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Speaker 1: thanks Thinking Sideways. I don't understand you never know stories
Speaker 1: of things. We simply don't know the answer too. Hi there,
Speaker 1: welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I'm Joe, joined
Speaker 1: as always by Devin and Steve. Yeah, and this week
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about another cool maritime mystery because you guys,
Speaker 1: you guys know how fond I have a maritime mysteries
Speaker 1: Joe's favorite nautical Yeah. Uh so this is a really
Speaker 1: kind of strange one. Just brief overview. It's about the
Speaker 1: Carol A Deering And if you, if you do do
Speaker 1: any webs searches on this, you'll find several really good
Speaker 1: pictures of the deering. It was this beautiful five masted
Speaker 1: schooner that was built in nineteen nineteen. It's a schooner schooner. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and uh it was a freighter two big one long,
Speaker 1: forty six ft a beam um. But the deering was
Speaker 1: in service for less than two years when one morning
Speaker 1: it was found run aground on Diamond Shoals off the
Speaker 1: coast of North Carolina. The strange thing about it is
Speaker 1: that when the coast Guard finally got managed aboard the
Speaker 1: boat four days later, because there was offseas um, the
Speaker 1: crew was gone, completely gone. Well, there was one member
Speaker 1: there was. There was there was a cat, Chip's cat, Mr. Snuggles.
Speaker 1: That's a good name for him though, So we'll go
Speaker 1: with that one then. Uh and all, by the way,
Speaker 1: I just wanted to say, we'll give a little shout
Speaker 1: out to Justin who suggested this story. Anyway, So Diamond
Speaker 1: Shoals is has the reputation of not being very ship friendly.
Speaker 1: They called that area the Graveyard of the Atlantic. It
Speaker 1: really is just one giant bar north to south on
Speaker 1: that edge of North Carolina, and you can just see
Speaker 1: how it just must chew things up constantly. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of ships have been chewed
Speaker 1: up and spat out. Let's talk a little bit about
Speaker 1: the ship. As I said, it's built in nineteen nineteen
Speaker 1: by the G. G. Deering Company of Bath, Maine. So
Speaker 1: apparently these guys not only did ship building but they
Speaker 1: also ran the ships as a business. You know that
Speaker 1: the Deering was a cargo freighter. They were designed build,
Speaker 1: got it and yeah yeah uh And apparently that was
Speaker 1: the last ship that was built by the Deering Company
Speaker 1: because I said feet long, forty six ft a beam
Speaker 1: um and had three decks um except of course in
Speaker 1: the cargo hold area the antenna. The interior apparently was
Speaker 1: here really nice, finished with oak, mahogany, empress wood, ashwood. Uh,
Speaker 1: deckpline was hard pine. They pulled out all the stops
Speaker 1: on this thing, which is weird for a cargo ship. Well,
Speaker 1: it kind of is. Yeah, and uh the masts were
Speaker 1: made from trees chopped down right here in Oregon. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that's cool. That was our contribution to this this
Speaker 1: mystery Oregon and then shipped all the way over to Maine. Okay,
Speaker 1: maybe they don't have tall trees over there, um, not anymore,
Speaker 1: they don't. Yeah. The heads that bathrooms to non nautical
Speaker 1: types were fully plumbed and had hot and cold running water,
Speaker 1: which is pretty like serious because on a lot of
Speaker 1: old sailing ships basically the head was a plank with
Speaker 1: a hole cut in it up at the half of
Speaker 1: the battle ship yeah. Yeah, either have it or you
Speaker 1: want to set on that and you did your business,
Speaker 1: you know, and then it's just just dropped into the sea.
Speaker 1: And I hope there's no like big splashes or anything. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: rough original Yeah, yeah, actually that could be kind of
Speaker 1: nice maybe. Yeah. What else they had? The low deck
Speaker 1: spaces were lit by electricity and heated by team. So
Speaker 1: this was a pretty nice ship. It sounds nicer than
Speaker 1: the cruise ship I was on the care areas. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is nicer than that. Yeah, you had hot and cold,
Speaker 1: bunning water. We did, but you know, corrugated metal interiors
Speaker 1: and it wasn't a whole of the crown. So the
Speaker 1: create areas and these ships, I assume there are not
Speaker 1: nearly as nice as the guest areas. Accurate. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: makes sense, it does. I'm not surprised. Yeah, it's about
Speaker 1: maximizing space, not luxury. Why the way back to the
Speaker 1: Daring the Carol a deering um by the way, it
Speaker 1: was named after during son right, Yeah it was so
Speaker 1: I was just thinking about how, like, I bet you
Speaker 1: would run out of people to name ships after. Don't
Speaker 1: you think have you ever seen the names of ships?
Speaker 1: Like it is obvious that they ran out of names
Speaker 1: a long time ago. Yeah, So if I ever get
Speaker 1: like a boat or anything like that, I'm going to
Speaker 1: name it the Enterprise Original. Yeah, the original n CC one. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: anyway back to the next to the Caroline, the name
Speaker 1: of mine would be in a bottle, in a bottle,
Speaker 1: ship in a bottle, or maybe happens ship happens. Yeah, okay, anyway,
Speaker 1: such a nice ship. I really would not personally leave
Speaker 1: it to climb into a lifeboat, but that appears to
Speaker 1: be probably what happened here, because, as I said, the
Speaker 1: lifeboats were gone when they found the ship, and the
Speaker 1: crew was gone to except for the cat. Except for
Speaker 1: the cat. Yeah, Mr Snuggles. Yes, So let's go back
Speaker 1: to the beginning. In late August nine, the Caroldering set
Speaker 1: sail from Norfolk, Virginia, and I had for Real Degennio
Speaker 1: with the cargo of coal. The captain was William M. Merritt,
Speaker 1: and his son S. E. Merritt was first mate. With
Speaker 1: about two minutes into the voyage, Captain Merritt suddenly became
Speaker 1: very ill, and not two minutes. It was a little
Speaker 1: more than two minutes into the voyage, but it was
Speaker 1: pretty quick it was pretty quick, like days or within
Speaker 1: a few days, I guess like that, because like far
Speaker 1: from Norfolk when they when they put in the shore,
Speaker 1: and and what was weird is they left Norfolk and
Speaker 1: they sailed south and that apparently turned up and went
Speaker 1: up to the Delaware coast and put in a town
Speaker 1: in Delaware. I don't know if that's called is pronounced
Speaker 1: Lose or Lewis, Delaware, but uh, and and so Captain
Speaker 1: Merritt left the ship along with his son, and they
Speaker 1: had to get a replacement. So the Deering Company had
Speaker 1: hired a guy named Willis Wormel. Yeah, it was warm,
Speaker 1: so he was in the captain apparently, I'm not sure
Speaker 1: I've heard it. Wormel hired a sailor named Charles McClellan
Speaker 1: to be his first mate. Although I heard in one
Speaker 1: another place that the Deering Company hired the guy. I
Speaker 1: don't know. Yeah, I think it might have been the
Speaker 1: company that actually hired. I would imagine that if it's
Speaker 1: not his boat, he doesn't get a say it did
Speaker 1: make the final decision. Yeah, so I'm thinking probably the
Speaker 1: Deering Company. Most places say that he did. But you know,
Speaker 1: but anyway, it doesn't really matter that much. There were
Speaker 1: nine other members of the crew, mostly Scandinavians and a
Speaker 1: lot of places it says they were all Scandinadians and
Speaker 1: that's not true. Yeah, but they were. They were like
Speaker 1: seven and then there was an American and a guy
Speaker 1: from the the French West Indian thank you, Yeah, and
Speaker 1: that was and then the first mate in the captain yeah,
Speaker 1: and were Americans also, and then and the rest were
Speaker 1: Dane except for one who was a fin Yeah. The
Speaker 1: daring got under way again on September six d right
Speaker 1: in Rio in late November. So it's like, if you
Speaker 1: really want your cargo to be there in a hurry,
Speaker 1: I probably don't want to set up by sale. Well,
Speaker 1: I was just thinking how funny it is that, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, these days like ships will you know, get
Speaker 1: out of New York and seven days later they're back
Speaker 1: in New York and they've gone all the way down
Speaker 1: to Rio de Janeiro and further right in seven days.
Speaker 1: It's it's crazy to think about how far we've come nautically.
Speaker 1: And what's funny to me, I mean, I know Joe
Speaker 1: alluded to this a little bit earlier, is the fact
Speaker 1: that it's it's a sale driven ship in one when
Speaker 1: we're starting to be able to power everything with cole
Speaker 1: and propeller and and you know, fossil fuel burning ships
Speaker 1: go much faster. Well, yeah they do. Yeah. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: why eventually these sales of silf raiders kind of fell
Speaker 1: out of favor. Yeah. I wonder if that's maybe part
Speaker 1: of why they made it so nice inside, is that
Speaker 1: they thought, well, you know, if this whole cargo ship
Speaker 1: thing goes under, we can do you know, quick little
Speaker 1: refab and make it a cruise ship or make it
Speaker 1: a luxury sailboat or something passengers on board. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I wonder if that was the original idea, and then
Speaker 1: just kidding, no, it's you know, the original intention is,
Speaker 1: let's put this into a passenger situation, except that suddenly
Speaker 1: the money starts going short, Like okay, we we gotta punt.
Speaker 1: What do we do. Let's not finish the whole center
Speaker 1: of the ship. Let's just make it a hold. Even
Speaker 1: they think, well, you know, if we make this so
Speaker 1: that it's nice enough to get paying passengers, we can
Speaker 1: kind of kill two birds with one stone, where we
Speaker 1: transport cargo and people take a really long cruise at
Speaker 1: the same time. I don't know that. It's just kind
Speaker 1: of weird to me that they would do that, and
Speaker 1: that is that is true though, but you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: and even today you can you can hit the right
Speaker 1: on a freighter then it's a lot cheaper than they
Speaker 1: don't see a cruise ship. You can still and they
Speaker 1: have quarters for it. So maybe that was the intent,
Speaker 1: was to have paying passengers as well. Anyway, they had
Speaker 1: none on this one. Lucky for those passengers. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so it took him a month Sixtember six, It took
Speaker 1: them over two months to get to Rio. Uh. So
Speaker 1: the men all went on Liberty and then Captain Warmel
Speaker 1: ran into an old friend and Captain Goodwin had no
Speaker 1: first name alas, and they had a little chat and
Speaker 1: warm L told Goodwin he didn't really care for his
Speaker 1: crew all that much and said he also tard us.
