2:00:10.560
<v Speaker 2>What Yes, I knew he was a musician. I didn't

2:00:10.560 --> 2:00:12.320
<v Speaker 2>know he sang in this God.

2:00:12.600 --> 2:00:15.040
<v Speaker 3>So there are two of his songs. The first one

2:00:15.240 --> 2:00:19.400
<v Speaker 3>is the restaurant scene with the mushroom Ravioli. His song

2:00:19.480 --> 2:00:22.760
<v Speaker 3>is playing in the background, Oh my God. And then

2:00:24.000 --> 2:00:26.720
<v Speaker 3>the song that is playing in the scene in the

2:00:26.720 --> 2:00:31.120
<v Speaker 3>ballet studio when Edward is, you know, sucking the venom

2:00:31.240 --> 2:00:36.240
<v Speaker 3>out of Bella's wrist, that's also Robert Pattinson's song playing Whoa.

2:00:36.640 --> 2:00:41.480
<v Speaker 2>That's so punk rock, sucking out blood to your own music. Yeah,

2:00:41.720 --> 2:00:45.880
<v Speaker 2>so I'm seeing Yeah, never think by Robert Pattinson, never

2:00:46.000 --> 2:00:49.880
<v Speaker 2>think Whoa? Good for him? Good for him? This also

2:00:50.000 --> 2:00:54.320
<v Speaker 2>got so many teenage girls into Claude Debussy which does

2:00:54.440 --> 2:00:58.000
<v Speaker 2>crack me up. Like the girls were playing Debussy in

2:00:58.120 --> 2:01:01.880
<v Speaker 2>the car this summer, Claire to Loon, let's go it

2:01:02.000 --> 2:01:06.160
<v Speaker 2>was yes, Paramore, Lincoln Park, Claude to be.

2:01:06.640 --> 2:01:09.160
<v Speaker 1>Yes, oh right, because it's that scene. I feel like

2:01:09.200 --> 2:01:13.040
<v Speaker 1>that's the only vaguely specific thing that ever gets mentioned

2:01:13.640 --> 2:01:18.520
<v Speaker 1>in the movie where she goes to Edward's bedroom. She's like,

2:01:18.920 --> 2:01:22.240
<v Speaker 1>you have so much music, and then we don't know

2:01:22.360 --> 2:01:24.800
<v Speaker 1>what any of it is except for she hits play

2:01:25.360 --> 2:01:29.880
<v Speaker 1>and it's that, and then she's like, oh wow, yeah, that's.

2:01:29.640 --> 2:01:30.240
<v Speaker 2>A good shit.

2:01:30.520 --> 2:01:31.720
<v Speaker 3>Claire Daluon is great.

2:01:32.160 --> 2:01:35.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Just to revisit the Twilight one soundtrack, we also

2:01:36.000 --> 2:01:38.040
<v Speaker 2>have and I think it. I know that like Saint

2:01:38.120 --> 2:01:42.640
<v Speaker 2>Vincent and eventually ends up there in future installments. But

2:01:43.080 --> 2:01:49.000
<v Speaker 2>we've got muse Paramore, Lincoln Park, Iron and Wine and

2:01:49.120 --> 2:01:52.880
<v Speaker 2>Robert Pattinson. Those are the artists that I recognize.

2:01:52.600 --> 2:01:56.840
<v Speaker 3>Iron and Wine, Flightless Bird, Like, wow, that is a

2:01:56.880 --> 2:02:01.040
<v Speaker 3>song like no other. H yeah, and that song is

2:02:01.080 --> 2:02:04.360
<v Speaker 3>actually then there's like a slower version of it that's

2:02:04.360 --> 2:02:07.920
<v Speaker 3>then played in the wedding scene in Breaking Dawn Part one.

2:02:08.360 --> 2:02:12.840
<v Speaker 2>Why do I feel emotional hearing that? That's the paradox

2:02:12.840 --> 2:02:15.760
<v Speaker 2>of Twilight. You're like, I know that this is bad

2:02:16.400 --> 2:02:20.200
<v Speaker 2>for me, but it gets me emotional and what is that?

2:02:20.760 --> 2:02:22.440
<v Speaker 2>What is that? And we don't know.

2:02:23.120 --> 2:02:25.880
<v Speaker 3>I don't know. I think I'm still trying to figure

2:02:25.880 --> 2:02:28.280
<v Speaker 3>out why I love this movie so much, Like why

2:02:28.320 --> 2:02:32.200
<v Speaker 3>do I prance around the world with like Twilight t shirts?

