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Speaker 1: On the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 2: The questions asked if movies have women and them, are

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Speaker 2: all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they

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Speaker 2: have individualism? It's the patriarchy, Zephyn Beast. Start changing it

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Speaker 2: with the Bechdel Cast. Hello Bechdel Cast listeners, who Jamie

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Speaker 2: and Caitlin?

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Speaker 1: Here a little plug at the top.

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Speaker 2: It's all coming together. It's all happening. I am going

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Speaker 2: to be going on a book tour for the paperback

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Speaker 2: release of my book Raw Dog, The Naked Truth about

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Speaker 2: Hot Dogs. Ever heard of it? It is coming out

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Speaker 2: in soft cover this may. If you're hearing this, it

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Speaker 2: is out right now. If you are the kind of

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Speaker 2: person that doesn't want to spend twenty eight dollars out

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Speaker 2: of book, fair enough, we have a more affordable option.

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Speaker 2: And if you haven't purchased the book and you know,

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Speaker 2: maybe you're able to now, you know, it's also a

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Speaker 2: great gift. I've sound so desperate. The thing is, it's

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Speaker 2: a soft cover book, and people love us and.

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Speaker 1: I love a flaccid book.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a floppy little book. And if you do

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Speaker 2: have the hardcover and you're a completionist, there is also

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Speaker 2: a brand new ForWord that I wrote, and also the

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Speaker 2: acknowledgments have been adjusted to acknowledge that my agents were Zionists,

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Speaker 2: so I don't really thank them anymore. So there's a

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Speaker 2: thrilling edition there as well. But there is new stuff

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Speaker 2: in the book and it costs less, and we love that.

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Speaker 2: I will be going on tour throughout the country to

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Speaker 2: promote the new book, and if you're a Bechdel head

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Speaker 2: and you're in the area, this is a really great

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Speaker 2: chance to come and hang out. It's all I'm at bookstores.

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Speaker 2: I did kind of bigger shows the first time around,

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Speaker 2: but this time we're just chilling. So kitling with your permission,

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Speaker 2: I'm just going to rattle off some dates. What if

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Speaker 2: I was like, no, no, click, yeah, the zoom, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to go pee.

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Speaker 1: No please, by all means tell us okay.

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Speaker 2: May thirteenth, twenty twenty five, almost my birthday. So I

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Speaker 2: know I'm missing your birthday. It's an act of violence.

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Speaker 2: I will be at North Fig Bookshop in Los Angeles,

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Speaker 2: hosted by friend of the cast, Julia Clair, May fourteenth.

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Speaker 2: I will be at Carmichael's Bookstore in Louisville, Kentucky on

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Speaker 2: May fifteenth, I will be at the Cambridge Public Library

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Speaker 2: in Massachusetts with the Harvard Bookstore, and I will be

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Speaker 2: in conversation with one of my dear friends, PBS's own

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Speaker 2: Tory Bedford. On the nineteenth of May, I will be

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Speaker 2: in Portland, Maine at Longfellow Books, hosted by friend of

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Speaker 2: the cast Mayo Williams. I am very very excited. On

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Speaker 2: the twentieth, I will be going down to Harrisburg, Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 2: my home state. Know they're going to be begging, They're like,

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Speaker 2: where are they? I will be at the Midtown Scholar

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Speaker 2: Bookstore and Cafe in conversation with Joe Piazza. Then on

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Speaker 2: May twenty first, I will be at the Fountain Bookstore

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Speaker 2: in Richmond, Virginia. And on May twenty second, I will

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Speaker 2: be at Coppersfield Books in Pedaluma, California. And finally, on

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Speaker 2: May thirty first, I will be at Marin Country Mart,

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Speaker 2: which is also with Coppersfield's book in Larkspur, California. So

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Speaker 2: if you live in those areas, please come out. I

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Speaker 2: would love to see you. I'd love to chat. Please

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Speaker 2: recommend your favorite hot dog. Let's talk becktel Cast, Let's

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Speaker 2: do whatever. And there will be dates announced later in

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Speaker 2: the summer. So if you would like a show or

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Speaker 2: a signing to happen in your town, please reach out

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Speaker 2: and I will send it to my publisher and be like, see,

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Speaker 2: I should go there. Anyways, that's a great it's begging

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Speaker 2: works sometimes, and we'll link this full thing in the description.

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Speaker 2: But see you soon. I'm making a little outfit and

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Speaker 2: that's the Jamie Loftus promise.

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Speaker 1: I can't wait to see.

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Speaker 2: So if you click the link in the description, it

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Speaker 2: will take you to the full page where you can

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Speaker 2: register to go to these events. They are all free events,

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Speaker 2: so come and hang out and provided that I get

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Speaker 2: my shit together in time, there will also be speakers

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Speaker 2: from local unions at all of these signings, So come out,

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Speaker 2: make some friends, come hang out, and uh, let's eat.

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Speaker 3: Some hot dogs.

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Speaker 1: Beautiful. We'll throw the link to be able to access

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Speaker 1: registration for the events on our link tree as well

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Speaker 1: link tree slash Bechdel Cast, so there's no excuse not

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Speaker 1: to come.

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Speaker 2: It's free, it's fun. I'll be wearing a little outfit.

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Speaker 2: Come buy the book, yay, enjoy the episode.

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Speaker 1: About three things I was absolutely certain, Oh my god. First,

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Speaker 1: the Bechdel Cast is a podcast, okay. Second, and there

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Speaker 1: was a part of the podcast and I didn't know

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Speaker 1: how potent that part might be. Yeap that thirsted for

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Speaker 1: knowledge and amazing discourse. And Third, the hosts, Caitlin and

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Speaker 1: Jamie were unconditionally and irrevocably in love with each other.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I like it. Thank you, Wow, thank you Stephanie Meyer.

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Speaker 2: She's a Mormon, and they're pretty homophobic. I don't know

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Speaker 2: if she would endoors what.

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Speaker 1: Was just said. I don't think so.

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Speaker 2: But it's what I want. It's what a lot of

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Speaker 2: Twilight fans want. Every fan community wants a queer romance.

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Speaker 2: But sometimes you just end up with Bella and Edward

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Speaker 2: and you got to project the rest. And that's what

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Speaker 2: we're here to talk about today. Welcome to the Bechtel Cast,

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Speaker 2: the podcast where we take your favorite movies and talk

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Speaker 2: about them from an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel

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Speaker 2: Test as a jumping off point for discussion. This is

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Speaker 2: I think one of a handful of episodes that of

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Speaker 2: where we were covering a movie for a second time.

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Speaker 2: We first covered this movie, I did not realize how

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Speaker 2: long ago it was. My brain was not fully developed

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Speaker 2: the last time we covered this movie, were you like

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Speaker 2: how old I was? Twenty four? Whoa as bravely twenty

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Speaker 2: four years old? I was just the last synapses were

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Speaker 2: snapping into place, And so I cannot be held accountable

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Speaker 2: for anything I said in twenty seventeen. You can be

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Speaker 2: held accountable.

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Speaker 1: I am repulsed to even think about what might have

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Speaker 1: happened on that episode. I am afraid to go back

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Speaker 1: and listen to it. We may or may not keep

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Speaker 1: it up, we might delete it. Our guest was my

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Speaker 1: best friend JT, and we just it was only like

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Speaker 1: a few months into the US doing the podcast.

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Speaker 2: I don't think we need to apologize for something we

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Speaker 2: did in twenty seventeen. The reason we're recovering it is because,

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Speaker 2: like a lot of early you know, this was before

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Speaker 2: podcasting was our full time job. We didn't have the

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Speaker 2: time nor the resources to put in as much research

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Speaker 2: as we put into the show now, and most of you,

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Speaker 2: I'm assuming we're not listening back then. So while it

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Speaker 2: was a fun episode, I did not really listen to it.

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Speaker 2: I don't care what I had to say in twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 2: nor should you. But I also think that you know,

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Speaker 2: like intersectional feminist discourse has evolved, thankfully, quite a bit

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Speaker 2: since twenty seventeen. So we have grown, as has the world.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know whatever, There's been a lot of regression,

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Speaker 2: but on a personal level, there's been growth. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: there's also been just like, this is the series people

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Speaker 2: will never shut the fuck up about. It's really interesting

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Speaker 2: to watch in the last and I say that would

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Speaker 2: love because I've watched all of it. Yeah, Twilight discourse

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Speaker 2: is something that just as it begins to die down,

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Speaker 2: there's a new angle, and baby, we're going with it.

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Speaker 2: Like in the last I would say two to three

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Speaker 2: years Twilight discourse, I think because of like the twenty

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Speaker 2: year popularity cycle of things. Sure, people were getting nostalgic

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Speaker 2: for the Twilight years, and now we're talking about it

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Speaker 2: again and there's new things to talk about.

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Speaker 1: We're back in the Twilight zone.

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Speaker 2: We're in the Twilight zone today. And so anyways, if

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Speaker 2: you listen to our first episode, we don't know what

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Speaker 2: it said. We hope we did an okay job. But

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Speaker 2: today we're here to do a better job because we're

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Speaker 2: grown ups now and our brains are working better than ever.

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Speaker 1: Well, I wouldn't say that necessary.

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Speaker 2: Well not Caylyn, Mine's better than no, I'm kidding.

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Speaker 1: Mine is descending into mush.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so maybe we were working on the same amount

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Speaker 2: of brain power cumulatively that we were in twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 2: but the thoughts will be different. Yeah, okay, but we're

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Speaker 2: using the Benal tests and jumping off point. Caitlin, what

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Speaker 2: is that? I forget?

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Speaker 1: Well, my amazing memory will tell you. It's a media

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Speaker 1: metric created by cartoonist Alice and Bechdel, sometimes called the

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Speaker 1: Bechdel Wallace Test. There's many versions of it. We require that,

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Speaker 1: in order to pass, two characters of a marginalized gender

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Speaker 1: must have names, they must speak to each other, and

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Speaker 1: their conversation has to be about something other than a man.

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Speaker 1: But you know, it's just a jumping off point. It's

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Speaker 1: not the end all be all. There's much more to discuss,

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Speaker 1: and in the case of the Twilight Saga, so much

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Speaker 1: to discuss.

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Speaker 2: We talked about it, I'm sure a lot of things

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Speaker 2: in our first episode, but it turns out there's actually

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Speaker 2: fifty more things to talk about than we initially realized,

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Speaker 2: and so we have brought in an expert, an enthusiast,

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Speaker 2: someone who has spent time in the trenches with the

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Speaker 2: twyhards to come and educate us.

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Speaker 1: Today, she's a poet an educator. She's the author of

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Speaker 1: two poetry collections, former poet Laureate of Portsmouth, New Hampshire,

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Speaker 1: a host of Bread and Poetry podcast It's Danelli Antigua.

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Speaker 1: Hello and welcome.

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Speaker 3: Hello, Hello, Hi, Hi, Hi God.

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Speaker 1: Tell us what is your relationship to Twilight?

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Speaker 3: Oh? Where shall I begin? I think my relationship with

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Speaker 3: Twilight first came from the books. I started reading the

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Speaker 3: books when I was a teenager and fell in love

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Speaker 3: with those first. And I had a really strange upbringing.

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Speaker 3: I was raised in a cult, and around the years

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Speaker 3: where I started reading the Twilight books, I was starting

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Speaker 3: to emerge from the kind of like sheltered cocoon that

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Speaker 3: I was in for so many years. So I was

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Speaker 3: about eighteen nineteen years old, and when the movies came out,

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Speaker 3: I was just like first experiencing life in the world,

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Speaker 3: in the secular world, and Twilight was my I almost

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Speaker 3: like my rum spring on. It was my like coming

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Speaker 3: out into society. And I remember when I watched Twilight,

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Speaker 3: I went to the midnight premiere because I was one

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Speaker 3: of those like midnight premiere bitches. I was wearing my

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Speaker 3: Team Edward shirt. I was wearing a Tutu leg warmers.

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Speaker 2: We saw the pictures. They're incredible.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you. I was wearing fingerless gloves that I

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Speaker 3: got a hot topic, like, I just like went all out,

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Speaker 3: and I remember buying a Noss from like the gas station,

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Speaker 3: and I went to and I went to the midnight

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Speaker 3: premiere and it was like just life changing for me

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Speaker 3: at the time, and many many years have passed since then.

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Speaker 3: I definitely have a different relationship to Twilight at this point,

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Speaker 3: but there's still like that little girl, that like nineteen

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Speaker 3: year old girl who is madly in love with Edward

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Speaker 3: and has you know, posters of him in her bedroom

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Speaker 3: and shit, like I was so obsessed. That might be,

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Speaker 3: but I'm sure there's more. I'm sure there's more.

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Speaker 1: Well share whatever comes up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, truly, don't hesitate. This is a safe space for twyhearts.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you, Jamie.

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Speaker 1: Remind us what's your relationship?

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Speaker 2: Oh gosh, I wonder if I said anything defensive in

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Speaker 2: my first when we talked about this movie like eight

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Speaker 2: years ago.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you were twenty four, so I.

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Speaker 2: Can't be accountable for what I did when I was

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Speaker 2: twenty four years old, a full grown adult. So I

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Speaker 2: read the books. I think, maybe not right when they

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Speaker 2: came out, but like they definitely were gathering steam in

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Speaker 2: the middle school contingency as they were coming out. I

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Speaker 2: remember my mom introduced me to them because my mom

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Speaker 2: was both really into Twilight and Fifty Shades of Gray,

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Speaker 2: And to this day, I'm positive she has no idea

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Speaker 2: that Fifty Shades is Horny or Twilight for like non

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Speaker 2: Mormon Twilight fanfit. Basically yes, but she was really into

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Speaker 2: both series and so she I think that there was

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Speaker 2: like this bizarre shame feedback loop going on between the

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Speaker 2: two of us where she would get She got the

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Speaker 2: boxed set of I think the first three Twilight books

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Speaker 2: that were out at the time, and then read them

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Speaker 2: herself and then gave them to me as if to say, like,

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Speaker 2: these are yours. You bought these and then I read them,

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Speaker 2: and I don't know. Weirdly, it feels sort of in

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Speaker 2: conversation with Beliswan herself, where I was very invested in

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Speaker 2: I think, as a lot of tweens are in being

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Speaker 2: not like other girls, and part of being not like

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Speaker 2: other girls to me was not liking Twilight. And part

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Speaker 2: of being not like other girls to me was not

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Speaker 2: liking high school musical, even though I very much enjoyed

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Speaker 2: both of these things in total privacy, like I was

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Speaker 2: completely I vividly remember blowing through the first Twilight book

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Speaker 2: in like this gnarl the old hammock we had in

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Speaker 2: our backyard during the summer when I couldn't be seen

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Speaker 2: or be accounted for, and then literally going to school

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Speaker 2: the next year and being like what's that ew? And

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Speaker 2: then like going the same thing with the Jonas brothers.

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Speaker 2: I went to a Jonas Brothers concert and I was

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Speaker 2: like what is this? Meanwhile I bought a ticket, like

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Speaker 2: I don't know, like it just it's something that young

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Speaker 2: people do.

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Speaker 1: And we can talk about that, like the shame that

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Speaker 1: like culture attaches to do you like something like Twilight,

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Speaker 1: You're a freaking loser because that's for girls.

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Speaker 2: It was a big thing, and I think that it's yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's tied up and like how not like other girl

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Speaker 2: stuff is like internalized misogyny to some extent. Yeah, So

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Speaker 2: I was I was writing high on that meanwhile reading

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Speaker 2: Twilight books, like my life depended on it. By the

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Speaker 2: time the movies came out, I was I saw the

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Speaker 2: first movie. I remember, like I think seeing the first movie.

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Speaker 2: I was in high school by that point, and I

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Speaker 2: was at the tail end of my like so weird

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Speaker 2: that I'm at this movie the day it comes out.

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Speaker 2: How could this have happened? But I did see it

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Speaker 2: the day come out. I kind of fell off after that.

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Speaker 2: I moved on to whatever the fuck I was doing,

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Speaker 2: So I didn't see the other movies. I don't think

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Speaker 2: in theaters, and I'm not even sure to this day

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Speaker 2: if I've seen all of them. I feel like I've

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Speaker 2: only seen one of the because the last one's in

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Speaker 2: two parts. Yes, I don't think i've seen one of them.

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure. I read all the books. I haven't

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Speaker 2: seen all the movies.

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Speaker 3: That might be blasphemy, but I do feel like revisiting

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Speaker 3: the first book.

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Speaker 2: So also, I really over prepared for this episode. I

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Speaker 2: reread the book.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Wow, I walked fourteen miles yesterday just pacing around listening

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Speaker 2: to the audio book, sweating my ass off, being like

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Speaker 2: I gotta get it all in. And then there's also

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Speaker 2: been so much Twilight discourse that there are so many essays.

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Speaker 2: There's one essay I'll be citing a intensively today from

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Speaker 2: Capacious journal Wow that is called still not as Gay

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Speaker 2: as Twilight, postmodern affect, nostalgia and queer Twilight renaissance during

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Speaker 2: the COVID nineteen pandemic, And that is where I think

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Speaker 2: it was during the initial lockdown period where you saw

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Speaker 2: this kind of resurgence of Twilight discourse that has I

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Speaker 2: think was going on well into last year because there

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Speaker 2: was a very popular ContraPoints video that came out on

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Speaker 2: that topic. So I think it went on for nearly

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Speaker 2: five years. But I think because so many people became

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Speaker 2: nostalgic for comfortable feelings during Lockdown, that all of a sudden,

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Speaker 2: Twilight was back. And I watched and engaged with a

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Speaker 2: lot of that, and I don't know, I just like

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Speaker 2: I'm constantly engaging with Twilight. While I would consider myself

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Speaker 2: a casual fan at best. Anyways, rewatching the first movie,

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Speaker 2: it's a good movie. Like I don't know what to say.

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Speaker 2: It's like, there's a lot of issues with it. But

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Speaker 2: when it comes to like do I understand why people

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Speaker 2: absolutely love this movie? And do I feel like it

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Speaker 2: captures this very specific not like other Girls Fantasy one

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Speaker 2: hundred percent, and the soundtrack is still great.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, yes, yeah, so rock and roll.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, super massive black hole, baseball scene. I'm like,

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Speaker 2: you can't do all that.

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Speaker 3: Oh my goodness.

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Speaker 2: The baseball scene is is so hot cinema, It's so good.

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Speaker 2: I love the baseball scene. Everything, Like, the baseball scene's

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Speaker 2: the best part. But I get it. And I also

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Speaker 2: have really enjoyed going through people's you know, reflections on

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Speaker 2: this because there's also a massive queer fan base for

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Speaker 2: this essentially Mormon movie, so we'll get into it. But anyways,

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Speaker 2: Caitlin remind us, what is your history with Twilight?

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Speaker 1: Oh gosh, I'm sure I had a better memory of

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Speaker 1: it on the first episode. But again, I will not

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Speaker 1: be going back to listen to that, and I don't

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Speaker 1: think our listeners should either.

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Speaker 2: Please don't well and just take it down.

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Speaker 1: I mean maybe we will anyway.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what are you edging like Dubella and Edwards?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, anyway, so I the first few books came out,

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Speaker 1: I don't really know the timeline of like what was

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Speaker 1: published when.

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Speaker 2: Two thousand and five, six, seven and eight.

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Speaker 1: Okay, and then thank you so much, and then so

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Speaker 1: the first movie came out in two thousand and eight, right, yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: so it wasn't until probably twenty ten, I would say, again,

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Speaker 1: memory is murky, but it was well after the books

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Speaker 1: had come out, and probably the first one or two

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Speaker 1: movies had come out before. And of course I heard

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Speaker 1: people talking about I have a distinct memory of chatting

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Speaker 1: with some people when I moved to New York, which

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Speaker 1: was in two thousand and eight, and I was talking

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Speaker 1: to a friend and her sister, and it was like

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Speaker 1: a sister older than me, so she was she would

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Speaker 1: have been like in her mid twenties at the time,

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Speaker 1: and she's like, yeah, Twilight is the best thing I've

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Speaker 1: ever read. I want to date Edward Da da da.

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Speaker 1: And I was just like, what are you talking about?

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Speaker 1: What's this Twilight thing? And then the movie started coming out,

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Speaker 1: and because I hate books and I love movies, I

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Speaker 1: was like, Okay, fine, I'll check this out. And I

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Speaker 1: think I don't remember if this was the case or not,

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Speaker 1: but it might have been jt our guest on the

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Speaker 1: first episode that we did on this movie that kind

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Speaker 1: of got me into it. I don't know if he

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Speaker 1: like showed me the first movie.

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Speaker 2: Again, massive queer fan base.

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Speaker 1: Like yeah, yeah, either he showed me the first one

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Speaker 1: or I definitely started watching the other ones with him,

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Speaker 1: to the point where I think I saw Eclipse Breaking

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Speaker 1: Down Part one and two in theaters with him.

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Speaker 2: Oh so you saw you were like on the other half,

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Speaker 2: you're a late Twilight bloomer. Yeah, what did you think

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Speaker 2: of the mo some of these at the time, I'm

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Speaker 2: so cue because that would have been like well into

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Speaker 2: Twilight backlash.

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Speaker 1: Era too, and I was a part of that. I

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Speaker 1: was like, these movies suck. They're bad, and yet I

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Speaker 1: was going to see them.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you're not wrong, but I mean they're not.

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Speaker 1: Okay. Here's the thing. There's a distinction between I like

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Speaker 1: it and this is good, and both of those All

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Speaker 1: of these things are subjective, right right, that's camp. I

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Speaker 1: was like, this is not good and I don't necessarily

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Speaker 1: like it, but I do. There's some weird like I'm

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Speaker 1: compelled by these, I'm entertained by these. I can't stop

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Speaker 1: watching them. I'm not really enjoying myself or am I

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Speaker 1: I don't know, there's like this I cannot explain how

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Speaker 1: I experience.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's like Edward himself, Like everything about him

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Speaker 3: draws you in his voice is smell, the way he

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Speaker 3: looks exactly.

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Speaker 1: But I know that he's dangerous, yeah, and that there's

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Speaker 1: something to be feared about it.

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Speaker 2: What do you think you could outrun him? Do you

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Speaker 2: think you could fight back? Because you couldn't, because you're

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Speaker 2: never gone up.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't. He's killed people.

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Speaker 3: He's like a drug to you. He's like a drug

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Speaker 3: to you.

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Speaker 1: He is my own personal brand of heroine, and I him.

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Speaker 2: That scene is the most hot topic codd scene that

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Speaker 2: has ever been committed to film.

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Speaker 1: It's completely blue.

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Speaker 2: Like this whole movie is blue, and I support it. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know you were team Edward?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 2: I was. Yeah. And then Kaitlyn, did you ever choose

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Speaker 2: a team or were you just team Hater?

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Speaker 1: No? I was hardcore team Jacob.

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Speaker 2: I was team Jacob as well. Yeah, which is canonically,

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Speaker 2: I mean Jacob ends up marrying a baby, yes, yes,

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Speaker 2: which ContraPoints argues is a way of the series having

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Speaker 2: it always of like, hmm, he falls in love with

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Speaker 2: an extent Bella, and this is how they're able to

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Speaker 2: like justify this like polycule that they create.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he like loved her egg, you know, yeah, and

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Speaker 3: you're like.

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Speaker 2: That's well, that's disgusting. It got harder and harder to

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Speaker 2: be team Jacob as the books went on. I will

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Speaker 2: say definitely, because I don't remember very much about Breaking

404
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Speaker 2: Down at all, but I vividly remember the scene where

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Speaker 2: he's like, I'm in love with your unborn baby and

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Speaker 2: being like, no, my team is down. My team is

407
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Speaker 2: my team. We've lost, We've lost, he's in love with

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Speaker 2: the baby. We're cooked.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think I went back and read. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if I finished the first Twilight book or

411
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Speaker 1: just read a good enough of a chunk of it

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Speaker 1: where I did. Basically, I just wanted to confirm that

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Speaker 1: the writing was as bad as I had heard that

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Speaker 1: it was, and I did confirm that. But I didn't

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Speaker 1: read any of the other books. But I have seen

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Speaker 1: I would say I've seen the first Twilight movie probably

417
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Speaker 1: a good fifteen times. Whoa yeah, and then it tapers

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Speaker 1: off like I've only seen Breaking Dawn Part two that

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00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 1: one time in theaters. I'm pretty sure.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:11,639
Speaker 2: I was like, I think I've seen it like at

422
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,159
Speaker 2: least five times, and I don't think I've seen a

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Speaker 2: few of the movies ever.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, really it's weird, Like there are movies that I

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Speaker 1: considered to be my favorite, like among my favorite movies,

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Speaker 1: that I have seen fewer times, and I've seen Twilight,

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Speaker 1: which I would not consider at all to be one

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Speaker 1: of my favorite movies. I cannot explain this phenomenon, and

429
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:34,400
Speaker 1: yet it exists. So I have a weird relationship with Twilight.

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Speaker 1: I think it's trash and yet I know it very well.

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Speaker 2: But I think that's like a very common experience.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, don't humans love trash? Though, Like don't we love trash?

433
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:50,360
Speaker 3: Like reality TV is trash? Sackly, I love McDonald's.

434
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 2: That's trash, but it's good trash, but it's delicious trash.

435
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, except boycott McDonald's.

