1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to 2 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much 3 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 1: for tuning in. Let's give a tippity tap tip of 4 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 1: the cap to our super producer, mister Max Williams. I 5 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 1: am the quirity of your heart. 6 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:45,160 Speaker 2: Yes you are, theory, oh man. I love the word 7 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 2: quirity as a word. I know it's not actually a word, 8 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 2: but everything words. It's American English. Everything can be a word. 9 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 2: I'm Ben Bullen, your no old brown. 10 00:00:55,840 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: We are we are indeed talking about the quirty keyboard. 11 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: If you are listening on your phone, folks, and if 12 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: you are in a safe place you're not driving, why 13 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: not pull up your text message app and look at 14 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: the little clickity clack keyboard on there. There is a 15 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: very high likelihood that at the top left of that 16 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 1: keyboard you will see the following letters Q W, E 17 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: R T. Why in that order? Why that's today? Because 18 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 1: we like you? Yeah right, because we like you. Yeah, 19 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 1: it's Queerity. Is the keyboard layout on your laptop, it's 20 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: on your phone, It's freaking everywhere, And we kid you not, folks. 21 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 1: The design makes no sense, nol. This is actually something 22 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: that I was talking about with Dylan's new dad, Mister 23 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: McKenzie suggested this episode. So, mister m if you're tuning in, 24 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: great idea. 25 00:01:56,600 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 2: Sir, love that all in the family here on ridiculous. 26 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. 27 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 2: It's one of those things though, where I think we 28 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 2: all had a moment when we were young where we 29 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 2: thought we were real clever for noticing that the keyboard 30 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:10,239 Speaker 2: was not in alphabetical order. 31 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 1: Look at us being observant and stuff. Right, yeah, Oh, 32 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 1: and we you mentioned that's Dylan Fagot. It's good to do. Yeah, Dylan, Dylan. 33 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:28,639 Speaker 1: It Dylan. Yeah, it's Dylan. Oh yeah, you guys, So 34 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:29,239 Speaker 1: who's here? 35 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 2: Oh he's my friend. 36 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 1: God, that's a fun w Yeah, Dylan, good friend of 37 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:46,919 Speaker 1: the show, recently entered into a marriage. It's true, it's true. 38 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 2: But did you guys ever have did you guys have 39 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:50,799 Speaker 2: that aha moment or you patted yourself on the back 40 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 2: for Wait a minute, I'm so clever for noticing this. 41 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: What's what gives? I was twenty three? 42 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,359 Speaker 2: There you go, Hey, guys, I still have to look 43 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 2: up how to tie it tie on YouTube. There's no 44 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 2: shame in any of this stuff. 45 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 1: I thought there was a secret message encoded in the 46 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: keyboard layout. The young Ben Bullen concluded that was the 47 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 1: only reason you would put these letters in this order. 48 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 1: That Ben Bullen was incorrect, but it is. It is 49 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: something that seems rife with questions, does it not? And 50 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: people have that moment of epiphany you were describing NOL. 51 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,080 Speaker 1: If you were to look at a standard keyboard layout 52 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 1: for a computer phone today, you will clock that the 53 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: letters are not arranged in alphabetical order. The querity keyboard 54 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 1: is called the quarity keyboard because it's named for those 55 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: six letters in the top left, just under the numbers, 56 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: reading left to right. Here's the thing, Though everybody knows 57 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: there are theoretically more efficient keyboard layouts available, why don't 58 00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: you just put all the commonly used letters to get well? 59 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 2: And you know, with the advents of the iPhone, for example, 60 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 2: and the evolution of the communication on those devices or whatever. 61 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 2: If Android does also applies to you, you can sub 62 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 2: in different keyboard layouts pretty easily. You can get custom 63 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 2: keyboard layouts. You know, the world is your typographical oyster. 64 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 2: And we will talk about some alternatives to quirty, But 65 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 2: why don't we first talk about typewriters. Yeah, because you 66 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 2: couldn't boiler, couldn't subend different keyboard sets on those bad boys. 67 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: Right, Even the default keyboard layout you get on any 68 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 1: phone in the Anglo sphere is going to be querity. Yes. 69 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 1: And here's why go back in time with us, folks. 70 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:57,479 Speaker 1: It's eighteen seventy four when Remington and Suns manufactures the 71 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 1: first commercial typewriter they call the Shoals and Glitten typewriter 72 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:04,799 Speaker 1: or the Remington Number one. 73 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 2: Didn't Remington also make guns, poppy cocks, baldered kettle, But 74 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 2: I guess there's a certain amount of machining that that 75 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 2: both devices share. But you know, the pen is mightier 76 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 2: than the gun, that's right, Ben. The Shoals and Glidden 77 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 2: typewriter or Remington Number one used a mechanism designed by 78 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 2: Christopher Latham Shoals and Carlos Glidden. These were two men 79 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 2: along with Samuel Sole, who patented this design, and in 80 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 2: order to continue in their work with you know, these 81 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 2: types of machines, they sought funding and Shoals reached out 82 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:48,039 Speaker 2: to a former business associate by the name of James 83 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:53,160 Speaker 2: Denzmol who encouraged Sholes to work on the layout a 84 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:55,479 Speaker 2: little bit the very thing that we're talking about to 85 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 2: kind of improve the let's call it ergonomics of the 86 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:00,919 Speaker 2: keyboard layout. 87 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,840 Speaker 1: Right, yeah, yeah, And we're getting a lot of this 88 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:08,480 Speaker 1: from our alma matter how stuff works. There's a fantastic 89 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:12,040 Speaker 1: article by our old pal Chris Pollette. Remember Chris from 90 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 1: tech Stuff, of course, were the founding fathers of tech Stuff. 