1 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: On this episode of News World, we have a great 2 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: opportunity to listen to one of the most impressive people 3 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: to serve in the Trump administration, a genuine patriot, somebody 4 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: who not only was very very close to President Trump, 5 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: but I can tell you from the standpoint of my 6 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: wife Calista, when she was an ambassador to the Vatican, 7 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: that she thought so highly of the job that Secretary 8 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: of State Pompeo was doing. He has had a great career. 9 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:33,919 Speaker 1: He previously served as director of the Central Intelligence Agency. 10 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: Before that, he was a member of Congress from Kansas' 11 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:41,599 Speaker 1: fourth district. He served on the House Intelligence Committee, as 12 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: well as the Energy and Commerce Committee in the House 13 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 1: Select Committee in Benghazi. Before he went to Congress, he 14 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: founded their Aerospace, where he served as CEO for more 15 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: than a decade. He later became president of Century International 16 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: and oil Field Equipment Manufacturing, distribution and Service Company. He 17 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: graduated first in his class at the United States Military 18 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 1: Academy at West Point in nineteen eighty six and served 19 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: as a cavalry officer patrolling the Iron Curtain before the 20 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: fall of the Berlin Wall. He also served with the 21 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: second Squadron, seventh Cavalry in the US Army's fourth Infantry Division, 22 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:17,759 Speaker 1: and part of my fondness firm is that my dad 23 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: spent twenty seven years as a career infantrymen soul. I 24 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 1: respect deeply anybody who got into that business. When he 25 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: left active duty, he graduated from Harvard Law School was 26 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: an editor of the Harvard Law Review. Since he left office, 27 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: I have followed him very carefully because he knows so much. 28 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 1: He's been so involved, and I've been intrigued with very 29 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 1: specific policy positions that he's been taking and laying outs 30 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: for people. Mike, if I remember correctly, you grew up 31 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: in California, and did you have any notion of a 32 00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: career track that has led you all the places you've been? Goodness, gracious, 33 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: new Thanks for the kind words. Of course, not the 34 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: Lord has blessed us America has been in a nervous 35 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 1: blessing to me and to my wife, Susan our son Nick. 36 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: That's why this public service matters so much to folks 37 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: like you and me. I grew up in Santa Ana, California. 38 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: Either my parents managed to graduate from college, but they 39 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: cared deeply, and they worked hard to make sure that 40 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: the three kids have an older sister and a younger brother. 41 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: The three kids all had every chance to be successes. However, 42 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:30,239 Speaker 1: we to find it, and I got lucky. I was 43 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: admitted to West Point, United States Military Academy in the 44 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: summer of nineteen eighty two, almost forty years ago. Now 45 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: we're goodness six, and that set their career path, the trajectory, 46 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 1: and so many things have fallen the right way for me. 47 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,920 Speaker 1: I've certainly worked hard, and I'm committed to the things 48 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:48,359 Speaker 1: that I've been speaking about now for ten years plus 49 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:51,079 Speaker 1: in public life. But no one could ever predict that 50 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: one would get the chance to be America's most senior 51 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 1: diplomat and America's most senior spy. It's pretty remarkable. You 52 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: had a very successful career in business, things were going 53 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: pretty well. What led you to decide you had to 54 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: run for office? Knew we were in a moment. This 55 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: would have been two thousand and nine. The end of 56 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: two thousand and nine. We'd a moment not unlike the 57 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 1: one that we're experiencing now. Frankly in the United States, 58 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: where we had a president office that was truly of 59 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 1: the core conviction that government could solve every problem, and 60 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 1: there were just a few more dollars taken from the 61 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 1: private sector, that we could fix all the ills of America. 62 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: Who had a progressive agenda for the United States of America. 63 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: It was impacting my employees. We ran a machine shop. 64 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: First business I ran made airplane parts and plays and 65 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: mills and sheet metal fabrication components, welding. The second one 66 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: was manufacturing in the oil and gas. It was impacting 67 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: our business. My duty to take care of those employees 68 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: was being impacted by a government that was running a 69 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 1: mockt was the days of Obamacare passing and the opportunity 70 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: presented itself in South Center, Kansas, and nine decided I 71 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 1: would join the team back in Washington. This enormous class 72 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 1: that came in in twenty ten not unlike the class 73 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: you saw come in in nineteen ninety four. This enormous 74 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: class that came in to try and reset America consistent 75 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: with the historic understandings of our founding. When you look 76 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: back on it, what do you think you learned in 77 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: your time in the Congress. The handful of things. First 78 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: is I was enormous beneficiary of the fact that I 79 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 1: was able to be on two committees that I dealt 80 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: with the issues that matter to every American. I was 81 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: on the Energy and Commerce Committee. We dealt with these 82 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 1: complex energy issues. And then second I had a chance 83 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 1: to serve on the Intelligence Committee, which gave me the 84 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: baseline understandings to prepare me for the day when President 85 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,919 Speaker 1: Trump call and asked me to be his ci Director. 