Speaker 1: He thought his first mate McClellan was a worthless troublemaker,
Speaker 1: and Goodwood remembered this later. Well. He also said the
Speaker 1: only one he trusted or thought was a decent sailor
Speaker 1: was the engineer. Yeah, yeah, who was he? The other
Speaker 1: American that was on the ship. Yeah yeah, And so yeah,
Speaker 1: he liked him okay, yeah, yeah, the captain didn't sound
Speaker 1: like that awesome of a guy to himself at times,
Speaker 1: some of the thing things he said, and just like
Speaker 1: maybe he was the happiest old man because he was
Speaker 1: an old man and it was like sixty six. I
Speaker 1: would I'm not I'm not sure this old man, but
Speaker 1: that's getting up there, especially for nine in nineteen nineteen.
Speaker 1: He is an old man by by modern accounts. And
Speaker 1: there's a dude who's close to over in this very room.
Speaker 1: I don't want to harm you. I'm not that close,
Speaker 1: but no, I mean for the day and age, for
Speaker 1: sure he was. He was definitely up there, particularly to
Speaker 1: be working on a show, working, and he may not
Speaker 1: have wanted to be working, he may have had to
Speaker 1: be working probably. Yeah. Yeah, I think in those days
Speaker 1: the life expectancy was was I mean, what is it today,
Speaker 1: like seventy two or seventy five or something like that
Speaker 1: for higher than that, Yeah, but back in the day
Speaker 1: it was. Back in those days, it was far far
Speaker 1: lower than sixty six fifties, I think, yeah, okay, where
Speaker 1: were we? Uh? The Deering set sail for her return
Speaker 1: trip on December two, and in early January they put
Speaker 1: into Barbados for supplies and a little shore leave. So
Speaker 1: whenever anybody says they put into Barbados for supplies, I
Speaker 1: think like air quotes supplies my hangover. Yeah, well, you
Speaker 1: can't be love it, but actually, yeah, surely, I mean yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, after all, these guys have been on the
Speaker 1: been not stuck in the ship for a long time,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, they need to get a little
Speaker 1: little rest and recreation, right. I've heard two versions of
Speaker 1: what happened in Barbados, and one version McClelland got arrested
Speaker 1: for public drunkenness and was shown in jail, and then
Speaker 1: Wormele bailed him out of jail um. But then for
Speaker 1: some unknown reason, they had an argument and McClelland threatened
Speaker 1: war Mel's life. That's one version. Another version, and this
Speaker 1: is the one of the Wikipedia page, McClelland got drunk
Speaker 1: and was complaining to the captain of another American ship
Speaker 1: about Warmel. And then later that same captain, along with
Speaker 1: his first mate and yet another ship's captain heard overheard
Speaker 1: McClelland saying that he was going to quote get unquote
Speaker 1: Wormel before they got back to Norfolk being shipped captains.
Speaker 1: Of course, they didn't really take kindly to that kind
Speaker 1: of talk. That's not a good thing to have rolling around. No,
Speaker 1: not really, And so apparently they got him arrested. And
Speaker 1: then on January nine, Wormele bailed McClellan out of jail
Speaker 1: and then he rejoined the crew of the Jeering and
Speaker 1: they set sail for home. In retrospect, Wormele probably should
Speaker 1: have let just let him stay in rotten jail and
Speaker 1: just gone without a first mate. I mean, he's a
Speaker 1: first made anyway, right, No one exactly. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: have on it. I'm doing just fine. Wow. Nice. Twenty
Speaker 1: days later, on January nine, the Carol A Deering sailed
Speaker 1: past the Diamond Shoals lightship and they hailed it. The
Speaker 1: lightship keeper was a man named Captain Thomas Jacobson, and
Speaker 1: he reported that a thin, red haired guy with a
Speaker 1: foreign accent and yelled across to him that they had
Speaker 1: lost their anchors and chains while writing a storm south
Speaker 1: at Cape fear Off what they call frying pan Shoal.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, uh for those, not me because I know,
Speaker 1: but other people who might not know. What's a light ship? Lightship?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, okay, lightship? That's a good point. Well, it's
Speaker 1: like it's like a mobile lighthouse. They actually at Diamond Shoals,
Speaker 1: they actually at one point attempted to build a lighthouse
Speaker 1: and they had problems with it. They built an enormous
Speaker 1: case on on shore and then they hauled it out
Speaker 1: there and tried to set it on the on the seafloor,
Speaker 1: and they were gonna build their lighthouse on top of this,
Speaker 1: and well it immediately started settling and settling in a
Speaker 1: lot angle and there was just basically nothing they could
Speaker 1: do about it. So after expending you know, a bunch
Speaker 1: of money trying to do this and not succeeding, they
Speaker 1: just decided, screw it, we'll just have a lightship instead.
Speaker 1: It's just a ship. A ship. It's a ship that's
Speaker 1: got that's got a beacon on it, just like a lighthouse.
Speaker 1: And lightships were probably the one of the most boring,
Speaker 1: horrible things to work on because a normal ship, you've
Speaker 1: got stuff to do, you're moving about. On a lightship,
Speaker 1: you drop an anchor if you can. Otherwise you spend
Speaker 1: all your time trying to stay in one location and oh,
Speaker 1: by the way, keep the light going. Because they were
Speaker 1: doing this before electricity, so it was like a lantern
Speaker 1: and some guy had to go up there every hour
Speaker 1: because it ran out of fuel, and like it was
Speaker 1: that had to be a terrible job to be the
Speaker 1: light ship keeper. Yeah, I don't think it was considered
Speaker 1: to be a promotion. So it's just a ship that's
Speaker 1: got a lighthouse on it, basically a mobile, separate mass
Speaker 1: mobile mobile lighthouse. All right, just a clarify. Sorry, Well
Speaker 1: that's good. Now, that's good. Thing you said something and
Speaker 1: hadn't thought about that. I know what a lightship is,
Speaker 1: so I'm just like I thought everybody knew, but we
Speaker 1: all share a brain. Yeah. Anyway, the guy that haired
Speaker 1: red haired guy on the deering who was on the
Speaker 1: quarter deck of the deering that tells him about losing
Speaker 1: the anchors in the chains and asked him to use
Speaker 1: his radio to get a message to the deering company
Speaker 1: about it, because apparently had that. I guess the idea
Speaker 1: would be the then the deering company could make a
Speaker 1: arrangement that Norfolk for them to be greeted by tugs
Speaker 1: or something like that, because they couldn't just sail in
Speaker 1: and drop anchor. All I could do is sail in
Speaker 1: and sort of like sit there drifting around until they
Speaker 1: pumped into something. So sorry that the Carol Deering didn't
Speaker 1: have a radio on it. Well, that's the thing. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean maybe the radio. Yeah, you would
Speaker 1: think that they would have had a radio, but apparently not,
Speaker 1: or maybe it was out, maybe it was not functioning.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Well, then that's the same problem with
Speaker 1: the lightship, is that he couldn't call it in because
Speaker 1: his radio was on the fritz. So is the alien interference?
Speaker 1: This is Bermuda Triangle you know? Yeah, yeah, the far
Speaker 1: north tip of the Bermuda Triangle. Jacobson, who's he's He's
Speaker 1: the guy that captained the lightship. I thought it was
Speaker 1: a little odd that a crew member rather than the
Speaker 1: captain in the first mate was was he telling him this?
Speaker 1: Of course, he testified later there was an investigation in
Speaker 1: this whole thing, big, yeah, huge investigation. Uh. Jacobson also
Speaker 1: thought it was odd that the entire crew seem to
Speaker 1: be just hanging out on the quarter deck of the ship.
Speaker 1: But anyway, other than that, you know, what else can
Speaker 1: we make of it? Yeah? What are you gonna do?
Speaker 1: He made a note in his log about it. The
Speaker 1: deering continued sailing northward. And by the way, the thin
Speaker 1: red hair guy, it's the description of Johan Frederickson, who
Speaker 1: was the only member of the crew that had red hair. Um.
Speaker 1: He was a ship's posen, which is short for boatswain
Speaker 1: and which is kind of somebody's second in command. He's
Speaker 1: below first mate but above the regular crew members kind
Speaker 1: of thing. Yeah, so that that probably was Johan Frederickson.
Speaker 1: As to why it was him and not the captain, well,
Speaker 1: who knows. Well, I was just gonna ask what it
Speaker 1: be reasonable for if like there was other I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, you're in disaster, right, you don't have anchor.
Speaker 1: You're trying to maneuver your ship into like a certain area.
Speaker 1: It's kind of a dangerous area anyway. Also, you know,
Speaker 1: like maybe you say, right, it's me and my first mate,
Speaker 1: we're going to be here. You go stand down there
Speaker 1: and yell if you see someone and tell what's going on. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it might have been that. Maybe they maybe they told
Speaker 1: him to do it because he had the loudest voice. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he would stand out the most with the red hair. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know. But the weird part about that though,
Speaker 1: is that they were obviously able to sail up next
Speaker 1: too close to the lightship, so they obviously were not
Speaker 1: of control in some disaster scenario. It's not as if
Speaker 1: the ship was sinking out from underneath them and go
Speaker 1: scream for help, because all he yelled was we don't
Speaker 1: have an anchor. That's true, but I mean it is dangerous, right,
Speaker 1: I mean that's it's a light ship, right, so it's marketing. Hey,
Speaker 1: maybe don't come here, right, And you want whoever is
Speaker 1: the absolute best at steering that ship to do the
Speaker 1: steering to get it close enough to yell, but far
Speaker 1: enough away to not run into it or run aground. Yeah.
Speaker 1: That's the thing, is that to maintain control of the ship,
Speaker 1: you have to you have to keep it under sail, right. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And so that person was likely not the captain because
Speaker 1: the captain apparently had some vision. Apparently he was had
Speaker 1: bad eyesight. Yeah, okay, Well then you don't want the
Speaker 1: captain yelling because he's not going to be able to see. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe the captain had a creaky old voice, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe they had to have somebody else out there yelling,
Speaker 1: you know. So then you've got your first mate doing
Speaker 1: all of the the actual steering. You've got your boat
Speaker 1: swaying out there, yelling, you've got the captain trying to
Speaker 1: keep everything under sail or you know whichever. Maybe the captains,
Speaker 1: like you said, taking taking an apron. Maybe he's dead,
Speaker 1: don't don't. Uh So two days after, on January thirty one,
Speaker 1: Carol During was spotted hard aground on a sandbar on
Speaker 1: Diamond Shoals near Cape Hatteras, North Carolina. You can find
Speaker 1: that if you get on the Google. Yeah, it's pretty interesting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's kind of cool. Yeah, I'd like to go see it.
