Speaker 1: Hi It Suckstion. We have a special bonus episode this
Speaker 1: week and it's from the team behind a new podcast
Speaker 1: called Big Take Asia. It's a look at the nuclear
Speaker 1: question in Japan and it was first published late last.
Speaker 2: Month Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News.
Speaker 3: Last winter, on a windy, chilly morning, Bloomberg's reporter Shoko
Speaker 3: Oda arrived in a tiny rural city called Kashiwazaki. It's
Speaker 3: on the western coast of Japan, surrounded by mountains and
Speaker 3: rice fields.
Speaker 2: And it's about a two hour bullet train ride from Tokyo,
Speaker 2: and it's known for heavy snow during the winter, so
Speaker 2: there's a lot of ski resorts. The other thing that
Speaker 2: it's really well known for is really good quality of rice,
Speaker 2: so there's a lot of sake brewers that are baking
Speaker 2: sake there as well.
Speaker 3: But Shoko wasn't there for skiing or sak tasting. She
Speaker 3: was invited to tour were the world's biggest nuclear power plant,
Speaker 3: known as kk SO.
Speaker 2: KK stands for Kashawazaki Katiwa and it's named after the
Speaker 2: two cities that it straddles over and it has seven
Speaker 2: nuclear reactors and it's also the world's biggest nuclear power
Speaker 2: plant with eight point two gigawatt capacity. If KK ran
Speaker 2: smoothly without any problems at a very conservative maintenance schedule,
Speaker 2: it would produce enough power for roughly thirteen million households
Speaker 2: in Japan.
Speaker 3: That's enough to power double the homes in Tokyo. Now,
Speaker 3: KK doesn't allow electronic devices in its facility, so Shoko
Speaker 3: couldn't record anything, but she walked us through her visit.
Speaker 2: You know, nuclear power plants are one of the most
Speaker 2: highly secured places in Japan. Lots of checkpoints. They also
Speaker 2: give you protective gear. And then we went inside the
Speaker 2: actual reactor. You had at number seven where we were
Speaker 2: taken to an observation deck and you could kind of
Speaker 2: see through the glass the operating floor where there's a
Speaker 2: spent nuclear fuel pool. That's where they keep the used fuel.
Speaker 2: There's lots of pipes and wires. Some places are quite small.
Speaker 2: You have to kind of walk through nooks and grannies
Speaker 2: to get to places. You feel like you're getting lost
Speaker 2: inside a complete maze, like a labyrinth.
Speaker 3: Go what was going through your head as you were
Speaker 3: walking through this power plant?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean it really hits you when you're inside
Speaker 2: the actual facility. Itself. Of course you follow the rolls
Speaker 2: on the protocol, but you know, it makes me wonder
Speaker 2: sometimes what happens if an earthquake strikes at that point?
Speaker 2: How will we be getting out of the facility in
Speaker 2: times like that? So that's something that crosses my mind
Speaker 2: whenever I'm at a nuclear power plant.
Speaker 3: Show Go's worry was once a living nightmare for about
Speaker 3: one hundred and twenty eight million people living in Japan.
Speaker 3: In twenty eleven, earthquake hit the east coast of the
Speaker 3: country and caused a meltdown as the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear
Speaker 3: power plant. That facility is owned by Tokyo Electric Power
Speaker 3: Company or TEPCO, which also owns KK. After Fukushima, Japan
Speaker 3: suspended operations of all its nuclear reactors. But now thirteen
Speaker 3: years later, the debate about restarting KK, the world's largest
Speaker 3: nuclear power plant, is heating up.
Speaker 2: I mean, Kashki Katiwa is incredibly symbolic. It's symbolic in
Speaker 2: the sense that it's the last nuclear power plot operated
Speaker 2: by TEPCO, the company responsible for the Fukushiba Daichi disaster.
Speaker 2: And if this world were to be able to restart,
Speaker 2: I think the Japanese government sees it as a positive
Speaker 2: thing that boosts sentiment to adopt more nuclear power use.