86 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: I served on the Benghazi Committee. I watched an America 87 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 1: that refused to do the things that needed to do 88 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 1: to keep it to diplomats safe and secure. It's not 89 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 1: about eliminating risk. In fact, I would argue that the 90 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 1: State Department under my leadership probably took more risk than 91 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: the State Department of times before. But when you do that, 92 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,919 Speaker 1: you of the concommon duty to make sure that you 93 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:05,119 Speaker 1: do everything you can to keep those men and women safe. 94 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: And I saw that we didn't do that in Benghazi 95 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:11,040 Speaker 1: that night where those four Americans were killed, and I 96 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: was determined to make sure that we did everything we 97 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: could to decrease the likelihood that anything would ever happen 98 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:19,039 Speaker 1: like that again, certainly on my watch. So you went 99 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: from a very public job in the US House and 100 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: became America's leading intelligence officer. You'd already been on the 101 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:31,919 Speaker 1: Intelligence Committee, but were you surprised when you were on 102 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 1: the inside in the executive branch, had things you had 103 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 1: not learned when you were in the Congress, tremendously so new. 104 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 1: You can't truly gain the full understanding of the scope 105 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 1: and the scale and the mission set of the Central 106 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: Intelligence Agency, and frankly, for that matter, the operational and 107 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: analytical requirements of that institution, so that it can provide 108 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 1: this crisp intelligence for not only the President and the 109 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: Secretary State and the Vice President, of the senior leaders 110 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 1: in the Defense Partment, for senior leaders on Capitol. You 111 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 1: can't truly begin to grasp the scale of what the 112 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 1: intelligence community has to do when you're doing that part 113 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 1: time as a member of the intelligence community. So I 114 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: was surprised. I was in almost every case pleasantly surprised 115 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: by the professionalism and the esprie and the capabilities at 116 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: the CIA when the leadership was prepared to turn them 117 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: loose to do that good and important work overseas. I 118 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:33,840 Speaker 1: remember you raised the morale, and you, I thought, did 119 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: a great job of moving the agency, and then the 120 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: President reached out for you and ask you to switch 121 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: to a more public and in some ways even more 122 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: complicated assertment. As Secretary of State. That must have been 123 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:50,359 Speaker 1: quite an experience to walk into the State Department building 124 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: and realize how many things were now on your shoulders nude. 125 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,919 Speaker 1: It was an enormous burden that I could feel the 126 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,919 Speaker 1: moment the President first suggested that he might nominate me 127 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 1: to be the Secretary of State. Your point's well taken, 128 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:09,479 Speaker 1: says a awesome job, no press, no fuss, no muss. 129 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 1: You're not in the President's lane, right. You're doing intelligence 130 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: collection as a purely fact driven organization, and it's out 131 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 1: of the public light when you've become Secretary State. Those 132 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 1: problems that are above the fold every day on the 133 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 1: New York Times, in the Wall Street Journal are yours 134 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: for the most part, their overseas. And the responsibility to 135 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: deliver to President Trump every day a set of proposals, 136 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: a set of theories, a set of executable actions that 137 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: we could take to make America stronger and more secure 138 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: was an enormous burden that I could feel every moment, 139 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: and all done in the public eye, all done in 140 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: the public space with a workforce that has a set 141 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: of ideas that are not always consistent, certainly with an 142 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: administration like ours, that was breaking them mold in lots 143 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 1: of places where establishment foreign policy ideas that we've been 144 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: stuck on for twenty thirty forty years, we were prepared 145 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 1: to try a different approach. Each of those things certainly 146 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: weighed on me, but they also got me up in 147 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: the morning excited to be part of an administration that 148 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: was prepared every day to try and make America better 149 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 1: and stronger and more secure. Well, I was privileged to 150 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: be with Callista when you and Susan visited with the 151 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: Pope and you visited the Vatican in Italy. The excitement 152 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: you had about going to your family's hometown up in 153 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 1: the mountains where I gather. They had basically a traffic jam, 154 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 1: because it's not a town designed to have a team. 155 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 1: The size of the sector estate a destroy, a second 156 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 1: is a detour. I really got a sense of your 157 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:41,559 Speaker 1: depth of heritage, of your feeling that you really really 158 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 1: wanted to go and visit the town, and you have 159 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 1: a feeling for where your relatives came from. It was 160 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 