WEBVTT - Dr. Maija Cheung 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.480 This is me, Craig Ferguson. I'm inviting you to come 0:00:03.520 --> 0:00:05.920 and see my brand new comedy hour. Well it's actually 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:07.400 it's about an hour and a half and I don't 0:00:07.440 --> 0:00:10.000 have an opener because these guys cost money. But what 0:00:10.039 --> 0:00:13.000 I'm saying is I'll be on stage for a while. Anyway, 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:15.560 come and see me live on the Pants on Fire 0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:19.720 Tour in your region. Tickets are on sale now and 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:23.160 we'll be adding more as the tour continues throughout twenty 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:26.960 twenty five and beyond. For a full list of dates, 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:30.280 go to the Craig Ferguson show dot com. See you 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:35.000 on the road, my DearS. My name is Craig Ferguson. 0:00:35.400 --> 0:00:39.440 The name of this podcast is Joy. I talk to 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:47.159 interesting people about what brings them happiness. Today, my friends, 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:50.480 my guest on the podcast is Dr Maya Chung, who 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:55.440 is a pediatric surgeon at Yale. That's pretty impressive in itself. 0:00:55.920 --> 0:00:59.000 She is also the chief medical officer of a group 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:08.240 called kits R, which provides pediatric surgical opportunities for you know, children. 0:01:07.840 --> 0:01:10.960 That need it in areas where it's kind of difficult 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:14.600 to get. So I'm going to let you talk to 0:01:14.680 --> 0:01:17.759 her through me, and I'm going to talk to her. 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:28.720 I really like this one and she's very impressive. Enjoy. Hello, Maya, 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:29.560 how are you? 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:31.240 I'm great. Craig, how are you? 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:34.200 I'm good. Are you in Yale today? Are you in 0:01:34.280 --> 0:01:35.880 new Haven today? I am. 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:38.039 I'm just outside. Actually we're in Brandford. 0:01:39.440 --> 0:01:40.959 Now. Before we get into that, I just want to 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:42.960 talk to you a little bit about because you're you're 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:44.840 a surgeon at Yale, right. 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:47.960 Yes, I've been for many years. 0:01:47.960 --> 0:01:50.280 Actually, now I want to talk to you a little 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:52.400 bit about Yale before we talk about you and we 0:01:52.440 --> 0:01:55.000 talk about kids, oh are and we talk about surgery. 0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:59.760 Because Yale. I've done stand up shows at Yale, and 0:01:59.840 --> 0:02:02.920 I've stayed in New Haven. And the best description I 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:05.720 can give of Yale is it's Hogwarts in the middle 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:10.600 of downtown Detroit. Does that seem like a reasonable it does? 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:15.160 It seems perfect, perfect description there. It's an interesting place. 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:16.680 It's an interesting campus, for sure. 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:17.600 Yeah. 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:21.800 The campus seems very lovely and collegiate and all sorts 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:25.240 of beautiful young people walking around with scarf sown and 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:29.480 stuff like that and performing magic. But then you go 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:32.240 outside and get things get a little crackier. In New Haven. 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:34.919 I noticed a little bit more, a little bit more, 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:36.440 but more lively. You know. 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:37.960 It was one of the reasons I actually chose to 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:40.040 come here back in the day for residency, because I 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:43.480 wanted to take care of a lower resource population and 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:46.160 really be in a little more urban area, but not 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:47.919 be in New York City or Boston. 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:53.560 Now that's interesting because two things I want to ask you, 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:55.079 Why you wouldn't want to be in New York City 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:56.760 and Boston. Let me ask you why you wouldn't want 0:02:56.800 --> 0:02:58.240 to be in New York City or Boston. 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:01.799 Well, I'm from Kansas originally. 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:06.120 Not enough, Yeah, yeah, I get it. Yeah, it's a 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:10.600 little lively. So but what about why were you drawing? 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:11.640 Uh? 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:14.000 Well, I know this about you, but I'm kind of 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:17.120 leaning the witness a little bit. But why were you 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:21.160 interested in working with with lower income people? And does 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:23.880 not actually happen at Yale anyway? The people come in 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:25.360 and did they get out there? 