1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:24,116 Speaker 1: Pushkin. The demand for electricity is rising fast because of AI, 2 00:00:24,796 --> 00:00:27,796 Speaker 1: because of the shift toward electric vehicles and electric heat 3 00:00:27,916 --> 00:00:32,196 Speaker 1: and electric everything else. And it's relatively easy to install 4 00:00:32,356 --> 00:00:34,836 Speaker 1: new solar panels and in a pinch to build more 5 00:00:34,916 --> 00:00:38,356 Speaker 1: gas power plants. But plugging them in, hooking them up 6 00:00:38,396 --> 00:00:42,116 Speaker 1: to the grid, that part is hard. The grid has 7 00:00:42,156 --> 00:00:45,396 Speaker 1: to be big enough to reliably carry all the electric 8 00:00:45,436 --> 00:00:49,036 Speaker 1: power that people will want at the moment of peak demand, 9 00:00:49,516 --> 00:00:51,756 Speaker 1: you know, at five PM on a hot summer day, 10 00:00:51,796 --> 00:00:54,076 Speaker 1: when everybody gets home from work and turns up the 11 00:00:54,116 --> 00:00:57,596 Speaker 1: air conditioner and plugs in the EV and expanding the 12 00:00:57,636 --> 00:01:01,436 Speaker 1: grid to accommodate those higher and higher peaks that is 13 00:01:01,516 --> 00:01:05,316 Speaker 1: really expensive. On top of that, in a lot of places, 14 00:01:05,436 --> 00:01:08,196 Speaker 1: expense is not the only problem. Even if you want 15 00:01:08,236 --> 00:01:10,116 Speaker 1: to add more power to the you have to wait 16 00:01:10,116 --> 00:01:12,676 Speaker 1: in line until the company that builds the poles and 17 00:01:12,716 --> 00:01:15,756 Speaker 1: the wires can get to you. And so people have 18 00:01:15,836 --> 00:01:18,156 Speaker 1: started to think, what if we could figure out how 19 00:01:18,196 --> 00:01:21,436 Speaker 1: to get more energy to more people without having to 20 00:01:21,476 --> 00:01:30,796 Speaker 1: expand the grid so much. I'm Jacob Goldstein, and this 21 00:01:30,836 --> 00:01:32,836 Speaker 1: is What's Your Problem? The show where I talk to 22 00:01:32,836 --> 00:01:36,396 Speaker 1: people who are trying to make technological progress. My guest 23 00:01:36,396 --> 00:01:40,396 Speaker 1: today is Justin Lowpos. Justin is the co founder and 24 00:01:40,476 --> 00:01:44,716 Speaker 1: chief operating officer at Base Power. On one level, Base 25 00:01:44,756 --> 00:01:48,076 Speaker 1: Power does something really simple. They install big batteries at 26 00:01:48,076 --> 00:01:51,756 Speaker 1: people's homes in Texas, and the batteries provide backup power 27 00:01:51,876 --> 00:01:56,636 Speaker 1: during blackouts. But Bass's business is actually much more interesting 28 00:01:56,676 --> 00:02:00,236 Speaker 1: than that. In a lot of places, Base actually owns 29 00:02:00,276 --> 00:02:03,196 Speaker 1: the batteries that they install at people's houses, and the 30 00:02:03,236 --> 00:02:06,276 Speaker 1: company acts as the homeowner's electric provider. They send them 31 00:02:06,316 --> 00:02:09,516 Speaker 1: a bill every month, and this is the really interesting part. 32 00:02:10,276 --> 00:02:14,116 Speaker 1: Having those batteries installed on thousands of houses has huge 33 00:02:14,196 --> 00:02:18,516 Speaker 1: implications for the grid because the batteries can charge whenever. 34 00:02:18,756 --> 00:02:22,236 Speaker 1: In particular, they can charge when the grid is underused, 35 00:02:22,476 --> 00:02:24,916 Speaker 1: say in the middle of the day when solar panels 36 00:02:24,956 --> 00:02:29,156 Speaker 1: are cranking out power. Then at that moment when everybody 37 00:02:29,156 --> 00:02:32,156 Speaker 1: gets home and cranks up the AC the batteries can 38 00:02:32,236 --> 00:02:36,796 Speaker 1: discharge that power. That means less energy traveling over the 39 00:02:36,836 --> 00:02:41,756 Speaker 1: grid at moments of peak demand. So at the micro level, 40 00:02:42,076 --> 00:02:45,116 Speaker 1: Base is a battery company, but at the macro level 41 00:02:45,276 --> 00:02:48,436 Speaker 1: they're a utility. But instead of having a few giant 42 00:02:48,436 --> 00:02:51,596 Speaker 1: power plants, they have all those batteries, which are essentially 43 00:02:51,836 --> 00:02:55,276 Speaker 1: thousands of tiny power plants stash next to people's houses. 44 00:02:56,756 --> 00:02:58,996 Speaker 1: I asked Justin to explain how all this works from 45 00:02:58,996 --> 00:03:00,596 Speaker 1: the point of view of a customer. 46 00:03:01,116 --> 00:03:03,596 Speaker 2: Let's say you have a house in Houston and your 47 00:03:03,636 --> 00:03:06,396 Speaker 2: single family homeowner. You first of all, you have to 48 00:03:06,436 --> 00:03:08,556 Speaker 2: choose who you buy a power from. You can't buy 49 00:03:08,596 --> 00:03:11,076 Speaker 2: it from the utiel in this case, Center Point Energy 50 00:03:11,116 --> 00:03:13,556 Speaker 2: is the Polls and myyers on our they don't sell power, 51 00:03:13,796 --> 00:03:15,596 Speaker 2: not on their menu, so you got to go to 52 00:03:15,636 --> 00:03:17,556 Speaker 2: someone else. We are one of the options with it. 53 00:03:17,676 --> 00:03:21,316 Speaker 2: You can buy your power and we offer a rate today. 54 00:03:21,356 --> 00:03:23,796 Speaker 2: That rate is on our website, and that rate is 55 00:03:23,916 --> 00:03:27,556 Speaker 2: quite competitive in comparison to the other power providers. And 56 00:03:28,116 --> 00:03:30,836 Speaker 2: like we like to say, there's no sexy electron, uh huh, sure, 57 00:03:31,196 --> 00:03:33,476 Speaker 2: Our electrons are the same as every other retailer's. 58 00:03:33,676 --> 00:03:36,556 Speaker 1: Classic commodity doesn't get more commodified than electrons. 59 00:03:36,676 --> 00:03:41,716 Speaker 2: That's right, Because it's a commodity. The fundamental value is 60 00:03:41,716 --> 00:03:44,196 Speaker 2: in the price and in its reliability. And that's what 61 00:03:44,236 --> 00:03:48,796 Speaker 2: we offer. Cheaper, more affordable, more reliable power. Because when 62 00:03:48,796 --> 00:03:51,396 Speaker 2: you sign up with Base Power, we charge you our 63 00:03:51,836 --> 00:03:55,156 Speaker 2: relatively comparably cheap rate, and we then put a battery 64 00:03:55,156 --> 00:03:58,636 Speaker 2: on your home that we own and operate. So typically, 65 00:03:59,076 --> 00:04:01,876 Speaker 2: if you're a homeowner and you want a battery, you 66 00:04:01,916 --> 00:04:04,596 Speaker 2: can chop around from online. There's a handful of manufacturers 67 00:04:04,596 --> 00:04:07,916 Speaker 2: of them. You're typically paying upwards of fifteen to twenty 68 00:04:07,956 --> 00:04:09,996 Speaker 2: thousand dollars for Actually, for battery of our size is 69 00:04:09,996 --> 00:04:11,716 Speaker 2: typically twenty five thirty thousand dollars. 70 00:04:11,916 --> 00:04:14,036 Speaker 1: And why would I be buying that battery if I 71 00:04:14,076 --> 00:04:15,156 Speaker 1: was a homeowner. 72 00:04:15,476 --> 00:04:18,076 Speaker 2: Without company like us. That's really your only option if 73 00:04:18,116 --> 00:04:19,996 Speaker 2: you want a battery in your home to provide you 74 00:04:20,036 --> 00:04:20,716 Speaker 2: back up power. 