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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, it's Bruce.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for pulling up a chair for another episode of

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Speaker 2: Table for Two. Today we are not in a restaurant,

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Speaker 2: but at a beautiful farm, about to have a delicious

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Speaker 2: lunch of salmon and fresh vegetables. Oh oh my god,

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Speaker 2: I'm so happily nervous sitting here with you.

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Speaker 3: It's okay to chew for your podcast.

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Speaker 4: My guest today is a model, an actress, an animal behaviorist.

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Speaker 4: She's immensely beautiful, talented and bright. Her new film, Conclave,

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Speaker 4: is a powerful look into the election of a new pope.

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Speaker 2: My vegetables are amazing.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 2: We're having lunch with Isabella Rosolini. We're going to talk

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Speaker 2: about fashion, film and her legendary family. So pull up

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Speaker 2: a chair, grab a glass, Rose, and I really hope

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Speaker 2: you enjoy our conversation.

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Speaker 1: I'm Bruce Bossi and this is my podcast Table for two.

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Speaker 2: So if you've pulled up a chair, we are on

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Speaker 2: a farm. We are sitting with one of the most

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Speaker 2: accomplished women who has had an incredible career, who has

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Speaker 2: a movie that premiered last night called Conclave. A renowned,

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Speaker 2: incredibly beautiful woman known for your great beauty, which I'm

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Speaker 2: staring at Nesmas. We are having lunch today with Isabella Rossellini.

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Speaker 3: Thank II, thank you so much with this incredible introduction.

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Speaker 1: No, thank you. And you know your name is like

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Speaker 1: a song, it's beautiful.

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Speaker 2: Isabella Fiorella Eletra Giovanna Rossellini.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So in Italy the tradition, Catholic tradition conclaves film.

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Speaker 3: So I grew up Catholic. So in the Catholic tradition,

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Speaker 3: it's not your legal name, so it's not in my passport.

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Speaker 3: In my passport, I don't even have a middle name

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Speaker 3: because in Europe the middle names, so it's only Isabella Rossilini.

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Speaker 3: But the day of your baptism you give names, and

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Speaker 3: during the baptism, so you give the name of a

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Speaker 3: saint that you particularly like. And for me was Joan

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Speaker 3: Jovanna because Mama played Joan of Arc my mom Thean reversement,

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Speaker 3: so she wanted Joan. And then Fiorilla is the name

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Speaker 3: of my godmother, who is my cousin. Mama was very

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Speaker 3: close to her, Johanna. And Electra. Electra is the name

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Speaker 3: of my grandmother. So when when you baptize the child,

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Speaker 3: which is the kind of introducing it to life. You Also,

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Speaker 3: there is the tradition of linking them with the ancestor

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Speaker 3: the name of the indeed, my case, my cousin, but

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Speaker 3: it can be your best friend and then the saint.

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Speaker 1: That's it's a it's a beautiful it's a beautiful face.

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Speaker 2: In My family is half Northern Italian and half Southern.

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Speaker 2: So I was named Bruce after my father, Bernard after

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Speaker 2: my grandfather, whose name is Bruno. And I took on

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Speaker 2: my father's middle named Edward for my confirmation name.

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Speaker 1: So there's there's meaning.

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Speaker 3: But you don't have them in your passport.

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Speaker 1: No, No, I just have Bruce Bozzi.

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Speaker 3: You don't even have a middle name.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's Bernard, but I never really liked Bernard. It

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Speaker 2: was like it's just for some reason, so I went

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Speaker 2: by Bruce b period, I kind of shortened it. So,

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Speaker 2: I mean, your mother, obviously ing your father.

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Speaker 5: Berta Rusina, an incredible film director, did you sort of

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Speaker 5: have that sense of their who they were in, you know,

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Speaker 5: in the world and their significance in the world growing up?

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Speaker 3: Well not really. I mean when you're little, you don't

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Speaker 3: understand it. You know, you you think you know people

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Speaker 3: recognize him and recognize them, and I didn't know them

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Speaker 3: because they're parents. You know, I thought parents were important,

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Speaker 3: all parents would be recognized. Then little by little I

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Speaker 3: realized all the parents are recognized. My friends parents, they

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Speaker 3: didn't recognize. They had to introduce a house, you know,

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Speaker 3: so that you come to it slowly. Then I remember

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Speaker 3: that I would ask my friends when I said about

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Speaker 3: how famous is my mom? And I would ask my

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Speaker 3: friends at school, is she famous like John Crawford, like

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Speaker 3: Greta Garbo, give me a measure? You know. I was

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Speaker 3: using because I couldn't really gauge it, and so I

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Speaker 3: think it was only when you become a teenager. I

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Speaker 3: remember my father. I was very jealous Italian father, so

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Speaker 3: I wasn't allowed to go out, and there was a

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Speaker 3: retrospective of my parents. You know, because nowadays you can

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Speaker 3: watch on Netflix or Amazon or Criteria, which is my

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Speaker 3: absolute favorite too. Criterion you can access and see the

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Speaker 3: films of Para. I couldn't see my parents' film why

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Speaker 3: because they were you know, they had to come out

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Speaker 3: in the movie theater maybe film. They didn't come out

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Speaker 3: once in a while. You might see them on television,

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Speaker 3: but not with the frequency that a few years ago,

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Speaker 3: or they were retrospectives in museums. So I remember when

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Speaker 3: I was I think sixteen, there was a retrospective of

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Speaker 3: my father's film and I went and I was because

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Speaker 3: mother said, you know, you can't go out, et cetera.

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Speaker 3: I didn't tell him I was going to see his

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Speaker 3: film because I thought maybe he was going to scold

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Speaker 3: me because I was going out without telling him, And

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Speaker 3: so I went to see them in secret. And then

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Speaker 3: my father found out that I wasn't at home as

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Speaker 3: I told him I was, and he called me and yelled,

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Speaker 3: and where have you been? And with great fear, I said,

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Speaker 3: are you going to see your film? Said all this

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Speaker 3: week I went to see you film. His tears came

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Speaker 3: up to his eyes. Oh wow, he was so touched

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Speaker 3: and I don't know why. And then I just said,

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Speaker 3: of course he's happy that I want to see him.

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Speaker 3: But I didn't have the courage to tell him. And

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Speaker 3: maybe I thought he would say, oh, what do you care?

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Speaker 3: You know? Interested you they now you're going to see

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Speaker 3: because I'm a famous director. But I wanted to see

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Speaker 3: what he was doing.