91 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 2: I never knew him personally. I sort of knew him 92 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 2: as the Text Stuff co host of the past. I 93 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:22,360 Speaker 2: always knew Jonathan post Pullette. 94 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:24,599 Speaker 1: They made a They made a heck of a team. 95 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: Chris was a Chris is a librarian. Now he was 96 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: like that famously Taciturn president. Who was it, Woodrow Wilson. 97 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: You love that guy, right, I got my alliterations. Just 98 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 1: remember when it comes to Woodrow Wilson. Kim okay, guys, 99 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: really quickly off, that's a top from it. 100 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 2: It's a good beat for max topic really quickly, just 101 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 2: talking about presidents and and I maybe have mentioned uh 102 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:03,840 Speaker 2: In in discussing the much maligned Woodrow Wilson that his 103 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 2: boyhood home is in my hometown of Augusta, Georgia. And 104 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 2: Ben and I just took a little quick trip to 105 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 2: New York to hang out with our buddy A. J. 106 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 1: Jacobs. 107 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 2: Congratulations to AJ by the way, Bahamas the Puzzler on 108 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 2: his new book, The Year of Living Constitutionally. We got 109 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 2: to go to a really cool event that his publishing 110 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 2: company put on at the oldest tavern I believe in 111 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 2: New York City, Frances where George Washington hung out and 112 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 2: got tanked back in the day. 113 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: But while I was. 114 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 2: Wandering around with the good friend of the Show and 115 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 2: of You and I Ben Matt Riddle, we just randomly 116 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 2: were in the neighborhood where Theodore Roosevelt's boyhood home was, 117 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 2: and we took a tour and it's considered it's actually 118 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 2: overseen by the National Park Service, so we got a 119 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 2: tour from an actual facts park ranger in like a 120 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 2: New York brownstone which just seemed so weird, but they 121 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 2: rebuilt it, renovated it a lot of it from memory actually, 122 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 2: and you can actually go into all the rooms. Really 123 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 2: was like traveling back in time. Super cool like gas 124 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 2: lights type fixtures and all of the old furniture and wallpaper, 125 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 2: and it was really cool. So if anyone's ever in 126 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 2: that area, I highly recommend checking out the Teddy Roosevelt 127 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 2: boyhood home. 128 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: Nice. Was there a typewriter in there? 129 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 2: Don't think I saw a typewriter, But they did have 130 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 2: these washing basins because they didn't have running water. They 131 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 2: had like an outhouse. And one thing the tour guide 132 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 2: pointed out was the difference between being rich and poor 133 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 2: in New York was how many people you had to 134 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 2: share your outhouse with. So if you were rich, it 135 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 2: would just be the family. If you live in like 136 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 2: a tenement type space, you know, at like an old 137 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 2: school apartment complex, you might be sharing your outhouse with 138 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 2: hundreds of people, which would not be very pleasant. 139 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: And this is the world in which Christopher Latham Shoals 140 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 1: and Carlos Glinton and Samuelsoul were attempting to create this 141 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: stunning new, very weird invention. This guy, James Densmore, encourages 142 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:05,199 Speaker 1: the improvements on the prototype typewriter design. He also buys 143 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 1: out Carlos Glinden and Christopher Latham Shoals shares in this 144 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 1: great enterprise. Then Densmore runs to another guy, a guy 145 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: named George Washington Yost. Yosts I'm not. 146 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 2: Familiar with familiar with Yoss, and the two of them 147 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 2: then connected with E. Remington and sons, who were looking 148 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 2: to kind of diversify their portfolio find new revenue streams 149 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 2: after the Civil War when they because again Remington, they 150 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 2: did in fact manufacture firearms. And after the war wrapped up, 151 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 2: this is not quite as hot a market as it 152 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 2: had been. I'm sure people were still buying straps, but 153 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 2: they wanted to sell some other stuff that was maybe 154 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 2: a little bit more for the peaceful citizens, thereby being 155 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 2: interested in something that could be a communication tool. 156 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 1: Yes, towards the plowshares. Quite literally, they had the they 157 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:08,839 Speaker 1: had the manufacturing capabilities that you mentioned earlier machine stuff, right, Yeah, 158 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: they already had the infrastructure and the factories and the 159 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 1: ability to machine small parts. They had at this time 160 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: begun making sewing machines as well. Take that singer. They said, yeah, 161 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 1: well we'll make whatever. 162 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 3: You know. 163 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: We gotta we've got to keep our factories running, so 164 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: we'll make your weird typing device. And in an unsurprising move, 165 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 1: the ancestor of the modern typewriter, the very first typewriter 166 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,200 Speaker 1: looked a heck of a lot like a sewing machine. 167 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:43,839 Speaker 2: It is wild looking, dude, It's like a it looks 168 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 2: like something out of Hell Raiser. 169 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 1: It doesn't look like an invention. It looks like a 170 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: contraption like Doctor SEUs. 171 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,719 Speaker 2: It's like a sphere or a half sphere with these 172 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 2: kind of protruding buttons on these long kind of stalks 173 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:00,439 Speaker 2: with letters on them, but they weren't in a row 174 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 2: per se. It was almost this like weird like the 175 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 2: spherical array. 