75 00:04:20,956 --> 00:04:23,036 Speaker 1: So the battery, it's like instead of a generator the 76 00:04:23,076 --> 00:04:24,956 Speaker 1: way people used to buy a generator, now they might 77 00:04:24,956 --> 00:04:27,996 Speaker 1: buy a battery instead. That's right, But from you, I'm 78 00:04:28,036 --> 00:04:30,516 Speaker 1: not buying the battery, I'm what am I doing? I'm 79 00:04:30,556 --> 00:04:32,956 Speaker 1: just paying you to install it, but you own it. 80 00:04:32,996 --> 00:04:33,756 Speaker 1: Is that what's going on? 81 00:04:34,796 --> 00:04:37,076 Speaker 2: Yeah, So we have compared to the costs of the 82 00:04:37,276 --> 00:04:39,316 Speaker 2: unit with a very small upfront fee. Today it's on 83 00:04:39,356 --> 00:04:40,756 Speaker 2: the order of five or six hundred dollars. 84 00:04:41,156 --> 00:04:43,236 Speaker 1: So for five hundred bucks you install the battery. How 85 00:04:43,316 --> 00:04:45,076 Speaker 1: much cheaper is the power, by the way, than the 86 00:04:45,436 --> 00:04:46,596 Speaker 1: median power price. 87 00:04:47,076 --> 00:04:49,756 Speaker 2: We typically save folks ten to twenty percent on their 88 00:04:49,756 --> 00:04:52,276 Speaker 2: power and that gap is widening over time as our 89 00:04:52,436 --> 00:04:56,316 Speaker 2: costs to serve customers and put batteries on homes go down. 90 00:04:56,356 --> 00:04:57,956 Speaker 2: And that's kind of the whole and we'll talk about 91 00:04:57,996 --> 00:04:59,716 Speaker 2: this more later, but the whole sort of vertical integration 92 00:05:00,036 --> 00:05:03,476 Speaker 2: concept for the company continues to drive prices down for homeowners. 93 00:05:03,516 --> 00:05:06,196 Speaker 1: And then so that's basically it for me, and how 94 00:05:06,276 --> 00:05:09,196 Speaker 1: long can the battery power my house if the power goes. 95 00:05:09,516 --> 00:05:11,556 Speaker 2: So it just like you know, how often you use 96 00:05:11,596 --> 00:05:12,996 Speaker 2: your cell phone throughout a day. It depends on it 97 00:05:13,076 --> 00:05:15,356 Speaker 2: depends on your usage. Typically what we say is on 98 00:05:15,396 --> 00:05:19,076 Speaker 2: the order of a day for an average Texas home longer. 99 00:05:19,116 --> 00:05:21,596 Speaker 2: If you curtail your usage, you reduce your usage in 100 00:05:21,636 --> 00:05:21,956 Speaker 2: some way. 101 00:05:22,476 --> 00:05:24,556 Speaker 1: Great. Okay, so that's the basic model. 102 00:05:25,116 --> 00:05:28,756 Speaker 2: How's it going quite well? Actually, So we're a little 103 00:05:28,756 --> 00:05:31,196 Speaker 2: over two years into the company now. So we're based 104 00:05:31,196 --> 00:05:33,236 Speaker 2: here in Austin in the headquarters where I'm at now, 105 00:05:33,716 --> 00:05:36,756 Speaker 2: and we have operations in San Antonio, Dallas, Houston, and 106 00:05:36,836 --> 00:05:40,476 Speaker 2: here in Austin where we do tens of batteries a day. 107 00:05:41,076 --> 00:05:43,956 Speaker 2: We've got several thousand on the grid. We're going quite quickly. 108 00:05:44,836 --> 00:05:50,196 Speaker 2: Our ability to install the batteries is far out surpassed 109 00:05:50,276 --> 00:05:52,396 Speaker 2: by our demand for batteries. 110 00:05:52,636 --> 00:05:55,236 Speaker 1: It does seem labor intensive, right, having to go one 111 00:05:55,236 --> 00:05:58,876 Speaker 1: house at a time, seems like the hard, expensive part 112 00:05:58,996 --> 00:06:00,076 Speaker 1: of your approach. 113 00:06:00,556 --> 00:06:02,076 Speaker 2: Yeah, I see, there's a lot of hard parts. But 114 00:06:02,316 --> 00:06:04,836 Speaker 2: bidding them into the wholesale markets and financing and all that. 115 00:06:05,036 --> 00:06:07,356 Speaker 1: Yeah, fair, fair people always say that. When I say 116 00:06:07,356 --> 00:06:09,076 Speaker 1: that seems like the hard part. People like a hard 117 00:06:09,196 --> 00:06:09,996 Speaker 1: part of your approach. 118 00:06:10,116 --> 00:06:12,756 Speaker 2: It is a hard part, that's very right. This concept 119 00:06:12,796 --> 00:06:16,356 Speaker 2: we call the deployment factory. So my backgrounds of manufacturing, 120 00:06:16,356 --> 00:06:18,076 Speaker 2: what I was doing prior to starting the company here 121 00:06:18,156 --> 00:06:21,636 Speaker 2: was in manufacturing and assembly, and one of the things 122 00:06:21,676 --> 00:06:26,236 Speaker 2: you learn is that manufacturing and construction are very different things. 123 00:06:26,236 --> 00:06:31,796 Speaker 2: Construction is a one off, project managed sort of like individualized, custom, 124 00:06:32,116 --> 00:06:33,716 Speaker 2: non repeatable process. 125 00:06:33,436 --> 00:06:35,356 Speaker 1: You're using where it's that make things sound like it 126 00:06:35,396 --> 00:06:37,796 Speaker 1: take a long time and always go over a budget. 127 00:06:38,356 --> 00:06:39,676 Speaker 2: Yeah, and are expensive, that's right. 128 00:06:39,756 --> 00:06:40,236 Speaker 1: Yeah. 129 00:06:40,276 --> 00:06:43,676 Speaker 2: With manufacturing, you know, there's literature we didn't make up, 130 00:06:43,676 --> 00:06:46,356 Speaker 2: like what good manufacturing process looks like. But you know, 131 00:06:46,396 --> 00:06:48,956 Speaker 2: Henry Ford pioneered this in the early nineteen hundreds with 132 00:06:49,036 --> 00:06:52,756 Speaker 2: division of labor and moving assembly line Toyota. You sort 133 00:06:52,796 --> 00:06:55,156 Speaker 2: of perfected it with the Toyota production system in the 134 00:06:55,156 --> 00:06:57,996 Speaker 2: seventies and eighties, and these concepts were applying to what 135 00:06:58,076 --> 00:07:00,956 Speaker 2: is traditionally construction project So if you get a battery 136 00:07:01,036 --> 00:07:03,316 Speaker 2: or generator or solar and sold in your home, you'll 137 00:07:03,356 --> 00:07:05,996 Speaker 2: typically have a project manager. They will custom design it 138 00:07:06,036 --> 00:07:08,236 Speaker 2: for the home, and they will sort of take a 139 00:07:08,356 --> 00:07:12,236 Speaker 2: very construction focused approach. We're taking a very manufacturing focused approach. 140 00:07:12,476 --> 00:07:17,276 Speaker 2: So we've developed software that auto generates our engineering drawings 141 00:07:17,276 --> 00:07:18,916 Speaker 2: that we need to submit to the cities for permitting 142 00:07:19,076 --> 00:07:22,556 Speaker 2: and to the utilities. We have a piece of software 143 00:07:22,556 --> 00:07:24,956 Speaker 2: also that commissions the system, meaning when you turn it 144 00:07:24,996 --> 00:07:27,036 Speaker 2: on and make sure it works, it automatically checks itself 145 00:07:27,076 --> 00:07:30,356 Speaker 2: to make sure that you installed it correctly. And very interestingly, also, 146 00:07:30,756 --> 00:07:34,516 Speaker 2: we are beginning to design and manufacture the hardware, like 147 00:07:34,556 --> 00:07:38,396 Speaker 2: the literal battery and power electronics themselves, that are very 148 00:07:38,436 --> 00:07:41,996 Speaker 2: easy to install in comparison to what's available on the market. 149 00:07:41,996 --> 00:07:43,916 Speaker 2: If you just went and bought a battery for the home. 150 00:07:44,036 --> 00:07:47,156 Speaker 1: Uh huh, because you don't want some like high skill 151 00:07:47,356 --> 00:07:50,196 Speaker 1: sort of artisanal process where you need some guy who's 152 00:07:50,236 --> 00:07:52,476 Speaker 1: really good at installing batteries to do it. Right, that's 153 00:07:52,516 --> 00:07:55,236 Speaker 1: got to be that's right. That's the enemy of scale 154 00:07:55,276 --> 00:07:56,316 Speaker 1: at some level. 155 00:07:56,316 --> 00:07:59,676 Speaker 2: That's right. So reducing the skill set and training required. 156 00:07:59,876 --> 00:08:04,116 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's very Industrial revolution automation, right, de skilling. 