Speaker 1: Hey, the folks, it is Monday, August tenth, and it's
Speaker 1: almost hard to believe thirty years after his death, someone
Speaker 1: for the first time is being tried in the murder
Speaker 1: of two Pac Shakur And with that, welcome to this
Speaker 1: episode of Baby and TJ. It's my sophomore year of
Speaker 1: college when he was killed. Never forget that and when
Speaker 1: that all went down. I remember where I was on
Speaker 1: campus when I got the news. Actually, you've been there.
Speaker 1: I was just riding in the car past Reynolds Razorback Stadium.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: I didn't even think I was going to say that
Speaker 1: until this moment, but it was such a moment. He
Speaker 1: was such a star rogues. Nobody has been tried in
Speaker 1: his murder.
Speaker 3: Which is crazy.
Speaker 2: That was thirty years ago, nineteen ninety six. You remember
Speaker 2: where you were when you heard the news. Do you
Speaker 2: remember how you felt.
Speaker 1: I think it was shocked. At the time. He was
Speaker 1: such a huge star and such an influence and everything
Speaker 1: I was doing day in day out with music. He
Speaker 1: was everything him and Biggie with everything rap wise. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I think shock at the time. He was twenty five,
Speaker 1: I was We were talking about it this morning, like wow,
Speaker 1: I realized he was so young.
Speaker 3: He what were you twenty twenty one? So I mean
Speaker 3: I was.
Speaker 2: Nineteen years old, you were nineteen, Like that's in your age.
Speaker 2: He's someone who just was a little bit older than
Speaker 2: you enough that you could be looking up to him.
Speaker 2: And was it ever a source of frustration over these
Speaker 2: years that no one was ever held accountable? You know?
Speaker 1: And I remember what jumps to mine now is there's
Speaker 1: a joke that Chris Rock tells about how police don't
Speaker 1: really care when it's a rap killing or it's black
Speaker 1: on black. He said, when a black eye kills another
Speaker 1: black it's a black victim, all police have to do
Speaker 1: is just put a demo tape in his pocket and
Speaker 1: just say, oh, it's a rap killing, let's get out
Speaker 1: of here. Really, they joke about it to us a way,
Speaker 1: but I think we've become Look it's been thirty years.
Speaker 1: You get to a point. How he got shot ropes.
Speaker 1: I don't know how you can get more witnesses to
Speaker 1: a shooting, then the Vegas Strip after a Mike Tyson
Speaker 1: fightd in Tyson's heyday, I don't know how you get more.
Speaker 1: So all these things come together to you, like, what
Speaker 1: the what the hell, and you get resigned to the
Speaker 1: fact we're never gonna know for you.
Speaker 3: Sure, I was just gonna ask you.
Speaker 2: My next question was, did you ever think that this
Speaker 2: day would come?
Speaker 3: And the only reason why.
Speaker 2: This day has come not because of detective work, not
Speaker 2: because of a police officer, that one detective who wasn't
Speaker 2: gonna let this go and reopened a cold case and
Speaker 2: followed the evidence. No, it had nothing to do with that.
Speaker 2: We're here today because the dude wrote that he did it.
Speaker 2: He went on podcasts talking about how.
Speaker 3: He was involved.
Speaker 2: Literally the evidence and the reason why we're here today
Speaker 2: is because Dwayne Keith Davis said it was so his words,
Speaker 2: his own words are literally.
Speaker 3: The evidence in this case.
Speaker 1: That's telling and Robes it is the strongest evidence they're
Speaker 1: probably going to have in this case. But it is yes, Wow,
Speaker 1: wild Robes to think that thirty years later, and here's
Speaker 1: the kicker, folks. He's not the trigger man. He's not
Speaker 1: accused of being the trigger man. There's no suggestion of
Speaker 1: him being the trigger man. Instead, this is the guy who,
Speaker 1: as he tells the story and its prosecutors say, now
Speaker 1: he is the one who provided the gun and orchestrated
Speaker 1: the whole thing, that.
Speaker 3: The mastermind who provided the weapon.
