1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:06,120 Speaker 1: M I want to start this episode with a warning. 2 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: What we're going to talk about in the next two 3 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:11,880 Speaker 1: episodes actually is is incredibly dark and unspeakably violent. We 4 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: will be discussing the possibility of the United States descending 5 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: into the kind of apocalyptic, city annihilating violence that people 6 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:21,439 Speaker 1: in Syria know all too well, even in the event 7 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: of a second American Civil War. I do not find 8 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: these scenarios particularly likely. We are talking about the very 9 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: worst case scenario of the very worst case scenario here. 10 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 1: But everything I will discuss in this and the next 11 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 1: episode has been reality for millions of people across the world, 12 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 1: and so we will talk about such possibilities here too. 13 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:43,880 Speaker 1: Please do not listen to these episodes if you feel 14 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 1: they will be more than you can handle emotionally. Please 15 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: do not take them as my prophecy for what will happen, 16 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 1: only what might if every Domino falls in the worst 17 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: possible way. With all that said, it's time for a story. 18 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: Bombs bomb MS bombs between the air strikes and the 19 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: mortars twenty have hit close enough to rattle the frame 20 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: of your apartment building. In the last day, your windows 21 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 1: are a distant, forlorn memory. The water pipes went weeks ago, 22 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:13,479 Speaker 1: and with that your hope of ever using your shower again. 23 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 1: One of your neighbors managed to liberate a pallett of 24 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 1: baby wipes, though the other day you realize that you 25 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:20,960 Speaker 1: now value a single pack of the things more than 26 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 1: every electronic gadget you've ever owned. The day provides some relief. 27 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: Someone you've heard it was the Canadians supplied the separatists 28 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,680 Speaker 1: in your neighborhood with man portable anti aircraft missile launchers. 29 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:34,319 Speaker 1: They knocked out a couple of helicopters last week, and 30 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 1: ever since then the federal forces have been more cautious 31 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:39,759 Speaker 1: during the day. It's weird to think of the munitions 32 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: and craft your tax dollars paid for being used to 33 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: bombard your hometown. It's even weirder to look out from 34 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: your roof during the day and see the dominionist militia, 35 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: bedecked in their fiery crosses, firing from up armored Ford 36 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:55,559 Speaker 1: f one fifties into the separatist fighting positions around your neighborhood. 37 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: Most days, they broadcast propaganda from loudspeakers built into the 38 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 1: backs of AND's begging heathens in the city. You guess 39 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: that includes you to throw down their arms and accept 40 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 1: God and America back into their lives. At this point, 41 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: you pray to just about anyone if it meant not 42 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 1: taking indirect fire all day, every day. But you've seen 43 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: pictures of what life is like in the areas under 44 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: dominionist control. The other day, one of your friends showed 45 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: you a video of a stoning twenty or thirty militiamen 46 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:24,640 Speaker 1: throwing rocks at a pair of trans women. You almost 47 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: puked up what little food was left in your stomach. 48 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: You're not sure how much of that the federal forces 49 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: know about. Surely things haven't gotten so bad that the 50 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: government would approve of such brutality, But you know they 51 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 1: need the manpower the militias provide, and maybe it's as 52 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: simple as that. The government is happy to look the 53 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: other way for anyone who can help them maintain control. Yesterday, 54 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: one of your friends in the municipal defense units told 55 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 1: you about a transport caravan headed out of the city 56 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 1: through a thin strip of friendly territory leading up north 57 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:55,639 Speaker 1: to what used to be Washington State. The journey will 58 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: take days. Washington wasn't exactly close before the war, and 59 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: the road system has been fucked by years of i e. D. 60 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: S bombings and lack of maintenance under the patchwork of 61 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 1: sectarian militias. But if you can make it up there, 62 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 1: you've heard there are buses that will take you up 63 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: to the Canadian border. Of course, back when this all 64 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: started you considered immigrating. Everyone did, but you convinced yourself 65 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:18,359 Speaker 1: that things would get better. Even a few months ago 66 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 1: that had seemed possible. But now the boom of a 67 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: howitzer rips through the air, as if to punctuate your 68 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: internal debate. You instantly recognize it as incoming fire, and 69 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: you dart into the bathroom to take cover. The shell 70 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: lands somewhere close. The blast rattles the foundation of your building, 71 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: but it clearly wasn't a direct hit. You hear the 72 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: now familiar sound of wounded people shrieking in pain. Some 73 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: of them are children. You want to grab your first 74 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: aid kit and run to them, but you shelter in 75 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: place for a while longer. The dominionists have a thing 76 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: for double tap strikes, and you expect another round or 77 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: two will be headed in the same direction to hit 78 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 1: any first responders. Less than a minute later, the cannon 79 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 1: booms again and a second blast silences the screams of 80 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: your wounded napeers. You're overwhelmed with a curious mix of 81 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 1: shame and gratitude that you guessed right. Slowly, you pick 82 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: yourself up and head to the window to survey the damage, 83 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: and as you look out at the still smoking rubble 84 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: of yet another home, you make your decision. It's time 85 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: to leave. One fine summer morning, two years ago, I 86 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 1: stood on a hill in Mosele and watched AGED sixty 87 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 1: four Apache attack helicopters drill thirty millimeter chain gun rounds 88 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: and thermobaric hellfire missiles into city blocks filled with people. 