Speaker 2: So I think the government really is looking at it
Speaker 2: as a critical piece of the puzzle.
Speaker 3: Welcome to The Big Take Asia from Bloomberg News. I'm Wanha.
Speaker 3: Every week we take you inside some of the world's
Speaker 3: biggest and most powerful economies and the markets, tycoons, and
Speaker 3: businesses that drive this ever shifting region. Today on the show,
Speaker 3: will the world's biggest nuclear power plant get a Second Chance?
Speaker 3: Japan has a relatively long history of developing nuclear power.
Speaker 3: The country's first nuclear reactor began operating in nineteen sixty six.
Speaker 2: So Japan's always been resource scant. We import a lot
Speaker 2: of our energy needs from abroad. In the nineteen seventies,
Speaker 2: Japan was impacted by the oil shocks. That was one
Speaker 2: of the drivers for Japan then to turn to use
Speaker 2: of nuclear power because they thought that it's important to
Speaker 2: reduce dependency on imports energy. So at one point, Japan
Speaker 2: had a goal to boost nuclear power used to fifty
Speaker 2: percent of its power box by twenty thirty.
Speaker 3: With that goal, Japan boasted fifty four nuclear reactors throughout
Speaker 3: the country. In twenty eleven among the most globally and
Speaker 3: made nuclear energy a strategic priority, and it worked. At
Speaker 3: one point, nuclear was about a third of Japan's power
Speaker 3: mix until Fukushima.
Speaker 2: So in March eleven, twenty eleven, there was a massive
Speaker 2: earthquake and tsunami that struck northeastern coast of Japan.
Speaker 1: Already seen wives four meters high, that's thirteen feet.
Speaker 3: We saw houses being swept into rice fields there.
Speaker 2: Now, and these tsunami overwhelmed topcost Fukushima Daichi Nuclear Power Plant,
Speaker 2: and it led to a power loss and failure to
Speaker 2: cool down the nuclear reactors there, and it caused a meltdown.
Speaker 3: An evacuation was ordered less than an hour ago for
Speaker 3: residents that live within about two kilometers of a reactor
Speaker 3: in the prefecture of Fukushima. The Fukushima disaster is regarded
Speaker 3: as the worst nuclear accident since Chernobyl in nineteen eighty six.
Speaker 3: In the aftermath of Fukushima, Japan suspended operations of all
Speaker 3: of its fifty four nuclear reactors and permanently scrapped about
Speaker 3: a third of them.
Speaker 2: Fukushiba basically changed everything. The disaster really changed Japan's energy policy.
Speaker 2: Japan took all of its nuclear power plants offline to
Speaker 2: chuck for safety, and they also put in place a
Speaker 2: due regulatory framework that requires utilities to follow that process
Speaker 2: before they can bring nuclear reactors back online.
Speaker 3: Since Fukushima, Japan has restarted twelve nuclear reactors and five
Speaker 3: more are waiting to come back online pending additional approvals.
Speaker 3: That includes two reactors at KK. Shoko spoke with Raphael Grossi,
Speaker 3: Director General of the International Atomic Energy Agency. He thinks
Speaker 3: it's important for Japan to be able to rely on
Speaker 3: nuclear energy again.
Speaker 2: He thought that Japan has all these nuclear reactors sitting
Speaker 2: idle in the country, all of that capacity that's wasted,
Speaker 2: that's sitting there has potential to lower carbon emissions from
Speaker 2: coal and gas plants, but it's just the restart takes
Speaker 2: such a long time and it just remains there collecting dust.
Speaker 3: Today, Japan relies almost seventy percent of its power mix
Speaker 3: on imported fossil fuel like coal and liquefied natural gas,
Speaker 3: which makes Japan incredibly vulnerable to the swings in energy prices.
Speaker 2: So whenever there's a spike in let's say an LNG price,
Speaker 2: Japanese utilities get impacted. Then the same goes for like coal.
