WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 38 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:02.680 Hey, everybody. Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:06.400 you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode 0:00:06.480 --> 0:00:09.600 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:09.680 --> 0:00:13.440 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:15.960 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:17.919 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:20.119 there's gotta be nothing new here for you, but you 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:28.280 can make your own decisions. Greetings, this is it could 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:32.040 happen here. I'm Garrison Davis, and this episode I will 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:35.519 once again be talking about the Defend the Atlanta Force project. 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:40.680 Last month I released two episodes totally like three hours 0:00:40.680 --> 0:00:45.400 in content, uh, discussing the movement from its inception up 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:48.400 until the current state of affairs at time of recording, 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:52.760 which was like early May. If you want background on 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:58.640 this uh, really interesting and vital piece of resistance that's 0:00:58.680 --> 0:01:02.080 happening in Atlanta, Georgia, then I would recommend you at 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:06.240 least attempts to check out the Juggernaut of Audio, which 0:01:06.280 --> 0:01:10.520 is that too part a long story short. There's this 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:15.360 police training facility that the Atlanta Police Foundation and other 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:18.399 corporate interests in the city are trying to build on 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:22.480 one of the city's last remaining like massive swaths of 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:26.039 of a continuous forested land. On an adjacent piece of 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:29.520 forest at Land, a movie studio called Black Hall is 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:32.680 trying to expand their sound stage onto a whole other 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:36.279 section of the woods. The joint projects of the police 0:01:36.280 --> 0:01:39.679 training Facility dubbed Cops City and the Black Hall Studios 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:43.520 sound stage expansion threatened hundreds of acres of the largest 0:01:43.520 --> 0:01:46.960 continuous piece of the Atlantic Forest, located in southwest in 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:50.800 Decab County. The area is often referred to as the 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:54.080 Lungs of Atlanta and produces a massive amount of tree 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:58.320 canopy in the city and is a wonderful little ecological spot. 0:01:58.720 --> 0:02:01.840 I was lucky enough to visit in late April to 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:06.120 help in putting together those those two episodes, and a 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:07.920 lot of a lot a lot has happened since then. 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:12.239 Coming off the success of getting Reeves Young to cease 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:15.079 work on the Cops City project, I felt like there 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:18.560 was this sense of renewed optimism regarding the potential of 0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:22.680 actually winning. On the other hand, in just during the 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:26.160 week before the Week of Action, attempts by cops to 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:30.640 enter the forest increased and there was talk of increasing 0:02:30.639 --> 0:02:34.880 crackdowns against the forest offenders by local law enforcement, who 0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:38.959 also announced that they called in the FBI to assist them, 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:42.200 which leads us to the Week of Action. On the 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:46.480 morning of May nine, which was a Monday, barely a 0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:49.919 day into the Week of Action, a bulldozer was brought 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:54.160 into the Atlanta Forest. This is based on reporting by 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:57.359 the Great Folks at the Atlanta Community Press and other 0:02:57.440 --> 0:03:01.000 on the ground reports from forced offenders hosted by the 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:05.359 Defend the Atlanta Forest account and scenes dot no blogs. 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:11.000 So around nine thirty a m Monday morning, people inhabiting 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:14.400 the Wilani Forest woke up to the sounds of trees 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:18.840 going down and metal machinery. A bulldozer marked with Dodd 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:24.000 Drilling LLC, accompanied by to Decab County cops, had bulldozed 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:28.160 a path through the forested Entrenchment Creek Park, directly adjacent 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:31.360 to the old Atlanta Prison Farm. The park land is 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:35.400 currently under threat by the Black Hall Studios sound stage development. 0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:39.720 The Dodd Drilling bulldozer destroyed a significant swath of forests, 0:03:40.200 --> 0:03:44.880 injuring plants and animals in its path. When people learned 0:03:44.920 --> 0:03:49.760 about this, around forty folks quickly mobilized and gathered around 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:53.480 the bulldozer, confronting the project managers and the police officers 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:56.600 on the scene. Those gathered showed it at the workers 0:03:56.600 --> 0:03:59.360 and cops to go home and declared that this is 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:04.040 a public park. When the two Decab County police who 0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:07.160 were protecting the bulldozers were confronted, it was revealed that 0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:11.640 they were actually working as off duty uniformed private security, 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:16.080 seemingly taking orders from the construction management. The management, who 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:19.960 wore vests labeled Contour Engineering and Dot Phillips, claimed that 0:04:20.000 --> 0:04:22.880 they were not working for Black Hall Studios. Who who 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:25.000 knows if that's true or who they might be working 0:04:25.040 --> 0:04:28.640 for that Georgia state law does permit off duty police 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:32.320 officers to be hired, along with their uniforms, service weapons, 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:36.720 and vehicles, by private companies for their own purposes. The 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:39.200 police expressed that they were not aware that they were 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:42.720 in a public park along with the bulldozer they were protecting, 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:46.760 and faced with a confident group of responders intent on 0:04:46.880 --> 0:04:50.440 defending the forest from further destruction, police and the construction 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:53.400 management quickly made the decision to retreat from the woods. 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:58.240 The off duty cops had called in reinforcements from Decab County. 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:01.400 Seven more Decab County Leah calls showed up, but by 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:05.160 the time the extra police survived, workers were driving the 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:09.560 bulldozers back into the parking lot. The police were persuaded 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:12.920 to leave by the actions of intelligent people acting quickly 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:16.720 and collectively in defense of the land. The force defenders 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:20.080 then escorted the cops and the workers out of the 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:22.960 park and made sure the destruction of the woods had 0:05:23.040 --> 0:05:28.000 truly ceased. Police scanners reported that vehicles transporting the bulldozer 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:31.800 faced a brage of rocks and had their windshield smashed. 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:35.600 Entrenchment Creek Park is still a public park and property 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:40.200 of Decab County under a civil court injunction. The pending 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:44.680 case prevents construction or clearing by Black Hall Studios. Later 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:47.640 that same day, a group of around forty people marched 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:51.960 to the home of Shepherd Long, the principle of Long Engineering, 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:56.480 an engineering firm subcontracted to do surveying and other preconstruction 0:05:56.560 --> 0:06:01.520 work on the Atlanta Police Foundations Public Safety Training Center, 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:05.799 which we called Cops City. The group rallied for about 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:09.680 ten minutes outside Shepherd Lungs home and was demanding that 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:13.520 Long Engineering sever its contract with the Coup City Project. 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:16.719 One of the group members read aloud a statement directed 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:20.159 to Shephard Lung, which I will play the audio of here. 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:23.479 Atlanta is a city of forests with the most tree 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:26.440 coverage of any urban city in America. If you continue 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:29.120 to work with Brassfield and Gory, the entire city will 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:33.600 experience worse floods, higher temperatures at small Field afternoons. You 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:37.040 have the power to stop that. This proposed military training 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:39.920 compound is in the nucleus of a culturally rich Black 0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:44.280 community full of churches, preschools, and community centers. Dozens of 0:06:44.360 --> 0:06:46.960 children and grandparents have lived there for years. If you 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:50.039 continue to work with Brassfield and Gory, our streets and 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:53.920 backyards when we filled of shootings, explosions, and here gas, 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:56.599 where we want our children and neighbors to be able 0:06:56.640 --> 0:06:59.440 to breathe clean air and experience the vastness of the 0:06:59.480 --> 0:07:02.440 Atlanta for wris not to be victims of a domestic 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:05.719 war zone. You have the power to stop that. We 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:07.839 are here to fight for the future of our city, 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:12.200 our children, our neighbors, and our planet. We all no 0:07:12.360 --> 0:07:15.600 ill will towards you personally. We just want you to 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:19.000 make this one right decision. We no long Engineering has 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:22.520 many other contracts with many other companies. We are only 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:25.600 here to ask you to drop this one company, brass 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:28.800 Field and Glory, until they dropped their contracts with the 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:35.360 Atlanta Police Foundation. The group distributed flyers alerting neighbors to 0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:38.120 the work of Shepherd Long and what his company was 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:41.280 doing in De capp County. After about ten minutes, the 0:07:41.320 --> 0:07:45.000 group quickly dispersed without incident. The next day, there's a 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:47.360 lot of other events related to the Week of Action. 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:51.320 There was a security culture workshop and activist primer about 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:54.440 building a collective understanding of ways to keep us all 0:07:54.480 --> 0:07:57.880 safe from imprisonment the government repression. There was a night 0:07:58.080 --> 0:08:01.880 of hip hop and punk at a local radical venue 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:04.840 that served as a benefit show for the Forest Defense, 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:07.920 and other random events throughout the Week of Action included 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:11.680 stuff like clothing swaps, bike rides through the forest, yoga 0:08:11.800 --> 0:08:15.760 in the park, plus daily breakfast and dinners, history talks, 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:19.440 art parties, wood walks, skill shares, and a sick night 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:23.800 rave along with you know, forest tours and much more. So. 