89 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: It didn't look at all the way it looks in movies. 90 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:36,039 Speaker 1: There were no bright orange blossoms of fire, just plumes 91 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:38,719 Speaker 1: of black and gray smoke, bursting across the horizon and 92 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:42,040 Speaker 1: curling up to the sky. That afternoon, I walked through 93 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 1: the neighborhood those Apaches had pounded all morning. Concrete, plaster, wood, 94 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:48,799 Speaker 1: and human bodies had been pounded into a substance finer 95 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: than sand, a gritty, all pervasive sort of dust that 96 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:55,480 Speaker 1: enveloped everything. The neighborhood, which hours ago had been filled 97 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 1: with beautiful homes, and apartment blocks had been turned into 98 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: something that looked like the surface of the moon. As 99 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,160 Speaker 1: I clambered over the collapsed apartments, giving a wide berth 100 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: to unexploded bomblets still wedged in the rubble, the smell 101 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: of rotten corpses bubbled up from below. It's stuck in 102 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 1: my nose. Even now, two years later, I can still 103 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: smell it. Sometimes I have nightmares about Mosele. Some nights, 104 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 1: none of them are about the actual close calls I 105 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 1: had in that city, the mourners and sniper rounds that 106 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 1: landed too close for comfort. My nightmares all involve planes 107 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:26,719 Speaker 1: and helicopters, the smell of dead bodies trapped under rubble, 108 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:29,679 Speaker 1: in the sight of other cities in other countries, wreathed 109 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: in the same black smoke I saw rising from Mosle. 110 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:36,839 Speaker 1: Carpet bombing has been a key aspect of American military 111 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: strategy since World War Two. Precision munitions have allowed for 112 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 1: somewhat less randomness in the process, but any one who 113 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: saw Mosele or Rockaws and Syria can tell you that 114 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:48,479 Speaker 1: precision is a word with a lot of wiggle to it, 115 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: and since two thousand seventeen, the trend in American military 116 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:55,919 Speaker 1: doctrine has not been towards fewer civilian casualties. By June 117 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,479 Speaker 1: of that year, President Trump had dropped almost as many 118 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: bombs as Oboma did in all of two thousand sixteen. 119 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: By the end of two thousand seventeen, the US had 120 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: launched fifty more air strikes than we had in the 121 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 1: previous year. Civilian casualties had risen by two hundred and 122 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 1: fifteen percent. The leveling of Rocaw and Mosel were only 123 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 1: possible because those cities were distant, foreign and filled with 124 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: non white people. It's hard to imagine an American president 125 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 1: ordering the carpet bombing of an American city, but perhaps 126 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 1: it shouldn't be. I've begun to expect that the path 127 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: to an American mosle is not as long or as 128 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: winding as I had previously hoped. The book Cities under 129 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: Siege points out that fifteen years ago, American military planners 130 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: and tacticians were already well used to treating our own 131 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 1: cities as targets as long as those cities were seen 132 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: as majority non white quote. Some U. S Army officers 133 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: discussed their highly militarized response to the Katrina disaster as 134 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 1: an attempt to take back New Orleans from African American insurgencies. 135 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: Rather than organizing a massive humanitarian response that treated Katrina's 136 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 1: victims as city pisons who required immediate help, officials eventually 137 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: executed a largely military operation. Such a response merely reinforced 138 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: the idea that it is equally fitting to treat both 139 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: external and internal geographies as the sites of state backed 140 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: wars against racialized and bio politically disposable their word others, 141 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: The Katrina operation dealt with those abandoned in the central 142 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: city as a threat to be contained, targeted, and addressed 143 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:26,239 Speaker 1: as a means of protecting the property of the largely 144 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: white suburban and ex urban populations who had escaped in 145 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: their own cars. In the process, African American citizens of 146 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 1: New Orleans were made refugees within their own country. As 147 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: Robert Starn and Ellis Show had contend, Katrina not only 148 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 1: ripped the roofs off of Gulf Coast houses, but also 149 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: ripped the facade off the national security state in the 150 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: event of a second American Civil War with armed resistance 151 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: against the state and whole cities, or at least chunks 152 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: of whole cities standing an open revolt, that facade would 153 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: slip further. This would not happen quickly. There would be 154 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 1: great resistance to the