1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A seventeen year old girl 2 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:19,440 Speaker 1: is kidnapped. This is the time when she should be 3 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 1: thinking about high school prom and whether she's going to 4 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: make an A or a B on a final exam. 5 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: But Carla Walker is kidnaped. Think about it. My twins 6 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: are now fourteen. Carla's just seventeen years old when she 7 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: becomes a victim of violent crime. I Nancy Grace, this 8 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here 9 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: at Fox Nation and series XM one eleven. First of all, 10 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: take a listen to our friends at NBC five. This 11 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: parking lot was a hub of activity, a place where 12 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: all the young Westsiders would escape for entertainment. Certainly, no 13 00:00:56,120 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: one ever imagined what would happen the night of February seventeenth. 14 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 1: The doorbells just started ringing frantically in my parents' house. 15 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 1: I mean it was just banging, bang and banging. Cynthia's 16 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: Stone says. It was then her family's living nightmare began. 17 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: She was just eighteen when her younger sister Carla vanished, 18 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: had blood just coming down his face, just screaming. They 19 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: got her, they got her, they got her. They took 20 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 1: her Carla Walker was abducted. Investigators say the petite blonde 21 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:28,040 Speaker 1: was snatched from the passenger seat if her boyfriend Rodney's 22 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: car in the Bowling Alley parking lot. Rodney told police 23 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: he was hit over the head knocked unconscious. When he 24 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: woke up, Carla was gone. All he could remember were 25 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 1: her last words. So I know she was terrified. I 26 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: know she was terrified. And for her to say, go 27 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: get help, I'll go with you. Don't hurt him. That 28 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: what the kind of person she was. You're hearing her 29 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 1: family in the middle of a nightmare. Did you hear 30 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: what they said? Ringing? Doorbell starts buzzing, and then they 31 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 1: find out the worst that Carla is gone. Now, from 32 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 1: what you just heard, I guess the first thing cops 33 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:11,639 Speaker 1: are gonna do is take a hard look at the 34 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:17,079 Speaker 1: boyfriend who managed to somehow survive while Carla was kidnapped. 35 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: With me and I'll star panel to make sense of 36 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:22,079 Speaker 1: what we know right now. First of all, doctor Kristen 37 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: Middleman joining us CDO author am inc. Kim Devignon, Assistant 38 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: prosecutor Tarrant County Criminal DA's Office. Her specialty is the 39 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: Adult Sex Assault Unit. Eight years in crimes against children. 40 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: She knows her way around a courtroom. I can tell 41 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:44,959 Speaker 1: you that much. Doctor Alan Blockkey joining US forensic Psychologists, 42 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: joining us out of Birmingham, Alabama, specializing in criminal child 43 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 1: custody and abuse. Cheryl McCollum, Founder director of the Coldcase 44 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 1: Research Institute. You can find her at Coldcase Crimes dot org. 45 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crowns, Chief medical Examiner, and that's not easy 46 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:07,360 Speaker 1: to attain, Chief Medical Examiner, Tyrant County. That's Fort Worth 47 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: and at University Texas, Texas A and M Faculty, University 48 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: of Texas Medical Branch. But first to Gina Tron, crime 49 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 1: reporter with Oxygen dot com. Thank you so much for 50 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 1: being with us, Gina. I want to take it from 51 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: the beginning. So Carla is on a date with her 52 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: boyfriend just after Valentine's FIB seventeen and she's allegedly snatched 53 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 1: from the passenger seat of a car. Is that correct? Yeah, 54 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 1: they went on a date a couple of days after 55 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: Valentine's Day, you know, they went to the Valentine's Date 56 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: dam and afterwards they partied with friends and stopped by 57 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 1: a local bowling alley to use the restroom. And it 58 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: was there they were attacked after returning to Roddy McCoy's car. 59 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: He was a starting quarterback for the Western Hills Cougar 60 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: football team. And you know, they were just a couple 61 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: of teams out having a good time. And I'm as 62 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: they were getting back to his car in the parking 63 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: lot of the bowling Alley, he was beating unconscious and 64 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 1: when he came to Carlo was gone. According to police reports, 65 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 1: the boyfriend was actually pistol whipped to use. Cheryl McCollum, 66 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 1: you and I have seen plenty of cases where a 67 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: victim is pistol whip. Explain what we're talking about. They 68 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: just take the butt end of a gun, the handle, 69 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:35,719 Speaker 1: and they use it as their weapons. So they don't 70 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: shoot them, but they use that you know, wooden handle 71 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:41,919 Speaker 1: to you know, beat the day like that of somebody, 72 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: and in this case, beat her boyfriend unconscious right off 73 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 1: the bat. You know when you started that off, Cheryl, 74 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: you made it sound so um. Let me just say, 75 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: you really put perfume on the pig, because you go, well, 76 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: they just take the barrel of the pistol like that's 77 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 1: not gonna hurt. Well, he is going to hurt nancy, 78 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: especially when you're being beaten by the handle. You could 79 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 1: call it the grip of a pistol about the face. 80 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:13,280 Speaker 1: And I've seen people with places where the person had 81 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:19,359 Speaker 1: broken broken facial bones, their nose broken, the eye sockets broken. 