WEBVTT - A New Technology Hiding in Covid Vaccines

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Prognosis. I'm Laura Carlson. It's day two hundred

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<v Speaker 1>and eighty four since coronavirus was declared a global pandemic.

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<v Speaker 1>Today's main story. The first vaccines against COVID nineteen aren't

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<v Speaker 1>just a landmark in the fight against the pandemic. They're

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<v Speaker 1>also the stepping stone for an unconventional technology that could

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<v Speaker 1>one day defeat other ailments that have eluded doctors from

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<v Speaker 1>cancer to heart disease. But first, here's what happened in

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<v Speaker 1>virus news today. UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson imposed tougher

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<v Speaker 1>regulations across a swath of England in an effort to

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<v Speaker 1>rein in the mutant strain of coronavirus that has spread

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<v Speaker 1>across the country. South Korea and the Philippines moved to

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<v Speaker 1>temporarily suspend UK lights, while Japan is strengthening entry regulations

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<v Speaker 1>for people traveling from Britain. Air travel from Britain to

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<v Speaker 1>France resumed after a two day halt, although with eligibility

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<v Speaker 1>restrictions and a virus testing requirement. Italy uncovered the new

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<v Speaker 1>COVID nineteen strain in an infected person with no apparent

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<v Speaker 1>links to the UK Canada's public health authorities approved Maderna's

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<v Speaker 1>coronavirus vaccine, the second to be licensed in the country

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<v Speaker 1>that secured more doses per person than any other. Approval

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<v Speaker 1>of the MODERNA shot will allow Canada to expand its

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<v Speaker 1>vaccination campaign beyond inoculation sites and urban centers. Canada's northern

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<v Speaker 1>regions have specifically requested Maderna doses due to its less

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<v Speaker 1>cumbersome refrigeration requirements. Fiser and partner Bio and Tech agreed

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<v Speaker 1>to double the supply of their covid en vaccine to

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<v Speaker 1>the US. The new agreement brings the total number of

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<v Speaker 1>doses to be delivered to the US to two hundred million,

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<v Speaker 1>the companies announced Wednesday. The drugmakers expect to deliver all

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<v Speaker 1>the doses by July. Also in the US, President Donald

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<v Speaker 1>Trump injected confusion into the outlook for economic relief from

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<v Speaker 1>the pandemic. On Tuesday night, the President demanded changes to

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<v Speaker 1>the bipartisan legislation approved by Congress less than twenty four

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<v Speaker 1>hours earlier, calling for an increase in the stimulus checks

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<v Speaker 1>due to go out to most Americans to two thousand

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<v Speaker 1>dollars from the agreed upon amount of six hundred dollars.

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<v Speaker 1>If the President doesn't sign the legislation by December, government

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<v Speaker 1>funding will lapse after midnight that day. And now for

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<v Speaker 1>today's main story. Both of the approved COVID nineteen vaccines,

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<v Speaker 1>developed by Maderna and the Fiser and Bio and Tech Partnership,

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<v Speaker 1>use genetic material called messenger RNA to effectively transform the

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<v Speaker 1>body's own cells into vaccine factories. This approach is a

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<v Speaker 1>first for vaccines. It relies on decades of clinical research

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<v Speaker 1>into whether messenger RNA technology can be used to treat

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<v Speaker 1>a broad range of ailments, from cancer to the seasonal flu.

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<v Speaker 1>I spoke to Naomi Krasky about whether the validation of

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<v Speaker 1>this breakthrough technology during COVID nineteen could bring about a

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<v Speaker 1>whole new field of medicine. The rapid development of the

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<v Speaker 1>FISER and the MODERNA vaccines has brought a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>attention to m RNA or messenger rn, a technology which

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<v Speaker 1>hasn't been used before in vaccines. I was hoping you

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<v Speaker 1>might give us just a maybe brief overview how messenger

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<v Speaker 1>RNA vaccines work. So these vaccines, I mean, you're right,

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<v Speaker 1>this is a new type of vaccine, and they used

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<v Speaker 1>this genetic material called messenger RNA. This is a single

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<v Speaker 1>stranded molecule that's complementary to one of the DNA strands

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<v Speaker 1>of a gene. This genetic material is essentially what it

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<v Speaker 1>does is transform the body's own cells into vaccine factories.

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<v Speaker 1>And this is something that has been looked at for

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<v Speaker 1>a couple of decades. It took quite a while to

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<v Speaker 1>figure out how to use this effectively. It has been

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<v Speaker 1>studied for a range of potential uses UM and you

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<v Speaker 1>know wound up UM being of effective for the first

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<v Speaker 1>time UM in clinical experiments for COVID nineteen. So maybe

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<v Speaker 1>you can break down what gives m RNA technology the

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<v Speaker 1>edge over conventional approaches to developing vaccines UM, either in

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<v Speaker 1>terms of COVID nineteen or with regard to other diseases.