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Speaker 2: And then you saw how meaningful it was for him

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Speaker 2: that you Oh, and what did you think when you

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Speaker 2: saw your father's films when you were young, like when

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Speaker 2: you walked out of the movie theater that first time.

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Speaker 3: Like I was very moved. I mean, he would always

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Speaker 3: say to me because his films, the most famous film

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Speaker 3: of his, were called neorealism because they look so real,

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Speaker 3: they look like documentaries, and so the critic called them neorealism,

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Speaker 3: and often they would talk about his style. He worked

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Speaker 3: with actor and an actor, he worked outside the studio

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Speaker 3: for the first time in real location. But there was

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Speaker 3: a style that looked completely new, And father said, but

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Speaker 3: it wasn't a style. I didn't think of his style.

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Speaker 3: It was an urgency that I felt to tell how

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Speaker 3: the civilian lived the war. It was a kind of

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Speaker 3: a moral impulse rather than a stylistic impulse. Although he

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Speaker 3: was often asked about his style. So I appreciated his

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Speaker 3: film because the spiritual moral dimension of his film is

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Speaker 3: what makes them so great.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And then when you saw when the question was

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Speaker 2: answered regarding your mother, who you know was one of

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Speaker 2: the biggest stories ever. When did you realize how you're like? Oh,

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Speaker 2: and the lines of Greta Garbo.

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Speaker 3: And my mom my mom had also when we were

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Speaker 3: a teenager, a retrospective of her work on television and

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Speaker 3: Italian television. So I was able to see Casa Blanca Notorious,

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Speaker 3: all the films that she did when I was I

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Speaker 3: wasn't in Betterlive. It was great, but I felt maybe

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Speaker 3: closer to my father's film because the war. I was

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Speaker 3: born in nineteen fifty two, so seven years after the war,

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Speaker 3: and the war was very present in my bringing, the

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Speaker 3: desperation of the war, So my father's film moved me

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Speaker 3: more than Casa Blanca. You know, Casa Blanca a reference

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Speaker 3: to the war. Everybody is so elegant, everybody so rich.

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Speaker 3: I was a little bit lost because what I'd known

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Speaker 3: about the war was very different from Casa Blanc Shore.

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Speaker 3: So I had to acquire the Hollywood culture of the

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Speaker 3: bigger than life, the dream, quite the entertainment quality, and

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Speaker 3: I appreciated, but immediately I was confused by ed. I said,

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Speaker 3: how can how can these be refugees and they go

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Speaker 3: like dressed like this at the rich cafe. It's impossible.

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Speaker 2: Did you have any idea that that would be a journey,

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Speaker 2: a path that you decided that you would go on

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Speaker 2: as far as acting.

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Speaker 3: And not really I thought I was going to make

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Speaker 3: films but not acting. When I was eighteen and finished

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Speaker 3: the school I went to for three years to Academia

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Speaker 3: and the Costume and Model which is a school that

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Speaker 3: teaches you to become a costume designer in fashion like

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Speaker 3: Parsons School of Designer in New York. And I graduated

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Speaker 3: thinking there would become a costume designer, and then instead

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Speaker 3: I became involved first as an assistant to a journalist

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Speaker 3: and I started to work with Roberto Benini the Life

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Speaker 3: is Beautiful, comical skit that for a few years, and

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Speaker 3: then immediately into fashion as a model. But that was

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Speaker 3: okay because it was my way into fashion, which is

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Speaker 3: something I loved. Fashion is contemporary costume, isn't it. So

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Speaker 3: it's kind of the word the same.

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Speaker 1: Yes, okay, So you.

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Speaker 2: Brought up coming to New York and fashion and you know,

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Speaker 2: and I know that you came to New York when

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Speaker 2: you were around nineteen, you know, period of your life

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Speaker 2: you started working as a model.

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Speaker 1: And you've really worked.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you are considered and are one of the

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Speaker 2: most beautiful women in the world, and so you worked

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Speaker 2: with like incredible photographer.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I worked with the best pographer, may be right,

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Speaker 5: what wasp.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Bruce Webber, Stephen Miselle.

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Speaker 1: What was that for you? That growing up? Because that's

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Speaker 1: very those are key years of growing up and understanding.

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Speaker 3: But they were, you know, they were very formative years

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Speaker 3: and made me fall in love with talent and your

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Speaker 3: originality of each mind of each photographer. Although we mostly

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Speaker 3: shot for fashion, you know, occasionally portrait for maple Thorp

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Speaker 3: or pen but otherwise mostly was fashion. But I combined.

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Speaker 3: I loved fashion, and so the combination of the two. Though.

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Speaker 3: So I came from a family a photographer. My grandfather

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Speaker 3: from my mother's side, but I never met him. He

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Speaker 3: was dead when I was born, was a photographer, and

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Speaker 3: my mother took lots of pictures all the time. My

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Speaker 3: father was a filmmaker. It didn't take photos, but of

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Speaker 3: course cinema is photos, you know, it's visual, right, So

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Speaker 3: there was a culture of a visual culture of an

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Speaker 3: art that I found out even when modeling, so I

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Speaker 3: loved it. I loved every second of modeling. I'd love

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Speaker 3: to say that sometimes I think I like modeling more

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Speaker 3: than acting, partially because it was easier to reconcile with

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Speaker 3: the family. Because if you're leaving for a photo shoot,

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Speaker 3: you might be gone for three or four days, then

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Speaker 3: you come home. You a film, you might leave for

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Speaker 3: three months, and that's much heavier on the family. So

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Speaker 3: modeling was easier and and like there was something very

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Speaker 3: light about it. Also there was light because we were

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Speaker 3: selling clothes or makeup or whatever it was. And in

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Speaker 3: films sometimes you have to play a dramatic role. You

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Speaker 3: have to go in thoughts that are dark. You recall

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Speaker 3: feelings that are unpleasant so you can portray them. But

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Speaker 3: I like acting too. But I have to say a

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Speaker 3: lot of people think of meddling as a lesser job,

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Speaker 3: but it isn't. I always thought it was really great.

