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Speaker 1: From the heart of where innovation, money and power. CALLI

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Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with

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Speaker 1: Emily j I'm Caroline Hyde in New York. This is

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Technology. Coming up. In the next hour, we explore

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Speaker 1: the latest sanctions that the Biden administration is levying a Russia.

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Speaker 1: This country inches forward to a possible invasion of Ukraine,

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Speaker 1: classic tensions heightened, how Russia could also use cyber attacks

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Speaker 1: to retaliate for those sanctions. Plus the revolving down in

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Speaker 1: Washington between those in crypto when those tasked with policing

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Speaker 1: it some surprising number of people who have been making

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Speaker 1: the move from crypto to government and vice versa. And

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Speaker 1: for the first time in nearly two decades, there will

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Speaker 1: be no new call a duty next year. Well, that

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Speaker 1: means the gaming industry, and that's why the gaming world

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Speaker 1: is going crazy off elden Ring and my fans a

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Speaker 1: Game of Thrones might be intrigued as well. We'll get

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Speaker 1: to all of that good stuff in a moment, but first, well,

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Speaker 1: it was another pretty bleak day on the market, particularly

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Speaker 1: for your long technology, but most pretty good to has

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Speaker 1: the update for us, Yeah, a risk off day in

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Speaker 1: the market's read on the screen, which is interesting given

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Speaker 1: that we had a pretty big sell off yesterday. That

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Speaker 1: usually means you have a pretty strong rebound. But even

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Speaker 1: though we opened in the green, we weren't able to

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Speaker 1: hold those games. You can see that right behind me

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Speaker 1: the SMP five hundred closing down one percent, but like

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Speaker 1: you said, Caroline, a lot of that pain showing up

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Speaker 1: in the NASDAC down almost to all which shy three

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Speaker 1: percent two point six percent. What's important to keep in

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Speaker 1: mind here is that big tech, although at least those records,

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Speaker 1: it also leads the declines, and that's really what you're

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Speaker 1: seeing seeing. One of the only sectors in the green

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Speaker 1: today was of course energy, which brings me once again

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Speaker 1: to those geopolitical tensions. You can see that's what weighed

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Speaker 1: the stock market down but actually fed into commodities, and

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Speaker 1: you can see that Brent crude getting closer and closer

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Speaker 1: to that one dollar. There's a barrel that is going

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Speaker 1: to be significant when we talk about inflation feeding back

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Speaker 1: into what actually weighs on those tech stocks. Let's talk

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Speaker 1: about technicals though, because that absolutely plays into this dynamic.

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Speaker 1: You actually saw the SMP close into correction territory yesterday.

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Speaker 1: So once again, Caroline, the assumption here is that you're

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Speaker 1: going to see a bounce back. Pretty normally, when the

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Speaker 1: SMP five hundred drops ten from its all time peak,

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Speaker 1: you do see a pretty strong bounce back. Yet we

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Speaker 1: are not there. We are now down eleven from its

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Speaker 1: peak earlier this year. There was some green on the screen,

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Speaker 1: though a little pockets, and when it comes once again,

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Speaker 1: it comes to geopolitical tensions. Traditionally in those kind of

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Speaker 1: safe haven moves, you tend to go to big tech.

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Speaker 1: But today that green on the screen happened to me

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Speaker 1: and cybersecurity stocks a little bit of a last miss

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Speaker 1: self when it comes to CrowdStrike, vm Ware and fort neet,

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Speaker 1: but Paulo Alto once again actually gaining some pretty blockbuster

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Speaker 1: earnings there at the end of the day, when you're

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Speaker 1: talking about geopolitical risk, when you're talking about invasion risk,

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Speaker 1: and of course cyber tax on Ukraine, what better play

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Speaker 1: than those defense stocks, And right now, that's the purpose

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Speaker 1: cybersecurity is playing right now on the stock market. Pretty

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Speaker 1: such a great round up, really tying together all of

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Speaker 1: the headwinds and tail winds in the market in their

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Speaker 1: own moment, and I want to talk more about those

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Speaker 1: headwinds and precisely the sanctions that we were just talking about,

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Speaker 1: the Biden administration once again opping the anti in that respect,

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Speaker 1: we want to bring in of course, Blue WEG's Washington correspondent.

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Speaker 1: He's not in Washington, so New York, Amory Horden. The

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Speaker 1: reason your hero is because you had a really great

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Speaker 1: exclusive interview. But first and foremost, bring us up to

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Speaker 1: speed with well where we are in terms of sanctions.

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Speaker 1: They seem to be ramping up slowly. Yeah, the Biden

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Speaker 1: administration today is going to be sanctioning nord Stream too

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Speaker 1: and the individuals that are part of nord Stream two.

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Speaker 1: And this is, I have to say, is a pretty

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Speaker 1: aggressive step. This is something that the US has really

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Speaker 1: held back from doing. And this isn't just now that

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Speaker 1: the Germans say we're going to wait for that certification,

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Speaker 1: because remind us nor Stream to the gas pipeline between

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Speaker 1: Germany and Russia, right, and this is something Putin wants

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Speaker 1: eleven billion dollars. He can start to not go through

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Speaker 1: Ukraine as much for those gas, but instead use another

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Speaker 1: pipeline direct clean into Europe, the heart of Europe. And

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Speaker 1: now even though the Germany says they're going to wait

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Speaker 1: to potentially certify it with the US putting sanctions on

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Speaker 1: and that means that certification may never come through. But

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Speaker 1: the Ukrainian Foreign minister who I sat down and said

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Speaker 1: this is very welcome. They've been against north Stream too

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Speaker 1: for years. But he said more sanctions are needed to

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Speaker 1: take lessen. It sends a strong message to put In,

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Speaker 1: but it still doesn't stop him. So it means we

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Speaker 1: need more sanctions, we need the second wave and then

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Speaker 1: probably the third way until it gets clear to him

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Speaker 1: that he shouldn't make any step further. Dmitro phuleb there

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Speaker 1: and he's heading back to Kiev. Now we should know

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Speaker 1: Kiev now, Caroline and Ukraine as a whole. It's a

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Speaker 1: state of emergency. The separatists have asked Putin to send

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Speaker 1: in troops. So it does feel like things are really

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Speaker 1: starting to escalate, starting to escalate, and also not only

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Speaker 1: in physical form, but also in cyber form as well.

