Speaker 1: On the Beck Doll Cast, the questions asked if movies
Speaker 1: have women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends
Speaker 1: and husbands, or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef
Speaker 1: invest start changing it with the bec Del Cast. Jamie caivin,
Speaker 1: Oh what a day, What a lovely day? Witness me.
Speaker 1: It's my birthday. I'm oh, my god, I get it.
Speaker 1: I get it. I understand. What a lovely day for
Speaker 1: it to be my birthday. It's always a lovely day
Speaker 1: for it to be your birthday. Happy birthday, Thank you,
Speaker 1: I love you. What a day this is going to be.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is We're not recording this on your birthday,
Speaker 1: but I feel like it's good. We your birthday is
Speaker 1: tends to be kind of an event. Yeah. I really
Speaker 1: think that I'm a special person and really think that
Speaker 1: my birthday is a special day for everyone and not
Speaker 1: just me. Well, you're not a huge holiday person, so
Speaker 1: this is your holiday. Like it all makes sense. Um,
Speaker 1: I think I maybe I gave you or I didn't
Speaker 1: give it to you because I haven't, but a part
Speaker 1: of your birthday present the spirit channeled survivor of Titanic book,
Speaker 1: I have to give to you amongst other things that
Speaker 1: will be revealed at a later time. Happy birthday, thank you,
Speaker 1: and we're doing a special I'm I'm excited. I'm excited
Speaker 1: for this episode. I've been kind of nervous for it
Speaker 1: because anytime we go into an episode where there's like
Speaker 1: a lot of your like, there's just so much. But
Speaker 1: but I'm glad. I'm glad that we're doing this. Here,
Speaker 1: we are same, back in heaven where we live. And
Speaker 1: what a lovely day it is. Uh. This is the
Speaker 1: Bechtel Cast. My name is Caitlin Darante. My name is
Speaker 1: Jamie Loftus, and this is our podcast where we examine
Speaker 1: movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechtel Tests
Speaker 1: simply as a jumping off point for our discussion. Jamie,
Speaker 1: I need you to tell me on this lovely day, huh,
Speaker 1: what the Bechdel test is. It's your birthday. I'm happy
Speaker 1: to oblige. So. The Bechdel Test, sometimes called the Buckdel
Speaker 1: Wallace test, is a media metric created by queer cartoonist
Speaker 1: Alison Bechdel. There's many per mutations of this test, however,
Speaker 1: the one we use requires the following that therapy two
Speaker 1: characters of a marginalized gender. Sometimes sometimes my one of
Speaker 1: my signapps is collapses mid sentence. Uh, this is like
Speaker 1: our audition monologue that we do every week, right, because
Speaker 1: it's like it feels so like, it feels very rehearsed
Speaker 1: sometimes when I'm saying it, because I just like have
Speaker 1: it so committed to memory that I'm like, wait, did
Speaker 1: I like accidentally forget one of the That's It's just
Speaker 1: it's a whole thing. Every time I trip myself up
Speaker 1: because I I worry because it's so grained in my
Speaker 1: brain that I'm going to switch a word and neither
Speaker 1: of us will notice because we're just like, yep, that's
Speaker 1: the monologue. This is our tomorrow and Tomorrow and tomorrow
Speaker 1: creeps in this petty pace. Wait, what is that a
Speaker 1: reference to? I don't think that this doesn't pass the
Speaker 1: back because this is it's a Shakespeare passage. Everyone in
Speaker 1: my high school had to memorize this one Shakespeare passage
Speaker 1: Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow creeps in this petty pace
Speaker 1: to the last syllable of recorded time. I already sucked
Speaker 1: it up, and all the shakespeare heads are going to
Speaker 1: be like, you fucking do fist as as I was saying,
Speaker 1: on your birthday, no less of all days, of all days.
Speaker 1: So this also isn't coming out on my birthday, I
Speaker 1: don't think, because my birthday is a Tuesday and we
Speaker 1: always release episodes on But who knows, maybe we'll mix
Speaker 1: it up this week. I don't know. Look, you'll find
Speaker 1: out when you're listening. You'll know. And then if you're
Speaker 1: listening to it, not the day it comes out, which
Speaker 1: is probably a lot of people, you'll be like, shut up,
Speaker 1: tell us what the Bechdel cantest is. Well, it's this,
Speaker 1: here's the one we use. Now I'm really going to
Speaker 1: suck it up. We were calling. We require that we
Speaker 1: our version, you've got to have two characters of a
Speaker 1: marginalized gender with names speak to each other about something
Speaker 1: other than a man for more than two lines of dialogue.
Speaker 1: And these lines of dialogue should be narratively significant in
Speaker 1: some way, shape or form, not throw away dialogue for
Speaker 1: crying out loud and uh, you know, because of the
Speaker 1: movie we're covering, it's smooth sailing baby, not a problem.
Speaker 1: It's not a problem from the director that brought you
Speaker 1: Babe Pig in the City and Happy Feet one and two.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I found someone took it upon themselves
Speaker 1: to write a passage on scholarly journal Wikipedia of about
Speaker 1: the thematic similarities between happy Feet and mad Max Fury
Speaker 1: Road and it actually completely scans. Yeah. Well, I talked
Speaker 1: about happy Feet on blank check and I pointed out
Speaker 1: speaking of being scholarly in a very scholarly way, I
Speaker 1: pointed out some of those same similarities. So an environmental
Speaker 1: family story. Also, like Hugo Weaving plays this penguin that
Speaker 1: has this like extremist religious dogma that he's like trying
Speaker 1: to foist on to the other penguins in the penguin community,
Speaker 1: much like a Morton Joe is like foisting this extremist
Speaker 1: religious dogma. Look, there's a lot of there's a lot
Speaker 1: of similarities between Mad Max Fury Road and happy Feet,
Speaker 1: is all we're saying. I love our canonical pronunciation of
Speaker 1: happy feet, happy feet, happy feet. Uh, there's it reminds
Speaker 1: me of There's is one acting choice that Tom from
Speaker 1: Succession makes, and I believe that that's his Christian name
Speaker 1: um where every time he says he's talking about how
Speaker 1: Chiv cheated on him on on their wedding night, he says,
Speaker 1: on our wedding night. And I'm like, why is he
Speaker 1: saying it like that? But he says it like it has.
Speaker 1: He keeps saying wedding night, and it drives me. It
Speaker 1: drives me horny. I love it. Wedding night, happy feet,
Speaker 1: wedding to night, happy feet. I'm like, is that Shakespeare? No,
Speaker 1: that's maybe I am bic pentameter. No, it's not. You know,
Speaker 1: it's something though, it's something though, it's you know, I trust,
Speaker 1: I trust, I believe that it's got to be something.
Speaker 1: And today we're talking about mad Max fury Road. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we are Magic Mike and Mad Max in the same
Speaker 1: couple of I mean, we're really describing these these monosyllabic men,
Speaker 1: aren't we. Yeah, so I guess the Magical Michael version
Speaker 1: of Mad Max would be like mat madgening Maxwell. That
Speaker 1: doesn't quite work, but yeah, I guess. I guess. So. Also,
Speaker 1: Steven Soderberg loves this movie. I found so many quotes
Speaker 1: from him being like WHOA. I was like, Wow, Magic Mike,
Speaker 1: Mad Max, It's all coming together. Do you think that
Speaker 1: he loved the original Mad Max so much that he
Speaker 1: subconsciously channeled it into magic. Mike, maybe I think we
Speaker 1: should go with this theory. Okay, no one correct us.
Speaker 1: It's Caitlin's birthday. We can't be wrong today, exactly. I
Speaker 1: can be wrong. You can yell at me except that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I am infallible today. You're untouchable. You should say
Speaker 1: anything really fucked up? Alright, Caitlin. Okay. So, and and
Speaker 1: last last thing. If if you're if you've been with
Speaker 1: us since the beginning, almost six years at this point,
Speaker 1: and you're like, hey, didn't these ladies cover Mad Max
Speaker 1: at some point? Yes, we did. It was extremely early
Speaker 1: in the podcast, one of our first episodes. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: there was a couple early episodes that of about a
Speaker 1: year and a half ago, We're like, we want to
Speaker 1: redo these. We've learned so much through doing this show
Speaker 1: and just through the general evolution of society and time,
Speaker 1: and this was one of the movies we've always been
Speaker 1: wanting to redo. So it's not in your imagination, but
Speaker 1: this is the all new and improved Matt Max Fury
Speaker 1: Road episode Exactly. We are now better equipped to tackle
Speaker 1: the discussion that we want to have around this movie,
Speaker 1: especially because it has since recording that original episode. It
Speaker 1: has become one of my favorite movies of all time.
Speaker 1: Hence also why we're doing it for my birthday, and
Speaker 1: since it came out, because we covered it like about
Speaker 1: a year after it came out, I think roughly something
Speaker 1: like that, maybe yeah, because it came out in yeah,
Speaker 1: this summer of and then we recorded the episode early.
Speaker 1: It was not that long after. And now it's you know,
Speaker 1: considered for many the greatest action movie ever made. So
Speaker 1: we can talk about how the perception of the movie
Speaker 1: has some evolved as well. Certainly there's there's just there's
Speaker 1: you know, the passage of time and can I just
Speaker 1: say from s to now no notes societally, so, um,
Speaker 1: I don't think anything has really happened now we're living
Speaker 1: in the greatest timeline. Um so. So Caitlin the birthday gal,
Speaker 1: please do tell me what is your history with Mad
Speaker 1: Max Fury Road. I did see it in theaters when
Speaker 1: it came out, I think probably opening weekend. I was
Speaker 1: pretty jazzed to see it based on the trailers in
Speaker 1: the marketing and it thing, and I was blown away
Speaker 1: and have only developed a greater appreciation for it more
Speaker 1: and more as time goes on. I would say, I've
Speaker 1: seen this movie somewhere between like sixty and seventy times. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't know it was that serious. It is. It's
Speaker 1: pretty serious because it's one of those movies that I
Speaker 1: am never not in the mood to watch. So like
Speaker 1: I am just I will throw it on. It's my
Speaker 1: plane movie. So anytime I on a flight, I will
Speaker 1: watch this movie both times. So on my journey to
Speaker 1: the place and then on my journey back home. I
Speaker 1: watch it on dates all the time. Uh an emphasis
Speaker 1: on all the time, because I'm always going on dates.
Speaker 1: Having a Greg, you do go on many successful dates,
Speaker 1: and I would not call them successful, but sorry, go ahead,
Speaker 1: it's your birthday. I'm I'm I'm fluffing. I'm fluffing it's
Speaker 1: your birthday. Yes, No, I'm so good at dating. I'm
Speaker 1: so good at finding people I'm compatible with. It's an
Speaker 1: incredible phenomenon. It's you can't stop falling in love. That
Speaker 1: it is good to have go to date movies. I
Speaker 1: my no, the jinks I was gonna says, I've got
Speaker 1: to change it. I've got to grow as a person.
Speaker 1: But that's one way where I very firmly I have
Speaker 1: not that's okay, that's okay. You know, sometimes it's fine
Speaker 1: to be absolutely static. Here's in some ways it is comforting.
Speaker 1: But in that one, I would say, maybe it could
Speaker 1: it could go. Um, Caitlin, were you Did you ever
Speaker 1: watch the original Mad Max movies? Yes, so I have
Speaker 1: seen all of those, but I have no real attachment
Speaker 1: to them, especially compared to the Hatchman I feel to
Speaker 1: this movie. That was what I was curious about, because
Speaker 1: it seems like there's a few camps of fans of
Speaker 1: this franchise, some of whom are like this movie, and
Speaker 1: then some of whom are like all Max Cannon. Yeah,
Speaker 1: um no, I am not thrilled with any of the others,
Speaker 1: mainly that Mel Gibson cannot stomach watching anything he's in
Speaker 1: except for Chicken Run, which you only hear his voice.
Speaker 1: So I give it a path and it still feels bad.
Speaker 1: And it still feels bad. Um yeah, I do. I mean,
Speaker 1: there will will be talking about in plenty today, but
Speaker 1: I do think that George Miller is a very interesting
Speaker 1: case of a filmmaker who has demonstrated a lot of
Speaker 1: growth throughout his career. Although there's a lot that I
Speaker 1: learned about the protection of this movie. That sounded, uh,
Speaker 1: not great. We'll get there, yeah, for sure. Um, but
Speaker 1: it's really only this installment Fury Road that I have
Speaker 1: any attachment to, so much that I got a tattoo
Speaker 1: of the war rig that Furioso drives on my arm,
Speaker 1: and that I think concludes my relationship with this movie. Jamie,
Speaker 1: what is your history and relationship with Mad Max Fury Road? Um?
Speaker 1: I had only seen it to prepare for the first time.
Speaker 1: We did this episode about five years ago. That was
Speaker 1: the first time I saw it. Didn't like it the
Speaker 1: first time. This was in a phase of life where
Speaker 1: I was deeply against any aesthetic I perceived to be
Speaker 1: remotely steampunk. Look, I was in my early twenties. I
Speaker 1: was just I. I had a hot take. I clung
Speaker 1: to it. I don't stand by it, I will say,
Speaker 1: speaking of growth, Speaking of growth, I really I've seen
Speaker 1: this movie a couple of times in the interim, Um,
Speaker 1: I think at least once with you, but I like
Speaker 1: it more or each time I see it, I feel
Speaker 1: like it. It has. It has a lot to do
Speaker 1: with just like me understanding more about movies than I
Speaker 1: did six years ago, understanding more about feminism, than I
Speaker 1: did six years ago, understanding more about environmentalism than I
Speaker 1: did sing here, and also like having a growing appreciation
Speaker 1: for action movies. It's still not my genre. I don't
Speaker 1: think it will ever be my genre. However, I feel
Speaker 1: like I can now appreciate a well crafted, paste looking
Speaker 1: ass action movie. So I've really grown to Uh. I
Speaker 1: really love this movie. And I and I had a
Speaker 1: really daunting, slash fun time preparing for this episode. There's
Speaker 1: so much to go through, there's so much to talk about.
