WEBVTT - Author Snack Series: Bobbi Rebell 0:00:06.880 --> 0:00:09.680 You're listening to What's Her Story with Sam and Amy 0:00:10.200 --> 0:00:16.759 and this is the author Snack series. Bobby Rebel is 0:00:16.800 --> 0:00:19.759 an author and host of the Financial grown Up podcast. 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:23.480 Her newest book is launching Financial grown Ups. Live your 0:00:23.560 --> 0:00:26.920 richest life by helping your almost adult kids become everyday 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:30.720 money smart. She was previously the Global Business News television 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:36.880 anchor and personal finance columnist at Thompson Reuters. Bobby, why 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:39.440 did you write this book? I wrote this book because 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:42.839 I knew so much on paper and yet was failing 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:47.280 fabulously with my almost adult children. And I was so 0:00:48.240 --> 0:00:53.279 almost embarrassed and baffled at the situation, because I mean, 0:00:53.400 --> 0:00:57.080 I had like two decades of covering investor news and 0:00:57.120 --> 0:01:00.000 writing about personal finance. I had become a certified financial 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:03.480 planner a few years earlier, and yet my kids just 0:01:03.560 --> 0:01:06.040 wouldn't listen. And I realized that there's a lot of 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:09.160 advice for parents of younger children who will They might 0:01:09.160 --> 0:01:10.960 not always listen, in that they might throw a temper 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:12.720 tantument just ignore you, but they're not going to just 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:14.400 kind of yes, you say, I got a mom, and 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:15.920 like walk out the door with their friends. It's a 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:18.600 different level and the stakes actually are much higher. You're 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:21.800 not just teaching them lessons just as a lesson. This 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:25.840 is actually happening to them and there are benefits and consequences. 0:01:25.840 --> 0:01:28.240 So I needed help, and I kind of looked for 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:31.240 help and there wasn't So I went to my expert 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:33.800 friends and there was a book. One thing that struck 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:36.360 me was that your father was a big influence on 0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:41.720 you becoming financially independent at a young age. Can you 0:01:41.840 --> 0:01:44.319 talk about what led you to buy your first apartment 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:47.280 at age twenty three? I mean, that's incredibly unusual. It 0:01:47.400 --> 0:01:49.800 is incredibly unusual, and you're right, my father had a 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:52.600 huge role. And it's been very interesting watching his reaction 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:55.520 to this book because he's sort of looking back and saying, oh, 0:01:55.560 --> 0:01:57.640 I forgot I did sit you guys all down and 0:01:57.680 --> 0:01:59.960 just tell you had to tell me what you need 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:02.120 for the semester. And he in that case, he was 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:03.800 very generous. He wrote a check, but then that was it, 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:06.680 and he said, well, I I you know I thought that, well, 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:08.120 if you ran out of money, you would just get 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:11.000 a job. And we did have jobs in college. So 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:13.679 after school I went to Penn. A lot of my 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:16.360 friends had these big fancy jobs, and I was just 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:19.160 you know, going to my journalism job, and I was 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:21.639 living at home, and we were looking at rental prices 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:24.359 in this area called Lincoln Towers on the Upper West 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:26.920 Side of Manhattan, and the rental prices were like a 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:29.160 thousand dollars a month for a ground floor back of 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:32.240 the building studio. So we did the math on that, 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:35.959 and we realized that because it was a time when 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:38.800 it was the early nineties, real estate was actually in 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:41.240 a real slump in New York City, that if I 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:44.480 had the down payment to buy basically that same studio 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:46.639 and there were they were going for about a hundred 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:49.000 thousand dollars. So we did the math on, you know, 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:51.280 what a loan would be in all the costs associated 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:54.280 with it, and we realized that I could buy one 0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:58.760 and the total payments on that would be less than rent. 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:02.200 And so oh, I you know, was able to get 0:03:02.200 --> 0:03:04.760 the down payment through having had savings. And then I 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:07.119 did save by living at home for some time, which 0:03:07.160 --> 0:03:10.080 is something my stepdaughter did. And then you know, you 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:12.600 do often need parents co signing for you at that age, 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:15.960 so again I had that parental support, which is definitely 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:19.360 privileged and definitely not something everyone has. But I was 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:22.360 able to buy a co op in that complex it's 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:24.960 called Lincoln Towers on the Upper West Side um in 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:26.280 that market flop. But I will tell you no one 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:28.240 else is buying real estate in general at that time. 