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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Law with June Brussel from Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 1: Tyler Scaggs taking them out for the Angels. Tyler skaggs

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Speaker 1: career was cut short. The seven year old standout picture

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Speaker 1: for the Los Angeles Angels died from an overdose in

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Speaker 1: a Dallas hotel room. In Following an eight day trial,

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Speaker 1: a jury took only ninety minutes to convict former Angels

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Speaker 1: communications director Eric Kaye of providing Scaggs with the drugs

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Speaker 1: that led to his death. Here's Kay's attorney, Reagan Winn.

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Speaker 1: This is a tragedy all the way around. Eric Kaye

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Speaker 1: is getting ready to do minimum twenty years in federal

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Speaker 1: contentiary and it goes up from there and Tyler Scaggs

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Speaker 1: is gone, and man, it's a tragedy. There's no winners.

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Speaker 1: Joining me is Harry Nelson of Nelson Hardeman, author of

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Speaker 1: the United States of Opioids. Harry kay is not what

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Speaker 1: we think of as a drug deal learned, No, definitely not.

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Speaker 1: He was the former communications director of the Angels. He

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Speaker 1: was a guy who was very connected to multiple players

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Speaker 1: on the team, and even when he wasn't in this

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Speaker 1: formal communication director position anymore, he was really kind of

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Speaker 1: a gopher who was helping players out when they had

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Speaker 1: different needs. Certainly not a classic what we think of

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Speaker 1: when we think of a drug dealer. Did Skaggs die

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Speaker 1: not because he was snorting oxycodon but because the oxycodon

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Speaker 1: was fake? They were counterfeit oxycodon pans? Correct? Basically, when

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Speaker 1: ri Ka went out and got pills that he thought

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Speaker 1: were actual codons, they were in fact counterfeit sent old

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Speaker 1: lace pills that were much much more powerful, the dosing

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Speaker 1: was much much higher and much more dangerous, and then

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Speaker 1: real oxycodons, And so he unwittingly gave Tyler Skaggs pills

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Speaker 1: that they both mistook because they had the imprint of

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Speaker 1: the M thirty and the right color to look like

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Speaker 1: thirty milligram oxtic on. And it's fantanel that's been responsible

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Speaker 1: or linked to the deaths of Prince and Tom Patty?

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Speaker 1: Is it most connected with overdose deaths the vast majority

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Speaker 1: of the death I think that the numbers spends on

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Speaker 1: the reason of the country, but it's probably three quarters,

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Speaker 1: if not higher, any percent plus of death are from

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Speaker 1: these counterfeit pills, which we call sent in all. It's

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Speaker 1: actually the whole toxic mix of related synthetic compounds. Tell

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Speaker 1: us what the trial revealed about the culture of drug

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Speaker 1: use in the Los Angeles Angels clubhouse. There were testimony

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Speaker 1: from multiple players living like Matt Harvey, for example, that

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Speaker 1: they had been using opioid pain pills for years, and

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Speaker 1: it sounded like in most cases these were players who

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Speaker 1: were playing through injuries and they were actually helped for

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Speaker 1: whatever the short term need was. It also was clear

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Speaker 1: there was a widespread awareness that Kay was doing this

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Speaker 1: for lots of players, and these players had problems. Tyler

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Speaker 1: Sage brothers testified tried to help Tyler get off of

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Speaker 1: the pills. Skaggs mother testified that he had tried to

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Speaker 1: quit several times. And so the thing that came across

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Speaker 1: to me out of the trial was that there were

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Speaker 1: no secrets. This was not a surprise. Jeff Kay was not,

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Speaker 1: you know, some evil menace. He was really embedded into

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Speaker 1: the life of the Angels team, as was the youth

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Speaker 1: and the chronic need for pain management that these pills served.

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Speaker 1: I want to point out that the Angels have said

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Speaker 1: they weren't aware of any employees providing opioids to players

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Speaker 1: or that Skaggs was using them. Now Kay was also

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Speaker 1: hooked on opioid pain pills and also tried to kick them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the sad irony of this case is that Jeff Kay

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Speaker 1: was also a victim. The only difference thing that he

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Speaker 1: didn't pay with his life as Tyler Skaggs did. Is

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Speaker 1: there any indication that this is still going on in clubhouses? Oh?

