WEBVTT - Jaan Uhelszki 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:12.320 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob left Set podcast. 0:00:12.880 --> 0:00:18.360 My guest today his music Writers, who was senior editor 0:00:18.520 --> 0:00:23.680 at Crew Magazine in addition to her other accomplishments. Jan, Hi, 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:27.400 how are you. I'm good. So there's a new documentary 0:00:27.440 --> 0:00:30.920 on Queen Magazine. Are you happy with it? I am 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:33.040 happy with it. I mean, I have to say I 0:00:33.159 --> 0:00:35.720 ended up with ulcers of the three years of making it, 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:39.680 but the end product actually is much better than I 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:42.880 ever imagined it would be. Well, if you had ulcers 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:45.280 for three years, that would indicate you were heavily involved 0:00:45.280 --> 0:00:47.479 in the production of the film. H Can you tell 0:00:47.560 --> 0:00:51.480 us more about that? Yeah, I actually wasn't. Initially, I 0:00:51.640 --> 0:00:55.040 was the conduit between J. J. Kramer, whose father was 0:00:55.120 --> 0:00:58.400 Barry Kramer, the founder of the magazine, and Scott Crawford, 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:01.480 who I had worked with at Heart Magazine. And I 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:04.360 made the introduction and I thought that was just enough 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:07.640 until they kept asking me questions, and the questions were 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:11.280 really bad, like oh, I've got to jump in here 0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:13.240 and say no, no, no, no, this is the way 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:17.880 it was. So just in increments they pulled me into 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:20.959 being first a consultant and then a co writer and 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:23.160 then a co producer, So I ended up having to 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:26.240 wrangle most of the bands that you see in the 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:29.919 documentary because honestly, it was time to collect the favors. 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:32.840 You know. It's like if I had bead on the 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:35.800 road with Kiss as many times as I have and 0:01:35.959 --> 0:01:38.120 got on stage, then my figured they could speak in 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:40.480 the documentary. So it was one of those things. I 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:42.920 just got out all the trading cards and started cashing 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:45.160 them in. Okay, Well, you you said they had bad 0:01:45.240 --> 0:01:47.880 questions which would indicate a lack of knowledge. You remember 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:50.400 any of them? Well, I think that they wondered, Like 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:53.120 they would ask me questions like who is this? Like 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:55.640 who is Rick Siegel? Who is Dealer? And are these 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:59.040 people important? You know, the very first pillars of the 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:01.800 people who founded Cream. So they didn't have this working 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:04.400 knowledge of that, and I only did because I was there, 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:08.480 you know. I mean the sad truth about rock journalism 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:12.520 and maybe rock bands is they eat their young. So 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:15.519 there weren't a lot of us around to ask, so 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:18.840 it was pretty much me and J. J. Cramer's mother, 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:22.480 Connie Kramer, who were actually witness this to this. So 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:25.640 I felt like I had the sacred duty honestly a 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:28.320 sacred duty to get in there and get it right 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:32.000 for them. Now you say you wrote the film. Uh, 0:02:32.160 --> 0:02:34.720 had you had any experience in film or was that 0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:38.000 required in this case? It's kind of like it I 0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:41.960 ever written before I went to Cream. No, no, uh no, 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:45.400 it was It was not. It wasn't like writing the script. 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:49.120 It was more like fashioning the right questions to elicit 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:51.680 the stories that I wanted to tell, the things that 0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:54.840 I remembered that were important. And as it went along, 0:02:54.960 --> 0:03:00.440 it started a narrative. Arcs started being creative by actually 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:03.880 the interviews. It's like the first rule of journalism, Like 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:06.280 when you go into a story, you can't go with 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:08.960 any preconceived notions. You have an idea of what you want, 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:12.240 but you have to let the witnesses speak. And the 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:16.240 better story was there. Um. It really started to have 0:03:16.400 --> 0:03:20.680 shape when we interviewed Cameron Crowe and he likened Cream 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:24.440 to a band and with three members. I mean it 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:26.680 actually had more members and it was more like an 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:30.440 ensemble cast of friends. But that was a really good 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:34.520 hook because we could organize the three big personalities that 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:37.520 really were the foundation of Cream. Berry Kramer, who was 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:41.880 a pugnacious visionary who picked a fight to get what 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:46.840 he wanted. Dave Marsh another pugnacious visionary unless your bangs, 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:51.280 who never took anything seriously but was a covert intellectual. 