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Speaker 1: There was another cyber attack on Ukraine's key sort of

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Speaker 1: infrastructure to and including the foreign minister his website, so

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Speaker 1: that all these ministry as were attacked. This was the

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Speaker 1: second cyber attack that's happened in about a week. But

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Speaker 1: this has happened to Ukraine a number of times. One

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Speaker 1: of the biggest ones was in when literally everyone's power

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Speaker 1: went out in the country, or maybe three hundred thousand

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Speaker 1: consumers right, it felt like a lot at the time.

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Speaker 1: But they've attacked cyber attacks have been at banks, the

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Speaker 1: metro a number of issues. And I asked him about

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Speaker 1: this and he said they have been working for to

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Speaker 1: really fortify it and make it a little bit more robust.

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Speaker 1: But I was curious about if you're going tipped for

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Speaker 1: toe or tip for tat with poutin tote to toe

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Speaker 1: when it comes to sanctions trying to deter him any

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Speaker 1: of his conversations have Western leaders said they would also

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Speaker 1: issue cyber attacks on Russia and he said, no, that

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Speaker 1: hasn't come up yet. We'll see how cyber wolf haes

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Speaker 1: stoughts to be factored in a little bit more. I'm

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Speaker 1: reholding such a great interview. Go onto dot com and

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Speaker 1: seek it out because it was a great conversation. But

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Speaker 1: we want to, of course discuss a little bit more

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Speaker 1: about what's been happening with several of the Ukrainian government

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Speaker 1: and banking websites not functioning due to distributed to not

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Speaker 1: of service attacks d d US. This comes after Ukraine

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Speaker 1: said just last week that of course it suffered its

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Speaker 1: worst cyber attack also targeting banking and government websites is

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Speaker 1: and Marie was just telling us, let's dig into it.

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Speaker 1: Marcus Fowler, he's a senior vice president for Strategic Engagements

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Speaker 1: and Threats for dark Trace. He also spent fifteen years

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Speaker 1: working at the CIA as its global cyber operations. You're

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Speaker 1: a man who is in the know on these things.

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Speaker 1: Just talk to us about the level of threat that

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Speaker 1: distributed denial of service attacks have on Ukraine. How impactful

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Speaker 1: are they? Carolina and great to be here, So, you know,

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Speaker 1: these distributed denial service attacks really go at basically flooding

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Speaker 1: a network or a website with traffic so that they're unusable,

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Speaker 1: they're overloaded, and they really don't function, and they can

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Speaker 1: be disruptive kind of at that, you know, if I'm

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Speaker 1: a consumer trying to get to a specific website, and

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Speaker 1: they can really frustrate kind of the the Internet connectivity

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Speaker 1: of a specific website. But in terms of like broader,

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Speaker 1: more disruptive attacks, I think those are still to come. Okay,

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Speaker 1: still to come and still to come level DoPT Ukraine

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Speaker 1: or do you start to think that here in the

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Speaker 1: United States, with sanctions being upped by the Biden administration,

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Speaker 1: we could to see infrastructure as we've seen before, or

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Speaker 1: perhaps websites and the like start to be attacked as well.

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Speaker 1: Great question. I think the easy answers both. You're going

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Speaker 1: to see them ratchet up. You're gonna see the Russians

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Speaker 1: ratche up, ratchet up cyber attacks within Ukraine, potentially moving

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Speaker 1: into ransomware, data theft, data encryption to further cripple organizations

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Speaker 1: and businesses, as well as potentially move into critical infrastructure

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Speaker 1: as a as a higher escalation point. As for the

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Speaker 1: U S and the West, as harsher and harsher sanctions

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Speaker 1: and more economic damage is done on Russia, you will

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Speaker 1: see them. I think I want you an attempt to

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Speaker 1: respond in kind in terms of economic disruption, thinking financial institutions,

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Speaker 1: banks maybe potentially tightening and or more damage to the

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Speaker 1: supply chain through either their own actions or proxies such

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Speaker 1: as cyber criminal groups or in ransomware actors. Yeah, to

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Speaker 1: that point, when you are looking at the data, when

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Speaker 1: you're trying to see when you're understanding where these attacks

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Speaker 1: are coming from, how do you discern whether it's indeed

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Speaker 1: from the government, whether or need it's more using other

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Speaker 1: actors at their will. How you can ensure that you're

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Speaker 1: joining the dolts in a sophisticated manner. No, your attribution

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Speaker 1: within cyberspace and who the actor actually was is incredibly difficult.

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Speaker 1: So I was very pleased to see what the earlier

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Speaker 1: version of the denial of service attacks. The US government

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Speaker 1: come out fairly quickly to identify the Russians as the actor,

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Speaker 1: as the attackers in that space, and I think assessed

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Speaker 1: attribution is really important, that it is done as quickly

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Speaker 1: as possible, and that Russians, where there is evidence, can

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Speaker 1: be held accountable. But I think they will absolutely be

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Speaker 1: leaning on proxy organizations, potentially new ransomware groups we haven't

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Speaker 1: heard of before. You're gonna see more activity within that

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Speaker 1: space as the Russians either provide more state directed you know, actions,

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Speaker 1: or are increasing not only trying to blind ive but

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Speaker 1: kind of turned the shackles, you know, released that the

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Speaker 1: shackles a bit in terms of those ransomware groups operating

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Speaker 1: out of their backyard as it were, Marcus, I mean,

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Speaker 1: obviously this is I'm asking you to talk your book

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Speaker 1: a little bit. But have we seen an uptick in

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Speaker 1: demand for cyber protection? Are we seeing the defenses being fortified?