157 00:08:04,476 --> 00:08:07,876 Speaker 2: Yeah, the concept is not like, the fundamental concept is 158 00:08:07,876 --> 00:08:10,876 Speaker 2: not new. The application to this use case is new 159 00:08:10,916 --> 00:08:12,836 Speaker 2: and is unique for what we're building. 160 00:08:12,956 --> 00:08:16,236 Speaker 1: Well, and even more generally, the application to putting it 161 00:08:16,276 --> 00:08:18,436 Speaker 1: house by house, right, Like, the whole point of the 162 00:08:18,436 --> 00:08:23,356 Speaker 1: factory is it's this incredibly sort of predictable, you know, homogeneous, 163 00:08:23,436 --> 00:08:26,476 Speaker 1: uniform environment that you can create for your optimization needs. 164 00:08:26,556 --> 00:08:28,876 Speaker 1: And a house is the opposite of that. It's just 165 00:08:28,916 --> 00:08:31,556 Speaker 1: some house, and like to some extent, every house is 166 00:08:31,556 --> 00:08:33,756 Speaker 1: different than every other house, right, Like that seems like 167 00:08:34,236 --> 00:08:36,316 Speaker 1: a thing that you are up against in trying to 168 00:08:36,556 --> 00:08:38,716 Speaker 1: quasi automate this process totally. 169 00:08:38,756 --> 00:08:40,156 Speaker 2: You have the nail on the head and this is 170 00:08:40,236 --> 00:08:42,716 Speaker 2: one of the fundamental hard parts. And this is frankly 171 00:08:42,756 --> 00:08:45,756 Speaker 2: a lot of the reason why we're designing the hardware itself. 172 00:08:45,916 --> 00:08:49,476 Speaker 1: Uh huh, the hardware meaning the battery pack. 173 00:08:50,876 --> 00:08:53,756 Speaker 2: Yeah, So the reason we're designing it ourselves is because 174 00:08:53,756 --> 00:08:55,676 Speaker 2: we're trying to abstract a way as much of the 175 00:08:55,716 --> 00:08:58,476 Speaker 2: difference of the homes as possible. So take this really 176 00:08:58,556 --> 00:09:02,156 Speaker 2: really simple example. Many batteries in the market today are 177 00:09:02,196 --> 00:09:04,596 Speaker 2: mounted to a wall because they're a little bit you know, 178 00:09:04,716 --> 00:09:07,676 Speaker 2: people at least think they're a little bit more aesthetically pleasing, 179 00:09:07,836 --> 00:09:09,116 Speaker 2: and I don't know, it's just kind of the way 180 00:09:09,196 --> 00:09:11,836 Speaker 2: it's been done, so to speak. The problem with that 181 00:09:11,996 --> 00:09:15,076 Speaker 2: is that you have to know what the side of 182 00:09:15,076 --> 00:09:17,356 Speaker 2: the house is made out of. Yeah, if it's a 183 00:09:17,356 --> 00:09:19,156 Speaker 2: stud wall, you have to go find the studs. You 184 00:09:19,196 --> 00:09:21,596 Speaker 2: have to bring all of the different fasteners that you 185 00:09:21,716 --> 00:09:24,356 Speaker 2: might need for a brick versus stone, versus stuck oversus 186 00:09:24,396 --> 00:09:26,796 Speaker 2: siding house, and then you have to train all of 187 00:09:26,836 --> 00:09:28,796 Speaker 2: your crews on how to adapt to all of that. 188 00:09:28,876 --> 00:09:30,916 Speaker 2: And so the hardware that we've designed is ground mounted. 189 00:09:31,076 --> 00:09:33,196 Speaker 2: It looks like an air conditioning unit. It's not mounted 190 00:09:33,236 --> 00:09:37,236 Speaker 2: to the wall. Again, it's a somewhat simple change that 191 00:09:37,276 --> 00:09:40,676 Speaker 2: makes a big difference in the supply chain, availability, labor 192 00:09:41,156 --> 00:09:44,276 Speaker 2: training and availability, the skill sets required, and the time 193 00:09:44,316 --> 00:09:47,636 Speaker 2: to install. That's one example. There's like fifty other examples 194 00:09:47,676 --> 00:09:50,516 Speaker 2: of things that we've done with our hardware that is 195 00:09:50,556 --> 00:09:53,076 Speaker 2: different from what's on the market today. That makes this 196 00:09:53,276 --> 00:09:57,036 Speaker 2: home by home installation motion far more efficient and easier. 197 00:09:57,116 --> 00:09:59,556 Speaker 1: Give me one other example. I like that example. 198 00:09:59,796 --> 00:10:04,876 Speaker 2: Another is the way we have made the battery modular. Oftentimes, 199 00:10:04,956 --> 00:10:07,276 Speaker 2: batteries that you buy are like one big brick that 200 00:10:07,316 --> 00:10:09,516 Speaker 2: weighs several hundred pounds and it takes a few people 201 00:10:09,556 --> 00:10:11,316 Speaker 2: to like either lift on the wall or place and 202 00:10:11,356 --> 00:10:14,916 Speaker 2: move move around. We've modular azed our system so that 203 00:10:15,036 --> 00:10:18,996 Speaker 2: it's much lighter weight and you can quick connect it 204 00:10:19,036 --> 00:10:22,156 Speaker 2: into the others. So instead of having to run conduit 205 00:10:22,196 --> 00:10:25,036 Speaker 2: and wire, which means like fasten the condo to the wall, 206 00:10:25,436 --> 00:10:28,556 Speaker 2: the fish tape through, pull the wire through, terminate the ends, 207 00:10:28,796 --> 00:10:31,076 Speaker 2: make sure you've connected it right. It's a harness. It's 208 00:10:31,156 --> 00:10:33,516 Speaker 2: like literally like you know your laptop into its charger. 209 00:10:33,756 --> 00:10:36,676 Speaker 2: It's a quick connect mechanism. So now you don't need 210 00:10:36,756 --> 00:10:38,956 Speaker 2: to know how far to strip back the installation on 211 00:10:39,036 --> 00:10:40,996 Speaker 2: the wire. Yeah, make sure you don't nick one of 212 00:10:40,996 --> 00:10:41,796 Speaker 2: the copper strands. 213 00:10:41,836 --> 00:10:44,036 Speaker 1: It's de skilling. It's if you can plug a thing in, 214 00:10:44,156 --> 00:10:44,716 Speaker 1: you can do this. 215 00:10:44,916 --> 00:10:47,796 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. That's another thing that we've custom developed, a 216 00:10:47,836 --> 00:10:51,556 Speaker 2: custom connector that makes it easy to transfer both data 217 00:10:51,836 --> 00:10:54,436 Speaker 2: and power and high power together. This is not today 218 00:10:54,436 --> 00:10:55,676 Speaker 2: that's available on the market today. 219 00:10:55,836 --> 00:10:58,396 Speaker 1: So what are your metrics like how many people it 220 00:10:58,476 --> 00:11:00,876 Speaker 1: takes and how long? Like you have some core metric 221 00:11:01,036 --> 00:11:05,716 Speaker 1: for installation? Is it people in time? Is it money 222 00:11:05,716 --> 00:11:07,316 Speaker 1: you have? Where are you at? Where were you what 223 00:11:07,356 --> 00:11:08,516 Speaker 1: are you at? Where are you trying to get to? 224 00:11:08,796 --> 00:11:10,756 Speaker 2: Yeah, So at the very top level of the company, 225 00:11:10,796 --> 00:11:13,996 Speaker 2: we track two major metrics that sort of check us 226 00:11:14,036 --> 00:11:16,036 Speaker 2: on how good we are doing, so to speak. One 227 00:11:16,356 --> 00:11:20,316 Speaker 2: is the dollars per killo odd hour deployed kill awd 228 00:11:20,316 --> 00:11:23,356 Speaker 2: hour is like a unit of energy, and so how 229 00:11:23,356 --> 00:11:25,636 Speaker 2: many dollars does it take to plug one unit of 230 00:11:25,716 --> 00:11:27,396 Speaker 2: energy into the grid essentially. 231 00:11:27,276 --> 00:11:31,076 Speaker 1: And that's including the materials and the labe's that's everything. 