WEBVTT - Episode 28: Fit for Golf (Feat. Mike Carroll) 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:02.400 The guys from paying They've kind of showed me how 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:03.880 much the equipment matters. 0:00:04.160 --> 0:00:06.000 I just love that I can hit any shot I 0:00:06.080 --> 0:00:06.600 kind of want. 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:08.520 We're gonna be able to tell some fun stories about 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:10.640 what goes on here to help golfers play better golf. 0:00:11.320 --> 0:00:13.880 Welcome back to the Pink Proving Grounds Podcast. I am 0:00:13.920 --> 0:00:16.680 Shane Bay and join us always by Marty Jerts, and 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:19.360 we've got an exciting guest today. Marty, a guy that 0:00:19.560 --> 0:00:23.639 has spent his life dedicated to fitness and improvement in 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:26.439 terms of golf. Mike, we got a lot of questions 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:29.120 for you today, so hope you're prepared. Mike, Carol, Marty 0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:30.120 a buddy of yours. 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:32.960 Yeah, Mike and I go back a little ways. Is 0:00:33.040 --> 0:00:35.360 it kind of helped me along my own personal journey 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:38.720 to get as Mike's brand is fit for golf, so 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:40.800 to speak, but I think more importantly get fit for 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:42.440 life and look forward to chat and Mike. 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:45.599 Yeah, thanks very much for inviting me. Guys, I'm excited 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:46.120 to chat. 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:48.919 Mike. How did you get into this world? How did 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:54.480 you get into the improvement world of people's not just health, 0:00:54.480 --> 0:00:56.560 as Marty said, but kind of life improvement. 0:00:57.040 --> 0:01:00.920 And I was always very interested in health and fitness 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:04.440 growing up like very kind of sporty and active household. 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:09.560 And I studied sports and exercise science in university in Ireland, 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:15.000 and when that was finished, my kind of thing that 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:19.720 I went into basically was personal training and strength and conditioning. 0:01:19.920 --> 0:01:22.920 So for anyone who doesn't know, strength and conditioning is 0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:26.640 basically the same thing as personal training, except rather than 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:30.520 trying to help the general population, you know, get you know, 0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:33.480 maybe a little bit leaner and in better general shape, 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:36.479 strength and conditioning is how you can help athletes improve 0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:41.280 their physical conditioning for particular sport. So I have a 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:45.720 background in bolt which is definitely helpful, and after a 0:01:45.760 --> 0:01:48.720 while just decided that I'd try and pursue it down 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:53.520 the Gulf Avenue because it was pretty interesting, pretty niche, 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:57.280 and it wasn't really i guess, being done from what 0:01:57.320 --> 0:02:01.080 I could see to a particularly high level, and just 0:02:01.160 --> 0:02:03.320 sort of kind of gathered momentum from there. 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:06.440 Basically, Mike, were you a golfer. I mean, I know, 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:09.239 on your own personal journey, it's been fun to watch 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:12.880 you quote unquote kind of chasing scratch so to speak, 0:02:13.080 --> 0:02:15.440 in your own personal golf game. But you talked about 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:19.080 that moment you decided to pursue it in golf. Were 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:21.920 you an avid golfer at that time or kind of 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:24.760 casual golfer and then on this journey you kind of 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:27.800 transition to being more avid, more serious about your own game. 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:30.840 Yeah. So when I decided to try and go down 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:33.760 let's say the strength and conditioning root for golf as 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:37.680 a coach, it was actually after I'd had a spell 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:41.520 where I played a reasonably serious amount of golf as 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:45.600 a teenager, but kind of my last year of we 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:47.600 call it secondary school in Ireland, it will be high 0:02:47.600 --> 0:02:50.519 school here, I actually stopped playing golf kind of out 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:54.320 of frustration more than anything else. But I was also 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:57.480 playing a lot of other sports, so I concentrated on 0:02:57.480 --> 0:03:01.360 one of them in particular, called Gaelic football through my 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:04.880 last year in high school, and I played it through 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:08.000 college a little bit with the college, but more with 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:10.920 kind of my home club. And then when I finished 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:14.480 my studies, I started playing golf again. I was now 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:17.280 working full time and you know, didn't have say, studies 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:19.680 taking up my time, so I started playing a little 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:22.120 bit of golf again after about a five year break, 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:24.720 and what was kind of really cool is that even 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:28.000 though I hadn't been playing golf at all, I'd been 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:31.320 training really hard in the gym, Like I put on 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:34.440 about twenty five or thirty pounds in college through strength training, 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:38.040 And as soon as I got back playing, it was, 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:40.720 you know, really noticeable, like how much more speed and 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:43.360 power was there even though I hadn't really been trying. 