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Speaker 1: Are we ready for the fight to be perfectly frank So,

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Speaker 1: I would say one of the silver linings of the

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Speaker 1: increasing ransomware over the last two years is absolutely seeing

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Speaker 1: the private industry, especially prioritized cybersecurity more directly right and

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Speaker 1: really start to put more resources, personnel, you know, advanced

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Speaker 1: emerging technologies into that space. And I think that the

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Speaker 1: US government has as well, right and as well as

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Speaker 1: as mother Western allies, recognizing the increased threat, have they

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Speaker 1: done enough, you know, as quickly? I think you we

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Speaker 1: aren't a bit of a race condition against what will

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Speaker 1: be a spike in in cyber attacks and getting the

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Speaker 1: right pieces in place to properly defend right. It's kind

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Speaker 1: of what that that old adage of you go to

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Speaker 1: war with the army you have, not the army you'd

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Speaker 1: wish you'd built and resourced and prioritized appropriately. Moist the

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Speaker 1: way Marcus Fowler really interesting. We thank you so much

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Speaker 1: as VP of Dark Trace. Let's just take a moment

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Speaker 1: to think about, well, the future of marketing from Palaton

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Speaker 1: to Facebook or US. We now know it meta. The

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Speaker 1: world is seeing its shares of brands facing kind of

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Speaker 1: a post pandemic marketing challenge. More I want to bring

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Speaker 1: in on the back of its earnings and also it's

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Speaker 1: forward looking thinking on all of this. The marketing firm

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Speaker 1: sat to Global, the CEO and co founder and chairman

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Speaker 1: David Steinberg's with us also, of course, as I say,

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Speaker 1: pushing to a fourth court of sales number that beat

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Speaker 1: estimates under thirty five million. Talk to us first and

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Speaker 1: foremost about your numbers first, David and the growth that

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Speaker 1: you're seeing. Are we seeing continued demand and knowledge need

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Speaker 1: in the marketing space. Yah? So, first of all, thank

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Speaker 1: you for having me, Caroline. I appreciate it. It's great

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Speaker 1: to be here. Uh So, in SATA, what we're really

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Speaker 1: seeing is what I think a lot of organizations are seeing.

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Speaker 1: There's a tremendous amount of disruption in the ecosystem. Is

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Speaker 1: most marketers are moving from analog marketing to digital marketing.

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Speaker 1: And as a lot of the very large tech players

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Speaker 1: are sort of trying to consolidate control. Apple got rid

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Speaker 1: of their tracking mechanism called the I d f A.

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Speaker 1: Google is eliminating their cross app tracking, They're eliminating the

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Speaker 1: third party cookie. Platforms like at A Global, which do

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Speaker 1: not use any of those to resolve to an identity,

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Speaker 1: have been able to grow fairly dramatically. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think that we grew the business when normalized for the

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Speaker 1: presidential election by thirty two percent in the fourth quarter,

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Speaker 1: and we grew earnings for the year by over sixty

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of that is coming from this

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Speaker 1: big disruption in the marketplace where organizations are trying to

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Speaker 1: figure out how to navigate those changes, and Zeta Global

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Speaker 1: is a bespoke platform to help them do so. And obviously,

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Speaker 1: feeling that you've got enough confidence in your growth strategy

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Speaker 1: that from a full year revenue of about four fifty

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Speaker 1: eight million, you're looking to get that into an excess

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Speaker 1: of a billion dollars in annual revenue over the next

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Speaker 1: well up to talk to us about the kind of

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Speaker 1: companies that are coming to at the moment. So it's

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Speaker 1: a great question. Obviously, not only did we roll out

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Speaker 1: our plan to get to over a billion year in

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Speaker 1: revenue and plus operating margins, we fairly dramatically increased our

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Speaker 1: guidance for two as well. Uh, you know, we're seeing

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Speaker 1: very large enterprises. In fact, thirty four percent of the

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Speaker 1: Fortune one hundred today use the Zata marketing platform who

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Speaker 1: are trying to get to consumers in a way that

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Speaker 1: is very cost efficient. And our platform is not just digital,

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Speaker 1: it is built to be efficient in the way the

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Speaker 1: marketing operates. And we've been able to really scale very

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Speaker 1: very quickly with our clients. And so, how how do I,

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Speaker 1: as a client wanting to get in front of the

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Speaker 1: right use of the right demographic, the right timing, how

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Speaker 1: do I do that in a cost efficient way at

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Speaker 1: the moment, because I feel that there's a lawful lot

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Speaker 1: of wall of money is being spent on the likes

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Speaker 1: of Instagram, on the likes of TikTok. But is it

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Speaker 1: really being that efficient to your perspective, Yeah, so a

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Speaker 1: lot of it isn't right. So the old joke is,

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Speaker 1: you know, marketers would say, I know that of my

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Speaker 1: marketing is a waste of money. I just do not

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Speaker 1: know which half the beauty of the data marketing platform,

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Speaker 1: combined with our data cloud, which has over two hundred

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Speaker 1: and thirty million opted in US individuals alone, is we

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Speaker 1: can weed out the individuals that do not have a

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Speaker 1: propensity to want to buy our clients products, and we

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Speaker 1: know exactly when they're in market, so we're able to

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Speaker 1: hit them at the precise time with the precise message,

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Speaker 1: and we're able to pull out of that marketing funnel

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Speaker 1: the fifty percent of customers who would not be credit

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Speaker 1: approved and or have a propensity to want to buy

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Speaker 1: that product. So just by removing them, you're able to

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Speaker 1: massively increase the efficiency. And then by using our data

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Speaker 1: cloud where you're interacting with these two hundred and twenty

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Speaker 1: million opted in US individuals, were able to know when

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Speaker 1: they're in market for particular products and services and specifically

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Speaker 1: target them when their thinking about the products. So those

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Speaker 1: two things allow us to be very efficient with our

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Speaker 1: enterprise client's budgets. Said opted in, how are we in

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Speaker 1: terms of general trend lines, how many people are going

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Speaker 1: to be wanting to to opt in? How many people

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Speaker 1: see the quid pro quo and say I'm in, I

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Speaker 1: wanted I want to be targeted that little bit more efficiently. Yeah, listen,

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Speaker 1: we we came about this in a very different approach

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Speaker 1: from most companies so we have acquired a large number

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Speaker 1: of technology platforms that power publishers. In an exchange for

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Speaker 1: the publisher getting our software platforms at no cost and

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Speaker 1: the consumer being able to use those tools at no cost,

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Speaker 1: we simply ask them to opt in. In return, we

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Speaker 1: guarantee the consumer we will never sell their data to

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Speaker 1: anybody at any price at any time. We simply use

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Speaker 1: that data to build intent based scores on what does

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Speaker 1: the consumer intend to do next? Do they intend to

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Speaker 1: buy a particular credit card, do they want a blue

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Speaker 1: car of a particular model, are they going to churn

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Speaker 1: off a wireless platform? And we use that data to

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Speaker 1: build the curriculum of contact on behalf of our enterprise

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Speaker 1: clients to help them lower churn or create customers more efficiently.

