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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sense Podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is artist producer shootor Jenny Shooter. Good

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Speaker 1: to be here with you, man, Good to be here

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Speaker 1: with you. I understand. I's got to start by saying,

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Speaker 1: I owe you an apology because I guess I said

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Speaker 1: something about you on Twitter years ago, and I don't

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Speaker 1: know what I said because I love you. I think

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Speaker 1: you're a fantastic voice, and I love your letter. So

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Speaker 1: I don't know what I said, but whatever I said,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure who knows what I was thinking at the time,

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Speaker 1: And I'm sorry. Well, you and the mother of your

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Speaker 1: children were going on, but you were very nice about it.

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Speaker 1: Let's call that history. So okay, everybody in your life,

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Speaker 1: like your wife, etcetera, they all call you shooter or

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Speaker 1: do they call you something else? They all call me shooter.

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Speaker 1: I mean my wife Misty calls me s J sometimes,

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Speaker 1: but otherwise Shooter it is. It was always I used

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Speaker 1: to say, cops and uh, substitute teachers would call me

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Speaker 1: Whalen because it's just on my I D and that's

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Speaker 1: what my name is. But everyone else has always called

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Speaker 1: me shooter. Okay, so what are you working on right now. Man,

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Speaker 1: I've been working on a lot of records that you know,

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Speaker 1: I've kind of changed my focus a bit, which I

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Speaker 1: I I'm very happy with. I kind of always wanted

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Speaker 1: to get into production, had been doing it here and there,

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Speaker 1: but we really wanted to move towards that and really

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Speaker 1: in a you know, being on the road for so

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Speaker 1: many years, and while I've enjoyed it, I've always felt

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Speaker 1: like I kind of plateaued in different spots it and

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Speaker 1: and to be able to start working on records really

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Speaker 1: brought out a different joy. And now I've kind of

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Speaker 1: fast tracked that as my primary focus. So I'm working

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Speaker 1: on a lot of records. I just finished a record

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Speaker 1: on a band from Reno called hell Bound Glory, and

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Speaker 1: I started I'm starting another record on Tanya Tucker in January,

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Speaker 1: are second one, and and just kind of we just

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Speaker 1: you know, did Brandy did, a guy named av Kaplan,

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Speaker 1: Kelsey Walden, bunch of artists. I'm just kind of every

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Speaker 1: month doing records if I can. So why did you

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Speaker 1: always want to be a producer? Well, It's funny because

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Speaker 1: it's weird because like when I was young, I didn't

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Speaker 1: really realize how much I I really had a head

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Speaker 1: for for that part of the business. When I was young,

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Speaker 1: I set up a studio at my house where I

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Speaker 1: grew up at my my mom dad's house in Nashville,

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Speaker 1: because I wanted to be in a band. And I

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Speaker 1: was really inspired by nine Inch Nails because when I

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Speaker 1: was a computer kid and I was a keyboard kid,

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Speaker 1: and uh I when that when I really discovered nine

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Speaker 1: inch Nails and discovered that Trent Resider was doing a

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Speaker 1: lot of this stuff by himself, Like it was really

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Speaker 1: inspiring to me because I was like, hey, I could

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Speaker 1: I could probably learn to do this. I'm really into computers.

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Speaker 1: I played piano, I played drums a little bit in

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Speaker 1: a little guitar, you know. So I started doing like

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Speaker 1: kind of like programming and making full productions at home.

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Speaker 1: And I had a couple of friends that were guitar

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Speaker 1: players because I wasn't a very good guitar player, so

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Speaker 1: they would be in my band and they would play tar,

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Speaker 1: and I would like program drums and things and and

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Speaker 1: I was always really focused on the on the production

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Speaker 1: layering and all that. And but in my heart, I

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Speaker 1: was I was young. I was like eighteen nineteen, you know,

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Speaker 1: and I wanted to be in a band, so, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, I felt like, well, this is how you

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Speaker 1: do it, all right, And and so I moved to

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Speaker 1: l A and and kind of got away from the

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Speaker 1: programming side, had a live band, and we we tried

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Speaker 1: real hard to get a deal and breakthrough and didn't

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Speaker 1: really ever get a big deal or anything. And then

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Speaker 1: I decided to kind of do my solo thing, and

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Speaker 1: I just went down that path for a long time.

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Speaker 1: And I met Dave Cobb very early on in that

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Speaker 1: and he we did like seven records together, and he

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Speaker 1: taught me so much about like because I hear I

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Speaker 1: was coming from this industrial side, and he was like

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Speaker 1: this Beatles guy, Like he knew everything about the Beatles.

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Speaker 1: And I always say he put the he brought the

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Speaker 1: Beatles into country music like nowadays, because so much of

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Speaker 1: his mindset was the Beatles and the Faces and all

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Speaker 1: this kind of that era English rock, you know. And

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Speaker 1: so he taught me so much about gear Like I

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Speaker 1: I just really didn't know anything about Abbey Road and

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Speaker 1: I and Mine and Chandler. So and it took me

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Speaker 1: a while to actually become a gearhead because I was

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Speaker 1: still in the band. He was my producer, you know,

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Speaker 1: and we we would kind of barrel along. And when

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Speaker 1: he when he moved to Nashville, I didn't want to

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Speaker 1: work with anybody else because I loved Dave, like still

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Speaker 1: to this day. He's he's like a brother to me.

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Speaker 1: And and so I decided, you know, I'm gonna I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna start doing my own records. And I and I

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Speaker 1: did um self produced uh two records of Mine Family

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Speaker 1: Man and the Other Life, Other Life, and uh, then

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Speaker 1: I started At that point, I there was a lot

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Speaker 1: of other bands that I liked out there in this

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Speaker 1: kind of burgeoning scene that later became like you know,

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Speaker 1: the Isbels and all these guys. But there was like

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Speaker 1: all these bands like uh, Scott h Biram and hell

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Speaker 1: Bound Glory and this band called Fifth on the Floor

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Speaker 1: from Kentucky, and and they were all kind of making

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Speaker 1: this great music, but they the records were like home spun,

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Speaker 1: you know. And so I started to say, like, hey,

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Speaker 1: maybe I could get into working with some of these

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Speaker 1: these other artists. They're like my age and and try

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Speaker 1: and like use what I had learned with Dave and

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Speaker 1: along the way to make good records on him, you know,

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Speaker 1: And it was hard to kind of break into that.

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Speaker 1: But I got to do a couple of records and

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Speaker 1: Jason Boland asked me to do a record on him.

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Speaker 1: He was the first person to ever asked me to

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Speaker 1: produce a record. And that was many years ago. It

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Speaker 1: was like two thousand twelve. We did a record and

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Speaker 1: it kind of started there. And then I met this manager, Um,

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Speaker 1: this guy that who became my manager. His name was

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Speaker 1: John Hensley. He passed away about five years ago, but

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Speaker 1: he um, he became like my best friend and and

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Speaker 1: he he was younger than me, but he really took

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Speaker 1: me under his wing to give me a different kind

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Speaker 1: of confidence. Um, because I had coming. I'm sorry to

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Speaker 1: ramble so much by no great keep going okay, okay, Um,

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Speaker 1: well John, you know like part of it. There was

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Speaker 1: like a kind of mental struggle with the whole like

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Speaker 1: be being Wayland's son thing, because I always not I

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Speaker 1: had no problem with it, Like my dad was a

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Speaker 1: great dad and we were very close and there was

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Speaker 1: no like riff for like any bitterness. But I think

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Speaker 1: I always felt like I had to be like a

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Speaker 1: certain way being his son, no matter what it was,

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Speaker 1: no matter how my career works. So John kind of

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Speaker 1: taught me like, don't do so many interviews. You don't

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Speaker 1: have to like you don't have to like be nice

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Speaker 1: to everybody, you have to go do everything like and

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Speaker 1: he kind of taught me how to like pull back

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Speaker 1: and he goes. And he also said, you know, you

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Speaker 1: need to be producing records. And he wanted to start

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Speaker 1: a label like we like Jack Whites, you know, third

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Speaker 1: Man Records, And at the time, there was a lot

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Speaker 1: of other people kind of popping up, like Ryan Adams

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Speaker 1: had his pack Sam and and he was like, we

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Speaker 1: can do that. Let's do that. And so me and

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Speaker 1: him started a label and then we started doing these

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Speaker 1: projects and they weren't like high profile projects or anything,

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Speaker 1: but we there were some cool ones that that got

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Speaker 1: mixed in there, Like I there was the thing with

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Speaker 1: Billy Ray Cyrus that was really fun, and did a

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Speaker 1: thing with like McK foley that was like a Christmas

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Speaker 1: album that him and his son did. And we did

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Speaker 1: all these kind of seven inches and kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: fun record store day projects, and he just really encouraged

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Speaker 1: me to keep producing and doing things like that. So

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Speaker 1: like as that started happening, I did this record of

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Speaker 1: my own because I was starting to get really experimental

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Speaker 1: and I did this record called Coon Tosh. It was

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Speaker 1: like a tribute to Georgio Moroder. And I had met

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Speaker 1: Brandy Carlisle in two thousand and twelve and we had

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Speaker 1: instantly hit it off. And I and she had these

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Speaker 1: tattoos on her arms that are the logo from the

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Speaker 1: never Ending Story and I'm a kid. I'm kind of

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Speaker 1: like the guy who's like trapped in his childhood, like

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Speaker 1: but by my own making. And I like it, you know.

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Speaker 1: But um so I loved that and we when I

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Speaker 1: was doing this Georgio Moroder record, Georgio wrote the never

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Speaker 1: Ending Story theme song. So I reached out to Brandy

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Speaker 1: and said, would you would you be on this album?

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Speaker 1: Like if you would, if you would be on this album,

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Speaker 1: I would put this out on my record. I put

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Speaker 1: the everything story on there, you know. And she did

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Speaker 1: it and we put it on the record, put it

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Speaker 1: out and everything. And then she called me and she said,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what it is, but I want you

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Speaker 1: to be involved in my next record. I want you

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Speaker 1: to help produce it. And I said, man, I was like,

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Speaker 1: this is the opportunity of a lifetime for me. Because

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Speaker 1: I loved her, and I was like, I would love to,

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Speaker 1: and she goes, do you know Dave Cobb And I

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Speaker 1: go yes, I said, we've done seven records together. We've

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Speaker 1: we've done We're like brothers. Yeah, and she goes, well,

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Speaker 1: I want you both to do my record, and and

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Speaker 1: me and Dave hadn't worked together and in several years,

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Speaker 1: so I was like it was like a she brought

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Speaker 1: us back together in a way, and and uh, and

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Speaker 1: it was just that kind of kicked the doors open.

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Speaker 1: Then after that, like Duff mccagan and Marilyn Manson and

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Speaker 1: asked me to do their records, and and then um,

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Speaker 1: Tanya Tucker was my my project because I was I

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Speaker 1: was working with her, but I wanted to produce her.

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Speaker 1: I had heard her sing on something I was producing.

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Speaker 1: I had had her sing on it, and I was like, wow,

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Speaker 1: she's so good still, She's just got it. And I

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Speaker 1: asked her I want to do a record, and and

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Speaker 1: I just kind of briefly mentioned it to Brandy after

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Speaker 1: we had done her record and everything, and and she said,

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Speaker 1: oh God, I loved Tanny Tucker. She's my favorite. I

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Speaker 1: used to sing all these songs and I go well,

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Speaker 1: why don't you co produce it with me? If you

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Speaker 1: I don't know all of her songs, I love Tanya,

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Speaker 1: but if you know all of her songs, you know

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Speaker 1: her voice, then let's let's do this together, you know.

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Speaker 1: And that's kind of kicked that off, and then like

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Speaker 1: everything kind of happened, and then I started being asked

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Speaker 1: to do a lot of records and and it just

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Speaker 1: it made it fulfilled something that I didn't realize it

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Speaker 1: was yearning I was yearning for, you know, because I've

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Speaker 1: been getting really worn out being away from my kids

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Speaker 1: and traveling on the road and kind of playing clubs

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Speaker 1: NonStop and and and doing one record maybe two records

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Speaker 1: a year. And to be able to do like all

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Speaker 1: these records constantly and work with other artists and like

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Speaker 1: their ideas and their visions and try and make them happen,

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Speaker 1: it like unlocked this side of me. That that was,

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Speaker 1: like I didn't realize was so fulfilling. And so after

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Speaker 1: that it was kind of like, I want to do

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Speaker 1: this constantly, and I but I thought, okay, five years,

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Speaker 1: five years, I'll be able to get off the road

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Speaker 1: and do it. And then the pandemic hit and it

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Speaker 1: like fast tracked the entire process, and even though it

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Speaker 1: was a horrible thing for the world, it was very

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Speaker 1: good for my emotional state in creative state because it

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Speaker 1: kind of opened fast tracked my my dreams, you know.

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Speaker 1: So there you go in a nutshell. No, that's a

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Speaker 1: great that's a great overview. So how did you actually

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Speaker 1: meet Dave Cobb? Uh? Well, so I had made some

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Speaker 1: demos for what would be my first record, put the

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Speaker 1: Obacky Country with UM the band there. I met him

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Speaker 1: here in l A. Uh the band guys, and we

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Speaker 1: put together a band and we've written all these songs

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Speaker 1: and made some demos and uh, we were going I

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Speaker 1: don't remember even remember the guy's name, but there was

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Speaker 1: a band called Hot Hot Heat back when this we

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Speaker 1: were doing this, it was like two thousand three. UM

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Speaker 1: and the producer who had done their album with that

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Speaker 1: song Bandages, I think was an aim of the song.

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Speaker 1: He was we were gonna work with him. And coincidentally,

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Speaker 1: when I moved to l A into nineteen or sorry

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Speaker 1: the year two thousand, I had a manager who moved

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Speaker 1: me here. His name was Shan Racigliano and his partner

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Speaker 1: was named Andrew Brightman, and uh, they co managed us,

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Speaker 1: and then at one point Sean split off and I

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Speaker 1: stayed with Sean, but Andrew and I remained friends. And

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Speaker 1: Andrew's twin brother was one of my dearest friends still is.

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Speaker 1: But Andrew manages Dave Cob. He got Andrew had gone

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Speaker 1: out of the artist management thing and gotten more into

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Speaker 1: the producer management thing. And I was gonna go do

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Speaker 1: this record with this hot, hot heat guy. And Andrew

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Speaker 1: called me and said, Hey, before you go meet this guy,

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Speaker 1: there's a guy who just moved to l A. He's

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Speaker 1: from your neck of the woods. I think you guys

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Speaker 1: would get along really well. I'd love for you to

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Speaker 1: like meet him. And and I went and met Dave

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Speaker 1: and and he had kind of just gotten here from

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Speaker 1: Atlanta and we had worked on some cool stuff, but

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Speaker 1: like I was really finding his way in l A.

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Speaker 1: And we kind of met and instantly loved each other.

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Speaker 1: And then we went in the studio and cut two

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Speaker 1: songs which ended up on that record, Um Daddy's Farm

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Speaker 1: and bustin Baylor County. We kind of at Paramount Studios

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Speaker 1: here and and it was so cool sounding. I was like,

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Speaker 1: this guy knows how to do what I want to do.

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Speaker 1: You know, it was like we just instantly we were

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Speaker 1: like rednecks who didn't didn't like being rednecks, and we're

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Speaker 1: like MTV kids and liked rock and roll and liked

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Speaker 1: all these other things and and like in that way,

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Speaker 1: we just were instantly like brothers. Like it was just

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Speaker 1: like a connection that was instant, you know. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: how has Dave changed with all his success, talking less

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Speaker 1: in terms of personality and more in terms of his productions. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think, I mean, Dave is like the coolest thing

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Speaker 1: about I mean, he hasn't changed, you know, personally really

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Speaker 1: in my opinion at all. He Uh, what's cool is

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Speaker 1: that the old Dave when when he was just starting out,

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Speaker 1: like you could tell like he was ready to play

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Speaker 1: in the room with all the gear. He was ready

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Speaker 1: to record the record at Abbey Road with the Beatles,

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Speaker 1: you know, but but like the world was catching up

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Speaker 1: to him. So like it's just awesome to see him.

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Speaker 1: Like once he got like our Cia Studio A and

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Speaker 1: he's got like all the gear he ever wanted, and

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Speaker 1: it's and he's like trading out boards and getting new

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Speaker 1: getting an a p I and then he gets sells

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Speaker 1: at and gets a Knave and like now he's getting

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Speaker 1: to play with all the stuff that he always dreamed of.

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Speaker 1: So it's like it's almost like fully realized Dave, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean. It's like he he was there,

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Speaker 1: but the world was catching up to him, and not

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Speaker 1: once the world caught up to him, it's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: he's he's getting a lot of respect, which he very

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Speaker 1: much deserves. Well, he's the hottest guy in Nashville certainly

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Speaker 1: when you talk about credibility. So what is his secret sauce?

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Speaker 1: His secret sauce? I would say his he Okay, First

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Speaker 1: of all, Dave is like not afraid to to say

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Speaker 1: doesn't like something. You know, that's definitely like It's a

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Speaker 1: good thing about Dave is that he's he's a very

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Speaker 1: personable person. He's a Southerner, so he's a gentleman. But like, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, he he knows he knows how to steer

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Speaker 1: something in a direction that he wants gently, which is

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Speaker 1: a great thing. But I would say the greatest asset

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Speaker 1: with Dave is his knowledge of music, which with a

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Speaker 1: lot of producers this way, but his catalog of music

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Speaker 1: in his mind and what his taste is when it

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Speaker 1: comes to the equipment. Like you know, Dave is a

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Speaker 1: geared He's the gear guy. Like if I'm buying something,

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Speaker 1: I buy stuff from Dave all the time. Like when

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Speaker 1: we were doing Brandy's last record, he had this piece

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Speaker 1: of gear that was a it was a single channel

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Speaker 1: strip from the Electra Asylum board that they cut warren

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Speaker 1: Zevon warren z von On here in l a On

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Speaker 1: Los Angele Boulevard hit a single channel from it. He's like,

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Speaker 1: you want to buy it? I was like, yes, I

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Speaker 1: want to buy that. You know, he was over it.

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Speaker 1: He loved it, but he was over and ready to

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Speaker 1: sell it, and I was like, I'm buying it. I'm

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Speaker 1: buying you. It's my favorite piece of gear. So the

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Speaker 1: thing about Dave is he collects all this stuff and

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Speaker 1: he's he knows everything about all this gear. So like

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Speaker 1: when you record with Dave, you know you're you're gonna

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Speaker 1: be getting something that's like so authentic and like old

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Speaker 1: school yet like modern. You know, like he just is

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Speaker 1: he's a sound crafter. And that's really like when you

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Speaker 1: when he he mixed the first Brandy record except for

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Speaker 1: the joke, and I loved it. When we were doing it,

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Speaker 1: he was like, I'm gonna mix this, and I was like, yes,

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Speaker 1: because I knew what that meant. You know, any other

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Speaker 1: mixer is is gonna do a great job, I'm sure,

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Speaker 1: but Dave, it's gonna sound like like a Beatles record.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna sound like a uh like you know, I

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Speaker 1: can't find my way home or like like uh, Paul

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Speaker 1: Simon like he's obsessed with all these these producers and

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Speaker 1: these engineers from those eras. So you know he has

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Speaker 1: studied that stuff and he's and he just shares the knowledge,

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Speaker 1: which is another thing that is fantastic about him. Okay,

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Speaker 1: you said he turned you into a gear head. Tell

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Speaker 1: me that process. Well, because I didn't, you know, like

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Speaker 1: when I was as a as the artist. Uh, I

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Speaker 1: was like, well, Dave's got it all. Why wh why

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Speaker 1: do why do I need you to go down this road?

