1 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly 3 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: Frye and I'm Tracy V. 4 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 2: Wilson. 5 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: It's the last week of October. 6 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 2: Uh huh. 7 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 1: Not all of our October episodes have been as halloweeny 8 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: as they might historically have been. Yeah, I would say 9 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:31,319 Speaker 1: it's typical to have some non Halloween episodes, but it 10 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: has felt a little thinner this year. There. It's because 11 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 1: usually all of mine are very HALLOWEENI and they haven't 12 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: all been very Halloween, and I feel like I've failed. 13 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: So it's ghost Week. I'm trying to make it up 14 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: to everybody's all ghosts all the time. According to an 15 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: article that was written by Mike Wade for The Times 16 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 1: in two thousand and nine, quote in Britain, around a 17 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:56,319 Speaker 1: third of people say that they believe in ghosts, and 18 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: one in ten claims to have seen one. And that 19 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: got me thinking that the British Isles sure are full 20 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 1: of ghost stories. So all week long we're doing Ghosts 21 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 1: of the British Isles. It's our wrap up to Halloween season, 22 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: and I thought, oh, it would be a cool thing 23 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 1: to do a two parter that collects assorted ghost stories 24 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 1: of the British Isles, which I sort of did, but 25 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: I also kind of messed up because I only got 26 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,959 Speaker 1: to three of them because in doing the research, I 27 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 1: got so involved in seeking out info and trying to 28 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:33,839 Speaker 1: flesh out some things that I realized like had gotten 29 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 1: dead ended in a lot of the telling, that I 30 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: filled up two episodes with just three. So the first 31 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:47,119 Speaker 1: episode deals with two very ghosty ghost tales. They are 32 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 1: ghost stories. The first one takes about two thirds of 33 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: the episode, and then the second takes about the last third, 34 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: and then the second episode of the week will be 35 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: an examination of a seven teenth century poltergeist story, so 36 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: they can stand each on their own, but we're still 37 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: grouping them together as a two parter as our sort 38 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: of October finale. So welcome to Ghost Week. 39 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 2: First, we have the Brown Lady of Raynham Hall, and 40 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 2: that's a spirit we've talked about on the show before. 41 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 2: She was part of our Spirit Photography live show in 42 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:26,119 Speaker 2: twenty nineteen, and we'll have a little bit of crossover 43 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 2: with that. But there is more to the Brown Lady 44 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 2: haunting story than we could really include of that in 45 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 2: the context of that show on a different topic. 46 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, So first we'll talk a little bit about Raynham 47 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 1: Hall for clarity. This is the Raindom Hall in Norfolk, England, 48 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 1: not the one in New York, which has its own 49 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: historical significance. But this Raindom Hall was built in sixteen 50 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: twenty by Sir Roger Townsend on a seven thousand acre 51 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: estate and it was at the time a unique structure 52 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:00,800 Speaker 1: in comparison to most existing manor houses in England at 53 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:03,919 Speaker 1: the time because it was built in the Italian style. 54 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 1: It's this beautiful red brick building. It looks definitely different 55 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: than others that were being built around the time. 56 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 2: More than one hundred years later, the person living at 57 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:18,360 Speaker 2: Raynham Hall was Charles Townsend, second Viscount Townsend, who came 58 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 2: to be known by the nickname Turnip Townsend, and that 59 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 2: was because he was interested in agriculture. He had been 60 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 2: born at Raynham in sixteen seventy four and after a 61 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 2: career in politics, that was where he returned to work 62 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 2: on the farming projects. Turnip Townsend hired an architect named 63 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 2: William Kent to make both exterior and interior renovations to 64 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 2: the existing structure. In the seventeen thirties. One of Raynham's 65 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 2: famous features is its ornate chimney pieces, and those were 66 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 2: part of Kent's work. 67 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: But it is also with this Charles, and there are 68 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: several Charles's. I apologize. Charles Townsend is a name that 69 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 1: gets repeated throughout the family tree. But it is with 70 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: this Charles that the haunting story begins, or rather really 71 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: with his wife, Lady Dorothy Walpole. She was the sister 72 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: of Robert Walpole, considered the first British Prime Minister. So 73 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:16,039 Speaker 1: the Walpoles are hot topics this Halloween season on stuff 74 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: you missed a history class, so you'll remember we just 75 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: covered Horace. And the story here is that Dorothy haunts 76 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 1: Raynham Hall to this day, but the details regarding her 77 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,039 Speaker 1: life have kind of taken on a life of their own. 78 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 2: The classic and often repeated version of Lady Townshend's story 79 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 2: is that Charles treated her terribly, and this is in 80 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,040 Speaker 2: line with the reason that people give for Dorothy haunting 81 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 2: the estate. She's trapped there, maybe seeking some kind of 82 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 2: retribution or understanding. This version of the story is that 83 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:55,040 Speaker 2: Charles had a temper and he either learned that Dorothy 84 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 2: had been unfaithful to him, or that she'd been romantically 85 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 2: involved with someone else before they were married. A popular 86 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 2: version is that Dorothy, who was known to be a spender, 87 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 2: had angered Charles by just frittering away huge amounts of money. 