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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Saber Prediction of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie Reach.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we have an episode

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Speaker 2: for you about school lunches, primarily in the United States.

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Speaker 1: Yes, whoof we do well? Was there any particular reason

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Speaker 1: this was on your mind, Laura.

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Speaker 2: It's been. It's been on the list for a long time,

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Speaker 2: partially because, yeah, we were talking, oh gosh a while

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Speaker 2: ago now about how interesting, like the content of school

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Speaker 2: lunches around the United States and around the world really is,

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Speaker 2: and you know, like what goes into that, Like what

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Speaker 2: cultural and financial and other institutional considerations go into something

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Speaker 2: seemingly as simple as lunch for kids. And yeah, so

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Speaker 2: I figure, I don't know, why not make any really

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Speaker 2: miserable for a couple of days.

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Speaker 1: It was a headache inducing episode. It's history heavy, for sure,

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Speaker 1: history heavy, a lot of government documents and legal terms.

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Speaker 1: Who tried my best? Yeah, I think, you know, I

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Speaker 1: think we've got a pretty comprehensive general history of the

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Speaker 1: whole thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and right, And this this is not an

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Speaker 2: episode about like like the exact nutrition involved, because that

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Speaker 2: is a shifting and weird topic. And you know, like

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Speaker 2: it's not a look at what everywhere in the country

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Speaker 2: is doing with a school lunch program. It's also not

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Speaker 2: really an episode about what not like non public schools

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Speaker 2: are doing for school lunch is though I imagine that

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Speaker 2: they are vastly informed by that thing. So so, yeah,

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Speaker 2: we just have we have a number of future homework

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Speaker 2: assignments we do.

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Speaker 1: The thing that I'm really sad that I personally didn't

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Speaker 1: get to go into was just what was offered at

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Speaker 1: different periods of time food wise, across the country, because

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Speaker 1: it was so fascinating.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll have to do We'll have to

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Speaker 2: do like a follow up episode about some of those menus. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: And I would and especially write and try to incorporate

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Speaker 2: some of that stuff about in other places that are

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Speaker 2: not the United States as well. So start writing in

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Speaker 2: about that. Yes, please start writing in. I'm so interested

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Speaker 2: in this. In my own experience, I didn't often partake

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Speaker 2: in school lunches. Sometimes I was jealous.

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Speaker 1: Of it, yeah, because you know, I think it's a

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Speaker 1: grass is always greener. On the other side, I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure how happy I would have been with the school lunch,

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Speaker 1: but sometimes I'd be like, oh, they're having pizza.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they're having nuggets, man, I want some chicken nugs.

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Speaker 1: Come on, Yeah, exactly exactly, But I did sometimes and

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Speaker 1: I was in marching band, and sometimes after school we

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Speaker 1: would get leftovers. I'm not even sure if we would

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Speaker 1: get stuff from the school lunch room. Usually it was frozen,

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Speaker 1: That's what I remember. Most it was frozen, and so

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Speaker 1: it wasn't quite edible. I did like when we would

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Speaker 1: go on field trips, they would pack as like the

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Speaker 1: brown sack lunches from the school. Those were hit or miss,

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Speaker 1: but there was something cool. There was something cool about

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Speaker 1: going on a field trip.

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Speaker 2: But sure having this just something different.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, And I was also thinking about the lunch room,

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Speaker 1: at least in my experience, was a place of sometimes rebellion.

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Speaker 1: So we had like what was called the red block okay,

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Speaker 1: and they put it down and that meant you weren't

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Speaker 1: you weren't allowed to.

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Speaker 2: Talk oh okay on.

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Speaker 1: Your table, and it would call us. It would cause

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Speaker 1: some issues. And then when I was in high school,

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Speaker 1: they shortened lunchtime from thirty minutes to twenty five and

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Speaker 1: because of the lines to get lunch, some people didn't

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Speaker 1: really have time to eat it. So we staged like

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Speaker 1: protests during the lunch and we wouldn't leave, and it

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Speaker 1: was just this whole thing that I remember of us

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Speaker 1: just sitting there, what teachers were yelling and just eating

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Speaker 1: our lunches, being like what, yeah, yeah, give us back

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Speaker 1: those five minutes. Come on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, either that or figure out a better system for

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Speaker 2: feeding us, because y'all are the ones falling down here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, power to the people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't. I didn't really ever partake in school

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Speaker 2: lunch either. Sometimes when I did, like summer camps, like

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Speaker 2: like day camps, uh, we would have school lunch style foods.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, no, I was a I was a

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Speaker 2: brown bagger all through school. And I was thinking about

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Speaker 2: it too. And the things that I remember from high

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Speaker 2: school were like a lot of vending machines with a

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Speaker 2: lot of at the time in the nineties, like really

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Speaker 2: unhealthy options, a lot of Snapple, my guys, a lot

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Speaker 2: of Snapple and uh, and also pizza Hut head set

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Speaker 2: up in the lines to get pizza from Pizza Hut

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Speaker 2: were wild and from from the actual kitchen. And again,

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Speaker 2: like I never really ate there, so I can't speak

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Speaker 2: to it, but there was this very particular smell that

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Speaker 2: I associate with it, which was a little bit like

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Speaker 2: mac and cheese and not really in a pleasant way. Okay,

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Speaker 2: And yeah, and I don't know, like I it's sort

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Speaker 2: of doing this episode, I got a little bit angry

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Speaker 2: and I got a little bit sad at different parts.

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Speaker 2: So school is rough. School is a rough time, and

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Speaker 2: it is difficult to feed a large number of people

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Speaker 2: in any circumstance. And I don't know's it's it's a

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Speaker 2: set of problems that we're still we're still working on.

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Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely we are, and we're going to get into

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Speaker 1: some of that for sure. Goodness, uh huh who Okay,

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Speaker 1: So past episodes, I would say Southern style cafeteria cooking.

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Speaker 2: Sure, definitely adjacent cafeterias as cafeterias at a certain point.

