1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:18,640 Speaker 1: I'm Holly Fry and I'm Tracy be Wilson. Toronto's Great 4 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: Stork Derby of the nies and nineteen thirties is often 5 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: reported in this kind of whimsical tone, and I can 6 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: understand why that happens. It features a wealthy, eccentric, highly 7 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:34,560 Speaker 1: contested will and so so many babies. Um. You'll often 8 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: see headlines that kind of make the joke that this 9 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: person that catalyzed at all was the father of more 10 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:46,559 Speaker 1: than thirty six babies, and really because he made so 11 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:49,840 Speaker 1: many people have so many babies. Um. But over the years, 12 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:52,880 Speaker 1: as the story has been told with a wink, all 13 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: of the more complicated issues that came into play, including classism, 14 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: the right to privacy, exploitation, the role of women in society, 15 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: racial superiority in eugenics, as well as reproductive rights, have 16 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: kind of been left out of the discussion. So we're 17 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: going to tackle some of that today and it is, 18 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: as you might expect, not always delightful. And I want 19 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 1: to make sure that we give a heads up that 20 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: this episode includes discussion of infant mortality and some fairly 21 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 1: insensitive handling of that subject, both in the press and 22 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:28,039 Speaker 1: in the courts. Yeah, I was well. First, when I 23 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: got the email with the episode outline at it, I 24 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: was kind of like, why is Holly's doing a baby episode? 25 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: This isn't how it normally goes. And then the longer 26 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 1: I read it, the more I was like, this is 27 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 1: this is this is just as grim as Holly tends 28 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 1: to gravitate towards youre this episode is not about Charles 29 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: vance Millar. That's the wealthy eccentric that Holly mentioned, but 30 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: to give a brief overview of his life will help 31 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: us set this situation in motion. He was born in Ontario, Canada, 32 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 1: in eighteen fifty four to a farming family. In eighteen 33 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: seventy eight, Milar finished his undergraduate degree at the University 34 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 1: of Toronto and then his next step was law school, 35 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 1: completed in eighteen eighty four, and at that point he 36 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: started a practice in Toronto, working in corporate and contract law. 37 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 1: Malar amassed a considerable fortune in his lifetime, although his 38 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: law earnings were actually only a small fraction of it. 39 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 1: He made most of his money through smart investments in 40 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 1: real estate. He owned so much stuff, but one of 41 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: those investments was a Cobalt, Ontario silver mine, which struck 42 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: a very sizeable vein after Millar had purchased into it 43 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 1: in nineteen o five. On October thirty one, ninety six, 44 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: Charlie Millar, as he was known to his friends, died 45 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: very suddenly. He was in the middle of a meeting 46 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: at his office with his lawyer, Charles Kemp, and also 47 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 1: an official of the Canadian Post Office, George Anderson. Millar 48 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: was seventy three when this happened, but he had really 49 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: seemed to be in great health. He had sprinted up 50 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 1: three flights of stairs to get to this meeting, and 51 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 1: the three men had gathered to settle a disagreement that 52 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: they had had over some technicality of the law that 53 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 1: had come up when they were just all having lunch together. 54 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: Millar was kind of a jokester, but he was also 55 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 1: really incredibly knowledgeable, and he wanted to prove to his 56 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: friends that he was right about the thing they had 57 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 1: been arguing about. So those two men got to the 58 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: office after Millar. They had not sprinted up the stairs, 59 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 1: and when they got there, he was already looking up 60 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: to information he wanted in a law book, and once 61 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: he found it, he pointed to it in the book. 62 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: He turned to show his evidence to Anderson and Kemp, 63 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 1: and then had a stroke and died a few days later. 64 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 1: He was buried near the family farm in Elmer, Ontario. 65 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 1: But that was hardly the end of his story, because 66 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: his will was just a whole can of worms. The 67 00:03:56,360 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: Millar will was a final practical joke. It opened with quote, 68 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: this will is necessarily uncommon and capricious because I have 69 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 1: no dependence or near relations, and no duty rests upon 70 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 1: me to leave any property at my death. And what 71 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: I do leave as proof of my folly in gathering 72 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: and retaining more than I required in my lifetime. Charlie Millar, 73 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 1: with no wife or kids to worry about providing for, 74 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 1: decided to just have a little fun with his legacy. 75 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 1: And this entire will was full of odd bequests. Um. 76 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 1: These are easy to find online. Each could be its 77 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:35,719 Speaker 1: own story, So we're just giving these kind of the brief. Uh. 78 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 1: He gave his vacation home in Jamaica to three people 79 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 1: who had to share it. Those three men that he 80 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: named hated each other. Um. But it turned out that 81 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 1: Millar had actually sold the property before he even died, 82 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:50,599 Speaker 1: so that clause wasn't even valid. He left stock in 83 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: O'Keeffe Brewing Company to a group of ministers who were 84 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: opposed to drinking. Similarly, he left Ontario Jockey Club shares 85 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: to people who thought betting on horse racing was immoral. 86 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: Kind of see how this went. He also made more 87 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: standard arrangements. He made a plan for money to go 88 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: to Toronto's Hospital for Sick Children and for the University 89 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: of Toronto. But clause nine of his will was a 90 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: doozy and it's set in motion an unprecedented series of events. 