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Speaker 1: Wow, that is quite a story. And the FBI is

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Speaker 1: still looking for you. Huh yeah, it's like you are

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Speaker 1: right there right now. Oh good time. Oh my goodness.

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Speaker 1: I didn't notice you all come in. I was just

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Speaker 1: chatting with my friend. Paul left Tompkins. Paul get carried away.

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Speaker 1: The audience is here. What oh hi guys, how are

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Speaker 1: you all doing. I hope UM treated you well. This

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Speaker 1: is Behind the Bastards, a podcast about the worst people

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Speaker 1: in all of history and today, Paul, I thought I

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Speaker 1: might have you on along with all of our friends

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Speaker 1: here to talk about. How do you let me? Let

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Speaker 1: me start with the simple question, Paul, how do you

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Speaker 1: feel about Nazis? I gotta say, and I hope this

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Speaker 1: is not uncool. But not a fan, not a fan,

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Speaker 1: not a fan of Nazis. Okay, now, answillary question, Paul.

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Speaker 1: Do you diss like either chocolate or peanut butter but

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Speaker 1: like Reese's peanut buttercups. I'm gonna say I like them

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Speaker 1: both individually and in the coke. Okay. Interesting? Is there

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Speaker 1: anything that in combination you like but alone you don't like? Um? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there are certain tastes like um orange or tomato. I

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Speaker 1: like them in different forms, but I don't like them

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Speaker 1: as their own thing. That's okay, So this is kind

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Speaker 1: of like that. Maybe maybe because we've got a Nazi, right,

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Speaker 1: don't like Nazis. But he's also a cult leader and

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Speaker 1: a torturer for the Chilean government and a pedophile. I

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Speaker 1: don't actually think you're gonna like all those things in combination.

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Speaker 1: Now that now that I read it out, let me

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Speaker 1: tell you something. If a pedophile was turning a corner

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Speaker 1: and ran into a torturer for the Chilean government and

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Speaker 1: they became the same thing, I wouldn't think it was

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Speaker 1: a great taste that that tastes that tasted better together

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Speaker 1: that mash up. If it's the If it's the pedophile

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Speaker 1: truck hitting the Chilean torturer truck hitting the SI truck,

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Speaker 1: that doesn't make a good mix. I would like to

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Speaker 1: see those trucks hit each other, though. I would be

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Speaker 1: fun to see those trucks hit each other. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: actually think I would enjoy seeing them collide, but not

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Speaker 1: not merge their skills. Anyway, this has been a tortured

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Speaker 1: way of introducing the tale of a guy named Paul Schaefer.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever heard of Paul Shaffer. I mean I've

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Speaker 1: heard of not not the Letterman guy. I have to say,

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Speaker 1: the Letterman guy. This might be the most unfortunate person

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Speaker 1: other than Hitler to share in name with a spelled

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Speaker 1: completely different. It's such an unfortunate thing when that happens. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's really not great. Um speaking as a Robert

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Speaker 1: Evans Uh, but by Robert Evans just made godfather. Um,

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Speaker 1: I mean probably had a couple of people tortured, right,

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Speaker 1: it was Hollywood and like the seventies. Emotionally for sure,

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Speaker 1: emotionally for certain. Yeah, I mean, didn't you work with Kubrick? Right? Like? Um? So.

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Speaker 1: On January four, and American mathematics professor named Boris wisse

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Speaker 1: Feiler was hiking in the Indian Foothills in Chile. Boris

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Speaker 1: was the son of a Jewish scientist who had been

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Speaker 1: forced to flee Nazi Germany in the nineteen thirties in

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Speaker 1: order to you know, not get murdered. His sister still

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Speaker 1: lived in the Soviet Union. Boris was an American citizen, though,

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Speaker 1: and that his disappearance that night would mark him out.

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Speaker 1: Is the only U. S citizen who was disappeared by

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Speaker 1: the regime of dictator Augusto Pinochet. So Boris wise Feiler. Now,

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Speaker 1: as best we can tell, a local that wise Feiler

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Speaker 1: met uh noticed that he was wearing an old backpack

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Speaker 1: that he'd taken with him from Russia that had cyrillic

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Speaker 1: letters on it, and he was dressed in khaki pants

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Speaker 1: and under Pinochet Communism not a not good, not not

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Speaker 1: big fans of communism. So this local sees he's got

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Speaker 1: cyrillic writing on his backpack, turns him into the state authorities,

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Speaker 1: who turned him over not to a government agency, but

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Speaker 1: to a group of German Nationals who lived in a

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Speaker 1: nearby cult compound and specialized in torture for the Pinochet

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Speaker 1: regime as well as making broad worst. Um Boris was

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Speaker 1: tortured horribly for an unknown period of time before being

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Speaker 1: shot in the head and dumped into a mass grave.

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Speaker 1: I shouldn't have had that right after the broad worst line.

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Speaker 1: Um broad worst is part of life, it is especially

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Speaker 1: for these guys. Exactly now, While Boris's father had succeeded

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Speaker 1: in escaping the Nazis, Boris was not so lucky because

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Speaker 1: the German Nationals who carried out his torture and execution

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Speaker 1: were led by a charismatic Nazi apocalypse preacher named Paul Shaffer.

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Speaker 1: It is entirely possible that when the time came, Paul

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Speaker 1: himself pulled the trigger. And that's that's our little introduction

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Speaker 1: to what we're talking about today. Are you Are you pumped? Paul?

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Speaker 1: My appetite has been quitted. It's like the mention of

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Speaker 1: Broadworst has done. I could go for the broad worst.

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Speaker 1: One thing that's fun about this week, Paul, is we're

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Speaker 1: talking about a bastard who shares your first name. And

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Speaker 1: the episode I'm writing this week is a bastard who

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Speaker 1: shares my first name. We're talking about. I'm writing an

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Speaker 1: episode about Robert Baden Powell of the Boy Scouts. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, the Boy Scouts have been up to some

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Speaker 1: fucked up ship when in the middle of a discussion

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Speaker 1: of Nazi pedophile tortures you mentioned them and go, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what a monster match for this Halloween season. Yeah tis

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Speaker 1: the season. Paul Paul Schaefer Schneider was born in the

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Speaker 1: town of Siegeberg on December four, nineteen one, or he

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Speaker 1: was born in Bonn. It's also possible he was born

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Speaker 1: in the small town of Troy Dorf near the Dutch

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Speaker 1: German border. I think all these towns are kind of

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Speaker 1: near each other, as you might get from the fact

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Speaker 1: that credible sources have all provided me with three different

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Speaker 1: birthplaces for the man. Um there's some mixed up facts

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Speaker 1: about his early life. You know, some some stuff happened

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Speaker 1: in Germany about twenty years after he was born that

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Speaker 1: made record keeping less than ideal in parts of the

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Speaker 1: country due to sale shall we say, spontaneous fires. Um So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he was born somewhere near that Dutch German border area.

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Speaker 1: We don't know a tremendous amount about his early life.

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Speaker 1: He seems to have been a very poor student and

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Speaker 1: quite clumsy. The reason we know this is because we

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Speaker 1: have one clear story from his childhood, and it's that

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Speaker 1: while he was a preteen, he was attempting to untie

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Speaker 1: his shoelaces with a fork. He's screwed up and he

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Speaker 1: gouged out his own right eye. I mean, the physics

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Speaker 1: of it, I know, right you're working through it in

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Speaker 1: your head right now, trying to figure out how you

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Speaker 1: do it. But if this was a sketch, how do

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Speaker 1: you even fake that Daddy had a rib removed? Usually

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Speaker 1: for another purpose. I mean that is wow, that's that's

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Speaker 1: an I'm I'm not a coordinated man, but that is

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Speaker 1: a fascinating act of discordination. It's it's the antithesis of Parkoo.

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Speaker 1: So when he was twelve, Adolf Hitler became Chancellor of Germany,

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Speaker 1: and since Paul was the sort of young man who

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Speaker 1: was dumb enough to gouge out his own eye while

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Speaker 1: untying his shoe, he really liked the Nazis. Big big

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Speaker 1: Hitler fan from an early age, probably tied to the

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Speaker 1: fact that he was not competent to untie his own

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Speaker 1: shoe without serious injury. In nineteen thirty nine, on the

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Speaker 1: eve of World War Two, Paul tried to join the

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Speaker 1: elite should Stuffle or s S. They rejected him because

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Speaker 1: he was missing an eye. Yeah, buddy, you're too dumb

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Speaker 1: for the s S. You can't. I mean, look, if

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Speaker 1: you're if you're talking about an elite force of the

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Speaker 1: master race, you can't have a one eyed guy in there. No, no,

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Speaker 1: unless he lost it in a cool way exactly. But

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Speaker 1: somebody's gonna ask. Eventually, somebody's gonna ask, and you're gonna say, well,

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Speaker 1: so you know how your shoes get really tight, you

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Speaker 1: know forks, those tricky bastards. Really, they're the Jews of

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Speaker 1: the silverware world. Oh, Nazis. So Paul was enthusiastic about

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Speaker 1: Nazism still, and he joined either the army or the

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Speaker 1: Air Force. I've heard different explanations of this too. I

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Speaker 1: think it's most likely he joined the Wehrmacht. Um because

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Speaker 1: he is so. He worked as a nurse. Some sources

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Speaker 1: will say medic I think they were kind of the

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Speaker 1: same basic gig at that time, in a field hospital

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Speaker 1: and occupied France throughout the war, which is one of

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Speaker 1: the better jobs you could have in the German army, right.

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Speaker 1: The nightmare is being sent east. Being stationed in France

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Speaker 1: is like, that's that's really where you want to be. Um.

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Speaker 1: He ended World War Two as a corporal without a

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Speaker 1: particularly exciting war experience. Corporals also the same rank Adolph

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Speaker 1: Hitler attained in World War One, which may have brought

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Speaker 1: Paul some comfort as he prepared to endure several horrible

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Speaker 1: years if everyone around him pretending they had not been

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Speaker 1: Nazis for a while, and awkward parties that must you know,

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Speaker 1: what did you get up to? Yeah, people are trying

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Speaker 1: to pin down times and day locations. Yeah, I was

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Speaker 1: at school, I think, yeah, yeah, because working on my degree,

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Speaker 1: I've been rebuilding a classic car. I've hot air balloon

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Speaker 1: trying to break a record around Seveld in sirteen years

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Speaker 1: or so, so Paul had not. Again, when the war ends,

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Speaker 1: we try to punish some of the Nazis. Paul's a

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Speaker 1: corporal who worked in a field hospital. Nobody's after this guy, right,

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Speaker 1: You'll hear people be like he was hiding from the Allies.

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Speaker 1: I don't think the Allies were looking for corporals who

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Speaker 1: worked in field hospitals like and I've never heard any

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Speaker 1: allegations he was involved in any war crimes, which I'm

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Speaker 1: not saying obviously to defend him. He would have absolutely

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Speaker 1: done a war crime if he could have. I don't

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Speaker 1: think the Nazis thought he was competent enough to do

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Speaker 1: war crimes. We gotta keep this guy away from the war.

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Speaker 1: Christ we got it working just so, whatever you do,

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Speaker 1: don't in here. This ship is a well oiled machine.

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Speaker 1: Don't let sport Gray do it. The gomer pile of

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Speaker 1: the third rite. So um yeah, he uh. He becomes

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Speaker 1: a Lutheran pastor, after the war and he's hired to

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Speaker 1: be a young people's leader at the Evangelical Free Church,

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Speaker 1: where he preached the gospel and told boys how good

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Speaker 1: it was to be abstinate. Now that's a red flag

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Speaker 1: to me. Some people are fine with that. I think

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Speaker 1: if you're an adult and you decide to make it

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Speaker 1: your job to tell teenage boys how bad sex is,

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Speaker 1: there might be something questionable about you. Yeah. I mean

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Speaker 1: it's like girl having grown up in religion. That's just

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Speaker 1: par for the course. It's like a part of everything.

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Speaker 1: But if you say I want to focus on that,

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Speaker 1: I think that you have to be a little concerned. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's there's probably something something up there, and there was

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Speaker 1: with Paul because not lock it and long into his gig,

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Speaker 1: people at the church started to suspect that he had

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Speaker 1: mistreated some of the boys in his care. And you

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Speaker 1: don't get more details on than that. In this instance,

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Speaker 1: we can guess what he was doing because of the

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Speaker 1: stuff that came out later, although just knowing the way, again,

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Speaker 1: this guy's a pedophile on an industrial scale. I don't

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Speaker 1: actually know if he'd started fully molesting them. It may

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Speaker 1: have been because people often take time to like build up.

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Speaker 1: He may have just been kind of like a little

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Speaker 1: bit like inappropriate touching and stuff. He may have like

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Speaker 1: not built up to that. At this point, we really

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Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, he's actually like if if like

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Speaker 1: they'll say something specific, if they can say a specific thing,

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Speaker 1: but it's too grim. That's when the the the euphemisms

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Speaker 1: come out. Yeah, exactly. Um, So we don't know how

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Speaker 1: bad it was at this stage, but the rumors about

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Speaker 1: him were vague enough that there were no criminal charges filed.

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Speaker 1: Although he was forced out of the Free Church. Now,

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Speaker 1: he had a lot of fans even at this point.