Speaker 1: It's very dense, but it doesn't feel dense. It's such
Speaker 1: I mean, it's I guess it's like it's so dystopian.
Speaker 1: It's a dystopian romp. It is a romp, but it
Speaker 1: is it's a serious upsetting. I think you you nailed it.
Speaker 1: It's it's not totally light yet. It is still a romp,
Speaker 1: but it is literally never not moving. That's the beauty
Speaker 1: of romps. It's a spectrum and it's very inclusive. In
Speaker 1: this essay, we will no but for real, probably for
Speaker 1: a couple of hours. So that's my history. Uh. Used
Speaker 1: to be a hater, and then I got educated and
Speaker 1: I grew up literally as how I would describe what
Speaker 1: happened that warms my heart? Is it my favorite George
Speaker 1: Miller movie? It is not. That is still Babe, but
Speaker 1: this is a close second because Happy Feet is one
Speaker 1: we I think we've maybe talked about this in our
Speaker 1: Babe episode which is on the Matreon, and I think
Speaker 1: it's quite a good episode. You did an incredible segment
Speaker 1: on how movie animals are treated in that episode. But
Speaker 1: in any case, Happy Feet is one of those movies
Speaker 1: that I know I have seen at least three times,
Speaker 1: and I could not tell you a single thing that
Speaker 1: happens in the movie. I have the same issue with
Speaker 1: a lot of Wes Anderson movies where I'm like, I
Speaker 1: remember how it looks, I remember how I was feeling,
Speaker 1: couldn't tell you what happened. I could try to tell you,
Speaker 1: and this isn't the time or place, because I've seen
Speaker 1: it a couple of times to prepare for the blank
Speaker 1: Check episode I did. And I think I'm in the
Speaker 1: minority because I think that movie absolutely sucks shit. No,
Speaker 1: I think that people didn't. I don't think that there
Speaker 1: it was like nominated for Academy Awards like I think
Speaker 1: it was like, but people responded to it well like audiences.
Speaker 1: Was it well reviewed? It was well reviewed? Bizarre? I mean,
Speaker 1: I understand why kids, my my. Anyways, you know what, ultimately,
Speaker 1: if Happy Feet hadn't performed while the box office in critically,
Speaker 1: we wouldn't have Mad Max Fury Road, now, would we?
Speaker 1: Or so I read is true? Yeah? So you know,
Speaker 1: no matter where you fall on the Happy Feet criticism enjoyment,
Speaker 1: o'met or um, you gotta hand it, you gotta foot
Speaker 1: it to the Happy Feet because if that boring ass
Speaker 1: movie I can't remember with Elijah Wood Penguin, am I correct? Correct? Correct?
Speaker 1: You know, then we wouldn't have this awesome movie we're
Speaker 1: talking about today. True? Should we start talking about it? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Let me do the recap, shall I? Let's do it.
Speaker 1: So we hear some sound bites at the very beginning
Speaker 1: about water and fossil fuel shortages. We hear about wars
Speaker 1: that have happened as a result. We hear about like
Speaker 1: nuclear skirmish. We see a barren wasteland, and then we
Speaker 1: meet Max Rockatanski played by Tom Hardy. We get some
Speaker 1: voice over from him in which he says that the
Speaker 1: only thing he cares about is survival. Max is then
Speaker 1: pursued by war boys who capture him and take him
Speaker 1: to this place called the Citadel, which is ruled by
Speaker 1: and Morton Joe played by Hugh keys Burn. He is
Speaker 1: this tyrannical leader who controls access to people's food and
Speaker 1: water in the Citadel. Right. He has a bunch of
Speaker 1: people working for him, many of whom are his offspring Others.
Speaker 1: On the Wikipedia page someone it might not be true
Speaker 1: by the time you listen to this episode, but someone
Speaker 1: keeps referring to one of the sons as his large
Speaker 1: adult son um. Would that be Rectus erectus. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: Rectus erectus is repeatedly referred to as a large adult
Speaker 1: son and uh an accurate description of the character. It
Speaker 1: is hard to tell because of how they're at this.
Speaker 1: They're stylized. You're like, which which son is which? It's confusing, sure,
Speaker 1: but that's the point that. Yeah. Others are people that
Speaker 1: he has either enslaved or manipulated via this religious ideology
Speaker 1: where a Morton Joe has convinced them that he is
Speaker 1: their redeemer and they will ride with him eternal on
Speaker 1: the highways of Valhalla. It is all I mean, and
Speaker 1: I do I do appreciate the use of Like any
Speaker 1: time there's like Norse mythology popping up, you're like, mmmm,
Speaker 1: this is probably not a character I'm going to end
Speaker 1: up rooting for, which is an interesting story convention that
Speaker 1: pops up all the time. Yeah. Then we meet Furiosa,
Speaker 1: played by Charlie's Thearren. She seems to be pretty high
Speaker 1: up in a Morton Joe's ranks. She drives a war
Speaker 1: rig which she boards to head to Gastown and the
Speaker 1: Bullet Farm, to neighboring communities that barter and trade with
Speaker 1: the Citadel. We will soon find out that they have
Speaker 1: similar tyrannical warmongering leadership. As Furiosa is driving, she veers
Speaker 1: off course. We are not sure why at first, but
Speaker 1: then we realized that in her war rig, furio Set
Speaker 1: has Morton Joe's wives a k a. Women who he
Speaker 1: has enslaved and who he assaults in order to bear
Speaker 1: him healthy offspring, and Furiosa is attempting to rescue these
Speaker 1: women and escape once and for all, and they are
Speaker 1: headed to somewhere called the Green Place. When Morton Joe
Speaker 1: discovers this, he sends out a bunch of his war
Speaker 1: boys in their vehicles to chase after and catch Furiosa
Speaker 1: and bring the wives back again. I just love the
Speaker 1: simple turn of phrase that is war boys, because that's
Speaker 1: how I would describe them if I didn't know what
Speaker 1: they were called. And that is just what they're called.
Speaker 1: That it's just what they're called. Yes, this movie is
Speaker 1: perhaps not subtle, no, but but you know that. But
Speaker 1: that's how we why we go to action movies. We
Speaker 1: don't go to action movies for the subtlety. I go
Speaker 1: to Babe for subtlety. And I kind of mean that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So one such war boy is Nuts, played by Nicholas Holt,
Speaker 1: who Max has been rigged up to as Nux is
Speaker 1: blood bag because a lot of the war boys are
Speaker 1: dying from radiation poisoning and they need regular blood transfusions. Right,
Speaker 1: So you immediately see how characters of all genders are
Speaker 1: reduced to the basic functions of their body by and
Speaker 1: Morton Joe at all, Right, exactly, So Nucks wanting to
Speaker 1: participate in this chase to catch Furiosa, he takes Max
Speaker 1: along with him in this pursuit. Uh. Then we get
Speaker 1: the first big chase of the movie, where Furiosa manages
Speaker 1: to lose a Morton Joe and his war party in
Speaker 1: a sandstorm, but afterward Max finds her and the other women,
Speaker 1: the wives who are splendid and her played by Rosie
Speaker 1: Huntington's Whiteley. Okay, transformers. Oh that's the only other thing
Speaker 1: I know. She wasn't got it yep capable played by
Speaker 1: Riley Kyo, who I've seen this movie a bazillion times
Speaker 1: and when I was watching Zola to prep for that episode,
Speaker 1: did not realize it was the same actor. I mean,
Speaker 1: the power of a red Die job cannot be understated.
Speaker 1: I think she's great in this movie, too. Agree, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think all the all the wives are
Speaker 1: are very talented for sure. We've also got Toast the
Speaker 1: Knowing played by Zoe Kravitz. We've got name Cheeto, the
Speaker 1: fragile played by Courtney Eaton, and we've got name and
Speaker 1: we've got the Dag played by Abby Lee. So when
Speaker 1: Max comes upon them, he and Furious to fight, and
Speaker 1: Max attempts to hijack Furious as war rig and leave
Speaker 1: all of the women to be captured by a Morton Joe,
Speaker 1: but Furiosa has kill switches enabled on the rig, so
Speaker 1: Max cannot drive away, and she bargains with him, and
Speaker 1: then they all set off together, with Furiosa driving but
Speaker 1: Max holding them all hostage. Then Furiosa drives to this
Speaker 1: canyon where she has bartered for safe passage through, but
Speaker 1: a Morton Joe has caught back up to them, along
Speaker 1: with the people eater of gas Town and the bullet
Speaker 1: farmer from You'll never guess this the Bullet Farm. I
Speaker 1: do appreciate. Yeah, again, just with the simplicity of the names.
Speaker 1: It's helpful. There's a lot of characters, and I just
Speaker 1: like how he names them by what they do or
Speaker 1: sort of how you would kind of describe what you
Speaker 1: think they might do. Right, It's helpful. It is so
Speaker 1: wait quick question, Yeah, is it Nicholas Holt that you
Speaker 1: have a huge crush on? I do have an enormous
Speaker 1: crush on Nicholas Holt, is true, Okay, I was just
Speaker 1: checking in about that. Thank you for confirming and taking
Speaker 1: away love a little aside where we simply cannot pass
Speaker 1: the Bectel test. Look, we're no one's asking life to
Speaker 1: pass the Actel test, although it, you know, could be
Speaker 1: it would probably be a generally better experience life, but um,
Speaker 1: you know, it's a quick detour to be horny about
Speaker 1: Nicholas Holt, no further questions. I also didn't realize that
Speaker 1: Nux is Nicholas Holt, because I mean, it's a it's
Speaker 1: a really good performance, but it could be any person
Speaker 1: in there. A lot of his recognizable features are they're
Speaker 1: all kind of like buff looking slenderman bob a Duke types.
Speaker 1: The war Yeah, yeah, yeah, the war Boys are Yeah,
Speaker 1: just to pack a slenderman Zimbaba Dukes. Yes. Okay. So
Speaker 1: with these three war parties in hot pursuit, everything goes
Speaker 1: wrong in this like situation where Furious is trying to
Speaker 1: barter for safe passage. There's another big chase. This one
Speaker 1: is my favorite one of the movie, by the way,
Speaker 1: during and after which Max and Furiosa go from being
Speaker 1: enemies where he is holding her hostage. Two allies who
Speaker 1: are working together who are slowly realizing that they have
Speaker 1: not too dissimilar backstory. Sure. Also during this chase, Angered
Speaker 1: is killed or maybe at this point just fatally wounded,
Speaker 1: which slows down and morton Joe for a while because
Speaker 1: she was his favorite and she also had a nearly
Speaker 1: full term pregnancy and he is concerned about the baby surviving.
Speaker 1: So this allows Furioso, Max and the rest of the
Speaker 1: wives to get away and they drive onward toward the
Speaker 1: green Place. Meanwhile, Capable discovers nuts on the rig. He's
Speaker 1: having a crisis. The two of them become friends, and
Speaker 1: he switches sides and becomes an ally too. Furiosa and friends.
Speaker 1: I would watch that. I would watch that children's show
Speaker 1: that's spin off. Yes. Meanwhile and Morton, Joe and the
Speaker 1: war parties are not far behind again, and they're all
Speaker 1: driving through this like marshy swampy area. Everyone is getting stuck.
Speaker 1: Our friends get unstuck with Nux's help, and they continue
Speaker 1: onward and eventually they come upon the Volvelini, this band
Speaker 1: of women who live in the middle of the desert.
Speaker 1: It's the clan not a very subtle nation. I was like,
Speaker 1: are they saying Volvolini and it's it's volvoly It does
Speaker 1: sound like it's vagina pasta that is being described for me.
Speaker 1: For me, it sounded like a plate full of vagina. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't disagree. They are also known as the Many Mothers.
Speaker 1: They are the clan that Furiosa used to be a
Speaker 1: part of until she was kidnapped, stolen, and taken to
Speaker 1: the citadel. They tell Furiosa that the green place no
Speaker 1: longer exists. Earth had become to sour, the water became poison,
Speaker 1: nothing would grow, so they had to get out of there.
Speaker 1: Not a relatable thing at all there are, I mean yeah,
Speaker 1: and each time you watch this movie, you're just like, wof,
Speaker 1: had you told me that in six years? Perhaps not
Speaker 1: the aesthetic, but the water wars. They're a common baby
Speaker 1: people and maybe I need to stop doing this, or
Speaker 1: maybe I need to do it more. But anytime someone where,
Speaker 1: anytime someone refers to how things might be in like
Speaker 1: twenty or thirty years from now, I'm like, yeah, that's plausible,
Speaker 1: assuming we're not all killing each other during the water Wars.
Speaker 1: And then they're like oh um uh yep, a little
Speaker 1: bit nervous. But now people are like, oh no, do
Speaker 1: you have information? So that is I think a feasible reality.
Speaker 1: I think now more than ever, keep plugging the water wars.