436
00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 2: But right, right, right, But yes, but the idea behind yes, Yeah,

437
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 2: I don't know. There's been a lot of I think

438
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,640
Speaker 2: in this like most recent past five years, discourse around

439
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:11,400
Speaker 2: Twilight have like moved forward the conversation around this franchise

440
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 2: in an interesting way of like almost getting back to

441
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:20,199
Speaker 2: the shame and like projection that was beneath some but

442
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 2: not all, of the Twilight backlash. That's the thing is,

443
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:27,120
Speaker 2: like it's just very complicated because there's a billion very

444
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 2: valid critiques of this franchise, many of which we'll discuss today. Yes,

445
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 2: and we'll just place here we're not discussing the entire

446
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 2: franchise today because we would never leave the zoom call

447
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 2: if that were the case, right, So we're discussing the

448
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 2: first movie, the book, the you know, cultural sensation at

449
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 2: the time of the first movie today and then we

450
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 2: will cover subsequent movies on the show down the line,

451
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 2: just because it's just like such a broad topic that, Yeah,

452
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 2: if there are certain elements of this franchise you would

453
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 2: like to hear us talk more about, please let us know,

454
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,359
Speaker 2: and we will make a point to discuss that in

455
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 2: future installments. But there's just there really is just like

456
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:14,200
Speaker 2: so so so much to.

457
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 1: Talk about, truly, and let's try to begin. But first

458
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 1: we'll take a quick break and then we'll come back

459
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 1: for the recap and we're back, all right. I'm really

460
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:40,879
Speaker 1: mean during this recap so apology in advance.

461
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 2: Like I like that You're like, I'm a Twilight hater

462
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 2: to the grave, Caitlin, You're not like other she theys You're.

463
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 1: Just not I'm not I am an intellectual no, just kidding.

464
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:54,880
Speaker 3: Didn't you get a film degree somewhere right?

465
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,639
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for bringing something up that I

466
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,439
Speaker 1: would never mention, which is that I do have a

467
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 1: master's degree in screenwriting from Boston University.

468
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's what I thought.

469
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, but again, would never mention it. So I actually

470
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 1: don't even know how anybody knows that because I've never

471
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:12,919
Speaker 1: said it before.

472
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:14,199
Speaker 2: I didn't. I just learning.

473
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:25,679
Speaker 1: Yeah. Anyway, content warning at the top for abusive relationship dynamics, stalking, gaslighting,

474
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 1: things of that nature. And here we go. We open

475
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 1: on a deer in the woods pray if you will,

476
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 1: and there's also a predator something or someone is chasing

477
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 1: the deer and grabs.

478
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 2: It, and then it goes me. This court of this

479
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 2: movie is a real earworm. Shout out Carter Burwell. There's

480
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 2: It's wild how many like really generationally talented people worked

481
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 2: on this movie because Carter Burwell is like iconic. He's

482
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:04,400
Speaker 2: so good.

483
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:08,120
Speaker 1: My favorite part is when it starts out being non

484
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 1: diegetic and then suddenly it's diagetic because Edward is playing

485
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 1: it on the piano the score of the movie, and

486
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 1: you're just like, WHOA.

487
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 2: I like it because I think Carter Burrell is probably

488
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 2: the most famous for being like the Coen Brothers go

489
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 2: to guy. But also he did Twilight, and I support that.

490
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 2: It's a good score.

491
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 1: It's pretty good. Okay, So there's this deer. Then we

492
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:37,120
Speaker 1: cut to Bella Swan played by Kristin Stewart, who is

493
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 1: moving from Phoenix, Arizona because her mom wants to travel

494
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:47,120
Speaker 1: around with her brosif of a husband instead of raise

495
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 1: her teenage daughter.

496
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 2: So, yeah, Renee, Renee's a real piece of work.

497
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 3: Yeah she is.

498
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:58,400
Speaker 1: So Bella gets shipped off to Forks, Washington to live

499
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,679
Speaker 1: with her dad, Arlie Swan.

500
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 2: And while he's hot, a cav includes Charlie Swan, It

501
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,359
Speaker 2: really does, because he's the chief of police of Forks, Washington.

502
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 1: Okay, so he and Bella have a very awkward relationship,

503
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: but he does buy her a truck off of Billy

504
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: Black played by Gil Birmingham. His son is Jacob Black

505
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 1: played by Taylor Lautner, a childhood friend of Bella's. He

506
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:35,880
Speaker 1: mentions that he goes to school on the reservation because

507
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 1: he is a member of the Quillute nation. Even though,

508
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 1: and this is one of the very many valid criticisms

509
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: of this movie, Taylor Latner is not an indigenous actor,

510
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 1: and the representation of Quillute people lots to discuss there.

511
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 2: Well, we'll talk about that further.

512
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, any case, he lives and goes to school

513
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 1: on the will You Reservation, and Bella's like, oh darn,

514
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 1: you were my only friend here, Like it would have

515
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: been nice to know someone at school, but she's not

516
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: even gonna know him.

517
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 2: And Jacob in Twilight Part one Sweetie Pie.

518
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah.

519
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 2: Also Taylor Lautner bad Wig not even in the top

520
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 2: ten problems, but did really strike me in this viewing.

521
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, it's doing a lot of work. It's

522
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 2: like a nicole kidman grade wig.

523
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 1: Yeah. Anyway, So Bella has this new truck and she

524
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 1: loves this busted, rusty gass truck from the nineteen seventies

525
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 1: because she's not like the other girls. Then Bella heads

526
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 1: to school, a bunch of students are like, oh my god,

527
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 1: who are you? You're the coolest and most interesting person

528
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 1: I've ever seen.

529
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 2: This is I think, like, in retrospect, one of the

530
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 2: most interesting dream fulfillments like aspects of the story that

531
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 2: probably made it so appealing, where it's like, what if

532
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 2: you were truly the most normal person with no distinct features,

533
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 2: and yet everyone was obsessed with you.

534
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, like who is Bella Swan? Like we don't know

535
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 3: anything about her hobbies, We don't know really what she likes. Truly,

536
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 3: She's just like blank canvas. But everyone loves that they

537
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 3: can just project whatever they want onto this, like very

538
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 3: boring Bella Swan blank canvas.

539
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 2: Which is like not incredibly like yeah, it's like that's

540
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 2: very common for protagonists. But it's like glaring with Belli

541
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 2: because literally we see her just like sitting in a

542
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 2: room staring into the middle distance when she's not like

543
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 2: talking to Edward Colin. You're like, all right, there's I

544
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 2: know we have. This is a self insert character, but

545
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 2: you got to give her an interest, like it is wild.

546
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:54,479
Speaker 1: Sometimes she reads a book.

547
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 2: Sometimes she does read a book, and they are interestingly

548
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 2: the exact books that Stephanie Meyer's love sorry Stephanie Meyer

549
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 2: singular myyr yeah one Meyer, one Meyer. But yeah, Bella.

550
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 2: I mean that's a very common criticism of her husband

551
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 2: for twenty years. But like it is true.

552
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 1: You know, she doesn't have a personality.

553
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 3: Oh unless clumsy is part of a personality.

554
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 2: Which, oh my god, which in the book is exacerbated

555
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 2: to like such an absurd degree. I clocked literally over

556
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 2: forty mentions in the book of her being like what

557
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 2: if I fall? And Edward's like, I know there's a

558
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 2: big chance you'll fall.

559
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:36,760
Speaker 3: Can you watch where you're going.

560
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 2: I'll make sure you don't trip and die? Like it

561
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 2: just it really is, like it's it's so silly. Yeah,

562
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 2: but it's I mean again, that's the pulling from the

563
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 2: Lizzie Maguire school of heroine. You're like, well, sure she's

564
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 2: conventionally beautiful, but she false.

565
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that doesn't stop everyone at school being obsessed

566
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: with her, including such characters as Eric, Mike Tyler, Jessica

567
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 1: played by Anna Kendrick, and Angela played by Christian Serrados.

568
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 1: So now she has all these new friends immediately, so

569
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 1: her concerns about not having any friends at school where

570
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 1: she didn't have to worry. Then at lunch, Bella spots

571
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 1: a group of hot thirty five year olds, and her

572
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 1: new friends tell her that these are the Cullens, a

573
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 1: family of foster kids who were adopted by doctor Cullen

574
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 1: and who are dating each other, including Rosalie and Emmett.

575
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 1: Are a couple. Alice and Jasper are a couple, although

576
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 1: one of them is single. And this is Edward Cullen

577
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 1: because he's not like other vampires. One of the things

578
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 1: that I don't think I ever fully registered because she

579
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 1: looks so different in this movie, but that I appreciated

580
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: because the other Catherine Hardwick movie we've covered on this

581
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 1: show is thirteen, and Nikki Reid, the star of thir

582
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: and co writer of thirteen, plays Rosalie, which I never

583
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: noticed because again wig like, I just didn't know.

584
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 3: And the makeup, it's the makeup in this movie is horrible,

585
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 3: Like all of the vampires, like you can even tell

586
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 3: if you look at their like collar and their neck,

587
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 3: you can tell that it hasn't been blended correctly.

588
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 2: Oh brutal.

589
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can still see like the pink of their

590
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 3: flesh when they're supposed to be pale as fuck. So

591
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 3: I don't know who the makeup artist was, but you

592
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 3: got to blend all the way down to the neck, honey,

593
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 3: all the way down down.

594
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 1: I wonder if that's why there's so much blue color

595
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 1: correction in the movie, because it's like we got to

596
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 1: hide the bad makeup.

597
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 2: Job, make it blue. Make it blue. Maybe that'd be incredible.

598
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 2: I forget what two thousand movie we were discussing recently

599
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 2: where I also think that the teen fashion of the

600
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 2: late two thousands are doing nobody any favors in this

601
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 2: because I feel like teen fashions of the late two

602
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 2: thousands really aged teenagers. There are so many pictures of

603
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 2: me as like a junior in high school where I'm like,

604
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 2: my aunt could be wearing this, Like I'm wearing these

605
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:26,320
Speaker 2: like ponchos and like long vests and You're like, why

606
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:28,919
Speaker 2: am I wearing what teachers were wearing? But also these

607
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 2: like big fake Victoria's Secret bras that my cousin would

608
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 2: give me, So it's like huge fake titties in like

609
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:37,360
Speaker 2: the most clothing possible.

610
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, the bombshell bra adds two cups, honey.

611
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 2: I used to work in Victoria's Secrets, so I know

612
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 2: all the secrets that was thea My cousin worked there,

613
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 2: and so she's like, Okay, this is going to change

614
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 2: your life, and it didn't. They do look old, though,

615
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 2: they do, yeah with all dudes. Not the actor's fault,

616
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 2: because I think the actors actually are younger than they

617
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,760
Speaker 2: look in the movie. They're all in their twenties.

618
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 1: Oh really, because they come on screen and I'm like,

619
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 1: those people are my contemporaries currently right now as someone

620
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 1: in their late thirties.

621
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 2: No, I think that they're all it's I mean, they're

622
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 2: not high schoolers. I think Kristen Stewart is one of

623
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 2: the only actual high school age actors. Yeah, most of

624
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 2: them are in their twenties, but I think I don't know,

625
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 2: like they were just done dirty.

626
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 1: Yeah. In any case, there's one single Cullen, and it's Edward,

627
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 1: and he and Bella make eyes at each other. Then

628
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 1: they get paired up as lab partners in science class.

629
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 1: Except Edward is repulsed by Bella, although he also can't

630
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:47,320
Speaker 1: stop staring at her. It's this weird like disgust slash

631
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:54,280
Speaker 1: fascination thing that with understand why soon, and she notices

632
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 1: how repulsed he is by her, and she plans to

633
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 1: confront him about the except Edward doesn't show up at

634
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 1: school for days on end, so she can't confront him

635
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 1: right away. Meanwhile, cut to the woods, there's some dangerous

636
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 1: creature who's attacking people on the outskirts of town, so

637
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 1: that's looming over the story. Finally, Edward shows up at

638
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:26,880
Speaker 1: school again, and he's no longer acting completely repulsed by Bella.

639
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 1: He's actually being kind of friendly. And so now they're

640
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 1: looking at an onion under a microscope and we're like,

641
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 1: wait a minute, onions have layers. Shrek, Shrek, Shrek.

642
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 2: Wow, I didn't pick up on that. That's why you

643
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 2: have the master's degree. Yeah, that's exactly right. Yes, Okay,

644
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 2: So they're like now talking kind of about nothing. He

645
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 2: also says something like, you're very difficult for me to

646
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 2: read because he loves making creepy declarations like that.

647
00:36:59,320 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 3: Yeah.

648
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 2: And also that's so, you know, argublate because there's nothing

649
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 2: going on. There's nothing, there's no that was fella hatred. No,

650
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:11,800
Speaker 2: I like Bella, but what is going on behind those

651
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 2: hazel eyes? To borrow a song title?

652
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:18,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and speaking of eye color, she notices that Edward's

653
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 1: eyes are a different color than the last time she

654
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 1: saw him, and he makes an excuse about the fluorescent lighting. Aka,

655
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 1: this is the beginning of him gaslighting her.

656
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 2: And kind of the most egregious ways possible In the movie,

657
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 2: and just having reread the book, they really turn up

658
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:42,480
Speaker 2: the casualness with which the gaslighting happens up to like

659
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 2: a fourteen because also Robert Pattinson's deliveries are so mean sounding,

660
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 2: and I guess the way I imagined it was a

661
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 2: little more like no, no, it couldn't have been. I

662
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:57,879
Speaker 2: mean that more the way I've experienced gaslight of like, no, no,

663
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:02,800
Speaker 2: girl with tiny brain. But he's like, no, it's de

664
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 2: ferorescent lights.

665
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:05,840
Speaker 1: She's a fucking casshle.

666
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 2: Anyways, I do love him. I would marry him.

667
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 3: He talks to her about the weather, and he's like,

668
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:16,359
Speaker 3: why did you move to the Like well, she says

669
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 3: she hates the rain, any cold wet thing, Yeah, she hates.

670
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 3: And then he like giggles.

671
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 1: About it afterward because he's like, I'm cold and wet, yes,

672
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 1: and you're about to fall in love with him, yeah,

673
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:31,839
Speaker 1: So they have really rivet in conversations about such things

674
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 1: as the weather and onions. Anyway, So one day, Tyler,

675
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 1: one of the friends in Bella's friend group, is cruising

676
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 1: through the school parking lot at about sixty miles per

677
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 1: hour and he loses control of his van and nearly

678
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:57,760
Speaker 1: Krene's into Bella, but suddenly Edward is there to save her,

679
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:01,439
Speaker 1: even though he was just fifty feet away from her

680
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 1: like one second ago. But Edward is there and he

681
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:09,840
Speaker 1: stops the van with what seems like superhuman strength. So

682
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 1: Bella is taken to the hospital where she meets doctor

683
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 1: Daddy Cullen. Edward is there too, and Bella is like,

684
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 1: what the hell happened? How did you get to me

685
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 1: so fast? And then he proceeds to gaslight her more

686
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 1: and says that he was already right next to her.

687
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:29,520
Speaker 2: He said, you bunked your head real hard.

688
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:30,719
Speaker 1: You're confused.

689
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 2: It really is like gaslighting one oh one lines like

690
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 2: you fell, Yeah, you must have wonked your head. It's

691
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 2: the lights. You're like, you've had one hundred years to

692
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 2: get better at gaslighting than you are, sir.

693
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay. So from this point onward, now Bella is

694
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:55,400
Speaker 1: like dreaming about Edward, partly because he is fully stalking

695
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,360
Speaker 1: her and sneaking into her bedroom and watching her sleep.

696
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 1: He's also eavesdropped on her conversations. He's being generally cruel

697
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 1: and abusive to her, saying things like we shouldn't be friends,

698
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 1: but also I want to be friends, but you should

699
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 1: stay away from me because I'm not the hero. I'm

700
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 1: the bad guy, and She's like, no, you're a good guy.

701
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 1: Come to the beach with me and my friends. And

702
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 1: he's like, I DK probably not.

703
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 2: He's like, I can't. I can't go to that.

704
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:32,359
Speaker 1: Whatever man, And we're about to find out why because

705
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 1: we cut to the beach called.

706
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:37,319
Speaker 3: La Push La Push La push Baby, which is a

707
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 3: real place, which is.

708
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:43,359
Speaker 1: A real place where the quill Yet people live. Edward

709
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,600
Speaker 1: does not show up, but Jacob and his friends do

710
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, yeah, the Cullens don't come here,

711
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:56,360
Speaker 1: and Jacob proceeds to tell Bella that the quilt people

712
00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:01,359
Speaker 1: are descended from wolves, the Cullens are descended from an

713
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:06,240
Speaker 1: enemy clan, but they've established a treaty as long as

714
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 1: the Cullens stay off Quillute land. So Bella is like,

715
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 1: what's that all about? And she starts investigating. She finds

716
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 1: a book, a Belle Quilliute Mythology, and goes with her

717
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 1: friends to Port Angelis Ever heard of It? No to

718
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:29,839
Speaker 1: buy this book while her friends, Jess and Angela go

719
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 1: prom dress shopping because everyone is gearing up for prom,

720
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:35,759
Speaker 1: although Bella is not going to prom because she'll be

721
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:36,920
Speaker 1: out of town that weekend.

722
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 2: Well, van Alsa thinkause she's not like other girls.

723
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 1: She's not like the other girls.

724
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 3: She doesn't dance.

725
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 2: She would and if she went to prom, you know,

726
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 2: she would be wearing Chuck Taylor. She's yes, because she

727
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:51,759
Speaker 2: is not like, Oh god, I did have the I mean,

728
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 2: girls were wearing Chucks like no one's business at that time.

729
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:56,760
Speaker 3: I was wearing Chucks.

730
00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:58,799
Speaker 1: I still do, as in.

731
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 2: Really, I just I really appreciated when that fad pass

732
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 2: because they're just not I think my arches are too

733
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 2: high or something. They're just not comfortable to me.

734
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 1: I mean, they're not the most comfortable shoe.

735
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,840
Speaker 2: I bravely wear crocs everywhere I go, every single day.

736
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 1: I also want to point out that we see on

737
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:21,320
Speaker 1: screen that Bella could have bought this book from Amazon,

738
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:25,319
Speaker 1: but instead she opts to go to a whole other

739
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 1: city and buy it from a local independent bookstore.

740
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 2: Yeah that's Bela Swan praxis y right there, buys from

741
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 2: an independent bookseller, Yes, who we see in a single shot, right,

742
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 2: but she does support local businesses.

743
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 1: Good for Bella indeed.

744
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 2: But name a second thing about her.

745
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:47,479
Speaker 1: She read one book one time. What was the book?

746
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 1: We don't know?

747
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, she still ends up mostly googling, which I thought

748
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:52,520
Speaker 2: was funny that she went so far out of her

749
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 2: way to get the book. She still mostly googles the answers,

750
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 2: which is relatable. I've done that. I've been like, oh,

751
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 2: I've made a big deal of getting the books and

752
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 2: then been like, huh, well, I actually have run the

753
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 2: clock and I have three days to read this paper.

754
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 1: I made note of that. Though she reads exactly one

755
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:14,400
Speaker 1: sentence from the book and then proceeds to google everything else.

756
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 2: I felt seen like, that's what teenagers do.

757
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:22,280
Speaker 1: It's amazing. Okay, So she's hanging out in Port Angelis

758
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:27,440
Speaker 1: buying books locally. Meanwhile, there is a group of scary

759
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:32,320
Speaker 1: people and I wonder if they're vampires. They are James,

760
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:37,840
Speaker 1: Laurent and Victoria. They're on the loose and they attack

761
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:40,760
Speaker 1: a guy who we've met before. It's a friend of

762
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:46,879
Speaker 1: Bella's dad's. He's presumably murdered. Then a different set of

763
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 1: scary people start bothering Bella on her way back from

764
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 1: the bookstore, but Edward comes to her rescue because he

765
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 1: had followed her to Port Angelis.

766
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,000
Speaker 2: Yeah no, but it's a good thing he did kill

767
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 2: him right right, because because he.

768
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 1: Saved her from those scary people who were about to

769
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 1: assault her.

770
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 2: He rescues her from so many bizarre predicaments.

771
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, he heard what those low lifes were thinking.

772
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:24,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, yeah. So then Edward takes Bella to dinner,

773
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 1: where he admits that he had been stalking her and

774
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:32,320
Speaker 1: also tells her that he can read every person's thoughts

775
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 1: in the room except for hers. And if you're wondering

776
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 1: if she has any kind of reaction to this, well

777
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:41,000
Speaker 1: she barely does.

778
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 2: We're being hard on Bella. I feel bad.

779
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 3: Well, she thinks that something's wrong with her because you

780
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 3: can't read her mind, which is like so sad. It's like, no, honey,

781
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 3: there's nothing wrong with you other than the regulate that

782
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 3: you're boring. But there's nothing wrong with you.

783
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,480
Speaker 2: What's the thing is like her boringness is her power

784
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 2: question mark that I kept writing that down being like

785
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:09,319
Speaker 2: it's her absolute blankness that which which we'll get into too,

786
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 2: because I think that, like both of the lead actors

787
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 2: of this movie were like pretty thoroughly dragged through the

788
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 2: mud in the press for something that has way more

789
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:23,799
Speaker 2: to do with the source material than the performances, where

790
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:26,280
Speaker 2: for years, I mean, I kind of remember this where

791
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 2: people were like, Kristin Stewart can't act. You know, she's

792
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:32,279
Speaker 2: like a total blank slate. She's just like and I'm

793
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:35,880
Speaker 2: just like, read the book. She's not given very much. Yeah,

794
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:40,439
Speaker 2: and then a bunch of very homophobic, coded criticism of

795
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 2: Edward and Robert Pattinson because he's too sparkly and vampires

796
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 2: are famously straight. Like I don't even know where people

797
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:49,759
Speaker 2: are going with that because that's never been a thing.

798
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 2: But like in any case, I was sort of like

799
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:57,440
Speaker 2: revisiting that period of like Christian Stewart's a bad actor,

800
00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 2: which you know, fifteen years on, you're like, yeah, monstrably untrue.

801
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 2: She's not just a great actor, she's a queer icon.

802
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 3: Yeah.

803
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I find it interesting that both she and Robert

804
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 1: Pattinson have gone on to have like pretty prolific careers

805
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:15,319
Speaker 1: as actors. And then Taylor Latner, I would say, not

806
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 1: so much.

807
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 2: I am always buying the wrong stocks. I tell you what.

808
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:23,839
Speaker 2: I was all in for Taylor Latner and he did

809
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,320
Speaker 2: buy me a three dollars beer once.

810
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 1: Wow.

811
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:30,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I told that story on the first version.

812
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 2: Is like right after I moved to La went to

813
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:36,319
Speaker 2: this cheap o bar called the Cha Chaw Lounge, and

814
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 2: for some reason, Taylor and his wife to be also

815
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 2: named Taylor were there and he was like, next round

816
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:45,920
Speaker 2: on me. But all the beers cost three dollars, so

817
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:49,279
Speaker 2: he couldn't have spent more than like thirty dollars. But

818
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:52,719
Speaker 2: it was nice of him. I appreciated it. Yeah, So

819
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 2: I guess I got a three dollar return on setting

820
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 2: all my style and Taylor Latner three dollars plus tip.

821
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 1: I hope, wow, I mean could be worse.

822
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

823
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 1: Anyway, So Bella returns home and this is the scene

824
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 1: where she looks through her book for one second and

825
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 1: then looks everything else up online.

826
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:18,440
Speaker 2: I love a good googling montage. It's so pat but

827
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 2: I find it comforting.

828
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:25,919
Speaker 1: M hm. And what she's looking up is information about vampires,

829
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 1: and she realizes that Edward is probably a vampire based

830
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:36,200
Speaker 1: on his super speed and strength, his cold skin, his

831
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 1: ability to read people's minds, since that's famously a vampire quality.

832
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 2: I love how they just wave aside the I do

833
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:47,480
Speaker 2: appreciate Stephanie Meyer just waves off the tropes about vampires

834
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:50,360
Speaker 2: she's disinterested in and adds the stuff that she wants

835
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 2: You're like, yeah, sure, it's your book.

836
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:54,920
Speaker 1: I guess She's like, they can be out in the daylight.

837
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:56,800
Speaker 1: It's just that their skin is sparkly.

838
00:47:57,040 --> 00:48:00,200
Speaker 2: They just have this body glitter kind of thing.

839
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:01,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

840
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 1: And they're also Professor Xavier from x Men.

841
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 2: I've never seen an x man. Wow, I'm not like

842
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 2: you've never seen an x man. Oh, I was gonna say,

843
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:15,799
Speaker 2: I made a special note in a very late two

844
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 2: thousand's not. The Papyris font is indeed featured in oh

845
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:23,719
Speaker 2: Bella's googling sequence, which it wouldn't have been in two

846
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 2: thousand and eight if she hadn't come across you know,

847
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:32,920
Speaker 2: homespun HTML layout papyrus font website. So I appreciated that.

848
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 1: That was important visibility.

849
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 2: Yes for the papyrus part. Well, No, the papyrus font's

850
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:40,680
Speaker 2: one year away from being the avatar logo. So the

851
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 2: Papyrus font did oh perfectly fine for herself.

852
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 1: True. Okay, So one day at school, Bella and Edward

853
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 1: go into the nearby woods together and she's like, so,

854
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 1: you're a vampire, right, and he's like TI, yes, and

855
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 1: she's like, don't worry, I'm not afraid of you. Even

856
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:06,480
Speaker 1: though you desperately want to kill me and drink my blood.

857
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 1: You're a killing machine who has previously murdered people.

858
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:12,360
Speaker 2: This is the skin of a killer Bella.

859
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:16,440
Speaker 3: Oh yeah that light I so, y'all. I didn't tell you,

860
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 3: but I'm wearing a shirt. This is the skin of

861
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:21,160
Speaker 3: a killer. I will show you. It has like the

862
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 3: meme of Probert Pattinson. Incredible And yeah, it's a T

863
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 3: shirt and I made it into a half shirt because

864
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 3: I love me some half shirts. And this isn't the

865
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 3: only Twilight half shirt that I own. I also own

866
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 3: one that is New Moon based. It's the scene where

867
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 3: Jacob says, Bella, where the hell have you been? Loca?

868
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:46,560
Speaker 2: Yes, that is that half shirt.