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:48.120 And then when I started working with basically more people, 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:52.320 some of them just happened to be recreational golfers, and 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:55.120 I started thinking this is something that I'd like to 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:58.360 sort of push a bit more. And then kind of 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:00.960 the I guess the big turning point there was really 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:04.400 two of them. In twenty fourteen, I did the TPI 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:09.560 Level one education course. I traveled to the Belfry in England, 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:13.840 actually with Simon Keealen, whose shamous power is Caddy. He's 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:16.400 a friend of mine home And when I came back 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:19.120 from that, that's when I set up the brand name 0:04:19.160 --> 0:04:24.240 Fit for Golf, started marketing basically training services for golfers, 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:27.400 and about a year and a half later I moved 0:04:27.560 --> 0:04:31.080 to California to take up a job with Mike Hanson, 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:36.280 who owns a facility called Hanson fitness for golf in Irvine, California, 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:41.839 And funnily enough, it was on Twitter where I saw 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:46.360 he listed a job that TPI retweeted for him, and 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:48.360 I got in touch with him and told him I'd 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:52.400 be interested in Long story short, In October of twenty sixteen, 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:56.120 I moved over to California from Cork in Ireland and 0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:57.320 started working for him. 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:01.200 Mike, we as golfers to get to the winter months. 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:03.960 I know Marty doesn't deal with this in Arizona. I 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:06.320 miss those days for goodness sakes, but you know I 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:09.560 live in Connecticut. I mean, we are narrowing down the 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:11.719 last few days of a golf season, if at all, 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:14.560 and then you focus on kind of doing things indoors. 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:17.520 What's the number one thing you feel like golfers maybe 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:21.200 miss or don't focus on in terms of their fitness 0:05:21.440 --> 0:05:23.720 that you feel like is the most important thing golfers 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:26.120 should spend their time on when they're trying to maybe 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:29.080 get better or maybe improve their overall well being. 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:33.160 It's funny, so because my background is obviously saying physical 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:35.920 training and more, making gym programs and things like that, 0:05:36.000 --> 0:05:38.320 people are always assuming I'm going to tell them, like 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:40.680 some exercises like you know, squats. 0:05:40.279 --> 0:05:42.280 Or push ups or whatever, do one hundred crunch, but 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:43.200 you'll be dialed right. 0:05:43.279 --> 0:05:46.520 But I think, honestly, I think where people kind of 0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:49.479 missed the boat the most in the winter months is 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:55.279 going months without swinging a club. Because all fitness is very, 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:58.559 very specific to the demands of the activity you're doing. 0:05:59.240 --> 0:06:03.920 So if you go months without swinging a club, you're 0:06:03.960 --> 0:06:08.520 going to be getting deconditioned to that specific activity or stress. 0:06:09.080 --> 0:06:10.880 So then when you come back out as the weather 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:14.280 gets a bit better, which is typically Master's weekend for 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:17.880 most people, you could have five or six months or 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:20.720 whatever of not swinging a club. So even if you've 0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:24.640 stayed in generally good shape from you know, whatever type 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:28.320 of workouts you've been doing, it's not the same. You'll 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:30.320 be in a much better state than if you hadn't 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:32.600 been doing anything. But that would be my big thing 0:06:32.640 --> 0:06:35.640 to people is try and find some way to keep 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:38.440 swinging the club, even a couple of times per week. 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:42.200 I know that's challenging in certain locations where you know 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:45.400 there's snow on the ground outside or whatever, but even 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:49.560 if it means a shortened club inside, or even if 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:52.640 you need to maybe simulate it, you know, holding basically 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:55.440 anything like a light medicine ball or like I have 0:06:56.480 --> 0:06:59.000 a cut down you know, really old club that I've 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:01.000 brought with me traveling a couple of times if I 0:07:01.040 --> 0:07:02.920 know I'm not going to be you know, on a 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:06.120 range or playing golf. And it definitely, definitely is the 0:07:06.200 --> 0:07:06.920 number one thing. 