2:02:32.280 --> 2:02:35.400
<v Speaker 3>I'm not completely sure, Like maybe I need to talk

2:02:35.440 --> 2:02:38.080
<v Speaker 3>to my therapist about it next week.

2:02:39.000 --> 2:02:41.320
<v Speaker 2>No, I really do think that, like some of the

2:02:41.360 --> 2:02:48.480
<v Speaker 2>most thoughtful, wonderful, progressive people that I know are obsessed

2:02:48.520 --> 2:02:52.640
<v Speaker 2>with Twilight. Yes, so there's something going on, there's something

2:02:52.680 --> 2:02:53.240
<v Speaker 2>in the water.

2:02:53.440 --> 2:02:54.520
<v Speaker 3>It's just so campy.

2:02:54.720 --> 2:02:58.280
<v Speaker 1>It's heroin. It's our own personal brand of heroine cannot

2:02:58.320 --> 2:03:01.200
<v Speaker 1>be explained. I feel like I have a similar It's

2:03:01.240 --> 2:03:05.840
<v Speaker 1>how I feel about Titanic, and that relationship isn't quite

2:03:05.840 --> 2:03:08.760
<v Speaker 1>so problematic, but I would still argue that it's pretty

2:03:08.880 --> 2:03:11.680
<v Speaker 1>problematic between drag and Rose. Sure, and I've seen this

2:03:11.760 --> 2:03:15.640
<v Speaker 1>movie going on two hundred times now and it's my

2:03:15.720 --> 2:03:19.200
<v Speaker 1>comfort movie. And I also love that Contra points in

2:03:19.280 --> 2:03:23.960
<v Speaker 1>her video references Titanic constantly, so that made me feel

2:03:24.080 --> 2:03:25.360
<v Speaker 1>all warm and fuzzy inside.

2:03:25.360 --> 2:03:29.320
<v Speaker 2>But millennial canon, you one must reference Titanic.

2:03:29.440 --> 2:03:31.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm just like, I'm not even generally compelled by

2:03:32.160 --> 2:03:36.560
<v Speaker 1>romantic stories, but every once in a while, something like

2:03:36.600 --> 2:03:39.120
<v Speaker 1>Titanic or something like Twilight, I'm just like, I can't

2:03:39.120 --> 2:03:42.800
<v Speaker 1>stop watching and we just don't know why.

2:03:43.120 --> 2:03:46.640
<v Speaker 2>Whether we like it or not. Twilight is a generational text.

2:03:46.720 --> 2:03:49.560
<v Speaker 2>And that's not to say that it's good, right, but

2:03:49.760 --> 2:03:53.200
<v Speaker 2>it is a generational touch point, and I think that

2:03:53.840 --> 2:03:57.680
<v Speaker 2>it is worth engaging with. Yeah, because there's something about

2:03:57.720 --> 2:04:00.840
<v Speaker 2>it that keeps some of the great minds of our

2:04:00.880 --> 2:04:06.720
<v Speaker 2>generation really really really loving it. Yeah, there's something to it,

2:04:06.800 --> 2:04:12.680
<v Speaker 2>and it is ultimately kind of like a weird Mormon fantasy.

2:04:13.440 --> 2:04:16.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but maybe that's.

2:04:15.960 --> 2:04:18.240
<v Speaker 2>The shit we like and we should be asking why.

2:04:18.600 --> 2:04:23.280
<v Speaker 1>And that's what we've done for two hours here today.

2:04:24.680 --> 2:04:27.480
<v Speaker 2>It does pass the factel tests. It does pass the fact.

2:04:28.000 --> 2:04:30.040
<v Speaker 2>The last thing I want to say is Renee is

2:04:30.040 --> 2:04:33.240
<v Speaker 2>a bad mom. Yeah, sorry, she's a bad mom. Yeah.

2:04:33.360 --> 2:04:35.640
<v Speaker 2>I know that she's supposed to seem quirky, but I'm like, no,

2:04:35.760 --> 2:04:38.440
<v Speaker 2>this is quirky in this context. Is negligent.

2:04:38.840 --> 2:04:41.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, she doesn't answer her phone, she like loses her

2:04:41.960 --> 2:04:46.680
<v Speaker 3>phone charger too, Like, how's your kid supposed to contact you. Yeah,

2:04:46.800 --> 2:04:47.920
<v Speaker 3>call them from a payphone.