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Speaker 2: Also we did an episode on food pantrees and or

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Speaker 2: soup kitchens. And then I feel like some of our

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Speaker 2: early episodes on dairy are probably important, Like particular episodes

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Speaker 2: on dairy, like maybe the American cheese like pasteurized process

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Speaker 2: cheese product episode, maybe about like milk and kid like

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Speaker 2: like the entire development of safe milk systems, which I

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Speaker 2: think is in the Expiration Dates episode yeah, stuff where

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Speaker 2: the United States dairy industry is heavily involved, those are

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Speaker 2: probably formational to this.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I agree, I agree. Well, I guess that does

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Speaker 1: bring us to our question. Sure, school lunches, what are they? Well,

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Speaker 1: school lunches are lunches provided to kids at school under

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Speaker 1: the once radical concept that children are people and people

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Speaker 1: need to eat food. Perhaps obviously what this entails around

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Speaker 1: the world really depends on like cultural and legal definitions

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Speaker 1: of basically every part of that previous sentence, you know,

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Speaker 1: like what is lunch, what is provide, what's a kid,

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Speaker 1: what's a school? What's a food?

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Speaker 2: We are, as I said, focusing in on the United

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Speaker 2: States today because that is where we live, although I

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Speaker 2: think right I do speak for all of us when

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Speaker 2: I say we would love to branch out to other

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Speaker 2: countries in the future.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So, in the US, the biggest source of lunches in

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Speaker 2: schools is the National School Lunch Program, which is this

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Speaker 2: government run program under the United States Department of Agriculture

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Speaker 2: or USDA, and the National School Lunch Program is meant

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Speaker 2: to provide healthy, affordable, more or less palatable lunches to

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Speaker 2: kids in public schools and nonprofit private schools. At the

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Speaker 2: pre k through twelfth grade level, which for our metric

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Speaker 2: using friends means ages like three to eighteen years from

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Speaker 2: this national program. States and school systems and individual schools

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Speaker 2: participate in various ways, like there are rules about nutrition

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Speaker 2: requirements and pricing for students, and schools can receive domestically

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Speaker 2: produced foods and or cash subsidies for participating, but what

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Speaker 2: actually gets served can really vary based on the cultural

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Speaker 2: preferences and like financial and workforce and production capacity of

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Speaker 2: any given school in case it is not clear. In

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Speaker 2: the United States, public schools are those that are taxpayer funded.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, just wanted to define that real quick, Okay. Basically,

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Speaker 2: the USDA has a set meal pattern wherein a lunch

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Speaker 2: has to offer five components a fruit, a vegetable, a

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Speaker 2: grain of protein, and milk. Yes, milk is one of

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Speaker 2: the five see above ree dairy episodes of the past.

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Speaker 2: Each component has to be offered in certain amounts, and

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Speaker 2: there are weekly requirements for like total calories and sodium

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Speaker 2: and saturated fats. But yeah, schools can prepare and cook

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Speaker 2: and serve foods on their own, or they can contract

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Speaker 2: with businesses that are essentially like specialized caterers, or a

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Speaker 2: little bit of both. The program is sometimes augmented and

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Speaker 2: or complicated by school's decisions to allow sales of commercial

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Speaker 2: snacks and drinks via vending machines and or allowing commercial

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Speaker 2: restaurants to vend on premises. You know, and this has

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Speaker 2: changed since I was a kid, But you know, like

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Speaker 2: drink machines with maybe bottled waters and low sugar beverages,

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Speaker 2: snack machines with like trail mix or granola bars, a

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Speaker 2: stand with yeah sure, pizza hut slices or personal pizzas,

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Speaker 2: stuff like that. It's a way for schools to earn

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Speaker 2: commissions from these big corporations and to get foods that

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Speaker 2: kids will actually eat in front of them. But there

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Speaker 2: are also a lot of considerations about like appropriate nutrition

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Speaker 2: and appropriate marketing practices to children. So what does all

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Speaker 2: of this look like in practice? Again, it really varies,

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Speaker 2: but generally it is considered best practice these days to

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Speaker 2: allow kids to pick and choose from, you know, even

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Speaker 2: a small variety of offerings, to encourage actual consumption and

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Speaker 2: to reduce food waste. Just for one example, I checked

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Speaker 2: out what some of my local public schools have on

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Speaker 2: the menu for the twenty twenty five school year in

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Speaker 2: my city and I live in a suburb of Atlanta.

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Speaker 2: It runs on a three week rotational schedule, with different

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Speaker 2: dishes available every day. So every day schools offer a

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Speaker 2: choice of a hotter cold entree, a choice of two

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Speaker 2: vegetable side dishes, an assortment of fruit, and a choice

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Speaker 2: of milk. Hot entreys include things like pizza, nachos, fish

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Speaker 2: nuggets with mac and cheese, chicken and waffles, curry chicken

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Speaker 2: with flat bread and rice, Nashville Hot chicken sandwich, or burgers, hamburger, cheeseburger,

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Speaker 2: black bean burger. Cold entrees on various days include a

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Speaker 2: turkey sandwich, peebian jay with a cheese stick on the side,

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Speaker 2: which is just part of it, I guess, a large salad,

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Speaker 2: or like snack packs. Vegetable sides include things like garlic,

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Speaker 2: green beans, fresh tomatoes and cucumbers, Caesar salad, roasted corn,

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Speaker 2: tater tots, or cuman black beans and so. Yeah. So

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Speaker 2: kids can pick up to one entree, up to two

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Speaker 2: fruit and two vegetables, and a milk and thus make

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Speaker 2: for themselves whatever kind of meal they want.

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Speaker 1: That sounds so different than what I really I hope

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Speaker 1: it's good. I hope it's good because I feel like

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Speaker 1: mine was you get pizza or you're not.

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Speaker 2: Or you're not eating. Yeah, like maybe there's broccoli, I'm

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Speaker 2: not sure. Yeah, yeah, there might be tater tots yeah

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Speaker 2: maybe yeah.

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Speaker 1: And then there's frozen milk.

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Speaker 2: This temperature issue is interesting to me. Again, like I

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Speaker 2: never really encountered I never really used this program, but.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the milk was always frozen every time I interacted

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Speaker 1: with it. Okay, cool? Yeah, Well what about the nutrition.

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Speaker 2: Do not eat cultural institutions? Uh? Seriously though, like, like,

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Speaker 2: oh boy, folks have been arguing about nutrition in schools

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Speaker 2: forever for the entirety that this has been a thing.