82 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:21,280 Speaker 1: I mean, doctor Kendall Crowns. You ever seen a victim 83 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:23,840 Speaker 1: that's been pistol whipped. I have. You can do quite 84 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 1: a bit of damage with the end of a gun. 85 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: You can fracture the skull and fracture the facial bones, etc. 86 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: So it's actually quite the lethal weapon if you want 87 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 1: to use it as a blunt object to Kim Devignon, Kim, 88 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:43,479 Speaker 1: can you talk to me about the scenario A generic scenario, 89 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:46,840 Speaker 1: not necessarily this one where you've got a couple, a 90 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: man and a woman in a car. You've the man 91 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: happens to be the starting quarterback on the football team 92 00:05:54,240 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: at high school, and the girl is just gone and 93 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: the man survives to see that would that would raise 94 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: the hair on the back of my neck in a 95 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 1: general typical scenario where he somehow survives the attack and 96 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: she disappears, certainly, and when you add in loss of consciousness, 97 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 1: and you add in a lapse in time, that boy 98 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 1: and a generic scenario would obviously become a person of interest. 99 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: When you say lapse of time, what do you mean 100 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: by that? There was certainly time period, a time period 101 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: that could not be accounted for, And in this case, 102 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 1: there wasn't lapse in time, wasn't there? Kim? Yes, there was. 103 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 1: What kind of time are we looking at? You know? 104 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: That's the thing we don't really know. You're right. Everyone 105 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: was intoxicated and everyone was out partying, and so it 106 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,719 Speaker 1: wasn't like people were watching the clock. So we'll never 107 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 1: know for sure, but there's certainly a gap in time 108 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,600 Speaker 1: from the attack on Rodney in the car and when 109 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 1: Rodney shows up at the Walker's house. Wow. Now, the 110 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:07,040 Speaker 1: only thing that makes Rodney somewhat believable at this point 111 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: is the degree of his injuries. I wanted you to 112 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 1: take a listen again to Ashley Berry, our friend at 113 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: NBC five. This parking lot was a hub of activity, 114 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: a place where all the young Westsiders would escape for entertainment. Certainly, 115 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: no one ever imagined what would happen the night of 116 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 1: February seventeenth. The doorbells just started ringing frantically in my parents' house. 117 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 1: I mean it was just banging, bang of Banian. Cynthia 118 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: Stone says it was then her family's living nightmare began. 119 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: She was just eighteen when her younger sister Carla vanished, 120 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: had blood just coming down his face, just screaming. They 121 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: got her, they got her, they got her, They took her. 122 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: Carla Walker was abducted. Investigators say the petite blonde was 123 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: snatched from the passenger seat if her boyfriend Rodney's car 124 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: in the Bowling Alley parking lot. Rodney told police he 125 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: was hit over the head, knocked unconscious. When he woke up, 126 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 1: Carla was gone. All he could remember were her last words. 127 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: So I know she was terrified. I know she was terrified. 128 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: And for her to say go get help, I'll go 129 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 1: with you. Don't hurt him. That was the kind of 130 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 1: person she was. To Kim Devignon, joining us from Terence 131 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: County Criminal District Attorney's office him what time of the 132 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 1: day or night was this. I know they had been 133 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: to the dance, so it was a cold night in February. 134 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 1: It was a kind of night where the teenagers after 135 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 1: the dance were all hanging out and drinking and having 136 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: a good time. After the dance, just kind of a 137 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 1: regular evening in juniors and senior years of high school. 138 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 1: What time of the day or night was it. It 139 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: was very late in the evening. It was after midnight. Okay. 140 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: You know, Cheryl McCallum, you've been in the courtroom with 141 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 1: me many many times. He was an investigator me, he's 142 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:59,079 Speaker 1: a prosecutor. How many times have I told you, Jerry, 143 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 1: nothing good happens after midnight? Nothing nothing, You've You've said 144 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 1: it almost every single case we've ever worked. And you 145 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 1: know it's anecdotal, which means I'm recounting from stories, not 146 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: from statistical data. But I bet you anything, I bet 147 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:20,880 Speaker 1: you anything, Kim Devignon. The later it gets at night, 148 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:25,079 Speaker 1: the drunker people get, the higher they get, the more 149 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: they're tired, and everything goes to hell in a handbasket. 150 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: I can't explain it in any other terms than that, 151 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 1: but I know for a fact, Kim, nothing good happens 152 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:39,000 Speaker 1: after midnight. Yea. Our moms are all right about that, 153 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 1: weren't they. Yeah, they really were. Time stories with Nancy Grace. 154 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 1: Think about it, this young girl. It's the very odd scenario, 155 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 1: very odd, indeed, because you got Cheryl McCollum in an 156 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 1: open parking lot where there could be witnesses. You've got 157 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 1: a young girl with a date for Pete. Say he's 158 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:18,440 Speaker 1: a quarterback who's going to approach a quarterback and steal 159 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: the girl, and pistol whipped the quarterback for Pete's sake 160 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: somehow at first, Blush, it doesn't make sense. It doesn't 161 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: make a lot of sense. The other thing that we 162 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:31,079 Speaker 1: need to make sure we understand is what he's telling 163 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 1: us is an ambush like blitz attack. So immediately there 164 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 1: wasn't a threat of violence. Immediately, right off the bat, 165 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: there was violence the first place you start, Kim, I 166 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 1: don't know if you do this as well when you're 167 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 1: prosecuting cases, Cheryl, I don't know if you do this, 168 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 1: but I look at the parties involved. Credibility. Who to 169 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 1: believe is the sole province of the jury. And I 170 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: want to make sure I believe my witnesses when I 171 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: put them up on the stand and swear them on 172 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 1: us to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 173 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 1: but the truth. So help them God, I want to 174 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 1: know first that they're telling the truth. So who are 175 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: these people? Take a listen to our friends at crime 176 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:14,080 Speaker 1: online dot Com. Carla Walker and Rodney McCoy are the 177 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 1: poster couple for high school Sweethearts at seventeen. Walker is 178 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,959 Speaker 1: a four foot eleven inch blonde with blue eyes, a cheerleader. 