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Speaker 2: Do you have there a photographer of all the grades

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Speaker 2: that you've worked with that you feel how captured you,

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Speaker 2: the essence of you?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 3: I mean this is the great thing is that when

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Speaker 3: you are you don't try to have you. I mean,

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Speaker 3: it's embarrassing when people say, let's do a portrait of you.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, it is so embarrassed. But you don't

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Speaker 3: know how to pose. You know, I don't know what

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Speaker 3: you know what take the photo? You know, Instead, when

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Speaker 3: you do a character it's easier and also what you're

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Speaker 3: trying to do is to find a common denominator. We

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Speaker 3: are all human beings. So whether I play a nun

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Speaker 3: or a whore, or an assassin or a mother trying

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Speaker 3: to find the common denominator. I don't do films or

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Speaker 3: I don't do photos to show myself or to find myself.

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Speaker 3: I do it to look at the commonality that we

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Speaker 3: have among all of us, so that people can relate

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Speaker 3: to the character you play.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, you were the face of line com

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Speaker 2: for many many years and then of course they released

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Speaker 2: you from your contractual obligations.

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Speaker 3: You got me back ag and then they got you back.

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Speaker 3: The story with lang Com is a big saga. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: so we were and the fact that they got me back. See,

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Speaker 3: length comb is not a political movement, it's a service.

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Speaker 3: So they really do what people demand and what they ask.

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Speaker 3: And I think that in the eighties there was a

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Speaker 3: real I think I have to say that maybe there

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Speaker 3: were many other reasons, but I think that men were

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Speaker 3: the executive of these cosmetic lines. Men was very much.

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Speaker 3: They understood makeup when it was done for them to

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Speaker 3: seduce them, and so they emphasize the art of seduction

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Speaker 3: through makeup of clothing. But once because society evolved, women

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Speaker 3: became the new CEO. They saw that seduction was one

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Speaker 3: of the reason. But there resultso creativity, self expression, playfulness,

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Speaker 3: and I think that the advertisement or the way they

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Speaker 3: present themselves nowadays, it is that way. And so they

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Speaker 3: call me back. They called me back also because it

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Speaker 3: was a sense of injustice, because it was extremely successful. Yes,

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Speaker 3: and at forty two, the executive at the time explained

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Speaker 3: to me that advertisement is about dreams, and women dream

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Speaker 3: to be young, and so at forty two I could

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Speaker 3: not anymore represent that dream. Where I was asked back,

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Speaker 3: I said, well, if it's a problem of ages, why

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Speaker 3: don't you get Ellen Mirron or Merrill Street, because if

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Speaker 3: you get me, we get the press again to take

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Speaker 3: that story. And you know, these big companies are very careful.

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Speaker 3: It's about not getting into any controversy. But they were

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Speaker 3: very ape. They say, no, we want to tell the story.

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Speaker 3: We want to tell the story of the evolution of

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Speaker 3: women in society. So since we did that, then now

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Speaker 3: we do this so you can tell and it's magical.

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Speaker 3: And I agree, I think it is magical and I'm

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Speaker 3: super happy to work. Did you notice my makeup?

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Speaker 1: I did notice your makeup.

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Speaker 3: Did you notice that I'm doing it differently? So I

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Speaker 3: always had very little makeup. I mean sometimes I'm a

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Speaker 3: makeup because I'm an actress, but yeah, in my everyday life,

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Speaker 3: generally I had I did very little makeup. Red lipstick,

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Speaker 3: a little bit of a concealer, sometimes not even mes garret,

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Speaker 3: just a red lipstick. And then I've noticed that when

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Speaker 3: I did my makeup to go out at night, I

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Speaker 3: did the makeup that philosophically was wrong. We did a

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Speaker 3: makeup to make me look younger. I would cover my blemishes,

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Speaker 3: I would do this, I will do that. And then

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Speaker 3: I saw one day a man using makeup, and the

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Speaker 3: man wasn't using makeup to look like a woman, to

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Speaker 3: look more men, or to look like a woman. He

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Speaker 3: used to make up as a creative color, as a touch.

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Speaker 3: And that I thought, oh, I want to do that.

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Speaker 3: That seems to be more modern. So now I change

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Speaker 3: my makeup and you know, do colors on top of

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Speaker 3: my eyelid lipstick. And I mean, I could do something

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Speaker 3: more complicated, but I wanted to do also makeup that

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Speaker 3: is very fast because I'm at the farm r You know,

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Speaker 3: every day you want to do something it takes five minutes.

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Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, I mean you look some experiment with this

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Speaker 1: new kilosophy. Philosophy.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes I said, the red carpets, you know, if I

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Speaker 3: had to be from imagine that I'm from Mars and

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Speaker 3: I come in and I read and I look at

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Speaker 3: the red carpet. I can be fascinated. But sometimes I think,

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Speaker 3: but you can feel like the principal world that is

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Speaker 3: conveyed is Thinness. Then a lot of the clothes are

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Speaker 3: very glued to the body. You're not naked, but you

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Speaker 3: could see every curve, or they make you that shape,

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Speaker 3: like the typical shape of a vase. Yes, well I

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Speaker 3: don't have that shape, and I'm seventy two. I'm not

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Speaker 3: going to have that shape. I had a backup eration,

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to wear a corset. I'm not going

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Speaker 3: to wear it, you know. So I want to stay

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Speaker 3: away from that because I can't do it. It's not

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Speaker 3: that I wouldn't liked it or I condemn it. I

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Speaker 3: can't do it, and I give it up. So I'm

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Speaker 3: trying a different version of elegance, and it isn't Thinness.

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Speaker 3: Look at my body, But.

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Speaker 2: Isn't that what's so great about now I hope and

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Speaker 2: I love that you're saying that because it's like lean

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Speaker 2: into who you are and what you feel comfortable in

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Speaker 2: and how you want to present because I feel like

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Speaker 2: on a given day when I wake up, or like

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Speaker 2: when you wake up.

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Speaker 1: And you're saying, like, how am I feeling today?

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Speaker 2: You say, okay, well, I how do I want to

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Speaker 2: express myself through clothes? Because when you put a piece

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Speaker 2: of clothing on, you feel a certain thing. When you

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Speaker 2: do your face, you know your hair, you feel like,

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Speaker 2: oh okay, yeah.

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Speaker 3: It's the same way you say hello, how are you?

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Speaker 3: When you write shake with perhems, you present yourself so

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Speaker 3: your clothest presentation of yourself or how you want to

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Speaker 3: be perceived. That's a pleasure of being in Paris. Everybody

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Speaker 3: is so dressed up, so dressed up, so pretty. I

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Speaker 3: mean America, if it was this martian martian that arrived

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Speaker 3: from another planet, I would say that in America. But

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Speaker 3: you really want to spell is comfort? So you use

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Speaker 3: your gym clothes to walk in the street, which isn't

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Speaker 3: very appealing, no, but comfort is appealing, so you know,

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Speaker 3: and if you think of Calvin Klein, comfort, the simplicity

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Speaker 3: of his line. It was comfort only that he dressed

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Speaker 3: it made it dressy. That's what I like so much

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Speaker 3: about American fashion. I think of American fashion, it's three

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Speaker 3: big names, Calvin Crime, Rap Lauren and Donna Karen. And Rep.