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<v Speaker 1>So in terms of COVID nineteen, this was sort of

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<v Speaker 1>an ideal test case in some ways for m RNA vaccines.

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<v Speaker 1>The thing that really can make mRNA vaccines different UM.

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<v Speaker 1>There are one obvious thing that's different about them is

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<v Speaker 1>that they can be very quick to develop. And so

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<v Speaker 1>for you know, when COVID nineteen emerged, these companies Moderna

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<v Speaker 1>and BioNTech were able to look at the sequence the

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<v Speaker 1>genetic sequence for the virus in January and start working

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<v Speaker 1>on vaccines at that point, and really then with unprecedented

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<v Speaker 1>speed they were able to come up with good vaccine candidates,

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<v Speaker 1>test those candidates. I mean, in the case of bion Tech,

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<v Speaker 1>they even did UM early human trials on a range

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<v Speaker 1>of different candidates. UM. Their early stage trial was sort

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<v Speaker 1>of a big science experiment in itself to see which

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<v Speaker 1>of these candidates might work the best UM and then

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<v Speaker 1>do massive late stage studies with tens of thousands of

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<v Speaker 1>people all on in a really compressed timeline. And part

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<v Speaker 1>of the reason that they could do that is because

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<v Speaker 1>the early part of coming up with a potential vaccine

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<v Speaker 1>is very quick with m R and A therapeutics compared

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<v Speaker 1>to other types of conventional vaccines. Now, you mentioned that

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<v Speaker 1>the use of m R and A technology had been

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<v Speaker 1>undergoing research for many other diseases, obviously prior to the

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<v Speaker 1>emergence of COVID nineteen. I was just wondering if you

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<v Speaker 1>might go into some of the other diseases that mRNA

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<v Speaker 1>technology could be applied to. One big potential use, and

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<v Speaker 1>actually the main use that the Fiser partner, BioNTech, had

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<v Speaker 1>been looking at prior to covid and is cancer. And

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<v Speaker 1>this is you know, a different way of using an

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<v Speaker 1>m RNA vaccine than in an infectious disease. In this

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<v Speaker 1>case kind of put simply, UM, you're trying to alert

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<v Speaker 1>the immune system to the different things that are in

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<v Speaker 1>cancer cells so that the immune system will attack the cancer.

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<v Speaker 1>It's it's using the mr ANDA vaccine as a therapeutic

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<v Speaker 1>instead of as a vaccine defense against infectious disease. If

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<v Speaker 1>that makes sense. Yeah, I mean, this is something that

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<v Speaker 1>has been looked at for two decades UM and it's

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<v Speaker 1>really a potential coming to fruition um in the next

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<v Speaker 1>couple of years as well if it works, and whether

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<v Speaker 1>it works is still still unclear. Just because this type

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<v Speaker 1>of vaccine works for the coronavirus doesn't necessarily mean that

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<v Speaker 1>it will work against a tumor. And beyond cancer, what

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<v Speaker 1>are some of the other applications UM besides the coronavirus

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<v Speaker 1>as far as treating diseases. So one that really obvious

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<v Speaker 1>application would be any other type of vaccine or infectious disease.

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<v Speaker 1>One potential use and this is something that's already been

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<v Speaker 1>looked at UM is for seasonal flu and actually I

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<v Speaker 1>want to say it was two years ago. UM. A

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<v Speaker 1>year and a half ago, Visor and BioNTech made a

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<v Speaker 1>deal together to work on MR ANDNA vaccines for seasonal flu.

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<v Speaker 1>It's easy to understand how mRNA vaccines might work well

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<v Speaker 1>for right because the flu virus virus has changed a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit every year, and this is why flu vaccines

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<v Speaker 1>need to be kind of tweaked every year, and they'll

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<v Speaker 1>put out a new flu vaccine every year, and there

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<v Speaker 1>is UM. You know, this takes time to do, and

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<v Speaker 1>so you have MR and A vaccines and you can

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<v Speaker 1>compress this time period of coming up with a vaccine candidate.

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<v Speaker 1>It decreases the amount of guessworth that you might have

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<v Speaker 1>to do. And so potentially UM they might be able

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<v Speaker 1>to make flu vaccines that will be more effective than

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<v Speaker 1>flu vaccines that we've had up to now. And that's

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<v Speaker 1>not UM, that's not unsubstantial. So Messenger RNA might also

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<v Speaker 1>help produce vaccines against viruses that have eluded conventional vaccine approaches. UM.

