WEBVTT - #432 Maggie Freleng with Eron Shelman 0:00:05.760 --> 0:00:09.119 May fourteenth, nineteen ninety two, started as a normal Thursday 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:11.640 for Aeron Shellman. He called up a few of his 0:00:11.680 --> 0:00:16.520 buddies to hang Andre, Floyd and Antonio. Floyd came by 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:19.240 in his car and they all headed out to get haircuts, 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:22.040 pick up some liquor, and bounce around Detroit. 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:26.720 We had fun, we laughed, we joked. All of those 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:27.760 things happened. 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:31.760 Eron was driving Floyd's car with Antonio beside him in 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:34.880 the passenger seat and Floyd and Andre in the back. 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:38.760 Suddenly he heard a loud bang. 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:41.520 And it startled me to a degree where I almost 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:45.000 crashed the car. And as I was trying to stop 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:50.280 the car and gain that back, Antonio leaned over and 0:00:51.040 --> 0:00:54.760 fell into my lap. I have my dearest friend laying 0:00:54.800 --> 0:00:57.520 in my lap, bleeding out the back of his head. 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:01.840 Antonio was dead. The man who shot him confessed to 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:04.600 police and gave a full statement. 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:07.880 And he said, you know, I just lost it. I 0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:09.640 didn't even think about it. I just took the gun 0:01:09.640 --> 0:01:12.720 and I just shot him. 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:16.959 But Iron was arrested, charged and tried for his murder, 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:20.880 and in the end, Iron was the one who was convicted. 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:26.120 I'm Iron Shelman. I've served thirty years nine months in 0:01:26.200 --> 0:01:29.880 prison for first degree murder that I didn't do. 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:34.720 From lava for good. This is wrongful conviction with Maggie 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:50.000 Freeling today, Iron Shellman Iaron Shellman was born in Detroit 0:01:50.120 --> 0:01:51.960 in nineteen seventy two. 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:56.200 Yeah. I grew up on the inner city Detroit, Michigan. 0:01:56.800 --> 0:02:00.720 Mother was a Desiree Shelman and my father was a 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:04.920 Theodore Right. My mother did a bunch of stuff early on. 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:08.040 She worked at at and T for a spell, and 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:10.240 she worked at Blue Cross and Blue Shield for a spell. 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:13.800 My father was in and out of correctional facilities. 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:16.480 So your mom pretty much raised you by herself. 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:20.960 Yeah, yeah, with a handful of cousins and family members 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:24.680 and stuff that you know also participated in the rearing 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:30.440 of me. I have one sibling, she's ten years younger 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:34.400 than I am. I have a host of cousins. They 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:36.800 all think that they're my brothers and sisters. 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:43.120 How would you describe Aeron overall? 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:45.040 I would say, if I had to give it words, 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:46.760 gentle giant. Right. 0:02:47.720 --> 0:02:51.200 This is Aeron's cousin Sonya Shulman. She's nine years younger 0:02:51.240 --> 0:02:51.760 than Aaron. 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:57.280 Sometimes when you see people who are larger in stature, 0:02:57.320 --> 0:03:00.760 you have a sense of intimidation. And that has never 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:04.600 been that with him because he's always had a very 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:08.000 soft voice, and so his words always came out really 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:11.799 soft and graceful and kind. But when it was time 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:15.880 to be protective, you could hear change, Right, don't do that, 0:03:15.960 --> 0:03:17.840 put that down, You're gonna get in trouble. You know, 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:21.480 those sorts of things. Growing up, it was just like that. 0:03:21.560 --> 0:03:24.520 So because we have a small yet close knit family, 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:29.600 everyone operated in a way that felt in a protective. 0:03:29.160 --> 0:03:30.000 Measure sort of way. 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:33.880 So the older cousins or you know, of that nature 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:36.960 hovered over all of the younger ones such as myself, 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:40.760 in a way that felt very brotherly and sisterly. 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:46.040 Yeah, my grandfather, you know, he would give us a 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:49.480 few dollars every weekend and we would all pile into 0:03:49.720 --> 0:03:52.920 city bus and catch the bus downtown and watch Kom 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:54.640 Foo movies when we were children. 0:03:54.800 --> 0:03:56.400 What movies do you remember? 0:03:56.640 --> 0:03:59.400 Oh, we watched all of all of the Komfoo movies. 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:02.880 It Fox, you know, we were kids, like late seventies, 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:06.760 early eighties. It was fans of the guys with the rings. 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:09.680 Firstly, that's who it was, right, Okay. 