1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from House Stuff Works 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:13,119 Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, 3 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: and there's Charles D. Bryant and there's Jerry. And it's 4 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:20,960 Speaker 1: snowing outside, which means that Stuff you Should Know Snow edition, 5 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: Snow Edition. Yeah, I know when we're like, we gotta 6 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: record and get out of here because this is when 7 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: and snow kills us. I just mainly don't want to 8 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: be locked away from the snow. I want to be 9 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: able to like look out the window and see it. 10 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: I can now, but not as well as i'd like to. 11 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: For me, it's just a traffic thing. Like people are 12 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: probably leaving work right now. People have already left the 13 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: office here. Well maybe everyone will be gone by the 14 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: time I get out there. Okay, you'll just be the 15 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: lone guy trudging through the snow. That's right, Like if 16 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 1: you go Mortenson in the road. Yes, although he was 17 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: not alone and there wasn't any snow. It was just 18 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: nuclear ash, although there was snow. Because Charlie is theren 19 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:05,199 Speaker 1: kills herself by going out into the snow. But that's 20 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: before everything really takes a downward. Spoiler alert retroact as 21 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: spoiler alert Chuck Yep. Are you familiar with Kent State? Yeah? Man, 22 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: I've been singing that Neil Young song all day. How 23 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: can you not? You cannot by having never heard it? 24 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 1: Like me, shut up? You know that song? Never heard it? 25 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:28,039 Speaker 1: I never listened to Neil Young. You've never heard the 26 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: song Ohio? No? I know the Pretender song, but I 27 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: don't think that's about Kent State. I'm shocked, Okay, I mean, 28 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:39,399 Speaker 1: you don't have to love you without like, how's it 29 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 1: go home? And for him? No, I'm not gonna Maybe 30 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,960 Speaker 1: I have heard it ten Soldiers and Nixon, I've heard it. 31 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 1: I didn't know that was about Ohio for dead in Ohio? Yeah, okay, 32 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: And I had no idea, all right. I didn't know 33 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: what that song was about. I was just like, oh 34 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: Neil Young? Really? Yeah? Oh man, get ready to hear it. 35 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: I'm I'm used to it by now. Your bulletproof. Uh. Well, 36 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: so you're familiar with the Kent State shootings May four, Um, 37 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: four students were killed. I believe another eleven were injured, Yeah, 38 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 1: including one was paralyzed, like some pretty severe injuries. And uh, 39 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:23,919 Speaker 1: this is a big deal. That would be a big 40 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 1: deal in and of itself. If it was just some 41 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: sort of campus shooting or something like that, like it 42 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: would be a very big deal these days. But what 43 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:32,639 Speaker 1: made the Kent State shootings, for those of you who 44 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: aren't familiar with them, such an enormous deal was that 45 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 1: the shootings were carried out by National guardsmen. They were 46 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 1: Americans firing on Americans, UM, Americans on one side of 47 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: the equation, firing on protesters on the other side. Uh. 48 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 1: And it was one of the darkest points in American history, 49 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 1: modern or otherwise. Yeah, it was. I think what's so 50 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 1: upsetting is it was random. It wasn't you know that 51 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:01,359 Speaker 1: guy's coming at me with a bottle or a brick, 52 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: shoot him. It was random shooting into a crowd, Right. 53 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: That's the kind of thing that would happen in countries 54 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: under like dictatorships, not here in America. But it did 55 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: happen here in America, and not just at Kent State. 56 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: There was another similar incident just ten days later. Um 57 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: that will talk about as well. It gets overlooked, but yeah, 58 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: it was a very dark moment in American history, and 59 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: it came out of the the tensions um over the 60 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: Vietnam War. Initially, but I think it was more than that. 61 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: It was also we should say that's the um kind 62 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: of obvious thing that led to it. But also there 63 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: was a real tension also between the establishment and the 64 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: anti establishment and um, the people in control and the 65 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: people who weren't in control, students, elders. There was just 66 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: a lot of tension between two sides, and the dividing line, 67 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: the obvious dividing line was the Vietnam War. Yeah, and 68 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: I think if you are not of that generation, you 69 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: may not know the full story. You might know that 70 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: four people were shot in a protest and that's about it. 71 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: Maybe even if you're from that generation, you may not 72 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 1: know the full story. But we're about to tell you. Okay, 73 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: let's take it back a little further than all right, 74 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:21,280 Speaker 1: Vietnam country, which had when it's independence from France in 75 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: the fifties. Have you ever seen We Were Soldiers. Yes, 76 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 1: it's almost like a snuff film. It's one of the 77 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: most graphically violent movies I've ever seen in my life. 78 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 1: But it's about that transition from France leaving Vietnam and 79 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:43,359 Speaker 1: America coming in. Yeah, go ahead, Well, just initially serving 80 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: as advisors and then becoming embroiled in the war. I 81 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:50,160 Speaker 1: forgot all about that movie. Yeah, you know, and Apocalypse 82 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: Now there are some deleted scenes of the meeting up 83 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: with a French family in Vietnam and like having dinner. 