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Speaker 2: To be fair, Nutrition is real complicated.

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Speaker 1: It is, and our understanding of it changes frequently.

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Speaker 2: Uh huh. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: That was influenced by both corporations and government.

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Speaker 2: So yeah. Yeah. And also funding is difficult and our

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Speaker 2: food system is difficult.

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Speaker 1: So indeed, which we have a number for you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, so okay. As of twenty nineteen, which was

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Speaker 2: the latest year that I could find, like across the

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Speaker 2: board numbers for the National School Lunch Program was involved

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Speaker 2: with serving some twenty nine point six million lunches to

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Speaker 2: kids around the country every day of school, not even

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Speaker 2: counting breakfasts or snacks or anything else. At the time,

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Speaker 2: there were about fifty five point four million students enrolled

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Speaker 2: in schools. So yeah, that's like a little more than

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Speaker 2: half of American students eating through the national program. That

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Speaker 2: does include some private school kids, of which there were

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Speaker 2: four point six million that year, but I don't have

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Speaker 2: precise statistics on that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a lot, and the impact is pretty huge.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah, no, I mean it's again kind

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Speaker 2: of radical concept during some times and for some humans,

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Speaker 2: but yeah, kids are people, and it turns out that

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Speaker 2: people do need to eat in order to succeed at

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Speaker 2: doing anything.

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Speaker 1: So yep, yep. And there's been a lot of history

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Speaker 1: around that thought and what to do about it.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and we are going to get into that history.

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Speaker 2: But first we're going to get into a quick break

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Speaker 2: for a word from our sponsors.

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Speaker 1: And we're back.

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Speaker 2: Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you.

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Speaker 1: Okay. So a lot of the information in this outline

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Speaker 1: is from a USDA document detailing the history of school lunches.

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Speaker 1: Several other sources pulled from that too. I just wanted

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Speaker 1: to point that out because I don't love getting all

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Speaker 1: of my information from one source. Yeah, but it seemed

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Speaker 1: a pretty formative source.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. The document in question is this booklet

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Speaker 2: that was written by one Gordon Gunderson and first published

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Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy one. I think Gunderson was this dude

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Speaker 2: who served in the USDA and in the like food

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Speaker 2: related school system of Wisconsin for thirty years, retiring in

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Speaker 2: nineteen sixty nine. So he was around for a lot

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Speaker 2: of the American developments that were going to get into

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Speaker 2: a little bit later in the outline. But he did

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Speaker 2: also write extensively about the European systems that you know,

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Speaker 2: partially inspired those developments.

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Speaker 1: So yes. So some of the earliest school lunches originated

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Speaker 1: in seventeen ninety in Munich, Germany. They were the brainchild

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Speaker 1: of Benjamin Thompson, who also went by the title Count Rumford.

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Speaker 1: Rumford was an American born physicist who relocated to Europe

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Speaker 1: in seventeen seventy six.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he was a British loyalist who like served in

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Speaker 2: the British forces during the American Revolution. So yeah, seventeen

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Speaker 2: seventy six, moving on makes sense, makes sense.

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Speaker 1: Also, an interesting fellow. As Lauren and I were discussing, I.

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Speaker 2: Really want to do an episode on him now, and

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Speaker 2: I'm not positive he's come up before he has. In

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Speaker 2: addition to the food Pantries episode, you can also see

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Speaker 2: our episodes about bullion and induction cooking to learn a

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Speaker 2: little bit more about him. If that gives you any

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Speaker 2: kind of clue, I don't know if it should.

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Speaker 1: That tells you how much he was involved in Okay,

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Speaker 1: So eventually he made his way to Germany. While there,

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Speaker 1: he launched a program called the Poor People's Institute. This

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Speaker 1: is a program where impoverished adults made clothes for the

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Speaker 1: army in exchange for food inclose of their own children

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Speaker 1: worked at certain hours too, but in between they got

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Speaker 1: lessons in reading, writing, and arithmetic. The food was primarily

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Speaker 1: a fairly basic soup with vegetables and grains, potatoes, barley,

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Speaker 1: something like that. Meat was too expensive to go into

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Speaker 1: these dishes. Allegedly, Rumford wanted to provide the most nutritious

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Speaker 1: meals at the lowest cost he could achieve, a goal

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Speaker 1: that was fueled in part due to a lack of

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Speaker 1: funding for his work. He went on to help establish

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Speaker 1: similar programs in other European countries like England, France, and Switzerland.

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Speaker 1: Some of these manifested in soup kitchens that drew tens

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Speaker 1: of thousands of people a day because of the number

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Speaker 1: of people they were trying to feed. Rumford wanted to

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Speaker 1: find ways to speed up and scale up food production,

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Speaker 1: and he is credited with inventing things like the kitchen range,

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Speaker 1: the double boiler, the drip coffee pot, and just a

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Speaker 1: whole bunch of stuff. We really should come back and

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Speaker 1: talk about him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, probably fascinating guy. Anyway, Okay, throughout the eighteen hundreds,

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Speaker 2: a lot of developments happened, well, I mean, like in

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Speaker 2: a lot of stuff, you know, like the Industrial Revolution

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Speaker 2: was in full swing. Partially because of the Industrial Revolution,

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Speaker 2: different cultures were really reckoning with what education could and

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Speaker 2: should mean. You know. Traditionally in Europe and its colonies,

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Speaker 2: like the US, education was something mostly for rich people

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Speaker 2: or for people training for church service, right, But around

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Speaker 2: this time there was a lot of thought and work

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Speaker 2: going into expanding education for everyone as a sort of

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Speaker 2: public service. There were what's called normal schools being set

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Speaker 2: up to train teachers in like a relatively standardized set

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Speaker 2: of curricula and government funded schools were slowly becoming more common.