Speaker 1: People are gonna love to hear you say I told
Speaker 1: you so all the time water Wars are on, and
Speaker 1: then they'll shoot me in my face and then and
Speaker 1: then steal my water. Yeah. I mean if if this
Speaker 1: Australian documentary is do we believe Yes, it's very possible. Okay,
Speaker 1: Furious to learning about the Green Place no longer existing
Speaker 1: is absolutely devastating to her, especially because there's now no
Speaker 1: place that she can kind of find this redemption she
Speaker 1: was looking for in terms of like bringing these women
Speaker 1: to safety and just having a place where they can
Speaker 1: stay and survive. And then Max is like, well, wait
Speaker 1: a minute, what if we go back to the citadel
Speaker 1: and take control while it's undefended. Sorry, I'm gonna let
Speaker 1: that loud motorcycle pass Martin Joe. So they turn around
Speaker 1: and charge back towards the citadel and Morton Joe realizes
Speaker 1: what they're doing, so he goes after them again. There's
Speaker 1: one last, you know, big act three climactic chase. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of ups and downs. We've got Joe trying
Speaker 1: to abduct the wives. Furious so gets stabbed, but then
Speaker 1: she crawls onto with Morton Joe's vehicle and rips his
Speaker 1: face off. Oh is that a And and speaking of
Speaker 1: face off, if you head of urture Matreon this one,
Speaker 1: there's gonna be some faces coming off. Look big month
Speaker 1: for no face. This is the right and no face
Speaker 1: because no face in spirited way. This is no face
Speaker 1: may wild, Oh God, the best of luck to future
Speaker 1: us trying to observe this a second time. It's gonna
Speaker 1: be all to be original horror movies. Although did you
Speaker 1: notice there Roku originals? I think Roku Originals. I'll put
Speaker 1: this on wax. I think Roku Originals is trying to
Speaker 1: is trying to do something, because that that new weird
Speaker 1: al movie starring Daniel Radcliffe is a Roku original, is it?
Speaker 1: I did not realize that. I didn't realize they had
Speaker 1: two nickels to rub together. Turns out they've got Harry
Speaker 1: Potter money wild um okay, So Furious pulls a face
Speaker 1: off Parentheses, starring Nicolas Cage and John Travolta. She rips
Speaker 1: and morton Joe's face off, but she's also very badly injured.
Speaker 1: So Max gives her a blood transfusion and he's like,
Speaker 1: by the way, my name is Max. And then she's
Speaker 1: able to get right back up on her happy feet,
Speaker 1: and she's looking like a babe. She's looking like a babe,
Speaker 1: and she's back in this. She's in the City Dell
Speaker 1: on her happy feet, happy and another George Miller movie, wait,
Speaker 1: the other one, and the Witches of Eastwick. I just
Speaker 1: got the Wives of Eastwick with her Oh my word, wow,
Speaker 1: is Lorenzo's oil at George Lorenzo's oil? Yeah? What does
Speaker 1: that mean? I don't need to know. It's fine, let's
Speaker 1: never talk about it again. Okay, not my business. Which
Speaker 1: is a east Wick though? Check out that episode on
Speaker 1: our Matreon. Everyone. Yeah, we have Actually we're kind of
Speaker 1: like almost Miller completionists, wow in a way, minus Lorenzo's oil. Okay,
Speaker 1: So Max is like, my name is Max because earlier
Speaker 1: he refused no ship. And then they arrive at the citadel,
Speaker 1: they gain control of it, the implication being Furiosa is
Speaker 1: the new leader. They unleash water, so the unleash the crack. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the people now have access to the water. And then
Speaker 1: Max SLINKs away because he's a lone ranger or whatever,
Speaker 1: and that is how the movie ends. So let's take
Speaker 1: a quick break and will come back to discuss, and
Speaker 1: we're back. Where would you like to begin? Uh? We
Speaker 1: I know we both have truly absurd amount of notes
Speaker 1: and things to go through. Where where would you like
Speaker 1: to begin? My birthday friend, thank you so much. I
Speaker 1: would like to start with I don't know if I
Speaker 1: want to start with what I really appreciate about the
Speaker 1: movie or what missteps I think the movie makes, because
Speaker 1: there are certainly some of those. Yes, there certainly are
Speaker 1: and I and there, I mean, I guess let's start there,
Speaker 1: because I think that that list, uh, while there's plenty
Speaker 1: to talk about, is generally shorter. So I found some
Speaker 1: writing about this. But one thing that stood out to
Speaker 1: me the first time I saw this movie and still
Speaker 1: does now is um because this is such broad storytelling, uh.
Speaker 1: And I find it frustrating because it's like George Miller
Speaker 1: finds so many ways to subvert a lot of common
Speaker 1: action tropes and stock character assumptions in this movie. But
Speaker 1: I do think he uses um atypical bodies to indicate
Speaker 1: evil or lack of morality quite a lot in yes movie. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And it's it's a complicated discussion because disability is treated
Speaker 1: differently or atypical bodies are treated differently based on the character. Yes,
Speaker 1: because there is a lot of disability visibility in this movie,
Speaker 1: but it is used in different ways. So on one hand,
Speaker 1: you have Furiosa, the protagonist of the movie. She has
Speaker 1: a physical disability. Her I think left arm has been
Speaker 1: amputatd below the elbow. She uses a mechanical arm, and
Speaker 1: attention is drawn to this, but not in a way
Speaker 1: that's ever like she's disabled and she's so bitter about it,
Speaker 1: the way that disabled characters are often treated in media.
Speaker 1: It's just a part of her character. She's presented in
Speaker 1: the movie as being extremely physically competent. She's a strong fighter,
Speaker 1: she's a skilled marks person, and her disability is never
Speaker 1: shown as impeding her skills in any way. Right, And
Speaker 1: we also see her with and without the mechanical arm. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: And it's never like it's never commented on or drawn
Speaker 1: attention to positive or negative. Like, it's just neutral. This
Speaker 1: is just an aspect of her character. We are given
Speaker 1: no information about it other than just seeing it visually.
Speaker 1: We don't know any kind of backstory regarding this. But
Speaker 1: it's just presented as one of the many aspects of
Speaker 1: her character in a way that to me felt like
Speaker 1: it had a normalizing effect, which I think is one
Speaker 1: of the goals when it comes to representing disability in movies.
Speaker 1: But then you have a character like and Morton Joe
Speaker 1: who is covered in tumors, presumably having radiation poisoning. He
Speaker 1: also uses breathing apparatus, and his disability is used to
Speaker 1: make him seem like a more formidable opponent, especially like
Speaker 1: in the way that the mask that he uses just
Speaker 1: like aesthetically makes him seem scarier. Yeah, I mean, and
Speaker 1: it's as with a lot of these issues in the movie.
Speaker 1: It's it very much has to do with framing and
Speaker 1: music and like how these atypical qualities are introduced to you,
Speaker 1: because it's very I mean, it's like, there couldn't be
Speaker 1: a more villain intro than showing a morton Joe's body
Speaker 1: at the at the opening right to the movie. It's
Speaker 1: very very clear how you're supposed to feel about him.
Speaker 1: It's like movie shorthand for like, look how grotesque he is.
Speaker 1: Obviously he's the villain. Look at this breathing apparatus he uses,
Speaker 1: and I guess maybe you could make the argument that, like,
Speaker 1: of course this type of tyrannical dictator would wear something
Speaker 1: to make him seem more intimidating, because his mask is
Speaker 1: this sort of grotesque, exaggerated thing with like huge teeth
Speaker 1: that looks like an animal skull. But because there's such
Speaker 1: a long history of this specific thing in media of
Speaker 1: disability being used to make a villain seem more intimidating
Speaker 1: or scarier or more unattractive, this choice just feels extremely
Speaker 1: pointed and completely unnecessary. Yeah, and like beneath what the
Speaker 1: movie generally tends to be as well. Right, And then
Speaker 1: like I remember talking about this on our Casino Royal
Speaker 1: episode where our guest Cannie Smobily brought up that villains
Speaker 1: are often given asthma or some other type of like breathing,
Speaker 1: and I was like, of course, Darth fade Arth and
Speaker 1: I was born in it. Isn't that another Tom Hardy character? Bain? Yeah, Bain,
Speaker 1: I never I don't know Bain's name. I just go
Speaker 1: I was born on it. And people know what I'm
Speaker 1: talking about. Tom Hardy is so uh just exhausting to
Speaker 1: hear about any anecdote with him. You're just like I
Speaker 1: am annoyed and asleep. But boy, you can't take that
Speaker 1: line read from him, Kenya. You can't take uh, you
Speaker 1: can't take the Bain line, and you can't take my
Speaker 1: favorite Tom Hardy moment. And then I mean, I know
Speaker 1: we are going to discuss him, but I just not
Speaker 1: I mean whatever method not necessary, okay, which we'll get
Speaker 1: to because Charlie Sarron had just a great moment for like, uh,
Speaker 1: stop making my life difficult. Um, But I do I
Speaker 1: do really like his line read of like suggesting we
Speaker 1: go back the way we came. Like that's you know,
Speaker 1: he was born in it, baby. There's one thing I
Speaker 1: know about Tom Hardy. He's born in IT. And I
Speaker 1: will say, not only do I not mind him, I
Speaker 1: would even go so far as to say I like
Speaker 1: Tom Hardy. I may regret saying this at a later date,
Speaker 1: but for now I'm cool with Tom Hardy. Generally, he's fine.
Speaker 1: I just have a general general dislike of method actors
Speaker 1: and the stories you tend to hear. He's definitely not
Speaker 1: the worst of the method actors, but it does sound
Speaker 1: like he has made the lives of his co stars
Speaker 1: very unpleasant at different times in his career. Um. And
Speaker 1: of course, when we say Tom Hardy was born into IT,
Speaker 1: we mean that he was born into a wealthy arts family.
Speaker 1: He was born in it, um, and that's why he
Speaker 1: gets to be a professional actor. He was born and
Speaker 1: it did. I realized that his dad's name is Chips
Speaker 1: Hardy question mark Chips plural, Yeah, like the ones in
Speaker 1: the Bags Chips Partney. Anyways, Um, back to this discussion. Okay,
Speaker 1: So there's another layer of this where Morton Joe and
Speaker 1: one of his sons Rictus Erectus a k a. His
Speaker 1: large adult son who also uses an oxygen tank to
Speaker 1: help him breathe. Both of their breathing apparatuses are used
Speaker 1: to either kill or injure those characters in some way,
Speaker 1: where Furiosa rips Joe's mask off and also his face
Speaker 1: off starring Nicolas Cage and John Travolta heard of it,
Speaker 1: and Max uses Rictus Erectus's oxygen tank to beat him
Speaker 1: in the face. So it's just another layer of like
Speaker 1: not only our disabilities being used to further villainize these villains,
Speaker 1: but then also the apparatus they use because of their
Speaker 1: disability is then used against them violently, which feels especially pointed.
Speaker 1: So there's that. Um, there are other characters like the
Speaker 1: people Eader you know has severe inflammation in his feet.
Speaker 1: I think that and his obesity are his traits that
Speaker 1: are intended to make him seem grotesque and more villainous.
Speaker 1: Then you see a lot of disability in the people
Speaker 1: who live of in the citadel. Some are citizens who
Speaker 1: I think you can assume survived nuclear war, some are
Speaker 1: probably just dealing with malnutrition. It mostly feels like these
Speaker 1: characters are just used as a part of the world building,
Speaker 1: which because we know nothing about them and they're just
Speaker 1: sort of scenery, it feels like pointed set dressing. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Sort of similar is the character of Corpus Colossus played
Speaker 1: by Quentin Kenahan, who is one of the Morton Joe's sons.
Speaker 1: We do not learn anything about that character, and just
Speaker 1: in general, none of these disabled characters or characters with
Speaker 1: atypical bodies are given any focus in this story. All
Speaker 1: of the major characters, with the exception of Furiosa and
Speaker 1: you could argue Knucks, who is also affected by radiation poisoning,
Speaker 1: All the rest of the main characters that we are
Speaker 1: rooting for are able bodied. They are very attractive by
Speaker 1: Western beauty standards, and even I would argue Furiosa and
Speaker 1: Nuts are kind of able to pass as able bodied,
Speaker 1: especially compared to the characters like Morton Joe and the
Speaker 1: people Eater, where again their disabilities are are used to
Speaker 1: further villainize them or its characters who we learn nothing about,
Speaker 1: which I do also feel has to do at least
Speaker 1: in part with how the characters are framed, where Furiosa,
Speaker 1: like Furious, has a mechanical arm, but it's not brought
Speaker 1: to your attention explicitly all the time, in the way
Speaker 1: that when a villain has a disability, your eye is
Speaker 1: constantly being very very intentionally drawn to it. Yea. And
Speaker 1: of course, of these main characters like Furiosa, Nux and Morton,
Speaker 1: Joe and the People Leader, they are played by actors
Speaker 1: who are not disabled. So that's something that we come
Speaker 1: upon again and again. Yeah, not great, not great at all,
Speaker 1: simply not great. Sort of related to the discussion of bodies.
Speaker 1: One of the things that it took me a while
Speaker 1: for this to click for me, and I'm honestly embarrassed
Speaker 1: about how long it took. But so the women, the
Speaker 1: quote unquote wives that Furiosa is trying to bring to safety,
Speaker 1: are all very traditionally attractive by Western beauty standards. That
Speaker 1: didn't take. That's not the thing that took me a
Speaker 1: while to figure out that I obviously noticed quite obvious. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's very very obvious. Zoe crab is there, so we
Speaker 1: like several professional models are among the people cast in
Speaker 1: those roles. The thing that I was like, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: So we see a group of women at the Citadel
Speaker 1: who are again used for the very kind of like
Speaker 1: basic function of like bodily function. They're they're hooked up
Speaker 1: to breast pumps. They're basically treated like milk cows. And
Speaker 1: they are all fat women who I think Western beauty
Speaker 1: standards would consider not attractive. And again, with the way
Speaker 1: that the camera is framing and drawing your eye, it
Speaker 1: seems like the movie is not pushing against that in
Speaker 1: any way. Right. Yeah, So the thing that I was like,
Speaker 1: what the fuck FURIOUSA doesn't try to save them, Like
Speaker 1: for unknown reasons, what the hell? Like, were they not
Speaker 1: hot enough to save? Were they not considered? What's the
Speaker 1: deal with that? Why were they not among the women
Speaker 1: that God? I mean, because there, you know, I always
Speaker 1: want to get furious that the benefit of the doubt.