2:04:48.160 --> 2:04:51.280
<v Speaker 1>Your kid is getting run over by vans in parking

2:04:51.320 --> 2:04:53.800
<v Speaker 1>lots and attacked by vampires constantly.

2:04:53.920 --> 2:04:56.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, especially if your kid has a chronic condition of

2:04:56.960 --> 2:05:00.840
<v Speaker 2>falling down. Yeah, you're just gonna We've heard in a

2:05:01.520 --> 2:05:03.160
<v Speaker 2>very slippery climate.

2:05:03.520 --> 2:05:07.839
<v Speaker 1>Slippery it's cold and wet there, slippery place.

2:05:08.120 --> 2:05:12.440
<v Speaker 3>I'm so curious if, like if Bella has what's called

2:05:12.520 --> 2:05:13.839
<v Speaker 3>Ailer's DOWNLM syndrome.

2:05:14.360 --> 2:05:14.520
<v Speaker 1>Mm.

2:05:14.760 --> 2:05:16.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, because there's there's different subsets of it, but one

2:05:16.840 --> 2:05:20.400
<v Speaker 3>of them is like hypermobility, and a lot of the

2:05:20.440 --> 2:05:23.640
<v Speaker 3>times people with Ailors downland syndrome are prone to more

2:05:23.800 --> 2:05:28.080
<v Speaker 3>like accidents. I haven't been formally diagnosed with Ailor's downland syndrome,

2:05:28.080 --> 2:05:30.520
<v Speaker 3>but I do have hypermobility, and I do exhibit some

2:05:30.640 --> 2:05:34.720
<v Speaker 3>of the clumsiness that Bella has. Like a lot of

2:05:34.800 --> 2:05:37.440
<v Speaker 3>things fall out of my hands quite easily. So, like,

2:05:37.480 --> 2:05:41.080
<v Speaker 3>I'm so curious about if that's like Ailor's download syndrome,

2:05:41.160 --> 2:05:45.880
<v Speaker 3>like coated you know, in some capacity. Interesting But anyways,

2:05:46.120 --> 2:05:48.240
<v Speaker 3>that's just yeah, fun fact.

2:05:48.400 --> 2:05:51.320
<v Speaker 1>I guess No, I didn't know that, right, I mean

2:05:51.320 --> 2:05:55.839
<v Speaker 1>it makes you wonder about different attributes that certain characters

2:05:55.840 --> 2:06:00.240
<v Speaker 1>are imbued with right, right, that like probably have some

2:06:00.440 --> 2:06:02.600
<v Speaker 1>underlying thing that the author.

2:06:02.440 --> 2:06:04.680
<v Speaker 3>Didn't didn't intend fully.

2:06:04.440 --> 2:06:08.560
<v Speaker 1>Understand, or just like observed in other people but didn't understand,

2:06:08.600 --> 2:06:11.480
<v Speaker 1>like oh that person has a disability, or you know,

2:06:11.520 --> 2:06:13.000
<v Speaker 1>whatever the case may be.

2:06:13.480 --> 2:06:19.160
<v Speaker 2>Speaking of disability. While Gil Birmingham, who plays Billy Black,

2:06:20.400 --> 2:06:25.440
<v Speaker 2>is a native actor, which is better than we can

2:06:25.480 --> 2:06:29.640
<v Speaker 2>say of one Taylor Lautner, he is playing a disabled

2:06:29.720 --> 2:06:32.800
<v Speaker 2>character and is not himself disabled, which I think is

2:06:32.800 --> 2:06:37.160
<v Speaker 2>always worth calling out. Certainly, which isn't a criticism of

2:06:37.160 --> 2:06:41.760
<v Speaker 2>Gil Birmingham, because I know indigenous actors have enough difficulty

2:06:41.880 --> 2:06:44.120
<v Speaker 2>being cast in the first place, but that is again

2:06:44.360 --> 2:06:49.000
<v Speaker 2>just fully a failure of the production to prioritize any

2:06:49.040 --> 2:06:53.840
<v Speaker 2>sort of inclusivity in their casting. And outside of that,

2:06:53.920 --> 2:06:56.000
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it is a very white story. There is

2:06:56.040 --> 2:07:01.560
<v Speaker 2>some diversity in Forks, Washington, but the characters who are

2:07:01.600 --> 2:07:07.760
<v Speaker 2>not white tend to have mysteriously small roles, such as

2:07:07.800 --> 2:07:10.480
<v Speaker 2>I think, Eric, Angela and Tyler I think are the

2:07:10.680 --> 2:07:15.120
<v Speaker 2>three non white students, and they comparatively to like Mike

2:07:15.440 --> 2:07:19.560
<v Speaker 2>and Dana Kendrick I don't remember Jessica, they get way

2:07:19.560 --> 2:07:21.800
<v Speaker 2>more screen time, They get way more focus. It's the

2:07:21.800 --> 2:07:23.280
<v Speaker 2>white students we're paying attention to.