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Speaker 1: He's a very charismatic guy. Um, and so there were

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Speaker 1: a lot of adult that the Free Church who are

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Speaker 1: like really surprised that he gets fired and still really

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Speaker 1: liked him. One woman who knew him at the time

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Speaker 1: later told a documentarian quote after Schaefer was fired, he

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Speaker 1: lived for a while in the forest. He said he

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Speaker 1: had a direct encounter with Jesus there and that Jesus

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Speaker 1: had chosen him for a mission founding something like a

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Speaker 1: community of true Christians. So already, I mean, we've had

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Speaker 1: a few red flag being a Nazi red flag number one. Um,

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Speaker 1: I feel like, let's say I'm on the forest and

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Speaker 1: Jesus appears to me and says he's got a mission

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Speaker 1: for me. Let's say that back. I have to think

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Speaker 1: back on all the people who have said similar things

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Speaker 1: and how successful were those missions? Yeah? How good? How

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Speaker 1: how often do those missions not in this nightmares? Yeah? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: yeah yeah. Also, Jesus like had his mission mission accomplished. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then he was like, I'll come back when I'm ready,

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Speaker 1: when I'm done. He never said anything about and here

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Speaker 1: and there, we're gonna give you his assignments. I mean,

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Speaker 1: to be honest, what I respect about Jesus is the

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Speaker 1: same thing that I respected out the Amicus brothers, where

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Speaker 1: you do one great thing and you're like, you know what,

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Speaker 1: I don't need to do any more of these, Like

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Speaker 1: we I don't need to come back, we don't need

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Speaker 1: to reboot back to the future. We're good. We're good.

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Speaker 1: Like I don't need we don't need a second coming.

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Speaker 1: I got it right. Um, that's why we call Jesus

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Speaker 1: the Marty McFly of religion. Yes, if people were wondering,

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Speaker 1: If people were wondering. Um, So he goes into the woods.

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Speaker 1: God tells him to create a community of true Christian believers,

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Speaker 1: and so he becomes a roving Lutheran pastor, and he

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Speaker 1: spends the next several years traveling the countryside dressed in Liederhosen,

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Speaker 1: playing acoustic guitar and singing songs to kids about how

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Speaker 1: awesome abstinence is. A couple of flags there. I mean,

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Speaker 1: even back then, when a priest brings out the guitar,

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Speaker 1: this is such a drag. I don't know. I was

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Speaker 1: a kid. I didn't like the guitar mass. I like

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Speaker 1: the really old stuff. I like the old hymns. There's

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Speaker 1: gravity og yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah, tar mass is like

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Speaker 1: what do you I can get this somewhere else. What

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Speaker 1: do you here doing this for? Yeah? I don't need.

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Speaker 1: The only guitar based religious music I want is that

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Speaker 1: one Peter Paul and Mary Christmas Concert. Great album. Although,

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Speaker 1: speaking of people with troubling histories involving children, I was

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Speaker 1: not aware, but it was either Peter or Paul. Yeah, anyway, whatever,

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Speaker 1: we're really racking them up today. Yeah. So, I mean,

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Speaker 1: you've got a Nazi who gets kicked out of his

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Speaker 1: first church job from his treating boys and then decides

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Speaker 1: to form a community of true believers by wandering the

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Speaker 1: woods and playing acoustic guitar for children about how good

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Speaker 1: it is not to have sex already, also wearing tight

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Speaker 1: leather pants the whole time. More red flags than the

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Speaker 1: Communist Party rally at this point, like just just a

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Speaker 1: lot of them. Um. That said, this is also the

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Speaker 1: forties and fifties, people are not as suspicious about such

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Speaker 1: things like there's I think probably most people don't even

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Speaker 1: really understand that that's possible, that like a man could

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Speaker 1: do that to child, which is why a lot of

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Speaker 1: this is you know, able to happen. Um. Paul develops

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Speaker 1: a following, and at prayer meetings he would encourage his

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Speaker 1: listeners to come up and confess their sins. Over years

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Speaker 1: on the road, he honed his craft and he became

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Speaker 1: an exceptional public speaker. Skill augmented his natural charisma. And

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Speaker 1: it's hard to him as it is to imagine he

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Speaker 1: must have had natural charisma. There's a good documentary, it's

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Speaker 1: a German language documentary, but it's on Netflix called Colonia

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Speaker 1: that's about Paul Shaffer and everything we're talking about today.

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Speaker 1: There's some audio of him from this period. He sounds

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Speaker 1: like Hitler and I'm not saying that because like, oh,

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Speaker 1: all German men sound like he. I don't speak German.

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Speaker 1: I have listened to a lot of Hitler speeches with

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Speaker 1: the subtitles on the cadence of his voice is Hitlarian

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Speaker 1: and other Germans will say he spoke and I don't

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Speaker 1: even know if it was conscious. This is a kid

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Speaker 1: who grows up during Hitler's rise to power. That may

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Speaker 1: just have been how he internalized this is how you

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Speaker 1: speak to a crowd, you know. But he has that

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Speaker 1: kind of speaking skill and it has an effect on people.

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Speaker 1: He draws together hundreds of rededicated followers over the course

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Speaker 1: of a couple of years. Um. One follower who first

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Speaker 1: met him at a prayer meeting in nineteen fifty two

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Speaker 1: said that he was so charming that charisma radiated out

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Speaker 1: of his body like beams of light, and um, this

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Speaker 1: is what I But it's the same thing with like

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Speaker 1: any time I hear this about somebody, somebody who's who's

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Speaker 1: a leader of some kind of cult, whether it's a

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Speaker 1: religious called or Hitler or whatever, there's always this thing

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Speaker 1: where people say, like he just transfixed people. He was

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Speaker 1: just couldn't look away. And then you see this person,

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Speaker 1: You're like this dude, this guy, people, this motherfucker. Whenever

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Speaker 1: I see like, I can understand. I guess on some

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Speaker 1: level that like Hitler got people all worked up. He

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Speaker 1: tapped into the defeated aspect of the German people and

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Speaker 1: it was like, guess what, You're not defeated. We're the

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Speaker 1: greatest in the world. And I can see how he

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Speaker 1: could cast a spell on someone. But the it's the

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Speaker 1: charisma thing that always throws me. They never ever seem

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Speaker 1: charismatic when I see them. I think part of it

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Speaker 1: is because charisma is so dependent upon the audience right

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Speaker 1: there are. It's like with um, there's people who absolutely

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Speaker 1: love Beyonce. Obviously she's huge, a massive, massive, massive star.

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Speaker 1: Millions of people are are drawn to her. I don't.

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Speaker 1: I don't care one way or the other about her,

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Speaker 1: Like I'm not. That's not an insult. I just like

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Speaker 1: whatever charisma she has, it doesn't like do the thing

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Speaker 1: for me. Um. I am magnetically attracted to Pedro Pascal,

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Speaker 1: and I assume there are people in the world who

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Speaker 1: are not, although I can't get inside of that head.

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Speaker 1: Who would dare? Who would dare? The funniest thing about

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Speaker 1: about his charisma, Paul, The absolute funniest thing about his

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Speaker 1: charisma is that if you look at it again Colonia Dignidad,

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Speaker 1: this this documentary on on Netflix, if you look at

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Speaker 1: the early footage of him from like the fifties, when

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Speaker 1: he's still a youngish guy. Did you ever watch Star

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Speaker 1: Trek the Next Generate? Of course you watched Dart. He

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Speaker 1: looks like Barkley. He looks like Reginald Barkley's It's very

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Speaker 1: weird because again, hundreds of people followed this man into

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Speaker 1: an unthinkable situation and he looks like Barkley. What a world.

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Speaker 1: It just goes to show. It's just like it's it's

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Speaker 1: like Trump. There are people who find that man irresistible

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Speaker 1: and he looks like Donald Trump, like depictions of him.

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Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, as this, as this, like great Superman

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Speaker 1: are are always So It's it's chilling in a way

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Speaker 1: because it's like you are we looking at the same dude,

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Speaker 1: what is happening here? And it's that they have a

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Speaker 1: whole however many years they've been alive of life that

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Speaker 1: has built them into a person who finds this person charismatic.

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Speaker 1: That's the way you know that It's like I say,

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Speaker 1: I think there is a cult who could ensnare everyone.

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Speaker 1: I don't think anybody is impossible to be brought in

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Speaker 1: by a cult. I don't think it's unless maybe you've

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Speaker 1: already been in a cult and like you get that

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Speaker 1: kind of like PTSD. But I think every bloody could

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Speaker 1: at some point in their life be reached by some

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Speaker 1: coult out there. Um, it just depends. It's like a drug.

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Speaker 1: Anybody could become an addict to something. You know. Well,

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Speaker 1: I accept your cult challenge and we'll see about that,

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Speaker 1: all right, Paul. Are we having a cult off? Yeah? Okay,

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Speaker 1: you know meetings, this is this is what l Ron

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Speaker 1: Hubbard and Frank or Um, Robert Heinland did. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: we got both the Church of Scientology and the Libertarian

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Speaker 1: Party art of it. So I think this could go

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Speaker 1: really well. We'll do it good though. We'll do it

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Speaker 1: good though. We'll do it good. Yeah, I mean, we'll

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Speaker 1: do will be nice. Cults. I'm still gonna I'm still

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Speaker 1: gonna have twenty year olds build the navy for me

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Speaker 1: and search for gold in the Caribbeans. That's not negable.

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Speaker 1: That is non negotiable. A lot of teenagers searching for

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Speaker 1: gold for me. So after several years in the proverbial

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Speaker 1: and also sometimes literal wilderness, because I think he did

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Speaker 1: live in the woods sometimes, Paul Schaefer had gathered enough

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Speaker 1: followers and money because you know, again, part of the

359
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:06,640
Speaker 1: whole cult thing is you get a bunch of people together,

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Speaker 1: you have them pool their money so you can buy things.

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Speaker 1: They buy a compound um which they intend to turn

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Speaker 1: into an orphanage outside of a town called troy d

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Speaker 1: Orf for war widows and orphaned children. Now again, this

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Speaker 1: is the early fifties, mid fifties in Germany, a plot

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Speaker 1: of desperate ass people. Um So like as my family,

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Speaker 1: my grandpa was stationed in Germany like immediately after the war,

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Speaker 1: along with a bunch of his brothers. Um Our family

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Speaker 1: heirlooms are like we have a bunch of hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty year old antique, precious grandfather clocks that he bought

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Speaker 1: for like pennies because everybody was starving in Germany. And

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Speaker 1: it's one of those things where it's like, yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: that's that was the situation. There was nothing. So Paul

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Speaker 1: is opening the center is like, Okay, there's all these

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Speaker 1: these women whose whose entire families are gone. It's just

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Speaker 1: them and and kids, sometimes not even their kids, just

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Speaker 1: children they took from their destroy town or from this

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Speaker 1: apartment building that collapsed. They need a place to stay.

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Speaker 1: And that's on the surface, a very good thing to do, right, um.

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Speaker 1: And a lot of these people are also refugees from

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Speaker 1: from the East, people who when the Soviets occupy there's

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Speaker 1: this Again, never to equate Soviet with Nazi war crimes,

382
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Speaker 1: because there's no equating, but a couple of million German

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Speaker 1: women get raped during the occupation of of of Germany. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's a fucking nightmare. Um. So a lot of of

385
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Speaker 1: these women who like have kids as a result of

386
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Speaker 1: this and have no resources. And again, on the surface,

387
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Speaker 1: creating a place to take care of these people, to

388
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Speaker 1: educate their kids, to give them food, a leg up,

389
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Speaker 1: one of the best things you could possibly do. But

390
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Speaker 1: also if you're a predator, anyone who's going to need

391
00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:48,520
Speaker 1: that facility is going to be someone with almost no

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00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,639
Speaker 1: recourse to to deal with the fact that you're praying

393
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Speaker 1: on their children. Like it's both, you could say, one

394
00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:56,720
Speaker 1: of the best things you could do, and also, as

395
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Speaker 1: a pedophile, the best kind of situation you could create

396
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:03,040
Speaker 1: for your your self, and that's what Paul is doing. Um,

397
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 1: it's pretty bad, Paul. That's pretty bad. Um. And also

398
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:11,960
Speaker 1: this has never really talked about any of the coverage.

399
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,399
Speaker 1: I've seemed it has to have affected it. When you

400
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,440
Speaker 1: think about the women in that situation and what they

401
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,600
Speaker 1: had lived through during the war, I'm going to guess

402
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,359
Speaker 1: they're able to tolerate a lot more fucked up shipped

403
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,840
Speaker 1: from Paul, just because it's like, well, I lived through

404
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:30,040
Speaker 1: World War Two, Mike, your your your barometer for what

405
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,800
Speaker 1: is an unacceptable situation is just completely off forever. I

406
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,360
Speaker 1: think that's a big factor in this whole story. Um.

407
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,679
Speaker 1: So Paul offers these women and their families food security

408
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:43,199
Speaker 1: and stability, um. And the people who are not. So

409
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:45,119
Speaker 1: there's a mix of He's got these people who are

410
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Speaker 1: living in the orphanage because they have nothing, and all

411
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Speaker 1: of these people who live in the area around who

412
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:52,199
Speaker 1: are like middle class and they're funding all of this

413
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 1: because the tithed ten percent of their income to Paul. Um.

414
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 1: That's one of the requirements for being in his cult.

415
00:22:57,880 --> 00:22:59,920
Speaker 1: The others that you have to confess your sins day

416
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:02,560
Speaker 1: ideally to him. I think it's always to him at

417
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,359
Speaker 1: this stage. Yeah, they have these big meetings where everybody

418
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 1: talks about all the bad stuff they've done, which we

419
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,959
Speaker 1: talked about synanon last time. Paul. This is happening at

420
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 1: the same time, late fifties, early sixties. All of these

421
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:17,400
Speaker 1: different cults are doing scientology happening at the same time.

422
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,639
Speaker 1: Huge emphasis is kind of confessed. They don't call it

423
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,879
Speaker 1: confessing your sins, but that's the idea. It's fascinating to me.

