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Speaker 1: Hello, everyone, Welcome to episode thirty eight of Hurdle, a

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Speaker 1: podcast talks to everyone from top CEOs to entrepreneurs about

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Speaker 1: how they got through tough times hurdles of sorts by

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Speaker 1: leaning into wellness. My name's Emilia Badi and today I'm

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Speaker 1: chatting with Naomi here by Ashi and mar Laidi, the

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Speaker 1: co founders of Shine, what they refer to as Your

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Speaker 1: Daily I got this essentially to break it down the

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Speaker 1: platform they've built since free daily text messages with motivational quotes,

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Speaker 1: positive affirmations, and actions you can take to be a

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Speaker 1: better you. This episode's brought to you by Athletic Greens.

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Speaker 1: You know when you reach for a green juice and

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Speaker 1: start every.

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Speaker 2: Single day off right.

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Speaker 1: Athletic Greens is offering a special deal to Hurdle listeners.

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Speaker 1: com slash hurdle. Now let's talk about Mara and Naomi,

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Speaker 1: the duo networking at the nonprofit, do something and immediately

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Speaker 1: became fast friends.

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Speaker 2: And that's pretty special as adults when you find someone

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Speaker 2: you quick with.

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Speaker 1: Because, if you ask me, making friends later in life

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Speaker 1: can be a little sticky. Anyway, they were constantly leaning

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Speaker 1: on each other to work through everything from hard to

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Speaker 1: have conversations at the office to relationship issues. When they

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Speaker 1: realized that they could team up to make something really

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Speaker 1: great outside of where they were in twenty sixteen, they

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Speaker 1: took a leap of faith and left their jobs to

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Speaker 1: focus on Shine full time, raised millions of dollars in funding,

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Speaker 1: and now bring their preventative tech driven app to more

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Speaker 1: than two.

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Speaker 2: Million users around the world.

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Speaker 1: If you're in New York City tomorrow night, January twenty third,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to be doing a live show from we

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Speaker 1: work on Varick at six thirty. Exciting because we work

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Speaker 1: globst showcasing Hurdle and their great Reads.

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Speaker 2: And Listens Club as podcasts of the month. So to celebrate,

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Speaker 2: I'm sitting down to.

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Speaker 1: Chat with Naomi and Mara, as well as past hurdler's

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Speaker 1: Adam Callen of Jane Motorcycles and Jesse Dover of Digny Dover.

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Speaker 1: I am really, really, really really looking forward to it.

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Speaker 1: You can find all the details on that over at

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Speaker 1: hurdle dot Us. As always Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, hit me

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Speaker 1: up at Hurdle Podcast.

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Speaker 2: Please do me two quick quick favors when you're done

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Speaker 2: listening to this episode today. First, send it to a

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Speaker 2: friend share the hurdle love.

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Speaker 1: And secondly, please leave a review of the pod in

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Speaker 1: the iTunes store. It helps Hurdle on the charts and

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Speaker 1: overall just encourages more people to join this little community

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Speaker 1: of hurdlers wherever they may be. Also, if you have

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Speaker 1: a hurdle moment to share, I just want to say hi,

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Speaker 1: feel free to ping me Emily at hurdle dot us

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Speaker 1: and uh.

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Speaker 2: I think that's it with that, Let's get to hurdling today.

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Speaker 1: I'm sitting here with the Shine co founders. I've got Mara,

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Speaker 1: Lidi and Naomi here by Ashi. I'm so excited to

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Speaker 1: be here.

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Speaker 2: With you guys.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for having us, Emilie, thanks for coming in.

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Speaker 1: This is only the second time that I've sat down

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Speaker 1: with two people at once for like a single episode.

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Speaker 2: Oh cool. Yeah, I sat.

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Speaker 1: Down with the Cikar Life founders and it was in

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Speaker 1: my old studio at Weework, and the booth was just

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Speaker 1: similar size.

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Speaker 3: We're nice and cozy, very cozy, but it's like a

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Speaker 3: survival box, like it feels safe. We we spoke on

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Speaker 3: a panel with one of the founders' Tacara Life.

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Speaker 1: Oh they're so fantastic. Yeah, they're so great. I'm so

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Speaker 1: excited to be here with you guys today. I think

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Speaker 1: first and foremost what we need to do is give

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Speaker 1: the hurdlers a little insight as to what Shine is.

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Speaker 2: So why don't you throw it down for me?

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Speaker 4: Shine is your daily I got this. Our mission is

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Speaker 4: to make well being accessible, which means making it more representative, easier,

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Speaker 4: and more for to live your biggest and best life.

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Speaker 4: We've been around for about two and a half years

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Speaker 4: now and we have three million members around the world

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Speaker 4: that get our Shine Texts, which is a free daily

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Speaker 4: text that you can get to help you practice intention

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Speaker 4: and show up for yourself. And then we also just

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Speaker 4: launched an audio product called Shine Talks Awesome.

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Speaker 1: I woke up to a text this morning that said,

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Speaker 1: It's all about your energy, not your calendar, and then

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Speaker 1: another one this week was the Trick to Stronger Boundaries

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Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen Emily. I love it when it addresses

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Speaker 1: me by name Emily owning your No, and I'm like, yeah, I'm.

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Speaker 3: Gonna say no, yes, yes, yes, to.

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Speaker 1: Know exactly here for no. I feel like saying no

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Speaker 1: is a big theme that I've like been It's part

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Speaker 1: of the conversation that I've been having with a lot

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Speaker 1: of people in the last few weeks since the new

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Speaker 1: year started.

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Speaker 3: Well, you're reading about essentialisms. Yeah, Yeah, I'm reading Essentialism,

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Speaker 3: which is just was a really good book to read

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Speaker 3: before the new year. I also just came back from

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Speaker 3: maternity leave, so it was the most time I've gotten

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Speaker 3: to kind of take a step back and just process

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Speaker 3: a lot of like the amazing things from last year.

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Speaker 3: But the big thing that he talks about in the

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Speaker 3: book is around emotional discipline and how Noah is saying no.

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Speaker 3: One's really about power. It's about owning your agency to

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Speaker 3: create your life versus just respond to it, which is

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Speaker 3: something we need reminders on all the time because there's

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Speaker 3: a lot of messages out there that tell us otherwise.

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Speaker 1: I think also for me, I say yes a lot

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Speaker 1: when I don't want to let other people down, But

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Speaker 1: then it needs to come back full circle to me

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Speaker 1: and how am I going to be if I say yes?

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Speaker 1: Am I going to be doing myself a service? It's cool,

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Speaker 1: Like I love serving others. I'm big on acts of service,

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Speaker 1: but I think that's sometimes if you don't take a

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Speaker 1: step back and realize how you feel, then you can't

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Speaker 1: just continue and continue and continue to give and give

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Speaker 1: and give if you're not going to get back to yourself.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the difference.

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Speaker 4: We talk a lot about the difference between I can't

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Speaker 4: and I don't write, or I'm busy and I'm focused.

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Speaker 4: So you know, oftentimes we feel bad for like turning

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Speaker 4: down a meeting invite or not being able to go

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Speaker 4: to an event or help people out. And having a

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Speaker 4: set of rules for yourself, which honestly gets back to

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Speaker 4: essentialism is what is actually essential for me as a

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Speaker 4: person and professionally and my values, and then kind of

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Speaker 4: setting those rules in a way that allows you to

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Speaker 4: very easily say like, oh, I don't do that, I

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Speaker 4: don't I don't go to after work events on Mondays.

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Speaker 4: I don't work on Saturday. Having a set of rules

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Speaker 4: for yourself, and you know I'm not busy. It's not

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Speaker 4: because I can't. I'm focused. Yep, whoa, I don't go

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Speaker 4: I don't go to events on Monday.

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Speaker 3: Yes, exactly.

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Speaker 2: Maybe I should adopt that into my vocabulary.

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Speaker 3: It's powerful. It's such a slight thing, but it's it's

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Speaker 3: really really powerful.

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Speaker 1: Walking into your beautiful office space today on Broadway in Nomad,

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Speaker 1: it's bright and shining, and everyone in the office is

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Speaker 1: noticeably very happy. We have the best team. Everyone's super happy.

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Speaker 1: So tell me about Shine's beginnings. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So name and I met working together.

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Speaker 4: I guess it's eight years ago now, good Jess.

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Speaker 3: Every time, every time along the time keeps on moving forward.

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Speaker 2: That's right. Well where are you both? Where are you both?

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Speaker 1: Marginal line.

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Speaker 3: I'm from northern Virginia, right outside d.

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Speaker 2: See, okay.

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Speaker 3: And I'm from Savannah, Georgia.

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Speaker 2: Okay. And so you met.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's.

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Speaker 4: Interesting you asked where we're from. We often talk about

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Speaker 4: how we have non traditional backgrounds. And I'm doing air

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Speaker 4: quotes right now because we came to the city. Both

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Speaker 4: you know, like many people come to the city looking

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Speaker 4: for kind of a new beginning and a fresh start

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Speaker 4: and for something bigger than what we were finding. Where

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Speaker 4: we were from and had just great backgrounds in terms

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Speaker 4: of we both had the opportunity to work at startups,

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Speaker 4: we both worked at corporations, and then we ended up

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Speaker 4: finding ourselves working together at a nonprofit called dosothing dot Org.