84 00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 1: Really yeah, and I remember when I heard about that, 85 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:01,359 Speaker 1: I was like, why were they French? And then I 86 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: did a little more homework on it. Oh oh yeah, 87 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: if you eat Vietnamese food, like, it's very clearly like, yeah, influenced, well, 88 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: all most food is. But yeah. Um so anyway, Uh, 89 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: in the fifties day split between communists North and non 90 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 1: communist South Vietnam, and America didn't want communism spreading throughout Asia. 91 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 1: We had a policy of containment. Yeah, and so Richard Nixon, UM, 92 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:32,279 Speaker 1: when he won the sixty election, UM, part of his 93 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 1: promise was something called Vietnamization. It's kind of an awkward word, 94 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: and that meant to transfer the combat duties from our 95 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: soldiers to the South Vietnamese. That sounds familiar, isn't it? 96 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:48,039 Speaker 1: It does? But um, what what happened was at some 97 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: point he said, you know what in nineteen seventy, in April, 98 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 1: he said, I want to send our soldiers in the Cambodia, 99 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: and that caused sort of a firestorm because it was 100 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 1: a bit of a reversal of what he said he 101 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: was gonna do, and it, you know, really embroiled this 102 00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:04,280 Speaker 1: in the kind of the middle of things. Well, yeah, 103 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 1: he he escalated the war in Vietnam, which was already 104 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 1: a very um contentious issue and that it was a war, 105 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,160 Speaker 1: but also its a war that Congress never openly declared war. 106 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: So that's why historically speaking, it's referred to as the 107 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:23,039 Speaker 1: Vietnam conflict. Um. And so Nixon gets elected partially because 108 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 1: he's saying, I'm gonna get our boys out of there. 109 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: We're not gonna like let the communists when we're gonna 110 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: prop up the Vietnamese, but um, we're gonna get out 111 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 1: of there. Insteady escalates things by invading Cambodia, where the 112 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:38,359 Speaker 1: Vietcong we're stationed, and that led to immediate protests. That 113 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: was April thirtieth, nineteen seventy, that he announced that we 114 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: had invaded Cambodia, and the next day is when the 115 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 1: first protest takes place at Kent State. Yeah, and Kent. 116 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,239 Speaker 1: The article points out that it was not the most 117 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:54,119 Speaker 1: likely place because it was a little more blue collar 118 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:58,839 Speaker 1: than like say, Ohio State nearby the Ohio State University, 119 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 1: and um man, I'm sorry, that is so stupid. Sorry 120 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: os U alums and fans and students, but it is stupid, 121 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: and everyone outside of Ohio State thinks it's stupid. They 122 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 1: take a lot of pride in that. The I know, 123 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: which I think just kind of fans the flames of 124 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: um derision. You know, I can just start saying the 125 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: University of Georgia. That makes a little more sense, does it. Yeah, 126 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: what's the difference the Ohio State University the University of Georgia. 127 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: It's just it was the University of Ohio State that 128 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: would make more sense. Yeah, a little more to my ear, 129 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: I got my ear right there, see it. It's very nice, 130 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: thank you. Um At any rate, Uh, I can't say 131 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 1: it was a little more blue collar. And you wouldn't 132 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: think there would be like protesting, but there was protesting 133 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: it schools all over the country. There were and you 134 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: can read between the lines here, Kent State had a 135 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: lower hippie population than Ohio State. Can we just come 136 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 1: up right out and say it, right, But there were 137 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: protests there. Um, there was a protest on May one, 138 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 1: and it was a standard uh war protests three days 139 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 1: before the shootings, and it's kind of when things got 140 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 1: kicked off, right, but these kids were still pretty good. 141 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: They were at school holding a protest in the commons, 142 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: I believe um, which is the a k a. The 143 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: quad or like the big grassy area between in the 144 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 1: middle of campus um. And they said, you know what, 145 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 1: this went pretty well. Let's take the weekend off and 146 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: we'll meet back here one day and have another anti 147 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 1: war protests because we're really steamed about this. And everyone said, okay, 148 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: let's do that, and for tonight, let's go out and 149 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 1: hit the bars and Kent. Yeah, is what they did. 150 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: The first one they buried the constitution as a symbolic gesture, 151 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:46,719 Speaker 1: and the second one they got drunk, right, not at 152 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: the protest but later that night, right, so that Friday 153 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: protests is when they buried the constitution. This is like 154 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 1: a real protest, not just walking around. There's like stuff 155 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 1: going on, and like you know, there's symbolic acts. It 156 00:08:57,440 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: was a real protest. Yeah. And if you com buy 157 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: the alcohol and protesting, things might get a little rowdy. 158 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: So bonfires broke out, they start throwing bottles at police cars, 159 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 1: breaking windows. That's where the little rowdy. I mean, that's 160 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: pretty that's a riot. When you said like bomb fires 161 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: in the streets and like throw bottles at at police cars, 162 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 1: that you have just basically said we've drawn a line 163 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: in the sand. Where are you gonna do, cops? That 164 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: is one way to look at it for sure. Uh. 165 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: The mayor, Leroy Satram said, this is an emergency situation people. 