idea of deploying American power against 155 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: our own cities. But imagine our military pushed past its 156 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: limits of manpower, dealing with thousands of injured and dead, 157 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: and probably just as many deserters. As I mentioned in 158 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 1: the last episode. Tiny Iraq and large sparsely populated Afghanistan 159 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 1: already did this to our forces, minus the desertion in 160 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: that much less severe situation. Are Military and political leaders 161 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: responded with a vast escalation in the air war, more 162 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: drones and more bombs to compensate for fewer available boots 163 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 1: on the ground. Remember Jeremy Christian's words after stabbing two 164 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: men to death on the Portland Max train, that's what 165 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 1: liberalism gets you. Two years or so into the Second 166 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: American Civil War, with military casualties rising, the economy collapsed, 167 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: and of course months of hateful propaganda directed against the 168 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: separatists and insurgents, well, I don't have trouble imagining the 169 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 1: American government and a chunk of the country who chose 170 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: to back them, supporting a violent air war against their 171 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: former countrymen. That's what separatism gets you. Gregory Clancy is 172 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:00,319 Speaker 1: a professor of history at the University of Singing, a poor, 173 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 1: a full Bright scholar, and an expert in the evolution 174 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 1: of U S military doctrine. He's quoted liberally in Cities 175 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 1: under Siege discussing the left right divide in this country. Quote, 176 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, the grand division in 177 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 1: American politics is not East. First, is west or north 178 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: versus South. It's not even rural versus urban middle class, 179 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 1: because the really powerful Republican squares are suburbs and exurbs 180 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: full of more recent settler refugees from the Blue flex themselves. 181 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 1: No one dislikes the Blue Democratic urban flex more than 182 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: those who resettled its edges, the trekkers in that great 183 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:35,199 Speaker 1: exodus that began in the nineteen forties and continues strongly today. Now, 184 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: that was written back in two thousand ten, but it's 185 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 1: only grown truer with the passage of years. A two 186 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:43,959 Speaker 1: thousand fourteen Washington Post article humorously titled breaking Partisans of 187 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 1: the two parties hate each other noted quote, seventy nine 188 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: percent of Democrats have unfavorable attitudes about the Republican Party. 189 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: Eighty two percent of Republicans have unfavorable attitudes about the 190 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 1: Democratic Party. Absolutist rejection is quite common. Roughly one third 191 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: of partisans believe the opposition is a threat to the 192 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: nation's well being. Only around thirty percent of each party 193 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 1: viewed the other party in a hugely unfavorable light. That number, then, 194 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,679 Speaker 1: has almost tripled in twenty years, and as I outlined 195 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: in the first episode of this series, things have only 196 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:17,680 Speaker 1: grown more viciously polarized in the years since that Washington 197 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: Post article from two thousand nineteen. It is distinctly normal 198 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 1: to run into what's called eliminationist rhetoric directed against the 199 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 1: political other. In mid April two thousand nineteen, Pacific Standard 200 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: magazine published an article titled the far right doesn't want 201 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: to beat the left, it wants to exterminate it. That 202 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: article noted quote. Right wing pundits have joked about murdering 203 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 1: people on the left for years. In the nineteen nineties, 204 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:44,959 Speaker 1: talk radio show host Brush Limbaugh equipped I tell people, 205 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 1: don't kill all the liberals, leave enough so that we 206 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: can have two on every campus, living fossils, so that 207 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: we will never forget what these people stood for. His 208 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:55,559 Speaker 1: words were echoed recently by the neo Nazi Chris Cantwell, 209 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 1: who ranted in a gap post that leftist should face 210 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 1: complete and total destruction. Memes and jokes about free helicopter 211 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 1: rides for leftists like Bernie Sanders have become common on 212 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:07,199 Speaker 1: the right as well. This is a reference to Chilean 213 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 1: dictator Augusto Pinochet, who murdered some of his left wing 214 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:14,440 Speaker 1: opponents by throwing them from helicopters. In two thousand fifteen, 215 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 1: John Russell Houser opened fire in a Lafayette, Louisiana movie 216 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 1: theater during a showing of Amy Schumer's train wreck. His 217 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: explicit goal was to kill liberals. Before his shooting, Houser 218 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:27,560 Speaker 1: wrote this about Dylan Rufe's murder of nine worshippers at 219 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 1: a black church in Charleston. Had Dylan Rufe reached political maturity, 220 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: he would have seen that the word is not the 221 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: N word but liberal. David NewART, a journalist and expert 222 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 1: on far right radicalization, has been warning about this for 223 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: quite some time. His two thousand nine book The Eliminationists, 224 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 1: published one year before Cities under Siege, traced out an 225 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 1: already compelling and terrifying trend of far right violence against liberals. 226 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: NewART wrote about a number of murders and attempted murders, 227 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 1: most of which I hadn't read about before reading his book. 228 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 1: The most shocking of them happened in July two thousan 229 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: an eight, when Jim David Atkinson opened fire in the 230 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 1: Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church in Knoxville, killing two people. 