2:07:23.680 --> 2:07:26.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, as we were hinting at earlier, the movie does

2:07:26.840 --> 2:07:28.160
<v Speaker 1>pass the Bechdel.

2:07:27.800 --> 2:07:31.800
<v Speaker 2>Test not well, No, but it does not well.

2:07:32.080 --> 2:07:35.800
<v Speaker 1>But it's there. But again, that's that's nothing compared to

2:07:36.440 --> 2:07:40.320
<v Speaker 1>the Nipple scale, the Bechdel cast nipple scale, in which

2:07:40.600 --> 2:07:46.360
<v Speaker 1>we rated the movie examining it through an intersectional feminist

2:07:46.760 --> 2:07:50.480
<v Speaker 1>lens zero to five nipples. M I wonder what we

2:07:50.520 --> 2:07:52.480
<v Speaker 1>gave it on the first episode. I do not remember.

2:07:52.840 --> 2:07:55.280
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna look it up, but you I won't tell you.

2:07:55.280 --> 2:07:58.400
<v Speaker 2>You have to decide, and then I'll hold this secret.

2:07:58.680 --> 2:08:02.720
<v Speaker 1>Okay, even though we've had a much more nuanced conversation

2:08:03.040 --> 2:08:04.440
<v Speaker 1>than the first go around.

2:08:04.760 --> 2:08:07.080
<v Speaker 2>It's a tricky motherfucker. It really is.

2:08:07.520 --> 2:08:08.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it really is.

2:08:09.440 --> 2:08:13.640
<v Speaker 1>But I still don't think this movie has a net

2:08:13.800 --> 2:08:17.800
<v Speaker 1>good impact on society, or at least not for young

2:08:17.840 --> 2:08:22.280
<v Speaker 1>people watching it. I think for people who maybe watched

2:08:22.280 --> 2:08:26.480
<v Speaker 1>it as a young person and took the messaging from

2:08:26.520 --> 2:08:29.400
<v Speaker 1>it which was reductive and harmful, and then had to

2:08:29.760 --> 2:08:31.879
<v Speaker 1>unlearn a lot of stuff. But again, as we discussed,

2:08:31.880 --> 2:08:36.600
<v Speaker 1>that's not just Twilight's fault. That's a whole cluster of

2:08:37.240 --> 2:08:41.839
<v Speaker 1>movies and other media that were presenting a very similar

2:08:42.320 --> 2:08:47.120
<v Speaker 1>toxic dynamic and framing it as ideal and romantic and

2:08:47.640 --> 2:08:50.720
<v Speaker 1>something to strive for. So this is just one entry

2:08:50.760 --> 2:08:56.640
<v Speaker 1>of many things that did that. But this was so

2:08:56.920 --> 2:09:02.080
<v Speaker 1>popular and so consumed by so many people who were

2:09:02.440 --> 2:09:06.480
<v Speaker 1>adversely affected by it. But it does have this weird

2:09:06.680 --> 2:09:12.400
<v Speaker 1>cultural legacy. I don't know. The representation of Indigenous people

2:09:12.480 --> 2:09:16.920
<v Speaker 1>is absolutely abhorrent and there's no defending it whatsoever, and

2:09:17.120 --> 2:09:20.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna focus on that as the basis for my rating.

2:09:20.600 --> 2:09:23.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, it's an intersectional podcast that makes sense.

2:09:23.520 --> 2:09:28.840
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yes, So it's gonna be one and a half

2:09:28.840 --> 2:09:32.440
<v Speaker 1>for two nipples. I think I'll say one and a

2:09:32.480 --> 2:09:36.520
<v Speaker 1>half nipples, but it is. I'd say it's like an

2:09:36.520 --> 2:09:38.480
<v Speaker 1>eight out of ten on the Caitlin Rompometer.

2:09:38.840 --> 2:09:40.920
<v Speaker 2>I mean the baseball scene hits.