0:03:51.440 --> 0:03:55.440 So it was this really combination of these three personalities 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:58.920 that made Cream and the various camps that collected around 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:03.800 their viewpoints. So that I mean, I like, oh, Cameron 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:06.160 a big debt for actually making it easier for us. 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:10.200 And of course Barry and Lester are deceased, so that 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:14.640 makes it even more difficult. Were there any discussions, arguments, 0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:18.880 disagreements over what the history was, Well, I think that 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:22.280 people think it's one way, and it really wasn't. I 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:25.680 think that there's this whole perception of when you're writing 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:27.760 stuff that comes out of your fingers. There's not a 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:30.719 lot of machinations and how to get the right people, 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:33.040 or how to get the right acts to cover, or 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:38.600 or exactly how bombastic and how i'm gonna say glamorous, 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:42.760 but how exciting it was to be in the presence 0:04:42.880 --> 0:04:46.920 of rock when it was really I'm not gonna say infancy, 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:50.359 because we really were late sixties early seventies rock, but 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:55.000 there was this collaborative notion between the bands and the 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:57.720 journalists and the photographers that we're all doing the same 0:04:57.760 --> 0:05:00.719 thing together and we were going to actually feed off 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:03.640 of each other. So I thought that was important because 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:06.680 especially in a time period where you get no access 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:09.760 or very little access to an artist, then it was 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:14.840 really it was anything but that. I mean there were 0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:18.000 times when we would take like Leslie West, the guitarists 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:21.080 from Mountain, and we would convince him to be on 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:23.839 our cover, but to do that here we had to 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:27.080 cover him in Whitecastle Hamburgers. So it was like there 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:29.320 was all these deals struck, but it was all this 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:32.160 sense of fun, like we felt like we were on 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:35.480 the same side. And honestly, the difference between the rock 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:38.760 writers that Cream and the artists were they had better clothes, 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:42.920 I mean, playing and simple, and probably more money or 0:05:42.960 --> 0:05:45.560 access to more money, yeah, more money than and you 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:48.400 know all the things that went along with it. But 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:52.120 it really there wasn't the sense of there in Valhalla 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:54.560 and we were it was it was really that we 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:57.800 were all in the same playing field. Well, of course 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:00.719 this was a heyday, as you say, sort of the 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:03.200 second wave. We had the British invasion than we had 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:05.520 album rock and that's when Queen began. And then of 0:06:05.560 --> 0:06:08.440 course it was mega in the early seventies. You had 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:12.560 access when no one had access. Did it become dere 0:06:12.640 --> 0:06:15.240 gourt you or were you pinching yourself all the time? 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:19.200 You know? I think I think we had this real 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:22.679 sense of that they weren't that much different. I mean, okay, 0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:25.440 going on on tour with LEDs up and I was 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:29.560 pinching myself and wishing that they weren't such an assholes 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:33.480 at times, you know. But but the fact was it 0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:35.720 was that was one that got me. Other than that 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:39.440 I had actually had a job. There was a bollroom 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:42.320 and in Detroit called the Granny Ballroom. It was model 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:44.760 on a film more experiment, you know, like the Bill 0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:49.039 Graham And there's a documentary online about it, right, yeah, 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:51.640 there is. So I was the Coca Cola girl there 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:53.880 for three years, so I actually saw everybody and I 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:55.840 had to bring them Coca cola. So I saw a 0:06:55.839 --> 0:06:58.080 lot of a little bit slower. What was what were 0:06:58.120 --> 0:07:01.040 the duties of the Coca Cola girl? The biggest duty 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:03.680 was to make sure no one spiked the Coca Cola's 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:07.279 because it was those years of dosing, especially when the 0:07:07.320 --> 0:07:10.760 Grateful Dead would play the Grandy Ballroom. So my most 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:14.360 important job was to keep my eye on the sodas 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:16.679 because what you would do is because it was such. 0:07:16.960 --> 0:07:19.280 It would be a big night, especially in the summer, 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:21.880 and you lay out all the drinks and some would 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:24.200 come along and try to put LSD into the drinks. 