Speaker 2: Essentially, I believe the charge specifically is murder with a
Speaker 2: deadly weapon with the intent to promote, further or assist
Speaker 2: a criminal gang. So he is being charged with murder
Speaker 2: in the first degree, and that we've seen this happen
Speaker 2: in other cases. Certainly, you don't have to be the
Speaker 2: person who pulls the trigger, and in fact, oftentimes the
Speaker 2: person who orchestrates it masterminds it. Think about a murder
Speaker 2: for higher plot, the folks who are in charge of
Speaker 2: the plan tend to get the biggest punishment rather than
Speaker 2: even the gunman himself. But everyone else who was in
Speaker 2: that car who could have pulled the trigger isn't even
Speaker 2: here to talk about it.
Speaker 1: Yes, but the guy we are talking about is Dwayne
Speaker 1: Keith Davis. He's sixty three years old now, but he
Speaker 1: is a former gang affiliated guy who was running in
Speaker 1: some circles I guess back in the day we'll get into.
Speaker 1: But his trial is starting today jury selection. I guess
Speaker 1: I've seen different ranges rogues how long this is supposed
Speaker 1: to go this week. Summer's saying a few days, and
Speaker 1: some say all week.
Speaker 2: Not with the jury selections. I mean, look, this is
Speaker 2: going to be I don't know. Maybe you get folks
Speaker 2: young enough, they're not they don't have a memory of
Speaker 2: when it happened, how it happened. I'm curious what the
Speaker 2: strategy will be between the prosecutors and the defense team based.
Speaker 3: On what type of jurory you would want seated.
Speaker 2: People who were around at the time, people who weren't
Speaker 2: around at the time have no clue. But this is
Speaker 2: I know that the trial itself is expected to last
Speaker 2: a full month, but jury selection, who knows, it's a
Speaker 2: couple of days. It depends on just what their school
Speaker 2: of jurors would be like. In Vegas, it seems like
Speaker 2: a transient community. Maybe I'm wrong, but it doesn't feel like, Yes,
Speaker 2: you might have some lifers in there, people who've lived
Speaker 2: and grew up in Vegas, but it just seems like
Speaker 2: a place people.
Speaker 3: Arrive at they don't actually come from.
Speaker 2: So I'm curious, you know, I don't know, Like, I'm
Speaker 2: not sure what you wouldn't even need a change of
Speaker 2: venue because I feel like people are always coming and
Speaker 2: going from there.
Speaker 1: And this is going to be another expected to be
Speaker 1: a high profile Ropes. They have lottery for the seats
Speaker 1: in there again, so a lot of people are going
Speaker 1: to be trying to get in there and see. What
Speaker 1: is a trial that you know, Like you were just saying, Robes,
Speaker 1: I never thought we'd see, and a lot of folks
Speaker 1: never did. Someone is being tried for the murder of
Speaker 1: Tupac's records. This guy, though, wrote a book, a memoir,
Speaker 1: Robe that came out in twenty nineteen that kind of
Speaker 1: reopened this case. We don't want to take anything away
Speaker 1: from police. Obviously they had to do plenty of detective work,
Speaker 1: but this was the impetus for them taking another look. Robes.
Speaker 2: That's right the title the book, Compton Street Legend twenty
Speaker 2: nineteen Memoir. Do you think when he was writing this
Speaker 2: that he had any thought that this could implicate himself?
Speaker 2: I mean, look, when OJ Simpson wrote if I did it,
Speaker 2: he could at least still stand on the fact that
Speaker 2: he wrote if I did it.
Speaker 3: There's no if.
Speaker 2: In this he goes in detail and describes what he
Speaker 2: says happened that night. And how would he not think
Speaker 2: by writing this he wouldn't be held accountable for what
Speaker 2: he is detailing.
Speaker 3: What happened that night. How did he think that this
Speaker 3: wasn't going to implicate him.
Speaker 1: Maybe he didn't get good advice. Maybe he thought this
Speaker 1: was just a tall tale nobody was really going to
Speaker 1: listen to. Maybe he didn't think they were paying attention.
Speaker 1: Maybe he still thought there's no evidence. So I'm fine,
Speaker 1: I do not know. But Ropes, if you got away
Speaker 1: with a crime for damn near thirty years, the last
Speaker 1: thing you do is to say, hey, look at me,
Speaker 1: I got away with it for thirty years. Go sit down.
Speaker 1: This is crazy, and it's there was some debate about
Speaker 1: whether or not that would be allowed in and his
Speaker 1: some of his words and every Yep, it's all in there.
Speaker 2: All admissible, including some of the podcasts he did. I
Speaker 2: mean this was the book, yes, But then he was
Speaker 2: promoting the book, so he's talking about what he wrote.