2:09:41.120 --> 2:09:43.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but yeah, one and a half nipples, and I'll

2:09:43.520 --> 2:09:48.080
<v Speaker 1>give them to a spider monkey, no specific spider monkey,

2:09:48.120 --> 2:09:49.320
<v Speaker 1>which is spider monkeys.

2:09:49.360 --> 2:09:54.240
<v Speaker 2>I guess in general, I'm gonna go one nipple. I think,

2:09:55.120 --> 2:09:58.920
<v Speaker 2>and I say that feeling weirdly defensive of this movie

2:09:58.960 --> 2:10:01.120
<v Speaker 2>at different points in the episode. I think that this

2:10:01.200 --> 2:10:04.560
<v Speaker 2>movie is cultural imp I mean, I can't say what

2:10:04.600 --> 2:10:07.320
<v Speaker 2>the cultural impact is on the whole. I do think

2:10:07.360 --> 2:10:11.680
<v Speaker 2>that this franchise has a really weird, interesting history that

2:10:11.920 --> 2:10:16.080
<v Speaker 2>continues to either delight or haunt us, depending on how

2:10:16.080 --> 2:10:18.600
<v Speaker 2>we feel about it. I think that, you know, it's

2:10:18.800 --> 2:10:20.760
<v Speaker 2>clearly going to be with us for a while. People

2:10:20.760 --> 2:10:22.800
<v Speaker 2>still have a lot of interest in talking about it

2:10:22.840 --> 2:10:26.960
<v Speaker 2>and revisiting it. And I also, you know, this is

2:10:27.000 --> 2:10:29.880
<v Speaker 2>something that a lot of young people were ashamed to

2:10:30.160 --> 2:10:34.440
<v Speaker 2>enjoy and therefore could not start a lot of conversations

2:10:34.640 --> 2:10:39.000
<v Speaker 2>about why that was at the time. I think it

2:10:39.080 --> 2:10:42.440
<v Speaker 2>is like really interesting. I mean, Bella, you know, bless

2:10:42.480 --> 2:10:45.000
<v Speaker 2>her heart, she's giving nothing. She never has been, she

2:10:45.120 --> 2:10:48.560
<v Speaker 2>never will be. And I you know, that's who Bella is.

2:10:49.280 --> 2:10:51.920
<v Speaker 2>And I know that someone's gonna yell at me about that.

2:10:52.160 --> 2:10:55.280
<v Speaker 2>And you know, I do think that there is this

2:10:55.560 --> 2:10:59.640
<v Speaker 2>very conservative fantasy to some extent that has played out

2:10:59.640 --> 2:11:03.120
<v Speaker 2>throughout these movies of Bella does find some agency, but

2:11:03.120 --> 2:11:05.360
<v Speaker 2>it's mainly through marriage and motherhood and you know, all

2:11:05.360 --> 2:11:07.280
<v Speaker 2>this stuff. We all we'll talk about this in later episodes.

2:11:07.760 --> 2:11:11.040
<v Speaker 2>For this, you know, I did see myself in Bella

2:11:11.160 --> 2:11:13.480
<v Speaker 2>to some extent as a kid where it was like

2:11:14.000 --> 2:11:16.880
<v Speaker 2>I didn't feel lighting. In the book, they sort of

2:11:16.920 --> 2:11:19.560
<v Speaker 2>harp on this a little more of like Bella has

2:11:19.640 --> 2:11:23.600
<v Speaker 2>never been recognized as attractive or someone who's interesting, and

2:11:23.640 --> 2:11:26.560
<v Speaker 2>all of a sudden, she's somewhere where she's the most interesting,

2:11:27.200 --> 2:11:31.200
<v Speaker 2>attractive person in the world, and who what misfit wouldn't

2:11:31.240 --> 2:11:34.440
<v Speaker 2>be pulled in by that? And I think that a

2:11:34.480 --> 2:11:37.600
<v Speaker 2>lot of people who felt out of place, that fantasy

2:11:37.960 --> 2:11:40.960
<v Speaker 2>is so appealing to be desired and for you to

2:11:41.040 --> 2:11:44.000
<v Speaker 2>be often in a dangerous way, but in a dangerous

2:11:44.040 --> 2:11:47.360
<v Speaker 2>way that not a lot of people understood in our generation,

2:11:47.560 --> 2:11:51.720
<v Speaker 2>but like to be wanted. And I think that that's

2:11:51.800 --> 2:11:53.800
<v Speaker 2>part of why I understand the appeal and part of