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:26.920 And that happened so many times that that was a 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:31.240 designated role. Okay, that that begs the question. Were you 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:35.520 ever dosed? Only once? But not at the Grandy Ballroom 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:39.080 only there was a festival called the Goose Lake Festival. 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:43.080 It was the same dosing that felled the Stooges. Uh 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:46.320 Dave Alexander, the guitar player the Stooges, also got dozed 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:48.480 and when he got on stage to play with the Stooges, 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:51.760 he forgot how to play guitar. Had I had a guitar, 0:07:51.800 --> 0:07:54.800 I would have forgotten how to play guitar. But that 0:07:54.880 --> 0:07:57.840 was the only time. No, I was really shrewd about it. 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:01.480 When you saw your friends babbling, I mean, the whole 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:04.480 thing about being dosed, you just think you're going to say, 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:07.320 do you have a grand brain aneurism? You don't think 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:10.840 you're dose. You just think something is profoundly wrong. So 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:14.320 that just scared me. Okay. Staying on that same tip, 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:17.880 even though alcohol really came back in the seventies, were 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:21.360 you someone who got involved in drugs and alcohol? No, 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:24.840 I honestly, to be completely real, there are too many 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:30.080 calories and alcohol because, to quote the Sainted Paul Family, 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:33.400 he says, rock and roll is never kind to the 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:36.840 fat boy. Rock and roll is less kind to the 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:40.240 rock writer. You know, you can't look like someone's mother 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:43.520 or grandmother or fat cousin. If you're going to interview 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:45.600 rock bands, You've got to like dress the part. And 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:48.320 that was always part of it. Okay, Well that begs 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:52.760 the question once again, are you will you consider yourself 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:56.000 at that time to be anorexic? Uh? There are days 0:08:56.080 --> 0:08:59.520 I was a little antorexic. Yeah. Um, you know I've 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:02.960 I've always tried to be you know, trying to be spin. 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:07.559 But yeah, there were times where I was definitely following 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:11.080 the Patty Boy diet of two salting crackers and a 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:15.760 slice of cheese. So yeah I was. And how about today? 0:09:15.960 --> 0:09:21.360 Not today? Not just normal? Okay, So you get a 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:24.600 gig at the Grandy Ballroom. How old are you? I 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:28.520 was fifteen? Okay. Where I grew up in Connecticut, you 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:31.440 couldn't work legally until you were sixteen. What was the 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:37.559 situation in Michigan? False? I D? Okay, And I mean, 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:40.319 first of all I went there. You had to be seventeen, 0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:43.079 but I had a friendhood and older sisters, and it 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:46.120 was you could have idea that didn't have pictures on it. 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:47.719 You can get in with your school, I D. So 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:49.679 I got into the ball room with a false I D. 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:52.840 And I just never told them I wasn't seventeen, okay. 0:09:52.840 --> 0:09:55.600 Two questions to get into the venue. Did you have 0:09:55.679 --> 0:10:00.360 to be seventeen just to work there? Okay? So prior 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:03.320 to getting this gig at the Grandy Ballroom, how many 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:06.840 hell active were you in seeing shows? Well? I was. 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:10.520 The bar was adjacent to the stage, so I could 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:13.280 I could always have a prince ide to the stage. 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:15.760 I guess what I'm really asking is, prior to working 0:10:15.760 --> 0:10:20.040 at the Grandy Ballroom, were you an avid concertgoer? Oh? Yeah, 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:22.920 I mean I convinced my parents to let me go 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:26.040 see the Stones in nineteen sixty six, all by myself. 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:29.920 So yeah, I have always all about yourself aline myself. 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:33.079 I think about that now, like, what the help were 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:37.400 they thinking and just dropping me off and arena, Um, 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:40.199 I would go see bands by myself because nobody wanted 0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:42.479 to go with me. Well, I have that same experience. 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:44.599 I don't remember it at ten, but certainly once you 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:47.800 hit like fourteen fifteen and later, you know I would. 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:49.199 I would go and no one want to go, but 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:52.880 it wouldn't stop me. And the other thing that people 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:54.640 say is I have a friend of his concert promoter 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:57.560 in Denver. He says, well, he thinks about it throwing 0:10:57.559 --> 0:11:00.280 a party, whereas back then they used to have seats. 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:03.440 It was like a religious experience more than you know, 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:06.840 just hanging with the people. Oh yeah, it really was. 