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Speaker 4: It was an incredible experience. We both got to manage

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Speaker 4: fairly large teams there be a part of the management team,

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Speaker 4: and more than anything out of our experience outside of,

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Speaker 4: you know, getting to learn a hard skill set around

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Speaker 4: what does it look like to scale social change for

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Speaker 4: young people was we found each other and we found

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Speaker 4: this incredibly symbiotic relationships. It's like we often talk about

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Speaker 4: how you meet someone and you're like, I think she's

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Speaker 4: person Like we were able to. I mean, we work

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Speaker 4: wifed very quickly in terms of like when we met

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Speaker 4: and just really quickly understanding like this is someone who

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Speaker 4: gets it and who sees the world the way I

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Speaker 4: see it and can also help me to better see myself.

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Speaker 4: So what very early on happened is that we would

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Speaker 4: send each other invites for coffees in the morning and

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Speaker 4: then you know, whine after work or lunch to work

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Speaker 4: through the day to day stuff.

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Speaker 3: So everything from day.

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Speaker 4: To day management issues or going in to ask for

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Speaker 4: a raise or promotion and saying like, hey, can you

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Speaker 4: be my manager for five minutes, I'm going to say

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Speaker 4: these things?

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Speaker 3: What do you think?

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Speaker 4: Also, I feel kind of weird because I feel like

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Speaker 4: I should know how much I'm worth for this next

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Speaker 4: promotion or this next raise, but I don't.

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Speaker 3: Is that weird?

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Speaker 4: And the first and most powerful thing we did for

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Speaker 4: each other was we stopped that in its tracks.

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Speaker 3: And so that's not weird. I've been there.

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Speaker 4: Whatever it is, whether it's anxiety, whether it's working on

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Speaker 4: your credit score, whatever that thing is that you feel

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Speaker 4: alone in and isolated in, someone else has experienced it.

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Speaker 4: It's a part of the human condition, right, So we said,

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Speaker 4: that's not weird, and a lot of times that it

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Speaker 4: was I've been there or know someone who's been there. Right,

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Speaker 4: So immediately you get the sense of normalization and not

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Speaker 4: feeling alone. And the second thing we did for each other,

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Speaker 4: which we didn't really understand at the time, is often

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Speaker 4: coined as coaching, is we gave each other tactical ways

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Speaker 4: to move forward, like I've been there and here's what

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Speaker 4: I've done to deal with that. So in each other,

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Speaker 4: we found somebody who was both accessible and aspirational, somebody

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Speaker 4: that I could relate to and that sees me and

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Speaker 4: somebody I really wanted to be like, and I wanted

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Speaker 4: to mimic certain qualities, right, And I think that's very unique.

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Speaker 4: And when we took a step back and talked about

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Speaker 4: what we offered each other that wasn't happening in other

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Speaker 4: friends workspaces and we often you know, would hear from them.

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Speaker 3: I wish I had that.

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Speaker 4: I wish I had a Naomi at my job who

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Speaker 4: was with me through the day to day highs and lows.

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Speaker 4: And we looked at the industry. We saw that just

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Speaker 4: even the category, which at the time was still being

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Speaker 4: talked about as self help, hasn't been updated in a

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Speaker 4: really long time, right, So people there's still like the

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Speaker 4: amazing gurus like Deepak Chopra and Tony Robbins and Oprah

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Speaker 4: we love Oprah, just to be clear, but there wasn't

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Speaker 4: anything that felt accessible and on a peer to peer

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Speaker 4: basis that people could then make a daily habit, right,

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Speaker 4: something that could help you practice what we now call

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Speaker 4: self care versus what was typically talked about is self help,

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Speaker 4: which was a lot more focused on a short term

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Speaker 4: solution to fix yourself, whereas our generation is very much

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Speaker 4: leading this shift from self help to self care because

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Speaker 4: we're looking for ways that are preventable and habitual to

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Speaker 4: prevent a crisis.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: We know that in order to live our big lives,

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Speaker 4: and we often talk about the fact that we are

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Speaker 4: the most ambitious generation to date, and we also don't

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Speaker 4: make as much of money in these previous generations or

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Speaker 4: buying houses later, we're getting married later. So with that

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Speaker 4: kind of conundrum being this paradoxical generation, we very much

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Speaker 4: are realizing that we need some solution on a daily

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Speaker 4: basis to take care of ourselves and to really help

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Speaker 4: ourselves see ourselves. So we met working together, and then

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Speaker 4: not long after, just a few years after, we came

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Speaker 4: up with this idea of what if we took our

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Speaker 4: expertise in scaling out intimate experiences like we were doing,

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Speaker 4: do something with this relationship that we have that's incredibly symbiotic,

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Speaker 4: that's pure based and also accessible, And we launched the first.

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Speaker 1: Product, which is Shine Text there's so much to unpack

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Speaker 1: in that whole story. The first thing is this idea

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Speaker 1: of adult friendships. So you're saying that a lot of

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Speaker 1: people would be like, oh man, I wish I had

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Speaker 1: a Naomi. I think a lot of people in general

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Speaker 1: like one hundred percent, especially as we get older, it's

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Speaker 1: really hard to make friends.

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Speaker 2: And I think it's because we put up a lot

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Speaker 2: of walls and.

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Speaker 1: You really know, like I would hope, who you are

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Speaker 1: and the kind of people that fit into that. And

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Speaker 1: it's not every day you walk down the street and

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Speaker 1: you find someone that feels like they fit into your puzzle.

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Speaker 1: So the fact that you two could recognize that is

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Speaker 1: pretty special.

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Speaker 4: I think I often say with friendships, it's like it's

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Speaker 4: repeat sustainable interactions. And you know, it's really hard after

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Speaker 4: you get out of any kind of school setting, Is

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Speaker 4: that right?

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Speaker 3: Like how do you set up time? Especially I think

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Speaker 3: in these bigger cities where we just honestly don't have as.

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Speaker 4: Much space, so you're not hanging out at people's houses

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Speaker 4: as much, you don't have that opportunity. And so I

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Speaker 4: do think there is something really special about starting a

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Speaker 4: company with somebody that I had worked with so I

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Speaker 4: know what we are like to work together, but also

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Speaker 4: I have someone that is a very deep friend and

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Speaker 4: someone that we were able to relate to on this

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Speaker 4: in this other way. And to your point, most people don't.

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Speaker 4: And we think access is it's something we're so passionate

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Speaker 4: about because we often heard not just from friends around

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Speaker 4: New York, but in Virginia and in Georgia and all

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Speaker 4: over the country, Like I just I'm struggling. I'm struggling

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Speaker 4: with being a parent for the first time and not

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Speaker 4: knowing what that looks like. I'm struggling with not feeling

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Speaker 4: seen at work. I'm struggling with being the only woman

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Speaker 4: of color on my team, Like what does that look

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Speaker 4: like to get support for that when you don't have

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Speaker 4: somebody with you a day to day basis.

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Speaker 1: Right, It's interesting because obviously you both met at do something.

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Speaker 1: You're building a company that's super again about like human

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Speaker 1: connectivity and like compassion.

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Speaker 2: Did you always think that you were going to into

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Speaker 2: this space?

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Speaker 1: Like did you grow up surrounded by a lot of compassion,

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Speaker 1: surrounded by certain individuals that just like propelled you to

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Speaker 1: do these acts of human service so to speak.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think what's interesting in that the question around

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Speaker 3: did we grow up around a lot of compassion is

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Speaker 3: that we certainly found those examples, like both of us

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Speaker 3: have grandmothers who really mattered a lot to us. But there,

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Speaker 3: you know, there were moments that it was challenging, I think,

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Speaker 3: to really see ourselves. And for me specifically, I remember

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Speaker 3: being in Savannah and I had moved recently from where

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Speaker 3: I grew up in Pennsylvania, and I was getting ready

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Speaker 3: to go to apply for college and I'd been in

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Speaker 3: Savannah for a few years, gone to high school there.

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Speaker 3: It was a pretty hard time to move, going from

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Speaker 3: middle school to high school. You know, you're you're still.

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Speaker 4: Awkward and you're just kind of forming your crew and

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Speaker 4: then you have to start over.

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Speaker 3: So that was challenging.

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Speaker 4: And I remember just thinking about college and where I

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Speaker 4: was going to go, and you know, for me, I

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Speaker 4: needed to put myself through college, so.

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Speaker 3: Like just how I was going to go and what

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Speaker 3: does that look like. And I had a job in

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Speaker 3: high school working at a pizza shop, and I worked

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Speaker 3: my way up to be the manager there, the junior manager.

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Speaker 3: It was a big deal.

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Speaker 4: But I remember even though I had had like, you know,

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Speaker 4: moments that I had affirmed my own belief in myself,

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Speaker 4: like being able to do that while I was also

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Speaker 4: in school there. Things would still get to me if

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Speaker 4: somebody gave me, you know, called something out or gave

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Speaker 4: a specific piece of feedback about my experience. So I

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Speaker 4: remember I worked with someone that was asking me. I

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Speaker 4: was talking about how I was going to take the

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Speaker 4: ESAT on that weekend that Saturday, and he was like, oh,

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Speaker 4: that's cool, Like yeah, like where are you trying to go?

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Speaker 4: And in Savannah and Georgia generally like you know, the

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Speaker 4: big state school, University of Georgia, everyone is. You know,

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Speaker 4: that's kind of like the dream to go there, if

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Speaker 4: you want to go to school in state.

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Speaker 3: And I was like, yeah, I think I want to

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Speaker 3: go to Uga.