91 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 1: Here's how this clause read quote nine. All the rest 92 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: and residue of my property wheresoever situated, I give devise 93 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: and bequeath unto my executors and trustees named below in 94 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: trust to convert into money as they deemed advisable, and 95 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: invest all the money until the expiration of nine years 96 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 1: from my death, and then call in and convert it 97 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: all into money, and at the expiration of ten years 98 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:51,599 Speaker 1: for my death, to give it and its accumulations to 99 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: the mother who has since my death given birth in 100 00:05:55,320 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: Toronto to the greatest number of children as shown either 101 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 1: registrations under the Vital Statistics Act, if one or more 102 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: mothers have equal highest number of registrations under the said Act, 103 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:13,840 Speaker 1: to divide the said moneys and accumulations equally between them. 104 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: We don't know why he did this, but all of 105 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 1: this meant that he ended up leaving five hundred thousand 106 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: dollars to the Toronto woman who could have the most 107 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 1: babies in a decade, or women, as Tracy just said, 108 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: in the case of a time. Millar's will passed through 109 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: probate court less than six weeks after his death in 110 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:34,600 Speaker 1: early December, but it did stipulate that that contest started 111 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: with his death. So from October thirty one, ninety six, 112 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:43,599 Speaker 1: the day Millar died to October nineteen thirty six, the 113 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: Great Baby Derby, or the Great Stork Derby, as this 114 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: odd contest came to be known, was in effect. Though 115 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: there was speculation about how this whole thing was going 116 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 1: to play out, it wasn't initially a huge story. In 117 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty two, the Ontario government and had an idea 118 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 1: about what should be done with Millar's money, and it 119 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:07,919 Speaker 1: did not involve giving it. Some others Attorney General William 120 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: Price introduced a bill in March to eschieve the estate, 121 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: meaning that Millar's undistributed assets would be handed over to 122 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: the state. The plan was for the money to be 123 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: giving to the University of Toronto instead of dispersed through 124 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: this contest. This wasn't entirely out of the blue. An 125 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 1: earlier version of Millar's will had left the university the 126 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: bulk of his estate. But immediately after this bill became 127 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 1: known to the public, there was a very vocal reaction 128 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 1: against it and it was withdrawn. Prices. Reasoning for introducing 129 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: the bill was that quote the will conveyed the estate 130 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: on hazardous principle, and because it was not along the 131 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 1: lines of public policy. If this move to give the 132 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 1: money to the University of Toronto had not happened, it's 133 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 1: entirely possible that focus on the Millar will would have 134 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: died down and at least until when the contest ended. 135 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:08,239 Speaker 1: But that attempt at a streatment brought the entire matter 136 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 1: into the public sphere, and it brought up questions about 137 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 1: execution of a properly filed will and what powers the 138 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 1: government did and did not have regarding such a document, 139 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: and a person's estate, For example, what sort of precedent 140 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: would be set if the state could take possession of 141 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 1: Millar's fortune in direct opposition to his wishes. And remember 142 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: he was a lawyer. He had filed all of this properly. 143 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 1: There was no question there. There were also objections and 144 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: discussions about how unfair it would be to any participants 145 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: to stop the contest six years into a ten year timeline. 146 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 1: Some of those objections came from women's groups and some 147 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: from individual women actively pursuing the prize. There was another 148 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: event that added to the interests of the Baby Derby 149 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: and made people follow it more closely, after the kidnapping 150 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 1: and death of Charles Augustus Lindbergh Jr. Babies who were 151 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: in the spotlight in any way were considered to be 152 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: in peril. As we'll talk about shortly. There was a 153 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 1: lot of press coverage of the women involved in this contest, 154 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: and there were kidnapping threats made to a number of 155 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: Derby families. The daughter of one family was the target 156 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 1: of a failed kidnapping attempt. Some of these threats were 157 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 1: ploys to get families to step out of the competition, 158 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 1: saying that if they didn't withdraw, their children would be 159 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:31,679 Speaker 1: taken or harmed. There was also a variety of threats 160 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 1: of violence made to some of the mothers. From two on, 161 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:40,359 Speaker 1: the baby derby was a frequent news topic. The combination 162 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 1: of mostly low income participants, debates about morality, racism, and 163 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:49,559 Speaker 1: anti immigrant attitudes and just the absurdity of it all, 164 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 1: as well as some feel good articles that focused on 165 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: babies and how much people loved them, made this whole 166 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 1: thing for a kind of voyeuristic escape from depression era 167 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 1: realities in North America. In October of nineteen thirty six, 168 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 1: the des Moine Tribune ran a series of articles about 169 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 1: the derby as it reached the end of this decade 170 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: long window. One was under the title quote Stork Derby 171 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 1: is headache now. One relays just how disruptive this whole 172 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: thing had been for government officials. Writing quote, even the 173 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 1: eccentric attorney could hardly have guessed what a headache his 174 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 1: bequest would give the Ontario government. As the now world 175 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 1: famous Stork Derby moves into the last few weeks of 176 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:38,079 Speaker 1: its already hectic course, one phrase in the will, those 177 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:42,680 Speaker 1: words duly registered is giving the Honorable Harry C. Nixon, 178 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 1: Provincial secretary, plenty of sleepless nights, and as it turned out, 179 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 1: while some women were registering their children as they were born, 180 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: some of them seem to have adopted a wait and 181 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: see approach and only at the end if they thought 182 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 1: they might be contenders for the prize. Did many of 183 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: them suddenly wish to just your multiple children at once, 184 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 1: creating a huge surge of verification paperwork for Ontario's government. 