Speaker 1: She makes it seem she makes it seem as if
Speaker 1: she's done stuff like this before. Perhaps that is a
Speaker 1: separate trip. We're also told that the wives explicitly asked
Speaker 1: her to help them do this. She didn't take them.
Speaker 1: They begged her to go, says Miss Giddy. Yeah, but yeah,
Speaker 1: I also picked up on that as well, where it's again,
Speaker 1: most of the characters, or many of the characters who
Speaker 1: are not you know, classically Western beauty standard slim and
Speaker 1: and look a very particular way like they are treated
Speaker 1: as said dressing, and that is very much Yeah, how
Speaker 1: how those characters are presented. Yeah, I just I would
Speaker 1: have liked a version of this story where even if
Speaker 1: it was the wives, there's gotta be a better name
Speaker 1: for them. But even if it was their idea for
Speaker 1: Furious to take them away from the citadel, couldn't Furious
Speaker 1: to be like, hey, hey, you guys in like the
Speaker 1: milking room, I'm I'm going on a trip. I'm saving
Speaker 1: some people want to come come on. Yeah, At very
Speaker 1: least I guess that they, they along with the rest
Speaker 1: of the citadel, are are liberated at the end of
Speaker 1: the flim We do see another shot of them at
Speaker 1: the end. Yes, they are, they are freed, but I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: the larger point here is that there are no fat
Speaker 1: characters who are heroes who we are rooting for exactly,
Speaker 1: which is just kind of another way in which this
Speaker 1: very broad movie does not push back on very well
Speaker 1: worn movie media stereotypes in a way that would have
Speaker 1: been so simple not to like that true, Like, there's
Speaker 1: no reason that one of the I don't know what else,
Speaker 1: one of the his wives, but they are being sex trafficked.
Speaker 1: I mean, what one of the what should we let's
Speaker 1: let's come up with something right now. One of the
Speaker 1: women in beige, the women, the women in gauze, Yeah,
Speaker 1: one of the I mean one of the there there's
Speaker 1: no reason one of the gauzy gauzy women, Um, couldn't
Speaker 1: couldn't have been a fat woman. There's just there's just
Speaker 1: simply no reason. Yeah, there's It's it's interesting because, yeah,
Speaker 1: this movie is less than ten years old, but already
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, I mean, based on how we are
Speaker 1: needing to discuss it a second time, you can already
Speaker 1: you can still pick up on things that were dated
Speaker 1: at that time, that probably were not commented on extensively
Speaker 1: at the time. But it says there's been so much
Speaker 1: written about this movie when it came out, but also
Speaker 1: just over the years. It's interesting to kind of watch
Speaker 1: how people's views on how bodies are treated in this movie.
Speaker 1: I wanted to quickly go back to the Tom Hearty
Speaker 1: thing because there is have you read about the confrontation
Speaker 1: between him and Charlie's barren, not extensively, so please feel
Speaker 1: free to fill me in. Okay, so this is not
Speaker 1: I mean, I didn't know very much about the production
Speaker 1: of this movie. It sounded like an absolutely hellacious shoot
Speaker 1: that went on for like nine months in the desert.
Speaker 1: Riley Keo got hypothermia. George Miller says, there was a
Speaker 1: there's two oral history pieces I'd read about this movie.
Speaker 1: One came out in one came out earlier this year
Speaker 1: New York Times and I think Vanity Fair respectively. But
Speaker 1: in the New York Times one. Yeah, the actors, it
Speaker 1: is kind of interesting. I feel like you, I'm trying
Speaker 1: to think of other I mean, I guess that you
Speaker 1: could use a Titanic parable here too, because literally hypothermia,
Speaker 1: or I guess in Kate Win's was a case pneumonia.
Speaker 1: But you know, a movie that was extremely difficult to shoot,
Speaker 1: that sounds like it was absolute torture for the actors
Speaker 1: at different points that later on, because the movie was
Speaker 1: a huge success and was a classic, they're kind of
Speaker 1: like Yeah, that wasn't great, But I'm glad the movie
Speaker 1: was a hit, you know, like a little but but
Speaker 1: you know, it sounded like this was a um a
Speaker 1: shoot where everyone slowly lost their grip on reality, cast
Speaker 1: and crew. There were several cases of actors getting sick,
Speaker 1: Like I just said, Riley Ko got hypothermia because it
Speaker 1: was so cold shooting in the desert at night. The
Speaker 1: actors are shooting in the middle of the desert, and
Speaker 1: they're not because of their costumes. They're literally in gauze
Speaker 1: for a lot of it, and so there's not a
Speaker 1: lot of protection from the elements. A lot of stories
Speaker 1: like that. And then there was also some onset tension
Speaker 1: between Charlie's Thearren and Tom Hardy, which has expanded a
Speaker 1: little more in the Vanity Fair article. So I guess
Speaker 1: that Charlie Sarren had recently had a baby when she
Speaker 1: was shooting this movie, and so she's I get she
Speaker 1: has like a reputation for being very professional, shows up
Speaker 1: on time, expects to be released at the correct time,
Speaker 1: as is her right. That's union ship. Tom Hardy is
Speaker 1: known to be a method guy, known to never show
Speaker 1: up on time, known to be a little bit combative
Speaker 1: at times, and he and Charlie's well, they simply did
Speaker 1: not like each other. And there is a story in
Speaker 1: which Charlie's Thearren was there on time, sitting in the
Speaker 1: war Wig waiting for mad Jical Michael to show up.
Speaker 1: So he's not showing up. This was day five trillion
Speaker 1: of shooting in the war Wig. At this point, the
Speaker 1: women in Gauze had openly talked about Tom Hardy in
Speaker 1: front of him. Everyone was sick of him. Then he
Speaker 1: gets there late, Charlie's Thearren yells at him in front
Speaker 1: of everybody. She says, and I quote, find the fucking
Speaker 1: cunt a hundred thousand dollars for every minute he's held
Speaker 1: up this crew. How disrespectful you are. Love that for her,
Speaker 1: and then Tom Hardy physically charges at her, and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, says what did you do to me? And
Speaker 1: like lit like physically charges at her. She felt the
Speaker 1: need to request a producer for protection for the remainder
Speaker 1: of the shoot because things got so tense between the
Speaker 1: two of them. It sounds like they have since reconciled.
Speaker 1: But I guess make of that story what you will,
Speaker 1: But I don't think Tom Hardy comes off particularly well
Speaker 1: in It's certainly not and I take back what I
Speaker 1: said about him methin actors truly. I mean, I just
Speaker 1: I don't know my crush. Will Poulter said it best
Speaker 1: when he said something like, I don't like it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what it was a good quote. We should look it
Speaker 1: up and let's find it. I'm because I love quoting,
Speaker 1: as you know, I'm always happy to google Will Poulter.
Speaker 1: It's easy for me to do. Oh he said, it's
Speaker 1: quote an excuse for inappropriate behavior unquote. So that's that. Um.
Speaker 1: Should we take a quick break and then come back
Speaker 1: and talk some more. Yeah, let's take a quick break
Speaker 1: and we're back. We are back. Where would you like
Speaker 1: to go from here at Caitlin, Oh, my goodness. I
Speaker 1: would like to talk about how the movie handles race,
Speaker 1: which is another thing that is not particularly good, y'all.
Speaker 1: This has been discussed before. We're not really pointing out
Speaker 1: anything new, but for the sake of a complete episode exactly.
Speaker 1: The movie largely centers white people, which has been pointed
Speaker 1: out as being especially strange in this context of like
Speaker 1: the world that this movie exists within. I want to
Speaker 1: pull a quote from and then also shout out a
Speaker 1: book which is a series of four different essays, all
Speaker 1: written by scholars I heard of them. The book is
Speaker 1: entitled Furious Feminisms Alternate Routes on mad Max Fury Road.
Speaker 1: There is a quote I will pull from the essay
Speaker 1: entitled just a Warrior at the End of the World
Speaker 1: by Barbaraker. This brighter put it better than I think
Speaker 1: I could. So quote Max's story, like so many in
Speaker 1: dystopian fiction, begs the question why do only white people
Speaker 1: survive the apocalypse? The absence of indigenous bodies, indeed of
Speaker 1: people of color generally throughout all four films, meaning all
Speaker 1: four of the Mad Max films reflect the white supremacists
Speaker 1: arc of settler colonialism in Australia. The presumed geography of
Speaker 1: the film and elsewhere and further is a narrative that
Speaker 1: seemingly relies on gender, but is always already raised as
Speaker 1: only certain bodies are visible, only certain bodies are active,
Speaker 1: only certain bodies are worthy of survival after the end
Speaker 1: of the world end quote. This is not to say
Speaker 1: that there are no people of color in the movie
Speaker 1: and in the main cast, because of course you have
Speaker 1: Zoey Kravitz. You also have the character of Cheetoh the
Speaker 1: Fragile who is played by Courtney Eaton, who is Maori
Speaker 1: and Cook Islander. Also shout out to the Ali Naughty
Speaker 1: Test because this character passes the Ali Naughty Test. This
Speaker 1: test examines representation of Indigenous women in media. In order
Speaker 1: to pass, a character must be an Indigenous or Aboriginal
Speaker 1: woman who is a main character. She must not fall
Speaker 1: in love with a white man. And she is not
Speaker 1: raped or murdered at any point in the story. And
Speaker 1: according to the actor Courtney Eaton, Cheeto is the only
Speaker 1: one of the wives who was not assaulted by Morton,
Speaker 1: Joe or anyone else. So, okay, that's good, that's good
Speaker 1: to know. We'll we'll get to this. I was very
Speaker 1: fascinated at how those actors got to develop their own
Speaker 1: character's history and story and that kind of collaborative process.
Speaker 1: But we'll get there. But but yes, I am I'm
Speaker 1: happy to here that that Cheeto passes the Ali Naty Test.
Speaker 1: I do wish that characters that passed the Alien Nati
Speaker 1: Test were more prominent in the story. She certainly has
Speaker 1: important moments in the story, but she's you know, I
Speaker 1: think kind of one of the less prominent of the
Speaker 1: of the women in Gauze and when you are just
Speaker 1: sort of like isolating screen time and just kind of
Speaker 1: like narrative significance, Definitely Max and Furiosa are the two
Speaker 1: most prominent characters. They share a dual protagonist situation. All
Speaker 1: this to say that the majority of the characters that
Speaker 1: we are rooting for are white characters. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: our to the two lead characters or I know that.
Speaker 1: God I've read so much of like actually Max is
Speaker 1: a deuteragamist and I'm just like, okay, with all due respect,
Speaker 1: shut the funk up, Um, I don't want to hear it.
Speaker 1: But yes, there are two are two leading characters who
Speaker 1: were supposed to I mean, the two people on the
Speaker 1: fucking poster are sis white movie stars. And thank you
Speaker 1: for thank you for sharing that quote. Because but now
Speaker 1: we've covered um several I think Australian movies where where
Speaker 1: this issue has been brought up? Um, what shall we
Speaker 1: address next? So I wanted to just this is another
Speaker 1: production note, but since it came up via learning a
Speaker 1: little bit about Courtney Eaton's Um character backstory, something I
Speaker 1: thought was quite interesting was and again just like an
Speaker 1: interesting showing of growth in a director over time. Is
Speaker 1: that George Miller brought in a consultant to help. It
Speaker 1: seems like primarily Charlie Scarron and the women in Gauze
Speaker 1: developed their characters. I don't know if the uh the
Speaker 1: VOLI I was gonna say, VOLVIONI So there you go,
Speaker 1: so like a damn Mario character. Okay, yeah, I I
Speaker 1: don't know about um the women in that area of
Speaker 1: the story. But George So, George Miller brought in Eve Ensler,
Speaker 1: who most famously wrote the Vagina Monologues, which is very
Speaker 1: dated in many ways. Uh, you know, we're not caping
Speaker 1: for the Vagina monologue, but she's she's been a feminist
Speaker 1: activist for a very long time, and he specifically requested
Speaker 1: that she be available to the actors who were playing
Speaker 1: um women who were being sex trafficked. And it experienced
Speaker 1: quite a bit of trauma because eve Ensler has a
Speaker 1: lot of experience working with survivors of sex trafficking. And
Speaker 1: I guess that that is like what she was doing
Speaker 1: when George Miller originally reached out. And so what they
Speaker 1: did in a way that I think it seems to
Speaker 1: have um Again, this is like we we cannot speak
Speaker 1: from personal experience here, but it seems to generally elevate
Speaker 1: those characters. And I feel like those characters are generally
Speaker 1: treated with respect. And you see, you know, even through
Speaker 1: the five women in gaul As, you see a bunch
Speaker 1: of different um reactions to like they're all distinct characters
Speaker 1: in a way that I think if the movie was
Speaker 1: made twenty years before probably wouldn't have been true. Um.
Speaker 1: Not only do they have different skills and strengths where
Speaker 1: and I'm not going to get the names right. So
Speaker 1: Zoe Kravitz, for example, can handle a gun like she
Speaker 1: knows her ship in that department, Riley Kio really strongly
Speaker 1: wants to go back for Rosie Huntington Whitely. They have
Speaker 1: different opinions on what they should do with knocks like
Speaker 1: there there's constantly disagreement, and even though many of them
Speaker 1: have experienced similar kinds of abuse, they are all interpreting
Speaker 1: it very very differently, which I thought was effective and
Speaker 1: um done kind of seamlessly with the story. But I
Speaker 1: wanted to share a quote from Eve and Sler in
Speaker 1: that New York Times Oral History just to give some
Speaker 1: insight into how they did it, so, she says, quote,
Speaker 1: it was really surprising for me. George would send me
Speaker 1: pieces of the script for feedback, and we began to
Speaker 1: get into a dialogue about the women who were going
Speaker 1: to play these sex slaves and how they would know
Speaker 1: what that lived experience was. Eventually he invited me to Namibia,
Speaker 1: which is where the movie was shot, to spend time
Speaker 1: with them in workshops, and my contribution was really to
Speaker 1: help those actresses become confident in that world. I think
Speaker 1: it was a really radical thing that he asked me
Speaker 1: to do that unquote. Um, I'm generally inclined to agree.