Speaker 2: So not only do you have his written word, you
Speaker 2: actually have his verbal word as well. And he claims that, yeah,
Speaker 2: he provided the gun, that he threw it in the
Speaker 2: back seat. That's fairly damning given the charges he's facing.
Speaker 1: And reminder, you go back or this was September seventh,
Speaker 1: ninety six, Tupac. A lot of people, this is a
Speaker 1: very famous picture is the last photo of Tupac that
Speaker 1: was taken. But you see him sitting in the passenger
Speaker 1: seat of a black BMW. You see big Sug Night
Speaker 1: over in the driver's seat looking straight ahead, and Tupac
Speaker 1: is actually looking at the camera. It's a hell of
Speaker 1: a shot.
Speaker 3: It really even look.
Speaker 2: And you know, I'm not I was never a big
Speaker 2: rap listener, wasn't really into any of this, but I
Speaker 2: knew that photo.
Speaker 3: That photo is iconic.
Speaker 1: So it's in that the moments that followed that, apparently
Speaker 1: they stopped in an intersection, a white Cadillac pulled up,
Speaker 1: gunfire erupts. Tupac is shot four times, but it was
Speaker 1: some six days later that he actually died at the hospital. Now,
Speaker 1: this was the motive in all that role their surveillance
Speaker 1: video out there. Tupac was involved in a scuffle. The
Speaker 1: group he was with entourage had ganged up on beat
Speaker 1: up a guy who was with a rival gang. We
Speaker 1: see that, and that apparently set them off. Retaliation must
Speaker 1: happen and a plan was put in place, and the
Speaker 1: guy behind that plan is the guy going on trial today.
Speaker 2: Wow, and look that is the motive. And we mentioned
Speaker 2: earlier at least I touched on this. The folks who
Speaker 2: were in that Cadillac where the fires came, the firing
Speaker 2: or the weapon I guess was fired from. Everyone who
Speaker 2: was in that car is dead except for Davis, the defendant.
Speaker 2: So Orlando Anderson, that was the nephew. What was his uh,
Speaker 2: he had a nickname. I actually loved all of their nicknames.
Speaker 2: I did appreciate that. But he was the one who
Speaker 2: they were basically defending his honor, correct, and it is believed.
Speaker 2: I think most people speculated or have speculated that he
Speaker 2: is the one who may have actually pulled the trigger.
Speaker 2: But he died a few years years later in another
Speaker 2: shootout in Compton, correct, So he's not there to talk
Speaker 2: about it. His name was Baby Lane Orlando Baby Lane Anderson.
Speaker 2: That was his nephew. The other folks in the car
Speaker 2: DeAndre Smith. His name was DeAndre Freaky Smith. He died
Speaker 2: of natural causes I believe complications due to diabetes. And
Speaker 2: then Terry bubble Up Brown with in the car as well.
Speaker 2: He died as well in a shootout. So no one
Speaker 2: in that car where the shots came from is alive
Speaker 2: today except for the guy on trial.
Speaker 1: So kind of the only person left that you could
Speaker 1: could actually be tried decided to write a book like.
Speaker 3: In the he has no one to worry about it.
Speaker 2: If he was afraid of ever being called out as
Speaker 2: the mastermind, if he was afraid of ever facing the
Speaker 2: consequences for what happened that night. Anyone who could have
Speaker 2: actually told on him in a real way, who was
Speaker 2: in that car, they're dead. So the only person who
Speaker 2: could convict him is himself. And that is exactly what
Speaker 2: is appearing to being, that is appearing to have occurred,
Speaker 2: or is occurring right now.
Speaker 1: Now. He has claimed this was all kind of just fantasy.
Speaker 1: It was all kind of made up. It was just fiction.
Speaker 3: It was an fiction, this posture, okay.
Speaker 1: Trying to sound like a big man as possible. They
Speaker 1: don't have evidence of it.
Speaker 2: What he say he's going to say that he falsified
Speaker 2: his memoir, Yes, just to make it all sound good
Speaker 2: for the publisher.
Speaker 3: Which version were we supposed to believe?
Speaker 2: Because if you're saying you were lying or embellishing in
Speaker 2: your book already now you're not lying or embellishing to
Speaker 2: protect yourself.
Speaker 1: Already sold all the copies I'm going to sell.