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Speaker 1: I believe this is still a problem happening throughout baseball

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Speaker 1: and other professional sports. About ten fifteen years we saw

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Speaker 1: the d e A do an intensive audit of multiple

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Speaker 1: professional teams, baseball teams, the football team and really cracking

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Speaker 1: down on the doctors who at the time back then,

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Speaker 1: if we go back to the early two thousands, were

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Speaker 1: supplying players. And so what happened is we essentially took

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Speaker 1: away the legal supply because the doctors were being accused

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Speaker 1: and we're afraid of losing their licenses by making pills

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Speaker 1: easily available, and instead it was replaced largely with a

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Speaker 1: secretive network. And the only difference was that Jeff k

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Speaker 1: had the misfortune to get counterfeit pills. And my senses

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Speaker 1: that on most teams, the illegal trafficking that's going on

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Speaker 1: is with pharmaceutical grade oxycodon and other pills. But I

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Speaker 1: personally believe, and this is just anecdotals from what I've

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Speaker 1: heard from people associated with various teams and from occasional

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Speaker 1: calls that I get as a lawyer, is that this

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Speaker 1: was still very much a problem throughout professional sports. So

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Speaker 1: Major League Baseball does have a treatment program policy for

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Speaker 1: for opio had used disorder, doesn't it? It does. The

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Speaker 1: problem is that first, there's a lot of shame attached

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Speaker 1: to admitting that you have a problem publicly. That is

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Speaker 1: a danger to guys who are stressed out in a

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Speaker 1: sense when the financial lottery by making Major League Baseball

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Speaker 1: and don't necessarily want to put it in jeopardy by

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Speaker 1: admitting they have a problem. And the other reality is

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Speaker 1: that these players are under enormous physical stress with the

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty two games season in baseball, with the

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Speaker 1: intensity in all professional sports, with the demands on them,

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Speaker 1: and I think there's really a gap actually in medical

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Speaker 1: care to acknowledge that we are asking these guys to

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Speaker 1: play and perform for fans, for their teams under enormous stress,

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Speaker 1: with a different standard of pain medicine that we have

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Speaker 1: to somehow find a way to dread the needle of

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Speaker 1: keeping them physically safe, but acknowledging that they are putting

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Speaker 1: their bodies under a stress that that most of us

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Speaker 1: couldn't possibly endure for even you know, the shortest period

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Speaker 1: of time. And is there any indication that Major League

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Speaker 1: Baseball is paying attention to that problem? You know, I've

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Speaker 1: had conversations with folks associated with scared in Baseball, their

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Speaker 1: medical directors. I think there's awareness that there's a problem,

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Speaker 1: but I don't think that they are anywhere near a solution.

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Speaker 1: The positive is that this case was a huge wake

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Speaker 1: up the challenges that we have, in some ways an

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Speaker 1: intractable problem of addressing the physical demands on these players.

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Speaker 1: I do think that there is progress being made in

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Speaker 1: reducing the shame and having players coming out and talking

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Speaker 1: about the issues they've had does help the culture in

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Speaker 1: the league and makes it easier for other people to

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Speaker 1: step forward. But I think we have a long way

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Speaker 1: to go. Speaking of coming forward, for former teammates of

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Speaker 1: Skags testified basically that they knew Skags to gopioids, admitted

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Speaker 1: to taking drugs themselves, and that k had been their supplier.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned Matt Harvey. He was given immunity to testify

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Speaker 1: so that he can't be prosecuted. But if he were

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Speaker 1: to be signed by a team, let's say, he could

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Speaker 1: immediately be suspended for what he admitted on the stand.