231 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:11,199 Speaker 1: His four page manifesto included the line all liberals should 232 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: be killed. Atkinson explained that he had targeted the church 233 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: because of its liberal teachings and his belief that all 234 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:19,200 Speaker 1: liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country, 235 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: and that he had felt that democrats had tied his 236 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 1: country's hands in the war on terror and they had 237 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 1: ruined every institution in America with the aid of media outlets. 238 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: When police later combed through Atkinson's home, they found books 239 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: written by a number of mainstream conservatives, Liberalism is a 240 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: Mental Disorder by Michael Savage, let Freedom Ring by Sean Hannity, 241 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: and The o'iley Factor by Bill o'reiley. In his manifesto, 242 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: Atkinson expressed frustration at his inability to reach and attack 243 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 1: any democratic elected leaders. I couldn't get to the generals 244 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:50,679 Speaker 1: and high ranking officers of the Marxist movement, so I 245 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,079 Speaker 1: went after the foot soldiers, the chicken ship liberals that 246 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: vote in these traitorous people. Someone had to get the 247 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:58,680 Speaker 1: ball rolling. I volunteered. I hope others do the same. 248 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 1: It's the only way we can read America of this 249 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: cancerous pestilence. In January of this year, I ran across 250 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 1: a Facebook post by a member of the right wing 251 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: street gang Patriot Prayer, Carmen Estel. She said this, we 252 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: are deep into spiritual warfare. Now. This is why the 253 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:16,559 Speaker 1: evildoers don't even realize how evil they truly are. They 254 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 1: have become robotic. They are simply a vessel for the darkness. 255 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 1: When you start seeing words like robotic used to describe 256 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 1: human beings, what you're seeing is called dehumanization. It's one 257 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: of the first steps necessary if you plan to prepare 258 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 1: one group of human beings to kill another group of 259 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:35,440 Speaker 1: human beings. Every genocide and mass killing and history has 260 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 1: involved some degree of dehumanization. The book Less than Human 261 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 1: by David Livingstone Smith deals with this phenomenon in great detail. 262 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 1: He notes quote dehumanization is the belief that some beings 263 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: only appear human, but beneath the surface, where it really counts, 264 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 1: they aren't human at all. The Nazis labeled Jews as 265 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:57,199 Speaker 1: unter mentioned subhumans because they were convinced that although Jews 266 00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 1: looked every bit as human as the average Arian, this 267 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: was a facade, and that concealed beneath it, Jews were 268 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 1: really filthy, parasitic vermin. In as the Holocaust was ramping up, 269 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: Hitler delivered a speech in which he described international jewelry 270 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: as the ferment of decomposition of people's and states. Just 271 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: as it was an antiquity, it will remain that way 272 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: as long as people do not find the strength to 273 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:34,600 Speaker 1: get rid of the virus. Such language has grown increasingly 274 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: common in our current political discourse. In two thousand fourteen, 275 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: Fox News published an article titled, Wake Up America, Liberalism 276 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 1: is a virus too. The article, written at the height 277 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: of the Ebola outbreak, directly compared liberalism to that virulent disease. 278 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 1: It's not so different from Adolph Hitler's constant comparisons of 279 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 1: Jewish people to typhus than the most terrifying illness of 280 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: the day now, in the interest of fairness, I googled 281 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: around to see if could find examples of liberals and 282 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 1: leftists making the same claim about conservatives. It took about 283 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: half a second to find a meme saying literally that 284 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 1: conservatism is a virus that is destroying America. It seems 285 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 1: to have been the creation of a very lame tumbler 286 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: titled conservatism is destroying our future. The humanization is not 287 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: a one sided process in this country, and that kind 288 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 1: of language should concern you no matter what side of 289 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: the isle it comes from. People are not viruses. Jim 290 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 1: Hodgkinson was a politically active liberal and small business owner. 291 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 1: He was active in the occupy movement in two thousand 292 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: eleven and was interviewed by Fox two News and St. 293 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: Louis about his support. At the time, Jim said, the 294 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: nine and nine percent are getting pushed around and the 295 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 1: one percent are just not giving a dam, so we've 296 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: got to speak up for the whole country. In two 297 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: thousand and twelve, he wrote letters to his local newspapers stating, 298 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 1: let's vote all Republicans out of Congress and get this 299 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 1: country back on track. At this point, Jim seemed to 300 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: be a pretty normal Democrat, and like most Democrats, Jim 301 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: was horrified by the election of Donald Trump. At some 302 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 1: point between November two thousand sixteen and June two thousand seventeen, 303 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: Jim Hodgkinson decided that protesting and voting was no longer enough. 