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<v Speaker 1>One program that Moderna is doing UM is a vaccine

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<v Speaker 1>against a virus that can cause birth defects when it's

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<v Speaker 1>passed from pregnant mother to UM to an unborn child,

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<v Speaker 1>and scientists have been trying to come up with a

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<v Speaker 1>vaccine against this virus for half a century, and it's

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<v Speaker 1>possible that the m R and A technology will will

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<v Speaker 1>you know, make this possible for the first time. We

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<v Speaker 1>could see a late stage patient trial starting next year

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<v Speaker 1>with this approach. Now that we have seen the use

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<v Speaker 1>and application of m R and A technology when it

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<v Speaker 1>comes to the COVID nineteen vaccine with Fiser and Maderna

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<v Speaker 1>and the approval thereof, has the development essentially of an

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<v Speaker 1>m R and A technology based COVID nineteen vaccine affected

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<v Speaker 1>the timeline of other treatments that are based on the

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<v Speaker 1>same technology. It's funny and that you should ask that

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<v Speaker 1>because it's sort of a two prompt answer. Um Like,

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<v Speaker 1>On one hand, I think that seeing this technology be

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<v Speaker 1>proved in such a public setting has definite, nearly increased

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<v Speaker 1>interest in it, and so you know, increased interest leads

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<v Speaker 1>to increased investment um, increased willingness um for funders to

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<v Speaker 1>back this kind of thing um, so that could push

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<v Speaker 1>timelines forward. On the other hand, you know, the pandemic

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<v Speaker 1>itself has also in some cases made it harder to

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<v Speaker 1>do clinical trials and made it more complicated to do

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<v Speaker 1>clinical trials. UM. So you know that that could have

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<v Speaker 1>a bit of the opposite effect UM in cancer. UM

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<v Speaker 1>we could see initial efficacy data from patient studies as

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<v Speaker 1>soon as the end of next year or early in

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<v Speaker 1>bion Tech has told me, so we could begin to

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<v Speaker 1>see a little bit of UM, a little bit of

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<v Speaker 1>a sense pretty soon of of whether this has a

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<v Speaker 1>broader utility. Looking ahead, what are some other potential application

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<v Speaker 1>sans for m R and A technology. So some of

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<v Speaker 1>these potential future uses I'm just gonna say, sound a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit like science fiction for now, and they these

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<v Speaker 1>are things that that maybe could work UM far into

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<v Speaker 1>the future. UM, this is not something that's going to

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<v Speaker 1>come next year or the year after next, or even

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<v Speaker 1>you know, just a few years into the future. Right.

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<v Speaker 1>But that having been said, bion Tech is doing early

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<v Speaker 1>research into whether m R and A could be used

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<v Speaker 1>to reprogram cells for regenerative medicine, and it's it's also

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<v Speaker 1>possible in the future that scientists might be able to

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<v Speaker 1>design targeted nanoparticles that can accumulate in certain types of

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<v Speaker 1>tissues such as bone marrow. Drew Wiseman, who's an immunologist,

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<v Speaker 1>at the University of Pennsylvania and who was one of

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<v Speaker 1>the early people to really to really look at this technology,

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<v Speaker 1>told us um And this might allow treatments for genetic

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<v Speaker 1>diseases such as sickle cell anemia and with maybe even

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<v Speaker 1>as a single ivy injection of a targeted therapy. Again,

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<v Speaker 1>this is these are potential uses that could be far

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<v Speaker 1>in the future, but just gives a little bit of

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<v Speaker 1>a sense of the potential of this approach if it

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<v Speaker 1>does indeed work in other disease areas. That was not

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<v Speaker 1>only Kraski and that's it for our show today. For

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<v Speaker 1>coverage of the outbreak from bureaus around the world, visit

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg dot com, slash coronavirus and if you like the show,

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<v Speaker 1>please leave us a review and a rating on Apple

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<v Speaker 1>Podcasts or Spotify. It's the best way to help more

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<v Speaker 1>listeners find our global reporting. And there's a quick note

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<v Speaker 1>for our listeners. The show will be taking a brief

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<v Speaker 1>break this Friday, December. The Prognosis Daily edition is produced

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<v Speaker 1>by to for fourhead Jordan gas Bouret, Magnus Henrickson, and

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<v Speaker 1>me Laura Carlson. Today's main story was reported by Naomi Kresky,

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<v Speaker 1>original music by Leo sidrin Our editors are Rick Shine

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<v Speaker 1>and Francesca Levi. Francesco Levi is Bloomberg's head of podcasts.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for listening.