232 00:11:31,156 --> 00:11:33,676 Speaker 2: It's everything, Okay, that's the bill of materials for us 233 00:11:33,676 --> 00:11:36,476 Speaker 2: to manufacture at the manufacturing costs that we do our 234 00:11:36,516 --> 00:11:39,276 Speaker 2: own last mile logistics, we deliver it to the home, 235 00:11:39,356 --> 00:11:41,516 Speaker 2: that cost the install costs, all that, okay. So that's 236 00:11:41,556 --> 00:11:45,156 Speaker 2: metric number one, and metric number two is how fast 237 00:11:45,156 --> 00:11:48,196 Speaker 2: are we going? How many killo odd hours or megawatt 238 00:11:48,236 --> 00:11:50,516 Speaker 2: hours are we deploying each month. 239 00:11:50,796 --> 00:11:54,636 Speaker 1: So what is your cost per whatever killo odd hour, 240 00:11:54,676 --> 00:11:56,356 Speaker 1: whatever unit you want? 241 00:11:56,556 --> 00:11:59,556 Speaker 2: So are the dollars per kill a OT hour? We 242 00:11:59,676 --> 00:12:03,116 Speaker 2: are comparable to grid scale today and our next gen 243 00:12:03,156 --> 00:12:05,716 Speaker 2: hardware will be far far lower than that. We're already 244 00:12:05,996 --> 00:12:10,396 Speaker 2: the fastest deploying battery developer here in Texas. We're fashion 245 00:12:10,436 --> 00:12:13,276 Speaker 2: than anyone else on a megawatt hours per unit time 246 00:12:13,316 --> 00:12:14,156 Speaker 2: per month basis. 247 00:12:14,396 --> 00:12:17,436 Speaker 1: And so you're racing not against other people doing what 248 00:12:17,476 --> 00:12:20,996 Speaker 1: you're doing, but against people doing giant batteries and fields. 249 00:12:21,036 --> 00:12:25,796 Speaker 1: And you're saying you're doing more total battery storage deployed 250 00:12:25,916 --> 00:12:26,676 Speaker 1: per year. 251 00:12:27,236 --> 00:12:29,316 Speaker 2: That's right, that's the case there. And then on cost, 252 00:12:29,356 --> 00:12:31,996 Speaker 2: we're comparable to that today. In our next generation hardware 253 00:12:32,076 --> 00:12:33,676 Speaker 2: will make us meaningfully more competitive. 254 00:12:33,996 --> 00:12:36,716 Speaker 1: So the demand side is really clear. Right, you're a homeowner, 255 00:12:36,756 --> 00:12:41,116 Speaker 1: you get power, you get a backup. Tell me about you, like, 256 00:12:41,196 --> 00:12:43,876 Speaker 1: are you selling back to the grid, Like obviously you're 257 00:12:43,876 --> 00:12:47,196 Speaker 1: buying from the grid in some fashion. You're buying power 258 00:12:47,196 --> 00:12:50,836 Speaker 1: from somebody, right and then selling it to the consumer 259 00:12:50,876 --> 00:12:54,516 Speaker 1: because you're not generating it on net. Tell me about 260 00:12:54,556 --> 00:12:56,436 Speaker 1: your business as a seller of power. 261 00:12:56,836 --> 00:13:00,436 Speaker 2: So in the deregulated parts of Texas. This gets a 262 00:13:00,476 --> 00:13:01,036 Speaker 2: little nuance. 263 00:13:01,196 --> 00:13:03,796 Speaker 1: I didn't know there were regulated parts of Texas as 264 00:13:03,796 --> 00:13:04,916 Speaker 1: a naive New Yorker. 265 00:13:05,116 --> 00:13:08,156 Speaker 2: Deregulation's a bit of a misnomer actually, So all that 266 00:13:08,196 --> 00:13:10,676 Speaker 2: really means in this con text is that you can 267 00:13:11,036 --> 00:13:14,796 Speaker 2: sell power. So actually here in Austin is a regulated area, 268 00:13:15,196 --> 00:13:17,716 Speaker 2: and if you live in the city of Austin, you 269 00:13:17,876 --> 00:13:21,996 Speaker 2: have to pay Austin Energy, which is the municipally owned utility. 270 00:13:22,316 --> 00:13:24,116 Speaker 2: But if you live in round Rock, which is like 271 00:13:24,116 --> 00:13:26,636 Speaker 2: one of the suburbs north of here, you have to 272 00:13:26,716 --> 00:13:28,196 Speaker 2: choose who you buy or power from. Were one of 273 00:13:28,196 --> 00:13:32,436 Speaker 2: those options. Okay, So in terms of selling electricity to homeowners, 274 00:13:32,596 --> 00:13:35,436 Speaker 2: that business is quite good. But again it's honestly because 275 00:13:35,436 --> 00:13:39,156 Speaker 2: of the battery because as a retailer the financial model, 276 00:13:39,476 --> 00:13:41,316 Speaker 2: if you don't have any batteries, you're just a regular 277 00:13:41,356 --> 00:13:45,836 Speaker 2: old rep retail electric provider. You are buying energy typically 278 00:13:45,916 --> 00:13:48,076 Speaker 2: at the wholesale price, and then you're selling it at 279 00:13:48,076 --> 00:13:50,036 Speaker 2: a retail price that is higher, and that difference is 280 00:13:50,076 --> 00:13:52,876 Speaker 2: the margin that you're making. Most of the time that 281 00:13:52,876 --> 00:13:56,516 Speaker 2: margin is pretty good, and then oftentimes, like in August 282 00:13:56,556 --> 00:13:58,836 Speaker 2: and hot like it is now in the evenings and 283 00:13:58,836 --> 00:14:00,716 Speaker 2: everyone comes home plugs and their ev turn on their oven, 284 00:14:00,756 --> 00:14:03,916 Speaker 2: et cetera. Prices go above what you're selling your energy 285 00:14:03,916 --> 00:14:04,396 Speaker 2: to your. 286 00:14:04,396 --> 00:14:06,796 Speaker 1: The wholesale price is higher than the retail price at 287 00:14:06,796 --> 00:14:07,436 Speaker 1: certain moments. 288 00:14:07,516 --> 00:14:10,356 Speaker 2: Yeah, and so the retailer is losing money in that moment. 289 00:14:10,116 --> 00:14:12,476 Speaker 1: And that's when the business gets blown out, because like 290 00:14:12,516 --> 00:14:14,836 Speaker 1: sometimes those are crazy swings. Right, it's not like a 291 00:14:14,836 --> 00:14:17,076 Speaker 1: little bit above, it's like they are these wild whatever 292 00:14:17,156 --> 00:14:18,236 Speaker 1: tenex swings or something. 293 00:14:18,316 --> 00:14:20,756 Speaker 2: Right, that's right. So here in Texas, just put some 294 00:14:20,836 --> 00:14:23,956 Speaker 2: numbers to it. Typically, prices are between kind of ten 295 00:14:24,036 --> 00:14:27,236 Speaker 2: and fifty, ten and eighty bucks a megawat hour. 296 00:14:27,356 --> 00:14:27,716 Speaker 1: Okay. 297 00:14:28,076 --> 00:14:31,996 Speaker 2: The highest price that the grid operator ORCOT allows in 298 00:14:31,996 --> 00:14:33,676 Speaker 2: the wholesale market is five thousand dollars. 299 00:14:33,876 --> 00:14:34,236 Speaker 1: Wow. 300 00:14:34,276 --> 00:14:36,396 Speaker 2: And this happens not super often, but it will go 301 00:14:36,636 --> 00:14:37,796 Speaker 2: certainly above one hundred bikes. 302 00:14:37,796 --> 00:14:40,276 Speaker 1: So that's one hundred x more or less from fifty 303 00:14:40,356 --> 00:14:42,476 Speaker 1: to five thousand. It's one hundred x swing. 304 00:14:42,596 --> 00:14:45,436 Speaker 2: Yeah. And so if you're just a regular old rep, 305 00:14:45,916 --> 00:14:48,716 Speaker 2: you're hurting pretty badly when prices are five thousand dollars 306 00:14:48,716 --> 00:14:50,836 Speaker 2: even for fifteen minutes or thirty minutes, forty five minutes 307 00:14:51,316 --> 00:14:54,276 Speaker 2: or even you know, one thousand or or five hundred bucks, 308 00:14:54,996 --> 00:14:57,796 Speaker 2: because we have the battery. When prices are that high, 309 00:14:58,276 --> 00:15:00,396 Speaker 2: we're able to basically turn off the home from the 310 00:15:00,436 --> 00:15:03,676 Speaker 2: grid and instead support that battery or support that homeowner 311 00:15:03,836 --> 00:15:07,076 Speaker 2: with the battery. And so now from a retail perspective, 312 00:15:07,116 --> 00:15:10,996 Speaker 2: we're not losing money simply during those periods of times. 313 00:15:11,036 --> 00:15:12,996 Speaker 1: Right, because you don't have to pay the wholesale prices 314 00:15:12,996 --> 00:15:14,156 Speaker 1: when they go crazy. 