Speaker 1: Maybe one of these days will do a field trip. Yes,
Speaker 1: but yeah, now we're gonna fly. All the sales were set,
Speaker 1: meaning the sales were still up, and so that could
Speaker 1: not have been easy on the boat. The weather was
Speaker 1: kind of rough, and so that's gotta be really hard
Speaker 1: on your boat if it's harder ground and and the
Speaker 1: wind is just it goes in full board and then
Speaker 1: the wind keeps shoving it into its n There was
Speaker 1: one ship I can't remember the name of it now.
Speaker 1: It's an interesting story. It ran aground just like this,
Speaker 1: and uh, it was on this big sandbar, a big,
Speaker 1: huge white sandbar, and for whatever reason. Tides and and
Speaker 1: and waves and wind and everything. They actually stripped all
Speaker 1: the hardware off of it and everything and salvage whatever
Speaker 1: they could, and they just left it there. And I
Speaker 1: don't remember how long it took. It took like about
Speaker 1: a year, but it actually slowly moved through the sand
Speaker 1: and wound up in this bay again. I gotta, I
Speaker 1: gotta try to find that story again. It was yeah, uh, anyway,
Speaker 1: not so not so easy for the old deering now.
Speaker 1: They never did manage to get it dislodge. More about
Speaker 1: that in a second. All the sales were still set.
Speaker 1: As I said, the lifeboats were gone, and red lights
Speaker 1: have been run up to the tops of the masts,
Speaker 1: which apparently is a signal that this ship was either
Speaker 1: derelict or out of control. And red lights, I don't
Speaker 1: know if they were electric. They did have electricity on
Speaker 1: the bad electric lanterns, they would have run out of
Speaker 1: fuel and no time at all, right, so they must
Speaker 1: have been electric. Um, but then the ship would have
Speaker 1: also still had electricity. Yeah right, Well, you know, and
Speaker 1: the ship's auxiliary was probably not running. I assume they
Speaker 1: had a battery, and so maybe it just ran off
Speaker 1: battery for a while until the battery ran flom. You
Speaker 1: set emergency stuff to go off the battery usually so. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So the coast Guard arrived at the scene because of
Speaker 1: heavy seas that couldn't go aboard. Then they couldn't actually
Speaker 1: board until February fourth, so five days after its found. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the cat must have been hungry. Sorry. One more point
Speaker 1: of clarification. The sales are set means they are up.
Speaker 1: They are they're up, they are in place, They're ready
Speaker 1: to push the boat around catching wind. Okay, listen, lots
Speaker 1: of body terms here. Yeah, talk boy talk. That reminds
Speaker 1: me of body boat faced happen. I love that name. Okay, anyway,
Speaker 1: back to ours thing here. The dairy was board at
Speaker 1: ten thirty am on February fourth. The ship was they
Speaker 1: reported in actually pretty good shape, but the crew, of
Speaker 1: course was gone. H and of course except for Mr
Speaker 1: Snuggles the cat. Yeah, we have probably well hopefully, there
Speaker 1: were a lot of mice on the daering and he
Speaker 1: was able to like, you know, entertain himself and feed
Speaker 1: himself and you know, eating mice. A. The crew had
Speaker 1: taken apparently all their personal effects with them, and uh,
Speaker 1: they also took the ship's navigation gear, ship's clock, ship's log,
Speaker 1: and there was but there was no evidence of any
Speaker 1: any sort of emergency. There was no evidence of violence
Speaker 1: or blood or anything. There were a few odd pieces
Speaker 1: of evidence that were found there though. Uh. In the
Speaker 1: captain's cabin they found three different sets of boots that
Speaker 1: were in different sizes, so apparently belonged to three different guys.
Speaker 1: So apparently some guys were hanging out in the captain's cabin.
Speaker 1: The captain's cabin also had a spare bunk in which
Speaker 1: had been slipt in, So this makes you wonders. It's
Speaker 1: field a lot of speculation, like the captain died, or
Speaker 1: was he killed, or was he somehow incapacitated, or was
Speaker 1: there a mutiny, was he being held or was he
Speaker 1: just you know, thrown overboard. But because the captain isn't
Speaker 1: typically of a ship known to just say, hey, go
Speaker 1: ahead and sleep in my bunk, not typically at all. No,
Speaker 1: it's it's my station, you see the hell out of it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: But if the captain is is you know, some one
Speaker 1: way or another out of the picture, then it would
Speaker 1: be tempting to go shack up at his cabin because
Speaker 1: it's obviously going to be the nicest place in the
Speaker 1: in the ship. But why wouldn't you just sleep in
Speaker 1: his bed? Why would he sleep in the auxiliary? Then
Speaker 1: I think somebody was sleeping in the captain's bunk and
Speaker 1: somebody else was sleeping in the other bunk. That's what
Speaker 1: I'm guessing. Another bit of evidence that something had happened
Speaker 1: to the captain is that the notes on the ship's
Speaker 1: position on the navigational chart had changed handwriting after January,
Speaker 1: So if something happened to the captain, it must have
Speaker 1: been about a week before, but it was a different handwriting.
Speaker 1: He was, yeah, something happening. Maybe he got maybe he died,
Speaker 1: they'd pay buried him at sea, or something more sinister
Speaker 1: than that. You don't know. But as for the Carol
Speaker 1: a deering Alas, and this truly as sad actually because
Speaker 1: she wasn't neat, she was a need old chip. But
Speaker 1: they tried to tow her out to see again, and
Speaker 1: they couldn't get her unstuck from the sandbar, and so
Speaker 1: they were They dine reminded her in March, early March,
Speaker 1: and there were still pieces over as I like, I
Speaker 1: don't know the nineteen there might still be pieces that
Speaker 1: were still out there. I was gonna say, I saw
Speaker 1: pictures from several years later of people in the sand
Speaker 1: bar next to the yeah, the wreckage, Yeah, at low tide.
Speaker 1: I suppose you could go out there and you know,
Speaker 1: and you know, check out the wreckage, maybe get yourself
Speaker 1: a souvenir or some building materials. I know that there
Speaker 1: was a shipwreck at the base of the Econi Mountain
Speaker 1: the nineteen thirteen. Yeah, yeah, excuse me, Yeah, And I
Speaker 1: know that a lot of stuff got salvages, like the
Speaker 1: ship's mass wound up in people's homes that they were
Speaker 1: like a column supporting porches and all kinds of cool
Speaker 1: stuff like that. All the locals go down and they
Speaker 1: get out, there's good. But there's good building with you
Speaker 1: was down there. Plus it's got a great story, right. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Normally a shipwreck off Cape Hatteras would not be a
Speaker 1: huge deal because, after all has already said that area
Speaker 1: is called the graveyard of the Atlantic. In fact, there's
Speaker 1: a there's a museum on Hatteras is called the Graveyard
Speaker 1: of the Atlantic Museum. So they fully acknowledged their graveyard
Speaker 1: in this. I see where you got your your phrasing. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: but because the crew disappeared, but so mysteriously, which is
Speaker 1: face is a little hanky, you think. There was a
Speaker 1: big investigation into the shipwreck. And another thing the sparked
Speaker 1: interest was that nine different other ships vanished without a
Speaker 1: trace in the same area within about a two week period,
Speaker 1: like late January, early paperwork. The ships without a trace. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so daring that the Daring did not vanish without a
Speaker 1: craze a trace, just her crew. The other ships vanished
Speaker 1: without a trace, not even not even a distress call. Yep,
Speaker 1: that's it. Well, as we know, radios were apparently going wonky. Apparently.
Speaker 1: I don't think radios were a hundred percent reliable back
Speaker 1: in those days. Um they were cheaply made. Yeah. The FBI,
Speaker 1: the U. S. Navy, the State Department, the Commerce Department,
Speaker 1: and the Treasury Department all launched investigations. Um, and I'm
Speaker 1: kind of assuming the Coast Guard did to the usual
Speaker 1: given that's kind of a given that they would do that.
Speaker 1: So that's a lot of a lot of government interest,
Speaker 1: And there were a lot of theories at the time
Speaker 1: because this was actually kind of a big deal back
Speaker 1: in back in Yeah, people got excited about this. One
Speaker 1: of the one of the most popular theories it was
Speaker 1: out there at the time was that it was a
Speaker 1: group of pirates. Yeah, yeah, okay, sorry, I should have
Speaker 1: delineated that. Okay, theories crazy fun sery time, seri time. Okay,
Speaker 1: like five different genres. Actually, we do need to come
Speaker 1: up with some sort of sound effect, don't you think? No, No, okay, fine,
Speaker 1: I'll just make my own sound effects. Now that we're
Speaker 1: in the theory machine, let's go. Okay, first in particular order. Uh, piracy,
Speaker 1: it was thought that a group of pirates was responsible
Speaker 1: for all this. That kind of makes sense. And also
Speaker 1: the crew of the Deering. Uh, there's no real evidence,
Speaker 1: and then none has ever come up with nobody was
Speaker 1: ever caught pirating a ship. But piracy is still a
Speaker 1: common thing even today. It happens a lot, not as
Speaker 1: common as it was. No, no, but it's still still
Speaker 1: has happened. It's yeah, And there really wasn't that much
Speaker 1: of value aboard the Deering. I mean, the most valuable
Speaker 1: thing really was the ship itself, which I noticed the pirates,
Speaker 1: if they managed to take the ship, they just allowed
Speaker 1: it to run around. But maybe they were really incompetent
Speaker 1: pirates and they abandoned. I mean, I guess there's an
Speaker 1: arguments we made that, like the crew would be pretty valuable. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you don't want the slave market. Oh that's a good point. Yeah, yea,
Speaker 1: so maybe they take the crew within. Let's let's let's
Speaker 1: think about this. So the crew thinking, you know, thinking
Speaker 1: well I don't want to be a slave, they run,
Speaker 1: They runner the ground to get away. Yeah, yeah, to
Speaker 1: get one, and then say they run no, I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's get yeah, take it together to foil the terrible
Speaker 1: pirates will destroy the thing you're after. That's that's what
Speaker 1: I was doing in Star Trek there away blowing up
Speaker 1: the Enterprise. Yeah, they're crashing into this planet, so you
Speaker 1: can't take it exactly. So if they can do it
Speaker 1: in Star Trek, they can do it on the Deering.