88 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: She and Charles have their own additional, complicated backstory. They're 89 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 1: said to have been childhood sweethearts, but that the Wallpoles 90 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: did not agree to a match, so Charles married another woman, 91 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: that was Elizabeth Pelham, and they had a family together, 92 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 1: a big family. Some reports say they had ten kids, 93 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: while others say that it was five, and this might 94 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 1: reflect the remainder of them having died in childhood. But 95 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 1: when Elizabeth died, Charles and Dorothy were finally able to marry, 96 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: which they did in seventeen thirteen, and they too had 97 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: a lot of kids, perhaps eleven. Similarly, in Charles's obituary, 98 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: it states that he and Dorothy had four sons and 99 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: two daughters. So obviously that does not add up to eleven, 100 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: and that discrepancy numbers remains a mystery. Like the other one, 101 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: they may have lost children at a very young age, 102 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:10,160 Speaker 1: but after thirteen years of marriage in seventeen twenty six, 103 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 1: Dorothy contracted smallpox and died. 104 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 2: But rumors sprang up that she was not in fact dead, 105 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 2: and she was instead a prisoner at Raynham Hall, forbidden 106 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 2: to go out or even see her own children. These 107 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:30,160 Speaker 2: rumors persisted, and, as rumors often do, they expanded. Soon 108 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 2: there were whispers that the funeral had been staged, and 109 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:36,159 Speaker 2: that there was no body in her coffin, and that 110 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 2: Charles had put together this deception so that he could 111 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 2: keep her in the house, isolated and alone, as some 112 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 2: kind of punishment. Some versions of the story say that 113 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:49,839 Speaker 2: she was starved to death, and others say she was 114 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:53,480 Speaker 2: pushed down the stairs by Charles and broke her neck. 115 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 2: In seventeen thirty eight, Charles Townsend died somewhat suddenly, according 116 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 2: to a report in the Darby Mercury on Sunday, June 117 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 2: twenty ninth, seventeen thirty eight, on the preceding Wednesday, quote 118 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 2: after supper, his Lordship returned to his room, apparently in 119 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 2: good health. He rung his bell, and the servant going 120 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 2: immediately up the stairs, found his lord dead. His Lordship 121 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 2: had flung up the sash of the window, as though 122 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 2: he had done it for the sake of air. He 123 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 2: was in the sixty fourth year of his age. There's 124 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 2: the sighting of a ghost at Raynam that's sometimes included 125 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 2: in the story and sometimes not, which is surprising because 126 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 2: it involved royalty. This one involves King George the Fourth, 127 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 2: who was born in seventeen sixty two and visited Raynam 128 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 2: while he was a young boy. In this story, he's 129 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 2: said to have seen a pale woman in a brown dress, 130 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 2: looking disheveled, and this woman was in his room. He 131 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 2: woke everybody up, and depending on which account you read, 132 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 2: he either said he would not spend another hour in 133 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 2: the house or that he wanted to change rooms. The 134 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 2: first widely reported ghost sighting at the hall wasn't until 135 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 2: eighteen thirty five, during a party, which, as was common 136 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 2: for the day, included the invited guests sleeping over, and 137 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 2: one of those guests, a major. Loftus, described encountering a 138 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 2: female apparition while he was headed to bed in the 139 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 2: wee hours of the morning. The woman he saw was 140 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 2: wearing a brown silk dress and was standing on the 141 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 2: landing on the stairs. Loftus called out to this mystery woman, 142 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:36,200 Speaker 2: who then vanished into thin air. He decided to try 143 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 2: to corner the spirit, and once again he saw her, 144 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 2: this time more closely. Loftus described a woman with a 145 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 2: frightening countenance. Her eye sockets were empty. He drew what 146 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 2: he had seen and shared his drawing with the rest 147 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:53,679 Speaker 2: of the guests the next day at breakfast, and this 148 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 2: prompted the Charles Townsend, who was living there at the time, 149 00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 2: who was a descendant of Dorothy's husband, Charleston Townsend, to 150 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 2: admit that he and his family had also seen this specter. 