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Speaker 1: So is there a built in reason for players not

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Speaker 1: to come forward. Yeah, Matt Harvey, the late career player

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Speaker 1: who I think had to have made a decision that

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Speaker 1: testifying in this case could essentially lead to suspension and

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Speaker 1: certainly was going to make him less attractive. But you know,

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Speaker 1: he's the guy who has had a great career. He

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Speaker 1: was on the cover of Sports Illustrated, right, he was

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Speaker 1: the starting pitcher for an All Star Game. I think

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Speaker 1: he made a decision when he testified that he was

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Speaker 1: prepared that this might be the end of his career. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: I think players who are still have more good years

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Speaker 1: ahead of them. We're not, and in general, are not

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Speaker 1: going to be willing to talk openly in the way

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Speaker 1: that he did. The defense was that they were fellow addicts,

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Speaker 1: and the agreement was that Scaggs would pay for their

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Speaker 1: drugs and k would handle the transactions. And the defense

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Speaker 1: also made an argument that ultimately scaggs death, you know

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Speaker 1: the responsibility was with the picture himself, but none of

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Speaker 1: that seemed to work for the jury. Look, I think, unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: the easiest way to understand this story, even though I

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Speaker 1: think it's kind of balt and it's missing the bigger picture,

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Speaker 1: was a paint K as some kind of a villain.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's always easy for juries, frankly, for everybody,

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Speaker 1: for law enforcement, for families who are suffering, to look

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Speaker 1: for a bad guy, and so Kay provided that. But

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Speaker 1: I think the broader picture that was missed by the

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Speaker 1: way that this case and so many cases are tried,

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Speaker 1: is just this tragic situation that's across America, right, that

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Speaker 1: this is really part of American life. We had over

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Speaker 1: a hundred thousands Americans die of similar deaths, and there

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Speaker 1: are so many more people like Jeff K who have

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Speaker 1: a problem themselves that leads them into sharing the pills.

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Speaker 1: And I think the more that we kind of villainize

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Speaker 1: people like him and treat them as the problem, we're

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Speaker 1: missing the deeper questions about why there aren't better medical

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Speaker 1: solutions for so many people in pains, about why people

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Speaker 1: feel so isolated in taking these drugs, and about why

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Speaker 1: why people are willing to take these risks. There's something

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Speaker 1: to me that's very broken in our system and our

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Speaker 1: society and our health care that's leading to these desks

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Speaker 1: and focusing all of our mention on what a bad

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Speaker 1: guy Jeff kay is kind of gives us an out

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Speaker 1: from really confronting those questions. Do criminal trials like these

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Speaker 1: really deter anyone from using opioids? I don't think they

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Speaker 1: do very much at all. I think the reality is

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Speaker 1: that we have a culture, we have a fundamental problem

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Speaker 1: of people who are taking risks with these pills because

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Speaker 1: they feel a sense of hopelessness, because they are alone

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Speaker 1: in the problems they're dealing with, and because of a

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Speaker 1: lot of pain. Sometimes it's physical pain, as I think

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Speaker 1: it was for Tyler Scags, and sometimes it's emotional and

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Speaker 1: mental pain, and those problems are what's really driving this crisis.

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Speaker 1: And the trials like this are going to call attention,

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Speaker 1: but they're not changing anyone's behavior, like, in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: until we start getting at those roots pauses, we're not

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Speaker 1: gonna see anything other than more overdose deaths year over year.

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Speaker 1: The Stags family has a civil lawsuit pending against the

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Speaker 1: Angels for negligence. Does that seem like the uphill battle

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Speaker 1: proving that they were negligent. It's an in question what

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Speaker 1: the responsibilities of the team, you know word, did the

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Speaker 1: team have a duty to keep you know, how much

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Speaker 1: did officials in the team know who saw this and

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Speaker 1: failed to see what happened. Frankly, I haven't followed the

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Speaker 1: evidence coming out in that case closely. I think that

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Speaker 1: case will be settled, and I do think that the

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Speaker 1: Angels will be afraid to let a jury decide whether

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Speaker 1: they had any responsibility, because there's no way that this

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Speaker 1: went on for so long with so many people in

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Speaker 1: the team without somebody noticing what was going on. And

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Speaker 1: it's a fair question to ask what the teams knew,

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Speaker 1: what they should have done, what they failed to do.