304 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: He took a rifle to a baseball field where several 305 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 1: Republican congress people and their aids were practicing for a 306 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 1: charity baseball game and opened fire. He injured five people, 307 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 1: including Congressman Steve Scalise, before being fatally wounded by law enforcement. 308 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: We do not have as complete a log of Hodgkinson's 309 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: Internet history as I would like. Prominent right wing terrorists 310 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 1: like the Magabomber left us with more data to work with, 311 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: but we do know a few things about Hodgkinson. Within 312 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 1: a year of Trump selection, his business failed and he 313 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 1: wound up homeless, living out of his vehicle in a 314 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: gym bag showering at the local y m c A. 315 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 1: Now I have found significantly more examples of violent far 316 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 1: right radicalism than violent far left radicalism. It's worth repeating 317 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 1: that every single American killed by domestic terrorists in two 318 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: thousand eighteen died at the hands of a right wing extremist. However, 319 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 1: Jim is proof that violent radicalization occurs across the political spectrum. 320 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 1: And I think that as the economy drops and the 321 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: impact of climate change becomes more severe, leave more people 322 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: homeless and destitute, we will see more people on the 323 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 1: left lose hope in the ballot and turn to the 324 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: bullet I don't know what path of dehumanizing rhetoric helped 325 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 1: lead Jim to open fire on a group of strangers, 326 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: but considering how much time I'm about to spend talking 327 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 1: about right wing eliminationism, I should probably talk about another 328 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 1: aspect of it on the left that seriously worries me. 329 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 1: Guillotine fetishism. Now I get it. I've spent hundreds of 330 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:26,919 Speaker 1: collective hours of my life reading about the unspeakable crimes 331 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:30,640 Speaker 1: of various billionaires, most recently the Sackler family. I understand 332 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: wanting to give some of these people an exceptionally short haircut. 333 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:35,399 Speaker 1: And I get that a lot of you are probably 334 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:37,919 Speaker 1: rolling your eyes and maybe even getting ready to switch podcasts, 335 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: because clearly Twitter posts like this one from we Dress 336 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:44,119 Speaker 1: Elba are just jokes. If your boss ever tells you 337 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:47,120 Speaker 1: you don't need a union, it's because you need a guillotine. 338 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: Prominent leftist magazine Jacobin recently started selling a faux i 339 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 1: kea guillotine poster. The tweet announcing it said so much 340 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: for the tolerant left. I could find another dozen examples 341 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 1: if I really wanted to keep harping on us all day, 342 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 1: and all these examples could be easily defended as harmless comedy. Now. 343 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 1: I'm not going to compare this to say the ironic 344 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 1: comments about genocide and Nazism that are so often a 345 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: catalyst for fascist right wing radicalization. But given how prevalent 346 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: guillotine talk has become on the left, I think it 347 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: behooves us to talk for a minute about the French Revolution. Now, 348 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 1: you could absolutely argue that a lot of those guillotined 349 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 1: Knobby Fox had it coming, as they had spent their 350 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 1: lives deploying oppressive violence far in excess of what was 351 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 1: eventually returned to them. As a general rule, I support 352 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,399 Speaker 1: despotic leaders, be they kings or dictators losing their heads. 353 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 1: But tens of thousands of people were killed in the 354 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:39,439 Speaker 1: violence that flowed from the French Revolution, and most of 355 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 1: them did not have it coming. It turns out that 356 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:45,200 Speaker 1: Once a collective of angry people starts murdering, it's fucking 357 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: hard to get them to stop. Where I worry about 358 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 1: this specifically is when it comes to what happens and 359 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:54,920 Speaker 1: the chunks of urban and suburban areas occupied by leftist separatists. 360 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: In place where the government retreats without too much violence, 361 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 1: things will likely remain pleasant for the reasons we discussed 362 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: in the last episode. Most people tend to want things 363 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:07,159 Speaker 1: to stay reasonable. However, in the areas where the fighting 364 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: is more vicious, the trunks of cities that wind up 365 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:12,880 Speaker 1: under long term sieges separatists are likely to become correspondingly 366 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,199 Speaker 1: more brutal on the areas they control. This leads me 367 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 1: to something called the brutalization effect. It's mostly been documented 368 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 1: in the context of the death penalty, but quite a 369 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,719 Speaker 1: lot of the data gathered suggests that highly publicized executions 370 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:27,920 Speaker 1: lead to more violence. I'd like to quote from a 371 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: University of Maryland study. It was found that the incidents 372 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 1: of Thursday Friday homicides was greater than expected for those 373 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:37,879 Speaker 1: weeks with executions, and the incidents of Saturday Sunday homicides 374 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 1: was less than expected for those weeks with executions. From 375 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 1: this pattern, it was concluded that the deterrent effect of 376 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 1: an execution, or more precisely, the publicity surrounding an execution, 377 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 1: was canceled by its earlier brutalizing effect. Now it's hard 378 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: to say how much of the brutalization effect is due 379 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: to the death penalty