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Speaker 3: Lauren was all the historical references the English, but with

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Speaker 3: an ease, you know, the I mean the gentlemen, farmers.

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Speaker 3: So but there was these references to to a Europe

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Speaker 3: that has come to America and made the clothes more comfortable,

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Speaker 3: you know, not so stiff. Calvin Klein for me was

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Speaker 3: really Jim clothes made ellen, but they spelled easiness. And

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Speaker 3: then Donna Karen. I have to say it was the

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Speaker 3: first woman that tried to give women, the business woman

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Speaker 3: a uniform like men have the blazer or the jacket.

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Speaker 3: And it was very helpful to have her because I remember,

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Speaker 3: I mean I belonged to the generation that started to

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Speaker 3: work and have careers. And we worked, or women always worked,

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Speaker 3: but I mean that was the push in. You know,

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Speaker 3: my generation always said, well I get married then you know,

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Speaker 3: sometimes you don't get married. Sometimes the husband needs that

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Speaker 3: extra So we ended up working. But it wasn't we

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Speaker 3: weren't recognized as we are nowadays. I think nowadays, my

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Speaker 3: children never doubt it. I'm going to get married. Nobody

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Speaker 3: ever said that. I say, we get married, but we work.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't stop. Like you and Donna.

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Speaker 3: Really tried to dress so women in a way that

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Speaker 3: again was comfortable, by elegant, just feminine, and so comfort

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Speaker 3: is important to American because they're very active.

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Speaker 1: I also think sort of ARMANI did something that I

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Speaker 1: thought was very very.

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Speaker 3: Money did it too because their money. I think we

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Speaker 3: need it first for men and then for women too.

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Speaker 3: But the first thing he did was to relax the

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Speaker 3: men's suit, the business suits, and all of a sudden

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Speaker 3: men could go to work but didn't look like.

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Speaker 1: So uptight exactly.

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Speaker 3: They felt elegant and at ease. And the fabric and

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Speaker 3: the colors. Yesterday I just saw an Instagram a photo

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Speaker 3: of his latest collection and was him quite all the

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Speaker 3: very very elegant as gentlemen like that is with all

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Speaker 3: the models, and I was not wasn't looking at the

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Speaker 3: clothing because it was a group photos, so you couldn't

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Speaker 3: really see the clothes, but the palette of color. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I thought, well, you know how elegant it all goes together,

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Speaker 3: very well, thought out.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us on Table for two.

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Speaker 2: Our guest is the Bella Russellini has had an amazing

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Speaker 2: career in print and screen. She has never been afraid

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Speaker 2: to take risk, and I wanted to know what it

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Speaker 2: was like to work on two of her most progressive

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Speaker 2: and controversial projects at the time, Madonna's coffee table book

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Speaker 2: Sex and David Lynch's film Blue Velvet. I think, Isabella,

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Speaker 2: you've you've chosen projects, and you've gotten involved in things

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Speaker 2: that are not always mainstream, but like very creative, very

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Speaker 2: you know the way you are able to express your

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Speaker 2: so and one of the things that you did at

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Speaker 2: a time that was somewhat controversial was the whole Madonna erotica,

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Speaker 2: the Sex Book. And I can remember seeing the Sex

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Speaker 2: Book in the early nineties in a bookstore and buying it.

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Speaker 2: That sort of blew up in her face, and even

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Speaker 2: the album and of course in time again sort of

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Speaker 2: like with langcom in a weird way, that album goes

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Speaker 2: down as one of her best albums, and the book

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Speaker 2: goes down as being a pioneer.

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Speaker 3: What brought you to that? It was really interesting. So

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Speaker 3: it was Stephen Marzelle, photographer, and Stephen was just getting

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Speaker 3: to be more and more successful, and they were offered

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Speaker 3: to him to do books and mostly the retrospective books,

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Speaker 3: you know, and he didn't want to do retrospective books.

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Speaker 3: He felt like, I'm still young, what do you mean

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Speaker 3: retrospective book? But then Madonna wanted to do a book

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Speaker 3: and I think about sex, and that appealed to him

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Speaker 3: because it was I show, you know, to do a book,

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Speaker 3: which is very prestigious, of course with Madonna, but it

401
00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:58,520
Speaker 3: was prestigious for a photographer and a fashion photographer because

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Speaker 3: you have to think that a lot of fashion photogographer

403
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,840
Speaker 3: suffered from the fact that they are not considered artistic. True,

404
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,520
Speaker 3: you know, the artistic photographer is the world photographer or

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Speaker 3: the one they do some abstract, dumb but not the

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Speaker 3: fashion photographer, which is the fashion that is most popular

407
00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:15,119
Speaker 3: and loved, were seeing as commercial. So that was a

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00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:19,119
Speaker 3: little thorn in their heart. So that was the opportunity

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Speaker 3: to whichould do a book. The book will elevate you

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Speaker 3: from fashion photographer to a possible artist. And then and

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Speaker 3: I thought it was very interesting the subject of sex,

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Speaker 3: because sex can be horrible, the most tedious crime, and

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Speaker 3: it can be the most tender and loving things, yet

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Speaker 3: it can be the same act. It's amazing true. And

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Speaker 3: I knew Steven. I didn't know Madonna. We went to dinner,

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Speaker 3: and of course she's fascinating, you know, and also such

417
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:51,440
Speaker 3: an independent mind and such an you know, an artist

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00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,159
Speaker 3: for you know, making our own paths. But I had

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Speaker 3: done Blue Velvet, Yes, and it was so and I thought,

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Speaker 3: I thought that it was important to do that scene naked,

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Speaker 3: because this is a woman who runs out of probably

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Speaker 3: a rape or something very violent, and she walks completely naked,

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Speaker 3: bruised in the street.

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Speaker 2: So if I'm quite a powerful movie, if you pull

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Speaker 2: its David Lynch's movie, it's really.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very powerful. But when it now, it's completely accepted.