Speaker 1: And it seems like the actors got a lot out
Speaker 1: of it. Uh. They were asked to write their own backstories,
Speaker 1: essentially write letters in character to their abusers. I mean,
Speaker 1: it just seemed like a very immersive way of of
Speaker 1: building characters. And I do appreciate when a male OH
Speaker 1: tour such as George Miller knows when he's out of
Speaker 1: his depth and brings someone in who is not out
Speaker 1: of their depth. And I'm sure that those actors are
Speaker 1: more comfortable talking to Eve Ensler than they would be
Speaker 1: talking to George Miller about this topic. Um, So I
Speaker 1: just thought that was a good creative choice, whereas um,
Speaker 1: really Kio being left vulnerable enough to get hypothermia was
Speaker 1: perhaps not as good. Yeah, the shoot of this movie
Speaker 1: just sounded absolutely fucking wild, and you can tell by
Speaker 1: watching it because so many of the so many I mean,
Speaker 1: they're on location. It's practical effects in a desert in winter,
Speaker 1: sand blowing and everyone's faces and being exposed to the elements.
Speaker 1: And I mean, I don't even mean to be too
Speaker 1: hard on George Miller specifically with that. I mean the
Speaker 1: buckstocks with him because he's a director. But but like,
Speaker 1: nine months in the fucking desert with a gigantic crew
Speaker 1: and you're all doing practical effects of some of the
Speaker 1: wildest shit I've ever seen in my life. It's a
Speaker 1: miracle that everyone lived, um, which is also what one
Speaker 1: of the things that Steven Soderberg said. He's like, how
Speaker 1: did a hundred people not die? Right? So, so not
Speaker 1: to you know, getting hypothermia on at work is horrible,
Speaker 1: but given the scale of the movie, shocking that everyone survived. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I read that a stuntman suffered a broken leg on
Speaker 1: this movie. Hopefully he got workman's comp I know, I
Speaker 1: hope he got that workman's comp million. Baby. I hope
Speaker 1: he's I hope he's doing well. That is God, stunt
Speaker 1: work is so terrifying. Yes, okay, so I did. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I wanted to just kind of shout out the rare
Speaker 1: male filmmaker, knowing when he's out of his depth, it
Speaker 1: shouldn't be impressive, but it is. But it kind of
Speaker 1: is to the point where even even Sler was like,
Speaker 1: I was also shocked he wanted to do to do that,
Speaker 1: and I like, I think we talked about this in
Speaker 1: the Babe episode. Perhaps I don't remember, but a woman
Speaker 1: edited this movie. George Miller's partner, Margaret six Cell, edited
Speaker 1: this movie. I think we've brought up in the show
Speaker 1: a couple of different times that women editing a movie
Speaker 1: of this scale is again quite a big deal, and
Speaker 1: she wanted an oscar. I was gonna say, the editing
Speaker 1: is absolutely incredible. Yeah, it's absolutely it's I also didn't
Speaker 1: reading about the production of this movie was so like
Speaker 1: I didn't get really excited like into it because you're
Speaker 1: just like, holy shit, any epic You're just like this
Speaker 1: is how how where they like didn't have the budget
Speaker 1: to shoot the scenes at the Citadel, and so she
Speaker 1: edited most of the movie with nothing at the beginning
Speaker 1: or end like that sounds so awful, like for her, like,
Speaker 1: that's so stressful. Yeah, I think they had to go
Speaker 1: back and do reshoots, and yeah, the production went way
Speaker 1: over budget and you know all the things that you
Speaker 1: would expect when you watch the movie. The movie didn't
Speaker 1: technically make money after like all the stuff incurred. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: So when I had one last behind the scenes thing
Speaker 1: I wanted to draw to that, I think we'll hopefully
Speaker 1: transition into a bigger discussion question mark, let's see, and
Speaker 1: that is the costume design of this movie. Uh, it
Speaker 1: was You're headed by Jenny Beavan, who also spoke in
Speaker 1: this oral history, and it sounds like what I what
Speaker 1: I thought was really interesting about it is that it
Speaker 1: sounds as if the character designs and the costume designs
Speaker 1: since this movie went, you know, was first conceptualized in
Speaker 1: seven like before Zoe Kravitz existed on this physical plane,
Speaker 1: what Furious As character was going to look like it
Speaker 1: changed quite a bit and again was like collaborative with
Speaker 1: the actors. So Jenny Beavan says, quote, I am not
Speaker 1: into fashion wild thing for a costume designer to say
Speaker 1: I love it. I also had that thought as I
Speaker 1: wrote that quote. I am not into fashion and I
Speaker 1: don't particularly care what people look like. The clothes have
Speaker 1: to come out of the stories they tell, since she
Speaker 1: travels long distances, furious and needed very practical clothing. And
Speaker 1: when I met with Charlie's that was one of the
Speaker 1: things we talked about that and what on earth should
Speaker 1: she would she do with her hair? So, because it
Speaker 1: is Charlie's there own's idea to be the baldest woman
Speaker 1: in charge, which is the episode where we started talking
Speaker 1: about that, I believe it is true. Yeah, that's uh,
Speaker 1: one of the things we we did lose our I
Speaker 1: p by removing that episode from the feed is the
Speaker 1: origin of the baldest woman in Charge. But hey, we're
Speaker 1: bringing it back. We weren't completely you know, useless in
Speaker 1: we were just mostly useless. Um. But but yeah, I
Speaker 1: thought that the talking about the costume design is an
Speaker 1: interesting discussion because I feel like I'm interested in your
Speaker 1: opinion because I think, furiosa, that's a pretty straightforward discussion.
Speaker 1: Like she is, I think dressed pretty appropriately for the
Speaker 1: work that she's doing, and she's you know, she's protected.
Speaker 1: It seems like generally like that makes sense. And then
Speaker 1: with the with the women in gauze, they're definitely like
Speaker 1: their bodies are there's more attention drawn to their bodies
Speaker 1: and it so it was tricky because I remember the
Speaker 1: first time we had this discussion, I think that maybe
Speaker 1: we kind of oversimplified it where it was like, oh,
Speaker 1: these hot models and they're wearing hot outfits. Yes. However,
Speaker 1: me is more inclined to say, like, well, in story,
Speaker 1: that does technically make sense given who was dressing them
Speaker 1: and where they were coming from. Meaning like a Morton
Speaker 1: Joe would have selected like the most trophyist wives to
Speaker 1: be his trophy wives, and yes, would have put them
Speaker 1: in these outfits. And then we also see them in
Speaker 1: chastity belts that we see them the first thing they
Speaker 1: do when they get any amount of liberation is used
Speaker 1: bolt cutters to take them off, take off the chastity belts. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I didn't really have And then when you meet
Speaker 1: the you say it again, the Volgolini, Volgali okay, Volvolini, Okay,
Speaker 1: I think I've got it now. They I think, for
Speaker 1: the most part, I mean they're basically a biker gang
Speaker 1: and they're like weather Gang and they're doing biker gang
Speaker 1: ship ganges, so that generally makes sense. I think the
Speaker 1: only character you see, the character who is known as
Speaker 1: the Valkyrie, she is nude when you first see her
Speaker 1: question mark or she's like mostly unclad and she put
Speaker 1: I don't know, it didn't particularly bother me. I don't know.
Speaker 1: The only thing that really bothers me about any of
Speaker 1: the costume design or like just kind of general character
Speaker 1: design is how do the women in Gauze never get
Speaker 1: dirtier than they are at the very beginning, considering they're like,
Speaker 1: you know, tumbling through sand and marsha is and yes,
Speaker 1: but they stay like perfectly quoft and without like smudges
Speaker 1: on their face, and that is Yeah, I think we
Speaker 1: talked about that in the first time, and yeah, I
Speaker 1: agree with you. You would think that it would I mean,
Speaker 1: continuity wise, that sounds like someone's worst nightmare. But I
Speaker 1: think in story that would have been more appropriate, which
Speaker 1: I guess kind of does bring me around too. There
Speaker 1: has been some criticism of this movie on gender essentialism.
Speaker 1: So we've discussed this on the show many many times,
Speaker 1: but it's it is a tricky discussion as it pertains
Speaker 1: to this movie because in a Morton Joe's hyper patriarchal
Speaker 1: capitalist society, the way he views women are as baby
Speaker 1: making machines when the reality is that not all women
Speaker 1: have uteruses, have wombs, can have babies. Like the definition
Speaker 1: of womanhood that Morton Joe's society cast them as is
Speaker 1: extremely it's just false. And we know that everything that
Speaker 1: Morton Joe does is deeply wrong. Where it gets confusing
Speaker 1: for me as I it's at times hard for me
Speaker 1: to understand what the movie believes, which I think is
Speaker 1: like evidenced in the fact that the again, like the
Speaker 1: characters who we are focusing on and who were rooting
Speaker 1: for and who are brought along for the journey are
Speaker 1: these Western beauty standard attractive people, and then everyone else
Speaker 1: is either a villain or just gets left out of
Speaker 1: the narrative and is only there as like world building,
Speaker 1: set dressing. But then, but then there's a lot of
Speaker 1: cool stuff that the movie is doing that subverts a
Speaker 1: lot of existing archetypes and tropes. So I've i've I've
Speaker 1: read arguments on both sides of this that. So i've
Speaker 1: i've I've read some stuff that argues that the script
Speaker 1: overly essentializes and defines, um, you know, is like baby
Speaker 1: making equals only way to be woman, which we know
Speaker 1: very well is false. But then I've also read counter
Speaker 1: arguments to that argument that are a little more recent. Interestingly, Uh,
Speaker 1: and this is yeah, I guess for our listeners, I'm
Speaker 1: like kind of synthesizing this in real time. But that
Speaker 1: argue that the movie actually does push against that essentialism
Speaker 1: in text through the women of the Volvolini. And I
Speaker 1: will say that Volvolini does not help that argument at all,
Speaker 1: especially because they're like other name is the many mothers,
Speaker 1: but also you don't see any of them as mothers,
Speaker 1: like there they don't or it's not clear. They're kind
Speaker 1: of like this utopian like it just seems like they
Speaker 1: just yeah, they they function as a family, but there doesn't.
Speaker 1: I don't know. But then the Keeper of the Seed
Speaker 1: that like it's I don't know where I land in
Speaker 1: this argument. However, Uh, the counter argument, just to present
Speaker 1: it is that the women of the Wolglini, many of
Speaker 1: whom I think most of whom are older, are not
Speaker 1: of childbearing age. If they ever were able to bear
Speaker 1: child we don't know right, who gives a ship U
Speaker 1: people alone? But but I think you know, because they
Speaker 1: are older in the eyes of Morton Joe, that makes
Speaker 1: them not useful productive members of his society. In the
Speaker 1: world of the movie. And to the women in Gauze,
Speaker 1: to mad Maximilian to fear Riosa, they are very valuable
Speaker 1: because they are valued for wisdom. They are just as capable,
Speaker 1: if not more capable warriors, and it is very clear
Speaker 1: in text that they are extremely important to the mission
Speaker 1: being a success. So it's it's certainly complicated. There are
Speaker 1: certainly ways to interpret what is presented to us differently.
Speaker 1: I see both sides, although I tend to be of
Speaker 1: the mind, not us being centrists. Um I And maybe
Speaker 1: it's just because I love this movie so much that
Speaker 1: I'm going to go to bat for it pretty hard.
Speaker 1: But sure do I love this movie so much because
Speaker 1: I think it's doing a lot of good things. That
Speaker 1: is part of it. So I want to just sort
Speaker 1: of talk about sort of just like generally speaking, here,
Speaker 1: this movie presents a world in which you know, this
Speaker 1: extremely toxic, tyrannical leader of a Morton Joe. He's obsessed
Speaker 1: with war, he's obsessed with controlling people. He owns all
Speaker 1: of the wealth. He is patriarchy, the guy, the man.
Speaker 1: He manipulates people. He sees women as property and you know,
Speaker 1: like you said, baby making machines, he sees his son.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's also interesting how he everyone
Speaker 1: is a means to an end. The gender nature of
Speaker 1: how he views women is pointed and particularly brutal. But
Speaker 1: I but I never, like, really, I don't know. I
Speaker 1: hadn't watched this movie with Bechtel Castle in like goggles
Speaker 1: on in a long time, but you see really early
Speaker 1: on that like you know, mad Max is a fucking bloodbag,
Speaker 1: like he's used for what Morton Joe thinks is valuable
Speaker 1: about District viewing him as an object as well. Right, yes,
Speaker 1: and all of these things are shown by the movie
Speaker 1: as being wrong and toxic and worth fighting against. And
Speaker 1: of course sometimes it gets a little on the nose.
Speaker 1: It's not very subtle, but you know, the intentions are
Speaker 1: clear what the film is trying to say and do.