179 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 1: Rodney McCoy, with his boyish good looks, is a quarterback 180 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 1: on the football team. It's just after Valentine's Day, February sixteenth, 181 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 1: and the couples celebrate attending a Valentine's Day dance at 182 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: their Western Hills High School in Fort Worth, Texas. After 183 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: the dance, the couple hangs out with friends at a 184 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:41,559 Speaker 1: taco bell, then go to ridgele A bowling alley. When 185 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 1: they get back to McCoy's car, Carla Walker is in 186 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 1: the passenger seat, and the couple takes Valentine's Day to 187 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:52,319 Speaker 1: heart with some kissing. You know, doctor Alan Blocky, PhD. 188 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:54,719 Speaker 1: Is that not a little redundant Blocky? I mean you've 189 00:11:54,720 --> 00:12:00,200 Speaker 1: got doctor Alan HD. I don't know. I'll think, Okay, 190 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 1: you know what, I'm going to give you the full Monty, 191 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 1: Doctor Alan Blocky, PhD. Forensic psychologists joining us out of Birmingham. 192 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 1: Did you hear what either my friends at crime online 193 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 1: did his boyish good looks. You know, they said that 194 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: about Ted Bundy, they said that about Scott Peterson. I 195 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:27,199 Speaker 1: didn't think either of them were even remotely attractive. Maybe 196 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: I already knew the facts that the case were suspected. 197 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: Why do people fall for the school quarterback and his 198 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:38,959 Speaker 1: boyish good looks. Probably because he uses his good looks 199 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:42,080 Speaker 1: to his advantage. He's probably a nice guy. He's social, 200 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: he's communicative, he shows interest. But again, the major thing 201 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 1: I go back to, you ever heard don't judge a 202 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:52,719 Speaker 1: book by its cover. I mean, I certainly didn't get 203 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: my PhD or psychology, but I know that much. But 204 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: there's got to be that initial attraction, that initial interest 205 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: to somebody before you discover that they're not so good. 206 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 1: You know, I'm curious about the search that ensued for 207 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: Carla to prosecutor joining us from Tyrant County Kim Davignon. 208 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: Did he go straight to police or did he stop 209 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: at Carla's home first? So he went straight to the 210 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 1: walker house. You know, it's kind of interesting looking back now, 211 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 1: there's not nine one one in nineteen seventy four. I 212 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: think all of us we have this instant I'm going 213 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:30,839 Speaker 1: to call the police, But in nineteen seventy four, you 214 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 1: got to get to a phone, and she actually lived 215 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:35,560 Speaker 1: less than a mile away from the Bowling Alley. So 216 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: that's where he went to the walker's house. Okay, at 217 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:42,959 Speaker 1: first I didn't like that that he didn't immediately go 218 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: call nine one one, such as in the Bowling Alley, 219 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: but knowing that the walker's home was that close, he 220 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 1: didn't have a cell phone, so he went there first. Okay, 221 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: I can't make as much of a big deal about 222 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: it as I thought I could. So that's just one 223 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:01,319 Speaker 1: of those you know, that proves him lesson which I'm 224 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: sure you have learned, as have I. In court, never 225 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 1: ask the question in front of a jury that you 226 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 1: don't know the answer too, because you will it will 227 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 1: blow up on your face. Once in a while. You 228 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 1: might get lucky, but you know, sometimes on a cross 229 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:17,320 Speaker 1: you just have to ask it because you're not going 230 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: to get another chance. It's not your witness. But typically 231 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: that's just kind of question you'd ask and get a 232 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: blow up in court. Aha, why didn't you call nine 233 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: one one? Well, because their house was you know, six 234 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: houses down, all right, So he goes straight to their house, 235 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: and that is what the sister one year older is 236 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: describing hearing their doorbells, and you know, Cheryl McCollum, I've 237 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: heard that from Victim's family so many times. They get 238 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 1: the at the door, the doorbell, and they never forget it. 239 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: They open it up and they see a cop there. 240 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: That's just what you don't want to see. At one am. 241 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: And this boyfriend, the quarterback, shows up with blood streaming 242 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 1: down his face and he says, she's gone, she's missing. 243 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 1: I've heard that over and over that people have a 244 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 1: sense of premonition, a sense of dread, even before they 245 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 1: hear the knee. Cheryl, well, what she's describing to is panic. 246 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: I mean he's ringing that doorbell, just repeatedly, trying to 247 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: get some help. And you know, from what we've heard, 248 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: the last thing Carlos said to him was go get 249 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: my dad. And these are young people, these are high 250 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: school kids. Go get my dad. Yes, And I'm sure 251 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 1: he was thinking, if I get her dad, it'll all 252 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 1: be okay. You know, he can do something, he can 253 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: save her, he can help us, So it makes sense 254 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: to me. You know, that just breaks my heart. You know, 255 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: there's those certain facts in cases, and I've told you 256 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: this before Jackie in my first carjack murder case. You know, 257 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 1: I've been to many an autopsy, a homicize scene, but 258 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 1: there's something about this poignant fact that almost almost brought 259 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: me to tears in front of the jury. The young 260 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: guy that was the murder victim carjack murder victim was 261 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 1: shot in his driveway outside his family home. He lived 262 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: with his mom and dad and the rest of his family. 