1: really really one of the personal choice of my time 161 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 1: in the four years I had this chance to go 162 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 1: visit the hometown my father never had the chance to 163 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 1: go there. He was still alive, and I wanted to 164 00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: see it and tell him about it and have had 165 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: a more gracious welcome. It was crazy. A town of 166 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 1: a thousand probably had a couple of thousand people there, 167 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 1: every one of whom wanted to give me some bake 168 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 1: goood that they had made. It was truly truly a 169 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: lovely day. You'll get a kick out of this too, nude. 170 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: This is also apparently the hometown of Madonna. And so 171 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 1: when we went into a small store, one of the 172 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 1: vendors handed us a little gift. I said, could you 173 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: take this to Madonna? As if we would, of course 174 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: know each other, and I am the second most famous 175 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 1: person from Pregentro, Italy. That's really great. And I have 176 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 1: to say, by the way that watching you work and 177 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 1: watching Susan work with you, you were very well received 178 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 1: by the Vatican, and I think that they had a 179 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: great sense of affection for the two of you. And 180 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: you know, people sometimes focus on the tensions of me exist. 181 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: I thought in your visit there were zero tension and 182 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 1: really a great coming together between you and the Pope 183 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:56,559 Speaker 1: and the senior ministers of the Vatican. It was a 184 00:09:56,559 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: lovely visit. It was an important visit. Were very clear 185 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: to me one your lovely wife or my ambassador had 186 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: done amazing work. The people and the Vatican and broadly 187 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:12,679 Speaker 1: in the diplomatic community there in the Vatican and in 188 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: Rome loved her and that benefit of the United States 189 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 1: of America tremendously a deep commitment. She worked so hard, 190 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:22,559 Speaker 1: and for a secretary state who travels in and spends 191 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: a day, spends a day and a half, that foundation 192 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: having been laid makes all the difference in your capacity 193 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:32,559 Speaker 1: to have an effective, important, productive set of conversations. I 194 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: treasured those conversations. As you know, Newton, the Vatican place 195 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: an important part in global diplomacy. We remember the day 196 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 1: as the Pope John Paul two and Margaret Thatcher and 197 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: rond Reagan, where the three of them worked together to 198 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:49,680 Speaker 1: deliver freedom to people all across the globe. The church there, 199 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: the Vatican has a moral witness to the world. Is 200 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: so important and it was a real blessing to me 201 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: to get a chance to spend some time with a 202 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: senior leadership there, with the Pope itself, to work on 203 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: the problem sets that can bread people around the world 204 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 1: and raise hundreds of millions of people from poverty and 205 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: nourish them both physically and morally. And I think you've 206 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:34,680 Speaker 1: done more to elevate religious liberty and too highlight the 207 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:39,559 Speaker 1: countries that are trying to extinguish religious liberty than any 208 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 1: person ever to occupy the Secretary of States position. We 209 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:45,679 Speaker 1: could certainly feel it in Rome, but I've watched you 210 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: since you left office, and you continue to focus on 211 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 1: this key question of the rights of people to approach 212 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,960 Speaker 1: God on their own terms and not as dictated by 213 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: the government. As you look back on how do you 214 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 1: reflect on that issue and it's netrality. Became very clear 215 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 1: to me early on when I was a member of 216 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: Congress that the connection between religious liberty the capacity for 217 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 1: individuals to practice their faith in places around the world 218 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: was important in its own right in my role as 219 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: an evangelical Christian. As a believer, the capacity for Christians 220 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:22,439 Speaker 1: around the world to practice of faith matters in individuals, 221 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: separate from all things geopolitical. But I also came to 222 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 1: see the deep connectivity between those countries that were rights 223 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 1: respecting and allowed religious freedom and America's need to intervene, 224 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: or countries that presented risk to the United states in 225 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 1: our way of life here at home. And so when 226 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:42,319 Speaker 1: I had this chance of Secretary of State, I had 227 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:45,559 Speaker 1: a great team around me, including Ambassador Sam Brownbeck, who 228 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: was working directly on those issues, and we built out 229 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 1: a set of understandings where every place I went, I 230 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: met with religious leaders. I met with a Grand Mufti, 231 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: I met with the ecumenical Patriarch and astabul. I met 232 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:59,680 Speaker 1: with the religious leaders of every faith to try and 233 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 1: vince those governments that the more space that they created 234 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 1: for their citizens to live out their understanding of faith, 235 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: more prosperous and more secure their own nation would be. 236 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 1: Not every leader believes that the authority in regimes are 237 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: trying to crush it. But I know in my heart 238 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: it was the right thing, and we devoted substantial time 239 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 1: to it, and I think that we made some real progress. 