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:26.680 That's just two days of the Week of Action. Um 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:29.800 the Monday and the Tuesday, when we get back from 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:33.079 this ad break, I will get into what happened on 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:36.560 Wednesday and then and then Thursday. You know, we're going 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:40.160 to go through it linearly. Um, despite my criticisms of 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:42.480 linear time, we will go through this in a linear 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:46.920 fashion because that's how formatting this episode was easiest. Anyway, 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:50.640 here's some ads and we are back talking about the 0:08:50.679 --> 0:08:55.000 Defending Atlanta Forest Week of Action. So, just after ten 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:58.840 am on Wednesday, May eleven, to de Cab County Park 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:01.880 Police entered the forest to inspect the path created by 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:06.160 the bulldozer that previous Monday. As they were exiting the forest, 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:09.719 forest offenders ambushed them by throwing rocks and bottles at 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:14.400 their vehicles and smashing the cars windows. At noons like 0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:18.400 two hours later, a van marked law enforcement Department of 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:22.240 Juvenile Justice pulled up into the parking lot of Entrenchmant 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:25.280 Creek Park. It's worth noting that the area of Entrenchment 0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:29.480 Creek Park and the forested area on the Atlanta Prison 0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:34.800 Farm has like two child prisons on it. We talked 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:37.480 more about those in the in the two part series 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:43.360 from last month. But anyway, so this van marked Department 0:09:43.400 --> 0:09:46.120 of Juvenal Justice pulled up into the parking lot inside 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:49.000 in Trenchmant Creek Park, But an hour later, the van 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:52.160 was attacked suddenly by a brage of rocks and multiple 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:55.360 tires were slashed. The van attempted to escape, but was 0:09:55.440 --> 0:09:58.000 left stranded in the parking lot until the cab police 0:09:58.240 --> 0:10:01.800 were able to escort it out. Police were nervously walking 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:04.520 backwards in order to keep their eyes on the tree line, 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:07.760 where they knew forced defenders would be watching them at 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:12.280 every moment. Multiple police vehicles were damaged. Nobody was detained 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:15.520 or arrested. Portions of that report came from scenes dot 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:20.160 no blogs dot org. Earlier that same day, like early 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:23.600 in the morning, around forty people visited the home of 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:29.400 Keith Lanier Johnson Jr. In Kensaw, Georgia. Keith is the 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:33.520 Eastern Regional president of Brassfield and Gory. Brassfield and Gory 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:37.199 are the current general contractor on the Atlanta Police Foundations 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:41.360 Cops City Project. Flyers were posted around the neighborhood, past 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:45.840 the low barrier fencing around the gated community. An anonymous 0:10:45.880 --> 0:10:49.320 statement released online at scenes dot no blogs read quote 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:52.120 now that Keith is no longer busy on the board 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:55.440 of the Mount Perrin Christian School. It seems he is 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:58.360 now managing the one hundred and forty two thou dollars 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:01.720 of fines levied against his employer for safety and wage 0:11:01.760 --> 0:11:05.480 theft violations. He's also overseeing the destruction of grave sites, 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:09.560 leveling of a vital tree canopy, and the militarization of 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:12.880 the American Police Force. It is for those reasons that 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:16.440 community members went to his home at six am. We 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:18.880 hope that Keith is able to convince the two owners 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:22.960 currently sitting comfortably back at home in Birmingham, that the 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:26.800 current Atlanta Police Foundation contract is untenable and there is 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:29.840 an urgent need to cancel it. It could turn out 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:33.120 that Keith personally is carrying to brunt the pressure for 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:36.840 his boss's decisions. Brassfield and Gory will eventually drop the 0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:40.840 Cop City project. Anonymous groups are developing new methods for 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:45.800 disincentivizing the project. The next day, on May twelve, a 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:50.839 tightly packed crowd around eight mask protesters converged on the 0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:55.240 Brassfield and Gory Atlanta office in broad daylight. People holding 0:11:55.280 --> 0:11:58.880 banners and launching fireworks arrived at the building, and force 0:11:58.920 --> 0:12:02.480 defenders covered the side of the office with stop Cops 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:06.240 City graffiti and chanting will be back as they left. 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:10.080 Unicorn Riot reported that five people were arrested following the 0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:14.320 action and booked on several charges, including some felonies. Charges 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:18.120 were including riot and criminal damage to property and quote 0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:22.240 terroristic threats and acts. I know that some but possibly 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:25.960 not all, people's charges got dropped, and the listed bond 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:29.480 amount for some individuals was extremely high, getting up to 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:33.960 around fifty dollars just for an individual. Nearing the end 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:37.280 of the week of action, on Saturday May eleven, a 0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:40.360 march to Defend the Forest took the streets in East 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:44.200 Atlanta Village, led by local preschoolers. There were some really 0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:47.480 nice signs and artwork done by kids. The Defend the 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:51.440 Forest twitter account posted some beautiful photos of kids protests. 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:57.360 Signs that says forest is life and love you trees stop, 0:12:57.679 --> 0:13:02.559 never cut down the trees aloged with very very good art. 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:07.600 It was very very pleasant to see. A Few hours later, 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:10.560 another march to Atlanta at the top Cops City drew 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:15.160 around two hundred protesters. After about an hour of marching, 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:17.719 the crowd returned to Freedom Park, where they were then 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:21.440 attacked by police without warning. Dozens of cop cars pulled 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:25.760 up and police helicopters loomed overhead. Armored cops were arresting 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:29.320 people on the sidewalks for marching on the streets, for 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:32.320 playing drums, or for just standing in the wrong place. 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:37.760 Atlanta police and Georgia State Patrol officers assaulted, shoved, and 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:41.959 tackled multiple people, deployed tasers, and threatened neighbors who filmed 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:45.439 the arrests. One person violently arrested was taken to the 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:50.040 hospital for treatment. To defend the forest twitter account posted 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:53.880 quote at least seventeen arrests to night by Atlanta Police Department. 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:58.199 Spirits high as the forest raves and the encampment grows 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:02.480 outside the forest, men stand vigil at the jail, welcoming 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:06.360 arrestees as they are released. We are strong together. The 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:10.600 forest unites us. The cops cannot divide us. Atlanta police 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:14.079 say that the march was in violation of pedestrian laws, 0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:16.840 which is why they charged and start of assaulting people 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:20.880 on the sidewalk. And that wraps up some of the 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:23.240 week of action stuff. I know there was a lot 0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:26.200 more things that happened, but trying to crime it all 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:30.000 into a tight package was challenging. So that that was 0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:34.760 the general general week week of action vibes. But there 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:37.200 is there's more. We still we still have like half 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:40.480 the episode to go because a lot, a lot else 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:45.600 has happened in in the days since then. In the 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:49.760 early morning on Monday May sixteen, a week after the 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:53.480 bulldozer descended on the forest, accompanied by off duty cops 0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:57.040 acting as security, a home associated with Dodd Drilling LLC. 0:14:57.440 --> 0:15:02.480 Was painted with slogans including Dodd Rilling, stay out, stop cops, city, 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:06.280 and drop a p D. A message for the homeowner 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:09.800 associated with Drilling was released, which you can read the 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:12.760 full version of online at scenes dot no blog dot org. 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:17.280 I'll read some portions of it here. Quote. Last Monday, 0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:19.920 a bulldozer with your logo forced its way into the 0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:22.840 Wolani Forest and left one hundred foot trail of destruction 0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:26.840 in its wake. Forced defenders responded quickly with rocks and rage, 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:30.440 but some damage was already done. Despite having no permit, 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:34.239 you allowed Atlanta Police to use your equipment to intimidate 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:37.280 and injure the forest and its residents. Today, you know 0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:40.160 what it's like to have your space invaded. You came 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:43.520 into our home, so we came to yours. Your private 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:46.360 property is not as private as you may think. We 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:48.400 demand that you stay out of the Wolani Forest and 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:52.280 stop working with Atlanta Police and Cops City contractors. To 0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:56.200 all others who would support Cops City, it might have 0:15:56.320 --> 0:16:00.960 more costs than you anticipate, financial and other wise. Many 0:16:01.040 --> 0:16:04.000 creatures care deeply about this forest and are prepared to 0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:07.000 defend it. Any partner of the A p D or 0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:11.120 contractor for Cops City is our enemy and a potential target. 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:14.680 The Wulani Forest is not dying, it is being killed, 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:17.240 and those who are killing it have names and addresses. 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:20.880 A list of local Atlanta evil doers is available at 0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:25.760 stop reeves young dot com. The next day, on Tuesday, 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:30.160 May seventeenth, Atlanta police, backed by other state and federal 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:34.320 law enforcement, including the CAB Police, Georgia State Patrol, the 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:38.280 Georgia Bureau of Investigation, and the FBI, raided the South 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:41.960 Atlanta Forest. The raid came just days after the Week 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:44.400 of Action, which brought hundreds to the Atlanta Forest to 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:49.560 participate in workshops, plant gardens, watch films, and protest at 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:54.240 the homes of developers plotting the forests destruction. Shortly after 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:58.160 the scheduled events ended, police gathered their forces to raid 0:16:58.280 --> 0:17:02.760 the forest encampment. Police started staging at around nine am 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:07.600 on Tuesday and started coming in at around ten am. 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:11.920 Force defenders started mobilizing and calling for support. Cops blocked 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:14.800 off the roads leading to the forest access points and 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:18.560 told drivers stuck at the blockade that quote were opening 0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:23.280 up the site for construction. Soon, cops started arresting protesters 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:26.960 that gathered in Entrenchment Creek Park and towed any car 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:31.280 on the streets outside of the park. Helicopter circled the forest, 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:34.520 trying to track the movement of forest offenders under the 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:38.920 cover of the tree canopy. Police near occupied trees were 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:43.160 heard talking about quote flushing out people inside tree houses 0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:46.639 in the face of militant resistance. Police did manage to 0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:51.200 cut down trees and destroyed multiple treehouses, destroyed force defenders, 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:54.840 personal belongings, and other protest infrastructure set up by the 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:58.399 land defenders, all in an effort to allow contractors to 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:01.679 begin development of the ninety million in dollar Cops City project. 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:05.760 On Twitter, they defend the Atlanta Forest account posted quote 0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:09.040 reports that the Atlanta Police and Georgia State Patrol are 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:11.960 chainsawing in an area of the old Atlanta prison farm 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:15.480 where people have occupied trees to defend the forest. Dozens 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:18.199 of forest defenders moving in groups all over the woods 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:22.800 throughout the raid. No arrests inside the forest reported so far, 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:27.200 only from the perimeter at the public park. Police seem 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:31.520 unwilling to pursue people through the forest. Swat rifles trained 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:35.879 on forest defenders occupying a treehouse to stop Cops City. 