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Speaker 1: You know? And then once I started getting into the

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Speaker 1: production side, I'm like, Okay, I need to start getting

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Speaker 1: some gear and like really learning the gear and like

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Speaker 1: so when I when I first started, I would call

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Speaker 1: Dave and I was like, hey, like I need to

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Speaker 1: get some preamps, you know, and and he would he'd

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Speaker 1: be he'd send me a reverb. Like he's like, these

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Speaker 1: are the actual preamps that we recorded Electric Rodeo on,

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Speaker 1: and it was these these E M I, t G

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Speaker 1: two and this channel or t G two And I

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Speaker 1: was like all right, you know so and then he's like,

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Speaker 1: and you need to get one of these. And then

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Speaker 1: like when I was doing the manson record, I was like,

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Speaker 1: he was like, you gotta get one of these hues. Uh.

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Speaker 1: There's this little box that's like it was made in

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Speaker 1: the nineties for UM. It was made for home stereo

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Speaker 1: systems to make it like using phase it would emulate

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Speaker 1: three D kind of sound, but on a home just

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Speaker 1: two speaker system. But like Chad Blake would use it

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Speaker 1: with reverb because you can like put reverb or any

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Speaker 1: channels through it and then mess with this weird phase

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Speaker 1: and it kind of makes the reverb sound like they're

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Speaker 1: behind the speaker or makes the audio sound like it's

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Speaker 1: coming from elsewhere in the room and it's just a

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Speaker 1: phase trick between the two speakers. So like he would

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Speaker 1: just kind of throw ideas at me, and I would

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Speaker 1: what's the name of that product us the name of

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Speaker 1: the company, and it's an S R S. Let's see. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: just ther s r S a K. Sound Retrieval System

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Speaker 1: is what it's called. And it's just sitting right here

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Speaker 1: up here, and but you know, and he would just

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Speaker 1: always throw throw me a bone. And then and then

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Speaker 1: once I got to a place where I was like

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Speaker 1: discovering some gear, I would be like so excited and

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Speaker 1: proud to like be like, Dave, have you checked out

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Speaker 1: this thing? And He's like no, And I'm like, let

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Speaker 1: me tell you all about it, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: because it was it was made me feel like I

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Speaker 1: had learned something, you know. But but really like like

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Speaker 1: he's one of those kind of dudes who who shares

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Speaker 1: the knowledge is excited to to turn people other people

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Speaker 1: onto cool stuff, you know. So but he turned me

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Speaker 1: into a gearhead. And now I've bought so much crap.

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Speaker 1: And like I didn't used to like go on the

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Speaker 1: reverb and sell things and then use that money and

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Speaker 1: buy more things and do all this. You know, I

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Speaker 1: just didn't have the patience for it. But now I've

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Speaker 1: become addicted to it. And it's all his fault. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you're in l A, yes, sir, been here's something

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00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,920
Speaker 1: not the street of just but generally generally uh, kind

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Speaker 1: of near the Hollywood Bowl that's okay, on the valley side,

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Speaker 1: or the Hollywood right on the valley side, like where

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Speaker 1: the Barn bridges. I'm near there, okay. And you have

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Speaker 1: a studio in your house that you're in right now.

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Speaker 1: I do, I do, Okay, So how extensive is your studio?

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Speaker 1: We can you cut in your studio or everything? I can?

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Speaker 1: I've never cut drums, and yet my wife and I

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Speaker 1: bought this house last year, so we we haven't gotten

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Speaker 1: to where I've cut on an entire session in here,

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Speaker 1: but I've I've I can do them. I can do

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Speaker 1: anything in here. I've cut um, of course, like vocals.

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Speaker 1: I've cut full tracks that are programmed. I've got a

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Speaker 1: piano that's all wired up, and I've cut piano tracks.

400
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Speaker 1: You know. I've mixed. I can mix in here. I

401
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Speaker 1: mixed one of the songs on Brandy's new record in

402
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Speaker 1: this room. And I've got a big, nice wall of

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Speaker 1: outboard gear right here in this little studio desk with

404
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Speaker 1: a lot of all the gear that I need. Like

405
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Speaker 1: I wouldn't say I could rent this out to someone

406
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Speaker 1: and that they would enjoy it, but for me, it's

407
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Speaker 1: like perfect for me, it's just set up kind of

408
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Speaker 1: what kind of board, No board, It's all pro tools

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Speaker 1: I have. I know, I have like a lot of

410
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Speaker 1: pre amps, and I have a lot of like outboard

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Speaker 1: gear that I run things through. I have, like I said,

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Speaker 1: I had that one channel from that board that was

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Speaker 1: at the Electro Asylum. So when it like when I

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Speaker 1: mixed the song was called Center Sanson Fools off Brandy's album.

415
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Speaker 1: But when I mixed that, I ran every single track

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Speaker 1: through that one channel, so that kind of emulated as

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Speaker 1: if I was using that same board from the war

418
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Speaker 1: van was cut on, you know, But like I just

419
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Speaker 1: had to do it one by one. I basically recorded

420
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Speaker 1: into pro Tools and then dump it through this thing,

421
00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:10,359
Speaker 1: each channel through that thing, and it comes back and

422
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Speaker 1: it sounds like sounds like an old console. But I

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Speaker 1: have no physical console in here. I'd like to get

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Speaker 1: one eventually, but I do so much in pro Tools,

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Speaker 1: and and I've always been able to do that no problem.

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Speaker 1: I have like a little automated desk that controls pro Tools,

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Speaker 1: but no physical poork. Okay, where are you on on

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Speaker 1: the analog digital debate. I'm I've done plenty of records

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Speaker 1: all analog, while I enjoy it, I you know, the

430
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,800
Speaker 1: pro tools digital to me has come so far the

431
00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:47,560
Speaker 1: audio quality, it's really hard to differentiate it. Of course,

432
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:51,040
Speaker 1: there's like tape sound and things, but I prefer to

433
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:54,439
Speaker 1: work on the computer. Again, I'm the computer nerd at

434
00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:56,920
Speaker 1: heart anyway, and I love all the things you can

435
00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,040
Speaker 1: do with the computer, so I I kind of look

436
00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:03,520
Speaker 1: at it like a never ending exploration machine, you know.

437
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:09,760
Speaker 1: So So why did Dave Dave not mix the Joke? Well,

438
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,320
Speaker 1: he did originally, and I loved his mix, but he

439
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:17,879
Speaker 1: felt he wanted Tom Elmhurst to take a shot at it,

440
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:22,159
Speaker 1: who did most of the new record, Who's a great mixer. Um,

441
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:24,080
Speaker 1: it's funny. I think Dave makes two songs on the

442
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:26,560
Speaker 1: new record. I mixed one and Tom mix the rest.

443
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,960
Speaker 1: But on the original, like I said, I love Dave's mix,

444
00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:33,080
Speaker 1: but he and Brandy eventually said no, we want to

445
00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,639
Speaker 1: We want somebody else to mix the single, and I

446
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:38,800
Speaker 1: think Tom did a great job with that. But I'm

447
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,520
Speaker 1: a fan of Dave's mixes. That So, what's the difference

448
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:46,320
Speaker 1: between Dave's mixed on the Joke and the ultimate release version?

449
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,840
Speaker 1: Not a ton But there's like Dave's mixes sound like

450
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,679
Speaker 1: they're they're like nine, you know, with with a modern

451
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:58,440
Speaker 1: low end, like they really sound like classic. And Tom's

452
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,399
Speaker 1: while it was recorded using a lot of classic gears.

453
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,880
Speaker 1: So so Tom's is similar, but you know, he's he's

454
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,239
Speaker 1: a professional mixer, so he's mixing everything like from I mean,

455
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 1: I don't want to I'm not ripping on Tom's mixed

456
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 1: by any means, there's just a different You can hear

457
00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:19,520
Speaker 1: Dave's touch in a mix in my opinion, and it's

458
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:25,040
Speaker 1: it's kind of like instant, instantaneously identifiable, instantly, I should

459
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:28,720
Speaker 1: say identifiable to me. So like Tom, like you know,

460
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:30,880
Speaker 1: he brought up the high hat, like put some verb

461
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 1: on the high hat and away and it and some

462
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,880
Speaker 1: of the high end on the drums kind of popped

463
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,800
Speaker 1: more than than Dave's would days. Is again more classic,

464
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 1: you know, and kind of like like an old record

465
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:42,720
Speaker 1: that even though we didn't cut it to tape, like

466
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,600
Speaker 1: his mixes kind of sound like like their tape, you know.

467
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,040
Speaker 1: And so there were just some some kind of EQ

468
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:53,399
Speaker 1: differences and and and Tom's really good with Brandy's voice.

469
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 1: That was the first time he had mixed it, and

470
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:58,119
Speaker 1: Brandy really flipped out, like he he whatever his chain is,

471
00:22:58,160 --> 00:22:59,960
Speaker 1: which I'm not aware of what it is he uses,

472
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 1: but whatever he uses on her voice, it really brings

473
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 1: it out front and center. And I think I think

474
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,120
Speaker 1: that was part of the decision at least on Brandy's

475
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,960
Speaker 1: part with that mix, was like how front and center

476
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:22,080
Speaker 1: her voice was on it. But I liked them both. Okay,

477
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,480
Speaker 1: so let's assume I want to make a record with you,

478
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 1: and I'm not an artist. But what's the approach I use? Wait,

479
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:33,399
Speaker 1: if you're if you want to make it, what do

480
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:34,399
Speaker 1: you mean by that? If you want to make a

481
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:36,399
Speaker 1: record with me but you're not an artist? No, I

482
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 1: mean me personally, I'm using a hypothetic. Okay, Well, I

483
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,480
Speaker 1: mean when I look when somebody comes to me and

484
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 1: wants to make a record, if somebody asked me to

485
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 1: make record, Like sometimes i'm introduced to people. Sometimes it's

486
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,359
Speaker 1: kind of like it. It depends on the situation of

487
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 1: how we end up getting in the room. But like

488
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 1: I'll give you an example with like Duff mccagan. I

489
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 1: was I had known Duff a long time, but I

490
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,119
Speaker 1: was not in his He was not aware that I

491
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 1: was producing records like We've known each other from my

492
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,919
Speaker 1: old band and and been like fifteen years, but we

493
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:12,719
Speaker 1: hadn't like hung out. We didn't like hang out all

494
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 1: the time. And Um Greg Nadel, who were who runs Electra,

495
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 1: we were. I was actually at Colbert same day that

496
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,639
Speaker 1: I told Brandy about the Tanner record and she freaked

497
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:24,919
Speaker 1: out and I was like, come do it with me.

498
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 1: That same day, Greg Nadel was like, hey, he pulled

499
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 1: me aside. He said, Deaf mccagan is doing a new record,

500
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 1: and what's a producer would you be interested in? He's

501
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 1: like it's kind of like a Stones type thing, and

502
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,359
Speaker 1: I was like, of course I would love to because

503
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 1: I loved I loved um his stuff like camp can't

504
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:43,679
Speaker 1: put my arms around a memory when he covered the

505
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,160
Speaker 1: Johnny Thunders on the Guns and Roses Spaghetti Incident record

506
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:51,399
Speaker 1: and stuff like. I liked his style. And so when

507
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 1: we met, he came over. He came over my house

508
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:55,880
Speaker 1: and this is not this house. It was the last

509
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 1: house we had, which was much smaller. In my studio

510
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 1: is basically a closet. But I had this little electronic

511
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 1: piano and he had all these pieces of songs. So

512
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 1: we sat down and probably spent about a week total

513
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 1: going through all this material, and and one thing that

514
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,920
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm good at is kind of completing

515
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 1: musical arrangements. So some somebody has like a part of

516
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,399
Speaker 1: a song. Like he had pieces of songs choruses and

517
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:25,439
Speaker 1: verses and melodies with not even completed lyrics, you know.

518
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 1: And so we would sit down and I would he

519
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 1: would play me like on his guitar. He had a guitar,

520
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 1: and I was sitting at the piano, and he would play, uh,

521
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:37,639
Speaker 1: this piece of a song like converse the chorus, and

522
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 1: I'd be like, Okay, what if we like do this

523
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,880
Speaker 1: as a connector between the chorus and the next verse,

524
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,199
Speaker 1: and maybe this is a bridge or whatever. And we

525
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 1: would kind of like mess with them until we had

526
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:51,199
Speaker 1: these kind of you know, arrangements. Basically they weren't he

527
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,119
Speaker 1: wasn't even done with the lyrics, but there were complete arrangements,

528
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,919
Speaker 1: you know. And so we worked through all that, and

529
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 1: then once that happened, he let me put together the band.

530
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 1: And I have a band that I love working with

531
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,479
Speaker 1: here that I've worked with for many years. If if

532
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 1: I get the option to pick the band for them,

533
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:10,160
Speaker 1: I always picked these guys and we kind of got

534
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 1: in and did the whole thing on the spot, you know.

535
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 1: So that so that's one way of working. Like when

536
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 1: I when I did Manson's record, he he had nothing,

537
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:21,400
Speaker 1: so we made it all up. I made up all

538
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 1: the music myself with him, and he wrote all the

539
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 1: lyrics and we we just kind of constructed of nowhere,

540
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 1: like with with Tanya with Brandy, you know, with that project,

541
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 1: it was kind of different because with that we me

542
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: and Brandy were picking material for her and writing material

543
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 1: and then once we got in, like she she was

544
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 1: so hard to even get her to listen to any

545
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: of the materials. She didn't like it, she didn't want

546
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 1: to do it, she didn't think she thought we were crazy.

547
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 1: And we convinced her to get to l A to

548
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: Sunset Sound, and once we got there, it just kind

549
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 1: of was like on the fly. You know. So every

550
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 1: every time when somebody does the record, it's it's different,

551
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: you know, And that's kind of what I feel a

552
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 1: producer's job is anyways, like is to kind of be

553
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 1: this malleable um, have a have a malleable role because

554
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 1: sometimes you the artist in the band, have all the

555
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,679
Speaker 1: songs figured out and it's really about just facilitating it

556
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 1: or or setting you know, getting good sounds or whatever.

557
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 1: But then sometimes you have an artist, like right after

558
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 1: Duff um So, Duff's manager is best friends with Slashes manager,

559
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 1: and Slashes manager manages White Buffalo. So after I got

560
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 1: done with Duff and Duff was really happy, they suggested

561
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 1: suggested me to work with White Buffalo, and I met Jake.

562
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 1: We went out and met at a bar and had

563
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 1: had like a little date, a little blind date, and

564
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 1: hung out and had some beers and and um went

565
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 1: and we really hit it off, like instantly hit it off.

566
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,159
Speaker 1: And he didn't have really any material. He was just

567
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: kind of like tinkering. But I think he was in

568
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 1: a place where he didn't know what was next, and

569
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 1: I think he like had his last producer had like left,

570
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: or I don't know what happened. Jake said, wonderful guy,

571
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,919
Speaker 1: so like I don't know what had happened. But he

572
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,120
Speaker 1: didn't have a producer or anything. And we sat down

573
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 1: and he was like, I was like, what material do

574
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 1: you have? He's like, oh, I don't really have anything.

575
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 1: And then he started like listening in his voice notes

576
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 1: and finding little pieces of songs that he had written

577
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 1: over the years, and I was like, that's great, and

578
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: then we kind of like duff, like I said, at

579
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 1: the piano, and we worked him out and worked some

580
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:21,400
Speaker 1: arrangements and and the next thing, you know, we had

581
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 1: we had a record and and it was there, you know.

582
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 1: So it just kind of depends. Like this time around

583
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:29,160
Speaker 1: with Tanya, it's very different than it was last time

584
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 1: with Tanya because this time I kind of had an

585
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,439
Speaker 1: idea and wrote some songs as a vision for the record,

586
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 1: and Brandy got on board with that, and and now

587
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: we're going in January. And you know, last time, a

588
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 1: guy in her band, Tim hands are Off, wrote a

589
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 1: lot of the songs for the record. This time around,

590
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 1: it's different. So Brandy's written some, I've written some. So

591
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: it's just kind of like it always changes, you know.

592
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 1: But but either way, I'm into, Like I love meeting people,

593
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: I love doing records getting I really respect being taken

594
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 1: into their process and into their bands and being a

595
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 1: part of it. And I really want them to have

596
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 1: a good time and I want them to be happy

597
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 1: every day in the studio and be excited. I don't

598
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: believe in roadblocks, and I don't believe in like they're

599
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 1: being tension Like I know, I just I'm just not

600
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 1: that type of person. So like to me, I want

601
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: to get in there and have everybody be all smiles

602
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 1: and I'm so excited from day one to the end,

603
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 1: you know, and no matter what it takes. Okay, So

604
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 1: let's assume the people tend to come to you. Is

605
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 1: it serendipitous like with the Dell or do you have

606
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 1: a manager and where does money come in? Well? I

607
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 1: have a manager who who after the guy I told

608
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: you about, the Colonel John Hensley passed away, um that

609
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 1: there was a there was a guy who we hung

610
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 1: out with. It I had known since I was a

611
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 1: kid whose grandfather played bass for my dad. And his

612
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 1: name is Adam Bridges and he's ten years younger than me.

613
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 1: And after John died, I was like, you know what

614
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 1: I did? You know, I can't remember what it's called.

615
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: And I sound like an idiot. I'm speaking out of turn.

616
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 1: But but like in the Jewish family, when someone dies,

617
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 1: they take thirty days to like two mourn and figure out,

618
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 1: you know, what's next. And so I said, I'm going

619
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: to do that. After he died, and I took thirty

620
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 1: days because I was like, I don't want to hire

621
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 1: another manager. I don't know what to do, and and

622
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: it just kind of came to me and I was

623
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 1: like Adam was not even a manager at the time,

624
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 1: but I was like, come, come manage me, you know,

625
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 1: and he started. Now he's like started a whole management company,

626
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 1: managed tons of people, and it's like he's doing so great.

627
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 1: But but um, so he's my manager, he's my partner.

628
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 1: He also runs our label that we have BCR together.

629
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: But he so he he's the key to a lot

630
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: because he is my schedule keeper because I'm I'm so

631
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 1: all over the place, like between records and devoting I

632
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 1: devote a lot of time to my children and everything.

633
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 1: Like he kind of schedules and budgets and puts all

634
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 1: that together so that I don't have to worry about it.

635
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: And and it also has a flow with the engineers

636
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 1: and studios I work with and everything. But um you know,

637
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 1: usually the artists either I come to them or they

638
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: come to me, like tany I came to them, like

639
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: Brandy uh duff. You know, let's I mean, there's I'm

640
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 1: trying to think it kind of is different sometimes I'm

641
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 1: set up on the date, like with the White Buffalo,

642
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 1: but that worked really great. Sometimes like my my booking agent,

643
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 1: John Folk and introduced me to American Aquarium and that

644
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: record happened that way. Jason Boland, the master Sins were

645
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 1: old friends. They asked me to do it. Um you know,

646
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 1: was more than happy to do it. So it usually

647
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 1: comes through people I know and that channel. But then

648
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: I then I I joined Concord as a staff producer

649
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 1: and a and R under Tom Wally, and so in

650
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 1: that I do three records. I can still do outside records,

651
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:53,719
Speaker 1: but I do three records with them a year. And

652
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 1: so in that they that which I love the company

653
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:00,240
Speaker 1: and I love the network. I love Fantasy I. I

654
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 1: had worked with them with Tanya Um you know, Margie

655
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 1: over there and a bunch of great people at all

656
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 1: the different labels, John Strom at Rounders. So I've gotten

657
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 1: to know them and be kind of in the system there,

658
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: which has been really interesting and wonderful experience and worked

659
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 1: really closely Bryan Wally um on loan of this to stuff.

660
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: So they all set me up for meetings with different

661
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 1: artists like Avi Kaplan was a good one and who

662
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 1: uh We did a whole record last last winter that

663
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: turned out really great. And I've had some meetings with

664
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 1: some artists there and you know, they didn't pick me.

665
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 1: They went with other people or for whatever reasons. You know.

666
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 1: It wasn't always wentn't like we didn't get along. It

667
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 1: was just like whatever the situation was, it right. And

668
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 1: that's that's very different than what I'm used to, which

669
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 1: is like people that I know kind of reaching out.