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Speaker 1: Right and beginning in the eighteen seventies, in Germany, several

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Speaker 1: organizations offered clothing, food, and education to children. By eighteen

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Speaker 1: ninety six, a report looking into government backing of food

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Speaker 1: programs like these was gathering interest, and the next year

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Speaker 1: a bill was introduced calling for the government to fund

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Speaker 1: school meals in German cities. It didn't pass due to

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Speaker 1: concerns that a bunch of people would flock to the

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Speaker 1: cities because of it, but some local legislations were able

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Speaker 1: to get a pass on a smaller level. While visiting Germany,

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Speaker 1: France's Victor Hugo apparently was inspired by these programs, contributing

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Speaker 1: some of his own money in eighteen sixty five. In

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Speaker 1: eighteen seventy one, a program designed to feed hungry school

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Speaker 1: children launched in France. After a series of schools received

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Speaker 1: excess funding from various government organizations, a law was passed

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Speaker 1: in eighteen sixty seven that authorized these funds four schools

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Speaker 1: across France. Those funds were meant to cover a variety

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Speaker 1: of things, including school lunches. A decade later, Paris started

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Speaker 1: opening school canteens for the children of those on the

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Speaker 1: poor board list. These were largely funded by the public.

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Speaker 1: The program soon spread across Paris and government contributions increased,

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Speaker 1: eventually covering the whole thing, and any child could participate.

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Speaker 1: Children who could pay paid for the food, not the labor,

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Speaker 1: but the food, and those who couldn't didn't pay, and

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Speaker 1: it was all kept anonymous through a sort of voucher system. Yes,

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Speaker 1: Lauren and I were discussing this beforehand, but it's very complicated,

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Speaker 1: these kind of charts of like who can pay and

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Speaker 1: who can't pay?

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Speaker 2: Yeah to this day, also right, yes, yeah, yes.

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Speaker 1: Meanwhile, over in England, thanks to the efforts of hundreds

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Speaker 1: of charity organizations, Parliament passed the Education or Provision of

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Speaker 1: Meals Act in nineteen oh five. This was in part

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Speaker 1: due to concerns over the physical fitness of the population,

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Speaker 1: especially when it came to soldiers. A commission was appointed

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Speaker 1: to look into this issue and determined that the lack

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Speaker 1: of nutrition in children was the most pressing problem, and

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Speaker 1: they recommended putting in place an inexpensive school lunch program

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Speaker 1: to combat the whole thing. A couple of other committees

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Speaker 1: found the same issue was the problem, which led to

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Speaker 1: this nineteen oh five law. It was amended in nineteen

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Speaker 1: fourteen to provide lunches during vacation times as well. Free

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Speaker 1: or very cheap milk got added into the mix in

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirty four. Throughout the early nineteen hundreds, a lot

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Speaker 1: of other European countries followed suit. For example, Holland enacted

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Speaker 1: a national legislation around providing school lunches in nineteen hundred.

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Speaker 1: Around the same time, a Swiss investigation found that teachers

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Speaker 1: reported students did better scholastically and were more likely to

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Speaker 1: attend school if lunch was provided, which led to government

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Speaker 1: funds going to supply children in need with clothes and lunch.

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Speaker 1: Further research led to recommendations about the nutrition recommendations of

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Speaker 1: the food provided. Norway started offering breakfast on top of

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Speaker 1: lunch and the results showed a lot of promise. So

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Speaker 1: people were looking into this. They were really looking into

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Speaker 1: the nutrition and the impact it had on education and

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Speaker 1: physical well being. Yeah, and this brings us to the US.

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Speaker 1: The US followed a somewhat similar path after most states

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Speaker 1: introduced compulsory education by the end of the eighteen hundreds.

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Speaker 1: It started with the smattering of localized organizations taking the

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Speaker 1: helm home. One of the first was an eighteen fifty

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Speaker 1: three effort to serve lunches to children attending a vocational

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Speaker 1: school that was undertaken by the Children's Aid Society of

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Speaker 1: New York, but that never really expanded beyond that. In

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Speaker 1: these early days, there were generally four main way students,

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Speaker 1: eight lunch homeschoolers, eight at home yep boarding school students,

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Speaker 1: eightth school Students in cities went home for lunch, and

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Speaker 1: students in rural areas either went home or ate a

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Speaker 1: lunch brought from home. Some of us did start to

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Speaker 1: shift in their early nineteen hundreds as more and more

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Speaker 1: women were able to obtain some kind of employment and

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Speaker 1: they couldn't prepare lunch for their children, so they instead

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Speaker 1: gave them a small allowance to buy from a food

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Speaker 1: cart or store. I found this really interesting because in

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Speaker 1: my school you were not allowed to leave for lunch.

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Speaker 1: That was like a big sin.

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Speaker 2: You could say, yeah, yeah, it really depends based on

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Speaker 2: where you're located and what everyone's situation is like.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, but that was what it was like at

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Speaker 1: the time. A couple of cities were experimenting with school

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Speaker 1: lunch programs soon after, including Philadelphia and Boston. A lot

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Speaker 1: of these programs had a lot of back and forth

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Speaker 1: about who should provide and manage the lunches, usually landing

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Speaker 1: on the school board itself, and just to note, a

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Speaker 1: lot of women's organizations were spearheading the push.

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Speaker 2: For all of this share.

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Speaker 1: There was also much discussion around nutrition. More and more

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Speaker 1: cities launched their own programs, often collecting data as they

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Speaker 1: did so these programs could look a lot of different ways.

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Speaker 1: Some offered breakfast, some a la carte. People were trying

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Speaker 1: all kinds of things, not to mention the different types

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Speaker 1: of food. As I said, if we had time, that's

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Speaker 1: what I would do right now. And it was really

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Speaker 1: interesting too because some of the schools had calorie requirements,

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Speaker 1: so they'd list the calories and the foods, and the

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Speaker 1: kids had to make sure to do the math and

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Speaker 1: meet them. So it'd be like, you can get one

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Speaker 1: item here and one item here, but you have.

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Speaker 2: To meet Yes, yeah, an apple, is this? A sandwich

399
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,920
Speaker 2: is worth this? Make sure that you add enough other

400
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,360
Speaker 2: calories to make up your totalchloric requirement. This was also

401
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,640
Speaker 2: a time when a lot of research was being done

402
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 2: into nutritional science and so yeah, so the concept of

403
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,880
Speaker 2: just pure calories was like new and exciting.