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:39.080 The Defend the Forest twitter account also posted a video 0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:42.680 of a semitruck packed full of building supplies headed into 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:46.400 the north boundary of the proposed Cops City site where 0:18:46.440 --> 0:18:50.280 police were raiding the forest defense occupation. I'm gonna do 0:18:50.320 --> 0:18:52.960 a little quote from Unicorn and Riot, who reported on 0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:56.919 the police raid. Quote. According to police, those committed to 0:18:56.960 --> 0:18:59.879 defending the forest put up a fight, pelting the officers 0:18:59.880 --> 0:19:02.680 with rocks, and what appeared to be a Molotov cocktail 0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:05.920 was deployed along a fence line. In the wake of 0:19:05.960 --> 0:19:09.280 the raid, a truck barricade constructed months ago to protect 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:12.840 those occupying the forest from police incursions showed signs of 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:16.320 having being set on fire. Flaming barricades are a common 0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:19.040 tactic used by protesters around the world. To push back 0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:23.800 against police unquote. Eventually, police let media enter a small 0:19:23.880 --> 0:19:27.800 contained area on the other side of the blockade. Police 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:29.879 wanted to talk with the multiple press outlets that had 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:32.800 gathered near the site in an attempt to gain control 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:37.360 of the media narrative. Atlanta Police Deputy Chief sheer Bomb, Yes, 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:39.600 that's how I'm pronouncing it. I've no idea has actually said, 0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:42.560 but I think it's sheer Bomb held an interview staged 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:46.399 by the Public Affairs Office. Overall, the goal seemed to 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:48.880 be to control the media narrative by painting police as 0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:51.919 the heroes and the protesters as a very small group 0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:56.200 of outside agitators. After getting the statement from police, most 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:58.960 media left the scene. While the blockades were still up 0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:02.880 on both sides of the forest access road. Deputy Chief 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:06.560 sheer Bomb said that police escorted contractors into the forest 0:20:06.840 --> 0:20:10.919 and preliminary work was being done. Police later specified that 0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:13.600 they were at this site to a company contractors tasked 0:20:13.640 --> 0:20:17.360 with removing some temporary illegal structures that were set up 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:22.080 by protesters, and that quote no one was hurt. Media 0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:25.520 framed the raid and subsequent arrests as the police cracking 0:20:25.560 --> 0:20:30.639 down on a group of violent outside agitators cops giving 0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:33.199 statements like quote, we will not be deterred by the 0:20:33.240 --> 0:20:36.000 acts of a few that do not represent our community, 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:39.800 and with local news covering the incident like quote several 0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:43.240 protesters who are arrested after they threw a molotov cocktail 0:20:43.320 --> 0:20:47.080 at police as officers raided a camp on the grounds 0:20:47.119 --> 0:20:52.000 of the planned Atlanta Police Departments training facility unquote, even 0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:55.480 though the arrests took place in a completely different section 0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:58.399 of the woods, where protesters were gathered openly in a 0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:02.840 public park and actually happened before the cocktail was thrown. 0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:05.679 Yet there was a lot of attempts to link the 0:21:05.800 --> 0:21:09.960 arrests to them altof cocktail. But you know, media media 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:13.080 just do that, and they gobbled up the story of 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:17.000 of the of the cocktail and of the outside agitators 0:21:17.040 --> 0:21:22.240 attacking Atlanta police and it's not representing our community. Eight 0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:25.920 people were arrested and faced charges ranging from criminal trespassing 0:21:26.119 --> 0:21:29.960 to police obstruction. Despite attempts by police to paint the 0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:34.080 movement as the work of quote outside agitators, while also 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:37.439 working alongside of growing list of out of town law 0:21:37.520 --> 0:21:42.440 enforcement organizations, the movement to Oppose Cops City has been 0:21:42.640 --> 0:21:47.119 directly rooted within a broad localized opposition, whether that be 0:21:47.359 --> 0:21:51.439 with Atlanta based organizations fighting against gentrification, local chapters of 0:21:51.520 --> 0:21:55.719 climate change protest organizations, or just anonymous individuals that reside 0:21:55.760 --> 0:21:59.520 across Atlanta, or the indigenous people who have incestral connections 0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:02.480 to the land. And hours after the raid, there was 0:22:02.720 --> 0:22:06.920 a Atlanta community press conference put on at Entrenchment Creek Park, 0:22:07.480 --> 0:22:10.320 and I'm going to read a statement that somebody gave 0:22:10.720 --> 0:22:13.720 at the press conference. Quote, this is an attempt to 0:22:13.800 --> 0:22:17.520 demoralize a vibrant and diverse movement led by local community 0:22:17.520 --> 0:22:20.960 members against the replacement of the largest urban tree canopy 0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:24.280 in the United States with the largest police training compound 0:22:24.320 --> 0:22:27.080 in the United States. The police will attempt to depict 0:22:27.160 --> 0:22:30.080 this movement as a small group of hard line activists. 0:22:30.800 --> 0:22:33.360 We are all neighbors of the forest. We are intelligent 0:22:33.400 --> 0:22:35.560 people who know that the future of the world is 0:22:35.640 --> 0:22:39.080 on fire, and who are determined to act and to 0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:42.399 defend what remains to sustain life in this city and 0:22:42.480 --> 0:22:45.919 on this planet. The city is only going to get hotter, 0:22:46.200 --> 0:22:48.879 wrench is only going to get more expensive. Food and 0:22:48.880 --> 0:22:52.439 gas prices are only rising. The city has no answers 0:22:52.480 --> 0:22:55.520 for this, except for a more militarized police force. You 0:22:55.560 --> 0:22:59.280 can't prop up a free society with violence alone. The 0:22:59.320 --> 0:23:03.280 next day, protesters from Saturday's Stop Cop City march had 0:23:03.480 --> 0:23:08.240 court and all of their charges were dropped. Atlanta police 0:23:08.320 --> 0:23:12.639 is just desperate to get a good boogeyman to blame 0:23:13.000 --> 0:23:17.040 any potential uprising on, and they're not being super successful 0:23:17.040 --> 0:23:19.919 and letting any of these charges stick. There was this 0:23:19.920 --> 0:23:22.760 really great point made by this person named Audi Khali 0:23:23.119 --> 0:23:25.480 and was going to quote from a thread they posted quote. 0:23:25.520 --> 0:23:28.840 Thirty seven arrests were made in relation to the decentralized 0:23:28.920 --> 0:23:32.360 Defend the Atlanta Force movement over the past weeks, mostly 0:23:32.480 --> 0:23:36.240 for made up jaywalking charges, but only twelve had their 0:23:36.280 --> 0:23:39.879 legal identities revealed to corporate media and right wing doctors. 0:23:40.480 --> 0:23:44.760 Why all twelve protesters who were docked these past couple 0:23:44.760 --> 0:23:47.320 of weeks were said to be from out of state. 0:23:47.920 --> 0:23:52.440 When journalists asked if other protesters had Georgia residences, answers 0:23:52.440 --> 0:23:56.679 were denied. The answer to why is simple. These twelve 0:23:56.800 --> 0:24:00.600 currently possessed out of state I das and appeared white passing. 0:24:01.040 --> 0:24:05.200 The other twenty four arrestees might not necessarily fit these categories. 0:24:05.560 --> 0:24:08.119 Noticed that right wing troll and you know, amitted the 0:24:08.160 --> 0:24:10.840 ages of the arrestees who are not in their twenties 0:24:10.880 --> 0:24:13.800 as well. This is yet another iteration of the outside 0:24:13.880 --> 0:24:18.000 educator and narrative and an attempt to delegitimize resistance while 0:24:18.040 --> 0:24:22.600 denying local agency unquote. Police are continuing to target stop 0:24:22.600 --> 0:24:26.280 copsy of protesters with extremely high bales. Just getting nine 0:24:26.359 --> 0:24:31.360 protesters released during one week cost over a hundred thousand dollars. 0:24:31.400 --> 0:24:34.440 So please if you're able to consider donating to the 0:24:34.480 --> 0:24:38.959 Atlanta Solidarity Fund, there will will be links in the description. 0:24:39.720 --> 0:24:42.200 So that was the raid that took place a few 0:24:42.200 --> 0:24:46.200 weeks ago. Six tree houses were destroyed. And those tree 0:24:46.200 --> 0:24:48.639 houses weren't just like tree sets to defend the forest, 0:24:48.680 --> 0:24:51.160 as were also like people's homes like that that that's 0:24:51.160 --> 0:24:54.880 where people were living. Uh so six six of those 0:24:54.880 --> 0:25:00.000 were destroyed, multiple force defenders, personal belongings were stolen or 0:25:00.000 --> 0:25:04.840 are just dismantled and decimated by the cops. And overall 0:25:04.960 --> 0:25:07.280 the raid was pretty bad. I mean, it's it kind 0:25:07.320 --> 0:25:10.119 of it kind of sucked. We will talk about what 0:25:10.160 --> 0:25:13.000 has happened since the raid when we come back from 0:25:13.040 --> 0:25:17.879 a little at break all right, we are back after 0:25:17.920 --> 0:25:22.000 the raid. Officers from Atlanta Police Departments Zone three Field 0:25:22.040 --> 0:25:27.360 Investigations Team discussed using deadly force against protesters if they 0:25:27.600 --> 0:25:31.560 used molotov cocktails to defend themselves from a raid. According 0:25:31.600 --> 0:25:35.760 to scanner audio publicized by activists, listen closely for like 0:25:35.800 --> 0:25:39.879 thirty seconds to hear their conversation discussing deadly force. The 0:25:40.040 --> 0:25:42.200 good thing we didn't get out the damnal today. I 0:25:42.240 --> 0:25:46.040 don't do well with fire. Oh yeah, right, howld you 0:25:46.200 --> 0:25:50.880 deadly force encounter? Wait? Whatever doing with fire? That's why 0:25:50.880 --> 0:25:53.000 I brought it up. I was saying, as long as 0:25:53.040 --> 0:25:58.399 we're all that they paid the deadly fourth encounter, you liar, 0:26:01.440 --> 0:26:09.800 ro cop bails them at the road pure the treehouse 0:26:09.840 --> 0:26:13.280 they had up, they had cars like on it, people 0:26:13.440 --> 0:26:22.840 coming in a protest against copy. Sure, So I'm just 0:26:22.840 --> 0:26:25.160 gonna reread one little section in case it was hard 0:26:25.160 --> 0:26:29.000 to hear. Quote, I told you deadly force encounter. That's 0:26:29.000 --> 0:26:30.520 why I brought it up. As long as we're on 0:26:30.560 --> 0:26:33.280 the same page, I'm atop cocktail is the deadly force 0:26:33.440 --> 0:26:37.880 encounter unquote. So a deadly force encounter is a situation 0:26:37.880 --> 0:26:41.160 where officers are legally allowed to shoot to kill. Basically, 0:26:41.160 --> 0:26:43.920 what this scanner audio ins anuates is that police are 0:26:44.040 --> 0:26:47.880 preparing or thinking about just killing people when multov cocktails 0:26:47.920 --> 0:26:51.400 are deployed. So that's a thing. Also, it's a little 0:26:51.440 --> 0:26:55.760 interesting that police themselves referred to the project as cops City. 0:26:55.840 --> 0:26:58.280 But yeah, keeping track of scanner audio has been a 0:26:58.280 --> 0:27:02.320 big part of the not on the ground portion of 0:27:02.359 --> 0:27:05.879 the movement is being all to track police communications, police 0:27:05.920 --> 0:27:11.000 locations all using open source information, and tops are really 0:27:11.119 --> 0:27:13.560 scared and paranoid when it comes to stuff around the 0:27:13.640 --> 0:27:16.640 forest and just don't seem to be able to grasp 0:27:16.720 --> 0:27:20.200 the idea of a decentralized resistance movement that is capable 0:27:20.280 --> 0:27:23.800 of a diversity of tactics, including militant ones. There's this 0:27:24.119 --> 0:27:29.919 other scanner audio that was released displaying Atlanta police's ignorance, cowardice, 0:27:30.000 --> 0:27:33.480 and paranoia related to what they believe is a group 0:27:33.680 --> 0:27:38.040 dubbed Black Flag Atlanta. You guys gotta be carefully had 0:27:38.080 --> 0:27:41.359 a um to the cab jobs are sitting in the 0:27:41.440 --> 0:27:44.760 van and they they attacked the van or you know, 0:27:44.840 --> 0:27:47.160 knocking windows out with flatting attires and stuff. But they're 0:27:47.160 --> 0:27:49.960 supposed to be a group called a Black Flag Atlanta 0:27:50.880 --> 0:27:53.199 that are targeting police and they have an app and 0:27:53.200 --> 0:27:56.600 stuff back can monitor our vehicles and shows about patrol 0:27:56.640 --> 0:28:02.240 cars are sitting at with lab updates. You know, you know, 0:28:02.560 --> 0:28:04.640 you know, they could be dropping the fans pointing something 0:28:04.880 --> 0:28:08.080 or you know, sort of trap or damaged property and 0:28:08.119 --> 0:28:11.199 shout in the range you said, they gotta what's the 0:28:11.240 --> 0:28:13.920 name of that? I just pulled back around find it. 0:28:14.000 --> 0:28:17.679 But the group is called black Flag Atlanta, So the 0:28:17.920 --> 0:28:21.720 so called group that police refer to as black Flag 0:28:21.760 --> 0:28:26.639 Atlanta is likely just referring to a hobbyist website that 0:28:26.760 --> 0:28:31.240 simply collects on the ground reports and open source police 0:28:31.320 --> 0:28:35.400 scanner information. The website is an open resource for anyone 0:28:35.640 --> 0:28:38.480 to use. It's not a group of people. It's just 0:28:38.960 --> 0:28:42.959 a random online tool that lets you listen to scanner audio. 0:28:43.640 --> 0:28:47.240 The cops mentioned that they're afraid because of the actions 0:28:47.360 --> 0:28:50.680 of some anonymous individuals who surrounded a law enforcement vehicle 0:28:50.960 --> 0:28:54.240 and damaged it while officers were inside just sitting terrified, 0:28:54.720 --> 0:28:57.160 and then did the same to a juvenile detention facility. 0:28:57.200 --> 0:29:01.120 Van I discussed the details of that direct action earlier 0:29:01.160 --> 0:29:03.920 in this episode, when anonymous people through rocks and slash 0:29:04.000 --> 0:29:08.080 tires of those law enforcement vehicles. Quoting from an anonymous 0:29:08.080 --> 0:29:11.240 statement on scenes dot no blogs, quote, the cops believe 0:29:11.360 --> 0:29:14.120 that Black Flag Atlanta is a group that tracks and 0:29:14.200 --> 0:29:17.640 monitors cops and their locations around the forest and works 0:29:17.680 --> 0:29:21.560 to attack them. This is laughably wrong. Rather than understanding 0:29:21.600 --> 0:29:25.120 that our power comes from open source intelligence, horizontal organizing, 0:29:25.280 --> 0:29:29.080 and transparency, they have conjured up a shadowy organization that 0:29:29.240 --> 0:29:34.760 organizes hits on police officers and publishes their targets right beforehand. Unquote. 0:29:35.960 --> 0:29:38.120 Cops really just don't seem to have a clue on 0:29:38.160 --> 0:29:42.600 what's what's actually going on um or how any types 0:29:42.640 --> 0:29:48.560 of decentralized infrastructure works, or how movements are really operated. 