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Speaker 4: And I didn't think it was that word of a

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Speaker 4: thing to say, but he immediately laughed. He just responded

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Speaker 4: with a laugh, and he not that it matters. He

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Speaker 4: was like a year younger than me, and just the

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Speaker 4: level at which he just the condescension and just being.

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Speaker 3: Like, oh my, you're never gonna get into Uga. That's

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Speaker 3: what he said to me. Right after that. I in

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Speaker 3: that moment was just like I don't think I realized

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Speaker 3: that I did believe or didn't believe I was going

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Speaker 3: to get in.

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Speaker 4: I think I just assumed, like, this is where I

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Speaker 4: want to go, and I'll figure it out, because that's

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Speaker 4: what I had done in my life. But I had

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Speaker 4: this person, this very real coworker of mine, that was like,

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Speaker 4: that's absolutely not gonna happen for you, and I just

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Speaker 4: it really bothered me, and it hurt obviously, and I

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Speaker 4: sat with it for a while, and then that weekend

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Speaker 4: I took my essat and I actually wrote about him

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Speaker 4: in my sat essay, and I wrote about the fact that,

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Speaker 4: you know, growing up, I didn't always have an example

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Speaker 4: of what I wanted to be my next step to

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Speaker 4: look like. And part of that does come from.

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Speaker 3: My financial circumstances and family and all of that, but

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Speaker 3: that I had this this belief in myself, but it

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Speaker 3: wasn't unshakable, and that there were these people that you know,

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Speaker 3: can could get me down. And what I wanted to

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Speaker 3: do was focus on persevering through that and proving those

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Speaker 3: people wrong.

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Speaker 4: So that's what I wrote about my sat essay. I

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Speaker 4: got a perfect score an essay which I love.

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Speaker 2: I thought you were like a perfect screen in the essay.

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Speaker 1: So that would be cool, be cool, But also I

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Speaker 1: couldn't if you paid me, I could not tell you

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Speaker 1: what I wrote.

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Speaker 2: About on my SAT essay.

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Speaker 3: Well there's something it's.

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Speaker 2: Clearly whatever I wrote about like was not as well.

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Speaker 4: I think it's really cool to talk about your ESSAYT

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Speaker 4: score when you're That's what I'm trying to go for here.

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Speaker 3: But no, it really stuck with me.

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Speaker 4: Because it was an example of a time that I

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Speaker 4: actually leveraged someone's feedback about who they thought I was

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Speaker 4: and I just like, you know, gave them a huge

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Speaker 4: middle finger and I.

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Speaker 3: Was like, I'm going to actually use you to get there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and he received Georgia.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, girl. So you know, take that, young man

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Speaker 3: wherever you are, not to know who you are.

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Speaker 4: But I remember I actually wrote about it when we

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Speaker 4: first started shining for Forbes around just it's fuel to me.

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Speaker 4: It's fuel when people don't believe in me. I've now

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Speaker 4: made that a habit where I adopt that and I

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Speaker 4: use that and it's not on a spite or you know,

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Speaker 4: hate or anything like that. It's just like great, I

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Speaker 4: love proving people wrong.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the best. What about you, man?

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Speaker 3: The first word was, Oh, it was, but my grandpa

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Speaker 3: was called you know what you're about to Well, I

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Speaker 3: know it because it is part of the story because

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Speaker 3: it didn't help me get in anywhere. So I remember

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Speaker 3: it and it's lack of impact.

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Speaker 2: It was.

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Speaker 3: It was called in my grandfather's eyes, it was about

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Speaker 3: well I was. I was really close with my grandparents

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Speaker 3: and my grandfather had a stroke my high school, yeah,

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Speaker 3: senior year, and I was very I was very close

401
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Speaker 3: with them. I like grew up with them, and they

402
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Speaker 3: walked to school and they were basically like I mean,

403
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Speaker 3: I have two very amazing active parents, but they were

404
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Speaker 3: also like parents. And so I wrote about him post

405
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Speaker 3: stroke tears moll I didn't get in that I didn't

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Speaker 3: get into school, which is my story. But yeah, the

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00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:21,800
Speaker 3: immediate word that came to mind, I think in response

408
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Speaker 3: to this is actually anger, which is a word that

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Speaker 3: we don't talk a lot about, and I think we're

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Speaker 3: starting to talk about it more. But as someone that

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Speaker 3: you know is perceived as like kind of bubbly and

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Speaker 3: friendly and all those things, a really difficult relationship with

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Speaker 3: I think anger early on. So I was just because

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Speaker 3: of a lot of reasons, like just kind of was

415
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Speaker 3: going through a tough time in high school and I

416
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Speaker 3: was struggling. I went from being like a really good

417
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Speaker 3: student to not being a good student, like one point

418
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Speaker 3: nine GPA, barely going to graduate. And I was very

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Speaker 3: very angry at my situation, but it didn't it didn't

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Speaker 3: hit me until later on reflecting. Actually, there's like one

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Speaker 3: talk that I did that like kind of processing this

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Speaker 3: time in my life, just realizing how angry I was.

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Speaker 3: I was very angry at my circumstances, angry that I

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Speaker 3: felt like I didn't have any control, like I was

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Speaker 3: just kind of succumbing to the environment, and I became

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Speaker 3: very resentful and that it was It's probably it's like

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Speaker 3: the ugliest time I think for me, like in how

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Speaker 3: how I treated people, it was all you know, it was.

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Speaker 3: I was seventeen at the time, so that manifested in

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Speaker 3: a way that was just kind of like I don't care,

431
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Speaker 3: like you know, it doesn't matter, like what is school?

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Speaker 3: What are grades?

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Speaker 2: Like?

434
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Speaker 3: What does that mean? Like it was just very seemingly

435
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Speaker 3: rebellious but actually not productive. So what that resulted in

436
00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:43,919
Speaker 3: is I applied to one school I didn't get in,

437
00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:48,440
Speaker 3: and I didn't have a backup plan, but I ended

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Speaker 3: up staying home and had what would later on become

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Speaker 3: probably the most like just the most insightful year of

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Speaker 3: my life. So I stayed home, I worked full time,

441
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:00,239
Speaker 3: not full time. I worked, I guess part time with

442
00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:04,680
Speaker 3: school full time. Went to nearby community college. And community

443
00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,080
Speaker 3: college will always be the biggest advocate for because you

444
00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:09,480
Speaker 3: have a lot of people from different situations and a

445
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,440
Speaker 3: lot of people that are getting to pursue their college

446
00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:14,240
Speaker 3: degree for the first time at a different stage in life.

447
00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:16,840
Speaker 3: And so it one gave me a deeper appreciation of

448
00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:21,280
Speaker 3: just education and the blessing of education. And two, I

449
00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:24,679
Speaker 3: moved out of my house, which was causing a lot

450
00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:26,479
Speaker 3: of the stress, and moved in with my grandmother, who

451
00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,600
Speaker 3: had just lost her husband, and we were incredibly close,

452
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:32,280
Speaker 3: and that ended up being like the last couple of

453
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:34,560
Speaker 3: years of her life, and so we got to bunk

454
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:36,640
Speaker 3: up together. My first year in college was a lot

455
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:41,159
Speaker 3: of me hanging out with my grandmother and driving her

456
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:43,240
Speaker 3: to chemo and going to McDonald's after because she like

457
00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,040
Speaker 3: French fries after chemo, and she was very unapologetic about it.

458
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,720
Speaker 3: She said, your body needs when the needs, and I

459
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:51,040
Speaker 3: got dropped off I didn't have a car, so I

460
00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,120
Speaker 3: got dropped off at community College by my grandmother, which

461
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:57,919
Speaker 3: was also very humbling. So basically like anger to humility

462
00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,800
Speaker 3: to then accountability and action. So I in that time

463
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,160
Speaker 3: realized that I had, Yes, there was reasons why maybe

464
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,120
Speaker 3: it wasn't able to like thrive in the same way

465
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:10,080
Speaker 3: I had imagined I wanted to. But I also had

466
00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:12,879
Speaker 3: a lot of ability to do something about and make

467
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:16,400
Speaker 3: a change, And so I applied to James Madison, where

468
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:18,359
Speaker 3: I really wanted to go. All my friends were there,

469
00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:21,159
Speaker 3: it was a great state school. I got rejected, so

470
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:25,160
Speaker 3: I transferred to another school where I got in Radford

471
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:27,359
Speaker 3: and had a good time there, but just felt like

472
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:31,080
Speaker 3: Jamie was really where I wanted to be. I applied again,

473
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,479
Speaker 3: and before it actually got accepted, I signed a legally

474
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,840
Speaker 3: binding lease because I was eighteen years old and I

475
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,359
Speaker 3: had told like my parents or anyone that I was

476
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,440
Speaker 3: gonna move and just was like, I'm going to actually

477
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,399
Speaker 3: go to JAMU. I didn't get in again, and so

478
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:48,439
Speaker 3: I got witlisted, but I had to go back to

479
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:50,320
Speaker 3: community college because I was going to be living in

480
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:52,480
Speaker 3: this other area because I had signed the lease and

481
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,280
Speaker 3: ended up getting my associate's degree at Blue Ridge Community College,

482
00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:58,160
Speaker 3: which is a fantastic community college in the Shanandoah Valley,

483
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:03,399
Speaker 3: and ended up trans back into JMU after finally getting accepted,

484
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,160
Speaker 3: forcing myself into the school through the Associates guaranteed Admissions

485
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:12,000
Speaker 3: program with a minimum GPA, and I graduated in five years,

486
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:16,359
Speaker 3: so four colleges in five years, honors, and really found

487
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 3: myself there because I felt like it was at the

488
00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:23,159
Speaker 3: time was this very like not linear path and it

489
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,679
Speaker 3: wasn't the tritional college experience whatever that's supposed to be,

490
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 3: but I had actually earned it. It was such a

491
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 3: feeling of merit and that momentum from seeing what I

492
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,159
Speaker 3: could do when I just processed, like the control that

493
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 3: I had in the situation is a big reason what

494
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,880
Speaker 3: led me to New York and stuff that we tapped into,

495
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,600
Speaker 3: I think when we when we went full time.