176 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 1: Right. Yeah, yeah, astute description. And I see on the 177 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: Hell Raisers stuff it looks pinheady. Yeah, it looks cinamitic, 178 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: so sinnabetic, yeah, like a cinemat So the the inventors 179 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 1: didn't want to use a querity layout. They originally, as 180 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 1: they were refining this idea and making it look less hellish, 181 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 1: they originally wanted to have a two row keyboard with 182 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 1: the letters in straight up alphabetical order ABCD all the 183 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: way to Z. The actual Querity keyboard was not patented 184 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:47,839 Speaker 1: until a few years later eighteen seventy eight. Remington's first 185 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:52,560 Speaker 1: typewriters were already on the market, and they kind of sucked. Guys. 186 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: Quick backtrack my mistake. 187 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 2: The thing I was just mean Ben and I were 188 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 2: describing was not the Remington typewriter. It was actually a 189 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 2: preda cessor to the Revings ten that came out in 190 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:07,959 Speaker 2: eighteen seventy called the Ramus Mailing Hansen writing Ball that 191 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:10,079 Speaker 2: came out in eighteen seventy, and the writing ball is 192 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:13,599 Speaker 2: an appropriate description of this thing we describe. The Remington 193 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 2: model totally looked like a like a sewing machine. It 194 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 2: was even mounted on that same stand that had the 195 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 2: little foot control, which they must have just had, I 196 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 2: guess lying around. I don't know if the foot controller 197 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:31,200 Speaker 2: was the reset like you know, you'd pull the thing back, 198 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:33,959 Speaker 2: or what it actually functioned as, but it sure looked 199 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 2: like they were just using the parts they already had 200 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:39,679 Speaker 2: to design the shoals in glidden typewriter. 201 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 1: One hundred percent. And thank you for that clarification on 202 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 1: the writing ball, which is neat and maybe coming back 203 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:52,079 Speaker 1: so invest now, but I think you're absolutely on the money. 204 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 3: There, man. 205 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 1: I believe that they had extra parts, extra components from 206 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 1: their sewing machines, and we're looking around and saying, well, 207 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:04,679 Speaker 1: we got to do something with these pedals exactly. 208 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 2: It's really a very what's the word kind of elegant design, 209 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:12,559 Speaker 2: if probably not as efficient as typewriters. 210 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 1: Went on to become Yeah, here's the problem. Speaking of efficiency, 211 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: the Remington typewriters are already on the market. The Querity 212 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: keyboard comes later. The issue is this. The machines that 213 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 1: Remington is selling use a mechanism wherein each key on 214 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: the keyboard connects to a metal bar with the corresponding letter. 215 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 1: You can see this in any typewriter layout today. And 216 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:44,200 Speaker 1: when you hit the key, then a linkage swings that 217 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: bar into a ribbon that is just drenched in ink, 218 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,559 Speaker 1: stamps it on that paper. Right, that's it, It's exactly 219 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 1: what it does. It hits a stamp. This is an 220 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 1: automated stamping machine. It creates an impression of the character 221 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 1: into the paper, which is of course behind the tape. 222 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: And then the bar like you hit B and then 223 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 1: kitching B hits the paper or hits the ribbon, which 224 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:11,479 Speaker 1: puts the ink on the paper, and then B swings 225 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: back and it settles into place in theory until you 226 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: press that key again. Max, can we get a typewriter sound? 227 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: I don't love that. 228 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 2: It's such a satisfying sound. I mean it truly is. 229 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 1: Now hit us with a ding onto the next line. 230 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 2: Wait did we jam? Oh no, we're jamming jammed. This 231 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 2: is a history jam. 232 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: I said, did we jammed? That's just a typo for 233 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: the show, and that leads us to the problem. Though 234 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: the problem is pretty apparent pretty quickly. 235 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 2: The faster someone typed, the less time there was for 236 00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 2: those little metal bars to swing back into his position. 237 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 2: So there would essentially be a lag that, when typed 238 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 2: sufficiently fast on, these machines would jam like not in 239 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 2: the cool, you know, fish kind of way, like literally 240 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 2: catch like run into each other, or they would just 241 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 2: become it would be like too much input and not 242 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 2: enough time for it to catch up essentially, right. 243 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, Because now you have one of the bars for 244 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 1: one letter swinging forward while another bar is already still 245 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: on the page right or on its way back to 246 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 1: its resting position. This is when the typewriter jams. And 247 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: this still happens with typewriters today, especially if you're typing 248 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: at a furious, you know, all work and no play 249 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: type cadence. But the popular story goes that Shoals created 250 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 1: the querity keyboard layout by purposely making it inefficient, putting 251 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 1: the most commonly used letters in hard to reach spots 252 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 1: to slow typers down and reduce the likelihood of jamming 253 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: the typewriter, And isn't that funny? 254 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 2: Ben, you picked a very appropriate subtitle for this episode. 