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:09.440 I would say, Mike when you talk about timing, I 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:13.440 mean you mentioned speed right, and speed and players improving 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:15.560 club head speed and be able to hit the ball 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:17.800 at longer distances. I mean, it's a big thing in golf, 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:21.360 but I'd say it's a relatively new age thinking. I mean, 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:23.360 you know, I mean you think about what you're doing, 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:25.680 you think about what Marty has done so well with 0:07:25.720 --> 0:07:27.440 the stack system. I mean a lot of this stuff 0:07:27.520 --> 0:07:30.520 kind of coming together at the right time makes a 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:32.760 lot of sense for somebody like you in this business 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:35.440 because I think twenty years ago, if you'd have been 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:38.400 floating around some ideas of you need to swing it faster, 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:41.920 you would have got instructors coming around going no, no, no, no, no, 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:43.520 you got to hit fairways, you got to get the 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:46.360 ball in play. Those are the important aspects of golf, 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:47.920 and it feels like that's changed a bit. 0:07:48.560 --> 0:07:51.440 Yeah, when I think the person off. It's funny when 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:53.800 someone asks you what I do for work and I'm 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:56.840 explaining it to them, often they'd say, like, it's Tiger, 0:07:57.040 --> 0:07:59.960 you have to thank for that, And to a certain extent, 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:02.200 I would say, yes, who actually think I have to 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:06.000 thank more is Mark Brody because he's the one who 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:10.560 was able to put like numerical value on gaining distance. 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:16.080 And once that came out these analytics, there was no more, 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:19.920 you know, really debate about the value of it. And 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:23.679 I think before that it was really easy for people 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:26.040 just to have strong opinions and they could, you know, 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:28.400 bring up examples of well this player doesn't hit it 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:32.800 long and x. But once you know, doctor Brody was 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:37.040 able to put numerical value. And then also when the 0:08:37.040 --> 0:08:39.720 PGA Tour got shot link, so now we have like 0:08:40.240 --> 0:08:44.560 ball speed metrics, distance metrics, strokes gained off the team. 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:47.760 Well that's really when things you know, you now you 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:51.760 can give like objective feedback to players. Hey, look at 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:54.560 these guys' ball speeds, look at their earnings. Look at 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:57.760 these guys ball speeds, look at their earnings. And when 0:08:57.800 --> 0:09:02.640 you can almost like show a player. Hey, this is 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:05.920 like potentially what x amount of ball speed is worth 0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:09.840 in dollars per year. That obviously gets people interested. 0:09:09.400 --> 0:09:12.920 You know, yeah, Shane, I think that's Mike brings up 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:15.000 a really good point now that we can just put 0:09:15.040 --> 0:09:19.120 those numbers at YE decisions here. So like in our 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:21.600 Pink in Pink co pilot we do that on club fitting, 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:25.000 we could try longer driver relative to more traditional length. 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:27.920 We can use that club compare and apply those strokes 0:09:27.920 --> 0:09:30.640 gained metrics with a lot of nuance. It allows you 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:33.120 to get right into the nuance of what's more important 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:36.240 distance accuracy. Mike, I wanted to ask you about your 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:38.040 work with a couple. You work with a couple of 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:43.400 our our tour players Mackenzie who Seamous Power, Stephan Yager. 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:47.400 How do you approach those three players in creating their 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:50.760 individual training programs? And what are some of the different 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:54.520 priorities that you've you've placed with the three of them. 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:57.640 Is it kind of a you know, core strength, is 0:09:57.679 --> 0:10:02.600 it speed improvement, injury prevention, injury recover, recovery, maybe a 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:05.040 mix of all three. How have you tackled those three 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:06.000 individual players? 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:08.640 Yeah, so it depends a little bit on what the 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:12.480 player asks you when they get in touch, because essentially 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:14.960 you're serving them. So you know, even though saying my 0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:19.480 area of particular interest is speed, if some if a 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:22.600 PGA TORP player contacts me and says, hey, look, I'm happy. 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:25.440 I'm pretty happy with my speed, but if I play 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:29.320 three or four weeks in a row, the right side 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:31.520 of my lower back starts giving me trouble. Like what's 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:35.760 going on here? That's a slightly different, let's say job 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:39.480 essentially to someone who says, Mike, I'm not one seventy 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:42.120 I need to get to one seventy six or I 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:44.319 can't get to where I want in the world rankings, Yeah, 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:48.480 there's usually a little bit of overlap, like with those 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:51.600 three guys. With McKenzie, it was pretty straightforward in that 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:54.800 he didn't have any injury concerns. He had a pretty 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:57.920 good understanding and background and training, but he felt he 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:00.560 wasn't getting as much out of his training as he should. 