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:28.280 Yeah, I know absolutely. Yale and one of our sites 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:32.360 in Bridgeport are really high numbers in terms of people 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:35.000 who are on some type of assistance or who are 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:40.480 maybe migrant workers, unemployed, lower income socioeconomic backgrounds. So we 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:44.760 do have a lot more than certain areas. You know, 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:48.360 I had worked with kind of lower resource populations for 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:52.120 many years when I was in medical school, and before that, 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:54.080 I spent some time abroad in the Middle East and 0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:58.240 Asia and was just really found a lot of fulfillment 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:01.320 in being able to provide care or help of any 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:05.720 kind to populations that maybe didn't have certain types of access. 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:09.080 I mean, one would presume, and we'll get onto the 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:11.760 kids who are charity in a minute, which both you 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:15.320 and my wife are involved in, but the idea of 0:04:15.360 --> 0:04:19.080 going into a lower resource population, I assume for a surgeon, 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:23.359 that would mean there's a lot of none of the 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:27.600 financy equipment that you get in Yale Hospital, right. 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:31.400 I mean, there's a very big difference, yes, between what 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:34.440 I have access to at Yale versus when I'm operating 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:39.040 and let's say Kenya or Uganda. My main clinical practice 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:41.880 right now is actually at the Veterans Hospital in West Haven, 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:45.960 and the VA hospital is also an interesting place in 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:52.039 terms of minimized resources because obviously, as a government institution, right, 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:54.919 there's a lot of a lot of restrictions and things, 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:59.640 and that population especially is one that really seeks access 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:02.320 through the VA because they don't necessarily have a lot 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:05.640 of other options. So again a population of maybe more 0:05:05.800 --> 0:05:08.760 homeless people than one would traditionally think about. 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:12.000 And what kind of surgeries that you perform and on 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:14.720 people that are the trauma surgeries? Are they you know, 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:16.560 like appendect mees, what's going on? 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:20.600 So I did training in minimally invasive surgery and bariatrics, 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:23.440 So I do a lot of belly surgery that's not cancer. 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:28.320 Is the easy way to put everything from gall letters, appendicitis, 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:31.920 different types of hernias, weightless surgery. I do a lot 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:35.560 of robotics. Actually, that was one of my specialized trainings. 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:39.920 So yeah, do you use AI in your in the robotics? 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:41.640 Now do you use that for surgery? 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:44.640 So we use AI in a couple of ways. More, 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:48.120 I think on the kind of academic side and looking 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:51.760 at metrics that AI can help us learn from what 0:05:51.800 --> 0:05:53.680 we're doing in the operating room or what other people 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:56.840 are doing in terms of kind of maximizing our efficiency 0:05:56.839 --> 0:05:58.200 with movement. Stuff like that. 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:04.040 But thanks you so much, GP GPTC take that gold ladder. 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:07.240 Yet, I'd be out of a job for sure. 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:10.200 I don't. I don't think that's coming anytime soon. But 0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:13.360 maybe it is. I don't know. I mean when you 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:18.039 when you go into a low resource population though, like say, 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:21.640 for example, I know about the charity obviously kids who 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:25.960 are and I know they have pediatric surgical sites in 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:29.800 Uganda in particular, and some of these places are in 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:33.960 rural Uganda. Is that right to say it's outside of Kampala? Yeah? 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:34.600 Absolutely? 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:38.040 So what what are you dealing with there? I mean, 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:41.600 are you able to get appropriate levels of sanitation, are 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:44.920 you able to get you know, you know, decent equipment. 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:45.800 What are you doing? 0:06:46.920 --> 0:06:49.320 It's really a spectrum. So some of the places I've 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:53.000 been you actually have minimally basive surgery laparoscopy. I was 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:55.520 teaching some of that in Kenya last year, which was 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:58.919 really phenomenal to work with the teams there. Other places 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:02.960 you might have a very minimal equipment, not the right equipment, 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:06.720 not a great opportunity to sterilize equipment for example. So 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:09.480 your reprehainst to a lot of challenges. But I'm sure 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:11.120 we'll get into this. But you know, a lot of 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:12.880 what we're doing at Kids Operating and is trying to 0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:16.560 bridge that gap so that people in world Uganda don't 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:20.120 have to be doing without and can really provide the best, 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:22.000 safest care they can to kids around the world. 