424
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 1: It's the collateral thing. Yeah, I mean, it's like it

425
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,120
Speaker 1: makes sense, Like I get why having having a bunch

426
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 1: of ship on people that they have admitted to you

427
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 1: of their own free will, um, could be very handy um.

428
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 1: Later on. There's that. Here's the other thing I find interesting, Paul.

429
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:46,280
Speaker 1: All of the cults that do this all start late fifties,

430
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,240
Speaker 1: early sixties, and all of the people who become cult

431
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:52,120
Speaker 1: members are like the children and the people who came

432
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 1: out the other side of World War two. For whatever reason,

433
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,199
Speaker 1: this idea of like the center of our cult is

434
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,440
Speaker 1: going to be the confessing of sins is huge. Maybe

435
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 1: because there's no therapy and every but a lot of

436
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:05,639
Speaker 1: people in need of therapy because they have what. I

437
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,920
Speaker 1: think there's something there. I've never really seen it dealt

438
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 1: with enough, but it's such a common through line in

439
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 1: all of these cults, like the confession of sins that

440
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 1: start up in this period of time. Um, like the

441
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,119
Speaker 1: group confession of like things you've done that's bad. I

442
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,120
Speaker 1: don't know. I think there might be there's something. There's

443
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,920
Speaker 1: gotta be something there in Germans, in lot of sins

444
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 1: to confess, as as a population speaking of sins to confess,

445
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,959
Speaker 1: it's time for an adverb you know who never confesses

446
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 1: their sins advertisers, that is for sure. Yeah, or just

447
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:49,920
Speaker 1: capitalism and broad um. Actually, capitalism makes it very profitable

448
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,399
Speaker 1: to confess and discuss the sins of capitalism, which is

449
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 1: one of the great geniuses of the of the system. Anyway,

450
00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 1: I think about that while you listen to the ads,

451
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 1: we're back so um for a while. Things are good,

452
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 1: at least on the surface. You know, he's taken all

453
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 1: these women, these families in, He's got his flock. People

454
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 1: are tithing, confessing their sins. Um. Obviously, the reality is

455
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 1: that Paul is a pedophile and again a grand scale,

456
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 1: which is why he established an orphanage in the first place,

457
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 1: So he is molesting an unknown number but not certainly

458
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 1: on an insignificant number of these kids. In nineteen fifty nine,

459
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 1: one of the widows at his orphanage came forward to

460
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 1: the police and reported Paul for molesting her kids. A

461
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 1: warrant was issued for his arrest, and Schaefer fled to

462
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:48,159
Speaker 1: the Middle East with two trusted assistants. So he is

463
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 1: now a wanted man in Germany and will be for

464
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 1: the rest of his life. So he gets the funk

465
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 1: out of Germany never comes back. UM. It is important

466
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 1: to note that a lot of I don't have any

467
00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: I don't know what percentage of his flock stays with,

468
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 1: but hundreds of them do. UM. A couple of hundred people,

469
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 1: maybe three four hundred people. UM continue to believe that

470
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 1: he's a legitimate holy man, and that the allegations against

471
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,159
Speaker 1: him were I think part of a communist conspiracy. Is

472
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:16,400
Speaker 1: kind of the way it was generally like justified. UM.

473
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,679
Speaker 1: We don't know exactly how Schaefer talked to his flock

474
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 1: about all this stuff, but we have some hints and

475
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 1: how he explained this to them, And the fact that

476
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 1: by the late nineteen fifties, Paul had become a follower

477
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 1: of an American evangelical preacher named William Branham. Now this

478
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:34,360
Speaker 1: is gonna be a digression, Paul, but it's a it's

479
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: a necessary one. In the US digression. Thank you, thank you,

480
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 1: thank you. You said only one digression per episode and

481
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 1: threatened me with your cattle proud, but I appreciate your

482
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 1: your openness. I'm feeling generous to digressions today, thank you

483
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 1: so um. In the US, in the late forties and fifties,

484
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 1: there's this huge resurgence of evangelical Christianity again right after

485
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,119
Speaker 1: World War Two. This is all tied to the in

486
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 1: and on in the Confession. When all of this is

487
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 1: tied together, specifically, what what has a big surge is

488
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 1: the kind of charismatic evangelism that would have eventually evolve

489
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 1: into the moral majority and the religious right. This is

490
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 1: known historically as the post World War two Healing Revival.

491
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:17,640
Speaker 1: Since it occurred right at the same time the Cold

492
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 1: War kicked off, you won't be surprised to hear that

493
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: it was profoundly anti communist. And again it's not until

494
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,920
Speaker 1: the seventies, like seventy three, seventy four something like that,

495
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 1: that it starts to become political in the traditional sense,

496
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: like a right wing movement, and you know, anti abortion

497
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 1: gets tacked on, and it becomes eventually like a part

498
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,880
Speaker 1: of the Republican Party. That hasn't happened yet, but it evolves.

499
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 1: For that evolves from this Jerry fallwell, and stuff all

500
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,640
Speaker 1: comes out of this post World War two healing revival,

501
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,640
Speaker 1: which is from the beginning rooted in anti communism because

502
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: of the Cold War. So all of this is a

503
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 1: lot of stuff going on, is what I'm saying now, Brandom,

504
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:54,879
Speaker 1: this preacher who Paul Shaffer comes to follow is a

505
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 1: preacher in Indiana. He's an evangelical preacher in Indiana, and

506
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 1: Indiana in the late nineteen forties was still from the

507
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 1: Second ku Klux Klan. The KKK national office had been

508
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 1: located there, and even though the clan had faded in

509
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 1: size and influenced by the fifties, Indiana still had a

510
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 1: lot of clansmen. William Branham had been brought into the

511
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 1: Pentecostal faith by an official clan spokesman named Roy Davis.

512
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 1: So the guy who brings Brannaman is a klansman. And

513
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 1: as you might expect. Branham is rather hard right in

514
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 1: his own beliefs, telling his tens of thousands of followers

515
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,679
Speaker 1: that they must strictly follow the Bible, reject communism, and

516
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:34,360
Speaker 1: ensure that women obey their husbands no matter what. Um not,

517
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 1: not great stuff coming in here. Brandham later inducted a

518
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 1: charismatic young preacher. So Brandham gets brought in by this clansman,

519
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 1: and he brings in a charismatic young preacher to the

520
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 1: evangelical faith and guy you might have heard of named

521
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 1: Jim Jones. Boy, we had our real best stuff coming

522
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 1: for you today, Like The Avengers of Evil, Yeah, the

523
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 1: Adventures of Weird sixties cult Leaders. Yeah. Um God, And

524
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: you know the guy who played what's the name of

525
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 1: the dude in The Avengers, the suit guy who gets

526
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 1: killed in the first movie and then gets his own

527
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: TV Yeah. Click. Great. Honestly, wouldn't make a bad Paul

528
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 1: Schaeffer good actor. Doesn't look wildly different from him. Um,

529
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 1: if you're doing an Avengers of Evangelical cult Leaders, which

530
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 1: is a terrible idea, I mean it's it's a terrible

531
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 1: idea to do in life, but for a movie, I

532
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 1: mean I would I'd go to a matinee, you know

533
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,239
Speaker 1: what I mean? It would be fun if if that

534
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 1: movie was just like Paul Shaffer, Jim Jones and Aunt

535
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 1: Man played by Paul red Man. What are you doing here?

536
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 1: Why do you have hundreds of people in the jungle?

537
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 1: So um, Paul Rudd could absolutely pull that off by

538
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: the very charismatic so brandam. Later, So Brandon brings Jim

539
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 1: Jones into the faith, and Brandon and Jim Jones do

540
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 1: preaching revival meetings to together in the late nineteen fifties

541
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 1: and early sixties. And I'm gonna quote from a write

542
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: up by John Collins from San Diego University here and

543
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 1: this is He's too. Collins is writing about how this

544
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 1: healing revival in the United States Branham and Jones, how

545
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 1: this influences Paul Shaffer. The Healing Revival itself coincided with

546
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: the Second Red Scare of nineteen forty seven to nineteen

547
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 1: fifty seven, and some revivalists of that era claimed to

548
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 1: have prophetic insight into what they considered to be the

549
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 1: impending destruction of the United States. The state of Indiana

550
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 1: heavily impacted by the propaganda of the Ku Klux Klan

551
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 1: and its anti communist speeches in literature held crowds of

552
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: people eager to hear any extraordinary insight into the turmoil ahead.

553
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 1: Two years prior to the Jones Brandon revival, at the

554
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: Cattle Tabernacle, William Brannam began proclaiming the first of several

555
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 1: of his doomsday predictions, claiming that nineteen fifty four was

556
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,959
Speaker 1: the year of destruction. Only two months prior to their revival,

557
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 1: Brandam updated his prediction to nineteen fifty six as the

558
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: final year for America to accept his vision of the gospel.

559
00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 1: This prediction came with emphasis on his claim of a

560
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 1: prophetic vis describing communist Russia's bombing northern Kentucky and southern Indiana.

561
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 1: His doomsday predictions appeared to have finally made an influence

562
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 1: on Jim Jones. By nineteen sixty one, Jones himself began

563
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 1: claiming prophetic vision of the same bombing. In November of

564
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty one, Brandham claimed that great men around the

565
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: world were predicting that the first bomb from Russia would

566
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 1: drop in drop in Louisville, Kentucky, a mile from the

567
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 1: Indiana border. Around the same time, in the fall of

568
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty one, Jim Jones began claiming to have had

569
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 1: a prophetic vision of Indianapolis being consumed in nuclear holocaust.

570
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 1: So this is fascinating. This Jim Jones connection is fascinating

571
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 1: because he and Paul Schaeffer both huge fans of Brandham

572
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 1: and both do the same basic thing, which is take

573
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 1: a group of people from their home country to a

574
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 1: foreign country to create a cult that then does a

575
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 1: tremendous amount of violence. Um. One of the things that

576
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 1: I'm sorry what you are we talking about where Jim

577
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 1: Jones gets involved fifty nine Paul Shaffer flees sixty one

578
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: is when Jim Jones, I think when he leaves. Actually,

579
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 1: so Jim Jones hits the ground running in ens of

580
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 1: like well though Jones starts creating with Brandham in the fifties. Yeah,

581
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 1: so Jim Jones will do a hole of Jim Jones episode.

582
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: It's fascinating. But one of the things that's interesting to

583
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 1: me is that he and Paul Schaeffer have the same

584
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: kind of mentor guy, the same basic journey, absolutely opposite politics.

585
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 1: Paul Schaeffer is a fucking Nazi, right like literally literally

586
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 1: a Nazi Jim Jones is a lifelong anti racist activist.

587
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 1: He spoke regularly about the need for socialism. Most of

588
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 1: his followers were black, um, and a huge part of

589
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:36,719
Speaker 1: what he was doing with why he took people out

590
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 1: of the United States was this nation is so lost

591
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 1: to fascism and racism that we can't survive here. We

592
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 1: have to flee to someone where we couldn't create an ethical,

593
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 1: multiracial society. Um. Whereas Paul Schaeffer is a Nazi. And

594
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 1: it's fascinating that they have the same religious uh inspiration

595
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 1: behind what they're doing, and they do the same things

596
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 1: for exactly opposite politics, and they do it at the

597
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 1: same fucking time. Um, because nineteen sixty one is when

598
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 1: both guys leave to start their cults in foreign countries. Yeah,

599
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 1: it's amazing. Um. It's like the common denominator could be

600
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: the problem, could could be what could be the problem?

601
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 1: Could be the problem? Yeah, maybe we should look at

602
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 1: what the common denominators, maybe the Pentecostal faith is. Yeah,

603
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 1: I've just thrown it out there. Yeah. Yeah, I don't

604
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 1: want to get too much into that. I don't want

605
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: to be canceling the snake handlers. Well, let me just

606
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 1: take a little sip of Strict nine here. Yeah, oh yeah,

607
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: do some psychic surgery. We'll talk more again. Jim Jones

608
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 1: deserves a couple of episodes on his own fascinating story.

609
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: But um so it's hard for me to say whether

610
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: or not Paul Schaffer was a real believer in Brandom's

611
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 1: message of illuming apocalypse or if he was an opportunist

612
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 1: who was like, oh, this guy is preaching. Because Schaffer

613
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 1: is not just pre ching that, he's uh that the

614
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 1: US is going to get nuked in nineteen sixty one,

615
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:06,960
Speaker 1: actually the same year that Brandam and Jim Jones preach

616
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 1: in Indianapolis. Later that year, Brandham goes to Germany and

617
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 1: he preaches that Germany is gonna get nuked too, And

618
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 1: Paul Schaeffer is a follower of this guy, goes to

619
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 1: his followers and says, hey, Germany is not safe anymore.

620
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 1: And it just is coincidental that also he can't be

621
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 1: in Germany anymore because he's wanted for the police for

622
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:26,640
Speaker 1: molesting kids. It works, people, I will give people of

623
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 1: that era in this it was very easy to believe

624
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 1: that anywhere was going to be nuked. Yeah, that that

625
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 1: is not unreasonable, Like it barely didn't happen, Like we

626
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,439
Speaker 1: were right on the edge for a while there. Um.

627
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 1: Thankfully we solved that problem, and nuclear apocalypse is no

628
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: longer a looming threat entirely in the hands of a

629
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 1: single person and a given point in time. What a relief,

630
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,919
Speaker 1: What a relief. Um. So. In nineteen sixty one, Paul

631
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,879
Speaker 1: Shaffer takes the first ten of his followers overseas to Chile.