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Speaker 1: And so I suspect we're going to see that case

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Speaker 1: settled long before it gets the trial. Is this the

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Speaker 1: last case of this kind that we're likely to see? No,

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Speaker 1: I think we're gonna keep seeing these cases where we

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Speaker 1: go after the sort of guy who who carried the

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Speaker 1: last mile in this problem. But my hope is that

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Speaker 1: the more that people are aware that even high profile

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Speaker 1: athletes who appear to be the picture of success are

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Speaker 1: suffering that the more that will actually focus attention and

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Speaker 1: on the overdose crisis. I think the pandemic has been

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a distraction, understandably, but we're coming

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Speaker 1: out of the pandemic with a overdose problem that's worse

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Speaker 1: than ever, and my hope is that will actually start

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Speaker 1: to focus more public attention, more government attention on real solutions.

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Speaker 1: Thanks Harry, that's Harry Nelson of Nelson Hardeman. A federal

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Speaker 1: judge has ruled that former President Donald Trump must face

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Speaker 1: lawsuits accusing him of inciding the January six US Capital Insurrection.

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Speaker 1: DC Federal Judge on Mitt Meta issued US sweeping one

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Speaker 1: D twelve page opinion denying Trump's motions to dismiss three lawsuits.

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Speaker 1: Joining me is Jennifer Rogers, an adjunct professor at m

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Speaker 1: y U Law School. So he called this a one

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Speaker 1: of a kind case. How did he handle Trump's claims

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Speaker 1: of presidential immunity? I thought judge Metics opinion was terrific.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it was comprehensive, it was thorough. He went

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Speaker 1: through all of the arguments, and particularly with respect to

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Speaker 1: the absolute immunity argument, he did a great job of

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Speaker 1: dismantling all of Trump's arguments and one by one, but

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Speaker 1: without being you know, overly heavy handed or sarcastic about it.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about why he said that the president

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Speaker 1: doesn't have immunity here. So the issue comes down to

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Speaker 1: whether what he said, what Trump said on January six,

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Speaker 1: is an official act or not. So when a president speaks,

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Speaker 1: he obviously speaks in large part about presidential issues, about

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Speaker 1: policy matters, about things happening in the country. But just

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Speaker 1: because as the president speaking, it doesn't have to be

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Speaker 1: something that's officially part of the presidency. And so that's

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Speaker 1: what JUDGMENTO was trying to parse. When former President Trump

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Speaker 1: was out there telling the people at that rally to

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Speaker 1: march to the capital to take the country back to

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Speaker 1: stop Congress in what they were doing, was he acting

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Speaker 1: as the president or was he acting on his own

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Speaker 1: personal behalf as opposed to as the president. So that's

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Speaker 1: really what the judge was thinking about, and ultimately he

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Speaker 1: concluded that he was not acting in an official presidential capacity,

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Speaker 1: but in fact in his own personal capacity, and that's

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Speaker 1: why he did not have immunity. He used a strange

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Speaker 1: analogy at one point, well, at least I consider it

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Speaker 1: a little strange that President Trump's January six rally speech

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Speaker 1: was akin to telling an excited mob that corn dealers

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Speaker 1: starved the poor in front of the corn dealer's home. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's really trying to to get to the legal standards

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Speaker 1: for what kind of speech is protected by the First

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Speaker 1: Amendment versus is not protected by the First Amendment. So

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Speaker 1: what he's really trying to do there is say that

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Speaker 1: in order to not be protected speech, the speech has

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Speaker 1: to incite imminent violence, not just violence, not just unlawful

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Speaker 1: activity generically, but imminent unlawful or violent behavior. And that's

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Speaker 1: what he's really trying to think about. And that's ultimately

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Speaker 1: one of the reasons he dismissed the lawsuit as to

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump Junior and Rudy Giuliani because he found that

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Speaker 1: the speech that they gave, the words that they spoke,

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Speaker 1: while generically kind of inciting potential violand there was no

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Speaker 1: kind of order to march to the capital now, and

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Speaker 1: so the danger of imminent imminent violence wasn't there. So

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Speaker 1: that's really what he was trying to do by drawing

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Speaker 1: these different analogies with that tease out the parameters of