255 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 2: That's just the way it is, you know, I remember 256 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 2: that will never be the same always. It's a perfect 257 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 2: example of a thing that was created to solve a 258 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 2: problem back in the day and has just stuck around 259 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 2: because of just that critical mass of history and people 260 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 2: being you know, sort of averse to change. But it's 261 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 2: it was designed to solve a problem that no longer exists. Yes, 262 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 2: and it was a system that was purposefullly inefficient, and 263 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 2: yet so many people have learned to type on this 264 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 2: purposefully inefficient system that nobody wants to change it. Again, 265 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 2: there are alternatives, but nobody wants to relearn to type. 266 00:16:58,000 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: And we'll talk about the whole idea. 267 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 2: Of how I'm learned to type, whether by just feel 268 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:05,440 Speaker 2: or by taking what is it mayb Us Beacon type 269 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 2: courses or what have you. 270 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you're right, and we are a gentleman of 271 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: a certain age, so we problem roll. Yeah, we probably 272 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:20,880 Speaker 1: did have homebro and typing classes. It's a weird one 273 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: and it could be intimidating to some people because again, 274 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 1: the querity keyboard makes zero sense. It's a little quirdy, 275 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: you know, I do like the idea of American English 276 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:40,680 Speaker 1: and querity and making it a verb or descriptor. 277 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,640 Speaker 2: You really courtied that now it makes me think of quirky, 278 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:44,719 Speaker 2: because that's what it is. 279 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 1: I mean, it's a little. 280 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:52,160 Speaker 2: Purposefully odd in order to solve a problem of mechanical parts. 281 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 2: That is so not even a thing anymore. There is, however, 282 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:01,159 Speaker 2: more to the story. The actual fact, to quote a 283 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:05,360 Speaker 2: Lauren Vogel bombasm of quirty was probably not Shoals at all, 284 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 2: but densmore, and the layout was most likely created so 285 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:13,679 Speaker 2: that common two letter combinations were on opposite sides of 286 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:19,160 Speaker 2: the keyboards or between the typists two hands, and this 287 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 2: version of the story would lean more towards the efficiency 288 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 2: side of things. So, whatever you believe to be the case, 289 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 2: this is this one of those history mysteries. We're not 290 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 2: one hundred percent locked in on which one is the truth, 291 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,160 Speaker 2: and both have you know, credence. 292 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, the truth is somewhere in the middle, most likely 293 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:43,239 Speaker 1: between the type of hands. Yeah, there we are. And 294 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 1: it wasn't too too long before other folks looked at 295 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 1: this querity keyboard and thought, come on, come on, surely 296 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:56,159 Speaker 1: we can do better. This led to the most well 297 00:18:56,240 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: known keyboard layout alternative, the divorce keyboard DVO R a K. 298 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:08,919 Speaker 1: And this is not named necessarily because of the layout 299 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 1: of the letters. This is named for its inventor, August 300 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: de Vorjac, formerly the director of research at the University 301 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 1: of Washington, and in the nineteen forties he was a 302 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: lieutenant commander with the US Navy Reserve and they got 303 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:30,120 Speaker 1: super into the weeds on keyboards. Man, there's not an 304 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 1: unnerdy way to say this. He got together, he put 305 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:37,920 Speaker 1: together like an ocean's eleven team of engineers, and they 306 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 1: basically played anagrams and they rearranged all the different letters 307 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,400 Speaker 1: and the symbols you would use on a keyboard. And 308 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:50,160 Speaker 1: they went through like two hundred and fifty different variations 309 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: trying to find something better than querity. 310 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:57,440 Speaker 2: And in case any of you classical music buffs out 311 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 2: there wondering, August Divorcee was distantly related to the check 312 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 2: composer ANTHONYE. Divorce Ack Nice. 313 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 1: Just in case. 314 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 2: Anyone was In case that was a burning question in 315 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 2: anyone's mind. 316 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: Yes, sleep well, folks, now the question has been answered. 317 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:20,959 Speaker 1: This crack team of nerds figured out that Querity was 318 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 1: one of the worst possible keyboard layout designs. If you 319 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:30,200 Speaker 1: were trying to make an inefficient keyboard, then you hit 320 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: a real winner with Querity. That a better worst job, 321 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: right exactly. Yeah, just like a Plan nine from outer 322 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: space or the room. They are perfect storms of awfulness. Yes, 323 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:47,160 Speaker 1: and this makes us think of the Querity keyboard the 324 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:51,360 Speaker 1: ed wood of keyboards. More than fifty percent of typing 325 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:55,399 Speaker 1: on your average Quarity keyboard goes to your left hand. 326 00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: Many many common words are typed entirely with the left 327 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 1: and it's something that a lot of us don't notice 328 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:06,399 Speaker 1: until you have an injury to your left hand, you know, 329 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:07,920 Speaker 1: being left handed. 330 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 2: I do tend to wonder if this makes it easier 331 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 2: for me this layout, because I've never really thought about that. 332 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 1: But now that I'm thinking about it. 333 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 2: My left hand is a whole lot more dexterous than 334 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 2: my right in general. And I never did take any 335 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 2: of those typing classes, but I've always been a pretty 336 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 2: zippy typer, and I'm realizing now that I'm thinking on it. Yeah, 337 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 2: it's that left hand that's that's scuttling around way more 338 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:35,640 Speaker 2: than the right. The right is almost a little filler 339 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 2: hand that just kind of almost supplements the left. 340 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: Hand to jump in. Yeah. 341 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 3: I agree with Thla as a fellow lefty that yeah, 342 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 3: I never thought about their way. Side note Editing a 343 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 3: podcast is a very right handed game. 344 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:53,159 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, and also use hockeys unless you programm in 345 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 1: those jk els, I got that, are you? Jkl? That's 346 00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 1: all right hand? Guys still give away the magic. 347 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 2: Oh what am I thinking? It's totally right hand? I've 348 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,880 Speaker 2: actually changed it to my left hand. So I use ASD. 349 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:09,440 Speaker 3: I know this because I, as you guys know, I 350 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 3: broke my writ right right over Christmas. 