869
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 3: So yeah, I do rock some some Twilight apparel still,

870
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:52,400
Speaker 3: even though it's not a Team Edward shirt.

871
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 2: Our producer Sophie is a big fan or like was

872
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 2: a huge twyhard back in the day, and they recently

873
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:04,239
Speaker 2: screened near her and the like the whole audience in

874
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 2: Unison did the bello where have you been? Look up together? Ah.

875
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:12,719
Speaker 2: There is something just so powerful about the memes that

876
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:15,479
Speaker 2: keep us together. This is the skin of a killer Bella.

877
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 2: That line read really holds up. It's so funny.

878
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 3: She's like, you're beautiful skins like diamonds.

879
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:27,839
Speaker 2: Diamonds, everything about me draws you in. Like, we'll talk

880
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:30,239
Speaker 2: about like how Robert Pattinson, I feel like, almost in

881
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:34,120
Speaker 2: a defensive way, came out against the Twilight movies because

882
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 2: he wanted to have a quote unquote serious career. In

883
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:39,120
Speaker 2: starring in movies that are marketed at teen girls is

884
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 2: quote unquote unserious. And so he would sort of be like,

885
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 2: these movies suck, but I'm in them. They but I

886
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 2: hate them. But he would do it in a funny

887
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 2: enough way that it's hard for me to be mad

888
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:54,640
Speaker 2: at him. But yeah, imagine having to perform that monologue.

889
00:50:55,040 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 2: It's really really wild that he basically pulls it up.

890
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:06,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, So now Bella and Edward are irrevocably in love

891
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:10,160
Speaker 1: with each other. He tells her some of his backstory,

892
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 1: which I forgot to write down.

893
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 3: He am in start of the flu Yeah, he had

894
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:19,160
Speaker 3: Spanish influenza and Carlyle saved him and yeah bit him

895
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:21,320
Speaker 3: and turned him into into a vampire.

896
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 2: Right, and something that really struck me on this And

897
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:26,560
Speaker 2: we can we can and should talk about this later.

898
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:30,399
Speaker 2: But that Carle. Like Carlyle's code of honor is that

899
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:34,920
Speaker 2: he'll only turn people into vampires when they are already

900
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:39,279
Speaker 2: about to die. But as ties into a lot of

901
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:43,400
Speaker 2: the like undertones of white supremacy and like Mormonism specifically

902
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 2: in this franchise, he mysteriously only ever seems to have

903
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:52,960
Speaker 2: an interest in saving white vampires or eventual vampires specifically,

904
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:55,840
Speaker 2: including even though I think that this is a discussion

905
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 2: for a future episode because it doesn't come up I

906
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:02,040
Speaker 2: don't think in this movie. But Jasper's fighting on the

907
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:05,280
Speaker 2: wrong side of the Civil War canonically.

908
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:06,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's a Confederate soldier.

909
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:10,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there is really I mean, we'll talk about

910
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:12,360
Speaker 2: it in I don't know if it's the second or

911
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 2: third movie where that like there's like a full flashback

912
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:19,280
Speaker 2: sequence I remember, and it is just not drawn attention

913
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:21,760
Speaker 2: to as something that's wrong. And I know Princess Weeks

914
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:26,279
Speaker 2: made a great video about how Confederate Vampire's Soldiers is

915
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 2: like this very scary trope that exists across vampire media.

916
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:38,920
Speaker 2: But yeah, doctor Daddy only ever saves white people on

917
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:40,720
Speaker 2: the verge of death.

918
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:47,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we learn that as Edward's backstory, we also

919
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 1: learn that the Cullens have kind of sworn this oath

920
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:56,719
Speaker 1: to never hunt or attack or kill humans. They live

921
00:52:56,760 --> 00:53:00,799
Speaker 1: off of the blood of animals, but there are other

922
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:05,520
Speaker 1: like vampire clans who do kill people, and that's what's

923
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 1: going on with James and Victoria.

924
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 3: And you can tell by their eye color too, of

925
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:14,040
Speaker 3: the vampires. Their eye color, you can tell if they

926
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:18,400
Speaker 3: are vegetarian vampires or if they hunt humans, because the

927
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:22,200
Speaker 3: vegetarian vampires have like golden eyes, and then the human

928
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:23,800
Speaker 3: hunting ones have red eyes.

929
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:25,840
Speaker 2: So like, yeah, yes.

930
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:32,399
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. So Edward tells Bella all of this. Then

931
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:35,480
Speaker 1: he invites her to his house to have dinner with

932
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:40,239
Speaker 1: his vampire family. Rosalie has a little outburst about it.

933
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 2: She breaks a salad.

934
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:47,279
Speaker 1: We're gonna be tension between her and Bella throughout the series.

935
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 3: Oh boy.

936
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:53,600
Speaker 1: Also, Jasper is thirsty as fuck for Bella's blood, but

937
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:58,320
Speaker 1: he's exercising restraint. Then we get the spider monkey scene.

938
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:02,279
Speaker 2: Great that was added for the movie. Also amazing that

939
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:06,360
Speaker 2: Robert Pattinson says it without laughing, so good.

940
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:07,799
Speaker 3: That's a skill.

941
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:11,920
Speaker 1: That's followed by this like montage kind of thing where

942
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:15,240
Speaker 1: they're just sort of like canoodling in the tree tops,

943
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:18,400
Speaker 1: as if that's like so romantic and I'm so afraid

944
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:21,759
Speaker 1: of heights that Like I'm like, who who would find

945
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:25,320
Speaker 1: that romantic? Like is this exciting for people?

946
00:54:25,600 --> 00:54:28,080
Speaker 3: I don't know, I would find that terrifying. Yeah.

947
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:32,560
Speaker 2: What struck me about that scene was that presumably what's

948
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:34,680
Speaker 2: happening in that scene is they're getting to know each

949
00:54:34,719 --> 00:54:37,879
Speaker 2: other better and they don't show us that where it's

950
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:40,000
Speaker 2: like it would actually be I mean, and I know

951
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:42,719
Speaker 2: to some extent and this is like ten years ago

952
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:45,040
Speaker 2: kind of styled this course around Twilight, but I think

953
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:47,760
Speaker 2: it would be nice to see them have more conversations

954
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:51,760
Speaker 2: to lock in what connects them as people.

955
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:54,120
Speaker 1: Why they like each other, right, Like.

956
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:56,520
Speaker 2: That's not too much to ask of a romance story.

957
00:54:56,880 --> 00:54:58,799
Speaker 2: And it was like, I think we were watching that

958
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:02,320
Speaker 2: scene happening, like we were far away, we couldn't hear it.

959
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:04,799
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, I would have loved to know what

960
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:08,520
Speaker 2: they would what Bella would talk about? Yeah, no, I

961
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:11,480
Speaker 2: read this is so many questions about Twilight if you

962
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:14,399
Speaker 2: google them lead to a Reddit post from five years ago,

963
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:17,320
Speaker 2: and this one is no exception. But later on, Stephanie

964
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:22,160
Speaker 2: Meyer would write sort of rewrite Twilight from Edward's perspective,

965
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 2: called Midnight Sun. I almost was like, should I read it?

966
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:27,839
Speaker 2: And then I saw it was a thirty six hour

967
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:31,520
Speaker 2: long audiobook, and then I thought, maybe I know, there's

968
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:33,120
Speaker 2: only so many days of your life.

969
00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:34,279
Speaker 1: Yeah.

970
00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:38,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, But I guess in that she does get into

971
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:41,280
Speaker 2: some of the conversations she has that Bella has with Edward,

972
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:43,680
Speaker 2: and she at one point gives her list of favorite

973
00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:47,680
Speaker 2: movies and books, which are baffling given Bella's personality. She

974
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:52,520
Speaker 2: says her favorite movie is Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Interesting,

975
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:55,239
Speaker 2: which is coming from a character I don't think we

976
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:59,080
Speaker 2: ever see laugh, is like so confusing. I was like,

977
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:00,200
Speaker 2: there's no way.

978
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:00,960
Speaker 1: Yeah.

979
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:03,839
Speaker 2: Anyways, I guess in the source material in the book,

980
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:06,320
Speaker 2: we find out that she reads Jane Austen books, which

981
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:09,120
Speaker 2: you know, they're great books, but there couldn't be a

982
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:15,920
Speaker 2: more bland thing assigned to a teenage girl character than

983
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:17,680
Speaker 2: likes Jane Austen books.

984
00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:24,880
Speaker 1: Oh okay, So then there's a scene where Bella introduces

985
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:31,520
Speaker 1: Edward to Charlie Swan, her dad, and Charlie's like, you

986
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:36,759
Speaker 1: better watch out, young man, I've got a gun. Then

987
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:40,840
Speaker 1: we get the baseball scene, which is an amazing scene,

988
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:45,959
Speaker 1: mostly because it is seven people total playing baseball, which

989
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:48,680
Speaker 1: is not enough people to play baseball.

990
00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:51,840
Speaker 2: And here's two referees but not enough player.

991
00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:54,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, they don't even let Bella play because she's too slow,

992
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:58,480
Speaker 1: so they make her be the umpire. But anyway, this

993
00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:01,920
Speaker 1: is when the bad vampires show up. They want to

994
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:04,080
Speaker 1: join in the fun. They want to play baseball, it's

995
00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:09,239
Speaker 1: America's pastime. But they notice that a human is among them.

996
00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:15,880
Speaker 1: They smell Bella's like blood for something or human flesh,

997
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:20,320
Speaker 1: and James in particular wants to just eat Bella to

998
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:24,360
Speaker 1: death and he is now going to hunt her down.

999
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:29,640
Speaker 1: So Edward and Bella have to leave to lure James

1000
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:32,920
Speaker 1: away so that they can basically eventually kill him. They

1001
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:36,800
Speaker 1: have to cut him up into pieces and burn the pieces.

1002
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:39,480
Speaker 2: Right, which is always like there's always these like suggestions

1003
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:42,160
Speaker 2: of violence like that in Twilight, but they never like

1004
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:45,160
Speaker 2: they ordinarily don't really have at least in the first movie.

1005
00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:47,880
Speaker 2: There's a lot of like, I'm gonna do this, but

1006
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:51,920
Speaker 2: then it happens off screen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, because Mormons.

1007
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:57,440
Speaker 1: So then there's a scene where Bella and Edward are fleeing,

1008
00:57:57,560 --> 00:57:59,919
Speaker 1: Bella goes home and like has to hurt her dad

1009
00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:06,560
Speaker 1: feelings to protect him. Then Bella and Edward split up

1010
00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:11,919
Speaker 1: to hopefully trick James into following. Edward and Bella goes

1011
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:15,240
Speaker 1: off with Alice and Jasper all the way to Phoenix,

1012
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:20,040
Speaker 1: where Bella receives a call from her mother, who James

1013
00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:24,240
Speaker 1: has kidnapped, and James tells her to meet him at

1014
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:29,000
Speaker 1: her old ballet studio. Now Bella shows up, learns that

1015
00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:33,080
Speaker 1: her mom was not actually kidnapped, it's just James there,

1016
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:38,360
Speaker 1: and he's like taunting her and throwing her around. She

1017
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:42,640
Speaker 1: gets badly injured and she's bleeding, and Edward shows up

1018
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:46,960
Speaker 1: and he and James fight a bit. James bites Bella

1019
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:52,240
Speaker 1: and his vampire venom is coursing through her veins.

1020
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:56,400
Speaker 2: And it hurts, but it hurts so good question mark. Yeah,

1021
00:58:56,600 --> 00:58:58,760
Speaker 2: the gnarliest moment in this movie to me is always

1022
00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:05,040
Speaker 2: when pony Hill vampire break Bella's leg like that. That

1023
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:09,240
Speaker 2: to me is like the actual scariest part of the movie.

1024
00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:12,560
Speaker 2: It's so yeah, But then how would she go to

1025
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 2: prom without her quirky leg cast, So in a way,

1026
00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:20,920
Speaker 2: it had to happen ponytail vampire had to do so

1027
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:22,880
Speaker 2: she could look quirky or from.

1028
00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:26,320
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, But before that happens, the rest of the

1029
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:30,040
Speaker 1: Cullens show up to deal with James and they kill

1030
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:34,520
Speaker 1: him off screen. Meanwhile, Edward goes to suck the venom

1031
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:38,440
Speaker 1: out of Bella, but oh no, will he be able

1032
00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:42,360
Speaker 1: to show restraint and stop in time, or will he

1033
00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:46,960
Speaker 1: suck all the blood out of her and kill her.

1034
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:52,480
Speaker 2: And give him vampire blue balls? Yeah, this movie is

1035
00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:53,920
Speaker 2: so edgy.

1036
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:58,200
Speaker 1: Well, he manages not to bust a nut or whatever

1037
00:59:58,200 --> 00:59:59,880
Speaker 1: the metaphor is, and Bella live.

1038
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:00,640
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1039
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:03,240
Speaker 1: She wakes up in the hospital. Her mom is there.

1040
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:07,720
Speaker 1: Bella doesn't remember what happens, so or she I don't

1041
01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:09,680
Speaker 1: know if she's like pretending not to or what. But

1042
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:14,600
Speaker 1: her mom relays the story that the Cullens probably told her,

1043
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:17,680
Speaker 1: which is that Bella fell down two flights of stairs,

1044
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:20,840
Speaker 1: broke her leg, and crashed through a window.

1045
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:25,400
Speaker 2: Okay, if I'm Bella's mom, I'm like, excuse me, Like

1046
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:29,440
Speaker 2: how But I think that because that same excuse is

1047
01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:31,640
Speaker 2: given in the book. If I'm remembering correctly, it's a

1048
01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:34,000
Speaker 2: very long book. But I was like, is that why

1049
01:00:34,040 --> 01:00:37,640
Speaker 2: they mentioned that she's so prone to falling because people

1050
01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:41,280
Speaker 2: have to believe this ridiculous story that she could just

1051
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:47,520
Speaker 2: fall down two flights, like a Looney Tune style fall. Sure, Renee,

1052
01:00:47,680 --> 01:00:51,640
Speaker 2: I'm not her fan. If Renee has one fan, it's

1053
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:56,160
Speaker 2: not me, it's not you. I like, your daughter's a junior.

1054
01:00:56,240 --> 01:00:59,120
Speaker 2: You can wait two years to go on the road

1055
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:03,080
Speaker 2: with your sorry whatever. But like, if I was a

1056
01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:05,200
Speaker 2: teen girl and my mom was like, actually I'm going

1057
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:07,720
Speaker 2: off to fuck this guy, I'd be like, all right, well,

1058
01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:10,080
Speaker 2: I hate you, you know.

1059
01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:17,120
Speaker 1: But now her mom is encouraging her to move to Jacksonville, Florida,

1060
01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:20,440
Speaker 1: to like hang out with her mom and her new husband,

1061
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:24,080
Speaker 1: and Bella's like, no, I want to stay in Forks.

1062
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:27,040
Speaker 1: But Edward is like, no, Bella, that's a good idea.

1063
01:01:27,160 --> 01:01:32,040
Speaker 1: Actually you are safer away from me, and you should move.

1064
01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:35,439
Speaker 1: And she's like, no, I'm never leaving you and you

1065
01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:39,080
Speaker 1: can never leave me, So don't say things like that,

1066
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:44,440
Speaker 1: and that's love. And we cut to prom and Bella

1067
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:48,680
Speaker 1: and Edward are there together. Jacob just kind of randomly

1068
01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:49,960
Speaker 1: pops out of the woods.

1069
01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:53,680
Speaker 2: He walks out of the woods. They did not do

1070
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:57,000
Speaker 2: a good job of making it like Why can't we

1071
01:01:57,000 --> 01:01:59,320
Speaker 2: see him get out of a car? Why is he

1072
01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:01,960
Speaker 2: have to I know that he's probably I know, I

1073
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:04,760
Speaker 2: know that that's what they're implying, but it looks so silly.

1074
01:02:04,840 --> 01:02:06,040
Speaker 1: It's goofy as hell.

1075
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:09,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so silly. I love it.

1076
01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:11,040
Speaker 3: And he like dresses up. He's like wearing a button

1077
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:13,520
Speaker 3: down shirt and tie, like rolls up sleeves and.

1078
01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:15,760
Speaker 1: Stuff, as if he's about to go to prom. But

1079
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:17,280
Speaker 1: he's not a question.

1080
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:19,960
Speaker 2: She's like, no, my dad gave me twenty dollars and

1081
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:21,320
Speaker 2: I'm like, okay.

1082
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:25,120
Speaker 1: He's like, my dad paid me to tell you to

1083
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:29,120
Speaker 1: break up with Edward and that will be watching you.

1084
01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:32,720
Speaker 1: And we're like cool, cool, cool, tight tight tight.

1085
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:36,400
Speaker 2: At very least in the book, Jacob like they danced

1086
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:40,120
Speaker 2: together and there's like a clearer friendship established, and not

1087
01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:42,880
Speaker 2: what happens in the movie, which is like Edward appearing

1088
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:45,760
Speaker 2: out of nowhere and being like, get away from me,

1089
01:02:46,120 --> 01:02:49,480
Speaker 2: and then they gave each other like Bruti boy eyes

1090
01:02:49,920 --> 01:02:52,600
Speaker 2: monster boy eyes, and then Jacob walks back into the

1091
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:55,520
Speaker 2: woods like that's where.

1092
01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:55,880
Speaker 1: He came from.

1093
01:02:56,280 --> 01:02:59,840
Speaker 3: So I hope he got that twenty dollars.

1094
01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:04,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I hope. At very least because it's like,

1095
01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:07,720
Speaker 2: that's a very humiliating task to dispatch your sixteen year

1096
01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:08,480
Speaker 2: old son to do.

1097
01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:14,600
Speaker 1: Anyway, So then Bella and Edward are slow dancing and

1098
01:03:15,080 --> 01:03:17,760
Speaker 1: she's like, you should have let me become a vampire

1099
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:21,680
Speaker 1: so that I can be like you. And he's like, no,

1100
01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:24,480
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna let you be a monster, and she's like,

1101
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:27,320
Speaker 1: but this is what I want, and so he moves

1102
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:31,480
Speaker 1: like he's about to bite her neck, but JK, he's

1103
01:03:31,560 --> 01:03:37,280
Speaker 1: just teasing slash edging her. And the movie ends with

1104
01:03:37,400 --> 01:03:43,080
Speaker 1: a shot of Victoria, the bad vampire who's James's his girlfriend,

1105
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:47,680
Speaker 1: leering at Bella and Edward from a distance because she

1106
01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:52,680
Speaker 1: wants revenge, and that's partly going to be what some

1107
01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:53,840
Speaker 1: of the other movies are about.

1108
01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:57,480
Speaker 2: I think maybe I was really bummed I forgot that

1109
01:03:57,520 --> 01:04:01,520
Speaker 2: the Vultore don't show up in this movie because they're

1110
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:05,160
Speaker 2: so funny. They're the funniest part of all of the

1111
01:04:05,240 --> 01:04:08,240
Speaker 2: vivies where they're because it's just like this didn't fully

1112
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:12,200
Speaker 2: connect for me until like going through the Twilight rehash

1113
01:04:12,240 --> 01:04:14,280
Speaker 2: discourse that's happened in the last five years. But it's

1114
01:04:14,360 --> 01:04:18,120
Speaker 2: just how Stephanie Meyer views Catholic people, which is like

1115
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:23,880
Speaker 2: gay and evil No, Italian gay and evil.

1116
01:04:24,160 --> 01:04:25,560
Speaker 3: Yes, it's just so.

1117
01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:29,040
Speaker 2: Weird, I forget. Yeah, yeah, but you're gonna have to

1118
01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:32,880
Speaker 2: wait for Dakota Fanning Italian villain.

1119
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:38,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, indeed. So yeah, that's the movie. Let's take

1120
01:04:38,040 --> 01:04:40,560
Speaker 1: a quick break and we'll come back to discuss.

1121
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:54,720
Speaker 2: And we're back, Daneli, I want to sort of pass

1122
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:56,880
Speaker 2: the buck to you here. Where would you like to

1123
01:04:56,920 --> 01:05:00,680
Speaker 2: start with discourse of Twilight.

1124
01:05:01,240 --> 01:05:03,800
Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't know. Where's what it feels

1125
01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:05,920
Speaker 3: like a good place to start, as far as like

1126
01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:08,320
Speaker 3: things that you all wanted to cover as well.

1127
01:05:08,680 --> 01:05:10,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think we didn't mention this, Caitlin,

1128
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:15,520
Speaker 2: but we also during actually during Lockdown, I want to

1129
01:05:15,520 --> 01:05:19,120
Speaker 2: say it was summer twenty twenty, we did a fundraiser

1130
01:05:19,160 --> 01:05:22,320
Speaker 2: where we did a reading of the Twilight script with

1131
01:05:22,440 --> 01:05:25,760
Speaker 2: past guests from the show. Jess Berwin was a part

1132
01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:31,720
Speaker 2: of that conversation, and they and many Native writers have

1133
01:05:32,040 --> 01:05:36,880
Speaker 2: been intensely and rightfully critical of the way that Twilight

1134
01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:40,120
Speaker 2: presents indigenous culture, which I think we reference in our

1135
01:05:40,160 --> 01:05:43,560
Speaker 2: first episode, but certainly not in depth because we were

1136
01:05:43,560 --> 01:05:46,480
Speaker 2: also under educated on the issue at the time, So

1137
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:49,560
Speaker 2: I think that's a good starting point. And then also

1138
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:52,640
Speaker 2: just again for our listener's reference, we're not going to

1139
01:05:52,640 --> 01:05:56,720
Speaker 2: get into every facet of that in this particular episode,

1140
01:05:56,720 --> 01:06:00,640
Speaker 2: because I believe that it's New Moon that really kind

1141
01:06:00,640 --> 01:06:05,960
Speaker 2: of doubles and triples down on these really dangerous tropes

1142
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:10,240
Speaker 2: around indigenous people, and Jacob is not in this movie

1143
01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:13,400
Speaker 2: very much. But I think that it is at least

1144
01:06:13,840 --> 01:06:20,200
Speaker 2: to me like the unequivocally valid criticism of this franchise.

1145
01:06:20,920 --> 01:06:25,280
Speaker 1: Yes, friend of the show Ali Noddy has spoken about

1146
01:06:25,320 --> 01:06:29,640
Speaker 1: this in depth, and I've learned an awful lot from

1147
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:33,000
Speaker 1: posts that she's made and videos that she's made.

1148
01:06:33,080 --> 01:06:36,320
Speaker 2: She made a great video essay on the topic, definitely.

1149
01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:41,919
Speaker 1: So Yeah, the glaring thing here because this movie does

1150
01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:46,720
Speaker 1: go a little bit into some of the lore that's

1151
01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:50,720
Speaker 1: basically at foreshadows a lot of what happens in New Moon.

1152
01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:55,360
Speaker 1: But there's a scene where Jacob Black again played by

1153
01:06:55,640 --> 01:07:00,120
Speaker 1: a non indigenous actor. He is a member of the

1154
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:04,760
Speaker 1: Quillute Nation. The character is again not the actor, and.

1155
01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:08,640
Speaker 2: The Quiliate nation really does live in Lapushe. I think

1156
01:07:08,680 --> 01:07:11,200
Speaker 2: at the time that the movie came out, there were

1157
01:07:11,480 --> 01:07:13,800
Speaker 2: only about seven hundred members of the nation, so it's

1158
01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:16,000
Speaker 2: also a quite small nation.

1159
01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:22,400
Speaker 1: Yes, So what we learned from this movie is and

1160
01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:26,040
Speaker 1: this is something that Jacob mentions, but that his people

1161
01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:32,240
Speaker 1: are descended from wolves, which is part of Quiliute mythology,

1162
01:07:32,360 --> 01:07:35,240
Speaker 1: like that's part of the creation story. But basically what

1163
01:07:35,320 --> 01:07:39,480
Speaker 1: happened is that Stephanie Meyer probably did one second of research,

1164
01:07:40,200 --> 01:07:46,120
Speaker 1: learned that and then basically conflated that with Quillute people

1165
01:07:46,360 --> 01:07:48,120
Speaker 1: are where wolves.

1166
01:07:48,200 --> 01:07:50,520
Speaker 2: Right to like serve the pre which again it's just

1167
01:07:51,240 --> 01:07:53,800
Speaker 2: I mean, there's so many issues with how Stephanie Meyer

1168
01:07:53,880 --> 01:07:59,120
Speaker 2: dealt with writing a Qualiute character in general, but the

1169
01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:04,240
Speaker 2: fact that she's also like equivocating a very real group

1170
01:08:04,600 --> 01:08:08,200
Speaker 2: of people with a completely made up group of people,

1171
01:08:08,680 --> 01:08:13,000
Speaker 2: you know, inventing a treaty that is presented very matter

1172
01:08:13,040 --> 01:08:16,439
Speaker 2: of factly, as if most of the treaties that have

1173
01:08:16,640 --> 01:08:19,800
Speaker 2: been quote unquote made with indigenous tribes have not been

1174
01:08:19,840 --> 01:08:23,840
Speaker 2: completely disrespected or later renegged on. The movie has no

1175
01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:26,559
Speaker 2: interest in this. I also was reading that she didn't.