670
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 1: But I like this because it's a challenge and it

671
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: and it kind of also it puts me in situations

672
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 1: musically that I've never been in. And to me, I'm like,

673
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 1: I want to learn all the time, i want to

674
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 1: get better and I want to like ex arians different things,

675
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 1: you know. So so in that sense, I'm really enjoying

676
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 1: doing it that way. But it's different for me. Okay,

677
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 1: But let's talk about budgets. Needle to say, you came

678
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 1: on board when the old system was in its last throws.

679
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 1: So you know, you get a big budget, a couple

680
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 1: of hundred k from the label you're cutting a big studio.

681
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: So what kind of budgets do you work with today

682
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 1: and what's your deal? Well, I mean, my price is

683
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 1: like it depends. It depends on how much time and

684
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: it's gonna take. You know, if it's a short record,

685
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 1: it's whatever. I mean, we we kind of work out

686
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 1: different prices. But but like with studios, you know, it's

687
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 1: very different, Like you said, it's very different. I mean

688
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 1: it's it's not Bust Rhymes spending like seven thousand dollars

689
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 1: on a record in the studio, you know, or it's

690
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 1: not like like you know, Paul Simon, Simon and Garfunkel,

691
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,479
Speaker 1: I think they mixed uh Bridge over Trouble Water for

692
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 1: six months, you know. So nowadays it's so different that

693
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 1: you gotta kind of do it for quick and and

694
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 1: you know, under budget if you can. And so I

695
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 1: when I when we do records, they usually are total

696
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 1: encapsulated probably eighty two honor twenty dollars these day. That

697
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 1: that's kind of usually what what they're working with, you know,

698
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: And that's that's with a label behind them. Sometimes it's

699
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 1: it's you know, we're doing it like hell Abound Glories

700
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 1: on my label, and so we're paying for all of it.

701
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 1: So we did their last record in two days. We

702
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 1: did five songs a day, two days nailed at this

703
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,360
Speaker 1: time we just got out. We did five days, and

704
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 1: I was really happy because I wanted they deserve the time,

705
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:39,319
Speaker 1: but it was like the budget didn't allow it last time.

706
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 1: This time we've made a little bit, so we're able

707
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 1: to do it. So it just it just kind of matters,

708
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 1: you know, that kind of what kind of record it is.

709
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,359
Speaker 1: But again, it's it's all guerrilla these days. It's all

710
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 1: kind of stealth. But I love working. My favorite studio

711
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 1: is Sunset Sound, which has just been around forever, and

712
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 1: I love those guys over there. And if I can't

713
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 1: do it there, there's a studio called Dave's Room that

714
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 1: used to be a guy named Dave Bianco used to

715
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 1: run you passed away who engineered like Wildflowers for Tom

716
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:08,800
Speaker 1: Petty and stuff. And his engineer who I've known a

717
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 1: long time, David Spring, took over his studio. So I

718
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,359
Speaker 1: worked there a lot, and we can we can do

719
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,399
Speaker 1: it within a smaller budget if we do it there,

720
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 1: because it's David's studio, so he's charging me, him and

721
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,800
Speaker 1: the studio in one fee. And if I'm picking the band,

722
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: my guys will do it for a good price. A

723
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 1: lot of the time, you know, in l A you're

724
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 1: not bound to the restrictions of the union, which could

725
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 1: could be viewed is a good or bad thing. But

726
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,319
Speaker 1: in some situations where a band really needs it and

727
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 1: the union is like making everybody take a certain amount,

728
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 1: it can make it really hard, like in Nashville to

729
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 1: make a cheap record. But out here, if the band's

730
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 1: into it and they like the music, they'll do it.

731
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 1: And we can really kind of cut some stealth records

732
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,800
Speaker 1: very quickly and and everybody get taken care of and

733
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 1: and be cool. So you know, it's like it all

734
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 1: just kind of is. It moves, but it's a lot

735
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:57,760
Speaker 1: smaller than he used to be. But you can still

736
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:01,760
Speaker 1: make records. I think that our our fantastic and sound great.

737
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: And sometimes you spend a year on a record at

738
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 1: home doing it, and sometimes you spend six days, but

739
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 1: they can all be good. Okay, So you say such

740
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 1: that sound is expensive? Uh, do you always cut in

741
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 1: sunset or Dave's room where sometimes you're just cutting in

742
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 1: your house? It depends on the project. Like lately, I've

743
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 1: been working with this guy DJ Paul who's was in

744
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 1: three six Mafia, and he wanted to do kind of

745
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,240
Speaker 1: a rock record, So We've done that all at my house,

746
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 1: and and the same went for that Manson record. We

747
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:37,319
Speaker 1: did that all at my house and then we went

748
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 1: to a studio and cut live drums over a period

749
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 1: a couple of days, and so doing doing albums at

750
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 1: home it's a different process. It usually involves a lot

751
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,280
Speaker 1: of programming. Usually, like I don't, I'm not usually cutting

752
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 1: because like I haven't really built any kind of baffles

753
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 1: or soundproofing in here, which I'm fine with. Piano is fine,

754
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 1: acoustic is fine, but if I want to set up

755
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:01,879
Speaker 1: big tar amps and stuff, I could do it here.

756
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 1: But I prefer to do it all in a room

757
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,879
Speaker 1: where it's laid out because I usually, if if it's

758
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:09,839
Speaker 1: a live band album, I wanted to all be cut

759
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:11,879
Speaker 1: at the same time. I don't. I'm not. We don't

760
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,439
Speaker 1: usually do it piece by piece, instrument by instrument, which

761
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,239
Speaker 1: a lot of people do do, but I prefer to

762
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 1: have it be all tracked at once, and in that case,

763
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 1: I need the space. But if we're doing something like

764
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,879
Speaker 1: the DJ Paul project where we're programming a lot of it, um,

765
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:28,319
Speaker 1: I can do that and we can do it piece

766
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 1: by piece here and then we can take it to

767
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,040
Speaker 1: a studio and cut the live stuff that we need

768
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 1: that way. But but most of the time, uh, most

769
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 1: the types of records that I do require a live space,

770
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:41,919
Speaker 1: and and you know, Dave's room and since it sound,

771
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:46,399
Speaker 1: both have wonderful wood rooms in great drum rooms and

772
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 1: isolation booths and pianos and things, so we're able to

773
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 1: kind of get a really warm, rich sound out of them,

774
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 1: you know. Okay, So the newest Randy record you're doing.

775
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 1: The previous one, she hadn't had that level of success

776
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 1: whatsoever in terms of recordings. It was earlier stuff with

777
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 1: Tibo and Burnett that had the most commercial connection. So

778
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 1: you do this record is unbelievably successful. Okay, now you

779
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 1: have to do a follow up. There's so many questions involved,

780
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 1: I mean, because now you have the pressure, now you

781
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:26,240
Speaker 1: have the notoriety. So walk me through in terms of

782
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 1: how that affected the process, in terms of writing the

783
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:33,719
Speaker 1: material and the attitude in the wanting to find you know,

784
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 1: the trucks that would resonate with listeners. Well, you know,

785
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:44,840
Speaker 1: the greatest thing about Brandy Carlyle is that she, like

786
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 1: her and Phil and Tim hands Wrath, are a writing collective.

787
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 1: And they did this for so long together, and they

788
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 1: wrote so many songs, and they developed their craft and

789
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:59,359
Speaker 1: their arts so much that I think that they were

790
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 1: so far into their own process and it had been

791
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 1: so far refined that I did when I heard the

792
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,799
Speaker 1: demos for this new album, it did not feel like

793
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 1: someone who had just gotten some success and we're trying

794
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 1: to replicate that success. It was a whole new batch

795
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 1: of songs that was very much in there their wheelhouse.

796
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 1: But it there was nothing that there that was like, oh,

797
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:26,319
Speaker 1: we got to do another joke, or oh we've got

798
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,319
Speaker 1: to do something popular to keep up with this, or that.

799
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 1: It felt very authentic and real. And the demos, like

800
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 1: I remember the demos from the first record and what

801
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 1: they sounded like, and it stayed very true to them

802
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 1: um as far, and they were just like acoustic and

803
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 1: her and them singing, you know. With this one, like

804
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 1: I remember I was, I was laying in bed with

805
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 1: my wife, You're about to go to bed, and I

806
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:49,879
Speaker 1: got all these texts from Brandy and it was like

807
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:53,840
Speaker 1: Broken Horses was in there, and Broken Horses had like

808
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 1: a little bit different of a chorus, and there was

809
00:39:56,280 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 1: some different elements that were changed and refined during the process,

810
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 1: but pretty much they were. They were very true to

811
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:04,359
Speaker 1: the thing like you and me, and the rock was

812
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 1: in there right on time, was in there, like there

813
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 1: was these songs that were already kind of fully developed,

814
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,760
Speaker 1: but they were they were they felt like another step.

815
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:15,800
Speaker 1: It just didn't. It didn't feel like they were turning

816
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:17,880
Speaker 1: around and looking back at what they've done and trying

817
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 1: to do something. It's like to them, they've been doing

818
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 1: this so long that they were almost unfazed by the

819
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 1: pressure because they've already been through that, like doing that

820
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 1: first record and then kind of having all this success

821
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:34,000
Speaker 1: and and then kind of you know, continuing, but but

822
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 1: it always kind of staying in that spot. And I'm

823
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 1: not saying that critically, like I know that I know

824
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 1: how hard it is like to kind of break through

825
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,839
Speaker 1: the levels, and especially when when Brandy like this has

826
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: a lot going against her going in there, like you know,

827
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 1: she's a woman, she's gay, like she's outward about it,

828
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 1: like she had resistance in different areas because of all

829
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 1: of this, which she just shattered and broke because she

830
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 1: doesn't care, and she's very true to her heart and

831
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,400
Speaker 1: and very true to who she is, and um, you know,

832
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 1: so I think they were just continuing their exact same

833
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:10,439
Speaker 1: growth and process that they'd always done. And in that way,

834
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:13,400
Speaker 1: I don't think that there was a pressure if anything. Brandy,

835
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 1: you know, the one thing she talked about was she said, uh,

836
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 1: she doesn't mind me saying that, which I don't think

837
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 1: you will. But she was like, she really wanted to

838
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: make sure this record had fallopian tubes, is what she

839
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 1: said it was. And it was like kind of the

840
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:31,879
Speaker 1: way of saying, like the tender feminine moments. She knew

841
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:33,839
Speaker 1: there were some rockers that they had come up with

842
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:36,800
Speaker 1: like this Broken Horses and and Centers, Saints and Fools

843
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,279
Speaker 1: and these songs and even you and Me on the Rock,

844
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 1: which is kind of jony ish, but it's like, but

845
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 1: she had this throwing good after bad, Like when she

846
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:47,320
Speaker 1: sent me that song that was in that first batch,

847
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 1: I like, that was my favorite song of the bunch

848
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:51,759
Speaker 1: at first, and I was like, oh my god, I

849
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 1: love this song, you know, and she was like, that's

850
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:57,319
Speaker 1: what she meant by the floppian tubes like that, and um,

851
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 1: let's see my letter to the paths Like those songs.

852
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:06,720
Speaker 1: She really wanted to have that that sensitive feminine energy

853
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 1: be really present on this record, and not that it

854
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 1: wasn't on the last one, but I think I think

855
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 1: she succeeded in that. And so she has a vision

856
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 1: for where she wants to go. And like an artist

857
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 1: like David Bowie or somebody, she's always evolving and she

858
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:26,480
Speaker 1: knows it and she's always um wanting to you know.

859
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 1: It's like what, there's a there's saying that says like

860
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 1: that an entrepreneur is someone that always thinks that their

861
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 1: next thing is going to be the big one that hits.

862
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 1: And in a way, it's not like she's thinking that commercially.

863
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 1: I think she's just thinking like this one is the masterpiece.

864
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 1: Like every time she cuts a record, she's like, this

865
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:48,799
Speaker 1: one is the one, you know, And like that translates,

866
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 1: and that kind of confidence is on her part, and

867
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:55,279
Speaker 1: the Twins is very and there's it's confidence that is

868
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,839
Speaker 1: like draped in a in a humility because they know

869
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,719
Speaker 1: who they are and they don't put on airs that

870
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 1: they're amazing. But like yet the minute they start playing

871
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 1: their songs, you're just kind of I'm like, you know,

872
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:09,480
Speaker 1: blown away by it, and her voice blows me away.

873
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 1: So it's like to them, the pressure was there, but

874
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 1: it didn't really feel like it really more than anything,

875
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 1: felt like we were just really excited to get back

876
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:20,760
Speaker 1: in together because here we had done this one record

877
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 1: and had all this success, and we're like, let's do

878
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:33,320
Speaker 1: it again, Like this is really fun, you know. So okay.

879
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 1: So in terms of making that record you co produced

880
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:40,440
Speaker 1: with Dave, what did Dave Cobb do? What did you do?

881
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:44,760
Speaker 1: And you talk about like with other artists helping write

882
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 1: the songs, to what degree were you involved in changing

883
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:52,920
Speaker 1: the songs? Well, it's funny because between the two records

884
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 1: it was it was a little different, but but it's

885
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:01,719
Speaker 1: still the same thing. Like Dave and I, like when

886
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:04,839
Speaker 1: Brandy first realized that we like really knew each other

887
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:06,760
Speaker 1: and we got in the studio, she kind of described

888
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 1: it like like two kids building a rocket ship in

889
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 1: their basement, Like we are like that together. So with

890
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 1: the first record, like Dave and I had talked a

891
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 1: lot previously, and we had all these ideas which immediately

892
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 1: went out the window of the minute we got in

893
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 1: there and heard the material and and I didn't know

894
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 1: I was gonna play piano on the whole record. I

895
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,240
Speaker 1: didn't think I was gonna play anything on the record,

896
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 1: and when the minute we got in there, Dave got

897
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 1: on the acoustic and I was on the piano, and

898
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 1: it kind of stayed that way for the whole record.

899
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,399
Speaker 1: And I remember at the time I wasn't as good

900
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 1: as a piano player as I am now. I played,

901
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 1: but I wasn't. I didn't play for other people, and

902
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:44,359
Speaker 1: there was a lot of songs and black keys, and

903
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 1: I was so nervous because I didn't play very well

904
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 1: in black keys, but I didn't want to let on

905
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:51,359
Speaker 1: that I wasn't good at it, so I just kind

906
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:53,919
Speaker 1: of like toughed my way through it and did did

907
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 1: the whole record. And so the second time around, well,

908
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, so that that was the

909
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:02,480
Speaker 1: first thing in the first record, and then I started

910
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:04,879
Speaker 1: like it was like finding our place was interesting because

911
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:06,839
Speaker 1: I was kind of like, where am I gonna Where

912
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:09,719
Speaker 1: am I gonna fit? Because I always I love Dave.

913
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 1: Working with Dave, but he's always been my producer. We

914
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:15,239
Speaker 1: had never like co produced together, so I was never

915
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:18,399
Speaker 1: really sure going in like how it was gonna work like.

916
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 1: But once we got in, I realized, like that there's

917
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 1: there's very much a um like a it's hard to explain.

918
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 1: It's like a it's like a chemistry with all of

919
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 1: us as a group encouraging each other in certain ways.

920
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,839
Speaker 1: That part is almost more powerful than the actual production

921
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:42,399
Speaker 1: part of it. Like there's parts where like I mean,

922
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:44,359
Speaker 1: for me, I'm big into arrangement, so to be parts

923
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 1: where would be like I'd be like, what if we

924
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 1: cut this out? And what if we change this or

925
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:50,160
Speaker 1: we put this here instead of there, Like that kind

926
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:53,759
Speaker 1: of stuff I jump into a lot. Dave also does that.

927
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,440
Speaker 1: He's also more like when we sit down and go

928
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:58,319
Speaker 1: through the songs, Dave will be like, oh, what if

929
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 1: we do discord instead of that chord? He does more

930
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 1: of the chord like changing things because he's guitar minded,

931
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 1: so he would sit there on the on the guitar

932
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 1: and do that, whereas like I uncertain things would do

933
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 1: that with the piano. But most of the time I'm

934
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 1: kind of accompanying. I'm not driving as much as as

935
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 1: the guitar does. So there would be some like kind

936
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 1: of changes like that. And then of course Dave and

937
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:21,279
Speaker 1: his knowledge of gear, I'm not going to get in

938
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 1: the way of like that. You know, there'd be certain

939
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 1: things keyboard wise, or synthesizer wise. I'd be let's get

940
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 1: that in here, let's do that. But Dave is the

941
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 1: guy when it comes to the equipment, and he's got

942
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 1: all of it, so so you know, you know that

943
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 1: he knows what he's doing there, so I stay out

944
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 1: of the way there. Um. The second record was different.

945
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 1: Second record had I felt I was more involved in

946
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 1: certain aspects than I was before, like especially in like

947
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 1: a mediation sense, because there was a lot of like

948
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:56,320
Speaker 1: there was just a lot of information flying around because

949
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 1: it was it was during COVID. We're doing the record

950
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 1: in the middle of the in the middle of our

951
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:04,360
Speaker 1: c A instead of in a separate room like before

952
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 1: it was in the control room and we're tracking in

953
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 1: the large room, but because of COVID, Dave decided to

954
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 1: set the board up in the center of our ci

955
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:15,479
Speaker 1: A Studio A and we're all recorded in the same

956
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:20,480
Speaker 1: room with the board. So when that's happening, like where

957
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 1: where I was physically in the room was between the

958
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:26,399
Speaker 1: board and the band, and then Dave is over here

959
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:30,719
Speaker 1: and Chris the drummer was in a booth. So there

960
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 1: was I remember kind of feeling like where I was

961
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 1: physically was allowed me to be kind of a conduit

962
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 1: in communications person in this room more than I was

963
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 1: in the last one, because in the last one, I

964
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:45,799
Speaker 1: was tucked off in this corner and I'd have to

965
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:48,600
Speaker 1: be listening and and chiming in, And this time I'm doing,

966
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 1: oh he said this, you know or whatever, like relaying information.

967
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:54,200
Speaker 1: So there was a little bit of that, and then

968
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 1: there was a little bit of like this time around,

969
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:59,400
Speaker 1: I was really confident on the piano, and I was

970
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 1: very ashing it about some of the arrangements like uh,

971
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 1: broken Horses and Center Saints and Fools, some of those

972
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:13,600
Speaker 1: kind of songs. Like especially I was like this is

973
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:16,799
Speaker 1: this felt like my wheelhouse, Like even though the other

974
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 1: record did as well, the other record was pretty mellow

975
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 1: besides some Sugartooth Like Sugartooth was like that was my

976
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 1: wheelhouse on that one, uh you know fulsome County Jane Doe. Also,

977
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 1: this time around, I felt I just felt really confident.