0:29:50.240 --> 0:29:52.760 It is an interesting thing to see. But scared cops 0:29:53.160 --> 0:29:56.560 are also dangerous cops. As we just mentioned about them 0:29:56.600 --> 0:30:00.000 planning to use lethal force if there's a multip cocktail 0:30:00.080 --> 0:30:03.440 in the area right when cops are scared. That's not 0:30:03.520 --> 0:30:07.040 necessarily always a good thing. Um. It just you know, 0:30:07.520 --> 0:30:11.360 a lot of police training is based on being afraid 0:30:11.880 --> 0:30:15.080 and then using deadly force if you are afraid. So 0:30:15.680 --> 0:30:18.360 it's just a thing to think about. I'm not I'm 0:30:18.360 --> 0:30:22.000 not I'm not making any like commentary here, I'm just saying, yeah, 0:30:22.120 --> 0:30:24.960 cops seem really scared, and that can be good. It 0:30:25.040 --> 0:30:27.760 also can be dangerous. I'm now going to talk a 0:30:27.760 --> 0:30:31.520 bit about solidarity actions, because you know, not everyone's able 0:30:31.560 --> 0:30:33.920 to go to Atlanta, even if even if they would 0:30:33.920 --> 0:30:35.800 like to go to Land and help help participate, some 0:30:35.880 --> 0:30:38.520 people just aren't able to. But that doesn't mean people 0:30:38.520 --> 0:30:42.479 are unable to assist in the movement. I'm gonna do 0:30:42.520 --> 0:30:45.920 a little quote from Unicorn riot quote. In recent weeks, 0:30:45.960 --> 0:30:49.120 autonomous attacks in solidarity with efforts to defend the Atlanta 0:30:49.160 --> 0:30:52.440 Forest have occurred throughout the country, according to a website 0:30:52.480 --> 0:30:56.440 that tracks such actions, One repeated target has been at 0:30:56.520 --> 0:31:00.320 Las Technical Consultants, the apparent company of Long and Airing, 0:31:00.360 --> 0:31:03.640 a subcontractor of the cop City project, which had its 0:31:03.680 --> 0:31:09.080 windows of its office smashed in Albany, New York, in Minneapolis, Minnesota, 0:31:09.480 --> 0:31:13.520 and it's building tag with the graffiti in Highland, Indiana. 0:31:13.680 --> 0:31:16.640 The website also received reports of attacks on Bank of America, 0:31:16.800 --> 0:31:19.800 which donates money to the police foundations across the country, 0:31:20.040 --> 0:31:24.360 including the Atlanta Police Foundation. Attacks were reported in Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, 0:31:24.600 --> 0:31:28.600 Portland's Enemy Appolis unquote, and I'm going to just go 0:31:28.680 --> 0:31:31.880 through a list of solidarity actions that have happened in 0:31:32.000 --> 0:31:36.000 May and now up into June. Most of these were 0:31:36.040 --> 0:31:38.880 posted on scenes dot no blogs that seems to be 0:31:38.960 --> 0:31:43.479 the main site for anonymously posting communication or report backs. 0:31:44.080 --> 0:31:45.800 You can find guides to how to do so with 0:31:45.960 --> 0:31:49.720 more Internet security on websites like scenes and websites like 0:31:49.800 --> 0:31:52.880 Warrior up. So anyway, here's just a list of little 0:31:52.880 --> 0:31:55.720 communications that have been released related to solidarity actions that 0:31:55.720 --> 0:31:58.880 have taken place in the past month. Quote. On the 0:31:58.960 --> 0:32:01.880 evening of May to I smashed seven windows at the 0:32:01.920 --> 0:32:05.720 office building where the northeast offices of Atlas are located 0:32:05.720 --> 0:32:10.080 in Albany, New York. I also tagged Atlas stopped destroying 0:32:10.120 --> 0:32:14.280 the Atlanta Forest, destroying concience of acres of forest during 0:32:14.320 --> 0:32:17.600 the sixth greatest mass extinction of species. To build a 0:32:17.640 --> 0:32:21.080 police training facility following one of the largest anti police 0:32:21.120 --> 0:32:25.160 uprisings in decades is fucking disgusting with his vandalism. I 0:32:25.320 --> 0:32:27.600 urge Atlas to do the right thing and to drop 0:32:27.680 --> 0:32:31.080 any contracts with Brassfield and Gory and the Cops City Project. 0:32:32.280 --> 0:32:34.480 During the week of Action, the brass Field and Gory 0:32:34.560 --> 0:32:38.360 Corporate HQ in Birmingham, Alabama was targeted. According to a 0:32:38.520 --> 0:32:42.800 strongly worded anonymous statement published on scenes. The report back 0:32:42.920 --> 0:32:46.200 reads quote. On the morning of the thirteenth, the windows 0:32:46.200 --> 0:32:48.720 and glass doors to the brass Field and Gory Corporate 0:32:48.920 --> 0:32:52.840 HQ were smashed. The words drop cops city or else 0:32:53.040 --> 0:32:56.080 were spray painted on the windows. Paint was applied to 0:32:56.160 --> 0:32:58.600 the front sign. Let it serve as a warning to 0:32:58.640 --> 0:33:01.280 the executives at brass Field and Gory. We know where 0:33:01.320 --> 0:33:03.480 you work and we know where you sleep. Your houses 0:33:03.480 --> 0:33:07.840 could be next Keith Johnson Miller, George James Gory. You 0:33:07.960 --> 0:33:11.560 will drop this contract eventually. Why wait to see how 0:33:11.600 --> 0:33:16.280 far will go? In solidarity with a struggle in Atlanta unquote. 0:33:16.720 --> 0:33:19.440 And then just a few days ago, construction offices in 0:33:19.480 --> 0:33:23.560 Pennsylvania were hit. The community was short and sweet, just 0:33:23.640 --> 0:33:28.240 reads quote. Door windows smashed and building tagged at the 0:33:28.280 --> 0:33:32.520 northeast office of Atlas Technical Consultants at two one to 0:33:32.760 --> 0:33:37.240 six Fillmore Avenue in Erie, Pennsylvania. Stop cops City, defend 0:33:37.280 --> 0:33:41.120 the Atlanta Forest and forests everywhere. A few days ago, 0:33:41.320 --> 0:33:45.440 on May thirty one, there was a massive police mobilization 0:33:45.520 --> 0:33:49.440 involving helicopters and a road checkpoint around the Atlanta Forest 0:33:49.480 --> 0:33:52.800 at the proposed Cops City site. According to reports, Atlanta 0:33:52.840 --> 0:33:56.440 Police Department accompanied Long Engineering, who seemingly were surveying for 0:33:56.480 --> 0:34:00.840 a perimeter fence. No arrests were reported. Long Engineering, as 0:34:00.840 --> 0:34:03.680 we've stated, is owned by Atlas Technical Consultants, and it's 0:34:03.720 --> 0:34:06.600 currently being contracted by Brassfield and Gory, the Atlanta Police 0:34:06.640 --> 0:34:11.160 Foundation's general contractor. The stoft Reeves Young Campaign least a 0:34:11.239 --> 0:34:14.880 statement discussing the events of the past few days quote. 0:34:15.320 --> 0:34:18.279 On May thirty one and June one, Brassfield and Gory 0:34:18.320 --> 0:34:21.600 subcontractor Long Engineering entered the old Atlanta prison farm with 0:34:21.680 --> 0:34:25.279 chainsaws and heavy machinery. They are cutting down trees in 0:34:25.400 --> 0:34:28.040 order to build a fence around the zone. This is 0:34:28.040 --> 0:34:30.920 where the Police Foundation believes they will build the Cops 0:34:30.920 --> 0:34:34.879 City training compound. They hope to prevent the community from 0:34:34.920 --> 0:34:38.560 seeing what they are doing. Long Engineering, owned by a 0:34:38.560 --> 0:34:41.720 man named Shephard Long of ken Saw, Georgia, has already 0:34:41.719 --> 0:34:45.600 participated in destructive acts in the South River Forest. For this, 0:34:45.880 --> 0:34:48.760 they have become the object of a nationwide pressure campaign 0:34:48.960 --> 0:34:53.279 by activists and communities organizing to oppose police militarization and 0:34:53.400 --> 0:34:58.000 climate change. Long is a subsidy of Atlas Technical Consultants. 0:34:58.600 --> 0:35:01.480 If activists in community bers can convince brass Field and 0:35:01.520 --> 0:35:04.400 Gory to drop their contract with the Atlanta Police Foundation, 0:35:04.800 --> 0:35:08.439 the project could lose funding and fall apart. Brass Field 0:35:08.440 --> 0:35:12.560 and Gory uses many subcontractors to do their projects, including 0:35:12.600 --> 0:35:18.080 Atlas Technical Consultants subsidy Long Engineering. By encouraging Long Engineering 0:35:18.120 --> 0:35:20.920 to drop the contract with Brassfield and Gory, we encourage 0:35:20.920 --> 0:35:24.160 Brassfield and Gory to drop their contract with cops city. 0:35:24.400 --> 0:35:28.160 Climate collapse and police militarization are not abstract processes so 0:35:28.239 --> 0:35:31.680 that nobody can stop. They happen because of observable and 0:35:31.760 --> 0:35:35.040 preventable reasons. If you care about police brutality, if you 0:35:35.080 --> 0:35:38.000 want to stop climate change, this is your chance to 0:35:38.080 --> 0:35:41.600 do something unquote, and I do think there are a 0:35:41.600 --> 0:35:45.680 lot of signs that people actually can make actual impacts. 0:35:46.360 --> 0:35:50.560 At the last Community Stakeholder Advisory meeting, Atlanta Assistant Police 0:35:50.600 --> 0:35:54.000 Chief Darien schnear Bomb said that construction plans could be 0:35:54.160 --> 0:35:57.759 quote delayed or deferred because of the actions of a 0:35:57.960 --> 0:36:01.640 very few unquote, and said that this is why police 0:36:01.640 --> 0:36:05.760 agencies are working to quote addressed criminal protests very quickly 0:36:06.040 --> 0:36:10.239 so it doesn't get into that realm unquote. And on 0:36:10.320 --> 0:36:13.800 the day I record this, which is June second. Earlier 0:36:13.840 --> 0:36:17.520 this morning, to police chased Force defenders into the woods 0:36:17.640 --> 0:36:21.680 near a work site and found a camp. Ten Force 0:36:21.719 --> 0:36:25.240 defenders confronted and surrounded a bulldozer that was in the woods, 0:36:25.280 --> 0:36:29.200 resulting in a work stoppage. On a communicate released online 0:36:29.280 --> 0:36:34.000 at scenes read quote work stopped today Thursday, June second, 0:36:34.000 --> 0:36:36.799 as a group of ten Force defenders confronted a bulldozer 0:36:36.840 --> 0:36:41.000 in the forest just west of the Duvy today forcet. 0:36:41.000 --> 0:36:44.919 Defenders launched rocks and fireworks, yelling get the funk out 0:36:44.920 --> 0:36:48.840 of the woods. As the machine was attacked. Four to 0:36:48.920 --> 0:36:52.239 five workers, likely with long engineering, hid behind the bulldozer 0:36:52.520 --> 0:36:56.480 while one Atlanta Police officer stood idly with his hands 0:36:56.560 --> 0:37:00.320 on his hips. Force defenders retreated into the woods. How polling, 0:37:00.480 --> 0:37:03.680 no arrests were made. We call upon anyone who wants 0:37:03.680 --> 0:37:06.360 to defend the forest and stop cops city to support 0:37:06.400 --> 0:37:10.480 the struggle by sewing chaos along the perimeter. Plan a 0:37:10.560 --> 0:37:14.120 slow moving car caravan on Constitution Road, or a rally 0:37:14.200 --> 0:37:17.920 at the juvie workers and pigs. We repeat, stay the 0:37:17.960 --> 0:37:22.120 funk out of the woods unquote. And also today a 0:37:22.160 --> 0:37:26.239 new timeline was released detailing the construction plans for a 0:37:26.239 --> 0:37:29.680 cops City. The Atlanta Police Foundation plans to begin cutting 0:37:29.719 --> 0:37:34.040 down massive swaths of trees in about two weeks. The 0:37:34.120 --> 0:37:39.439 clearing is planned for nearly of the four hundred acre property, 0:37:39.480 --> 0:37:42.399 so defour stations seems to be just two weeks away 0:37:42.440 --> 0:37:46.520 now based on the full site plans that are viewable online. 0:37:47.120 --> 0:37:49.800 I will link the plans in the show notes along 0:37:49.800 --> 0:37:53.480 with the Stop Reeves Young campaign, which details ways to assist, 0:37:53.800 --> 0:37:57.399 like calling campaigns and random stuff that is maybe more 0:37:57.440 --> 0:38:01.000 possible from afar. But the sty Copsdy project is going 0:38:01.040 --> 0:38:04.520 to continue all throughout the summer and seems to have 0:38:04.719 --> 0:38:07.520 no sign of cooling down. It is only it is 0:38:07.560 --> 0:38:10.520 only heating up as the summer gets hotter, so well 0:38:10.560 --> 0:38:13.560 the stuff in the forest in more ways than one, 0:38:14.200 --> 0:38:16.359 But anyway, that doesn't for us. Today. You can check 0:38:16.360 --> 0:38:18.840 out stop Reeves Young dot com for the calling campaign 0:38:18.960 --> 0:38:22.280 and for the list of quote evildoers that are working 0:38:22.360 --> 0:38:28.480 to DeForest sections of the Atlanta South River Forest. You 0:38:28.560 --> 0:38:32.320 can go to scenes dot no blogs dot org to 0:38:32.440 --> 0:38:35.520 read communicates and report backs, and I'll put links for 0:38:35.520 --> 0:38:38.839 the Atlanta Solidarity Fund in the description as well. See 0:38:38.840 --> 0:38:56.359 you on the other side. Welcome to it could happen here. 0:38:56.480 --> 0:38:58.960 It's the show with things fall apart and we put 0:38:59.000 --> 0:39:01.160 them back together again and there may may not be 0:39:01.280 --> 0:39:05.560 enormously allowed lawnmowers in the background. Yeah, this is this 0:39:05.640 --> 0:39:08.040 is This is a podcast also about abolishing lawns, although 0:39:09.840 --> 0:39:11.839 I guess I guess not to today. It's only about 0:39:11.840 --> 0:39:14.120 abolishing lawns because I'm extume we know it about neighbors. 0:39:14.160 --> 0:39:17.280 But we can we can do an anti lne episode 0:39:17.280 --> 0:39:19.239 in the near future. Yeah, one day, one day, but 0:39:19.239 --> 0:39:21.560 but it is on on. On a more serious note, 0:39:21.800 --> 0:39:25.000 is I have Garrison with me, and I have Tanya 0:39:25.080 --> 0:39:28.040 with me, who is an abortion clinic escort and has 0:39:28.080 --> 0:39:30.400 been doing this for a very very long time. Tanya, 0:39:30.440 --> 0:39:33.560 thank you for joining us, Thank you for having me. Yeah, 0:39:33.600 --> 0:39:37.880 I'm I'm really excited to talk with you about this because, um, 0:39:37.960 --> 0:39:39.600 this is well, this is something we've been wanting to 0:39:39.640 --> 0:39:43.640 do for a while because I think not enough people 0:39:44.160 --> 0:39:47.520 know what this is. So I guess I guess the 0:39:47.520 --> 0:39:49.640 first thing is is, Yeah, can you explain to people 0:39:49.719 --> 0:39:54.760 who aren't familiar with this what clinic escorting is. Absolutely so. 0:39:54.880 --> 0:39:58.560 There are a number of volunteer clinic escorts across the 0:39:58.560 --> 0:40:04.280 country and many are they're they're not necessarily organized nationwide, 0:40:04.480 --> 0:40:09.239 but many metro areas do have organizations where you can 0:40:09.320 --> 0:40:12.040 volunteer to be a clinical score. And what that means 0:40:12.719 --> 0:40:16.640 is that you are essentially someone who goes to a 0:40:16.680 --> 0:40:22.400 clinic that performs abortion services and you stand outside that 0:40:22.520 --> 0:40:27.640 clinic and you help the patients get into the clinic, 0:40:28.320 --> 0:40:35.319 uh hopefully free of harassment from protesters outside, and just 0:40:35.520 --> 0:40:40.240 ensure that protesters don't block access to the clinic and 0:40:40.640 --> 0:40:44.960 that the patients are able to get inside you know, 0:40:44.960 --> 0:40:48.120 know where they're going and get insanely Yeah, and that 0:40:48.200 --> 0:40:52.480 seems like that it seems like a really hard job 0:40:52.760 --> 0:40:55.640 in a couple of ways. But both of the sense 0:40:55.680 --> 0:40:58.399 that like there's a bunch of extremely angry and very 0:40:58.520 --> 0:41:06.080 weird people with really signs and very sincerely held beliefs 0:41:06.080 --> 0:41:11.960 on in a different uh side where they they do 0:41:12.320 --> 0:41:15.839 want to stop people from going and convince them not 0:41:16.080 --> 0:41:19.120 to go in um, you know, and it is interesting 0:41:19.200 --> 0:41:22.240 as as a clinic escort, you know, you're you're really 0:41:24.480 --> 0:41:27.480 you don't have an opinion, Like I don't have an 0:41:27.480 --> 0:41:29.520 opinion on whether someone goes in, someone can go in, 0:41:29.640 --> 0:41:32.800 someone cannot go in. It's not you know, where the 0:41:33.080 --> 0:41:35.600 people who do the clinic escorting are there because we 0:41:35.680 --> 0:41:40.480 believe that women and their partners should have a choice 0:41:40.680 --> 0:41:44.560 about what to do. And so if a woman chooses 0:41:44.680 --> 0:41:47.040 that she doesn't want to go into the clinic, you know, 0:41:47.160 --> 0:41:49.640 that's fine by me. I'm just there to ensure that 0:41:49.680 --> 0:41:52.799 she has the choice to go into the clinic um 0:41:52.960 --> 0:41:56.799 and and get whatever services she needs, whether it's uh, 0:41:57.280 --> 0:42:05.600 whether it's crenatal care or contraception or abortion services. So um, 0:42:05.680 --> 0:42:08.360 it's it's fascinating because yeah, there are a lot of people. 0:42:08.680 --> 0:42:13.439 You know, the protesters on the other side can really 0:42:13.560 --> 0:42:18.240 run the gamuts. Some of them, um, are very angry 0:42:18.280 --> 0:42:21.759 and have very interesting signs, but some of them, you know, 0:42:22.239 --> 0:42:26.360 you they also range to those who are just standing 0:42:26.360 --> 0:42:30.239 there saying the Rosary, walking up and down, and the 0:42:31.040 --> 0:42:34.640 carrying crucifixes. And you know, if it was just people 0:42:34.680 --> 0:42:37.760 saying the Rosary and then going coming saying the Rosary 0:42:37.800 --> 0:42:42.120 and going, I probably wouldn't do what I do because 0:42:42.239 --> 0:42:45.000 that's neither here nor there from me. It's the people 0:42:45.080 --> 0:42:48.200 who are you know, they will try to get in 0:42:48.320 --> 0:42:51.520 the window of a car when a car pulls up 0:42:51.560 --> 0:42:55.880 if if they happen to have the windows down and uh, 0:42:55.920 --> 0:42:58.279 you know, get in the like put their heads in 0:42:58.360 --> 0:43:00.640 the car to try to talk to the people or 0:43:00.800 --> 0:43:03.960 hand them literature. Um And I've seen some of the 0:43:04.000 --> 0:43:06.520 literature that you know, people have shared with us after 0:43:06.560 --> 0:43:09.759 it's been given to them, you know, and it's a 0:43:09.800 --> 0:43:14.239 lot of it is full of misinformation, um and and 0:43:14.719 --> 0:43:19.520 kind of also you know, as someone who was raised Catholic. 