263 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 1: He was gunned down dead to get his car, and 264 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 1: the neighbors saw it and ran out, then ran back 265 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 1: in and got a pillow and put under his head 266 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 1: even though he was already dead. He just that pathos 267 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 1: was very upsetting. And in this case, we're hearing go 268 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 1: get my dad, like dad could somehow be supermant and 269 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: save her from what was to come. What do we 270 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 1: know about the search for Carla Walker or this teen 271 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 1: girl that's yanked out of the passenger seat at a 272 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: bowling alley. How did the search go down him? Well, 273 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 1: it was the kind of search that you know, this 274 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 1: was the kind of crime that just shook our community, 275 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 1: and so all resources were pulled to begin searching, and 276 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 1: they searched high and low in every inch of Tarrant County. 277 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:17,920 Speaker 1: There had been some murders in years past that specifically 278 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,440 Speaker 1: one named Becky Martin who had gone missing the year 279 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:23,360 Speaker 1: before and her body was found in a culvert, and 280 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: so a lot of resources were spent looking in kind 281 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: of unincorporated areas, rural areas in cattle culverts and ditches 282 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 1: and places like that, because there was a thought was 283 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: this a serial situation and so stars so everybody immediately 284 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 1: thought it was a serial killer or attacker. Back to 285 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 1: Gina Tron joining US crime reporter with Oxygen dot Com. 286 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: So the search is on and everyone is looking for 287 00:17:55,680 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 1: Carla and ditches similar to where Becky was found. The 288 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:07,920 Speaker 1: search goes on for several days. Then what happens. Yeah, 289 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:11,879 Speaker 1: and also you know, her boyfriend described the assailant as 290 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 1: the five foot ten man, so they were looking for 291 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:17,120 Speaker 1: that's basically all they had to go off of Gina Tron. 292 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:20,920 Speaker 1: That's a really good point. He describes the perp as 293 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 1: a male five foot did you say ten? And you 294 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 1: got to take into account that he was seated at 295 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: the time he saw the purp. He was sitting in 296 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 1: the driver's seat. So with that description in mind, the 297 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,880 Speaker 1: search is on. Take a listen to hour cut to 298 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 1: our friends at NBC five. The first forty eight hours 299 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 1: were agonizing, tireless search efforts turned up nothing, no phone calls, 300 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:48,439 Speaker 1: few leads. We just waited for We kept thinking, honestly, 301 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 1: somebody would drive by in the middle of the night, 302 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:54,159 Speaker 1: push around the car. In reality, though, it would be 303 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:58,120 Speaker 1: much worse. Three days later, just alongside of the road 304 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 1: in a culvert here and you're Benbrook, Carlo's body was found. 305 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: She had been beaten, raped and strangled, police say, repeatedly 306 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:10,919 Speaker 1: tortured for days, and in an interesting twist and a 307 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: puzzling discovery, the medical examiner ruled she had been injected 308 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:21,119 Speaker 1: with morphew to medical examder joining us from tyrant counting 309 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:25,120 Speaker 1: the chief medical examiner there, doctor Kendall crowns, how can 310 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 1: they determine that this team girl had been tortured for 311 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 1: two days? They find her body on day three? How 312 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 1: did they know she had been tortured for two days, 313 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 1: not three days, not one day, but two days. Well, 314 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: it'd be a combination of things, So the torture aspect, 315 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,959 Speaker 1: it would be the cluster of the injuries about her body. 316 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 1: You know, she could have abrasions or possible injuries, it 317 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 1: looked like she's been bound, or even burn marks or 318 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:59,440 Speaker 1: whip marks, things of that nature that aren't necessarily immediately lethal, 319 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: but them being about her body shows that she's been tortured. 320 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 1: As far as the number of days are concerned, it's 321 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:11,920 Speaker 1: if she's not showing a decomposition changes, then they were 322 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 1: probably theorizing that she was alive up until a certain point. 323 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 1: And that's why with the number of injuries, it looks 324 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 1: like she had survived for a period of time while 325 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:25,160 Speaker 1: sustaining the injuries, so that would lead to the opinion 326 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:29,159 Speaker 1: of torture. Was her body out in the open? So 327 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 1: first off, her body was found in a culvert, but 328 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 1: I will say the idea that she was alive for 329 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: days has been It was a theory at the beginning 330 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 1: that has since been debunked, and so I want to 331 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: make sure that we're clear about that. Due to the temperature, 332 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: it was particularly cold and in the culvert it was 333 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:51,399 Speaker 1: the Onseene police officers described as feeling like a refrigerator. Also, 334 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: with her blood alcohol level, we know for sure she 335 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:59,200 Speaker 1: died pretty soon after being abducted, and so the original 336 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 1: theory was that perhaps there have been days, but and 337 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: she certainly was tortured. I want to be very clear 338 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: about that. But there was not a period of days. 339 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:12,640 Speaker 1: It was a period of days until we found her. 340 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 