240 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,720 Speaker 1: You hosted some of the first meetings ever on a 241 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 1: worldwide basis, and that prankly fed back into Clister's job 242 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: at the Vatican and gave her a real tool to 243 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: convince the Vatican to look differently at the Administration because 244 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 1: of its commitments on things like religious liberty. I have 245 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 1: to report having watched from the embassy there. You had 246 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: an amazing schedule and you were all over the place 247 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,680 Speaker 1: all the time. When you look back, what would you 248 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: consider the really high moments, the things that you're going 249 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: to say later in life. We really did change history. 250 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: Now we're awful close to it to have spent a 251 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: lot of time thinking about it. Three stand out for me. 252 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 1: The first is the threat from the Chinese Communist Party 253 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 1: was something that I think many of us knew but 254 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: hadn't focused on in a way that was intentional, and 255 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 1: that meets the times. And I think we have moved 256 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:18,319 Speaker 1: the global consensus that the fundamental threat to the Western ideology, 257 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: the Western rules of law, the ideas of property rights 258 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 1: and freedom that we all hold. So dear, I think 259 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: we moved the world and how they think about the 260 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 1: Chinese Communist Party. This is going to be a long 261 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 1: drawn out challenge and we have to focus on it. 262 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 1: It will be costly, and I don't mean just in dollars. 263 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: There will be things that will fall the wrong way. 264 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: But if we don't take this seriously, if we don't 265 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: respond to it, much like President Reagan was able to 266 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: respond to the threats from the Soviet Union, and frankly 267 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 1: presidents both parties over period time. Response. If we don't 268 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: take the Chinese Communist Party threats seriously, we will live 269 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: in a very different world fifty or one hundred years 270 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 1: from now. And so I'd put that at the top 271 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: of the list. And the second one is the approach 272 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 1: that President Trump took to the Middle Ea. We were 273 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: multiple pieces to this. Everybody became familiar with the vision 274 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: for piece that we laid out, but there were three 275 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 1: pieces there. First was an unequivocal support for the Jewish homeland, 276 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 1: the people in Israel. We moved to the embassy, We 277 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: recognized the goal on heights. I made clear that not 278 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 1: every settlement was illegal. There were a whole handful things 279 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: we allowed American citizens born in Jerusalem to say this 280 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: was Israel. Simple things that were a reflection of reality. 281 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 1: I think that strengthened the Middle East. Then it was 282 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:33,520 Speaker 1: Iran saddened even this morning to be reading that the 283 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 1: United States is about to go back into a deal 284 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: that puts American lives at risk and certainly lives of 285 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: Israelis and Arabs Rodabi back on a path to a 286 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: nuclear weapon. And then the third leg of the stool 287 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 1: was the Abraham Accords. Which really flowed from this and 288 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 1: couldn't have happened absent the policy more broadly thought about 289 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 1: in the Middle East, and we not responded to Iran 290 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 1: and confronted them. Had we not supported Israel, then these 291 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,120 Speaker 1: Arab leaders, who were very bold, couldn't have made the 292 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 1: decisions they made to recognize Israel. And it is undoubtedly 293 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 1: the case that the Abraham Accords NBC in the United 294 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 1: Air of Emirates, the leadership in Bahrain, you know, the 295 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: Bronkins in the Sudanese are all falling behind that in 296 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 1: the sense of moving in the right direction. None of 297 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: those things could have happened without American leadership that was 298 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: prepared to say, we're not going to let the Palestinian 299 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: authority have a veto on stability and prosperity in the 300 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: Middle East, so China the Middle East, and then we 301 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: talked about religious freedom. This is something that I think 302 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 1: will be lasting. Not only did we work on this abroad, 303 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 1: but we tried to teach our diplomats that there are 304 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: unalienable rights. We created a commission, We tried to go 305 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 1: back to a central understanding of human rights and how 306 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 1: global diplomats and in this case America's diplomats ought to 307 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 1: conceive of those rights in order to be effective. It 308 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 1: increased the number of rights respecting nations around the world. 