1176
01:08:26,760 --> 01:08:28,719
Speaker 2: I mean, it reminds me of how we talked about

1177
01:08:28,840 --> 01:08:32,040
Speaker 2: Robert Eggers in the vivich oh where there was that

1178
01:08:32,160 --> 01:08:34,719
Speaker 2: interview he did where they're like, how did you research

1179
01:08:34,800 --> 01:08:36,719
Speaker 2: the movie? And he's like, I went to the library

1180
01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:40,599
Speaker 2: one day like that, and that was all he admitted

1181
01:08:40,600 --> 01:08:43,400
Speaker 2: to doing. She does seem to be borrowing from the

1182
01:08:44,240 --> 01:08:47,519
Speaker 2: Robert Egger's School of Higher Education and that she clearly

1183
01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:52,880
Speaker 2: googled a couple of things, never consulted with the quil Nation, right,

1184
01:08:53,000 --> 01:08:57,120
Speaker 2: it doesn't seem like visited, like did no due diligence

1185
01:08:58,120 --> 01:09:01,000
Speaker 2: in writing that character. And that also she still somehow

1186
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:05,439
Speaker 2: got it wrong where I'm pretty sure that at least

1187
01:09:05,479 --> 01:09:07,439
Speaker 2: I was seeing this because there's been a lot of

1188
01:09:07,800 --> 01:09:11,160
Speaker 2: art exhibits and pieces written about it that the tribe

1189
01:09:11,200 --> 01:09:14,920
Speaker 2: is said to have been turned to people from wolves

1190
01:09:15,040 --> 01:09:19,080
Speaker 2: and not like it's not a back and forth thing, correct,

1191
01:09:19,439 --> 01:09:23,320
Speaker 2: So she's just projecting, you know whatever, making everything work

1192
01:09:23,439 --> 01:09:25,479
Speaker 2: in favor of the story. The thing that stood out

1193
01:09:25,520 --> 01:09:29,759
Speaker 2: to me and the Taylor Lotner thing is absolutely glaring.

1194
01:09:30,000 --> 01:09:32,599
Speaker 2: And there's also this very I think it was more

1195
01:09:32,760 --> 01:09:34,639
Speaker 2: in the New Moon press cycle, so we can talk

1196
01:09:34,640 --> 01:09:37,120
Speaker 2: about it more in that episode. But there was a

1197
01:09:37,280 --> 01:09:41,400
Speaker 2: like round of discourse where Taylor Latner did like a

1198
01:09:41,520 --> 01:09:44,439
Speaker 2: round of press where he was like, actually, I do

1199
01:09:45,240 --> 01:09:48,280
Speaker 2: have some indigenous heritage. I just didn't know before. And

1200
01:09:48,320 --> 01:09:51,880
Speaker 2: on my mom's side, I have some indigenous heritage, which

1201
01:09:51,920 --> 01:09:57,080
Speaker 2: is like, don't do that. Like, and he's a teenager

1202
01:09:57,120 --> 01:10:00,240
Speaker 2: at the time, Like, I'm more inclined to blame the

1203
01:10:00,280 --> 01:10:02,920
Speaker 2: producers of Twilight that probably put pressure on him to

1204
01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:06,439
Speaker 2: do that, to put out a fire. It's all very ugly.

1205
01:10:06,479 --> 01:10:08,639
Speaker 2: The thing that stuck out to me the most, though,

1206
01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:10,479
Speaker 2: that I wasn't fully aware of, or I guess I

1207
01:10:10,520 --> 01:10:15,040
Speaker 2: hadn't been reminded of in some time, was in terms

1208
01:10:15,439 --> 01:10:20,320
Speaker 2: of how the Quali tribe was able to benefit from

1209
01:10:20,360 --> 01:10:24,960
Speaker 2: the success of Twilight. There was a lot written about this.

1210
01:10:25,080 --> 01:10:27,599
Speaker 2: The most in depth piece I was able to find

1211
01:10:28,520 --> 01:10:33,519
Speaker 2: was in Highcountrynews dot com, which is a local paper.

1212
01:10:33,720 --> 01:10:35,680
Speaker 2: It is from twenty twelve, so towards the end of

1213
01:10:35,680 --> 01:10:40,599
Speaker 2: the Twilight movies, in which the Quali tribe was holding

1214
01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:45,479
Speaker 2: a public powow and was inviting people to become better

1215
01:10:45,520 --> 01:10:48,439
Speaker 2: acquainted with their culture. And I think we might have

1216
01:10:48,479 --> 01:10:51,680
Speaker 2: talked about this years ago. But what the piece illustrates

1217
01:10:51,800 --> 01:10:57,200
Speaker 2: essentially is the fact that a because the Twilight production

1218
01:10:57,400 --> 01:11:01,760
Speaker 2: was not required to give the Qualia tribe any sort

1219
01:11:01,800 --> 01:11:05,880
Speaker 2: of public acknowledgment or financial compensation, they opted not to,

1220
01:11:06,680 --> 01:11:10,200
Speaker 2: and that this tribe, which again consists of around seven

1221
01:11:10,280 --> 01:11:13,920
Speaker 2: hundred people, had to in response to the success from

1222
01:11:13,960 --> 01:11:17,880
Speaker 2: Twilight and have all of a sudden all of this tourism,

1223
01:11:18,400 --> 01:11:20,519
Speaker 2: which we should just link the piece because it is

1224
01:11:20,640 --> 01:11:23,799
Speaker 2: very interesting. On one hand, they're like, you know, having

1225
01:11:24,280 --> 01:11:28,120
Speaker 2: tourism money come in is a net positive, But on

1226
01:11:28,160 --> 01:11:31,320
Speaker 2: the other hand, they're coming in because of misinformation, and

1227
01:11:31,400 --> 01:11:35,080
Speaker 2: so they had to develop, you know, for a small

1228
01:11:35,120 --> 01:11:37,800
Speaker 2: group of people who have been historically persecuted, they had

1229
01:11:37,840 --> 01:11:41,840
Speaker 2: to develop a pr job within the nation to sort

1230
01:11:41,840 --> 01:11:47,600
Speaker 2: of not overtly condemned Twilight, but also work to correct

1231
01:11:47,720 --> 01:11:50,840
Speaker 2: the misinformation that Twilight had created. And it's created this

1232
01:11:51,200 --> 01:11:56,559
Speaker 2: entire like net of issues. And something that isn't mentioned

1233
01:11:56,600 --> 01:11:59,800
Speaker 2: in this twenty twelve piece but feels worth mentioning is

1234
01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:02,840
Speaker 2: the fact of, like, why do indigenous groups have to

1235
01:12:03,000 --> 01:12:07,800
Speaker 2: rely on tourism money from you know, majority non indigenous

1236
01:12:07,800 --> 01:12:12,760
Speaker 2: people because of the same capitalist system that is disenfranchising

1237
01:12:12,760 --> 01:12:14,680
Speaker 2: them in the first place, And it's cost all of

1238
01:12:14,720 --> 01:12:17,599
Speaker 2: this genocide and the fact that that is even something

1239
01:12:17,680 --> 01:12:21,679
Speaker 2: that tribes need to interface with is like the result

1240
01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:27,040
Speaker 2: of something far uglier. So just I have one quick passage.

1241
01:12:27,120 --> 01:12:28,920
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I know him going along. It's just no

1242
01:12:29,080 --> 01:12:31,240
Speaker 2: I love it. This piece is I want to shout

1243
01:12:31,240 --> 01:12:34,280
Speaker 2: out the writer that not an indigenous writer, but who

1244
01:12:34,320 --> 01:12:37,400
Speaker 2: attended this powo and spent a lot of time and

1245
01:12:37,600 --> 01:12:40,519
Speaker 2: spoke with the pr advocates. All this stuff from writer

1246
01:12:40,640 --> 01:12:46,000
Speaker 2: Brint Nelson in July twenty twelve, rites the Quilliad has

1247
01:12:46,080 --> 01:12:48,960
Speaker 2: struggled for centuries to retain their land and culture amid

1248
01:12:49,000 --> 01:12:52,120
Speaker 2: outside threats. In eighteen eighty nine, the same year a

1249
01:12:52,160 --> 01:12:55,799
Speaker 2: treaty squeezed the tribe onto a fraction of its ancestral lands.

1250
01:12:56,000 --> 01:12:59,200
Speaker 2: A settler who had fraudulently claimed the remaining plots burned

1251
01:12:59,200 --> 01:13:02,479
Speaker 2: all twenty six houses to the ground. By nineteen twenty,

1252
01:13:02,640 --> 01:13:05,400
Speaker 2: the last of the peninsula's wolves had been poisoned, shot

1253
01:13:05,479 --> 01:13:09,559
Speaker 2: or trapped, severing another vital link to the past. They

1254
01:13:09,720 --> 01:13:14,000
Speaker 2: also mentioned how there are many places in the surrounding areas,

1255
01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:17,479
Speaker 2: but not on their reservation or land, that profit off

1256
01:13:17,520 --> 01:13:20,720
Speaker 2: of the twilight. You know what it was the word

1257
01:13:20,880 --> 01:13:25,280
Speaker 2: being adjacent adjacent fairness. In twenty ten, a volunteer advisor

1258
01:13:25,360 --> 01:13:28,439
Speaker 2: Angela Riley, director of the American Indian Studies Center at

1259
01:13:28,520 --> 01:13:31,719
Speaker 2: UCLA wrote an editorial in The New York Times, Sucking

1260
01:13:31,720 --> 01:13:35,840
Speaker 2: the Quill Dry, which blasted the ongoing exploitation. In perhaps

1261
01:13:35,880 --> 01:13:39,040
Speaker 2: the worst instance, an MSN dot com film crew working

1262
01:13:39,080 --> 01:13:43,760
Speaker 2: on a virtual Twilight tour filmed the reservation cemetery without permission,

1263
01:13:44,160 --> 01:13:47,680
Speaker 2: pairing grainy images of the gravesites of respected elders with

1264
01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:51,559
Speaker 2: a creepy soundtrack. Deeply offended, the tribe secured a quick

1265
01:13:51,600 --> 01:13:55,080
Speaker 2: published ecology and removal of the footage, but the incident

1266
01:13:55,120 --> 01:13:58,519
Speaker 2: prompted a new level of vigilance. Now the Quilliut Nation

1267
01:13:58,640 --> 01:14:03,000
Speaker 2: has an etiquette guide and photography policy, both prominently displayed

1268
01:14:03,120 --> 01:14:06,120
Speaker 2: on its website. So it's just this examination of how

1269
01:14:06,479 --> 01:14:11,240
Speaker 2: this small tribe has had to respond, deal with and

1270
01:14:11,640 --> 01:14:16,200
Speaker 2: try to essentially make the best of this situation that's

1271
01:14:16,240 --> 01:14:19,519
Speaker 2: been thrust onto them by this franchise. And I don't know, Yeah,

1272
01:14:19,520 --> 01:14:21,760
Speaker 2: I'm curious what you both feel about that. I mean,

1273
01:14:21,760 --> 01:14:25,280
Speaker 2: it's obviously very gross and it takes Stephanie Meyer kind of,

1274
01:14:25,560 --> 01:14:28,519
Speaker 2: I think, a very nasty amount of time to even

1275
01:14:28,560 --> 01:14:29,240
Speaker 2: acknowledge this.

1276
01:14:31,040 --> 01:14:36,560
Speaker 1: I had come across a piece called Truth Versus Twilight,

1277
01:14:37,360 --> 01:14:41,559
Speaker 1: which was a collaboration between the Burke Museum of Natural

1278
01:14:41,640 --> 01:14:46,400
Speaker 1: History and Culture and the Quilute tribe. And it goes

1279
01:14:46,479 --> 01:14:49,479
Speaker 1: through a bunch of different talking points, many of which

1280
01:14:49,600 --> 01:14:54,800
Speaker 1: revolve around the representation of the Quillut nation, and one

1281
01:14:54,840 --> 01:14:58,320
Speaker 1: of the big points made was that the tribe received

1282
01:14:58,840 --> 01:15:04,000
Speaker 1: no compensation to bite. The movie, making over four hundred

1283
01:15:04,040 --> 01:15:07,759
Speaker 1: million dollars at the box office, made back its budget,

1284
01:15:07,920 --> 01:15:11,559
Speaker 1: like by over tenfold, Like made so much money. Obviously

1285
01:15:11,840 --> 01:15:16,920
Speaker 1: we know what a cultural phenomenon this saga is, and

1286
01:15:17,400 --> 01:15:25,000
Speaker 1: the Quilli nation saw no direct compensation from that. Again,

1287
01:15:25,439 --> 01:15:29,479
Speaker 1: there was no consultation that Stephanie Meyer did, and I

1288
01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:32,960
Speaker 1: meant to look into this further, but I would doubt

1289
01:15:33,160 --> 01:15:37,720
Speaker 1: that the film production did much in the way of consultation.

1290
01:15:37,640 --> 01:15:42,000
Speaker 2: So from what I can tell, no, So there's actually

1291
01:15:42,040 --> 01:15:47,120
Speaker 2: it's mentioned in this piece, okay, from the same High

1292
01:15:47,160 --> 01:15:51,040
Speaker 2: Country news piece. When the Twilight craze first erupted, the

1293
01:15:51,120 --> 01:15:55,160
Speaker 2: Quillia lacked a public relations contact and events coordinator and

1294
01:15:55,400 --> 01:15:57,880
Speaker 2: Penn Trials, a community leader who helps run the weekly

1295
01:15:57,920 --> 01:16:01,120
Speaker 2: drum and healing circle, says producer of the first movie

1296
01:16:01,280 --> 01:16:04,639
Speaker 2: randomly called villagers in hopes of securing permission to film

1297
01:16:04,680 --> 01:16:07,559
Speaker 2: a scene on First Beach it was ultimately shot on

1298
01:16:07,600 --> 01:16:12,440
Speaker 2: the Oregon coast instead. The producers eventually visited so eventually,

1299
01:16:12,800 --> 01:16:15,920
Speaker 2: well into production, the producers eventually visited La Push to

1300
01:16:15,960 --> 01:16:19,080
Speaker 2: get a better sense of the community. Tribal Secretary Naomi

1301
01:16:19,120 --> 01:16:22,639
Speaker 2: Jacobson says their idea of Qulio kids were upended when

1302
01:16:22,640 --> 01:16:25,880
Speaker 2: they visited her cousin's home. They didn't expect them to

1303
01:16:25,920 --> 01:16:30,320
Speaker 2: be modernized teenagers with iPods and we she says, So

1304
01:16:30,960 --> 01:16:35,080
Speaker 2: this was just like, as with so many depictions of

1305
01:16:35,080 --> 01:16:39,080
Speaker 2: Indigenous culture well into now and thankfully there has been

1306
01:16:39,720 --> 01:16:44,400
Speaker 2: more representation of but nowhere near what satisfactory, as we've

1307
01:16:44,400 --> 01:16:47,080
Speaker 2: talked about in many episodes. But just like this is

1308
01:16:47,120 --> 01:16:52,479
Speaker 2: an overwhelmingly white crew coming in based on I'm assuming

1309
01:16:52,560 --> 01:16:55,160
Speaker 2: the false version of history they learned and never re

1310
01:16:55,240 --> 01:16:59,479
Speaker 2: examined in American schools. Yeah, there was no compensation given

1311
01:16:59,479 --> 01:17:01,439
Speaker 2: that I was a well to find and it seems

1312
01:17:01,479 --> 01:17:05,040
Speaker 2: like the first literal person to say hey, could we

1313
01:17:05,080 --> 01:17:08,800
Speaker 2: come to the Push and speak with you was well

1314
01:17:08,800 --> 01:17:11,320
Speaker 2: into the production of the movie, which would have been

1315
01:17:11,640 --> 01:17:13,920
Speaker 2: at least three years after the book came out.

1316
01:17:15,200 --> 01:17:18,120
Speaker 3: And it's like just the age old story of like

1317
01:17:18,680 --> 01:17:25,280
Speaker 3: appropriation and benefiting from you know, other people's culture. It

1318
01:17:25,400 --> 01:17:29,320
Speaker 3: saddens me, it outrages me that, you know, the Quiliit

1319
01:17:29,360 --> 01:17:32,640
Speaker 3: people were not consulted, they were not compensated, and like

1320
01:17:32,720 --> 01:17:35,080
Speaker 3: that happens so often, especially as a person of color,

1321
01:17:35,120 --> 01:17:38,840
Speaker 3: like we often are not compensated for our work, for

1322
01:17:38,920 --> 01:17:43,040
Speaker 3: our labor. And this could have been an opportunity for

1323
01:17:43,439 --> 01:17:47,519
Speaker 3: the production crew to be educated on the Quiliad tribe

1324
01:17:47,880 --> 01:17:51,080
Speaker 3: and they could have been compensated for their time and

1325
01:17:51,120 --> 01:17:55,160
Speaker 3: for their information. But it is sad that the research

1326
01:17:55,439 --> 01:17:59,000
Speaker 3: was well into production and Stephanie Meyer didn't do a

1327
01:17:59,040 --> 01:18:02,640
Speaker 3: lot of that work on her which is again, like

1328
01:18:02,720 --> 01:18:06,920
Speaker 3: I'm so outraged by that, and like I I think

1329
01:18:07,000 --> 01:18:09,680
Speaker 3: that when I was younger, I didn't I didn't know

1330
01:18:09,720 --> 01:18:14,240
Speaker 3: this information, yeah, you know, and I just thought about like, oh,

1331
01:18:14,280 --> 01:18:17,880
Speaker 3: the romance, the story of you know, Edward and and

1332
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:21,160
Speaker 3: Bella falling in love, and there's so much I mean,

1333
01:18:21,160 --> 01:18:24,160
Speaker 3: this is a problematic fave, sadly, but there's there's so

1334
01:18:24,360 --> 01:18:29,639
Speaker 3: much to really dive into. And again, like so many,

1335
01:18:29,920 --> 01:18:32,759
Speaker 3: so many issues that could be discussed about this movie.

1336
01:18:33,200 --> 01:18:36,759
Speaker 3: And you know, the books that made this movie happen,

1337
01:18:36,920 --> 01:18:38,760
Speaker 3: you know, absolutely.

1338
01:18:38,280 --> 01:18:40,320
Speaker 2: I mean, and and well this is like an issue

1339
01:18:40,360 --> 01:18:43,639
Speaker 2: well return to as we cover more Twilight movies, because

1340
01:18:43,640 --> 01:18:48,080
Speaker 2: it's like Twilight is a problematic fave for millions of people,

1341
01:18:49,160 --> 01:18:51,960
Speaker 2: and again, like we're our show is an every fun

1342
01:18:52,040 --> 01:18:54,880
Speaker 2: about like if with very few exceptions, there's a few

1343
01:18:54,920 --> 01:18:56,519
Speaker 2: movies where it's like, if you like this movie, you

1344
01:18:56,600 --> 01:18:59,800
Speaker 2: might be a horrible person, but The Twilight is not

1345
01:18:59,840 --> 01:19:01,880
Speaker 2: one of them. I don't think. I think that there

1346
01:19:02,040 --> 01:19:05,760
Speaker 2: is so much important, valid criticism that was not being

1347
01:19:05,760 --> 01:19:08,160
Speaker 2: had at the time that is important to have now.

1348
01:19:08,160 --> 01:19:10,360
Speaker 2: And I'm I mean that's why it's like Ali Natty's

1349
01:19:10,360 --> 01:19:15,760
Speaker 2: work is so wonderful and yeah, well we'll revisit that

1350
01:19:15,880 --> 01:19:18,479
Speaker 2: in our New Moon episode. But just to establish like

1351
01:19:18,920 --> 01:19:22,600
Speaker 2: I know for sure, I was not educated to the

1352
01:19:22,600 --> 01:19:25,240
Speaker 2: point where I could have told you when this movie

1353
01:19:25,320 --> 01:19:28,800
Speaker 2: came out if the Clearly tribe was a tribe that

1354
01:19:29,320 --> 01:19:33,360
Speaker 2: was based on real people or not, because we're so

1355
01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:37,960
Speaker 2: under educated about indigenous issues. And also, Indigenous people aren't

1356
01:19:38,000 --> 01:19:41,080
Speaker 2: a monolith as this movie. I think there's a lot

1357
01:19:41,120 --> 01:19:43,599
Speaker 2: of stuff in New Moon that really, you know, turns

1358
01:19:43,720 --> 01:19:47,360
Speaker 2: Indigenous Americans into a monolith. So we'll go back to that.

1359
01:19:47,560 --> 01:19:51,080
Speaker 2: But did anyone else have anything on that issue before

1360
01:19:51,080 --> 01:19:54,760
Speaker 2: we forge ahead to the five hundred other things to

1361
01:19:54,800 --> 01:19:56,680
Speaker 2: talk about.

1362
01:19:57,280 --> 01:20:00,559
Speaker 1: Let's forge ahead, I suppose so well. I think a

1363
01:20:00,600 --> 01:20:03,880
Speaker 1: big talking point on our first episode was the discussion

1364
01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:10,280
Speaker 1: around the predatory romance between Edward and Bella being framed

1365
01:20:10,439 --> 01:20:17,759
Speaker 1: as this grand, romantic, beautiful love story and the effect

1366
01:20:17,920 --> 01:20:22,680
Speaker 1: that that had on its audience. Sure, now watching this

1367
01:20:22,800 --> 01:20:27,240
Speaker 1: movie eight years later and like having done this podcast

1368
01:20:27,360 --> 01:20:30,920
Speaker 1: for eight years and like talking about so many movies

1369
01:20:31,479 --> 01:20:35,559
Speaker 1: that do just that as far as framing an abusive

1370
01:20:35,600 --> 01:20:41,080
Speaker 1: relationship or a predatory romance as being romantic, watching this

1371
01:20:41,160 --> 01:20:43,680
Speaker 1: again for the first time in a long time, it

1372
01:20:43,760 --> 01:20:47,679
Speaker 1: felt so heavy handed to me that it almost felt

1373
01:20:47,720 --> 01:20:52,200
Speaker 1: like I was watching satire or like some kind of

1374
01:20:52,240 --> 01:20:55,240
Speaker 1: farcical thing, because I was like, oh my gosh, because

1375
01:20:55,240 --> 01:20:59,040
Speaker 1: I think that we have come long enough of away culturally,

1376
01:21:00,240 --> 01:21:03,559
Speaker 1: like the initial release of these books in these movies

1377
01:21:04,640 --> 01:21:08,000
Speaker 1: that I think, or at least I hope most people

1378
01:21:08,840 --> 01:21:13,800
Speaker 1: watch this relationship now and realize just how predatory it

1379
01:21:13,840 --> 01:21:18,640
Speaker 1: is and they're like ooh oh, no, yeah, Because I

1380
01:21:18,640 --> 01:21:20,920
Speaker 1: feel like on our first watch, I was kind of

1381
01:21:21,000 --> 01:21:25,120
Speaker 1: still in the mindset of like, well, I don't know,

1382
01:21:25,800 --> 01:21:29,920
Speaker 1: I've always been conditioned that if a man stalks me

1383
01:21:30,160 --> 01:21:32,040
Speaker 1: and love bombs me, and.

1384
01:21:32,160 --> 01:21:33,640
Speaker 2: To me, fair, I don't think that we were like,

1385
01:21:33,680 --> 01:21:36,800
Speaker 2: it's actually cool that he's we weren't that brand dead

1386
01:21:37,000 --> 01:21:38,040
Speaker 2: in twenty seventeen.

1387
01:21:38,360 --> 01:21:41,920
Speaker 1: There no, but we were coming off of being conditioned

1388
01:21:42,040 --> 01:21:45,519
Speaker 1: by other media that, at least for me, I was

1389
01:21:45,520 --> 01:21:48,599
Speaker 1: like kind of still in the process of like undoing, sure,

1390
01:21:48,880 --> 01:21:52,760
Speaker 1: unlearning a lot of that, and now I'm like, oh

1391
01:21:52,840 --> 01:21:57,680
Speaker 1: my gosh, like WOWI wow, this seems this is so

1392
01:21:57,800 --> 01:22:02,479
Speaker 1: outlandish that it feels satirical to me almost. But yeah,

1393
01:22:02,479 --> 01:22:06,880
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, there's all the things of Edward gaslighting her,

1394
01:22:06,960 --> 01:22:13,120
Speaker 1: incessantly stalking her, showing up in her bedroom unannounced, watching

1395
01:22:13,160 --> 01:22:18,160
Speaker 1: her sleep, love bombing her, blaming her for his reaction,

1396
01:22:18,800 --> 01:22:23,160
Speaker 1: like kind of like any angry outburst he has, he's like, well,

1397
01:22:23,200 --> 01:22:27,400
Speaker 1: you made me so angry. The implication that he's intrigued

1398
01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:30,680
Speaker 1: by her because she's the only person whose thoughts he

1399
01:22:30,720 --> 01:22:35,080
Speaker 1: can't hear, but he's still desperate to know what she's thinking.

1400
01:22:35,280 --> 01:22:40,640
Speaker 1: And just like all these weird, bizarro, predatory, scary, abusive

1401
01:22:40,920 --> 01:22:44,240
Speaker 1: relationship dynamics. Also that he's like one hundred years old

1402
01:22:44,840 --> 01:22:47,840
Speaker 1: and she's seventeen. You know, the list goes on.

1403
01:22:48,240 --> 01:22:52,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean that's honestly, the main initial criticism

1404
01:22:52,560 --> 01:22:54,800
Speaker 2: that we had of this movie that doesn't hold up

1405
01:22:54,800 --> 01:22:58,479
Speaker 2: for me is the age gap, because well, I do

1406
01:22:58,560 --> 01:23:02,920
Speaker 2: agree that a hundred year old shouldn't date seventeen year olds.

1407
01:23:03,840 --> 01:23:06,280
Speaker 2: That's not something that happens, and I don't think it's

1408
01:23:06,320 --> 01:23:09,920
Speaker 2: like something that we're risk to do. I guess there

1409
01:23:09,960 --> 01:23:11,920
Speaker 2: were a few things that as I was like revisiting

1410
01:23:12,040 --> 01:23:14,760
Speaker 2: some of the criticisms that I pre I mean the

1411
01:23:14,840 --> 01:23:18,360
Speaker 2: fact like, it's to me impossible to and this is

1412
01:23:18,400 --> 01:23:20,400
Speaker 2: not a brave stance. It's impossible to look at this

1413
01:23:20,479 --> 01:23:27,000
Speaker 2: relationship and be like, seems healthy. Yeah, it's definitely not.