1: So let me circle back with that knowledge. What about it? 341 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crowns explain how the body will still look 342 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:27,640 Speaker 1: as if it had she had only been killed recently 343 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 1: because of the temperature. How does that work? So decomposition 344 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: is basically the body breaking down after death, being turned 345 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 1: into you know, basically simpler forms of matter eventually dirt, 346 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 1: and that happens with the activity of bacteria. And if 347 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 1: it is the body is in a cold environment, the 348 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:53,399 Speaker 1: bacteria are slowed or even inhibited, so the body doesn't 349 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: decompose at a faster rate. So you can be out 350 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 1: in a cold environment and not show any signs of decomposition, 351 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 1: even though you've been dead for days. I know that 352 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:09,359 Speaker 1: this is a very elementary comparison, but it's like putting 353 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 1: food in the fridge versus leaving it out. You put 354 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: it in the fridge, it stays fresh for a period 355 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:18,200 Speaker 1: of time. Here her body looked as if it had 356 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: just been left there, but in fact it had been there. 357 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:25,119 Speaker 1: According to Kim Davignon, in the DA's office for a 358 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: couple of days. And another interesting fact to you, Kim, 359 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: she was found in a culvert, of course, which is 360 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: a tunnel carrying a stream or an open drain under 361 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:42,399 Speaker 1: a road or even under a railroad. Was her body 362 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 1: covered by a road or a railroad had she been 363 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: dragged underneath the road. So she definitely have been placed 364 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 1: underneath a road. The culvert in particular ran underneath a 365 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:56,360 Speaker 1: kind of county road. We don't believe she was drugged there, 366 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 1: given the way the debris was settled around, and it 367 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,400 Speaker 1: was a completely dr culvert at the time. So if 368 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 1: she wasn't dragged there, then how did she get there? 369 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,920 Speaker 1: I mean, the assumption would be she was carried into 370 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:11,680 Speaker 1: the culvert, carried into the culvert. So out in the elements, 371 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:13,920 Speaker 1: it's a pretty tall colvert, like it's a it's a 372 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,920 Speaker 1: person can stand in it. It's about it's a tall colvert. 373 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: And that leads me to the morphine, which is a 374 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 1: huge clue in this case, and in my mind, would 375 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: rule out the high school quarterback. The All Americans scrubbed 376 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: in Sunshine quarterback for the high school team. Cheryl McCollum agree, disagree, 377 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 1: I completely agree. In nineteen seventy four, morphine is not 378 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,879 Speaker 1: something you buy on the street. It's not something a 379 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 1: seventeen year old kid would have that he bought in 380 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 1: or near the high school. Not at all. And plus 381 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: there was no indication that he had ever used morphine 382 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:52,359 Speaker 1: or had access to morphine. So correct, who would have morphine? 383 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut three our friends at 384 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:57,120 Speaker 1: NBC five. Who would have such access to a powerful 385 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: drug like morphine? Did the suspect have a medical background? 386 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 1: Over the years, detectives ask those questions, and many others 387 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:09,399 Speaker 1: honed in on several suspects, but evidence collected from the 388 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:13,440 Speaker 1: crime scene turned up nothing. Cynthia believes much of it 389 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: was tainted. Who do you think killed your sister? I 390 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 1: don't know, really, I don't know. Just imagine all these 391 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 1: years later, not knowing a case gone cold? Oh justice 392 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:32,120 Speaker 1: for her taken from a parking lot, now silent testimony 393 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: to a decades old murder mystery, and the family is 394 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: left to hang in the wind, to suffer as weeks, 395 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:45,880 Speaker 1: than months, than years go by with no resolution. Take 396 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,400 Speaker 1: a listen to our cut for our friend Alice Barr, 397 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,479 Speaker 1: I've seven this parking lot, many many code nights song. 398 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,919 Speaker 1: Forty five years is a long time to wonder, where, when? Why? 399 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:02,160 Speaker 1: How come? What happened to someone you love? For her? 400 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,399 Speaker 1: I just want it done, I want it closed. Carla 401 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 1: Walker was just seventeen the night she and her boyfriend 402 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 1: parked outside of a West fort Worth bowling alley. In 403 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:15,640 Speaker 1: the passenger door flew open, and a guy leaned down 404 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,639 Speaker 1: with a cowboy hat and a gun and grab Carlo 405 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 1: started pulling her out, Yet her boyfriend was knocked unconscious, 406 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 1: and when he came to Carlo was gone. Her body 407 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:29,640 Speaker 1: found three days later in a culvert, beaten, raped and strangled. 408 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,400 Speaker 1: I'll never forget the sadness in grief my mom had. 409 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,199 Speaker 1: I would always whisper in her ear that we're going 410 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 1: to find who did this to Carla. You know that's 411 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: pretty bold. It's giving me an insight into the killer's 412 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 1: mind to walk up to a car with a football 413 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,680 Speaker 1: quarterback in there with his date and drag her out 414 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 1: of the car and pistol whip the quarterback. Who is 415 00:25:55,640 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 1: this guy? I mean, what does that tell you? Ryl brazen? Bold? 416 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: Deliberate this guy? Nancy, You and I talk all the 417 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:09,200 Speaker 1: time about how critical. Not just the first forty eight are, 418 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 1: but when you have a young person abducted, it's the 419 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 1: first three hours that are critical. The reason they were 420 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: taken will become apparent in the first three hours. To 421 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 1: doctor Alan Blocky joining US forensic psychologists out of Birmingham, Alabama, 422 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 1: what does that tell you about the mind of the 423 