351 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 1: Right. I was alluding to this in a way. Yes. Also, 352 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 1: here's the way to think about typing on a Querity 353 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: keyboard for any hip hop fans, if you're familiar with migos, 354 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: your left hand is the person who's actually wrapping, and 355 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 1: your right hand is the person who's doing the ad libs, 356 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:36,400 Speaker 1: who's just going in and saying skirt. Yeah. So this 357 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 1: this is weird to divorce act because in his view, 358 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:45,679 Speaker 1: most people are right handed. That's statistically true, and the 359 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 1: keyboard as it's laid out under Querity gives too much 360 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 1: work to the non dominant hand. In his opinion. His 361 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:58,400 Speaker 1: team of engineers also said, look at how often typer's 362 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:02,119 Speaker 1: fingers have to leave that home row of keys to 363 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 1: reach other keys. More than three thousand words are typed 364 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:11,879 Speaker 1: entirely by the left hand, and the Vorzac took that personally. 365 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:17,160 Speaker 1: So he proved the quality of the Querity keyboard. He 366 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:22,159 Speaker 1: created his own alternative design. He said, I've looked at 367 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:26,880 Speaker 1: the evidence about how often certain letters are used and 368 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:31,640 Speaker 1: how frequently some common words are typed. Do you here's 369 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:36,120 Speaker 1: a fun riddle for everyone playing along at home, folks. 370 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 1: Can you guess what is the most common word in 371 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: the English language. 372 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 2: It's probably some sort of article, maybe, right. 373 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:50,919 Speaker 1: What is the most common word in the English language? Yeah? 374 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:55,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's to me entirely typable with the 375 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 2: left and no only that's that's the only way you 376 00:23:57,960 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 2: do it. I'm looking at it and I'm thinking, you 377 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 2: got you got me thinking about this in a whole 378 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,199 Speaker 2: different way. Have you guys ever seen split keyboards? 379 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:05,640 Speaker 1: Yes? Yeah, kind of. 380 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:07,720 Speaker 2: Wild, But I'm looking at them and you think of 381 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:09,679 Speaker 2: the idea of a split keyboard as someone that sort 382 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:11,159 Speaker 2: of wanted to think outside the box. 383 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:12,919 Speaker 1: Make things more ergonomic. 384 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 2: And yet I'm looking at all these examples of split 385 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 2: keyboards still totally quirty A totally except they split right 386 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 2: down the middle. So you've got quirt on the left 387 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 2: split and then starting with the Y on the right split. 388 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 1: And you get you wail exactly. Also quirity af I 389 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:37,439 Speaker 1: like that. So this guy to Worzak, he he and 390 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:42,200 Speaker 1: his team patent his design, then call it the divorce 391 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 1: Ac Simplified Keyboard. This is nineteen thirty six. It tries 392 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:50,880 Speaker 1: to minimize the amount of distance your fingers travel when 393 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 1: you're typing right. So the letters that you use very often, 394 00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 1: like the valve, like E or A, they're closer to 395 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 1: what you would call the home row to your fingers, 396 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 1: and the letters that you would use less often, like 397 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:11,719 Speaker 1: J or something or in a different spot. He I 398 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,160 Speaker 1: know it sounded like a throwaway internet meme joke when 399 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:19,439 Speaker 1: I said. He took that personally, but he did write 400 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:23,399 Speaker 1: an entire article called there is a Better Typewriter. A 401 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:28,679 Speaker 1: keyboard like this became his thing. De Vorzac had a 402 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,159 Speaker 1: beef with queritys so as weird as it is, and 403 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: he's kind of snarky. In his article he refers to 404 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 1: querity as this so cold standard keyboard. It's just weird. 405 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 1: I don't know why I was so mad. Yeah, that's fine. 406 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, anytime someone throws in so called, the implication is 407 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 2: that it is so called undeservedly. 408 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, nobody ever says so called in a good way. 409 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 2: But alas for old Devorzac, as we've been alluding to 410 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:02,360 Speaker 2: this entire time, the quirty keyboard layout out was standardized 411 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 2: officially by the American National Standards Institute, which I don't 412 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 2: think I was fully aware was the thing, least by name. 413 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 2: It sounds a little made up, but I guess it's 414 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:13,880 Speaker 2: the thing, and it seems like they got a lot 415 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 2: of power. The cordy layout was made the standard for 416 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 2: computer keyboards by this institution. Adding insult to injury, ben 417 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 2: the International Organization for Standardization. 418 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:26,120 Speaker 1: Another real thing. 419 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:30,719 Speaker 2: Another real thing, they I get. Yeah, it's like this 420 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 2: is more of a suggestion. I guess you can't really 421 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,640 Speaker 2: make this stuff law. It's also not the same as 422 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 2: engineering standardizations, right, or standardizations of weights and measures. If 423 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,400 Speaker 2: things are standardized, you know, in the field of engineering 424 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 2: or parts or whatever, that stuff matters. The sizes and 425 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:53,200 Speaker 2: functions of certain components, and whether electrical engineering or mechanical 426 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:55,639 Speaker 2: or what have you. They need to work for different 427 00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,359 Speaker 2: makes and models of things, and that stuff really matters. 428 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 2: But this idea of standardizing a keyboard layout, it really 429 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 2: is more of a suggestion. 430 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 1: And apparently there's. 431 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:12,120 Speaker 2: A rival standardization organization called the International Organization for Standardization, 432 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:13,920 Speaker 2: who lots of Asians. 