315 00:15:13,836 --> 00:15:17,036 Speaker 2: That's right. And we can actually spin the meter backwards, 316 00:15:17,116 --> 00:15:18,916 Speaker 2: so to speak. We can go sell that power. 317 00:15:19,036 --> 00:15:22,116 Speaker 1: So can you sell at when it's five thousand dollars? 318 00:15:22,156 --> 00:15:23,116 Speaker 1: Can you be a seller? 319 00:15:23,556 --> 00:15:27,116 Speaker 2: We can't. In fact, that is the market signal begging 320 00:15:27,116 --> 00:15:30,356 Speaker 2: the market to put more supply into the system. 321 00:15:30,876 --> 00:15:36,676 Speaker 1: That is surge pricing. Yes, yeah, we'll be back in 322 00:15:36,756 --> 00:15:39,116 Speaker 1: just a minute. 323 00:15:47,636 --> 00:15:51,876 Speaker 2: Interestingly, also, prices are not the same everywhere on the grid. Ah, 324 00:15:52,116 --> 00:15:54,236 Speaker 2: So it's not like all of Texas electricity in any 325 00:15:54,236 --> 00:15:57,116 Speaker 2: given moments is the same. There's different prices throughout the grid. 326 00:15:57,476 --> 00:15:59,676 Speaker 2: That is a function of the congestion on the lines, 327 00:16:00,356 --> 00:16:02,836 Speaker 2: and so in an area where there's a lot of congestion, 328 00:16:02,876 --> 00:16:05,236 Speaker 2: there's typically higher pricing. At the end of that congestion 329 00:16:05,676 --> 00:16:10,076 Speaker 2: to incentivize more supply local to that point to relieve 330 00:16:10,116 --> 00:16:14,556 Speaker 2: the congestion. And so our batteries are operating differently. Our 331 00:16:14,596 --> 00:16:17,356 Speaker 2: batteries in Houston are operating different than our batteries in Dallas, 332 00:16:17,796 --> 00:16:19,636 Speaker 2: different than our batteries in San Antonio, different than our 333 00:16:19,676 --> 00:16:20,356 Speaker 2: batteries in Austin. 334 00:16:20,556 --> 00:16:25,356 Speaker 1: And presumably you built I mean, is that AI Is 335 00:16:25,356 --> 00:16:28,076 Speaker 1: it just an algorithm? I mean, presumably that is automated 336 00:16:28,116 --> 00:16:29,036 Speaker 1: to some high degree. 337 00:16:29,356 --> 00:16:31,836 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's automated. Yeah, And this is a big part 338 00:16:31,876 --> 00:16:35,036 Speaker 2: of the software tech. And we also got a energy 339 00:16:35,076 --> 00:16:40,356 Speaker 2: markets software team that's developed algorithms and direct interface with Urcott. 340 00:16:40,436 --> 00:16:44,396 Speaker 2: In the case of Texas to go trade energy basically 341 00:16:44,436 --> 00:16:44,876 Speaker 2: through Arcot. 342 00:16:45,796 --> 00:16:48,236 Speaker 1: So you mentioned Arcot and like as, I understand that 343 00:16:48,276 --> 00:16:52,756 Speaker 1: they're in a broadway sort of three grids in America, West, East, 344 00:16:52,836 --> 00:16:55,436 Speaker 1: and Texas, which is kind of awesomely Texas, right, it 345 00:16:55,436 --> 00:16:59,476 Speaker 1: seems very and my understanding is that Texas grid is 346 00:16:59,476 --> 00:17:02,196 Speaker 1: is less regulated. Right. Part of the reason is Texas 347 00:17:02,756 --> 00:17:05,316 Speaker 1: didn't want to be subject to federal regulation, so they 348 00:17:05,356 --> 00:17:07,356 Speaker 1: had their own grid. I know that's something of a simplification, 349 00:17:07,396 --> 00:17:10,956 Speaker 1: but it's it's basically right, Yeah, and so I'm curious, like, 350 00:17:11,516 --> 00:17:14,996 Speaker 1: is that why you're in Texas in part? And are 351 00:17:15,036 --> 00:17:17,996 Speaker 1: there regulatory barriers that would or will make it hard 352 00:17:17,996 --> 00:17:19,676 Speaker 1: for you to expand outside of Texas. 353 00:17:20,836 --> 00:17:23,236 Speaker 2: So the first party question is why Texas eat the 354 00:17:23,276 --> 00:17:25,316 Speaker 2: nail on the head. Part of it is because of 355 00:17:25,356 --> 00:17:28,716 Speaker 2: the regulatory environment where you can become this concept of 356 00:17:28,756 --> 00:17:32,276 Speaker 2: a wrap retail actric provider. The other is this fundamentally 357 00:17:32,356 --> 00:17:35,156 Speaker 2: separated grid. To your point, it's not connected for the 358 00:17:35,156 --> 00:17:39,276 Speaker 2: most part to the Western Nation interconnection, and that drives volatility, 359 00:17:39,596 --> 00:17:42,916 Speaker 2: which means that batteries typically can can add a lot 360 00:17:42,916 --> 00:17:45,076 Speaker 2: of value, can make a good amount of revenue. 361 00:17:45,956 --> 00:17:49,396 Speaker 1: It drives volatility just because there's a smaller area to 362 00:17:49,756 --> 00:17:51,796 Speaker 1: move power around, Like because if you have a big 363 00:17:51,836 --> 00:17:53,796 Speaker 1: grid and there's sort of more demand in one place, 364 00:17:53,836 --> 00:17:56,716 Speaker 1: you can pulse apply from one thousand miles away or something, 365 00:17:56,756 --> 00:17:58,996 Speaker 1: and you can't do that in Texas because it's not connected. 366 00:17:59,196 --> 00:18:01,916 Speaker 2: Yeah, said simply you can borrow from your neighbors in 367 00:18:01,956 --> 00:18:04,196 Speaker 2: other areas, you can't. There's no neighbors to borrow from 368 00:18:04,236 --> 00:18:04,716 Speaker 2: in Texas. 369 00:18:04,716 --> 00:18:08,636 Speaker 1: In Texas, interest, right, and volatility is good for your business, right. 370 00:18:08,836 --> 00:18:11,916 Speaker 1: That's it's a narbatrage business. At some level, you want 371 00:18:11,916 --> 00:18:14,956 Speaker 1: there to be the swings in price. That's your margin 372 00:18:14,996 --> 00:18:15,556 Speaker 1: to some extent. 373 00:18:15,636 --> 00:18:19,116 Speaker 2: Right, that's right. In the deregulated markets where we're directly 374 00:18:19,116 --> 00:18:22,756 Speaker 2: interfacing with the whole sal markets, volatility generally drives returns 375 00:18:22,796 --> 00:18:25,396 Speaker 2: on the business. So outside of Texas, the way that 376 00:18:25,436 --> 00:18:29,116 Speaker 2: this works is that you get a partnership with the utility. 377 00:18:29,196 --> 00:18:32,596 Speaker 2: So it's the same operations and the same technology, but 378 00:18:32,676 --> 00:18:35,676 Speaker 2: a different business model. So in these cases, we go 379 00:18:36,156 --> 00:18:38,556 Speaker 2: acquire customer, say hey, customer, you want a battery, and 380 00:18:38,556 --> 00:18:42,356 Speaker 2: they're like, yep, we do. We go design, manufacture, and 381 00:18:42,396 --> 00:18:45,116 Speaker 2: deploy our own battery onto their home and then we 382 00:18:45,116 --> 00:18:47,796 Speaker 2: give the keys to that battery to the utility and 383 00:18:47,876 --> 00:18:50,076 Speaker 2: they control it and they pay us for that. And 384 00:18:50,156 --> 00:18:52,196 Speaker 2: the reason that they want that is because they need 385 00:18:52,236 --> 00:18:56,076 Speaker 2: capacity to offset their demand. They import energy from the 386 00:18:56,116 --> 00:18:58,796 Speaker 2: rest of the Texas grid into their service territory. They 387 00:18:58,796 --> 00:19:03,036 Speaker 2: pay costs for that, and they have other costs like 388 00:19:03,516 --> 00:19:05,996 Speaker 2: the cost of upgrading transformers that are at the end 389 00:19:05,996 --> 00:19:07,996 Speaker 2: of their life and other things that you can offset. 390 00:19:08,156 --> 00:19:09,956 Speaker 1: Right, it's still the same problems. 