0:43:20.200 --> 0:43:23.680 Uh and and it's coming from people many many of 0:43:23.680 --> 0:43:28.080 the people who are protesting are Catholic. It's very emotionally 0:43:28.120 --> 0:43:32.719 manipulative and not actual information on some of them. I 0:43:33.239 --> 0:43:36.840 remember seeing one once around Christmas time that was like 0:43:36.920 --> 0:43:40.200 a whole cartoon about how excited Mary was to be 0:43:40.360 --> 0:43:44.960 Jesus mom and uh and and how therefore that means 0:43:45.000 --> 0:43:49.560 that you should not have your pregnancy terminated because you 0:43:49.600 --> 0:43:54.839 should be more like Mary and be excited too. Yeah, yeah, 0:43:55.520 --> 0:43:59.160 pretty fascinated. Yeah, And I guess that's another thing that 0:43:59.160 --> 0:44:02.880 that I was wondering about to what extent, like so 0:44:03.239 --> 0:44:07.320 Obviously there's a physical component of this, right is okay, 0:44:07.320 --> 0:44:10.360 trying to make sure that people aren't physically interfering. Um, 0:44:10.400 --> 0:44:13.520 how much of it also is sort of like providing 0:44:13.560 --> 0:44:16.680 emotional support to the to the people you're with, sure, 0:44:17.040 --> 0:44:21.640 because it's really stressful it can be. I mean, the 0:44:21.920 --> 0:44:26.840 clinic where I'm an escort is has a little bit 0:44:26.880 --> 0:44:32.479 of a perimeter where uh, there's there's a parking lot 0:44:32.960 --> 0:44:37.520 and between the people where they can actually protest out 0:44:37.600 --> 0:44:41.799 on the sidewalk which is public property obviously and the 0:44:41.840 --> 0:44:44.759 actual entrance to the clinic. Um. But there are people 0:44:44.800 --> 0:44:47.680 who come in off a public transport to and not 0:44:47.719 --> 0:44:50.640 necessarily aren't necessarily coming in a car where they can 0:44:50.680 --> 0:44:55.360 get sort of beyond where the protesters are um to 0:44:55.440 --> 0:44:57.840 the clinic. And so I actually have a vivid memory. 0:44:57.840 --> 0:45:01.560 I've been doing this for sixteen years, and I have 0:45:01.640 --> 0:45:05.240 a vivid memory of a woman who came off the bus. 0:45:05.640 --> 0:45:07.759 She got down off the bus at the bus stop, like, 0:45:08.200 --> 0:45:12.919 and the protesters really got up in her face. And 0:45:13.120 --> 0:45:16.120 one of them in particular was a guy who is 0:45:16.760 --> 0:45:20.000 I'm not a small person, I'm about five ten and 0:45:20.000 --> 0:45:23.279 and and pretty decent size, but he's definitely over six 0:45:23.320 --> 0:45:26.439 ft tall, and he was just like looming over her, 0:45:26.560 --> 0:45:29.640 and I had to physically insert myself in between her 0:45:29.880 --> 0:45:32.440 and him and say, Hey, you want to go to 0:45:32.480 --> 0:45:34.479 the clinic, this is how you get there. You don't 0:45:34.520 --> 0:45:37.160 have to listen to these people. If you want to 0:45:37.160 --> 0:45:41.439 talk to them, you can, but you know you don't 0:45:41.480 --> 0:45:45.680 have to, and you know, and and really, you know, 0:45:45.840 --> 0:45:49.719 they're in such a fragile moment, most of them. Interestingly, 0:45:49.840 --> 0:45:52.640 that that particular individual had come to find out wasn't 0:45:52.640 --> 0:45:55.600 even coming for termination services. She was coming to get 0:45:55.600 --> 0:45:58.000 an ultrasound. She was having twins, and it was the 0:45:58.040 --> 0:46:01.279 lowest cost place that she could go to actually find 0:46:01.280 --> 0:46:05.160 an ultrasound to make sure that her twins were okay, 0:46:05.440 --> 0:46:09.480 um and so. And she even came out afterwards with 0:46:09.520 --> 0:46:11.839 the ultrasound and like shoved it in the guy's face 0:46:11.880 --> 0:46:16.440 and was like, you know, you know, go take a 0:46:16.480 --> 0:46:20.919 flying leap, but um so, But yeah, I mean, part 0:46:20.920 --> 0:46:24.120 of it is just showing that there are people who 0:46:24.280 --> 0:46:27.319 believe that you have the right to make the choice 0:46:27.360 --> 0:46:31.360 you're making, and that we're not judging you. We're not here, 0:46:32.400 --> 0:46:35.200 you know. I think a lot of women in the 0:46:35.239 --> 0:46:39.560 position of who feel that the need to terminate a pregnancy, 0:46:39.760 --> 0:46:42.799 they feel very judged. It's it's it's society is very 0:46:42.920 --> 0:46:46.680 judgment Bault And I think you know, being there, we 0:46:47.000 --> 0:46:49.800 have so many people who come up to us UM 0:46:49.880 --> 0:46:52.040 and just say, hey, thanks for being just thanks for 0:46:52.120 --> 0:46:55.480 being right. It's it's just helpful to know that someone 0:46:55.640 --> 0:46:59.759 is here, uh, and and and and believes that I 0:47:00.000 --> 0:47:01.799 have the right to make this decision and that I'm 0:47:01.800 --> 0:47:04.799 the best person to make this decision about me and 0:47:04.880 --> 0:47:09.640 my body and my family. UM is really it's it 0:47:10.400 --> 0:47:13.120 makes it that much, it makes it better. And and 0:47:13.160 --> 0:47:16.120 people will come up and tell the most personal stories 0:47:16.280 --> 0:47:19.960 as well. We've had someone who came up to me 0:47:20.040 --> 0:47:25.520 once and said, hey, no, ten years ago, my wife 0:47:26.120 --> 0:47:29.000 was pregnant UM and we had been trying for so 0:47:29.040 --> 0:47:31.640 long to have a baby, and we found out that 0:47:31.680 --> 0:47:36.759 there was this massive, you know, genetic defect that was 0:47:37.080 --> 0:47:42.799 not really compatible with life, and we had we had 0:47:42.920 --> 0:47:46.240 we faced the tough decision about do we go ahead 0:47:46.280 --> 0:47:50.240 and terminate this pregnancy and and try to start again 0:47:50.320 --> 0:47:52.600 and have it and and and get pregnant again, or 0:47:52.600 --> 0:47:55.000 do we carry this to term knowing that this child 0:47:55.200 --> 0:48:01.719 isn't going to live um for very long and that individual, uh, 0:48:01.880 --> 0:48:04.640 you know, and his wife and decided to to terminate 0:48:04.800 --> 0:48:07.920 the existing pregnancy, knowing that the baby wasn't going to live. 0:48:08.640 --> 0:48:12.600 And he said, and uh, when we went to actually 0:48:13.000 --> 0:48:16.960 have the abortion, we had to run the gauntlet of 0:48:17.000 --> 0:48:20.160 all of those people outside, all those people like this 0:48:20.360 --> 0:48:23.400 telling us how we were killing our baby. Um, I 0:48:23.560 --> 0:48:26.640 wanted baby. You know that we were killing our child 0:48:26.960 --> 0:48:29.839 and we were murderers and all of that. And so 0:48:30.040 --> 0:48:32.040 he was just like, just thank you for being here, 0:48:32.080 --> 0:48:34.520 thank you for being here and showing because you don't 0:48:34.560 --> 0:48:38.120 know what what's going on in the lives of all 0:48:38.160 --> 0:48:40.920 of these people who are coming in here and they 0:48:40.960 --> 0:48:44.919 don't know all what's going on. And so and he said, 0:48:44.960 --> 0:48:47.640 I really wish we had had someone like you know, 0:48:47.800 --> 0:48:50.799 you standing here to let us know that it was okay, 0:48:51.360 --> 0:48:54.640 you know, at the end that moment of time to 0:48:54.640 --> 0:48:59.080 to to do this. So, yeah, it's it's interesting people 0:48:59.120 --> 0:49:02.440 will tell very very personal stories. The next thing I 0:49:02.480 --> 0:49:06.920 was wondering is about how how this has changed over time. 0:49:06.960 --> 0:49:09.680 I mean, yeah, you've you've been in this for like 0:49:10.640 --> 0:49:15.320 longer than I've been, like very seriously a conscious person. 0:49:16.000 --> 0:49:23.600 So yeah, so so I'm wondering what has it been like, 0:49:23.719 --> 0:49:26.480 how how has this changed over the past sort of 0:49:27.120 --> 0:49:29.920 like a decade and a half, And has there been 0:49:29.920 --> 0:49:35.800 a change like very very recently as in in in 0:49:35.840 --> 0:49:38.239 the sort of like as as Row looks like it's 0:49:38.320 --> 0:49:42.520 dying and what do you think that's going to mean 0:49:42.600 --> 0:49:47.320 going forward for this? Yeah? Um, so yes it has 0:49:47.400 --> 0:49:52.160 changed over time. Um, and and yes it has changed 0:49:52.320 --> 0:49:55.399 very recently as well. Um, what I what I can say. 0:49:55.520 --> 0:49:58.200 You know, when I first started doing this, it was 0:49:58.239 --> 0:50:01.440 really just kind of you know, the same hand and 0:50:01.560 --> 0:50:04.880 and it still is the same handful of usual suspects 0:50:04.880 --> 0:50:08.760 who show up at least at the clinic I escort 0:50:08.920 --> 0:50:12.200 at um. But it was really it was it was 0:50:12.239 --> 0:50:16.480 a small handful. And uh, it was the same people 0:50:16.680 --> 0:50:21.920 every week, week week, week after week after week. And um, 0:50:21.960 --> 0:50:25.000 you know on the clinic sport side, you know, we're volunteers, 0:50:25.080 --> 0:50:27.560 so you know, we need people to come and be 0:50:27.680 --> 0:50:30.000 sort of energized, and so you know, we have a 0:50:30.000 --> 0:50:32.319 cadre of people who have been doing it. Yes, I've 0:50:32.360 --> 0:50:34.400 been doing it for sixteen years. But there's a woman 0:50:34.480 --> 0:50:36.640 that I I a sport with. There are several women 0:50:36.680 --> 0:50:39.520 that I sport with who've been doing it decades longer 0:50:39.560 --> 0:50:44.839 than I, right, and yeah, I mean really amazing, really 0:50:44.880 --> 0:50:50.360 amazing women and who probably have even more interesting stories 0:50:50.360 --> 0:50:54.120 than I do. But you know, in the you know, 0:50:54.160 --> 0:50:57.000 we and we would see after after something happened, like 0:50:57.040 --> 0:51:01.520 when George Tiller was murdered, we had an influx of 0:51:01.600 --> 0:51:05.400 volunteers who came, people who were angry and said, you know, 0:51:05.560 --> 0:51:08.279 I was so upset and I realized I needed to 0:51:08.280 --> 0:51:12.319 do something about it. Um. So periodically there have been 0:51:12.840 --> 0:51:15.680 you know, obviously, you know, the murder of George Schiller 0:51:15.760 --> 0:51:19.360 was a tragedy, but we've had things like that that 0:51:19.440 --> 0:51:25.920 have energized people and brought them in two actually doing 0:51:26.239 --> 0:51:30.200 clinic escorting. UM. And there's been a little bit of 0:51:30.200 --> 0:51:33.919 a pickup recently in the number of escorts, but it's 0:51:34.160 --> 0:51:37.799 nothing like the pickup that I think I've seen in 0:51:37.920 --> 0:51:45.279 terms of antis anders. And it's you know, and it's 0:51:45.280 --> 0:51:49.200 important because you know, if you really believe that people 0:51:49.280 --> 0:51:52.759 should have the right to bodily autonomy and the right 0:51:52.880 --> 0:51:58.239 to make this choice, UM, that that requires people to 0:51:58.320 --> 0:52:00.719 actually make it happen for them, and there are a 0:52:00.760 --> 0:52:03.360 lot of people trying to make it not happen. And 0:52:03.400 --> 0:52:07.720 I actually I was actually esporting, um because the clinic esports, 0:52:07.960 --> 0:52:11.040 uh they you know, we actually change off, we have 0:52:11.080 --> 0:52:14.600 a schedule. We don't all go every week at least 0:52:14.640 --> 0:52:16.440 at the clinic where I am, because you know, we 0:52:16.520 --> 0:52:19.359 also want to have our own lives and not just 0:52:19.560 --> 0:52:24.520 be standing at this clinic every every weekend. Um. But 0:52:24.640 --> 0:52:28.000 I was esporting the weekend after Ruth bader Ginsberg died 0:52:29.360 --> 0:52:33.480 and I was standing by myself kind of it went 0:52:33.560 --> 0:52:37.160 end well, another person went and just I think picked 0:52:37.239 --> 0:52:39.320 up a sign or took a bathroom right or something, 0:52:40.040 --> 0:52:47.000 and one of the newer anties um stood across from 0:52:47.000 --> 0:52:51.480 me and yelled at me that Ruth bader Ginsburg was 0:52:51.480 --> 0:52:55.720 was burning in hell now and that if I didn't repent, 0:52:56.160 --> 0:52:58.120 you know, that the same thing would happen to me, 0:52:58.520 --> 0:53:01.960 and that that's just how plan that, you know, people 0:53:02.000 --> 0:53:07.399 who believe in in killing babies, uh just are going 0:53:07.440 --> 0:53:11.160 to rotten hell for eternity. And and so that was 0:53:11.200 --> 0:53:13.440 an interesting you know, and it was the first time. 0:53:14.120 --> 0:53:16.240 Most of the time they don't really try to engage 0:53:16.280 --> 0:53:18.440 us in conversation, but it was the first time someone 0:53:18.560 --> 0:53:24.240 was really just saying super super like sort of inflammatory 0:53:24.840 --> 0:53:28.920 stuff to me as an personally, as an escort, we 0:53:29.040 --> 0:53:32.400 certainly had heard, you know, they'll they'll say things to 0:53:32.480 --> 0:53:35.360 patients where they say, you know, don't go in there, 0:53:35.640 --> 0:53:38.800 it's not safe, you're good mom to your baby, and 0:53:39.160 --> 0:53:41.719 that kind of stuff, which is also you know, obviously 0:53:41.760 --> 0:53:46.640 incredibly emotional views to women going through uh, you know 0:53:46.719 --> 0:53:48.759 what they're going through when they feel that they have 0:53:48.920 --> 0:53:55.040 no better choice than determinate pregnancy. UM. But uh, yeah, 0:53:55.520 --> 0:54:01.000 the actual sort of the vitriol towards towards the escorts 0:54:01.160 --> 0:54:05.200 is a little is increasing UM. And I would say 0:54:05.200 --> 0:54:07.920 around the time Ruth Bader Ginsburg died, we also have 0:54:08.000 --> 0:54:12.120 seen an enormous uptick in the number of protesters outside 0:54:12.120 --> 0:54:16.719 the clinic um each each week, as well as the 0:54:16.840 --> 0:54:21.280 length of time that they will stay. UM. They actually 0:54:21.280 --> 0:54:25.719 about doubled the length of time that they should stay UM. 0:54:25.840 --> 0:54:29.279 And so you know, it's it's been a challenge. It's 0:54:29.280 --> 0:54:33.040 been a challenge for us on the escorting side to 0:54:33.080 --> 0:54:37.840 actually cover the ships because you know, we are again 0:54:37.840 --> 0:54:41.279 we're all volunteers who have lives and want to live 0:54:41.320 --> 0:54:46.000 our lives. You know, we're women who are mothers, grandmothers, 0:54:46.480 --> 0:54:50.239 Uh men, who are you know, father's grandfathers who just 0:54:50.600 --> 0:54:54.360 you know, want want to do something good and help out. Um. 0:54:54.760 --> 0:54:58.080 And you know, more and more of the time, Uh, 0:54:58.320 --> 0:55:01.520 we were having to stay later, come earlier, stay later, 0:55:02.320 --> 0:55:05.439 to ensure that there's someone there, that there's a there's 0:55:05.480 --> 0:55:09.760 there's a friendly or at least protective president. Uh. For 0:55:10.160 --> 0:55:14.960 the women coming into the have they gotten like have 0:55:15.040 --> 0:55:20.120 they gotten more violent? Um? You know, like I said, 0:55:20.160 --> 0:55:23.799 there's actually so for us. It's where we are in 0:55:23.960 --> 0:55:26.120 kind of the clinic where I work, are in kind 0:55:26.120 --> 0:55:30.240 of a privileged position, so to speak. And that where 0:55:30.280 --> 0:55:34.160 they are stationed, you know, out on the sidewalk is 0:55:34.760 --> 0:55:41.440 uh is far enough away. Um, you know, across a 0:55:41.480 --> 0:55:44.000 parking lot from from the clinic that you know that 0:55:44.360 --> 0:55:50.040 the physical altered you know, interactions are are relatively rare. Um. 0:55:50.080 --> 0:55:52.719 I'm sure you know that that wouldn't really be better 0:55:53.040 --> 0:55:55.840 A question? Better place to a clinic escort? Who's on 0:55:55.880 --> 0:55:58.440 a clinic at a clinic where you know, the entrance 0:55:58.480 --> 0:56:00.480 to the clinic is right on a public I'd walk 0:56:00.640 --> 0:56:03.560 right where I think you know, they definitely do have 0:56:04.120 --> 0:56:11.920 significantly more physical interactions. UM. I guess it's hard to say, 0:56:13.400 --> 0:56:17.440 it depends on how you define that is it there 0:56:18.520 --> 0:56:23.560 For a long time. The one of the signs outside 0:56:23.560 --> 0:56:27.560 the clinic was a photo of of the doctor who 0:56:27.600 --> 0:56:32.520 provided the termination services, um, a photo of him and 0:56:32.680 --> 0:56:36.960 his name, and it said retire this person you know 0:56:37.080 --> 0:56:44.279 his name and the retire abortionist and then his name um. 0:56:44.360 --> 0:56:48.160 And that that showed up, I think, as I vaguely 0:56:48.160 --> 0:56:52.120 recall around the time George Schiller was was murdered. UM, 0:56:52.160 --> 0:56:58.280 So what does that mean? Right? So that's that's violent 0:56:58.440 --> 0:57:00.759 in and of itself. It's it's it's an a suggestion 0:57:00.800 --> 0:57:05.960 there of UM. You know, I won't pretend that it's not. 0:57:06.280 --> 0:57:08.920 You know, it doesn't sometimes go through my head like 0:57:08.960 --> 0:57:13.480 you know, because there are clinic esports who have been murdered. Um. 0:57:13.560 --> 0:57:17.160 And and so it doesn't. It sometimes does go through 0:57:17.200 --> 0:57:20.640 my head, especially like you know, certain times of year 0:57:20.760 --> 0:57:24.280 when we're bundled up and it's cold. Um, you know, 0:57:24.440 --> 0:57:27.000 someone could come up behind me and I you know, 0:57:27.000 --> 0:57:31.440 wouldn't necessarily always hear them or see them. Um. And 0:57:31.760 --> 0:57:37.400 so it is, it's you know, there's definitely always an 0:57:37.520 --> 0:57:41.360 undercurrent in a feeling of you know, something could escalate. 