Speaker 2: On top of that, you know, the yen has been
Speaker 2: at historic weakness against the dollar, which makes it even
Speaker 2: more expensive for utilities to procure energy from abroad. Just
Speaker 2: to give a figure, Japan imported like twenty seven trillion
Speaker 2: yen of energy last year. That's about one hundred and
Speaker 2: seventy three billion dollars.
Speaker 3: One hundred and seventy three billion US dollars. That's more
Speaker 3: than what Japan made exporting cars last year. That big
Speaker 3: energy bill means there's little room for debate on why
Speaker 3: Japan needs a new way to power its four trillion
Speaker 3: dollar economy, and Shoko says the regional wars and conflicts
Speaker 3: in recent years made this need even more urgent.
Speaker 2: The invasion of Ukraine really had a big impact. After
Speaker 2: the invasion, you know, cobodity prices went flying through the roof,
Speaker 2: and Prime Minister Fumio Kishida explained that in order to
Speaker 2: achieve energy security but also achieve climate goals because nuclear
Speaker 2: can provide carbon free energy, the privateister himself said that
Speaker 2: Japan should restart as video of its reactors as possible,
Speaker 2: so long as it's passed the safety protocols, but also
Speaker 2: look into developing next generation reactors and trying to harness
Speaker 2: that technology more.
Speaker 3: There are other reasons why Japan wants to harness nuclear
Speaker 3: power more. For one, it wants to attract more semiconductor
Speaker 3: manufacturers like TSMC to make chips in Japan, and that's
Speaker 3: expected to increase electricity demand significantly. Plus there's also a
Speaker 3: move to revive nuclear power around the world.
Speaker 2: China has plans to roll out more nuclear power plants,
Speaker 2: there are talks in the US to try to bring
Speaker 2: some back online. Even developing countries or looking at nuclear power,
Speaker 2: including Bangladesh, India, So it's really not just a path,
Speaker 2: but every other country is looking at a tap energy
Speaker 2: US a way to secure energy.
Speaker 3: This year, Japan started a review of its national Energy
Speaker 3: Strategy to set a target for the country's power mix
Speaker 3: in the future. The current strategy says Japan will aim
Speaker 3: for nuclear to be up to twenty two percent of
Speaker 3: its power mix by the end of the decade. In
Speaker 3: fiscal twenty twenty two, nuclear accounted for just five percent
Speaker 3: of the energy mix, and next month, lawmakers and Nigatta,
Speaker 3: the prefecture where KK is based, will meet and likely
Speaker 3: consider whether to support a restart.
Speaker 2: I spoke with some of these lawmakers and they're very
Speaker 2: wary about restarting KK, and many have said that it's
Speaker 2: not the right time to be even discussing whether KK
Speaker 2: should be restarted or.
Speaker 3: Not after the break. What it takes to restart a
Speaker 3: nuclear reactor and the challenges ahead Shko. Earlier we talked
Speaker 3: about how Japan wants to restart the world's biggest nuclear
Speaker 3: power plant to tackle soaring energy costs. How do you
Speaker 3: even go about doing that? I mean, obviously it's not
Speaker 3: like restarting a computer. You're not just flipping a switch.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an incredibly complicated and long winded process. So basically,
Speaker 2: Japanese utilities have to submit a plan to the nation's regulator,
Speaker 2: and that's submitted to the Nuclear Regulation Authority and they
Speaker 2: check whether it matches the new framework that came into
Speaker 2: place after the Fukushiba disaster. Once that's approved, it goes
Speaker 2: back to the utility to conduct the necessary safety construction
Speaker 2: work at the power plant. And then on top of that,
Speaker 2: they also have to gain the blessing of the local
Speaker 2: governor of the town that the nuclear power plants in.
Speaker 3: And that blessing from the local governor it's not even
Speaker 3: a legal requirement. Technically, IDLED reactors just need regulators approval
Speaker 3: to restart. Companies like TEPCO typically seek consent from the
Speaker 3: local governor and assembly, but citizen lawsuits or protests can
Speaker 3: slow that down. For KK, two of its seven reactors
Speaker 3: have passed the required safety protocols, but Shoko says local
Speaker 3: lawmakers and residents in Nigata, where KK is located, don't
Speaker 3: seem excited about restarting a nuclear plant in their backyard.