151 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 2: This information is said to have scared the house staff 152 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 2: so much that all of them reportedly quit on the spot, 153 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 2: and then that led the townshend in residence to suspect 154 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 2: that someone had actually been playing a trick by creating 155 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 2: this ghost with the intent of creating havoc in his life, 156 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 2: so he actually had a team of detectives investigate. But 157 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 2: after two months of these detectives essentially living at Raynham Hall, 158 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 2: they found nothing and they closed the case. In a moment, 159 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 2: we will talk about another account of an encounter with 160 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 2: the Brown Lady, but first we will have a sponsor break. 161 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 2: After the Loftis sighting, another guest saw the spirit. Although 162 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 2: the account we have of that event is from years later, 163 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 2: even though it happened the year after Loftus saw the 164 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:04,440 Speaker 2: Brown Lady. In an eighteen ninety one account of the 165 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:07,839 Speaker 2: Raynham Hall haunting written by Florence Marriott in her book 166 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 2: There Is No Death, she describes another experience that happened 167 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 2: at Sir Charles Townsend's house. Marriott claims in the text 168 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:19,839 Speaker 2: that her father learned about the story from Townsend, who 169 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 2: at the time was his country neighbor. Charles and his wife, 170 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 2: once they took ownership of the Raynham Hall estate, had 171 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 2: launched this huge renovation and redecorating project, and they brought 172 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 2: a load of friends over to stay and party, but 173 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:39,680 Speaker 2: soon the guests started leaving one by one because of 174 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 2: all the ghost sightings. They claimed to have seen a 175 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 2: woman quote wearing a brown satin dress with yellow trim 176 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 2: and a rough around her throat. She's described as looking 177 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 2: innocent and harmless, and her portrait, according to Marriott, also 178 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 2: hung in one of the bedrooms. The initial assessment of 179 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 2: the situation was that this was a trick that was 180 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:05,319 Speaker 2: being played by poachers who would rather have the estate 181 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 2: left unoccupied so that they could hunt the grounds there themselves, 182 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 2: which they had apparently been doing before this whole renovation 183 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 2: and party happened. So to help Marriott's father, Captain Frederick Marriott, 184 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 2: who was a Navy officer and a novelist, offered to 185 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 2: stay in the room where the brown Lady's portrait hung 186 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 2: because he believed he could catch the tricksters. He slept 187 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 2: his daughter wrote quote with a loaded revolver under his pillow, 188 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 2: and after a couple of nights of seeing nothing, Frederick 189 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 2: Marriott did see a woman in the hallway, and he 190 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:43,679 Speaker 2: was not alone. The host's two adult sons were with him. 191 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 2: Captain Marriott discharged his weapon at the woman at close 192 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 2: range after she had made like this menacing face at him, 193 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 2: and she vanished. The bullet he fired lodged in a 194 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 2: panel of the room opposite where he stood, and he 195 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 2: was after that experience convinced that the apparition was real. 196 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:07,680 Speaker 2: The Townshends occupied this estate for centuries, and in eighteen 197 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 2: ninety nine, John Townsend six, Marquess Townshend, inherited it. At 198 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 2: that point, though the estate and the family were bankrupt. 199 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 2: The estate was rented out and the art collection was 200 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 2: sold off. It wasn't until nineteen twenty one that he 201 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 2: died and his widow moved in. The Marchiness Townsend, who 202 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 2: was quite wealthy, decided that she would restore the house, 203 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:34,839 Speaker 2: but she also had another project related to the house, 204 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:38,199 Speaker 2: and that was a book about all of its various hauntings. 205 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 2: This is one of those details that does not seem 206 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 2: to pop up a lot that the owner of the 207 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:48,679 Speaker 2: house published a book about its various ghosts in nineteen 208 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:52,679 Speaker 2: thirty six, But this seems pretty important. As you'll see, 209 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:56,839 Speaker 2: the Marchioness Gladys Townsend co wrote the book with another writer, 210 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 2: Maud Folks, who was a ghostwriter. Excuse the punt for 211 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 2: a lot of wealthy society women who want to depend 212 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 2: their memoirs or their family biographies. And I was not 213 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 2: able to get my hands on a copy of the 214 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 2: book in time for this episode. I presume it will 215 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 2: get here today, right after we finished the corning. It does, 216 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 2: though we know, include the story of the Brown Lady 217 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 2: Dorothy Walpole, and it seems, based on the brief excerpts 218 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:28,119 Speaker 2: that I was able to get a hold of online, 219 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 