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Speaker 1: what the law says the speech has to be in

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Speaker 1: order to lose protection. Were those are the two main

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Speaker 1: claims that Trump had the presidential immunity in the First Amendment. Yes,

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Speaker 1: he had a few other thanking no absolute immunity. He

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Speaker 1: had the First Amendment claim the political question doctrine. He

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Speaker 1: said that, you know, the courts can't get involved in

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Speaker 1: this issue from the legislators, can't sue in the courts,

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Speaker 1: the executive branch. He's trying to kind of muddy those

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Speaker 1: waters up. Um. And then he all so said that

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Speaker 1: because he was impeached and then acquitted in the trial,

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Speaker 1: that that he can't now be sued after being after

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Speaker 1: being acquitted of the impeachment for basically the same behavior.

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Speaker 1: And the judge rejected those two arguments as well. Did

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Speaker 1: he say it was plausible that it could be proven

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Speaker 1: that Trump entered into an agreement with the Proud Boys

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Speaker 1: and the oath keepers. So what you have to remember

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Speaker 1: is a couple of things. First of all, this is

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Speaker 1: a civil lawsuit, so it's not a criminal suit. So

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Speaker 1: in order for the civil lawsuit to succeed, you have

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Speaker 1: to have a few things right. The planiffs have to

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Speaker 1: show that they were actually injured by the defendant's action

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Speaker 1: and the wrongdoing that they allege is based on a

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Speaker 1: section that that forbids conspiring to basically stop an official

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Speaker 1: from acting in their official capacity, from doing an official act.

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Speaker 1: So their argument is that the President and other people

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Speaker 1: inspired through force, for intimidation, for threat to stop them

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Speaker 1: from doing what they were supposed to be doing, which

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Speaker 1: is certifying the vote. So they have to prove a conspiracy.

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Speaker 1: But it's a civil conspiracy, and so the standards are different.

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Speaker 1: And what the judge is saying with this plausible language

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Speaker 1: also has to do with the legal standards, which is

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Speaker 1: that because we're in a civil student, this is a

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Speaker 1: motion to dismiss. The judge actually takes the factual allegations

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Speaker 1: that the plaintiffs are making as true. He's only going

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Speaker 1: to dismiss if there's no plausible way after discovery, which

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Speaker 1: we haven't even had yet, that they could prove their claims.

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Speaker 1: So that's where he starts to say things like there

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Speaker 1: has to be an agreement. Again, it doesn't have to

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Speaker 1: be though a an explicit agreement, but because the President

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Speaker 1: and the Proud Boys and the oathkeepers, because there was

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Speaker 1: kind of this public dialogue where the President was announcing

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Speaker 1: what he wanted to happen. The Proud Boys and Oathkeepers

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Speaker 1: actually sometimes on Twitter are answering him and responding to

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Speaker 1: him and saying, yeah, we're getting ready for all of

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Speaker 1: this too. That plausibly can create the kind of conspiracy

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Speaker 1: that you can recover money from in a civil context.

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Speaker 1: So this is just the first step basically in this lawsuit.

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Speaker 1: And as you mentioned, because it's a motion to dismiss,

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Speaker 1: the judge accepts the factual allegations that the plaintiffs making

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Speaker 1: as true. Is this really a big deal that this

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Speaker 1: lawsuit is going forward, that he that the judge made

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Speaker 1: this decision or are we making too much of it?

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Speaker 1: I would say yes and no. Um, it's it's not

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Speaker 1: indicative that they will win their suit that at the

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Speaker 1: end of the day, after all of the discovery and

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Speaker 1: after they maybe even go to trial and try to

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Speaker 1: convince the jury that they have a strong case and

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Speaker 1: will win. But it gets you to discovering. So they

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Speaker 1: now have succeeded in getting past emotions of this mistage,

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Speaker 1: which means that there's more going to be documents that

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Speaker 1: have to be turned over. They're going to be depositions

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Speaker 1: that the former president and other people will have to

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Speaker 1: sit for and so the planets will be able to

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Speaker 1: collect a lot of information about what happened leading up

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Speaker 1: to and on January six. So it's a big victory

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Speaker 1: in that way in terms of what the planiffs and

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Speaker 1: ultimately the public can learn. But it doesn't mean that

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Speaker 1: they're necessarily going to win. At the end of the day.