166 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:34,439 Speaker 1: I need to call the governor James Rhodes. We need 167 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: some help. I'm going to close the bars, which you 168 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:40,680 Speaker 1: know isn't gonna make anyone very happy, no, And it 169 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:44,559 Speaker 1: had an exacerbating effect apparently, because that meant all the 170 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,439 Speaker 1: people who weren't riding in the streets, who were busy 171 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 1: drinking in the bars, were now suddenly in the streets 172 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: too and joined the protests and the a k a. 173 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 1: The riots, right, that's right. And the police were called 174 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: in the use tear gas and said go back to 175 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 1: your dorm rooms, basically get back on campus. And that 176 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: was Friday. Now we move on to Saturday. Yeah, and 177 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 1: the mayors is obviously a little jumpie. He's hearing rumors 178 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: circulating that there's gonna be another. The scene from the 179 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: night before is going to happen all over again on Saturday. 180 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: So he calls the governor of Ohio and um, here 181 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:27,079 Speaker 1: enters the person who, in my opinion, is single handedly 182 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 1: responsible for what happened at Kent State. So the National 183 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: Guard arrives. Um, there were about a thousand protesters. Um 184 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 1: that actually burned down an r OTC building on campus, 185 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: which is pretty bold move. And UM, they didn't find 186 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: out who did that exactly, but they did cut fire 187 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,560 Speaker 1: hoses so they couldn't put out the fire and basically 188 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 1: burned it to the ground. Yeah, the protesters set it 189 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:51,679 Speaker 1: on fire and then cut the fire hoses like they 190 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 1: wanted that building burned. And apparently, Um, that's when the 191 00:10:57,280 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: National Guard shows up a couple like an hour or 192 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 1: so later, right, Yeah, and they you know, broke everything 193 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 1: up obviously. And then Uh comes Sunday. You've got about 194 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:13,439 Speaker 1: a thousand National guardsman and you've got Governor Rhodes arriving, 195 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: uh and holding a press conference and kind of flaming 196 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: the fire again by calling the protesters the worst type 197 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 1: of people that we harbor in America. Yeah, he compared 198 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: to the brown shirts. Mussolini's brown Shirts, UM, the communists, UM, 199 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 1: pretty much anybody he could think of that was that 200 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: would be disparaging. That's who publicly at this press conference 201 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: compared him to UM. And you mentioned that the on 202 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:44,680 Speaker 1: Sunday morning, the UM National Guard was on campus kind 203 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: of keeping order and everything. But apparently like the relations 204 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 1: between the guardsmen and the students were pretty amicable, like 205 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: people were chatting friendly, like there was no tension. It 206 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:59,319 Speaker 1: was just kind of like, hey, I'm nineteen. Hey, I'm nineteen, 207 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 1: I'm as student at Kent State, I'm in the National Guard. 208 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 1: Let's hang out. And it wasn't until the governor showed 209 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 1: up and held this press conference that things took a 210 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 1: very sudden turn for the worse. And it wasn't just 211 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 1: the brown shirts calling him the brown Shirts to the 212 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 1: worst element that America harbors, but also saying I may 213 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 1: also declare martial law. Yeah, and that I may. Message 214 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 1: never quite got through in those confusion as to whether 215 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 1: or not that actually happened, And basically the National Guard 216 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:34,599 Speaker 1: believed that that had happened, and they took control of 217 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: the campus and said we're running the show now. And 218 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 1: that's just the National Guard, but the university officials to 219 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 1: the people running the university said, oh, well, martial laws declared, 220 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 1: and they knew that there was a protest scheduled for 221 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: the following day, Monday, So they printed a bunch of 222 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 1: flyers and pamphlets saying, Hey, your constitutional rights have been 223 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 1: suspended because the universities under martial law, so all assemblies banned, 224 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 1: so don't protest, and kind of fell on deaf ears. 225 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 1: I guess you could say, come Monday morning. Because the 226 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:07,959 Speaker 1: students showed up the protest. Yeah, that definitely didn't work. Um. 227 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:11,680 Speaker 1: By noon there was about three thousand people, about five 228 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 1: d actively protesting, another thousand just there to be supportive. 229 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:21,079 Speaker 1: And um and because it's a college campus, about people 230 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: just checking it out, Yah, stopping on their way to 231 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 1: class or whatever, you like, what's going on. I would 232 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: have done the same thing probably, And we should say, 233 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 1: also are our buddy stuff they don't want you to know? Um. 234 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:39,440 Speaker 1: Host and sometimes producer Matt Frederick his parents were students 235 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: at Kent Stay and they stay at home that day. 236 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 1: They did. They were like, there's some bad stuff that's 237 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: going to go down, and they were right. Uh. So 238 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 1: the article points out at was less an anti war 239 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: protest at this point, and more of a protest of 240 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 1: the draconian occupation of their campus martial law by the 241 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: army and UM which is not even real, which is 242 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: just a misunderstanding. Yeah, pretty much. So the General UM 243 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 1: Canterbury says, you know what this rally is over drive 244 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:11,080 Speaker 1: me around in a jeep, give me that bullhorn. Let 245 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 1: me tell everyone to go home, because that'll work. Yeah, 246 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 1: I mean, let's go back to this where these tensions 247 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 1: came from in the first place. It's establishment versus anti establishment, 248 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: and establishment is the type to stand in a jeep 249 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: and be driven around with the bullhorn telling people to disperse. 