0:57:42.600 --> 0:57:46.040 We're fortunate at my clinic that it It hasn't too 0:57:46.120 --> 0:57:49.160 much recently, but we you know, I would say, you know, again, 0:57:49.680 --> 0:57:52.760 as Roe is dying, you know, they're getting more bold. Um. 0:57:52.800 --> 0:57:55.480 They're not supposed to trespass, they're not supposed to come 0:57:55.840 --> 0:58:00.400 on into the parking lot. Um. And yet there are 0:58:00.480 --> 0:58:04.320 some who are really trying to test that boundary now 0:58:04.360 --> 0:58:07.920 who will go to their car not in the clinic 0:58:08.000 --> 0:58:12.360 parking lot, and then as they leave, drive into the 0:58:12.400 --> 0:58:16.280 parking lot and around the by the clinic just to 0:58:16.400 --> 0:58:21.480 sort of um, intimidate people and and and to can 0:58:21.680 --> 0:58:25.640 make the escorts concerned because obviously, you know, when we're 0:58:25.680 --> 0:58:29.600 on foot, it's very hard to get physically between them 0:58:29.760 --> 0:58:35.480 and something when they're when they're driving, um. And so yeah, 0:58:35.680 --> 0:58:39.360 it's it's there's definitely an escalation in that front, and 0:58:39.360 --> 0:58:43.720 and an escalation in in the rhetoric. Um. You know, 0:58:44.040 --> 0:58:48.720 there are more I would say, kind of pointed signs, 0:58:49.120 --> 0:58:54.120 uh that that are used to try to intimidate the 0:58:54.160 --> 0:58:56.840 women into not going into the clinic. There was actually 0:58:56.920 --> 0:59:00.720 there's a sign that had been used for for that 0:59:00.800 --> 0:59:02.840 actually has been used for a little bit longer, but 0:59:02.960 --> 0:59:06.840 it basically it had the names of two women who, 0:59:06.920 --> 0:59:12.400 according to the antis uh had died under the care 0:59:12.600 --> 0:59:16.400 of the services of the doctor at our clinic, which 0:59:16.680 --> 0:59:19.160 in the end, when I actually did my own research, 0:59:19.320 --> 0:59:24.400 wasn't true. One one just very unfortunately had an allergic 0:59:24.440 --> 0:59:27.280 reaction to the anesthetic, which is not something you know 0:59:27.440 --> 0:59:32.240 unless you've been under anesthesia, and uh the other and 0:59:32.240 --> 0:59:35.120 and it wasn't and neither of them wasn't actually the 0:59:35.160 --> 0:59:39.000 provider at at our clinic who was performing the service 0:59:39.000 --> 0:59:43.440 at the time. Uh, those individuals died, but it said, 0:59:43.520 --> 0:59:46.160 you know, dead, and it had these two women's names, 0:59:46.720 --> 0:59:52.360 um and a hundred and fifty thousand babies and um, 0:59:52.360 --> 0:59:55.880 which is a little bit inflammatory. And then it and 0:59:55.960 --> 0:59:59.160 also misleading when you think about it, because you know, 0:59:59.280 --> 1:00:02.520 the maternal more totality rate in the United States is 1:00:02.560 --> 1:00:06.000 like over twenty three women for a hundred thousands. So 1:00:06.040 --> 1:00:08.120 I was like, well, even if this is accurate, even 1:00:08.160 --> 1:00:11.520 if this sign was accurate, which is not, you know, 1:00:11.840 --> 1:00:14.920 two women out of a hundred and fifty that's way 1:00:14.960 --> 1:00:21.240 safer than actually for pregnancy UM. And you know, so 1:00:21.320 --> 1:00:23.880 it's those kinds of things. It's it's the mind games. 1:00:24.200 --> 1:00:28.920 And you know, as someone who uh, you know has 1:00:28.960 --> 1:00:30.480 seen this for a while, Like you know, to me, 1:00:31.280 --> 1:00:34.880 the mind game is part of the violence, even though 1:00:34.920 --> 1:00:39.800 it's not physical. It's it's really you know, trying to 1:00:39.800 --> 1:00:44.880 to make people feel ashamed and feel that they shouldn't 1:00:44.920 --> 1:00:47.400 come out. And I think that you know, as as 1:00:48.760 --> 1:00:52.920 we're looking at Robe possibly being overturned, you know, you're 1:00:52.920 --> 1:00:55.800 suddenly seeing all of these people coming out of the woodwork. 1:00:55.960 --> 1:01:01.080 Because you know, so many women in this country actually 1:01:01.080 --> 1:01:04.320 do abort a pregnancy at some point in time, do 1:01:04.480 --> 1:01:10.480 terminate a pregnancy, and yet it's not something anyone talks 1:01:10.520 --> 1:01:14.440 about because it's it's still because of the dialogue in 1:01:14.480 --> 1:01:17.760 this country, and because of the way it is portrayed. 1:01:18.400 --> 1:01:21.960 It is something that most people, you know, I don't 1:01:22.000 --> 1:01:26.000 want to be public about, not just because of the 1:01:27.040 --> 1:01:31.120 politics of it, but because you know, there are people 1:01:31.120 --> 1:01:36.160 who are made to feel ashamed and as opposed to 1:01:36.560 --> 1:01:38.720 you know this, This was the right choice for me 1:01:38.840 --> 1:01:43.160 at this point in time. Um, And maybe under different 1:01:43.200 --> 1:01:48.560 circumstances it might have been a different choice. UM. But yeah, 1:01:48.840 --> 1:01:55.120 So I think it's hard to say whether violence has increased, um, 1:01:55.200 --> 1:01:59.760 because it's always had that undercurrent. I mean ever since 1:01:59.800 --> 1:02:03.320 I've started, ever since I started doing. One of the 1:02:03.360 --> 1:02:05.160 things that we've talked to a few other people, we 1:02:05.200 --> 1:02:09.680 talked to someone who was doing security for sort of 1:02:09.680 --> 1:02:11.760 security plans for clinics, and one of the things they 1:02:11.800 --> 1:02:15.720 were talking about was like a shift in the kinds 1:02:15.720 --> 1:02:18.240 of people who were getting involved in these clinics. And 1:02:18.240 --> 1:02:21.560 I'm wondering, in these clinic protests, like I wonder, have 1:02:21.560 --> 1:02:24.560 have you have you seen like I don't know, they 1:02:24.560 --> 1:02:27.320 were talking about, like there's been some specifically fascist groups 1:02:27.320 --> 1:02:30.120 getting involved, and I was wondering if like the kinds 1:02:30.120 --> 1:02:33.000 of people who've you've seen have been like that, or like, 1:02:33.480 --> 1:02:34.800 you know, in terms of the new people who are 1:02:34.800 --> 1:02:38.640 getting involved, are they closer to like the kinds of 1:02:38.640 --> 1:02:42.640 people you usually see see outside these clinics. So that's 1:02:42.640 --> 1:02:46.440 actually an interesting point that I hadn't I hadn't thought 1:02:46.520 --> 1:02:52.240 too much about. But I think, you know, the previously, 1:02:52.600 --> 1:02:54.440 you know, when I first started doing this, it tended 1:02:54.520 --> 1:03:00.400 to be kind of your older Catholic uh folks who 1:03:00.560 --> 1:03:05.240 are you know, coming and saying the rosary, you know, uh, 1:03:05.280 --> 1:03:08.760 standing there with the statue of the Blessed Virgin Mary, 1:03:08.800 --> 1:03:14.240 like in front of the clinic and um and and 1:03:14.640 --> 1:03:19.480 you know, some could be pushy. Um, but I think 1:03:19.520 --> 1:03:23.800 it is accurate to say there is actually a younger 1:03:23.920 --> 1:03:30.800 element of anti abortion protester or anti choice really because 1:03:30.880 --> 1:03:33.960 in the end it's really about the choice, not and 1:03:34.400 --> 1:03:39.520 and so I think, yes, I'm seeing younger and younger people. 1:03:40.480 --> 1:03:42.840 And it's interesting that you mentioned that because a lot 1:03:42.920 --> 1:03:49.520 of them are men. Uh, they're young, almost almost entirely white. 1:03:49.560 --> 1:03:53.920 There is a few a handful of people of color, 1:03:54.040 --> 1:03:59.640 but um, they they tend to come very very rarely. Um. 1:03:59.760 --> 1:04:04.960 And you know, the it's interesting, So it was largely 1:04:05.040 --> 1:04:10.880 older white men and women previously, and now I would 1:04:10.880 --> 1:04:15.160 say there are many more younger men getting involved, a 1:04:15.480 --> 1:04:20.520 few women. But when for most of the young and 1:04:20.600 --> 1:04:23.960 when I say young, I would say, you know, well, 1:04:24.040 --> 1:04:25.919 while for the for the clinic I'm at, I would 1:04:25.960 --> 1:04:31.720 say anyone under probably the age of forty. But you know, also, um, 1:04:31.760 --> 1:04:34.360 you know, really when when you know, even under the 1:04:34.360 --> 1:04:37.560 age of thirty or twenty five, it's with the exception 1:04:37.600 --> 1:04:43.400 of one, it's met it is it is white men. Um. 1:04:43.520 --> 1:04:48.600 And uh, yeah, so that's that's interesting. I hadn't It's 1:04:48.680 --> 1:04:53.640 quite possible. Um, certainly there are some that but you know, 1:04:53.800 --> 1:04:57.400 we as clinic escorts are not actually engaging these individuals 1:04:57.400 --> 1:05:01.040 and conversation. That's not something that you know, we have 1:05:01.200 --> 1:05:03.760 to sign pledges that were you know, at least for 1:05:03.800 --> 1:05:06.520 the for the organization that we volunteer with, that we're 1:05:06.560 --> 1:05:09.160 not going to engage in conversation with them. That we're not, 1:05:09.600 --> 1:05:12.880 you know, because no one you know, and I guess 1:05:12.880 --> 1:05:14.920 this is sort of the whole point of your podcast. 1:05:15.480 --> 1:05:17.640 No one is going to change each other's minds on 1:05:17.760 --> 1:05:23.000 this issue, right um, and you know over over the 1:05:23.000 --> 1:05:27.200 parking lot, uh and and one uh, you know sort 1:05:27.240 --> 1:05:31.040 of interaction. So we actually we we don't and we 1:05:31.120 --> 1:05:35.560 actively don't because we we just you know, it's it's 1:05:35.600 --> 1:05:38.520 not worth it. We're there. The point of being there 1:05:38.680 --> 1:05:41.000 is not to try to get to know the other 1:05:41.400 --> 1:05:45.400 the the anti choice demonstrators, it's not to try to 1:05:45.840 --> 1:05:48.280 you know, change their minds. It's just to ensure that 1:05:48.360 --> 1:05:53.800 the women who have made their decision are able to 1:05:53.880 --> 1:05:56.720 freely access the health care services that they have made 1:05:56.720 --> 1:06:00.280 the decision access. Yeah, that makes a lot of that. 1:06:00.400 --> 1:06:06.720 That's definitely seems like the like, it definitely seems like 1:06:06.760 --> 1:06:08.480 the best strategy for this. It seems like something that 1:06:08.520 --> 1:06:11.080 like other people could learn from as like a tactic 1:06:11.160 --> 1:06:15.040 to deal with this kind of stuff, because yeah, and 1:06:15.040 --> 1:06:21.120 engaging with those people. It doesn't I have limited experience 1:06:21.120 --> 1:06:22.480 with this, but they showed up to my well, okay, 1:06:22.520 --> 1:06:23.880 show up to my high school, but then they also 1:06:23.920 --> 1:06:27.160 show up to my college, and we just like that 1:06:27.280 --> 1:06:29.640 they were trying to like get in use footage, and 1:06:29.720 --> 1:06:32.520 so we wound up just like sitting down in front 1:06:32.520 --> 1:06:33.840 of the like just sitting down in front of their 1:06:33.880 --> 1:06:35.880 signs so people couldn't see them, and then just like 1:06:37.040 --> 1:06:39.400 refusing to talk to them, And that I think worked 1:06:39.440 --> 1:06:43.480 a lot better than like, I don't know a lot 1:06:43.480 --> 1:06:45.160 of the other stuff that I've seen, because yeah, like 1:06:45.160 --> 1:06:47.040 definitely right, like yeah, like you're not gonna those people, 1:06:47.080 --> 1:06:50.040 Like yeah, like just there's no way you're gonna change 1:06:50.080 --> 1:06:53.720 the mind of like someone if you's holding a sign there. 1:06:53.720 --> 1:06:57.680 And I guess that's also another thing that that that 1:06:57.840 --> 1:07:03.600 it's interesting about this, which is yeah, like it's like 1:07:03.720 --> 1:07:08.200 your your emphasis on it's not about the audiological debate 1:07:08.280 --> 1:07:10.480 as much as it is, like it's not about like 1:07:11.120 --> 1:07:13.320 you going to confront these people. It's about making sure 1:07:13.360 --> 1:07:15.560 that the people who need these services are safe and 1:07:15.560 --> 1:07:19.000 are able to do it, and that that seems like 1:07:19.040 --> 1:07:23.040 a very powerful way to sort of like bypass this, 1:07:23.360 --> 1:07:27.800 Like I don't know, bypass is weird like discourse circuit 1:07:28.000 --> 1:07:32.920 that everyone gets in. Yeah, I mean I think you 1:07:32.920 --> 1:07:34.960 know what I what I can tell you. I mean, listen, 1:07:35.000 --> 1:07:37.400 I would love to sleep in on my Saturday mornings. 1:07:37.840 --> 1:07:40.120 I don't. I don't like to to get up and 1:07:40.120 --> 1:07:42.800 give up, you know, you know, two to four hours 1:07:42.800 --> 1:07:46.520 of my Saturday um, you know, in the freezing rain 1:07:47.080 --> 1:07:50.720 or the you know wind and cold auran a really 1:07:50.760 --> 1:07:53.720 hot some more day and and get up out of 1:07:53.720 --> 1:07:56.600 bed to do that. But you know, on you know, 1:07:56.680 --> 1:07:59.760 there are cold winter mornings and I'm like, oh gosh, 1:08:00.440 --> 1:08:03.680 it's it's early. I'm that that alarms awfully early and 1:08:03.720 --> 1:08:07.600 it's really cold outside. But I always just in my mind, 1:08:07.880 --> 1:08:11.600 the thing that I tell myself is you never know 1:08:11.680 --> 1:08:13.920 who's coming in today, who just needs to see you 1:08:15.520 --> 1:08:20.120 and just needs to see someone there too. You know, 1:08:20.120 --> 1:08:23.639 whether it's to give her the directions because she's so 1:08:24.240 --> 1:08:28.599 distraught after having to drive or walk by a number 1:08:28.640 --> 1:08:31.880 of protesters telling her how she's you know, going to 1:08:31.920 --> 1:08:34.920 regret her decision and how she's a terrible human being 1:08:34.960 --> 1:08:37.479 and she's a killer, and she's at this, she's a slut, 1:08:37.520 --> 1:08:40.280 she's a whole earld whatever, you know, whatever the message 1:08:40.320 --> 1:08:44.920 that someone in that um situation gets by walking past 1:08:44.920 --> 1:08:49.160 those protesters, um, you know, I never know who needs 1:08:49.160 --> 1:08:52.240 to just see me there, and whether it's that she 1:08:52.360 --> 1:08:55.519 just needs directions because she's so distraught after going through, 1:08:55.640 --> 1:08:58.920 you know, running that gauntlet, that she's kind of lost 1:08:58.920 --> 1:09:01.240 her bearings and she's Okay, which door do I need 1:09:01.280 --> 1:09:04.679 to go in? How do I do this? Or actually 1:09:04.720 --> 1:09:09.639 just needs to see you know, a friendly face or 1:09:10.000 --> 1:09:12.080 you know, have someone tell her that it's okay to 1:09:12.160 --> 1:09:15.800 not listen to what they have to say to her. Um, 1:09:15.840 --> 1:09:20.560 and it's okay to not internalize that, which you know, UM, 1:09:21.760 --> 1:09:24.960 I think it is probably very very hard when you're 1:09:25.040 --> 1:09:29.760 already in a somewhat emotionally frauds because how could how 1:09:29.760 --> 1:09:33.679 could people who want to start escorting what what would 1:09:33.680 --> 1:09:36.519 be the best way that they could go about doing that? 1:09:36.720 --> 1:09:38.880 Or learning more information about how to do it and 1:09:39.479 --> 1:09:41.880 the different places that that allow it and well not 1:09:41.960 --> 1:09:46.000 not allowed, but like the different places where different groups 1:09:46.000 --> 1:09:50.439 that help facilitate uh this type of work. Yeah, so 1:09:50.600 --> 1:09:54.479 I mean, I think there there isn't necessarily that I'm 1:09:54.520 --> 1:09:57.439 aware of one sort of national site, but I think, UM, 1:09:57.479 --> 1:10:04.960 a lot of individual sort of local providers have clinic escorts. UM. 1:10:05.000 --> 1:10:09.080 I know that if you most like most, if not many, 1:10:09.120 --> 1:10:15.600 Planned parenthoods will have um, you know, a clinic escort program. 