Speaker 2: So I wonder how much that payout was and if
Speaker 2: it was worth it. Now that he's been sitting in
Speaker 2: prison for a couple of years awaiting trial.
Speaker 1: Do you remember you weren't much of a rap listener
Speaker 1: then nineties, but that was the heyday, right those Snoop
Speaker 1: DOGG came along, Tupac and Big all that stuff was
Speaker 1: going on. Do you remember any semblance of an East
Speaker 1: Coast West Coast rap rollery as.
Speaker 2: Okay, yes, yes, East Coast, West Coast, Yes I do.
Speaker 2: I wasn't again at all. We've documented how little I
Speaker 2: listened to rap in the nineties.
Speaker 3: But I was aware of that.
Speaker 1: Yes, Okay, I'm scared. No, I'm not going to ask
Speaker 1: your follow up, but please to that point, robe something
Speaker 1: that this thing that happened, everybody knows the Kendrick and
Speaker 1: Drake beef. Okay, the most famous one prior to that
Speaker 1: would have been the East Coast West Coast rap rivalry.
Speaker 1: They were dis tracks flying back and forth, some of
Speaker 1: them more famous than others. But because these guys on
Speaker 1: the East Coast and West Coast romes were actually affiliated
Speaker 1: with real street gang members, when a fence was taken
Speaker 1: through words that was the same as a fence being
Speaker 1: taken on the street and it got deadly. It absolutely did.
Speaker 1: This is all in that Sean Diddy Colmes was right
Speaker 1: in the middle of all this building up this East
Speaker 1: coast versus Tupac's West coast, and people were dying, babe
Speaker 1: over a thing we saw with Kendrick, and imagine that
Speaker 1: getting deadly.
Speaker 2: So I have Actually it's so funny. Just know I've
Speaker 2: heard before we even knew this trial was happening, You've
Speaker 2: talked a lot about that. And when we and you were,
Speaker 2: obviously as so many people were into this Drake versus Kendrick,
Speaker 2: I kept thinking, like, thank god, it's just about music,
Speaker 2: It's just about downloads.
Speaker 3: It's just it has you know.
Speaker 2: It's not about bullets. And I did think about that,
Speaker 2: how far we've come. I mean, what is it we're
Speaker 2: lessons learned in the nineties that how does why doesn't
Speaker 2: it bubble over now like it did then? Because we're
Speaker 2: not talking about street gangs affiliated with record labels.
Speaker 1: You don't have, yes, this same level of gang activity
Speaker 1: in the US that you had back then, I mean eighties,
Speaker 1: nineties talking heyday time, the mom so you don't have
Speaker 1: any of that. But no, the image and they were
Speaker 1: trying to get a lot of that out of wrap.
Speaker 1: They even had like a summit, like a piece summit
Speaker 1: between the East and West. After these guys, Tupac and
Speaker 1: Biggie got shot within six killed within six months. Wow,
Speaker 1: twenty five and twenty four. So that's okay, we can't
Speaker 1: have that. So yes, beefs bubble up. But that was
Speaker 1: just this was a part of what was really a
Speaker 1: dark and a sad time for music when two of
Speaker 1: the biggest stars who took hip hop worldwide and a
Speaker 1: major way are dead before they even get going.
Speaker 2: What's crazy is though, now you've got Sug Knight who
Speaker 2: was in the car and Diddy who was a part
Speaker 2: of all of it, and they're in prison for unrelated incidents.
Speaker 2: But still it's you know, you think about just the
Speaker 2: aftermath of all of that now present day, and now
Speaker 2: you've got Davis on trial and been in prison for
Speaker 2: the last couple of days years.
Speaker 3: I mean, when you think about it, it's.
Speaker 1: Discots from that era crazy. And you mentioned Sug and
Speaker 1: you mentioned Diddy. Stay here, how do those two play
Speaker 1: into this trial? And yeah, could Sean Diddy Holmes be
Speaker 1: transferred from one prison to a court room to testify.
Speaker 2: Welcome back everyone to Amy and TJ. And we are
Speaker 2: talking about a trial that begins today on Monday, a
Speaker 2: trial that has been thirty years in the making. We
Speaker 2: are going to possibly see justice from nineteen ninety six
Speaker 2: taking place. At least you're going to see someone finally
Speaker 2: being held accountable for the death of Tupac Shakur. And
Speaker 2: it's not the man who necessarily pulled the trigger.