309 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 1: I have to say, having been part of this for 310 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: a very very long time, I thought the Abraham Accords 311 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: and the degree to which you really had a breakout 312 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:06,240 Speaker 1: from the sort of frozen position of the last twenty 313 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 1: five years, and I think it's part of what aroused 314 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: part of the professional diplomatic establishment to frenzy, because they'd 315 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 1: all invested their lifetime in arguing that peace to the 316 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: region had to come through the Palestinians, and President Trump 317 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 1: reached understanding early on that the Palestinians wanted to destroy Israel, 318 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 1: not find a way to peace, and therefore if you 319 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:33,959 Speaker 1: were going to move the ball, you had to go 320 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 1: around them and go to the countries that had invested interests, 321 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:41,880 Speaker 1: particularly with the rise of Iranian hostility. And I think 322 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 1: what you and the ambassador and others pulled off was 323 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: like watching the ice break after a quarter century, and 324 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 1: it profoundly moved the survivability of Israel, and also in 325 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 1: terms of dealing with the Iranians, it profoundly increased the 326 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,919 Speaker 1: strength of the collective countries in the Gulf, and I 327 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:05,360 Speaker 1: think bringing in Morocco was a master touch. And that's 328 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 1: part of what I think. It's very hard for people 329 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: to appreciate in terms of the job you did. You 330 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 1: were doing a job in something like one hundred and 331 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:16,439 Speaker 1: eighty countries simultaneously. You never knew any morning which country 332 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 1: would be at the top of the list. If you 333 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 1: think about it, there's no other country quite like us 334 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,639 Speaker 1: in you know, maybe the British imparts very peak in 335 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 1: the nineteenth century, but the number of places we care about, 336 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:29,919 Speaker 1: in the number of places we were actively trying to 337 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:35,159 Speaker 1: help get to a better future, is just extraordinary. You know, 338 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,400 Speaker 1: I confronted that every day requires one to be focused 339 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:41,119 Speaker 1: on prioritize, It requires one to build out a team, 340 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:44,120 Speaker 1: as no single human being can deliver on each of these. 341 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: You know, the Abraham Accords are a good example. There 342 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:52,680 Speaker 1: were lots of hands, right, Jared Kushner. You mentioned Ambassador Freedman, 343 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: all of our ambassadors in the region. Frankly, General Abizade 344 00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: in Saudi Arabia played a key role, so did Ambassador 345 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: Recult in the United Remorrance. It was a real team. 346 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: Secretary Manuchem played an important role as well, all of 347 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 1: us working on that. We were doing that multiple places 348 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 1: around the world. It gave me the chance to try 349 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: and spend my time where I could most effectively deliver 350 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 1: incremental benefits to a team that was very focused on 351 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:19,399 Speaker 1: a mission the President set out for us. It is 352 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: a complicated world. I ended the last seven or eight 353 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:24,919 Speaker 1: months working very diligently to try and deliver on the 354 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:28,880 Speaker 1: President's commitment with respect to Afghanistan, so that we were 355 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:32,439 Speaker 1: never attacked there again from that soil by al Qaeda, 356 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: and yet making sure that we got our soldiers back home. 357 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:38,439 Speaker 1: I met with a Taliban the first time an American 358 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 1: senior leader had done that in an awfully long time, 359 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:43,879 Speaker 1: and started out a path towards peace and reconciliation. So 360 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 1: it is in fact a complicated world, one that American 361 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 1: has deep interest in making sure the American leadership is 362 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: present in those places. Americans will be more secure if 363 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,920 Speaker 1: we continue to be able to do that. You also 364 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:02,360 Speaker 1: had an extraordinarily wide ranging interest in hostages. It's astonishing 365 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:05,400 Speaker 1: how many places around the world I know. Syria was one, 366 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 1: Iran was another, North Korea where you played a direct 367 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:12,440 Speaker 1: role in helping release American hostages. I think people don't 368 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 1: realize that there are individual places in the world that 369 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,920 Speaker 1: are potentially very, very dangerous, and that Americans need to 370 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 1: be very cautious in going there. And we try to 371 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: put people on notice. If you go to our website, 372 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:27,400 Speaker 1: we identify risks, but it's not possible to truly appreciate. 373 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:29,679 Speaker 1: When one travels the world, there is a sense. I 374 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:32,160 Speaker 1: have friends who'd call me and they'd think, well, America 375 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 1: will just come get us if we get in trouble, 376 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,919 Speaker 1: and of course the world's too complex for that. We 377 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 1: did put a real priority on trying to get those 378 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: Americans who were detained home. We had a bright line 379 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 1: rule about paying for those hostages, and yet we were 380 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:47,920 Speaker 1: able to get more than three days in Americans home, 381 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 1: including Pastor Brunson from Turkey, Huy Wang from Iran, and 382 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,399 Speaker 1: then I did have the privilege of traveling to be 383 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 1: young young in making the case to Chairman Kim that 384 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: he ought to let the final three Americans that were 385 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 1: being held in North Korea come home with me, I 386 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:06,119 Speaker 1: was able to do that. It was personally just one 387 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: of the most emotional moments of my time to see 388 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: those three guys you remember out of warm Beer had 389 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: come back and had died from what they had done 390 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:17,160 Speaker 1: to him. We didn't know the health conditions of these three, 391 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:18,879 Speaker 1: and to be able to bring them home, to watch 392 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 1: them climb out of a van on the tarmac there 393 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: at the airport in North Korea, and to be ambulatory, 394 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 1: to be able to walk around was really quite something. 395 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:30,640 Speaker 1: You know. We are mindful that we didn't get everybody back. 396 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,880 Speaker 1: We worked hard on the Bob Levinson case with the Iranians. 