and how much of it is 380 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 1: due to the publicity surrounding executions, but still this suggests 381 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: that the early stages of the Second Americans have a war. 382 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 1: The deaths and violence that would cause would make people, 383 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:08,120 Speaker 1: even traditionally peaceful liberala leftist people more comfortable with deadly violence, 384 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,119 Speaker 1: and in the face of daily mortar fire, sniper attacks, 385 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: and bombings, these rebels are likely to lead mass purges 386 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 1: of the people who they feel represent their suffering. In 387 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 1: most cases, I imagine it would be wealthy families, law 388 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 1: enforcement officers and the families of law enforcement officers, as 389 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 1: well as political activists on the other side of the 390 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 1: political spectrum. This violence would also become heavily publicized elsewhere 391 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 1: in the nation and regions still controlled by the regime, 392 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:34,440 Speaker 1: Regions where most people are on the opposite side of 393 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: the ideological spectrum and the violence they see being done 394 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 1: to their fellow travelers will make them more comfortable with 395 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 1: the government dishing out mass violence to separatists. They are 396 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,399 Speaker 1: already signs right now that political leaders on the right 397 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:48,959 Speaker 1: are pushing the idea that leftists and liberals are not 398 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: really Americans. On the day I wrote most of this episode, 399 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: in mid April, I came upon an email by the 400 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 1: Trump campaign to his donors and supporters. I would like 401 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 1: to read an excerpt. In two thousand sixteen, I was 402 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:02,640 Speaker 1: simply your voice, but you were the one that took 403 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:04,920 Speaker 1: our country back and made the liberal swamp and political 404 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 1: insiders furious. Now headed into we have to remind them 405 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:12,879 Speaker 1: that this is your country, not theirs, and then it 406 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:14,920 Speaker 1: turns into a plug for donations. It would be easy 407 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:16,879 Speaker 1: to write this off as just meaningless bullshit from a 408 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 1: campaign used to tossing out hurtful words like used tissues 409 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: under a high school boy's bed. But I found this 410 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: wording deeply disturbing. This is your country, not theirs is 411 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 1: the kind of language that could be used to, for example, 412 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 1: justify the carpet bombing of a city occupied by leftist separatists. 413 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: After all, if they are an Americans, not really then 414 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 1: why shouldn't the government treat them like it treated Iraqi 415 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 1: and Syrian civilians in the cities that defied us, we 416 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 1: don't fight. The leveling of Recaw is not something that 417 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: received a great deal of airtime in US media. The 418 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:57,679 Speaker 1: Battle of Mosele, for whatever reason, dominated the public consciousness 419 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,440 Speaker 1: much longer than the battle for isis is capital. Excessive 420 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 1: force was used on both cities, but in my opinion, 421 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 1: at least what was done in Mosel was more justified 422 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 1: or at least defensible than the destruction of Recaw. For 423 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,119 Speaker 1: some background, during the two thousand sixteen campaign, one issued 424 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,440 Speaker 1: Donald Trump ran on was to bomb the ship out 425 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: of Isis. After he was sworn in, President Trump handed 426 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,439 Speaker 1: decision making power for air strikes to military commanders on 427 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 1: the ground, essentially removing much of the civilian oversight from 428 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: that process. Correspondingly, civilian casualties leapt upward. In May two seventeen, 429 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 1: Defense Secretary Maddis told CBS News that the campaign against 430 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:35,639 Speaker 1: Isis had shifted from attrition tactics to annihilation tactics. I 431 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,199 Speaker 1: think the reality of those annihilation tactics gives us an 432 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 1: idea of how an air war against leftist separatists in 433 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,880 Speaker 1: a US city might look now, I'm imagining it conducted 434 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 1: against leftists. But in our last episode we also brought 435 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 1: up the possibility of Christian dominionist groups organizing and effectively 436 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,879 Speaker 1: ruling over large suburban chunks of the country in the 437 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: wake of a US government pull out from certain areas. 438 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:58,680 Speaker 1: It's certainly also possible to imagine a liberal dominated US 439 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,160 Speaker 1: government eventually deploying the kind of force against a group 440 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 1: of Christian extremists occupying urban and suburban areas against essentially 441 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 1: an American version of ISIS. In both cases, I can 442 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 1: imagine annihilation tactics being justified by the people with power 443 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 1: over the bombers in artillery. So let's talk about what 444 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 1: those annihilation tactics look like. Racaw was hit by an 445 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: overwhelming mix of air strikes and artillery barrages. Of the 446 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 1: air strikes were carried out by the United States, of 447 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 1: the artillery barrages involved American artillery. In four months, we 448 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 1: dropped a shot around twenty one thousand munitions into a 449 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 1: city that had hosted around two hundred and twenty thousand 450 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,960 Speaker 1: people before the bombardment. That's roughly the same size as Baton, 451 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:42,639 Speaker 1: Rouge des Moines or Spokene, Washington. More than of Racall 452 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 1: was leveled by this bombardment. The city was turned into 453 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 