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Speaker 1: So by always keeping the consumers data private, we get

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Speaker 1: a lot more consumers who are willing to opt into

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Speaker 1: the platform and work with us because they know their

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Speaker 1: data is never going to be sold. Here's hoping we

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Speaker 1: get stalked a little bit less by ads for things

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Speaker 1: we've only just purchased. So thank you very much. Indeed,

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Speaker 1: there's a global CEO and co founder and chairman David Steinberg.

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Speaker 1: Are you making the time for us when he's just

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Speaker 1: released his earnings and indeed a serial entrepreneur, they're so

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Speaker 1: great findings. Now we're going to talk about it called

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Speaker 1: a Duty being delayed. It's the first time the franchise

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Speaker 1: will be without an annual main line release in nearly

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Speaker 1: two decades. It's all according to people familiar with the plan.

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Speaker 1: Now we want to talk to our expert and all

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Speaker 1: of this, Bloomberg's Jason Schreyer for more on the reasoning

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Speaker 1: behind it. It feels as though what the previous release

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Speaker 1: just didn't live up to expectations. Yeah, that's exactly what happened.

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Speaker 1: So Call of Duty, um it has been an annual release,

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Speaker 1: has come out every fall since two thousand and five.

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Speaker 1: So this is pretty stunning. It's a it's a big change.

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Speaker 1: And just for a little context, is the last time

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Speaker 1: we did not have a Call of Duty UM, I

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Speaker 1: believe was the beginning of the first Obama administration, So no, sorry,

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Speaker 1: at the beginning of George W. Bush's second term. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: so we're talking about a very long time. And yes,

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Speaker 1: so the previous year's last year's Call of Duty game underperformed,

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Speaker 1: which led activism Exacts to start thinking, hey, maybe we

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Speaker 1: need to rethink this whole release schedule thing. Maybe gave

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Speaker 1: some of these titles a little bit more breathing real Okay,

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Speaker 1: so maybe a little bit more desire working up our

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Speaker 1: appetite for the latest release. But it also comes at

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Speaker 1: a time that there's a lot of change and Activision

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Speaker 1: of course, notably that they're being boored. Could it be

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Speaker 1: anything to do with that, Yeah, I mean, I'm sure

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Speaker 1: there's some There's been some conversations there another about how

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Speaker 1: Microsoft will react. But you know what, I think, legally,

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Speaker 1: even though they've announced the acquisition, the Microsoft is buying Activision, um,

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Speaker 1: it is not quite closed. They need to go through

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Speaker 1: regulatory approval, which is expected to be finished by the

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Speaker 1: next summer at the at the latest, summer three at

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Speaker 1: the latest. So until then, Activision is legally required to

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Speaker 1: just continue operating autonomously. And I'm sure they're in conversations

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Speaker 1: and Microsoft exects all the time. They are still making

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Speaker 1: their own calls. And I think this was more about

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Speaker 1: the health of the College Duty franchise than it was

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Speaker 1: about Microsoft coming in and wanting to make some changes

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Speaker 1: and talked to us. Therefore about maybe some of the

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Speaker 1: independent changes they're making ahead of the sale from an

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Speaker 1: executive shake up perspective, because they were once the acquirer,

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Speaker 1: particularly of the maker of candy Crush. And then there's

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Speaker 1: some executive chan that yes again, um that was actually

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Speaker 1: just today is that king to make a mechanic? Car

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Speaker 1: Sta announce that their president and chief creative officer both departing.

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Speaker 1: Um again, who knows if that is really related to

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Speaker 1: the Microsoft exposition or if, as they said, they want

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Speaker 1: to go spend more time with their family. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we all know what what that typically means and exact speak. Um.

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Speaker 1: But again, I just don't think that, Um, well, it's

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Speaker 1: possible of these folks saw the writing on the wall

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Speaker 1: and they're like, you know what, Microsoft is going to

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Speaker 1: make some changes anyway, we better might as well get

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Speaker 1: out of here early. I do not think that Microsoft

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Speaker 1: is actually getting involved too much just yet. Okay, lastly,

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Speaker 1: like talk to us a little bit about where is

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Speaker 1: hot right now? So if we're going to have to

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Speaker 1: wait for Activision to release Call a Duty, there is

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Speaker 1: another game that everyone seem to be talking about. Elden Ring. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: alden Ring comes out on Friday today. The review embargo

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Speaker 1: lifts a bunch of criticism just hit. Last I checked,

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Speaker 1: it was tracking to be um one of the if

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Speaker 1: not the best reviewed games of all times. Um So,

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Speaker 1: which is the game a lot of what was the

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Speaker 1: winner before UM I should check? I think, uh the

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Speaker 1: legend of Zelda Breuss of the while it was a

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Speaker 1: top one, Mario Odyssey was another chop one um let.

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Speaker 1: As I checked on the Open Critic, which is a

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Speaker 1: review aggregation site, it has a ninety six out of

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Speaker 1: a hundred, which is by far the biggest game of

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Speaker 1: the year, and I think one of the biggest games ever.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, so this game, UM, it's getting a lot

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Speaker 1: of heights, largely because it's a crossover between George R.

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Speaker 1: Martin UM. George R. Martin was the writer of the

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Speaker 1: Game of Thrones series UM and from Software, which is

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Speaker 1: a Japanese developer that, as you tell them, absolutely the

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Speaker 1: loved among a lot of gamers for its series Dark

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Speaker 1: Souls UM, which is known as like a really interesting, mysterious,

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Speaker 1: difficult um action action RPG series. And so the game

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Speaker 1: combined the two and it really just takes a lot

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Speaker 1: of smart ideas from a lot of other games. And uh,

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Speaker 1: it's really brilliant. I've been a whole an of it

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Speaker 1: over the past week. Jason, you're doing your reporting for us.

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Speaker 1: We thank you. Jason Schreyer, He's always so smart on

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Speaker 1: all things gaming. So go check out the latest. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: coming up, despite while supply chain issues and shipping delays,

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Speaker 1: it didn't seem to slow down over stock, which is

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Speaker 1: reported about than expected fourth quarter earnings. We're gonna be

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Speaker 1: breaking down all of the numbers when it comes to

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Speaker 1: you're purchasing a big ticket items for the CEO Jonathan Johnson.