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:11.040 Yes, there you go. 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:18.599 Although his extended family was always there for him, Iron's 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:20.200 home life was unstable. 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:24.400 You know, again, I'm pretty young, but you know, all 0:04:24.480 --> 0:04:28.240 signs showed that, you know, it was drug abuse and 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:30.520 those types of things that were happening in the home. 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:35.320 Aron spent less and less time at home, more and 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:38.719 more time out in the streets. Before long he was 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:40.200 starting to get in trouble. 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:45.760 You know, typical story. As the household deteriorates, and you 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:50.560 know it's no real real person that's making you do 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:52.880 this or making you do that. You know, so you 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:56.240 tend to start running with people that you should. 0:04:56.880 --> 0:04:59.400 And so what was that in your neighborhood? What was 0:04:59.440 --> 0:04:59.840 going on? 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:04.479 It was a lot. It just was it was, you know, 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:07.960 guys that did this and guys that did that, drug dealing, 0:05:08.600 --> 0:05:12.119 you know, breaking in houses. I was away a lot, 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:19.120 you know, juvenile delinquency, youth homes, training schools and such. 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:22.039 How much of your childhood do you think you spent 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:25.480 in some sort of facility or incarceration. 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:32.159 I'm fifty one years old, and last I tried to 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:35.760 do the math, I think I may have spent maybe 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:38.000 fourteen years free. 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:41.040 Do you think growing up with your dad in prison, 0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:45.120 had any effective on how you kind of chose to 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:45.839 live your life. 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:50.240 Must have right, like you know, like my grandfather, he 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:52.719 chipped in, He did the best he could. He worked 0:05:52.720 --> 0:05:54.840 a lot and such, but he come by every day 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:57.400 and check on me and spend a few minutes with 0:05:57.480 --> 0:06:00.280 me a day. But for a child like me, and 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:02.440 you know that was going through all that type of 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:07.720 family drama, you kind of want a strong individual. You 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:12.440 long for father figure right to teach you, you know, 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:14.200 what not to do and what to do. 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:18.040 So you have these friends, you're kind of living this 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:21.960 little bit of street life getting into some trouble. Can 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:24.560 you tell me about your relationship with Andre Rice and 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:25.400 Antonio Knight. 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:29.680 Both of them was real, real good friends of mine personally, 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:32.960 Like we grew up as like really really good friends 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:38.600 at those ages. At the thirteen and fourteen, I lived 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:43.520 on a street with Antonio from the age of twelve thirteen. 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:46.640 We caught the same bus to school for like many years, 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:50.440 I spent I spent nights over their house. I ate 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:53.080 at their house, you know, when my mother was kind 0:06:53.080 --> 0:06:58.599 of going through her things, you know, and we weren't 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:01.680 guaranteed to have a home cooked meal there. I would 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:05.400 go over Antonio's house and his mother Darlene, and his 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:08.120 kind grandmother and them. They would feed me all the time. 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:11.000 What was Antonio like early on? 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:16.280 He was like us pretty much, you know, kid trying 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:18.880 to find his way right, trying to figure out which 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:22.160 side of the tracks he's going to fall on, you know. 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:26.280 And as I would come back to the neighborhood, as 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:30.120 I was released from this facility or I would get 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:33.320 a break from that foster home, I seen the change 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:37.160 in it that it shifts. It was never really wholesome, 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:42.320 but it stopped being that and more street. 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:45.160 And then tell me about Andre. You said you were 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:46.160 really close with him. 