496
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,480
Speaker 1: It's so interesting what you said about this idea that

497
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 1: I was just so angry at my circumstance. It takes

498
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 1: a lot of time and wisdom to get to a

499
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,480
Speaker 1: point where you realize that being angry at the circumstance

500
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:56,919
Speaker 1: isn't going to move you forward.

501
00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,879
Speaker 3: Yes, I have a very specific memory my dad taking

502
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:02,679
Speaker 3: My dad's a very cool dad. He's not like the

503
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 3: dad that's gonna put a lot of pressure on you

504
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 3: and be like, yeah, it's a cool I'm not a

505
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 3: regular dad.

506
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 2: And this was when I was just I was just struggling.

507
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:12,199
Speaker 3: I was just not I was like, I don't care.

508
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:13,680
Speaker 3: I just don't care. I don't care about anything, doesn't

509
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:17,680
Speaker 3: matter whatever, very mature, and he was like, you can't

510
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:19,920
Speaker 3: fight the world, Like you're only going to get so far.

511
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 3: You can't fight the world. And it was the first time.

512
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:24,520
Speaker 3: My dad's always been very like we have a great

513
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 3: relationship with our with our dads and cheer us on

514
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,480
Speaker 3: and think very highly of us. I remember him being

515
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 3: very disappointed, Like I could see it in his eyes,

516
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 3: just being like, what are you doing that? That was

517
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:39,240
Speaker 3: a turning point, I think for me, just seeing kind

518
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 3: of the disappointment.

519
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:45,360
Speaker 1: So what did life look like before you decided that

520
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 1: you want to start your own company? Like, obviously you're

521
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 1: both working at Do Something, but what else? What else

522
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:51,680
Speaker 1: can we highlight here?

523
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:54,879
Speaker 3: So what was happening before we started Shine is we

524
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,359
Speaker 3: were at Do Something and we both had done well.

525
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,240
Speaker 3: We had senior positions, you know, in this company that

526
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 3: we really loved. We were in relationships, and we were

527
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:06,199
Speaker 3: just having that kind of energy of being young in

528
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 3: New York and feeling like anything as possible. The single

529
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 3: biggest difference between where we are now and where we

530
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 3: were then is this idea of is that me, like,

531
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 3: could I start something? We both in conversations that we

532
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 3: would have with each other, had that kind of feeling

533
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 3: in your gut where you're like, I think there's something

534
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 3: really powerful here. I have this specific point of view

535
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 3: on the world. I'm picking up on certain conversations and

536
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 3: picking up on what's happening socially and culturally, and I

537
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 3: want to do something about that. I want to really

538
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,399
Speaker 3: impact that. But when you looked at a lot of

539
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 3: positions of power or examples of entrepreneurs that were out there,

540
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,440
Speaker 3: something that mar and I connected on instantly was not

541
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:51,119
Speaker 3: necessarily seeing ourselves in those versions, maybe like what the

542
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:56,679
Speaker 3: people looked like or personality or communication style. And it

543
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:58,639
Speaker 3: took a while for us to get to this point

544
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 3: through really like leaning on each each other and just

545
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 3: doing it and taking this massive risk to over time,

546
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:07,160
Speaker 3: really see ourselves. Mara and I Buy All Accounts were

547
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,439
Speaker 3: very successful I mean, we had these I was a CMO.

548
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 3: She was director of mobile product and messaging at the

549
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,119
Speaker 3: biggest organization for young people in social change in the world.

550
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,440
Speaker 3: We were living in New York, we were doing big,

551
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 3: ambitious things, and there's still more that we wanted to do.

552
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 3: And that's what we talk about a lot like for

553
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:27,159
Speaker 3: our community. Everyone's really ambitious and there's still stuff that

554
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 3: we're working towards. Like we can accept and honor where

555
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 3: we are, but there's more that we're working towards, but

556
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 3: we do need examples of what it can look like.

557
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 3: That's that's wider than it is right now.

558
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 2: And I think also it's like this idea that whether

559
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 2: you're young in New York and you feel that way,

560
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 2: or your bill gates and you still feel that way,

561
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,639
Speaker 2: like there's just something inside of you when you want

562
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 2: something more, and it does just because you've reached one

563
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,360
Speaker 2: goal or hit one target, that doesn't mean that you're

564
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 2: not allowed or entitled or capable for reaching for the

565
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:00,360
Speaker 2: next thing, right, you know, And I.

566
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 4: Think that that can be the hardest part, and a

567
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 4: lot of people don't talk about it from a representative

568
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 4: point of view, and that that actually taking the step.

569
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 4: It is so scary when you don't have a fallback,

570
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 4: like we didn't have savings, we had debt. And I

571
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 4: just remember so much of my validation had come from

572
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 4: accolades and working really hard in school, working really hard

573
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 4: in work, you know, to Naomi's point, we had kind

574
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 4: of on paper so many great things happening for us.

575
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 3: But I don't think what I realized for myself.

576
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 4: Was that that that's the validation that I wasn't giving myself.

577
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 4: I was seeking it by how much money I made,

578
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 4: or what people said about me, what feedback I got, promotions,

579
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 4: all of that, as opposed to being able to say like, no,

580
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 4: you're pretty great and here's why. And I think that

581
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 4: the catalyst of what happened for us to start Shine

582
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 4: was very much going through that process of validating ourselves.

583
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 4: So there was a good few months where we had

584
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 4: we just did Shine as a side hustle and validated

585
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 4: the initial product of Shine text.

586
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 3: Got all this incredible feedback.

587
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 4: And you know, it was just a really beautiful moment.

588
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 4: And in that moment, we could have just gone heads

589
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:15,680
Speaker 4: down and been like, we know, we're going to stay

590
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,359
Speaker 4: at this company and this will be a fun side

591
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 4: project and then we'll close it out. But we had

592
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 4: a conversation with each other where we were like, we look,

593
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 4: this is this feels like it's bigger than us, and

594
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 4: it feels like it's a disservice to many potentially other

595
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 4: people if we don't go full force on this. And

596
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 4: it was I think very emotionally and mentally challenging to

597
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,880
Speaker 4: be able to go from from where we were to.

598
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 3: Like looking at each other and be like, I can't

599
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 3: I could quit my job. And part of like I

600
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 3: can't quit my job is like, sure, I can't.

601
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,159
Speaker 4: Not only do I not have the like fallback, but

602
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 4: it's a limiting belief in that if we.

603
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,920
Speaker 3: Did and something bad happened, I wouldn't be okay, right.

604
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 4: Which is true for a lot of people. It's certainly

605
00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:00,199
Speaker 4: a privilege to be able to, you know, have be

606
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 4: able bodied and be able to you know, if we

607
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 4: needed to like waitress or consult and have the network

608
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 4: that we have, Like, there's certainly an element of privilege

609
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 4: that comes to this entire conversation. However, I don't think

610
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 4: we realize for ourselves that that limiting belief of like

611
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 4: I can, and I don't think we can was coming

612
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 4: from a sense of like I don't trust myself and

613
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 4: I don't believe in myself and a lot of times,

614
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 4: and this is something INDIAI actually talks about a lot.

615
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 3: A lot of times, we're not just afraid of failure,

616
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,960
Speaker 3: but we're afraid of success. We're afraid of what happens

617
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:35,400
Speaker 3: if it works.

618
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: And like the unknown, right, Like wouldn't you say that

619
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 1: a lot of the time success is something in circumstantial

620
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 1: for sure, but that you don't know what's going to happen.

621
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think whether we like it or not, Like,

622
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 3: we grow up with a certain level of authority, right

623
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 3: we have we go to school, and then we go

624
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 3: to work, and we have a boss, and we have teachers,

625
00:28:54,240 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 3: and we have parents, and we often resent that authority.

626
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 3: But what we're existing in is this concept of extreme accountability.

627
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 3: You know, if you can get Tomorrow's point, we're very

628
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 3: lucky to be able, very privileged to be able to

629
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 3: raise the rounds that we have and been able to

630
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 3: build out this company. If it fails, it's on us.

631
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 3: Like that is extreme accountability. If you put yourself out there,

632
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 3: you know, in the early stages and say hey, I'm

633
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 3: gonna quit my job. We hadn't fundraised yet, we didn't

634
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 3: have any experience in fundraising. If this fails, it's on us.

635
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 3: And a lot of life is you know, an ability

636
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 3: to kind of blame other authority figures if something doesn't

637
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 3: work out, if you're not getting that chance at work,

638
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 3: or like if you didn't get that opportunity. So there's

639
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 3: a level of extreme accountability that comes with risk that

640
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 3: is terrifying, and we idealize it, but when you're often

641
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 3: faced with it's it's holding up the mirror in a

642
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 3: way that I mean, we never have before.