2: that this might be the source of some of the 220 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 2: speculative versions and the sort of dark, romanticized and played 221 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 2: up for dramatic effect versions of Dorothy's story. So this 222 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:46,440 Speaker 2: all sets the scene for the famous photo of the 223 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:51,079 Speaker 2: Brown Lady. Two men were assigned by Country Life magazine 224 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 2: in nineteen thirty six to visit Raynham Hall and take 225 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 2: photos of the estate. These two men were Captain Hubert 226 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:03,679 Speaker 2: privaned and In Shira, who was Provin's assistant. The official 227 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:06,319 Speaker 2: story is that when they were getting ready to take 228 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 2: a photo of the building's main staircase, Andrey Sierra saw 229 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:14,560 Speaker 2: what he described as a vapory form that slowly took 230 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 2: on the futures of a woman floating down the stairs. 231 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 2: When Shira exclaimed in shocked, Provand who was under the 232 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 2: camera's black cloth, jumped and snapped the photo and captured 233 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 2: an image of the ghost in the process. The magazine 234 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 2: published the photograph on Boxing day that year, December twenty sixth, 235 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 2: with the following as part of the introduction to the 236 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:41,359 Speaker 2: article about it quote a genuine case of spirit photograph 237 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 2: has yet to be proved. Those so far investigated either 238 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 2: proving to be fakes or impossible to authenticate owing to 239 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 2: the absence of witnesses. Yet the following account and the 240 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 2: illustration of what happened at Rayndham Hall, Norfolk, the seat 241 00:14:56,440 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 2: of the Marcus Townshend deserves attention, so the account of 242 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 2: what happened, as written by Andre Shira is included next. 243 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 2: Here's how he described how they snapped the photo quote. 244 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 2: Captain Pravaan took one photograph of it whilst I flashed 245 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 2: the light. He was focusing again for another exposure. I 246 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 2: was standing by his side, just behind the camera, with 247 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 2: the flashlight pistol in my hand, looking directly up the staircase. 248 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 2: All at once I detected an ethereal veiled form coming 249 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 2: slowly down the stairs. Rather excitedly, I called out, sharply, quick, quick, 250 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 2: there's something. Are you ready? 251 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 1: Yes? 252 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 2: The photographer replied and removed the cap from the lens. 253 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 2: I pressed the trigger of the flashlight pistol after the flash, 254 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 2: and on closing the shutter, Captain Privan removed the focusing 255 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 2: cloth from his head and, turning to me, said, what's 256 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 2: all the excitement about. I directed his attention to the 257 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 2: staircase and explained that I had distinctly seen a figure there, 258 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 2: transparent so that the step were visible through the ethereal form. 259 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 2: But nevertheless very definite and to me perfectly real. He 260 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 2: laughed and said, I must have imagined I had seen 261 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 2: a ghost, for there was nothing now to be seen. 262 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 2: It may be of interest to record that the flash 263 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 2: from the Sasha bulb, which in this instance was used, 264 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 2: is equivalent, I understand, to a speed of one fiftieth 265 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 2: part of a second. Shira's account goes on to mention 266 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 2: that Privan didn't believe in spirits and actually bet Indra 267 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 2: five pounds that there was nothing on the image, But 268 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 2: of course when they developed it there it was pravand, 269 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 2: according to Shira, allegedly never paid up. Shira noted, quote, 270 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 2: I have neither his technical skills nor long years of 271 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 2: practical experience as a portraitist. Neither am I interested in 272 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 2: psychic phenomena. But I maintained that the form of a 273 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 2: very refined influence was so real to my eyes that 274 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 2: it must have been caught at that psychic logical moment 275 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 2: by the lens of the camera. Paranormal investigator Harry Price 276 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 2: wrote the next segment of the piece in Country Life, 277 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 2: Price explains, quote, it must be admitted that had the 278 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:16,959 Speaker 2: photographer first taken the stairs and without moving the camera 279 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,359 Speaker 2: introduced a draped figure into the picture. By the double 280 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 2: exposure method, an identical spirit picture would have been obtained. 281 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 2: I asked to see the negative, and much more important. 282 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 2: Mister Andre Shira and his operator, Captain Privan we duly 283 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 2: met at their studio and I was invited to cross 284 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:39,399 Speaker 2: examine the photographers. I will say at once that I 285 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 2: was impressed. I was told a perfectly simple story. Mister 286 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 2: Andrey Shira saw the apparition descending the stairs at the 287 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 2: precise moment when Captain Provan's head was under the black cloth, 288 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 2: a shout and the cap was off and the flashbulb fired, 289 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 2: with the result which we now see. I could not 290 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 2: shake their story, and I had no right to disbelieve them. 291 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 2: Only collusion between the two men would account for the ghost. 