1: a smoking war and of rubble. The exact death toll 454 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 1: would never be known, just as it would be deliberately 455 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,120 Speaker 1: obscured in the event of an air war against the U. S. City. Now, 456 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:54,880 Speaker 1: the best I can do to make this feel real 457 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: is to bring you the stories of real Serians who 458 00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,879 Speaker 1: survived the bombardment. Mohanted Tadfi A age forty four, was 459 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: one such survivor. He buried his mother, brother, sister in law, 460 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: and seven nieces and nephews. He later told in PR 461 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:10,679 Speaker 1: ten people a plane came and hit the house in 462 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 1: the building of five floors fell on their heads. When 463 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,440 Speaker 1: the Syrian Democratic forces arrived on foot in his part 464 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 1: of the neighborhood, he and his brother were forced out 465 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 1: of the area. Told it was too dangerous for civilians, 466 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 1: Mohanned begged the soldiers, please, there are children under the rebel. 467 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 1: My brother's children, young kids, maybe even just one of 468 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 1: them is still alive. But those soldiers had a job 469 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 1: and they could not risk leaving civilians behind. To act 470 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: as possible insurgeons. The soldiers who refused to let him 471 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,399 Speaker 1: search for his buried loved ones were not monsters. There 472 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 1: were people doing a nightmarish job and nightmarish circumstances, and 473 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 1: what we in peacetime consider simple humanity is often an 474 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:48,159 Speaker 1: unacceptable risk under the rigors of war. Colonel Ryan, the 475 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: spokesperson for the Combined Joint Task Force responsible for leveling RACAW, 476 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 1: justified its actions by saying the coalition was quote fighting 477 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: a ruthless enemy that was systematically killing innocent civilians, and unfortunately, 478 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 1: some were unintentionally killed trying to liberate them, something we 479 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,120 Speaker 1: tried to avoid. I'm sure the U. S forces quote 480 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: unquote liberating separatist urban areas would try to avoid unintentionally 481 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,120 Speaker 1: killing civilians in the act of liberating them. I'm equally 482 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 1: sure the end result will be a lot of men 483 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: and women like Mohanned Tadfi, forced to return to their 484 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 1: shattered homes months later to dig the corpses of their 485 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:23,160 Speaker 1: loved ones out of the rubble with shovels. Of course, 486 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 1: given some of the things some voices on the far 487 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,439 Speaker 1: right have suggested, Mohanned's American counterpart might be lucky to 488 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,440 Speaker 1: survive the Battle of Spokane, assuming the city was occupied 489 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 1: by leftist separatists. Republican Matt Shay is an elected representative 490 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 1: in the state of Washington. Representative Shay is the Minority 491 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: Caucus chair in the State House of Representatives. In two 492 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 1: thousand and eighteen, he wrote and distributed a document that 493 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,400 Speaker 1: outlined what he called a biblical basis for war. I'd 494 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,120 Speaker 1: like to read an excerpt of that title. Rules of War. 495 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 1: Conduct a census of all able bodied males eighteen to 496 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 1: forty five. Identify exemptions. Appoint captains of tens, fifties, hundreds, 497 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 1: and thousands. Avoid bloodshed if possible. Make an offer of 498 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 1: peace before declaring war, not a negotiation or compromise of righteousness. 499 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,440 Speaker 1: Must surrender on terms of justice and righteousness. Number one. 500 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:13,440 Speaker 1: Stop all abortions, Number two, no same sex marriage, Number three, 501 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:17,639 Speaker 1: no idolatry or occultism. Number four no communism, and number five. 502 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,200 Speaker 1: Must obey biblical law if they yield. Must pay share 503 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 1: of worker taxes if they do not yield. Kill all males. Now. 504 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 1: After this document came out, Representative Shay insisted he was 505 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:31,879 Speaker 1: just summarizing rules he found in the Bible for how 506 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 1: to conduct war and that he wasn't distributing some guide 507 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 1: for how a dominionist militia should purge decadent liberal cities 508 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 1: of all resistance. The same day I wrote this article, 509 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 1: Jason Wilson, writing for The Guardian, published another article about 510 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 1: Matt Shay. This article was based on a number of 511 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: private chats between Shay and several members of his militia 512 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: back in two thousand seventeen when they believed an Antifa 513 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:55,120 Speaker 1: revolution was scheduled to occur. Quote all of the men 514 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 1: used screen aliases. Schayes was veram bellatour Latin for true Warrior. 515 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,199 Speaker 1: The Guardian con arm the identity of those in the 516 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 1: chat by cross checking phone numbers attached to the signal accounts. 517 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,280 Speaker 1: The group included Jack Robertson, who broadcasts the far right 518 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,960 Speaker 1: radio show Radio Free Redoubt under the alias John Jacob Schmidt. 