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:09.640 It was like we were one. You know. It wasn't 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:13.360 like not too continually like conjure up the grateful dead, 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:16.400 but there was that sense of community that really came 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:18.400 out of the sixties that we were one. We were 0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:21.880 all in it together. This was holy and actually there's 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:24.800 like some some kind of information that we're all sharing. 0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:27.680 It's kinda like close encounters of the third kind. We 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:31.560 all saw mashed potatoes, we all saw mountains that our 0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:35.240 mashed potatoes, So there was there was just something addictive 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:38.800 about it. And well, a lot of our generations sold 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:42.880 out after Reagan lowered taxes and legitimized greed. Where did 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:46.280 that leave you? Um? I had my mom years. I 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:50.120 actually um got off the road. I think I saw 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:52.559 another lids up until I got off the road. I 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:55.439 found out that I was pregnant and thought, okay, you 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:57.480 cannot be a mom and be a rock writer and 0:11:57.480 --> 0:11:59.720 be on the road. So I actually took the eighties off. 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:02.360 My daughter was born eighty, and I didn't really I 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:04.760 came back and wrote like in the mid eighties, and 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:09.040 then came back completely in ninety one. And were you 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:13.400 married to your daughter's father? I was yes? And was 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:18.240 he in the music business? Yes, he owned berserk Lee Records. Um, okay, 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:21.720 that's Matthew KINGE Coffin. You are still married to him? Yes, 0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:25.000 I am. That's you know, that's very rare, not only 0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:29.520 for people who our generation, but people our age. How 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:32.440 did you meet him? I was working for a record 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:35.080 World that was with a minor trade in the in 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:39.600 the triad of trades and cash box billboard and record World, 0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:42.559 which supposedly had the best charts that's what they said 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:46.600 Record World. They did say that for so many reasons, 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:50.679 but we will not explore here. And I was doing 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:54.319 a column called The Coast and it was deadline and 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:58.439 I got a tip from Toby Mamas, who now works 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:02.400 for Alice Cooper. Yeah, I hear from every day, I'm sure, 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:09.559 And he told me that Journey who had to managers, Um, 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:13.440 we're actually splitting ways. And I just stuck it in 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:16.240 the end of my column. No big deal, It wasn't flashy. 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:19.400 I just because I had an industry column. So the 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:22.120 next week I get a call from Rogerson Cowen and 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:25.160 they have a client, Matthew King Kaufman, and he wants 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:30.680 to take whoever wrote the item about um the Journey 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:33.680 managers to lunch because he had just had lunch with 0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:36.640 them and they didn't tell him that that he that 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:39.160 they were breaking up. So he came down to l 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:43.960 A from Berkeley and took me to lunch and we 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:46.319 hit it off. He uh, he used to go to 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:47.960 the track. I used to go to the track. And 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:50.800 he had this contraption called a bio later and I 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:54.760 definitely have a metaphysical bend. And the bileage showed you 0:13:54.760 --> 0:14:00.920 your virhythms. But also seemed like JFK had three critical 0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:03.560 days in the day died. So I was fascinated, like 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:05.640 I wanted to see the day I was going to die. 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:09.040 So he left that lunch and he gave me his violator. 0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:15.960 So fast forward, how many years later? Yeah, still married? Okay, 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:19.880 so it was essentially an instant romance. No, actually a boyfriend. 0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:23.120 So I had to work work through that, you know. 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:26.320 I we were friends for about six months and we 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:27.920 would go to the track and then one day I 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:32.400 just thought, Wow, I've got something for this guy, Like 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:36.840 there's there's some chemistry. It's a slow burn. Okay, why 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:41.080 the track. I had an uncle who had horses, and 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:43.920 um he taught me how to handicap as a kid. 