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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the best of Coast to Coast podcasts.

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Speaker 1: Become a Coast Insider to hear the rest of this

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Speaker 1: fascinating conversation, and check out recent shows where we learned

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Speaker 1: about scientific efforts to revive the Wooly mammoth, the latest

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Speaker 1: in military drone technology, and the mysterious shroud of Turin.

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Speaker 1: And you can listen to those programs and many more

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Speaker 1: amazing Coast shows by heading over to Coast to Coast

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Speaker 1: a m dot com and signing up for Coast Insider.

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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio. Michael gill In, former science reporter for ABC

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Speaker 1: News on various shows, and former instructor of physics at

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Speaker 1: Harvard as well as author and the new book is is.

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Speaker 1: This is great. It's the end of life as we

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Speaker 1: know it. And just before we went into the break,

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Speaker 1: we were talking about that that space in discussions of

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Speaker 1: what we should and ought to do, which might be

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Speaker 1: better informed by discussions of morality as much as ethics,

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Speaker 1: and and you know, I think even Michael, when you

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Speaker 1: were talking about about the idea of preserving a physical

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Speaker 1: life on this planet, like whether that was through uploading

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Speaker 1: a brain and putting it into something, you know, into

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Speaker 1: a robot or something you know. Even that makes me

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Speaker 1: question whether or not that's something we ought to be doing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, what is what is the endgame for that?

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Speaker 1: What is the ultimate what's the end used for that? Um,

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Speaker 1: other than our own human vanity that we become immortal. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I agree with you, Ian, And I think another concern

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Speaker 1: in addition to that is that a lot of this

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Speaker 1: technology that we're kind of we're talking about right now,

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Speaker 1: it's no longer speculative, it's actually happening, is very expensive. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, never mind trying to achieve immortality through some

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Speaker 1: of this technology. Let's let's talk about some of the

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Speaker 1: technology that is being used to let's say, uh, help

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Speaker 1: treat macular degeneration. I'm going to just pick that as

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Speaker 1: an example. There's in California, right there's a company in

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Speaker 1: California that is marketing uh retinal implants for people who

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Speaker 1: have macular degeneration and their eyesights going away. Well, that

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Speaker 1: stuff costs you know, upwards of a hundred thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: or more, and it's not covered by most insurance policies.

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Speaker 1: So a lot of this technology that aims at improving

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Speaker 1: our health, enhancing our health, enhancing our life, achieving immortality

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Speaker 1: is going to be available to the super rich. And

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Speaker 1: so you have to stop and wonder what is this

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Speaker 1: going to do? What what is this going to do

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Speaker 1: to the dynamics of a society when you have a wealthy,

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Speaker 1: super wealthy people elites if you will, um able to

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Speaker 1: to benefit from this, and the others are know, like

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Speaker 1: being put out of business by robots, and so I

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Speaker 1: talk seriously about in my book, I talk seriously about

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Speaker 1: the possibility of there being a human revolution. You know,

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Speaker 1: we often talk about in science fiction often depicts you know,

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Speaker 1: robots kind of rising up and revolting against humans and

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Speaker 1: taking over the earth. Well, you know that we can

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Speaker 1: talk about that possibility, but I think an even more

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Speaker 1: real possibility, the way this technology is shaping up right now,

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Speaker 1: is for people who have been kind of disenfranchised, um

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Speaker 1: are marginalized by this technology will just be get set

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Speaker 1: up at some point say you know, this is enough

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Speaker 1: is enough? I mean, we're we're taking and we're taking

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Speaker 1: it in the behind and and and and and we're

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Speaker 1: not gonna We're not gonna take it anymore. And so,

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Speaker 1: and it's interesting and I talk about in the book,

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Speaker 1: does Regnory know you talk like that? The people in

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Speaker 1: Salem know you use that kind of I mean, really,

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Speaker 1: I gotta I gotta be You're really on a limb there, know,

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Speaker 1: I just want to well, I figured it's a late

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Speaker 1: night show, so that's right. So you're gonna let your

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Speaker 1: hair down on no one. Okay, just leave. But you know,

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Speaker 1: never mind, Regulary, I gotta worry about my wife, you know,

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Speaker 1: hit outside the head to say what you said? What?

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Speaker 1: But uh? But but I talked about how a lot

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Speaker 1: of these guys from Silicon Valley are actually buying these

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Speaker 1: what they're calling bugout houses. They're buying houses in these

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Speaker 1: remote places in the country and in the world on

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Speaker 1: the chance that, you know, when the stuff hits the fan.