978
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 1: I also, you know, the last record, I was kind

979
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:37,759
Speaker 1: of stepping in and was been being brought into the

980
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 1: situation that was a big deal, and it was kind

981
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 1: of like my first big deal record, you know, not

982
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 1: Dave's by any means, but it was kind of my,

983
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:46,759
Speaker 1: in my opinion, my first really big deal records. So

984
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 1: this time around, I felt like really confident, really excited,

985
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 1: and I felt like I could bring a lot more

986
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:54,000
Speaker 1: to the table than I could last time. Even though

987
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:57,200
Speaker 1: I felt like I did do a lot. This time around,

988
00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:00,359
Speaker 1: I felt very at the center of it with Dave,

989
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:04,320
Speaker 1: and I felt like, uh, also, there was a different

990
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 1: communication with me and Dave. This time. Me and Dave

991
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:10,840
Speaker 1: were kind of I don't know, it's almost like like

992
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:13,839
Speaker 1: last time. And I mean this in like a great way,

993
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:18,160
Speaker 1: but like last time, we were both still finding our

994
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 1: voices out there. Like he he had really hit it

995
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:23,680
Speaker 1: in Nashville, had all the success with with Chris, but

996
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 1: his his thing was still starting to like really crank

997
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:29,240
Speaker 1: up and and again like I had kind of stepped

998
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 1: into this new direction of my life. So this time around,

999
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:34,399
Speaker 1: we both have this like kind of different piece about us,

1000
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 1: I think, and and I think it allowed for us

1001
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 1: to to really be two sides of the the tesla

1002
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:45,480
Speaker 1: coil for like them to um you know, or conduits

1003
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:47,719
Speaker 1: for for them to do their things, So that there

1004
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 1: was definitely some of that. And it's really cool because

1005
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 1: Dave plays the acoustic and I played the piano right,

1006
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 1: so like when he's got his sound that's very seventies,

1007
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 1: like just just him playing the acoustics that way, and

1008
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 1: I've got my sound that's kind of like like I

1009
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:03,360
Speaker 1: love Elton John So I'm always kind of aping that world,

1010
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 1: which is something Brandy you know, loves, and so so

1011
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 1: we kind of got into a groove both records. It

1012
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:12,040
Speaker 1: was so fun and we had never done before. We'd

1013
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:15,680
Speaker 1: never jammed together, so me and Dave kind of being

1014
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 1: on either side of that was it was a really

1015
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:23,280
Speaker 1: cool part of of the sound developing of these records,

1016
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:25,280
Speaker 1: and I think it kind of made the records stand

1017
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:28,520
Speaker 1: out from previous records because really we were holding down

1018
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:31,840
Speaker 1: the fort on almost all the songs together and and

1019
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:34,440
Speaker 1: that part was really fun. But like this time around,

1020
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 1: and also this time around when it got to the end,

1021
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 1: like me and Dave were both mixing songs, you know,

1022
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:41,440
Speaker 1: and and Tom mixed most of the record with but

1023
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:44,799
Speaker 1: there was one song Brandy didn't feel like that we

1024
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:46,680
Speaker 1: were getting the right mix, and I said, let me

1025
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 1: take a shot at it, and I did it, and

1026
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:50,279
Speaker 1: she loved it and ended up on the record. And

1027
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 1: there was there was another one Dave like the same thing.

1028
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:55,040
Speaker 1: Dave like didn't mix the whole record this time, but

1029
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 1: there was two songs on the record of Dave mix

1030
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 1: and you could tell because it's like Dave stuff like

1031
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 1: stay gentle and this time tomorrow. He's just great at

1032
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:07,359
Speaker 1: that acoustic like can't find my way home sound like

1033
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 1: that's where he's a master at it, you know. And

1034
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 1: and so it was really cool, was it? Really? It

1035
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 1: was kind of a different experience, but it felt really

1036
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 1: fulfilling because it felt like we really busted our asses

1037
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:21,360
Speaker 1: on this one together, you know. Okay, you talk about

1038
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:25,759
Speaker 1: working with all these different artists, sometimes writing stuff, sometimes arranging.

1039
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:28,239
Speaker 1: You know, in today's rule where there's so much money

1040
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 1: and publishing, what happens with the songwriter credits? Well, I

1041
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:36,960
Speaker 1: don't you know, Duff offered me songwriter for all the

1042
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:40,359
Speaker 1: songs that I helped create. But I don't take it.

1043
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:42,319
Speaker 1: I I don't. I mean, I'm just not that type

1044
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 1: of person. I think it's my job to do that.

1045
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 1: Like if I went in the studio with some songs

1046
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:52,400
Speaker 1: and somebody changed my stuff and then ask for songwriter credit,

1047
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 1: like it could be one thing if they like really

1048
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:57,560
Speaker 1: changed it, and and I was like, you deserve Like

1049
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:01,480
Speaker 1: I gave Dave credit on songs in the past, like

1050
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:05,280
Speaker 1: for sure, like and I've given you know, there's songs

1051
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:07,640
Speaker 1: that were created on the spot, and you know I

1052
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:10,359
Speaker 1: give it out. But like, I think it's the producer's job.

1053
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:13,520
Speaker 1: And I think Dave feels this way to like arrangement

1054
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:17,080
Speaker 1: means sometimes you're gonna change stuff, or you're gonna tell

1055
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 1: the artists change from You're gonna give suggestions, and unless

1056
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:25,320
Speaker 1: it's like crazy, you know, obviously like this person wrote

1057
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 1: this song, I think it's our job. I don't think

1058
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:30,439
Speaker 1: we should be asking them. And I said Noted Duff,

1059
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:32,719
Speaker 1: and I don't. I don't want to even get into

1060
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:35,960
Speaker 1: that because again, it's my job. I'm being paid for that.

1061
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:37,840
Speaker 1: I'm also getting a cut of the record, you know,

1062
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:40,120
Speaker 1: I'm getting a whether it be three points or whatever,

1063
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:43,279
Speaker 1: four points on a record that is already part of

1064
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 1: their career. I don't. I don't. I don't personally feel

1065
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:50,120
Speaker 1: like I should be aping their publishing because I made

1066
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:53,839
Speaker 1: some suggestions. And it also opens a whole other conversation

1067
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:56,800
Speaker 1: because then if I'm going to do that as an artist,

1068
00:52:56,840 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 1: I would probably not want the producer to get involved

1069
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 1: if I know they're going to try and chop take

1070
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:04,360
Speaker 1: my publishing and all this stuff you know you're publishing

1071
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:07,239
Speaker 1: is like your kids stuff when when you die, you know.

1072
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:10,320
Speaker 1: So it's like, I just I don't I don't agree

1073
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:13,319
Speaker 1: with with producers who do that or even you know

1074
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:15,719
Speaker 1: a lot of time musicians who feel like, oh, I

1075
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 1: wrote that baseline, I need to have a little cut

1076
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 1: in there, And you're like, I don't know, man, I

1077
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:22,239
Speaker 1: don't know. I could just change that baseline and to

1078
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 1: be mine again, you know what I mean. Okay, So

1079
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:31,479
Speaker 1: growing up, when did you realize who your parents were? Man,

1080
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 1: that's funny. That's funny because I was, you know, I

1081
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:36,759
Speaker 1: was on the road as a baby, so like like

1082
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:40,120
Speaker 1: we I would be sleeping on the bus in the

1083
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:46,200
Speaker 1: back with my mom or like on airplanes and I

1084
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:49,440
Speaker 1: and I traveled with until I started school, so like

1085
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 1: it was normal. There was this was just normal. And

1086
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:56,200
Speaker 1: I was around other people like Willie Nelson's family or

1087
00:53:56,239 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 1: the Cashes and Christofferson's like their kids are out on

1088
00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:00,839
Speaker 1: the road and we would out in the roads. You're

1089
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 1: kind of like it's kind of like people who grew

1090
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:06,520
Speaker 1: up in a completely different culture, and it's totally normal

1091
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:09,160
Speaker 1: to them, you know, but everybody else is like like wow,

1092
00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:11,279
Speaker 1: like you grew up in tree houses, you know that

1093
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:14,000
Speaker 1: kind of thing. It's like for us, it was normal.

1094
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:17,799
Speaker 1: So it wasn't until you get in school around other

1095
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:20,600
Speaker 1: people who don't live that and you go, oh, I'm different.

1096
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 1: You know, this is different. And I remember my dad

1097
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:26,759
Speaker 1: used to tell the story, but it's so true because

1098
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:28,360
Speaker 1: I remember I went over to this kid's house. His

1099
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:31,680
Speaker 1: name was Cliff, and I was probably in second grade,

1100
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 1: and Cliff's dad was was a doctor. And so when

1101
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:38,359
Speaker 1: my dad, my dad came over to pick me up

1102
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:42,000
Speaker 1: from this play date, and Cliff goes, oh, hi, Dr Jennings, right,

1103
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:45,680
Speaker 1: because he thought everybody's dad was doctor something. And it

1104
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:48,080
Speaker 1: was kind of that effect, you know. I And it

1105
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 1: was weird because like I remember, as a kid, like

1106
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:54,279
Speaker 1: before I was born, my dad used to party, right,

1107
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:57,560
Speaker 1: and I was unaware of this. It never affected me

1108
00:54:57,680 --> 00:55:00,520
Speaker 1: as a child. I never saw him. You know, he

1109
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 1: did cocaine and stuff before they did pills whatever it

1110
00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 1: was what they all did or whatever, But like he

1111
00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:07,439
Speaker 1: was never a drinker ever, So like I never saw

1112
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:10,239
Speaker 1: any of this, but when I got in school, he

1113
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:14,240
Speaker 1: was concerned that I would hear this because other parents

1114
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:16,759
Speaker 1: knew and he had at one point gotten busted for

1115
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:19,000
Speaker 1: this whole thing with drugs at one time and didn't

1116
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:21,440
Speaker 1: go to jail or anything, but it was like a

1117
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:25,040
Speaker 1: whole thing and uh, and so he was really worried

1118
00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:27,560
Speaker 1: I'd find out that kind of stuff in school, and

1119
00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:30,799
Speaker 1: you know, I understand, but you know, I think he

1120
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 1: thought I was gonna be disappointed in him or be

1121
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:36,680
Speaker 1: embarrassed by him or something. And I never found out

1122
00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 1: it that way. In fact, he tried to tell me

1123
00:55:39,719 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 1: many times, and I remember clearly one time him saying,

1124
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:45,479
Speaker 1: you know, a long time ago, and then he said,

1125
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:47,719
Speaker 1: I used to cuss a lot because he couldn't bring

1126
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:52,560
Speaker 1: himself to say it. And I think, um, eventually my

1127
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:54,719
Speaker 1: mom or somebody told me, and I was kind of like,

1128
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:58,000
Speaker 1: so like, I didn't, you know, it didn't even really

1129
00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:02,279
Speaker 1: rattle me, but he, um, you know. So there was

1130
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 1: a lot of like weird. I don't know why I

1131
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:05,680
Speaker 1: brought that up, but there's a lot of weird elements

1132
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:09,200
Speaker 1: growing up with all of this, but they seemed very normal,

1133
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:12,280
Speaker 1: and I don't think I think maybe I realized that

1134
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:15,080
Speaker 1: that that he was a big deal and that like

1135
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:20,200
Speaker 1: what it all was once Like other parents like we're

1136
00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:23,040
Speaker 1: like kind of that's Waal and Jennings or like this,

1137
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:26,359
Speaker 1: but you know, it just kind of was how it was.

1138
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:28,120
Speaker 1: And I remember I would go to the mall with

1139
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:30,799
Speaker 1: my dad and I would tell him like just put

1140
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 1: on a hat and tell him you're his cousin or something,

1141
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:34,479
Speaker 1: because I would be like get annoyed that people would

1142
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:37,200
Speaker 1: bother him for autographs and stuff, you know, and when

1143
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:39,240
Speaker 1: he would go out, like I don't know, it was weird.

1144
00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:41,720
Speaker 1: It was just a weird thing. It's hard to explain

1145
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:45,000
Speaker 1: when you're when you grow up in it. And like again,

1146
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:49,280
Speaker 1: my dad was like very present and very very kind

1147
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:52,680
Speaker 1: and very like a big kid. So I never had

1148
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:55,920
Speaker 1: any like misgivings about it, you know, I he just

1149
00:56:56,080 --> 00:57:00,120
Speaker 1: he just was always just a kind guy to me,

1150
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:02,479
Speaker 1: a kind dad. I mean, he didn't have his grumpy days,

1151
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:06,279
Speaker 1: but just like any anybody you know, but but he

1152
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:08,920
Speaker 1: was he was a wonderful, wonderful guy. So he always

1153
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:11,120
Speaker 1: made me feel very comfortable. So it all made sense.

1154
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:13,400
Speaker 1: And so what kind of kid were you? In school?

1155
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:17,400
Speaker 1: Remember the group outsider, A good student, bad student. I

1156
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:20,360
Speaker 1: was not very popular because I was. I was. I

1157
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:22,560
Speaker 1: was a good student. I mean it wasn't like straight

1158
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:26,440
Speaker 1: a's or anything like I I struggled with math at

1159
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:29,320
Speaker 1: certain times, and like, you know whatever, like any other kid,

1160
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:33,280
Speaker 1: I guess, I was. I was just kind of a loaner.

1161
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:35,439
Speaker 1: I had friends. I was. I was a nerdy kid,

1162
00:57:35,560 --> 00:57:37,440
Speaker 1: like I had got a computer at a very young

1163
00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:41,920
Speaker 1: age and was really into computers and like early video

1164
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:45,720
Speaker 1: games and things like that. And and I had made

1165
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 1: friends that were like that. And I went to like

1166
00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:51,600
Speaker 1: I went to an elementary school that I really liked

1167
00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 1: in Nashville, and I had my best friends were triplets.

1168
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:57,600
Speaker 1: There was a set of triplets named the Sanders who

1169
00:57:57,600 --> 00:57:59,840
Speaker 1: I'm still friends with this day, that were my best friends.

1170
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:02,640
Speaker 1: And there was another kid named Jonathan Body who went

1171
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:06,520
Speaker 1: on to start my first band with me, and another

1172
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:09,120
Speaker 1: kid named Matt Reeser who was also in my first band.

1173
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:13,000
Speaker 1: And then um. I went to another school called m

1174
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:15,960
Speaker 1: b A in Nashville that was like an all boys

1175
00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:19,040
Speaker 1: like private school, and I hated it. I was really not.

1176
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:21,160
Speaker 1: I didn't I didn't get along with anybody there. It

1177
00:58:21,240 --> 00:58:24,240
Speaker 1: was a lot of preppy kind of job kids. That

1178
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:26,400
Speaker 1: friend Matt Resur, went there, but he was the only

1179
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:28,560
Speaker 1: friend I had, and I was really miserable there. And

1180
00:58:28,600 --> 00:58:31,160
Speaker 1: then I went to a kind of liberal arts school

1181
00:58:31,720 --> 00:58:34,320
Speaker 1: called University School of Nashville for the last two years,

1182
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:36,280
Speaker 1: and I loved it, and I may and and my

1183
00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:38,880
Speaker 1: friend Jonathan Bodie he had gone there, so I was like,

1184
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:40,360
Speaker 1: I want to go where he went. And I went

1185
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:44,760
Speaker 1: there and and loved it, and and I really I

1186
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:46,919
Speaker 1: made a lot of friends, and I had a lot

1187
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:49,720
Speaker 1: of music loving friends. And again, you know, I was

1188
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:53,160
Speaker 1: in the nine inch nails and ministry and found like

1189
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:55,360
Speaker 1: minded people that were into the same kind of stuff.

1190
00:58:55,360 --> 00:58:57,160
Speaker 1: And there was like a record and you could walk around.

1191
00:58:57,280 --> 00:58:59,680
Speaker 1: It was kind of downtown Nashville. Ish was in like

1192
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:03,720
Speaker 1: the Underbuld area, and you could walk around off campus

1193
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:06,440
Speaker 1: and go eat for lunch. And my dad's office was

1194
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:09,920
Speaker 1: like two blocks away, so I would like drive or

1195
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:13,160
Speaker 1: walk down to where his office was and hang out

1196
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:15,360
Speaker 1: with Nicki Mitchell, who was he ran his office and

1197
00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:18,880
Speaker 1: was his manager for a long time. And I would

1198
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:20,080
Speaker 1: go down there and hang out with them. You know,

1199
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:22,000
Speaker 1: I just had it. Just my life changed. I was

1200
00:59:22,040 --> 00:59:24,920
Speaker 1: like happy, and I was really falling in love with music,

1201
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:28,320
Speaker 1: and I loved my teachers, and like, in fact, like

1202
00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:31,720
Speaker 1: next next Wednesday, we're released. I'm releasing some material I

1203
00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:33,360
Speaker 1: recorded a couple of years ago I never put out,

1204
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:35,919
Speaker 1: And one of them is for this art teacher Jeane

1205
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:38,040
Speaker 1: size More who passed away. He was who was an

1206
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:40,320
Speaker 1: art teacher there, who I hung out with many years after.

1207
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:43,160
Speaker 1: I go over and smoke cigarettes with and stuff and

1208
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:46,120
Speaker 1: listen to the blues and anyway, like like you know,

1209
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:48,880
Speaker 1: I just really fell in love with life in those

1210
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:50,920
Speaker 1: last two years. And I think I was a better student.

1211
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:53,920
Speaker 1: I started paying attention more because it wasn't like these

1212
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:56,000
Speaker 1: teachers that were kind of like you gotta learn this,

1213
00:59:56,120 --> 00:59:58,160
Speaker 1: you gotta do this. It was like these teachers I had,

1214
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:00,160
Speaker 1: Like I had this English teacher named Elizabeth cobe All

1215
01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:03,400
Speaker 1: who like turned me on too, like turned us onto

1216
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:07,200
Speaker 1: Joseph Campbell and showed us Barton Fink and the Coen

1217
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:09,880
Speaker 1: Brothers like stuff in school, and like I was like, wow,

1218
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:13,200
Speaker 1: like I love this. I love literature. Like before that

1219
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:15,000
Speaker 1: it was all work, you know, and and so it

1220
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:17,840
Speaker 1: just kind of it mattered. And that was the that

1221
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 1: was the spot where I think I really enjoyed school

1222
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:22,880
Speaker 1: was his last two years. You know what about going

1223
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:25,280
Speaker 1: to college. I didn't go. I didn't want to go.

1224
01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:27,800
Speaker 1: I was like, I wanted to be in music. There's

1225
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:29,320
Speaker 1: certain things I regret about it. And I tell my

1226
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 1: daughter this, because my daughter is fourteen and she's into music.

1227
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:34,720
Speaker 1: She's done the exact same thing. She's so into it,

1228
01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:37,760
Speaker 1: plays piano, and she's like, why do I need to

1229
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:39,800
Speaker 1: go to college? And I'm like, you know, I had

1230
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:42,600
Speaker 1: the same thing. I took a year off. I was like,

1231
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:44,600
Speaker 1: can I take a year off? I want to work

1232
01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:46,200
Speaker 1: on music a little bit. And my dad was like, yeah,

1233
01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:47,520
Speaker 1: you can take a year off. And I was looking

1234
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:50,280
Speaker 1: at like I got accepted to Berkeley and I was

1235
01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:54,040
Speaker 1: looking at full sale and I was like, um, you know,

1236
01:00:54,320 --> 01:00:56,240
Speaker 1: music stuff. And I was like, I wanted to a

1237
01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:58,200
Speaker 1: year off. And then and then after the first year,

1238
01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:00,880
Speaker 1: I was like, and I just want to move to

1239
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:04,600
Speaker 1: l A. And my dad was like, no, please, don't please.

1240
01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:06,720
Speaker 1: And I was like, he's like, you're gonna be a

1241
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:08,440
Speaker 1: little fish in a big pond there, and you're a

1242
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:10,160
Speaker 1: big fish and a little pond here. And I was like,

1243
01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:12,840
Speaker 1: I said, I really want to do it, this is

1244
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:14,800
Speaker 1: my chance, like I really felt it, you know, And

1245
01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:17,360
Speaker 1: so I made the decision not to He supported me,

1246
01:01:17,560 --> 01:01:19,600
Speaker 1: but he knew, he knew. He saw me in my

1247
01:01:19,640 --> 01:01:21,560
Speaker 1: band play and he told my mom one night he said,

1248
01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:23,960
Speaker 1: I feel like I can rest like the music is

1249
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:25,520
Speaker 1: in good hands. That was a very sweet thing. I

1250
01:01:25,560 --> 01:01:28,120
Speaker 1: don't know if that was an accurate thing, but he

1251
01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:30,600
Speaker 1: but that's what he said. So he he really believed

1252
01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:33,520
Speaker 1: in me and supported me. So I came out to

1253
01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:34,840
Speaker 1: l A and just did it, you know. But I

1254
01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:37,320
Speaker 1: tell my daughter, I'm like, I do wish I had

1255
01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:39,880
Speaker 1: had to read more. I wish I read a lot now.