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Speaker 1: But also remember there for ay into blockchain. He's been

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Speaker 1: a big proponent of the technology and looks as though

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Speaker 1: his early investments there seemed to still be bearing fruit.

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Speaker 1: Suddenly people liking the stock on a key investment in

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Speaker 1: the financial exchange area. So stick with us of that

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Speaker 1: conversation from beautiful sunny New York. This has been back.

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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Technology. I'm Caroline High in New York.

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Speaker 1: Let's get back to some market moves today because we've

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Speaker 1: seen tech in particular under pressure, particularly amid the rhymesing

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Speaker 1: tensions between Russia and Ukraine. Why let's talk to run Blastelica,

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Speaker 1: who's with us of course over in Chicago and run

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Speaker 1: is it is it theoretically risk off or is it

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Speaker 1: more a rising rates environment that means in tech feels

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Speaker 1: the pressure the most. Well, we're really seeing both of

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Speaker 1: those factors coming to play at the same time right now.

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Speaker 1: We already have we've long had concerns about the prospect

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Speaker 1: of rising interest rates and inflation fed policy, and then

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Speaker 1: on top of that we had this new geopolitical tension

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Speaker 1: that it's just another reason for investors be a little

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Speaker 1: bit more cautious about the growth side of the market.

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Speaker 1: And it's another reason why we've seen people just pull

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Speaker 1: back from tech and a pretty broad based fashion. I'm

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Speaker 1: looking at a child and now it's like one hundred

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Speaker 1: from us all time high. I mean, that's basically heading

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Speaker 1: into bear territory now as we saw the SPI in

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Speaker 1: a technical correction level. Ryan talked to us about what

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Speaker 1: analysts are saying, because on the one side, you've got

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Speaker 1: Goldman Sacks sort of talk calling about a regime change

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Speaker 1: that we're seeing, particularly in the hedge funds area selling

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Speaker 1: out a big tech but Morgan Stanley sort of looking

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Speaker 1: at maybe the silver lining the opportunities therein absolutely so

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Speaker 1: Morgan Stanley came out with some Daddy yesterday that looks

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Speaker 1: at a fund ownership from major technology stocks, and it

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Speaker 1: found that when it comes to names like Apple and Microsoft,

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Speaker 1: these are under owned relative to their weight in the

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Speaker 1: SMP five hundred, which the firm interprets as a positive signal.

431
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,720
Speaker 1: Perhaps people have communities for so much there's maybe a

432
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,919
Speaker 1: little bit room on the upside from here. Therefore, are

433
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 1: you likely to see a bounce? Are we likely to

434
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 1: hend head to a bad territory? Are we thinking that

435
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 1: in this rising tension with Russian Ukraine and we're really

436
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 1: in for more pain to come? Everyone I've spoken with

437
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,719
Speaker 1: expects a lot more volatility in the space, and certainly

438
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,400
Speaker 1: no one is ruling out the potential for additional aside

439
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 1: from here. But when it comes to these major names

440
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 1: like your Apples and Microsoft and Amazon and so forth,

441
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 1: people continue just to really see very strong long term

442
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 1: growth potential here, strong earnings power, and those are factories

443
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 1: that do have people continuing to be a fan of them,

444
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 1: even if in the short term there is a potential

445
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 1: for further volatility and downside and questioning evaluations. Ryan, we

446
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 1: thank you so much. When Ryan Lastelica stays warm over

447
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 1: in cold Chicago, and let's talk about sort of the

448
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:29,879
Speaker 1: down day that we had on the overall markets, but

449
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 1: the companies outperformed. One of them was Overstock, in fact,

450
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,159
Speaker 1: surging in terms of its share price, announcing better than

451
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 1: expected fourth quarter earnings, as well as navigating, of course,

452
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 1: the ongoing headwinds that are supply chain issues, labor issues, inflation,

453
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 1: re isssues. Let's talk about how you managed to navigate that,

454
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,919
Speaker 1: and also a little bit of blockchain to see of

455
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 1: Overstocks with us Jonathan Johnson, Jonathan, congrats on the numbers

456
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 1: and and talk to us a little bit about how

457
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 1: you've managed to ensure the inventories where you need it,

458
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 1: that supply is where you need it when the rest

459
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 1: of the world is really struggling with it. Yeah, we

460
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:05,119
Speaker 1: had another great quarters, our seventh consecutive quarter of profits,

461
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 1: second consecutive year of market share growth. We have a

462
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 1: vast and distributed supply chain, uh so, over three thousand

463
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 1: partners that have goods for us. We have always had

464
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 1: goods in inventory. We're very good at forecasting for our

465
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 1: for our carriers where demand will be, so we weren't

466
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,120
Speaker 1: hit with ship again two years ago, and we weren't

467
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:35,159
Speaker 1: hit with any delivery problems this past year. And of

468
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 1: course supply chain is tough, but we think our distributed

469
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 1: asset light model really helps us navigate a well. And

470
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 1: do you see any easing all some of those pressures

471
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:48,879
Speaker 1: in general in the industry. I think the bottlenecks and

472
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 1: kinson the supply chain probably will last for the bulk

473
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 1: of uh that that supply chain is pretty stressed, and

474
00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:01,160
Speaker 1: so any small kink in it tends to be amplified

475
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 1: more than it normally would. We think our system works well,

476
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 1: particularly well in times of high demand and low supply.