Speaker 1: And just to have an action movie that is a
Speaker 1: critique of toxic masculinity and like hegemonic masculinity is pretty
Speaker 1: remarkable since most action movies celebrate toxic masculinity. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: that's kind of step one of what we're dealing with here,
Speaker 1: because I even though so many action movies celebrate toxic masculinity,
Speaker 1: I love the genre, but I especially love action movies
Speaker 1: with substance and interesting world building and that have something
Speaker 1: to say. So that's why I've really latched on to
Speaker 1: this one. Now, Furiosa, there are different interpretations of the
Speaker 1: kind of like Max and furious A dynamic. From a
Speaker 1: character function point of view, I consider them to be
Speaker 1: dual protagonists, and they share protagonists. Actually actually, um, I
Speaker 1: would actually call maximist, and in this essay I'll talk
Speaker 1: about why that's screwed up because it's his name in
Speaker 1: the movie. UM. Sorry, I continue, I I agree with you. So,
Speaker 1: just to come at this from a screenwriting point of view, um,
Speaker 1: not that I would ever, you know, mention a master's
Speaker 1: degree that I have in screenwriting from Boston University. Certainly
Speaker 1: not on your birthday, no less, certainly not on my birthday.
Speaker 1: But they share protagonist functions in the sense that Furiosa
Speaker 1: has the stronger motivation, the more distinct goal, which is
Speaker 1: the thing that dry it is the narrative, and the
Speaker 1: higher stakes whereas Max has the more significant character arc.
Speaker 1: You know, he goes from being this like borderline animal
Speaker 1: survival boy to someone with like human empathy. Both characters
Speaker 1: are equally active and the story is told from their
Speaker 1: point of view in pretty equal distribution. So that's why
Speaker 1: I contend that they are dual protagonists. Um, which means
Speaker 1: we have one of the protagonists in the movie being
Speaker 1: a woman, which is pretty rare for an action movie
Speaker 1: Furious especially of course, because she is one of two
Speaker 1: leading characters, is participating in the action and fighting. And
Speaker 1: again that makes sense because this is an action movie
Speaker 1: just as much as Max, more so even in the
Speaker 1: first act, because Max is restrained and chained to a
Speaker 1: car so he can't do anything for a while. There
Speaker 1: are moments where she gets to take the lead because
Speaker 1: she has more skills than him. There's that scene where
Speaker 1: she shoots the guys on the motorcycle that are coming
Speaker 1: after them because she has like better marksmanship, and also
Speaker 1: she's done this before and he hasn't. Like that's established
Speaker 1: really early on, where like she this is like not
Speaker 1: quite a day at the office for her, but like
Speaker 1: you know, I don't, she's more experienced and like he's
Speaker 1: like a cop, so he in theory has like experience
Speaker 1: shooting a gun. But like, oh no, I didn't mean
Speaker 1: like she, but I meant like in terms of knowing
Speaker 1: the war raging like that, Like she, yeah, like has
Speaker 1: more not like I feel like it's presented very early
Speaker 1: on that she has more relevant information and skills than
Speaker 1: he does for the situation they're in. But they're both
Speaker 1: very skilled, right right, right, okay, yes, yes, um right,
Speaker 1: and she just like has power over him in knowing
Speaker 1: the like code, the Da Vinci code, the unlocks, the
Speaker 1: killed switches or whatever. Do you remember that famous scene
Speaker 1: or furious Selene's over to Mad Max and she says apple,
Speaker 1: and then he goes, oh, my name's Max, so I
Speaker 1: have it in She's like he has to tell She's like,
Speaker 1: here's how to disable to kill switches. It's a p
Speaker 1: p L E. And then he goes, wow, I can't
Speaker 1: believe I read six hundre pages to get to this. So,
Speaker 1: uh yeah, And it's just I mean, just the fact
Speaker 1: that she is driving the war rig for a large
Speaker 1: chunk of the movie. I hate that that is such
Speaker 1: a big deal. But it's a big deal. That's a
Speaker 1: big deal. One of the best hand to hand combat
Speaker 1: fight scenes in an action movie that I've ever seen
Speaker 1: is that early one between Furios and Max. We have
Speaker 1: a man and a woman fighting, which, as we've discussed
Speaker 1: on the show, does not happen often. We've discussed how
Speaker 1: in a lot of action movies where like the rarer
Speaker 1: cases where a woman is allowed to participate in the action,
Speaker 1: she is often fighting other women. So to see this
Speaker 1: like very equally balanced fight between a man and a
Speaker 1: woman where they are both extremely capable, is again shouldn't
Speaker 1: be groundbreaking, but I'm like, oh my gosh, this is
Speaker 1: so cool to see. It's wild. And uh. Something else
Speaker 1: that I liked about this fight that felt a little
Speaker 1: unusual watching it this time around was I feel like
Speaker 1: you rarely see a male action protagonist fight because they're
Speaker 1: very obviously scared. Like Max is really scared in that scene,
Speaker 1: and like, I like, he's behaving brutally, but it's I
Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, a slight tip of that
Speaker 1: whatever to Tom Hardy, Like you can tell that it's
Speaker 1: like he's not doing the like hyper masculine action starting
Speaker 1: He's afraid and that is why he's fighting, And i'e
Speaker 1: like you don't. That's just not something you get from
Speaker 1: a male action hero very often. True. I'm about to
Speaker 1: go into a bunch of ways in which the female
Speaker 1: characters in this movie subvert a lot of action movie tropes.
Speaker 1: But there's a lot of stuff also that's subverted about
Speaker 1: Max's character. Like, I mean, he's, like what you said,
Speaker 1: he's got PTSD that really strongly affects him, And I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess that that's not unheard of in this genre,
Speaker 1: but to have it presented as something as scary and
Speaker 1: debilitating as it is to him, I feel like, is unusual.
Speaker 1: I think, I think so. I think also that again,
Speaker 1: him being kind of like incapacitated for the first act
Speaker 1: of the movie and not being allowed or able to
Speaker 1: participate in the fighting and action is a subversion. I
Speaker 1: think that his arc being that he learns empathy is
Speaker 1: a very interesting arc for a male action hero. I
Speaker 1: don't know, just like a lot of fascinating things to me,
Speaker 1: But not as interesting as furious a baby, not as
Speaker 1: interesting as Furiosa. So back to that hand to hand
Speaker 1: combat fight between Max and Furiosa. Also during that fight,
Speaker 1: the women in Gauze, though not trained warriors, at all,
Speaker 1: they are still participating in the action. For example, one
Speaker 1: of them tosses a weapon to Furiosa for her to
Speaker 1: use against Max. At different points they kind of rally
Speaker 1: together to either pull acts or nuts away from Furiosa. Um.
Speaker 1: There are other moments throughout the rest of the story
Speaker 1: where they the Kravitz does know how to shoot again.
Speaker 1: For yes, you know, like someone that she knows. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she knows how to like load reload a weapon. She
Speaker 1: knows how to Like she knows. And this doesn't like
Speaker 1: seem that impressive. But also like if someone's like, here's
Speaker 1: a pile of a bunch of different bullets, here's a
Speaker 1: pile of a bunch of different guns. Match the guns
Speaker 1: to the bullets. I can't. I wouldn't know where to begin. Yeah,
Speaker 1: no fucking clue there. It's it's like it's cool like there,
Speaker 1: and I forget how we view this. View this the
Speaker 1: first time around, but watching it back, you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is like having the women in Gauze. I feel like,
Speaker 1: in a less capable team's hands could either have gone
Speaker 1: super merry Sue or completely sidelined those characters in the action.
Speaker 1: But I feel like the action you get from them
Speaker 1: is significant. It's narratively impactful, and it's not like ridiculous,
Speaker 1: like they're a fucking swat team, because like that wouldn't
Speaker 1: make sense with their lived experience, right, it tracks with
Speaker 1: their background. They are able to do things like use
Speaker 1: bolt cutters, they create diversions to help them escape dangerous situations.
Speaker 1: You know, it's just like they are given opportunities to
Speaker 1: be able to do things that impact the story in
Speaker 1: ways that other action movies don't afford those opportunities to
Speaker 1: women usually. And then, like we've mentioned the team up
Speaker 1: with the Wovelini, the Many Mothers, and you know what
Speaker 1: it's reminding me of. It's reminding me of the VOLTUREI
Speaker 1: from fucking Twilight. Oh my gosh, the Italian vampire team.
Speaker 1: I was like, I was like, it sounds like Vagina pasta,
Speaker 1: but it also sounds like something else. It sounds like
Speaker 1: the Vulture led by I believed the code of Fanning.
Speaker 1: That sounds right, memory serves anyways, Sorry, that was that
Speaker 1: was bugging me. Now now I remember. I'm glad we
Speaker 1: I'm glad we worked through that. So they meet up
Speaker 1: with the Wovelini and like the number of female characters
Speaker 1: doubles or maybe even more than doubles, and then it's
Speaker 1: like they're all trained warriors in a way that makes
Speaker 1: total sense. Right, there's a lot of cool stuff happening there.
Speaker 1: And then more specifically, so I would recommend a video
Speaker 1: essay series from Innuendo Studios that was written and narrated
Speaker 1: by Ian Danskin, who is a cisman but he does
Speaker 1: make a lot of points that I agree with and
Speaker 1: and and brings a lot of insights. He does say
Speaker 1: due to ragamus quite though he does, and I will
Speaker 1: forgive him for that. Yeah, it's a good series. The
Speaker 1: videos series is called Bringing Back What's Stolen, Fury Road
Speaker 1: and the Avenging Feminine. So this video series has a
Speaker 1: lot of insight about how female characters in Fury Road
Speaker 1: compare to female characters in other action movies. Or he
Speaker 1: keeps calling them violent movies because he also introduces some
Speaker 1: examples from like horror slasher movies. UM, So if you're
Speaker 1: just kind of like using the umbrella of violent movies. Um,
Speaker 1: A lot of tropes and archetypes have emerged over the
Speaker 1: years that Fury Road tends to avoid. So I'll just
Speaker 1: kind of quickly go through this. I recommend watching the
Speaker 1: whole series, but it pointed out a lot of things
Speaker 1: that I wasn't really able to articulate very clearly. So yeah,
Speaker 1: it's very very streamlined. It's it's really good. So. One
Speaker 1: of the archetypes of female characters in action slash violent
Speaker 1: movies is the innocent um based sally when a woman
Speaker 1: is captured, damseled, brutalized to provide steaks for the male hero.
Speaker 1: We talk about this all the time. It often takes
Speaker 1: the form of a woman being captured and damseled and
Speaker 1: needing to be saved by a man. Obviously, Furiosa doesn't
Speaker 1: fall into this archetype, and neither do the wives because
Speaker 1: even though Furiosa is taking them away from a Morton
Speaker 1: Joe to safety, as we've discussed, they're not helpless. They
Speaker 1: are participating in the action. Yeah, and it was also
Speaker 1: like I thought it was a smart, subtle choice that
Speaker 1: it was their idea for it to happen in the
Speaker 1: first place, Like they weren't just like doi I want,
Speaker 1: Like they were highly motivated to get out of their situation,
Speaker 1: and they sought out someone who could help them, like huge,
Speaker 1: like literally graffiting on their walls the reasons saying like
Speaker 1: our babies will not be war lords. We are not
Speaker 1: things that whole I mean, And that's there's some I
Speaker 1: think that some of the issues we've discussed as it
Speaker 1: pertains to like gender, I feel like part of it
Speaker 1: is because there is that really strong like seizing the
Speaker 1: means of production energy to this movie, Like where for
Speaker 1: the majority of like the characters in this movie, the
Speaker 1: means of production is like reclaiming your own body, which
Speaker 1: is like you know, by liberating themselves from a morton
Speaker 1: Joe and refusing to have his children like that is
Speaker 1: their means of production. Same thing goes for like Max,
Speaker 1: Like the difference between Max being used as a blood
Speaker 1: bag for Nicholas Holt and Max giving his blood to
Speaker 1: Furious at the end is like he sees the means
Speaker 1: of his own production. It's the same thing, but the
Speaker 1: context is uh. Anyways, The next archetype that this video
Speaker 1: series identifies is they call it the Vasquez named after
Speaker 1: the character Vasquez in Aliens. Listened to that episode for
Speaker 1: our discussion on that character specifically. There's a lot going on,
Speaker 1: but it's the female action movie archetype where the woman
Speaker 1: is one of the guys and ends up embodying traits
Speaker 1: of toxic masculinity, which is again subverted in this movie
Speaker 1: because Fury Road explores a more nuanced and less binary
Speaker 1: spectrum of gender, of masculinity and femininity. That one, I mean,
Speaker 1: that was wild in that particular video section, with that
Speaker 1: super cut of all the different women protagonists that have
Speaker 1: said suck my dick. Different You're like, oh, yeah, I
Speaker 1: guess that that is a that is a thing that
Speaker 1: happens quite a bit, uh, in a certain era of
Speaker 1: but also like still kind of now anyway sometimes Yeah.
Speaker 1: One of these archetypes has been dubbed the dominatrix. Uh.
Speaker 1: This is the highly violent and also highly sexualized female character.
Speaker 1: She is often the villain or anti hero. Old school
Speaker 1: Catwoman's stuff exactly like leans into the hyper sexualization of
Speaker 1: women's bodies. I maintain that even though we see, especially
Speaker 1: the women in Gauze, they are arguably kind of scantily clad,
Speaker 1: they're not sexualized in an exploitative way. I would agree
Speaker 1: with that. You could you could make an argument against that,
Speaker 1: and I and I would listen and probably agree with
Speaker 1: some of it. But I think that there is an art.
Speaker 1: There's definitely an argument for it, but it just it's
Speaker 1: hard to describe. It doesn't feel like the movie is
Speaker 1: trying to titilate with shots of their body. I always
Speaker 1: think of the shot of like pregnant Rosie Huntington Whiteley
Speaker 1: and the Hose where you're like a still of that.
Speaker 1: I could see the argument, but presented in context, I
Speaker 1: didn't feel like it was supposed to be a titilating
Speaker 1: shot right right. The video essay points out that most
Speaker 1: other action movie directors would frame that scene in question,
Speaker 1: which is the one where Max comes upon the war
Speaker 1: rig for the first time when it's like cartoon wolf.