643
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 1: I also think that to an extent social media that

644
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 1: can be a good thing about it, because whenever I

645
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: have a crazy goal, the second that I tell somebody

646
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 1: else about it, or I tell like ten thousand people

647
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 1: about it, and I'm like, well, shit, you better get

648
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: ready to put your.

649
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 2: Girl pampa on, it's time to move.

650
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: It's like when I mean totally different scenario, but going

651
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 1: from bi weekly to weekly with hurdle, it was like, okay,

652
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 1: well this is just like completely changing the game because

653
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 1: now whereas you had like fourteen days to figure your

654
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 1: shit out every week every two weeks, now you don't

655
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 1: have that kind of time, and you need to keep

656
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 1: meeting people and getting out there and talking and just doing.

657
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 1: But if you don't put yourself, if you don't put

658
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 1: yourself out there, then you'll never know what could be.

659
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 3: Right, I think, yeah, absolutely. And what's interesting about this

660
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 3: concept of success, and this is very much in line

661
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 3: with this new campaign that we launched called Hustle and Hard,

662
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 3: which is reflective of not just the Shine community but

663
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 3: also our generation, is that we have to choose, and

664
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 3: this particular happens for more marginalized communities. I think women

665
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 3: and women of color, and you know, people coming from

666
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,719
Speaker 3: different maybe socioeconomic situations, but feeling like if I actually

667
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 3: get what I want, if I get the success, if

668
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 3: I get to become the founder of a company that

669
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 3: I love and have built, I won't be able to

670
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 3: have the other stuff, you know, I won't be able

671
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 3: to also take care of myself. And while the concept

672
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 3: of having it all is problematic and misleading, what we

673
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 3: like an updated version of that is you can hustle

674
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 3: with heart, which is which is the concept that we

675
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 3: abide by and really believe in, which is all around

676
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 3: going after your big, ambitious goals. But doing it with

677
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 3: self compassion and not feeling like to you know what

678
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 3: mar was saying earlier, this older kind of concept of

679
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 3: just kind of toxic masculinity that has led entrepreneurship for

680
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 3: a long time, which is like you can sleep when

681
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 3: you're dead and like go bigger, go home, and like

682
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 3: there's no time. But now all these kind of like

683
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 3: this is it doesn't always resonate with with our generation.

684
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 3: We want to work incredibly hard and also make sure

685
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 3: that we're taking care of ourselves along the way, because

686
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 3: that's ultimately what will keep us in the game.

687
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 1: You're also talking about like this idea of like wanting

688
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 1: to have it all but being scared to have it all,

689
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 1: and that it's like you want to be the founder

690
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: of a company, but you also want to, like I

691
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 1: like you want to you also want to identify with

692
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,600
Speaker 1: where you come from and can you make everybody happy

693
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 1: if I'm like at work all the time, but then

694
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 1: I need to be home and do this thing with

695
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 1: my family, and then I also need to be supporting

696
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: all my friends and then also like having a skincare routine.

697
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 2: God, Like what do I know?

698
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 1: Like I just I think it's a lot we put

699
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 1: But I would argue that we are the people that

700
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: put the most pressure on ourselves, right like your idea

701
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 1: to your whole conversation that you were having with each other,

702
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 1: but definitely also internally, can we leave this job?

703
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think it's pressure we put on ourselves.

704
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 3: In terms of ambition, I think there's still a lot

705
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 3: of pressure, particularly on women. You know, we're only two

706
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 3: generations away from the nineteen fifties housewife around being the

707
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 3: head of the household. That may be for your specific situation,

708
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 3: being the emotional caretaker, being ambitious but not too ambitious,

709
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 3: you know, all of there's a lot of labels that

710
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 3: we have been forced to wear. And I like in

711
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 3: being a woman now to when you get more responsibility work,

712
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 3: but you don't get a promotion or a salary increase,

713
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 3: Like we still are kind of expected to do a

714
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 3: like fulfill a lot of those roles. But at the

715
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 3: same time, and that's where you can have it all

716
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 3: is misleading and not Also maybe I don't want what

717
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 3: having it all means that might be a family, and

718
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 3: I don't actually want a family. We're redefining that right

719
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 3: now in this current environment, and that's why It's been

720
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 3: really an honor to be able to reflect that nuance

721
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 3: and that evolution and that self reflection every single day

722
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 3: through our products with our community.

723
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 1: Quick break from today's episode to give my sponsor, Athletic

724
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: Greens a little bit of love. By now, we're well

725
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 1: into the new year and some of us are definitely

726
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 1: reevaluating those goals we set on January first.

727
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 2: One thing's for sure.

728
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Speaker 1: If you want to focus more on your health in

729
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730
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731
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:18,040
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732
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,440
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733
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:26,920
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734
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,080
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735
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736
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,719
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737
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738
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:43,239
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739
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:44,640
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740
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:46,239
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741
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 1: Again, that's Athleticgreens dot com slash hurdle.

742
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 2: Let's get back to it.

743
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 1: I'm back here sitting with Naomi and my they are

744
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 1: the co founders of shot. Okay, so give me a

745
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 1: timeline of when you're still at do something.

746
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:12,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was twenty fourteen, we watched the prototype, twenty fifteen,

747
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:14,240
Speaker 3: when we watched a prototype in August.

748
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, we launched the prototype in twenty fifteen and at

749
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 4: the end of the year, and then a few months

750
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 4: later gave our notice. We gave three months notice astres Yeah,

751
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:28,800
Speaker 4: a trivestor of notice.

752
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 3: I'm just like.

753
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: I mean, that's very nice of you, but I kind

754
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 1: of feel like sometimes what happens and why two weeks

755
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 1: is a good amount of time typically speaking, is like

756
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: they want you to help so you don't mess up

757
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 1: and leave them empty handed.

758
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:44,320
Speaker 2: But then you're also kind of one foot out the door.

759
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 2: So three months with one foot out the door.

760
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,720
Speaker 4: We will it is a long time. Kind of generally

761
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 4: very nice of it. Yeah, it generally wouldn't say that's

762
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,760
Speaker 4: the best practice. I think for us, we were both

763
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 4: being respectful and thoughtful about, you know, projects that we

764
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 4: had in teams that we led, and also we raised

765
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 4: around a funding on the side and actual needed that

766
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:01,400
Speaker 4: time to be able to do that.

767
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 3: So yeah, we didn't know that that was a weird thing,

768
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:07,400
Speaker 3: which I'm glad that we didn't know before because it was,

769
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 3: oh my gosh, blessed to be nice pitches in at

770
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,320
Speaker 3: atm banks, like over the phone, like pulling up our.

771
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,359
Speaker 4: Computers and Google docs, and it was a lot of

772
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,319
Speaker 4: just like just time management for sure, and learning how

773
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:25,320
Speaker 4: to run our product as well as the fundraising process

774
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:27,839
Speaker 4: as well as you know, be fully there when we're

775
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,479
Speaker 4: there at our jobs. But generally that that's when really

776
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 4: things kicked off, was you know. Of course, we could

777
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 4: have started Shine and not raise VC funding. I don't

778
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 4: recommend it for everyone, but I think for us, we

779
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 4: knew the scale at which.

780
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 3: We wanted to have an impact and what we wanted

781
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 3: that to look like.

782
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,239
Speaker 4: So we very intentionally went after VC funding not knowing

783
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:48,320
Speaker 4: much at all and had incredible support from some advisors

784
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 4: that we tapped really early on. But from there we

785
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 4: raised our first round of funding and use that funding

786
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,839
Speaker 4: to really uh take the product and find what's called

787
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 4: product market fit. So that's me when you that means

788
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 4: when you have a product that selves a very specific

789
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 4: need for a very specific market at the right time,

790
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:05,879
Speaker 4: and they could be solving that need in other ways.

791
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 4: They could be hacking it. Like we heard a lot

792
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 4: of people would create these Instagram accounts of like positive

793
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 4: quotes for themselves and they would log out of their

794
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 4: own Instagram so they could have a place in the

795
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:16,800
Speaker 4: morning to like start the day on a good foot

796
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 4: to you know, just compiling different routines their class pass

797
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 4: and then they would vision board after and you know,

798
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:25,800
Speaker 4: the things that we do to take care of ourselves

799
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 4: and how that ranged was very much happening then, and

800
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:30,759
Speaker 4: that's essentially what you want is you want to be

801
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 4: able to solve that problem in a new way, in

802
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 4: a more efficient way for people at the right time.

803
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 3: So we grew the team to four in.

804
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 4: Our first year, which is really exciting, went to a

805
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,960
Speaker 4: wee work and I'll never forget that first day when

806
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,279
Speaker 4: we actually took a couple of fridays off during that

807
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 4: three month spam and one of the fridays we used

808
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:52,760
Speaker 4: to look for office space, which was really really cool

809
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:56,759
Speaker 4: because there is something about side hustling that is just

810
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 4: so invigorating and incredible, and it still doesn't quite feel

811
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 4: real necessarily unless you give yourself some sense of like,

812
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:05,880
Speaker 4: you know, just making this feel validated, right, whether that's

813
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 4: like you know, Instagram subscribers or just feedback that like

814
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 4: really hits you. But for us, I think what the

815
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 4: day it really hit us was when you know, you

816
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 4: got off the train and I was waiting there with

817
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,839
Speaker 4: coffee by the way work, like, holy crap, we're about

818
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 4: to look at our first potentially our office space.

819
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 2: And you had your you were still your other job

820
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 2: at the time.