185 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: And it was as that rush of paperwork mentioned above 186 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:14,199 Speaker 1: hinted at a mess to sort out. As the ten 187 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: year period of time was closing, the legal debates about 188 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: Millar's will and the rules of the contest were really 189 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:23,319 Speaker 1: just beginning. We will talk about that after we pause 190 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: for a quick sponsor break. Millar's next of kin were 191 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 1: not especially enthused about this whole thing and the thought 192 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 1: that their relatives considerable fortune which they felt entitled to, 193 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 1: was going to be paid out to a stranger. Arabella 194 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 1: West and Alexander Butcher, who were distant relatives of Millar, 195 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:53,959 Speaker 1: made the case that the baby derby claws of the 196 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 1: will should not be held up as legally valid. The 197 00:11:57,559 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: legal tact that they chose to take was that such 198 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,679 Speaker 1: a bequest was against public policy. In their minds, you 199 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 1: could not pay for babies, and encouraging women to have 200 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: all manner of babies was inciting people who should not 201 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: indiscriminately procreate, and this was absolutely racist and anti foreigner 202 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 1: at its route to make more children than anyone wanted. 203 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 1: There was also a concern that was used by people 204 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: trying to invalidate the will that had a bit more merit. 205 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 1: It probably wasn't something Millar's distant relatives were actually worried about, 206 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:33,200 Speaker 1: but questions were raised about whether or not it was 207 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: a healthy endeavor to have as many babies as possible 208 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:40,319 Speaker 1: in a limited period of time. Yeah. I don't believe 209 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 1: for a minute that they were actually worried about the 210 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 1: physical well being of any of these women, but they 211 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 1: used that as one of their arguments. Additionally, there were 212 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: aspects of this whole baby derby that had not been 213 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: spelled out in the will, and those were being hotly debated. 214 00:12:56,679 --> 00:13:00,719 Speaker 1: This whole business becomes really unsettling and sad. There were 215 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 1: calls for clear guidelines about whether stillborn children counted towards 216 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:08,960 Speaker 1: the number children born out of wedlock. Were also debated 217 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 1: as to whether or not they could be included in 218 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,200 Speaker 1: the tally, and if a child was born and then 219 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: died in infancy, did it count or not. On top 220 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 1: of that, the rules regarding registration of births needed to 221 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 1: be made clear. Per the will, the babies had to 222 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:29,719 Speaker 1: be registered under the Vital Statistics Act. Children born at 223 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 1: home might not be entered into the record right away. 224 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 1: Whether or not late registrations well after a baby's birth 225 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:38,559 Speaker 1: could count was a matter that had to be decided. 226 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: But there were also indications that the women who were 227 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 1: most likely to win the prize, we're all pretty willing 228 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: to work something out out of court to split the money. 229 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: Several of the front runners had agreed to the idea 230 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:55,719 Speaker 1: even before the competition ended, but that feeling of kind 231 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:59,599 Speaker 1: of solidarity was not shared by all, and legal advisors 232 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,680 Speaker 1: were against it. They claimed that the entire will could 233 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: once again be litigated if the courts let the competitors 234 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 1: end the derby on their own terms. In a New 235 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 1: York Times article from February seven titled Toronto baby race 236 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: upheld on appeal, the Ontario Court of Appeals was reported 237 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: as having ruled that the ninth clause in Millar's will 238 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 1: was indeed valid that upholded a previous ruling by the 239 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: Supreme Court of Ontario. This article went on to quote 240 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: Chief Justice Newton W. Rowell's statement on the decision, reading, quote, 241 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 1: it appears that the question of public policy is one 242 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: for the court. Evidence may not be received as to 243 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: public policy, although it might be received as to the 244 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: facts upon which the question is based. Coming to the 245 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 1: question of validity, the first question is does the word 246 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 1: children in the paragraph of the will include illegitimate children? 247 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 1: The Court is of the opinion that the word did 248 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: not include illegit himant children. The word children prima facie 249 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 1: means legitimate children. It was argued that because the gift 250 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 1: was to mother's this rule did not apply. The Court 251 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 1: is of the opinion that it does apply. Chief Justice 252 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 1: Raoul went on to comment on the fact that Perl 253 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 1: Millar's own wording the will was quote uncommon and capricious, 254 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 1: and that the deceased was quote entitled to dispose of 255 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: most of his property as he saw fit, provided he 256 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: did not violate the law. Justice also pointed out that 257 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 1: the relatives contesting the will were not close to Millar, 258 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 1: it was obvious that he had not intended for them 259 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: to have any part of his estate. With the appeals 260 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 1: court upholding the validity of the contest, the next legal 261 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 1: hurdle was, of course, figuring out exactly who the winner was. 262 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: That process