Speaker 1: But you know, the piracy say, with all these ships disappearing,
Speaker 1: you know, and all this other hicky stuff going on,
Speaker 1: I can understand why people might think that conclude pirates.
Speaker 1: But the reason I don't really buy the piracy theory
Speaker 1: is that not a single one of these ships got
Speaker 1: up a radio message or a distress call, and not
Speaker 1: a single one day now, if you're being boarded by pirates,
Speaker 1: have be being pursued by pirates, you know they're they're
Speaker 1: chasing your boat. That is a very good point. Pirates
Speaker 1: don't just materialize next to your boat like the Scooby
Speaker 1: Doo sho do on The Enterprise. But yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I think the only thing I can think of is
Speaker 1: like maybe they had a really early version of like
Speaker 1: jammer for radio signals, or they just rely on the
Speaker 1: fact that everybody's radio was crappy. And we're saying we
Speaker 1: have a documented instance of two radios not working right
Speaker 1: with the deering and then the light ship, neither of
Speaker 1: their radios were working. If there was just a weird
Speaker 1: spot in that area, if pirates were aware of that area,
Speaker 1: they would probably hang out. I don't think there was
Speaker 1: any problem with radio radio transmissions in the area, You
Speaker 1: don't think so, I don't think so. Never mind that theory,
Speaker 1: I think. And also the other thing about piracy is
Speaker 1: that it turns out there was there was a series
Speaker 1: of massive hurricanes in the Atlantic that a lot of
Speaker 1: these ships were sailing into, So maybe it shouldn't be
Speaker 1: so surprising they disappeared anyway. The next theory This is
Speaker 1: a popular one also, which is a variation on the
Speaker 1: piracy theory, which is bootleggers like yeah, ok ak a
Speaker 1: rum runners. So this theories says that some liquor smugglers
Speaker 1: working out of the Bahamas perhaps stole the ship to
Speaker 1: use it for rum running. Don't forget for everybody listening,
Speaker 1: this is prohibition era. This is this first probition starts
Speaker 1: to nineteen, so we're into the first year. Everybody's already
Speaker 1: figured out how to illegally move booth. Be honest, people
Speaker 1: figured out how to illegally move booze before prohibition ever
Speaker 1: took effect. But I'm saying on a mass scale. So
Speaker 1: that's what the run runners are. They had They always
Speaker 1: typically have a stationary ship and have the little ships
Speaker 1: running back and forth or one good fast ship in general.
Speaker 1: Here's a fun fact that you guys may or may
Speaker 1: not know. My grandpa when he was like ten, drink
Speaker 1: Room was a run runner. My my my great uncle
Speaker 1: on my dad's side, lived in lived in Utah, and
Speaker 1: he was he was a bootlegger. Yeah that he and
Speaker 1: his brother they were like ten and twelve. They would
Speaker 1: steal the car and take it, you know, just run stuff.
Speaker 1: For this guy, like the bootlegger would just like he'd
Speaker 1: be like, all right, these liveries need to happen here,
Speaker 1: and they'd be like, okay, cool. And then you know
Speaker 1: there were ten and twelve, so if they got caught,
Speaker 1: people would be like, you're just scamps. You don't know
Speaker 1: what you're doing. Yeah. That was a great thing about
Speaker 1: prohibition is that there was money to be made. The
Speaker 1: daring actually with that big cargo hold, could have carried
Speaker 1: a lot of liquor, a huge amount of liquor. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I actually I like this a little better than
Speaker 1: the piracy theory because, as I noted above, the item
Speaker 1: of greatest value here was the ship itself in this case,
Speaker 1: to the to they're not the pirates, to the run runners,
Speaker 1: it would be a very valuable thing indeed, because it
Speaker 1: could hauls such a fantastic amounts of booze and for
Speaker 1: a single run, and then since they stole it, it
Speaker 1: could just be discarded. There is a question, of course,
Speaker 1: of how to discreetly offload a million bucks worth of
Speaker 1: booze from a big five masted schooner. I'm not sure
Speaker 1: exactly how you do that. Well, they had several days
Speaker 1: to do it into other boats. Well, I suppose that's
Speaker 1: what you do, is you is you just anchor off
Speaker 1: shore somewhere hops. They didn't have any anchors, but you know,
Speaker 1: you hang out off shore. Other smaller boats come and
Speaker 1: get a load from you and head back in. Um.
Speaker 1: And that could be why they were when they were
Speaker 1: by the lightship. Everybody was just kind of milling about,
Speaker 1: waiting for the next little ship to come along to
Speaker 1: offload a bunch of booze to I mean, they may
Speaker 1: have been in the service of the rum Runners before
Speaker 1: they ever went by the lightship. I think about it.
Speaker 1: There was the tent when the handwriting changed. That might
Speaker 1: have been when they changed teams and started import and
Speaker 1: booze around, you know, when made a quick stop somewhere,
Speaker 1: picked up a bunch. I don't know, but well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I like the idea that would be nice, the way
Speaker 1: to supplement your income. Yeah, I mean it could even
Speaker 1: be that, Um, what, what's the first mate's name, McClellan. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it's possible that even like the thing they
Speaker 1: got in the fight with was, you know, mccleollan was like, listen,
Speaker 1: let's just make this one little stop, you know, I know,
Speaker 1: some guys like run some stuff and the captain was like, no, right,
Speaker 1: and he took it all on because the crew was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: will make some extra money. Yeah yeah. Warm was a
Speaker 1: real straight a yeah. And then you know, Wormel and
Speaker 1: McClellan just like ended up, you know, kind of butting
Speaker 1: heads the entire time. And finally, you know, mccollin was like,
Speaker 1: all right, well he's not going to go along with it,
Speaker 1: so we got to get rid of him. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: so yeah, and at least to another theory, which of
Speaker 1: course is mutiny. We'll get to that soon. But sorry, no,
Speaker 1: that's okay, that's true. That The only problem I have
Speaker 1: with it is I don't know why the rum Rudders
Speaker 1: would have abandoned the ship. I mean, maybe they just
Speaker 1: decided they didn't want to push their luck. You know,
Speaker 1: it's kind of a high profile boat. It kind of is.
Speaker 1: It's distinctive, it really is. It's not just gonna blend in.
Speaker 1: You can't just change the name and nobody knows that
Speaker 1: it was the Deering. Yeah, this is true, although if
Speaker 1: it was Bootleggers, it would explain why the boatswain as
Speaker 1: like perhaps the only live member of any kind of
Speaker 1: you know, Captain first mate, yeah, thank you, Comman Chain
Speaker 1: would be yelling, we lost our anchors. Somebody come meet
Speaker 1: us in this court that we have no real reason
Speaker 1: to be in, you know. So he's not he's not
Speaker 1: explicitly saying like we have been taken hostage, this is
Speaker 1: where we're going, but he's communicating something doing actually didn't
Speaker 1: have the anchors, that the anchors were gone. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: there was I think I think he was probably while
Speaker 1: he was yelling, he was probably blinking out of the
Speaker 1: stress signal with his eyelids. Yeah, yeah, I think that's
Speaker 1: what it was. Yeah, Yeah, that's what I always do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we know, Yeah, I mean, we don't know. I was
Speaker 1: like I was like for the video, I was planking
Speaker 1: out latitude and longitude and all that. Yeah. Yeah. I
Speaker 1: think from the Rummers point of view, if they were
Speaker 1: if they were done with the ship and they just
Speaker 1: wanted to be rid of it, maybe they could have
Speaker 1: run it up on shore. But that creates a lot
Speaker 1: of it might have been smarter to like lash the
Speaker 1: wheel such a way that it's going to go east
Speaker 1: in the middle of the Atlantic, where it's gonna like
Speaker 1: run into probably a storm. Or hurricane be so punk
Speaker 1: and then then it's just gone. It's just like any
Speaker 1: other ship that just vanishes. And especially back in these days.
Speaker 1: Even today ships vanished without a trace, but not so often.
Speaker 1: But back in the back in this time a lot. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but maybe the wind changed and you know, and I
Speaker 1: wind up getting blown back to the west instead, and
Speaker 1: you know, up onto a sand bank and diamond shoals.
Speaker 1: So for this theory, we're saying that the crew is dead.
Speaker 1: I think this series, the most of the crew was complicit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I think so. I guess yeah, I guess.
Speaker 1: My question with that then is that it was a
Speaker 1: big deal pretty immediately, right. I mean, like the fact
Speaker 1: that this ship had just been completely abandoned and run
Speaker 1: aground was big deal within four days or so, right,
Speaker 1: And so you I mean, realistically, you can't get that
Speaker 1: far in lifeboats, right, And it's hard to get back
Speaker 1: on a ship after you've gotten on a lifeboat. Right.
Speaker 1: So if you even you have a life boat and
Speaker 1: you're going to a second ship, like that's a that's
Speaker 1: a challenge. Well, if you got a ladder, you know
Speaker 1: you can do it. You can, but then what do
Speaker 1: you do with the lifeboats you have to sink them somehow,
Speaker 1: so they didn't never show up. So I guess the
Speaker 1: question is, like, why didn't anybody if the crew was
Speaker 1: alive and complicit and like made it to shore kind
Speaker 1: of in that area, why didn't somebody say, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: my friend Billy was on that ship, he's here. Well,
Speaker 1: they could very well have left with the rum Runners.
Speaker 1: I mean, think about it, they don't have to. Just
Speaker 1: because the lifeboats are gone doesn't mean the crew actually
Speaker 1: got into them. It is entirely possible that they tied
Speaker 1: up to one of the rum Runners boats, offloaded all
Speaker 1: their gear, drop the lifeboats after popping a couple of
Speaker 1: holes in them, and they sail away back to Barba
Speaker 1: and then go somewhere. This is the question I've always had,
Speaker 1: is that a thing you could actually do is like
Speaker 1: basically just last two boats together and make transfers cleanly.
Speaker 1: That actually thing you can you can do that you go,
Speaker 1: you want to put bumpers in between them, you know,
Speaker 1: like tires or I mean, it's the same thing as
Speaker 1: lashing a boat to a dock. Yeah, it can be done, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean obviously it's it's it's not easy it's hard
Speaker 1: to do in rough seas. Yeah. And actually as for
Speaker 1: the lifeboats, they didn't even need to punch holes it.