477
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 1: What about inflationary pressures as well? Because people come to

478
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 1: you for value, is that going to be a headwind

479
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 1: tailwind for you? As we start to see people worrying

480
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 1: about the price point, people do come to us and

481
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 1: recognize us for smart value, which means, you know, the

482
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 1: best product they can get for their dollar. Of course,

483
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 1: there are inflationary headwinds for everyone, whether it's labor or

484
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 1: goods or you know, gasoline prices. We've done a nice

485
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 1: job being able to absorb those with our suppliers and

486
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 1: pass as little of those as possible onto the onto

487
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,439
Speaker 1: our customers. Our customers when they come to over stock,

488
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,160
Speaker 1: she expects a great deal for her dollar, and we're

489
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,639
Speaker 1: still able to deliver that. I'm interested when you say gasoline,

490
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 1: because an awful lot of people would say, actually, it's

491
00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:59,919
Speaker 1: it's the delivery, it's the trucking. Is that sort of

492
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,679
Speaker 1: choke point that has been difficult? How are you finding

493
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 1: you know, when we look at geopolitical tension, we look

494
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 1: at oil prices heading towards a hundred dollars? Is that

495
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,159
Speaker 1: something you just braceful that little bit more? How do

496
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 1: you lean on your suppliers in that respect? Well, you know,

497
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 1: we we have to lean on them. We work closely

498
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 1: with you know, the ups s and the Fedexes of

499
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 1: the world, which are the last mild delivery from our

500
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 1: suppliers warehouses. Uh, it's it's a difficult thing to manage.

501
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 1: We've got a great supply chain team than the nagies,

502
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: each of those relationships really well. Just looking at your

503
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 1: share price obviously doing incredibly well on the day, but

504
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: has been under pressure over the year. How are you

505
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 1: sort of talking to investors at the moment they're feeling

506
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 1: that you're getting caught up in an evaluation question mark

507
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 1: in the time where we start to look at rate

508
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,239
Speaker 1: hikes and issues like that, or what what do you

509
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,439
Speaker 1: make of the valuation of your business? Well, as I

510
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 1: mentioned on our call today, we have a board off

511
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 1: rise to share we purchase amount we think our stock

512
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 1: is undervalued today. Uh, we've been in a a company

513
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 1: black out BRAOD since the first of December. That's been

514
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 1: the bulk. When when the time when the price has

515
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: gone down, I think we're in a good position to

516
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 1: exercise our buy back. Should that be the right thing

517
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 1: to do? Interesting, so making the most of it yourself.

518
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: Of course, you're a man who's known for being front

519
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 1: of the pack when it comes to dream homes, but

520
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,160
Speaker 1: also a man who's really understood and got to grips

521
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 1: and blockchain before many did and before it became the

522
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 1: catchual term that we would love to make out the

523
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: way further afield in crypto than we actually are. I'm

524
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 1: interested in Medici ventures, of course, that was originally the

525
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 1: part of the business that you had making investments in

526
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,959
Speaker 1: some of the blockchain technology. You've doubled down in that

527
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 1: T zero talk to us about why this is a

528
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 1: spinoff of yours and said well, a company that you're

529
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 1: in a minority stake in, and Piper Satellite analysts really

530
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 1: liking the new funding round that T zero has been getting.

531
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 1: Remind this what T zero does and why it's additive

532
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: to your business. So T zero is blockchain meets capital markets.

533
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 1: It's UH. It's a registered alternative trading system or exchange

534
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 1: UH that uses blockchain to settle trades more quickly. It's

535
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: able to deal in cryptocurrencies and n f t s

536
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 1: and security tokens and the normally traded NMS securities UH.

537
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: This week, T zero announced that it received a significant

538
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:34,239
Speaker 1: minority investment from ICE, the parent company to the New

539
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 1: York Stock Exchange, among others, and that the former chief

540
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 1: strategy officer at Ice would become the new CEO at

541
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 1: T zero. We think this is a great omen for

542
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 1: the future as markets moved to the century. We think

543
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 1: they're going to use blockchain. We think you're gonna be

544
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 1: able to trade you know, crypto and stock and n

545
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 1: f t s all in one place. T zero is

546
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 1: set up for that to have Ice on the cap table.

547
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 1: And David goon is the is the CEO. I just

548
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 1: think bothes really really well, well, how long will you

549
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 1: will overstall Cremaine a key investor. What is your feel

550
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: forward looking plan in this respect? So we have interests

551
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 1: investments in twenty one different blockchain companies. About a year

552
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: ago we formed a limited partnership and helling On Ventures,

553
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 1: which is a venture capital firm, is the general partner

554
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:38,719
Speaker 1: of that fund and it manages or oversees those uh

555
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 1: twenty one companies, including T zero. Hellyan was instrumental in

556
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: closing this deal with David Goon and Ice and so,

557
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 1: uh we're letting Hellian manage the exits and how those

558
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 1: things work within that fund. But I see a long,

559
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 1: strong future for T zero, really fascinating and being able

560
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 1: to talk about the consumer and indeed the rock Chane

561
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 1: Well were you all at the same time Overstock CEO

562
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 1: Jonathan Johnson stay well in Salt Lake City. Meanwhile, coming

563
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 1: up Crypto and Washington is a relationship between the industry

564
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 1: and the Hill all that transparent we're talking about, well

565
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: the swapping of talent from one to the other as

566
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 1: Bloomberg and is of course time now for our Crypto report,

567
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 1: and we want to dive into the relationship between crypto

568
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 1: and Capitol Hill because well, sen since I was getting

569
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 1: more entangled people increasingly moving between jobs and crypto and

570
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: the government agencies that actually police that very industry. Well,

571
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 1: there's therefore the potential for conflicts of interest. They seem

572
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 1: to be growing and could it potentially undermine efforts to

573
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 1: really regulate the sector. There's been a deep dive done

574
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 1: by my colleague and Bloomberg, Allison Verse Brill, and you

575
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 1: join me now, Allison, to really talk about the data

576
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: being crunched by the Tech Transparency Project. What do they

577
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 1: make of the amount that she has scale of the

578
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 1: revolving duel between Capital Hillen CRYPTI. So they characterized this

579
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: as as really an explosion and an activity in recent years.