250 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 1: I don't know if there's ever been a message relayed 251 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 1: via bullhorn that doesn't fall on deaf ears. Yeah, you know, 252 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: it has the opposite effect, unless, like I guess, in 253 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 1: like a female situations, if you're trying to like organize 254 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 1: people and stuff, that helps. But I always think of 255 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 1: bullhorns is stuff like this, the general riding around the 256 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: jeep yelling at people to go home, and people saying no, 257 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: you don understand why we're here in the first place. 258 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 1: So they started throwing rocks at the jeep not surprisingly, 259 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 1: and UM not well think, you know, tensions at this point. 260 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 1: This was day four. Yeah, I I think though, though 261 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 1: I'm not justifying, I'm just no, no, I know you're 262 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 1: not at all. But I think it's really easy to 263 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: to um to to kind of choose one side or 264 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 1: the other, especially once you know the outcome. But I 265 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 1: don't think it should be overlooked that, like people are 266 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: throwing rocks at this dude while he's driving around. The 267 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 1: people have burned down a building, people have rioted in 268 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 1: the streets of the town, the college town. I mean, 269 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: like these are real, huge events that scared the pants 270 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 1: off of the people who were running the town, the state, 271 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: the country, and and I mean to say that they 272 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: were unprovoked as historically inaccurate, Yeah, I totally agree, not justifying, 273 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: but I think a lot of people might think the 274 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: story is people got together to protest and the army 275 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 1: came in and shot him, right or yeah, and and 276 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 1: that it was either the protests of fault. They shouldn't 277 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 1: have been protest, they shouldn't have burned down that building, 278 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 1: or you know, it was entirely the National Guards fault. 279 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 1: And you whatever historical event you're looking at, it's never 280 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 1: just one side or or the other. There's It's always 281 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 1: great and you have blinders on. If you think otherwise, 282 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: you should write a history book called It's Always Great 283 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 1: Josh Clark's History of America. I'd buy that. Um, all right, 284 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 1: So where are we? They were throwing rocks at the General. 285 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 1: He at this point ordered his troops to load their weapons, 286 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 1: get the tear gas going. He said, they threw rocks 287 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: of me. You guys, load your weapons. That's basically what happened. Um, 288 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: not because his feelings were hurt. Yeah, although imagine they were. 289 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: I guess no matter who you are, I'm sure if 290 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 1: people throw rocks and you're like I I take that personally. 291 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: So the National Guard came in. They pushed them back 292 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: past the Commons, over a steep called Blanket Hill and 293 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: into the parking lot of Prentice Hall in a practice 294 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 1: football field. Then basically the guardsmen found themselves cornered by 295 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: a fence, retreated back up the hill. When they got 296 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 1: to the top, out of the seventy turned and began 297 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 1: firing their guns into the crowd. Yeah, so, well, not 298 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: all of them into the crowd, we should point out, 299 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,360 Speaker 1: most into the air or the ground. Actually, although some 300 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:17,400 Speaker 1: fired directly in the crowd. They all would have fired 301 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 1: directly in the crowd. That would have been a much 302 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 1: higher blood count or body counts. Oh yeah, I'm sure, um. 303 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: And I mean the protesters were about a football filled 304 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 1: away from them. Um. And the fact that they started 305 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: to walk up the hill and then turn and shot 306 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 1: made it not just an attack of Americans on Americans, 307 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:39,159 Speaker 1: but a surprise attack of Americans on Americans. Yeah. I 308 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 1: would say the students were definitely did not expect bullet retaliation. 309 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 1: Took about thirteen seconds. Um. Four students were killed. Alison Krauss, 310 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:54,439 Speaker 1: not the Allison Krause obviously, Jeffrey Miller, Sandra Sure and 311 00:17:54,880 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: William Schroeder and uh, it's all tragic, but even more 312 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 1: magically shut and Schroeder, We're just walking to class. Yeah, protest. 313 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:07,640 Speaker 1: They were in the wrong place at the wrong time, 314 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 1: and like I said, nine people were wounded. In one 315 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: dean collar was paralyzed. And yeah, so those shots they 316 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:18,400 Speaker 1: shot into the air and into the ground, but also 317 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 1: into the crowd. And over about thirteen seconds, they fired 318 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,399 Speaker 1: between sixty one and sixty seven shots. I think that 319 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: could be categorized as a hail of gunfire. Yeah, thirteen seconds, 320 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 1: sixties shots, But is that that's like a lot of 321 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 1: shots the second, you know, and just from twenty eight guns. Yeah, 322 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:38,719 Speaker 1: And apparently there was a professor named Glenn Frank who 323 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 1: did a lot to quell the crowd and did talk 324 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:45,479 Speaker 1: them into, uh, not escalating this thing any further. Right, 325 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,959 Speaker 1: So this article really kind of glances over this guy's role. 326 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:50,640 Speaker 1: And it wasn't just him, but he was the head 327 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: of the faculty marshals who whose job it was was 328 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:57,479 Speaker 1: to basically keep an eye on the protests. They were 329 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 1: like the university's liaison between the university and the students 330 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 1: the protesters, and this guy and his crew basically single 331 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:14,360 Speaker 1: handedly prevented like a massacre because they saw very quickly 332 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: that if they didn't insinuate themselves