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Speaker 1: There I go again. But when the stuff hits the fan,

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Speaker 1: they want to be able to escape. And this is

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Speaker 1: a serious thing. I quote some I quote former Google

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Speaker 1: engineers and Google executives and others who say, yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: human revolution is a real possibility. Many of them are

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Speaker 1: trying to avoid that possibility. Now about talking about the

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Speaker 1: universal basic income. Okay, but hang on a second, listen, listen,

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Speaker 1: let's let's pausi sec because yes, the idea of having

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Speaker 1: a bug out house, right, that's like, I mean, every

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Speaker 1: every you know, Church of Latter day Saints person I

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Speaker 1: know has has that philosophy. Right, there's seven years of

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Speaker 1: stored food, and I know lots of other people who

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Speaker 1: practice that belief. That doesn't That's not the same to me.

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Speaker 1: Although I understand your point, I'm more thinking about I'm

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Speaker 1: more reminded of of, uh, you know, of what Jeff

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Speaker 1: Goldblum said in Jurassic Park when he said, you know,

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Speaker 1: the dinosaurs had their chance, right, they're done. They they

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Speaker 1: they they that was their moment. And the fact that

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Speaker 1: bringing them back is is to reintroduce say, living dinosaurs

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Speaker 1: just because we can is and the and the notion

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Speaker 1: to that. For example, when you talk about the wealthy

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Speaker 1: elites as opposed to the intellectual elites, or the physical elites,

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Speaker 1: or any other types of ways in which we the

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Speaker 1: moral elites anyway we could you know, uh quantify sinci d.

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Speaker 1: It's the wealthy elites aren't necessarily the best at anything

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Speaker 1: except inheriting stuff. You know, some of them might have

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Speaker 1: gotten it on their own, but not all of them,

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Speaker 1: and then if that becomes the class that's perpetuated, I

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Speaker 1: would say again, they had their chance this It has

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Speaker 1: to there has to be a Darwinian element to that

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Speaker 1: where somebody else is going to have to come along

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Speaker 1: behind them, or we turn into Eloi and Morlocks from H. G.

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Speaker 1: Wells Time Machine, right, m yes, yes, yes, yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: it's interesting. By the way, I interviewed Jeff go Bloom once.

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Speaker 1: This is just the funniest side. In fact, when Jurassic

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Speaker 1: Park came out, I was at ABC News and I

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Speaker 1: had been in touch with the producers and they invited

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Speaker 1: me to come to the big Hollywood premier and the

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Speaker 1: at the after party, and Jeff Bloom was there and

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Speaker 1: a bunch of other guys, and I went up to

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Speaker 1: I said, Jeff, you know you're always like playing uh scientists,

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Speaker 1: not just in Jurassic Park but elsewhere. And I said,

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Speaker 1: I'm just curious. I said, you know, did you have

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Speaker 1: an interest in science growing up or what he says not,

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Speaker 1: it's just a job, and you know he has the

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Speaker 1: I was at least disappointed in his answer. I thought

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Speaker 1: he was gonna say, oh, yeah, you know, I majored

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Speaker 1: in physics at college, you know, but just a job

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Speaker 1: for him. But yeah, it's interesting. I love you bringing

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Speaker 1: that up. In the dinosaurs had their chance, it's really

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Speaker 1: an indication of how the earth, how the world works,

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Speaker 1: how the universe works, or designed to work as designed

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Speaker 1: to work exactly. And you know, you know, you're somebody's

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Speaker 1: religious beliefs aside for a moment, let's just talk like

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Speaker 1: strictly science. Um, what what we learned is that these

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Speaker 1: species have a window of time in which they rise

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Speaker 1: up and they flourish, and then they die out for

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Speaker 1: whatever reason, whether it's a meteor or there it's a

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Speaker 1: temperature change, or or it's a rampant disease denomin you know,

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Speaker 1: like the Willie mammoths, the sabertooth cats, and sofath and

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Speaker 1: so on, uh and the dinosaurs uh and and one

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Speaker 1: wonders as as as you contemplate these innovations that we're creating,

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Speaker 1: the ones that I describe in this book, you can't

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Speaker 1: help but wonder what are we doing here? And then

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Speaker 1: I think of what Arthur C. Clarke once said, and

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Speaker 1: it's stuck with me. He said, it remains to be

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Speaker 1: proven that intelligence has any survival value whoa you know,

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Speaker 1: and you wonder, are we like outsmarting ourselves, you know,

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Speaker 1: are we are we just being too clever by a

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Speaker 1: half with the stuff thinking that you know, we're going

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Speaker 1: to improve life, the we're gonna improve the human condition,

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Speaker 1: and in fact, just the opposite happens. We do ourselves

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Speaker 1: in I mean, that's a real possibility. And and and

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Speaker 1: and and you think of Jeff Goldblum, say they had

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Speaker 1: their chance. Maybe some some creature in the future will

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Speaker 1: look back at us and say, yeah, oh yeah, human beings,

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Speaker 1: they had their their chance and we blew it well.