397 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,159 Speaker 1: We were unsuccessful. There are still so many more that 398 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 1: we need to make sure that we get right. Were 399 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:41,960 Speaker 1: equally mindful that we didn't want to do a darn 400 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: thing that would create the likelihood that we would create 401 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:46,479 Speaker 1: it and send it for Hassis to be taken. I 402 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:48,640 Speaker 1: was proud of our record at both getting folks home 403 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: and decreasing the likelihood we'd have more Americans taken. In 404 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 1: that sense, the world remains very dangerous, and some parts 405 00:21:56,320 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 1: of what they're getting more dangerous, not less. I'm curious, 406 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 1: because you did serve in the House, and you did 407 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: run for office, and you sort of get this whole business. 408 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: What's your reaction to hr One and the whole effort 409 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:28,959 Speaker 1: by Pelosian, Schumer and Biden to radically change our election 410 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:33,919 Speaker 1: laws as dangerous, new, dangerous, and deeply and athetical to 411 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 1: the understandings that we've all taken as givens here in 412 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 1: the United States, right, we take as givens that our 413 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,680 Speaker 1: elections are run by state officials, that our election rules 414 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:45,200 Speaker 1: are set by state law, and that you know, we 415 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,359 Speaker 1: have county boards that do the canvassing in the county 416 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,159 Speaker 1: I lived at, you lived at all two right, we 417 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:54,200 Speaker 1: saw these county election officers perform their function. They want 418 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,359 Speaker 1: to radically change the way we elect officials, and I 419 00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 1: want to do so in a way that we'll have 420 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:03,680 Speaker 1: an unmistake will till towards progressive policy. I hope hr 421 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 1: one doesn't see the light of day in the United 422 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:10,479 Speaker 1: States Senate. I'm counting on that it would fundamentally alter 423 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: the balances that are so important to our republic, to 424 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 1: our democratic understanding of the United States of America. I've 425 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 1: I've talked about this multiple times. I also talk about 426 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,199 Speaker 1: it in the context of watching how other countries do it. 427 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 1: I've seen lots of elections now all across the world. 428 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,439 Speaker 1: There is no way that the United States should go 429 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: down a path of HR one, we will end up 430 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 1: looking more like countries that have elections without outcomes that 431 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:40,359 Speaker 1: we can transparently understand as being accurate and reflective of 432 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 1: the people's will. And we've got to get our hands 433 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 1: around this voting integrity issue. We all have to have 434 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:47,880 Speaker 1: confidence that when we go to the polls, our vote 435 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,920 Speaker 1: is counted because it's lawful, those that aren't lawful aren't counted, 436 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: and that when we get a number, we can count 437 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 1: on that number being true. HR one will reduce the 438 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: capacity or voter integrity all across the United States. You know, 439 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 1: amazing to me. I think ninety percent of American people 440 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 1: believe only American citizens should be allowed to vote, and 441 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:11,199 Speaker 1: they favor being able to identify who's voting. So you 442 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 1: have the Democrats in the House and Center right now 443 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 1: trying to pass a bill in which ninety percent, nine 444 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 1: out of every ten Americans are on the other side. 445 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: I've real curiosity whether or not they can sustain this. 446 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: This is the Corrupt Politicians Act, and the majorities against 447 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 1: almost every provision are astonishing. I've never seen an effort 448 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 1: to ram through a bill that has as much base 449 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:39,120 Speaker 1: popular opposition. You were always counting right, You always knew 450 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 1: where the head of the American people was. This mattered 451 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,440 Speaker 1: when you were the Speaker of the House. You could 452 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,439 Speaker 1: do a few things that might be marginally in the minority, 453 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,439 Speaker 1: but you knew you couldn't ram through big things against 454 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 1: big majorities. And yet they're trying to run the gauntlet. 455 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 1: It is so rarely the case that I meet someone 456 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: who articulates a vasion that says, sure, you shouldn't have 457 00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 1: to show a driver's license or an idea when you 458 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 1: go vote. It's fundamental to who we are. We should 459 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,359 Speaker 1: driver's license, we go to the airport. I did that 460 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: just two weeks ago. This is so basic in Americans. 461 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:11,040 Speaker 1: Just get this. Your point is both a common sense 462 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,400 Speaker 1: one that gets to our founding as well as one 463 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: of pure politics, which says hard to imagine how the 464 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,640 Speaker 1: progressive laugh believes that this is something that they will 465 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 1: be rewarded for by creating a path for a corruption 466 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:24,959 Speaker 1: or our political system. This is something that the American 467 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,639 Speaker 1: people will reward them for. When you take that, and 468 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:31,120 Speaker 1: you take critical race theory, and you just keep going 469 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: down this list of things that they're pushing. I know 470 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: you've seen the new commercial for the CIA, which I 471 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 1: have to confess the first time I saw it, I 472 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 1: kind of thought maybe it was a Saturday Night Live portrait. 