between the guardsmen and 333 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: the students, the students were gonna be like, Holy, holy God, 334 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:27,360 Speaker 1: they just fired live ammunition on us, and they're standing 335 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,879 Speaker 1: right there, let's get them. They would have attacked. The 336 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 1: consensus is the students would have attacked out of anger, 337 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,639 Speaker 1: and that the guardsmen most definitely would have fired again 338 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 1: when being attacked. Um and these this this faculty member 339 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: and his team saw what was about to happen, and 340 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 1: slid in and was like wait. So they firstly spoke 341 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 1: to the guardsman and said stop firing, we have to 342 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: go talk to the students. Then they went and spoke 343 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 1: to the students for twenty minutes and got him to 344 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:58,880 Speaker 1: calm down enough to to to stop provoking or did 345 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 1: not provoker, advanced on the guardsman in retaliation and saved 346 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 1: a lot of lives. Probably. I wonder if there's a 347 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 1: Glenn Frank statue on campus. There should be. Uh. So 348 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 1: they closed school not for the day or the weekend, 349 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:18,040 Speaker 1: but for the rest of the semester, and UM a 350 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:21,360 Speaker 1: lot of colleges did the same as far as shutting down. Well, 351 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,119 Speaker 1: because a lot of students went on strike and like 352 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,640 Speaker 1: they were forced to, the universities were forced to shut down. Uh. 353 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 1: In the following weekend, UM a hundred thousand people went 354 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 1: to d c UM to protest. Neil Young news to 355 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:39,639 Speaker 1: Josh wrote a song about it. Uh So, chuck, um, 356 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:48,359 Speaker 1: let's do a message break show. Okay, So the the 357 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:51,159 Speaker 1: shootings just happened, that the crowd has been quelled, the 358 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 1: dead and Woon would have been taken away in ambulances 359 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:58,440 Speaker 1: and now we reached the aftermath. That's immediate. And otherwise, Yeah, Um, 360 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 1: President Nixon wasn't super compassionate. He had earlier been overheard 361 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 1: calling them bombs. This wasn't in his press release, obviously, 362 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,879 Speaker 1: but it definitely got out in the press. Did not 363 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 1: bode well for his reputation. And um, he said, when 364 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,439 Speaker 1: the cent turns to violence, it invites tragedy. That was 365 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:20,639 Speaker 1: the official line. That was the official line, which is 366 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 1: pretty cold. That's the president like, you get what you 367 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:28,159 Speaker 1: what you pay for. Yeah much. His vice president, um 368 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 1: Agnes said it was predictable. Um, also not super compassionate 369 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:38,200 Speaker 1: considering this. These were Americans that were shot and killed. Uh, 370 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: two of which were just walking to class. Uh. He 371 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 1: called them a bunch of scared kids with guns the 372 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,920 Speaker 1: National guardsman. But that was very priced the speechwriter for Nixon. Yeah, 373 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: which is true. Yeah, but so basically the whole, the 374 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: whole kids is gray. You know. It is like they 375 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:56,119 Speaker 1: probably were scared for sure, and uh, and yeah, I 376 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 1: think that's fair. I think also though it's it's one 377 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: sided too, like he's he's not saying and then also 378 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: the other side, we're a bunch of scared, angry kids 379 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 1: with rocks. Yeah, like the only way, and you can't 380 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: even remove the grade, but you'd have to find out 381 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: each person who shot and what their motive was, because 382 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,200 Speaker 1: some were probably scared out of their mind and reacted. 383 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 1: There has been some people later on that said that 384 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 1: they some got together and decided to do this, some 385 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: of the guardsmen, right, so, when they had been pushing 386 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 1: the crowd back onto the UM practice football field, apparently 387 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:35,239 Speaker 1: while they were loitering there. There have been allegations that 388 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,119 Speaker 1: a couple of the guardsmen said, Hey, when we marched 389 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 1: back up the hill, we're gonna turn and fire. It's 390 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 1: never been proven, UM, but a few more than a 391 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:48,399 Speaker 1: couple of historians have leveled that accusation. UM. There was 392 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 1: also immediate word that the guardsman said that they were 393 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,640 Speaker 1: acting in self defense because they there was a sniper 394 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: on one of the rooftops and that they were being 395 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 1: fired on. They found out that they were audio recordings 396 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,200 Speaker 1: of this, and UM that was quickly changed to well, 397 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 1: it was self defense because these people were throwing rocks 398 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: at us. There was the Presidential Commission, obviously, UM, and 399 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 1: they concluded it was quote unnecessary, unwarranted, and inexcusable. And 400 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 1: then in uh, an FBI investigation found that the guardsman 401 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,159 Speaker 1: fabricated their defense and that they were not in true danger. 402 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: That was FBI. So the Presidential Commission and the FBI 403 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,479 Speaker 1: investigation both said, like, this shouldn't have happened, and like, 404 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,919 Speaker 1: it's on the guardsman. But that wasn't the mood of 405 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:37,919 Speaker 1: the nation for the most part. There was a gallop 406 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 1: pole that was conducted shortly after, and um, the majority 407 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 1: of Americans said that it was the protester's fault for protesting. Yeah, 408 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,120 Speaker 1: I mean it went to trial too. It wasn't just like, oh, well, 409 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 1: this happened and it's super sad. Uh. And in federal 410 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:56,399 Speaker 1: trial it was dismissed because of what was called a 411 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 1: weak case by the guardsman. And then the grand jury 412 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 1: in Ohio put the blame on the university officials and 413 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,399 Speaker 1: the protesters and not the guardsman. And then there was 414 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 1: a civil trial in nineteen seventy nine settled out of 415 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:12,680 Speaker 1: court where the victims and families got a collective sum 416 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:18,200 Speaker 1: of six d and seventy dollars ah collective some meaning 417 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: I guess that was for all of them, right, yeah, yeah, 418 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: they all split that and no apology was apology was 419 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 1: ever issued. Um, they did issue a sign statement expressing regret. 