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Speaker 1: And and now here's something. Now, let me tease this

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Speaker 1: out a little differently, Like if there was a humans

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Speaker 1: killed off species, they didn't die out naturally. They were

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Speaker 1: killed off as opposed to say evolution, they weren't. They

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Speaker 1: weren't allowed to follow their evolutionary cycle. That was truncated

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Speaker 1: right by you know the fact that they you know,

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Speaker 1: some giant bird in New Zealand laid these really big

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Speaker 1: eggs that you know a human could eat off for

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Speaker 1: three days and so boom, you know, there's gone. So

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Speaker 1: I mean, I realized you can make a Darwinian argument

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Speaker 1: for that. But I think there are some species like

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Speaker 1: some like some bear or some tiger or whatever, that

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Speaker 1: if we cloned that bear and brought it back and

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Speaker 1: re introduced it to the wild, not enough time has

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Speaker 1: passed that it couldn't reabsorb that back into the natural

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Speaker 1: flow of our evolutionary cycles. Um. But I do think

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Speaker 1: when we start looking into the future and then we

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Speaker 1: started making all these plans of who's gonna be and

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Speaker 1: who's gonna not be, that's when I think it gets

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Speaker 1: super well, to use the word from your book, ominous,

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Speaker 1: but I think it goes down. I think it becomes

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Speaker 1: done right scary because who is going to be making

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Speaker 1: these decisions once that technology becomes more facile. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're you're you're raising a good point, you know. I

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Speaker 1: do talk about these the extinction efforts that are going

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Speaker 1: on right now. Um that primarily focused on the Willie mammoth.

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Speaker 1: And I remember when I was at ABC News, I

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Speaker 1: was actually invited to come to Russia where there there

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Speaker 1: there were a group of scientists. I think the French

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Speaker 1: guy was in charge of the group, as I recall,

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Speaker 1: and he wanted me to come up and cover the story.

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Speaker 1: I never got around to doing it. I got you're

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Speaker 1: doing other stories. But what they had done is that

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Speaker 1: they had carved out an entire wooly mammoth um carcass,

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Speaker 1: if you will, but pretty well preserved because it was

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Speaker 1: in the ice, and they were slowly throwing it out

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Speaker 1: like you know, with hair dryers and stuff like that,

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Speaker 1: a little bit at a time, with the intention of

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Speaker 1: trying to get their hands on some DNA, some you know,

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Speaker 1: frozen uh preserve DNA, and then the whole ideas to

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Speaker 1: then bring back the wily mammoth. And that's going on

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Speaker 1: right now, including a group that's being led by a

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Speaker 1: guy at Harvard named Church so Um. The question then

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Speaker 1: becomes do we I mean, you know, it's exciting, it's

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Speaker 1: it's interesting, it's it's like science fiction come true. But

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Speaker 1: then when you get past all that kind of the

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Speaker 1: bells and whistles of it all, you have to ask, what,

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Speaker 1: you know, do we really want to do this? And

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Speaker 1: there's an even deeper question that I raised in the book,

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Speaker 1: and that is, with all the genetic engineering we're doing,

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Speaker 1: and you know, the extinct these de extinction efforts are

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Speaker 1: do come under the category of genetic engineering. What we're

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Speaker 1: doing in is something that's never been done before, and

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Speaker 1: that is we are elevating recessive traits and we are

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Speaker 1: dominant traits. In other words, we are flying in the

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Speaker 1: face of the very forces that have created these species,

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Speaker 1: the evolutionary forces. We are defining the natural flow, we're

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Speaker 1: defining the natural order of things. And you've got to

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Speaker 1: believe that when you take on mother Nature. Remember the

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Speaker 1: old commercial you don't don't mess with Mother Nature or

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Speaker 1: something like that. Yeah, it's not nice. It's not nice

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Speaker 1: to fool mother Nature. Yeah, that's the one. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: not nice. I forget what it was. The commercial was margarine.

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Speaker 1: It was for Imperior. It was from Marjarin. Right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we know, no, margarine is not so great for us. Right,

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Speaker 1: But you've got to wonder that because we are doing this,

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Speaker 1: we now have the ability of elevating recessive traits and

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Speaker 1: suppressing dominant traits. We're flying in the face of Mother Nature.

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Speaker 1: We've got to pay a price. I mean, you can't

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Speaker 1: do that. You're you're you're fighting against you know, uh

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Speaker 1: billion according to science, you know, billions of years of evolution.

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Speaker 1: And were we to do that if we take it on,

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Speaker 1: who's going to be the casualty. I'm thinking we are

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