404
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:48,199
Speaker 1: It was. I also read a funny complaint from a

405
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Speaker 1: teacher from the time that said, they always choose the

406
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Speaker 1: dessert because it's got the most calories, and you.

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Speaker 2: Just feel like that was and it's dessert.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's kind of backfiring in that way.

409
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 2: Her slightly flawed mathematics there, but sure, yes, or science there. Yeah,

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00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 2: the math holds up.

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Speaker 1: It makes so much sense though when she said that,

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Speaker 1: I was nodding my head. Of course they went for

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Speaker 1: the dessert.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

415
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Speaker 1: Meanwhile, rural areas struggled establishing such programs due to lack

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Speaker 1: of space for a kitchen and or dining area, and

417
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Speaker 1: the distances the students traveled to arrive at the school,

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Speaker 1: so if they were bringing food from home, it could

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Speaker 1: freeze in certain environments. There was a lot of there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of consideration about how do we heat food

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Speaker 1: in this school?

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Sure.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that brought the issue of children

425
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Speaker 1: and hunger to the forefront of the American public was

426
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Speaker 1: the nineteen oh four book Poverty by Robert Hunter, in

427
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Speaker 1: which he wrote very passionately about the importance of making

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Speaker 1: sure a child has the proper nutrition to grow, and

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Speaker 1: how vital it was to learning. He argued that it

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00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 1: made no sense to have a while requiring children to

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00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 1: go to school if they weren't going to learn anything

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Speaker 1: because they were hungry. It makes yes, perfect, perfect sense. Yep,

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00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 1: perfect sense. So we've got a hodgepodge of programs funded

434
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Speaker 1: in part by local governments and philanthropic organizations, and we've

435
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: got growing concern over child malnutrition in the US, something

436
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 1: that only increased during the Great Depression in the nineteen thirties.

437
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Speaker 1: And this is when we start seeing state legislation and

438
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 1: federal aid enter the picture. But this too was kind

439
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 1: of sporadic and not at all standardized, not at all standards.

440
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 1: Another result of the Great Depression an ever growing surplus

441
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 1: of products grown on American farms, coinciding with an increase

442
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 1: of children who couldn't afford school. In nineteen thirty six,

443
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: the US government enacted legislation promoting the consumption of the

444
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 1: surplus products within the country by funneling some of these

445
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 1: products out of the typical trade in sales spaces and

446
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 1: turned the USDA purchased some of these goods and allocated

447
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 1: them to things like school lunches. So essentially they were

448
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 1: buying up some of the surplus, helping to even out

449
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 1: the price for the farmers and providing.

450
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 2: For exciting fo Yeah yep.

451
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 1: The Works Progress Administration or WPA, got involved in school

452
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 1: lunches in nineteen thirty five, employing largely women to cook,

453
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 1: assemble meals, make menus, come up with guidelines and sanitary

454
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 1: practices for school lunches all over the country. Since the

455
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 1: cost of that wasn't coming out of the budget of

456
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 1: the school, the price of the lunch remained low, and

457
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:54,719
Speaker 1: the number of schools offering lunches grew across the country.

458
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: They were in all states, Washington, d C. And Puerto

459
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 1: Rico by nineteen forty one. One. Then we get World

460
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 1: War two. World War two pretty much shut down the

461
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 1: WPA and siphoned up all of the surplus from the farms.

462
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 1: This majorly impacted the number of schools offering lunches and

463
00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 1: the quality of the lunches that were served. There were

464
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 1: some efforts to fix the situation, but it was a

465
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 1: year to year question of funding, which, as we know,

466
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: not ideal.

467
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, nope, not ideal.

468
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 1: So In nineteen forty six, the National School Lunch Act

469
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:43,239
Speaker 1: was passed, permanently allocating funding and not relying solely on

470
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 1: farming surpluses. There is a lot of complicated legalies around it,

471
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 1: but essentially it required that lunches be free or at

472
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: reduced cost, that it was nonprofit, and that surpluses be

473
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: utilized for these school lunches when't possible. There was a

474
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: bunch of other things, but main takeaways. Yeah yeah, just

475
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 1: like what happened in Europe. While there was an emphasis

476
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 1: on education, there was also an emphasis on how proper

477
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 1: nutrition would have children ready for war and more able

478
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 1: to resist communism.

479
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, Like it was explicitly stated in the act

480
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 2: that this was and I quote a measure of national security.

481
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 1: Yep. And speaking of communism. When trying to pass this act,

482
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: some politicians argued it was the dreaded socialism or communism.

483
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 1: Some made arguments about segregation too, since it was meant

484
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:53,760
Speaker 1: to be non discriminatory. Anyone can get it. By the way,

485
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 1: nineteen forty six is also around the time we get

486
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: the molded cafeteria trade, which a lot of us associate.

487
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 1: We school just sure, National School Lunch Week was established

488
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty two.

489
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 2: Yep, this is an event that still happens every year.

490
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 2: It's in the second full school week of October every year,

491
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 2: and it features it's trying just trying to get people

492
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 2: excited and participating in the school lunch program. Features like

493
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 2: special menus and events and activities. There's a theme every year.

494
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 2: For twenty twenty six, it's Cafeteria Circus.

495
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 1: I'm so curious.

496
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:40,239
Speaker 2: I think I think the concept is that is that,

497
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 2: like a ring master, a school is coordinating many different

498
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 2: acts in order to try to bring the fun experience

499
00:33:52,120 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 2: of a school lunch together. Okay, creative, sure, fun.

500
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 1: Listeners write in, I don't remember this at all. Might

501
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:09,879
Speaker 1: have just been off my radar. I don't know.

502
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 2: Oh, I feel like this is pinging like a very

503
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:18,439
Speaker 2: distant bell, maybe from either middle school or hype. Maybe

504
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 2: middle school. Like in the cafeteria, like there would be

505
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 2: like a poster competition every year to like follow the

506
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 2: theme in some way. Maybe that was a different goofy

507
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:35,239
Speaker 2: school participation thing. I'm not sure. Wow, Wow, that just

508
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 2: dredged up really really old memories.

509
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 1: That's great. People do have a lot of memories about

510
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:48,320
Speaker 1: school lunches, even if you didn't really partake.

511
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 2: I find sure no cafeteria culture alone is woof deah.