433 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:18,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, I one hundred percent. I am one hundred percent 434 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: certain that these folks go absolutely nuts when they get 435 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:24,600 Speaker 1: together for a conference. 436 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,440 Speaker 2: Like a rumble man, you know, like like Michael Jackson 437 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 2: beat it when they got their wrist tied together and 438 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 2: they're like going at each other with cutlery. 439 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:36,440 Speaker 1: Imagine liking rules so much that you make it your 440 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,919 Speaker 1: job to be one of the people in a rival 441 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 1: organization about rules, gonna argue. 442 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,920 Speaker 2: We joke about being fun at parties, little self Deprecatedly, 443 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:51,360 Speaker 2: these folks not fun at parties unless they're standardization parties. 444 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 1: I bet, I bet they have a lot of fun 445 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 1: at your standard party. But dantek is maybe the word 446 00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:01,480 Speaker 1: that I'm searching for. It is so the International Organization 447 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:07,440 Speaker 1: for Standardization. They have a slightly different querity layout. They 448 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 1: have maybe additional keys for what we would call diacritics 449 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 1: like frequently used accident marks, your oomed outs to today 450 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:20,400 Speaker 1: and so on. Uh So, the question then, why are 451 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 1: we uh as a civilization still using querity one word 452 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:36,879 Speaker 1: tradition another couple of words path dependence. Path dependence is 453 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 1: a little bit of a wonky social science concept. It's 454 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 1: the idea that past events or decisions can constrain later 455 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: events or decisions. Yeah. 456 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,920 Speaker 2: I always refer to it as critical mass, you know, 457 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 2: like you know, a past decision has over time develops 458 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 2: this critical mass where you almost can't stop it or 459 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 2: slow it down because it's just entrenched and it's usually 460 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 2: just by a virtue of laziness, or alternatively, it just 461 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 2: has branched out into connecting with so many different things 462 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 2: over that time that changing it, even if that would 463 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 2: be a smart choice overall, would kind of screw up 464 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 2: a lot of other things and connections that have been 465 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 2: made to that one kind of bad thing over time. 466 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 1: So we see it in history all the time. 467 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 2: It's also the reason that maybe crappy companies that started 468 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 2: off the fact that they were the first to market, 469 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 2: that's all it really takes to be the best, or 470 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 2: to be like the end all, be all kind of 471 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 2: household name of an industry is just getting there first. 472 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And this excellent point, folks. We see this 473 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 1: history writ large in our local keyboards. Querity is around 474 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: because it is familiar. As we mentioned earlier, multiple generations 475 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 1: of people have grown up with this layout so much 476 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 1: so that it is sort of baked in to English 477 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: speaking culture. Most people would be baffled trying to type 478 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 1: on an alternate keyboard layout, even if that layout was 479 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 1: objectively more efficient. I mean, think of the countless hours 480 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:19,479 Speaker 1: of typing instruction, all the people companies and institutions that 481 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 1: have querity baked into their everyday processes. Keyboards on computers 482 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: don't need querity. They don't have the little bars hitting 483 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 1: the little ribbons getting on the paper. Your phone doesn't 484 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 1: need querity. It's just used because it always has been. 485 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 2: But again, you know, there are way more alternative keyboard 486 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 2: layouts than just divorge Act And if you so choose 487 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 2: and want to change it out, you can do custom 488 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:48,760 Speaker 2: keyboard layouts all day long. 489 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:50,239 Speaker 1: You know, you can make your own. You can make 490 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 1: you could make your own. 491 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,800 Speaker 2: My question is, especially since we have these sort of 492 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 2: competing versions of the quirty origin story. Is it as 493 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 2: inefficient as legend has it? You know, like because I 494 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 2: guess to me, it's like, I don't care. I've never 495 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 2: like been like, gosh, I'm not typing. I wish there 496 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 2: was a better way, you know, I'm fine with it, 497 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,480 Speaker 2: Like I don't really think about Again, maybe it is 498 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 2: because of my left handedness. I don't really think about 499 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 2: it as being fatiguing or in any But also I 500 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 2: don't type for extended periods, you know, like a like 501 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 2: a professional typist might. So I may be in the 502 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 2: wrong audience for this question. But what do you guys think? 503 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 1: I like, I love, love love the made for TV 504 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:34,720 Speaker 1: advertisement idea. We're cooking here. You know, someone's trying to 505 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 1: butterfinger a quarity keyboard and they see like a timer 506 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 1: counting down the seconds they're losing, and they throw up 507 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: their hands. You know, typewriter keys go everywhere, and they're like, 508 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 1: there's gotta be a better way. This this is You're 509 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,719 Speaker 1: you're right. There is a lot of sound and fury 510 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 1: signifying very little progress. 