1256
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:41,760
Speaker 1: But you know, when I moved to l A, I

1257
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:44,080
Speaker 1: just stopped all the education and I was like in

1258
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:46,240
Speaker 1: a rock and roll band and I and I'm like,

1259
01:01:46,280 --> 01:01:50,480
Speaker 1: I wish I wish I had a learned cryptography. I

1260
01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:53,640
Speaker 1: wish I had a learned more programming and my I'm

1261
01:01:53,720 --> 01:01:57,200
Speaker 1: learning it now, but I feel handicapped by it. And

1262
01:01:57,200 --> 01:01:59,640
Speaker 1: and I wish that I had have had more extensive

1263
01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:03,280
Speaker 1: literature your classes, because I didn't read Rimbo and I

1264
01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:06,160
Speaker 1: didn't read until like late and I'm just getting into

1265
01:02:06,200 --> 01:02:09,360
Speaker 1: it now. And like I love like Hemingway, but I've

1266
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:11,200
Speaker 1: only read like one book of his. You know, I

1267
01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:13,480
Speaker 1: loved Bukawski. I've read a bunch of his poetry and

1268
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:15,400
Speaker 1: a bunch of his books. But in the last couple

1269
01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:18,520
Speaker 1: of years, like I really wish I had a hadn't

1270
01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:20,080
Speaker 1: done all that. But I don't know if college would

1271
01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:22,320
Speaker 1: have been for me, because because going all the way

1272
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:24,920
Speaker 1: with all the other courses, I don't I think I

1273
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:28,760
Speaker 1: would have been too frustrated to because I wanted to

1274
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:31,840
Speaker 1: make music right away. You know what I mean? Okay,

1275
01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:36,040
Speaker 1: music is the family business. That's both the blessing and

1276
01:02:36,080 --> 01:02:40,200
Speaker 1: a curse. So tell me about that. I mean, how

1277
01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:42,960
Speaker 1: you decide to go in the family business. Inherently you're

1278
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:47,640
Speaker 1: in your father's shadow. Well, you know, it's so weird

1279
01:02:47,680 --> 01:02:49,480
Speaker 1: because I almost looked at what I was doing is

1280
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:52,920
Speaker 1: a completely different business. Because I loved country music, but

1281
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:56,200
Speaker 1: I had not fallen in love with it like I

1282
01:02:56,200 --> 01:02:58,640
Speaker 1: I loved my dad's music, and I knew my dad's music,

1283
01:02:58,680 --> 01:03:00,720
Speaker 1: and I knew Willie's music, and I would listen to

1284
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:04,040
Speaker 1: my dad like but I was an MTV kid. I listened.

1285
01:03:04,120 --> 01:03:07,520
Speaker 1: I listened to you know, my first record I bought

1286
01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:09,640
Speaker 1: with my own money. Was Dad's a one, and I

1287
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:12,280
Speaker 1: like had like guns and Roses was a big band.

1288
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:14,400
Speaker 1: And I would go to Sam Goody and I would

1289
01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:17,520
Speaker 1: watch MTV and I would watch like all of that

1290
01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:20,680
Speaker 1: the real world, and I was I was really in

1291
01:03:20,800 --> 01:03:23,520
Speaker 1: that world, and that was a completely different world than

1292
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:26,280
Speaker 1: what my dad was, you know. And in Nashville had

1293
01:03:26,320 --> 01:03:29,760
Speaker 1: no appeal to me because at the time, Garth Brooks

1294
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:33,040
Speaker 1: and all of that was big and I was too

1295
01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:36,160
Speaker 1: young to know about the Layla's scene like where three

1296
01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:37,880
Speaker 1: came out of and b R five for nine and

1297
01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:40,560
Speaker 1: all that that. I wasn't into that at the time.

1298
01:03:40,640 --> 01:03:44,160
Speaker 1: I was like, I thought, in my mind, Okay, I'm

1299
01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:46,240
Speaker 1: gonna be in a rock band. So there's two places

1300
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:48,320
Speaker 1: to go. It's the l A or New York. And

1301
01:03:48,360 --> 01:03:51,560
Speaker 1: I had loved l A from a little kid, like

1302
01:03:51,640 --> 01:03:55,480
Speaker 1: my dad. I came here when I mean, I don't

1303
01:03:55,480 --> 01:03:57,600
Speaker 1: know if I was five years old. My dad was

1304
01:03:57,600 --> 01:04:01,800
Speaker 1: shooting um this stage Coach remake they did with all

1305
01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:04,840
Speaker 1: the Highwayman guys in it, and we stayed in like

1306
01:04:04,920 --> 01:04:08,000
Speaker 1: Beverly Hills, which is like hoity toity, I know, but

1307
01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:10,440
Speaker 1: it's like, uh, we stayed at a hotel, and I

1308
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:14,120
Speaker 1: would make my mom take me over to I have

1309
01:04:14,160 --> 01:04:15,960
Speaker 1: like a second mom that lived and traveled with his

1310
01:04:16,040 --> 01:04:18,840
Speaker 1: name Maureen Rafferty, who who was like still a saint

1311
01:04:18,840 --> 01:04:21,680
Speaker 1: in my life, and I would have her take me

1312
01:04:21,720 --> 01:04:25,200
Speaker 1: into Hollywood because because I was obsessed with the Muppet movie.

1313
01:04:25,720 --> 01:04:28,400
Speaker 1: I love the Muppets, and they went to Hollywood, and

1314
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:30,440
Speaker 1: there was this vision in my mind that that was

1315
01:04:30,480 --> 01:04:32,600
Speaker 1: the dream Factory, that that's really the reason why I

1316
01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:34,000
Speaker 1: moved to you know, I love it, you know, at

1317
01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:37,080
Speaker 1: the end with Worston Wells, Yeah, yeah, tell you. I'll

1318
01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:41,880
Speaker 1: tell him to write the standard Richard Famous contract, oh yeah.

1319
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:44,320
Speaker 1: And Paul Williams and the whole thing, like that movie

1320
01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:48,000
Speaker 1: in itself was like like a training course of the

1321
01:04:48,040 --> 01:04:50,680
Speaker 1: greats of film and music in a weird way, you know.

1322
01:04:51,240 --> 01:04:53,560
Speaker 1: And so I was as a kid just obsessed with it,

1323
01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:55,360
Speaker 1: and I would like want to go into Hollywood, you know,

1324
01:04:55,440 --> 01:04:58,440
Speaker 1: and so so it kind of was always in my mind.

1325
01:04:58,960 --> 01:05:00,880
Speaker 1: And I still tell people it's like the Muppet Movie

1326
01:05:00,920 --> 01:05:02,440
Speaker 1: was the first thing that made me want to move here,

1327
01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:05,160
Speaker 1: and and it really and it's still it's so weird.

1328
01:05:05,160 --> 01:05:07,600
Speaker 1: I'm forty two years old and I still have the

1329
01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:09,640
Speaker 1: same feeling I had as a little kid here, like

1330
01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:12,360
Speaker 1: even just the history. Like I said, I love Bikowski,

1331
01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:15,600
Speaker 1: and I love like Marilynn row locations, and I love

1332
01:05:15,640 --> 01:05:18,880
Speaker 1: like all the band like the Warren Zevon and all

1333
01:05:18,880 --> 01:05:21,400
Speaker 1: the pockets of history, and I still get this feeling

1334
01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:24,000
Speaker 1: like it's still such a magical place to me, even

1335
01:05:24,040 --> 01:05:26,880
Speaker 1: even through all the changes that have happened here and

1336
01:05:26,920 --> 01:05:29,480
Speaker 1: all the craziness and how expensive it is, It's like

1337
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:32,040
Speaker 1: there's still a little piece of me that's like I

1338
01:05:32,040 --> 01:05:35,920
Speaker 1: still feel like Kermit the Frog going to Hollywood and

1339
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:38,520
Speaker 1: being here, you know, and and now I feel the

1340
01:05:38,560 --> 01:05:43,280
Speaker 1: same way. I know exactly what you're talking. Are you here, Yeah, yeah,

1341
01:05:43,280 --> 01:05:46,480
Speaker 1: I'm in l a I didn't have since before you

1342
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:48,320
Speaker 1: were born. To me. When I grew up, California was

1343
01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:50,400
Speaker 1: a dream I used to beg my mother, Let's move

1344
01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:54,120
Speaker 1: to California. Let's move to California. I always say I

1345
01:05:54,120 --> 01:05:56,480
Speaker 1: moved to California because of the beach boys. They were

1346
01:05:56,480 --> 01:05:58,520
Speaker 1: seeing about a much better life. And it's just like

1347
01:05:58,600 --> 01:06:00,840
Speaker 1: I came to California, so it's true, Well I'm going there.

1348
01:06:01,240 --> 01:06:03,240
Speaker 1: That sounds like we have a lot in common. Then

1349
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:05,120
Speaker 1: in that way. In that sense, I think I might

1350
01:06:05,120 --> 01:06:06,840
Speaker 1: have known that, but I think for some reason I

1351
01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:08,560
Speaker 1: thought you were on the East Coast. I don't know

1352
01:06:08,600 --> 01:06:11,200
Speaker 1: what I'm thinking, but but like, uh, I don't know

1353
01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:13,560
Speaker 1: what part of town you live in, but but I've

1354
01:06:13,600 --> 01:06:16,040
Speaker 1: kind of moved all around and I love this town

1355
01:06:16,080 --> 01:06:17,920
Speaker 1: and I still have that same kind of feeling like

1356
01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:20,280
Speaker 1: them uppets where my beach boys. And then you know,

1357
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:22,400
Speaker 1: then there was like guns and Roses, and of course,

1358
01:06:22,480 --> 01:06:25,120
Speaker 1: like you know, Noted Nails was here and they all

1359
01:06:25,160 --> 01:06:27,880
Speaker 1: these guys had moved here, and I was like, that's

1360
01:06:27,880 --> 01:06:30,280
Speaker 1: where you gotta go. Has you gotta go there? So

1361
01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:33,080
Speaker 1: like in New York, while I loved loved it, it

1362
01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:35,920
Speaker 1: just wasn't my speed. It was like this is the weather.

1363
01:06:36,040 --> 01:06:39,040
Speaker 1: I didn't like the cold winners and and coal and

1364
01:06:39,160 --> 01:06:41,800
Speaker 1: hot human summers. In Nashville, I was like, well what

1365
01:06:41,880 --> 01:06:43,760
Speaker 1: I like about it? You know, you might know Nashville

1366
01:06:43,840 --> 01:06:46,000
Speaker 1: because I grew up in the suburbs, and l A

1367
01:06:46,120 --> 01:06:48,000
Speaker 1: is a giant suburbs. You can have a car, you

1368
01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:51,440
Speaker 1: can park. You know that makes terrible traffic, but it

1369
01:06:51,480 --> 01:06:54,120
Speaker 1: feels comfortably. You're supposed to being in a high rise

1370
01:06:54,240 --> 01:06:58,480
Speaker 1: all glob together. Yeah, totally. It's very similar to like Nashville,

1371
01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:00,840
Speaker 1: Like it was very easy trans issue. It's just like

1372
01:07:01,560 --> 01:07:04,120
Speaker 1: much more beautiful, you know. And and at the time too,

1373
01:07:04,240 --> 01:07:07,480
Speaker 1: my dad was getting sicker and he couldn't handle the

1374
01:07:07,520 --> 01:07:11,240
Speaker 1: cold winters in Nashville, so they would start going to Arizona.

1375
01:07:11,320 --> 01:07:14,000
Speaker 1: My dad always loved Arizona. My mom's from there. They

1376
01:07:14,040 --> 01:07:16,200
Speaker 1: started going to Arizona in the winters, and I was

1377
01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:18,720
Speaker 1: old enough where I would not go all the time.

1378
01:07:18,720 --> 01:07:21,040
Speaker 1: I would stay at home in Nashville. And they rent

1379
01:07:21,080 --> 01:07:23,000
Speaker 1: a house. So when I told him I was going

1380
01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:25,480
Speaker 1: to come here, he was like, His threat to me was, well,

1381
01:07:25,480 --> 01:07:26,959
Speaker 1: then I'm going to sell this house and I'm gonna

1382
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:29,840
Speaker 1: move to Arizona. And I was like, okay, do it, Dad,

1383
01:07:29,920 --> 01:07:31,680
Speaker 1: I'm ready, let's do it, you know, and he was like,

1384
01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:34,120
Speaker 1: damn it. It It didn't work, but but he did, and

1385
01:07:34,160 --> 01:07:36,560
Speaker 1: we just kind of migrated west, you know, and and

1386
01:07:36,640 --> 01:07:39,080
Speaker 1: to me, like it felt like home and then I

1387
01:07:39,080 --> 01:07:41,240
Speaker 1: could get to them very easily. They lived in Arizona.

1388
01:07:41,280 --> 01:07:43,600
Speaker 1: My mom still lives there and I drive down to

1389
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:45,200
Speaker 1: see her and you know all that. So it all

1390
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:47,800
Speaker 1: kind of worked out. But but it was it was

1391
01:07:47,840 --> 01:07:50,680
Speaker 1: the thing. I wanted to come here, and I wanted

1392
01:07:50,680 --> 01:07:52,480
Speaker 1: to skip college and I want to just try my

1393
01:07:52,560 --> 01:07:54,840
Speaker 1: hand at it, and and I wasn't And I didn't

1394
01:07:54,840 --> 01:07:58,960
Speaker 1: like the Wayland's Sun business either, like that. It's as

1395
01:07:59,000 --> 01:08:01,480
Speaker 1: proud as I was about him, I felt like people

1396
01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:04,520
Speaker 1: couldn't see me, you know, and I would. I didn't

1397
01:08:04,520 --> 01:08:07,240
Speaker 1: want to be that. And as many handouts as I

1398
01:08:07,240 --> 01:08:10,840
Speaker 1: could have gotten with it, I really wanted to really

1399
01:08:11,200 --> 01:08:13,240
Speaker 1: do my own thing. And I felt like in l A,

1400
01:08:13,360 --> 01:08:15,720
Speaker 1: I could be this transplant. And it was really like

1401
01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:18,320
Speaker 1: that nobody gave a ship like at all, like you

1402
01:08:18,360 --> 01:08:21,120
Speaker 1: know who my dad was, especially country and stuff there.

1403
01:08:21,160 --> 01:08:23,880
Speaker 1: Occasionally I would meet someone like you met like Jerry

1404
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:26,920
Speaker 1: Cantrell very early on, and he was like, you're Jennings

1405
01:08:26,960 --> 01:08:28,600
Speaker 1: and I was thinking, he's like right on, like he

1406
01:08:28,680 --> 01:08:30,439
Speaker 1: knew he was said to my dad, you know, but

1407
01:08:30,479 --> 01:08:34,000
Speaker 1: there are very few people who were like that, um,

1408
01:08:34,040 --> 01:08:36,559
Speaker 1: so you know. And it did just that, and I

1409
01:08:36,600 --> 01:08:39,840
Speaker 1: felt like it's like I'm I'm proud that I've stayed

1410
01:08:39,880 --> 01:08:41,679
Speaker 1: here because I've had a lot of friends that have left,

1411
01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:43,960
Speaker 1: and I'm proud because I've hung onto it. And I

1412
01:08:44,040 --> 01:08:46,560
Speaker 1: really loved this city. I I go to Nashville. I

1413
01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:48,640
Speaker 1: don't recognize it, but I love Los Angeles and I

1414
01:08:48,640 --> 01:08:51,759
Speaker 1: would do anything for this city. It's given me my children,

1415
01:08:51,800 --> 01:08:53,719
Speaker 1: it's given me my life, it's given me my wife.

1416
01:08:53,760 --> 01:08:56,559
Speaker 1: It's you know, so to me, like, I feel like

1417
01:08:56,560 --> 01:08:59,640
Speaker 1: it was the best decision I ever made. But as

1418
01:08:59,720 --> 01:09:03,960
Speaker 1: long as I can just make enough money to live here. Okay,

1419
01:09:04,040 --> 01:09:09,439
Speaker 1: your father dies when you're young, how does that affect you? Well,

1420
01:09:09,520 --> 01:09:13,200
Speaker 1: you know, you know, it's weird because like I was

1421
01:09:13,200 --> 01:09:15,720
Speaker 1: twenty two, and I remember when it happened, and it

1422
01:09:15,760 --> 01:09:18,439
Speaker 1: was it was a shock, but like at that age,

1423
01:09:20,960 --> 01:09:23,240
Speaker 1: it that I just the other day, I was talking

1424
01:09:23,240 --> 01:09:26,000
Speaker 1: to someone who whose father just died, a young man.

1425
01:09:26,040 --> 01:09:28,600
Speaker 1: I'm trying to remember who it was, and he was

1426
01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:30,439
Speaker 1: saying that He's like, I didn't cry, you know, and

1427
01:09:30,520 --> 01:09:33,920
Speaker 1: I cried, but I was like I felt like I

1428
01:09:33,960 --> 01:09:35,519
Speaker 1: had to be strong, and I was also I just

1429
01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:39,920
Speaker 1: twenty two. You don't really appreciate things. And this is

1430
01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:42,679
Speaker 1: kind of goes back to my apology in the beginning

1431
01:09:42,680 --> 01:09:44,639
Speaker 1: of this too, because it's like, you know, the periods

1432
01:09:44,680 --> 01:09:47,040
Speaker 1: of time in my twenties, I don't know what I

1433
01:09:47,080 --> 01:09:49,280
Speaker 1: was thinking. It's even like with social media, like I'm

1434
01:09:49,320 --> 01:09:51,759
Speaker 1: completely off of it. And I just there were periods

1435
01:09:51,760 --> 01:09:55,840
Speaker 1: of time when I you're so narcissistic in your youth

1436
01:09:56,720 --> 01:09:59,760
Speaker 1: that you don't realize what you're sending out and you

1437
01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:02,800
Speaker 1: don't realize what you're receiving, and you kind of just

1438
01:10:04,080 --> 01:10:06,920
Speaker 1: you're operating on instincts and they're not always right. And

1439
01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:10,479
Speaker 1: I think, like with my dad's dying, at the time,

1440
01:10:11,120 --> 01:10:13,880
Speaker 1: I was like the tough guy, like, I can make

1441
01:10:13,920 --> 01:10:16,720
Speaker 1: it through this. He was sick for a long time,

1442
01:10:16,760 --> 01:10:18,479
Speaker 1: so we were prepared for it. You know, he had

1443
01:10:18,479 --> 01:10:20,840
Speaker 1: been he had been struggling with his health for for

1444
01:10:20,880 --> 01:10:24,720
Speaker 1: a good five six years, so you know, there was

1445
01:10:24,760 --> 01:10:28,479
Speaker 1: definitely not easy, but it was it. I just kind

1446
01:10:28,479 --> 01:10:31,760
Speaker 1: of powered through it. And and at the time I was,

1447
01:10:32,320 --> 01:10:34,240
Speaker 1: I was in the middle of everything we were I

1448
01:10:34,360 --> 01:10:37,000
Speaker 1: just you know, I did my my band broke up

1449
01:10:37,080 --> 01:10:39,559
Speaker 1: that the year right after that, and when I started

1450
01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:42,000
Speaker 1: doing my own thing, and I got in the relationship

1451
01:10:42,040 --> 01:10:46,120
Speaker 1: with my kids mom and uh, we had kind of

1452
01:10:46,120 --> 01:10:49,679
Speaker 1: a whirlwind relationship that happened. And then I was going

1453
01:10:49,720 --> 01:10:52,040
Speaker 1: back and forth, visiting New York and doing all this time.