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:30.600 So I bought at a time when people were afraid 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:32.640 to buy New York City real estate. And that was 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:35.160 very risky in that sense. But we did the math 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:37.360 and we felt that the amount of money I would 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:40.280 save in even two or three years not paying rent, 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:44.880 but paying this, you know, partially tax deductible, maintenance and mortgage. 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:47.360 The mass just worked and so I did it. One 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:50.080 of the interesting things about your books, you really put 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:54.840 it into context how both COVID and the age of 0:03:54.880 --> 0:04:00.120 helicopter parenting has changed our relationship with how we how 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:02.880 we talk about money with our kids. How has that 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:06.200 impacted it. It's so interesting, and that's such a good question. 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:09.119 First of all, it's changed our relationships, and that when 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:13.480 normally kids adult kids move home, it's often in a 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:17.800 situation where they are in financial distress, there's something going 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:20.360 on related to them as a person. This they were 0:04:20.360 --> 0:04:23.160 moving home because something happening to everyone. So it was 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:26.600 a shared experience, and there were other things happening. They 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:29.679 didn't have activities to constantly run to. They weren't making 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:33.080 plans to go see their friends in person, so they 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:36.400 were around and sort of a little less attached to 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:39.040 their friend group than they might have been. We also 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:42.120 got to witness, and this is really interesting, we witnessed 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:46.080 our adult children working at their jobs, and a lot 0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:48.760 of parents I don't think fully appreciated how hard their 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:51.479 kids worked, and so that was a whole new appreciation 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:54.839 of them as individuals, not just our children, and the 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:56.480 way that other people see them and the way that 0:04:56.560 --> 0:05:00.799 other people might have expectations for them. It also helped 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:03.160 create an environment where after a certain point, I mean 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:06.520 remember when it was fifteen days to stop the spread. Well, okay, 0:05:06.560 --> 0:05:08.520 so you got fifteen days, so your kid comes home, 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:10.480 so maybe you're doing their laundry and making sure they 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:12.479 have all their meals made for them. But as time 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:15.080 went on past that fifteen days, things start to settle 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:17.320 in a little differently, and maybe mom is not making 0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:20.200 all of her meals for her twenties something children, maybe 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:22.600 they're starting to make them for their parents. Maybe they're 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:25.679 starting to have different kinds of conversations with their parents 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:28.240 about their adult money issues that are very different from 0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:30.679 just oh, i'm short on cash, can I have some money? 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:33.599 Maybe they're really talking more about the things going on 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:35.719 in their life and their goals and dreams, and they're 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:40.440 also seeing, just through general conversation, the financial realities of 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:43.440 their parents, which may not be as perfect as they 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:46.000 necessarily assumed. A lot of us assume our parents have 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:49.440 things always perfect, And I learned over the last few 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:52.159 years even that my parents had more ups and downs 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:54.640 than I was aware of at all when I was 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:56.599 growing up that things were not always perfect. And they 0:05:56.720 --> 0:05:58.680 kept a lot of that from me at an age 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:01.039 appropriate time, so it was not a mistake for them 0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:03.920 to not share it, But it was just interesting to 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:08.080 learn that their career path worn't necessarily perfect all the time. 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:12.200 What was your personal experience during the pandemic with your 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:15.880 almost adult kids and talking about money. It was a 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:18.279 lot of that. I mean, we did have a lot 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:21.560 of conversations that we never would have had because, um, 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:24.440 the oldest one, well, she had actually just graduated college 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:27.640 and started her job, so she was very busy, and 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:30.200 I got to witness how as I said, how hard 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:32.680 she was working. She worked for a consulting company. And 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:36.360 I also was able to see my stepson was he 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:39.440 was gosh, he was a sophomore when he moved home. 0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:43.440 He's at NYU two Film School, so it was interesting 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:46.080 to see him adjusting and to see how they related 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:48.359 to their friends. And you know, you just talked to 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:52.000 them more because they're there and you didn't have distractions. 