started in earnest in February eight, well over 263 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 1: a year after the contest decade had ended. There had 264 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 1: been hearings about determining the winner just weeks after Millar's 265 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: window expired, and that had involved fifteen claims for various 266 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 1: families and two claims filed by relatives who wanted it 267 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 1: all thrown out. There were other contenders, but they had 268 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: like no question marks or issues with their numbers because 269 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: all of their paperwork was in order. But all of 270 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 1: this came down to the decision of Justice W. E. 271 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 1: Middleton in nineteen thirty eight. He had been involved since 272 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty six, and then he watched the case and 273 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: his rulings escalate up the judicial court system, only to 274 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: have it land right back in his lap when it 275 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: came time to determine the winner. The women involved in 276 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: the competition had all undergone the immense physical labor of 277 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 1: birthing and caring for so many children. This was a 278 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: huge burden from a health standpoint. Several of the women 279 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 1: involved had needed blood transfusions and other medical interventions near 280 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: the end of the competition. Their bodies were really paying 281 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 1: a price. But by the time they got to the 282 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 1: point where judges were determining who the winner would be, 283 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 1: a lot of them had also just been dragged through 284 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: a whole lot of misery in the public sphere. The 285 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 1: second any mother had emerged as a possible participant, she 286 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: had become the focus of the press. The women who 287 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 1: were competing ranged from very very poor to kind of 288 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 1: working class, and their entire lives were divulged by journalists 289 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 1: to an eager and extremely judgmental readership. This is just 290 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:31,160 Speaker 1: not surprising to me, based on the same thing happening today. 291 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 1: Over the course of the Derby and intensifying as the 292 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 1: court cases were hashing out, the Danny Mall papers and 293 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 1: government offices were flooded with opinion letters about Millar's contest, 294 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 1: and most of them were very unkind regarding the families involved. 295 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: They hinted at how lascivious, immoral, and stupid many members 296 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:54,959 Speaker 1: of the public believed them to be, as well as 297 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: how they thought the whole contest was the same one 298 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 1: woman wrote to on Areo Premier Mitchell Hepburn quote, would 299 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: you like to tell the women from me that they 300 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,119 Speaker 1: are fools and the men that there is no epithet 301 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: foul or strong enough to describe them? And I hope 302 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:14,879 Speaker 1: they will have to pace the bedroom floors persistently for 303 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,680 Speaker 1: months to come, so that the babies get their own 304 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: back for being the victims of avarice. The first newspaper 305 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:26,639 Speaker 1: article about possible contenders didn't actually come out until several 306 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: years into the competition. That was on October eighth nine, 307 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:33,440 Speaker 1: and that day The Toronto Star ran a story about 308 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:38,400 Speaker 1: two women, Mrs Grace Bagnetto and Mrs Brown. Grace Bagnetto 309 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 1: had twenty children, ten of whom we're living, five of 310 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: whom were born within the millar Will date parameters. At 311 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,920 Speaker 1: the time of the article. Mrs Brown had twenty six children, 312 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 1: thirteen of which were surviving at the time of the article, 313 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 1: and six of which she claimed qualified for the competition. 314 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 1: But unlike Mrs Brown, Grace Bagnetto maintained what seemed like 315 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: a constant state of pregnancy and delivery, so over time 316 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: she remained in the public eye, whereas Brown fell out 317 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 1: of the coverage This story evidence the social unrest and 318 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 1: the outright racism of the time, with a quote from 319 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:17,720 Speaker 1: Mr Brown regarding the competition, quote, if a few more 320 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: Canadians would be themselves and produce a decent sized family, 321 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 1: the country would not be overrun by foreigners. Mrs Brown 322 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 1: similarly stated that quote, I can't let any Italian get 323 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: away with that leadership stuff. I'm a Canadian and so 324 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: is my husband. We're honest to gosh died in the wool. 325 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 1: Native born Canadians of the fifth generation and think six 326 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 1: babies in five years ought to lead. This was the 327 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,399 Speaker 1: kind of rhetoric that was reported throughout the remainder of 328 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 1: the contest, both by various people that were quoted from 329 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 1: reporters to just journalists making their own assertions. Foreigners who 330 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:59,880 Speaker 1: had a lot of babies were characterized as irresponsible. White family, 331 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 1: on the other hand, were doing their part to ensure 332 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 1: the strength of Canada's population. This whole problem was no 333 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: doubt fomented by the large number of immigrants who had 334 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: moved to Canada in the first two decades of the 335 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 1: twentieth century, Because simultaneously, the birth rate had been in 336 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 1: steady decline since the mid nineteenth century, and there was 337 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: this whole really irrational fear and panic that the white 338 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:26,120 Speaker 1: middle class was going to be supplanted by a population 339 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:30,640 Speaker 1: of first and second generation Canadians born to immigrant parents. 