473 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 1: It was so over the top, and it kind of 474 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 1: makes you wonder who it's going to attract to the 475 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:53,879 Speaker 1: next generation of CIA agents. Dude, I'm all about diversity. 476 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:56,879 Speaker 1: We want a wide range of ideas. I liked hiring 477 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:01,640 Speaker 1: kids from World Georgia and Western in Kansas, people with 478 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: work ethic, with integrity, with character, with a wide range 479 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 1: of diverse views on the world. But man, that think's crazy. 480 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: And I heard someone say that they've actually had a 481 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 1: lot of attention. I have no doubt that's true. You 482 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 1: know what that security clearance process is like, Well, we'll 483 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 1: see what that ends up looking like. The thing that 484 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:24,440 Speaker 1: was so disturbing and I've seen that two of these 485 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 1: is there's no discussion about America and patriotism and the 486 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 1: central understanding of who we are as Americans. It's all 487 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:35,119 Speaker 1: about division and what little subgroup I might be from. 488 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: This is radically at odds with the way that the 489 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,880 Speaker 1: CIA operates, and indeed all American institutions ought to operate. 490 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 1: I watched it too and it saddens me to think 491 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 1: that our institution, the central intelligence agency, that does so 492 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: much important work, has now just become focused on these 493 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: things that are deeply disconnected from its core mission set. 494 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,239 Speaker 1: I found it fascinating and I think it tells you 495 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 1: about the driving force of the woke left in this administration. 496 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,200 Speaker 1: Let me ask at a practical level, we're chatting during 497 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 1: the period of the largest pipeline in the East being 498 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:18,680 Speaker 1: closed down by cyber attack, probably with ransomware. I'm really disturbed, 499 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: and I've looked at the stuff since the eighties. We're 500 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:27,119 Speaker 1: really at the present time not capable figuring out who's 501 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 1: doing it, intervening and causing them enough pain that they 502 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: quit doing it. This is a continuing pattern, and it 503 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,199 Speaker 1: may well be that they are either private sector in 504 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:42,199 Speaker 1: Eastern Europe or that they are Russian supported private sector. 505 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 1: But I mean, shouldn't we be very concerned about the 506 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,160 Speaker 1: level of cyber vulnerability that we have? This is very 507 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,199 Speaker 1: serious business that you're right, I remember when you were 508 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 1: looking at the risk not just from cyber from MP 509 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 1: as well protecting this critical infrastructure our financial system, right, 510 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 1: the ability can conduct financial transactions, in this case moving 511 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:06,359 Speaker 1: energy across the country. There are multiple components to this. 512 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 1: One is the capacity just to secure these systems. This 513 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 1: appears to have been an attack on an administrator system. 514 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:14,719 Speaker 1: They get to an operational system where they can actually 515 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 1: turn valves and gates, you can imagine it, various transition 516 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,880 Speaker 1: points along the way, they could do real damage. We've 517 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,639 Speaker 1: been working hard, and the private sector, frankly has invested 518 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 1: a lot of money in this as well, protecting those systems, 519 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 1: but defense is hard to play. The second thing that 520 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 1: clearly demonstrates this was something on the order of forty 521 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,880 Speaker 1: plus percent of refined product that was being moved around 522 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 1: the country, so gasoline mostly. The absence of redundancy in 523 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,959 Speaker 1: that system presents real risk. And when you propose huge 524 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 1: regulations on providers of these services, they're going to go 525 00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 1: single threat. And when you have single threat, a single 526 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 1: point of failure, the risk that the hacking guys can 527 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 1: get a hold of it and do real harm to 528 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 1: the American economy increases exponentially. I'll remember You'll remember this too. 529 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 1: Nut folks in the Northeast. You had cheap natural gas 530 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 1: and you couldn't get it to them because they had 531 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 1: some crazy idea that this was an environmental problem to 532 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 1: move gas lines up and through the Northeast, So they 533 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: were paying two and three and six times the price 534 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 1: for their electricity at the outlet as people all across 535 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 1: the rest of America because they wouldn't allow there be 536 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,000 Speaker 1: multiple points of diverse energy sources. So I always think 537 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 1: of redundancy and diversity of sources as being critical to 538 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 1: protecting the United States from these kinds of threat. And 539 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 1: then the last thing new and this gets complicated, but 540 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 1: the United States for twenty years has been very reluctant 541 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 1: to impose costs on actors like the ones that engage 542 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 1: in this activity. We have the capability to do it. 543 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 1: These responses should be more robust and more real, and 544 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:46,960 Speaker 1: we should have more clarity about them, because it's one 545 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 1: thing to respond and take down a particular actor. As 546 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 1: you know in justice systems around the world, there's a 547 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 1: deterrence component to the punishment as well, and we need 548 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 1: to find and use the tools that we have to 549 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 1: punish these people in ways that others can see that 550 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 1: it's not something they want to repeat, a path they 551 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:04,240 Speaker 1: want to go down, that there will be real costs 552 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: imposed on them. And I think we need to rethink 553 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: how it is we imposed costs on these bad actors. 