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:54.240 They weren't going out to meet their friends at night. 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:57.920 They were just home. And so I remember we went 0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:00.240 the first few months we were um in the kind 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:03.760 of upstate New York at a house and we had 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:06.120 dinner the first night there. I remember it was a 0:07:06.200 --> 0:07:10.280 Taco Tuesday, and we all sat down to dinner together 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:13.080 at the same time on a weeknight, not a special 0:07:13.080 --> 0:07:15.800 occasion or a holiday. And my youngest who is fourteen, 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:18.960 comments and he says, we've never had dinner together, and 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:21.120 everybody liked it. And we did start to really have 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:24.600 dinner together where even if someone so wasn't hungry or whenever, 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:27.280 they came and sat at dinner time, and so many 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:29.920 conversations happened then and just getting to know each other 0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:33.280 in a way that wasn't as purposeful. It just happened 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:35.320 sort of. I hate the word authentically, but it did. 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:37.960 It happened authentically, and that that was a great experience 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:40.160 for our family, and I think that they came to 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:43.320 respect us. They saw us as adults, not just parents, 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:45.800 which is also really healthy. They saw more of our 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:48.320 lives because they're seeing it from a different perspective as 0:07:48.360 --> 0:07:51.520 young adults, not kids that are in high school getting 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:53.840 ready to go to college. They're let they weren't as 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:57.800 only focused on themselves. Were there any kind of financial 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:00.480 stories about your ups and downs that you shared with 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:03.280 them during this period of time that they didn't know? Yeah, 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:05.440 well that I always share them because I think it's 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:07.280 really important, So I don't I have to think that. 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:09.840 I'm sort of struggling about the timing of when I 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:12.640 share things. I certainly share the fact that you talked 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:14.640 about the apartment. Well, after I got the apartment, I 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:16.400 then wanted to do a Hampton share and I was 0:08:16.440 --> 0:08:18.800 so tight on money that I took out a load, 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:23.160 which is not going to do and I have shared 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:26.680 that publicly, It's in my previous book. But um, yeah, 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:30.360 so don't do that so they know that, so they 0:08:30.440 --> 0:08:32.439 know we do all you know. Look, we are always 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:35.320 making mistakes all throughout life, and it's really a question 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:37.920 of being able to course correct and make different decisions. 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:40.160 But we all make mistakes, and I think that they're 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:43.319 more than aware of that. There's also a fine line, right, 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:46.680 and then I think parents try to struggle with what 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:48.760 is too much to share and how do you figure 0:08:48.760 --> 0:08:50.760 that out? Well, you look at first of all, the 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:55.760 child's personality, maturity, age, need. For example, in the book, 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:58.640 I started age sixteen, because they need to know things 0:08:58.679 --> 0:09:00.840 if they're going to start driving a car, if they're 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:02.880 going to have a job, there's a need that they 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:05.000 have to understand the basics of what's going to come 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:07.400 out of their paycheck and and the responsibilities that go 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:09.679 with having a job. So you focus on all of 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:13.880 those things, but remember that you may unintentionally give them 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:16.600 reason to worry. So if you think that they are 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:19.080 sort of getting a sense of things, it's important to 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:22.120 talk to them directly so they're not just getting it 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:25.560 from overhearing things. Sometimes we aren't as discreet as we 0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:27.959 think we are, and I think that's the worst case scenario, 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:32.040 is when you unintentionally are giving them information to be worried. 