1414
01:23:27,840 --> 01:23:30,800
Speaker 2: There's absolutely stocking. The gaslighting, like you're saying, Caitlin is

1415
01:23:30,840 --> 01:23:34,519
Speaker 2: like so over the top that it feels like literally

1416
01:23:34,880 --> 01:23:37,000
Speaker 2: a handout of like this is what a gas lighter

1417
01:23:37,120 --> 01:23:40,320
Speaker 2: might say of like you don't know what you're talking about.

1418
01:23:40,400 --> 01:23:42,800
Speaker 2: You must have bonked your head, like you know, just

1419
01:23:42,920 --> 01:23:47,519
Speaker 2: really really unsophisticated stuff. And the thing is, like I

1420
01:23:47,560 --> 01:23:49,360
Speaker 2: still feel that way. I know that there's been a

1421
01:23:49,360 --> 01:23:53,120
Speaker 2: lot of history that looks at the original backlash I

1422
01:23:53,120 --> 01:23:55,280
Speaker 2: guess I'm curious, Yeah, where we all stand on that,

1423
01:23:55,320 --> 01:23:58,360
Speaker 2: because there are still a lot of the initial criticisms

1424
01:23:58,360 --> 01:24:02,240
Speaker 2: that I felt about this movie. I still feel like, I,

1425
01:24:02,560 --> 01:24:04,479
Speaker 2: you know, I'm not gonna be like after eight years,

1426
01:24:04,600 --> 01:24:07,000
Speaker 2: I think that they actually have a great relationship. And

1427
01:24:07,080 --> 01:24:10,080
Speaker 2: also the thing that is never gonna sit quite right

1428
01:24:10,120 --> 01:24:14,479
Speaker 2: with me, even with the reflection on some of I

1429
01:24:14,479 --> 01:24:18,519
Speaker 2: think the more extreme criticisms of Twilight at the time

1430
01:24:18,760 --> 01:24:22,040
Speaker 2: is that this is media that's you know, marketed at

1431
01:24:22,120 --> 01:24:25,479
Speaker 2: middle schoolers and high schoolers, so it's marketed at impressionable people,

1432
01:24:26,040 --> 01:24:31,040
Speaker 2: right and with all due respect to the youth, I

1433
01:24:31,080 --> 01:24:33,680
Speaker 2: saw Juno and my takeaway was I have to get

1434
01:24:33,720 --> 01:24:37,759
Speaker 2: pregnant right now because I like Juno and Juno was pregnant,

1435
01:24:38,120 --> 01:24:42,040
Speaker 2: and so if there's even a risk that someone is

1436
01:24:43,280 --> 01:24:47,360
Speaker 2: like that and this is, you know, something that you're

1437
01:24:47,479 --> 01:24:51,400
Speaker 2: very emotionally invested in, I think that that is very

1438
01:24:51,560 --> 01:24:55,160
Speaker 2: up for debate, despite what the intent of the author

1439
01:24:55,240 --> 01:24:58,600
Speaker 2: might have been. I think that something I've moved on

1440
01:24:59,040 --> 01:25:02,240
Speaker 2: is movies that a very clearly marketed and intended for

1441
01:25:02,360 --> 01:25:06,960
Speaker 2: adults having unhealthy relationship dynamics, where it's like, Okay, you know,

1442
01:25:07,040 --> 01:25:09,559
Speaker 2: if a movie is fully intended for adults and mainly

1443
01:25:09,600 --> 01:25:12,240
Speaker 2: being consumed by adults, and you see an unhealthy relationship

1444
01:25:12,320 --> 01:25:15,080
Speaker 2: dynamic and you say, I want that. To some extent,

1445
01:25:15,160 --> 01:25:18,559
Speaker 2: that's on you because you're a grownup, and not every

1446
01:25:18,560 --> 01:25:21,799
Speaker 2: movie can model perfect relationship dynamics, But when you're modeling

1447
01:25:21,840 --> 01:25:26,680
Speaker 2: them to an audience that are probably entering their first relationships,

1448
01:25:26,720 --> 01:25:30,120
Speaker 2: it is I think still right. You know, I stand

1449
01:25:30,160 --> 01:25:32,559
Speaker 2: by and I think it is a valid discussion to have.

1450
01:25:33,600 --> 01:25:37,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, I think, like definitely, Like when I first

1451
01:25:37,400 --> 01:25:40,320
Speaker 3: read the books, and then also when I first watched

1452
01:25:40,320 --> 01:25:44,880
Speaker 3: the movie, I was completely convinced that this was a

1453
01:25:45,200 --> 01:25:48,960
Speaker 3: beautiful love story. And I was convinced then too that

1454
01:25:49,120 --> 01:25:52,880
Speaker 3: everything that he was doing was because he loved her,

1455
01:25:52,920 --> 01:25:56,120
Speaker 3: And I didn't find it to be controlling or gas lighty.

1456
01:25:56,840 --> 01:25:59,360
Speaker 3: But really, you know, what I mentioned before at the

1457
01:25:59,400 --> 01:26:02,240
Speaker 3: beginning is that I grew up in a very sheltered environment.

1458
01:26:02,400 --> 01:26:07,600
Speaker 3: I grew up in a religious cult, very like Pentecostal adjacent.

1459
01:26:08,120 --> 01:26:12,960
Speaker 3: So the misogyny was, you know, real thick. And you know,

1460
01:26:13,080 --> 01:26:17,120
Speaker 3: for me, this was not so far off from what

1461
01:26:17,600 --> 01:26:22,200
Speaker 3: I had known and already experienced, so it was easy

1462
01:26:22,240 --> 01:26:26,880
Speaker 3: for me to make that leap from this very religious

1463
01:26:26,960 --> 01:26:32,040
Speaker 3: upbringing to then you know, Edward being very controlling and

1464
01:26:32,479 --> 01:26:36,480
Speaker 3: gaslighting and stocking her. It just was an easy transition

1465
01:26:36,560 --> 01:26:39,479
Speaker 3: for me. I didn't really question it, which is when

1466
01:26:39,479 --> 01:26:42,599
Speaker 3: I look back at it, very scary to think about,

1467
01:26:43,600 --> 01:26:46,599
Speaker 3: and you know, like it was you know, not only

1468
01:26:47,160 --> 01:26:49,840
Speaker 3: was I a part of a religious system, I also

1469
01:26:49,880 --> 01:26:53,200
Speaker 3: lived in an abusive household. So these were you know,

1470
01:26:53,280 --> 01:26:57,000
Speaker 3: things that I was seeing often and it was just

1471
01:26:57,120 --> 01:26:59,599
Speaker 3: a mirror of my own experience and that was really

1472
01:26:59,640 --> 01:27:02,679
Speaker 3: all that I knew. But it's it's sad that this

1473
01:27:02,760 --> 01:27:06,320
Speaker 3: is what was being sold to, you know, young girls

1474
01:27:06,400 --> 01:27:10,280
Speaker 3: and being told that this is what true love looks like.

1475
01:27:10,720 --> 01:27:13,120
Speaker 3: You know, if he loves you, he'll he'll follow you

1476
01:27:13,160 --> 01:27:15,880
Speaker 3: and make sure that you're protected. Oh nayneh.

1477
01:27:16,520 --> 01:27:19,880
Speaker 2: He'll cut you off from any potential friendship that you

1478
01:27:19,920 --> 01:27:23,920
Speaker 2: could possibly have with anyone of any gender, which is

1479
01:27:24,120 --> 01:27:27,240
Speaker 2: like so egregious, right exactly.

1480
01:27:27,880 --> 01:27:32,760
Speaker 3: And there's just this you know codependence that they have.

1481
01:27:32,920 --> 01:27:34,800
Speaker 3: I mean, thinking about like the end of the movie,

1482
01:27:35,400 --> 01:27:40,879
Speaker 3: the thought of moving to Jacksonville just completely like Bella's

1483
01:27:40,920 --> 01:27:43,679
Speaker 3: like freaking out. She's like absolutely like you could never

1484
01:27:44,160 --> 01:27:47,479
Speaker 3: never leave me, and I think about the line in

1485
01:27:47,520 --> 01:27:49,559
Speaker 3: the movie you know, so the lion fell in love

1486
01:27:49,600 --> 01:27:54,559
Speaker 3: with the lamb, and it's like so so predatory in nature,

1487
01:27:54,680 --> 01:27:57,640
Speaker 3: you know, he is he is a lion and she

1488
01:27:57,920 --> 01:28:03,720
Speaker 3: is this this lamb, And I'm thinking about how I

1489
01:28:03,760 --> 01:28:05,120
Speaker 3: don't know if you all knew, but there were a

1490
01:28:05,160 --> 01:28:07,920
Speaker 3: lot of hot topic came up with like a line

1491
01:28:07,920 --> 01:28:10,519
Speaker 3: of like jewelry around the movie.

1492
01:28:10,920 --> 01:28:11,840
Speaker 2: Oh I bet they did.

1493
01:28:12,720 --> 01:28:14,839
Speaker 3: You'll notice some of the jewelry, like in the scene

1494
01:28:15,240 --> 01:28:19,760
Speaker 3: in the science class when Edward like moves the kind

1495
01:28:19,760 --> 01:28:23,120
Speaker 3: of the slides over to Bella. He's wearing this like

1496
01:28:23,240 --> 01:28:27,120
Speaker 3: leather bracelet with the colin like crest on it. So

1497
01:28:27,320 --> 01:28:31,639
Speaker 3: hot topic was selling all of this jewelry to young kids.

1498
01:28:32,240 --> 01:28:34,799
Speaker 3: So not only was there a jewelry with the crest,

1499
01:28:34,880 --> 01:28:39,080
Speaker 3: there was also a pair of rings that had lion

1500
01:28:39,360 --> 01:28:42,960
Speaker 3: and lamb on them. And who owned them? I did.

1501
01:28:43,840 --> 01:28:47,360
Speaker 3: My first boyfriend gave them to me. And like most

1502
01:28:47,560 --> 01:28:52,639
Speaker 3: like first relationships, it was not a healthy relationship at all.

1503
01:28:52,760 --> 01:28:56,759
Speaker 3: There was so much you know, codependence and controlling behavior

1504
01:28:56,920 --> 01:29:00,360
Speaker 3: from both of us. But we were again a part

1505
01:29:00,360 --> 01:29:03,800
Speaker 3: of a system that just ingrained that in us, So

1506
01:29:03,840 --> 01:29:08,320
Speaker 3: it was that much more I guess dangerous for that

1507
01:29:08,479 --> 01:29:13,479
Speaker 3: message to be continually like drilled into my brain. So

1508
01:29:13,560 --> 01:29:16,000
Speaker 3: like when I think about like my relationship to the

1509
01:29:16,040 --> 01:29:20,160
Speaker 3: movie now, it's it's very strange, and it's layered and

1510
01:29:20,200 --> 01:29:24,160
Speaker 3: it's convoluted, and I have to think about, like again

1511
01:29:24,880 --> 01:29:30,040
Speaker 3: my experiences that I had before watching the movie, and

1512
01:29:30,080 --> 01:29:32,800
Speaker 3: then how I was as a young adult watching this

1513
01:29:32,960 --> 01:29:36,040
Speaker 3: movie thinking that this was, you know, the love that

1514
01:29:36,080 --> 01:29:39,120
Speaker 3: I was chasing, and then now after as an adult,

1515
01:29:39,479 --> 01:29:45,160
Speaker 3: fully understanding that that type of love is so damaging.

1516
01:29:45,400 --> 01:29:48,680
Speaker 3: And I myself have been in you know, abusive relationships

1517
01:29:48,760 --> 01:29:52,479
Speaker 3: later on in my adulthood where there was stocking and

1518
01:29:52,560 --> 01:29:56,559
Speaker 3: like restraining orders and it was just a really really

1519
01:29:56,560 --> 01:30:02,080
Speaker 3: difficult time for me. And this movie, I do feel,

1520
01:30:02,280 --> 01:30:04,720
Speaker 3: like what you said, Caitlin, you have to watch it

1521
01:30:05,280 --> 01:30:09,880
Speaker 3: with the eye of that this is satire. Otherwise, like

1522
01:30:09,960 --> 01:30:15,040
Speaker 3: the indoctrination is again a very very damaging thing.

1523
01:30:15,520 --> 01:30:17,920
Speaker 1: Right, But that's the thing, Like it only feels like

1524
01:30:18,040 --> 01:30:22,400
Speaker 1: satire now in like twenty twenty five because when it

1525
01:30:22,400 --> 01:30:24,880
Speaker 1: came out in two thousand and eight, right, it was

1526
01:30:24,960 --> 01:30:27,479
Speaker 1: coming out in the context of this culture that's still

1527
01:30:28,520 --> 01:30:32,840
Speaker 1: very much normalized this type of relationship dynamic, which is

1528
01:30:33,240 --> 01:30:38,680
Speaker 1: very abusive and predatory as being actually romantic. It was

1529
01:30:39,000 --> 01:30:43,839
Speaker 1: coming out in a culture that rewarded men's predatory behavior

1530
01:30:43,960 --> 01:30:47,680
Speaker 1: like that. So it doesn't fly now it feels so ridiculous,

1531
01:30:47,760 --> 01:30:51,519
Speaker 1: at least to me now, But in the context of

1532
01:30:51,560 --> 01:30:56,240
Speaker 1: it coming out, it was different enough that it did

1533
01:30:56,320 --> 01:31:00,280
Speaker 1: feel very like, oh my gosh, well this is love.

1534
01:31:01,160 --> 01:31:03,320
Speaker 1: I have to model my relationship after this.

1535
01:31:03,800 --> 01:31:07,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I hope it say something positive that this

1536
01:31:07,320 --> 01:31:11,719
Speaker 2: does Riada's satire now, I really hope it does, because

1537
01:31:12,840 --> 01:31:16,559
Speaker 2: I think about, even though Twilight wasn't a complete like

1538
01:31:16,720 --> 01:31:19,160
Speaker 2: hallmark of my youth, I think of like, how many

1539
01:31:19,880 --> 01:31:22,479
Speaker 2: abuse of dynamics that you end up with in your life,

1540
01:31:22,479 --> 01:31:26,320
Speaker 2: And you're like, what was modeled to me that made

1541
01:31:26,320 --> 01:31:29,760
Speaker 2: this okay? And then you can trace that up as

1542
01:31:29,880 --> 01:31:32,120
Speaker 2: far as you like of like, if this is something

1543
01:31:32,160 --> 01:31:34,760
Speaker 2: I saw modeled in someone in my life, what was

1544
01:31:34,800 --> 01:31:37,439
Speaker 2: modeled to them? Was it? Media? Was that people? What

1545
01:31:37,520 --> 01:31:39,360
Speaker 2: was it like? And you just and it's usually some

1546
01:31:40,000 --> 01:31:44,320
Speaker 2: really bizarro mix of everything, like media that's withheld from

1547
01:31:44,320 --> 01:31:46,519
Speaker 2: you with media that's given to you. At dynamics, you

1548
01:31:46,560 --> 01:31:50,240
Speaker 2: see dynamics, you see projected like it's also very like

1549
01:31:50,320 --> 01:31:56,639
Speaker 2: extremely complicated, and this is like not the relationship as

1550
01:31:56,680 --> 01:31:59,920
Speaker 2: a twelve year old to aspire to like that is

1551
01:32:00,800 --> 01:32:03,240
Speaker 2: so clear, and I think that that is like a

1552
01:32:03,320 --> 01:32:05,920
Speaker 2: lot of who was reading this book is people who

1553
01:32:06,000 --> 01:32:10,120
Speaker 2: had not you know, I generally feel like media about

1554
01:32:10,200 --> 01:32:13,360
Speaker 2: seventeen year old girls is mainly being consumed by twelve

1555
01:32:13,400 --> 01:32:16,800
Speaker 2: year old girls because they're looking for a model of

1556
01:32:16,840 --> 01:32:19,560
Speaker 2: who do I want to become? Right and what? I

1557
01:32:20,000 --> 01:32:22,280
Speaker 2: don't know. It's so tricky because I think that like

1558
01:32:22,439 --> 01:32:25,679
Speaker 2: Stephanie Meyer is a piece of shit for so many reasons.

1559
01:32:25,720 --> 01:32:30,400
Speaker 2: But I always sort of, I guess, struggle with all

1560
01:32:30,479 --> 01:32:33,639
Speaker 2: of these cultural issues that have been around for literally

1561
01:32:33,760 --> 01:32:38,439
Speaker 2: hundreds of years falling onto the back of one work

1562
01:32:39,600 --> 01:32:43,280
Speaker 2: like which I do think there is a tendency to

1563
01:32:43,479 --> 01:32:46,240
Speaker 2: do that I know I've definitely been guilty of. Is

1564
01:32:46,280 --> 01:32:50,080
Speaker 2: like there is this very broad, clickable take of like

1565
01:32:50,280 --> 01:32:54,400
Speaker 2: Twilight is making a generation of young women want to

1566
01:32:54,560 --> 01:32:59,040
Speaker 2: enter abusive relationships, where it is a facet of a

1567
01:32:59,120 --> 01:33:02,919
Speaker 2: much larger problem, which I feel like ties into Stephanie

1568
01:33:03,000 --> 01:33:07,960
Speaker 2: Meyer's background, which is as a devout Mormon, and I

1569
01:33:08,080 --> 01:33:14,000
Speaker 2: didn't know anything about Mormon culture in twenty seventeen when

1570
01:33:14,040 --> 01:33:16,800
Speaker 2: we recorded this episode, and I wish I could go back,

1571
01:33:16,880 --> 01:33:19,840
Speaker 2: but I can't. And I do know a lot more

1572
01:33:19,880 --> 01:33:23,719
Speaker 2: about Mormonism now and about how a lot of Mormon

1573
01:33:24,439 --> 01:33:30,400
Speaker 2: values are sort of telegraphed in this work, and how

1574
01:33:30,520 --> 01:33:33,840
Speaker 2: Stephanie Meyer, you know, I think like a lot of

1575
01:33:34,439 --> 01:33:36,559
Speaker 2: authors who are women. We literally just talked about it

1576
01:33:36,680 --> 01:33:38,800
Speaker 2: last week with Judy Bloom, but she was a stay

1577
01:33:38,800 --> 01:33:41,360
Speaker 2: at home mom when she wrote this book, was not

1578
01:33:41,680 --> 01:33:45,640
Speaker 2: anticipated to be successful. It was wildly successful. But you

1579
01:33:45,680 --> 01:33:47,840
Speaker 2: can see a lot of sort of themes of her

1580
01:33:47,920 --> 01:33:50,280
Speaker 2: life come out in this book in a way that

1581
01:33:50,360 --> 01:33:53,519
Speaker 2: is presented as romance, because that's how Stephanie Meyer has

1582
01:33:53,560 --> 01:33:59,800
Speaker 2: been conditioned to understand romance. So the way Stephanie Meyer

1583
01:34:00,080 --> 01:34:02,920
Speaker 2: talks about indigenous people is a completely different issue that

1584
01:34:03,000 --> 01:34:06,400
Speaker 2: I think there's absolutely no defense of her on definitely

1585
01:34:06,439 --> 01:34:09,280
Speaker 2: in the romance department. I do think that there is

1586
01:34:09,439 --> 01:34:13,120
Speaker 2: a like multi generational thing going on. I don't think

1587
01:34:13,120 --> 01:34:16,040
Speaker 2: Stephanie Meyer is sitting in her in like Dexter's lab,

1588
01:34:16,960 --> 01:34:20,080
Speaker 2: petting a cat, being like I'm gonna write the most

1589
01:34:20,200 --> 01:34:23,559
Speaker 2: toxic story ever. I do think that this, like she

1590
01:34:23,600 --> 01:34:25,880
Speaker 2: would repeatedly say this is a story that came to

1591
01:34:25,920 --> 01:34:30,760
Speaker 2: me in a dream, and that to some extent, this

1592
01:34:30,880 --> 01:34:34,000
Speaker 2: is an expression of a fantasy that she has based

1593
01:34:34,040 --> 01:34:36,920
Speaker 2: on her lived experience. As I mean, she went to

1594
01:34:36,920 --> 01:34:41,760
Speaker 2: Brigham Young University, like she was full Mormon, And you

1595
01:34:41,800 --> 01:34:45,440
Speaker 2: can see I think in the like edging like relationship

1596
01:34:45,520 --> 01:34:49,080
Speaker 2: between Bella and Edward, through which a lot of the

1597
01:34:50,040 --> 01:34:54,120
Speaker 2: violent and controlling things we're talking about comes through, are

1598
01:34:54,280 --> 01:34:57,040
Speaker 2: pulled from this, Like I mean, I didn't I knew

1599
01:34:57,120 --> 01:35:00,800
Speaker 2: very little about Stephanie Meyer's biography, but she met her

1600
01:35:00,800 --> 01:35:04,360
Speaker 2: future husband as a child and they had this like

1601
01:35:04,400 --> 01:35:06,360
Speaker 2: long standing crush on each other, but they did not

1602
01:35:06,439 --> 01:35:11,360
Speaker 2: spend any time alone until they were twenty. So it's

1603
01:35:11,400 --> 01:35:17,040
Speaker 2: a very like chastity until marriage kind of culture. Yeah,

1604
01:35:17,200 --> 01:35:20,719
Speaker 2: you can see that in Bella and Edward very clearly,

1605
01:35:21,439 --> 01:35:25,679
Speaker 2: absolutely down to the point where if he quote unquote busts,

1606
01:35:25,840 --> 01:35:28,320
Speaker 2: Bella will die.

1607
01:35:29,040 --> 01:35:31,160
Speaker 3: That's what happens when you have sex, you.

1608
01:35:31,280 --> 01:35:34,960
Speaker 2: Die, right, like because they're not married. But then when

1609
01:35:35,000 --> 01:35:37,120
Speaker 2: she's married, she becomes a vampire, and then she doesn't

1610
01:35:37,120 --> 01:35:39,880
Speaker 2: die if he busts, right, but you still don't see

1611
01:35:39,920 --> 01:35:43,160
Speaker 2: him bust but it's implied, you know, like it is bizarre.

1612
01:35:43,200 --> 01:35:46,480
Speaker 2: I mean, and there's a lot of the contra Points

1613
01:35:46,600 --> 01:35:48,600
Speaker 2: video essay that came out on this topic sort of

1614
01:35:48,600 --> 01:35:53,439
Speaker 2: gets into the history of romance novels and how there

1615
01:35:53,520 --> 01:35:56,799
Speaker 2: has been you know, I think those just like really

1616
01:35:56,800 --> 01:35:59,200
Speaker 2: really complicated, really and it's so tricky because it's like

1617
01:35:59,240 --> 01:36:01,160
Speaker 2: I I look at a lot of this and I'm like,

1618
01:36:01,200 --> 01:36:03,519
Speaker 2: I still feel basically the same way I did in

1619
01:36:03,560 --> 01:36:07,200
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen. I think this is a toxic relationship that

1620
01:36:07,280 --> 01:36:11,200
Speaker 2: is mainly being modeled at preteens, and I don't like that.

1621
01:36:11,240 --> 01:36:14,240
Speaker 2: And the one thing I do like is that this

1622
01:36:14,320 --> 01:36:16,720
Speaker 2: sort of wave of pop culture gave way to like

1623
01:36:16,800 --> 01:36:21,640
Speaker 2: dystopian teen fiction, which tended to have women characters in

1624
01:36:21,880 --> 01:36:27,280
Speaker 2: more politically aware, active roles and not bella swan who's

1625
01:36:27,360 --> 01:36:32,120
Speaker 2: like a human screensaver, no offense. But then also the

1626
01:36:32,160 --> 01:36:37,479
Speaker 2: whole idea that there was this undeniable appeal to this

1627
01:36:37,640 --> 01:36:42,240
Speaker 2: story to a lot of very sweet, wonderful normal people

1628
01:36:42,720 --> 01:36:44,920
Speaker 2: people on this call included.

1629
01:36:44,640 --> 01:36:48,400
Speaker 1: And people of multiple ages, because I mean, your mom,

1630
01:36:49,040 --> 01:36:51,240
Speaker 1: yeah read these books as a full adult.