0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:02.520 He wanted to make sure that the effort he was 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:06.000 putting in to his physical training was going to show 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:10.679 up in speed potential. With Seamus, he is a guy 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:16.120 who had a lot of speed. He contacted me really 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:18.880 because he felt like he was possibly doing too much 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:23.160 training and it was starting to interfere with how much 0:11:23.320 --> 0:11:26.160 energy he had for practice and play. It's something that 0:11:26.200 --> 0:11:28.080 you need to be careful with as a trainer because 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:30.880 you want to feel like that what you're doing is 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:34.640 making a difference, and it's easier for you to demonstrate 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:39.080 that with improvements in physical training metrics. But if it's 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:43.280 not enhancing the player's scale or their scores, like you're 0:11:43.320 --> 0:11:45.880 in trouble. You know, the training needs to stay as 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:50.000 a supplement to their golf practice and play. It can't 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:53.840 take over. And Steven was actually probably the most interesting 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:58.720 one because when I started working with him, he was 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:01.720 two hundred and ten in strokes gained off the team. 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:05.800 He was losing a full stroke around and he probably 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:09.560 won't mind me saying it, but on our first phone call, 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:13.679 I can remember him saying to me, Mike, I'm short 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:17.520 and crooked, which is no good out here. He said, 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:20.200 I might as well try and hit it further and 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:24.840 if I stay crooked, it's better. But Marty, is you 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:26.680 kind of you know? I think would be in agreement 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:29.320 with And I've noticed with players of different skill levels 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:33.959 oftentimes when players are short and crooked. There's a lot 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:37.800 of constraining going on. There's maybe some mental baggage where 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:40.400 players are. You know, if it starts going sideways, we 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:42.920 can start to rein it back in because we're worried 0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:45.400 about where it's going. And it's almost like a vicious 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:48.200 cycle because it can get worse the more and more 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:50.960 kind of scared you get. So his big thing was like, 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:53.040 I want to try and get faster and how do 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:55.760 I do this? So what was interesting with Steven is 0:12:55.800 --> 0:13:00.360 that I would say that the let's say Jim side 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:04.439 of things that we did was way less important than 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:09.720 just the practice he did with driver, focusing on essentially 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:13.080 getting into the mindset of I'm not holding back and 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:17.400 I'm going to hit it further. And like we talked 0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:20.600 about the value of metrics, like if you're practicing with 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:25.000 the launch monitor and you're getting feedback on literally every 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:27.800 single drive in terms of strokes gained from your rounds 0:13:28.559 --> 0:13:31.080 very quickly, you can see how the trends are going. 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:34.880 And what's been amazing with him And this wouldn't happen 0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:39.600 with every case for sure, but he's about one point 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:43.160 one strokes per round better off the tee since we 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:46.800 started working together and he's he's gained about five miles 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:50.240 an hour in ball speed and he's actually hitting slightly 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:53.520 more fairwis And as I said, it wouldn't happen with everybody, 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:56.600 but it was literally a case of let's start swinging 0:13:56.640 --> 0:14:00.880 faster because I'm already crooked. And I think it was 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:04.280 because there was you know, some probably like mental baggage 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:06.679 maybe when things aren't going well. Then as he started 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:10.720 swinging faster, started hitting it straighter, then a confidence goes up. 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:13.800 You start swinging harder again because you're like, man, this 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:16.560 is awesome. And that was a big turnaround for him. 