0:07:22.960 --> 0:07:26.720 And what kind of I mean, like the pediatric operating 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:31.000 rooms that you're working in Uganda or in other parts 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:35.960 of low resource areas, are they what kind of surgeries 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:39.840 are you see? Are the emergency things? Are they both? 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:42.720 So there's a lot of emergency operations that are happening. 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:45.960 There's a lot of wait lists. You know, kids here 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:48.280 might get a hernia fixed in a couple of weeks 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:51.160 it might take years and a lot of other places, 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:53.960 and the impact on a child's life and a family's 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:57.120 life if that's the case, can be really devastating. We 0:07:57.200 --> 0:08:00.440 also see a lot of complex surgery, so it's amazing 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:03.360 there's so much talent and all of these other places 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:05.480 they're able. I mean, you've gone as a perfect example 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:08.720 where they've been able to step right conjoined twins, and 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:10.640 you know, we think of that as something that's so 0:08:10.800 --> 0:08:15.080 highly specialized, but the technique is there, the training is there. 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:17.880 It's really just the equipment and a little bit of 0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:21.960 probably solar power, because that's another problem operating in these places. 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:24.520 Power outages that can really make a difference. 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:29.040 I know. George Youngston, doctor George Youngston, who is a 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:31.080 friend of mine. George is one of the pioneers of 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:34.920 the work getting done out there. That George said that 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:38.000 when I first talked to him about kids who are 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:41.880 he said that cleft palate, for some reason was something 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:43.800 that a lot of people, they were dealing with a 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:46.480 lot of kids with with a cleft palate surgery they 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:47.680 were fixing. Is that true? 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:52.160 Yeah, cleft palate, club feet, and you know those are 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:54.760 things that a quick, simple surgery can be a one 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:59.800 time fix, simple on the spectrum, right, but it's really life. 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:03.559 I mean, we have case studies out of Kenya. Is 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:05.520 one place, a refugee camp that we worked and there's 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:08.360 a child there who was born with cleft feet and 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:10.520 that would have been fixed within a matter of months 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:12.800 and some simple procedures in the US or the UK. 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:16.800 His parents carried him, you know, they physically carried him 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:19.200 for years everywhere he had to go, and finally he 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:21.360 was able to get care in one of our operating rooms. 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:24.719 And now he plays on his local soccer team and 0:09:25.200 --> 0:09:26.120 runs around with them. 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:30.640 Men U Jersey on Yeah, well, I'm not sure that 0:09:30.679 --> 0:09:35.480 I'm completely a fan of his Startorial Troit team. Yeah, 0:09:35.520 --> 0:09:37.800 but I mean that's an amazing thing to me. So 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:42.680 I mean hearing about the people who are walking, because 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:46.160 I did hear stories about this, about women who were 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:50.840 carrying their babies twenty thirty, forty miles and more and 0:09:50.960 --> 0:09:55.280 physically walking through I don't know if it's jungle or 0:09:55.280 --> 0:09:59.280 what kind of area is, but walking to get to 0:09:59.559 --> 0:10:01.400 an op in room for the kids. 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:04.079 Yeah, and I mean if you think about what that 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:07.360 does to a family, also the impact on them. Sure, 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:10.439 we did a lot of studies a while ago looking 0:10:10.480 --> 0:10:14.720 at how much families had to sell, like sell cattle, 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:18.240 sell home goods, things like that to be able to 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:20.800 even make the trip. I mean that impact on a family, 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:23.400 And yeah, if it's only thirty miles, they're pretty lucky. 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:25.440 In a lot of these places, there might only be 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:28.280 one or two centers in the entire country that can, 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:31.520 you know, address their child's needs. So I think you're 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:34.480 a parent. I only have dogs, but you know the 0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:37.320 impact and the devastation that must be felt. I know 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:38.760 i'd feel that for my puppies. 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:43.599 Well, that's an interesting thing because I was going to 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:48.239 ask you about this anyway that you see some stories 0:10:48.320 --> 0:10:50.280 by the nature of the work that you're drawn to. 0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:54.280 I mean, look, pediatrics of any kind is going to 0:10:54.320 --> 0:10:58.160 break your heart, and you know it's a calling which 0:10:58.160 --> 0:11:02.600 I'm you know, is beyond me. I admire it, and 0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:06.120 I don't know if I how are you emotionally equipped 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:10.640 to deal with with the bad news diagnosis involved around children? 