580
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:15,479
Speaker 1: Um you know, I talked to them a little bit

581
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 1: about when they started analyzing this data and they said,

582
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: you know, it was slow to start, and now we're

583
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 1: seeing more and more of it. And I can tell

584
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 1: you from personal experience having covered this now for a

585
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 1: couple of months that on a near regular basis, I'm

586
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 1: getting announcements about first mal shifts, you know, individuals moving

587
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 1: from jobs at the White House, regulators UH into companies

588
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 1: like Finance, coin Base, um or or groups that lobby

589
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 1: or represent them at law firms. Do is there a date,

590
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 1: Is there a time? Is there a tipping point that

591
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 1: in started this move? Do you think so? You know,

592
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 1: I talked to the director of the Tech Transparency Project

593
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 1: and she said they started looking at that as far

594
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: back as UM but that there wasn't really a you know,

595
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 1: grow in this until and that we've just started to

596
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 1: see that increase since then. And I can also say

597
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 1: that the infrastructure bill that was passed last year contained

598
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 1: some provisions of crypto industry didn't didn't like all that much,

599
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: and that's definitely spurred some some activities, some moves, uh

600
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 1: you know, also on the lobbying side. So seeing a

601
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: lot of that going back to that time when it

602
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 1: was that particular bill that took I mean, a lawful

603
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 1: lot of people by surprise that they suddenly were really

604
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 1: doubling down on the crypto space. And we did a

605
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 1: lot of number crunching then about the sheer lack of

606
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 1: lobbying and the money that is spent by other industry

607
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: groups visa VI crypto, and it was just paled into

608
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 1: in comparison. They had hardly anyone up on Capitol Hill

609
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: fighting for them. Is that now really changing, and what

610
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 1: are the concerns being highlighted by this particular bit of reporting.

611
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 1: So that's definitely changing. We're seeing, um, you know, we're

612
00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: seeing superpacks that are designated just to crypto. We're seeing um,

613
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 1: you know, companies like coin base and and others beating

614
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 1: up their lobbying height, hiring more outside firms. Um. So

615
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 1: in general, we're just seeing a lot more money flooding

616
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 1: into Washington. And that was really one of the concerns

617
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 1: that was raised in this report. They said, you know,

618
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 1: having this greater flow of former regulators into the industry

619
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 1: or vice versa, you know, could have potentially impact the

620
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 1: regulatory process um and prevent the rules from being as

621
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 1: tight as they should be. And for full disclosure, my

622
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:31,839
Speaker 1: husband is a senior manager over at coin base, so

623
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 1: when I highlight that fact, But I'm interested in whether

624
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 1: this is unique or not. I mean, is this kind

625
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 1: of what happens. Crypto is so unique because of the

626
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 1: sheer scale of money that was being made and I

627
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 1: can imagine that an awful lot of you know, money,

628
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:45,760
Speaker 1: once we put to work to ensure that the industry,

629
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 1: they will believe and survives. But what about a revolving

630
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 1: door between Capitol Hill and other industry groups, other lobbying areas.

631
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 1: UM this, I will say, this is one area where

632
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 1: crypto is definitely not unique. We see that at in

633
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 1: all different types of sectors. We see it in banking,

634
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 1: we see it in tax um. I think pretty timely actually,

635
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 1: we saw a pair of lawmakers, including Senator Liz Warren,

636
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:13,479
Speaker 1: asking for an investigation into sort of the a flow

637
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 1: of officials from large accounting firms into the I R

638
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 1: S and Treasury and back and how that impacts tax rules. UM. So,

639
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,919
Speaker 1: definitely a common trend all across different sectors. I think

640
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 1: the one difference is that this is now a growing

641
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 1: trend in crypto, which is such a new industry, and

642
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:31,840
Speaker 1: it really reflects that it's gaining more maturity and it's

643
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 1: you know, getting more influence in Washington as investment. Thank

644
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 1: you so much for being us the insights on that

645
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 1: revolving deal. We thank you. What it will take is

646
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 1: not just simply putting simple bandages and putting in programs,

647
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:58,760
Speaker 1: so to speak. It's about fundamentally, um redesigning the culture

648
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:01,800
Speaker 1: that exists with thee. The old way of doing things

649
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 1: is no longer the way of the future. The data

650
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,919
Speaker 1: shows that individuals from the historically excluded communities are having

651
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,720
Speaker 1: a different experience. That it also starts with the data,

652
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 1: and that will help us think about strategies and solutions.

653
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 1: We have to address some of the root problems. At

654
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,720
Speaker 1: the moment, what we do is play like diversity musical chairs,

655
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:22,319
Speaker 1: and at the end of the day, we have to

656
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 1: expand the actual cool of that talent itself by addressing

657
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 1: educational equities and other systemic variants. Some of the d

658
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 1: I experts from Uber to Spotify to Snapchat talking about

659
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 1: really tackling discrimination in the tech industry and well as

660
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 1: one of the key goals of my next guest to

661
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 1: Twilio is out with its own annual Impact and d

662
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 1: I report just today talking about how business leaders and

663
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 1: corporations need to think about doing good overall. CEO Jeff

664
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,440
Speaker 1: Lawson and say is joining us now, And I mean

665
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 1: so focused are you on this that you're taking time

666
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,880
Speaker 1: out of your well deserved break. So we appreciate that, Jeff,

667
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 1: and I'm interested about really the findings what business responsibility

668
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,320
Speaker 1: means to you at Twilio. Now, Yeah, thank you go,

669
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: And I mean it's um really interesting when I think

670
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 1: about the contract, the social contract between our society and companies.

671
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 1: The idea is that companies make our society better, and

672
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:17,879
Speaker 1: that's why we allow things like a piece of paper

673
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,320
Speaker 1: files from the state of Delaware or in Dublin can

674
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 1: own property and earn the contracts and all sorts of

675
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: interesting things. And historically we've said, well, it makes society

676
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 1: better because you know, increases production and increases jobs and

677
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 1: things like that, and companies big process. But I actually

678
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 1: think now society is asking more from that contract. We

679
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 1: a tilio have this belief that our existence should make

680
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 1: communities around us and society overall stronger because we exist.

681
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 1: And that's a multifaceted aspect of this contract that I

682
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 1: think goes well beyond what you know, the last generation

683
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 1: of business leaders thought that it was really just about

684
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 1: making a profit. It's also a lot about the data.

685
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 1: How you ensure that you are gaining true diversity, How

686
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 1: indeed you ask saying that pay equality is coming about,

687
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 1: how are you tracking the impact that you make from

688
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 1: an environmental perspective, a social perspective, a governance perspective. Well,

689
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 1: obviously we try to track our impact along all those aspects.