511 00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 2: It makes me think of you know, the layout of 512 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 2: a traditional musical keyboard is what it is because of 513 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 2: history as well, because of the original, you know, forte piano, 514 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 2: and it just became kind of the law of the 515 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 2: land in terms of like, this is what we know, 516 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 2: this is what a musical keyboard is. But if you're 517 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 2: a music nerd, you know you can find all kinds 518 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 2: of other weird keyboard layouts. Like I have a MIDI 519 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 2: controller over here that it's just a giant grid of 520 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 2: little rubberized pads and you can play musical chords and 521 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 2: notes on it because you can set it up to 522 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 2: play intervals on different rows. And there are these crazy 523 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 2: music keyboards that look even more complex than what I have, 524 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 2: that are like these almost like spherical grids with all 525 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 2: of these kind of ergonomically laid out keys where if 526 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,160 Speaker 2: people that are familiar with them and comfortable with them 527 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 2: can play fricking Mozart on them. So really, the world 528 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 2: is your oyster in terms of choosing which layout is 529 00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 2: best for you at this point. But when you buy 530 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:03,479 Speaker 2: a synthesizer, it's gonna come standardized with that, you know, 531 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 2: musical black and white key's keyboard layout. 532 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 1: I'm still on this made for TV commercial times gonna 533 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 1: be a better way act. Now there's a limited time 534 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 1: because this is all about humans using their hands to 535 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 1: interact with machines, and quite soon that will no longer 536 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 1: be a necessity. 537 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 2: Do you remember that scene and Back to the future 538 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,720 Speaker 2: too with little baby Elijah Wood where Marty McFly tries 539 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 2: to show off in the retro bar that has a 540 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 2: retro little restaurant that's like all nineties, nineties and eighties 541 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 2: of five rather and he's got that shoot him up 542 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 2: Cowboy game and he's really good at it from the 543 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,880 Speaker 2: first movie, and he tries to impress these little kids, 544 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 2: but his blasting with these guns and the little kid 545 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 2: look up to him and they go, you have to 546 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,800 Speaker 2: use your hands. And for the longest time I didn't 547 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 2: quite get it. But man, what a prescient little Easter 548 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,800 Speaker 2: egg of a joke in there. Right, it's you're absolutely 549 00:33:57,880 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 2: right then. I mean, we are seeing things with implants 550 00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 2: like this now that are starting to get actual testing. 551 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 2: People play in like Fortnite and stuff using their mind. 552 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 2: Maybe not Fortnite. It was League of Legends. 553 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:11,279 Speaker 1: I want to say that one guy absolutely crushed Mario Kart. Yeah, 554 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:17,440 Speaker 1: big fans. This also, this shows us something worth thinking about. 555 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:24,480 Speaker 1: This is the question that mister McKenzie suggested this episode 556 00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:28,960 Speaker 1: based upon he said, you know, how and why do 557 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:34,320 Speaker 1: these large technological innovations or shifts, How do they get adopted? 558 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:38,279 Speaker 1: Why do some shifts occur and others don't, even when 559 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:42,359 Speaker 1: there's a better option out there? And another example, by 560 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:46,480 Speaker 1: the way, spoiler for a future episode. Ask yourself this, folks, 561 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:50,759 Speaker 1: would skyscrapers have been built in Chicago where they originated 562 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:55,319 Speaker 1: if the Great Chicago Fire had not utterly wrecked the 563 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 1: entirety of downtown. 564 00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,319 Speaker 2: Oh, same question with Japan and all of the like 565 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,000 Speaker 2: rebuilding after the atomic bomb drops. You know, they were 566 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,320 Speaker 2: able to rebuild it in a modernist kind of image. 567 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,720 Speaker 2: You know, they had like a square one apocalyptic event 568 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 2: that allowed them to rebuild in this sort of futuristic 569 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 2: sort of I guess aesthetic. 570 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:16,040 Speaker 1: It's something that we haven't mentioned. 571 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:21,040 Speaker 2: Ben, isn't quirty pretty America centric? Surely the letters and 572 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 2: layouts and quote unquote commonality of words in Spanish or 573 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:29,040 Speaker 2: French or German, despite using the same letter set, aren't 574 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 2: in the same locations for those languages as they are 575 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:32,720 Speaker 2: for English. 576 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 1: Right right. There may be additional letters added, like an 577 00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:42,440 Speaker 1: inn key with a tilda over it in Spanish. They're 578 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:46,799 Speaker 1: also yeah we mentioned this is an Anglo sphere or 579 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:51,799 Speaker 1: anglocentric thing because English speakers are going to be most 580 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:55,520 Speaker 1: familiar with the Quarity keyboard. But also since English has 581 00:35:55,560 --> 00:36:01,600 Speaker 1: become kind of the lingua franca of international business, the uh, 582 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 1: most people who will mess around with English are going 583 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 1: to be messed around with the Querity layout when they type. 584 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: But to your I want to go back to your 585 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 1: earlier point because speaking to prescients, you mentioned, hey, is 586 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:21,040 Speaker 1: divorzac better though? Is it really? How bad is querity? 587 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 1: A lot of people did not agree with our pal 588 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:30,040 Speaker 1: Divorzac nineteen fifty six report by a doctor Earl P. 589 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:35,759 Speaker 1: Strong said, Hey, if you retrain people on the Divorzac 590 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:42,720 Speaker 1: standard keyboard, they're basically typing about as fast and about 591 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 1: as accurately as Quarity typists. They only get better if 592 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:53,360 Speaker 1: it's a very long exercise. So the US government Powers 593 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:57,000 Speaker 1: that Be concluded in what I'm sure was a very 594 00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:01,160 Speaker 1: spirited and fun meeting that they would not switched to 595 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:06,279 Speaker 1: the Divorjak keyboard layout because it would require investing in 596 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:11,600 Speaker 1: so much more new equipment and retraining literally everyone. So 597 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,399 Speaker 1: they said, we're just gonna stick with the thing that 598 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:15,799 Speaker 1: it kind of works. 