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:45.640 And I've always been really good at math, and I 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:48.360 love astrology, so I always would say, oh, it's just 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:52.120 horse astrology. If you figure out a horse's patterns much 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:55.680 like astrology, figure out some of these transits, then you 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:59.080 can actually be pretty good at predict who's going to 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:02.960 win at the track. And I was. And Matt grew 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:06.760 up across from Kilmaco in Maryland and he used to 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:08.960 go to the track as a kid. So we both 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:12.640 were handicappers, I mean one of those oddball kind of association. 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:16.080 So what was your biggest win ever? Enough to buy 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:21.080 furniture from my living room? And and at this if 0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:24.360 we close your bedding career today in the black or 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:30.440 the red? Oh, definitely the black. Wo. Yeah, I'm careful 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:34.560 better and I'm really O C D about my numbers. Okay, 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:37.080 so I'll ask you, is it fixed or is it not? 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:41.000 Even if it is, there's certain things when you look 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:43.080 at a horse. There's a there used to be a 0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:46.520 video tip called the fit of I think It's fit 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:49.760 racehorse by this woman called Bonnie lead Better, and she 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:52.800 would show you the physicality of a horse and how 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:55.760 you you should bet at it that if it has 0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:58.680 certain kind of attributes, or if it had foam in 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:01.560 his leg or any of those things. So, even if 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:05.360 it's fixed, which I'm certain it is, you can still 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:07.360 override that if you look at the condition of horse, 0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:09.640 because sometimes the horse just wants to run, no matter 0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:12.680 what the jockeys thinking. Okay, let's go back to the 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:15.320 Grandy ball room. So you're the coke girl. How long 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:19.080 does that last? That loss? About three years? And in 0:16:19.120 --> 0:16:21.560 that three years, you have a desire to get deeper 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:25.280 into the music business. Well, I would go home after 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:28.360 after my shift two o'clock in the morning, and I 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:31.480 would write about what I've seen. I just had a 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:33.640 sense it was better the second time around. So always 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:36.800 I was doing this little ad hoc reviews for myself, 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:42.240 just writing about bands. And right next to the the 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:45.720 coke counter there was a little kiosk. It was very 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:49.000 Kramer had a head shop and they sold like papers 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:52.800 and sundry things, and they sold cream magazines. I wasn't 0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:57.000 there from day one, but I used to say them, Okay, 0:16:57.080 --> 0:16:59.720 if I give you free Coca colas, can I write 0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:02.920 for magazine? And they go, oh yeah, sure. But I 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:05.320 kept doing that because I was bent and determined that 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:07.159 I would write for cream magazine because there was not 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:10.000 the game in town. So yeah, it's funny because and 0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:13.000 I worked in this place called the bird Feeder where 0:17:13.040 --> 0:17:17.359 you said food on the plaza at Snowbird in Utah. 0:17:17.800 --> 0:17:20.760 I would cree favor with the freestyle skiers by giving 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:23.800 them big ice cream. So it's like the same thing. 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:28.480 I've never actually had that experience. Okay, so you're staying 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:31.080 up till two in the morning when you're in high school. 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:34.720 I am, and your parents totally cool with that. My 0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:38.639 mom was a dancer and she she used to dance 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:41.760 with jazz bands. So she said to me when I 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:43.560 was really young, the only thing I'm going to tell 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:46.840 you is never date a sax player and never try heroin. 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:51.600 So she was absolutely cool, you know. She They really 0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:54.119 gave me a long leash. You know, they were they 0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:57.679 were kind of Matthew. My husband always says they were 0:17:57.720 --> 0:18:00.240 like Sid and Nancy, you know, because my parents just 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:04.880 like wild hipsters. So yeah, it was just normal for me. Okay, 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:10.680 so when did you do your homework? I did on Sundays. Actually, 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:12.960 like to this day, I hate Sundays because I had 0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:17.760 to do play catchup. Okay, so you graduate from high school, 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:21.760 you're still working at the Grandy Ballroom. And then where 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:23.840 do you end up going to college? I go to 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:29.720 Wayne State University UM, and I actually that's actually the 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:34.000 