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:34.920 About so if that's happening, you need to be more 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:37.120 direct with them and let them in on things. But 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:39.480 it is important to give them a general sense of 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:42.880 you know, your values when it comes to money, more 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:46.520 than a scarcity mindset. You want to avoid that. So 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:49.040 you can talk to them about where you're prioritizing your 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:52.199 resources and maybe there are times when you're gonna be 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:54.560 a little bit more careful with money because you have 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:56.880 a goal like saving for their college. So you can 0:09:56.880 --> 0:09:59.160 talk to them about those kinds of things. You don't 0:09:59.200 --> 0:10:02.559 have to assign dollar numbers to everything. For example, if 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:05.319 you want to talk to them about what we call 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:08.120 state planning, which is a terrible name because it implies 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:09.640 that you have to be uber wealthy. But the truth 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:11.800 is all that means is kind of where everything goes, 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:15.560 you know when you pass, and you can tell them 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:19.160 the general ideas that you have without telling them dollar amounts. 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:22.720 That said, a lot of information is available on the internet, 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:25.040 So even if you have a little kid like Aby 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:27.200 with a seven year old, if their kids, if their 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:29.440 friends got curious, they can all look up what everybody's 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:32.120 houses costs and things, so they can figure stuff out. 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:34.559 Because of technology, they have a lot more information than 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:36.800 we had when we were young, and so don't be 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:39.760 naive and think that they don't know things. So control 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:42.400 the information if you think that they're getting it. I 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:45.040 used to host a radio show. It was a college show, 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:48.240 and people would call with our problems, and the second 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:53.079 most common problem was a failure to launch discussion of 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:56.240 what do I do. My child won't leave the house 0:10:56.679 --> 0:10:59.839 in terms of, you know, financial independence. They don't make 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:02.679 an of money, and my spouse says we should kick 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:06.080 them out. How do we handle this? Every case is different, 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:09.000 but in general, you need to sit down with the 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:13.200 young adults and talk about your expectations, your hopes for them, 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:16.440 and really come up with a plan. And one of 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:19.959 the toughest things to do is tell them that their dream. 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:21.440 You know, they may be saying, well, i'm home because 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:23.480 I'm working on this business. So I'm working on my 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:26.360 big project. You have to basically say, okay, but you 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:28.760 need income too, So if you want to be here, 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:31.200 I need to see an income producing job. I don't 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:33.480 care if you don't like it. You need a job 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:37.080 just to have a job for money, and unless you do, 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:39.360 you're gonna have to find another place to live by 0:11:39.360 --> 0:11:42.080 this time, and of course it depends on the context. 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:43.720 If they've been home a week, give them a break. 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:46.000 But they have to have an exit strategy, and that 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:47.600 is one of the themes that I talked about in 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:50.480 the book. But along with expectations, you also have to 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:52.720 let them know that you have confidence in them, that 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:55.080 they can do it, and that you believe in them, 0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:58.720 and that you're there as a resource, not a financial resource, 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:01.720 but as a resource to come up with ideas and 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:05.960 to brainstorm and let them figure out the details. But 0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:08.880 let them know that this is a very temporary situation 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:12.800 and that they you know, set a timeline work backwards. 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:14.679 If they say they need more times, they explain to 0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:17.800 me why, and make a decision if you think that's valid. 0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:21.000 But you need to really set the bar high and 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:22.680 let them know that they can do it. That's the 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:26.920 biggest thing, because there's usually more psychology than fact in 0:12:26.960 --> 0:12:29.719 why they're staying home. They're probably afraid to fail. They're 0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:31.600 afraid to disappoint you. They might have set a goal 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:34.240 and set it publicly and they haven't gotten they haven't 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:36.839 made it yet, right, so they don't want to disappoint 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:41.000 anyone it's okay to be doing a job job while 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:44.440 you're following your dream. So much of your book, what 0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:47.800 I enjoy about it is that it's not just like 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:49.719 here the facts, here's how to set up a rath. 0:12:49.800 --> 0:12:52.600 I R right. It's it's infused with emotion, which I 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:56.280 think is such a big part of our relationship with money. Yeah, 0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:59.880 because that was the hard part. It is more psychology 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:02.640 then fact. I do have the factual information in there, 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:04.920 but I had that and I was failing, and that's 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:09.600 because I wasn't communicating well. It's important to really think about, 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:12.200 for example, the tone in which you speak to your children, 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:15.800 and make sure it's a supportive tone, not a judgmental tone, 0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:20.280 that you're accepting them, that you're hearing what they are saying. 