292 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 2: If it is a fake, the negative is entirely innocent 293 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 2: of any faking. 294 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:17,919 Speaker 1: So this famous paranormal investigator could not find evidence of 295 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 1: trickery or foul play on Provan's and Shearer's parts. But 296 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 1: though that was good enough for a lot of people, 297 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 1: the Society for Psychical Research was not convinced. In nineteen 298 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 1: thirty seven that organization did its own investigation and it 299 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 1: came to the conclusion that the alleged apparition in the 300 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 1: photo was there because the camera was shaken or shifted 301 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:41,159 Speaker 1: during its exposure. 302 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,639 Speaker 2: This photo has continued to garner interest in the nearly 303 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:49,439 Speaker 2: ninety years since it was published. There are still people 304 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 2: who believe it is real, as well as skeptics who 305 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 2: have picked it apart. To some it looks as though 306 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,440 Speaker 2: there was an awkward shift in the way the lines 307 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 2: of the staircase appear in the photo, or that there's 308 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 2: a double exposure, with some elements of the wall decors 309 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 2: repeating just below their actual positions, But a clean image 310 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 2: of the staircase shows that there is a sort of 311 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 2: demi landing halfway down, It isn't one continuous line from 312 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 2: top to bottom, and there's a panel with trim that 313 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,920 Speaker 2: could easily be mistaken for a picture frame. There are 314 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:25,880 Speaker 2: some examinations of the height of the figure. She does 315 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,199 Speaker 2: look unusually short, and a number of people have noticed 316 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 2: that the shape looks more like a statue of the 317 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:35,159 Speaker 2: Virgin Mary than an early eighteenth century woman in a 318 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 2: silk nightgown. 319 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 1: But perhaps the most informative part of all this story 320 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:44,439 Speaker 1: is the timing. It does seem oddly coincidental that a 321 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 1: photo of the Brown Lady would be snapped right after 322 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 1: a book featuring her was released by the owner of 323 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 1: the property. One item of note is that the Country 324 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 1: Living right up never references the Brown Lady at all. 325 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: It talks about the possible ghost in more general terms, 326 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: and this is sometimes held up as some sort of 327 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,199 Speaker 1: proof that the photo must be genuine and that no 328 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: one involved knew about the story of Dorothy Walpole Townsend. 329 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 1: But that would just mean that the magazine that just 330 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: published an entire spread on Martianists, Gladys Townsend and her 331 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 1: home hadn't done a very thorough job of researching her life. 332 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: As to the rumors of why Dorothy Walpole might be 333 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:31,679 Speaker 1: haunting Randham Hall, they also have problems the story that 334 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: Dorothy was held captive and that her funeral was all 335 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:39,440 Speaker 1: theatrics those just don't actually hold up. In a statement 336 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:42,159 Speaker 1: to the BBC in two thousand and nine, the estate 337 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,479 Speaker 1: said quote people said that Dorothy was locked away and 338 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 1: badly treated, but in the nineteen sixties we uncovered paperwork 339 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:53,159 Speaker 1: and medical reports suggesting she had a happy life and 340 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 1: was much loved. She does seem to have gotten treatment 341 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: for her smallpox, even though that did not save her, 342 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: not actually effective treatment for small boss. Ye she was living, 343 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 1: and if she was haunting the house, at some point 344 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:12,679 Speaker 1: she seems to have stopped. No one has claimed to 345 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 1: see her since that famous photograph was taken. Oh, Dorothy, 346 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 1: We will get to another ghost in just a moment, 347 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:23,160 Speaker 1: but first we're gonna hear from the sponsors that keep 348 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 1: stuff you missed in history class. Going in sixteen twenty five, 349 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:39,200 Speaker 1: on the northeastern coast of what's now Northern Ireland that's 350 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:42,879 Speaker 1: known as the Antrim Coast, John Shaw of Greencock built 351 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:47,280 Speaker 1: a French chateau style castle. Shaw did not own the land. 352 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: He was at the time renting it from the Earl 353 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 1: of Antrim, Randall McSorley MacDonell, at a rate of twenty 354 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: four pounds per year. This area, incidentally, might look quite 355 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:00,399 Speaker 1: familiar to listeners if they watched Game of Thrones, because 356 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,879 Speaker 1: some exterior scenes were shot nearby. That whole coast is 357 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: home to a lot of shooting locations. 358 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:10,400 Speaker 2: The castle, as originally built, had a stream that ran 359 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 2: through its outer hall and a tower at each of 360 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 2: its four corners with a conical roof. The walls of 361 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 2: this castle are also very thick, more than a meter 362 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 2: and a half, and this was definitely a place built 363 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 2: for defense protection and thanks to that water source survival. 