1631
01:36:51,520 --> 01:36:55,320
Speaker 2: There were moms specific Twilight forums because moms didn't want

1632
01:36:55,320 --> 01:37:00,200
Speaker 2: their kids knowing how they felt about Edward Cohen. This

1633
01:37:00,240 --> 01:37:02,680
Speaker 2: is like the history of romance novels too, is like

1634
01:37:02,720 --> 01:37:07,080
Speaker 2: there's always been an implied shame and enjoying them and

1635
01:37:07,280 --> 01:37:11,080
Speaker 2: the ContraPoints video I say, God, Lover, it's so long,

1636
01:37:11,200 --> 01:37:13,360
Speaker 2: but I rewatched a portion of it to get ready

1637
01:37:13,360 --> 01:37:15,360
Speaker 2: for this, and the thing that stuck out to me

1638
01:37:16,320 --> 01:37:18,479
Speaker 2: that kind of like shifted the way I view this

1639
01:37:18,520 --> 01:37:23,000
Speaker 2: a little bit is the sort of like push and

1640
01:37:23,080 --> 01:37:26,400
Speaker 2: pull that happens between and this is like a pretty

1641
01:37:26,439 --> 01:37:31,440
Speaker 2: heteronal root of structure, but like of feminine fantasy versus

1642
01:37:32,000 --> 01:37:37,400
Speaker 2: what men tend to take away from feminine fantasies. She

1643
01:37:37,520 --> 01:37:41,320
Speaker 2: talks a lot about the idea of surrender as a

1644
01:37:41,320 --> 01:37:45,760
Speaker 2: theme in romance fiction, and you know that is sort

1645
01:37:45,760 --> 01:37:49,680
Speaker 2: of predicated on this idea of there is this expectation

1646
01:37:50,720 --> 01:37:55,479
Speaker 2: of women to take care of everybody. And the part

1647
01:37:55,520 --> 01:37:58,880
Speaker 2: of the idea behind surrender is, you know, while it

1648
01:37:58,960 --> 01:38:02,880
Speaker 2: does read as someone telling you what to do, it

1649
01:38:02,920 --> 01:38:05,280
Speaker 2: can be interpreted and a lot of the appeal of it,

1650
01:38:05,320 --> 01:38:09,439
Speaker 2: based on research, is the idea of not having to

1651
01:38:09,520 --> 01:38:13,720
Speaker 2: do things for everybody, and that explains a lot of

1652
01:38:13,760 --> 01:38:18,280
Speaker 2: the moms who are into this. Right, is like someone

1653
01:38:18,320 --> 01:38:21,559
Speaker 2: who spends a lot of their time, likely because of

1654
01:38:21,600 --> 01:38:24,080
Speaker 2: how domestic work tends to be split up taking care

1655
01:38:24,120 --> 01:38:27,120
Speaker 2: of everyone else, having someone be like, this is what

1656
01:38:27,160 --> 01:38:31,160
Speaker 2: we're doing, and your pleasure is the priority. And so

1657
01:38:31,200 --> 01:38:35,240
Speaker 2: while the romantic dynamics, if you're a twelve year old

1658
01:38:35,240 --> 01:38:39,280
Speaker 2: and you have no understanding of how a relationship you know, should,

1659
01:38:39,479 --> 01:38:43,240
Speaker 2: quote unquote be, can be very dangerous, I do understand

1660
01:38:43,280 --> 01:38:45,920
Speaker 2: the appeal of it in a different context, and like,

1661
01:38:45,960 --> 01:38:50,160
Speaker 2: so that's part of why it's so hard to talk about.

1662
01:38:50,760 --> 01:38:56,599
Speaker 1: Right, So I watched the whole ContraPoints video bravely, all

1663
01:38:56,640 --> 01:39:01,360
Speaker 1: three hours, basically the same length as Titanic. It's hard

1664
01:39:01,400 --> 01:39:05,040
Speaker 1: to summarize because of its length and how in depth

1665
01:39:05,200 --> 01:39:10,000
Speaker 1: it is, but basically, it looks at Twilight through the

1666
01:39:10,120 --> 01:39:16,520
Speaker 1: lens of sexual desire and fantasy by way of prescribed

1667
01:39:16,640 --> 01:39:23,919
Speaker 1: gender roles, social conditioning, power dynamics, human psychology, and how

1668
01:39:24,479 --> 01:39:27,920
Speaker 1: nuanced and complicated all of those things are. Where yes,

1669
01:39:28,400 --> 01:39:33,040
Speaker 1: she acknowledges, the relationship dynamics portrayed in Twilight can easily

1670
01:39:33,439 --> 01:39:38,360
Speaker 1: be considered problematic and predatory. But when you take all

1671
01:39:38,400 --> 01:39:43,559
Speaker 1: of these different things into consideration, and you especially consider

1672
01:39:43,920 --> 01:39:50,400
Speaker 1: patriarchy and something that she calls default heterosexual sadomasochism. I'm

1673
01:39:50,439 --> 01:39:53,439
Speaker 1: not sure if that's a term that she coins or

1674
01:39:53,439 --> 01:39:58,120
Speaker 1: if that's an existing thing, but it's basically this division

1675
01:39:58,160 --> 01:40:03,519
Speaker 1: of sexuality in sexual dynamic into these binary roles such

1676
01:40:03,520 --> 01:40:08,400
Speaker 1: as like masculine and feminine, top and bottom, dominant and submissive,

1677
01:40:09,000 --> 01:40:13,120
Speaker 1: lover and beloved, predator and pray, like all these things,

1678
01:40:13,479 --> 01:40:16,800
Speaker 1: but lumping several of them together in a way that

1679
01:40:17,320 --> 01:40:22,679
Speaker 1: is very very prescriptive of cist gender roles, which is

1680
01:40:22,720 --> 01:40:27,360
Speaker 1: extremely reductive and problematic and ignores the fact that like

1681
01:40:28,280 --> 01:40:31,840
Speaker 1: people can be both masculine and feminine, people can be

1682
01:40:32,960 --> 01:40:35,920
Speaker 1: a switch. They're not just submissive or dominant, you know,

1683
01:40:35,920 --> 01:40:37,960
Speaker 1: you can be both, Like all these things, like all

1684
01:40:38,040 --> 01:40:42,240
Speaker 1: the facets that one person can be or that a

1685
01:40:42,320 --> 01:40:45,559
Speaker 1: relationship can be, where it's not just like this person

1686
01:40:45,720 --> 01:40:49,719
Speaker 1: assumes this role and this person assumes this opposing role,

1687
01:40:49,880 --> 01:40:52,240
Speaker 1: and that's how it has to be, Like things are

1688
01:40:52,240 --> 01:40:55,080
Speaker 1: far more fluid than that, And counterpoints basically comes to

1689
01:40:55,160 --> 01:40:59,400
Speaker 1: the conclusion that maybe actually Twilight is kind of a

1690
01:40:59,520 --> 01:41:02,600
Speaker 1: rejection of this, which like I don't know if I

1691
01:41:02,640 --> 01:41:05,720
Speaker 1: fully agree with. But and then also for me, like

1692
01:41:06,720 --> 01:41:09,559
Speaker 1: it is all about the audience consuming this.

1693
01:41:10,320 --> 01:41:13,439
Speaker 2: Right, That's the main thing that was like hard for me, Right.

1694
01:41:13,479 --> 01:41:16,840
Speaker 1: If you are a full adult who has come to

1695
01:41:17,760 --> 01:41:20,760
Speaker 1: probably not peak emotional intelligence because you know, we're all

1696
01:41:20,800 --> 01:41:24,480
Speaker 1: on a journey constantly, no one's there. Yeah, it depends

1697
01:41:24,640 --> 01:41:27,640
Speaker 1: a lot on the age and maturity level of the

1698
01:41:27,680 --> 01:41:31,600
Speaker 1: person consuming this. And because this saga the series is

1699
01:41:32,400 --> 01:41:40,080
Speaker 1: directed primarily toward children slash tweens slash young teens. Again,

1700
01:41:40,120 --> 01:41:43,040
Speaker 1: it's like, yes, the source material is a product of

1701
01:41:43,880 --> 01:41:48,599
Speaker 1: Stephanie Meyers and so many people's conditioning as far as

1702
01:41:48,680 --> 01:41:51,040
Speaker 1: what a relationship is supposed to look like. But then

1703
01:41:51,760 --> 01:41:56,400
Speaker 1: this movie like reinforces that in a way that's incredibly problematic,

1704
01:41:56,439 --> 01:42:00,800
Speaker 1: where we hopefully and definitely now are seen a lot

1705
01:42:00,840 --> 01:42:05,679
Speaker 1: more media that rejects a lot of the very abusive

1706
01:42:05,720 --> 01:42:10,280
Speaker 1: relationship dynamics we see in Twilight and posits healthier versions

1707
01:42:10,479 --> 01:42:14,240
Speaker 1: of young people and people of all ages in relationships.

1708
01:42:14,320 --> 01:42:18,320
Speaker 1: But we just weren't there in the you know, mid

1709
01:42:18,360 --> 01:42:21,120
Speaker 1: two thousands and did the late two thousands and stuff

1710
01:42:21,120 --> 01:42:23,320
Speaker 1: when these movies and books were coming out.

1711
01:42:23,320 --> 01:42:27,160
Speaker 2: Or really for like ten years after that, Like right, yeah,

1712
01:42:27,200 --> 01:42:30,080
Speaker 2: and maybe arguably now, like we're living in a time

1713
01:42:30,120 --> 01:42:31,960
Speaker 2: of regression unfortunately.

1714
01:42:32,320 --> 01:42:35,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the total trad wife thing that's coming

1715
01:42:35,520 --> 01:42:36,160
Speaker 1: back around.

1716
01:42:36,640 --> 01:42:39,519
Speaker 3: Oh trad wives. Don't even get me started on trad wife.

1717
01:42:39,640 --> 01:42:44,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, oh god, I agree with you, Caitlin. I

1718
01:42:44,680 --> 01:42:48,599
Speaker 2: think that like, I really enjoyed the ContraPoints take on it,

1719
01:42:48,640 --> 01:42:52,720
Speaker 2: and I learned I learned a lot about the way

1720
01:42:52,760 --> 01:42:55,479
Speaker 2: that romance has been Again, then I think that like

1721
01:42:55,760 --> 01:42:59,120
Speaker 2: does pull in a valid point that I want to

1722
01:42:59,120 --> 01:43:02,800
Speaker 2: get into, is like the idea that media that is

1723
01:43:03,400 --> 01:43:07,920
Speaker 2: targeted at any like, any group that isn't CIS men

1724
01:43:08,520 --> 01:43:12,280
Speaker 2: and CIS white men specifically, will be presented as a

1725
01:43:12,400 --> 01:43:16,599
Speaker 2: danger to society, and that it really requires a close

1726
01:43:16,640 --> 01:43:19,800
Speaker 2: look at the source material to determine is that actually so?

1727
01:43:20,240 --> 01:43:24,080
Speaker 2: But I think that what I learned more from her

1728
01:43:24,720 --> 01:43:28,760
Speaker 2: piece on it was understanding why moms liked it and

1729
01:43:28,800 --> 01:43:33,440
Speaker 2: that actually wasn't too weird. But I didn't feel satisfied

1730
01:43:33,560 --> 01:43:37,200
Speaker 2: as to like, well, but what if you're you know, twelve,

1731
01:43:37,520 --> 01:43:41,960
Speaker 2: and you are years away from having any sort of

1732
01:43:42,080 --> 01:43:46,360
Speaker 2: romantic connection with someone, and this is like consuming your life,

1733
01:43:46,360 --> 01:43:50,400
Speaker 2: which was true for hundreds of thousands of young people.

1734
01:43:50,720 --> 01:43:51,000
Speaker 1: Right.

1735
01:43:51,080 --> 01:43:53,760
Speaker 2: I did appreciate seeing it, but I think it did

1736
01:43:53,800 --> 01:43:57,120
Speaker 2: sort of not quite get to like. But who was

1737
01:43:57,200 --> 01:44:00,960
Speaker 2: this targeted at. Yeah, that brought me to sort of

1738
01:44:00,960 --> 01:44:05,880
Speaker 2: something that I wanted to touch on callback that capacious

1739
01:44:06,000 --> 01:44:11,360
Speaker 2: journal assay I was talking about about not just being

1740
01:44:11,400 --> 01:44:15,760
Speaker 2: ashamed of liking the Twilight Yes series and being like, no,

1741
01:44:16,080 --> 01:44:19,439
Speaker 2: I would never like a popular thing that everyone likes,

1742
01:44:20,320 --> 01:44:25,080
Speaker 2: and specifically where there was a resurgence during the early

1743
01:44:25,200 --> 01:44:29,360
Speaker 2: days of lockdown with queer communities in re embracing this.

1744
01:44:29,720 --> 01:44:33,920
Speaker 2: I saw this firsthand with Wait, actually, I'm going to

1745
01:44:34,000 --> 01:44:40,400
Speaker 2: read my friend's letterboxed review of Twilight Please to illustrate

1746
01:44:40,439 --> 01:44:45,839
Speaker 2: this point. I feel like Cam will be okay with it. Okay,

1747
01:44:46,479 --> 01:44:51,240
Speaker 2: this is my friend Cameron's review from January nineteenth, twenty

1748
01:44:51,240 --> 01:44:55,920
Speaker 2: twenty five. Okay, yeah, and Cam's about my age and

1749
01:44:56,000 --> 01:44:57,920
Speaker 2: they're I mean, they're the best. I can't believe I've

1750
01:44:57,920 --> 01:45:00,000
Speaker 2: never rated this, obviously, this is one of my favorite

1751
01:45:00,080 --> 01:45:03,120
Speaker 2: films in the entire world. I cannot truly explain what

1752
01:45:03,160 --> 01:45:05,080
Speaker 2: this film did to me as a seventeen year old

1753
01:45:05,160 --> 01:45:07,920
Speaker 2: virgin high school senior who had never kissed anyone and

1754
01:45:08,040 --> 01:45:10,600
Speaker 2: was depressed out of their gourd because they were unknowingly

1755
01:45:10,680 --> 01:45:14,320
Speaker 2: transcend gay and also had an undiagnosed mood disorder. The

1756
01:45:14,360 --> 01:45:16,840
Speaker 2: books in this film were integral to my survival, and

1757
01:45:16,880 --> 01:45:21,000
Speaker 2: I owe Stephanie Meyer's untalented sicko ass mind a whole lot.

1758
01:45:22,800 --> 01:45:26,560
Speaker 2: I think that this encapsulates a lot of people's experience

1759
01:45:26,680 --> 01:45:27,440
Speaker 2: with Twilight.

1760
01:45:27,520 --> 01:45:30,880
Speaker 3: Honestly, Yes, Oh my goodness, thank you.

1761
01:45:31,000 --> 01:45:31,200
Speaker 2: Cam.

1762
01:45:31,439 --> 01:45:32,400
Speaker 3: Cam is their name?

1763
01:45:32,479 --> 01:45:32,960
Speaker 2: Cam? Yeah?

1764
01:45:33,000 --> 01:45:38,760
Speaker 3: Cameron, Yeah, Cameron. I feel this absolutely, like completely, I

1765
01:45:38,800 --> 01:45:42,439
Speaker 3: am grateful for like Sephanie Meyer's sick oh mind, because

1766
01:45:42,439 --> 01:45:47,559
Speaker 3: I it is like this weird nostalgic like comfort Watch

1767
01:45:47,640 --> 01:45:50,599
Speaker 3: that I continue to like return to again and again

1768
01:45:50,720 --> 01:45:54,920
Speaker 3: and again. And I think, Caitlyn, you said that you've

1769
01:45:54,920 --> 01:45:58,240
Speaker 3: watched the movie like fifteen times or something like that. Yeah,

1770
01:45:58,280 --> 01:46:01,280
Speaker 3: and I think, like fifteen that's how much I maybe

1771
01:46:01,320 --> 01:46:03,320
Speaker 3: watched the movie in a matter of like two months.

1772
01:46:03,360 --> 01:46:07,120
Speaker 3: Like I this movie is always on my TV. It's like, oh,

1773
01:46:07,120 --> 01:46:09,680
Speaker 3: i'm folding laundry, let me put on Twilight. Oh I'm

1774
01:46:09,680 --> 01:46:10,720
Speaker 3: having a really bad day.

1775
01:46:10,920 --> 01:46:11,440
Speaker 2: Twilight.

1776
01:46:11,760 --> 01:46:14,559
Speaker 3: Oh it just got broken up with New Moon because

1777
01:46:15,080 --> 01:46:18,000
Speaker 3: oh right, this bitch likes to lean into the heartbreak.

1778
01:46:18,320 --> 01:46:24,040
Speaker 3: Do you know what I'm saying. There's a pity, Yes, yes,

1779
01:46:24,479 --> 01:46:27,640
Speaker 3: I've even wrote in a Twilight poem or two, and

1780
01:46:27,680 --> 01:46:30,519
Speaker 3: a friend of mine we really want to edit an

1781
01:46:30,560 --> 01:46:35,880
Speaker 3: anthology on poems based off of Twilight. And I think

1782
01:46:35,880 --> 01:46:38,759
Speaker 3: for me, like, one of the reasons why I adore

1783
01:46:38,800 --> 01:46:42,000
Speaker 3: Twilight with all of its problems is because it's so

1784
01:46:42,479 --> 01:46:46,479
Speaker 3: ridiculous at least you know again now, it's like this

1785
01:46:46,800 --> 01:46:53,040
Speaker 3: expected ridiculousness that feels very very comfortable to me. It's

1786
01:46:53,080 --> 01:46:54,760
Speaker 3: so much of a go to to me that I

1787
01:46:54,760 --> 01:46:58,680
Speaker 3: can't really imagine my life without it, which sounds like

1788
01:46:59,479 --> 01:47:03,120
Speaker 3: really wild, but it's like to me, it's like just

1789
01:47:03,200 --> 01:47:06,160
Speaker 3: as important to my survival as my wellview trend. Like

1790
01:47:06,240 --> 01:47:11,479
Speaker 3: I need my Twilight to kind of be a like

1791
01:47:11,640 --> 01:47:16,639
Speaker 3: healing bomb to the shit of the world, and it's

1792
01:47:16,720 --> 01:47:22,080
Speaker 3: like a satirical toxicity that I can somehow kind of

1793
01:47:22,120 --> 01:47:26,400
Speaker 3: digest as opposed to the toxicity that is actually happening,

1794
01:47:26,439 --> 01:47:29,880
Speaker 3: you know, outside of my door right that I you know,

1795
01:47:29,960 --> 01:47:32,360
Speaker 3: really want to run away from. So like, I'm so

1796
01:47:32,400 --> 01:47:37,160
Speaker 3: grateful that your friend Cameron wrote that review. It feels

1797
01:47:37,600 --> 01:47:42,000
Speaker 3: I feel so seen by that. That's gorgeous they were.

1798
01:47:41,920 --> 01:47:43,640
Speaker 2: Brave enough to say. I mean, then I think that

1799
01:47:43,640 --> 01:47:47,160
Speaker 2: that is like a very common experience more recently, is

1800
01:47:47,160 --> 01:47:50,439
Speaker 2: that like, this is also just becoming an adult where

1801
01:47:50,479 --> 01:47:52,479
Speaker 2: you don't have to give a fuck what others think

1802
01:47:52,560 --> 01:47:53,200
Speaker 2: quite as much.

1803
01:47:53,800 --> 01:47:56,280
Speaker 1: But yeah, a beautiful space.

1804
01:47:56,000 --> 01:47:59,960
Speaker 2: To be in, that sweet release that we've all experienced

1805
01:48:00,200 --> 01:48:00,960
Speaker 2: mid thirties.

1806
01:48:01,080 --> 01:48:01,639
Speaker 3: It's great.

1807
01:48:02,200 --> 01:48:06,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, But there was and again I think this was

1808
01:48:06,560 --> 01:48:10,599
Speaker 2: about ten years ago. What the conversation stopped at was

1809
01:48:11,040 --> 01:48:15,320
Speaker 2: that things that are marketed to and this is a

1810
01:48:15,320 --> 01:48:17,599
Speaker 2: broad umbrellaturn, but at the time that things that are

1811
01:48:17,640 --> 01:48:22,600
Speaker 2: marketed to teen girls are universally made out to be

1812
01:48:22,760 --> 01:48:26,000
Speaker 2: a societal ill and embarrassing and don't admit that you

1813
01:48:26,080 --> 01:48:27,479
Speaker 2: like it, and if you admit that you like it,

1814
01:48:27,479 --> 01:48:30,559
Speaker 2: your cringe, which I do think is true, and that

1815
01:48:30,880 --> 01:48:34,920
Speaker 2: is I think still to this day true. But that

1816
01:48:35,040 --> 01:48:37,120
Speaker 2: was sort of where the criticism stopped and where I

1817
01:48:37,160 --> 01:48:39,960
Speaker 2: appreciate where it's gone, and I feel like where I

1818
01:48:40,040 --> 01:48:44,600
Speaker 2: hope it continues going is there is clearly an appeal

1819
01:48:44,800 --> 01:48:49,160
Speaker 2: to stories like this to and again teen girls I'm

1820
01:48:49,240 --> 01:48:52,519
Speaker 2: using very very generally here, but there's still a very

1821
01:48:52,560 --> 01:48:55,640
Speaker 2: broad appeal to it. And so it's like then the

1822
01:48:55,680 --> 01:49:00,200
Speaker 2: responsibility of their parents and mentors to talk to them

1823
01:49:00,240 --> 01:49:04,120
Speaker 2: about why, because again, it's like, it's very easy to

1824
01:49:04,160 --> 01:49:07,960
Speaker 2: be like Twilight is the problem, or I think like,

1825
01:49:08,080 --> 01:49:12,760
Speaker 2: you know, whichever bout of media is the problem, then

1826
01:49:12,920 --> 01:49:17,759
Speaker 2: actually interrogating well, where did this come from? Because Stephanie

1827
01:49:17,840 --> 01:49:20,600
Speaker 2: Meyer is a deeply problematic person, but she had no

1828
01:49:20,680 --> 01:49:22,799
Speaker 2: idea that this was going to sell millions and millions

1829
01:49:22,800 --> 01:49:25,519
Speaker 2: of copies. I think the more important question is why

1830
01:49:25,560 --> 01:49:28,240
Speaker 2: does this sell millions and millions of copies? Why is

1831
01:49:28,280 --> 01:49:32,639
Speaker 2: it so appealing to us? And how can you talk

1832
01:49:32,800 --> 01:49:37,360
Speaker 2: to the intended audience for this without being an old loser.

1833
01:49:37,800 --> 01:49:40,120
Speaker 2: I don't have the answers to these questions, but I

1834
01:49:40,160 --> 01:49:43,040
Speaker 2: feel like they're worth asking instead of being like Twilight

1835
01:49:43,320 --> 01:49:47,200
Speaker 2: is bad for youth, maybe, but they like it, so

1836
01:49:47,240 --> 01:49:50,200
Speaker 2: we should figure it out, you know, and like and

1837
01:49:50,240 --> 01:49:53,519
Speaker 2: we liked it. Yeah, So anyways, we're getting into like

1838
01:49:53,520 --> 01:49:55,880
Speaker 2: the queer fan base, which you know, we've talked about

1839
01:49:55,920 --> 01:49:58,880
Speaker 2: on this show many times. A lot of aggressively heteronormative

1840
01:49:58,920 --> 01:50:03,040
Speaker 2: stories have been embrace by queer audiences, and I wanted

1841
01:50:03,080 --> 01:50:04,880
Speaker 2: to get into I don't think we talked about this

1842
01:50:04,960 --> 01:50:07,000
Speaker 2: with Twilight last time, and I don't think it was

1843
01:50:07,040 --> 01:50:12,040
Speaker 2: really talked about because there was still Twilight enjoying stigma

1844
01:50:12,720 --> 01:50:17,200
Speaker 2: at that time. True, So this is from that capacious

1845
01:50:17,920 --> 01:50:21,040
Speaker 2: journal essay still not as gay as Twilight, which I

1846
01:50:21,040 --> 01:50:22,920
Speaker 2: guess was a meme. I did not remember that.

1847
01:50:23,120 --> 01:50:23,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't see that.

1848
01:50:24,000 --> 01:50:26,080
Speaker 2: I don't think ever, but I guess it was a

1849
01:50:26,240 --> 01:50:28,800
Speaker 2: very online meme from the early twenty tens, you know,

1850
01:50:28,920 --> 01:50:31,519
Speaker 2: And it would often be queer users would post a

1851
01:50:31,560 --> 01:50:35,280
Speaker 2: photo from like blue is the warmest color and then

1852
01:50:35,360 --> 01:50:38,760
Speaker 2: be like, still not as gay as Twilight, and that

1853
01:50:39,160 --> 01:50:43,439
Speaker 2: is that's the meme, basically postmodern affect, nostalgia and queer

1854
01:50:43,439 --> 01:50:46,200
Speaker 2: Twilight renaissance during the COVID nineteen pandemic, and a lot

1855
01:50:46,200 --> 01:50:50,080
Speaker 2: of this was just sort of analyzing to some extent,

1856
01:50:50,280 --> 01:50:54,000
Speaker 2: just the broader shame no matter what your identity was

1857
01:50:54,280 --> 01:50:57,280
Speaker 2: around enjoying Twilight at this time, which we've talked about,

1858
01:50:57,479 --> 01:51:00,320
Speaker 2: but also their queer fandom. So just to share from

1859
01:51:00,320 --> 01:51:04,120
Speaker 2: that quote, a focal pillar of this comeback is queer.

1860
01:51:04,360 --> 01:51:07,800
Speaker 2: Many queer fans within the Twilight renaissance are quote unquote

1861
01:51:07,880 --> 01:51:11,920
Speaker 2: gayifying Twilight in the early twenty twenties, Twilight is gay,

1862
01:51:12,040 --> 01:51:15,280
Speaker 2: but this time in a good way. One factor that

1863
01:51:15,479 --> 01:51:18,240
Speaker 2: may have kindled the onset of the Twilight Renaissance is

1864
01:51:18,280 --> 01:51:20,880
Speaker 2: when Kristen Stewart, the actor who played Bella in the

1865
01:51:20,880 --> 01:51:25,040
Speaker 2: Twilight film adaptations, publicly came out as bisexual in twenty seventeen.

1866
01:51:25,439 --> 01:51:28,320
Speaker 2: The Twilight renaissance could also be sustained by former fans

1867
01:51:28,360 --> 01:51:32,160
Speaker 2: resisting years of anti Twilight shame with the realization that

1868
01:51:32,200 --> 01:51:36,000
Speaker 2: the mass anti Twilight rhetoric was merely misplaced misogyny that

1869
01:51:36,120 --> 01:51:39,719
Speaker 2: essentially vilified the interests and desires of young women. Another

1870
01:51:39,880 --> 01:51:42,720
Speaker 2: variable that might explain the fandom's heightened activity during the

1871
01:51:42,720 --> 01:51:45,559
Speaker 2: pandemic is Stephanie Meyer's release of the fifth installment to

1872
01:51:45,600 --> 01:51:50,240
Speaker 2: the Novels, which gets into basically Twilight from Edward's perspective,

1873
01:51:50,720 --> 01:51:53,519
Speaker 2: but it also looks into a lot of the queer

1874
01:51:53,560 --> 01:51:57,680
Speaker 2: fanfic that existed around Twilight, which I do remember was

1875
01:51:57,840 --> 01:52:02,360
Speaker 2: quite prolific. You know, Edward, Jacob and you can just

1876
01:52:02,439 --> 01:52:04,679
Speaker 2: kind of let your brain do the math from there.