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,439 Speaker 1: Maybe that he's committed a violent crime before, because he 424 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: certainly has a lot of bravado walking up at cowboy 425 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:39,679 Speaker 1: hat and with a gun in his hand and trying 426 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 1: to us and snatching, not trying to, but snatching a 427 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 1: teen girl from her quarterback boyfriend. Yeah, I doubt it's 428 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: the first time that he's been aggressive and harmful. And 429 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 1: let's not remember it was late at night where there 430 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 1: were probably fewer people around. I'm sure he planned it, 431 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,880 Speaker 1: he knew what he was doing, and he executed. It 432 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:00,959 Speaker 1: makes me think this is not his first time at 433 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:05,639 Speaker 1: the rodeo. Let's hear it from the horse's mouth. Let's 434 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 1: hear from Carlo's a boyfriend. Take listen our cut five. 435 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 1: This is Todd under w FAA. It was outside of 436 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,879 Speaker 1: a one time bowling alley on Benbrook Highway where the 437 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:20,359 Speaker 1: hours after Valentine's Week dance turned for the worse. He 438 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,679 Speaker 1: opened the door and she was falling out, and I 439 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 1: went to grab her and he started beating me over 440 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: the head back here with pistol. Rodney McCoy. Carlo's boyfriend 441 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 1: was left knocked out. She vanished, said and done in 442 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 1: just a matter of seconds. He was a high school 443 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,640 Speaker 1: football player, she a PEP squad member, and as one 444 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,360 Speaker 1: officer put it, we're looking everywhere. A w FA report 445 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,440 Speaker 1: from the days after showed her photo, but investigators had 446 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,879 Speaker 1: little else to circulate until the body was found a 447 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,920 Speaker 1: few days later. For me, that there won't there will 448 00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:00,960 Speaker 1: never be any closure, Rodney, it's not a suspect in 449 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 1: the case, one that has admittedly turned very cold. Then 450 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 1: out of the blue, the case is cold, comes an 451 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,320 Speaker 1: anonymous letter, and it's not the first time we've seen 452 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 1: an anonymous letter. I think of BTK buying towardture, killed 453 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:23,680 Speaker 1: Dennis Raider and many others were somehow, someone either wants 454 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 1: to help solve the case or they want attention. Take 455 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,199 Speaker 1: a listen to our cut six, Alice Barr. It's an 456 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: anonymous letter written and sent to police the same year 457 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 1: that Carla died. It points to a potential suspect. Now 458 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 1: police want to find who wrote it, hoping they'll have 459 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: more evidence to finally solve a decades old case. Now 460 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 1: a whisper from the past could bring long sought answers 461 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 1: trying to find who wrote this letter. And the letter 462 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 1: was written in nineteen seventy four and rediscovered when new 463 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 1: detectives took over the case. It lists a suspect name 464 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: police have blanked out kill Carlo Walker in Benbrog. Yes, 465 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,240 Speaker 1: it is hard to say, but it is true. Was 466 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 1: he talked to back then or her? And what came 467 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 1: of that? Investigators won't say anymore, but found it important 468 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 1: enough to go public. You know, we have social media. 469 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 1: We have more exposure now than we ever did before. Right, 470 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 1: he said something to somebody. Somebody's going to recognize that 471 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: type of thought process in writing, and that's all we need. 472 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,719 Speaker 1: As a phone call a family that still feels deep loss. 473 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 1: You've got that missing partner, praying for justice long overdue. 474 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:34,720 Speaker 1: We'll get resolution, either in this life or in a 475 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: better place. Time stories with Nancy Grace. It reminds me 476 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 1: very much Robert Darth, the real estate he on the 477 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: multi millionaire, and in his case, a letter emerges, an 478 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: anonymous letter that was used years later to link him 479 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 1: to our murder. Because of a misspelling of Beverly Hills, guys, 480 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 1: an anonymous letter comes forward. What about it, Cheryl McCollum, 481 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 1: This to me is a huge clue because the you know, 482 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 1: the handwriting is real distinct, the way they sign it 483 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: as unusual, and I think that's something law enforce it 484 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 1: needs to send our own. But also the fact that 485 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 1: they're reaching out, the fact that somebody, because of guilt 486 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 1: or whatever their reason is, has to contact law enforcement, 487 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 1: but they specifically send it to Lieutenant Oliver Ball, which 488 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 1: is again I think a clue. Somebody's watching the news, 489 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 1: somebody knows who to send this letter to. So not 490 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 1: only does an anonymous letter emerge, but we need DNA. 491 00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 1: It's just that simple, straight out to our DNA expert, 492 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 1: doctor Kristen Middleman, Chief Development Officer, author AM Inc. You 493 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 1: can find her at DNA solves dot com. Doctor Middleman, 494 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,080 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. Is it possible to 495 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 1: extract DNA in a case this old? And if so, 496 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 1: where would you find the DNA at the crime scene? Um, 497 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 1: it's absolutely possible to extract DNA from evidence in a 498 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 1: case that's old at Austin, and we've been able to 499 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:34,000 Speaker 1: extract DNA successively and identify someone from a case in 500 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 1: eighteen eighty one, eighteen eighty one. Yes, that's correct. I've 501 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 1: got to just ask you. In the eighteen eighty one case, 502 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:45,960 Speaker 1: where'd you get the DNA? Well, it was remains in 503 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 1: that case, and we identified the victim, so we were 504 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,800 Speaker 1: able to get the DNA from the remains. In this case, 505 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:56,360 Speaker 1: the DNA was extracted from the brawl Carla Walker's braw 506 