599 00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:19,959 Speaker 2: Yeah, No, that's the critical mass argument once again, right, 600 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,359 Speaker 2: bringing back the word ball. You know it's funny though 601 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,120 Speaker 2: too Ben the word ball. I just meant to mention this. 602 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:29,920 Speaker 2: I think the modern typewriter uses this weird little lettered 603 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,600 Speaker 2: sphere that looks kind of like the big weird or 604 00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:37,080 Speaker 2: cut you know, yeah, which is sort of laid out 605 00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:41,319 Speaker 2: like the physical word ball, only it's micro and you're 606 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,040 Speaker 2: typing on a flat thing, flat keyboard layout. But it 607 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:49,560 Speaker 2: is still maximizing the surface area and the real estate 608 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:51,800 Speaker 2: that the ribbon thing or whatever it called where the 609 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:53,920 Speaker 2: letters or stamp takes up by putting in on this 610 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:56,000 Speaker 2: weird little ball that goes inside the keyboard. I think 611 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:57,520 Speaker 2: it was an IBM product. 612 00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:02,600 Speaker 1: Nice nice, And that's our show for today, folks. That 613 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:07,000 Speaker 1: is why the Querity keyboard exists. Big, big thanks to 614 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:11,000 Speaker 1: everyone involved. Special shout out first off to mister McKenzie 615 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:15,760 Speaker 1: for the suggestion big second, second special shout out Tom Hanks. 616 00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:19,840 Speaker 1: Tom Hanks is basically only an actor to support his 617 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:22,080 Speaker 1: typewriter habit is he a big collector? 618 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,440 Speaker 2: I bet he's got some he crushes type can we 619 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 2: really quickly? Though? For given thanks, just give thanks to 620 00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 2: some of the kind of also fun to say. Other 621 00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:37,040 Speaker 2: variants of you know letter keyboard layout, including quartz. 622 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:41,800 Speaker 1: Mm hmmm yeah, Quartz Classic and a zerty These sounds 623 00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:46,399 Speaker 1: like these sound like either whimsical cartoon creatures or top 624 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:47,840 Speaker 1: secret government programs. 625 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, or Colemack, which sounds a heck of a lot 626 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:52,760 Speaker 2: like a secret hidden character on Mortal Kombat. 627 00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:57,040 Speaker 1: There it is. Yeah, Yeah, the list goes on. Is 628 00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:01,439 Speaker 1: there another one you like? I like Maltron, Maltrod. Yeah, 629 00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:05,439 Speaker 1: I know Maltrod. Excuse me, I know a guy who 630 00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:09,880 Speaker 1: calls himself Maltrod maybe not to say parties. Yeah, I 631 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,920 Speaker 1: bet he is. Well he was what I meant anyway. 632 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 1: Tom Hanks, I gotta say this. Tom Hanks is obsessed 633 00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:19,920 Speaker 1: with typewriters. This is not a joke. He wrote a 634 00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:23,360 Speaker 1: book about them. His first fiction book was a I 635 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:27,719 Speaker 1: think a collection of short stories called Uncommon Type. 636 00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:31,920 Speaker 2: That's very clever. I bet he has some museum caliber 637 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,600 Speaker 2: pieces in his collection. 638 00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:36,040 Speaker 1: And honestly it is. 639 00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:38,680 Speaker 2: You know, you know, we're fans of weird museums here 640 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:42,239 Speaker 2: on Ridiculous History. Would not be surprised if there were 641 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:46,480 Speaker 2: a history of you know, the written word type museum 642 00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,720 Speaker 2: that has some pretty wild typewriter exhibits. 643 00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:55,799 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah. Also we know that Mark Twain, We know 644 00:39:55,840 --> 00:40:01,200 Speaker 1: that Mark Twayne. Samuel Clemens famously lost a bunch of 645 00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:05,279 Speaker 1: money backing the wrong typewriter design. He was not good 646 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:05,760 Speaker 1: at money. 647 00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:08,280 Speaker 2: It's fair, isn't that? The funny thing though about that stuff? 648 00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:10,640 Speaker 2: Like there was a time where even the singer model 649 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:14,120 Speaker 2: that we were talking about it was a wild gambit. 650 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:18,080 Speaker 1: Oh no, like the early days. Who's gonna use this stuff? 651 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:20,239 Speaker 2: It does appear that there is a place called the 652 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:24,479 Speaker 2: Virtual Typewriter Museum, and you know what, there's more than one. 653 00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:28,360 Speaker 2: I found an article on a website called Typing Lounge 654 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:32,160 Speaker 2: with a list of ten museums where you can see 655 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:37,120 Speaker 2: crazy examples of historical typewriters, including the Liverpool Typewriter Museum, 656 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:41,680 Speaker 2: the Chestnut Ridge Typewriter Museum, and Chuck and Rich's Antique 657 00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:43,120 Speaker 2: Typewriter Website. 658 00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:47,640 Speaker 1: Sold Yeah, sold, Big Big takes as well to super 659 00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:52,800 Speaker 1: producer mister Max Williams. Thanks to aj Bahamas Jacob, thanks 660 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:57,440 Speaker 1: to doctor Rachel big Spinach, lance Ower World expert on 661 00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,319 Speaker 1: underwater explosions. When do we interback on this shy we've 662 00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:02,680 Speaker 1: been talking about it? Hopefully soon. She has a man 663 00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:04,440 Speaker 1: book out and it's an absolute banger. 664 00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,640 Speaker 2: Are the king of esoteric nicknames that even the people 665 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:09,239 Speaker 2: themselves don't know where they come from? 666 00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:10,760 Speaker 1: And I love that was her suggestion. 667 00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,719 Speaker 2: No way, Yes, wait to spake spinach okay, fair enough, 668 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,640 Speaker 2: qushing up a little bit, Eves Jeff cos here in 669 00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:22,400 Speaker 2: spirit soon to be here corporeally believe, if not the 670 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:26,200 Speaker 2: next episode the one after that for a really cool 671 00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:29,640 Speaker 2: deep dive into her podcast on theme. 672 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,120 Speaker 1: Yes, uh, black stories are more than a fad or 673 00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:39,680 Speaker 1: fodder for opportunistic outsiders. Eves knows them. Eves loves these stories. 674 00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:43,200 Speaker 1: Eves is moved by them. They change lives, and on 675 00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:48,280 Speaker 1: this podcast on Theme, they cover these stories in depth. 676 00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:53,040 Speaker 1: With that, with that amazing critical interrogation, that is so 677 00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:55,840 Speaker 1: Eves Jeff coo. To be quite honest, we're not blowing smokes. 678 00:41:55,920 --> 00:42:00,680 Speaker 1: You know, ways harder than us. That's fair, that's fair. 679 00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:10,200 Speaker 2: Well, I guess we'll see you next time, folks. For 680 00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,920 Speaker 2: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 681 00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:16,200 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.