1:10:15.640 --> 1:10:18.080 And so I think you know, sometimes your best that 1:10:18.200 --> 1:10:20.840 maybe just to google you know, clinic escort in my 1:10:21.000 --> 1:10:26.839 area or contact a provider in your area to say, hey, 1:10:26.880 --> 1:10:30.920 how do I get involved? Um, because you know, at 1:10:31.000 --> 1:10:33.920 least in my area where I where I live, there 1:10:34.040 --> 1:10:36.120 is one that sort of covers the area, but it 1:10:36.479 --> 1:10:40.320 is by no means nationwide, and there definitely are sort 1:10:40.360 --> 1:10:42.960 of localized groups that do it. So I think it 1:10:43.080 --> 1:10:45.919 may be just a matter of reaching, you know, googling 1:10:46.400 --> 1:10:49.759 the clinic escorts or reaching out to your local Planned 1:10:49.760 --> 1:10:53.919 parenthood or if there's another abortion provider in your community 1:10:53.920 --> 1:10:57.080 that isn't planned PARENTO, because there are still many that 1:10:57.160 --> 1:11:01.040 are not in parented uh that you know they may 1:11:02.800 --> 1:11:04.920 And I guess my other thing is so for people 1:11:04.960 --> 1:11:09.760 who for whatever reason can't to escorting but want to 1:11:09.800 --> 1:11:13.479 help support, I mean it basically people who want to 1:11:13.520 --> 1:11:16.120 support the providers and the people who need these services, 1:11:16.240 --> 1:11:19.280 UM is like, yeah, what what would you recommend that 1:11:19.320 --> 1:11:23.320 they do? So there are also similarly to to those 1:11:23.560 --> 1:11:27.879 those groups, there's UM there's abortion funds throughout the country 1:11:28.160 --> 1:11:31.720 UM that whether you know, many of them are you know, 1:11:31.760 --> 1:11:37.000 sort of dedicated to individual areas, like local areas, but 1:11:37.120 --> 1:11:39.960 you can look up the abortion fund in your area 1:11:40.360 --> 1:11:43.639 and that is a you know, an organization that will 1:11:43.680 --> 1:11:48.599 actually take donations from from individuals who want to help 1:11:49.080 --> 1:11:52.600 UM and provide sir, you know, provide financial support to 1:11:52.680 --> 1:11:55.320 women who are seeking abortion, whether they it's because they 1:11:55.320 --> 1:11:59.040 have to travel out of state, uh or to somewhere 1:11:59.680 --> 1:12:02.479 even within their state but not where they live in 1:12:02.600 --> 1:12:06.360 order to to actually obtain an abortion UM. And you know, 1:12:06.439 --> 1:12:11.360 because many women who are are seeking seeking termination services, 1:12:11.720 --> 1:12:14.200 they can't always pay for them, you know, especially if 1:12:14.240 --> 1:12:17.520 they're publicly insured. You know, a lot of public insurance, 1:12:17.840 --> 1:12:21.600 you know, federal dollars cannot be spent on abortion services, 1:12:21.760 --> 1:12:25.240 and so they can also help pay for the abortion 1:12:25.320 --> 1:12:28.840 for those individuals, if you It's it's a little bit 1:12:29.720 --> 1:12:32.960 um tougher now that we're in you know, sort of 1:12:32.960 --> 1:12:36.480 in the midst of coronavirus pandemic. There are some organizations 1:12:36.479 --> 1:12:39.519 that also if you live in an area that where 1:12:39.560 --> 1:12:42.840 there are providers and there are people potentially traveling from 1:12:42.880 --> 1:12:45.320 out of state, especially if you're in an area where 1:12:45.360 --> 1:12:49.400 there is a provider who provides um, you know what 1:12:49.439 --> 1:12:53.880 they call, you know, later term services for people who 1:12:54.080 --> 1:12:57.440 you know, find out that there's a major genetic abnormality 1:12:57.479 --> 1:12:59.599 along far into the pregnancy or whatever and they need 1:12:59.640 --> 1:13:04.040 to term their pregnancy. UM, you know, there are organizations 1:13:04.080 --> 1:13:08.080 that will actually help you volunteer to house them or 1:13:08.200 --> 1:13:13.880 provide even transportation services to and from appointments if if 1:13:13.920 --> 1:13:16.960 you so choose. But then you know, there's also all 1:13:17.000 --> 1:13:19.080 of the sort of national if if you're looking to 1:13:19.240 --> 1:13:22.479 kind of get more you know, involved at the sort 1:13:22.520 --> 1:13:26.760 of overarching national legal level. UM. Certainly there are a 1:13:26.840 --> 1:13:29.880 number of organizations, whether it's you know, the Planned Parenthood 1:13:29.880 --> 1:13:34.640 Federation or may Rail or any of those organizations that 1:13:34.720 --> 1:13:38.120 you could certainly don't to as well. Yeah, we will, 1:13:38.120 --> 1:13:41.439 we will will put some of the links in in 1:13:41.560 --> 1:13:45.000 theset description. And I'm sure that there are many things 1:13:45.040 --> 1:13:47.400 I forgot, but those are the ones that jump to 1:13:47.439 --> 1:13:51.320 mind right now. People listening to this, please like go 1:13:51.760 --> 1:13:59.080 help in whatever way you can, because like, if like 1:13:59.400 --> 1:14:02.200 if a wition services continue to be a thing where 1:14:03.479 --> 1:14:06.680 them existing is a small number of volunteers, they're not 1:14:06.720 --> 1:14:13.559 going to So yeah, please please do that. Yeah, Tanya, Tanya, 1:14:13.640 --> 1:14:15.760 thank you, thank you so much for joining us, Thank 1:14:15.760 --> 1:14:18.680 you for having me. Yeah. Yeah, this has been Make 1:14:18.720 --> 1:14:22.640 it happen here. Uh yeah, it's happening here. Do the 1:14:22.720 --> 1:14:24.960 things that you can do to make sure it doesn't. 1:14:41.000 --> 1:14:46.680 Oh yeah, it could happen here. It being a podcast 1:14:47.640 --> 1:14:52.519 hosted by myself, Christopher Wong and the minute It's inimitable, Amena, 1:14:52.560 --> 1:14:54.960 but blah blah blah blah blah, and Andrew, Andrew High, 1:14:55.160 --> 1:14:59.280 you're in charge. Thank you. Thank I almost stuck that landing. 1:14:59.320 --> 1:15:01.320 I was so still not sucking it up. Are you 1:15:01.320 --> 1:15:08.040 guys proud the way there being consistent and I consisted, 1:15:08.080 --> 1:15:10.120 I mean that you funked it up again, I'm proud. Yeah. 1:15:10.120 --> 1:15:12.479 I shouldn't have tried to say inimitable. That was that 1:15:12.479 --> 1:15:14.600 that was always going to be a disaster. Yeah, it was, 1:15:14.640 --> 1:15:15.920 it was. It was. It was like one of those 1:15:15.920 --> 1:15:18.800 gymnastics landings where it's like they landed and then both 1:15:18.840 --> 1:15:20.439 your feet go in the ground and they jump and 1:15:20.479 --> 1:15:25.920 they fall. Yeah, it's very impressive stuff like that. When yeah, 1:15:26.120 --> 1:15:28.160 well all right, Andrew, what do you? What do you? 1:15:28.160 --> 1:15:29.439 What do you? What do you? What do you? What 1:15:29.479 --> 1:15:31.639 do you? What do you got for us today? Right? 1:15:32.160 --> 1:15:37.479 So for this UM, this this episode's topic. UM. The 1:15:37.520 --> 1:15:46.559 story begins with reddittun god, that's not a great sign. Well, 1:15:46.760 --> 1:15:54.600 reddits and Twitter? Yeah, the the two horsemen UM and 1:15:54.800 --> 1:16:00.960 the discourse that occurred on those sites. Uh a while 1:16:01.000 --> 1:16:07.439 ago UM, particularly related to like infrastructure and infrastructure under 1:16:07.600 --> 1:16:12.840 anarchis right. I mean, we all know the basic principles 1:16:12.400 --> 1:16:18.320 a society UM related to autonomy allow people to define 1:16:18.880 --> 1:16:23.120 themselves and organize themselves on their own terms. UM horizontalism. 1:16:23.160 --> 1:16:25.960 You know, people able to organize so that no one 1:16:26.040 --> 1:16:31.200 dominates anyone else and no one exercises power UM move others. 1:16:32.560 --> 1:16:35.480 Mutual aid, so the people able to help one another voluntarily, 1:16:35.920 --> 1:16:40.080 their bonds of solidarity and networks of generosity that keep 1:16:40.120 --> 1:16:43.880 the social fabric together. You know. Free association allows people 1:16:43.920 --> 1:16:46.680 to cooperate with who they want to and how they 1:16:46.720 --> 1:16:51.840 see fit and also converously you know, refuse and disassociate 1:16:51.880 --> 1:16:54.479 when needs to be. Yeah, that's a key one that 1:16:54.600 --> 1:16:59.040 people don't emphasize it. Yeah, the free disassociation to not 1:16:59.160 --> 1:17:03.160 be associated it with certain people. Yeah yeah, I mean, 1:17:03.320 --> 1:17:06.040 because you can't freely associate. If you don't have the 1:17:06.080 --> 1:17:09.120 option to freely disassociate, it's like running into a cage 1:17:09.200 --> 1:17:12.760 and then you can't exit. Everyone should be able to 1:17:12.760 --> 1:17:18.400 move freely as well. Can emphasize which is I think 1:17:18.400 --> 1:17:21.479 one of the things that radicalized me most was, um, 1:17:21.760 --> 1:17:25.240 the existence of borders, because to me, at least, like 1:17:25.880 --> 1:17:27.960 when you're born, you know, you have this spawn point, 1:17:28.280 --> 1:17:31.920 and it seems absurd to me that your spawn point 1:17:32.160 --> 1:17:37.519 should have so much control over you know, the outcome 1:17:37.520 --> 1:17:40.920 of your life, you know, what rights and stuff you enjoy, 1:17:41.040 --> 1:17:45.439 and where you can and can't go freely because none 1:17:45.439 --> 1:17:46.800 of us have a choice in that matter. You know, 1:17:46.800 --> 1:17:50.240 we can't exactly choose our parents or choose or you know, 1:17:50.280 --> 1:17:53.840 neighborhood or where we grew up whatever. And of course, 1:17:54.360 --> 1:17:57.160 borders of the national kind of the only ones. And 1:17:57.160 --> 1:18:00.120 I guess suppose you know, um you also put as 1:18:00.160 --> 1:18:04.640 bort as related to gender and race and citizenship, and 1:18:05.479 --> 1:18:08.720 well that's relates to borders. But yeah, and so how 1:18:08.760 --> 1:18:12.320 anarchists proposed we get to this society is first and 1:18:12.360 --> 1:18:16.599 foremost the people liberating themselves. The concept of self liberation. 1:18:17.880 --> 1:18:23.160 So people and not even speaking just in terms of workers, 1:18:23.200 --> 1:18:26.360 you know, speaking in terms of gender and sexual minorities, 1:18:27.120 --> 1:18:31.360 speaking to terms of racial groups, um, speaking in terms 1:18:31.400 --> 1:18:36.240 of disabled people. You know, they must be at the 1:18:36.280 --> 1:18:39.599 forefront of their own liberation. Freedom cannot be given, it 1:18:39.600 --> 1:18:43.840 has to be taken. And so through direct action, which 1:18:43.880 --> 1:18:51.360 is when we directly act, without the middle channels of 1:18:51.600 --> 1:18:56.120 authorities representatives, we make those changes for ourselves, and through 1:18:56.120 --> 1:19:01.800 other methods we pursue the world that we wish to 1:19:01.800 --> 1:19:05.719 live in, which is the whole prefigurative process of building 1:19:05.760 --> 1:19:08.760 a new in the shell of the old. And so 1:19:08.800 --> 1:19:12.120 I think part of the issue when it comes to 1:19:12.160 --> 1:19:16.080 discussions of anarchism and infrastructure and supply lines and all 1:19:16.120 --> 1:19:19.800 these different things, is that, um, I think people have 1:19:19.920 --> 1:19:24.000 this misconception. There's this real strange idea of what an 1:19:24.000 --> 1:19:28.000 anarchist revolution looks like. Um, where you know, we flip 1:19:28.000 --> 1:19:33.479 a switch just overnight and boom anarchist society. We have 1:19:33.520 --> 1:19:36.960 nothing in place, We have no organizations or systems or 1:19:37.000 --> 1:19:39.760 networks in places, just boom, staff of fingers and all 1:19:39.760 --> 1:19:42.479 of a sudden we are all living under anarchy. But 1:19:42.560 --> 1:19:49.320 in reality, um, you know, as Kirpotkin expressed, there's no 1:19:49.439 --> 1:19:53.080 fallacy as harmful as the fallacy the One day revolution. 1:19:54.520 --> 1:19:57.040 Obviously there's going to be a transition. UM. In fact, 1:19:57.040 --> 1:19:58.920 a lot of people like to define anarchism as an 1:19:58.960 --> 1:20:04.519 ongoing process moving food and food towards the ideal of anarchy. UM. 1:20:04.640 --> 1:20:06.479 The whole idea is not whether or not there will 1:20:06.520 --> 1:20:09.760 be a transitional society or kind of transition that will be. 1:20:10.479 --> 1:20:13.000 And so in this period of transition is when we 1:20:13.000 --> 1:20:16.400 would be engaging in the different forms of social experimentation 1:20:17.080 --> 1:20:22.960 to UM manifest you know, anarchist principles in every facet 1:20:23.080 --> 1:20:28.760 of life. And of course this is a process will 1:20:28.840 --> 1:20:35.439 involved engaging with local conditions and UM local people and 1:20:36.120 --> 1:20:41.960 allowing those communities, those individuals to the two in for themselves, 1:20:42.080 --> 1:20:46.559 what structures and systems are put in place. Part of 1:20:46.560 --> 1:20:50.680 the struggle is going to involve mirroring the society that 1:20:50.720 --> 1:20:54.599 we wish to create. So for our final goal is 1:20:54.800 --> 1:20:58.960 you know, communistic and archistic society. That our methods must 1:20:58.960 --> 1:21:02.640 be communistic kind as an artistic as possible, basic you know, 1:21:03.600 --> 1:21:07.240 duality of means and ends. So when we speak of 1:21:07.320 --> 1:21:11.439 supply lines, when we speak of infrastructure, the reality is 1:21:11.520 --> 1:21:15.280 that existing infrastructure is not going to disippay overnight. Were 1:21:15.280 --> 1:21:18.320 are starting from complete scratch. This isn't a new you know, 1:21:18.479 --> 1:21:21.040 minecraft world that we have to go and punch some 1:21:21.080 --> 1:21:25.480 trees and start society all over again. Revolution is destructive, 1:21:25.960 --> 1:21:31.080 but it's also constructive and transformative. So I mean, we're 1:21:31.080 --> 1:21:33.360 not going to get rid of all experts and all expertise. 1:21:33.760 --> 1:21:35.320 We're not going to be floundering to figure out how 1:21:35.360 --> 1:21:38.120 to make penicillin. You know, people in all fields and 1:21:38.160 --> 1:21:43.360 all industries and all layers and all um you know 1:21:43.400 --> 1:21:46.519 backgrounds are going to be involved in the process, you know, 1:21:46.560 --> 1:21:51.080 adapting their work places, adapting the industries towards sustainable and 1:21:51.160 --> 1:21:53.960 anarchic ends. And it's a process that is going on 1:21:54.040 --> 1:21:57.519 now and will continue because if you know, we look 1:21:57.560 --> 1:22:03.479 at at revolution as a combination of I think Eric 1:22:03.520 --> 1:22:07.439 Ollen right, he had in his book Envisioning Real Real 1:22:07.600 --> 1:22:14.080 Utopias three basic concepts of transformation. You had ruptural transformation, 1:22:14.439 --> 1:22:20.120 interstitial transformation, and symbiotic transformation. And so interstitial revolution is 1:22:20.160 --> 1:22:23.720 basically the idea. Um It's basically a mirror of you know, 1:22:23.880 --> 1:22:27.880 prefigurative politics as a theoretical means of societal transformation through 1:22:27.920 --> 1:22:34.360 progressively and strategically enlarging spaces of social empowerment and ruptural 1:22:34.720 --> 1:22:39.880 transformation is of course, I guess, the dichotomy between the 1:22:39.880 --> 1:22:45.280 insurrectionists and everybody else, you know, where you have these 1:22:45.360 --> 1:22:50.599 moments of social outposts, these moments of rupture, where social 1:22:50.680 --> 1:22:58.200 forms and social developments you know, undertaken and we sort 1:22:58.200 --> 1:23:01.840 of figure out how we are, or rather we directly 1:23:01.920 --> 1:23:05.559 fight back against you know, the systems are in place. 1:23:06.880 --> 1:23:10.240 I think rupture is one of the more exciting forms. 