690
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 1: But you know, we do it not to have like

691
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 1: the number to show now we are transparent about the

692
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 1: impact that we're having, but we actually use Like when

693
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 1: you think about d E I A lot of companies

694
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 1: think about, oh, this data, we have to put it

695
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 1: out there to to to to prove something to the world. Um,

696
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,280
Speaker 1: what we think about it is the data is necessary,

697
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 1: but you use the data to move, not prove. You

698
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,800
Speaker 1: use the data to impact your activities and to drive

699
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 1: how you're building the company, to make a company that

700
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,439
Speaker 1: is ever more inclusive and ever more diverse. And that's

701
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 1: how we think about using data. Okay, So can you

702
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:45,319
Speaker 1: give us an example. I mean, I know that you've

703
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,839
Speaker 1: been in particular helping certain non for profits organizations sort

704
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:53,320
Speaker 1: of and align themselves with you and with other businesses.

705
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 1: Is that can you give us like exact data of

706
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:58,240
Speaker 1: how you're doing it. I'll give you another example. And business,

707
00:38:58,239 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 1: what do we do? We set goals and we put

708
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 1: our mind to which eating them. So when the vaccine

709
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 1: for COVID came out last year, we set a goal

710
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: to help vaccinate a billion people worldwide and we and

711
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 1: we put to work our product, our technology, we put

712
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,239
Speaker 1: to work our people and their volunteer time and the

713
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 1: resources are funding from the company. And as a result

714
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 1: of that, already just a year in we have already

715
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 1: helped to vaccinate three fifty million people and that is

716
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 1: a huge number, but we've just started a third of

717
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 1: the way hey to our goal of a billion. But

718
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 1: we did that by partnering with organizations who are on

719
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,959
Speaker 1: the ground, like Dovey, who is out there trying to

720
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 1: vaccinate people in poorer countries that don't have readily access

721
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 1: to the vaccine. And so we donated ten million dollars

722
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 1: to gather were the second largest corporation to donate to

723
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 1: that cause um And so I'm very proud of what

724
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 1: Toyo has done. And it's just another example of how

725
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:48,799
Speaker 1: we set goals and we use data to move to

726
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 1: get outcomes that we want as opposed to just to

727
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:53,839
Speaker 1: try and prove something. Do you have that it sort

728
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 1: of disrupts from within? And are you leading my example

729
00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 1: in some way? And how you seeing other companies embrace

730
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 1: what you often use your own tools to do the

731
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 1: same sort of thing. You know, the opposite of trying

732
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 1: to have a monopoly on doing good. We actually want

733
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 1: to open source any idea that we have and help

734
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 1: other people to do good as well. You know, one

735
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 1: of the last pages of our impact report that we

736
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,879
Speaker 1: released today actually says our lessons learned in this past year,

737
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 1: and it talks about some of the things that you know,

738
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 1: mistakes we've made and learned from it and hopes that

739
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 1: other people can do that. Another example is we started

740
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 1: a program called we Pledge one Percent. It's a program

741
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 1: for our employees to pledge one percent of their time,

742
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 1: their income, or their totally out equity to do good

743
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 1: in the world for nonprofits. And we help them to

744
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 1: execute that by giving them ideas, help them donate the

745
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 1: equity effects that they want to do. And we've open

746
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,319
Speaker 1: sourcens and invited any other company who wants to bring

747
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 1: this program to their employees as well. And so far

748
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 1: we've got dozens of companies including at Lastian and Zoom

749
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 1: and many others who have actually brought this program to

750
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 1: their employees well. And now we've got tens of thousands

751
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 1: of employees at of variety of different companies, all participating

752
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 1: by giving one percent of their resource just to do good. Interestingly,

753
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,319
Speaker 1: do you think that it sets you apart from a

754
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 1: talent perspective, and you're getting that feedback that people are

755
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 1: coming to Twilio because of this or is this sort

756
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 1: of an added benefit quote unquote if you know what

757
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:14,799
Speaker 1: I mean. Well, we've made impact a really integral part

758
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 1: of our business. At some companies, you know, doing good

759
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 1: as a cost center or we got to donate to

760
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 1: this so we don't look bad in the press. Right

761
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 1: at Twilio, that's not how we think about it all.

762
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 1: We think of it as a virtuous cycle. The more

763
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 1: good we do in the world, the more of that

764
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,320
Speaker 1: is going to engage our employees and build great awareness

765
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 1: and like high esteem for our company. That will attract

766
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 1: more customers, that will attract more employees that will then

767
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:37,799
Speaker 1: help us build a stronger company that then can allow

768
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 1: us to do more in the world. And that is

769
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 1: a nice virtuous cycle. And that's why Toyo dot org

770
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 1: at at our company is not a cost center. It's

771
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 1: actually a business unit, and it actually does business to

772
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 1: get our product into the hands of nonprofits who could

773
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 1: be using our product to do good at great discount.

774
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:55,759
Speaker 1: And then we partner with those organizations make them successful

775
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 1: and that allows us to them do more good in

776
00:41:57,640 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 1: the world and I think that's a new model that

777
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:02,280
Speaker 1: I'm very proud of having really elevate that. And just briefly,

778
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 1: I've got about a minute left. When you are looking

779
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 1: at billion people vaccinated? Is this very much on the

780
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 1: emerging markets focus? Because I'm thinking of our academs who

781
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 1: are in the Union in New York. Potentially you're not

782
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:12,760
Speaker 1: needing people to be vaccinated to go out to restaurants

783
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 1: and the like. Well, you know, think about it. A

784
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 1: lot of this is in emerging countries where there isn't

785
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,400
Speaker 1: as easy access to vaccines. And we're very happy to

786
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 1: partner with a number of organizations sort of doing amazing

787
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:26,799
Speaker 1: work like Save the Children's another great organization with something

788
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:28,880
Speaker 1: to educate the world on the safety of these vaccines.

789
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:32,400
Speaker 1: But even here in the United States and other wealthier countries,

790
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 1: you still see vaccine hesitancy. We still have a huge

791
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:39,480
Speaker 1: effort to mobilize and get even the US population vaccinated,

792
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 1: and we're still not done, obviously, And so I see

793
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 1: this as a as an effort that truly spends the world.

794
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 1: Jeff Lawson, so great to speak with you. Thank you.

795
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 1: Go back to your break now, really appreciate the time.

796
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 1: Trilio CEO. Meanwhile, what does it for this edition of

797
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 1: bloom Bag Technology? Join us tomorrow. We're gonna be joining

798
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 1: John Woo, the president of Ava Labs, to talk about

799
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:00,799
Speaker 1: well earnings of crypto. It's the bring back