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:21.280 And then with McKenzie and Seamus, like gaines haven't been 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:24.560 as sudden and as big, which is more what you'd 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:28.440 expect because Stevens example was you know, pretty kind of 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:31.200 I would say exceptional in terms of how quickly it 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:34.040 went up. With McKenzie, what's been interesting is we've had 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:38.520 some kind of like valleys and lows where there's been 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:41.160 periods where the speed has been going really good and 0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:44.280 then it might come back down. And that's where it's 0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:47.160 a little bit say tough as a trainer, because you 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:50.320 don't want to be overstepping bounds in terms of like 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:52.720 what type of input you're giving because you're kind of 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:57.440 getting away from the physical training realm. But what you're 0:14:57.520 --> 0:14:59.320 kind of trying to make sure of I guess is 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:03.360 are they in the place physically where they want to be. 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:07.480 And the two big ones there are that they're comfortable 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:12.120 with where there, let's say speed is, and also that 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:15.480 they have plenty of energy to practice and play and 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:19.840 they're not dealing with aches and pains. And that's probably 0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:22.280 the most I would say stressful or challenging part of 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:26.000 the job is if players are picking up aches and 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:29.480 pains and injuries. That's almost it's part and parcel of 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:32.920 pro golf because they practice and play so much. But 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:35.600 that's when you feel like that you might be failing 0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:38.680 at your job. Like if I'd much prefer for one 0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:40.880 of the players to say, Mike, my speed is down 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:42.600 three miles an hour, what's going on? Like are you 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:45.600 sure this is the right training program for me? That's fine, 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:48.280 Like you'll be able to kind of tweak things there, 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:50.600 have a discussion through it. But if one of the 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:53.880 players is telling me, like hey, like man, my shoulder 0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:57.640 or my hip is sore, like I can't practice. You know, 0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:01.040 that's when you feel like, okay, this is this is 0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:04.400 not where we want to be. Let let's review here, Mike. 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:07.680 It's so much information to process on your end. I mean, 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:09.520 you get a player coming your way and they're saying, 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:12.240 I want to improve X, Y and Z, or I 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:14.920 want to change my workout, or I'm not sure why 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:17.280 my back's hurting. I mean it feels like, as you're 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:20.200 discussing this, it feels like you're the trainer, but you're 0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:22.640 also a bit of a doctor, and at times you 0:16:22.680 --> 0:16:24.600 might be a psychiatrist. I mean, this is a lot 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:26.760 of things that you're having to kind of deal with 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:29.200 when you're kind of taken on a high level athlete 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:33.080 like this to figure out the perfect setup for that person, 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:36.680 because not every setup, not every plan, you know, not 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:38.760 everything you're writing out is going to be the same 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:39.720 player to player. 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:42.240 Yeah, it's a really good point, and I think it's 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:47.440 where there's actually room for maybe even top level golfers 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:52.560 to get better. No, obviously I don't have insight into 0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:55.320 on all of the top guys are doing, but you know, 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:59.000 I've had maybe like four or so years experience of 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:02.120 kind of being honor around the PGA Tour with with 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:05.399 players and you know, talking to caddies and managers and 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:08.240 coaches or whatever. And something that I kind of brought 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:10.920 up a couple of times is that, like, let's say, 0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:13.919 if you come out of college as an exceptionally good 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:16.879 baseball or basketball or football player, and you sign a 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:21.040 professional contract with whatever franchise, like you're brought into the 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:25.560 ecosystem of that franchise where like somebody's job is going 0:17:25.600 --> 0:17:29.560 to be let's say, high performance manager, where they're monitoring like, Okay, 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:33.480 what's Shane doing like this week in terms of on 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:38.000 field practice, gym practice. Is he going sitting down with 0:17:38.040 --> 0:17:41.399 the sports psychologists or whatever? You know? But if you 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:44.200 turn pro in golf and you get a PGA Tour card, 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:49.280 like there's there's no necessity or there's no let's say 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:52.360 set system that all these players follow. 