Speaker 1: I mean maybe, I mean they're they're, you know, nice
Speaker 1: little boats. They're probably worth some money take them. But
Speaker 1: as as far as as sailing a long ways, um
Speaker 1: after the mutiny on the Bounty, true story when Captain
Speaker 1: bly Was was forced to get into a lifeboat from
Speaker 1: the Bounty and a bunch of a bunch of his
Speaker 1: crew went with him into the lifeboat. In fact, they
Speaker 1: were packed to the gills. They sailed that thing for
Speaker 1: hundreds of miles. That was what was the year that
Speaker 1: that was? It was nineteenth century. I don't remember exactly
Speaker 1: what the hundreds of ballpark issues anyway, but I mean
Speaker 1: they sailed. They sailed that thing for god knows. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know what two thousand miles you can It's
Speaker 1: it takes a lot of sailing skill. And I don't
Speaker 1: think in this case they were close to they were
Speaker 1: very close to the coast. That would be easily assuming
Speaker 1: that they had a sale on that on this on
Speaker 1: their boats, and they must have, because there was everybody
Speaker 1: would have been extra sale on the deering. So they
Speaker 1: could have taken sale with them. But my point is
Speaker 1: is that if they got on board with rum Runners,
Speaker 1: they could have only Okay, we're saying that the first mate,
Speaker 1: we were pretty sure it was probably still alive, and
Speaker 1: the rest of the crew because I'm going to guess
Speaker 1: that the engineer was probably a goner as well, and
Speaker 1: so that in the captain as well. So that means
Speaker 1: everybody else they were all um Danish, right, most of
Speaker 1: them are Danish. Yeah, so they could have very easily
Speaker 1: just caught, you know, got a job to sail home
Speaker 1: and all problems solved. They're like, we've we got out
Speaker 1: of there, and I added an extra constant to my
Speaker 1: name and nobody knows who I am and I went
Speaker 1: on about my business. That's true. Yeah, Yeah, I got
Speaker 1: a fake pair of glasses and grew a mustache and
Speaker 1: nobody knows who I am. Yeah, all right, okay, so
Speaker 1: you could the run runner thing is you know, that's
Speaker 1: an attractive theory. I'm not sure there's not really any evidence,
Speaker 1: but yeah, let's get to our next theory that has
Speaker 1: no evidence. There's a little bit of e Yeah. Another
Speaker 1: one was communist piracy by the Russians, then by by
Speaker 1: fellow travelers here in the US, and it was thought
Speaker 1: that Communist sympathizers hijacked all these ships, not just not
Speaker 1: just the Dering, but all the other nine ships and
Speaker 1: took them to Russia because some of the miss missing
Speaker 1: ships were carrying cargoes that had materials that the Russians
Speaker 1: couldn't buy because they were under embargo because of the
Speaker 1: new Soviet regime in Russia. Wasn't was it one of
Speaker 1: the other ships? It was also in the same area
Speaker 1: that was it the Hewlett and that was a sulfur carrier? Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was. It was steam driven though, right I think so? Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: because I remember that being in the list of ships
Speaker 1: that are called out for for this theory of you know,
Speaker 1: going to the Russians. Yeah, people often talk about the
Speaker 1: Thedeering and the heat was kind of in the same
Speaker 1: story that they appeared together a lot, because it disappeared
Speaker 1: very close by each other about the same time. Except
Speaker 1: the Daring, of course, didn't disappear. The he Wit did disappear,
Speaker 1: although I'm not so sure, I mean the Hewitts and
Speaker 1: I haven't researched that very heavily, but it was it
Speaker 1: was a sulfur carrier. And my understanding is I've heard
Speaker 1: other sulfur carriers disappearing mysteriously also because it's so corrosive
Speaker 1: and so springing. Giant in the league. Yeah, how the
Speaker 1: ship breaks into like the cyclops. Yeah, yeah, it just
Speaker 1: breaks in half and boom, there you go down to
Speaker 1: the bottom of the ocean. We'll find out one of
Speaker 1: these days when we drain the oceans. There's gotta be
Speaker 1: a lot of interesting stuff done there to look at.
Speaker 1: Do you either, I know, Devon does. I don't know
Speaker 1: if you do. Joe is read uh is it? X
Speaker 1: K what's the comic? X K D C there? He
Speaker 1: has a great comic where he drains the oceans and
Speaker 1: renames everything on the planet. And it's the funniest thing ever.
Speaker 1: And it's got little shipwrecks all over on little math By.
Speaker 1: Now I want to be the first. I want to
Speaker 1: be out there with my little, my little like al
Speaker 1: terrain vehicle. I want to buzz around and find some
Speaker 1: old reps and salvage tons and tons of old gold
Speaker 1: coins and stuff that's actually on the inside of the
Speaker 1: dust jacket of that book you gave me for Christmas
Speaker 1: from him that's where I remember it from, which is
Speaker 1: that what he does is he does he jett around
Speaker 1: and salvaging gold coins and stuff out of shipwreck. No. No,
Speaker 1: he's the author of that comic series. Okay, and it
Speaker 1: was all his writings. Anyway, we're off topic. I apologize.
Speaker 1: That's all right. Back to the UH. And it believed
Speaker 1: that communist sympathizers hijacked all these ships that disappeared and
Speaker 1: took them to Russia because some of the missing ships
Speaker 1: were carrying cargoes that had materials in them that the
Speaker 1: Russians couldn't buy muka on the open market because there
Speaker 1: was an embargo by the West against the new Soviet regime.
Speaker 1: Can remember there was that there was that revolution in
Speaker 1: nineteen Yeah, and uh, Prince to Sannastasia disappeared. Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1: There's another mystery. Yeah, good mystery, by the way. And
Speaker 1: there were rumors that vessels that had their names blacked
Speaker 1: out we're seeing at Russian ports and yeah, yeah, really
Speaker 1: exactly somebody taking a picture and then taking a sharpie,
Speaker 1: and I was thinking there was somebody in import with
Speaker 1: a big shirt we just walking along, Yeah, giant sharper
Speaker 1: Man size sharp Yeah, a yeah, it's a it's a
Speaker 1: guy with a small crane that's got a giant sharpie. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But anyway, back to let's let's be serious now. The
Speaker 1: FBI rated the headquarters of the United Russian Workers Party
Speaker 1: in New York, and they were Communist sympathizers, of course,
Speaker 1: and they came across some papers which had orders to
Speaker 1: capture American ships. This is from the Bolsheviks to their
Speaker 1: to their communist sympathizer share in the US. They wanted
Speaker 1: them to capture American ships and take them to Russia.
Speaker 1: The U. S. Navy was looking for the cruise with
Speaker 1: all these ships as late as July, because navy brass
Speaker 1: really truly believed that the ships were not sunk with
Speaker 1: have been taken to a secret Russian port. So yeah, listen,
Speaker 1: here's the here's the deal. You are telling a bunch
Speaker 1: of guys who have a ideological belief that they agree
Speaker 1: with you. You know, you're all on the same page,
Speaker 1: but they have no idea how to do this stuff.
Speaker 1: Most of them are just kind of a lay person.
Speaker 1: You're you're telling them to create this giant, massive plan
Speaker 1: and do this and they have no funding and no
Speaker 1: idea what they're gonna do. This was all just hot
Speaker 1: air pretty much. There's not any any evidence that any
Speaker 1: of this plan and these plans were carried out into
Speaker 1: real life. I I and I assume also that the
Speaker 1: plan would they I mean, they could have recruited I'm
Speaker 1: sure they could have recruited communist sympathizers who were actually
Speaker 1: sailors and capable of operating a ship, but it'd be
Speaker 1: very difficult to get them all onto the same ship. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: you have to have to find a way to get
Speaker 1: them onto a crew or that. One of the things
Speaker 1: about piracy is piracy doesn't always happen on the high seas.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it happens right in port. And yeah, and so
Speaker 1: what you do is you go down and you just
Speaker 1: like hijacking car, yeah exactly, And you just go down
Speaker 1: to the docks and pick a nice ship and just
Speaker 1: board it, take it over, tie up the crew, and
Speaker 1: do whatever you do with the crew, and just sail
Speaker 1: and just sail out of port. You know. I mean
Speaker 1: that that's actually what I would choose to do. If
Speaker 1: I were these these communes and I was wanting to
Speaker 1: hijack a ship, I would do it at port. I
Speaker 1: wouldn't try to do it at sea, that's kind of difficult. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's why I was like, really, do you like lash
Speaker 1: a ship to another ship and it seems like really involved,
Speaker 1: Like why would you just get on it and go Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's yeah, that's that's really the best way to do it.
Speaker 1: So as far as these guys, these ships disappearing at sea, well,
Speaker 1: I mean it's possible. I guess that they actually were
Speaker 1: boarded in port, that they actually set sail just like
Speaker 1: they were supposed to, unschedule and everything. Then unknown to everybody,
Speaker 1: they had these conspiracists on board actually controlling the ships,
Speaker 1: and they were sailed over to Russia. That's entirely possible.
Speaker 1: At which point then they clunked out the captain and
Speaker 1: the first mate and the engineer and tied them up
Speaker 1: somewhere in the hold, and they tied him up, and
Speaker 1: then they made them do kobuki theater before throwing them
Speaker 1: off the edge of the ship. Maybe they did that,
Speaker 1: or maybe they took on to Russia, and Russia they
Speaker 1: were just sent off to the Gulag where they lived
Speaker 1: out the rest of their days. Except that in this instance,
Speaker 1: the ship actually we found the show they did actually
Speaker 1: managed to get the deering there. Well, yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: if they were yeah, if it was part of our
Speaker 1: communist conspiracy, then obviously they screwed up badly and they
Speaker 1: ran it out, they ran it aground, So okay, are
Speaker 1: marks on their permanent record right there? Yeah, I'm kind
Speaker 1: of ruling this one out myself. I mean, it might
Speaker 1: have been responsible for some of the disappearances of the
Speaker 1: other ships maybe, but their evidence is rather sketchy on
Speaker 1: this one. So let's go to another theory, which is hurricanes. Um,
Speaker 1: which is, well, hurricanes one is that what has that
Speaker 1: ever happened? Never? Never ever? No? Actually, um, as far
Speaker 1: as and this doesn't really explain the deering, but if
Speaker 1: you look at a lot of popular websites about the day,
Speaker 1: they always talk about hurricanes being a factor in at
Speaker 1: least the disappearances of the other line ships. And but
Speaker 1: besides which, as far as it goes the disappears of
Speaker 1: the crew of the deering. You know, if they're if
Speaker 1: you're in the middle of the hurricane and you're in
Speaker 1: a large ship, are you gonna leave your large ship
Speaker 1: and climb into a lifeboat? You stay in your large ship? Hell? Yeah,
Speaker 1: So there's there's a giant problem with the entire all
Speaker 1: these because it was the nine ships the deering included
Speaker 1: the U. S. Government included the Okay, and so it
Speaker 1: was the other nine that were never found. A bunch
Speaker 1: of them the U. S. Government had decided were lost
Speaker 1: in hurricanes. Here's the problem with that. I actually decided.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I wonder what. I wonder how
Speaker 1: big that hurricane wasn't So this afternoon it dawned on
Speaker 1: me to take a look. There's no freaking hurricanes in
Speaker 1: January of that year. Hurricane season is like April or
Speaker 1: May in that part of the Atlantic, like all of
Speaker 1: the there's five or six hurricanes on record, and the
Speaker 1: earliest one I think started it happened in mayor June.