632
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:03,840
Speaker 1: He had apparently decided that Chile in particular was a

633
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 1: good place to move after a chance meeting with the

634
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 1: Chilean ambassador when he's in the Middle East, and the

635
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 1: ambassador didn't know this guy's an accused pedophile. It was like,

636
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 1: you're looking for a place to move your flock of

637
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 1: religious followers. We got a shipload of Chile. I mean

638
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 1: so much Chile to be handed out. Come and get

639
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 1: your Chile. Um. The very best information in English about

640
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 1: Schaefer's cult comes from an article in The American Scholar

641
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 1: by Bruce Falconer, which is an incredible name for a journalist. Um.

642
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 1: He writes, quote Faden is a Falconer named Bruce journalist.

643
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: Bruce journalist. No, no, I'm in the falconry the other

644
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:49,399
Speaker 1: guys the journalist um quote. A faded black and white

645
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: photograph shows Schaefer stepping off the plane in Santiago in

646
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,879
Speaker 1: January nineteen sixty one and a long black winter coat

647
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: and matching fedora, smiling faintly. Within a year, using funds

648
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 1: collected from his congregation back in Germany, Schaefer bought an

649
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 1: abandoned forty four hundred acre ranch several hundred miles south

650
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,839
Speaker 1: of Santiago, which he and some ten original settlers from

651
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 1: Germany began to rebuild. By the end of nineteen sixty three,

652
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 1: an initial group of approximately two hundred and thirty Germans,

653
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:18,239
Speaker 1: the bulk of Schaefer's congregation, had immigrated from Europe to

654
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 1: the newly named Colonia Dignidad Dignity Colony. Two more waves

655
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 1: of German pilgrims followed in nineteen sixty six and seventy three,

656
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 1: most belonging to the fifteen families that formed the core

657
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 1: of Schaefer's following. So this is the way this works,

658
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:34,399
Speaker 1: and it's there's footage of that documentary. It's a lot

659
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 1: of like wild wild country stuff where you've got these

660
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 1: groups of white people in in the middle of the wilderness,

661
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 1: who are like putting together building you know, these massive

662
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 1: barracks is and barns and whatnot from kind of unhewn

663
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 1: wild land. Um. And one of the things about this

664
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,839
Speaker 1: is that there's not enough space to host everybody at first.

665
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:56,240
Speaker 1: So he says, at first, Hey, we're just gonna build

666
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 1: one big barracks to host everybody, and everyone's gonna live

667
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 1: communally instead of in family groups and houses. But that's temporary.

668
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 1: Don't worry. Eventually every family is going to get their

669
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 1: own house. It's just right now, that's not practical. So

670
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: keep that in mind that Chile, there's a lot. But

671
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 1: you can't make a house in a night, Paul. You

672
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 1: can if you're Jimmy Carter and you're motivated by the

673
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 1: ghosts of all the war corrects you had to do

674
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 1: as president. So but Jimmy Carter's president, well, not quite president,

675
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 1: but not far from it at this point. So Schaefer's

676
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,160
Speaker 1: passage into Chile was eased by the fact that the

677
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 1: elected government at the time was led by President George Alessandri,

678
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 1: a conservative, who gave him personal permission to create his

679
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 1: Dignity Colony. The land he bought was a former farm

680
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 1: outside of a town called Parol, dead in the middle

681
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 1: of Chile. Nestled amongst the Indian foothills. It was a

682
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 1: fairly isolated place, and this allowed Paul to exert something

683
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,360
Speaker 1: like total control over his followers. In Germany, most of

684
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 1: his congregation had not lived with him. He did have

685
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:57,800
Speaker 1: his orphanage and a corps of single mothers and children

686
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,120
Speaker 1: who had no choice but to stay with him, but

687
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:02,319
Speaker 1: much of his congregation had lived in their own private homes.

688
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 1: People giving him money all had houses and stuff nearby.

689
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 1: Now that they were all in Chile, though, everybody effectively

690
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 1: lived with Schaefer and thus under his rule at all times,

691
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 1: and he quickly took total control. Step one was to

692
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 1: forbid anyone from engaging in private conversations. So you cannot

693
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 1: talk if there's just two of you, as he tells

694
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 1: his flock quote, if two are gathered, they are under

695
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 1: the devil. If three are gathered, they are under Jesus.

696
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 1: So because the Sophie were under the devil right now, Paul, thanks, wait,

697
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 1: now we're under Jesus because of Sophie. Never mind, who

698
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:41,879
Speaker 1: was just you and I would be at It's hard

699
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:46,359
Speaker 1: to keep there's a lot going on here to keep

700
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 1: track of. But it's like it's actually it's I'm a

701
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,399
Speaker 1: little messed up. Yeah, no, there's there's a lot going

702
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,320
Speaker 1: on here, going on a lot of people because Jesus

703
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: of being the devil to Robert. That's right, that's right,

704
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:01,440
Speaker 1: and you know what, maybe he was. We don't know.

705
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: Oh boy, now that's another episode behind the Jesus. So

706
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 1: back in Germany, Schaefer's followers had been ordered to confess

707
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 1: their sins on a regular basis, as often as possible.

708
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 1: In group. This was ratcheted up though. Sins now had

709
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 1: to be confessed immediately, whether the sins were physical actions

710
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,960
Speaker 1: or just thoughts. Now. Another key aspect of life at

711
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:28,399
Speaker 1: the Dignity Colony was that children and their parents had

712
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:34,840
Speaker 1: to be separated forever. Like you said, that seems to you, huh,

713
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,720
Speaker 1: it's like that. I don't know. What's so what's amazing

714
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:40,760
Speaker 1: to me about because this this was sent in onto

715
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 1: right where they separated the kids. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

716
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 1: you're right, you're right, and right around the same time. Yeah,

717
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: that doesn't that's not an immediate red flag is always

718
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 1: like that's that's how sad cults are is that you're

719
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:56,320
Speaker 1: so sucked into this thing that there must be something

720
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:58,839
Speaker 1: inside of you, and said, is this right that they

721
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:02,320
Speaker 1: take my kids away from I feel like it's natural

722
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 1: for children to be important to parents. It's almost like

723
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:08,439
Speaker 1: I'm having an instinct right now. Yeah, I am having

724
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 1: to fight against Yeah, this feels maybe unnatural, maybe abandoning

725
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:16,360
Speaker 1: your children and having no contact with them through forces

726
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 1: like not human. But what do I know? What do

727
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,399
Speaker 1: I know? He's holy? I'm not He's He's the holy

728
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 1: Man who can't live in Germany for unspecified reasons. Also,

729
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,320
Speaker 1: I did tell him that I thought about a boob recently.

730
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:32,919
Speaker 1: Oh man, I don't want that tid thing getting out.

731
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 1: He can tell my parents who were Nazis. So another yea,

732
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 1: So parents and children had to be separated. Now, Paul,

733
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 1: to go into this little detail, I need to note

734
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 1: the source here is Wikipedia, and as a rule, I

735
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 1: don't like to use Wikipedia as a source for my episodes,

736
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 1: not because it's not a useful it's very useful, but

737
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 1: because you can always trace the claims back, and that's

738
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,759
Speaker 1: always ideal. But of the claims for this episode are

739
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 1: based on recorded conversations that Schaefer had with people, and

740
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,280
Speaker 1: those were translated by somebody who was doing the wickie,

741
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 1: and that's where I found the translation. So we're trusting

742
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 1: them a little bit on this. Um, I don't see

743
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 1: a reason not to, particularly um cat caveat Emptoor. Yeah.

744
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 1: So this translation from Wikipedia claims that Schaefer justified his

745
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: child parents separation policy by claiming the problems in child

746
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:31,240
Speaker 1: education aren't the children, they are always the parents, because

747
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 1: the parents are responsible for the sins of the children. True.

748
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:41,319
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, that's that's that's not again that's good

749
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:43,920
Speaker 1: cult ship though, because that's the thing where it's like, okay,

750
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,399
Speaker 1: well you can't argue that point. But it's also it's

751
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 1: irrelevant to the idea of separating children permanently from their parents,

752
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 1: like exact, well, yeah, generally, if a kid is doing

753
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:56,719
Speaker 1: something fucked up, it's the parents something the parent it

754
00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 1: is involved because their kids. You know. Essentially, the reasoning is,

755
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 1: if you're gonna do something, do it right. So if

756
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:05,239
Speaker 1: the if the parents are responsible for the sins uh

757
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,439
Speaker 1: and and and intrudes on the teaching, I just gotta

758
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 1: get those kids out of there. Got to get those

759
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:14,160
Speaker 1: kids out of there, Gotta unparent them. That's the problem. Now.

760
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:17,360
Speaker 1: The reality, of course, is that again Paul Shaffer was

761
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 1: a pedophile on an industrial scale, and as a pedophile,

762
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 1: your best situation, the situation he had in the orphanage

763
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 1: was pretty good, but obviously one of those moms was

764
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:27,919
Speaker 1: able to go to the cops because they were still

765
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 1: living in society. The best situation is to drop out

766
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:34,279
Speaker 1: of society, have your own weird, self sufficient cult where

767
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 1: parents and their children are forced to live separately, but

768
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 1: you have total run over all of the facilities and

769
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 1: couldn't go anywhere. That's that's your best case scenario as

770
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 1: a pedophile. Um. Yeah, and he's orchestrated this, and I

771
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 1: have to think I don't. It's always the question like

772
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 1: what do they what do they believe? How much of

773
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 1: it did they buy into? With any cult leader, you

774
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:58,840
Speaker 1: have that question. With Schaefer, maybe he believed something. But

775
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,359
Speaker 1: I can't help but see everything he's doing is this

776
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 1: extremely calculated, years long plan to develop the best case

777
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:11,400
Speaker 1: scenario for a child molester. Like like that really feels

778
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 1: like at least a big part of what's going on here.

779
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 1: I mean because I don't know, I have not studied pedophilia.

780
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:19,799
Speaker 1: I don't know, like the but what from what I

781
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 1: what I kind of just know from osmosis is like

782
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:28,879
Speaker 1: the thing that makes pedophiles so horrible is that they

783
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 1: have convinced themselves that they are that this is okay

784
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 1: to do, and that people don't understand it. Yeah, and

785
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 1: so it's like the only that that's why I have

786
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:40,440
Speaker 1: to keep it hidden is because nobody would understand ort

787
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 1: understand what a what a pure love this is or whatever.

788
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 1: So it makes sense that that you would want to

789
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 1: uh create a world literally a world what you can

790
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 1: just do whatever you want and you don't have to

791
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 1: worry about people understanding it or not. Yeah, you make

792
00:43:57,840 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 1: the moral rules here so you don't have to care

793
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,880
Speaker 1: about what other people and you have convinced yourself that

794
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:07,279
Speaker 1: you're right. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that you

795
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 1: just have to you have to explain it in a

796
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 1: way that people will understand because they're not going to

797
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 1: understand the purity of what you are doing. Um, so

798
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 1: put it in terms of these these sort of like

799
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 1: these less evolved people like I don't know what they mean.

800
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:24,719
Speaker 1: I think that's how Schaper sees it, Yeah, because he

801
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 1: also sees we'll talk about this more. But like traditional

802
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 1: sex between adults as horrible and to be avoided at

803
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:37,919
Speaker 1: all costs. My god, I know this is um. There's

804
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 1: a lot going on with Mr Paul. Yeah. So if

805
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:45,719
Speaker 1: you're curious about the experience of little kids taken from

806
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 1: a relatively normal home life in Germany to this whole world,

807
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 1: I want to read you the story of a kid

808
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:53,839
Speaker 1: named Werner Schmidka Um. This is from a write up

809
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 1: in Reuters Quote. He sailed to Chile in nineteen sixty two,

810
00:44:58,160 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 1: was a two year old, along with his mother and

811
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,360
Speaker 1: nine brothers and sisters, one of whom died as a

812
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 1: child in Colonia Dignidad. His parents were convinced to sell

813
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 1: the family home and follow Schaeffer to South America by

814
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 1: his powerful preaching and promise of a more godly life.

815
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 1: Schmidka's father stayed in Germany to look after the sect's

816
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 1: business interests and joined them in Chile eight years later.

817
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 1: On board the ship, the children were separated from their mother,

818
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 1: whom Schmidka remembers as a good hearted woman, and then

819
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 1: were kept apart like the other families in the enclave.

820
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 1: In their new home. Schmika lived in the Timber kinder

821
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:33,400
Speaker 1: House or children's house, where Schaeffer had his private apartment.

822
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 1: It was there that he first encountered the charismatic leader.

823
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:38,879
Speaker 1: One or two boys would be taken to his room

824
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 1: every day, and one day I was called Schmidka told Reuters.

825
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:44,239
Speaker 1: He sat me down on his bed and started to

826
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 1: stroke me and ask me questions, to talk the way

827
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 1: a father talks to his child. And I had no

828
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:52,800
Speaker 1: parents anymore. I have never forgotten my first dealings with Shaeffer,

829
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:55,279
Speaker 1: he said. I was about seven or eight. That is

830
00:45:55,320 --> 00:46:00,279
Speaker 1: when the abuse and rape started. So they're a lot

831
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 1: going on here. One of the things he's doing is

832
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 1: he's in order to make these kids, I think, more compliant,

833
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 1: you take away their parents and then you're like, I'm

834
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 1: the father figure for all of the kids here. And

835
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 1: not only does that mean the parents aren't around to complain,

836
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:19,440
Speaker 1: but like kids, the parents, you know, um, and they

837
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,360
Speaker 1: don't they're they're more they're understanding of the moral universe

838
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,239
Speaker 1: is heavily influenced by parents. And so if this guy

839
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 1: who's the only father figure they're allowed, is saying, this

840
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 1: is just what you do, Yeah, it's just what you do.