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:13.679 It must be devastating, Yeah, it is. 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:17.800 I think you know, as a surgeon that type a personality. 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:20.240 We like to help people. We like to see a 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:23.800 problem solve it feel like we had an impact that 0:11:23.920 --> 0:11:28.920 keeps you going. The harder things in surgery and probably 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:32.839 medicine more broadly are when you can't help. So either 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:36.240 you know, the right equipment isn't there, the tools are broken, 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:40.240 the oxygen ran out, Maybe the patient gets there too 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:43.760 late because their tumor has grown too much, or maybe 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:46.040 because the mom had to walk, you know, for two 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:49.000 days and so the child has gotten so much sicker. 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:53.920 And I think that in those moments, it's that helplessness 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:56.440 and just standing by the family where you know, you 0:11:56.480 --> 0:11:58.640 feel like if they'd just gotten there earlier, if you 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:01.800 just had to feel more, a little bit more oxygen 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:03.800 or a little bit more equipment, that maybe you'd be 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:07.280 able to have a different outcome, and it is that 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:10.600 helplessness that stays with you. But you know, ultimately that's 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:14.160 that's why we do the work we do and you know, 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:15.959 trying to fill that gap again so that no one 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:19.600 has to feel that way. But surgeons, we just we 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:22.720 have that need to see a problem, fix it. And 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:27.600 I think it's that desire to ultimately alleviate suffering and 0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:29.760 make that impact that just keeps you going even when 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:32.560 you have one one bad thing or you you know, 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:35.480 it obviously changes you, it stays with you. 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:40.359 Yeah, you learn from it. Yeah. I mean most surgeons 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:43.320 that I've met, and I've met quite a few, and 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:45.440 I know quite a few, most of them are quite 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:49.120 sporty people, which I wasn't surprised, a quite kind of 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:53.000 jocks a lot at the time. Do you are you? 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:54.720 First of all, are you a jock? Are you a 0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:56.720 sporty person? Uh? 0:12:56.800 --> 0:12:59.880 Well, I'm the wife of a baseball coach, so I think, okay, 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:04.480 my definition, I'm probably pretty sporty. Yeah, But surgery is 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:10.880 shockingly physical. We stand for hours, we twist in different ways. 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:13.640 You know. I actually her needed my back moving a 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:15.600 patient a couple of years ago and had to have 0:13:15.600 --> 0:13:20.000 surgery myself. So there's a definite you're dehydrated all day, 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:22.880 you're tired, you don't sleep that much, so there's a 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:27.439 definite physical toll. And you know, I think both kind 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:29.960 of mental health as well as physical health is really 0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:33.959 important to extend longevity of one's career. And I think 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:36.400 we're now starting to acknowledge that, which we didn't do 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:37.160 for a long time. 0:13:38.200 --> 0:13:40.719 Yeah, I was going to say the idea of acknowledging 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:43.720 the mental health impact on surge is because even if 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:46.760 even if you approach, you know, a problem in a 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:49.920 sort of slightly more engineering frame of mind, like this 0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:51.800 is a problem in the human body, I'm going to 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:57.800 I'm going to fix it or or approach it like 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:01.360 like this is a challenge for me. You know, there's 0:14:01.440 --> 0:14:04.960 got to be a point where, you know, if there's 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:08.520 a like almost like a sporting mentality in the surgeon, 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:10.600 you're going to lose. Sometimes you're going to learn how 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:11.199 to lose. 