2:11:53.920 --> 2:11:57.160
<v Speaker 2>what still doesn't sit well with me because of the

2:11:57.200 --> 2:12:01.240
<v Speaker 2>intended audience, where you know, it's not Stephanie Meyer's job

2:12:01.320 --> 2:12:04.680
<v Speaker 2>to raise us, but I do think it is like

2:12:04.760 --> 2:12:08.640
<v Speaker 2>the responsibility of others and the larger culture to not

2:12:08.760 --> 2:12:14.560
<v Speaker 2>just reinforce someone's horny dreams, worst instincts. But there's still

2:12:14.640 --> 2:12:18.120
<v Speaker 2>so much getting back to what we've been talking about, Yeah,

2:12:18.280 --> 2:12:22.480
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I'm docking mainly for indigenous representation and the

2:12:22.520 --> 2:12:26.600
<v Speaker 2>one visit to the library approach and no further compensation

2:12:26.800 --> 2:12:30.800
<v Speaker 2>or acknowledgement of the people whose culture you are profiting

2:12:30.800 --> 2:12:35.480
<v Speaker 2>off of directly and misunderstanding and misrepresenting. There's just absolutely

2:12:35.520 --> 2:12:38.920
<v Speaker 2>no excuse for that. The feminist discourse around this. I'm

2:12:38.960 --> 2:12:43.000
<v Speaker 2>gonna just be like, go with God, whatever you like there.

2:12:43.040 --> 2:12:44.720
<v Speaker 2>I have read every take in the world, and I

2:12:44.760 --> 2:12:47.560
<v Speaker 2>don't know which is right to me. I liked Bela

2:12:48.120 --> 2:12:50.760
<v Speaker 2>because I was like, I wear these shoes, but ultimately,

2:12:50.880 --> 2:12:53.880
<v Speaker 2>on revisit, I do think she's boring. I think that

2:12:54.320 --> 2:12:56.960
<v Speaker 2>Edward's like, I don't see what you're thinking because she's not.

2:12:58.200 --> 2:13:02.480
<v Speaker 2>But ultimately I think Team Jacob was the right team.

2:13:02.640 --> 2:13:07.080
<v Speaker 2>One nipple and I am going to give that nipple

2:13:07.280 --> 2:13:11.360
<v Speaker 2>to the truck. I thought the truck was cool. Oh sure,

2:13:11.440 --> 2:13:13.320
<v Speaker 2>I liked the truck. I don't care if it's not

2:13:13.360 --> 2:13:15.040
<v Speaker 2>like other girls truck, I would drop that truck.

2:13:15.200 --> 2:13:20.360
<v Speaker 1>Okay, awesome, Dean Ally, how about you nipples?

2:13:20.440 --> 2:13:24.840
<v Speaker 3>Nipples? I'm thinking I think I go for like one

2:13:24.880 --> 2:13:27.360
<v Speaker 3>and a half basically, Like you know, for a lot

2:13:27.400 --> 2:13:29.960
<v Speaker 3>of the reasons that you both have mentioned, you know,

2:13:30.000 --> 2:13:34.120
<v Speaker 3>the indigenous representation is lacking so many different problems with

2:13:34.200 --> 2:13:39.600
<v Speaker 3>this movie. Portraying a toxic relationship as an ideal. It's

2:13:39.640 --> 2:13:43.040
<v Speaker 3>really hard to give this movie anything more than one

2:13:43.040 --> 2:13:47.920
<v Speaker 3>and a half nipples. And I think for me, one

2:13:47.920 --> 2:13:51.080
<v Speaker 3>of the most like iconic scenes in the movie is

2:13:51.120 --> 2:13:55.600
<v Speaker 3>the baseball scene with Alice and her pitch with her leg.

2:13:55.800 --> 2:13:58.879
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, the little kick, Yes, oh my gosh,

2:13:59.000 --> 2:13:59.960
<v Speaker 1>what is she doing?

2:14:00.640 --> 2:14:04.600
<v Speaker 3>It's honestly, it's fucking beautiful. And I think that's when

2:14:04.640 --> 2:14:07.839
<v Speaker 3>I realized I was bisexual, was when I watched Alice

2:14:07.920 --> 2:14:11.640
<v Speaker 3>pitch during the baseball scene, and I think that's like

2:14:12.080 --> 2:14:15.520
<v Speaker 3>a really beautiful thing. So I think at the end

2:14:15.560 --> 2:14:17.880
<v Speaker 3>of the day, like you know, when I was younger,

2:14:18.040 --> 2:14:22.440
<v Speaker 3>I was team Edward, but in reality, like I'm definitely

2:14:22.440 --> 2:14:23.560
<v Speaker 3>like team Alice.