1877
01:52:04,880 --> 01:52:05,920
Speaker 1: Why what what happened?

1878
01:52:06,479 --> 01:52:09,280
Speaker 2: Just kidding killing You're not ready, You can't You're not ready.

1879
01:52:09,280 --> 01:52:10,160
Speaker 2: I can't tell you.

1880
01:52:11,120 --> 01:52:12,759
Speaker 1: I'm not old enough to know. I'm not ready.

1881
01:52:13,320 --> 01:52:15,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll tell you in a couple of years.

1882
01:52:15,120 --> 01:52:16,439
Speaker 1: Tell you yeah, tell me when I'm older.

1883
01:52:16,800 --> 01:52:20,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, I mean I think that this is

1884
01:52:20,920 --> 01:52:23,800
Speaker 2: a story we're kind of familiar with, and the fact

1885
01:52:23,840 --> 01:52:27,360
Speaker 2: that Edward Cullen as portrayed in the books and movies

1886
01:52:27,520 --> 01:52:32,960
Speaker 2: of again, this very I think confusing, Like, no, vampires

1887
01:52:33,000 --> 01:52:36,120
Speaker 2: are straight scary guys. I'm like, have you seen interview

1888
01:52:36,160 --> 01:52:38,439
Speaker 2: with a vampire? Like, what do you mean? Yeah, what

1889
01:52:38,479 --> 01:52:41,000
Speaker 2: do you mean? Have you seen any vampire?

1890
01:52:41,200 --> 01:52:44,880
Speaker 1: Have you seen Dracula? Have you seen most of them?

1891
01:52:45,680 --> 01:52:49,080
Speaker 2: Like Edward is actually one of the straighter vampires, right,

1892
01:52:49,400 --> 01:52:52,320
Speaker 2: But it was literally just because you know, if you're

1893
01:52:52,439 --> 01:52:57,960
Speaker 2: like a socially conditioned teenage boy, you're like, vampires don't sparkle,

1894
01:52:58,560 --> 01:53:02,240
Speaker 2: that's not scary, you know, And that was literally it.

1895
01:53:02,280 --> 01:53:04,439
Speaker 2: And so the way that gaslers were thrown around on

1896
01:53:04,520 --> 01:53:08,799
Speaker 2: the two thousands, you can imagine how the character Edward

1897
01:53:08,920 --> 01:53:12,759
Speaker 2: Cullin and eventually the actor Robert Pattinson was spoken about,

1898
01:53:12,920 --> 01:53:15,960
Speaker 2: which we can talk about in future installments because I

1899
01:53:16,000 --> 01:53:17,679
Speaker 2: know we're going along. But I do think it's interesting

1900
01:53:17,720 --> 01:53:21,719
Speaker 2: to revisit those press junkets where Robert Pattinson's like, actually,

1901
01:53:22,280 --> 01:53:26,519
Speaker 2: this movie's fucked up, Yeah, in a way that I'm

1902
01:53:26,520 --> 01:53:28,599
Speaker 2: sure he did feel to some extent, but it also

1903
01:53:28,640 --> 01:53:31,400
Speaker 2: does feel like on the defensive of having a future career,

1904
01:53:31,720 --> 01:53:34,400
Speaker 2: because you don't want to be the guy that's like, oh,

1905
01:53:34,479 --> 01:53:37,880
Speaker 2: I totally understand the appeal of this, and I really

1906
01:53:38,360 --> 01:53:40,360
Speaker 2: I mean, or not even that, but even just like

1907
01:53:40,600 --> 01:53:44,160
Speaker 2: I respect the fans of this franchise, which doesn't feel

1908
01:53:44,160 --> 01:53:46,400
Speaker 2: like too much to ask, but I think it's like,

1909
01:53:46,640 --> 01:53:49,120
Speaker 2: if he's thinking about wanting to go on to star

1910
01:53:49,200 --> 01:53:52,160
Speaker 2: in a Christopher Nolan movie, you probably don't want to

1911
01:53:52,160 --> 01:53:55,240
Speaker 2: be Like, the appeal of Twilight makes sense to me.

1912
01:53:56,000 --> 01:54:00,559
Speaker 1: Would he be Mickey seventeen if you know years ago

1913
01:54:00,840 --> 01:54:01,240
Speaker 1: he was.

1914
01:54:01,200 --> 01:54:05,639
Speaker 2: Like Mickey seventeen was mid But yeah, no, I mean

1915
01:54:06,040 --> 01:54:09,559
Speaker 2: maybe not. I don't know. And that's the last. Sorry,

1916
01:54:09,640 --> 01:54:12,800
Speaker 2: there's too much. One of the last things I wanted

1917
01:54:12,840 --> 01:54:16,719
Speaker 2: to touch on was that, as we know, Kristian Stewart

1918
01:54:16,800 --> 01:54:20,040
Speaker 2: Robert Pattinson go on to be huge movie stars. Yes

1919
01:54:20,360 --> 01:54:23,639
Speaker 2: they're Mickey seventeen, their Princess Diana, et cetera.

1920
01:54:23,800 --> 01:54:25,760
Speaker 1: Their love lives bleeding, their love les bleed.

1921
01:54:25,800 --> 01:54:27,840
Speaker 2: I mean, we love that, but I don't know how

1922
01:54:27,880 --> 01:54:29,479
Speaker 2: many people saw it, but it's great and we're gonna

1923
01:54:29,479 --> 01:54:33,520
Speaker 2: talk about it soon. But this movie, for all of

1924
01:54:33,560 --> 01:54:40,160
Speaker 2: its faults, was written and directed by women, and the director,

1925
01:54:40,240 --> 01:54:43,040
Speaker 2: as we've said, is Catherine Hardwick, who broke through with

1926
01:54:43,360 --> 01:54:48,960
Speaker 2: thirteen and this is sort of her big blockbuster movie,

1927
01:54:49,200 --> 01:54:52,480
Speaker 2: and she does not go on to direct any of

1928
01:54:52,520 --> 01:54:55,800
Speaker 2: the other Twilight movies. I was not sure why this

1929
01:54:56,000 --> 01:54:59,560
Speaker 2: reason was. I guess it was because this is I'm

1930
01:54:59,560 --> 01:55:02,880
Speaker 2: pulling from Vanity Fair article from twenty eighteen, but that

1931
01:55:03,400 --> 01:55:08,120
Speaker 2: she chose not to because of just being burned out,

1932
01:55:08,160 --> 01:55:10,120
Speaker 2: and if she wanted to direct New Moon, she would

1933
01:55:10,120 --> 01:55:13,840
Speaker 2: have had to basically never stopped working for like five

1934
01:55:13,920 --> 01:55:17,840
Speaker 2: years or something absurd, and so she opted not to,

1935
01:55:18,720 --> 01:55:22,720
Speaker 2: thinking I think logically that, well, if the first Twilight

1936
01:55:22,800 --> 01:55:25,800
Speaker 2: movie does well, I will not have trouble finding work.

1937
01:55:26,080 --> 01:55:28,200
Speaker 2: And you can imagine how the story goes from here.

1938
01:55:28,280 --> 01:55:32,360
Speaker 2: Because we've heard it about one trillion women directors, she

1939
01:55:32,480 --> 01:55:35,840
Speaker 2: actually had quite a difficult time finding follow up work.

1940
01:55:35,920 --> 01:55:40,720
Speaker 2: Even though Twilight made almost half a billion dollars, every

1941
01:55:40,760 --> 01:55:46,200
Speaker 2: other installment was directed by men, and Katherine Hardwick reflected

1942
01:55:46,400 --> 01:55:52,000
Speaker 2: on this later. I guess interestingly, the screenwriter that Katherine

1943
01:55:52,000 --> 01:55:56,680
Speaker 2: Hardwick advocated for, Melissa Rosenberg, who also wrote step up

1944
01:55:57,000 --> 01:56:00,640
Speaker 2: another classic, Oh yes, and wrote on Deck and the

1945
01:56:00,680 --> 01:56:04,960
Speaker 2: OC so she said two thousands, girly. She went on

1946
01:56:05,080 --> 01:56:08,400
Speaker 2: to write all of the Twilight movies where Catherine Hardwick

1947
01:56:08,480 --> 01:56:11,880
Speaker 2: never came back to the franchise and had a lot

1948
01:56:11,920 --> 01:56:16,720
Speaker 2: of trouble sort of finding comparable directing gigs to this day,

1949
01:56:17,880 --> 01:56:22,560
Speaker 2: which you know, for all of the valid criticisms of Twilight,

1950
01:56:22,640 --> 01:56:26,240
Speaker 2: I think is like kind of ridiculous. Where you think

1951
01:56:26,280 --> 01:56:29,960
Speaker 2: about how many male directors we've talked about that have

1952
01:56:30,080 --> 01:56:32,160
Speaker 2: a movie that breaks even and they never want for

1953
01:56:32,240 --> 01:56:34,960
Speaker 2: work for their entire lives. Here's someone who has. And

1954
01:56:35,000 --> 01:56:37,920
Speaker 2: she also, you can argue, quote unquote turned around the

1955
01:56:37,920 --> 01:56:41,200
Speaker 2: script because there was the original version of the script

1956
01:56:41,240 --> 01:56:45,760
Speaker 2: that was going to be filmed, changed so much about

1957
01:56:46,000 --> 01:56:49,360
Speaker 2: the source material that in some ways, I'm like, this

1958
01:56:49,440 --> 01:56:51,320
Speaker 2: could have been cool, but it is a different story.

1959
01:56:51,560 --> 01:56:55,600
Speaker 2: Bella Swan was a long distance runner, cursed and used

1960
01:56:55,640 --> 01:57:00,600
Speaker 2: shotguns against vampires who killed her father. Whoa And then

1961
01:57:00,640 --> 01:57:03,920
Speaker 2: she wrote jet skis being chased by the FBI, And

1962
01:57:03,960 --> 01:57:06,440
Speaker 2: you're like, well, that's not Twilight.

1963
01:57:06,320 --> 01:57:08,600
Speaker 1: That's not even the Yeah, but.

1964
01:57:08,640 --> 01:57:12,400
Speaker 2: I would see that movie, but that's not Twilight. Oh yeah,

1965
01:57:13,320 --> 01:57:14,320
Speaker 2: So that.

1966
01:57:14,320 --> 01:57:17,240
Speaker 1: Was Katherine Hardwicke's script, Like that was her interpret Oh.

1967
01:57:17,200 --> 01:57:20,080
Speaker 2: No, no, no, that was some random guy who was

1968
01:57:20,160 --> 01:57:24,120
Speaker 2: hired to adapt Twilight being told we don't want only

1969
01:57:24,120 --> 01:57:26,360
Speaker 2: girls to see this movie, so you need to take

1970
01:57:26,400 --> 01:57:29,920
Speaker 2: this source material and make it appealing to men.

1971
01:57:30,280 --> 01:57:34,880
Speaker 1: Basically, Wow, so guns and jet skis.

1972
01:57:34,400 --> 01:57:37,920
Speaker 2: Jet skis from the FBI. Yeah, And I was really

1973
01:57:37,960 --> 01:57:40,200
Speaker 2: struggling with that because I was like, that sounds like

1974
01:57:40,240 --> 01:57:43,960
Speaker 2: a fun movie. But yeah, when Catherine Hardwick came on,

1975
01:57:44,040 --> 01:57:46,640
Speaker 2: she's just like and she read the script and she's like,

1976
01:57:46,880 --> 01:57:48,440
Speaker 2: I don't love this. And then she read the book

1977
01:57:48,480 --> 01:57:50,400
Speaker 2: and she was like, I don't understand how this is

1978
01:57:50,440 --> 01:57:56,600
Speaker 2: the same story. And then she advocated for a woman

1979
01:57:56,760 --> 01:57:59,400
Speaker 2: to write the story and write it more faithfully and

1980
01:57:59,600 --> 01:58:02,120
Speaker 2: for better and for worse. I think Stephanie Meyer had

1981
01:58:02,160 --> 01:58:07,560
Speaker 2: a lot of input in the movie during its production.

1982
01:58:08,000 --> 01:58:10,000
Speaker 1: I mean, she's in cameos.

1983
01:58:10,160 --> 01:58:12,520
Speaker 3: Yeah. I was about to say, the diner scene, here's

1984
01:58:12,520 --> 01:58:15,560
Speaker 3: your breakfast, Steffie. Yeah.

1985
01:58:15,760 --> 01:58:18,680
Speaker 1: She also in the wedding scene later on in like

1986
01:58:18,960 --> 01:58:19,720
Speaker 1: the later.

1987
01:58:19,520 --> 01:58:23,800
Speaker 3: Movies, Yes, she's in the wedding scene. Oh and Breaking

1988
01:58:23,880 --> 01:58:26,520
Speaker 3: Dawn part one, Yeah.

1989
01:58:26,240 --> 01:58:29,040
Speaker 2: She's m night scheimalaning all over.

1990
01:58:29,920 --> 01:58:31,160
Speaker 1: She's Alfred Hitchcocking.

1991
01:58:31,440 --> 01:58:34,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is really funny, cause I don't think I

1992
01:58:35,000 --> 01:58:37,040
Speaker 2: knew it once I was an adult. But the first

1993
01:58:37,040 --> 01:58:38,960
Speaker 2: time I saw the movie, I definitely didn't know who

1994
01:58:39,480 --> 01:58:43,320
Speaker 2: Stephie was. Here's your breakfast, Steffie, but it's so obvious

1995
01:58:43,360 --> 01:58:48,080
Speaker 2: once you know. I enjoyed it anyways. Yeah, Catherine Hardwick,

1996
01:58:48,160 --> 01:58:50,800
Speaker 2: I think is maybe slightly a better director than this

1997
01:58:50,880 --> 01:58:54,360
Speaker 2: movie deserved, and I don't appreciate that having directed it

1998
01:58:54,400 --> 01:58:59,520
Speaker 2: seems to have derailed her career to some extent. Twilight

1999
01:58:59,520 --> 01:59:03,200
Speaker 2: didn't deserve her, but they got her, and I think

2000
01:59:03,240 --> 01:59:05,280
Speaker 2: that that's why the first movie is a lot of

2001
01:59:05,280 --> 01:59:08,120
Speaker 2: people's favorites, because she's she's pulling from the indie playbook.

2002
01:59:08,200 --> 01:59:11,160
Speaker 2: She's playing Radiohead during the damn credits.

2003
01:59:11,560 --> 01:59:16,160
Speaker 3: The soundtrack is like something else. It really is amazing. So,

2004
01:59:17,400 --> 01:59:19,320
Speaker 3: you know, as a former cult kid, like I wasn't

2005
01:59:19,360 --> 01:59:22,080
Speaker 3: allowed to listen to secular music, and then when you know,

2006
01:59:22,400 --> 01:59:25,879
Speaker 3: I started to leave that system, I was watching Twilight

2007
01:59:26,040 --> 01:59:28,760
Speaker 3: and the Twilight movie was like the first time I'd

2008
01:59:28,760 --> 01:59:30,720
Speaker 3: ever listened to Paramore before.

2009
01:59:31,040 --> 01:59:32,520
Speaker 2: Oh, oh my god.

2010
01:59:32,960 --> 01:59:36,560
Speaker 3: That was my introduction to Paramour and Muse. It was

2011
01:59:36,720 --> 01:59:40,280
Speaker 3: just like this again like rum spring U this like revelation,

2012
01:59:40,960 --> 01:59:44,440
Speaker 3: this epiphany of all this amazing music that I'd never

2013
01:59:44,520 --> 01:59:51,560
Speaker 3: heard before, and I felt so like rebellious. And yeah,

2014
01:59:51,800 --> 01:59:56,160
Speaker 3: the soundtrack is amazing. Robert Pattinson is also on the soundtrack.

2015
01:59:56,200 --> 01:59:58,440
Speaker 3: He sings two songs as well.

2016
01:59:58,640 --> 02:00:00,680
Speaker 1: Wait, what I didn't I don't know this.

2017
02:00:00,920 --> 02:00:03,400
Speaker 2: I don't think I remember that you did not know this?

2018
02:00:03,760 --> 02:00:08,160
Speaker 3: Okay, no, no, yes, Robert Pattinson sings he's a musician.

2019
02:00:08,360 --> 02:00:10,560
Speaker 2: What Yes, I knew he was a musician. I didn't

2020
02:00:10,560 --> 02:00:12,320
Speaker 2: know he sang in this God.

2021
02:00:12,600 --> 02:00:15,040
Speaker 3: So there are two of his songs. The first one

2022
02:00:15,240 --> 02:00:19,400
Speaker 3: is the restaurant scene with the mushroom Ravioli. His song

2023
02:00:19,480 --> 02:00:22,760
Speaker 3: is playing in the background, Oh my God. And then

2024
02:00:24,000 --> 02:00:26,720
Speaker 3: the song that is playing in the scene in the

2025
02:00:26,720 --> 02:00:31,120
Speaker 3: ballet studio when Edward is, you know, sucking the venom

2026
02:00:31,240 --> 02:00:36,240
Speaker 3: out of Bella's wrist, that's also Robert Pattinson's song playing Whoa.

2027
02:00:36,640 --> 02:00:41,480
Speaker 2: That's so punk rock, sucking out blood to your own music. Yeah,

2028
02:00:41,720 --> 02:00:45,880
Speaker 2: so I'm seeing Yeah, never think by Robert Pattinson, never

2029
02:00:46,000 --> 02:00:49,880
Speaker 2: think Whoa? Good for him? Good for him? This also

2030
02:00:50,000 --> 02:00:54,320
Speaker 2: got so many teenage girls into Claude Debussy which does

2031
02:00:54,440 --> 02:00:58,000
Speaker 2: crack me up. Like the girls were playing Debussy in

2032
02:00:58,120 --> 02:01:01,880
Speaker 2: the car this summer, Claire to Loon, let's go it

2033
02:01:02,000 --> 02:01:06,160
Speaker 2: was yes, Paramore, Lincoln Park, Claude to be.

2034
02:01:06,640 --> 02:01:09,160
Speaker 1: Yes, oh right, because it's that scene. I feel like

2035
02:01:09,200 --> 02:01:13,040
Speaker 1: that's the only vaguely specific thing that ever gets mentioned

2036
02:01:13,640 --> 02:01:18,520
Speaker 1: in the movie where she goes to Edward's bedroom. She's like,

2037
02:01:18,920 --> 02:01:22,240
Speaker 1: you have so much music, and then we don't know

2038
02:01:22,360 --> 02:01:24,800
Speaker 1: what any of it is except for she hits play

2039
02:01:25,360 --> 02:01:29,880
Speaker 1: and it's that, and then she's like, oh wow, yeah, that's.

2040
02:01:29,640 --> 02:01:30,240
Speaker 2: A good shit.

2041
02:01:30,520 --> 02:01:31,720
Speaker 3: Claire Daluon is great.

2042
02:01:32,160 --> 02:01:35,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. Just to revisit the Twilight one soundtrack, we also

2043
02:01:36,000 --> 02:01:38,040
Speaker 2: have and I think it. I know that like Saint

2044
02:01:38,120 --> 02:01:42,640
Speaker 2: Vincent and eventually ends up there in future installments. But

2045
02:01:43,080 --> 02:01:49,000
Speaker 2: we've got muse Paramore, Lincoln Park, Iron and Wine and

2046
02:01:49,120 --> 02:01:52,880
Speaker 2: Robert Pattinson. Those are the artists that I recognize.

2047
02:01:52,600 --> 02:01:56,840
Speaker 3: Iron and Wine, Flightless Bird, Like, wow, that is a

2048
02:01:56,880 --> 02:02:01,040
Speaker 3: song like no other. H yeah, and that song is

2049
02:02:01,080 --> 02:02:04,360
Speaker 3: actually then there's like a slower version of it that's

2050
02:02:04,360 --> 02:02:07,920
Speaker 3: then played in the wedding scene in Breaking Dawn Part one.

2051
02:02:08,360 --> 02:02:12,840
Speaker 2: Why do I feel emotional hearing that? That's the paradox

2052
02:02:12,840 --> 02:02:15,760
Speaker 2: of Twilight. You're like, I know that this is bad

2053
02:02:16,400 --> 02:02:20,200
Speaker 2: for me, but it gets me emotional and what is that?

2054
02:02:20,760 --> 02:02:22,440
Speaker 2: What is that? And we don't know.

2055
02:02:23,120 --> 02:02:25,880
Speaker 3: I don't know. I think I'm still trying to figure

2056
02:02:25,880 --> 02:02:28,280
Speaker 3: out why I love this movie so much, Like why

2057
02:02:28,320 --> 02:02:32,200
Speaker 3: do I prance around the world with like Twilight t shirts?

2058
02:02:32,280 --> 02:02:35,400
Speaker 3: I'm not completely sure, Like maybe I need to talk

2059
02:02:35,440 --> 02:02:38,080
Speaker 3: to my therapist about it next week.

2060
02:02:39,000 --> 02:02:41,320
Speaker 2: No, I really do think that, like some of the

2061
02:02:41,360 --> 02:02:48,480
Speaker 2: most thoughtful, wonderful, progressive people that I know are obsessed

2062
02:02:48,520 --> 02:02:52,640
Speaker 2: with Twilight. Yes, so there's something going on, there's something

2063
02:02:52,680 --> 02:02:53,240
Speaker 2: in the water.

2064
02:02:53,440 --> 02:02:54,520
Speaker 3: It's just so campy.

2065
02:02:54,720 --> 02:02:58,280
Speaker 1: It's heroin. It's our own personal brand of heroine cannot

2066
02:02:58,320 --> 02:03:01,200
Speaker 1: be explained. I feel like I have a similar It's

2067
02:03:01,240 --> 02:03:05,840
Speaker 1: how I feel about Titanic, and that relationship isn't quite

2068
02:03:05,840 --> 02:03:08,760
Speaker 1: so problematic, but I would still argue that it's pretty

2069
02:03:08,880 --> 02:03:11,680
Speaker 1: problematic between drag and Rose. Sure, and I've seen this

2070
02:03:11,760 --> 02:03:15,640
Speaker 1: movie going on two hundred times now and it's my

2071
02:03:15,720 --> 02:03:19,200
Speaker 1: comfort movie. And I also love that Contra points in

2072
02:03:19,280 --> 02:03:23,960
Speaker 1: her video references Titanic constantly, so that made me feel

2073
02:03:24,080 --> 02:03:25,360
Speaker 1: all warm and fuzzy inside.

2074
02:03:25,360 --> 02:03:29,320
Speaker 2: But millennial canon, you one must reference Titanic.

2075
02:03:29,440 --> 02:03:31,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just like, I'm not even generally compelled by

2076
02:03:32,160 --> 02:03:36,560
Speaker 1: romantic stories, but every once in a while, something like

2077
02:03:36,600 --> 02:03:39,120
Speaker 1: Titanic or something like Twilight, I'm just like, I can't

2078
02:03:39,120 --> 02:03:42,800
Speaker 1: stop watching and we just don't know why.

2079
02:03:43,120 --> 02:03:46,640
Speaker 2: Whether we like it or not. Twilight is a generational text.

2080
02:03:46,720 --> 02:03:49,560
Speaker 2: And that's not to say that it's good, right, but

2081
02:03:49,760 --> 02:03:53,200
Speaker 2: it is a generational touch point, and I think that

2082
02:03:53,840 --> 02:03:57,680
Speaker 2: it is worth engaging with. Yeah, because there's something about

2083
02:03:57,720 --> 02:04:00,840
Speaker 2: it that keeps some of the great minds of our

2084
02:04:00,880 --> 02:04:06,720
Speaker 2: generation really really really loving it. Yeah, there's something to it,

2085
02:04:06,800 --> 02:04:12,680
Speaker 2: and it is ultimately kind of like a weird Mormon fantasy.

2086
02:04:13,440 --> 02:04:16,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, but maybe that's.

2087
02:04:15,960 --> 02:04:18,240
Speaker 2: The shit we like and we should be asking why.

2088
02:04:18,600 --> 02:04:23,280
Speaker 1: And that's what we've done for two hours here today.

2089
02:04:24,680 --> 02:04:27,480
Speaker 2: It does pass the factel tests. It does pass the fact.

2090
02:04:28,000 --> 02:04:30,040
Speaker 2: The last thing I want to say is Renee is

2091
02:04:30,040 --> 02:04:33,240
Speaker 2: a bad mom. Yeah, sorry, she's a bad mom. Yeah.

2092
02:04:33,360 --> 02:04:35,640
Speaker 2: I know that she's supposed to seem quirky, but I'm like, no,

2093
02:04:35,760 --> 02:04:38,440
Speaker 2: this is quirky in this context. Is negligent.

2094
02:04:38,840 --> 02:04:41,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, she doesn't answer her phone, she like loses her

2095
02:04:41,960 --> 02:04:46,680
Speaker 3: phone charger too, Like, how's your kid supposed to contact you. Yeah,

2096
02:04:46,800 --> 02:04:47,920
Speaker 3: call them from a payphone.

2097
02:04:48,160 --> 02:04:51,280
Speaker 1: Your kid is getting run over by vans in parking

2098
02:04:51,320 --> 02:04:53,800
Speaker 1: lots and attacked by vampires constantly.

2099
02:04:53,920 --> 02:04:56,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially if your kid has a chronic condition of

2100
02:04:56,960 --> 02:05:00,840
Speaker 2: falling down. Yeah, you're just gonna We've heard in a

2101
02:05:01,520 --> 02:05:03,160
Speaker 2: very slippery climate.

2102
02:05:03,520 --> 02:05:07,839
Speaker 1: Slippery it's cold and wet there, slippery place.

2103
02:05:08,120 --> 02:05:12,440
Speaker 3: I'm so curious if, like if Bella has what's called

2104
02:05:12,520 --> 02:05:13,839
Speaker 3: Ailer's DOWNLM syndrome.