340 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 1: Grace Bagnado, for example, was born in Canada to Italian 341 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 1: immigrant parents and was married to an Italian immigrant in 342 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: an arranged marriage when she was just twelve. By the 343 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 1: time she became known as a Derby contender, she worked 344 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: full time as a court interpreter and used her spare 345 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:51,159 Speaker 1: time to help Italian immigrants with legal issues. She was 346 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,640 Speaker 1: also still the primary caregiver to all of those children, 347 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,920 Speaker 1: cooking all the meals for the whole household. Her ultimate 348 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: disqualification was paperwork. She had failed to properly register two 349 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: of the children, and she had undergone having to read 350 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: other families talk about hers as though they were undermining 351 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 1: society simply by existing. There were so many families who 352 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 1: similarly struggled, many with eight children born during the Derby, 353 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:22,440 Speaker 1: so they looked like they were contenders, and they stayed 354 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: in the press, and they had kind of willingly accepted 355 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 1: willingly as in air quotes, there being treated without dignity 356 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,920 Speaker 1: in the press. Simply because they saw this derby as 357 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:37,120 Speaker 1: their one chance at a better life. One reporter from 358 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 1: the US Sylvia Grace of the Pictorial Review was an 359 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: outlier and covering the story from a much more serious angle, 360 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:49,120 Speaker 1: writing of Millar's prank and impoverished families trying desperately to win. 361 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,119 Speaker 1: Quote the joke, if it was a joke, is not 362 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 1: funny to them. Additionally, all the families who seemed like 363 00:21:56,359 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: they might emerge the winner recorded by entertainment as hoping 364 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: to make money off of them. The families who were 365 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 1: living in poverty, some of these deals seemed like a 366 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 1: way to improve their lot in life, even if they 367 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 1: didn't win the derby, But of course these offers were 368 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 1: always exploited in nature. It doesn't appear that any of 369 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:19,440 Speaker 1: the mothers actually gained anything from any of their meetings 370 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 1: with agents. There were also some fairly horrifying constant tallies 371 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,880 Speaker 1: in the press, noting not just how many children there 372 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: were in each family, but also whether any of the 373 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 1: children were sick and whether they're possible deaths might impact 374 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 1: the outcome of the competition, and there were deaths in 375 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: some of the families, including one of the families that 376 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: ended up being declared a winner. But there was just 377 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 1: no delicacy really to this reporting. While parents were obviously grieving, 378 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: readers got what sounded almost like sports statistics reporting, and 379 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 1: they also read personal details about how the child's illness 380 00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 1: had been treated by doctors. There were six mothers in 381 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,919 Speaker 1: the end who emerged as the final group out of 382 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 1: an initial claimant group of seventeen. The first two were 383 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 1: going to talk about ran into a lot of problems 384 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 1: as they tried to prove their cases, and we will 385 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 1: get into all that after we hear from the sponsors 386 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:27,439 Speaker 1: that keep Stuffy miss in history class going. Mrs Lillian Kenny, 387 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,680 Speaker 1: who went by Lily, claimed that she had given birth 388 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 1: to eleven children in the ten year period outline in 389 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 1: the will, and that would have made her the clear winner. 390 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,119 Speaker 1: She was often talked about in the paper as like 391 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 1: the front runner and like obviously she's gonna win, but 392 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: she had not properly registered two of the children. Mrs 393 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 1: Kenny was also an eccentric who was happy to give 394 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 1: interviews about things like the wooden statues that she carved 395 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: of Charles Mallar and models of Toronto, and all of 396 00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: this made her a popular topic for articles but also 397 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 1: kind of a joke. But the reality of Lily Kenny's 398 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,920 Speaker 1: life was not funny at all. Her husband had lost 399 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,360 Speaker 1: his factory job at Goodyear Rubber in two and they 400 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 1: had been living off of Lily's meager income, caring for children, 401 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:18,199 Speaker 1: and government assistance. Since then. The Kenny family lived in 402 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:22,159 Speaker 1: deep poverty. One of their children had died from an 403 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 1: infection after being bitten by rats in the child's crib, 404 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:28,919 Speaker 1: and although she had reached out to the Department of 405 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,880 Speaker 1: Health to send a doctor, this request was handled with 406 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,879 Speaker 1: no urgency. The doctor didn't get there in time to 407 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 1: save the baby. So though the media attention that she 408 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 1: gained from agreeing to appear in lots of articles and 409 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 1: write ups about the Derby over the years might have 410 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: made her famous, she and her family still struggled with 411 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 1: meeting their basic needs. In a June six interviews, she 412 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:56,120 Speaker 1: told a reporter that she would not share the prize. 413 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:58,920 Speaker 1: The next sentence pointed out that she and her husband 414 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 1: were on government relief. Another reporter noted that though she 415 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 1: claimed at that point to have plenty of qualifying children, 416 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 1: only four of the children lived at home, the others 417 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,640 Speaker 1: having been moved to live with relatives to help shoulder 418 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:15,440 Speaker 1: the cost of their care, and that same reporter, Frank Chamberlain, 419 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 1: also ticked off Mrs Kenny's many artistic pursuits, but then 420 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 1: he closed what had been a fairly complimentary paragraph with quote, meantime, 421 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,359 Speaker 1: in the full glare of the noonday sun, she lets 422 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: Mary Anne, her youngest living baby, play in a crib 423 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 1: in front of her house. The real issue that emerged 424 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,160 Speaker 1: for Mrs Kenney was that three of the nine children 425 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 1: that she claimed tied her for the win had been stillborn. 