821
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:29,320
Speaker 3: We were, but we had we'd given them notice. Yeah, yeah, wow,

822
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:30,359
Speaker 3: it was. It was.

823
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 2: It was.

824
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 3: It was a really cool time because you actually we

825
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 3: felt this like growth. You know, there's it's a particular

826
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 3: experience to be able to feel such rapid growth in

827
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 3: a finite amount of time in terms of how uncomfortable

828
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 3: we were because we were doing something that we It

829
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 3: was this interesting mix of it felt it couldn't feel

830
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 3: more authentic, like, oh, this is what I've I've always

831
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 3: been like building towards us, I just didn't know it,

832
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 3: and finding each other, the conversations that we would have,

833
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 3: the things that pained us about things that we would

834
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:07,839
Speaker 3: see happening in the world, all of this was kind

835
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 3: of building to Shine and then oh.

836
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 2: My gosh, what is this.

837
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,880
Speaker 3: This is so new and different and like like just

838
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 3: vastly you know, different than a day to day job

839
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 3: where someone else is in charge of making sure everything

840
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 3: lights get kept on and all this. So it's just

841
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:28,479
Speaker 3: a ton of growth and uncomfortability in a very short

842
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 3: amount of time that we will always be grateful for

843
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 3: and we become a different company at every stage. But

844
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 3: there's nothing like that those first few months of Asmara

845
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 3: said being like, wait, this is happening, This is happening.

846
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 2: No, I totally hear you, So what are you building

847
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:44,240
Speaker 2: at that time?

848
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 3: At that time, it was one product that we were offering,

849
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 3: which was the prototype, which we still offer. It's the

850
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 3: free product of Shine Text. So every single morning, just

851
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 3: like you were talking about at the beginning of this,

852
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 3: you get a daily message from Shine that helps you

853
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 3: notice and really accept how you're feeling, and it feels

854
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 3: like a friend instead of a brand.

855
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 2: And that text can lead you to additional content that's

856
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:07,000
Speaker 2: on your.

857
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 3: Website exactly exactly. So we at that time it was

858
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 3: just over SMS, and then also we have the same

859
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 3: experience on Facebook Messenger and so for the first year

860
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 3: that was the product and we had raised seed round

861
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 3: God had for employees.

862
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,239
Speaker 1: And how did you know at the time that you

863
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: needed to raise money to do this?

864
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:30,360
Speaker 4: I think it very much depends on what you're doing

865
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 4: if you need to raise or not. And I think

866
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 4: this is a lot of times there's a lot of

867
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:36,839
Speaker 4: privilege in these conversations because folks talk about it as

868
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 4: if like it's a really easy to raise We see

869
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 4: here everybody should do it, and we think, again, you

870
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 4: should be really discerning about whether you need to or not.

871
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 4: In our case, there was just some hard costs that

872
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 4: we needed to cover from the cost of text messaging

873
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 4: and thinking about the roadmap that we wanted to build out,

874
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 4: and also again to the scale that we were looking

875
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 4: to grow, so we knew we weren't interested necessarily in

876
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:00,879
Speaker 4: creating a smaller media business, although I think that's really

877
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,240
Speaker 4: valuable and I think we could have a totally different

878
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:06,359
Speaker 4: life and that would be really beautiful. But for us,

879
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 4: we were more interested in what does this look like

880
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 4: at scale? We would rather build something that is really lightweight,

881
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:16,800
Speaker 4: that is simple, and that changes the lives and days

882
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 4: of millions of people. Then to maybe go deeper into

883
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 4: doing something like consulting or coaching or kind of more

884
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 4: one on one experiences, and none of those experiences are invalid,

885
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 4: but that's really what we were looking to do. So

886
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 4: that to us said, you know, we need to think

887
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 4: about what outside capital looks like. We heard about the

888
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,319
Speaker 4: solusive friends and family round concept and we asked, like

889
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 4: what does that mean, and and angel rounds, and like

890
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 4: what does it actually look like to raise funding? And

891
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 4: for us, it just made sense to go straight institutional

892
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 4: from the get go, which essentially means going from instead

893
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 4: of raising an angel round or friends and family around,

894
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:53,280
Speaker 4: going straight to the VC firms.

895
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 3: And we were incredibly lucky in many ways, and that

896
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:58,880
Speaker 3: of course, we worked hard and did a ton of pitches.

897
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:01,880
Speaker 3: You get hundreds of and it's really hard.

898
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 4: But one of the ways in which we left out

899
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 4: early on was one of our first meetings was with

900
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 4: somebody that just got it immediately. Her name is Victoria Song,

901
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 4: and she was just this incredible woman who had already

902
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,080
Speaker 4: just been thinking about what it was like to invest

903
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 4: in the qualitative self, knowing that the quantitative self has

904
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,319
Speaker 4: gotten so much attention, she'd already been looking for something

905
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 4: in this space and well where every other pitch she

906
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 4: spent maybe an hour trying to get somebody to see

907
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 4: the world is the way you see it.

908
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 3: It took us five.

909
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,839
Speaker 4: Minutes and she was like, I'm in, I'm interested. So

910
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 4: that really helped unlock the door for us and understand

911
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 4: what it looks like.

912
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:35,319
Speaker 3: To get in the space.

913
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 1: You also like throw out a woman's name, which was

914
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 1: not what I expected you to say.

915
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 3: It's not a coincidence, right, it doesn't mean that we

916
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:45,840
Speaker 3: have incredible investors. Our Series A was led by Daniel

917
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 3: Galatti of Comcast, who was one of the first conversations

918
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 3: that we had early on, and similarly he really got

919
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 3: it as women, as female founders and women of color.

920
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 3: I think it is an extra special experience where you

921
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 3: don't have to educate as well as pitch. And obviously

922
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:04,560
Speaker 3: with Victoria being a woman, there were certain things that

923
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:07,839
Speaker 3: we were while Shine is for anyone can use it,

924
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 3: like obviously we're both millennial women, and so that was

925
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:14,359
Speaker 3: our primary target and where we've resonated the most, and

926
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 3: so as a millennial woman, the stuff that we were

927
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 3: talking about, she was like, yes, yes, yes, because it

928
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 3: wasn't it wasn't a conversation of oh, actually, let me

929
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 3: go talk to my wife or I'll check out with

930
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 3: my daughter about that, which can happen a lot when you're,

931
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 3: you know, fundraising because of the lack of representation. So

932
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 3: it was no accident that Victoria played the role that

933
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 3: she did, given who she was.

934
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 1: Totally, and you just brought something up which we haven't

935
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 1: We've kind of glazed over, but we haven't talked about

936
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 1: it yet. It's that both of you being women of color,

937
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 1: how has that impacted growing your business? So, I mean,

938
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 1: I mean, there's so many challenges that you can face,

939
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 1: regardless of in the office or out of the office,

940
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:54,840
Speaker 1: but I'd love for you to talk a little bit

941
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:55,399
Speaker 1: about how.

942
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 2: That's kind of impacted your experience with Shine. Yeah.

943
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 3: I think it's impacted our business incredibly positively.

944
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:06,239
Speaker 4: In that not only is our team incredibly representative of

945
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 4: the world outside of our office and outside of even

946
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,919
Speaker 4: New York, but our membership is so most of our

947
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:15,880
Speaker 4: members are women. We over index for women of color significantly,

948
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:19,919
Speaker 4: and particularly black women, and we over index for people

949
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 4: who identify on the LGBTQ spectrum. So generally, I think

950
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:29,799
Speaker 4: being another has attracted others and has attracted just a

951
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 4: really great representation of the world in terms of our team,

952
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:36,239
Speaker 4: in terms of our membership, and I think, I mean,

953
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:38,839
Speaker 4: I talk about this all the time, but it is

954
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 4: it does often feel at the very beginning of a journey,

955
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 4: or before your journey starts and whatever it is you're

956
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 4: trying to pursue, that you not having the typical path

957
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:50,919
Speaker 4: in our example, going to business school, understanding anything about

958
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:54,920
Speaker 4: venture capital or building a business, you know, at the

959
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 4: very beginning you kind of think like, this is going

960
00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:58,840
Speaker 4: to be my achilles seel, this is going to be

961
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:00,919
Speaker 4: what holds me back because I don't have the same

962
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 4: xyz that these other people have in this industry. And

963
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:08,279
Speaker 4: we've found that the polar opposite is true and it

964
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:11,440
Speaker 4: couldn't be more wrong, and that it is our unique

965
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 4: capabilities and our unique way that we've come to this

966
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:17,319
Speaker 4: journey and our unique perspective on the world that's been

967
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:20,839
Speaker 4: shaped by our own non traditional backgrounds that has made

968
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 4: us more resilient and has made us the people that

969
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 4: we are that we couldn't be anyone else starting this

970
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 4: specific company. Is it hard in terms of what does

971
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:32,360
Speaker 4: it look like to fundraise when you're not really pitching

972
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 4: anybody that looks like you, absolutely, and I think there

973
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 4: are there's a lot of implicit bias that happens in

974
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:41,720
Speaker 4: this industry that you can't quantify, but that you certainly feel.

975
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 3: On the founder side, I'd say generally.

976
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 4: We have had a good experience in the venture capital

977
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,800
Speaker 4: community and just the startup community generally, but we certainly

978
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 4: have felt moments where you know, it would be nice

979
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 4: to feel included in more representation and seeing more people

980
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 4: that look like us, because there's certainly our moments that

981
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 4: we know that we may be held back because of that.