420 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 1: Do you want to hear it? Yeah, so this is 421 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,440 Speaker 1: the sign statement that that that was that came out 422 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: of the civil trial that the Ohio and National Guard 423 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,679 Speaker 1: released to the families of the victims. In retrospect, the 424 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 1: tragedy of May fourth, nineteen seventies should not have occurred. 425 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: The students may have believed that they were right in 426 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,880 Speaker 1: continuing their mass protests in response to the Cambodian invasion, 427 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: even though this protest followed the posting and reading by 428 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 1: the university of an order to ban rallies and in 429 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,879 Speaker 1: order to disperse. These orders have since been determined by 430 00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 1: the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals to have been lawful. 431 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,640 Speaker 1: So with the guardsmen on Blanket Hill, fearful and anxious 432 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: from prior events, may have believed their own, in their 433 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 1: own minds, that their lives were in danger. Hindsight suggests 434 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,120 Speaker 1: that another method would have resolved the confrontation. Better ways 435 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: must be found to deal with such a confrontation. We 436 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 1: devoutly wish that a means had been found to avoid 437 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,239 Speaker 1: the May fourth events culminating in the guard shootings and 438 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,960 Speaker 1: the irreversible deaths and injuries. We deeply regret those events 439 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 1: and are profoundly saddened by the deaths of four students 440 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,400 Speaker 1: and the wounding of nine others which resulted. We hope 441 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 1: that the agreement to end the litigation will help to 442 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:38,400 Speaker 1: assuage the tragic memories regarding that sad day. I don't apology, no, 443 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 1: sort of like we regret hindsight being we might have 444 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:48,120 Speaker 1: should have done something differently. Right saying we regret instead 445 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 1: of I'm sorry is that's a big flashing light. It's 446 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 1: a big death. Uh. And for many years they um, 447 00:25:55,480 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: the university itself wasn't quite sure how to handle moving 448 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: forward in memoriam and otherwise. UM. In the seventies, they 449 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: the officials at Kent State failed. They tried to, but 450 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:12,159 Speaker 1: they tried to commemorate it just once every five years 451 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 1: instead of every year, and everybody who held the visuals like, 452 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,199 Speaker 1: well then you have nothing to do with this. And 453 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:19,639 Speaker 1: they kept showing up every year, right like what are 454 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 1: you gonna do with calling the National Garden remove us? 455 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:27,359 Speaker 1: And they went Uh. In nineteen seventy nine, there were 456 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 1: hundreds of arrests because the university tried to bulldoze the 457 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:36,440 Speaker 1: place where it happened, to build a gym that didn't happen. Uh. 458 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 1: And it took all the way up until to keep 459 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,120 Speaker 1: cars from driving over the spots in the parking lot 460 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 1: where the students were killed. Right. And finally in the 461 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 1: mid two thousand's, UM, the university is finally reverse this 462 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 1: position and just kind of goes with the flow. And 463 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 1: in two thirteen they opened a visitors center that is 464 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 1: all about commemorating this of it as a historical event. 465 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,439 Speaker 1: But also I get the impression from the the descriptions 466 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:09,119 Speaker 1: of the visitors center a UM kind of the spiritual 467 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,600 Speaker 1: aspect of it, the spiritual aspect of tragedy. And that 468 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: just last year UH. Now the university UM they say, 469 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,159 Speaker 1: as a nation's leader in UH. Courses of non violence 470 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:26,120 Speaker 1: and democracy and peace studies and conflict resolution classes were 471 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: all established, so they, you know, are trying to lead 472 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 1: the way forward and at least being a symbol of uh, 473 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 1: you know, peaceful protest. And people are still trying to 474 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: figure out what happened. There's still lots of debate. UM. 475 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 1: Oliver Stone unsurprisingly favors the theory that the government placed 476 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 1: a sniper um in these protests, and that there were 477 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 1: government plant agitators who pushed the protests over the line. Um. 478 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,120 Speaker 1: And this idea is supported by the fact that there 479 00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:01,879 Speaker 1: were policies by governors and the president to crack down 480 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,879 Speaker 1: on dissent on student anti war protests. So there definitely 481 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,359 Speaker 1: was a policy that was like, if you want to 482 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 1: get thirty, we'll we'll, we'll send our goons to beat 483 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 1: you up. Um. But a lot of people think that 484 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 1: the presence of a snipers totally unsupported. UM. But then 485 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:24,639 Speaker 1: a cassette emerged uh fairly recently that that's an actual 486 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 1: audio recording of that day that says, supposedly you can 487 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 1: hear um the phrases get, set, point, and fire, which 488 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 1: means that this wasn't a surprise, knee jerk shooting. That 489 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 1: there was an officer commanding the guardsman to shoot. Yeah. 490 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: And it also, um, you know what, with modern analysis, 491 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 1: they think that there may have been shots fired before 492 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 1: uh full I think seventy seconds before the guardsmen fired. 