1454
01:10:52,080 --> 01:10:55,360
Speaker 1: I just never processed any of this, you know, And

1455
01:10:55,360 --> 01:10:57,240
Speaker 1: and then once I had kids, And it's really not

1456
01:10:57,320 --> 01:11:00,599
Speaker 1: even until like the last probably ten years that it's

1457
01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:05,760
Speaker 1: really like I've realized, a I didn't really know what

1458
01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:07,479
Speaker 1: to do in a lot of cases in my life,

1459
01:11:07,520 --> 01:11:09,160
Speaker 1: and I don't know that I made the right decisions,

1460
01:11:09,200 --> 01:11:11,719
Speaker 1: but I I was always operating on what I thought

1461
01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:15,000
Speaker 1: he would do, but I never I always I kind

1462
01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:16,720
Speaker 1: of had to defend for myself in a way, even

1463
01:11:16,760 --> 01:11:20,040
Speaker 1: though my mom is awesome and strong, you know, But

1464
01:11:20,240 --> 01:11:23,400
Speaker 1: it definitely, it definitely kind of cut it kind of

1465
01:11:23,439 --> 01:11:26,200
Speaker 1: stunted one part of my growth, you know, especially because

1466
01:11:26,240 --> 01:11:29,640
Speaker 1: of how uh close my dad and I were, you

1467
01:11:29,640 --> 01:11:32,200
Speaker 1: know what I mean. But again, like I didn't really

1468
01:11:32,280 --> 01:11:35,439
Speaker 1: mourn it. I didn't really. I had never really mourned

1469
01:11:35,479 --> 01:11:37,920
Speaker 1: it in a weird way. It's like I kind of gradually,

1470
01:11:37,960 --> 01:11:40,519
Speaker 1: I think, started to mourn it, but more in his death.

1471
01:11:40,560 --> 01:11:43,479
Speaker 1: But man, but it was weird because like once I

1472
01:11:43,920 --> 01:11:49,320
Speaker 1: released my first single, my first sorry solo record, is

1473
01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:52,200
Speaker 1: when I like started to feel the shadow. I had

1474
01:11:52,240 --> 01:11:54,360
Speaker 1: never felt that before because I had this rock band

1475
01:11:54,400 --> 01:11:56,240
Speaker 1: in l A and then all this. So I'm doing

1476
01:11:56,280 --> 01:11:58,360
Speaker 1: these records that are kind of country themed and I'm

1477
01:11:58,400 --> 01:12:01,360
Speaker 1: kind of like giving my day, add using like the

1478
01:12:01,400 --> 01:12:04,240
Speaker 1: Whyland logo on them because I was like proudly flying it,

1479
01:12:04,400 --> 01:12:06,479
Speaker 1: you know, in his absence, and he'd only been dead

1480
01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:09,639
Speaker 1: two years or so, so I was kind of like

1481
01:12:09,640 --> 01:12:13,240
Speaker 1: like embracing his legacy and doing my own thing with it.

1482
01:12:13,840 --> 01:12:17,240
Speaker 1: And I realized very quickly, like oh wow, like like

1483
01:12:17,320 --> 01:12:20,720
Speaker 1: that shadow thing it exists out there. Doesn't exist here

1484
01:12:20,720 --> 01:12:23,439
Speaker 1: in l A, but it exists once I put myself

1485
01:12:23,479 --> 01:12:25,360
Speaker 1: out there, you know. So that was also my own

1486
01:12:25,439 --> 01:12:29,519
Speaker 1: kind of like struggle with it and understanding it without

1487
01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:32,880
Speaker 1: him here, you know. Um. But but at the same time,

1488
01:12:32,920 --> 01:12:36,200
Speaker 1: like you know, it wasn't until like I had my kids,

1489
01:12:36,280 --> 01:12:39,720
Speaker 1: and then that changed because my daughter Alabama's fourteen now,

1490
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:43,040
Speaker 1: like she's like just we're a lot a lot alike,

1491
01:12:43,240 --> 01:12:45,920
Speaker 1: and she's very in her own head and creative, and

1492
01:12:46,280 --> 01:12:48,880
Speaker 1: I can do everything by myself and very independent. And

1493
01:12:48,960 --> 01:12:51,439
Speaker 1: my son, who is we call black Jack, but his

1494
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:55,520
Speaker 1: name is Whalen. Also he uh, he's like a little barbarian,

1495
01:12:55,600 --> 01:12:58,160
Speaker 1: like he likes, he likes he's really into computers, really

1496
01:12:58,160 --> 01:12:59,800
Speaker 1: in the video games, so that that side of me

1497
01:12:59,880 --> 01:13:01,920
Speaker 1: is there, but he's like doesn't know what he's gonna

1498
01:13:01,920 --> 01:13:04,080
Speaker 1: do quite with his life. But he's like into everything,

1499
01:13:04,200 --> 01:13:06,719
Speaker 1: you know. And once I kind of like as a parent,

1500
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:10,120
Speaker 1: kind of saw what it was like and what the

1501
01:13:10,160 --> 01:13:13,839
Speaker 1: responsibility was and how the relationship could be, it started

1502
01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:16,280
Speaker 1: to get I started to mourn my dad, but I

1503
01:13:16,320 --> 01:13:19,519
Speaker 1: also started to understand aside that I didn't understand before,

1504
01:13:20,080 --> 01:13:22,880
Speaker 1: which is just like how attentive he was to me,

1505
01:13:23,240 --> 01:13:26,320
Speaker 1: because it would been like my old older brothers and sisters,

1506
01:13:26,400 --> 01:13:29,880
Speaker 1: Like they got the Whalon that was on the road

1507
01:13:30,360 --> 01:13:33,000
Speaker 1: in the very early parts of his career. They lived

1508
01:13:33,000 --> 01:13:34,519
Speaker 1: with their mom and Texas for a long time. Then

1509
01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:36,760
Speaker 1: they came and worked for him on the road, so

1510
01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:39,400
Speaker 1: they were there for all the crazy stuff in the seventies,

1511
01:13:39,439 --> 01:13:42,800
Speaker 1: you know, I got the older, kinder, gentler Whalon that

1512
01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:46,080
Speaker 1: was in his forties and and cleaning his act up

1513
01:13:46,120 --> 01:13:49,559
Speaker 1: and going into this like legacy twilight phase of his career,

1514
01:13:49,600 --> 01:13:51,880
Speaker 1: and he was very attentive to me, like and I

1515
01:13:51,920 --> 01:13:55,640
Speaker 1: think I was. I realized how attentive he was to

1516
01:13:55,680 --> 01:13:57,920
Speaker 1: me after I had kids and realized how important it

1517
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:00,559
Speaker 1: was to be attentive to them and how much it meant,

1518
01:14:00,600 --> 01:14:02,519
Speaker 1: how much it fulfilled something in me, you know what

1519
01:14:02,520 --> 01:14:14,439
Speaker 1: I mean? Okay, your father dies, their assets, songs, records, uh,

1520
01:14:14,560 --> 01:14:18,080
Speaker 1: name and likeness. Do you benefit financially from any of

1521
01:14:18,120 --> 01:14:21,559
Speaker 1: that or your that's all your mother or when she passes,

1522
01:14:21,680 --> 01:14:24,080
Speaker 1: will you benefit or you have to share it with people?

1523
01:14:24,280 --> 01:14:27,600
Speaker 1: What's going on there? Well, there's uh, you know, I

1524
01:14:27,640 --> 01:14:29,479
Speaker 1: didn't we didn't like when he passed away, Like the

1525
01:14:29,520 --> 01:14:32,439
Speaker 1: trust is in my mom's name and all that, and

1526
01:14:32,920 --> 01:14:35,680
Speaker 1: there are certain things that of course will go to

1527
01:14:36,600 --> 01:14:39,280
Speaker 1: all my other brothers and sisters. They're like a couple

1528
01:14:39,320 --> 01:14:42,160
Speaker 1: of have passed away, but like my brother Buddy, and

1529
01:14:42,600 --> 01:14:45,479
Speaker 1: there's grandchildren and everything like like for instance, the Dukes

1530
01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:48,759
Speaker 1: of Hazard song, the publishing from that song is split

1531
01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:52,640
Speaker 1: across all the kids and grandkids already, so that that

1532
01:14:52,640 --> 01:14:55,040
Speaker 1: that has happened. But I don't, you know, I never

1533
01:14:55,080 --> 01:14:58,360
Speaker 1: got like some payout and and I don't really anticipate

1534
01:14:58,439 --> 01:15:01,880
Speaker 1: one because a lot of that, you know was me

1535
01:15:01,920 --> 01:15:03,639
Speaker 1: and my my A lot of that was my mom

1536
01:15:03,640 --> 01:15:08,760
Speaker 1: and my dad's legacy, and she, while she is maintained

1537
01:15:08,800 --> 01:15:12,280
Speaker 1: it and kept up with it. Um you know, that's

1538
01:15:12,320 --> 01:15:16,080
Speaker 1: that's basically been her thing that you know when she goes.

1539
01:15:16,640 --> 01:15:19,280
Speaker 1: I know, my sister Jennifer, that's her daughter and everything.

1540
01:15:19,400 --> 01:15:23,559
Speaker 1: I'm sure, you know, I'm sure like certain things will

1541
01:15:23,560 --> 01:15:26,599
Speaker 1: get transferred where they are and I know what goes

1542
01:15:26,640 --> 01:15:29,160
Speaker 1: where and everything. But to me, like that's all, it's

1543
01:15:29,160 --> 01:15:30,960
Speaker 1: all part of his legacy. And I like hate the

1544
01:15:31,000 --> 01:15:34,360
Speaker 1: idea of even thinking about that because it's like again

1545
01:15:34,520 --> 01:15:38,320
Speaker 1: like I never looked at his thing as a monetary thing,

1546
01:15:38,360 --> 01:15:41,960
Speaker 1: like I look, I deal with his his legacy all

1547
01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:45,280
Speaker 1: the time, Like I started the merchandise company that we do.

1548
01:15:45,400 --> 01:15:48,400
Speaker 1: I I've been working to do a film about his life.

1549
01:15:48,479 --> 01:15:50,960
Speaker 1: I have all these masters that we're going through and

1550
01:15:51,200 --> 01:15:54,320
Speaker 1: I'm involved in all of the kind of legacy stuff.

1551
01:15:54,360 --> 01:15:56,960
Speaker 1: We just signed a deal with a great guy, Philip

1552
01:15:57,080 --> 01:16:01,240
Speaker 1: phil Sandhouse, who works at um W ME Legends to

1553
01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:04,320
Speaker 1: manage the estate. We've stayed away from that for a

1554
01:16:04,320 --> 01:16:07,000
Speaker 1: long time. We did it ourselves, and now I really

1555
01:16:07,040 --> 01:16:09,800
Speaker 1: felt like we we found the right partner and we

1556
01:16:09,840 --> 01:16:12,000
Speaker 1: needed to to kind of move it that way because

1557
01:16:12,640 --> 01:16:14,760
Speaker 1: and you talk to my mom, She'll say, you better

1558
01:16:14,760 --> 01:16:17,040
Speaker 1: get a movie out. All the Whitland fans are dying.

1559
01:16:17,280 --> 01:16:19,760
Speaker 1: And I'm like, you know, she says stuff like that,

1560
01:16:19,840 --> 01:16:23,160
Speaker 1: and so in that keeping that kind of jokingly but

1561
01:16:23,160 --> 01:16:25,080
Speaker 1: but like keeping all that in mind. I really felt

1562
01:16:25,120 --> 01:16:28,360
Speaker 1: like at this point, I'm getting so busy, I'm getting older,

1563
01:16:28,800 --> 01:16:30,760
Speaker 1: my mom's getting older, Like we need to like put

1564
01:16:30,800 --> 01:16:33,200
Speaker 1: this in the hands of somebody that can really manage

1565
01:16:33,240 --> 01:16:37,360
Speaker 1: it and grow it and recapture masters and do things

1566
01:16:37,400 --> 01:16:40,120
Speaker 1: that we've tried to do but never had like the

1567
01:16:40,160 --> 01:16:42,920
Speaker 1: reach in the in the power to do. So that's

1568
01:16:42,920 --> 01:16:44,880
Speaker 1: been cool, but I'm I'm involved in all that. But

1569
01:16:44,920 --> 01:16:48,240
Speaker 1: as far as like pay out after you know, what

1570
01:16:48,320 --> 01:16:50,160
Speaker 1: happens happens, I look at it like it's going to

1571
01:16:50,280 --> 01:16:52,519
Speaker 1: go to my kids whatever I get, And I look

1572
01:16:52,520 --> 01:16:54,320
Speaker 1: at I look, I'm already at a place in my

1573
01:16:54,360 --> 01:16:56,240
Speaker 1: life where everything I do is to try and set

1574
01:16:56,320 --> 01:16:59,439
Speaker 1: up a life for them or at least leave something

1575
01:16:59,520 --> 01:17:03,559
Speaker 1: for them. So to me, that will be awesome if

1576
01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:06,040
Speaker 1: if some of that comes and helps their life. But

1577
01:17:06,080 --> 01:17:08,920
Speaker 1: I'm looking at it like I gotta do that all

1578
01:17:08,960 --> 01:17:11,720
Speaker 1: by myself, and if that happens, it happens. I hope

1579
01:17:11,720 --> 01:17:13,920
Speaker 1: my mom never dies. I hope they figured a way

1580
01:17:13,920 --> 01:17:15,880
Speaker 1: to make her a cyborg and she lasts longer than

1581
01:17:15,880 --> 01:17:19,600
Speaker 1: everybody else, you know. So so it is what it is.

1582
01:17:19,720 --> 01:17:23,200
Speaker 1: But Okay, a lot of the records you were involved

1583
01:17:23,200 --> 01:17:29,240
Speaker 1: with can be classified under the Americana umbrella. So tell

1584
01:17:29,240 --> 01:17:31,360
Speaker 1: me what do you think about that scene and where

1585
01:17:31,400 --> 01:17:36,519
Speaker 1: it fits in the overall scene. Well, I have I

1586
01:17:36,600 --> 01:17:39,040
Speaker 1: have opinions on it because Okay, first of all, like

1587
01:17:39,080 --> 01:17:41,479
Speaker 1: I love Jed Hilly, and he's been very kind to me,

1588
01:17:41,640 --> 01:17:45,600
Speaker 1: and he's been very kind to the whole scene. I

1589
01:17:45,680 --> 01:17:48,000
Speaker 1: know that, like the Americana thing was kind of born

1590
01:17:48,080 --> 01:17:50,840
Speaker 1: out of this John pryor Nammy Lou Harris era of

1591
01:17:50,880 --> 01:17:54,040
Speaker 1: things that were happening, and so I look at it

1592
01:17:54,400 --> 01:17:58,080
Speaker 1: as a great thing. But I have this other opinion

1593
01:17:58,920 --> 01:18:01,479
Speaker 1: that I remember like Tyler Children, and I always felt

1594
01:18:01,520 --> 01:18:05,040
Speaker 1: this way. And and he's a I love him, He's

1595
01:18:05,040 --> 01:18:07,080
Speaker 1: a good friend of mine, and and he's he's an

1596
01:18:07,120 --> 01:18:12,040
Speaker 1: amazing singer. And I always felt like and and Jed Hilly,

1597
01:18:12,080 --> 01:18:14,559
Speaker 1: like I said, God bless him. I love love what

1598
01:18:14,600 --> 01:18:18,200
Speaker 1: he's doing. But I kind of felt like when you

1599
01:18:18,320 --> 01:18:22,519
Speaker 1: created Americana, it created a license to root for country,

1600
01:18:22,600 --> 01:18:25,960
Speaker 1: to go down the gutter. And I feel like had

1601
01:18:26,080 --> 01:18:29,880
Speaker 1: there never been Americana, that maybe a lot of these

1602
01:18:29,920 --> 01:18:33,760
Speaker 1: other artists would have been kind of considered country, and

1603
01:18:33,840 --> 01:18:36,120
Speaker 1: it might have it might have kind of kept us

1604
01:18:36,200 --> 01:18:39,160
Speaker 1: from they kept country from maybe going as far down

1605
01:18:39,160 --> 01:18:42,559
Speaker 1: the path as it currently has. That that being said,

1606
01:18:42,960 --> 01:18:44,719
Speaker 1: we don't I don't know that that is the case.

1607
01:18:45,080 --> 01:18:47,559
Speaker 1: I definitely don't know if like shovels and rope would

1608
01:18:47,560 --> 01:18:50,280
Speaker 1: have been gotten the chance that they got in the

1609
01:18:50,320 --> 01:18:53,080
Speaker 1: country Moniker. And at the end of the day, I

1610
01:18:53,120 --> 01:18:55,920
Speaker 1: think genres are kind of outdated in the first place,

1611
01:18:55,960 --> 01:18:57,920
Speaker 1: because they were always just a marketing tool for radio

1612
01:18:57,960 --> 01:19:00,840
Speaker 1: and stores, which are both kind of gone. But you know,

1613
01:19:01,560 --> 01:19:05,120
Speaker 1: I always felt like Americana was like creating an area

1614
01:19:05,840 --> 01:19:08,960
Speaker 1: for for the country world to say, no, that's not us,

1615
01:19:09,000 --> 01:19:11,240
Speaker 1: that's to us to this, put it over to Americana,

1616
01:19:11,320 --> 01:19:13,000
Speaker 1: you know, and it kind of like created a ditch

1617
01:19:13,080 --> 01:19:16,320
Speaker 1: to throw all the stuff that that was expanding the

1618
01:19:16,360 --> 01:19:19,000
Speaker 1: borders of country, you know, and this allowed them to

1619
01:19:19,080 --> 01:19:23,160
Speaker 1: kind of keep inside there a little like uh, you

1620
01:19:23,200 --> 01:19:26,200
Speaker 1: know whatever you call it echo chamber, you know. So

1621
01:19:26,200 --> 01:19:30,680
Speaker 1: so I'm kind of conflicted on on it, but I

1622
01:19:30,720 --> 01:19:33,880
Speaker 1: appreciate it, and I appreciate the hard work that has

1623
01:19:33,920 --> 01:19:36,479
Speaker 1: gone into making it become as big as it has.

1624
01:19:36,560 --> 01:19:39,880
Speaker 1: And like, like for instance, Brandy, Brandy was upset that

1625
01:19:40,000 --> 01:19:43,439
Speaker 1: her new record, the Grammy Stuff for Right On Time

1626
01:19:43,560 --> 01:19:46,160
Speaker 1: was considered pop and that was done by the Grammys.

1627
01:19:46,160 --> 01:19:48,920
Speaker 1: They made that choice, and she was upset by it

1628
01:19:49,000 --> 01:19:54,479
Speaker 1: because she felt like, as a LGBTQ woman who had

1629
01:19:54,560 --> 01:19:58,639
Speaker 1: fought like she had to get where she is, that

1630
01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:02,800
Speaker 1: the representation Americana was very important, which I agree, you know,

1631
01:20:02,920 --> 01:20:06,600
Speaker 1: and a representation in country as well. But I, on

1632
01:20:06,640 --> 01:20:08,519
Speaker 1: the other hand, when I spoke to her about this,

1633
01:20:08,640 --> 01:20:11,840
Speaker 1: I was like, I think this is a fantastic thing

1634
01:20:12,000 --> 01:20:16,400
Speaker 1: because look at who is generally in the pop category,

1635
01:20:16,479 --> 01:20:19,040
Speaker 1: and then look what you're doing. And if if you know,

1636
01:20:19,160 --> 01:20:21,400
Speaker 1: on the chance that we win or if we don't,

1637
01:20:21,479 --> 01:20:25,000
Speaker 1: either either way, it's already happened that this has now

1638
01:20:25,080 --> 01:20:28,559
Speaker 1: been accepted as pop. So like, think of how much

1639
01:20:28,600 --> 01:20:33,160
Speaker 1: better pop might get because you're in this this you know,

1640
01:20:33,240 --> 01:20:35,240
Speaker 1: you're you're all of a sudden, they're now going to

1641
01:20:35,320 --> 01:20:37,639
Speaker 1: have to take the plastic stuff and put it next

1642
01:20:37,680 --> 01:20:41,759
Speaker 1: to something that's very real, and I think that's that's

1643
01:20:41,880 --> 01:20:45,200
Speaker 1: a very important thing. So so in that way, I

1644
01:20:45,200 --> 01:20:47,639
Speaker 1: feel like it was a really cool choice. And if

1645
01:20:47,680 --> 01:20:50,080
Speaker 1: she wins, I was like, think how much better music

1646
01:20:50,160 --> 01:20:52,120
Speaker 1: might get, you know, because they're gonna try and copy

1647
01:20:52,200 --> 01:20:55,240
Speaker 1: that success, you know, So I look at it like that,

1648
01:20:55,320 --> 01:20:58,440
Speaker 1: but um, at the same time, you know, it's genres.