Speaker 1: So there's something really weird in the reporting on this story.
Speaker 1: Like I almost feel like somebody decided it had to
Speaker 1: be a hurricane and said the US government decided that's
Speaker 1: what the problem was, because that they're not recorded where
Speaker 1: where where the Atlantic just in general. I looked at ID,
Speaker 1: I looked up the I was looking up. Well what
Speaker 1: we got. I got me started was I wonder what
Speaker 1: the name of that hurricane was? Because hurricanes always have
Speaker 1: named except the naming conventions for hurricanes didn't start until
Speaker 1: the military. The U. S Military did it. I started
Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty and then it came out in like
Speaker 1: fifty two or fifty three. We started using it everywhere
Speaker 1: in common popular culture. Prior to that, they were just numbered,
Speaker 1: and that's where I started finding. I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: what's the record of And there are six listed hurricanes
Speaker 1: for that year, And there was a number of different places,
Speaker 1: and they all had the same six. They all track
Speaker 1: their course, but they don't start at that time of year.
Speaker 1: I mean, but that were these all six hurricanes? Were
Speaker 1: they once that made landfall? Yes? I mean that. What
Speaker 1: you're saying basically is that like people survived or observed
Speaker 1: these hurricanes and then they recorded them. Right, if we're
Speaker 1: saying there was a hurricane in the middle of the
Speaker 1: Atlantic Ocean, it's not going to be quite probably in
Speaker 1: the like more southern part, tropical part in the middle
Speaker 1: where people are going from like Rio de Janeiro area
Speaker 1: up to the Atlantic seabord of the United States. It's
Speaker 1: it's totally plausible to say none of the ships survived
Speaker 1: to record that it was never observed. But my problem
Speaker 1: with it is is that is not a hurricane season
Speaker 1: that time of year. January and February are not listed
Speaker 1: as hurricane season based on what I was looking at,
Speaker 1: And so that was my my, my, my, WTF moment,
Speaker 1: because there's something hinky about this theory and that well, no,
Speaker 1: I feel like maybe the hurricane thing is a weird
Speaker 1: age old add on that has just entrenched itself. It's
Speaker 1: nobody believes it for the deering, but it's entrenched itself
Speaker 1: in Cuba. I've just looked up like someplace kind of
Speaker 1: middle their highest number of hurricanes are September and October,
Speaker 1: so that would mean that like January would be later,
Speaker 1: but also not like it's not as though it's six.
Speaker 1: We could but we could say the same thing about
Speaker 1: you know, in in April May season, well that it's
Speaker 1: it's a two months early, and you're saying it's two
Speaker 1: or three months late, but it's it's not in there,
Speaker 1: and I'm just it's weird to me that it's not
Speaker 1: recorded when all these other ones that I came across
Speaker 1: were three though you think three, right, three that year six,
Speaker 1: six that year six, that year were recorded on that coast.
Speaker 1: So it just seems really low to me. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know the I mean, it's all for not it
Speaker 1: doesn't it doesn't matter because obviously the deering didn't go
Speaker 1: down in hurriyeh it is. It's just it was a
Speaker 1: weird thing that I came across. Yeah that there was
Speaker 1: some rough weather obviously, but yeah, no hurricane. And obviously
Speaker 1: you know who's going to abandon ship in a hurricane.
Speaker 1: So this is yeah, this, this one is just out there,
Speaker 1: so I thought threw it in. So we're going to
Speaker 1: move on. Let's move on to a more favorite theory
Speaker 1: out there, which is mutiny for various reasons. I mean,
Speaker 1: and you can, again, as we did earlier, combined us
Speaker 1: with the rum runner theory I think too great effect.
Speaker 1: H Or it might have just been that rum fueled mutiny.
Speaker 1: I love it. Oh hell yeah, And that would be
Speaker 1: that would make me a little more fun, Captain Jack Sparrow.
Speaker 1: That's how it always happens. Uh yeah. So of course,
Speaker 1: the war Miles conflict with McClellan and his attitude towards
Speaker 1: his crew were well known, which is one of the
Speaker 1: reasons this theory is popular. And maybe the feelings were reciprocated,
Speaker 1: or maybe like you, as we're saying, and perhaps there
Speaker 1: was an opportunity for the crew to make some money
Speaker 1: doing a little room running and so yeah, and the
Speaker 1: incident of the lightship does tend to indicate that something
Speaker 1: happened to the Cappen because he wasn't seen in the
Speaker 1: quarter deck. And then the boson was the one who
Speaker 1: was who was getting the message across the lightship. And
Speaker 1: then perhaps what they what they realized is that after
Speaker 1: they mutely realized, well, we might have a hard time
Speaker 1: explaining the captain being gone, and so maybe we should
Speaker 1: just sort of all sort of like just vanished, which
Speaker 1: is kind of easy to do in that day and age.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's a lot easier to do than today.
Speaker 1: And yeah, they send out the description of everybody. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and the script is yeah, the scriptures were not that
Speaker 1: close or easy. It's not hard, not that hard to
Speaker 1: start a new identity. And I'll say that a majority
Speaker 1: of the crew were from a foreign country. Anyway, they
Speaker 1: can go back to Denmark or Finland and yeah or anywhere. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And so as I was saying earlier, and maybe they
Speaker 1: had meant for the ship to go out, to go
Speaker 1: out in the middle of the land and they can sink.
Speaker 1: But it didn't work out that way. Mr Snuggles got
Speaker 1: ahold of it and turned the wheel. Yeah. Mr Snuggles
Speaker 1: was not so keen on going out in the Atlantic
Speaker 1: and dying and so, yeah, he did not believe in
Speaker 1: Chicken of the sea. Yeah, he went out and he
Speaker 1: chewed on that rope they'd last the wheel with, you know,
Speaker 1: and that cheated up, cheat it until it was gone
Speaker 1: and the wheel was free and the boat came about
Speaker 1: because it was a cardboard rope. Yeah, there's a cartoon rope.
Speaker 1: The US government actually believed that the mutiny was the
Speaker 1: strongest theory that and they I really believe that the
Speaker 1: crew survived and they were looking for them for a
Speaker 1: long time. They sent descriptions to the crew to U
Speaker 1: S counsular offices all over the world and they were
Speaker 1: told to keep an eye out for him. And they
Speaker 1: continued this for like two years and it was like
Speaker 1: I think when they finally gave it up and there
Speaker 1: was the FBI did get a whip of the first mate,
Speaker 1: Charles McClellan. On March twentieth ninety one, a man named
Speaker 1: Cyril McClellan applied for him god An A B. Seamen's
Speaker 1: license from the Board of Steamboat Inspectors in Portland, Oregon. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Back it was again, Yeah, you have to. I checked
Speaker 1: out checked it out. They found that they couldn't find
Speaker 1: Cyril McClellan. He apparently disappeared again and he had given
Speaker 1: a fake address on his application and that was the
Speaker 1: last ever heard of Cyril McClellan. I can't believe is
Speaker 1: that whoever took his application didn't look at it because
Speaker 1: he gave what was it was the Semens union's house
Speaker 1: address or something like that was essentially the same as
Speaker 1: you had, the same place where he was submitting. Well,
Speaker 1: you know, it might have been the guy, but it
Speaker 1: just said like, hey, I might I might tinerant. I'm
Speaker 1: a seman. I move around and the guy at the
Speaker 1: guy at the union of the place just said, oh,
Speaker 1: that's okay, we'll use our address and that well, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe that it was common Yeah, I mean, maybe that
Speaker 1: was what it was. Yeah, when we were on the
Speaker 1: cruise ship, the address that we had to give people
Speaker 1: and that was like on all the legal documents and
Speaker 1: stuff like that was the like cruise ship main office
Speaker 1: headquarters in Miami, yeah, so it may not uncommon may
Speaker 1: have been common practice, but that's so. It's actually Cyril
Speaker 1: was a dead end. And as far as the other
Speaker 1: members of the crew, there were a few false sightings
Speaker 1: and that's about it. Otherwise they were never seen again.
Speaker 1: So we've got the we've we've done mutiny. That's it, right,
Speaker 1: that's pretty much it again. Uh you know, there's no
Speaker 1: indication of being I think is the strongest theory, or
Speaker 1: something at least happened to the captain. And uh so,
Speaker 1: given the fact that there did seem to be a
Speaker 1: little bit of dissension among between the captain and the
Speaker 1: crew and everything like that, it's not unreasonable. It's not
Speaker 1: an unreasonable totally, and especially if you combine it with
Speaker 1: the rum runner thing or something else not even wrong,
Speaker 1: I mean smuggling something, you know, get rid of the
Speaker 1: captain because the captain is all this this this real straight,
Speaker 1: our kind of guy, and you guys want to like,
Speaker 1: you know, make some money. Where where was it they
Speaker 1: stopped that the first mate got thrown in jail. That
Speaker 1: was Barbados. I think it was in Barbados. So it
Speaker 1: is is it not possible that some other illicit cargo
Speaker 1: could have been put onto the boat at that time,
Speaker 1: entirely possible without the knowledge of the captain. I'm just
Speaker 1: curious about that. Yeah, I don't know how much form
Speaker 1: I presume, you know, I don't know what cargo they
Speaker 1: picked up in Rio. It really doesn't make sense to
Speaker 1: go all the way to Rio and not have a
Speaker 1: return cargo. Hopefully it was a manganese Yeah a good point. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that stuff gets slippery. Yea. Hopefully it wasn't like bananas.