841
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:35,840
Speaker 1: You're eight you know, Yeah, it's pretty funked up. It's

842
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 1: it's it's real bad, like I don't know, it's it's

843
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 1: it's already monstrous enough. And then when you get into

844
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 1: the what feels like the deviousness of it all. Yeah,

845
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 1: it's it's heartbreaking that somebody, somebody can be this evil. Yeah,

846
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 1: it is evil on like an almost incomprehensible scale, because

847
00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 1: he spent like a decade orchestrating this, like the work

848
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 1: that was put into it. Yeah, um, it's it's honestly,

849
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:10,920
Speaker 1: is so far a pretty unique story that I've come across,

850
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:17,400
Speaker 1: Like this is a thank God like yeah, but you

851
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 1: know what's not a unique story advertisements, the story of

852
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 1: the success of all of our fantastic advertisers. That's not

853
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:30,600
Speaker 1: unique at all because there's so many wonderful products and

854
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:40,799
Speaker 1: services that support this podcast. So we're back, and yeah,

855
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 1: we're talking about the fact that there's elements of this

856
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 1: in a number of cults, taking kids away from parents,

857
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 1: even like Ron Hubbard did this to some of his

858
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 1: followers and stuff, and it wasn't like I don't I've

859
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 1: never come across any evidence that he was a child molester.

860
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 1: It's also just like as a cult leader. The concept

861
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 1: of a family is one of your chief enemies, right like.

862
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 1: But yeah, so we have, Oh, I no way of

863
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:04,240
Speaker 1: knowing how many children Schaeffer abused. It's not even entirely

864
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:07,360
Speaker 1: clear to me. I think it was was boys, just boys,

865
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:09,880
Speaker 1: but that I can't say that to a point of certainty.

866
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:12,359
Speaker 1: All of the direct claims I've heard from victims were male.

867
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 1: But again, I'm sort of locked out from a lot

868
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 1: of the survivor accounts of this guy because I don't

869
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:18,839
Speaker 1: read German, and a decent number of those accounts are

870
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 1: in German language print books that have not been digitized,

871
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 1: um in any way or translated. One thing that's clear

872
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 1: is that Paul Schaeffer absolutely hated the concept of people

873
00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 1: having sex in a way that did not involve him

874
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 1: molesting children. There's a story that's told in that Netflix

875
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:37,279
Speaker 1: documentary of of two of his victim well to two

876
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:39,319
Speaker 1: people who were in the cult, one of whom, as

877
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:41,799
Speaker 1: a young boy, was one of his victims. Um and

878
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 1: they're married now, and they talk about there was one

879
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 1: time early on in the cults history where they did

880
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 1: a big dance with all the men and women, and

881
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:53,280
Speaker 1: Schaeffer saw the way they tell the story, he saw

882
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:57,359
Speaker 1: a couple of like young couples, like little kids, who

883
00:48:57,360 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 1: were clearly like into each other, including this couple who

884
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 1: again lad to get married, dancing together, and it it

885
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:05,840
Speaker 1: enraged him because he was jealous of the boys that

886
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:08,720
Speaker 1: the girls were like. That's why he starts to separate

887
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 1: the sex, because he's insanely jealous that there will be

888
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:14,600
Speaker 1: rivals for the attention of these little boys. Um, and

889
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:17,960
Speaker 1: that's why he separates the genders. Uh, that's that's what

890
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 1: they claim. I don't know, like you know that they're

891
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 1: they're coming at this from one perspective. I don't know

892
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:25,719
Speaker 1: how much that it was played ahead of time. But um.

893
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 1: One of the things that's interesting in that documentary, while

894
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 1: the husband relates the stories of the time Schaefer abused him,

895
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:35,320
Speaker 1: his wife is sitting there next to him. It was

896
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 1: also in the cult and I think, if you want

897
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:41,200
Speaker 1: to look at the purest expression of hatred I've ever

898
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:45,880
Speaker 1: seen on a human face, her face in that scene is, Uh,

899
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:50,560
Speaker 1: it's chilling. Um. Obviously completely justified, but it is quite

900
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:55,760
Speaker 1: a thing to see. UM. So back in Germany, Schaefer

901
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 1: had obviously preached about abstinence constantly, and now that he

902
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:02,000
Speaker 1: was in Chile, he insisted that everybody be abstinent, even

903
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 1: married couples. Schaefer preached that women were temptresses who would

904
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:09,360
Speaker 1: uncontrollably drive men too sexual sin and pull them away

905
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:13,400
Speaker 1: from God. Channeling his spiritual mentor Brandam, he argued that

906
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:16,040
Speaker 1: this was why women needed to be tightly controlled by men.

907
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:19,360
Speaker 1: But unlike Brandam, he didn't believe that husbands could be

908
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 1: trusted with this job. Only he could keep sexual anarchy

909
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:28,560
Speaker 1: at bay. So he's taking this this this traditional Christian

910
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 1: cult leaders like, women have to be controlled because of

911
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:33,600
Speaker 1: their uncontrollable sexuality. So you have to make sure people

912
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:36,480
Speaker 1: women are tightly unalish until they're married, and then it's

913
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:39,880
Speaker 1: there husband's responsive. Shaffer's like, even if they've got a husband,

914
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 1: they'll be fucking and God doesn't what. People fucking know what.

915
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:45,320
Speaker 1: Let me take care of this. I got a better idea.

916
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:46,719
Speaker 1: I'll be in charge of it, so you don't have

917
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 1: to worry about it. Isn't that great as time? Yeah,

918
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:57,640
Speaker 1: let's work for you, because you just can't. As time

919
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 1: went on, women and men were entirely i selated from

920
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 1: each other at the Colonial women were dressed at all

921
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:05,800
Speaker 1: time in baggy sackcloth dresses that were meant to hide

922
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:08,319
Speaker 1: every hint of breasts or hips. They wore their hair

923
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 1: in tight buns. Both men and women engaged in constant

924
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:14,200
Speaker 1: hard labor, sometimes for twelve hours a day to ensure

925
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 1: they were too tired to bone. The side effect of

926
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:18,719
Speaker 1: this is that they made a lot of money For

927
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:21,160
Speaker 1: Paul Shaffer, these are Germans, you know, they're good at

928
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:31,560
Speaker 1: They're good at work, industrious people. Yeah. So, after he'd

929
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 1: arrived in Chile, his agents back in Germany has succeeded

930
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 1: in selling his old orphanage, which he used to buy

931
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 1: a German stone crushing machine in order to operate a

932
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:43,400
Speaker 1: profitable quarry. His followers began to farm too, and in

933
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:46,320
Speaker 1: a few years they were selling both wheat and quarried stone.

934
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:48,799
Speaker 1: Gradually they build up a financial but they do start

935
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:51,120
Speaker 1: selling like broad worst and stuff like German. They start

936
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:54,280
Speaker 1: making and selling like raising animals, making German food products

937
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 1: to sell to Chile like Argentina has a sizeable German

938
00:51:57,520 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 1: expat community for reasons that are not right. Uh, but

939
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 1: all of this allows them to build a financial base. Uh.

940
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:08,359
Speaker 1: And they were able to build a lot of infrastructure

941
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:11,240
Speaker 1: on this compound, including several barracks, is for the faithful

942
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 1: to live in. And again it starts as like we

943
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:15,360
Speaker 1: all have to live in the same barracks, and then

944
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 1: all men and have to live in one and women

945
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:19,040
Speaker 1: have to live in the other. Because we haven't been

946
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:21,040
Speaker 1: here long, we don't have time to make everyone a house.

947
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 1: And then gradually shavers like you know what, nobody's getting houses.

948
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:29,080
Speaker 1: You're all living communally except for me. I have a

949
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 1: bedroom in the children's house. I just feel like the gymnastics,

950
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:35,520
Speaker 1: the mental gymnastics that people are in a cult have

951
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:39,280
Speaker 1: to go through with with all of the plans changing

952
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:42,040
Speaker 1: all the time, like it's the same story every time,

953
00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 1: where it's like I promise you this, but now here's

954
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:46,800
Speaker 1: a different thing. I I told you I was immortal,

955
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:50,120
Speaker 1: but guess what now now I'm this like and these

956
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:53,239
Speaker 1: poor people have to keep it must like the the

957
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 1: number must do on your brain to to just be

958
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:59,839
Speaker 1: in that kind of denial and say like, well, I mean,

959
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:02,719
Speaker 1: he is the sort of god on earth to me,

960
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:04,960
Speaker 1: and I just have to trust that he knows what's best,

961
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:09,360
Speaker 1: even though he's changed this plan every single time. You

962
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 1: know what, there's an element of it that this is

963
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:15,320
Speaker 1: like if you've ever been in a relationship that gets

964
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 1: really bad and you're living together and it becomes intolerable,

965
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:22,759
Speaker 1: but you're like, ship, we gotta like figure out what

966
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:24,719
Speaker 1: to do about the least, like I have to have

967
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 1: to separate our stuff, all this stuff we bought together.

968
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:29,360
Speaker 1: We have to figure out who And you just continue

969
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 1: to say, stay in an intolerable situation because you think

970
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:34,799
Speaker 1: about like the logistics of getting out of it. These

971
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:37,440
Speaker 1: people don't come to Germany being like, yeah, everyone will

972
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:39,279
Speaker 1: be separated, you'll have no family, you'll live in a

973
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:41,399
Speaker 1: barracks with every one of the same gender in age

974
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:44,319
Speaker 1: as you. They told like, well, you know, come over here,

975
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:46,440
Speaker 1: we're gonna build this godly community. You know, everyone will

976
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:47,920
Speaker 1: have their houses eventually, but we got to do this

977
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:49,759
Speaker 1: first and this first, and this first, and then it

978
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:52,000
Speaker 1: becomes clear that like, oh no, this has changed and

979
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 1: this is never going to happen. You're there and you

980
00:53:55,120 --> 00:54:00,560
Speaker 1: don't have to pass forward out exactly. Um, yeah, it's

981
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:04,400
Speaker 1: it's difficult in people just accept things, you know, and

982
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:07,719
Speaker 1: also like everybody who knows, they're like, what are you

983
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 1: going back to you know um that said, while most

984
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 1: people go along with this, there weren't folks who rebelled

985
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:17,280
Speaker 1: from the beginning. And Bruce Falconer writes about these rebels

986
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 1: quote a rebel named Wolfgang Mueller tried to escape on

987
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 1: three separate occasions twice one then once in nineteen sixty

988
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:27,000
Speaker 1: two and again in nineteen sixty four. He fled to

989
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:29,440
Speaker 1: the home of a Chilean family in a nearby town,

990
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:32,759
Speaker 1: and twice members of the colonial security force found him

991
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:35,800
Speaker 1: there and brought him back. Both times, Mueller was beaten

992
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:39,080
Speaker 1: and forcibly sedated. On his third and final escape attempt,

993
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:41,719
Speaker 1: at nineteen sixty six, he made it as far as Santiago,

994
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 1: where he received police protection and sought refuge in a

995
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:48,640
Speaker 1: German embassy safe house. On orders from Schaffer, fifteen members

996
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:50,759
Speaker 1: of the colony stormed the house in an attempt to

997
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:54,960
Speaker 1: recapture him. After a fistfight with police, they fled. Soon after,

998
00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:58,400
Speaker 1: Mueller left Chile and found safety in Germany, where despite

999
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:02,240
Speaker 1: his repeated accusations against Schaefer, government officials took no action.

1000
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:05,680
Speaker 1: And there's this mix with the German government of on

1001
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:09,280
Speaker 1: the on the grand scale shameful failure to do anything

1002
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:12,759
Speaker 1: about this. On an individual scaling scale, there's some very

1003
00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:15,359
Speaker 1: heroic members of the German government. This When this kid

1004
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:18,440
Speaker 1: finally escapes to Santiago, he goes to like the German

1005
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:22,239
Speaker 1: ambassador basically in Santiago and tells him what's happened, and

1006
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:24,239
Speaker 1: this guy hides him in a safe house and like

1007
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 1: it's a significant danger and eventually helps him smuggle out

1008
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 1: to the country. So there's this mix of like the

1009
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:34,319
Speaker 1: German government total failure. Individuals in the German government do

1010
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:36,279
Speaker 1: a lot of laudable work to try to help this

1011
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:38,480
Speaker 1: guy and other people escape when they when they're able

1012
00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:42,680
Speaker 1: to get out. Um. It was actually the Chilean government,

1013
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:44,279
Speaker 1: which is not going to get a lot of praise

1014
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:47,799
Speaker 1: in this article, that first attempted to investigate Mueller's allegations

1015
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:51,680
Speaker 1: against Schaefer. In night, they sent a parliamentary delegation to

1016
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:54,640
Speaker 1: look into the claims of torture. Schaefer had his children

1017
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:56,640
Speaker 1: sing for the delegation and then applied them with a

1018
00:55:56,680 --> 00:55:59,480
Speaker 1: meal of excellent food. They determined that no abuse had

1019
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:01,360
Speaker 1: occurred and that Mueller was lying, and there was like

1020
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:03,359
Speaker 1: a period where they had like an a warrant out

1021
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:05,319
Speaker 1: to try to question him and stuff. They were like

1022
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:09,000
Speaker 1: Shaffer organized protests that never actually got him. And it's

1023
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:12,080
Speaker 1: like he has friends in the government, you know, like

1024
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:14,640
Speaker 1: right wing friends in the government because he's this, he's

1025
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 1: he's he's got a lot of money and stuff to

1026
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 1: throw around, and so does the Nazi community in Chile,

1027
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:21,560
Speaker 1: which is a part of this. We'll talk about that