364 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 2: And that's because at the time that it was constructed, 365 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:32,639 Speaker 2: there was a lot of conflict happening in this area, 366 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,920 Speaker 2: and that conflict had been going on since sixteen oh nine. 367 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 2: That was when King James the First decided that residents 368 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:44,679 Speaker 2: of England and Scotland, and Protestants specifically should move to 369 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 2: the northern region of Ireland, which was at the time Catholic. 370 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:52,119 Speaker 2: Prior to this, that region was not exactly friendly for 371 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,160 Speaker 2: the king, So really this conflict goes back much farther 372 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 2: than sixteen oh nine, and he basically wanted to make 373 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 2: sure that all of the areas of his kingdom were 374 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:05,239 Speaker 2: populated with people sympathetic and loyal to the crown in 375 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:10,199 Speaker 2: order to theoretically prevent any uprisings. And this effort to 376 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 2: relocate Protestants is called the plantation of Ulster. The Protestants 377 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:18,439 Speaker 2: who made this move were called planters. But this was not, 378 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:23,119 Speaker 2: of course, as benign as just suggesting people move and 379 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,640 Speaker 2: then they did it. Even if it had been that benign, 380 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 2: there were political reasons to suggest that people do such 381 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 2: a thing. There was the financial component to the plan 382 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 2: that also caused a lot of strife. To pay for 383 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,200 Speaker 2: moving a bunch of people, King James leaned on the 384 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:44,440 Speaker 2: wealthy companies and landowners of London. He made a deal 385 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 2: with them that if they financed people moving, they could 386 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 2: have large tracts of land in Ireland. But that land, 387 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,680 Speaker 2: of course, already had people living on it. So the 388 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 2: king was seizing the land in an area known as 389 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,640 Speaker 2: Ulster to make this whole colonization thing work. And all 390 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:06,160 Speaker 2: of this tension was ongoing. So when John Shaw built 391 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 2: his castle, those thick walls were considered imperative. Shaw was 392 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:12,880 Speaker 2: one of the people who moved to Ireland as part 393 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 2: of the plantation. He had gotten there in sixteen thirteen. 394 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,359 Speaker 1: And in sixteen forty one there was an attack on 395 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 1: the castle by the Gaelic Irish, who wanted to force 396 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,879 Speaker 1: out the Scots that were living there. This attack was 397 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 1: ultimately unsuccessful. Thirty nine years later, the castle was captured 398 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: in sixteen eighty by Irish chieftains, but their occupation was brief. 399 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 1: They were wanted men and they were being aggressively pursued, 400 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,880 Speaker 1: and rather than stay and risk attack, they scattered into 401 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:45,439 Speaker 1: the surrounding woods. 402 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 2: But the political upheaval and battles are not the source 403 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,480 Speaker 2: of the bally Galley ghost story. It's Shaw's immediate family. 404 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 2: Like most ghostlore, this one has several versions. The first 405 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 2: is that shortly after finishing the castle, or even while 406 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:05,399 Speaker 2: it was being completed, James Shaw married a woman named 407 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:09,880 Speaker 2: Isabella Brisbane. Her first name gets spelled in a variety 408 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:14,160 Speaker 2: of ways depending on the source. Sometimes Isabella is also 409 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:19,440 Speaker 2: described as very young, maybe just sixteen when the couple married. Yeah, 410 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 2: there are also versions that say that she came over 411 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 2: with him, but there's such a gap that then she 412 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,360 Speaker 2: would have been much older by the time she got 413 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 2: married and had kids, and so uh, it just doesn't 414 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,159 Speaker 2: add up. This is one of those cases where you 415 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,360 Speaker 2: can tell that a lot of the lore has shifted 416 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:44,120 Speaker 2: and embellished. James's goal was to have kids. He wanted 417 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 2: an air, and several years into their marriage, Isabella gave 418 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 2: birth to a child, but it was not the hoped 419 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,159 Speaker 2: for son, and according to Lord James, flew into a 420 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 2: rage over it. He locked Isabella in a tower of 421 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 2: the castle after taking her baby away possibly killed the child. 422 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,160 Speaker 2: Lady Shaw was soon found dead on the ground outside 423 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,679 Speaker 2: of the tower. So in this version, the story is 424 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 2: that she climbed out the window and jumped, hoping she 425 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,479 Speaker 2: would survive the fall and be able to get to 426 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:18,360 Speaker 2: her baby. Other versions suggest that she was killed by 427 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:23,360 Speaker 2: James or one of his allies. Another version of the story, 428 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 2: told by Jeff Bellinger in his two thousand and nine 429 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:30,920 Speaker 2: book World's Most Haunted Places, is that James discovered Lady 430 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 2: Shaw had a paramour, that there was some doubt about 431 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,639 Speaker 2: who the father of the newborn was. And then, and 432 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 2: yet another somewhat sanitized version that's shared by the current 433 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 2: owner of the castle, this baby was a boy, and 434 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 2: James took it and locked Isabelle up and because he 435 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 2: just had no more use for her once his air 436 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 2: had been produced. 