2:14:23.600 --> 2:14:27.000
<v Speaker 2>Like all the way, Alice is an awesome character.

2:14:27.920 --> 2:14:30.200
<v Speaker 3>I like her, yeah, and like even like when I

2:14:30.200 --> 2:14:33.320
<v Speaker 3>think about her relationship to Jasper, which we didn't really

2:14:33.320 --> 2:14:36.800
<v Speaker 3>talk about, but like I feel like she is kind

2:14:36.840 --> 2:14:40.080
<v Speaker 3>of more of like the dom and the relationship she's like,

2:14:40.720 --> 2:14:45.040
<v Speaker 3>I think she's like takes control and I really like

2:14:45.160 --> 2:14:49.840
<v Speaker 3>that about her. And I see myself more and more

2:14:50.080 --> 2:14:55.560
<v Speaker 3>in in Alice than any other character in the movie. Sadly,

2:14:55.640 --> 2:14:58.120
<v Speaker 3>I cannot lift my leg like that when I pitch.

2:14:58.320 --> 2:15:02.920
<v Speaker 3>I don't even pitch. I don't play sports. I do

2:15:03.040 --> 2:15:06.680
<v Speaker 3>visit the library though. But yeah, I think I'm going

2:15:06.760 --> 2:15:11.920
<v Speaker 3>to give one nipple to Alice and her leg and

2:15:12.000 --> 2:15:15.920
<v Speaker 3>then the other half nipple. I think I'm going to

2:15:15.960 --> 2:15:20.000
<v Speaker 3>give it to mister Molina, the teacher, because it's a

2:15:20.040 --> 2:15:21.080
<v Speaker 3>fellow educator.

2:15:22.160 --> 2:15:23.760
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, you're so right.

2:15:24.040 --> 2:15:26.560
<v Speaker 1>No relation to Alfred Molina.

2:15:26.080 --> 2:15:29.560
<v Speaker 3>But I know how crazy you are about Alfred Molina. Yes,

2:15:29.800 --> 2:15:31.240
<v Speaker 3>but yeah, I think I'm going to give half a

2:15:31.320 --> 2:15:34.360
<v Speaker 3>nipple to mister Molina because as a fellow educator, like

2:15:34.720 --> 2:15:41.040
<v Speaker 3>he's just so earnest about science and you know, really

2:15:41.040 --> 2:15:46.120
<v Speaker 3>getting these students like invested in STEM. So I really

2:15:46.160 --> 2:15:49.560
<v Speaker 3>appreciate that about mister Molina. Yeah, I think he says

2:15:49.560 --> 2:15:54.200
<v Speaker 3>like compost is cool, and it is compost is cool.

2:15:55.080 --> 2:15:57.800
<v Speaker 3>So I'm gonna give half a nipple to mister Molina.

2:15:58.440 --> 2:16:02.040
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, hell yeah, amazing, you know, L like, thank you

2:16:02.080 --> 2:16:04.480
<v Speaker 1>so much for joining.

2:16:04.160 --> 2:16:06.640
<v Speaker 3>Us, thank you for having me, yes.

2:16:06.640 --> 2:16:09.040
<v Speaker 2>And thank you for choosing the exact right shirt.

2:16:09.280 --> 2:16:12.920
<v Speaker 3>I mean I always do, but especially today.

2:16:14.240 --> 2:16:17.760
<v Speaker 1>Tell us where people can find you online? Check out

2:16:17.800 --> 2:16:19.760
<v Speaker 1>your work plug.

2:16:19.560 --> 2:16:22.040
<v Speaker 3>Away so You can find a lot of info about

2:16:22.080 --> 2:16:26.920
<v Speaker 3>me on my website at dnlliantigua dot com. You can

2:16:26.920 --> 2:16:30.960
<v Speaker 3>follow me on Instagram at nowfel thirteen and that's n

2:16:31.000 --> 2:16:34.879
<v Speaker 3>e l l f e L L one three And yes,

2:16:34.920 --> 2:16:37.039
<v Speaker 3>I've had that screen name and I've used it for

2:16:37.080 --> 2:16:41.360
<v Speaker 3>everything since I was thirteen. And yeah, I do a

2:16:41.400 --> 2:16:44.920
<v Speaker 3>lot of like poetry readings and events locally, but I'm

2:16:44.920 --> 2:16:47.400
<v Speaker 3>also traveling to like universities, and you can find all

2:16:47.480 --> 2:16:51.120
<v Speaker 3>the info about my events on my website. My upcoming

2:16:51.720 --> 2:16:55.680
<v Speaker 3>events are mass Poetry Festival in Salem, Massachusetts, coming up

2:16:56.040 --> 2:16:57.680
<v Speaker 3>at the end of May, and I don't know when

2:16:57.680 --> 2:16:59.840
<v Speaker 3>this podcast will be coming out, but I think.