519 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,439 Speaker 1: The chat also included Anthony Bosworth, whose history includes a 520 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 1: public altercation with his own daughter and bringing guns to 521 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 1: a court house. Bosworth participated in the two thousand and 522 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:23,240 Speaker 1: sixteen occupation of the Malher National Wildlife Refuge, reportedly at 523 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:27,159 Speaker 1: Shay's request. I quoted all that because it's important for 524 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 1: you to understand that Shay is not some lone, isolated nut. 525 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: He is connected to a sizeable, organized ecosystem of Christo 526 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 1: fascist extremists who are champing at the bit for a 527 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:42,359 Speaker 1: chance to purge decadent leftist cities like Spokane. Shay's connections 528 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 1: extend beyond just Washington. His involvement with the Malhir occupation 529 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 1: as proof of that. During the leaked conversations, Shay and 530 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 1: his inner circle discussed how they planned to deal with 531 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:55,879 Speaker 1: any anti fascist activists they captured. Jack Robinson noted his 532 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:59,639 Speaker 1: desire to face slam them into a Jersey barrier quote, 533 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,399 Speaker 1: treat him like communist revolutionaries, then shave her bald with 534 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 1: a k bar usmc field knife. He noted that the 535 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 1: nipple rings on the activists would quote make good attachment 536 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: points for hoisting communists up flagpoles. A few days after 537 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 1: this article dropped, Jason Wilson published another piece based on 538 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,400 Speaker 1: leaked audio from a Godden Country rally held in two 539 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:23,760 Speaker 1: thousand eighteen. Representative Shay and Jack Robertson both spoke there. 540 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 1: Here's part of what Robertson said. Of course, guys, although 541 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,920 Speaker 1: fifteen and a thousand runs animal rived as anti falls, 542 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,399 Speaker 1: kicking up and getting ready to defend. Right, defend, why 543 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 1: defend for when the bad guy comes? Right, how many 544 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: of you have told your trigger on your air are 545 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: fifteen and the fight that we're in yet not one? 546 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 1: But there's a fight right now. The war is here 547 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 1: the bad guy. Representative Shay has been ostracized from mainstream 548 00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:00,160 Speaker 1: Republican circle since his document on Biblical war leaked out. 549 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 1: Robertson could accurately be described as a fringe right wing figure. However, 550 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 1: both men speak for thousands of heavily armed, deeply paranoid Americans. 551 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 1: In the event of a civil war that seriously drained 552 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 1: the manpower reserves of the United States military, it's possible 553 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 1: that the state would turn to ideologically aligned militia's to 554 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 1: help it retake separatist strongholds. We have seen this exact 555 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 1: same pattern play out in Syria, with militias loyal to 556 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 1: Bashar al Assad and in a rack with Sheia militia's 557 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 1: prosecuting a brutal war against the Sunni extremists who aligned 558 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,840 Speaker 1: with ISIS, And if it were to happen here, as 559 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 1: it has happened in many other parts of the globe, 560 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: we can expect to see the extremists, and these militias 561 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 1: used the opportunity to execute vengeance against their ideological enemies. 562 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 1: Representative Shay is proof that the ingredients are already here 563 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 1: and as cities under siege. Noted back in two thousand ten, 564 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,840 Speaker 1: the idea of Christian extremists cheering on the violent destruction 565 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 1: of leftist enclaves is not exactly beyond the pale quote. 566 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,960 Speaker 1: Some Christian fundamentalist preachers have even suggested that both the 567 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 1: nine eleven attacks and Hurricane Katrina were are actually part 568 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 1: of God's wrath against the sins of urban life, especially homosexuality. 569 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: Although loss of lives is deeply saddening, this act of 570 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 1: God destroyed a wicked city. Repent America director Michael Markovitch 571 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 1: suggested in the two thousand five press release from Girls 572 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,760 Speaker 1: Gone Wild the Southern decadence, New Orleans was a city 573 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: that had its doors wide open to the public celebration 574 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: of sin. From the devastation, may a city full of 575 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 1: righteousness emerge now? In this episode, we have focused primarily 576 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 1: on mass murder of the political variety. The elephant in 577 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,480 Speaker 1: the room. The thing left unset so far is the 578 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 1: possibility of mass violence against a racial or religious minority 579 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 1: in the wake of a tremendous calamity on our next 580 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 1: week's episode will delve into that topic and discuss what 581 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 1: might happen when annihilation tactics turn from pacification to genocide. 582 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 1: I'll be watching one of the concrete cracking the first 583 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,800 Speaker 1: back talking when the cable snap one of the tables 584 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 1: of the Lords of Trouble. In this guys trust clous 585 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: on us far they flide with sauce. It's on a 586 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 1: game blust across the heart beat is going. Don't start 587 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 1: with me. It's a nightly Wait. Wait, I test one more. Wait, 588 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: wait when I do kill and tell? When we get 589 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 1: the rule of script of course, get things. Get a 590 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 1: sip from the fluster, accept the ship's sake. I know 591 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 1: it's hard. Eye turner from the top down. Purler. Yeah, 592 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 1: let's screen. It's like we're supposed to start ru on 593 00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 1: my back in my coup, and you can crawl around 594 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 1: the camp like a creep. So we ghost. Night night, 595 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 1: good night, night, night night. But I'm Robert Evans and 596 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 1: I'm just exhausted from reading all of that. You can 597 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 1: find me on Twitter at I right, okay. You can 598 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 1: find this show on Twitter at happen here pod, and 599 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,720 Speaker 1: you can find a show online at it could happen 600 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 1: here pod dot com. Our music, as always, is from 601 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:06,280 Speaker 1: four Fists