391 00:19:10,236 --> 00:19:13,756 Speaker 2: It's the same problem. Yeah, I say, in those cases though, 392 00:19:13,796 --> 00:19:16,516 Speaker 2: we're not directly interfacing with the wholesale markets. Now we 393 00:19:16,556 --> 00:19:19,716 Speaker 2: give them access to our software stack that allows them 394 00:19:19,716 --> 00:19:22,156 Speaker 2: to do that on their own behalf. But that's the model. 395 00:19:22,516 --> 00:19:25,276 Speaker 1: So you're basically you're providing the battery on the software 396 00:19:25,356 --> 00:19:26,036 Speaker 1: in that setting. 397 00:19:26,316 --> 00:19:28,236 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the way we say it is. It's megawats 398 00:19:28,236 --> 00:19:30,316 Speaker 2: as a service. You as a utility are looking for 399 00:19:30,396 --> 00:19:34,836 Speaker 2: megawatts and you're bidding grid scale batteries natural gas peaker plants. 400 00:19:35,156 --> 00:19:38,076 Speaker 2: Here's another option that is faster to deploy or cost 401 00:19:38,076 --> 00:19:41,516 Speaker 2: effective and adds value in ways that centralized assets can't. 402 00:19:41,636 --> 00:19:44,556 Speaker 1: So you're competing with like a natural gas power plant 403 00:19:44,556 --> 00:19:46,796 Speaker 1: in that setting, Like instead of adding a natural gas 404 00:19:47,036 --> 00:19:50,596 Speaker 1: peaker plant, they can just deplay on what's the order 405 00:19:50,596 --> 00:19:54,676 Speaker 1: of magnitude one thousand batteries and people's houses a thousand houses. 406 00:19:55,276 --> 00:19:56,796 Speaker 2: Yeah, a little more than a thousand, but yeah, yeah, 407 00:19:57,196 --> 00:19:59,596 Speaker 2: like between a thousand and ten thousand compared to something 408 00:19:59,636 --> 00:20:01,076 Speaker 2: like that. That's right, depending on the size of the 409 00:20:01,116 --> 00:20:03,596 Speaker 2: natural gas plant. This is how we expand outside of Texas, 410 00:20:03,676 --> 00:20:08,796 Speaker 2: and we're actively pursuing opportunities frankly across the US outside 411 00:20:08,796 --> 00:20:10,756 Speaker 2: of text in the same business model. 412 00:20:10,756 --> 00:20:12,756 Speaker 1: Again, how is that going so are you doing that 413 00:20:12,876 --> 00:20:14,396 Speaker 1: outside of Texas at this time? 414 00:20:15,036 --> 00:20:18,356 Speaker 2: We do not today have live deployments outside of Texas. 415 00:20:18,356 --> 00:20:21,036 Speaker 2: We are working on a handful of deals that are 416 00:20:21,036 --> 00:20:22,836 Speaker 2: in the pipeline, so to speak. I'll say for a 417 00:20:22,836 --> 00:20:25,596 Speaker 2: few different opportunities outside of Texas. We have a few, 418 00:20:25,676 --> 00:20:28,996 Speaker 2: as I said, regulated utility deals inside of Texas, and 419 00:20:29,036 --> 00:20:31,396 Speaker 2: the goal is to be deploying batteries outside of Texas 420 00:20:31,396 --> 00:20:31,836 Speaker 2: next year. 421 00:20:32,476 --> 00:20:35,716 Speaker 1: What's something that's hard that you haven't figured out yet? Like, 422 00:20:35,756 --> 00:20:37,956 Speaker 1: what do you try to figure out now? But that's 423 00:20:37,996 --> 00:20:40,116 Speaker 1: not working? We haven't. 424 00:20:40,156 --> 00:20:42,156 Speaker 2: You know, we figured out some level of scale, but 425 00:20:42,436 --> 00:20:45,076 Speaker 2: you know, thirty or forty a day is very different 426 00:20:45,156 --> 00:20:47,916 Speaker 2: from hundreds a day, right, and hundreds a day outside 427 00:20:47,916 --> 00:20:50,276 Speaker 2: of Texas. So I'll say that like kind of this 428 00:20:50,356 --> 00:20:53,596 Speaker 2: deployment factory concept is good from the standpoint of well, 429 00:20:53,756 --> 00:20:55,076 Speaker 2: you know, if we've been a company for about a 430 00:20:55,076 --> 00:20:58,236 Speaker 2: little over two years now, but not nearly the maturity 431 00:20:58,276 --> 00:21:00,036 Speaker 2: where we need to be. We need to be much 432 00:21:00,156 --> 00:21:02,076 Speaker 2: much at a much larger scale. We need to have 433 00:21:02,356 --> 00:21:05,276 Speaker 2: hundreds of thousands of electricians in the field across fifty states. 434 00:21:05,276 --> 00:21:06,636 Speaker 2: Like this is a very different thing than what we're 435 00:21:06,636 --> 00:21:09,076 Speaker 2: doing today. The other thing that we're starting to do 436 00:21:09,196 --> 00:21:13,756 Speaker 2: now is manufacturing. So the battery itself, the major components 437 00:21:13,796 --> 00:21:16,756 Speaker 2: called eighty percent of it, we haven't manufactured ourselves today. 438 00:21:16,796 --> 00:21:20,596 Speaker 2: We've been using a contract manufacturer for that. And manufacturing 439 00:21:20,636 --> 00:21:22,236 Speaker 2: is no joke. This is like a hard thing to 440 00:21:22,236 --> 00:21:25,476 Speaker 2: get right, as you likely know, we're already starting to 441 00:21:25,476 --> 00:21:27,796 Speaker 2: do it now. We're building a factory across the street 442 00:21:27,796 --> 00:21:30,876 Speaker 2: here actually in Austin and building out a team of 443 00:21:31,116 --> 00:21:32,916 Speaker 2: what i'd like to think are some of the top 444 00:21:32,916 --> 00:21:37,956 Speaker 2: people in manufacturing, in battery design, in facility construction in 445 00:21:37,996 --> 00:21:39,076 Speaker 2: the world. 446 00:21:39,436 --> 00:21:41,796 Speaker 1: So you're building a factory, I mean you're also charging 447 00:21:41,836 --> 00:21:45,796 Speaker 1: people five hundred dollars for installation, which I imagine is 448 00:21:45,876 --> 00:21:49,796 Speaker 1: less than the battery costs you installed. No, that's right, 449 00:21:50,236 --> 00:21:54,076 Speaker 1: and presumably because it pays you back over years, right, 450 00:21:54,196 --> 00:21:57,956 Speaker 1: many years. Yeah, So it's a super capital intensive business. 451 00:21:57,996 --> 00:22:00,996 Speaker 1: You have to spend lots and lots of money now 452 00:22:01,396 --> 00:22:03,956 Speaker 1: to get paid back over a long time in the future, 453 00:22:03,996 --> 00:22:06,836 Speaker 1: which is the way utilities work. Right. You build a 454 00:22:06,876 --> 00:22:08,676 Speaker 1: gas power plan and it's going to run for whatever 455 00:22:08,716 --> 00:22:12,356 Speaker 1: fifty So, like, how do you finance that? 456 00:22:13,276 --> 00:22:15,956 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a great question. So to date, we have 457 00:22:16,036 --> 00:22:19,236 Speaker 2: been blessed with large amount of support from the venture 458 00:22:19,316 --> 00:22:23,476 Speaker 2: capital markets. We recently raised a Series C and so 459 00:22:23,956 --> 00:22:27,236 Speaker 2: that will continue to accelerate our growth and give us 460 00:22:27,276 --> 00:22:29,676 Speaker 2: the capital to continue to build all the things that 461 00:22:29,716 --> 00:22:30,476 Speaker 2: we just talked about. 462 00:22:30,996 --> 00:22:32,476 Speaker 1: How big is it? How much money did you raise? 463 00:22:33,236 --> 00:22:35,916 Speaker 2: So it's a relatively large Series C. So we actually 464 00:22:35,956 --> 00:22:38,116 Speaker 2: are closing out over the next few days here on 465 00:22:38,236 --> 00:22:40,436 Speaker 2: a billion dollar Series C inequity funding. 466 00:22:40,556 --> 00:22:41,516 Speaker 1: That's a lot of batteries. 467 00:22:41,556 --> 00:22:42,476 Speaker 2: It's a lot of batteries. 