982
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 4: But it hasn't. It hasn't been. It's been something that's

983
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 4: made us stronger.

984
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:09,960
Speaker 3: I think over time, we and we talk a lot

985
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:12,400
Speaker 3: about yeah, it really, it really is. I think resilience

986
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:14,799
Speaker 3: has been such a theme of our journey and also

987
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 3: our community's journey, and we talk about how a lot

988
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 3: of people start companies with this concept of I was

989
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 3: just waiting for the right idea. I always knew I

990
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 3: was going to start something which is which is exciting,

991
00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 3: and there's so many amazing companies that I've spun out

992
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 3: of that. But that's one journey of entrepreneurship. The other

993
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 3: journey is this is what I've experienced. This is what

994
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 3: hurts when it doesn't feel like there's a clear answer

995
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 3: solution that the world has yet provided. And this is

996
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:45,040
Speaker 3: a role that I can play in that and that

997
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:50,400
Speaker 3: creates a much more empathetic leadership, a wider lens on

998
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 3: what everyday people are kind of going through. And for us,

999
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:57,839
Speaker 3: certainly as a company that is all around making well

1000
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:02,239
Speaker 3: being more accessible perience. Is really why we've been as

1001
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:04,759
Speaker 3: successful as we have because it's it's always we've always

1002
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:06,880
Speaker 3: stayed close to the ground like this is this is

1003
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 3: a company that we built because we wish we would

1004
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:10,920
Speaker 3: have had this and if we had had it earlier,

1005
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 3: what would that have meant for us? And for how

1006
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 3: we were talking to ourselves every day and what we were

1007
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 3: kind of like gunning for.

1008
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:19,919
Speaker 1: What kind of advice would you offer to someone who

1009
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 1: recognizes that maybe they're not being their biggest type man,

1010
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:26,479
Speaker 1: like they're not really all about the positive self talk,

1011
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,600
Speaker 1: They're not speaking to themselves in a way that really

1012
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 1: feels progressive. It's more of just a downer.

1013
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:35,319
Speaker 3: Well, this is this is advice that people talk about

1014
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 3: a lot. It might not be like completely new, but

1015
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:39,320
Speaker 3: I think it's the best advice is to talk to

1016
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:42,399
Speaker 3: yourself like a friend, like we are so good at

1017
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:45,040
Speaker 3: beating ourselves up and seeing I mean, we're actually wired

1018
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:47,239
Speaker 3: for it. It's it's part of survival where we have to

1019
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:50,000
Speaker 3: look for risk and look for the negative to survive.

1020
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 3: So it's part of our DNA, But how it's manifested

1021
00:47:53,600 --> 00:48:00,920
Speaker 3: into present day is often sad because we're spending so

1022
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 3: much time worrying that did I say the right thing?

1023
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 3: Or Oh, they're so stupid, I can't believe I did

1024
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 3: that to You're always letting people down, or these narratives

1025
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 3: that are just completely overwhelming our day that when we

1026
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:15,319
Speaker 3: look back, you know, a day later, five days later,

1027
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 3: ten years later, when you look at those moments, it

1028
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 3: was never as bad. Often often sometimes it may be,

1029
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:23,320
Speaker 3: but typically the way that you were talking to yourself

1030
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 3: in that moment was so unjustified. And then on the

1031
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 3: flip side, the way that we look at other people

1032
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 3: and the way that we elevate our friends and people

1033
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:35,080
Speaker 3: that we adore and our team members comes like with

1034
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 3: so much benefit of the doubt, like absolute benefit of

1035
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 3: the doubt, but we very rarely do that to ourselves.

1036
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 3: It's a practice that is a daily practice. It's not

1037
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:45,920
Speaker 3: this like finite Okay, I did it, and this is

1038
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 3: now how I talk to myself. At least for me,

1039
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:50,040
Speaker 3: it's a daily practice and some days I'm better at

1040
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 3: it than others. And truly, what has helped, and this

1041
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:54,279
Speaker 3: was a big part of our origin story, was having

1042
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 3: a person that helps you see yourself, helps reflect that

1043
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:00,399
Speaker 3: that lens that is outside of yourself to say, well,

1044
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:03,919
Speaker 3: this is actually how I see you. That that cuts

1045
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 3: off those conversations.

1046
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 1: We mentioned team members, So how many team members does

1047
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:13,359
Speaker 1: Shine have now we're fifteen fifteen team members. And what

1048
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:15,759
Speaker 1: was it like for you when you finally did pull

1049
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:18,200
Speaker 1: the trigger on your first office space, because I mean

1050
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:19,880
Speaker 1: a lot has happened since then for sure.

1051
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean was it a we work?

1052
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:24,799
Speaker 3: Yeah? Of course, our very first office space was a

1053
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:26,840
Speaker 3: we work and we actually stayed in we work. We

1054
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:29,799
Speaker 3: went to we scaled through four different offices and we

1055
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 3: work and we really appreciated the team there. The culture

1056
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:36,759
Speaker 3: kind of seeps into your own culture in a really

1057
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 3: beautiful way. In that, particularly when you're a small team

1058
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:43,759
Speaker 3: and you're convincing people to come work for you, you.

1059
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:44,360
Speaker 4: Don't have a ton, you know, to show them we

1060
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:46,919
Speaker 4: didn't have a brick and mortar office of our own,

1061
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:48,920
Speaker 4: and so being able to walk them by.

1062
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:50,960
Speaker 3: Like the snack bar and the coffee and you know,

1063
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:54,920
Speaker 3: Renee and barista like just you know, it very much

1064
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 3: created this warm environment that was really helpful. And then

1065
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:01,279
Speaker 3: we we ended up getting to a place where we

1066
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:03,359
Speaker 3: needed to find our own brick and mortar space, and

1067
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 3: that I think was still one of the scariest decisions

1068
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 3: for us because it was we hadn't thought about it

1069
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:11,319
Speaker 3: at the time until it came time to sign the lease,

1070
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:13,719
Speaker 3: but it was the biggest long term commitment we'd ever

1071
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:16,359
Speaker 3: made for the company. Yeah, you're signing in New York,

1072
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:18,279
Speaker 3: it's anywhere from a five to ten year lease. We

1073
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:20,520
Speaker 3: left out on a three year lease, but it's still

1074
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:23,400
Speaker 3: a significant commitment, a significant amount of money that you're

1075
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:27,320
Speaker 3: projecting out into the future. And every at every step

1076
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 3: where you do have to make a commitment to yourself,

1077
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:31,799
Speaker 3: it really does just reaffirm self belief. And I think

1078
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:33,839
Speaker 3: to your point of being that inner critic and how

1079
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:36,960
Speaker 3: do you stop yourself in those moments is first and

1080
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:40,239
Speaker 3: foremost like recognizing that that's a human thing, And so

1081
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:43,640
Speaker 3: what often happens is we like the critic then spirals

1082
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:45,239
Speaker 3: and says, you know, we say like, oh, we don't

1083
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 3: deserve our first office, like we're too early, we shouldn't

1084
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 3: have that. And then you go, why are you thinking?

1085
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 3: Like what's wrong with you? You know, other founders probably

1086
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 3: don't think like that.

1087
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 4: Spiral, Yeah, you're like, I'm not supposed to be this way, right.

1088
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:00,359
Speaker 4: So I think it very much relates in that every

1089
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:04,040
Speaker 4: step at which you can give yourself validation, that will happen.

1090
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 4: You may question yourself, you may doubt yourself, and that

1091
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:10,120
Speaker 4: is normal. That is a part of the human experience.

1092
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:10,920
Speaker 2: And maybe you.

1093
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:13,360
Speaker 4: Have a lot of confidence that you don't question yourself, great,

1094
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 4: but most people do. And when you do, I think

1095
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 4: it's just checking yourself, whether you have somebody else, whether

1096
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:21,440
Speaker 4: you're using shine, but just generally just checking yourself and

1097
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:23,640
Speaker 4: saying like it's okay for me to doubt this, and

1098
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 4: let me investigate why am.

1099
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 3: I doubting this? Like what does that mean? But it

1100
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 3: doesn't necessarily mean that you're weird or that there's anything.

1101
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,759
Speaker 1: Wrong with you. You're dishing out inspiration to a lot

1102
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:35,280
Speaker 1: of people, a lot of the time through your product.

1103
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 1: Who are the people that inspire you?

1104
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:44,240
Speaker 4: We both talk a lot about our grandmothers. We both

1105
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:49,240
Speaker 4: had just really just incredible strong women in our lives

1106
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:52,359
Speaker 4: at a very young age who gave us so many

1107
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 4: great qualities, and particularly I think the qualities that separately

1108
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 4: in our lives that we valued growing up and what

1109
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 4: we identif with when we met each other was this

1110
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:05,839
Speaker 4: idea of somebody who can be direct and strong and

1111
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:09,240
Speaker 4: a force, but can also be compassionate and kind and warm.

1112
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 4: And I think growing up with an example of what

1113
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:15,279
Speaker 4: that looks like and always striving towards that, and then

1114
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:17,239
Speaker 4: you know, being a different work environment and maybe not

1115
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:20,360
Speaker 4: necessarily always seeing that at the top, but certainly seeing

1116
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:23,720
Speaker 4: it and many many different types of people has always

1117
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:26,200
Speaker 4: kind of inspired us to want to become those leaders

1118
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 4: and create those examples.

1119
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:32,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, Grandma great same. Yeah.