512
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, and just sitting in that lunch room. Yeah, as

513
00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:00,279
Speaker 1: a kid, it's a lot of drama and politics. Oh yeah,

514
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 1: where you sit? Oh yeah, I was eating what? Yeah? Well, Still,

515
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 1: there was continued conversation about nutrition. There were pilot breakfast programs,

516
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 1: there were milk programs. There was some inconsistency about what

517
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 1: should and shouldn't be provided. Some schools didn't have the

518
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 1: facilities to make lunches on site. These inconsistencies largely impacted

519
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,360
Speaker 1: those who could not afford to pay for their lunches

520
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 1: or bring their own. It didn't help that the funding

521
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 1: was inadequate. Pushes continued to look more into nutrition and

522
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 1: the importance it had on learning, but on top of

523
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 1: that concerns that school lunches didn't meet nutritional standards and

524
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:48,360
Speaker 1: were contributing to obesity. There were arguments about whether or

525
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 1: not private companies should be involved at all. Vending machines

526
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 1: huge topic of conversation. Fast food companies got in the

527
00:35:57,880 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 1: mix and seventies which, by the way, I did not

528
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 1: know that this was a thing. I'm so shocked that

529
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:06,239
Speaker 1: you had a pizza hut. Yeah, that's that was not

530
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:07,360
Speaker 1: happening at my school.

531
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 2: It might have been like specific days or something like.

532
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 2: I had very little pocket money as a kid, so

533
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,319
Speaker 2: I didn't like, I never bought anything from any of

534
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 2: these sources, so I don't have extremely specific memories about it.

535
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, And there was also conversation about how

536
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 1: these meals were involved in americanizing the diet of immigrants,

537
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:36,879
Speaker 1: since the offerings were pretty much traditional American foods. From

538
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:40,799
Speaker 1: what I read, cafeteria pizza entered the school lunch seen

539
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 1: in the seventies, which I know a lot of people

540
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 1: have memories of.

541
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 2: This is a very specific format of pizza, like like

542
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 2: there are recipes that the USDA puts together and distributes

543
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,240
Speaker 2: that have been like approved as part of the meal pattern,

544
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 2: you know, and this specific type of pizza is a

545
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 2: very nostalgic thing for a lot of humans. I feel

546
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 2: like we should do a whole at least many episode

547
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 2: about that one.

548
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: We should. I found so many articles people being like

549
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 1: the square pizza, you remember it well. The nineteen eighties

550
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 1: saw a lot of controversy and classifications of types of

551
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:31,720
Speaker 1: foods when it came to school lunches, ketchup and pickle

552
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 1: relish as vegetables for instance.

553
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:35,800
Speaker 2: Yep, yep.

554
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,839
Speaker 1: It was largely a cost cutting move on the government's part,

555
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 1: and the people were not happy. It was kind of

556
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:48,919
Speaker 1: a whole mess, and then President Reagan canceled the whole thing,

557
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 1: seemingly throwing the person who actually wanted to cancel it

558
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 1: under the bus. Classic Reagan, classic Ragon. Yeah, he was

559
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 1: like sky, Yes, that is another thing that could be

560
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:09,799
Speaker 1: a whole mini episode for sure. This was mirrored in

561
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 1: the UK when during the eighties Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher

562
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 1: and her Conservative Party were accused of milk snatching. They

563
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 1: allowed for private contractors to enter the market of school lunches,

564
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 1: and they lowered the cost by decreasing nutritional standards. A

565
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:32,839
Speaker 1: lot of fried foods became the norm.

566
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 2: So.

567
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 1: Very similar to what was going on in US.

568
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, fried or at the very least like baked, but

569
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 2: probably not that healthy anyway.

570
00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:50,799
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yes. Meanwhile, I read in the nineteen nineties more

571
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,760
Speaker 1: options were being offered depending on where in the United

572
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 1: States you were students were located, including made to order

573
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 1: sandwiches and deli bars. President Obama passed the Healthy Hunger

574
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 1: Free Kids Act in twenty ten, which was a passion

575
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 1: of First Lady Michelle Obamas for more kids to have

576
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:16,800
Speaker 1: access to healthier school lunches while limiting vending machine sales.

577
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 1: This got a lot of backlash from conservatives, but really

578
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:24,240
Speaker 1: it is in line with the long history of thoughts

579
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 1: around nutrition and school lunches.

580
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and especially in backlash to kind of everything

581
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:33,399
Speaker 2: that was going on in the eighties and nineties that

582
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 2: was not great for nutrition.

583
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 1: Exactly. And once again, the UK had a similar thing

584
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,320
Speaker 1: happen in two thousand and five after a four part

585
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 1: series called Jamie's School Dinners aired on Channel four. The

586
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:58,399
Speaker 1: series examined the low nutritional value of these meals and

587
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,760
Speaker 1: the fallout of them on health than education for the children.

588
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 1: The Turkey Twizzler in particular, came under fire. Turkey Twizzler,

589
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:14,760
Speaker 1: The turkey Twizzler, Lauren, This is a sort of curly

590
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: strip of fried turkey. It looks like a curly fry,

591
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 1: but the rings are thicker.

592
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 2: Okay, sure, yeah yeah.

593
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 1: After this aired, there was a push to offer healthier

594
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:31,760
Speaker 1: options for students. In response, some schools banned junk foods,

595
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 1: including the turkey Twizzler. Lrip and this also continues. I

596
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:45,719
Speaker 1: believe there was a legislation in twenty fifteen to keep improving, yeah,

597
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:50,840
Speaker 1: the nutrition of school lunches in the UK. During the pandemic,

598
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:56,440
Speaker 1: many school meal programs began offering pickup school lunch off rings.

599
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:02,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, which is a great yeah, and and right,

600
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 2: this is all absolutely out andgoing Updates continue to be

601
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 2: made to both the nutrition and the money ends of

602
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 2: the National School Lunch Program here in the United States,

603
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:17,759
Speaker 2: And I would imagine everywhere everywhere that school lunches are

604
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 2: a thing, you know, like like as we as we

605
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 2: rethink or or learn more about what nutrition means, and

606
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 2: as we kind of reckon with what kind of resources

607
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 2: are available two kids, and how to make sure that

608
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 2: we give everybody, you know, an opportunity to not be

609
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:42,719
Speaker 2: hungry in school man. You know, uh, just yeah, just

610
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 2: just a lot of work is still being.