00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 1: and there was unknown profile found on the and that 507 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:02,720 Speaker 1: is the DNA that was used to solve the case. 508 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 1: Doctor Mittelman, did you say the DNA in this case 509 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: a Krola Walker? It was found on her bra. It 510 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:13,240 Speaker 1: was was it epiphilial skin cells or was it touch dna? 511 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,960 Speaker 1: Was it semen? Was it blood? What was it? It 512 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 1: was semen DNA, which made it very probative in case 513 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,520 Speaker 1: there was a trial. Why do you say DNA from 514 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 1: seman makes it very probative. In other words, it's very 515 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 1: strong evidence that proves something bring a sexual assault. If 516 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 1: there is steam in DNA, it usually can be attributed 517 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 1: to the unknown male and because in this case Rodney, 518 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 1: Rodney's DNA is something that they could go back to 519 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 1: and compare. If there is another male seaman DNA there, 520 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 1: it would make sense to think that that person had 521 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 1: something to do with the attack. Yeah, you know, it's 522 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 1: very It's one thing if you have DNA that's there innocently, 523 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 1: like a male DNA on her coat or on her 524 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:06,640 Speaker 1: arm or on her hand, as supposed to male DNA 525 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 1: in semen found on her bra. When we know that 526 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:15,959 Speaker 1: she has been raped, tortured, and murdered, that's a whole 527 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:20,160 Speaker 1: another ball game. So in this case, how do you 528 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:25,440 Speaker 1: take how do you extract the old DNA? Now, many 529 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 1: many decades later, in this case, specifically, Series Labs actually 530 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 1: created the DNA extracts from Carla Walker's clothing. There were 531 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 1: several extracts created, and the one that was the least 532 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:47,240 Speaker 1: degraded and the highest quantity was sent to a different 533 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 1: labs for advanced Gruensic testing and unfortunately did not build 534 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 1: a profile. And people thought this case was sort of 535 00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 1: stalled cold forever because there was advanced friends A testing done, 536 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 1: there was standard friends A testing done, and no answers 537 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:12,360 Speaker 1: were found and awesome is actually purpose built for cases 538 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:16,760 Speaker 1: just like this where DNA testing hasn't worked, even advanced 539 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 1: DNA testing hasn't worked, and we are able to go 540 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 1: in and create what we call a high performing profile. 541 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,440 Speaker 1: It's almost like taking a better picture, a clearer picture 542 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,360 Speaker 1: of the DNA that was found at the crime scene 543 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 1: and looking at that and being able to make an 544 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:37,400 Speaker 1: identity and provide that investigative lead back to the detectives 545 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:41,040 Speaker 1: so that this cold case can now be solved. And 546 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:44,440 Speaker 1: as you said earlier, the family in this case was suffering. 547 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,520 Speaker 1: The family had spent forty six years trying to figure 548 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 1: out what happened to their sisters. Forty six years. Yeah, 549 00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,600 Speaker 1: Jim Walker lived in the same house. He wouldn't move 550 00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:58,719 Speaker 1: because he hoped that someone would come and knock on 551 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,319 Speaker 1: the door and let him no look at the end 552 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,279 Speaker 1: of their life what they had done, so that he 553 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,359 Speaker 1: could have closure, so his sister could have closure. And 554 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 1: we talked about Rodney. He was living under this cast 555 00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 1: of suspicion this entire time he lost the person he 556 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:18,440 Speaker 1: loved most, that he was still living under this suspicion 557 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 1: where he couldn't prove his innocence for forty six years. Oh, 558 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:26,440 Speaker 1: so you've got the victims family suffering, and then you 559 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:30,720 Speaker 1: have the quarterback boyfriend now grown and his whole life. 560 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:36,800 Speaker 1: People thought he may have killed Carla and gotten away 561 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,439 Speaker 1: with it, and then suddenly take a listen to our 562 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 1: cut nine our friends at DFW five. DNA technology didn't 563 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:49,200 Speaker 1: exist in February nineteen seventy four, when Western Hills High 564 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,400 Speaker 1: School junior Carlo Walker was kidnapped outside of Bowling Alley, 565 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 1: her body found three days later near Benbrook Lake. In 566 00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:59,560 Speaker 1: the forty six years since, police have searched for clues, 567 00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,680 Speaker 1: no arrests until now him So thankful for the four 568 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 1: Worth Police Department. Carlo's brother Jim. The feeling that I 569 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 1: had when I was notified, the word that came across 570 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:18,000 Speaker 1: my brain was finally, Finally. Glenn McCurley, a seventy seven 571 00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 1: year old retired truck driver, was living quietly with his 572 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:24,400 Speaker 1: wife in this modest home of Vickery Boulevard when police 573 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,600 Speaker 1: picked him up and booked him on capital murder. Wow, 574 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:32,080 Speaker 1: Kim Devinyon joining us from Tarrant County DA's office. It's 575 00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:36,200 Speaker 1: one thing to get DNA off the victim's bra but 576 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,439 Speaker 1: how in the world do you know where to go? Then? 577 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,000 Speaker 1: With that DNA It's like how when people go, hey, 578 00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:44,799 Speaker 1: couldn't you get a fingerprint and you say, yeah, I've 579 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,239 Speaker 1: got a fingerprint from the crime scene. But I gotta 580 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:50,080 Speaker 1: find somebody to match it too. So let me go 581 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,799 Speaker 1: straight back to doctor middleman. How was the DNA off 582 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:59,279 Speaker 1: Carlos bra connected to this perp, Glenn McCurley. So we 583 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,799 Speaker 1: were able to build a high performing DNA profile that 584 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:08,200 Speaker 1: was uploadable to genealogical databases consented for law enforcement use. 585 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,239 Speaker 1: This profile had hundreds and hundreds of thousands of markers, 586 