426 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 1: She and her lawyer believed that these should count. The 427 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:49,679 Speaker 1: lawyer for the estate belief they should not. Additionally, he 428 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 1: pointed out that some of her children had late registrations, saying, quote, 429 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: it is not for parties to come forward years after 430 00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 1: and claim registration on disputed grounds. After some attempts to 431 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:05,919 Speaker 1: try to reconcile the late registrations, Lily Kenney's lawyers asked 432 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,639 Speaker 1: if there could be some kind of settlement for her instead, 433 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 1: and Judge Middleton refused. When her doctor was called in 434 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 1: to talk about the infants that had been born dead 435 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 1: or died very shortly after birth, Mrs Kenny wept throughout 436 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:24,880 Speaker 1: this incredibly detailed questioning that really did not leave much 437 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,920 Speaker 1: space for her dignity. Mrs Kenny left the courtroom during 438 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 1: a second round of this brutal medical questioning, telling reporters quote, 439 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:36,719 Speaker 1: they're treating me like a dog. I'm no dog. There dogs. 440 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,400 Speaker 1: They can take the money and go to hell. Her 441 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 1: legal team did, however, continue to appeal her case even 442 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 1: after she was disqualified in a judgment that included this 443 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 1: damning sentence quote, the conduct of Mrs Kenny leads me 444 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: to be exceedingly suspicious of her actions. Judge Middleton also 445 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 1: included in his ruling on Mrs Kenny's case that stillbirths 446 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,920 Speaker 1: should not be count because, in his view, and this 447 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,560 Speaker 1: is very hard to read, a child born dead is not, 448 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: in truth a child. Another woman, Mrs Clark, had nine children, 449 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 1: but five of them were born after she and her 450 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 1: husband had separated, and while she was still married to him, 451 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,359 Speaker 1: she had those children with another man. This was also 452 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,199 Speaker 1: called out as in violation of the rules, since the 453 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:27,160 Speaker 1: appeals Court had outlined that only children born in wedlock 454 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 1: would count. She initially hid her identity, giving interviews as 455 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 1: Mrs X in the hopes of obscuring the potential issues 456 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: around her children's births. She add even asked reporters to 457 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 1: please keep her name confidential, as she had simply been 458 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:46,880 Speaker 1: too poor to pay the legal fees for her divorce. 459 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 1: Her first husband had walked out on her, and she 460 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,879 Speaker 1: and the father of her last five children, Harold Matti, 461 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: lived as a married couple even though they weren't legally 462 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:01,439 Speaker 1: recognized as such. Her attorn these attempted to make the 463 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,440 Speaker 1: case that since she was still married, her children should 464 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:08,200 Speaker 1: be considered legitimate in the eyes of the court. They 465 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 1: also further suggested that it was possible that her legal spouse, Mr. Clark, 466 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,359 Speaker 1: could have possibly been the father, but this only served 467 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:20,200 Speaker 1: to damage her case. As the discussion of which man 468 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,280 Speaker 1: may have fathered her children unfolded. It was, of course 469 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 1: a degrading conversation. The judge even joked about her perceived 470 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,919 Speaker 1: promiscuity in his remarks, and she was also characterized as 471 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,680 Speaker 1: a bad mother. Further complicating her case was the fact 472 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 1: that she had registered some of the children with her 473 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 1: boyfriend's last name, and she told the court this was 474 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 1: because she was afraid of her husband and that he 475 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: might try to take the children if she gave them 476 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 1: his last name of Clark. In addition to all of this, 477 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 1: that also came out in court that Harold Mattel, the boyfriend, 478 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 1: had been physically abusive during their relationship, and that relationship 479 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 1: had ended before the court were seatings began. Mrs Clark 480 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,680 Speaker 1: had not ever even intended to participate in the derby 481 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: until her doctor mentioned it to her in n six 482 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 1: when she gave birth to twins, and by the end 483 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,760 Speaker 1: of all this, Judge Middleton had ruled that she had 484 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 1: turned her back on her children and abandoned them with relatives, 485 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 1: and though she had wanted to get them back and 486 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: believed the prize money would enable her to do so, 487 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 1: she was disqualified. The four families who won, which were 488 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 1: the tim Lecks, the Nagles, the mcleans and the Smiths, 489 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 1: were all white. Three of them were Protestant, and several 490 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,480 Speaker 1: of them had stayed out of the spotlight as other 491 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 1: contestants had been really harangued and just turned into media fodder. 492 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 1: They hadn't made their intent to be counted among the 493 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 1: competitors known until the last month of the contest window. 494 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 1: The tim Lex, Arthur Hollis and Lucy Alice Timleck had 495 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,960 Speaker 1: ten children they believed were eligible for the millar Derby. 496 00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 1: Lucy was Irish by birth, but had traveled to Canada 497 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 1: to work on a farm when she became an orphan 498 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 1: as a child. There's some question marks about that whole 499 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,720 Speaker 1: thing as well. Arthur, who worked for the city Parks 500 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 1: Department as a mechanic, was from Saskatchewan. They submitted their 501 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 1: intent to claim the prize a few months before the 502 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 1: contest ended. Mrs tim Lake had suggested in the summer 503 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,959 Speaker 1: of nineteen thirty six that the top seven contenders just 504 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 1: all split the five hundred thousand dollars that had been 505 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 1: set aside for the winner. Kathleen Ellen Nagle and her 506 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,960 Speaker 1: husband had twelve surviving children when the contest ended. Nine 507 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 1: of them were eligible. They came from Irish families, but 508 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:39,479 Speaker 1: they'd both been born in Ontario. Mr Nagle worked as 509 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 1: a carpenter, but had only been able to pick up 510 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 1: piecemeal jobs in the last few years of the Derby 511 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 1: and interviews, Kathleen Nagle exhibited a sense of solidarity with 512 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 1: the other mothers in the competition. She said that she 513 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 1: had planned to ensure that her competitors got at least 514 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 1: some of the money if she won. She also intended 515 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,320 Speaker 1: to put most of the winnings to her children's education. 