1649
01:20:58,479 --> 01:21:00,840
Speaker 1: And Buddy Holly told my Daddy told me at a

1650
01:21:00,920 --> 01:21:03,000
Speaker 1: very young age, he said, Buddy Holly told him. He said,

1651
01:21:03,040 --> 01:21:05,800
Speaker 1: don't call yourself country or don't call yourself rock, call

1652
01:21:05,880 --> 01:21:08,479
Speaker 1: yourself pop because you've always got room to wiggle in

1653
01:21:08,520 --> 01:21:11,840
Speaker 1: any direction from that. And I always took that to mind,

1654
01:21:11,960 --> 01:21:14,479
Speaker 1: like pop is the center and if you can get

1655
01:21:14,600 --> 01:21:16,640
Speaker 1: right there, then you can be anything you know at

1656
01:21:16,680 --> 01:21:21,679
Speaker 1: any time. So who knows. Okay, But the scene has changed, certainly,

1657
01:21:21,720 --> 01:21:24,599
Speaker 1: I'm older than you. We have the Beatles in the

1658
01:21:24,680 --> 01:21:29,280
Speaker 1: FM explosion after that and the seventies, we're all about that.

1659
01:21:29,360 --> 01:21:32,720
Speaker 1: You cannot have a hit single. You could be a

1660
01:21:32,720 --> 01:21:36,000
Speaker 1: gigantic act, you know, Stairway to Heaven, not a single.

1661
01:21:36,520 --> 01:21:39,639
Speaker 1: MTV comes along turns it into a monoculture. If you're

1662
01:21:39,640 --> 01:21:43,680
Speaker 1: on MTV, you're incredibly successful, and it's about having the

1663
01:21:43,800 --> 01:21:47,800
Speaker 1: hit single. Then more than ever nineties or an era

1664
01:21:47,880 --> 01:21:51,040
Speaker 1: of confusion, you have the Seattle scene, you have hip hop.

1665
01:21:51,160 --> 01:21:54,519
Speaker 1: Then the Internet comes along blows it all apart. Yea,

1666
01:21:54,880 --> 01:21:57,439
Speaker 1: So what do we know? You know, we fought the

1667
01:21:57,479 --> 01:22:02,160
Speaker 1: trif al trading wars, streaming is here, but the media

1668
01:22:02,439 --> 01:22:05,719
Speaker 1: continues to focus on what they consider to be hits,

1669
01:22:06,600 --> 01:22:10,360
Speaker 1: the Spotify Top fifty, which have a smaller part of

1670
01:22:10,479 --> 01:22:15,320
Speaker 1: the overall marketplace than ever before. So I guess when

1671
01:22:15,320 --> 01:22:18,120
Speaker 1: you're working in the area, other than with brand you

1672
01:22:18,120 --> 01:22:21,240
Speaker 1: who had such huge success, a lot of these other

1673
01:22:21,360 --> 01:22:24,800
Speaker 1: artists you're working with, I would assume, And that's why

1674
01:22:24,840 --> 01:22:27,559
Speaker 1: I want to know it's not about having a hit signal,

1675
01:22:28,120 --> 01:22:31,720
Speaker 1: but by the same token, it must be frustrating that

1676
01:22:31,840 --> 01:22:34,639
Speaker 1: to a degree they're ghetto wised and they're not bigger

1677
01:22:34,720 --> 01:22:38,439
Speaker 1: boy the same token, they're actually pretty big, just people

1678
01:22:38,560 --> 01:22:41,879
Speaker 1: don't know. Then, as you talk about the plastic stuff,

1679
01:22:42,200 --> 01:22:45,360
Speaker 1: you know, the Americana forgetting how the music sounds, that

1680
01:22:45,439 --> 01:22:47,880
Speaker 1: where you that's where you might go for songs that

1681
01:22:48,000 --> 01:22:53,519
Speaker 1: actually say something and those usually resonate most. So what

1682
01:22:53,600 --> 01:22:55,640
Speaker 1: do you think about all that? Well, I had to

1683
01:22:55,680 --> 01:22:58,040
Speaker 1: say that there was one of your lessons letters where

1684
01:22:58,080 --> 01:23:01,040
Speaker 1: you you talked about this with the Spotify by and

1685
01:23:01,040 --> 01:23:03,919
Speaker 1: and all of that, and I loved it. I remember

1686
01:23:04,080 --> 01:23:08,280
Speaker 1: feeling that you really were saying something I wish I could.

1687
01:23:08,320 --> 01:23:10,240
Speaker 1: It has been a long time, so I don't can't

1688
01:23:10,240 --> 01:23:12,080
Speaker 1: remember exactly what you were saying in it, all of it,

1689
01:23:12,120 --> 01:23:17,599
Speaker 1: but you were saying something that I you know, here

1690
01:23:17,600 --> 01:23:20,080
Speaker 1: we are what what unfortunately I think has happened. I

1691
01:23:20,120 --> 01:23:22,000
Speaker 1: know this is quite the answer to what you're saying,

1692
01:23:22,040 --> 01:23:25,679
Speaker 1: but I'll say it very quickly. Is that, like it's

1693
01:23:25,680 --> 01:23:29,520
Speaker 1: like with social media, the Internet is an open protocol,

1694
01:23:29,840 --> 01:23:33,800
Speaker 1: but like people, for people to understand it, it it had

1695
01:23:33,800 --> 01:23:36,200
Speaker 1: to be translated in terms they can understand at first,

1696
01:23:36,240 --> 01:23:38,479
Speaker 1: Like not everybody are going to be computer nerds and

1697
01:23:38,479 --> 01:23:41,479
Speaker 1: figure out that you can just do all of this

1698
01:23:41,560 --> 01:23:45,559
Speaker 1: peer to peer stuff. So so like Twitter and all

1699
01:23:45,600 --> 01:23:48,800
Speaker 1: these other companies figured out or Spotify or anything that

1700
01:23:48,840 --> 01:23:52,800
Speaker 1: you could build a layer on top of it that

1701
01:23:52,920 --> 01:23:55,519
Speaker 1: would be a translation layer for people who didn't really

1702
01:23:55,800 --> 01:23:58,280
Speaker 1: made it very easy to use what the Internet was,

1703
01:23:58,920 --> 01:24:02,360
Speaker 1: but then therefore gain control over all of the information

1704
01:24:02,479 --> 01:24:05,360
Speaker 1: very quickly. So there's this layer that could be cut out.

1705
01:24:06,080 --> 01:24:09,360
Speaker 1: Of course, there's not like a technological solution that has

1706
01:24:09,400 --> 01:24:11,760
Speaker 1: been built that that would be easy enough for people

1707
01:24:11,760 --> 01:24:14,599
Speaker 1: to use, but there people figured out where we can

1708
01:24:14,680 --> 01:24:17,240
Speaker 1: build this layer very quickly make all the money you know,

1709
01:24:17,600 --> 01:24:20,640
Speaker 1: so to me, like with with all of the Spotify

1710
01:24:20,920 --> 01:24:23,439
Speaker 1: and the kind of lack of hits and everything. It

1711
01:24:23,640 --> 01:24:28,160
Speaker 1: is frustrating because I see artists write songs or or

1712
01:24:28,280 --> 01:24:34,040
Speaker 1: have songs that are so profoundly good. Um, and I

1713
01:24:34,120 --> 01:24:38,920
Speaker 1: also see them be influenced by the news system and

1714
01:24:38,960 --> 01:24:41,360
Speaker 1: how like it all works in trying to apply to

1715
01:24:41,400 --> 01:24:45,080
Speaker 1: that and like like you're saying it in a great way,

1716
01:24:45,120 --> 01:24:48,360
Speaker 1: because when you had hits, Like I'll tell you a

1717
01:24:48,400 --> 01:24:52,200
Speaker 1: really random example is Betty Davis Eyes the Kim Karen's

1718
01:24:52,200 --> 01:24:56,679
Speaker 1: song Okay, And it's like such a it just sticks

1719
01:24:56,680 --> 01:24:59,839
Speaker 1: in your head and is such an amazing beautiful chords

1720
01:24:59,840 --> 01:25:02,040
Speaker 1: and the changes, and it's kind of reflective of the

1721
01:25:02,120 --> 01:25:05,960
Speaker 1: time of what tracks sounded like and everything. But those

1722
01:25:06,000 --> 01:25:10,120
Speaker 1: songs still make so much money and they still resonate,

1723
01:25:11,160 --> 01:25:14,400
Speaker 1: you know. And people were writing too to the to

1724
01:25:14,520 --> 01:25:16,519
Speaker 1: get hits in a way and it was working. And

1725
01:25:16,560 --> 01:25:20,519
Speaker 1: those songs are still out there and still making money

1726
01:25:20,560 --> 01:25:22,639
Speaker 1: and still are big hits and people still love them.

1727
01:25:22,720 --> 01:25:25,960
Speaker 1: And now and then when now people make records, yeah,

1728
01:25:26,040 --> 01:25:28,439
Speaker 1: like they're not writing to have hits, but at the

1729
01:25:28,439 --> 01:25:33,040
Speaker 1: same time, I think that they don't. Like it's hard

1730
01:25:33,120 --> 01:25:36,680
Speaker 1: to explain this. It's like it's almost like the the

1731
01:25:37,080 --> 01:25:39,960
Speaker 1: someone could write that song now and I feel like

1732
01:25:40,000 --> 01:25:42,280
Speaker 1: it would resonate just the same as it did in

1733
01:25:42,320 --> 01:25:46,000
Speaker 1: the eighties. I mean, but but would it would it

1734
01:25:46,040 --> 01:25:48,760
Speaker 1: even connect? Would would it go up the charts? Would

1735
01:25:48,800 --> 01:25:52,360
Speaker 1: it get on this Spotify playlist? Like the entire process

1736
01:25:52,760 --> 01:25:57,080
Speaker 1: I feel like has has kind of numbed people's concept

1737
01:25:57,120 --> 01:25:59,120
Speaker 1: of songwriting and what they should do and what they

1738
01:25:59,120 --> 01:26:03,599
Speaker 1: shouldn't do, and and and I don't, you know, I'm

1739
01:26:03,640 --> 01:26:05,400
Speaker 1: not really making a lot of sense because I'm just

1740
01:26:05,439 --> 01:26:09,519
Speaker 1: doing I just gotta feel like it's it's you know,

1741
01:26:10,360 --> 01:26:13,160
Speaker 1: things are changing in a way because it's almost like

1742
01:26:13,240 --> 01:26:16,519
Speaker 1: artists don't have hopes of becoming Like when I went

1743
01:26:16,680 --> 01:26:19,680
Speaker 1: and moved to l a like Kermit the Frog, my

1744
01:26:19,760 --> 01:26:23,200
Speaker 1: dream wasn't to get rich, but the concept was if

1745
01:26:23,240 --> 01:26:26,559
Speaker 1: you could do something this type of art, then you

1746
01:26:26,600 --> 01:26:28,519
Speaker 1: could go and make a career out of it. And

1747
01:26:28,560 --> 01:26:31,200
Speaker 1: you could then go and if you were lucky and

1748
01:26:31,240 --> 01:26:34,280
Speaker 1: if you were good, you could go and make a difference.

1749
01:26:34,360 --> 01:26:37,479
Speaker 1: You could change, like the way that Trent Resner changed

1750
01:26:37,600 --> 01:26:40,080
Speaker 1: my approach and made me really want to play music

1751
01:26:40,640 --> 01:26:43,439
Speaker 1: I hoped to do to somebody else, you know, And

1752
01:26:44,080 --> 01:26:48,040
Speaker 1: but now like like to buy a five thou dollar

1753
01:26:48,120 --> 01:26:52,160
Speaker 1: les Paul's almost out of the question for most artists

1754
01:26:52,360 --> 01:26:55,120
Speaker 1: or people starting up, because like you've got to really

1755
01:26:55,160 --> 01:26:58,080
Speaker 1: make some serious touring money to really get some serious

1756
01:26:58,120 --> 01:27:01,000
Speaker 1: gear and and and it comes. It's so much more

1757
01:27:01,040 --> 01:27:04,679
Speaker 1: of a struggle that like there's almost like an anti

1758
01:27:05,840 --> 01:27:08,560
Speaker 1: songs that really resonate with people mindset. It's almost this

1759
01:27:08,960 --> 01:27:13,120
Speaker 1: kind of like like it's almost cool to to I mean,

1760
01:27:13,200 --> 01:27:16,120
Speaker 1: besides obviously like there's certain markets like hip hop and

1761
01:27:16,160 --> 01:27:18,920
Speaker 1: some other ones where they're really being innovative and really

1762
01:27:18,960 --> 01:27:23,480
Speaker 1: doing stuff that does really resonate and and is experimental

1763
01:27:23,600 --> 01:27:26,680
Speaker 1: and cool. But it's almost like like everything else has

1764
01:27:26,760 --> 01:27:28,960
Speaker 1: kind of been beaten to death to the point where

1765
01:27:28,960 --> 01:27:32,479
Speaker 1: people are kind of trying their hardest, but they know

1766
01:27:32,560 --> 01:27:35,679
Speaker 1: they're never gonna, you know, take it to this other level.

1767
01:27:35,760 --> 01:27:38,639
Speaker 1: So I don't know, it's it's kind of it's kind

1768
01:27:38,640 --> 01:27:41,160
Speaker 1: of heartbreaking to watch. And that's why it's awesome when

1769
01:27:41,200 --> 01:27:44,040
Speaker 1: you see somebody breakthrough, like Chris Stapleton, for instance, with

1770
01:27:44,120 --> 01:27:47,120
Speaker 1: like no radio play, doing this whole thing that was

1771
01:27:47,200 --> 01:27:50,400
Speaker 1: real and just you know what it maybe it just

1772
01:27:50,439 --> 01:27:52,760
Speaker 1: took the timber Lake and him on the c m

1773
01:27:52,800 --> 01:27:55,360
Speaker 1: A Awards or whatever it was, but like overnight, he's

1774
01:27:55,360 --> 01:27:58,760
Speaker 1: selling two million copies of and there's great songs on there.

1775
01:27:59,000 --> 01:28:01,840
Speaker 1: But had that not happened, maybe it would have just

1776
01:28:02,160 --> 01:28:04,519
Speaker 1: stayed in the lane it was in. I mean maybe

1777
01:28:04,640 --> 01:28:06,640
Speaker 1: if that was the moment or whatever, the moment was

1778
01:28:07,080 --> 01:28:09,120
Speaker 1: that kind of splash moment. I guess, like what you

1779
01:28:09,160 --> 01:28:11,240
Speaker 1: said makes the most sense here is that MTV was

1780
01:28:11,320 --> 01:28:14,759
Speaker 1: that you could instantly have that effect if you really

1781
01:28:14,800 --> 01:28:19,680
Speaker 1: made it onto these centralized channels and I in Spotify.

1782
01:28:19,760 --> 01:28:21,760
Speaker 1: While it is the same kind of thing, it's not.

1783
01:28:22,040 --> 01:28:24,479
Speaker 1: You're not a hit overnight on this stuff. You're not.

1784
01:28:24,520 --> 01:28:27,080
Speaker 1: You don't go on David Letterman is a comic and

1785
01:28:27,120 --> 01:28:29,040
Speaker 1: all of a sudden you're huge in the country. Like now,

1786
01:28:29,040 --> 01:28:31,439
Speaker 1: if you go on Colbert and your comic it doesn't

1787
01:28:31,479 --> 01:28:33,559
Speaker 1: mean anything, you know what I mean? So, like people,

1788
01:28:33,600 --> 01:28:37,360
Speaker 1: the way people digest things has changed so much that

1789
01:28:37,479 --> 01:28:41,000
Speaker 1: it almost is affecting the way the songs are made

1790
01:28:41,040 --> 01:28:43,080
Speaker 1: and the way songs are written and and all of

1791
01:28:43,120 --> 01:28:45,200
Speaker 1: that seems like a really negative thing, but I think

1792
01:28:45,200 --> 01:28:48,599
Speaker 1: there will be a turnaround to it. But okay, let's

1793
01:28:48,600 --> 01:28:52,280
Speaker 1: say you gave the example of Stapleton and you know

1794
01:28:52,640 --> 01:28:55,519
Speaker 1: it's all great, but let's leave him aside. In terms

1795
01:28:55,560 --> 01:29:00,360
Speaker 1: of a lower league, the American league, the only person

1796
01:29:00,520 --> 01:29:03,639
Speaker 1: who has truly broken through is Jason is Bill. That's right.

1797
01:29:05,680 --> 01:29:10,280
Speaker 1: Has another artist not broken through because they're not writing

1798
01:29:10,360 --> 01:29:14,080
Speaker 1: Betty Davis size or is the system holding them back?

1799
01:29:16,560 --> 01:29:20,640
Speaker 1: You know? I think it's it's like the system perpetuates

1800
01:29:20,680 --> 01:29:24,639
Speaker 1: the problem, and then therefore, like the system is holding

1801
01:29:24,680 --> 01:29:30,120
Speaker 1: them back, therefore they're not writing the Bettie Davis eye.

1802
01:29:30,160 --> 01:29:33,439
Speaker 1: Like somehow it's almost like the the banks, you know,

1803
01:29:33,600 --> 01:29:38,400
Speaker 1: like they like corruption perpetuates at the expense of the

1804
01:29:38,400 --> 01:29:41,639
Speaker 1: people to the point where like you have, like there's

1805
01:29:41,640 --> 01:29:43,640
Speaker 1: a great speech in the movie I Love called Sneakers

1806
01:29:43,720 --> 01:29:47,920
Speaker 1: that that that's my favorite movie of all time, the

1807
01:29:48,400 --> 01:29:51,400
Speaker 1: Ben Kingsley speech where he's talking about the the kind

1808
01:29:51,400 --> 01:29:55,400
Speaker 1: of cycle of corruption and how it perpetuates itself, not

1809
01:29:55,479 --> 01:29:58,000
Speaker 1: saying that all this is corruption, but but it kind

1810
01:29:58,000 --> 01:30:00,920
Speaker 1: of That's what kind of popped into my mind, was that,

1811
01:30:01,000 --> 01:30:08,240
Speaker 1: because it's almost like the problem perpetuates the almost lack

1812
01:30:09,000 --> 01:30:13,160
Speaker 1: of confidence and artists in a weird way. Like Isabel

1813
01:30:13,280 --> 01:30:17,040
Speaker 1: is a great example because he he's he writes great

1814
01:30:17,120 --> 01:30:20,479
Speaker 1: songs that really stick with people. I remember you wrote

1815
01:30:20,479 --> 01:30:22,559
Speaker 1: a thing about Jamie Johnson one time, and I loved

1816
01:30:22,560 --> 01:30:25,160
Speaker 1: it and it was one of the first me too.

1817
01:30:25,360 --> 01:30:27,240
Speaker 1: But he's a great example to me who wrote those

1818
01:30:27,280 --> 01:30:29,760
Speaker 1: kind of songs, who writes those kind of songs that

1819
01:30:29,760 --> 01:30:32,680
Speaker 1: that really stick in your head and perpetuate its or

1820
01:30:32,720 --> 01:30:37,720
Speaker 1: and and and you know, really hooks and beautiful compositions.

1821
01:30:38,280 --> 01:30:40,800
Speaker 1: And now he's not writing, you know, like he's in

1822
01:30:40,800 --> 01:30:43,280
Speaker 1: a physician, he's not cutting records. And I'm like, like,

1823
01:30:43,640 --> 01:30:47,479
Speaker 1: is it the system that that broke Jamie in this situation?