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:22.720 One of the people interviewed in my book, and I 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:26.000 believe you've interviewed her on this this podcast, is Tory Dunlap. 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:28.839 So she's right in this category. She's twenty five years old, 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:32.200 and the most important thing she really said, and I 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:36.600 think she's spot on, is listen and hear what your 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:39.080 child is saying, because if you just yell at them 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:40.600 to get out of the house by a certain date, 0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:43.760 date probably won't, by the way, and it's going to 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:46.040 ruin your relationship and create tension. And what's the point 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:48.800 of that, right, You're basically saying you're a failure. Get 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:50.959 out of my house. So that's not what you want 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:52.960 to do. You want to just listen to them. Tell 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:57.160 me why you're here. What is this, you know, season 0:13:57.200 --> 0:13:59.480 of your life doing to get you to where you 0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:03.280 want to? How can I help you besides just indefinitely 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:06.560 providing a place to sleep, I want to help you proactively, 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:08.679 you know maybe, And I say in the book, if 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:11.240 you have connections, life is hard enough. Make the connection, 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:13.960 Make make the introduction, make sure your child is going 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:16.600 to follow up, make sure it's going to be well received. 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:19.120 But do the things that you can do within your 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:23.040 power reasonably to help them leave. Did you talk to 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:25.080 your kids before you wrote the book about the fact 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:27.080 that you felt like you were failing. I'm connecting with 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:30.800 them on this front. Yes, yes, And what did they 0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:34.000 and what did they say? Okay? So Ashley wrote the 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:36.240 epilogue and it's my favorite part of the book. And 0:14:36.280 --> 0:14:38.560 I had to so and I can be a helicopter 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:40.440 parent even though I was aware of it, and didn't 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:42.160 want to be it. I see it. I see it 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:45.560 all the time. And she, you know, she wrote this 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:49.280 epilogue which gives her perspective on what I wrote, and 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:51.720 it gives her money tips and her justification of a 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:54.440 lot of things that we thought about. And so it's 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:57.280 really funny. So she defends her decision in the epilogue, 0:14:57.280 --> 0:14:59.960 which I talked about in the book, how she's live 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:03.040 thing at home, rent free. You know, we're not charging 0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:05.040 her for anything except the phone, but which has done 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:07.480 another thing. But but we're basically and she's living free. 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:11.000 And I am watching her savings bill that she's doing great. 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:13.840 And the pandemic helped because she wasn't running to go 0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:15.720 out with her friends. There was a lot less temptation. 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:18.880 And then all of a sudden she's like, oh, um, 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:22.920 my boyfriend and I are buying season passes to Disney World. 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:26.320 Now we live in New York City, Disney World has 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:31.880 in Orlando. There's a pandemic. Her number one priority is 0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:34.800 saving for this apartment that she's wanted since she was thirteen, 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:37.600 basically since she met me and moved in and she 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:40.600 heard my story. She's been saving for this apartment for 0:15:40.720 --> 0:15:44.960 you know whatever, almost a decade, and I'm like, this 0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:47.480 is not aligned with what you've told me you want 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:50.560 to do, and it's my job to help you. And 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:53.680 you know, I'm also thinking and I need you, I 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:56.160 love you, but I want you to go out and 0:15:56.240 --> 0:15:59.520 be happy. And you know, because we had everybody home 0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:03.400 for the demic and she just was adamant and we 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:07.720 thought about it. I was so angry and she justified 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:09.840 it and I sort of went, well, I can't control it. 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:12.360 She'll be home forever and this is not going well. 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:14.200 My book will just my book, you know, my book. 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:16.040 I'm like, well, it'll work out if she buys the apartment. 