516 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 1: Two of the four winning mothers were from lower middle 517 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 1: class families. Both of them had been reluctant to enter 518 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 1: the derby, and they did so only after reporters from 519 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: the Toronto Star reached out to them to encourage them 520 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 1: to compete. Annie Catherine Smith and her husband told the 521 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 1: reporter who reached out to them that they had not 522 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 1: been following the Baby derby and they didn't know much 523 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 1: about it, but they had nine children during Millar's ten 524 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 1: year window. The Star reporter had looked it up, and 525 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 1: so they entered on October one, n s which was 526 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 1: just ten days before the derby ended. The Smiths were 527 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 1: in a more stable financial situation than most of the competitors. Mr. 528 00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 1: Smith was a firefighter He had fought in World War One. 529 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: They were described in the press as quote an affable 530 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 1: and courteous pair who were quote kindly sensible folk. Their 531 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 1: house was in a pleasant neighborhood. It was reported that 532 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 1: they had a garden. The descriptions of them were always 533 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 1: about how good looking and just nice they were. The McLean's, 534 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 1: which were Isabelle Mary McLean and her husband were very 535 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 1: wary of disclosing their identities publicly. A Toronto Star reporter 536 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 1: had convinced them to do an interview in August of 537 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty six, which was two months before the derby ended, 538 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 1: but they had not decided to participate at that point, 539 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 1: and they went by the aliases of Mr and Mrs A. 540 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 1: According to isabel they knew about the baby competition and 541 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 1: they've had nine children, all registered with vital statistics, but 542 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 1: her husband was not convinced that they should do it, 543 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:38,960 Speaker 1: and up to that point they had been hearing about 544 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 1: people with ten and eleven babies, so they really didn't 545 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: think that the risk of losing their anonymity was even 546 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 1: worth it since they didn't think they would be in 547 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 1: the running to win. One thing that's very apparent in 548 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 1: that early rite up is that the press really liked 549 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 1: the McLean's. In contrast to the way women like Lily 550 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 1: Kenny had been written about. The McLean Hall home was 551 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: described as having quote a pleasant air of moderate prosperity 552 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 1: and thrift. Mr McLean worked for the Highways Department and 553 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 1: an office job, so to the press, this was the 554 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 1: respectable family they had hoped to see when the Derby 555 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,959 Speaker 1: Asabelle McLean didn't enter the competition until the day before 556 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 1: it ended on October ninety six. The tim Lecks and 557 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 1: the Nagles became friends over the course of the competition. 558 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 1: They actually celebrated Christmas together in nineteen thirty six, and 559 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 1: this was not the only friendship to develop. Most of 560 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:35,920 Speaker 1: the mothers who were frontrunners in the last year got 561 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,720 Speaker 1: to be fairly close because they had all discussed ways 562 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,160 Speaker 1: that they might be able to split the fortune and 563 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 1: benefit everyone. One family had even offered to donate blood 564 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 1: when the tim Lecks child was gravely ill. They had 565 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 1: had the child that died during the competition. Each of 566 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 1: the four winning families received a hundred thousand dollars. Most 567 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 1: of the very poorest families who had competed did not 568 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 1: win any money. The press coverage of the winners continued 569 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 1: for several months after the final decisions had been made, 570 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 1: lauded each of them for how well and how sensibly 571 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:12,360 Speaker 1: they had transitioned to financial comfort. A right up about 572 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:16,440 Speaker 1: the winning families in the Toronto Star in May stated quote, 573 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,920 Speaker 1: four of the four winners, one is a civil servant, 574 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,800 Speaker 1: and one a fireman and an employee of the city 575 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 1: Parks Department, and the last a carpenter, a quiet gentleman 576 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:30,200 Speaker 1: of Roman Catholic faith, who regards every child that comes 577 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 1: to his home as a gift from God, for which 578 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 1: he is most intensely and happily grateful. You'll notice that 579 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:40,440 Speaker 1: these descriptions are all actually about the fathers, when Millar's 580 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:44,680 Speaker 1: will had stipulated that the contest was among mothers, so 581 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,280 Speaker 1: calling the fathers the winners just really rankles me. Another 582 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,360 Speaker 1: interesting aspect of this post Derby coverage of the winning 583 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,279 Speaker 1: families is that while they had not all been on 584 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,919 Speaker 1: the same financial footing when they entered the contest, once 585 00:34:57,960 --> 00:34:59,799 Speaker 1: they had won, they were all described as if they 586 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:03,919 Speaker 1: had always been kind of lower middle class. In eight 587 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,960 Speaker 1: Mrs Clark and Mrs Kenny filed an appeal for their disqualifications. 588 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,720 Speaker 1: While they were not deemed contenders for the big prize, 589 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 1: they were each given a payout of twelve thousand, five 590 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 1: hundred dollars and out of court settlement with the winning families. 591 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:20,759 Speaker 1: For all of the families who had tried to get 592 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 1: a piece of Millar's fortune and failed, the gamble left 593 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:27,759 Speaker 1: them in a really precarious position of having huge families 594 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 1: to support. While all of the women interviewed over the 595 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,920 Speaker 1: course the competition in the aftermaths said that they loved 596 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,280 Speaker 1: children and they had wanted to have all those babies. 