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Speaker 3: But at the time, when you came out, it was

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Speaker 3: very controversial because also of my nude scene, which I

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Speaker 3: thought were essentially in the film. So I thought, I

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Speaker 3: forget about that. I'm not going to do a nudity

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Speaker 3: So I said, you know, I'm very interested in the

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Speaker 3: subject of sex and the thing that you know, Madonna

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00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 3: she had girlfriend, she had boyfriend, she you know, that

434
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 3: was very interesting. Was one of the first one to

435
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 3: declare this, and she was experiment and but I said,

436
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 3: if I don't want to be nude, they accepted it.

437
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,400
Speaker 3: So if you see the photo, I'm always somewhat covered,

438
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 3: and the photo there is a It was only me,

439
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 3: Naomi and Tatiana. There weren't that many other people. We

440
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 3: were hand picked, and I I felt, you know, I

441
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 3: felt it was interesting when I saw the book, though,

442
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,879
Speaker 3: incredibly enough, I found it kind of moralistic, if I

443
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 3: can use an absurd word for that book, because it

444
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:13,920
Speaker 3: was a little bit like showing us what to do.

445
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 3: It had a little bit of teaching thing, like I

446
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,879
Speaker 3: tell you I am liberated and you are not. And

447
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,479
Speaker 3: that bothered me. And I did speak to her and

448
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,120
Speaker 3: I said, you know, also when you're naked or you're

449
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 3: making love, there is an incredible feeling of vulnerability. That's

450
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 3: what's so great. You can open up and that's the

451
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 3: one thing you haven't captured. It's all about having a

452
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,640
Speaker 3: perfect body. And she exercised a lot, and she had

453
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:43,239
Speaker 3: a perfect body. But it wasn't that. I said to her,

454
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 3: you know, if you photographed an athlete naked, it's a

455
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,400
Speaker 3: completely different reaction that you would have if you see

456
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 3: a businessman or your grandfather naked. And that was I

457
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 3: think the part that it was missing is the standardness

458
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 3: in that. On the other hand, it's liberating. You know,

459
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:02,160
Speaker 3: a matrix would hide that she was a liberating because

460
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,200
Speaker 3: maybe if she had children at home, all of a

461
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 3: sudden by seeing the photo she said, well, you know,

462
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,880
Speaker 3: at least somebody is talking about it, right, I didn't

463
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 3: feel that Lonely Madonna was a phenomenon at the time. Yep,

464
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 3: she still is. Yes, it's an interesting person. You know.

465
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,879
Speaker 3: Part of the great pleasure of being a model or

466
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,920
Speaker 3: an actress is to work with different talents. Now we

467
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,920
Speaker 3: work with so many, and it's so interesting to enter

468
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 3: into their mind and try to understand one they want

469
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 3: to express. And sometimes it works, sometimes it's accepted by

470
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 3: the audience. Sometimes it isn't. But you never really know

471
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 3: what's going to be successful. So you can't go that

472
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 3: way say I do this because you're going to be successful,

473
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,200
Speaker 3: because you don't know, and you might as well follow

474
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 3: your Yeah, you might as well follow your curiosity. And

475
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,399
Speaker 3: if from Banana Madonna says you would like to do

476
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,199
Speaker 3: work with me, how can you say, no, I'm interested.

477
00:25:52,200 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 3: A major talent, you'd say.

478
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 2: Recently, you know, I watched it again in an anticipation

479
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 2: of sitting watching Blue Velvet and the character that you

480
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 2: that you bring to life on the screen is just fascinating.

481
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,719
Speaker 3: You know, it's very interesting to work with David because

482
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 3: he works not on rationale, you know, not on things

483
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 3: that he totally understands. I remember one day he told

484
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 3: me something and I thought, oh, it's all right, and

485
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,679
Speaker 3: that's the key to understanding. He said, you know, you

486
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 3: enter into a room a party immediately, you know, if

487
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 3: there's tension or if there is immediately, how is that?

488
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 3: How that mood? How do you capture that mood? So

489
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 3: that's what he's trying to do with this film is

490
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,400
Speaker 3: to capture the mood. Is not to capture you enter

491
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,439
Speaker 3: a room the restension because there's been a fight between

492
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 3: the husband and the wife. No, he's not interested on that.

493
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,640
Speaker 3: He's interested and still there is something lingering and electricity

494
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 3: that he's trying to capture, and so working with him

495
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,360
Speaker 3: was very interesting. And when we work together in Blue Velvet,

496
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 3: he told me a story that when he was a

497
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 3: little boy, he was returning from school with his brother

498
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 3: and they saw a woman naked walking down the street

499
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,199
Speaker 3: and they didn't laugh or they didn't get excited. They

500
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 3: started to cry because they knew something very tragic had happened,

501
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 3: and they scared them, and he wanted to capture that.

502
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 3: And so I thought of that nick Out photo, the

503
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 3: nick Out photo of the little girl in Vietnam that

504
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 3: was and I thought, this is such a helpless gesture.

505
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 3: And when he was telling me the story, I imagine

506
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,439
Speaker 3: that moment, walking naked like this, when if I had

507
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 3: walked covering myself up, I wouldn't have been totally broken.

508
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 3: I would still have a feeling of shame or a feeling, God,

509
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 3: I'm naked, I'm so sorry. I should you know, no

510
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 3: like this is you are at the edge of death.

511
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 3: I was familiar with the Stockholm syndrome. In Italy. We

512
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:03,919
Speaker 3: had years of terrorism in the late seventies and a

513
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 3: lot of people were kidnapped. And when you people that

514
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 3: were kidnapped often came back home sympathizing with the kidnappers,

515
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,719
Speaker 3: you know, as it happened with Patricia Hurst. And so

516
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,440
Speaker 3: I imagined a little bit my character Door as the valance

517
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 3: to be so crazy because she was an unpredictable because

518
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 3: she was having Stockholm syndrome. Yeah, they didn't, you know,

519
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 3: the actors. Sometimes I didn't want to know anything psychological.

520
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:29,719
Speaker 1: They get bored.

521
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 3: But we actors, we have to agorate to something. We

522
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 3: have to have a kind of psychological story. We can't

523
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 3: just place erratic stange. Why what is the emotion she feels?

524
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 3: Because you're trying to emotion. So I create stories behind

525
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 3: my characters. But the director sometimes I'm not interested in that.

526
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: Was that like major pivotal life changing?

527
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 3: Yes, I think it was pivotal, but not right away.