1028
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:24,440
Speaker 1: more later. So, the first attempt to shed light on

1029
00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:27,480
Speaker 1: the crimes of Paul Schaefer and the Colonia Dignidad failed,

1030
00:56:27,719 --> 00:56:30,880
Speaker 1: not for lack of trying. Mueller still lived in Germany

1031
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:32,960
Speaker 1: as of two thousand eight, and now he operates a

1032
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:35,359
Speaker 1: nonprofit that works to fight the abuse of children by

1033
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:38,520
Speaker 1: religious sects. So he seems to have gotten out of

1034
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:41,799
Speaker 1: that as well as you possibly could. Now, there were

1035
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:44,440
Speaker 1: several attempts by children to flee the abuse of the

1036
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:47,200
Speaker 1: colonial during the nineteen sixties. One of the first was

1037
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:50,040
Speaker 1: Helmet Hop. He was caught and punished, but he had

1038
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 1: a chance to redeem himself and Paul Shaffer's eyes. In

1039
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:58,359
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty six, when another teenager succeeded in escaping, Wolfgang

1040
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:01,600
Speaker 1: Nice fled and managed to reach the German embassy. Again,

1041
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:04,840
Speaker 1: he made allegations that he had been tortured and sexually assaulted,

1042
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:07,239
Speaker 1: and he made these directly to the press. To deal

1043
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:10,120
Speaker 1: with this, Shaefer convinced Helmet Happ, who had just been

1044
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:12,400
Speaker 1: trying and trying to escape himself a few years earlier,

1045
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:16,360
Speaker 1: to go to Santiago and accused Niece of lying and

1046
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:20,000
Speaker 1: having sexually assaulted him. So he's like, hey, you want

1047
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:22,920
Speaker 1: to get back to my good graces, Like, I'll make

1048
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:24,840
Speaker 1: you my number one boy, but you gotta go say

1049
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:27,000
Speaker 1: number one. This guy's lying at number two. He's the

1050
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:31,160
Speaker 1: one who's doing the sexual assaults. This successfully muddies the

1051
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:34,840
Speaker 1: waters enough that Niece's allegations don't do any permanent damage

1052
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:38,440
Speaker 1: to the coult. Niece is allowed to return to Germany, thankfully,

1053
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:41,560
Speaker 1: and Schaefer rewards Hoped for his service by allowing him

1054
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:44,920
Speaker 1: to leave the colonia temporarily and go to medical school.

1055
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:47,840
Speaker 1: So this is like you play a ball with Shaefer,

1056
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:50,560
Speaker 1: you get you get special privileges other people don't get.

1057
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:53,400
Speaker 1: And he needs Hoped to be a doctor right because

1058
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:56,160
Speaker 1: he has a scheme that heavily involves having a doctor.

1059
00:57:57,200 --> 00:58:00,480
Speaker 1: So over the mid nineteen sixties, Schaeffer had been funneling

1060
00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:03,240
Speaker 1: the money made by his flox labor into the construction

1061
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:06,760
Speaker 1: of a sixty bed hospital. It was reportedly state of

1062
00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:08,880
Speaker 1: the art, and by the time hop came back from

1063
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 1: medical school a newly minted doctor, it was ready to go.

1064
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:14,880
Speaker 1: Paul Schaeffer was not a dumb man, and he understood

1065
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:16,480
Speaker 1: that bringing a bunch of Germans into the middle of

1066
00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:18,840
Speaker 1: Chile and the doing weird cult ship was something that

1067
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:21,320
Speaker 1: could go really bad, especially if the right wing president

1068
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:25,040
Speaker 1: who liked him got replaced the Colonia Dignidad Hospital though,

1069
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:27,800
Speaker 1: once they get this running, they start providing free healthcare

1070
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:31,080
Speaker 1: to local Chileans who have no closer options for medical

1071
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:34,400
Speaker 1: care of this quality. The hospital had sterile operating rooms,

1072
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:37,240
Speaker 1: a high quality maternity ward where for generations most of

1073
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:39,760
Speaker 1: the local women in the area give birth to their children.

1074
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:43,120
Speaker 1: About twenty six thousand people relied on this hospital, which

1075
00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:45,840
Speaker 1: is subsidized by government funds. You know, the government has

1076
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:50,160
Speaker 1: a vested interest in this continuing to function. It's smart. Wow,

1077
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:57,760
Speaker 1: the deviousness is yeah, it's off the charts. This guy,

1078
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:01,480
Speaker 1: Oh my godd like, I don't know, I guess it's

1079
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:04,400
Speaker 1: like for me, for me, if I try to do

1080
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:07,080
Speaker 1: something like this. Yeah, I would there's so many things

1081
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:10,440
Speaker 1: I would not have thought about. Yeah, hospital, then this

1082
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:14,120
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be nearly this good at a Chilean colt.

1083
00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:19,560
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, um, I mean it's uh, it's yeah, it's

1084
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:22,320
Speaker 1: it's something else. It's amazing how smart he is for

1085
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:24,720
Speaker 1: a man who once gouged his own eye out trying

1086
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:27,240
Speaker 1: to untie your shoe. But you know what, here's the thing.

1087
00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:32,600
Speaker 1: You You must learn from mistakes. That's right, that's right.

1088
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:35,000
Speaker 1: It's like, Okay, this didn't go the way it should have.

1089
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:37,920
Speaker 1: What could I have done differently? And then apply that

1090
00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:41,160
Speaker 1: lesson as you go along in life. Gouge my own

1091
00:59:41,160 --> 00:59:49,040
Speaker 1: eye out once, Shame on you. Yeah. So, the Colonia

1092
00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:51,720
Speaker 1: Dignata Hospital also pays for a network of buses that

1093
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:54,480
Speaker 1: drive to and from isolated villages in the area collect

1094
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:56,560
Speaker 1: locals who need to see a doctor in a regular basis.

1095
00:59:56,800 --> 00:59:59,320
Speaker 1: The Colonial also supplies local women with four and a

1096
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:01,680
Speaker 1: half pounds of powdered milk a month for the first

1097
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:04,440
Speaker 1: six months of their child's life, so this is becomes

1098
01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:07,560
Speaker 1: very quickly an integral part of the healthcare infrastructure of

1099
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:11,200
Speaker 1: this area. This is particularly a big deal because Chile

1100
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:13,160
Speaker 1: spends a lot of the sixties and seventies in a

1101
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:16,160
Speaker 1: state of political and economic turmoil, which we'll talk about

1102
01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:18,360
Speaker 1: a bit more later. The thrust of the matter is

1103
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:20,200
Speaker 1: that few of the powers that be in the area,

1104
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:23,160
Speaker 1: and even the regular people who live nearby, had any

1105
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:25,440
Speaker 1: interest in looking critically at what was going on in

1106
01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:28,000
Speaker 1: the colonial because it's a lifeline to the people there.

1107
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:31,120
Speaker 1: But while the hospital undoubtedly saved a lot of lives,

1108
01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:36,680
Speaker 1: it was by all accounts a quality hospital. Although qualities.

1109
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:40,720
Speaker 1: Let me explain to you what this hospital doing. It's

1110
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:42,480
Speaker 1: it's it's doing a lot of birds, it's doing a

1111
01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:44,360
Speaker 1: lot of surgeries. A lot of people's lives are saved

1112
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:46,560
Speaker 1: by this hospital. That is not all that it's doing.

1113
01:00:46,600 --> 01:00:49,920
Speaker 1: It is an integral part of Paul Shaffer's architecture of torture.

1114
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:54,040
Speaker 1: See As the colonial aged, Paul developed tactics for more

1115
01:00:54,040 --> 01:00:57,560
Speaker 1: clearly delineating and punishing the rebels. In his midst He

1116
01:00:57,680 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 1: forced the men to wear rebel like men who had

1117
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:03,560
Speaker 1: basically committed crimes against the colony, to wear red shirts

1118
01:01:03,560 --> 01:01:06,200
Speaker 1: and white pants. He forced the women to wear potato

1119
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:09,120
Speaker 1: sacks over their dresses, and he ordered the other followers

1120
01:01:09,120 --> 01:01:11,919
Speaker 1: to treat them with hatred. One rebel was a young

1121
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:14,320
Speaker 1: Chilean boy, and in order to deal with the fact

1122
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:17,960
Speaker 1: that his so in the late sixties, he starts taking

1123
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:19,960
Speaker 1: local Chilean boys in. And this is to deal with

1124
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 1: the fact that he's not letting his followers breed. Obviously,

1125
01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:25,160
Speaker 1: this guy's a pedophile. He's not letting his followers breed.

1126
01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:26,960
Speaker 1: So there's at some point not going to be any

1127
01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:29,040
Speaker 1: more young boys for him them molest so they start

1128
01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:31,840
Speaker 1: adopting local kids to provide him with a steady stream

1129
01:01:31,880 --> 01:01:35,680
Speaker 1: of victims. This boy, Franz Bar, was adopted by the

1130
01:01:35,720 --> 01:01:38,120
Speaker 1: German could when he was ten. Now he did not

1131
01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:40,760
Speaker 1: like being forced to live in a weird Nazi sex cult,

1132
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:42,920
Speaker 1: and by the time he was a teenager, Paul had

1133
01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:44,920
Speaker 1: singled him out as a rebel. I'm gonna quote from

1134
01:01:44,960 --> 01:01:48,520
Speaker 1: Bruce Falconer's article in The American Scholar here quote as

1135
01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:50,680
Speaker 1: Bar now remembers it, a group of men approached him

1136
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:52,640
Speaker 1: one day while he was working in the carpentry shop

1137
01:01:52,640 --> 01:01:54,520
Speaker 1: and accused him of stealing the keys to one of

1138
01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:57,600
Speaker 1: the dormitories. When Bar denied it, he was beaten unconscious

1139
01:01:57,600 --> 01:02:00,840
Speaker 1: with electric cables, his skull broken and loaded into an ambulance.

1140
01:02:01,080 --> 01:02:03,520
Speaker 1: He awoke sometime later in the hospital, where he would

1141
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:05,760
Speaker 1: remain as a prisoner for the next thirty one years.

1142
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:08,800
Speaker 1: Barr was kept in an upstairs section of the hospital,

1143
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:11,400
Speaker 1: never seen by the local Chileans who sought treatment there.

1144
01:02:11,560 --> 01:02:13,680
Speaker 1: As he later described to me, his days began with

1145
01:02:13,720 --> 01:02:16,720
Speaker 1: a series of intravenous injections, after which the nurses brought

1146
01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:19,320
Speaker 1: him bread in a plate with twelve to fifteen different pills.

1147
01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:22,760
Speaker 1: Once satisfied that he was properly medicated, nurses delivered his

1148
01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:25,280
Speaker 1: clothes and shoes hidden from him to reduce the likelihood

1149
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:29,040
Speaker 1: of escape. After he dressed, a security detailed escorted him

1150
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:31,480
Speaker 1: to his job at the carpentry shop. Bar worked on

1151
01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:34,360
Speaker 1: heavy machines in a cramped space. The injections and pills

1152
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:37,520
Speaker 1: slowed his movements and made him clumsy. Today, scar tissue

1153
01:02:37,560 --> 01:02:40,040
Speaker 1: on his forearms maps the places where the electric saws

1154
01:02:40,040 --> 01:02:42,560
Speaker 1: bit into his flesh. Barr was forced to work late

1155
01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:45,040
Speaker 1: into the night, sometimes until three am. He was not

1156
01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:47,520
Speaker 1: permitted to eat with the rest of the community. Instead,

1157
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:49,760
Speaker 1: his meals were delivered to him at the carpentry shop,

1158
01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:52,920
Speaker 1: where he devoured them in isolation. A still worse punishment

1159
01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:55,800
Speaker 1: awaited in rooms nine and fourteen of the hospital, where

1160
01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:58,959
Speaker 1: Barr and other members unfortunate enough to draw the full

1161
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:02,360
Speaker 1: measure of Shaffer's fear were subjected to shock treatments. A

1162
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:06,000
Speaker 1: female physician worked the machines, her mannered attached, and clinical

1163
01:03:06,280 --> 01:03:09,200
Speaker 1: patients were strapped down and fitted with crowns attached by

1164
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:11,840
Speaker 1: wires to a voltage machine. Barr told me how the

1165
01:03:11,880 --> 01:03:14,920
Speaker 1: doctors seemed to enjoy watching him suffer. She kept asking

1166
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:17,360
Speaker 1: me questions, he said. I heard what she was saying

1167
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:19,720
Speaker 1: and wanted to respond, but I couldn't. She was playing

1168
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:22,080
Speaker 1: with machine and asking what do you feel? Are you

1169
01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:24,400
Speaker 1: feeling something? She wanted to know what was happening to

1170
01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:30,320
Speaker 1: me as she adjusted the voltage. I mean, the female physician,

1171
01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:34,480
Speaker 1: was this an actual doctor, that is that is agreed to. Yeah,

1172
01:03:34,520 --> 01:03:36,960
Speaker 1: I'll torture these guys for you. I think these are

1173
01:03:36,960 --> 01:03:40,320
Speaker 1: people special, preferred people who he lets get medical degrees

1174
01:03:40,360 --> 01:03:42,800
Speaker 1: and whatnot, because he needs doctors and because he needs

1175
01:03:43,080 --> 01:03:45,440
Speaker 1: people to operate to do this torturing to help him

1176
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:48,600
Speaker 1: with that. Damn. He's also doing a lot of the torturing.