611
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 1: Done, yes, yeah, And we really would love to hear

612
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: from you listeners, not only about what it's like in

613
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:56,800
Speaker 1: different countries, just the things that were offered.

614
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 2: The memories, yeah yeah, what dishes you remember, yeah yeah,

615
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:05,880
Speaker 2: the entire culture of school cafeterias.

616
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, did you have a red block? Was

617
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 1: it a space for protesters.

618
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, we're so curious about all of this,

619
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 2: and we'll have to do a few follow up episodes,

620
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 2: I think. But but yeah, I think that is what

621
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:34,799
Speaker 2: we have to say about school lunches for now.

622
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 1: Yes, I think so.

623
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 2: We do already have some listener mail for you, though,

624
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 2: and we're going to get into that as soon as

625
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:44,880
Speaker 2: we get back from one more quick break for a

626
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 2: word from our sponsors.

627
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:59,360
Speaker 1: Here, we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, and

628
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 1: we're back on the snuner. I wanted to do like

629
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 1: an Arthur theme, but I couldn't. There's so many things

630
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 1: I can't communicate.

631
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 2: Uh, to be fair, I was entirely too old for

632
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:21,799
Speaker 2: Arthur by the time it occurred. So you would have

633
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:24,719
Speaker 2: you would have missed me that that Yeah, I mean,

634
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 2: I'm aware that that it's a thing, but like, you know, what.

635
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 1: A wonderful kind of day, Lauren, that show, like you know,

636
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 1: the things that are in your brain and you just

637
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:41,239
Speaker 1: can't get rid of that show that's there.

638
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:45,319
Speaker 2: From what I understand, it's a good one to have

639
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:45,799
Speaker 2: back there.

640
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, yes, okay, Carla wrote, I've been listening to

641
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:56,759
Speaker 1: Savor for a few years. Now. I love the way

642
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:58,920
Speaker 1: the two of you interact with each other and provide

643
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 1: an entertaining, end formative look at so many different foods

644
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 1: and food related experiences. You've sent me on quite a

645
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 1: few journeys in my own kitchen exploring a new fruit, vegetable, cheese,

646
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:12,240
Speaker 1: or condiment. But this is the first time I've written

647
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,719
Speaker 1: I just listened to your episode on Jola Frice. While

648
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 1: Savor is a frequent inspiration for me to try new foods,

649
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 1: there are others as well. I was reading books by

650
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 1: Nigerian American authors and the TV series Bob Hart's ab

651
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 1: Shola that nudged me to try making jolafrice at home

652
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago. When I explore recipes that

653
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 1: aren't part of my personal heritage, I try to avoid

654
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 1: Food Network, celebrity chefs and other sites where there may

655
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:44,759
Speaker 1: be more innovation and less authenticity. Instead, I look for

656
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 1: sites with an authentic connection to the recipe, and looking

657
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 1: for a recipe for Jola frice, I discovered Chef Lola's Kitchen.

658
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:55,800
Speaker 1: Chef Lola ausen Kulu is a Nigerian food blogger whose

659
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:59,359
Speaker 1: recipe for joelaf I've made and enjoyed several times now.

660
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,279
Speaker 1: Even though it takes a little work, it's not too

661
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 1: difficult if you read the recipe all the way through

662
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:08,400
Speaker 1: first and watch Chef Lola's video. Her jola rice is

663
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 1: a warm, comforting, filling dish. If anyone is looking for

664
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 1: an authentic Nigerian jola recipe to try at home, I

665
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 1: highly recommend Chef Loola's Well. First of all, so glad

666
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 1: that you've been listening for years. Yeah it's your first

667
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 1: time writing. Yeah, welcome hello, Yes, welcome in Hello. I

668
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 1: think this is great advice to seek out, not like

669
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 1: food Network, which can be a great resource, sure, sure,

670
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:43,319
Speaker 1: but to look forward, you know, off the beaten path

671
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:47,799
Speaker 1: where it might be you'll find something that isn't the

672
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:49,839
Speaker 1: Disney version maybe yeah yeah.

673
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,840
Speaker 2: And someone who seems to be speaking from personal experience

674
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 2: about something is always is always a great resource.

675
00:45:56,560 --> 00:46:00,319
Speaker 1: Yes, I believe the recipe I use for when I

676
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 1: make Oxdale stew I really went out of my way

677
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 1: to be like, I want somebody from this place that

678
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:11,120
Speaker 1: makes it a lot and where it's a traditional dish

679
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 1: and it's I love it. It's one of my favorite I've.

680
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 2: Never made oxtaiale stew Okay, all right, I'll figure it out.

681
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,800
Speaker 1: I feel like your homework list is just getting longer

682
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:23,280
Speaker 1: and longer.

683
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 2: Oh, yes, welcomed. Yes, it doesn't help that I'm a

684
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 2: food podcaster.

685
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:35,800
Speaker 1: It's true, that's true.

686
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:39,799
Speaker 2: I have been avoiding oxtail just because, like I, every

687
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:42,320
Speaker 2: time I see them, I'm like, oh, that's a little expensive.

688
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 1: They're so expensive. Yeah, I feel like when I was

689
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 1: making it, they were not.

690
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 2: Oh okayh yeah. Yeah. So that that's the kind of

691
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:57,320
Speaker 2: thing that makes me go, oh, maybe I'll just maybe

692
00:46:57,400 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 2: I'll just do a.

693
00:46:57,960 --> 00:46:58,799
Speaker 1: Nice rego again.

694
00:46:58,840 --> 00:46:59,840
Speaker 2: That's fine, that's fine.

695
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, but thank you for the tip. Yes, I

696
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 1: haven't had allow for us since we did that episode,

697
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 1: so me neither.

698
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 2: Oh and this looks yeah, and I'll definitely check out

699
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:16,840
Speaker 2: chefalo Li's kitchen. That sounds man good good. Internet chefs

700
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:21,240
Speaker 2: are so nice mm hmmm mmming. So lovely about watching

701
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 2: someone else cook.