528
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 3: Because it came out it was so controversial. So it

529
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 3: was hard at the beginning, especially for me, because people

530
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 3: that liked the film they loved. Of course it's an

531
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 3: author's film, so they praised David Lynch, and people they

532
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 3: didn't like the film thought I did it to contest

533
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 3: my mother or contest myself because I was known as

534
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 3: a mo beautiful model, or as adbotaged myself. They put

535
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 3: so much psychological, complicated things that didn't exist, but they

536
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 3: were trying to find a reason why the film wasn't convincing.

537
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 3: So I thought that every time we got a bad review,

538
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 3: somehow we're putting the finger. At least if there was

539
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 3: a good review that was always praising David a minute.

540
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: Welcome back to table for two.

541
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 4: Isabella Russellini is not only a model and an actress,

542
00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 4: but also an animal behaviorist.

543
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 1: She's created several productions.

544
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 2: That deal with animal sexuality, including the short film series

545
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 2: Green Porno.

546
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 1: That's right, Green Porno.

547
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 2: How did this unexpected chapter in her story come into being?

548
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 2: What is so cool about you? Is amongst many things.

549
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 2: As we sit on your farm and you're raising animals

550
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 2: and I get to get a tour after lunch, I'm

551
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 2: super excited. Is you know when you decided I'm going

552
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 2: to go back to school. You went back to school,

553
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 2: and you sort of and you've been always sort of

554
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 2: fascinated with bugs, and then green porn came about, which

555
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 2: is so fascinating.

556
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: So what brought you to go back to study?

557
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 3: I think I wish I had studied. I wish I'd

558
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 3: done it earlier. If anything, I think I always wanted

559
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 3: to be a director, a film director. I went to

560
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 3: a nine rate story. I feel like I'm a narrator.

561
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 3: I can tell story, yeah, but I didn't know how

562
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 3: to get there, you know, I didn't know how do

563
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 3: you start? Where do you go? And then when my

564
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 3: father turned it would have been one hundred years old.

565
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 3: I knew that he was going to be retrospective of

566
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 3: his work and people were going to talk about him,

567
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 3: and I wanted to say something that was very personal

568
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 3: to me about my dad how I experienced him in

569
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 3: his work. And at the time I was working with

570
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 3: a director called Guy Madden, who had door is a

571
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 3: very kind of avant garde crazy filmmaker from Winnipeg, and

572
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 3: he does often film in black and white and look

573
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 3: all ruined as if they were found in some sort

574
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 3: of archive, but there are new films that he does,

575
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 3: and I thought his aesthetic would lend itself very well

576
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 3: from my film, so I asked Guy to I wrote

577
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 3: the script and then that guy directed it and we

578
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 3: put it together. The film and he was called My

579
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 3: Dad Is one hundred years Old, a twenty minutes film,

580
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 3: and Robert Radford saw the film, liked it and bought

581
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 3: it for sand Dance. And at the time he was

582
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 3: also very enthusiastic about YouTube that had just started because

583
00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 3: he's a big fan of silent film, and silent film

584
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 3: at a lot of short films, and then the film

585
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 3: as became an industry, became standardized, so it's half an

586
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 3: hour for television or hour and a half for cinema,

587
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 3: but more or less, you cannot come out of this.

588
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 3: And films that were two minutes long, five minutes long,

589
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 3: six minutes long disappeared, but YouTube started them again, and

590
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 3: so he thought, oh, we can do film series short

591
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 3: film series, and so he reached out to several artists

592
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 3: that were in his you know, periopheral vision or vision,

593
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 3: and one of them was me. And at first I thought, oh,

594
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 3: that's strange, and then I said, oh, I can do

595
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 3: a close up with me. If I were a bug,

596
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 3: transform myself into a bug. I will make that way,

597
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 3: and so I did. We did a pilot. It worked

598
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 3: very well. We ended up doing forty short film and

599
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 3: I combined, if you want, my costume designing that I

600
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 3: started when I was my acting and my love for animals.

601
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 3: Once I became old, that worked less as an actress

602
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 3: as a model. And that's when I went back to

603
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 3: school at a university and took a master agree on mythology,

604
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 3: which is animal behavior and conservation. Okay. I then started

605
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 3: to lose his films. It's it can't help. I always

606
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 3: tell story.

607
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 2: But it's amazing because you know, it's also like when

608
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 2: you say I became old, it's so interesting to hear

609
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 2: because that's not an easy thing for any of.

610
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 1: Us to say when I became old.

611
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 2: Like you really have to because we live in this world.

612
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 2: And then when people feel and that's happened to me

613
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 2: in my life, Oh, I'm you know, I'm forty and

614
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 2: I'm too old to do something you know or like.

615
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 1: And then next thing, you know, I'm going to be

616
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 1: fifty nine this year. It's like, well, okay, well that

617
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 1: was nineteen years of past, you know, so much like

618
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: we were never too old.

619
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, never, no, you know. I mean it's

620
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 3: funny because I know we have this big number. I'm

621
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 3: having two's this big number accompanying me. But I'm stupefied

622
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 3: because inside you always feel the same. You haven't really changed, right.

623
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 3: And also we don't see I don't see myself right.

624
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 3: I see my hands, I say what's wrong spots, you know,

625
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 3: but I don't see my face. And I'm always kind

626
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 3: of shocked, you know, when I see myself in films.

627
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 3: I at first sometimes I said, what's wrong with the light,

628
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 3: And I said, no, it's not the light.

629
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 2: What Let me tell you the face I'm looking at

630
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 2: right now is spectacular, I might add, so last night

631
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 2: your movie premiered. Yeah, tell me about that movie. It's

632
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 2: a very intense movie. I mean, the whole transition when

633
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 2: a pope passes and then the sort of the process

634
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,800
Speaker 2: that goes on, and also the sort of complexities of

635
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 2: the Catholic.

636
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 1: Church and the whole thing. You know, talk to me

637
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 1: about why did the movie and how you.

638
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:50,720
Speaker 3: So the conclave is is the election of a new pope.

639
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:55,319
Speaker 3: When the pope dies, one hundred and twenty cardinals go

640
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 3: into a conclave, which mean they are secluded in the

641
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,760
Speaker 3: Vatican and they take the meeting in the Sistin Chapel

642
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 3: with all the fresco of Michael Avangelo. And then they

643
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 3: also sleep in Casa Santa Marta, which is a kind

644
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 3: of a hotel if you want, but dorms, very very little, severe,

645
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 3: little cell and they cannot communicate with the world outside

646
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,320
Speaker 3: until they elect the pope. And so the film is

647
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 3: about that. And of course the cardinals are humans, so

648
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 3: although they're trying to be spiritual leaders, they have all

649
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,480
Speaker 3: the faults of the human being. There is ambitions, there

650
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 3: is lies, there is abuse. There's also sainthood. There's also

651
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,720
Speaker 3: moral dilemma. There is all of it. There is also

652
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:43,279
Speaker 3: political facts, exactly like we have it in our politics.