437 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is one of those things that Jeff Bellinger 438 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 1: in particular, is like a lot of these versions of 439 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 1: the story don't make sense, because even if she had 440 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: had a daughter, there's no reason they couldn't have tried 441 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 1: again for an heir for a male child. And even 442 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,160 Speaker 1: if he had a male child, wouldn't he want more 443 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 1: male children so that they could ensure the bloodline, so 444 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: it doesn't always really add up. But the castle, known 445 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,200 Speaker 1: as bally Galley, passed down through the family and then 446 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 1: it was privately sold and shifted through a number of 447 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:31,040 Speaker 1: hands over the centuries. It left the ownership of the 448 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 1: Shaw family in seventeen ninety nine when it was sold 449 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 1: for fifteen thoy four hundred pounds, and then in the 450 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 1: eighteen thirties the castle was used by the Coast Guard 451 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,239 Speaker 1: for a while as a rental property. They used it 452 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 1: as a base of operations from which anti smuggling efforts 453 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:51,160 Speaker 1: were initiated. The castle was purchased in the nineteen fifties 454 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,199 Speaker 1: by Cyril Lord, who had made his fortune in the 455 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 1: carpet business. He was known as the Carpet King. Lord 456 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,880 Speaker 1: turned the castle into an in called the Candlelight Inn. 457 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty six, the castle was purchased and updated 458 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 1: by Sir Billy Hastings. It has been expanded. The old 459 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: castle section remains and there's also a newer section of it. 460 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:17,399 Speaker 1: Many elements of the original castle remain, including the original door. 461 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,200 Speaker 1: There's an inscription over the door that reads sixteen twenty 462 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,879 Speaker 1: five God's providence is my inheritance that inscription is not 463 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: from sixteen twenty five, though it was put there in 464 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,679 Speaker 1: seventeen sixty during renovations. There's also a coat of arms 465 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:37,400 Speaker 1: and the initials JS and IB for James and Isabella. 466 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 1: The castle remains a hotel in the Hastings Hotels collection. 467 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 1: Throughout the years, there have been stories of multiple ghosts 468 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: in the castle, and the hotel really leads into that lore. 469 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 1: For one, Lady Isabella's tower room is maintained as her room. 470 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 1: It's called the Ghost Room, and for a while you 471 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 1: could rent that room, although the hotel has stopped letting 472 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 1: guests stay there. The room has what is purported to 473 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 1: be Lady Shaw's original bed, and while guests can't sleep there, 474 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 1: they are encouraged to visit. There is actually very clear 475 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: signage that leads visitors up the stairs into the ghost Room. 476 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 1: Lady Shaw's story is on display on plaques, and many 477 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 1: guests specifically request rooms in the Old Castle section, hoping 478 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 1: that they might have an encounter with her, and there 479 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 1: have been all of the classic reports of haunting, so 480 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 1: hot and cold spots, sumping noises, knocks at the door 481 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 1: when there's no one in the corridor, et cetera. 482 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 2: There are reportedly other ghosts there, though one of the 483 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 2: ghosts is Madam Nixon. She was Shaw's sister in law 484 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 2: and moved to bally Galli after she was widowed. People 485 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 2: have described hearing what sounds like silk rustling in the 486 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 2: hallways of the Castle section, and that noise is attributed 487 00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 2: to Madam Nixon. 488 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 1: Have also stated that guests have heard the laughter of 489 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 1: a child when there was no child present, as well 490 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 1: as sensations of having someone touch them when there is 491 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,440 Speaker 1: no one in the room with them. There are stories 492 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: of banquet tables that are set for an evening being 493 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: disheveled before the guests have even arrived, and also a 494 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,040 Speaker 1: story of nuns having their bibles fly off their dressers. 495 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 1: In two thousand and three, BBC presenter Kim Lenahan and 496 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 1: her crew spent the night in bally Galley for a 497 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 1: story leading up to Halloween, or at least they attempted 498 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,760 Speaker 1: to a medium that the BBC had brought in reportedly 499 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 1: contacted the spirit of a distressed woman, and as they conversed, 500 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 1: Lenihan reported that the temperature in the room rose rapidly, 501 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 1: accompanied by a musty vanilla smell. After the medium left 502 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,160 Speaker 1: and Lenihan tried to get some rest, she reported the 503 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,920 Speaker 1: smell coming back in the middle of the night, saying, quote, 504 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 1: it was a smell that almost covered you like a sheet. 