Speaker 1: I think crazy after all this somebody's on Tromper's murder. No,
Speaker 1: not the guy who actually shot him. No, that's not
Speaker 1: the case. This is a guy who's accused of providing
Speaker 1: the gun. This is the same guy here we're talking
Speaker 1: about Davis Dwayne Keith Davis Ropes. He has claimed in
Speaker 1: the past that Sean Diddy Holmes offered him money to
Speaker 1: kill Tupac.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he did.
Speaker 2: He's in his book, this book we've been talking about,
Speaker 2: this memoir that has gotten him into so much legal trouble.
Speaker 2: But yet in that book he wrote that Sean Diddy
Speaker 2: Coombs wanted sug Night and Tupac Shaker dead and offered
Speaker 2: him money to kill them. Now, Diddy has denied any
Speaker 2: involvement in that shooting. Has he specifically denied even making
Speaker 2: the request.
Speaker 1: You know, I haven't seen officially, but I'm sure he
Speaker 1: had no. There's nowhere where he's admitted that, yes, I was,
Speaker 1: I inquired about killing someone. I sure did. No, so
Speaker 1: obviously not. But es it was that kind of serious
Speaker 1: back then, like lives were at stake. That thing got
Speaker 1: ugly and we were eating it up, and it was
Speaker 1: good for sales, and who's going to have the next record?
Speaker 1: And you know what, we couldn't just have them uploaded,
Speaker 1: They couldn't fire them off. It took months before it
Speaker 1: made the way to you. So you're the anticipation. You're waiting,
Speaker 1: who's going to say the next thing? Man, these dudes,
Speaker 1: I mean TUPI had a disrecord. He said, my faux foe,
Speaker 1: make sure all your kids don't grow you know, it's
Speaker 1: just wrap woo. But these guys were firing off stuff
Speaker 1: to each other. And Tupac was before he was remember
Speaker 1: before he was killed. He was shot here in New
Speaker 1: York at a studio that he always blamed bad Boy
Speaker 1: and Diddy and crew for. He never forgot shot five times.
Speaker 2: If you know, it's crazy, because obviously words are weapons.
Speaker 2: We talk about this all the time, But to think
Speaker 2: that those words were actually turned into bullets, I mean,
Speaker 2: truly that it one thing led to another.
Speaker 3: Now, Diddy is not from what I gathered on.
Speaker 2: Any witness list, but certainly there has been a lot
Speaker 2: of inquiry as to whether or not he could or
Speaker 2: would testify in this case. It doesn't seem likely. But
Speaker 2: what about Shuge Knight. That's the one that I'm confused by.
Speaker 2: He's in prison right now serving a twenty eight year
Speaker 2: sentence for running over and killing a Compton businessman outside
Speaker 2: of a burger stand. But that was back in twenty fifteen.
Speaker 2: He has said previously that he would not testify in
Speaker 2: Davis's case, But I was just curious, like, couldn't they
Speaker 2: compel him to?
Speaker 1: He's forced to.
Speaker 2: He's literally the only living witness, or at least who
Speaker 2: was in that car other than Davis, who's still alive today.
Speaker 2: It seems like you would want him to test Yeah,
Speaker 2: why wouldn't he testify? That certainly would be a spectacle
Speaker 2: for sure. And he's not being quiet. I mean he's
Speaker 2: talked about Oh Comb's like Diddy during that trial. He
Speaker 2: was talking to reporters from prison non stop. So the
Speaker 2: dude likes to talk, so I'm just curious why he
Speaker 2: wouldn't want to testify in this case.
Speaker 1: Maybe he's got something.
Speaker 3: If you all could see the look on DJ's face.
Speaker 1: HM, there's so many stories out there about Shoe Knight.
Speaker 1: I've even sitting here. I'm not going to say anything,
Speaker 1: but we just have to take the fifth.
Speaker 3: That's almost like what your face looked like.
Speaker 2: I take the fifth. I'm not gonna even go further
Speaker 2: on that. Roes, please do talking about sign right?
Speaker 1: All right with that, folks, we're keeping an eye on
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff today. I want to update you here.
Speaker 1: We'll be following. Of course, we always appreciate you spending
Speaker 1: time with us. I'm TJ for my dear Amy. Robog
Speaker 1: will talk so
Speaker 2: M