554 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 1: To what extent do you think these are primarily sort 555 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 1: of criminal gangs, And to what extent is that just 556 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 1: a cover for state based activities. So it's the case 557 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 1: that there are a handful of times that I saw 558 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:28,360 Speaker 1: war was just criminal actors, But when it came from 559 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 1: places like Russia, we found that there was almost always 560 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 1: a nexus to some element of the government itself. Sometimes 561 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 1: that was in the form of encouragement or acquiescence, sometimes 562 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 1: even deeper and broader. And so, while I don't know 563 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: the particulars on this, I've not been read into what 564 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 1: took place here, we should look long and hard, and 565 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: especially if it emanated from Russia, we should make every 566 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 1: effort to understand the connection to the Russian government, and 567 00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 1: if so, it becomes even more imperative that real costs 568 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 1: are imposed. But let me ask you one last topic, 569 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 1: which is the opposite of your foreign policy focus. You've 570 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 1: been out crush crossing the country and getting very very 571 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: warm reception from a lot of people. Since you've been 572 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 1: home and have been focused on America, what are you 573 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 1: learning from the American people that has sort of surprised 574 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 1: you if you watched the mainstream news today or picked 575 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,640 Speaker 1: up the New York Times this morning. The American people 576 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 1: get the joke about these news outlets. They know they're 577 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 1: not being told the real truth about what's going on 578 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:41,320 Speaker 1: in America. They are deeply concerned about the growth of government, 579 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 1: about how their kids and grandkids are going to pay 580 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: all this money back. I hear it every place that 581 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 1: I go. You know, I've been traveling in a world 582 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,240 Speaker 1: where when you travel in certain states, everybody's wearing a mask, 583 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,960 Speaker 1: and in other states if COVID never happened. They are 584 00:31:56,000 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 1: deeply concerned that this whole effort was politicized and was 585 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,960 Speaker 1: used to control people. And when I talk to people 586 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 1: who are in churches across America, they are deeply concerned. 587 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 1: For the first time in a long time, the government 588 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,080 Speaker 1: stepped in to deny them the ability to practice their 589 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 1: faith and to worship in the way they chose. Right 590 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: here in the United States of America. They are concerned 591 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 1: about this government overreach and they wanted to stop. I 592 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,040 Speaker 1: don't know if I was surprised by that newte but 593 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 1: the clarity with which the American people can see that 594 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 1: we have leaders now in both the White House as 595 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 1: well in both Houses of Congress that are intent on 596 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 1: creating power to government and not allowing people to live 597 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: their lives in the way that they would prefer well. 598 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 1: And I do think in that sense, the whole experience, 599 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,120 Speaker 1: both at the federal at the state level, has been 600 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 1: one at times almost capricious government behavior. The you know, 601 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 1: where you have Governor Whitmer saying nobody can use their 602 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 1: boat while our husband does and takes the family boat outdoor, 603 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 1: Governor Newsom saying nobody go out to eat dinner. Oh, 604 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 1: he goes to French launder. There's a whole pattern there 605 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: of people going, wait a second, how stupid do you 606 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,120 Speaker 1: think I am? You can't dance at weddings in Washington. Yes, 607 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 1: the list goes on. Yeah, it's just amazing. Well, listen, 608 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 1: I hope you'll come back and chat with us again, 609 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:17,440 Speaker 1: because I think you have a great future. I think 610 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 1: you're one of the pre eminent leaders who came out 611 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 1: of the Trump administration, and you have a unique view 612 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,600 Speaker 1: of both the United States and of the world. And 613 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 1: I think that you're going to continue to be listened to, 614 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 1: and your statue is going to continue to grow, so 615 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 1: I appreciate you're taking this kind of time that you 616 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 1: got with me. I'll absolutely come back. Bless you. Say 617 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 1: hi to Calista so on, I'll do it. Thank you, 618 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:45,240 Speaker 1: Take care. News World is produced by Gangwish three sixty 619 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 1: and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Debbie Myers, our producer 620 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: is Garnsey Sloan, and our researcher is Rachel Peterson. You 621 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 1: Our work for the show was created by Steve Penley. 622 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:02,200 Speaker 1: Special thanks the team had Gingwish three sixty. If you've 623 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 1: been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast 624 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 1: and both rate us with five stars and give us 625 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,280 Speaker 1: a review so others can learn what it's all about. 626 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 1: Right now, listeners of newts World can sign up for 627 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 1: my three free weekly columns at Gingwidge three sixty dot 628 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:23,440 Speaker 1: com slash newsletter. I'm Newt Gingrich. This is Newtsworld.