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:48.880 Yeah, he was kind of like a kid brother. You know. 0:07:48.920 --> 0:07:51.800 We would go out and dance and like a little 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:56.080 light partying and such, you know, nothing really crazy, but 0:07:56.600 --> 0:07:58.560 you know, he went to school every day, and he 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:03.320 had a strong mother influence wouldn't allow him. Yeah. Yeah, 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:06.560 she was really you know, big with church and you know, 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:08.760 and that type of stuff, so she really wouldn't let 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:10.559 him veer off too much. 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:18.920 In May of nineteen ninety two, Ieron was nineteen years old. 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:22.640 He was still hanging out with Andre and Antonio, who 0:08:22.640 --> 0:08:24.960 also went by the name Tone, as well as some 0:08:25.000 --> 0:08:29.360 of the other neighborhood guys. One Thursday morning, Ieron decided 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:32.600 he needed a haircut, and Tone wanted to come along. 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:36.200 Eron called up his friend Ken, who ran a barber 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:39.120 shop at his house, and Ken said, sure, come on by. 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:43.439 So we called Floyd, which was my buddy, you know 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:45.880 what I'm saying, and he would drive us. So he 0:08:45.960 --> 0:08:49.720 pulled up and picked me up, and we started to 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:51.760 accumulate more and more people. 0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:56.480 Ieron, Floyd, Pennington, and Andre headed over to Antonio's to 0:08:56.480 --> 0:08:59.320 pick him up, and Eeron went inside to get him 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:03.200 while he chatted with Tones's grandmother and little sister. 0:09:04.480 --> 0:09:08.640 It was really just me being goofy with the kid's sister, 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:12.280 and grandmother said something or another to me, you know, 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:14.920 y'all be careful, y'all, you know, stay out of trouble. 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:17.120 You know. She was big on that. 0:09:17.120 --> 0:09:20.120 Type of The four of them went over to Ken's 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:23.240 and got haircuts, then drove around in Floyd's dodge for 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:24.080 most of the day. 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:28.239 I don't recall who was sitting where first, but I 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:32.440 drove because I didn't drink as much as them. Throughout 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:37.320 the day, they were shifting in the seats. We made 0:09:37.360 --> 0:09:42.800 a couple of stops including like liquor stores, the barbershop, something. 0:09:42.679 --> 0:09:47.280 To eat, and they did at one point stop at 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:53.160 Montese Bell's house, so that's Aaron's cousin. They stopped there 0:09:53.240 --> 0:09:54.920 and chatted for a couple of minutes. 0:09:55.400 --> 0:09:58.240 This is Rachel Wolf, Aaron's post conviction attorney. 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:01.520 Montes out of this, I'm like, hey, guys, like what 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:04.200 are you doing? Like where are you going? And that's 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:08.360 when Ieron apparently said, we're you take tone out or 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:10.120 we're going to take tone out. 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:14.200 At some point that day, Andrea and Antonio may have 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:16.839 gotten into some kind of disagreement, but if there was 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:20.240 anything wrong between them, Eron was unaware of it. 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:23.400 I was in and out of a car, going in 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:26.880 and out of cousins house, talked to him back in, 0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:31.280 so I don't know the full between those two. When 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:35.679 we traveled back up towards Antonio's house, it was kind 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:39.520 of quiet from Andre, but everyone else was still in 0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:42.760 the mode that they were in. We laughed, we joked, 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:45.439 you know, all of those things happened. 0:10:46.640 --> 0:10:49.800 Eron was driving with Antonio in the passenger seat beside him, 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:53.280 Floyd was sitting in the back seat behind Tone, and 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:58.160 Andre was sitting behind Eron. Suddenly, out of nowhere, Eron 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:00.320 heard a loud bang. 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:08.000 And and it startled me to a degree where I 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:11.360 almost crashed the car. And as I was trying to 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:15.760 stop the car and gain that back, Antonio leaned over 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:20.560 and fell into my lap. I looked back, I seen 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:24.439 the faces of Floyd and Andre, and I had my 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:28.480 my dearest friend laying in my lap, bleeding out the 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:29.280 back of his head. 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:32.400 Do you remember if anyone was like, what the hell 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:33.120 just happens? 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:33.320 Like? 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:34.160 What did you do? 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:38.199 I don't know if anyone really screamed out, I really don't. 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:42.960 I think it was what now, right? I think I 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:46.920 think that that's that's the emotion. What now? Like you 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:50.640 know what to do? What what happens? Now? Right? 