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Speaker 1: Have Trump's lawyers said whether they're going to appeal this

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Speaker 1: or not. I would assume they would appeal it. I

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Speaker 1: don't know what they have said, but I likewise assume

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Speaker 1: that they will appeal. And so whether or not the

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Speaker 1: judge's decision is upheld depends a great deal on who's

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Speaker 1: on the panel on the d C circuit. It could

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Speaker 1: be a very conservative panel or it could be a

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Speaker 1: very liberal panel. Yes, as as it always does. Although

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Speaker 1: I will say, you know, the issue, like the legal

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Speaker 1: issue of whether the president is absolutely amun is a

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Speaker 1: big deal. Um the other things about whether there's a

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Speaker 1: plausibility that you know, there's a cause of action here,

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Speaker 1: those are pretty standard things. I wouldn't expect anyone to

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Speaker 1: overturn that aspect. But you're right on the legal issue.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you get the wrong panel. I suppose

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Speaker 1: it's possible that they say, no, no, the president absolutely

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Speaker 1: has immunity for things he says, Wow, President, I mean,

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Speaker 1: that doesn't seem to be the right answer. And so

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Speaker 1: you know, I hope that's not what they decide. That

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Speaker 1: that's at least possible. And this current Supreme Court hasn't

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Speaker 1: made any decisions about that particular topic. Not it would

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Speaker 1: cover this. I mean, there have been statements in the

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Speaker 1: Nixon case, and you know, we've had a little bit

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Speaker 1: about presidential immunity. But you know, they like to decide

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Speaker 1: things narrowly. That's how judges roll. They want to just

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Speaker 1: decide on the facts and kind of leave the possibility

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Speaker 1: of other factual scenarios that come up another time for

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Speaker 1: those those times. So there's nothing that the Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: has done to date that governs this, which is why

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Speaker 1: Judge met A said he's kind of, you know, an

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Speaker 1: uncharted territory here and had such an extensive analysis in

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Speaker 1: this case. So, in another legal setback to the former president,

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Speaker 1: a New York judge rule that Trump, Donald Trump Junior,

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Speaker 1: and Ivanka Trump have to testify under oath in the

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Speaker 1: state A g S Civil investigation of the Trump organization.

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Speaker 1: Do you think Trump will actually ever sit for that deposition?

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Speaker 1: I do, I do. I mean he's going to run

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Speaker 1: out of ways to avoid it. Um. And you know

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Speaker 1: he's been deposed before, so I think he will. I

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Speaker 1: think he'll try to continue to delay it. But um,

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Speaker 1: I think the judge ordered that they happen within three weeks,

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Speaker 1: so he's going to be able to push that. I

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Speaker 1: think a little bit um with some appeals. But you know,

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Speaker 1: remember this is in state court, so you know, his

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Speaker 1: appeal is not necessarily to uh, some of the friendly

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Speaker 1: federal judges, but that he has found in some of

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Speaker 1: the litigations he's been involved with lately. So I think

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Speaker 1: he'll have to sit for it. Now. I don't think

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Speaker 1: he'll say much. I think they probably will all invoke

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Speaker 1: their Fifth Amendment right to avoid self incrimination. Uh, and

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Speaker 1: so they probably won't say a lot of interesting things.

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Speaker 1: But I think they will have to sit and go

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Speaker 1: in and and do that invocation, and uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: and we'll see what we learned. It seems like a

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Speaker 1: lot of things are going against Trump because his long

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Speaker 1: time accounting firm also dumped him as a client and

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Speaker 1: said a decade of its financial statements weren't reliable. Basically,

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Speaker 1: does it seem as if he hasn't had any favorable

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Speaker 1: decisions in a while? Well, it fuaily was a bad

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Speaker 1: week for him last week. But you know, I have

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Speaker 1: to say, if you take a look at the court cases,

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Speaker 1: just litigation that he's been involved Alton over the past