0:17:52.520 --> 0:17:54.639 It's on them, Mike. I mean, it's on them to 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:56.840 to track it down. I mean, you're talking about like 0:17:57.160 --> 0:17:59.919 Victor woman Yama right now, who's obviously been kind of 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:04.200 the story of the NBA. There are I'm assuming employees 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:07.280 of the San Antonio Spurs that's job is to make 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:11.359 sure Victor is eating, working out, resting, flying, whatever the 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:14.920 case may be, properly and if you're Ludvig Aberg and 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:18.399 you turn professional, there's nobody that's just being assigned to 0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:21.120 You have to go track that down yourself exactly. 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:24.520 And where I think golf is probably in a maybe 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:26.679 a time where things are shifting a little bit, is 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:30.800 that like there's no question that you can now and 0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:34.280 definitely in the past be a world class tour level 0:18:34.320 --> 0:18:37.960 golfer without doing anything for your physical training, because we've 0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:42.000 seen that down through the generations. But as the sport 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:45.960 evolves and everything gets more professional, there's bigger money, there's 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:48.960 a bigger pool of athletes trying to make it. These 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:53.159 smaller margins make, you know, become much more important. So 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:56.960 kind of what I've noticed maybe that's lacking in even 0:18:57.000 --> 0:19:01.320 at the PGA tour level is almost just like organization 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:04.960 and management. For example, Like let's just say if a 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:08.080 player gets injured, it's like who is he going to 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:12.600 for advice? Like, like who's whose job is it to 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:15.160 make sure that like he's sent to let's just say, 0:19:15.200 --> 0:19:20.080 the right people for an examination and diagnosis, Because like 0:19:20.280 --> 0:19:24.000 an example is like there's a there's a physio truck 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:27.040 on the tour, right, So like these guys are great, 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:29.920 but like they're busy. They've got one hundred and fifty 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:33.359 six players in an event. And if Marty you go 0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:36.399 into them on a Tuesday and you're like, hey, you know, 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:39.800 tom My back is sore, they might be thinking like, 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:42.160 I've never met Marty before. I don't know if he's 0:19:42.200 --> 0:19:43.600 going to come back. All I know is that he 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:47.080 wants to tee it up on Thursday. Whereas if you have, 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:49.760 you know, a manager that you're reporting this to, and 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:52.800 their job is okay, like what are we going through 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:55.399 here to make sure all the right protocols are ticked? 0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:57.639 And I think you can apply that to basically, like 0:19:57.880 --> 0:20:01.159 every element of performance. If you get back to, like Shane, 0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:04.119 what you were saying about, you know, the NBA franchise 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:09.080 having these different departments where basically things are monitored and 0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:12.520 managed at a pretty big level. Because you need to remember, 0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:16.720 like these golfers are like the world's best at what 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:23.479 they do, and if something means even slight improvement, or 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:26.920 it means that an injury doesn't take quite as long 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:29.360 to recover from, or they're not out for quite as 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:32.719 long you know, that's more chance to say, playing events 0:20:32.720 --> 0:20:35.479 where you can build up FedEx points. And you know, 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:38.919 we know from watching a golf season how granular at 0:20:39.000 --> 0:20:41.280 the end of a year things can be in terms 0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:44.680 of different cutoffs for keeping cards or getting into particular events. 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:46.879 Yeah, definitely might. 0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:49.440 So to answer your question they're shaeing. What that probably 0:20:49.520 --> 0:20:52.399 means is like one of my jobs is when I 0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:57.159 get information from players, is sometimes telling them I'm not 0:20:57.200 --> 0:21:00.080 the guy to answer that question, like I don't know 0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:04.520 exactly why your backer risk is sore and what I suggested. 0:21:05.160 --> 0:21:07.160 You know, it's been dragging on for too long. Now 0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:09.959 you need to go and see a specialist in this area, 0:21:10.119 --> 0:21:13.320 like find out where in your city who the best 0:21:13.320 --> 0:21:15.720 guy to go to is, or I find out who 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:18.920 that person is and try and send them there basically, 0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:21.359 but that wouldn't happen if I was working for a 0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:24.200 basketball organization. You know, that would be all in house 0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:27.680 and taken care of. So I think that's where things might, 0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:30.359 you know, have room to improve over time. Mike. 0:21:30.400 --> 0:21:33.800 I think one thing fun about about your your journey 0:21:34.240 --> 0:21:37.800 is we've talked about your work with PGA Tour players, 0:21:37.800 --> 0:21:39.840