493 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 1: There's a kin State student named Terry Norman Um who 494 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 1: was a photographer on campus taking pictures, and he also 495 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 1: had a handgun, a loaded handgun and he denied that 496 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: he discharged it. But um, he has been accused of 497 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 1: triggering this by firing shots. And I think they found 498 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 1: evidence audio evidence that there were shots fired and they 499 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 1: think it maybe have been Terry Norman. Wow, that kicked 500 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: it all off. And can you imagine carrying that around? No? 501 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: I could not. And then chuck UM, this is a 502 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 1: lot of people say that that Kent State was the 503 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 1: beginning of the UM slide towards Watergate for Nixon. This 504 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 1: is like the beginning of the end for him. Um. 505 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,360 Speaker 1: And then we should also talk about what happened at 506 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 1: Jackson State because race relations of this country are so 507 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 1: messed up that everybody talks about Kent State where four 508 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 1: white students died, and no one talks about Jackson State, 509 00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 1: which happened ten days later and two black people died. 510 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 1: Black stude, Yeah, and could have been a lot worse, 511 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 1: like they basically riddled a dormitory with a hail of gunfire. 512 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 1: So ten days after Kent State, UM, at Jackson State 513 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 1: University UM in Mississippi, UH, they were also carrying out 514 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 1: anti war protests, but they were also UM protests based 515 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 1: on racism as well. UM and when these students were 516 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 1: doing a lot of the similar stuff, a lot of 517 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 1: the same stuff that was happening or had happened at 518 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 1: Kent State. They were um rioting. They had burned a 519 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 1: building on campus down and um. When firefighters came out 520 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 1: to put out the flames, they started to get worried 521 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 1: that these protesters were going to harm them, so they 522 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 1: called the cops. Well, the cops came out, tried to 523 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 1: disperse the crowd. The crowd didn't disperse, so they opened fire, 524 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 1: and like you said, they riddled the building that served 525 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 1: as the backdrop to this protest with bullets. Something like 526 00:30:55,800 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: four hundred and sixty rounds hit the building alone. There's 527 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 1: no telling how many one on the sides or anything 528 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 1: like that. Four hundred and sixty rounds. And he said 529 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: every window was broken on every floor with bullet fire 530 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 1: on a on a crowd of crowd of students um 531 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: and amazingly only two people died. Yeah. Philip Gibbs, he 532 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 1: was a pre law major and a father of an 533 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 1: eighteen monthly son and James Green. He was seventeen years 534 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 1: old and he was a high school student walking home 535 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 1: from his job at the grocery store right, which again, 536 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 1: the fact that he's not involved in anyway and still 537 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,479 Speaker 1: died makes it so much worse. Yeah. And this one, 538 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 1: also I don't think we pointed out started out because 539 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 1: of misinformation. There was um a rumor that the mayor, 540 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 1: mayor Charles Evers and his wife had been shot and killed, 541 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 1: assassinated basically it was not true. A relative of Mega Evers, right, Yeah, 542 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 1: he was his brother, and so that's kind of what 543 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,320 Speaker 1: sparked everything. In addition to like the anti war protests, 544 00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 1: and uh, it was very much about black and white. 545 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,440 Speaker 1: Well yeah, I mean like they're there. Yeah, so, um, 546 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: this is a historically black college. The cops had just 547 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 1: opened fire on a bunch of students. Twelve people were 548 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:15,640 Speaker 1: hit by injured by gunfire, two were killed, and the 549 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 1: ambulances weren't called until the police picked up all of 550 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 1: their showcasings and left, and then the National Guard came in. Yeah, 551 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 1: and then after that the police denied they even took part. Um, 552 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 1: I'm not sure how that panned out. How can you 553 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 1: deny that you shot up a building? So it was 554 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 1: Mississippi in and and historically black college and you probably 555 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 1: never heard of Jackson State for until we started researching this, 556 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,479 Speaker 1: I didn't. I hadn't heard of it either, and there 557 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 1: was only one source we used that made reference to it. 558 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 1: That's how I heard about it. So that's great. It's 559 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 1: just fantastic. That's what happened against state in Jackson State, 560 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 1: in Jackson State, Um, you got anything else? I got 561 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:03,719 Speaker 1: nothing else. Just gotta be a better ending of this 562 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 1: than this. I mean, these things happen, but there there 563 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 1: has to have been some lesson learned. I think. So 564 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:15,160 Speaker 1: it hasn't happened since Yeah, that's true. I wonder at 565 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 1: least on a campus. Yeah, we should do one on 566 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 1: the Battle for Seattle. Did they didn't fire live rounds 567 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 1: at that though? Did they? I'm pretty sure they didn't, 568 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 1: but that Yeah, we should do one on that as well. Yeah, 569 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 1: my friend John was there agitating. Is he a black shirt? Now? 570 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 1: He had these funny protest lines about that references Simpsons. 