Speaker 2: And the reason for that is Japan saw another earthquake
Speaker 2: on January first, and it happened to take place somewhere
Speaker 2: close to Nigata. It shook quite a lot in Nigatta.
Speaker 2: The lawmakers themselves that they saw a lot of people
Speaker 2: trying to evacuate and the roads were getting congested because
Speaker 2: everyone's trying to evacuate all at once. All of this
Speaker 2: gets compounded, and so they don't think the evacuation plan
Speaker 2: put in place is adequate enough. They don't think the
Speaker 2: road infrastructure is strong enough. And so I could really
Speaker 2: feel the temperature difference between the national government that's been
Speaker 2: very proactive and trying to promote nuclear energy versus the
Speaker 2: actual local government that's actually dealing with the risk of
Speaker 2: a potential disaster.
Speaker 3: And even if all these safety concerns are addressed, the
Speaker 3: residents in Nigata don't actually have much to gain from
Speaker 3: restarting KK.
Speaker 2: Tokyo Electric operates KK. That means, if Tokyo Electric were
Speaker 2: able to cut back off fossil fuel imports at lower
Speaker 2: power bills, all of that benefit goes to people like
Speaker 2: me living in Tokyo and the surrounding prefectures. Nigata is
Speaker 2: actually covered by a different utility, and so they don't
Speaker 2: get the benefit of, let's say a lower power bill.
Speaker 2: All they get is just the risks.
Speaker 3: A Bloomberg NEF report forecasts that TEPCO could resume operations
Speaker 3: at kk's Number seven reactor as soon as October. For now,
Speaker 3: there's no official target date, and for many Japanese today,
Speaker 3: the memory and trauma of Fukushima still loom large.
Speaker 2: Obviously, Japan is one of the most sizifically active places
Speaker 2: in the world. You know, every single time there's an earthquake,
Speaker 2: I as an energy reporter, the first thing that comes
Speaker 2: to my mind is, what's the closest nuclear power plant
Speaker 2: to where the earthquake took place, and so it's the
Speaker 2: key sticking point for people when they debate whether nuclear
Speaker 2: is safe or good or not. The Trade Minister once
Speaker 2: said that it takes years and years to gain trust
Speaker 2: and it only takes a second to lose that trust.
Speaker 2: That was his line to TEPCO, to make sure that
Speaker 2: they know that attentions on them and make sure that
Speaker 2: they need to do everything they can to gain that
Speaker 2: trust back from the public.
Speaker 3: Shoko. Despite the trauma of Fukushima, it seems that the
Speaker 3: reality and the needs on the ground are making people
Speaker 3: think differently about nuclear energy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think. I mean, it was a very traumatizing
Speaker 2: event for the country. But at the same time, it's
Speaker 2: been thirteen years and public sentiment toward nuclear in Japad
Speaker 2: has shifted, especially with the invasion of ukrative power bills
Speaker 2: going up. People started to kind of warm up to
Speaker 2: the idea of nuclear power because if that means lowering
Speaker 2: fuel imports and lowering power bills, and you know, why not.
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to The Big Take Asia podcast from
Speaker 3: Bloomberg News. I'm Wanha. This episode was produced by Yngyng,
Speaker 3: Naomi m, Jessica Beck, and Alex Suguiera. It was mixed
Speaker 3: by Blake Maples and fact checked by Naomi. It was
Speaker 3: edited by Bill Ferries and David Stringer. Naomi Shaven and
Speaker 3: Kim Gidtleson are our senior producers. Elizabeth Ponso is our
Speaker 3: senior editor. Nicole Beemster Bower is our executive producer. Sage
Speaker 3: Bauman is Bloomberg's head of podcasts. Please follow and review
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