653
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 3: They are progressive and more conservative, and there is these

654
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 3: fights among them, all fights argument. But it's so well written,

655
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,479
Speaker 3: and it was a book originally and then translated into

656
00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 3: a marvelous script. Words were so beautiful. As an actor,

657
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:05,319
Speaker 3: to say those lines was such a pleasure. And in

658
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 3: the conclave there is one cardinal that was not known

659
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 3: to the others. He had been elected. The Pope elects

660
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 3: to them and he has been elected impactory meaning inside

661
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 3: as a secret because he was serving in Baghdad and Kabul,

662
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,359
Speaker 3: and so he has a paper to show that the

663
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,840
Speaker 3: Pope has elected him, but they kept it secretly to

664
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 3: protect him. And in dis debate he is the most

665
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:39,880
Speaker 3: humble and the kindest, the most attentive, the most christ like,

666
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 3: if you want. He doesn't have a political agenda, he

667
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 3: doesn't seem driven by a personal ambition, and little by

668
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 3: little he's elected the Pope. Yes, but the film ends,

669
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 3: I wouldn't. I'm terribly sorry to say the ending, because

670
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 3: the ending is such a it really is. But the

671
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 3: film to me is an orday about doubt, and at

672
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 3: the beginning of the film refines it places to Dean

673
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 3: is in charge of Dean pop dies in charge of

674
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 3: the conclaim. So he has this bureaucratical responsibility and he's

675
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 3: very plagued by it because he maybe wants more of

676
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 3: a monastic life of meditation and prayer, and instead, with

677
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 3: the death of the pope, now he's thrown into this

678
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 3: brawl of policy and investigating people and lives, and he's

679
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 3: suffering in the center of all of this, and he

680
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 3: has to manage it. And it gives a wonderful speech

681
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 3: at a certain point talking about certitude as being evil

682
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 3: and doubt being equality. So because he says in doubter

683
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,359
Speaker 3: is mystery, and if there was no mystery, there will

684
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 3: be no faith. So we have and I hope that

685
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 3: the pope will be elect that will be humble enough

686
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 3: to recognize that we're trying our best, but there is

687
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 3: always a doubt. So this is humbleness in the things

688
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 3: that the church takes. Stands saying women should not be

689
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 3: priested or should not get married, nor men gays are condemned,

690
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 3: and that maybe there is a doubt to me in

691
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:25,840
Speaker 3: real life. The most moving moment of the spoke Francis

692
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 3: is when he was asked about gay people, and he said,

693
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 3: who am I to judge? The church traditionally condemns gay people.

694
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 3: But on the other hand, they might be the doubt

695
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 3: that the church is wrong. We're trying, they are trying

696
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 3: to bring the Word of God, and in the Bible

697
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,439
Speaker 3: it says, go and reproduce. Therefore you can't be gay

698
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:50,719
Speaker 3: because you can't reproduce. But maybe maybe that's an interpretation.

699
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 3: I find that so moving, and the film is the

700
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 3: celebration of that. So when the finally the pope is

701
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 3: the most christ Like, the most kind, so humble person

702
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 3: is elected, there is the final doubt. And I have

703
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 3: to say we had the most wonderful actors, you know,

704
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,320
Speaker 3: Stanley Tuccio and Lithgo. But to me, I have to

705
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 3: say Santo Casillito, who is a very known actor in

706
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 3: Italy but not known in America, and he plays the

707
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 3: most conservative, but he plays him with such an energy

708
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 3: he smokes. You would think he would be the most

709
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 3: liberal because he smokes, he sis, you know, and instead

710
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 3: he is the most conservative. And I thought that Ce

711
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:37,800
Speaker 3: did an incredible, incredible It surprises me. I was yesterday.

712
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 3: I saw the film again and I was waiting.

713
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 6: And had such pleasure at looking at him.

714
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,320
Speaker 1: What is sister Agnes, You are the only woman.

715
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm the only woman.

716
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 2: I think you do something that's very difficult to do,

717
00:39:56,840 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 2: which is your eyes tell many no words in many things.

718
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 3: Edward Berger is a superior filmmaker, the director, and he

719
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 3: has used everything from the way photographed the film, the

720
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,720
Speaker 3: way he edited, the way the music is. The music

721
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 3: is extraordinary. But also he underlines this very big difference

722
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 3: between men and women in the Catholic Church because it's

723
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,879
Speaker 3: a patriarchal society. So nuns are there all the time,

724
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 3: but they don't speak, they don't say anything. So I

725
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 3: loved to have a role that I could play and

726
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 3: can create a whole person. Avoid Maybe because I was

727
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 3: a model, avid On did say to me, models are

728
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 3: a silent movie star. I don't say anything, and then

729
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 3: when I speak, bomb is like a bomb, and I

730
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:48,880
Speaker 3: speak very little, and yet you always know where she is.

731
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 3: So I think I'm going to say something quite extraordinary.

732
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 3: When I was little, I went to school and I

733
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 3: went to nuns school, and my nun of course they

734
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 3: have take the vowel of being submissive and submitted to

735
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:09,319
Speaker 3: the patriarchal society. But they were not. They didn't lack authority.

736
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 3: They had great authority. Even if they didn't speak, they

737
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,719
Speaker 3: looked down they were, but they always had great authority.

738
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,360
Speaker 3: So I'd witnessed that. When I went to school with

739
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 3: the nuns, I asked them, one of them that I

740
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 3: particularly liked, if family was happy when she decided to

741
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:29,280
Speaker 3: be a nun. She said, absolutely not. My mother dreamed

742
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 3: to become a grandmother, and of course in the Catholic Church,

743
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 3: we can't get married. So she cried and cried and said,

744
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:36,920
Speaker 3: won't you go to Mass every day and be religious,

745
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:39,840
Speaker 3: but get married and make me a grandmother. But it

746
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 3: was a calling. I had to do it. I didn't

747
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 3: want to hurt my family. It was a calling. It

748
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 3: was a calling. It was exactly the same word my

749
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 3: mama used when she talked about acting, and she was

750
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:54,840
Speaker 3: accused of being neglectful toward us, and we had four children,

751
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 3: and what you were to work? She said, I can't

752
00:41:56,680 --> 00:42:00,200
Speaker 3: help it. I haven't chosen acting. Acting chose me. And

753
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 3: when my mom came to school conferences, the NaNs and

754
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 3: Mamma spoke as these kind of women that were following

755
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 3: their passion, that were completely independent. I've seen submissiveness more

756
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 3: in my aunt, in some of the mothers of my

757
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 3: friends in school, but I've never seen it in the NaNs.