bigger entrance to the Cream because when I was registering, 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:37.240 a friend of mine, unbeknownst he was growing out with 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:39.840 the art director at Cream, Charlie Oranger, And she says 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:42.440 to me, I'm just about to break up with them, 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:44.320 you know, I've got somebody else I have my eye 0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:46.880 and I go, really, why would you? And she goes, 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:48.639 I don't know, it's just not my types. I said, 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:53.400 do you mind if I actually make a play for him? Um. 0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:55.920 It was very subtle, but that was it. I met 0:18:56.000 --> 0:18:58.440 Charlie Oranger, and that's how I got to Cream. Really 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:01.120 is that we just started having coffee dates and Um 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:03.920 eventually brought me over to the offices. So I met 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:07.840 everybody that way. Okay, did you graduate from college? Eventually? 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:11.320 I graduated ninety two because I was I finally got 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:13.919 a job full time at Cream and I couldn't do 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:16.800 college and Cream that I couldn't do that homework, so 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:19.800 I dropped out about a year and a half into it. 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:25.440 And then what was the motivation in the execution of graduating? Well, 0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:29.040 I always felt like I wanted to to actually get 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:31.439 a degree, But I think the other thing is having 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:34.920 those ten mom years where I was just really pretty 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:39.520 much a housewife and learning astrology and playing the horses. 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:42.280 I thought, I've got to figure out my next act. 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:44.919 So I went back to school thinking I'd be a 0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:48.320 history teacher. I got a degree in history, and the 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:51.199 only job I could get besides working for the Democratic 0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:55.560 Party was working at magazine. So I worked at Band 0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:58.439 magazine for a while, and then I just started freelancing 0:19:58.480 --> 0:20:01.199 and then really worked my way back to my you know, 0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:05.200 chop wood carry water before Enlightenment, chop wood carry water 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:08.760 after Enlightenment. I just became myself again. Okay. And where 0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:14.200 did you get your degree? Cal Berkeley? Okay, so let's 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:17.720 go back. So you meet Orange or in the back 0:20:17.720 --> 0:20:20.199 of your mind you want to work for queam in 0:20:20.200 --> 0:20:23.560 in front of my mind, I want to work for Cream. Okay. 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:27.080 So this this is when you're like a freshman that 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:30.800 this starts to happen. Yeah, I'm a freshman. Okay, So 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:32.960 how do you drop it on him that, hey, I 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:35.359 want a connection to the magazine. You know, it was 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:37.280 just really subtle. He knew I was a writer, and 0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:40.320 I was writing. I mean for myself. I had published 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:42.680 except for, you know, a couple of things in like 0:20:42.920 --> 0:20:46.760 high school paper, but other than that nothing, And I 0:20:46.800 --> 0:20:49.480 just talked about wanting to be a writer. So he 0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:52.280 lived at the Cream offices. Cream was a series of 0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:55.959 communes for the first like eight years or so, so 0:20:56.080 --> 0:20:58.600 he lived where the offices were very Cramer and Dave 0:20:58.640 --> 0:21:01.119 Marsh lives, so I would go there with them and 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:04.120 I hit it up. It wasn't so strategic. I mean 0:21:04.200 --> 0:21:06.440 I like to be around people like me. I mean, 0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:11.760 there is that whole misfit outsider aspect of Cream magazine anyway, 0:21:11.840 --> 0:21:13.840 and there was something that connected all the people who 0:21:14.000 --> 0:21:16.439 ended up working there, and I just I really hit 0:21:16.480 --> 0:21:20.440 it off with Dave Marsh immediately, and Barry Kramer scared 0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:23.880 me for the longest time, but you know, I felt 0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:27.119 like I was home. It's funny you mentioned that, because 0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:30.720 that used to be a defining marker, uh, the inside 0:21:30.720 --> 0:21:33.600 outside and the fact that, I mean a person who 0:21:33.600 --> 0:21:35.480 was captain of the football team would never be the 0:21:35.520 --> 0:21:39.399 big Rock fan insider. And now it's all you know. 0:21:39.440 --> 0:21:41.240 You see people going to the Stone show and buying 0:21:41.280 --> 0:21:44.040 five leather jackets. You go, they were not into the 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:47.720 Stones back when you went in sixty six. I know, right, 0:21:47.920 --> 0:21:50.680 I I think about that, like, especially if I don't 0:21:50.720 --> 0:21:53.160 know about you, but I've gone to my high school reunions. 0:21:53.840 --> 0:21:58.119 I have not. Oh, I don't recommend it, but well, 0:21:58.320 --> 0:22:02.080 let's float down fascinated. Which reunions have you been to? 0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:04.000 Did you start like right away, I like with the 0:22:04.040 --> 0:22:06.359 five year reunion, I started the ten year and we 0:22:06.440 --> 0:22:08.720 started a ten year so I went to that one. Okay, 0:22:08.800 --> 0:22:11.400 I'm fascinated with history. I got my degree in history. 0:22:11.680 --> 0:22:16.080