2:16:59.720 --> 2:17:01.280
<v Speaker 2>Before then, maybe before then.

2:17:01.400 --> 2:17:03.720
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's the thing that I do. I'm one of

2:17:03.720 --> 2:17:07.480
<v Speaker 3>the headlining poets. Hey, oh my god, so come and

2:17:07.520 --> 2:17:09.560
<v Speaker 3>listen to my poetry and I'll be on a panel

2:17:09.600 --> 2:17:14.560
<v Speaker 3>as well with some other LATINX writers. So yeah, that's

2:17:14.560 --> 2:17:16.280
<v Speaker 3>where you can find me and learn more about me.

2:17:17.000 --> 2:17:20.039
<v Speaker 3>Oh also, I almost for I have two books. My

2:17:20.080 --> 2:17:23.640
<v Speaker 3>first one is Ugly Music, and my second collection came

2:17:23.640 --> 2:17:27.240
<v Speaker 3>out last year with Copper Canyon Press. It's called Good Monster,

2:17:27.400 --> 2:17:30.680
<v Speaker 3>and you can find those where books are sold be

2:17:30.879 --> 2:17:33.520
<v Speaker 3>like Bella, buy it independent booksellers.

2:17:33.959 --> 2:17:38.160
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yes, that's Bella's true triumph of Twilight one. She

2:17:38.240 --> 2:17:39.040
<v Speaker 2>shops local.

2:17:39.760 --> 2:17:43.600
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yeah, she says Amazon, No, thank you, I'm going

2:17:43.640 --> 2:17:46.959
<v Speaker 1>into a brick and mortar store and buying local. The

2:17:47.000 --> 2:17:50.040
<v Speaker 1>best way to support our show is to subscribe to

2:17:50.720 --> 2:17:56.120
<v Speaker 1>our Patreon aka Matreon, where we release two bonus episodes

2:17:56.160 --> 2:18:01.760
<v Speaker 1>every single month, centering an amazing genius Brilliant plus access

2:18:01.800 --> 2:18:06.440
<v Speaker 1>to the entire back catalog, which is nearing two hundred episodes,

2:18:06.520 --> 2:18:12.160
<v Speaker 1>so lots of hashtag content over there at patreon dot

2:18:12.240 --> 2:18:15.600
<v Speaker 1>com slash Bechdel Cast. Also check out our link tree

2:18:15.879 --> 2:18:21.480
<v Speaker 1>link tree slash Bechdel Cast for information about different things.

2:18:21.480 --> 2:18:24.560
<v Speaker 1>If we have upcoming shows that'll be there. If we have,

2:18:25.280 --> 2:18:29.039
<v Speaker 1>we have our letterboxed link on there, all kinds of stuff.

2:18:29.520 --> 2:18:35.760
<v Speaker 1>And with that, let's irrevocably get in our rusty old

2:18:36.120 --> 2:18:40.920
<v Speaker 1>red pickup truck. Uh huh and zoom zoom into the

2:18:41.000 --> 2:18:50.960
<v Speaker 1>Twilight Sky. Okay, I don't know, Bye bye. The Bechdel

2:18:51.000 --> 2:18:54.640
<v Speaker 1>Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Derante

2:18:54.640 --> 2:18:58.680
<v Speaker 1>and Jamie Loftus, produced by Sophie Lickterman, edited by Mola Board.

2:18:59.160 --> 2:19:02.320
<v Speaker 1>Our theme song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals

2:19:02.360 --> 2:19:06.320
<v Speaker 1>by Katherine Voskresenski. Our logo and merch is designed by

2:19:06.400 --> 2:19:10.480
<v Speaker 1>Jamie Loftus and a special thanks to Aristotle Assevedo. For

2:19:10.600 --> 2:19:14.640
<v Speaker 1>more information about the podcast, please visit Linktree Slash Bechtelcast