Speaker 1: And then it would because they're like posing each other
Speaker 1: down there, like cleaning off after this first big chase.
Speaker 1: They are drinking water, you know, all this stuff. That's
Speaker 1: when they say so fresh face. Throughout the movie, they
Speaker 1: occasionally rents off they're taking baths. That's true. Um. The
Speaker 1: video essay points out that like most other directors, and
Speaker 1: I'm especially thinking of like how Michael Bay would shoot this,
Speaker 1: but they would like shoot that scene like a wet
Speaker 1: T shirt contest. But this scene is mostly like the
Speaker 1: women at a far distance or like tight shots of
Speaker 1: their face in a way that we're not seeing like disembodied,
Speaker 1: you know, like breasts and asses and stuff like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so uh that's another subversion um. The next action movie
Speaker 1: archetype is the Mama Bear, which is typically a pretty
Speaker 1: feminine woman who will become violent in order to protect
Speaker 1: her children. Think like Ripley and Aliens. Thanks Gina Davis's
Speaker 1: character in The Long Kiss Goodnight, Um, I can't, I
Speaker 1: haven't seen it. Okay, then don't think about it. The
Speaker 1: video essay goes into detail about how Fury Road subverts
Speaker 1: this and that even though there is the idea of
Speaker 1: like motherhood presented in that, like the way, we're more
Speaker 1: rooted in our refusal to uh like right, yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it's it's more rooted in I mean and full disclosure,
Speaker 1: we are we're recording as in a big week for
Speaker 1: bodily autonomy talk. But it is like the most one
Speaker 1: of the most dystopian examples of trying to regain your
Speaker 1: bodily autonomy by refusing to have a child that you
Speaker 1: don't want that was a product of assault. Like period. Yeah, yes,
Speaker 1: bad week, bad week, that's a really bad week. The
Speaker 1: next archetype um being the final girl. This is already
Speaker 1: a familiar thing, most common in horror slash slasher movies.
Speaker 1: This video essay examines how kind of the idea of
Speaker 1: specialness and being quote not like the other girls is
Speaker 1: the thing that enables the final girl to survive, where
Speaker 1: in this movie, Fury Road subverts this by not presenting
Speaker 1: anyone as like more deserving or more special than anyone else.
Speaker 1: Although see my point again about the trophy wives being
Speaker 1: rescued but not the women who are being milked. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't think that that's universally true, but of the
Speaker 1: characters we know we are, that's generally true. And I
Speaker 1: also thought it was like, uh, just a choice that
Speaker 1: made sense in the genre. That I mean, none of
Speaker 1: the none of the we don't lose the women in gods,
Speaker 1: but there are a few of the vulture the vampires, yes,
Speaker 1: the Italian vampires that do die in in battle, and uh,
Speaker 1: and there's also plenty of war boys who die in battle. Certainly,
Speaker 1: I don't think that, I mean, we haven't really brought
Speaker 1: up nuts too much. There's not too much to talk
Speaker 1: about there. But I do think that it's interesting that
Speaker 1: he ties into this theme of redemption that the movie
Speaker 1: has that it would be it would have been very,
Speaker 1: very easy for them to just kill him, and they
Speaker 1: consider it, like the Furiosa has a knife to his
Speaker 1: throat at one point. Yeah, but but after the women
Speaker 1: in Gauze sort of talk it out a little bit
Speaker 1: and Furiosa weighs in that they I think it's Rosie
Speaker 1: Huntington Whitely who who ultimately says like, basically, this is
Speaker 1: a kid who's been indoctrinated into this fucking horrible place
Speaker 1: and sort of suggests that killing him is not the
Speaker 1: way to go, which ends up serving the story. And
Speaker 1: I like that this movie is, you know, there's like
Speaker 1: the whatever restorative justice is at play for a lot
Speaker 1: of it because even though Nuxt still dies, he like
Speaker 1: is redeemed by and and in a way that isn't
Speaker 1: like an annoying movie redemption. It's not like Adam Drivers
Speaker 1: Star Wars Redemption. You know, it's it's like it's efficient.
Speaker 1: You know that he has been indoctrinated. He makes an
Speaker 1: emotional connection with one of the women in Gas, the
Speaker 1: Riley Kio character, who I mean, it just sounds like
Speaker 1: he's basically shown mercy and like empathy as opposed to
Speaker 1: gas lighting and a fucking spray cand of the face
Speaker 1: for the first time in his life. You could argue
Speaker 1: that having only women display those qualities is pointed, but
Speaker 1: I thought it worked in the movie. But that's also
Speaker 1: an interesting arc for him to have to where like
Speaker 1: he starts out as being, you know, this product of
Speaker 1: his environment of being like extremely radicalized in this very toxic,
Speaker 1: warmongering way, and then as soon as one person shows
Speaker 1: him any amount of empathy and patience, riley Ko literally
Speaker 1: says like, oh that sucks, and he's like it blows
Speaker 1: his mind. He's like, wait, someone is it yelling at
Speaker 1: me and calling me mediocre? Don't call Nicholas whole mediocre,
Speaker 1: but yeah, Like his arc revolving around, similar to Max
Speaker 1: is like being responsive to empathy, yeah, or like having
Speaker 1: a healthier relationship with empathy. Is both of what the
Speaker 1: main male characters arcs revolve around, which is I think
Speaker 1: really interesting and cool. Um I agree. The final archetype,
Speaker 1: as discussed in this video essay, is the rape revenger,
Speaker 1: which again deals more commonly with like rape revenge horror movies,
Speaker 1: but based on the context of and like backstory of
Speaker 1: the women in Gauze it's applicable here where the general
Speaker 1: trope slash archetype presents women in a usually very exploitative
Speaker 1: way that kind of revels in the physical and or
Speaker 1: sexual violence that happens towards the women in these stories
Speaker 1: and revels in their suffering, whereas Fury Road opts not
Speaker 1: to show any of this exploitative violence and suffering. We
Speaker 1: understood that it has happened to them, but any of
Speaker 1: the violence toward women in the movie is just the
Speaker 1: women actively engaging in battle as warriors and not that
Speaker 1: kind of like exploitative violence towards women. And the video
Speaker 1: ends with a proposal of like a new and like
Speaker 1: a new future archetype that Furiosa falls into, which is
Speaker 1: called the avenging feminine, in which, uh, you know, a
Speaker 1: woman takes what is hers, she fights because it's her
Speaker 1: right to fight against men who tell her it's not
Speaker 1: her right, among other traits. Um I found the whole
Speaker 1: thing really insightful. I don't necessarily drive with every single moment,
Speaker 1: but um I found it generally it really cool. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll link it um if anyone wants to check it out.
Speaker 1: But it helped me because like it identified action movie
Speaker 1: tropes that are ascribed to female characters that I just
Speaker 1: like didn't have like the vocabulary for and stuff. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I just I found it really helpful, and I agree
Speaker 1: with most of the analysis of how Fury Road subverts
Speaker 1: those archetypes. So it's true. That's my little piece about that,
Speaker 1: and I think all of it is very cool and
Speaker 1: again largely why I love this movie so much. It's perfect.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm rictus erectus just here in it, uh, And
Speaker 1: that's my little contribution. Thank you. What a wonderful birthday
Speaker 1: gift the birthday. Yeah, I mean, Furious it is just
Speaker 1: like a fucking awesome character for for all the reasons
Speaker 1: you describe. And also I mean just a very I
Speaker 1: feel like it's fun to see a character of any
Speaker 1: gender kind of arrive fully formed, like when you meet
Speaker 1: Furious that she's highly motivated. She's one of the only
Speaker 1: characters that we meet who already has a vested interest
Speaker 1: in people who are not just herself. It's kind of
Speaker 1: her and the women and gods who care about each other. Um,
Speaker 1: and that that isn't because I feel like sometimes empathy
Speaker 1: and this isn't like the worst trope in the entire world.
Speaker 1: But it is a trope where empathy and emotional intelligence
Speaker 1: is more often attributed to women characters. It's not a
Speaker 1: trope that comes from nowhere, I would say, uh, but
Speaker 1: but it is a common trope, and I think sometimes
Speaker 1: in movies it's applied rather sloppily, where it's like women's
Speaker 1: intuition and ship like that. Sure, but with Furiosa, I mean,
Speaker 1: you get explicit context as to why she has a
Speaker 1: collective mindset and because that's how she was raised. She
Speaker 1: was raised in a feminist utopia that prioritized the collectives,
Speaker 1: so the fact that she retains those values as an
Speaker 1: adult makes total sense. But also there are moments where
Speaker 1: she does not display empathy, like the part where she's
Speaker 1: about to kill nuts. Uh. There's there's the part where
Speaker 1: she's like Rosie rolled off the war rig. We gotta
Speaker 1: keep going baby, we gotta keep going right, which is like,
Speaker 1: that's just pragmatic ship. Unfortunately for Rosie. Glad she made
Speaker 1: it exactly. But it's something so I've talked about this
Speaker 1: on the show before, but something that drives me absolutely
Speaker 1: wild about horror movies especially, and it's usually like the
Speaker 1: Final Girl, but you see this in some action movies too,
Speaker 1: and other genres. But like whoever, the most important female
Speaker 1: character of the movie is she has so much empathy
Speaker 1: that she has put in a position where she has
Speaker 1: the opportunity to badly maim and or kill the person
Speaker 1: who is trying to kill her. But because she has
Speaker 1: so much empathy, she's like, I can't do it. I can't.
Speaker 1: I mean, which, which I think in certain you know
Speaker 1: that I feel like that's super case to case, but
Speaker 1: can be super sloppy and trophy if it just seems
Speaker 1: like it's because it's because girl, girl is nice, girl
Speaker 1: has feeling right and that and that's some women are
Speaker 1: fucking heartless and you should remember that. But um, often
Speaker 1: when I see it, it's it's very infuriating in Furious
Speaker 1: curiousting because of the way it's presented. Um And in
Speaker 1: this case, we see Furiosa killing people all the time
Speaker 1: because they are actively trying to kill her. So but
Speaker 1: she kind of but but I also appreciate that she doesn't.
Speaker 1: I don't know, no, when I guess this is like
Speaker 1: part of why they're the hear like, no one is
Speaker 1: killing for fun, they're killing for survival. Um, where like
Speaker 1: I mortem Joe is killing for say his name again,
Speaker 1: Jamie Morton, bro Elan mc volvolorins, I just passed out.
Speaker 1: I just got a nose leed on the zoom call.
Speaker 1: I think you're called Knucks Knocks at one point as
Speaker 1: well Knocks l a the place I write for. Um. Look, look,
Speaker 1: they're difficult names. There's too many characters. There are a
Speaker 1: lot of characters, and they all have pretty unfamiliar names.
Speaker 1: They have very name. Okay, I've called that was on
Speaker 1: your birthday. Can't believe it. Um, I truly forget what
Speaker 1: I was talking about, but I'm sure I was in
Speaker 1: the middle of I'm sure. I mean, good job, Jamie,
Speaker 1: He's made a good point. Oh something you wanted to
Speaker 1: bring up really quick? I mean, I guess it's just
Speaker 1: like Hits Home again. It's just a scene that I
Speaker 1: had forgotten about. I hadn't seen this movie and maybe
Speaker 1: two years, and I was like, oh boy, uh when
Speaker 1: the dead baby the dead baby, there is a dead
Speaker 1: I don't really I don't have a bettel Cast Galaxy
Speaker 1: brain point to make about it, but I do. I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess that that just that like Hits Home super hard,
Speaker 1: not subtly at all. How little life is valued when
Speaker 1: it doesn't have when it doesn't specifically benefit the upper class,
Speaker 1: because no one gives a ship. If Rosie Huntington Whiteley
Speaker 1: is okay, it's like is the rawduct because they view
Speaker 1: children as products and a future war boy, you know.
Speaker 1: And so I just forgot about that scene and I
Speaker 1: find it disturbing every single time. Again another reminder of
Speaker 1: what is happening in this country right now. Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: a lot about this movie that the more time that passes,
Speaker 1: you're just like, whoa with? I mean even just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: a radicalized force of young men. You're like, I know, yeah, uh,
Speaker 1: anyways away, you know it's it's it's still fiction for now.
Speaker 1: So that's good. Yeah, did you have anything else you
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about? Not really. I just want to
Speaker 1: give a shout out to miss Giddy. I wish we
Speaker 1: just knew more about her character. Amazing line reads great.
Speaker 1: I love her tattoos. There was a scene that was
Speaker 1: shot but deleted from the movie in which Angherd's body
Speaker 1: and Miss Giddy were left to die and be eaten
Speaker 1: by crows, which I think would have been just like
Speaker 1: a very unnecessarily violent scene towards Miss Gutty specifically, that
Speaker 1: was removed. Honestly weird that it was even considered to
Speaker 1: be included in the movie. But I did not know that.
Speaker 1: That's very Yes, um so that was no good. But uh,
Speaker 1: Miss Gitty is just seems like a prime candidate for
Speaker 1: a limited series. That's a character. I would watch a
Speaker 1: whole series about the marvelous Miss Kitty. I like that.
Speaker 1: That's where you took it here, like as she does
Speaker 1: do stand out. She's a stand up comic at the Citadel,
Speaker 1: she did the Comedy Citadel. She headlines the Comedy Citadel,
Speaker 1: and I'm running my Type five at the Citadel tonight.
Speaker 1: I want to come, um just like a goofy, Like
Speaker 1: it's real hard bringing a woman in comedy, right, And
Speaker 1: she just said the fucking Citadel. Uh God, Anyway, wish
Speaker 1: I knew more about wish we knew more about her character.