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:16,640 Speaker 1: so when uploaded, we were able to identify all of 587 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,719 Speaker 1: the matches that were in the databases and where this 588 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,840 Speaker 1: person sit on a family tree, and we were able 589 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:28,000 Speaker 1: to identify that it was a m curly and contact 590 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:33,399 Speaker 1: the investigators and let them know that there were two possibilities, 591 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,600 Speaker 1: a few possibilities of who the person could be. And 592 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:42,160 Speaker 1: once the investigators heard that, he immediately recognized there was 593 00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:47,120 Speaker 1: a detective menute. He immediately recognized that that name was 594 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,680 Speaker 1: on his suspect list from nineteen seventy four. Amazing, So 595 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:52,800 Speaker 1: I have to go all the way back the family 596 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:57,000 Speaker 1: tree and then come back down and figure out who 597 00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,000 Speaker 1: lives in the city, who was in the city at 598 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,239 Speaker 1: the time she was kid app Take a listen hour 599 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:05,240 Speaker 1: cut eight. This is Lily Sang. According to the arrest warrant, 600 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 1: for Worth, officers collected trash from a been outside mccurley's home. 601 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 1: They were tested trying to find a match to DNA 602 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:15,840 Speaker 1: found on Walker's clothing, DNA that would leader match McCurley. 603 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,840 Speaker 1: The feeling that I had when when I was notified, 604 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 1: the word that came across my brain was finally. Walker's brother, Jim, 605 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:29,400 Speaker 1: says the family has lived through Darky's waiting for justice, 606 00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:33,160 Speaker 1: but this resolution, he says, is something they've prayed for, 607 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,640 Speaker 1: prayers which now extend to McCurley too. We don't hate you, 608 00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:40,000 Speaker 1: We really are praying for you. I hope that the 609 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:44,879 Speaker 1: city of for Worth has prayers for the family. It's 610 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:49,520 Speaker 1: not their fault, guys. What it boils down to is 611 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:56,880 Speaker 1: because of DNA expertise there at Authram Inc. Going all 612 00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:00,799 Speaker 1: the way back for about one hundred years, literally, they 613 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:04,640 Speaker 1: narrowed down the possible male purps. Then they identify who 614 00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,560 Speaker 1: was in the city at the time the murder occurred, 615 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:11,600 Speaker 1: then they find that suspect and they obtain his DNA 616 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,040 Speaker 1: out of the trash. But I want you to hear 617 00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:20,440 Speaker 1: the Glenn McCurley in his own words, whining to police. 618 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:24,840 Speaker 1: This is NBC five our cut eleven. Glenn McCurley in 619 00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:40,279 Speaker 1: his own words, then seventy seven year old first defiant, 620 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:44,279 Speaker 1: insisting he did not kill Carlo Walker in nineteen seventy four, 621 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:54,600 Speaker 1: didn't even know her, then seemingly confessing a false confession 622 00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,920 Speaker 1: detectives forced out of a sick elderly man, argues his defense, 623 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:00,880 Speaker 1: a curly had been a suspect after the murder for 624 00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,239 Speaker 1: owning a gun magazine like the one found on the 625 00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:07,160 Speaker 1: scene of Walker's brutal kidnapping. There you were hearing McCurley 626 00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:10,239 Speaker 1: in his own words, whining I didn't do anything and 627 00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:17,239 Speaker 1: literally crying in, boohoo ing and nodding the whole shebang, 628 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:22,439 Speaker 1: until finally he says, I guess I choked her to death. Well, 629 00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:28,719 Speaker 1: the defense claims that police brutalized the defendant and forced 630 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:32,359 Speaker 1: a confession out of him that he really didn't do it. Yeah, 631 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,640 Speaker 1: what about that DNA match? What does that mean? In 632 00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:39,479 Speaker 1: the end, Kim Devin Yon what happens in court. So 633 00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:46,000 Speaker 1: we spent many, many, many weeks in suppression hearings because 634 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,960 Speaker 1: this was new technology, and the court ruled the DNA 635 00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:52,200 Speaker 1: was going to be admissible, and so at that point 636 00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:54,920 Speaker 1: we thought perhaps he would plead guilty, but he didn't, 637 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:58,160 Speaker 1: and so we prepared for trial, and we got to 638 00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:01,080 Speaker 1: our trial, and three days into the trial, when we 639 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:05,319 Speaker 1: were on our last few witnesses, honestly, he changes plea 640 00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,000 Speaker 1: to guilty. And in Texas, when you're charged with capital 641 00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:10,399 Speaker 1: murder and we're not seeking the des penalty, the only 642 00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:12,759 Speaker 1: sentence of life, and so he was immediately sentenced to 643 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,040 Speaker 1: life in prison. So Kim, you got him, We got him, 644 00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:20,200 Speaker 1: You got him. P t. L. After all the suffering 645 00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:23,160 Speaker 1: that family has been through, to all the suffering the 646 00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:27,239 Speaker 1: quarterback boyfriend has been through. With this cloud hanging over 647 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:30,239 Speaker 1: his head, people still whispering he did it, he did it, 648 00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:33,480 Speaker 1: and now it's a done deal. The guy played guilty, 649 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:38,279 Speaker 1: he did it, all that crying and slobbering, in the 650 00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:42,160 Speaker 1: end he admits he did it. Doctor Millman, has it 651 00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:46,560 Speaker 1: feel amazing? It was the first time this technology a dance. 652 00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:50,040 Speaker 1: Friends at the DNA testing has been admitted in court. 653 00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:54,280 Speaker 1: I think this shows the importance of working with Alb. 654 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:58,000 Speaker 1: Like author Martine of Custody maintain from the very beginning 655 00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:01,719 Speaker 1: where there's not DNA, ain't going around the country or 656 00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:06,359 Speaker 1: having volunteers work on this case. It's extremely important, man, 657 00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:10,600 Speaker 1: it really is, doctor Middleman, I mean you, the chief 658 00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:14,360 Speaker 1: development officer at ath Ran, hand in hand with the 659 00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:19,120 Speaker 1: prosecutor Kim Davignon, has brought this family who suffered over 660 00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:29,080 Speaker 1: forty years peace. Finally justice. Nancy Grace signing off goodbye 661 00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:26,440 Speaker 1: for