468 00:22:42,636 --> 00:22:45,156 Speaker 1: But I guess is it the factory. Is that money 469 00:22:45,156 --> 00:22:46,956 Speaker 1: going to build the factory, to build the batteries? Is 470 00:22:46,996 --> 00:22:47,556 Speaker 1: that what that is? 471 00:22:47,756 --> 00:22:50,276 Speaker 2: Yep? It will allow us to grow the team, build 472 00:22:50,276 --> 00:22:52,636 Speaker 2: the factory, build the batteries, continue to live out the 473 00:22:52,636 --> 00:22:54,956 Speaker 2: mission of putting more and more distributed batteries on the grid. 474 00:22:55,036 --> 00:22:57,156 Speaker 2: We hope to have a battery on every home or 475 00:22:57,396 --> 00:23:00,076 Speaker 2: most homes over the lifetime of the company. And this 476 00:23:00,116 --> 00:23:02,956 Speaker 2: is not a short lived company that ends up selling 477 00:23:02,996 --> 00:23:03,596 Speaker 2: or whatever else. 478 00:23:03,676 --> 00:23:03,796 Speaker 1: Like. 479 00:23:04,076 --> 00:23:05,956 Speaker 2: The idea is to make a dent in the universe 480 00:23:05,996 --> 00:23:09,356 Speaker 2: and to really have a meaningful impact. We will know 481 00:23:09,396 --> 00:23:11,716 Speaker 2: that we have sort of achieved at least part of 482 00:23:11,716 --> 00:23:15,716 Speaker 2: our mission when we see the curve of cost of 483 00:23:15,756 --> 00:23:19,436 Speaker 2: delivered electricity to homeowners meaningfully go down, and we can 484 00:23:19,436 --> 00:23:21,636 Speaker 2: attribute some of the work that we've done to that. 485 00:23:21,636 --> 00:23:23,676 Speaker 2: That's why we're all here. That's the mission of the company. 486 00:23:23,676 --> 00:23:26,276 Speaker 2: That's why we've got all the people that have joined 487 00:23:26,316 --> 00:23:28,196 Speaker 2: us on this mission, and that's what we're here to do. 488 00:23:28,676 --> 00:23:30,476 Speaker 1: When I think about what you're doing, I think about 489 00:23:30,556 --> 00:23:34,916 Speaker 1: electrification of the economy, whatever, of our power supply, and 490 00:23:34,956 --> 00:23:36,436 Speaker 1: you don't talk about it that way. 491 00:23:37,316 --> 00:23:43,036 Speaker 2: Why you know, I think it's somewhat unfortunate that energy 492 00:23:43,076 --> 00:23:46,756 Speaker 2: gets politicized. It's like literally science and engineering, and it 493 00:23:46,796 --> 00:23:49,796 Speaker 2: shouldn't be, but it is. And I can tell you, 494 00:23:49,956 --> 00:23:53,756 Speaker 2: as a not native but now adopted Texan and spending 495 00:23:53,756 --> 00:23:55,716 Speaker 2: a lot of time with a lot of right leaning 496 00:23:56,036 --> 00:24:00,276 Speaker 2: politicians and individuals here in Texas, that batteries and solar 497 00:24:00,796 --> 00:24:04,716 Speaker 2: and renewable energy is not a like, it's not a 498 00:24:04,756 --> 00:24:06,716 Speaker 2: left or right thing. It's just an economic thing. It's 499 00:24:06,716 --> 00:24:09,996 Speaker 2: just a technological thing. And so we try to avoid 500 00:24:10,796 --> 00:24:15,516 Speaker 2: sort of any verbiage or sort of like insinuation of 501 00:24:15,676 --> 00:24:17,036 Speaker 2: politicization because it's just. 502 00:24:16,996 --> 00:24:20,636 Speaker 1: Not It is notable that Texas is the leader in 503 00:24:20,716 --> 00:24:24,236 Speaker 1: solar and wind power, Like I think an underappreciated and 504 00:24:24,356 --> 00:24:28,836 Speaker 1: extremely interesting fact in the context of what you're describing. 505 00:24:28,596 --> 00:24:31,076 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, totally right. And I think a lot of 506 00:24:31,116 --> 00:24:34,436 Speaker 2: it is because there's free market principles, which yeah, sometimes 507 00:24:34,516 --> 00:24:35,956 Speaker 2: you can get you can have sort of right or 508 00:24:35,996 --> 00:24:38,076 Speaker 2: left coded or whatever, but like generally. 509 00:24:37,756 --> 00:24:39,996 Speaker 1: Yes, well that is right coded, and it gives you 510 00:24:40,036 --> 00:24:42,876 Speaker 1: more renewable energy, which is left coded. Right, That is 511 00:24:42,956 --> 00:24:44,956 Speaker 1: why it is a delightful fact pattern. 512 00:24:45,276 --> 00:24:47,836 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And it's like there's free market principles that 513 00:24:47,916 --> 00:24:51,756 Speaker 2: allow for the cheapest marginal megawad of electricity to be generated. 514 00:24:51,356 --> 00:24:54,196 Speaker 1: Which happens to be solar power in Texas, right. 515 00:24:54,076 --> 00:24:57,396 Speaker 2: Yeah, but the company is not. We don't consider ourselves 516 00:24:57,476 --> 00:25:01,276 Speaker 2: a green technology company a climate company. Like happy to 517 00:25:01,316 --> 00:25:03,356 Speaker 2: be in that crowd too, But so anyways, we try 518 00:25:03,396 --> 00:25:04,396 Speaker 2: to avoid that. That's why. 519 00:25:08,036 --> 00:25:18,596 Speaker 1: We'll be back in a minute with the lightning round. Okay, 520 00:25:18,596 --> 00:25:21,556 Speaker 1: we're gonna finish with the lightning round. What's one thing 521 00:25:21,596 --> 00:25:24,036 Speaker 1: that your dad taught you about being an engineer? 522 00:25:24,996 --> 00:25:31,676 Speaker 2: Oh? Interesting, I think to never to never sort of 523 00:25:31,716 --> 00:25:35,316 Speaker 2: take the existing solution for granted. It's very easy to 524 00:25:35,876 --> 00:25:38,916 Speaker 2: sort of color your solution to a problem with what 525 00:25:38,956 --> 00:25:43,556 Speaker 2: has already been done, and sometimes the way in which 526 00:25:43,596 --> 00:25:45,956 Speaker 2: humanity has solved the problem is the best way, because 527 00:25:45,956 --> 00:25:47,596 Speaker 2: it's sort of like the wisdom of the crowd, you know. 528 00:25:47,996 --> 00:25:50,676 Speaker 2: But oftentimes, in particular in sort of old school industries 529 00:25:50,796 --> 00:25:54,196 Speaker 2: like energy, there's a lot of existing solutions that are 530 00:25:54,396 --> 00:25:56,236 Speaker 2: not the best, especially with new technology. 531 00:25:56,916 --> 00:25:59,076 Speaker 1: Next question might have the same answer, but I'm gonna 532 00:25:59,076 --> 00:26:02,156 Speaker 1: ask it anyway. Okay, what's one thing Elon Musk taught 533 00:26:02,156 --> 00:26:03,356 Speaker 1: you about being an engineer? 534 00:26:03,396 --> 00:26:05,556 Speaker 2: Well, that's definitely a piece of it. I actually think 535 00:26:05,596 --> 00:26:08,236 Speaker 2: that the thing that I learned from Elon the most 536 00:26:08,396 --> 00:26:11,396 Speaker 2: is how much you can get done in a relatively 537 00:26:11,476 --> 00:26:17,756 Speaker 2: short period of time if you work both hard and efficiently. Oftentimes, 538 00:26:17,796 --> 00:26:19,316 Speaker 2: what I've said sort of the first part of that 539 00:26:19,356 --> 00:26:20,916 Speaker 2: sentence is like, oh, you just spend more hours in 540 00:26:20,996 --> 00:26:22,476 Speaker 2: work all night, and like, yeah, that's a part of it, 541 00:26:22,796 --> 00:26:24,436 Speaker 2: but there's only somebody like you can only work twenty 542 00:26:24,436 --> 00:26:26,916 Speaker 2: four hours in a day, and realistically you can't even 543 00:26:26,956 --> 00:26:29,996 Speaker 2: do that, not for long, not for long. But the 544 00:26:30,036 --> 00:26:35,556 Speaker 2: importance of speed and the ability to reduce what he 545 00:26:35,556 --> 00:26:38,156 Speaker 2: would say is delete the part or delete the process 546 00:26:39,516 --> 00:26:45,156 Speaker 2: is extremely valuable to solving any problem, whether it's designing 547 00:26:45,196 --> 00:26:47,716 Speaker 2: a car like he and the team does at Tesla, 548 00:26:47,796 --> 00:26:50,756 Speaker 2: or a battery like we're doing here, or something