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:18.640 If she doesn't, that'll be just a reality check, okay. 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:21.080 And in the epilogue, I'm not going to go into 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:24.440 the whole story, you will hear her perspective on how 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:30.080 she justified buying season passes for Disney World while living 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:32.680 in New York City in a pandemic the Disney World 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:35.920 in Orlando. But Ashley, he's really grown into her own 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:37.960 and she has look she has to choose her priorities 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:40.080 and that's the other thing. She's getting a puppy now. 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:42.680 She waited, so she had sort of more money in 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:45.440 her emergency fund. And she's been in the apartment for 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:48.240 a year at this point, and so now she's literally 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:50.000 getting a puppy in a few days. So she waited 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:52.280 for it, and she's researched that since she researched all 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:54.720 the costs. Do I think she should get a puppy out? No, 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:56.760 I think she should wait a couple more years. But 0:16:57.160 --> 0:16:59.920 she I have full confidence I'm not paying for the puppy. 0:17:00.720 --> 0:17:03.520 What kind of financial grown up advice would you give 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:08.160 to college students considering graduate school? You need to actually 0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:11.840 talk about it and run the numbers and say, Okay, 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:14.280 if you are going to use the law degree and 0:17:14.400 --> 0:17:17.040 this is important to you, that's fine, but look at 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:19.760 what it costs and really think about what kind of 0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:22.000 law you're going to practice, because that's where it really 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:24.440 falls apart. You have to look. I mean, I saw 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:27.919 I just opened to TikTok account, so everybody please follow me. 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:30.119 It's just my name. But I saw a TikTok and 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:32.760 it said and it was mortifying because it said, the 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:36.159 five jobs from that you get an undergraduate degree, that 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:38.400 are the worst jobs, the worst value. In other words, 0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:39.879 if you like, if you have student debt and you 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:41.800 need to pay them off. These are the five worst jobs. 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:44.840 And journalism, which is basically what I've done my whole life, 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:47.640 was like top of the list of like jobs where 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:49.879 you can kind of earn your money back. So that 0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:52.280 would be a bad move financially. It doesn't mean you 0:17:52.320 --> 0:17:54.199 don't do it, but you need to recognize. So if 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:56.160 you're going to go into law, I think I don't 0:17:56.160 --> 0:17:58.520 know enough about which areas of law necessarily pay the most, 0:17:58.560 --> 0:17:59.919 But you should think about if you're going to have 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:02.879 have a lot of law school debt, what is the 0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:04.880 plan to pay it off as quickly as possible. Think 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:07.880 about what kind of law will pay really well? Where 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:11.640 is the demand for lawyers right now? For the highest 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:13.919 paid law You may not seeing it forever, but just 0:18:14.040 --> 0:18:16.560 go for it. Because the other thing is people think 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:18.560 their money is tight when they're in the lowest paying 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:21.359 jobs in their earlier in their career, but actually, because 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:25.600 you often have no dependence, you have the most discretionary 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:28.480 money and it's the easiest to pay off those loans. 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:33.240 So really focusing down when you're young and just out 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:36.439 can really help. That's something that's very relevant. Unfortunately in 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:39.919 places like medical school, but also even undergrad I mean, 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:42.679 think about the career you're going into and now a 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:49.879 quick break. What is your perspective on women and money? 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:52.359 I mean you have worked with at this point, I 0:18:52.359 --> 0:18:57.040 would imagine thousands of people and are their gender differences 0:18:57.119 --> 0:19:00.240 in In why I think there are gender different because 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:03.760 I think a lot of women it's a stereotype, unfortunately 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:05.919 for a reason. And I think you've seen this, and 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:08.280 that's something that you've been such a wonderful advocate for 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:13.280 that women are many it's it's I don't like to generalize, 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:16.720 but women can sometimes fall into the trap of wanting 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:19.040 someone to just take care of them and deal with 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:21.080 that because they perceived that they're not good at money. 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:23.440 But the truth is money is not that hard. Don't 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:25.560 spend more than you have, make sure your money is 0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:29.520 invested and diversified. That's really kind of it, right. So 0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:33.239