571 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 1: I can't remember her black block. That's where they got 572 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 1: the pictures. Um, well, I have to interview him then. 573 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 1: I don't know that it would yield much information. Fine, 574 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,479 Speaker 1: I think he was just cooping around. Um all right, Well, 575 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:49,360 Speaker 1: if you want to learn more about Kent State, you 576 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 1: can type in uh that name into the search part 577 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com, And we also encourage you 578 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,720 Speaker 1: to go look up Jackson State as well. Um, and 579 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 1: let's see it's I said, search bar you it's time 580 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 1: for listener me all right, yes, sir, I'm gonna call this. 581 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 1: A prison guard wrote in, Hey guys, Um, For the 582 00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:13,440 Speaker 1: most part, I found the episode on capital Punishment pretty 583 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,439 Speaker 1: even handed and interesting. However, I couldn't help but notice 584 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:18,360 Speaker 1: a bit of venom in your voices whenever you mentioned 585 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,640 Speaker 1: prison guards, especially in instance of an inmate taking his 586 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 1: own life with a razor blade while he's being off 587 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:28,440 Speaker 1: observed on deathwatch. The implication was that the guard on 588 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,799 Speaker 1: duty negligently gave the inmate a razor in order to 589 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 1: encourage him to take his own life. I don't think 590 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,960 Speaker 1: we implied that, did we. Um. No, it wasn't implied. 591 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 1: It was more just like, what kind of thing? Like 592 00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:45,200 Speaker 1: why why did that happen? As a former prison guard 593 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:47,720 Speaker 1: that worked on death row, I have to tell you, um, 594 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 1: that couldn't be further from the truth. It's a civil 595 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,680 Speaker 1: right for inmates to have access to razor blades for 596 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,319 Speaker 1: hygienic purposes. I was required to allow an inmate on 597 00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 1: death row to keep the disposable razor for thirty minutes, 598 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,600 Speaker 1: despite the fact that he had nearly killed another inmate 599 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 1: and murdered a prison official with a razor blade while 600 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 1: serving his sentence. I'd imagine an inmate even on deathwatch 601 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 1: would have similar rights, but I can't confirm through experience. 602 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 1: UM guards that worked on death row weren't allowed to 603 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,880 Speaker 1: serve on death watch. This is because it was feared 604 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,239 Speaker 1: that we'd form an emotional bond to the inmates set 605 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:25,240 Speaker 1: for execution it might cause a scene. So yes, prison 606 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:28,439 Speaker 1: guards have feelings and can have empathy for others. Pop 607 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:30,960 Speaker 1: culture and nearly always portrays guards as heavy as and villains, 608 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:33,840 Speaker 1: and even smart portrayals of prison life like Orange is 609 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,759 Speaker 1: the New Black, as every prison official character as a 610 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:40,240 Speaker 1: comic book mustache twirling villain or a mouth breathing idiot. 611 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,399 Speaker 1: It's a hard job and should be respected as much 612 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:48,359 Speaker 1: as other high risk civil servant careers. UM a little 613 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:51,200 Speaker 1: disappointed you guys continue this trend, but I'm used to it, 614 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 1: so don't sweat it. So that is from Craig, and 615 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:57,920 Speaker 1: he let us off easy, even though he feels like 616 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,560 Speaker 1: we insulted his jaw. Well, thanks, Craig. I think he 617 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,719 Speaker 1: did exactly what we were kind of searching for right then. 618 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:12,960 Speaker 1: We were just um ah, disgustedly confused, We're disgustedly ignorant 619 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:14,560 Speaker 1: one of the two. Yeah. I will say that he 620 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:16,840 Speaker 1: is probably right on the money. As far as movie portrayals, 621 00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,360 Speaker 1: it's pretty one note if you're a prison guard in 622 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,200 Speaker 1: a movie in general, unless it's The Green Mile and 623 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:26,279 Speaker 1: that movie has problems of its own or Oz. I 624 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:30,600 Speaker 1: never watched Oz? What that was the first? That? OZ 625 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:34,360 Speaker 1: is the show that kicked off all of the shows 626 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,560 Speaker 1: you love and binge watch now. The idea of binge 627 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,600 Speaker 1: watching a show began with a show like OZ, because 628 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:44,480 Speaker 1: there was nothing like it ever created before it was. 629 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:48,800 Speaker 1: It all started with Oz, The Wire, the Shield, Um, 630 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:53,960 Speaker 1: House of Cards, Orange is a New Black Everything, every 631 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,399 Speaker 1: breaking bad, all of them can thank us. You can 632 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:01,000 Speaker 1: thank Oz. You should go watch Oz Man, Thank you Oz. 633 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:07,160 Speaker 1: It's good, great man. This one is. This is something 634 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,680 Speaker 1: I feel drained a little bit, yeah, emotionally exhausted. I'm 635 00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:12,319 Speaker 1: still not happy with the ending. I feel like we 636 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,560 Speaker 1: could have ended a lot better, but um, I'll have 637 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:17,719 Speaker 1: to think on it all right. Uh. If you want 638 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:19,400 Speaker 1: to get in touch with me and Chuck, you can 639 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:21,680 Speaker 1: tweet to us at s y s K podcast. You 640 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,640 Speaker 1: can hang out on our Facebook page Facebook dot com 641 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,080 Speaker 1: slash Stuff you Should Know UM, you can send us 642 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,959 Speaker 1: an email the Stuff Podcast at Discovery dot com, and 643 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,120 Speaker 1: you can check us out at our website Stuff you 644 00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:40,800 Speaker 1: Should Know dot com for more on this and thousands 645 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 1: of other topics. Because it how Stuff works dot com, 646 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:52,520 Speaker 1: This episode of Stuff you Should Know is brought to 647 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,640 Speaker 1: you by Linda dot Com. Linda dot com offers thousands 648 00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,960 Speaker 1: of engaging, easy to follow video tutorials taught by industry 649 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,320 Speaker 1: experts to help you learn software, creative and business skills. 650 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:04,880 Speaker 1: Membership starts at twenty five dollars a month and provides 651 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:08,680 Speaker 1: unlimited seven access tri Linda dot com free for seven 652 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,680 Speaker 1: days by visiting Linda dot com slash s y s 653 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:11,800 Speaker 1: K