1824
01:30:47,479 --> 01:30:49,439
Speaker 1: Because like I want to, I always tell him, I'm

1825
01:30:49,479 --> 01:30:51,280
Speaker 1: and me and I have been closed for years, and

1826
01:30:51,320 --> 01:30:54,479
Speaker 1: I'm like, please let me do a record on you, please,

1827
01:30:54,520 --> 01:30:57,200
Speaker 1: you know, And he and he wants he's writing stuff

1828
01:30:57,200 --> 01:30:59,640
Speaker 1: and he's recording stuff. But I don't know why he's that.

1829
01:30:59,760 --> 01:31:01,680
Speaker 1: I don't know where he's at with it, and and

1830
01:31:01,720 --> 01:31:03,880
Speaker 1: it's his journey and I respect it all the way.

1831
01:31:03,920 --> 01:31:06,559
Speaker 1: But like I could use like another one of his

1832
01:31:06,640 --> 01:31:08,960
Speaker 1: songs right now, and I think, you know, country music

1833
01:31:09,000 --> 01:31:12,040
Speaker 1: could use it. So I wonder is that he has

1834
01:31:12,080 --> 01:31:16,320
Speaker 1: that mentally affected him, Has the system having kind of changed,

1835
01:31:17,080 --> 01:31:18,479
Speaker 1: like he was in the middle of it while it

1836
01:31:18,560 --> 01:31:22,479
Speaker 1: was changing. Has that given him an impression or a

1837
01:31:22,479 --> 01:31:24,320
Speaker 1: feeling that he that he just kind of doesn't want

1838
01:31:24,320 --> 01:31:26,680
Speaker 1: to jump into this or or you know. And I'm

1839
01:31:26,720 --> 01:31:28,160
Speaker 1: not trying to talk out of turn with him because

1840
01:31:28,160 --> 01:31:31,320
Speaker 1: he's my buddy. He knows, like I know, he writes

1841
01:31:31,400 --> 01:31:33,519
Speaker 1: some of the best songs. He sung some on the

1842
01:31:33,560 --> 01:31:35,160
Speaker 1: phone to me over the years that he wrote, and

1843
01:31:35,200 --> 01:31:37,639
Speaker 1: he hasn't recorded and put him out. So I'm always

1844
01:31:37,680 --> 01:31:42,040
Speaker 1: like why and is it? What is the you know,

1845
01:31:42,160 --> 01:31:44,840
Speaker 1: everyone's gonna love it, Like why, like please do it?

1846
01:31:44,920 --> 01:31:47,840
Speaker 1: You know, And I just sometimes wonder is it. Is

1847
01:31:47,880 --> 01:31:54,960
Speaker 1: it just the environment that kind of discourages certain artists

1848
01:31:55,000 --> 01:31:57,160
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, But then you have people

1849
01:31:57,200 --> 01:32:00,800
Speaker 1: like you said, like like Jason Nisbel who fought and

1850
01:32:00,840 --> 01:32:03,519
Speaker 1: fought and came from all these different areas, and that

1851
01:32:03,600 --> 01:32:08,040
Speaker 1: cuts this really there are different you know, his experiences,

1852
01:32:08,320 --> 01:32:10,800
Speaker 1: and it cuts this really intimate record after he finds

1853
01:32:10,800 --> 01:32:13,439
Speaker 1: a sobriety and it really hooks people and other people

1854
01:32:13,439 --> 01:32:17,160
Speaker 1: start covering his work and it's just and and to me,

1855
01:32:17,760 --> 01:32:21,559
Speaker 1: he's a great example of where true songwriting and talent

1856
01:32:21,680 --> 01:32:26,040
Speaker 1: meet and and really resonates with people you know, and

1857
01:32:26,040 --> 01:32:28,200
Speaker 1: and you have that and then you have like other

1858
01:32:28,240 --> 01:32:30,160
Speaker 1: guys who I don't even know any of their music

1859
01:32:30,360 --> 01:32:34,080
Speaker 1: in country or something that are selling out like massive arenas,

1860
01:32:34,160 --> 01:32:37,880
Speaker 1: And I'm like, I don't get it, And I know

1861
01:32:38,000 --> 01:32:41,680
Speaker 1: people aren't dumb. I have faith in people like the

1862
01:32:41,720 --> 01:32:45,640
Speaker 1: average person. I think that they they get conditioned and

1863
01:32:45,680 --> 01:32:48,000
Speaker 1: trained to a certain thing, But I don't think that

1864
01:32:49,000 --> 01:32:52,760
Speaker 1: people don't have emotional feelings for music. Like again, if

1865
01:32:53,280 --> 01:32:55,400
Speaker 1: if Bendy David's Eyes came out and it was right

1866
01:32:55,439 --> 01:32:58,519
Speaker 1: next to like something really corny out there, I feel

1867
01:32:58,520 --> 01:33:00,400
Speaker 1: like someone would be like, man, that's a eight song,

1868
01:33:00,439 --> 01:33:02,200
Speaker 1: and like it would really hit them, you know. But

1869
01:33:02,479 --> 01:33:05,880
Speaker 1: people aren't writing those songs anymore. And it's even like

1870
01:33:05,880 --> 01:33:07,640
Speaker 1: like I was listening to Tina Turner. I was going

1871
01:33:07,640 --> 01:33:09,599
Speaker 1: through a bunch of Tina Turner and that she's such

1872
01:33:09,720 --> 01:33:13,200
Speaker 1: got so many great songs people wrote, whether it be

1873
01:33:13,240 --> 01:33:15,680
Speaker 1: even all the back to like Nutbush City Limits all

1874
01:33:15,680 --> 01:33:17,400
Speaker 1: the way to like simply the Best, And I was like,

1875
01:33:17,960 --> 01:33:20,120
Speaker 1: do you feel like if somebody wrote simply the Best,

1876
01:33:20,640 --> 01:33:24,840
Speaker 1: like Chris Stapleton wrote that and cut it, it would

1877
01:33:24,880 --> 01:33:26,600
Speaker 1: be huge. It would be as big as it was

1878
01:33:26,680 --> 01:33:29,439
Speaker 1: when she did it, you know what I mean? And

1879
01:33:29,479 --> 01:33:32,040
Speaker 1: you know, so, so I don't know, I don't have

1880
01:33:32,080 --> 01:33:35,439
Speaker 1: an answer. I think Americana definitely, like you said, it

1881
01:33:35,560 --> 01:33:40,240
Speaker 1: definitely is like a section in the store where you know,

1882
01:33:40,360 --> 01:33:42,000
Speaker 1: you can go over there and you can almost pick

1883
01:33:42,040 --> 01:33:44,960
Speaker 1: anything and you're gonna get something that that is meaningfully

1884
01:33:45,000 --> 01:33:48,720
Speaker 1: written and and thought out and thoughtful music. You know.

1885
01:33:48,840 --> 01:33:51,320
Speaker 1: So in that way, it's a great thing to have

1886
01:33:51,439 --> 01:33:54,720
Speaker 1: that access to. But how does that cut through? How

1887
01:33:54,760 --> 01:33:57,040
Speaker 1: do you know, how does that cut through all the noise?

1888
01:33:57,080 --> 01:33:59,439
Speaker 1: There's so much noise now, So I just I just

1889
01:33:59,520 --> 01:34:01,400
Speaker 1: kind of wonder. I think we're in an evolution that

1890
01:34:01,479 --> 01:34:03,639
Speaker 1: will it's going to solve itself. And I think there's

1891
01:34:03,680 --> 01:34:06,960
Speaker 1: a lot of problems that people don't know were problems yet.

1892
01:34:07,000 --> 01:34:10,679
Speaker 1: But as technology and collectively as a culture, we start

1893
01:34:10,720 --> 01:34:13,960
Speaker 1: to become more aware. Like things like bitcoin are like wait,

1894
01:34:14,040 --> 01:34:17,479
Speaker 1: like that's become mainstream so quickly that I think people

1895
01:34:17,479 --> 01:34:20,679
Speaker 1: are going to start becoming aware of what has been

1896
01:34:20,680 --> 01:34:23,400
Speaker 1: going on with the Internet experience for them, and that

1897
01:34:23,520 --> 01:34:26,160
Speaker 1: might change the rules for Apple and Spotify, which I

1898
01:34:26,200 --> 01:34:28,280
Speaker 1: really hope it does. You know, when somebody wakes up

1899
01:34:28,280 --> 01:34:30,600
Speaker 1: and realizes, hey, like if there was a system in

1900
01:34:30,640 --> 01:34:34,639
Speaker 1: place with like cryptocurrency that was direct where you could

1901
01:34:34,640 --> 01:34:37,760
Speaker 1: still get music just as easily as you did. But

1902
01:34:37,920 --> 01:34:40,680
Speaker 1: now every time you play it, the artists, all the

1903
01:34:40,720 --> 01:34:44,280
Speaker 1: people that are supposed to get the cuts, producers, band members, whatever,

1904
01:34:44,320 --> 01:34:47,960
Speaker 1: would get payouts like every time somebody played their song instantly.

1905
01:34:48,000 --> 01:34:51,919
Speaker 1: That could totally be done. The infrastructures there, and Spotify

1906
01:34:51,960 --> 01:34:53,720
Speaker 1: wouldn't be taking a billion dollars of it, you know,

1907
01:34:53,760 --> 01:34:55,840
Speaker 1: and not to keep ripping them. I mean, look, they

1908
01:34:55,880 --> 01:34:57,840
Speaker 1: got they were smart, is what they are, you know,

1909
01:34:57,880 --> 01:35:01,599
Speaker 1: on ahead of the curve. But but like the infrastructures there,

1910
01:35:01,600 --> 01:35:04,120
Speaker 1: and eventually I think it will happen. When that happens,

1911
01:35:04,120 --> 01:35:06,280
Speaker 1: it might we might get back to that place where

1912
01:35:06,280 --> 01:35:11,240
Speaker 1: where there's a real future in in um in you know,

1913
01:35:11,400 --> 01:35:17,280
Speaker 1: in art, like movie like books got decimated. Music had

1914
01:35:17,320 --> 01:35:21,080
Speaker 1: the books as a running start, but it was too

1915
01:35:21,120 --> 01:35:23,799
Speaker 1: quick for them. They got decimated too. And then movies

1916
01:35:23,840 --> 01:35:26,000
Speaker 1: have been sitting back going, okay, we watched books, we

1917
01:35:26,040 --> 01:35:29,719
Speaker 1: want we watched this. Let's let's not let that happen

1918
01:35:29,720 --> 01:35:32,559
Speaker 1: to us. And even with like the Netflix, they've still

1919
01:35:32,600 --> 01:35:35,759
Speaker 1: figured out a model that works that better and didn't

1920
01:35:35,760 --> 01:35:39,679
Speaker 1: like totally decimate the industry, you know, but who knows.

1921
01:35:40,760 --> 01:35:42,479
Speaker 1: You know, I don't want to get a long discussion

1922
01:35:42,479 --> 01:35:44,599
Speaker 1: of this because soft topic. But I don't have you know,

1923
01:35:44,640 --> 01:35:49,120
Speaker 1: I think Spotify is not the enemy. They take of

1924
01:35:49,160 --> 01:35:52,440
Speaker 1: the overall pie. They have to pay all their expenses

1925
01:35:52,600 --> 01:35:55,439
Speaker 1: and it doesn't scale where people go on they have

1926
01:35:55,479 --> 01:35:58,519
Speaker 1: to pay. And historically, as you talked, now, it would

1927
01:35:58,520 --> 01:36:01,400
Speaker 1: be great if there was the blockchain and everything was direct.

1928
01:36:01,880 --> 01:36:04,559
Speaker 1: This is an opaque business and everybody involved other than

1929
01:36:04,560 --> 01:36:07,360
Speaker 1: the artist likes it that way. So you know, the

1930
01:36:07,400 --> 01:36:12,320
Speaker 1: English hearing said, the real problem is the labels themselves.

1931
01:36:12,360 --> 01:36:15,800
Speaker 1: But the other thing I must say is a lot

1932
01:36:15,840 --> 01:36:21,280
Speaker 1: of people complaining about lack of success were either in

1933
01:36:21,400 --> 01:36:24,519
Speaker 1: the old system, benefit from the old system, or still

1934
01:36:24,520 --> 01:36:27,600
Speaker 1: in that headspace when they made records a year and

1935
01:36:27,600 --> 01:36:30,759
Speaker 1: you're in a major label, you think you can still

1936
01:36:30,840 --> 01:36:35,679
Speaker 1: tour based on that promotion, whereas today there's sixty thousand

1937
01:36:35,720 --> 01:36:40,599
Speaker 1: tracks a day, so just getting noticed is hard. So

1938
01:36:40,640 --> 01:36:44,120
Speaker 1: when someone says, hey, you know I play music, I'm

1939
01:36:44,120 --> 01:36:47,640
Speaker 1: making any money? Well, okay, let's look at the Spotify.

1940
01:36:47,720 --> 01:36:51,759
Speaker 1: Think how many people are listening to you? Not that many.

1941
01:36:51,800 --> 01:36:54,439
Speaker 1: And the other thing is, prior to Spotify, you wouldn't

1942
01:36:54,439 --> 01:36:56,840
Speaker 1: be in the music business at all. I don't want

1943
01:36:56,840 --> 01:36:59,960
Speaker 1: to beat up on those people because you can transfer

1944
01:37:00,080 --> 01:37:07,200
Speaker 1: between these elements overnight. Grandy, but the interesting you think,

1945
01:37:07,240 --> 01:37:10,440
Speaker 1: you say, especially with Jamie Johnson within Color had incredible

1946
01:37:10,479 --> 01:37:14,240
Speaker 1: success on you know, an artistic success as well commercial success.

1947
01:37:14,560 --> 01:37:20,120
Speaker 1: And when you're talking about um, the overall state impacting

1948
01:37:20,320 --> 01:37:23,759
Speaker 1: the quality of the art, that's fascinating. For for twelve

1949
01:37:23,880 --> 01:37:27,559
Speaker 1: or fourteen years, we debated technology that's been figured out.

1950
01:37:27,560 --> 01:37:29,840
Speaker 1: We live in an on demand society. Ever you get

1951
01:37:29,880 --> 01:37:32,400
Speaker 1: your music, you're gonna get it on demand. So I

1952
01:37:32,479 --> 01:37:35,280
Speaker 1: agree with you. We're focusing on the software, i e.

1953
01:37:35,479 --> 01:37:39,200
Speaker 1: The music right now, and it will work itself out.

1954
01:37:39,800 --> 01:37:43,759
Speaker 1: It's just that we're in a crazy talk. Yeah, I agree,

1955
01:37:43,920 --> 01:37:46,559
Speaker 1: And I think we're in that like wild West period

1956
01:37:46,600 --> 01:37:51,280
Speaker 1: of of of everything socially solving. I mean, I don't

1957
01:37:51,320 --> 01:37:53,040
Speaker 1: mean like in the world. I mean just like in

1958
01:37:53,160 --> 01:37:56,439
Speaker 1: music and an art It just just the entire system

1959
01:37:57,240 --> 01:38:00,519
Speaker 1: was so shaken by the Internet. The entire world was

1960
01:38:00,560 --> 01:38:03,640
Speaker 1: so shaken up by the Internet that I think it's it.

1961
01:38:03,800 --> 01:38:06,280
Speaker 1: We're still about ten years away from it being solved,

1962
01:38:06,320 --> 01:38:08,439
Speaker 1: all of these problems. But I do agree with you.

1963
01:38:08,479 --> 01:38:12,080
Speaker 1: I think you know, it's easy to blame Spotify and

1964
01:38:12,120 --> 01:38:15,120
Speaker 1: to blame Apple Music, but at the end of the day,

1965
01:38:15,160 --> 01:38:19,439
Speaker 1: they were just first to create a system which would

1966
01:38:19,479 --> 01:38:22,800
Speaker 1: allow the average person to be able to listen to

1967
01:38:22,800 --> 01:38:24,840
Speaker 1: all this music and the straining platform and do it

1968
01:38:24,880 --> 01:38:27,920
Speaker 1: in a way. With the new model, nobody's gonna want

1969
01:38:27,920 --> 01:38:30,120
Speaker 1: to pay per song, just like nobody's gonna want to

1970
01:38:30,120 --> 01:38:32,559
Speaker 1: pay for movie. You know. It's like that's why they

1971
01:38:32,600 --> 01:38:35,880
Speaker 1: gotta put every movie out on HBO Max and one thing,

1972
01:38:35,920 --> 01:38:39,360
Speaker 1: and they do the deal with HBO Max as opposed

1973
01:38:39,400 --> 01:38:43,760
Speaker 1: to asking people to to buy a copy of it

1974
01:38:43,800 --> 01:38:47,400
Speaker 1: every time. You know, So who knows and any of

1975
01:38:47,400 --> 01:38:49,400
Speaker 1: that listen, I can talk to you for days. You're

1976
01:38:49,439 --> 01:38:53,719
Speaker 1: a very warm, loquacious person, quite the rack and tour,

1977
01:38:53,760 --> 01:38:56,200
Speaker 1: and I can see why you're successful. But you're a

1978
01:38:56,320 --> 01:39:00,120
Speaker 1: very likable guy and whatever history that's in the your

1979
01:39:00,200 --> 01:39:03,559
Speaker 1: view mirror as far as I'm concerned. So thanks so

1980
01:39:03,680 --> 01:39:06,000
Speaker 1: much for taking the time to talk to me. Hey man,

1981
01:39:06,400 --> 01:39:09,280
Speaker 1: it's really an honor. And I think, like I just

1982
01:39:09,520 --> 01:39:12,800
Speaker 1: I just admire what you do and I love your

1983
01:39:12,840 --> 01:39:17,519
Speaker 1: words that I love your perspective, and it's almost like

1984
01:39:17,640 --> 01:39:20,639
Speaker 1: there's very few trusted sources anymore, but you're one of those,

1985
01:39:20,680 --> 01:39:22,920
Speaker 1: and I get you. Wouldn't believe how many people like

1986
01:39:23,000 --> 01:39:26,639
Speaker 1: I subscribe to your letter. But before I did, people

1987
01:39:26,640 --> 01:39:29,240
Speaker 1: would send me your letters about different topics that you

1988
01:39:29,520 --> 01:39:31,880
Speaker 1: do this, you know, check this out. And I don't

1989
01:39:31,880 --> 01:39:35,120
Speaker 1: even remember whatever the issue was, and I'm sure it

1990
01:39:35,160 --> 01:39:37,680
Speaker 1: was something stupid, and it was about country music as that,

1991
01:39:38,360 --> 01:39:40,200
Speaker 1: I don't know what I thought I was talking about.

1992
01:39:40,240 --> 01:39:43,920
Speaker 1: I have no idea, but uh, but like it's very insightful,

1993
01:39:44,080 --> 01:39:47,599
Speaker 1: very intelligent, and you ask really important questions and you

1994
01:39:47,600 --> 01:39:50,240
Speaker 1: you bring up really important issues. So to be able

1995
01:39:50,280 --> 01:39:52,519
Speaker 1: to meet you and be face to face and talk

1996
01:39:52,560 --> 01:39:54,799
Speaker 1: about this stuff to me is just it's a highlight.

1997
01:39:54,880 --> 01:39:56,880
Speaker 1: So I really appreciate it. And I hope maybe one

1998
01:39:56,960 --> 01:39:58,920
Speaker 1: day we can meet up in town and and have

1999
01:39:58,960 --> 01:40:01,040
Speaker 1: dinner or something. You know, I would love to do that.

2000
01:40:01,240 --> 01:40:04,839
Speaker 1: When this aw this COVID craziness is history. Yeah, I'm

2001
01:40:04,880 --> 01:40:07,080
Speaker 1: ready to get back into the real l A scene.

2002
01:40:07,320 --> 01:40:09,840
Speaker 1: So Shooter, thanks again so much for doing this. Thank

2003
01:40:09,880 --> 01:40:12,280
Speaker 1: you so much. Have a great day, man, you bet.

2004
01:40:12,360 --> 01:40:14,880
Speaker 1: Until next time, Bob se