1177
01:03:48,640 --> 01:03:50,920
Speaker 1: A lot of sources will note that when they were tortured,

1178
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:55,320
Speaker 1: Schaefer was there. So he's often there, particularly when children

1179
01:03:55,360 --> 01:03:57,600
Speaker 1: are tortured, and he really likes to be the one

1180
01:03:57,640 --> 01:04:00,640
Speaker 1: who does the torturing of the children. That not always

1181
01:04:00,680 --> 01:04:03,440
Speaker 1: reasons given for punishment. Now, the bar's case was one

1182
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:05,560
Speaker 1: of the more elaborate ones, but it was not uncommon

1183
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:07,560
Speaker 1: for kids to get punished without being told why and

1184
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:11,120
Speaker 1: just beaten with rods for thirty minutes at a time. Um,

1185
01:04:11,160 --> 01:04:13,560
Speaker 1: it seems likely that this was just a kink of Shafer's.

1186
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:15,480
Speaker 1: This is something that gave him sexual pleasure and that's

1187
01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:22,200
Speaker 1: why he was doing it. Um, it's it's messed up, Paul, Yeah. Um. Now,

1188
01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:24,520
Speaker 1: one of the people who helped him with the torturing

1189
01:04:24,520 --> 01:04:28,280
Speaker 1: and punishment was a guy named Heinrich Himpel. Now himple survived.

1190
01:04:28,320 --> 01:04:30,320
Speaker 1: Paul Shafer he still lived, or at least when he

1191
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:32,479
Speaker 1: did this interview, he still lived in the colonia. Because

1192
01:04:32,520 --> 01:04:34,640
Speaker 1: it could pursue. It's still around a day, it exists

1193
01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:38,280
Speaker 1: after Shaver. Yeah, wait, don't you hear what they're doing

1194
01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:42,360
Speaker 1: with it? Now, Paul, you know what I'll tell you, Robert,

1195
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:44,360
Speaker 1: I did not I did not see that one. Yeah,

1196
01:04:46,320 --> 01:04:50,720
Speaker 1: A lot of surprises in this one. So this guy,

1197
01:04:50,800 --> 01:04:52,840
Speaker 1: Heinrich Himpel, who's one of the I don't think he's

1198
01:04:52,840 --> 01:04:56,520
Speaker 1: doing the the elected, the hardcore torture, but he's one

1199
01:04:56,520 --> 01:04:58,360
Speaker 1: of the guys who's like beating kids with a stick

1200
01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:01,080
Speaker 1: when they're punished and whatnot. Um and I think probably

1201
01:05:01,080 --> 01:05:03,480
Speaker 1: adults too. He gives an interview with Bruce Falconer of

1202
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:07,160
Speaker 1: The American Scholar, and Falconer writes quote Himple confides that

1203
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:09,520
Speaker 1: during World War Two, as the Soviets were pushing through

1204
01:05:09,520 --> 01:05:11,760
Speaker 1: Eastern Europe, his family had been forced out of East

1205
01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:14,520
Speaker 1: Prussia and thrown into a Soviet labor camp in Poland.

1206
01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:17,560
Speaker 1: They spent five years there under terrible conditions. His brother

1207
01:05:17,600 --> 01:05:20,120
Speaker 1: and sister froze to death in the snow. He describes

1208
01:05:20,160 --> 01:05:22,560
Speaker 1: the highfenses that had surrounded the camp in Poland and

1209
01:05:22,640 --> 01:05:24,960
Speaker 1: draws them in my notebook, with coils of razor wire

1210
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:27,400
Speaker 1: at their base. He tells me that after his release,

1211
01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:29,920
Speaker 1: he had gone to Germany and joined a shaffer's congregation.

1212
01:05:30,280 --> 01:05:32,160
Speaker 1: I asked him why he had moved to Chile. He

1213
01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:34,680
Speaker 1: thinks for a minute, smiles, and says, I came here

1214
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:36,720
Speaker 1: to do five years of charity work. But then I

1215
01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:40,120
Speaker 1: forgot how to leave. And that's a key and why

1216
01:05:40,360 --> 01:05:42,640
Speaker 1: people are willing to accept this brutality, and why some

1217
01:05:42,640 --> 01:05:44,680
Speaker 1: of these people are willing to do this brutality. You

1218
01:05:44,760 --> 01:05:47,680
Speaker 1: have to think about what was their fucking childhood, Like

1219
01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:51,320
Speaker 1: they were Germans in the early forties, you know, like

1220
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:55,480
Speaker 1: everything that's happening seems a little bit less fucked up

1221
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:58,560
Speaker 1: if your childhood was My family starved to death at

1222
01:05:58,560 --> 01:06:02,520
Speaker 1: a prison camp after the war when I was a child, Like, yeah,

1223
01:06:02,680 --> 01:06:06,520
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's yeah, a real man hands down misery,

1224
01:06:06,520 --> 01:06:11,320
Speaker 1: demand situation um. Now, depending on how you measure such things.

1225
01:06:11,360 --> 01:06:14,360
Speaker 1: The rebels, the people like bar who were punished, were

1226
01:06:14,360 --> 01:06:16,720
Speaker 1: in some ways the lucky ones, because on the other

1227
01:06:16,800 --> 01:06:19,080
Speaker 1: end of things were the young boys who Schaefer considered

1228
01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:23,520
Speaker 1: the his his golden boys, the ideal representatives of proper behavior.

1229
01:06:23,880 --> 01:06:26,360
Speaker 1: He called these his sprinters, and this is because of

1230
01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:28,520
Speaker 1: the job that he gave them. If he wanted to

1231
01:06:28,520 --> 01:06:30,720
Speaker 1: speak to a follower who was laboring in a distant

1232
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:32,680
Speaker 1: end of the colonia, he would send a sprinter to

1233
01:06:32,760 --> 01:06:34,760
Speaker 1: run off and go get them. L Ron Hubberd actually

1234
01:06:34,760 --> 01:06:36,440
Speaker 1: did a very similar thing. He had this network of

1235
01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:39,240
Speaker 1: little kids who would be his voice to his followers.

1236
01:06:39,840 --> 01:06:45,840
Speaker 1: In time, these sprinters Sherlock Holmes, yeah or Fagan like

1237
01:06:46,520 --> 01:06:49,800
Speaker 1: having your a little hurry of kids. Yeah. Now with

1238
01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:54,720
Speaker 1: this exception that this is the problem here, he's molesting

1239
01:06:54,720 --> 01:06:59,400
Speaker 1: all of them. Um, well, I mean yeah, yeah, which

1240
01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:06,720
Speaker 1: Holmes rarely did. Um when he was under the influence

1241
01:07:06,760 --> 01:07:11,800
Speaker 1: of the solution. Yeah. So in time, like these kids

1242
01:07:11,800 --> 01:07:13,439
Speaker 1: are doing They're not just like running and getting people.

1243
01:07:13,440 --> 01:07:15,280
Speaker 1: They're doing stuff like he gets so lazy that they're

1244
01:07:15,280 --> 01:07:17,560
Speaker 1: like holding a phone up to his ear and ship

1245
01:07:17,680 --> 01:07:22,600
Speaker 1: like real decadent could leaders ship. Sprinters were rewarded with

1246
01:07:22,640 --> 01:07:25,240
Speaker 1: better treatment, with respect, and with an ability to whisper

1247
01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:28,440
Speaker 1: into the profit's ear about those on the colonial they disliked.

1248
01:07:28,800 --> 01:07:30,919
Speaker 1: But this came at a terrible cost, because of course

1249
01:07:31,120 --> 01:07:34,000
Speaker 1: Schaefer was molesting all of them. He kept them around

1250
01:07:34,040 --> 01:07:36,280
Speaker 1: him at all times. They followed him when he took

1251
01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:38,840
Speaker 1: his daily tour of the grounds, wearing a uniform he

1252
01:07:38,880 --> 01:07:41,680
Speaker 1: had picked out for them, loose athletic shorts with an

1253
01:07:41,680 --> 01:07:46,160
Speaker 1: elastic waistband. Obviously this is their uniform for reasons that

1254
01:07:46,160 --> 01:07:51,240
Speaker 1: should be unfortunately obvious, you know, for his very best sprinters,

1255
01:07:51,240 --> 01:07:54,360
Speaker 1: there was a special reward. His room included a child

1256
01:07:54,480 --> 01:07:56,640
Speaker 1: sized beds set up right next to his own bed.

1257
01:07:56,840 --> 01:07:59,400
Speaker 1: Sometimes more than one sprinter would sleep there. Sometimes he

1258
01:07:59,400 --> 01:08:01,920
Speaker 1: would drug with sedatives, washed them with a sponge, and

1259
01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:10,320
Speaker 1: sexually assault them. So oh, it's not getting better. It's

1260
01:08:10,320 --> 01:08:16,360
Speaker 1: not getting better. Yeah, expected, but it's a bleak one, Paul.

1261
01:08:16,840 --> 01:08:20,040
Speaker 1: It's what if the rougher ones we've had to talk about.

1262
01:08:21,640 --> 01:08:25,280
Speaker 1: Left wing candidate Salvador Allende was elected to be the

1263
01:08:25,439 --> 01:08:29,000
Speaker 1: you know, president of Chile in nineteen seventy, and he

1264
01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:31,280
Speaker 1: brought with him promises of socialism and a number of

1265
01:08:31,280 --> 01:08:35,200
Speaker 1: different reforms. This terrified Paul Shaffer, who considered Allende to

1266
01:08:35,240 --> 01:08:38,559
Speaker 1: be nothing more than the physical reincarnation of Joseph Stalin

1267
01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:42,160
Speaker 1: mixed with one presumes the literal Christian devil. He started

1268
01:08:42,200 --> 01:08:45,519
Speaker 1: marshaling his followers to prepare for an apocalyptic assault. They

1269
01:08:45,560 --> 01:08:48,560
Speaker 1: smuggled weapons in from Germany. Since the Colonial was a

1270
01:08:48,640 --> 01:08:52,599
Speaker 1: charitable organization, it's shipments were not stopped by customs. In

1271
01:08:52,600 --> 01:08:55,479
Speaker 1: this way, they smuggled in dozens of submachine guns, which

1272
01:08:55,520 --> 01:08:57,679
Speaker 1: they used as models so they could turn their machine

1273
01:08:57,720 --> 01:09:00,719
Speaker 1: shop to the task of reproducing dozens of yearly identical

1274
01:09:00,760 --> 01:09:04,200
Speaker 1: assault rifles. Over the years of illende short time in power,

1275
01:09:04,240 --> 01:09:08,320
Speaker 1: they acquired thousands of grenades, mortars, and even a handful

1276
01:09:08,360 --> 01:09:10,600
Speaker 1: of surface to air missile launchers. So now they have

1277
01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:14,960
Speaker 1: an army. Great, that's when this pedophile cult really needed

1278
01:09:15,000 --> 01:09:17,479
Speaker 1: to get cooking. Should have seen it come in surface

1279
01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:21,559
Speaker 1: to air missile launchers when when I heard about the hospital,

1280
01:09:21,560 --> 01:09:24,080
Speaker 1: I should have said, what's keeping that army? Yeah, what's

1281
01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:28,280
Speaker 1: what's keeping? So given what comes later, it's very likely

1282
01:09:28,280 --> 01:09:30,800
Speaker 1: that Colonia Dignidad was not just able to acquire this

1283
01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:33,560
Speaker 1: arsenal because the authorities didn't check the shipping of a

1284
01:09:33,680 --> 01:09:38,800
Speaker 1: charitable organization. The police and military hated Allende because he

1285
01:09:38,880 --> 01:09:41,920
Speaker 1: was left wing and likely had an arrangement with Shaefer.

1286
01:09:41,960 --> 01:09:44,240
Speaker 1: He may have en giving guns to right wing militant groups,

1287
01:09:44,320 --> 01:09:47,240
Speaker 1: we don't entirely know. In the early nineteen seventies, though

1288
01:09:47,360 --> 01:09:51,200
Speaker 1: Schaeffer starts planning a coup against Dillende. He brings in

1289
01:09:51,240 --> 01:09:54,400
Speaker 1: another Nazi to help him with the planning, and it's

1290
01:09:54,520 --> 01:09:58,320
Speaker 1: unclear to me if this coup attempt fed into the

1291
01:09:58,360 --> 01:10:00,960
Speaker 1: coup against Diende or was just a separate plan for

1292
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:03,000
Speaker 1: a co attempt, But as we've talked about a couple

1293
01:10:03,040 --> 01:10:05,320
Speaker 1: of times on the show, the CIA comes in, they

1294
01:10:05,360 --> 01:10:09,840
Speaker 1: give a right wing general like backing, and Augusto Pinochet,

1295
01:10:09,840 --> 01:10:13,439
Speaker 1: that right wing general, in September ninety three, takes power

1296
01:10:13,479 --> 01:10:16,120
Speaker 1: by extreme violence. I end A dies of a self

1297
01:10:16,120 --> 01:10:19,720
Speaker 1: inflicted gunshot wound um and for a week or so

1298
01:10:19,840 --> 01:10:22,240
Speaker 1: the scattered forces of the left fought in the street,

1299
01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:24,360
Speaker 1: but in very short order the country was under the

1300
01:10:24,439 --> 01:10:28,880
Speaker 1: military's control. Pinochet immediately declared a state of emergency. He

1301
01:10:28,920 --> 01:10:32,839
Speaker 1: suspended the constitution, he disbanded Congress, he banned political parties,

1302
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:36,280
Speaker 1: and he censored the press. Socialism was annihilated in Chile,

1303
01:10:36,439 --> 01:10:40,639
Speaker 1: which Paul Shaffer hailed as a victory against international communism.