operational 549 00:26:50,796 --> 00:26:54,356 Speaker 2: with how we're acquiring customers. Always ask yourself why that 550 00:26:55,636 --> 00:26:58,876 Speaker 2: thing or that process needs to exist, and frankly, like, 551 00:26:58,916 --> 00:27:02,036 Speaker 2: at least half of the time it doesn't. Just don't 552 00:27:02,036 --> 00:27:03,876 Speaker 2: do it, delete it, move on to the next thing, 553 00:27:04,596 --> 00:27:08,396 Speaker 2: and oftentimes it's okay. The ability to design a simple 554 00:27:08,436 --> 00:27:11,156 Speaker 2: part of process is much much harder than the design 555 00:27:11,156 --> 00:27:14,196 Speaker 2: of complex one. It's very counterintuitive, but simple engineering is 556 00:27:14,276 --> 00:27:14,796 Speaker 2: very hard to do. 557 00:27:14,876 --> 00:27:17,716 Speaker 1: Right. Deleting the key thing is just get rid of 558 00:27:17,756 --> 00:27:18,956 Speaker 1: everything you can get rid of. 559 00:27:19,316 --> 00:27:21,756 Speaker 2: Yeah, you may have seen online there's like this sort 560 00:27:21,796 --> 00:27:24,436 Speaker 2: of the Starship's engine, the Raptor engine went from like 561 00:27:24,516 --> 00:27:26,396 Speaker 2: very complex to very simple, and it's like it was 562 00:27:26,436 --> 00:27:29,236 Speaker 2: actually hard to get to the simple thing. Yeah, because 563 00:27:29,636 --> 00:27:32,916 Speaker 2: as an engineer and as a problem solver, you sort 564 00:27:32,916 --> 00:27:35,476 Speaker 2: of start with the complex thing by design, and you 565 00:27:35,556 --> 00:27:38,156 Speaker 2: have to continuously ask yourself why something needs to exist, 566 00:27:38,316 --> 00:27:40,436 Speaker 2: why that system or that part needs to exist, or. 567 00:27:40,596 --> 00:27:42,596 Speaker 1: Is there a way we could make it work without 568 00:27:42,636 --> 00:27:43,116 Speaker 1: that thing? 569 00:27:43,476 --> 00:27:43,916 Speaker 2: That's right. 570 00:27:44,196 --> 00:27:48,636 Speaker 1: Yeah, what's one thing you learned about manufacturing from building 571 00:27:48,676 --> 00:27:49,676 Speaker 1: a car from a kit. 572 00:27:51,356 --> 00:27:53,716 Speaker 2: Oh you've dug You've dug into my past. I like it. 573 00:27:53,796 --> 00:27:56,436 Speaker 1: I mean it's a public we don't know any secrets here, 574 00:27:56,516 --> 00:27:57,956 Speaker 1: just on the internet. 575 00:27:58,156 --> 00:28:00,116 Speaker 2: Yeah, I love it. So the kit card belt was 576 00:28:00,156 --> 00:28:02,036 Speaker 2: a lot of fun. Actually it was based on a 577 00:28:02,116 --> 00:28:04,196 Speaker 2: most of meat. And it's like this tube frame orange 578 00:28:04,196 --> 00:28:08,756 Speaker 2: thing I've seen when you were pre before this recording stocking. 579 00:28:08,396 --> 00:28:11,996 Speaker 1: Me and we call it doing research. But no, I 580 00:28:12,076 --> 00:28:12,276 Speaker 1: like that. 581 00:28:12,356 --> 00:28:14,716 Speaker 2: I know this is great, well researched. What I learn 582 00:28:14,756 --> 00:28:20,436 Speaker 2: about manufacturing, the ability to service basically like repair something 583 00:28:20,516 --> 00:28:24,556 Speaker 2: after it has been assembled is an additional hard portion 584 00:28:24,716 --> 00:28:27,836 Speaker 2: of the engineering problem. And you also need to determine 585 00:28:27,836 --> 00:28:29,676 Speaker 2: whether or not you even need to do that. So 586 00:28:29,716 --> 00:28:31,236 Speaker 2: when you're taking a part of MOUs and be ad 587 00:28:31,316 --> 00:28:33,876 Speaker 2: to put it together, like the ability to assemble and disassemble, 588 00:28:33,916 --> 00:28:36,516 Speaker 2: and it's like does the screw have access to come 589 00:28:36,556 --> 00:28:40,076 Speaker 2: out and need some like weird angled wrench, Like oftentimes 590 00:28:40,076 --> 00:28:41,676 Speaker 2: that's sort of an afterthought. 591 00:28:41,276 --> 00:28:43,396 Speaker 1: Like that thing wasn't built to be taken apart by 592 00:28:43,436 --> 00:28:44,276 Speaker 1: a guy with the wrench. 593 00:28:44,356 --> 00:28:47,436 Speaker 2: Yeah, right, And like actually sometimes that's okay. Sometimes it's 594 00:28:47,436 --> 00:28:49,156 Speaker 2: the one way door and it's like look, if it's broken, 595 00:28:49,236 --> 00:28:51,796 Speaker 2: just replace that whole module. Yeah, we take that approach 596 00:28:51,796 --> 00:28:54,836 Speaker 2: to some of our hardware. But actually building something that 597 00:28:54,916 --> 00:28:57,556 Speaker 2: is easy to service and take apart and reassemble and 598 00:28:57,836 --> 00:29:01,436 Speaker 2: modify is very hard to do it, and you sort 599 00:29:01,436 --> 00:29:03,996 Speaker 2: of need to consciously make that decision as you're designing it, 600 00:29:04,556 --> 00:29:06,916 Speaker 2: and it's not something that everyone does. 601 00:29:07,956 --> 00:29:10,916 Speaker 1: What's one DIY project you regret taking on? 602 00:29:12,956 --> 00:29:15,996 Speaker 2: So you used to living in southern California. We my 603 00:29:16,036 --> 00:29:18,236 Speaker 2: wife and I actually like flipped a house there and 604 00:29:18,276 --> 00:29:19,716 Speaker 2: we lived in it, well we while we flipped it. 605 00:29:19,716 --> 00:29:21,276 Speaker 2: That was the first mistake was doing the live in 606 00:29:21,316 --> 00:29:24,596 Speaker 2: and for at the same time piece. The second was 607 00:29:25,196 --> 00:29:29,596 Speaker 2: I am very bad at drywall, like extremely bad. I'm 608 00:29:29,596 --> 00:29:32,276 Speaker 2: not like I think I'm like okay at carpentry and 609 00:29:32,316 --> 00:29:34,276 Speaker 2: plumbing and you know, I think i'd say decent and 610 00:29:34,276 --> 00:29:37,436 Speaker 2: electrical at this point, really bad at drywall, very hard 611 00:29:37,436 --> 00:29:40,636 Speaker 2: to make it look right, the like finesse and artisanal 612 00:29:40,716 --> 00:29:43,236 Speaker 2: nature of like mud on drywall impossible to get right. 613 00:29:44,036 --> 00:29:45,556 Speaker 2: I look up to people that can do it. I 614 00:29:45,596 --> 00:29:46,476 Speaker 2: messed it up big time. 615 00:29:47,316 --> 00:29:48,356 Speaker 1: How'd you do on the house? 616 00:29:48,996 --> 00:29:53,556 Speaker 2: The house was okay, the drywall there's I've now learned 617 00:29:53,596 --> 00:29:55,916 Speaker 2: why people put texture on walls. It's like to hide 618 00:29:55,916 --> 00:29:58,596 Speaker 2: a lot of that kind of thing. Uh, and that's 619 00:29:58,596 --> 00:30:00,356 Speaker 2: what I ended up doing, So ended up being like okay, 620 00:30:01,196 --> 00:30:01,716 Speaker 2: sort of but. 621 00:30:01,956 --> 00:30:05,836 Speaker 1: Some kind of like la groovy deco stuff. It's like, no, no, 622 00:30:05,916 --> 00:30:08,116 Speaker 1: it's lady's right, stop. 623 00:30:09,436 --> 00:30:09,916 Speaker 2: Exactly. 624 00:30:17,076 --> 00:30:21,116 Speaker 1: Justin Lopas is the co founder and COO of Base Power. 625 00:30:21,916 --> 00:30:25,276 Speaker 1: Please email us at problem at pushkin dot fm. We 626 00:30:25,316 --> 00:30:29,036 Speaker 1: are always looking for new guests for the show. Today's 627 00:30:29,036 --> 00:30:32,876 Speaker 1: show was produced by Trinamanino and Gabriel Hunter Chang, who 628 00:30:33,036 --> 00:30:36,996 Speaker 1: was edited by Alexander Garretson and engineered by Sarah Bruguerrett. 629 00:30:37,236 --> 00:30:39,396 Speaker 1: I'm Jacob Goldstein, and we'll be back next week with 630 00:30:39,436 --> 00:30:49,276 Speaker 1: another episode of What's Your Problem.