2105
02:05:14,360 --> 02:05:14,520
Speaker 1: Mm.

2106
02:05:14,760 --> 02:05:16,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, because there's there's different subsets of it, but one

2107
02:05:16,840 --> 02:05:20,400
Speaker 3: of them is like hypermobility, and a lot of the

2108
02:05:20,440 --> 02:05:23,640
Speaker 3: times people with Ailors downland syndrome are prone to more

2109
02:05:23,800 --> 02:05:28,080
Speaker 3: like accidents. I haven't been formally diagnosed with Ailor's downland syndrome,

2110
02:05:28,080 --> 02:05:30,520
Speaker 3: but I do have hypermobility, and I do exhibit some

2111
02:05:30,640 --> 02:05:34,720
Speaker 3: of the clumsiness that Bella has. Like a lot of

2112
02:05:34,800 --> 02:05:37,440
Speaker 3: things fall out of my hands quite easily. So, like,

2113
02:05:37,480 --> 02:05:41,080
Speaker 3: I'm so curious about if that's like Ailor's download syndrome,

2114
02:05:41,160 --> 02:05:45,880
Speaker 3: like coated you know, in some capacity. Interesting But anyways,

2115
02:05:46,120 --> 02:05:48,240
Speaker 3: that's just yeah, fun fact.

2116
02:05:48,400 --> 02:05:51,320
Speaker 1: I guess No, I didn't know that, right, I mean

2117
02:05:51,320 --> 02:05:55,839
Speaker 1: it makes you wonder about different attributes that certain characters

2118
02:05:55,840 --> 02:06:00,240
Speaker 1: are imbued with right, right, that like probably have some

2119
02:06:00,440 --> 02:06:02,600
Speaker 1: underlying thing that the author.

2120
02:06:02,440 --> 02:06:04,680
Speaker 3: Didn't didn't intend fully.

2121
02:06:04,440 --> 02:06:08,560
Speaker 1: Understand, or just like observed in other people but didn't understand,

2122
02:06:08,600 --> 02:06:11,480
Speaker 1: like oh that person has a disability, or you know,

2123
02:06:11,520 --> 02:06:13,000
Speaker 1: whatever the case may be.

2124
02:06:13,480 --> 02:06:19,160
Speaker 2: Speaking of disability. While Gil Birmingham, who plays Billy Black,

2125
02:06:20,400 --> 02:06:25,440
Speaker 2: is a native actor, which is better than we can

2126
02:06:25,480 --> 02:06:29,640
Speaker 2: say of one Taylor Lautner, he is playing a disabled

2127
02:06:29,720 --> 02:06:32,800
Speaker 2: character and is not himself disabled, which I think is

2128
02:06:32,800 --> 02:06:37,160
Speaker 2: always worth calling out. Certainly, which isn't a criticism of

2129
02:06:37,160 --> 02:06:41,760
Speaker 2: Gil Birmingham, because I know indigenous actors have enough difficulty

2130
02:06:41,880 --> 02:06:44,120
Speaker 2: being cast in the first place, but that is again

2131
02:06:44,360 --> 02:06:49,000
Speaker 2: just fully a failure of the production to prioritize any

2132
02:06:49,040 --> 02:06:53,840
Speaker 2: sort of inclusivity in their casting. And outside of that,

2133
02:06:53,920 --> 02:06:56,000
Speaker 2: I mean, it is a very white story. There is

2134
02:06:56,040 --> 02:07:01,560
Speaker 2: some diversity in Forks, Washington, but the characters who are

2135
02:07:01,600 --> 02:07:07,760
Speaker 2: not white tend to have mysteriously small roles, such as

2136
02:07:07,800 --> 02:07:10,480
Speaker 2: I think, Eric, Angela and Tyler I think are the

2137
02:07:10,680 --> 02:07:15,120
Speaker 2: three non white students, and they comparatively to like Mike

2138
02:07:15,440 --> 02:07:19,560
Speaker 2: and Dana Kendrick I don't remember Jessica, they get way

2139
02:07:19,560 --> 02:07:21,800
Speaker 2: more screen time, They get way more focus. It's the

2140
02:07:21,800 --> 02:07:23,280
Speaker 2: white students we're paying attention to.

2141
02:07:23,680 --> 02:07:26,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, as we were hinting at earlier, the movie does

2142
02:07:26,840 --> 02:07:28,160
Speaker 1: pass the Bechdel.

2143
02:07:27,800 --> 02:07:31,800
Speaker 2: Test not well, No, but it does not well.

2144
02:07:32,080 --> 02:07:35,800
Speaker 1: But it's there. But again, that's that's nothing compared to

2145
02:07:36,440 --> 02:07:40,320
Speaker 1: the Nipple scale, the Bechdel cast nipple scale, in which

2146
02:07:40,600 --> 02:07:46,360
Speaker 1: we rated the movie examining it through an intersectional feminist

2147
02:07:46,760 --> 02:07:50,480
Speaker 1: lens zero to five nipples. M I wonder what we

2148
02:07:50,520 --> 02:07:52,480
Speaker 1: gave it on the first episode. I do not remember.

2149
02:07:52,840 --> 02:07:55,280
Speaker 2: I'm gonna look it up, but you I won't tell you.

2150
02:07:55,280 --> 02:07:58,400
Speaker 2: You have to decide, and then I'll hold this secret.

2151
02:07:58,680 --> 02:08:02,720
Speaker 1: Okay, even though we've had a much more nuanced conversation

2152
02:08:03,040 --> 02:08:04,440
Speaker 1: than the first go around.

2153
02:08:04,760 --> 02:08:07,080
Speaker 2: It's a tricky motherfucker. It really is.

2154
02:08:07,520 --> 02:08:08,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, it really is.

2155
02:08:09,440 --> 02:08:13,640
Speaker 1: But I still don't think this movie has a net

2156
02:08:13,800 --> 02:08:17,800
Speaker 1: good impact on society, or at least not for young

2157
02:08:17,840 --> 02:08:22,280
Speaker 1: people watching it. I think for people who maybe watched

2158
02:08:22,280 --> 02:08:26,480
Speaker 1: it as a young person and took the messaging from

2159
02:08:26,520 --> 02:08:29,400
Speaker 1: it which was reductive and harmful, and then had to

2160
02:08:29,760 --> 02:08:31,879
Speaker 1: unlearn a lot of stuff. But again, as we discussed,

2161
02:08:31,880 --> 02:08:36,600
Speaker 1: that's not just Twilight's fault. That's a whole cluster of

2162
02:08:37,240 --> 02:08:41,839
Speaker 1: movies and other media that were presenting a very similar

2163
02:08:42,320 --> 02:08:47,120
Speaker 1: toxic dynamic and framing it as ideal and romantic and

2164
02:08:47,640 --> 02:08:50,720
Speaker 1: something to strive for. So this is just one entry

2165
02:08:50,760 --> 02:08:56,640
Speaker 1: of many things that did that. But this was so

2166
02:08:56,920 --> 02:09:02,080
Speaker 1: popular and so consumed by so many people who were

2167
02:09:02,440 --> 02:09:06,480
Speaker 1: adversely affected by it. But it does have this weird

2168
02:09:06,680 --> 02:09:12,400
Speaker 1: cultural legacy. I don't know. The representation of Indigenous people

2169
02:09:12,480 --> 02:09:16,920
Speaker 1: is absolutely abhorrent and there's no defending it whatsoever, and

2170
02:09:17,120 --> 02:09:20,440
Speaker 1: I'm gonna focus on that as the basis for my rating.

2171
02:09:20,600 --> 02:09:23,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's an intersectional podcast that makes sense.

2172
02:09:23,520 --> 02:09:28,840
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, So it's gonna be one and a half

2173
02:09:28,840 --> 02:09:32,440
Speaker 1: for two nipples. I think I'll say one and a

2174
02:09:32,480 --> 02:09:36,520
Speaker 1: half nipples, but it is. I'd say it's like an

2175
02:09:36,520 --> 02:09:38,480
Speaker 1: eight out of ten on the Caitlin Rompometer.

2176
02:09:38,840 --> 02:09:40,920
Speaker 2: I mean the baseball scene hits.

2177
02:09:41,120 --> 02:09:43,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, one and a half nipples, and I'll

2178
02:09:43,520 --> 02:09:48,080
Speaker 1: give them to a spider monkey, no specific spider monkey,

2179
02:09:48,120 --> 02:09:49,320
Speaker 1: which is spider monkeys.

2180
02:09:49,360 --> 02:09:54,240
Speaker 2: I guess in general, I'm gonna go one nipple. I think,

2181
02:09:55,120 --> 02:09:58,920
Speaker 2: and I say that feeling weirdly defensive of this movie

2182
02:09:58,960 --> 02:10:01,120
Speaker 2: at different points in the episode. I think that this

2183
02:10:01,200 --> 02:10:04,560
Speaker 2: movie is cultural imp I mean, I can't say what

2184
02:10:04,600 --> 02:10:07,320
Speaker 2: the cultural impact is on the whole. I do think

2185
02:10:07,360 --> 02:10:11,680
Speaker 2: that this franchise has a really weird, interesting history that

2186
02:10:11,920 --> 02:10:16,080
Speaker 2: continues to either delight or haunt us, depending on how

2187
02:10:16,080 --> 02:10:18,600
Speaker 2: we feel about it. I think that, you know, it's

2188
02:10:18,800 --> 02:10:20,760
Speaker 2: clearly going to be with us for a while. People

2189
02:10:20,760 --> 02:10:22,800
Speaker 2: still have a lot of interest in talking about it

2190
02:10:22,840 --> 02:10:26,960
Speaker 2: and revisiting it. And I also, you know, this is

2191
02:10:27,000 --> 02:10:29,880
Speaker 2: something that a lot of young people were ashamed to

2192
02:10:30,160 --> 02:10:34,440
Speaker 2: enjoy and therefore could not start a lot of conversations

2193
02:10:34,640 --> 02:10:39,000
Speaker 2: about why that was at the time. I think it

2194
02:10:39,080 --> 02:10:42,440
Speaker 2: is like really interesting. I mean, Bella, you know, bless

2195
02:10:42,480 --> 02:10:45,000
Speaker 2: her heart, she's giving nothing. She never has been, she

2196
02:10:45,120 --> 02:10:48,560
Speaker 2: never will be. And I you know, that's who Bella is.

2197
02:10:49,280 --> 02:10:51,920
Speaker 2: And I know that someone's gonna yell at me about that.

2198
02:10:52,160 --> 02:10:55,280
Speaker 2: And you know, I do think that there is this

2199
02:10:55,560 --> 02:10:59,640
Speaker 2: very conservative fantasy to some extent that has played out

2200
02:10:59,640 --> 02:11:03,120
Speaker 2: throughout these movies of Bella does find some agency, but

2201
02:11:03,120 --> 02:11:05,360
Speaker 2: it's mainly through marriage and motherhood and you know, all

2202
02:11:05,360 --> 02:11:07,280
Speaker 2: this stuff. We all we'll talk about this in later episodes.

2203
02:11:07,760 --> 02:11:11,040
Speaker 2: For this, you know, I did see myself in Bella

2204
02:11:11,160 --> 02:11:13,480
Speaker 2: to some extent as a kid where it was like

2205
02:11:14,000 --> 02:11:16,880
Speaker 2: I didn't feel lighting. In the book, they sort of

2206
02:11:16,920 --> 02:11:19,560
Speaker 2: harp on this a little more of like Bella has

2207
02:11:19,640 --> 02:11:23,600
Speaker 2: never been recognized as attractive or someone who's interesting, and

2208
02:11:23,640 --> 02:11:26,560
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, she's somewhere where she's the most interesting,

2209
02:11:27,200 --> 02:11:31,200
Speaker 2: attractive person in the world, and who what misfit wouldn't

2210
02:11:31,240 --> 02:11:34,440
Speaker 2: be pulled in by that? And I think that a

2211
02:11:34,480 --> 02:11:37,600
Speaker 2: lot of people who felt out of place, that fantasy

2212
02:11:37,960 --> 02:11:40,960
Speaker 2: is so appealing to be desired and for you to

2213
02:11:41,040 --> 02:11:44,000
Speaker 2: be often in a dangerous way, but in a dangerous

2214
02:11:44,040 --> 02:11:47,360
Speaker 2: way that not a lot of people understood in our generation,

2215
02:11:47,560 --> 02:11:51,720
Speaker 2: but like to be wanted. And I think that that's

2216
02:11:51,800 --> 02:11:53,800
Speaker 2: part of why I understand the appeal and part of

2217
02:11:53,920 --> 02:11:57,160
Speaker 2: what still doesn't sit well with me because of the

2218
02:11:57,200 --> 02:12:01,240
Speaker 2: intended audience, where you know, it's not Stephanie Meyer's job

2219
02:12:01,320 --> 02:12:04,680
Speaker 2: to raise us, but I do think it is like

2220
02:12:04,760 --> 02:12:08,640
Speaker 2: the responsibility of others and the larger culture to not

2221
02:12:08,760 --> 02:12:14,560
Speaker 2: just reinforce someone's horny dreams, worst instincts. But there's still

2222
02:12:14,640 --> 02:12:18,120
Speaker 2: so much getting back to what we've been talking about, Yeah,

2223
02:12:18,280 --> 02:12:22,480
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm docking mainly for indigenous representation and the

2224
02:12:22,520 --> 02:12:26,600
Speaker 2: one visit to the library approach and no further compensation

2225
02:12:26,800 --> 02:12:30,800
Speaker 2: or acknowledgement of the people whose culture you are profiting

2226
02:12:30,800 --> 02:12:35,480
Speaker 2: off of directly and misunderstanding and misrepresenting. There's just absolutely

2227
02:12:35,520 --> 02:12:38,920
Speaker 2: no excuse for that. The feminist discourse around this. I'm

2228
02:12:38,960 --> 02:12:43,000
Speaker 2: gonna just be like, go with God, whatever you like there.

2229
02:12:43,040 --> 02:12:44,720
Speaker 2: I have read every take in the world, and I

2230
02:12:44,760 --> 02:12:47,560
Speaker 2: don't know which is right to me. I liked Bela

2231
02:12:48,120 --> 02:12:50,760
Speaker 2: because I was like, I wear these shoes, but ultimately,

2232
02:12:50,880 --> 02:12:53,880
Speaker 2: on revisit, I do think she's boring. I think that

2233
02:12:54,320 --> 02:12:56,960
Speaker 2: Edward's like, I don't see what you're thinking because she's not.

2234
02:12:58,200 --> 02:13:02,480
Speaker 2: But ultimately I think Team Jacob was the right team.

2235
02:13:02,640 --> 02:13:07,080
Speaker 2: One nipple and I am going to give that nipple

2236
02:13:07,280 --> 02:13:11,360
Speaker 2: to the truck. I thought the truck was cool. Oh sure,

2237
02:13:11,440 --> 02:13:13,320
Speaker 2: I liked the truck. I don't care if it's not

2238
02:13:13,360 --> 02:13:15,040
Speaker 2: like other girls truck, I would drop that truck.

2239
02:13:15,200 --> 02:13:20,360
Speaker 1: Okay, awesome, Dean Ally, how about you nipples?

2240
02:13:20,440 --> 02:13:24,840
Speaker 3: Nipples? I'm thinking I think I go for like one

2241
02:13:24,880 --> 02:13:27,360
Speaker 3: and a half basically, Like you know, for a lot

2242
02:13:27,400 --> 02:13:29,960
Speaker 3: of the reasons that you both have mentioned, you know,

2243
02:13:30,000 --> 02:13:34,120
Speaker 3: the indigenous representation is lacking so many different problems with

2244
02:13:34,200 --> 02:13:39,600
Speaker 3: this movie. Portraying a toxic relationship as an ideal. It's

2245
02:13:39,640 --> 02:13:43,040
Speaker 3: really hard to give this movie anything more than one

2246
02:13:43,040 --> 02:13:47,920
Speaker 3: and a half nipples. And I think for me, one

2247
02:13:47,920 --> 02:13:51,080
Speaker 3: of the most like iconic scenes in the movie is

2248
02:13:51,120 --> 02:13:55,600
Speaker 3: the baseball scene with Alice and her pitch with her leg.

2249
02:13:55,800 --> 02:13:58,879
Speaker 1: Oh my god, the little kick, Yes, oh my gosh,

2250
02:13:59,000 --> 02:13:59,960
Speaker 1: what is she doing?

2251
02:14:00,640 --> 02:14:04,600
Speaker 3: It's honestly, it's fucking beautiful. And I think that's when

2252
02:14:04,640 --> 02:14:07,839
Speaker 3: I realized I was bisexual, was when I watched Alice

2253
02:14:07,920 --> 02:14:11,640
Speaker 3: pitch during the baseball scene, and I think that's like

2254
02:14:12,080 --> 02:14:15,520
Speaker 3: a really beautiful thing. So I think at the end

2255
02:14:15,560 --> 02:14:17,880
Speaker 3: of the day, like you know, when I was younger,

2256
02:14:18,040 --> 02:14:22,440
Speaker 3: I was team Edward, but in reality, like I'm definitely

2257
02:14:22,440 --> 02:14:23,560
Speaker 3: like team Alice.

2258
02:14:23,600 --> 02:14:27,000
Speaker 2: Like all the way, Alice is an awesome character.

2259
02:14:27,920 --> 02:14:30,200
Speaker 3: I like her, yeah, and like even like when I

2260
02:14:30,200 --> 02:14:33,320
Speaker 3: think about her relationship to Jasper, which we didn't really

2261
02:14:33,320 --> 02:14:36,800
Speaker 3: talk about, but like I feel like she is kind

2262
02:14:36,840 --> 02:14:40,080
Speaker 3: of more of like the dom and the relationship she's like,

2263
02:14:40,720 --> 02:14:45,040
Speaker 3: I think she's like takes control and I really like

2264
02:14:45,160 --> 02:14:49,840
Speaker 3: that about her. And I see myself more and more

2265
02:14:50,080 --> 02:14:55,560
Speaker 3: in in Alice than any other character in the movie. Sadly,

2266
02:14:55,640 --> 02:14:58,120
Speaker 3: I cannot lift my leg like that when I pitch.

2267
02:14:58,320 --> 02:15:02,920
Speaker 3: I don't even pitch. I don't play sports. I do

2268
02:15:03,040 --> 02:15:06,680
Speaker 3: visit the library though. But yeah, I think I'm going

2269
02:15:06,760 --> 02:15:11,920
Speaker 3: to give one nipple to Alice and her leg and

2270
02:15:12,000 --> 02:15:15,920
Speaker 3: then the other half nipple. I think I'm going to

2271
02:15:15,960 --> 02:15:20,000
Speaker 3: give it to mister Molina, the teacher, because it's a

2272
02:15:20,040 --> 02:15:21,080
Speaker 3: fellow educator.

2273
02:15:22,160 --> 02:15:23,760
Speaker 2: Oh my god, you're so right.

2274
02:15:24,040 --> 02:15:26,560
Speaker 1: No relation to Alfred Molina.

2275
02:15:26,080 --> 02:15:29,560
Speaker 3: But I know how crazy you are about Alfred Molina. Yes,

2276
02:15:29,800 --> 02:15:31,240
Speaker 3: but yeah, I think I'm going to give half a

2277
02:15:31,320 --> 02:15:34,360
Speaker 3: nipple to mister Molina because as a fellow educator, like

2278
02:15:34,720 --> 02:15:41,040
Speaker 3: he's just so earnest about science and you know, really

2279
02:15:41,040 --> 02:15:46,120
Speaker 3: getting these students like invested in STEM. So I really

2280
02:15:46,160 --> 02:15:49,560
Speaker 3: appreciate that about mister Molina. Yeah, I think he says

2281
02:15:49,560 --> 02:15:54,200
Speaker 3: like compost is cool, and it is compost is cool.

2282
02:15:55,080 --> 02:15:57,800
Speaker 3: So I'm gonna give half a nipple to mister Molina.

2283
02:15:58,440 --> 02:16:02,040
Speaker 1: Absolutely, hell yeah, amazing, you know, L like, thank you

2284
02:16:02,080 --> 02:16:04,480
Speaker 1: so much for joining.

2285
02:16:04,160 --> 02:16:06,640
Speaker 3: Us, thank you for having me, yes.

2286
02:16:06,640 --> 02:16:09,040
Speaker 2: And thank you for choosing the exact right shirt.

2287
02:16:09,280 --> 02:16:12,920
Speaker 3: I mean I always do, but especially today.

2288
02:16:14,240 --> 02:16:17,760
Speaker 1: Tell us where people can find you online? Check out

2289
02:16:17,800 --> 02:16:19,760
Speaker 1: your work plug.

2290
02:16:19,560 --> 02:16:22,040
Speaker 3: Away so You can find a lot of info about

2291
02:16:22,080 --> 02:16:26,920
Speaker 3: me on my website at dnlliantigua dot com. You can

2292
02:16:26,920 --> 02:16:30,960
Speaker 3: follow me on Instagram at nowfel thirteen and that's n

2293
02:16:31,000 --> 02:16:34,879
Speaker 3: e l l f e L L one three And yes,

2294
02:16:34,920 --> 02:16:37,039
Speaker 3: I've had that screen name and I've used it for

2295
02:16:37,080 --> 02:16:41,360
Speaker 3: everything since I was thirteen. And yeah, I do a

2296
02:16:41,400 --> 02:16:44,920
Speaker 3: lot of like poetry readings and events locally, but I'm

2297
02:16:44,920 --> 02:16:47,400
Speaker 3: also traveling to like universities, and you can find all

2298
02:16:47,480 --> 02:16:51,120
Speaker 3: the info about my events on my website. My upcoming

2299
02:16:51,720 --> 02:16:55,680
Speaker 3: events are mass Poetry Festival in Salem, Massachusetts, coming up

2300
02:16:56,040 --> 02:16:57,680
Speaker 3: at the end of May, and I don't know when

2301
02:16:57,680 --> 02:16:59,840
Speaker 3: this podcast will be coming out, but I think.

2302
02:16:59,720 --> 02:17:01,280
Speaker 2: Before then, maybe before then.

2303
02:17:01,400 --> 02:17:03,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the thing that I do. I'm one of

2304
02:17:03,720 --> 02:17:07,480
Speaker 3: the headlining poets. Hey, oh my god, so come and

2305
02:17:07,520 --> 02:17:09,560
Speaker 3: listen to my poetry and I'll be on a panel

2306
02:17:09,600 --> 02:17:14,560
Speaker 3: as well with some other LATINX writers. So yeah, that's

2307
02:17:14,560 --> 02:17:16,280
Speaker 3: where you can find me and learn more about me.

2308
02:17:17,000 --> 02:17:20,039
Speaker 3: Oh also, I almost for I have two books. My

2309
02:17:20,080 --> 02:17:23,640
Speaker 3: first one is Ugly Music, and my second collection came

2310
02:17:23,640 --> 02:17:27,240
Speaker 3: out last year with Copper Canyon Press. It's called Good Monster,

2311
02:17:27,400 --> 02:17:30,680
Speaker 3: and you can find those where books are sold be

2312
02:17:30,879 --> 02:17:33,520
Speaker 3: like Bella, buy it independent booksellers.

2313
02:17:33,959 --> 02:17:38,160
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, that's Bella's true triumph of Twilight one. She

2314
02:17:38,240 --> 02:17:39,040
Speaker 2: shops local.

2315
02:17:39,760 --> 02:17:43,600
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, she says Amazon, No, thank you, I'm going

2316
02:17:43,640 --> 02:17:46,959
Speaker 1: into a brick and mortar store and buying local. The

2317
02:17:47,000 --> 02:17:50,040
Speaker 1: best way to support our show is to subscribe to

2318
02:17:50,720 --> 02:17:56,120
Speaker 1: our Patreon aka Matreon, where we release two bonus episodes

2319
02:17:56,160 --> 02:18:01,760
Speaker 1: every single month, centering an amazing genius Brilliant plus access

2320
02:18:01,800 --> 02:18:06,440
Speaker 1: to the entire back catalog, which is nearing two hundred episodes,

2321
02:18:06,520 --> 02:18:12,160
Speaker 1: so lots of hashtag content over there at patreon dot

2322
02:18:12,240 --> 02:18:15,600
Speaker 1: com slash Bechdel Cast. Also check out our link tree

2323
02:18:15,879 --> 02:18:21,480
Speaker 1: link tree slash Bechdel Cast for information about different things.

2324
02:18:21,480 --> 02:18:24,560
Speaker 1: If we have upcoming shows that'll be there. If we have,

2325
02:18:25,280 --> 02:18:29,039
Speaker 1: we have our letterboxed link on there, all kinds of stuff.

2326
02:18:29,520 --> 02:18:35,760
Speaker 1: And with that, let's irrevocably get in our rusty old

2327
02:18:36,120 --> 02:18:40,920
Speaker 1: red pickup truck. Uh huh and zoom zoom into the

2328
02:18:41,000 --> 02:18:50,960
Speaker 1: Twilight Sky. Okay, I don't know, Bye bye. The Bechdel

2329
02:18:51,000 --> 02:18:54,640
Speaker 1: Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Derante

2330
02:18:54,640 --> 02:18:58,680
Speaker 1: and Jamie Loftus, produced by Sophie Lickterman, edited by Mola Board.

2331
02:18:59,160 --> 02:19:02,320
Speaker 1: Our theme song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals

2332
02:19:02,360 --> 02:19:06,320
Speaker 1: by Katherine Voskresenski. Our logo and merch is designed by

2333
02:19:06,400 --> 02:19:10,480
Speaker 1: Jamie Loftus and a special thanks to Aristotle Assevedo. For

2334
02:19:10,600 --> 02:19:14,640
Speaker 1: more information about the podcast, please visit Linktree Slash Bechtelcast