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:52.079 So what did you do? 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:58.640 I drove, I stopped here, I stopped there, and before 0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:04.800 long we were in an alley like maybe two three 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:07.840 blocks away. They told me to stop. The gun was 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:10.439 still in his hand, you know, it was pull over here. 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:11.800 Stopped the car. 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:17.080 Andre and Floyd pulled Antonio's body out of the car 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:22.520 and left it there in the alley, and then Eron drove. 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:27.960 I was just so scared, you know, I didn't want 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:31.320 to be the one that was labeled to snitch or 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:31.760 any of that. 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:37.440 So they found the body in the alleyway. I believe 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:40.880 somebody who ran a shop nearby in the area found 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:43.680 the body in the alley and called the police. 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:47.959 An autopsy showed that Tone had died of a single 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:51.839 gunshot wound to the back of his head. Almost immediately, 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:55.000 the Detroit police were out looking for the killer, and 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:57.800 a number of suspects were rounded up for questioning. 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:05.360 I do know that they arrested at least three people 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:10.560 who were, you know, maybe witnesses. They suspected that these 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:14.040 three individuals, as Montes Bell and then this other woman, 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:17.559 Barbara Meyer and her boyfriend William Logan, were all arrested, 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:21.120 charged with the homicide, and then held for many hours 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:26.960 before they ultimately gave statements. I don't know exactly how 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:32.079 Iron and Andre initially became suspects, but I can wager 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:37.280 I guess that they spoke to Antonio Knight's grandmother, who 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:39.720 ultimately did come in and testify at trial because she 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:43.520 had seen these four men in the car together hours 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:44.880 before Tone died. 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:49.080 A few weeks later, Andre Rice was arrested as well. 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:51.360 Eron was still laying low. 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:55.280 You know, I'm nineteen years old. I'm ducking in the 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:58.320 dodge and I only really came out once I found 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:05.319 out that they had arrested On, so I kind of 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:09.040 let my guard down after that. I'm like, oh, okaye, 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:11.559 police arrested it, like you know, it's over with. 0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:16.640 Right, But it wasn't over. The statements from Montez, William 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:21.200 and Barbara, along with Tone's grandmother, had placed Iran in 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:24.880 the car when Tone was shot, and the investigation was 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:29.680 now focused on him and Andre. Before long, the police 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:31.960 found him at his cousin's house and took him down 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:32.520 to the station. 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:36.120 I didn't speak to him. They took me back to 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:39.880 the sale for hours. When I come back down, they 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:44.000 had a confession from Andre. So what he told me? 0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:47.200 He showed me a paper with a signature on it 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:50.240 said he had everything he needed. And I said, well, 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:52.800 if you got everything you needed, you got a confession, 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:56.840 surely I can go, right. Was it the case? They 0:14:56.880 --> 0:15:00.960 said they needed me to put some nails in the 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:07.280 coffin nothing and to pull Floyd into it. I said, 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:08.160 I don't know nothing. 0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:13.280 On June thirteenth, nineteen ninety two, Andre Rice confessed to 0:15:13.320 --> 0:15:16.880 shooting Antonio. He told the police that Aeron and Floyd 0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:19.760 had no idea it was going to happen, and they 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:21.480 had nothing to do with it. 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:28.160 What Andrea says is that Tone had been threatening him 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:32.480 and threatening his family, and so Andre says he had 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:35.440 been drinking, and he said he was sitting there and thinking, 0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:39.280 this guy's going to hurt my family. It's totally unprovoked. 0:15:39.320 --> 0:15:42.280 You know, I just I just lost it. I didn't 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:43.800 even think about it. I just took the gun and 0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:44.520 I just shot him. 