1304
01:10:40,720 --> 01:10:43,320
Speaker 1: In the months that followed, Pinochet ordered at least forty

1305
01:10:43,360 --> 01:10:46,360
Speaker 1: five thousand people arrested and taken to detention centers to

1306
01:10:46,360 --> 01:10:50,000
Speaker 1: be interrogated and often tortured. More than fift hundred people

1307
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:52,080
Speaker 1: were killed this way in the first year of his reign.

1308
01:10:52,479 --> 01:10:55,200
Speaker 1: To facilitate all this, the general ordered the creation of

1309
01:10:55,200 --> 01:10:58,640
Speaker 1: the National Intelligence Directorate, where d I n A to

1310
01:10:58,760 --> 01:11:01,479
Speaker 1: act as a secret police force dedicated to maintaining his

1311
01:11:01,520 --> 01:11:04,080
Speaker 1: grip on power. But it's actually kind of hard to

1312
01:11:04,120 --> 01:11:05,720
Speaker 1: do that. Um, I don't know if you've ever tried

1313
01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:09,000
Speaker 1: to build a brutal intelligence apparatus from scratch, Paul. Not

1314
01:11:09,120 --> 01:11:11,479
Speaker 1: an easy task. It's it's really we're trying to do

1315
01:11:11,520 --> 01:11:15,280
Speaker 1: it now. It cools out. Media and Garrison and Chris

1316
01:11:15,439 --> 01:11:18,719
Speaker 1: barely understand how to attach a nipple to a car battery.

1317
01:11:18,840 --> 01:11:20,800
Speaker 1: I mean, are you terrible at it? Are you saying

1318
01:11:20,800 --> 01:11:24,120
Speaker 1: I shouldn't bother? No? No, I mean you gotta, you

1319
01:11:24,200 --> 01:11:27,519
Speaker 1: gotta try, Paul. You look, a journey of a thousand

1320
01:11:27,600 --> 01:11:31,920
Speaker 1: steps starts with one step, right, the journey of a

1321
01:11:31,960 --> 01:11:38,280
Speaker 1: thousand forty dissidents torture. You gotta start torturing, you know, Okay, okay, okay, yeah,

1322
01:11:38,360 --> 01:11:41,640
Speaker 1: you know what I need. Thank you, just trying to

1323
01:11:41,720 --> 01:11:45,959
Speaker 1: encourage you. I give up too easy, that's my problem. Yeah,

1324
01:11:46,000 --> 01:11:48,519
Speaker 1: I mean, that's why most people never get the kind

1325
01:11:48,680 --> 01:11:55,599
Speaker 1: of secret police force they deserve. So the good news

1326
01:11:55,800 --> 01:12:00,160
Speaker 1: for the fascists, the bad news, it's that the you know,

1327
01:12:00,280 --> 01:12:02,320
Speaker 1: the bad news for the fascists is that it's actually

1328
01:12:02,400 --> 01:12:04,040
Speaker 1: hard to find a lot of people who are willing

1329
01:12:04,080 --> 01:12:07,439
Speaker 1: to like torture folks to death, most folks, even most

1330
01:12:07,439 --> 01:12:10,080
Speaker 1: folks who were shitty are aren't up for that, you know,

1331
01:12:10,479 --> 01:12:13,639
Speaker 1: Like even among the people who are assholes, the people

1332
01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:16,320
Speaker 1: that want to do it, they really want to, really

1333
01:12:16,360 --> 01:12:18,960
Speaker 1: want to do it. And the great news for Pinochet

1334
01:12:19,040 --> 01:12:22,040
Speaker 1: is that there's this heavily armed Nazi commune full of

1335
01:12:22,080 --> 01:12:25,599
Speaker 1: psychopaths who have been torturing their own children. So they're

1336
01:12:26,080 --> 01:12:29,439
Speaker 1: psyched to torture people for the dictator, right like, they

1337
01:12:29,520 --> 01:12:32,120
Speaker 1: got no issue with that at all, And in very

1338
01:12:32,160 --> 01:12:35,439
Speaker 1: short order, Colonia Dignidon becomes one of Pinochet's most well

1339
01:12:35,560 --> 01:12:39,320
Speaker 1: used torture and execution sites. We're gonna talk more about

1340
01:12:39,360 --> 01:12:41,640
Speaker 1: that in part to Paul, But that's kind of a

1341
01:12:41,680 --> 01:12:43,800
Speaker 1: bummer note to end the episode on. And so in

1342
01:12:43,880 --> 01:12:47,280
Speaker 1: the interest of closing things out on a more upbeat note,

1343
01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:52,519
Speaker 1: I got a little story, Paul, A little story about

1344
01:12:52,560 --> 01:12:58,760
Speaker 1: Santa Claus. Alright. This comes from that article in the

1345
01:12:58,800 --> 01:13:03,120
Speaker 1: American Scholar, and um boy, howdy, Paul, I'm excited to

1346
01:13:03,160 --> 01:13:05,439
Speaker 1: read this one to you. Okay, now, this is this

1347
01:13:05,560 --> 01:13:08,720
Speaker 1: is We're ending on an up not that I would

1348
01:13:08,840 --> 01:13:11,439
Speaker 1: call it a high note, all right, because it's one

1349
01:13:11,479 --> 01:13:13,679
Speaker 1: of the craziest things I've heard about in my entire

1350
01:13:13,720 --> 01:13:18,400
Speaker 1: fucking life. Okay. No one inspired greater love and admiration

1351
01:13:18,439 --> 01:13:21,479
Speaker 1: among the children of the colonial than Santa Claus. It

1352
01:13:21,600 --> 01:13:24,120
Speaker 1: is said that in the days shortly before Christmas one

1353
01:13:24,200 --> 01:13:28,080
Speaker 1: year in the mid nineteen seventies, Schaffer gathered the colonials children,

1354
01:13:28,320 --> 01:13:30,360
Speaker 1: loaded them onto a bus, and drove them out to

1355
01:13:30,400 --> 01:13:33,559
Speaker 1: a nearby river, where he told them Santa was coming

1356
01:13:33,560 --> 01:13:36,640
Speaker 1: to visit. The boys and girls stood excitedly along the

1357
01:13:36,720 --> 01:13:39,040
Speaker 1: river bank while an older man in a fake beard

1358
01:13:39,080 --> 01:13:42,040
Speaker 1: in a red white suit floated towards them on a raft.

1359
01:13:42,600 --> 01:13:45,719
Speaker 1: Shaefer pulled a pistol from his belt and fired, seeming

1360
01:13:45,760 --> 01:13:48,519
Speaker 1: to wound Santa, who tumbled into the water, where he

1361
01:13:48,600 --> 01:13:52,479
Speaker 1: thrashed about before disappearing below the waves. It was a charade,

1362
01:13:52,760 --> 01:13:55,080
Speaker 1: but Shaffer turned to the children assembled before him and

1363
01:13:55,120 --> 01:13:57,800
Speaker 1: said that Santa was dead from the day forward. That

1364
01:13:57,880 --> 01:14:00,200
Speaker 1: day forward, Shaffer's birthday was the only hall it a

1365
01:14:00,320 --> 01:14:07,200
Speaker 1: celebrated inside Colonia. Dignit dot. He's so jealous of these

1366
01:14:07,280 --> 01:14:13,639
Speaker 1: kids attention that he literally murders Santa Claus and rivers. Sorry,

1367
01:14:14,080 --> 01:14:23,880
Speaker 1: that is that is extra I I I can't just

1368
01:14:26,120 --> 01:14:32,280
Speaker 1: I mean to to to have a brain. Yeah, that

1369
01:14:32,439 --> 01:14:40,600
Speaker 1: came up with that that comes up with that fucking idea, I,

1370
01:14:40,880 --> 01:14:45,439
Speaker 1: in a weird way, I have to respect it. Yeah yeah, yeah.

1371
01:14:45,479 --> 01:14:47,040
Speaker 1: It's like when you hear about like some of the

1372
01:14:47,160 --> 01:14:50,479
Speaker 1: like l Run Hubbard infiltrating the federal government more than

1373
01:14:50,520 --> 01:14:54,840
Speaker 1: the USSR ever did. It's like, God damn, it's not

1374
01:14:54,880 --> 01:15:00,960
Speaker 1: only not letting kids have Santa. Yeah, they didn't know

1375
01:15:01,040 --> 01:15:04,400
Speaker 1: he's dead. I gotta take this motherfucker out. I can't.

1376
01:15:04,439 --> 01:15:07,479
Speaker 1: I can't have him around. Drop this son of a bitch,

1377
01:15:07,720 --> 01:15:11,519
Speaker 1: this guy who doesn't exist, and it has to be

1378
01:15:11,600 --> 01:15:13,599
Speaker 1: the whole story that he told. There has to be that, like,

1379
01:15:13,760 --> 01:15:15,720
Speaker 1: well he flew over the colonials, so we shot him

1380
01:15:15,760 --> 01:15:20,000
Speaker 1: down with one of our sam's, executed him in the river.

1381
01:15:20,479 --> 01:15:26,240
Speaker 1: Jesus exactly. Yeah, they have to. They have to see

1382
01:15:26,280 --> 01:15:30,040
Speaker 1: it for tan't is a thing that's just told to kids.

1383
01:15:30,080 --> 01:15:33,640
Speaker 1: They believe. I have to. I can't trust that. I

1384
01:15:33,720 --> 01:15:40,600
Speaker 1: have to kill him. We are at behind the bastards

1385
01:15:40,680 --> 01:15:44,360
Speaker 1: kind of connoisseurs of like the extremes of the human condition.

1386
01:15:44,920 --> 01:15:47,360
Speaker 1: That's one of the wildest things I've ever heard of

1387
01:15:47,400 --> 01:15:56,400
Speaker 1: a human being doing. That is beyond rattlesnake assassination levels

1388
01:15:56,400 --> 01:16:03,880
Speaker 1: of like wild Miles Rio a level ship here, Shaffer's

1389
01:16:03,960 --> 01:16:09,240
Speaker 1: playing in the big leagues. Damn. Oh, I'm gonna say it.

1390
01:16:09,400 --> 01:16:11,639
Speaker 1: That's the one to beat. That's the one to beat.

1391
01:16:11,920 --> 01:16:17,920
Speaker 1: That's the one to beat. Yeah. Anybody can torture, anyone

1392
01:16:17,920 --> 01:16:22,800
Speaker 1: can assassinate. This is the one. This is like gold standard. Yeah,

1393
01:16:22,840 --> 01:16:26,439
Speaker 1: this is our new gold standard. Good luck, other criminally

1394
01:16:26,439 --> 01:16:30,519
Speaker 1: insane bad man. Yeah, you've got you've got quite quite

1395
01:16:30,520 --> 01:16:33,280
Speaker 1: a quite a thing to top here. If you're not,

1396
01:16:33,360 --> 01:16:38,240
Speaker 1: if you're not arranging Santa's assassin assassination in front of children,

1397
01:16:39,040 --> 01:16:41,559
Speaker 1: turn around and walk out that I had no time

1398
01:16:41,600 --> 01:16:47,679
Speaker 1: for you. I don't want to hear your story. Wow, oh, Paul,

1399
01:16:47,920 --> 01:16:50,040
Speaker 1: that is going to close us out for part one.

1400
01:16:50,479 --> 01:16:55,000
Speaker 1: That was a journey man. That was a journey Oh

1401
01:16:55,120 --> 01:16:58,639
Speaker 1: you were lying, okay, okay, from gouging his own eye

1402
01:16:58,640 --> 01:17:02,200
Speaker 1: out and tying a sheet murdering Santa Clause in front

1403
01:17:02,200 --> 01:17:06,240
Speaker 1: of an audience of children. What a fucking tale. We

1404
01:17:06,360 --> 01:17:11,400
Speaker 1: covered some ground, my man, Yes we did well, Paul.

1405
01:17:11,439 --> 01:17:14,679
Speaker 1: You got anything to plug? I will say. Um I

1406
01:17:14,720 --> 01:17:19,040
Speaker 1: did a show um this past Saturday called The Uncanny Hollow.

1407
01:17:19,080 --> 01:17:21,320
Speaker 1: I did a live show in um here in l

1408
01:17:21,360 --> 01:17:23,880
Speaker 1: a but it's available online. We we archived it, We

1409
01:17:23,920 --> 01:17:25,800
Speaker 1: filmed it and archived it, and if you'd like to

1410
01:17:25,840 --> 01:17:28,120
Speaker 1: see that, you can go to Dynasty typewriter dot com.

1411
01:17:28,160 --> 01:17:31,400
Speaker 1: It is a a sort of Twilight Zone ish sketch

1412
01:17:31,400 --> 01:17:34,280
Speaker 1: show that I did with an awesome cast and it

1413
01:17:34,360 --> 01:17:36,920
Speaker 1: was a blast. So, um yeah, go check that out

1414
01:17:36,920 --> 01:17:41,120
Speaker 1: on it sounds great. Yeah, those guys are the best,

1415
01:17:41,400 --> 01:17:45,280
Speaker 1: They're the best rad So check that out. Check Paul out,

1416
01:17:45,560 --> 01:17:51,160
Speaker 1: and don't move to Chile with a Nazi cult leader.

1417
01:17:51,240 --> 01:17:55,519
Speaker 1: I thought you were gonna say to him, Santa claud that.

1418
01:17:55,880 --> 01:17:58,920
Speaker 1: I mean, look, look, look I'm a Texan. So somebody

1419
01:17:58,920 --> 01:18:01,240
Speaker 1: comes into my home with asking you know, you gotta

1420
01:18:01,280 --> 01:18:04,639
Speaker 1: do what you gotta do. And on that note, that's

1421
01:18:04,800 --> 01:18:10,000
Speaker 1: part one. Oh boy, m hm