Speaker 1: I think we just built out some pretty let's let's uh,
Speaker 1: let's run that past Eve Ensler. But I think that
Speaker 1: she's gonna love it. I agree, Yeah, I think that
Speaker 1: is all I had. Did you have anything else? No,
Speaker 1: that's that's that's about all I had as well. Um,
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed this movie, and I really enjoyed talking
Speaker 1: about it. I'm so glad to hear that. But here's
Speaker 1: my question, Caitlin. Does it pass a back? It does
Speaker 1: a lot. Furiously talks to the various women in Gauze.
Speaker 1: They talked to each other. They all talked to different
Speaker 1: members talked to each other. Yes, Um, I don't have
Speaker 1: a handle on what most of their names are, but
Speaker 1: I think they are given names like in the script
Speaker 1: and in the credits. They're all and stuff pretty like.
Speaker 1: I mean, I would say that they count his names
Speaker 1: because male character eors are also given like weird titles
Speaker 1: as names, like the Bullet Farmer. I would consider it
Speaker 1: to be a character's name. Sure, yeah, in the same
Speaker 1: way that yeah, the people Eater the Duf Warrior, which
Speaker 1: you gotta love the Duf Warrior. Um. I didn't love
Speaker 1: the Duf Warrior the first time around, but this time
Speaker 1: I loved the Dufei. The dufe is cool. Speaking of
Speaker 1: media tests, I wanted to call attention really quick to
Speaker 1: the furiosa test. Oh yeah, I forgot about this. This
Speaker 1: is a funny one, so obviously, so this movie provides
Speaker 1: the origin for this test. The test was proposed by
Speaker 1: Twitter user Sean M. Puckett in June a sentence who
Speaker 1: said proposed the furious a test your movie, slash game,
Speaker 1: slash book, slash play passes if it incites men's rights
Speaker 1: dipshits to boycott because what happened when this movie was released,
Speaker 1: A bunch of m r a s were like, what
Speaker 1: what is this? What's that? Well that then Alfred Bilina,
Speaker 1: who famously denounces men's rights activism, king King of the World,
Speaker 1: and you heard it here first on our show. People
Speaker 1: don't talk about that enough. I think they don't talk
Speaker 1: about it nearly enough. They don't really talk about it
Speaker 1: maybe at all. It doesn't really come up. It's sort
Speaker 1: of only just us who brings it up. But the
Speaker 1: m r a s they just threw a little fit,
Speaker 1: as they often do, when they realized what this movie
Speaker 1: was about. They deemed it feminist propaganda. They you know,
Speaker 1: demanded people boycott the movie. They still do this, But
Speaker 1: I feel like the mis was when this like this
Speaker 1: particular brand of like like masculine anchor was like they
Speaker 1: were really in their bag because like Ghostbusters came out,
Speaker 1: this came out like you're just like, oh my God.
Speaker 1: I feel like everyone had like one man in their
Speaker 1: life that was like, Oh, I didn't realize that you're
Speaker 1: the pettiest kind of person that exists. Uh yes, fascinating Anyways,
Speaker 1: what about our nipple scale though, you're the five nipples?
Speaker 1: Based on how the movie fares when examining it through
Speaker 1: an intersectional feminist lens, oh me, oh my, um okay,
Speaker 1: I think I've got I've got a number in mine,
Speaker 1: go go go off, Birthday, thank you, birthday, birthdays, first birthday,
Speaker 1: first always. I am leaning somewhere between a three and
Speaker 1: a half and a four. I might split the diff
Speaker 1: and go three point seven five. I think the way
Speaker 1: the movie treats disability and atypical bodies is unforgivable. I
Speaker 1: think that the way the movie centers whiteness and centers
Speaker 1: people who adhere to western beauty standards as being those
Speaker 1: most worthy of being rescued and escaping to safety and
Speaker 1: survival is dated and unfortunate, and there was so much
Speaker 1: more room for more meaningful inclusion. Things like that, which
Speaker 1: we've discussed that bring the rating down. But there is
Speaker 1: also so much that the movie subverts, tropes that avoids
Speaker 1: and things that it actually does actively do to push
Speaker 1: the needle forward in terms of how women especially are
Speaker 1: treated and the role that they play in an action movie.
Speaker 1: Because of that, I'm going to go with the I
Speaker 1: think at three point seven five. I'll give one to
Speaker 1: furious A, one two the women who are left behind,
Speaker 1: one to the women in Gauze, and I'll give my
Speaker 1: three quarters nipple to the voltry Ak, the Wolvelini, okay,
Speaker 1: the Ravioli. You know, we could keep going, we could
Speaker 1: keep going. Oh my god. My favorite moment in all
Speaker 1: of um history as do you ever? No, I guess no.
Speaker 1: Every time you didn't watch SpongeBob. There's a great moment
Speaker 1: where I forget what the context of it is, but
Speaker 1: someone spells Chris Squidward's name wrong and he goes squid
Speaker 1: word totally me and it's so funny because his name
Speaker 1: Squidward Tentacles, sort of like the character Tentacles in the
Speaker 1: Legend of Titanic. My favorite animated film of all time,
Speaker 1: The Blueprint. Yeah good, oh god, I love squid word. Okay, um,
Speaker 1: I'm going to give the movie. I'm gonna I'll be
Speaker 1: generous because I feel residual guilt for how irrationally hard.
Speaker 1: I was on this movie the in our first run
Speaker 1: at this episode six years ago. We're all works in
Speaker 1: progress six years ago. To be fair, Yes I was.
Speaker 1: I was twelve years old. I'm eighteen now, so I
Speaker 1: think I know a thing or two. Okay, good, I am,
Speaker 1: I'm gen Z. What can I say? Um? Well, since
Speaker 1: it's my birthday today, so I have actually aged into
Speaker 1: being a boomer. Wow, that's how that works. There there
Speaker 1: comes a day where we all become boomers selfordunately. I'm
Speaker 1: Benjamin Botton ng I'm gen Z. Uh Um, but I'll
Speaker 1: go for I totally agree with the way that this
Speaker 1: movie treats disabled bodies and atypical bodies in general. This
Speaker 1: movie's views on fatness in particular are um all extremely
Speaker 1: dated for a movie that came out less than ten
Speaker 1: years ago, which speaks to how underdeveloped those discussions are.
Speaker 1: And and also, um, you know a positive spin, how
Speaker 1: far conversations around that have come. And I would be
Speaker 1: interested because there is supposed to be a prequel with
Speaker 1: Anna Taylor Joy as young Furiosa coming out in I
Speaker 1: would be curious because George Mill has a somewhat good
Speaker 1: record on course correcting past mistakes. I wonder if that
Speaker 1: will be something that is course corrected in another installment
Speaker 1: of this franchise. We will see it curious to see um, curiosa, curiosa, honey. Uh.
Speaker 1: But yes, the the treatment of disability and race in
Speaker 1: particular are we're not good at the time and did
Speaker 1: not age well um and should always be criticized. And
Speaker 1: to this movie's credit, I do think that this movie's
Speaker 1: good reception, this movie being embraced by action fans is
Speaker 1: like a huge I would imagine. I mean, it's still
Speaker 1: kind of early to tell. Obviously, the movie came out
Speaker 1: seven years ago, but even in that time, I feel
Speaker 1: like you can trace that it's made a difference in
Speaker 1: the genre, and it's made a friends to fans of
Speaker 1: action movies of like what an action hero looks and
Speaker 1: behaves and like what they're capable of. I feel like
Speaker 1: Furiosa is like a huge kind of game changer for
Speaker 1: this genre, and it is a difficult genre to game
Speaker 1: change because of all the loaded masculinity that it's known for.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of baggage. Yeah, So for its fault
Speaker 1: of which there are many, and we've discussed them, I
Speaker 1: do think that it was a huge step forward for
Speaker 1: the genre in many ways. UM. I generally like how
Speaker 1: the women in the movie who we get to know? Um,
Speaker 1: which is the women we get to know versus a
Speaker 1: woman we don't, as we discussed, is very intentional and
Speaker 1: pointed the when we do get to know, I feel
Speaker 1: like are all given effective story arcs. I thought it
Speaker 1: was really cool that George Miller empowered his actors to
Speaker 1: develop their own characters, was open to feedback, brought in
Speaker 1: a consultant like ship. You just don't hear about male
Speaker 1: unters of this kind of magnitude doing, not giving him
Speaker 1: a fucking crown or anything. But I think it's just
Speaker 1: just another good example setting thing to have done. I
Speaker 1: think this movie is awesome. I really enjoy watching it,
Speaker 1: and UM, thank you Caitlin for first of all choosing
Speaker 1: it for your birthday episode and for bearing with me
Speaker 1: as I grew as a person and grew to appreciate it.
Speaker 1: So look more, nippies. I knew it would happen. I
Speaker 1: knew that you would undergo a significant character arc much
Speaker 1: like Max does. So not Max. I don't like Max. Um,
Speaker 1: he's my least favorite character, and you know, that there's
Speaker 1: a lot of worse characters. But anyways, I'm going to
Speaker 1: give my nepples, I mean, one to Curious, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: give one does Zoe Kravitz in the bullet Bag, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna give one to the Keeper of the Sea Needs,
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna give one to Mrs. Oh what's their name?
Speaker 1: Mrs Miss Giddy, Miss Gid Love it And that's the episode, folks.
Speaker 1: It certainly is uh you can you know, do all
Speaker 1: the stuff? Hey, you know what, since it's my birthday. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna not only suggest, but maybe even demand that
Speaker 1: you oh ship this is this is me being absolutely
Speaker 1: funked up as promised. I'm so scared right now. Would
Speaker 1: you give me a little follow on Twitter and Instagram
Speaker 1: at Caitlin Durante Because the more followers I have on
Speaker 1: social media platforms, the more validated I feel as a
Speaker 1: human being. And that is the sad state of the world.
Speaker 1: I think that that's super healthy and I feel the
Speaker 1: same way. Um, everyone follow Caitlin on every platform available.
Speaker 1: You have TikTok to, I do have TikTok and I
Speaker 1: um I have not really posted much except for a
Speaker 1: couple of Titanic related TikTok's. Although I started doing this
Speaker 1: new thing on my Instagram stories in which I recap
Speaker 1: a movie speaking as quickly as I can and including
Speaker 1: as much detail as I can in fifteen seconds or less.
Speaker 1: So I might add those to my TikTok to really,
Speaker 1: you know, because it's all about generating new content, you know. Um.
Speaker 1: She says she's a boomer, but she's sounding like a
Speaker 1: danger what M so definitely, you know whatever. I don't
Speaker 1: care about TikTok right now, but I mean ask me
Speaker 1: again in a year and I'll be like, follow me
Speaker 1: on trink talk, um, but certainly follow me on Instagram
Speaker 1: and Twitter. Also followed Jamie on those on those platforms, Hey,
Speaker 1: why don't you do that for once in your life? Um? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And then also listen to Ghost Church. That's my new
Speaker 1: show that's coming out right now. It's about it's about
Speaker 1: my my week in Cassadega, Florida and the history of
Speaker 1: American spiritualism a k. Ghost Church, as I like to
Speaker 1: call it. I'm having a lot of fun making it.
Speaker 1: It's also produced by producer at the Bendel Cast. So
Speaker 1: if you Lichterrman and why don't you, why don't you
Speaker 1: head on over and give that a lesson. We just
Speaker 1: love creating content so much, which says Instagram and Twitter
Speaker 1: elon Musk's Twitter as I like to call it now,
Speaker 1: Jamie Loftus help on Twitter, Jay christ Superstar on Instagram,
Speaker 1: and then follow the Bechtel Cast while you're on those
Speaker 1: two cursed websites. Okay, yeah, at Bechtel Cast and uh.
Speaker 1: A nice little birthday gift for me would be if
Speaker 1: you give the podcast a little rate and review, preferably
Speaker 1: a favorable one, like a you know, five nipple if
Speaker 1: you dare, if you if you hated this episode, actually
Speaker 1: please thank I'm still I'm still traumatized from the Zootopia
Speaker 1: blowback of Oh my god. They're like, oh, it's just,
Speaker 1: oh well, rabbits can't even be cops anymore, according to
Speaker 1: these broads. I'm like, oh my goodness, gracious, take a
Speaker 1: c folks. No one's listening to the episode at this point.
Speaker 1: They're like, the episode ended ten minutes ago, it's been
Speaker 1: over two hours, and we simply can't stop talking. Typical women, right,
Speaker 1: always blabbing, blabbing, blabbing. Pe pe poo pooh. Two things
Speaker 1: women love did you, and then follow our patreonic Adrian.
Speaker 1: If you want more of that hilarious star banter, that's
Speaker 1: patreon dot com, slash becktel cast. You want an episode
Speaker 1: on Babe truly, that's where you'll find it. That's where
Speaker 1: you're gonna fucking find it. Um, and we are we're
Speaker 1: doing some of Caitlin's picks on the matre and this
Speaker 1: months we're doing face slash Off and we are doing it.
Speaker 1: What's the other one? Or doing Top Gun? Not because
Speaker 1: I vouch for the movie for either of these movies.
Speaker 1: It was honestly just like, Okay, the new Top Gun
Speaker 1: movies coming out, what better time, I guess than to
Speaker 1: cover the original Top Gun. And then also I was like,
Speaker 1: what's another like big loud action, goofy action movie that
Speaker 1: we can fold into the mix? And I was like,
Speaker 1: Face Off. I think would be a lot of fun
Speaker 1: for us to be like, what the funk is this movie?
Speaker 1: Love it? So that's the plan, folks, And that's the plan.
Speaker 1: And if you don't like it, go to hell to
Speaker 1: quote um. Okay, one's let in Titanic, Well, let's get
Speaker 1: out horror or follow me internal on the highways of
Speaker 1: the see you in Valhalla everyone and go to Valhalla.
Speaker 1: Deal with Valhallaco saw the Northman. I've had enough of Valhalla.
Speaker 1: Goodbye Episode I