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:51.120 So you stay quiet, he confesses, How do you think 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:52.880 you got involved in this? 0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:58.240 I was tied to it either way, right, So I 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:01.240 just assumed that since I didn't help anybody, and I 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:06.360 didn't help the investigation, I would be thrown in somehow, right, 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:16.560 That's what I was thinking. I don't know, you know, 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:18.440 at the time, I didn't. I surely didn't think that 0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:21.800 it would garner me a first degree murder conviction and 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:24.760 send me away for thirty plus years. 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:41.640 You're listening to wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling. You can 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:44.720 listen to this and all the Lava for Good Podcasts 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:48.200 one week early and ad free by subscribing to Lava 0:16:48.240 --> 0:17:02.520 for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. On June seventeenth, nineteen 0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:06.880 ninety two, Ivon Shellman and Andre Rice were both charged 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:11.840 with first degree premeditated murder. Their trial started six months later. 0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:20.560 The trial was actually pretty short. It ran over the 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:24.720 course of five days December seventeenth through the twenty third 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:29.679 of nineteen ninety two. They were tried together, Andre and Ieron, 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:31.360 but they had separate juries. 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:36.119 The judge was Via Massey Jones and the prosecutor was 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:41.200 Lisa Lindsay. Ivon's defense attorney was Paul Curtis and Andre's 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:43.159 attorney was Jeffrey Edison. 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:48.480 He was partners with Paul Curtis. They were law partners. 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:50.960 They were operating out of the same office. There is 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:52.960 a potential conflict of interest there. 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:56.879 But the trial moved forward with very little to go on. 0:17:57.320 --> 0:17:59.919 There was no physical evidence for the state to present. 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:04.400 They never found a murder weapon in the case. According 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:08.800 to the police, they never found the car. Floyd went 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:11.439 away with the car. The car was never seen again, 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:14.359 so they couldn't fingerprint it or do anything like that. 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:19.440 The prosecution's few witnesses included a medical examiner and one 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:21.760 of the police officers. 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:25.879 And then there was Antonio. Knight's grandmother came in and 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:30.560 testified about what had happened when they came to pick Antonio. 0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:30.640 Up that day. 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:35.360 In what she saw, there were three people in the vehicle, 0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:38.600 well for if you count Antonio himself. One of them 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:41.920 was never charged, never arrested, never interviewed. 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:44.840 That was Floyd Pennington, the owner of the car. 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:47.680 He was the one white man in the car, which 0:18:47.720 --> 0:18:53.560 I also find interesting. You know, so their only evidence 0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:57.399 that Iran was guilty was this testimony of his cousin. 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:07.000 Montes Bell was the state star witness. He was the 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:09.680 one who said Iran had told him they were going 0:19:09.720 --> 0:19:11.520 to take Tone out. 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:14.560 He was the one that was going to make a difference, 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:18.919 and his testimony was incredible. There were lots of ways 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:23.240 to impeach him and discredit him, just using conflicts in 0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:26.600 his own testimony, conflicts between what he said a trial 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:29.280 and at the exam, the fact that he had charges pending, 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:32.200 the fact that he was facing the homicide charge initially, 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:36.120 so he just the trial attorney really just focused on 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:37.240 cross examination. 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:40.680 Did the police convince anyone to testify against him that 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:42.080 maybe made something up. 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:45.760 I don't know. I will say that one of the 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:49.200 investigators on the case, her name was Barbara Simon, has 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:55.959 been alleged in several other cases of pressuring witnesses eliciting 0:19:56.000 --> 0:20:02.240 fabricated testimony. So it's possible, and especially knowing what we 0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:06.240 do about the Detroit Police Department at that time, it's possible. 