702
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 1: Yes, there's a little sadness at the end when you're

703
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 1: not eating it, but until then, it's very lovely.

704
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 2: We need that Wonka vision. Yeah, yeah, Sheldon wrote, Sometimes

705
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 2: I get into slumps and can't think of something to

706
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 2: make for supper. It was like that this morning, and

707
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:42,840
Speaker 2: I was racking my brain trying to think of something

708
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:45,480
Speaker 2: to make. I wake up early and listen to podcasts

709
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 2: while my wife sleeps, and your non episode came on. Yes,

710
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 2: I haven't made none in a while. Fresh baked non

711
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:54,720
Speaker 2: with some curry will make a great supper, so thanks

712
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 2: again for kicking my brain. When I make them, I

713
00:47:57,520 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 2: add a touch of whole wheat flour, and I use

714
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 2: buttermil consider of yogurt because I always have some of

715
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:05,880
Speaker 2: that around, and buttermilk contains bacteria poop, just like yogurt.

716
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 2: I have a gas powered pizza oven on my deck

717
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:10,920
Speaker 2: in the back, and it gets up to nine hundred

718
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 2: degrees fahrenheit. It's fantastic for cooking non and pita and

719
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 2: bagels and pizza two. I make a small batch of dough,

720
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:21,279
Speaker 2: just enough of my wife and I I roll them

721
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 2: out in the kitchen. Then when the supper is ready,

722
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 2: I go out back and cook them. I do one

723
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:28,239
Speaker 2: at a time. I toss it in and within ten

724
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:31,479
Speaker 2: seconds it puffs right up and is finished in thirty

725
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:34,279
Speaker 2: to forty five seconds. I wonder if you should do

726
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:36,840
Speaker 2: a show on those ovens, which have become quite popular

727
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 2: over the past five years or so. They're a game

728
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 2: changer for home pizza making, and they're useful for many

729
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:47,720
Speaker 2: other things. Also Pet tax, my son holding Teat Poulet,

730
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 2: Teat Polet being a cat previously featured in a pet

731
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:59,040
Speaker 2: tax in this In this photograph, Teat pole At is

732
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:08,520
Speaker 2: where a little blue, spiky hood, and he looks extremely

733
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:14,920
Speaker 2: disappointed in all of the humans involved. He's he is

734
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:20,239
Speaker 2: a very handsome tabby cat. I think I've got the

735
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 2: right gender. It's a cat. Cats don't really have gender norms.

736
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:28,920
Speaker 2: The little blue bonnet is very cute, anti Pole does

737
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:31,960
Speaker 2: not appreciate it in any way, shape or form.

738
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:38,480
Speaker 1: No, the gaze is murderous. Oh.

739
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 2: I love an angry cat wearing a little bonnet. It's

740
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:43,440
Speaker 2: one of the deepest joys in my life.

741
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:48,840
Speaker 1: The cat is thinking about revenge.

742
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:50,440
Speaker 2: Oh heck.

743
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:53,560
Speaker 1: In this photo it's fantastic.

744
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I'm grateful for the photo, but I'm

745
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:02,399
Speaker 2: also uh, I'm also my dear friend. This cat knows

746
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:13,719
Speaker 2: where you sleep. It's clearly plotting. Plotting. Yeah, I love

747
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 2: how people are like cats are expressionless, and I'm like,

748
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:20,600
Speaker 2: have you met one? They might not have many expressions, but.

749
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:29,440
Speaker 3: The ones they have communicate clearly you done messed up

750
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:33,279
Speaker 3: for it, You'll be paying for it.

751
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 1: Goodness. Well.

752
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:40,800
Speaker 2: Also also a pizza pizza ovens. Yes, little little gas

753
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:47,319
Speaker 2: powered pizza ovens. Yeah, so cool. I've never used one.

754
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:49,359
Speaker 2: One of my friends got one and then like kind

755
00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 2: of immediately broke it. Yeah. Yeah, it was a well

756
00:50:55,040 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 2: meaning third party friend tried to cool it down by

757
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:04,000
Speaker 2: splashing water on it when it was way too hot

758
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 2: to do that, and it just cracked. It just went

759
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 2: war wound. Oh no, yeah, but uh so that's my experience.

760
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:15,799
Speaker 2: But uh but yeah, No, they are fantastic.

761
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:19,840
Speaker 1: I'm very jealous of anybody who has when I'm sad

762
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:24,840
Speaker 1: for someone who loses one in such a way. But no,

763
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 1: I'm very jealous. And I do love that you listen

764
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:30,800
Speaker 1: to the podcast and we're like, non.

765
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:31,479
Speaker 2: Is what there?

766
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 1: We go do?

767
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:33,360
Speaker 2: Perfect?

768
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:38,080
Speaker 1: And I you also sending pictures of you making the non,

769
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:43,759
Speaker 1: and I really appreciate that there's snow yeah in the background.

770
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:46,560
Speaker 2: I didn't even scroll down here. I am mm.

771
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:52,799
Speaker 1: Hmmm, just making non with a snowy background. Thirty to

772
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 1: forty five seconds. There you go. Delightful, delightful, gred Oh

773
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 1: my gosh, jealousy once again.

774
00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:07,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, this Wonka vision thing that we were talking about

775
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 2: a second ago, here it is. Yeah, we need it.

776
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:14,839
Speaker 1: We need it, we do, we do, but we do

777
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:22,280
Speaker 1: appreciate feeling the jealousy. Don't yet stop you no, So

778
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:24,360
Speaker 1: thank you to both of these listeners for writing it.

779
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 1: If you would like to write to us, you can.

780
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:28,399
Speaker 1: Our email is Hello at savorpod dot com.

781
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 2: We're also on social media. You can find us on

782
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:34,799
Speaker 2: Instagram and blue Sky at savor pod, and we do

783
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:37,839
Speaker 2: hope to hear from you. Savor is production of iHeartRadio.

784
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:40,279
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit

785
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:43,400
Speaker 2: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

786
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 2: your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our super producers

787
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 2: Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,

788
00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:51,479
Speaker 2: and we hope that lots more good things are coming

789
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:59,879
Speaker 2: your way