758
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 3: And in my mom was a very big emancipated moment

759
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:24,280
Speaker 3: from Scandinavia that helped but also a better, huge career,

760
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 3: and so I tried to play her that way instead

761
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 3: of being you know, submissive and quoi full of modesty.

762
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 3: She doesn't speak, but she has enormous authority.

763
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 1: It's an incredible film. Yes, it is really is an

764
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:48,440
Speaker 1: incredible film.

765
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 2: And it's I think again it's a film that's of

766
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 2: the moment with everything that's going on.

767
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 3: Yes, I don't think it was written for the moment

768
00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:01,080
Speaker 3: in our controversy. Of course, I'm the controversy. See the

769
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 3: political controversy and tension and the world being so you know,

770
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 3: extreme and conservative and progressive. It's something that is not

771
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 3: only in America, but it's all over the world and

772
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 3: including Catholic Church surse. It came from a book, and

773
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 3: the book was written five years ago, so way before

774
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 3: this election. But yes, its very much many many residents

775
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:24,360
Speaker 3: to our political situation.

776
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:27,960
Speaker 2: I just don't think there's no coincidences. So like this book,

777
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 2: I think Landcomb and then coming back where the world

778
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 2: over the last twenty years shifted its perspective.

779
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 1: The story of.

780
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 2: Your mother and her career and the moment that you know,

781
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:40,799
Speaker 2: she was held accountable for something that today that would

782
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 2: not have happened.

783
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, so my mom was held accountable. So my mom

784
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 3: was Swedish and she came to America while Europe was

785
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:52,359
Speaker 3: in the war, and she became this famous movie star.

786
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:56,759
Speaker 3: And Mama was very drawn to cinema, As I said,

787
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 3: it was a calling. And she saw two of my

788
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:01,279
Speaker 3: father's film and wrote to him saying, I would like

789
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 3: to work with you, and it would be like Julia

790
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 3: Roberts trying to nowadays to a Syria and director. You know,

791
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:10,280
Speaker 3: because Mama Italy was right after the war destroyed country.

792
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 3: Also we were allied of Hitler, you know, we were

793
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:16,280
Speaker 3: in the right side, so we were very much looked down.

794
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 3: And when they met, they fell in love. A mother,

795
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 3: before she could obtain a divorce, became pregnant from my father,

796
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 3: and this created a very big scandal in the United States,

797
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:30,240
Speaker 3: and not being a citizen, she was not allowed back,

798
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:34,359
Speaker 3: and you sent it, took a stand against my mom,

799
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,320
Speaker 3: and it was very painful. Not only all the money

800
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 3: she made was confiscated, and because she had a daughter here,

801
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 3: so the money went to her. It was okay for Mama,

802
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:45,840
Speaker 3: but she couldn't see her daughter, and that was very painful.

803
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 3: And it remained for Mama. Now. Then eight years later

804
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 3: they saw each other, they loved each other and all that.

805
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 3: But that period was really difficult.

806
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 1: Of course, I can imagine.

807
00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 3: And that's why I'm an accent. People say, well, do

808
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:01,239
Speaker 3: you have an accent? An accent because I was born

809
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 3: right during the scandal. Mama could not come to America.

810
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 3: I did not learn English, because you know, you have

811
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:10,759
Speaker 3: to learn languages when you're very young in order not

812
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 3: to have an accent. I learned, yes, because our vocal

813
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 3: see here is the scientist talking. The vocal chords is

814
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:21,240
Speaker 3: a very complex instrument. It is made of tiny bones

815
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 3: and ligaments and cartilages, and they are very soft and

816
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 3: at a certain point, when you are about thirteen or fourteen,

817
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 3: you become more rigid. So if you haven't shaped them,

818
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,240
Speaker 3: the little bone to vibrate and make the perfect r

819
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:37,799
Speaker 3: or the perfect te that I can't say. I say

820
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 3: this that it's very difficult, and you can't. You don't

821
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 3: have any more. So any languages that is learned after

822
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 3: fourteen fifteen, you will always remain with that accent because

823
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 3: it's now the organ is shaped in a way that

824
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:55,799
Speaker 3: you cannot correct. And that's why I learned English at

825
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:56,879
Speaker 3: nineteen too late.

826
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 2: You learn because you're from wrong. Well, thank you, Thank you,

827
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 2: Isabella Roussalini. I can't say your name enough because it's

828
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:07,799
Speaker 2: beautiful to me and it's a pleasure to be here

829
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 2: with you. And congratulations on your movie. And you're off

830
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:14,240
Speaker 2: and on the road again. You are just in the world.

831
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 2: We should all be so good luck with that.

832
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:26,799
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, Thank you for pulling up a chair.

833
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:31,400
Speaker 4: I love our lunches and never forget the romance of

834
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 4: a meal. If you enjoy the show, please tell a

835
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:38,720
Speaker 4: friend and rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. Table

836
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 4: for Two with Bruce Bosi is produced by iHeartRadio seven

837
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:45,760
Speaker 4: three seven Park and Airmail. Our executive producers are Bruce

838
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:47,279
Speaker 4: Bosi and Nathan King.

839
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:51,920
Speaker 2: Our supervising producer is Dylan Fagan. Our editors are Vincent

840
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:55,880
Speaker 2: to Johnny and Cas b bias. Table for two is

841
00:46:55,960 --> 00:47:00,560
Speaker 2: researched and written by Jack Sullivan. Our sound engineers Our Meal, B. Klein,

842
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 2: Jess Krainich, Evan Taylor, and Jesse Funn. Our music supervisor

843
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:08,840
Speaker 2: is Randall. Poster Our talent booking is done by Jane Sarkin.

844
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 2: Table for two Social media manager is Gracie Wiener. Special

845
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 2: thanks to Amy Sugarman, Unie Scherer, Kevin Yuvane, Bobby Bauer,

846
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 2: Alison Kanter Graber. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the

847
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:27,359
Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your

848
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:29,360
Speaker 2: favorite shows.