505 00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 1: Kim asked to be moved to the newer section of 506 00:30:59,600 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 1: the hotel. 507 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 2: Many many people have had experiences that they describe as 508 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 2: supernatural at bally Galley. But the good news is none 509 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 2: of those have been violent, so if there are spirits there, 510 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 2: they don't seem to want to hurt anyone. 511 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 1: That is where we are going to end part one 512 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 1: of this two parter on ghosts of the British Isles. 513 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 1: As we said, we have another one coming up on 514 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 1: Wednesday that is essentially a standalone so they are options options. 515 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 1: And in the meantime, I have listener mail about another 516 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 1: scary thing from this year, which was carlosh as Waldo, 517 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 1: who is scarier than many other things. This is from 518 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 1: our listener Ann who writes, Hi, Holly and Tracy. Being 519 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,400 Speaker 1: a music teacher, I knew somewhat of what I was 520 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 1: in for when I saw Carlojuswaldo's name in my podcast list. 521 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 1: My first experience with him, however, was in high school. 522 00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 1: My high school choir did a European tour, and when 523 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 1: we had the opportunity to go to a performance at 524 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 1: the Vienna State Opera House, I went. We had standing 525 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 1: room tickets for a modern opera called Jezwaldo, all in German, 526 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 1: so I had no clue what they were singing, and 527 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 1: the music was really weird to my teenaged ears. The 528 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:18,800 Speaker 1: only thing I remember is the ending, where there is 529 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 1: a murder and then all these dolls are swinging back 530 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,320 Speaker 1: and forth on giant swings on the stage with lots 531 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 1: of red ribbons representing blood. Lo and behold. Two years later, 532 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 1: I am sitting in music history one as a college 533 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 1: freshman music major, and the composer Carlo Joswaldo comes up, 534 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:38,320 Speaker 1: and the professor told us a little about him. Finally 535 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 1: the opera kind of made a little bit of sense, 536 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 1: sort of. Anyway, I enjoyed being reminded of the weirdness 537 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 1: and learning a little more in depth than we were 538 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 1: able to in a college class. Attached for your viewing 539 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: pleasure is my most recent pick of my two cats, 540 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 1: and I think it captures them perfectly. Aaron Purr is 541 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,480 Speaker 1: the goofy orange tabby and white laying on his back 542 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:01,400 Speaker 1: in the crack between the top of the futon and 543 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 1: the wall, and Merlin is the flufy boy on the 544 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,640 Speaker 1: windowsill with the look of utter disdain on his face. 545 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,120 Speaker 1: This is the scene that greeted me when I walked 546 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,480 Speaker 1: in the door after work the other day. Thanks for 547 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 1: all you do stuffuest in History Class is one of 548 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,760 Speaker 1: my favorite podcasts, and probably one I've listened to the longest, 549 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 1: at least fourteen or fifteen years. I got my PhD 550 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 1: back when there were nearly so many back episodes to 551 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 1: catch up on. Thanks again, and and I love this. 552 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 1: Your babies look so cute. Also, just the fact that 553 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:31,480 Speaker 1: one you have a cat named Aaron Purr, which is brilliant, 554 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 1: and that you describe him as a goofy orange tabby 555 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 1: and white. I feel like you don't have to use 556 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 1: the adjective goofy. Orange cats kind of come with that 557 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 1: as part of the package most of the time. 558 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems almost standard behavior. 559 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: If one of our listeners has a very stoic and 560 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 1: intellectual orange tabby, please write. 561 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 2: Him, because yeah, I was saying, we just need the 562 00:33:56,240 --> 00:34:01,840 Speaker 2: data collection an oddly smart orange tabby. 563 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,720 Speaker 1: I think they exist. I believe I believe. It just 564 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,680 Speaker 1: seems that the majority are like Noop Boop boop to 565 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 1: in the best way. I love them. I have never 566 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 1: had one personally, and it's on my wish list. So 567 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:18,240 Speaker 1: if you would like to write to us and share 568 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,319 Speaker 1: your stories about your encounters with weird opera, or your 569 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 1: kiddies or anything else, you can do so at History 570 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:28,239 Speaker 1: Podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. You can also subscribe to 571 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,160 Speaker 1: the show if you like. It is easiest pie to 572 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:32,880 Speaker 1: do on the iHeartRadio app or anywhere you listen to 573 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 1: your favorite shows. 574 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,240 Speaker 2: Stuff you Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. 575 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:47,160 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 576 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.