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:14.600 And it's a team, right, So yeah, like trusting in 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:18.600 my team, my nurses, my nsthesiologists, the patients trust in us, 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:23.120 the families trust in us, and sometimes you lose. You know, 0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:26.040 in sports, they watch a lot of game tape and 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:31.760 learn from maybe mistakes are also successes with robotics, that's 0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:34.960 one way for sure. We have the ability to record 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:38.160 our surgeries to watch them back if something, you know, 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:41.320 if there's a complication post operatively, we could actually review 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:43.840 that tape and see is there some mistake that we 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:46.560 made technically. And we spend a lot of time as 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:49.600 a community reviewing what we used to call morbidity and 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:53.160 mortality conferences, which we now call quality improvement, which are 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:55.840 you know, and things don't necessarily go according to plan, 0:14:56.320 --> 0:15:00.600 but taking an opportunity to really holistically examine the pathway 0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:02.760 of what happens so that we can all learn from it. 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:05.640 So I'm not just learning from, you know, my mistakes, 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:07.320 but I get to learn from my colleagues they can 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:09.680 learn from me. That way, hopefully we're not all making the. 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:12.960 Same mistakes, right, you know, repeating the same thing. I mean, 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:15.720 I think it's a smart it's a smart thing. I mean, 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:19.360 you mentioned post operative care there as well, and I 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:22.320 thought that's quite interesting because I remember talking again, talking 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:27.280 to George Johnson years ago about why don't we just 0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:29.400 fly a bunch of doctors in the g four down 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:31.480 in Uganda and fix all of these problems and then 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:34.400 they can all leave. And he said, well we can, 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:37.440 because we try that and it doesn't work because there's 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:39.280 you've got to do follow ups, right, You got to 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:40.960 you got to figure out what's going on. You have 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:43.040 to have surgeants who are there all. 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:46.920 The time absolutely first of all, to select the patients 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:49.560 and figure out who are the patients that actually need 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:53.320 care urgently or maybe who maybe need more specialized care 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:55.880 from someone who's coming in the follow ups for sure. 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:57.720 But I think you know, in the world we live 0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:01.240 in today, there's another reason why investing in the local 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:03.600 teams and supporting them to do the work is important. 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:06.000 And that's if you look at all of the conflicts. 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:09.560 So you know, kids operating room now we've installed one 0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:13.800 hundred operating rooms thirty five countries from really challenging places 0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:18.600 like the Kakuma refugee camp in Kenya, Congo, Afghanistan, Haiti 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:21.920 and Haiti is a perfect example where you know, all 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:24.920 the aid organizations left with the current conflict, a lot 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:27.520 of them don't have teams on the ground. So if 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:30.000 you were only sending in teams, you'd have a whole 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:33.480 cohort of children who wouldn't be able to get surgery. 0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:37.000 But in fact, our operating rooms Imported Prince are two 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:40.200 of the only that are still working because they're stacked 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:42.920 by local teams because what we've done is support and 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:45.720 empower them. And so that means in all of these 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:49.920 places where global aid organizations can't go, the local teams 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:52.640 still have the capacity to care for those kids and ultimately, 0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:56.640 you know, that strengthens the entire country and the country's GDP. 0:16:57.080 --> 0:16:59.080 And so there's that component as well, which I think 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:02.160 you know in today's world is even more important to recognize. 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:09.600 Hello, this is Greig Ferguson and I want to let 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:11.639 you know I have a brand new stand up comedy 0:17:11.640 --> 0:17:15.560 special out now on YouTube. It's called I'm So Happy, 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:19.240 and I would be so happy if you checked it out. 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:21.679 To watch the special, just go to my YouTube channel 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:24.840 at the Craig Ferguson Show and is this right there? 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:27.919 Just click it and play it and it's free. I 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:29.480 can't look. I'm not going to come around your house 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:30.880 and show you how to do it. If you can't 0:17:30.880 --> 0:17:32.240 do it, then you can't have it. But if you 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:38.960 can figure it out, it's yours. It's an interesting thing 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:41.400 because you talk about today's world, which is you know, 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:46.399 there are a lot of very intense and very opposing 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:49.359 political stances in all of the area, pretty much all 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:51.720 of the areas you're talking about. If you're going into 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:53.680 a war torne area, people are so mad at each 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:57.399 other that they're killing each other. So there's conflict going on. 