Speaker 1: Probably like banana appeals. They had a cargo hold full
Speaker 1: of banana appeals, No wonter the boat went out. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, I heard stories about like people opening up
Speaker 1: their shipments of bananas over here in the States and
Speaker 1: there's just gigantic, scariest poisonous spiders in there and stuff. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's what got the captain. Yeah, So are there
Speaker 1: any other theories out there? Well, this is this is
Speaker 1: my own personal theory um, which is maybe insurance fraud
Speaker 1: that wasn't unheard of nor is it today. No, not
Speaker 1: at all. Miss true to me is why the care
Speaker 1: ladeering was built to begin with. Because even though I'm
Speaker 1: pro carrella deering, it was a nice ship. It was,
Speaker 1: you know, you've seen pictures of it, the ship, but
Speaker 1: it was built in nineteen nineteen, which is at that time,
Speaker 1: ship owners were deliberately running their their sailing ships onto
Speaker 1: the rocks to collect insurance money because they were so slow,
Speaker 1: they were so an economic compared to other means of
Speaker 1: locomotion like coal and oil. And so there was a
Speaker 1: local incident I mentioned it earlier, the glenn Eslin, the
Speaker 1: one that ran at ran aground at the base of
Speaker 1: the Econi Mountain that wind up, you know, being parts
Speaker 1: of houses all over town and a thing like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was a nineteen thirteen and there's been suspicion ever
Speaker 1: since that that was actually a deliberate, deliberate grounding. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's an unsolved mystery. There's another explanation too.
Speaker 1: I won't tell you that because who knows. We might
Speaker 1: cover this someday, but it was Yeah, I know, this
Speaker 1: is but it's a small little mystery really, but it's
Speaker 1: it's it's interesting though. And uh, but at that time,
Speaker 1: this is like six years before the Deering was built,
Speaker 1: and everybody's running their boats up on the rocks because
Speaker 1: they just can't make any money anymore. You can't get cargoes.
Speaker 1: Who's gonna pay you to take two months to get
Speaker 1: a lot of cold rio? Well someone apparently? Yeah, Well yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, but obviously if you've got a faster boat,
Speaker 1: you're gonna be able to make more money. I think
Speaker 1: about the difference between you know, ups overnight and the
Speaker 1: ups slow boat. Right, Yeah, people pay a lot more
Speaker 1: money to get in there fast, but more money and
Speaker 1: you have a quicker turnaround. But there's also those guys
Speaker 1: who are looking for the way to save the most money.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's some show I was listening to about
Speaker 1: the transportation of crude crude oil, and yeah, you could
Speaker 1: drop it into a truck and you could drive it
Speaker 1: all the way to the refinery, which would only take
Speaker 1: like three hours and cost you the driver. Or you
Speaker 1: could pump it through a pipeline which takes days on in.
Speaker 1: But it turns out the pipeline is dirt cheap, so
Speaker 1: screw it. I'll go with the cheap route because it's
Speaker 1: gonna save me x amount per per barrel. So I
Speaker 1: mean there are people who would, no matter what, the fastest,
Speaker 1: most whizzy wig way to get things shipped is go
Speaker 1: for an antiquated route because they're going to save cash,
Speaker 1: which means you have a better bottle if you're not
Speaker 1: if you're not in a huge hurry. But but the
Speaker 1: thing about it is is that and Cole is always wanted,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, for sure. But the thing about it is
Speaker 1: is that you have to pay your crew, and you
Speaker 1: have to keep your crew alive and feed them and
Speaker 1: everything like that. Do you want to pay well? Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like I think the lowest paid among the crew was
Speaker 1: getting like a hundred bucks a month, which for nineteen
Speaker 1: twenty that's actually pretty details actually pretty yeah. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean a hundred dollars is like um one two one
Speaker 1: dollars today, Okay, so round figure. That's not a bad living,
Speaker 1: especially I mean if you're a sailor and you don't
Speaker 1: have to pay room aboard, yeah, you're being fed. All
Speaker 1: you gotta do is buy booze when you're in port
Speaker 1: the boat and you're loaded with cash to get Ruman prostitutes.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, sailor's life for me. Yeah. But the so
Speaker 1: the carolydeering was again outmoded. It was it was it
Speaker 1: was kind of a white elephant from the very beginning
Speaker 1: and the Deering was for a freighter comparatively luxurious, and
Speaker 1: and as you said, of course, as you said, maybe
Speaker 1: they wanted to make it really nice because it might
Speaker 1: might be taking out passengers, or maybe there was there
Speaker 1: was an intention at some point of making it entirely
Speaker 1: a passenger ship, like a cruise ship. But on the
Speaker 1: other hand, maybe the owners of the Deering made a
Speaker 1: maybe overstand their case a little bit describing the ship,
Speaker 1: and maybe they didn't really spend as much building that
Speaker 1: daring as they actually said they did. Maybe it was like,
Speaker 1: you know, just all a lot, you know, a not less,
Speaker 1: like they went back and the paperwork so that it
Speaker 1: was a nice ship instead of just made out of
Speaker 1: the most basic woods available exactly. Yeah, And so I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm sure it was still a decent enough ship, but
Speaker 1: it might not. It might be that. Uh. They actually
Speaker 1: they actually realized sometime into the project that you know what,
Speaker 1: just random numbers, this just doesn't pencil, you know, And
Speaker 1: so they said they decided, hey, well, I guess we'll
Speaker 1: complete it as cheaply as we can, and then a
Speaker 1: couple of years from now we're running aground deliberately, because
Speaker 1: as I said, everybody else was termed for that. That
Speaker 1: is weirdly long term to decide when you're going to
Speaker 1: destroy the ship. I mean, you you get insurance right away,
Speaker 1: so I mean, why wouldn't you scuttle it on its
Speaker 1: maiden or second voyage? Well, I mean it was it
Speaker 1: was built voyage, wasn't it. Yeah, yeah, I didn't They
Speaker 1: just go down to realtition and then they came back up.
Speaker 1: I don't think it was a maiden voyage because it
Speaker 1: was it was built, but it was. It was actually
Speaker 1: operating for less than two years, right, But that's my point.
Speaker 1: It's like, if you were good, if you're you're like,
Speaker 1: oh god, this doesn't pencil. I need to get rid
Speaker 1: of this right away. Why wouldn't you sink it to
Speaker 1: the bottom of the ocean right away and collect the
Speaker 1: insurance money. Well? I can think of some reasons, Right,
Speaker 1: You don't take out a life insurance policy on someone
Speaker 1: and then immediately kill them. You wait a couple of years.
Speaker 1: But if they're a manufacturer ships, they're doing this all
Speaker 1: the time. But this is the last ship that they made,
Speaker 1: right Yeah. So I think the other reason I can
Speaker 1: think of is you build the ship and you think,
Speaker 1: all right, we're gonna scuttle this thing. And then somebody
Speaker 1: gives you a contract and you go, crap, okay, we
Speaker 1: gotta we're gonna make this delivery, and then the next
Speaker 1: one we're going to scuttle it. And then somebody else says, oh, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: do you want to take the coal down for us?
Speaker 1: And you go, yeah, okay, that makes money. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's making money. It's still making money. It's not as
Speaker 1: though they money, but you're not. You're not completely yet,
Speaker 1: but we're I mean, like, I don't know if they
Speaker 1: even were bleeding money. They certainly weren't making a fortune,
Speaker 1: but they weren't I don't know, they were getting business
Speaker 1: to keep it and so you know, but from their
Speaker 1: point of Viears a shipping company, not just a ship
Speaker 1: building company, was a shipping company. There was more money
Speaker 1: to be made if they could free up a little
Speaker 1: capital and construct something that was saying field by coal
Speaker 1: and faster. And so how to they didn't doing that?
Speaker 1: How to free that up, Well you gotta like collect
Speaker 1: the insurance money on this boat. But they didn't. They didn't.
Speaker 1: They didn't do that anyway. I mean, but you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's also they were set up to build wooden
Speaker 1: sailing ships. They could have actually just bought a ship,
Speaker 1: commissioned something built somewhere else, right, But I guess yeah,
Speaker 1: for me, it's just like if they were if if
Speaker 1: somebody was saying like, yeah, we'll give you money to
Speaker 1: do this thing that your ship is built to do,
Speaker 1: I don't know why you wouldn't say, yeah, okay, we'll
Speaker 1: do that. And then suddenly, you know, that person says,
Speaker 1: you know what you guys are like, it's too slow,
Speaker 1: it's not working, and you go, all right, this is
Speaker 1: my chance, I'm gonna But here's here's my my hard
Speaker 1: part with this is that, I mean, yeah, we're we're
Speaker 1: talking about the sunk cost. You know, they put all
Speaker 1: this money and effort into it and they don't want it.
Speaker 1: So now they don't want to get rid of because
Speaker 1: it's it seems to maybe be going on and working.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, Joe has mentioned, well, why
Speaker 1: don't you just commission somebody that makes an oil burning
Speaker 1: or coal burning ship. Well, I mean even in that time,
Speaker 1: it wasn't for something of that scale, and by that
Speaker 1: mean I mean the price tag. It wasn't uncommon to
Speaker 1: have to finance it. So, I mean, it's not it's
Speaker 1: not as if you had to keep this thing going
Speaker 1: so you could get the cash flow to build up
Speaker 1: enough money to then buy this other boat that you
Speaker 1: were going to commission, Well you were gonna buy it
Speaker 1: on on credit anyway? Well sure, sure, but I mean
Speaker 1: it's uh, you know, I mean, yeah, they can buy
Speaker 1: the other boat on credit anyway. But essentially they have
Speaker 1: to get rid of this boat because it just isn't
Speaker 1: making them all that much money. Again, that's why problem
Speaker 1: is that if they knew in the beginning it was
Speaker 1: going to be a losing hand, I don't see why
Speaker 1: they wouldn't have just piled it right away. But that's
Speaker 1: that's We've We've thought a number of different things. I mean,
Speaker 1: some people are you know, these guys ran a boatyard
Speaker 1: and they built and the building ships. It might have
Speaker 1: been that they decided to go ahead and start doing
Speaker 1: it because there were a lot of people who worked
Speaker 1: for them, and they felt bad about the whole idea
Speaker 1: of shutting the whole thing down and laying them off.