1120
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:36,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, we both had really amazing grandmothers. Yeah, and it's

1121
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:39,040
Speaker 3: it's interesting to think about how strong they were to

1122
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:41,520
Speaker 3: us and the generation that they were part of, and

1123
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 3: how much harder it was to stand out and be

1124
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:50,359
Speaker 3: independent in the environment that they were, you know, surviving in. Yeah,

1125
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:53,239
Speaker 3: I have a tattoo from my grandma she probably hates

1126
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 3: that I have a tattoo of a quote from her.

1127
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 3: She'd be like, what, but it's pretty as this pretty does,

1128
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 3: which is like you're only as beautiful as your actions.

1129
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:03,120
Speaker 3: And she would say that to us like all the time,

1130
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 3: and it's it's really simple. But now there's so much

1131
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 3: more conversation about, you know, everything around what it means

1132
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:12,359
Speaker 3: to like the experience of being a woman and identifying

1133
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 3: with like the physical you know, objectification of women, all

1134
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:19,080
Speaker 3: these very very like kind of deep layered elements. But

1135
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:21,920
Speaker 3: it was cool to be so young and actually, you know,

1136
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 3: just hear her talk about like beauty isn't about It's

1137
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:27,480
Speaker 3: not about like doesn't matter how beautiful you are, it's

1138
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:30,920
Speaker 3: what are you doing? Like what's your character? Thing is

1139
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:33,000
Speaker 3: like beautiful from the inside.

1140
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:34,000
Speaker 2: Totally totally.

1141
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 1: I've got to ask what makes the two of you

1142
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:41,120
Speaker 1: different that actually strengthens the two of you as co founders.

1143
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:44,319
Speaker 4: I think there's there's a healthy amount of things, Like

1144
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:46,440
Speaker 4: when we first started, there's so much obviously that we

1145
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:48,240
Speaker 4: talk about and then we know is really similar.

1146
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:50,239
Speaker 3: But we do have a lot of things that make

1147
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:50,760
Speaker 3: us different.

1148
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:52,880
Speaker 4: And when one of them being I'm a little bit

1149
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:55,719
Speaker 4: more introverted me means a little bit more extroverted, although.

1150
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 3: We both we both need that downtime, especially in this lifestyle.

1151
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:04,600
Speaker 3: I think I am somebody who doesn't necessarily outwardly express

1152
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:08,520
Speaker 3: love in a very like obvious way.

1153
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:12,319
Speaker 4: And you know, while we have shared values, I think

1154
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:16,360
Speaker 4: how we express ourselves and our energy and where we

1155
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:17,840
Speaker 4: get that from is very different.

1156
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:20,600
Speaker 3: And that it's been really cool because we've been able

1157
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:23,600
Speaker 3: to just find balance in that.

1158
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:27,800
Speaker 4: Like we were incredible, incredible partners and I mean, Naomi

1159
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:32,000
Speaker 4: is one of the most brilliant people I've ever worked with,

1160
00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:35,399
Speaker 4: and is also so expressive in a way that has

1161
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 4: locked partnerships and VC funding and also gotten great hires

1162
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:43,759
Speaker 4: and elevates our culture. And I think just like being

1163
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:46,839
Speaker 4: able to sometimes like be inward when when she can

1164
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:49,480
Speaker 4: be more outward and vice versa, it just has a

1165
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 4: lot us to have a really nice balance.

1166
00:54:51,080 --> 00:54:55,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I agree. I think Mara has taught me

1167
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:59,239
Speaker 3: so much around thoughtfulness. Like I tend to get I

1168
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:02,240
Speaker 3: just get like excited, quickly respond and it's there's there's

1169
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:06,239
Speaker 3: prose to that that are that are fine. But Mara

1170
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:11,320
Speaker 3: is so thoughtful and she's so able to take the

1171
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:13,680
Speaker 3: step back and kind of like bottom line things and

1172
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:17,320
Speaker 3: see where there's like risk and opportunity. And she's incredibly strategic.

1173
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:22,680
Speaker 3: And there's so much around, I think, particularly women, feeling

1174
00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:27,000
Speaker 3: pressured to always like answer and please and respond. And

1175
00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:30,000
Speaker 3: she's taught me a lot around just the power of

1176
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:32,920
Speaker 3: like taking taking a moment to like process things and

1177
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 3: not having to like just jump into for the sake

1178
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:37,840
Speaker 3: of jumping in. And the result is she as a

1179
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:41,319
Speaker 3: leader sees things and questions things that I would have

1180
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:45,319
Speaker 3: totally missed. And it's that level of thoughtfulness and strategic

1181
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:48,200
Speaker 3: thinking that that I've learned just a ton from and

1182
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:52,520
Speaker 3: you know, makes the company what it is. I love you.

1183
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:57,640
Speaker 2: I'm just sitting in on this the three of us

1184
00:55:57,640 --> 00:55:58,279
Speaker 2: in this booth and.

1185
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:00,839
Speaker 3: Setting, and it's like really sweet.

1186
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:04,959
Speaker 2: It's fine, that's fine, Okay, we're winding down.

1187
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:05,440
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1188
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:09,280
Speaker 1: The final question I ask on every episode of Hurdle

1189
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:12,200
Speaker 1: is if you have the opportunity right now to offer

1190
00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:15,399
Speaker 1: yourself a piece of advice, perhaps when you're both at

1191
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:18,239
Speaker 1: do something and you're really busy all the time, you're

1192
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:20,920
Speaker 1: working constantly, you're wondering, how do I level up? How

1193
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:22,759
Speaker 1: do I get a raise? Am I doing the right thing.

1194
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:25,160
Speaker 1: Should I start this company? What kind of advice would

1195
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:26,600
Speaker 1: you offer yourself at that time?

1196
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:27,800
Speaker 2: Looking back on it now.

1197
00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:31,880
Speaker 4: I would definitely tell myself to know my power, and

1198
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:34,640
Speaker 4: that a lot of times we feel that someone else

1199
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:37,440
Speaker 4: has to give us power, or that our version of

1200
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:39,680
Speaker 4: power has to be reflected in other people, and we

1201
00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:41,400
Speaker 4: can point to it and be like, that's me, I

1202
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:42,480
Speaker 4: should just be like them.

1203
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:48,360
Speaker 3: But your experience, who you are, your struggles, your triumphs,

1204
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:51,120
Speaker 3: your weird path has made you who you are, and

1205
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:53,839
Speaker 3: there is so much power in that, if nothing else,

1206
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:55,439
Speaker 3: to be able to share that so that other people

1207
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:57,920
Speaker 3: can relate to it. But clearly there's a lot of

1208
00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:00,719
Speaker 3: else as well. I love that.

1209
00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:01,480
Speaker 2: What about you?

1210
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:06,880
Speaker 3: My advice would be, you know you should try this

1211
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:09,239
Speaker 3: like you like you kind of know. There's there's a

1212
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:12,879
Speaker 3: lot of times in life when most of the time

1213
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:14,399
Speaker 3: we actually know the answer. We know that we want

1214
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:15,759
Speaker 3: to do something. We know we want to let go

1215
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:17,600
Speaker 3: of something, we want to leave a relationship, or we

1216
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:20,040
Speaker 3: want to try something new or whatever it may be.

1217
00:57:20,120 --> 00:57:23,400
Speaker 3: Like our gut is so strong for a reason. The

1218
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:26,200
Speaker 3: number one reason we often don't do it, maybe other

1219
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:29,200
Speaker 3: than circumstances is fear. It's just fear of the unknown,

1220
00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:32,880
Speaker 3: fear of it working out, or just fear of not

1221
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:34,840
Speaker 3: being good at not being able to do it. And

1222
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:36,680
Speaker 3: we knew, we knew that we wanted to do this,

1223
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 3: and so just kind of like listening to that intuition

1224
00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:44,919
Speaker 3: and and you know, taking the risk and just saying like, yeah,

1225
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:47,000
Speaker 3: you already know that this is something you want to do.

1226
00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 2: I love it.

1227
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:50,120
Speaker 1: Period.

1228
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:52,640
Speaker 2: Thanks guys, You guys are the best. Thanks so much

1229
00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:53,640
Speaker 2: for sitting down with me.

1230
00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:56,320
Speaker 3: Having family.

1231
00:57:56,440 --> 00:57:58,760
Speaker 1: Oh man, please take a moment to leave a quick

1232
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:01,760
Speaker 1: review by clicking a line with the description to this episode.

1233
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:05,480
Speaker 1: Do it right now. We all face multiple hurdles in life.

1234
00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:07,400
Speaker 1: I want to hear about yours. Reach out to me

1235
00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:10,400
Speaker 1: at Emily at Hurdle dot us. Connect with the podcast

1236
00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:15,200
Speaker 1: on Instagram and Twitter at Hurdle Podcast. Ladies, Where do

1237
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:16,120
Speaker 1: they find Shine?

1238
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:17,280
Speaker 2: Where do they find you?

1239
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:18,760
Speaker 3: Text?

1240
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:23,439
Speaker 4: Head to www dot Shine text dot com and check

1241
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:25,320
Speaker 4: us out. You can also download Shine in the App

1242
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:26,880
Speaker 4: Store or on Google Play.

1243
00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:29,800
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, what about you, guys? You on social media?

1244
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:34,480
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it's you know, it's over nice.

1245
00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:40,720
Speaker 1: I am at Emily a body Another hurdle conquered.

1246
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:42,120
Speaker 2: Catch you guys next time.