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:02.320 How easy or difficult is it to navigate the political 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:06.240 fundraising side of things, like if you're if you're raising 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:08.800 money for kids who are which I don't think there's 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:12.679 anybody on any site of any debate would say, you know, 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:16.040 we don't want hospitals in there to look after children. Boo, 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:20.800 that's a bad thing. But everything is politicized. So how 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:22.879 do you how do you cope with it? How do 0:18:22.920 --> 0:18:23.760 you deal with it? 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:29.480 I mean it's a real challenge in certain places obviously, 0:18:30.440 --> 0:18:34.159 you know, government agendas set a lot of the dictates. 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:37.960 We have always been in a political organization and try 0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:41.760 to work wherever there's a need. Ukraine is a perfect 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:45.120 example of that. We're finishing up fund raising now for 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:48.840 six operating rooms in western Ukraine, and you know we 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:51.800 work with the local teams, the ministries of health there, 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:54.720 and we just try to focus on what you said, 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:57.720 which is taking care of kids. Ultimately, I hope most 0:18:57.760 --> 0:19:00.679 people in the world are in favor of children and 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:04.800 supporting kids getting access to care, and so we just 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:08.560 try to maintain that real laser focus and explain that 0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:12.080 what we're doing also is, you know, strengthening health systems 0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:16.200 and creating security and empowering the economies and the families 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:19.240 and all of the downstream effects that one actually has 0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:22.399 by being able to provide a child with surgery, they 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:25.439 can go back to school, their parents can work, you know, 0:19:25.440 --> 0:19:27.840 there's a lot of things. So trying to focus on 0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:33.040 the societal impact and focus away from the political one 0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:34.960 is I think what we have to do right now. 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:37.280 But it's always a challenge. 0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:40.200 Do you ever you ever find yourself losing your temper 0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:40.840 when you're there? 0:19:42.359 --> 0:19:48.159 I find myself losing my temper with well meaning but 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:49.800 poorly thought out plans. 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:56.679 Oh my god, you hate me. Why don't we just 0:19:56.720 --> 0:20:00.480 all fly down there? Are ticket? Yeah? Right? 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:03.200 I mean, as a surgeon, you don't like surprises. When 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:06.119 I go into a belly, I want to know what 0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:08.000 I'm going to find and what my plan is, and 0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:10.120 I think my patients want that plan as well. 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:14.479 Sure, but I mean well that you mentioned that if 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:16.560 you're going in like if you're in a lead low 0:20:16.640 --> 0:20:20.680 resource area, you haven't presumably you're not getting the scans 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:22.640 that you would get and Yale, you're not looking at 0:20:22.640 --> 0:20:24.760 all the you may or even get the blood work 0:20:24.840 --> 0:20:28.720 that you want, So you might really begin a surprise. 0:20:28.800 --> 0:20:31.480 It may be you know, cut and find out, right. 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:34.399 You might, although hopefully you know you're working with a 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:38.480 local team who's used to working under those limitations, So 0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:41.200 there are lessons we can learn from them about how 0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:46.000 they work up or manage with very few resources without 0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:49.600 a cat scan, for example, and implement that in a 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:52.560 safe way. I think that's really where the criticality of 0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:56.880 having local partners comes in, because they know what they're 0:20:57.000 --> 0:20:59.480 used to doing and what's worked in their own environment, 0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:01.800 and there's a lot of innovation that comes out of 0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:03.840 that as well. Right, Like, I've learned a lot of 0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:07.280 lessons about what they've done that I've put into my 0:21:07.280 --> 0:21:10.560 own practice, especially during the pandemic when we all had 0:21:11.359 --> 0:21:13.520 to really think about what the resources were that we 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:13.960 were using. 0:21:13.960 --> 0:21:17.439 Here, did I have a major impact in what you 0:21:17.440 --> 0:21:19.360 were doing? And Yale during the pandemic. Who you could 0:21:19.359 --> 0:21:20.240 see and what you could do. 0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:24.520 Yeah, a bit. So, you know, new Haven not that 0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:26.720 far from New York City, and there was a lot 0:21:26.720 --> 0:21:30.399 of overflow. I was based in Bridgeport, Connecticut, which is 0:21:30.960 --> 0:21:33.439 part way between New Haven and New York, and we 0:21:33.480 --> 0:21:35.480 had a ton of overflow. We actually had a huge 0:21:35.520 --> 0:21:39.080