597 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,359 Speaker 1: It's also pretty likely that a number of them had 598 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,920 Speaker 1: more children during Millar stork Derby than they otherwise might have. 599 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,719 Speaker 1: One take on this is that women were trying to 600 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,560 Speaker 1: achieve a better standard of living for their family through 601 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,520 Speaker 1: one of the few ways that they could, child bearing. 602 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 1: In paper by Elizabeth Marjorie Wilton, she points out that 603 00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 1: there is a huge unknown element in all of this 604 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,359 Speaker 1: regarding family dynamics of any of the participants. We do 605 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,400 Speaker 1: not know them. We don't know much about the mindsets 606 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:08,879 Speaker 1: of most of the husbands involved. We don't know whether 607 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 1: the wives were exploited or felt exploited by their spouses, 608 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,440 Speaker 1: and whether there had been any discussion among them prior 609 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:19,640 Speaker 1: to attempting to join the competition about the financial ramifications 610 00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:24,200 Speaker 1: if they lost. Mrs Kenny continued to have problems and 611 00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:27,600 Speaker 1: to be a subject of public scrutiny after she had 612 00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 1: three home fires in a short period of time. In 613 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,279 Speaker 1: each instance, the home was destroyed and she and her 614 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,760 Speaker 1: family had to move. This gave rise to questions about 615 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:41,040 Speaker 1: whether she had somehow been involved in the fires. She 616 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,040 Speaker 1: was never found to be responsible, and eventually, she liked 617 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,800 Speaker 1: the rest of the Derby mothers, were pretty much forgotten 618 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,719 Speaker 1: by the press as different and new stories took over 619 00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,880 Speaker 1: the focus. Yes, she really got her ringed for several years. 620 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:58,399 Speaker 1: It's worth noting that this entire thing obviously completely changed 621 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:00,520 Speaker 1: the lives of these people, but it also changed the 622 00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:04,279 Speaker 1: public image of Charlie Millar. Prior to his death, he 623 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,840 Speaker 1: had long been known as a wealthy and extremely successful lawyer, 624 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:10,280 Speaker 1: and his friends may have known him as a prankster. 625 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:12,279 Speaker 1: Most of them would describe him that way, but most 626 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,760 Speaker 1: people did not. But the Will and the Baby Derby 627 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,200 Speaker 1: had an almost instant effect, As described by writer Eric 628 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:25,239 Speaker 1: Hutton in a June article in McLean's magazine, Quote Overnight, 629 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,480 Speaker 1: Charles vance Millar underwent a posthumous change from a rich, 630 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:33,319 Speaker 1: respectable stuffed shirt into a fabulous character who was to 631 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:38,120 Speaker 1: receive more conversational and news page space in Toronto than 632 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:42,000 Speaker 1: any other subject between World Wars one and two, and 633 00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:48,759 Speaker 1: that included Lindbergh's Transatlantic flight and the stock market crash. 634 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:52,920 Speaker 1: There's so much to unpack in this thing. I have 635 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:59,200 Speaker 1: many thoughts. Yeah, many of them are crabby. I have 636 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,840 Speaker 1: crabbing us of out malar. We can maybe talk about 637 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:06,439 Speaker 1: that on Friday. I have crabbiness about all of it. Um. Yes, 638 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:08,560 Speaker 1: we will talk about so much of this on Friday. 639 00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:10,719 Speaker 1: And I want to mention at least one of the 640 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,600 Speaker 1: participants that we didn't really get to focus on in 641 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 1: this one because it was a little long and we 642 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,160 Speaker 1: had to cut some stuff. But um, I will do 643 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,360 Speaker 1: a much more delightful listener mail since this was a 644 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,680 Speaker 1: little bit rough. Okay, this is from our listener Jane, 645 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:29,520 Speaker 1: who writes it's about noodles. Years ago, I was very 646 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,399 Speaker 1: fortunate that my grandparents took me to Italy in Rome. 647 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:34,840 Speaker 1: Every day, on my way to the hotel lobby, I 648 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,680 Speaker 1: would peruse the menu on the elevator wall, planning my 649 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,600 Speaker 1: evening meal because that's what you do and not sight seeing. 650 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,919 Speaker 1: There was a dish noodles with cream, which didn't sound 651 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,720 Speaker 1: very appealing, but every day it would catch my eye. 652 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,919 Speaker 1: There was also a German language menu, and I saw 653 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:54,000 Speaker 1: it there noodon krem, which I figured was noodles with cream, 654 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:55,839 Speaker 1: but I couldn't, for the life of me, figure out 655 00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:59,080 Speaker 1: what this dish was. On a particular day, I happened 656 00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 1: to be on the other side the elevator and looked 657 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:03,400 Speaker 1: at the menu, and lo and behold, this menu was 658 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,640 Speaker 1: in Italian, so I quickly looked for the possible translation 659 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,200 Speaker 1: of noodles with cream, and all of a sudden, the 660 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:14,040 Speaker 1: penny dropped Fetichini alfredo. My heart soared, my mouth salivated. 661 00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:16,480 Speaker 1: Needless to say, I had my noodles with cream that 662 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:19,359 Speaker 1: night and every night after that until we left Rome. 663 00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,319 Speaker 1: I enjoy your podcast very much. Keep up the good work. 664 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:24,919 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Jane. You are a woman after 665 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:29,319 Speaker 1: my own heart. If you would like to write to 666 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,480 Speaker 1: us about delicious things you have eaten, they provide great 667 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,319 Speaker 1: ends to episodes that are downers. You can do that 668 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,239 Speaker 1: at History Podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. You can also 669 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:41,120 Speaker 1: find us on social media as Missed in History, and 670 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,000 Speaker 1: if you have not yet subscribed, you can do that 671 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,040 Speaker 1: on the iHeart Radio app or wherever you listen to podcasts. 672 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:53,600 Speaker 1: Stuff you Missed in History Class is a production of 673 00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,840 Speaker 1: I heart Radio. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, 674 00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:59,839 Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple podcasts or where 675 00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:02,200 Speaker 1: a where you listen to your favorite shows. M