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Speaker 1: few years, he's had virtually no victories. I mean, his

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Speaker 1: strategy has been do what he wants to do, uh,

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Speaker 1: and then just try to stall the legal process, which

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Speaker 1: you know is invoked to try to force him to

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Speaker 1: do what he doesn't want to do. Uh, And that

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Speaker 1: has been successful as a stalling tactic. But he really

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Speaker 1: hasn't won any of these court battles. So it's not

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Speaker 1: just a week long losing streak. It's really a year's

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Speaker 1: long losing streaks. So I think things are just kind

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Speaker 1: of catching up to him at some point as the

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Speaker 1: merits of these matters finally get adjudicated after so many delays,

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Speaker 1: and he doesn't have great legal claims, so he's losing

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Speaker 1: those cases. Also, we have the kerfuffle over the documents,

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Speaker 1: the presidential documents. The House Oversight Committee said that his

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Speaker 1: handling of the documents appeared to constitute serious violations of

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Speaker 1: the Presidential Records Act. So the question is, though, is

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Speaker 1: it likely that the Justice Department is going to pursue

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Speaker 1: anything against Trump for something like the Presidential Records Act? Well,

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Speaker 1: they definitely are are highly unlikely to pursue a Presidential

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Speaker 1: Records Act violation because you know, that's one of those

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Speaker 1: strange laws that says you shall do this or you

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Speaker 1: shall not do that, but then doesn't say what happens

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Speaker 1: if you do or you don't. So there's no enforcement mechanisms.

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Speaker 1: So they can say presidential records must be handled us

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Speaker 1: and so, but it doesn't say and if you don't,

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Speaker 1: you will be imprisoned for not more than five years

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Speaker 1: and find, you know, a hundred thousand dollars. There's no

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Speaker 1: enforcement provisions, so they're not going to do anything about that.

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Speaker 1: The issue is whether they do anything about classified materials

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Speaker 1: that were mishandled, because d o J does take that

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Speaker 1: very seriously. So that's kind of what I'm waiting to

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Speaker 1: see is is I think they will investigate that, whether

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Speaker 1: they charge or not will be a matter of their

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Speaker 1: discretion and will depend, I think on what they learned

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Speaker 1: about how those documents were handled and what they actually are,

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Speaker 1: how serious violation, how how secretive the material classification and

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Speaker 1: so on. But I think they will at least investigate

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Speaker 1: that aspect of it. So finally, I keep hearing that

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Speaker 1: one of the reasons that Trump wants to run again

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Speaker 1: for and become president again is to stop these lawsuits.

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Speaker 1: And I'm wondering if his becoming president again could stop them,

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Speaker 1: because in two years they might not have progressed, they

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Speaker 1: might not have been at trial already. So you know

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Speaker 1: that there's there's a difference between civil actions and criminal actions.

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Speaker 1: So we now know from his presidency the first time

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Speaker 1: around that really you can't charge a president while he's president.

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Speaker 1: The problem is with him with all of these criminal

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Speaker 1: investigations out there, I think those will run their course

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Speaker 1: before the election, and he'll either be charged or not.

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Speaker 1: The civil actions can proceed. You know, there's no reason

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Speaker 1: that that the president can have a civil action going

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Speaker 1: on as long as you know, he doesn't need to

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Speaker 1: take too much time away from his duties to take

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Speaker 1: care of it. So while I agree with you, I

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Speaker 1: think you know, we will get into the election cycle

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Speaker 1: certainly before all of these civil actions have been resolved.

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Speaker 1: Because they do take a lot of time, they will

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Speaker 1: be able to continue. There's nothing that will will stop them.

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Speaker 1: So you know, if I'm advising him, I certainly would

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Speaker 1: tell him not to make a decision based on that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there are a lot of factors into running

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Speaker 1: or not running, but that doesn't seem to me to

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Speaker 1: be a particularly solid one to to think about. Thanks Jennifer.

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Speaker 1: That's Jennifer Rogers, an adjunct professor at m y U

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Speaker 1: Law School. I'm June Grosso. When you're listening to Bloomberg,