0:20:06.880 --> 0:20:10.639 Barbara Meyer said straight up that she gave them seven 0:20:10.720 --> 0:20:14.480 different statements and they would not release her until she 0:20:14.680 --> 0:20:17.199 gave the one that they wanted her to and she 0:20:17.400 --> 0:20:19.760 said at that point, I would have done anything to 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:21.639 get out of there. It's one of the worst places 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:23.840 I've ever been, and I hear that a lot. 0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:26.800 Now. 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:29.800 To understand what happened next, it's important to know how 0:20:29.800 --> 0:20:33.760 the trial was conducted. Ivon and Andre were co defendants, 0:20:34.040 --> 0:20:37.520 and they were tried together before the same judge and prosecutor, 0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:42.360 but they had two separate defense attorneys and two separate juries. 0:20:43.240 --> 0:20:45.160 So the way they do that is, you know, they'll 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:49.680 do partial testimony from one witness. They'll present the things 0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:53.359 in front of each jury while the other jury is 0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:56.639 out of the courtroom, and anything that pertains to both cases. 0:20:56.680 --> 0:20:58.880 They'll have both juries in the courtroom. It's something they 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:00.840 do a lot to save time. 0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:05.520 This means that potentially each jury could get a very 0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:08.720 different picture of the same set of events. 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:13.399 Andre didn't testify at the trial, but they had a 0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:17.160 police officer take the stand and read his initial statement 0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:20.159 into the record. This is the very first version of 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:23.679 events he told police. You know, he went in there. 0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:26.520 They interviewed him. He said, we were all in the car. 0:21:26.720 --> 0:21:29.560 I shot him. The other two people in the car 0:21:29.600 --> 0:21:32.280 with me didn't know anything about it. I didn't even 0:21:32.280 --> 0:21:37.040 think about it. I just acted right. That same evidence 0:21:37.400 --> 0:21:40.840 was not presented to mister Shelman's jury ever. 0:21:41.680 --> 0:21:45.080 He was convicted. First, he was charged with first degree 0:21:45.160 --> 0:21:49.000 murder and felony firearm. They reduced his to second degree 0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:52.439 murder with felony firearm, and they just left me at 0:21:52.520 --> 0:21:53.480 first degree murder. 0:21:54.520 --> 0:21:57.680 And in this case, Andre I believe got twenty five 0:21:57.760 --> 0:22:00.720 to sixty years was his sentence. 0:22:04.440 --> 0:22:07.040 I just I'm just still wondering how that happened, because 0:22:07.240 --> 0:22:10.199 it isn't it true that Andre also said, like, you 0:22:10.280 --> 0:22:12.520 were not involved, you didn't know anything. 0:22:13.920 --> 0:22:18.639 But that information was never read in my trial. Jury 0:22:18.720 --> 0:22:22.600 never heard that the jury only heard that I was 0:22:22.600 --> 0:22:26.360 a bad kid and I went picked my buddy up 0:22:26.400 --> 0:22:29.960 and something terrible happened to him. If you only hear 0:22:30.000 --> 0:22:32.840 a certain side, it's all you can make your opinion. 0:22:32.880 --> 0:22:35.440 And so I don't I don't blame him at all. 0:22:37.040 --> 0:22:42.119 So, because the jury had not heard the evidence that 0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:45.840 allowed Andre Rice's jury to say, oh, there was no 0:22:45.960 --> 0:22:50.679 premeditation and deliberation, Ieron Shulman's jury did not have any idea. 0:22:50.760 --> 0:22:54.960 They didn't hear Andre's statement. So if they believed that 0:22:55.119 --> 0:22:59.520 he was involved, even in the slightest they believed they 0:22:59.520 --> 0:23:02.199 were looking yet something that was the first degree homicide. 0:23:02.240 --> 0:23:05.239 That's the charge that was put to them, right, and 0:23:05.280 --> 0:23:11.360 they found him guilty of it. In Michigan, if you're 0:23:11.680 --> 0:23:15.959 convicted of homicide, either as the principal or as an 0:23:16.000 --> 0:23:19.639 aider and a better there is a mandatory life without 0:23:19.720 --> 0:23:23.400 parole sentence, and you're gonna die. You're going to die 0:23:23.400 --> 0:23:25.560 in prison. It means life in Michigan. 0:23:26.080 --> 0:23:28.600 So Rice got a lesser sentence. I know that you 0:23:28.680 --> 0:23:31.560 explained a little bit of that because of the testimony 0:23:32.400 --> 0:23:35.119 that was not allowed into Eeron's trial. But that was 0:23:35.160 --> 0:23:38.320 not a Brady violation. Correct. It was not hidden. The 0:23:38.359 --> 0:23:39.639 defense attorney just did not. 0:23:39.880 --> 0:23:43.280 The defense attorney knew about it, you know, and it's 0:23:43.760 --> 0:23:46.879 I don't know, you know. We interviewed Paul Curtis, we 0:23:46.960 --> 0:23:50.320 called him at the evidentiary hearing to explain his reasoning, 0:23:50.440 --> 0:23:53.440 and the only reason he gave was that he assumed 0:23:53.520 --> 0:23:58.480 Andre Rice would plead the fifth and just refuse to testify, 0:23:59.000 --> 0:24:01.600 and so what was the point of talking to him? 0:24:01.800 --> 0:24:03.920 And when I asked him, well, why wouldn't you use 0:24:04.000 --> 0:24:08.560 this statement? He didn't need Andre He really didn't have 0:24:08.600 --> 0:24:09.240 an answer. 0:24:12.800 --> 0:24:18.199 When you're sitting at trial and they present this for 0:24:18.359 --> 0:24:21.119 andre and then not for you, did you say to 0:24:21.119 --> 0:24:23.640 your defense attorney, like, what is going on? Why isn't 0:24:23.640 --> 0:24:24.960 this coming into my trial? 0:24:25.840 --> 0:24:29.639 I didn't have a clue. I didn't have a clothe No, no, 0:24:30.080 --> 0:24:35.320 nineteen year old No. I really believed that like someone 0:24:35.359 --> 0:24:40.360 would see the truth, right, that's what you hope, right, 0:24:40.400 --> 0:24:43.000 you hoped it like like, you know, you got me 0:24:43.080 --> 0:24:47.919