Speaker 1: You know. So what you're saying business owners have scruples.
Speaker 1: A lot of them do, actually, But yeah, I know,
Speaker 1: but but I mean totally disagrees with you. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: so you know, that could have been one of the reasons.
Speaker 1: I don't know exactly what, but again, this this was
Speaker 1: the time when everybody was one of their ships aground
Speaker 1: for the insurance money, and so wouldn't totally surprise me.
Speaker 1: And it might be think about this, it might be
Speaker 1: the plan was, well, we're going to deliver a little
Speaker 1: colt down the Rio and the way back, we'll stopp
Speaker 1: in Barbados to the Bahamas or whatever and pick up
Speaker 1: a ton of rum. And you know, everybody's on board
Speaker 1: with this, right, everybody's you know, we're gonna we're gonna
Speaker 1: bring this stuff back. Everyone's on board except the captain
Speaker 1: and his son. The first mate get the captain gets sick,
Speaker 1: and then you gotta like, you know, get these these
Speaker 1: two other guys. So now, so now your conspiracy to
Speaker 1: you know, like not to have a very lucrative rum
Speaker 1: run before you sink your ship. Now it's kind of
Speaker 1: like throwing into a little bit of jeopardy. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: going I'm getting for a pretty far afield here, But
Speaker 1: you know, I kind of like the idea anyway, I
Speaker 1: like the whole rum running idea anyway, just because I
Speaker 1: like Booze? Yeah yeah, who doesn't like booze? Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: not not really. Okay, you guys have any more thoughts theories?
Speaker 1: I I don't. But are we You have more notes here?
Speaker 1: What what is this about? Oh yeah, the Historical Society.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, great? Out of the Atlantic Museum I
Speaker 1: called here. Actually I researched this mystery months and months ago,
Speaker 1: and I had notes about it, and which I can't
Speaker 1: find that they've gone on a walk about. This is
Speaker 1: what happens with the summer series. Yeah, we do other
Speaker 1: stuff and then we forget what we're doing. I think
Speaker 1: it just happens anyway. We will, like we all get
Speaker 1: those stories that we really like. We do a bunch
Speaker 1: of research and we're like, all you gotta find the
Speaker 1: right time for it, and then our notes. I'm glad that.
Speaker 1: I'm glad to note. I'm not know that I'm not
Speaker 1: the only person that happens to if you Yeah, all right, yeah,
Speaker 1: back to the graveyard of the Atlantic Museum. I got,
Speaker 1: I got ahold of them. I called and talked to
Speaker 1: as a nice lady whose name I don't have anymore
Speaker 1: because I lost my notes that we had a little chat,
Speaker 1: and she actually was not able to tell me too
Speaker 1: much about She doesn't really know any more than the
Speaker 1: Internet knows about this whole story. But she knew one thing.
Speaker 1: She was able to give me one useful bit of information,
Speaker 1: which was that Mr Snuggles was rescued and was brought
Speaker 1: back to Hatteras Village. And she said that the cat
Speaker 1: was polydactyl, which, if you don't know what that means,
Speaker 1: that music cat has more than the usual five toes
Speaker 1: six or seven per pro. Yeah. And when it turns
Speaker 1: out there are a lot of polydactical kiddies in the
Speaker 1: Adderas Village area that are apparently descended from that cat.
Speaker 1: So there is they have one a little bit of
Speaker 1: living evidence from the whole careleadering mystery. So I wonder, um,
Speaker 1: do you think that the cats that are at Hemingway's
Speaker 1: estate are from there? I don't know, because Hemingway had
Speaker 1: the white cat that was Polly, and then when he
Speaker 1: left the place to the cats, suddenly every cat there
Speaker 1: was Polly or had the trait. I have a friend
Speaker 1: who has a poly cat. Yeah. Actually, yeah, you guys
Speaker 1: have a little tuxedos. Yeah, I know those guys. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know what you're talking about. Okay, And they're
Speaker 1: pretty cool, actually yeah, they're they're really bad with the
Speaker 1: Xbox though, that extra that extra extra? Did you get
Speaker 1: to the way from every time? Yeah? Yeah, but they
Speaker 1: are they are very Those cats are like hyper polydactive.
Speaker 1: They've got like seven toes yeah, big, like like catcher
Speaker 1: mit pause yeah yeah, I cut those nails. I know,
Speaker 1: really I get it. Yeah, okay, anyway, anyway, for the thoughts,
Speaker 1: so I just do a little little housekeeping. It wasn't Aliens.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, thank you, thank you for not saying it
Speaker 1: was the freaking Bermuda Triangle. Oh yeah, that's right. I'll
Speaker 1: do it right now. It was the Bermuda Triangle, and
Speaker 1: it wasn't the triangle and Aliens. I gotta say, I
Speaker 1: gotta say what it is. It was the Bermuda Triangle
Speaker 1: with a lead pipe in the study. Okay, I think
Speaker 1: I've seen that the sticker on the back of a car. Alright.
Speaker 1: Well's so you probably are wondering about our website. I'm
Speaker 1: sure you've been listening for years now and you still
Speaker 1: don't know where it is. I'll tell you one more time.
Speaker 1: Pay attention this time, it's thinking sideways podcast dot com
Speaker 1: and out there. We have got you know, we've got
Speaker 1: our Our episodes are out there. You can you can
Speaker 1: download from there. Um and then what else. Uh. We're
Speaker 1: also on iTunes if you want to get your episodes there,
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Speaker 1: also stream yeah, and then there's infinite other streaming services. Again,
Speaker 1: if you rate us and give us a review and
Speaker 1: try to give us a nice review and a nice rating,
Speaker 1: we like. We appreciate that more. We're also on Facebook.
Speaker 1: We have a group and a page and join the group.
Speaker 1: Don't try to friend us. We are on the Twitter
Speaker 1: where where we are thinking sideways with no g and
Speaker 1: we have a subreddit. Go, it's thinking sideways, believe it
Speaker 1: or not. There's a pattern here. Yeah, I'm deserting a
Speaker 1: pattern here. I'm waiting for one day to be like
Speaker 1: and this pineapple, Pineapple, we need to do that to
Speaker 1: to Sometimes we want to change our name. No, I
Speaker 1: don't pineapple. Yeah, email you probably want to, like, send
Speaker 1: us some fan mail, tell us how awesome we are.
Speaker 1: You know, of course you do or have a discussion
Speaker 1: about something that you want to talk about. Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: also people people to talk all the time about stuff
Speaker 1: like you know, people sometimes say, hey, you know, I was,
Speaker 1: I was, I was kind of like you know, around
Speaker 1: at that time, and I remember this about that or
Speaker 1: maybe you got this a little bit wrong or whatever,
Speaker 1: but you know whatever you want to say. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: we can have a conversation via email. We can't do
Speaker 1: it on comments, no, not really, we can't reply back.
Speaker 1: So yeah, the emails a way to do that. So
Speaker 1: our email us Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: And then lastly, if you want to support the show,
Speaker 1: We've got all kinds of ways to do that. We've
Speaker 1: got PayPal, we have got merch, We've got merch available,
Speaker 1: like what have we got T shirts, smugs, stickers, stickers
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. Yeah, trying to figure out how
Speaker 1: to get hats made currently. I'm really on a hat
Speaker 1: kick because I need I need a new good trucker
Speaker 1: hat and they're hard. Good quality hats are hard to find,
Speaker 1: and I'm working on getting somebody to make us hats.
Speaker 1: That would be awesome if you Yeah, I'll definitely wear
Speaker 1: it Thinking Sideways hat. That'd be awesome, but you don't
Speaker 1: wear it sideways. Yeah yeah, that would be actually kind
Speaker 1: of good to have a like, like two bills. There's
Speaker 1: one of the front, there's one coming out the side.
Speaker 1: Maybe I will put I will have somebody stitch on
Speaker 1: the side. Wrong spot, forehead not here or something that's
Speaker 1: not happening, not allowable, okay, yeah, wrong side forward, Okay.
Speaker 1: Last last thing. If you want to pay support the show,
Speaker 1: there's Patreon. Oh and again this is all optional. You
Speaker 1: don't need to do anything. But Patreon is just this service.
Speaker 1: It's patreon dot com slash thinking sideways, and you pledge
Speaker 1: a certain amount of money. It's a certain amount per episode,
Speaker 1: so just be aware of that. If you pledge a buck,
Speaker 1: then every time we drop an episode, you get danged
Speaker 1: a buck. And and we we also promise sometimes we
Speaker 1: dropped shorts, and we we don't actually char for the shorts.
Speaker 1: We're the opposite of a lot of people on Patreon
Speaker 1: who put a thousand things out there just to train
Speaker 1: and get as much. I mean, I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people on Patreon do like exclusive content only for
Speaker 1: paid subscribers, and we like are not about that. Like,
Speaker 1: we absolutely appreciate any kind of support you're willing to
Speaker 1: give us. But it makes a huge different. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: it does. It makes a huge difference. But we don't
Speaker 1: ever you know, we we hope that we can provide
Speaker 1: a free content to anybody, whether if you're able to
Speaker 1: support the show monetarily or not. Our our our hope
Speaker 1: was when we first started doing that, was that we
Speaker 1: could cover our basic costs. We are, you know, now
Speaker 1: we're able to do little things like there's research materials
Speaker 1: that we can pick up. When I was doing the
Speaker 1: Train deal Raymond Deal Raymond or Joe you just kind
Speaker 1: of book recently. It really it makes a huge difference
Speaker 1: for appreciate. Yeah. Yeah, we have a mailing address now, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know anybody what it is. I don't know it.
Speaker 1: So you can email us if you want to send.
Speaker 1: And we recently bought a new microphone stand, the Slavish Gold. Yeah. Yeah, whoa, whoa, whoa. Well,
Speaker 1: it gets up to a certain point. We have enough
Speaker 1: in the account. We're all going to take a trip
Speaker 1: to investigate a really bizarre mystery in Tahiti. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: we will be. Yeahs are not happening, Okay, is there
Speaker 1: anything else? Any other details? Here. We need ready to
Speaker 1: wrap this up already, So to everybody from from Thinking
Speaker 1: Sideways and also from Mr Snuggles or at least one
Speaker 1: of his descendants. Until next week, I'm just going to
Speaker 1: run aground. Oh damn it, I know,