1:23:10.360 --> 1:23:12.320 It's a kind of form of revolution that people tend 1:23:12.360 --> 1:23:14.680 to think of when they think of the tomb revolution, 1:23:15.040 --> 1:23:17.640 this idea of you know, all these this is this 1:23:17.720 --> 1:23:22.880 massive people that's crowd of people storming the bastille or whatever. Um. 1:23:22.880 --> 1:23:27.680 But the real work of transformission is the stuff that occurs, 1:23:27.720 --> 1:23:33.040 you know, prior to and post those moments of rupture. Well, 1:23:33.080 --> 1:23:35.000 I I one of the terms I tend to like 1:23:35.280 --> 1:23:37.679 that I've been thinking and reading about a lot is 1:23:37.680 --> 1:23:40.160 is shatter zones. And these are this is like the 1:23:40.200 --> 1:23:44.439 post rupture, right, These are the areas where state power 1:23:44.800 --> 1:23:48.799 kind of collapses, or at least pieces of state power collapse, 1:23:49.360 --> 1:23:52.040 and it's you know, the the shatter zones were kind 1:23:52.080 --> 1:23:54.360 of you you see, the state retreat in the wake 1:23:54.400 --> 1:23:57.920 of a rupture are where very terrible things tend to happen, 1:23:57.960 --> 1:24:00.479 but they are also these zones of possibility. You know. 1:24:00.960 --> 1:24:03.439 It's the places. It's the kind of place where you 1:24:03.439 --> 1:24:05.479 you can get an ethnic cleansing, and it's the kind 1:24:05.520 --> 1:24:08.599 of place where you can get um rojava, you know, 1:24:08.760 --> 1:24:10.960 like it's it's there. They're these kind of zones of 1:24:11.000 --> 1:24:14.719 possibility in the wake of of rupture, and I think 1:24:14.840 --> 1:24:17.880 that's you know, a lot of the a lot of 1:24:17.920 --> 1:24:22.839 the revolutionary kind of um imagery focuses on on the rupture, 1:24:23.040 --> 1:24:28.160 but the future is decided in the shatter zones, you know. Yeah. 1:24:28.240 --> 1:24:31.439 And I think what people miss as well is the 1:24:31.479 --> 1:24:35.120 stuff that builds up to those you know, shatter zoons, 1:24:35.360 --> 1:24:42.360 which is that their organizations, their affinity groups, their networks 1:24:42.400 --> 1:24:45.639 and structures in place that are able to support those zoons, 1:24:45.880 --> 1:24:48.680 that are able to you know, when those ruptures are 1:24:48.720 --> 1:24:52.439 could support the people taking part in those fights and 1:24:52.640 --> 1:24:57.320 expand you know, those zoons of possibilities. Yeah, I mean 1:24:57.400 --> 1:24:58.840 This is the kind of thing where like if you're 1:24:58.840 --> 1:25:02.960 looking at what what causes the difference between you know, 1:25:03.000 --> 1:25:07.920 these disastrous, uh like disasters that happened kind of in 1:25:07.920 --> 1:25:10.360 the wake of a rupture, horrible crimes against humanity, and 1:25:10.479 --> 1:25:14.400 situations where something better gets built. Like again to use 1:25:14.439 --> 1:25:18.000 the example of Rajava. The reason why that happened there 1:25:18.040 --> 1:25:20.639 and why isis didn't win in that terrain is that 1:25:21.120 --> 1:25:25.080 groups of activists had been organizing in a variety of 1:25:25.120 --> 1:25:28.200 ways for years in that area, and so when the 1:25:28.240 --> 1:25:31.639 state collapsed, there were armed groups, and those armed groups 1:25:31.640 --> 1:25:34.720 were supported by farming cooperatives and groups of people who 1:25:34.720 --> 1:25:37.479 had been organizing to provide supplies to each other and 1:25:38.200 --> 1:25:44.240 um like community organizations like focused on social like development 1:25:44.280 --> 1:25:47.840 and aid like there was. It's it's yeah, there's an 1:25:49.080 --> 1:25:52.320 exactly exactly and that's that's what when you know, things 1:25:52.360 --> 1:25:57.559 fall down and you could catch Yeah. And I think 1:25:57.560 --> 1:26:00.080 that's also because there's another way this can go to 1:26:00.240 --> 1:26:03.160 where it's like you get a lot of moments where 1:26:04.320 --> 1:26:06.880 you know, like like May sixty eight in France looks 1:26:06.920 --> 1:26:10.800 like this right where like like the like the prime 1:26:10.840 --> 1:26:14.559 minister at the present, I forget what deal was at 1:26:14.560 --> 1:26:17.439 that time. But that's like you like literally like the 1:26:17.520 --> 1:26:21.400 country's leaders are flying out of the country on helicopters 1:26:21.880 --> 1:26:23.439 because I think everything is going to collapse and then 1:26:23.439 --> 1:26:26.200 it just sort of doesn't. And I think one of 1:26:26.240 --> 1:26:28.360 one of the ways you get you get this period 1:26:28.400 --> 1:26:32.519 that looks like rupture but then everything sort of closes 1:26:32.560 --> 1:26:35.400 back up in on itself is if those networks aren't 1:26:35.439 --> 1:26:38.879 strong enough and you don't have some kind of sufficient 1:26:38.960 --> 1:26:41.759 level of organization, like there there isn't there isn't anything. 1:26:42.920 --> 1:26:45.040 It's like it's like you have these moments where the 1:26:45.040 --> 1:26:49.600 state is discredited but there's nothing to replace it, and 1:26:49.640 --> 1:26:52.720 then the and the sort of void, the void isn't 1:26:52.720 --> 1:26:57.040 strong enough to just sort of like have the state 1:26:57.080 --> 1:26:59.200 collapsed entirely. And so what you guys at this moment 1:26:59.280 --> 1:27:02.360 where it looks like everything is going to change and 1:27:02.360 --> 1:27:05.240 then nothing happens. And I think that's also a product 1:27:05.280 --> 1:27:09.439 of essentially the same thing. It's just depending on the 1:27:09.439 --> 1:27:12.280 strength of the state, you can get very different sort 1:27:12.280 --> 1:27:14.920 of outcomes from these moments where sometimes it's able to 1:27:14.920 --> 1:27:18.400 restabilize it self, sometimes it isn't. Right, Yeah, And I 1:27:18.439 --> 1:27:20.800 think we kind of saw that in a way with 1:27:21.800 --> 1:27:26.120 protests where you had this massive, massive rupture, probably the 1:27:26.200 --> 1:27:30.719 largest one of the largest American history. Um yeah, people 1:27:30.720 --> 1:27:34.440 in the streets and cities all over the country. Um 1:27:34.479 --> 1:27:37.120 it's what's the vast majority of them were just peaceful marches, 1:27:37.680 --> 1:27:40.639 but you also did have some like serious movements of rupture, 1:27:40.720 --> 1:27:45.840 like in Minneapolis and stuff. And I mean look at us, 1:27:46.479 --> 1:27:51.760 you know, two years later, and while they are you know, 1:27:52.880 --> 1:27:55.720 more community organizations, I think they're more people who are 1:27:55.720 --> 1:27:58.120 a bit more conscious, with more whale who are you know, 1:27:58.280 --> 1:28:04.200 radicalized and expanded their knowledge through that rupture, things basically 1:28:04.360 --> 1:28:07.519 went back to the way they were in a lot 1:28:07.520 --> 1:28:11.000 of ways and other ways, you know, police budgets were 1:28:11.040 --> 1:28:14.680 just increased. I think there was a current with the 1:28:14.680 --> 1:28:16.439 analogy but I'll just go to the analogy of like 1:28:16.439 --> 1:28:21.040 a hydro, where you know, the state, whatever it's attacked 1:28:21.080 --> 1:28:24.080 and stuff, it's able to just restore itself, just able 1:28:24.120 --> 1:28:27.799 to recover itself and able to like adapt to those 1:28:28.160 --> 1:28:32.439 sorts of attacks. I remember reading in Tone of Everything 1:28:32.720 --> 1:28:37.720 where the David's were talking about how the state they're 1:28:37.800 --> 1:28:39.680 using the example the American state. They were saying, you know, 1:28:40.000 --> 1:28:44.800 the American state of right is completely different in a 1:28:44.800 --> 1:28:47.599 lot of ways from the American state of the two 1:28:47.640 --> 1:28:52.400 thous you know, because the the state and statecraft is 1:28:52.680 --> 1:28:58.240 constantly evolving, constantly expanding, constantly responding to you know, the 1:28:58.280 --> 1:29:00.920 conditions that they face. We saw what happened in the 1:29:01.080 --> 1:29:04.479 twentieth century, you know, the different movements that I could 1:29:04.479 --> 1:29:07.320 in that time, the state was able to respond to 1:29:07.360 --> 1:29:17.760 those movements and adjust itself accordingly. And so obviously when 1:29:17.800 --> 1:29:22.799 we have these ruptures, we have these you know, moments 1:29:22.840 --> 1:29:26.840 of struggle, and obviously the times in between where we 1:29:26.880 --> 1:29:33.719 are prefiguring um robust systems and alternative institutions that can 1:29:33.840 --> 1:29:38.000 support people those moments of rupture. Um. Part of that 1:29:38.120 --> 1:29:45.160 isn't going to involve you know, defense, and the sue 1:29:45.280 --> 1:29:49.040 is not, oh, well, how you defend revolution? Christ to 1:29:49.080 --> 1:29:51.680 want to defend revolution, They don't know how to defend revolution. 1:29:52.160 --> 1:29:55.080 But rather part of defending it is defending it from 1:29:56.880 --> 1:30:02.120 people's attempts to seize power from the masses, from the 1:30:02.160 --> 1:30:06.400 working class. Two you know, cipher and that energy and 1:30:06.600 --> 1:30:12.960 use it for the ends of smaller group, smaller class 1:30:13.080 --> 1:30:17.640 of you know, whether it being partties or whatever the 1:30:17.640 --> 1:30:21.240 case may be. Yeah, there's something there I think you're 1:30:21.320 --> 1:30:25.080 going back to like thinking about borders and freedom of movement, 1:30:25.080 --> 1:30:28.160 because if you look at like both the USSR and 1:30:28.240 --> 1:30:32.160 China do this very quickly, which is that, okay, so 1:30:32.240 --> 1:30:34.680 you you you you have the communist revolution, okay, and 1:30:34.760 --> 1:30:37.160 theoretically class and power, and then like the first thing 1:30:37.200 --> 1:30:39.120 they do is set up in turn of border controls 1:30:40.240 --> 1:30:44.800 and these like like I mean in China that they're 1:30:44.880 --> 1:30:51.479 technically like the the prohibition on movement is like technically over, 1:30:51.600 --> 1:30:55.800 but the like the household registration system still exists, and 1:30:55.840 --> 1:30:57.920 it's still determines whether you where you can get benefits 1:30:57.960 --> 1:30:59.640 and how you get benefits and whether you can live 1:30:59.640 --> 1:31:03.080 in a say and like what like how what's so 1:31:03.200 --> 1:31:05.639 security you can access? Can you buy houses? Things like that, 1:31:06.240 --> 1:31:11.560 like that kind of stuff. If if you're not if 1:31:11.600 --> 1:31:15.080 if what you're doing is just putting a group of 1:31:15.120 --> 1:31:19.080 people in power and not actually putting you know, like 1:31:19.479 --> 1:31:21.360 if you want to talk about it in class terms, right, 1:31:21.360 --> 1:31:25.639 it's like, okay, either the actual working class governs itself, 1:31:25.800 --> 1:31:30.000 like the class in the entirety collectively makes decisions, or 1:31:30.240 --> 1:31:32.400 you've just created to do like buacrat class. And if 1:31:32.400 --> 1:31:33.840 you wind up with a new baruracract classes like yeah, 1:31:33.880 --> 1:31:36.040 immediately look at what happens. It's like, oh, hey, a 1:31:36.080 --> 1:31:38.360 bunch of people have now decided that, like you can't 1:31:38.439 --> 1:31:40.960 leave your home province because you don't have the right registration. 1:31:41.600 --> 1:31:44.799 And it's like okay. It's like that kind of reminds 1:31:44.800 --> 1:31:46.400 me what you were saying about, you know, if all 1:31:46.439 --> 1:31:48.519 the looking classes was met with the steam reminds you 1:31:48.520 --> 1:31:51.720 of the video I was watching last night actually from 1:31:51.720 --> 1:31:58.639 this Youtuba Anak Daniel Brian Um and he was talking 1:31:58.680 --> 1:32:05.920 about I believe how the state is necessarily um exclusive. 1:32:06.560 --> 1:32:12.000 If everybody holds power, then the state necessarily um must 1:32:12.040 --> 1:32:14.519 be wiped out, must be wipe to it. If not, 1:32:14.760 --> 1:32:17.519 it's going to try to reclaim its monopoly on power, 1:32:17.520 --> 1:32:23.120 it's monopoly on violence. UM. It cannot exist without people 1:32:23.400 --> 1:32:31.000 under it, you know. And so as you know, we 1:32:31.000 --> 1:32:33.799 are engaging in this as we are you know, organizing strikes, 1:32:33.840 --> 1:32:39.400 creating networks of activists, creating assemblies UM, creating you know, 1:32:39.560 --> 1:32:45.080 self financed schools and social centers and co operatives and 1:32:46.040 --> 1:32:51.800 all these different forms of infrastructure that can weather and 1:32:51.920 --> 1:32:58.560 exists under capitalism, but serve as prefigurations of all potential 1:32:58.720 --> 1:33:03.639 beyond capitalism. And so I guess the pivot um back 1:33:03.640 --> 1:33:06.839 to the topic I was speaking of in the beginning 1:33:07.320 --> 1:33:11.800 with regard to infrastructure. You know, all of history books 1:33:11.800 --> 1:33:14.719 and stuff, general history books tend to speak of the government, 1:33:15.000 --> 1:33:18.200 centralized government, states and souff arising all do they need 1:33:18.240 --> 1:33:21.920 to build and maintain like these big infrastructure projects. They 1:33:21.920 --> 1:33:25.280 tend to use example of irrigation. It's taken for granted, 1:33:25.439 --> 1:33:28.760 you know, staken as a given that bureaucracies and such 1:33:28.800 --> 1:33:32.080 were necessary for organizing these large populations, and that while 1:33:32.160 --> 1:33:34.080 you know, the Galter and principles may thrive in a 1:33:34.120 --> 1:33:38.040 small scale, they just cannot scale up when populations get 1:33:38.080 --> 1:33:41.240 any bigger than like a small band of people. But 1:33:41.800 --> 1:33:46.520 what we do know is that complex rural irrigation systems 1:33:46.560 --> 1:33:49.679 and the Galter and urban decision making systems have occuld 1:33:49.920 --> 1:33:52.960 in you know, human history, that our answers were able 1:33:53.000 --> 1:33:56.640 to organize those those institutions without the state, without a 1:33:56.680 --> 1:34:02.760 centralized body, with a h with with cosive you know, authority. 1:34:05.160 --> 1:34:08.120 There's also like this implicit assumption, you know, when people 1:34:08.120 --> 1:34:13.840 make these assolutions, that societies must necessarily grow and endlessly grew, 1:34:14.200 --> 1:34:17.000 and that we cannot choose to limit our scale in 1:34:17.040 --> 1:34:22.040 any way to avoid centralization, to enhance eqalitarianism. You know, 1:34:22.160 --> 1:34:25.479 we can't skeeal ourselves down to more manageable levels a 1:34:25.840 --> 1:34:30.880 d growth um. And as we've see, that's just not true. 1:34:31.000 --> 1:34:35.760 You know, we are capable of making those shifts. You know, 1:34:36.320 --> 1:34:40.599 large scale projects like irrigation or or you know, supply 1:34:40.760 --> 1:34:44.439 lines and stuff. They do require coordination, but coordination is 1:34:44.479 --> 1:34:49.599 not synonymous with the state. Coordination is not synonymous with hierarchy. Yeah, 1:34:49.640 --> 1:34:52.120 and that's something that's interest It's interesting to me the 1:34:52.160 --> 1:34:56.080 way people, like how badly people think about that because 1:34:56.920 --> 1:34:59.280 like even even even in terms of sort of like 1:34:59.479 --> 1:35:03.840 im berking tal is trade right, like that kind of 1:35:03.880 --> 1:35:07.240 like long range coordination, long range like moving goods across 1:35:07.280 --> 1:35:12.880 the world has like it's but mostly not been states 1:35:12.920 --> 1:35:16.519 doing that. Like it's you know, and you can talk 1:35:16.520 --> 1:35:19.400 about like, okay, whatever, it's like it's however, you sort 1:35:19.400 --> 1:35:21.559 of want to think about the market mechanisms here, but like, yeah, 1:35:21.600 --> 1:35:25.559 like people have been people, people have been moving stuff 1:35:25.600 --> 1:35:27.920 from one side of the world to the other, like 1:35:28.120 --> 1:35:30.519 essentially without the state having anything to do with it 1:35:30.640 --> 1:35:34.680 for like as long as there have been people exactly. 1:35:35.520 --> 1:35:37.760 I think that's one of the things that frustrates me 1:35:37.840 --> 1:35:41.200 most about the discourse about like any kind of post capitalism, 1:35:41.320 --> 1:35:46.080 is this um this purposefully. I think in a lot 1:35:46.080 --> 1:35:51.360 of cases like malignant ly um inaccurate um attitude that 1:35:51.479 --> 1:35:57.840 like the idea of people like exchanging goods and services 1:35:57.840 --> 1:36:01.120 is fundamentally capitalist. That the idea of people like organizing 1:36:01.120 --> 1:36:03.880 that the that like a factory right is something that 1:36:03.960 --> 1:36:07.240 has to be has to be either organized under capitalist 1:36:07.280 --> 1:36:13.200 models or under state socialist models exactly as if people 1:36:13.360 --> 1:36:15.960 haven't done it in other ways. Right, this is not theoretical. 1:36:16.000 --> 1:36:17.800 We're not like trying to pose it like, well maybe 1:36:17.800 --> 1:36:19.680 it could work this way. It's like, no, motherfucker's have 1:36:19.760 --> 1:36:26.160 done this. Yeah, we have practical examples even, Yeah, because 1:36:26.160 --> 1:36:29.080 stuff like the mon Dragon Corporation and whatnot, Like it's 1:36:29.080 --> 1:36:33.280 not um, it's like it's this is not like theoretical 1:36:33.360 --> 1:36:35.960 stuff that we're talking about. I was thinking more long 1:36:36.040 --> 1:36:39.240 lines of what happened in Argentina. Yeah, yeah, you don't 1:36:41.200 --> 1:36:45.519 something going back as you know, like the CNT get 1:36:45.600 --> 1:36:49.519 into Yeah yeah, yeah, like that's something. Well, I mean, 1:36:49.520 --> 1:36:50.920 I think I think part of what's happening there is. 1:36:50.960 --> 1:36:54.679 It's like, yeah, like people have run factories in other ways, 1:36:54.720 --> 1:36:56.880 and every single time they try to do it, every 1:36:56.920 --> 1:36:59.479 other political faction on Earth sets out, set aside all 1:36:59.479 --> 1:37:01.840 their political which just goes and tries to kill them, 1:37:01.880 --> 1:37:06.280 and it's like this is not that's that's true. That's true. 1:37:06.439 --> 1:37:08.800 I'm also reminded of the fact that you know part 1:37:08.880 --> 1:37:11.680 of what happened and probably assue that you know, it 1:37:11.760 --> 1:37:15.639 could in Argentina and as I could elsewhere. Um is 1:37:16.479 --> 1:37:19.760 this concept that I think Michael albert Um talks about 1:37:19.800 --> 1:37:22.559 a lot, this idea how they coordinates a class and 1:37:22.600 --> 1:37:24.839 the issues that arise out of that sort of coordinates 1:37:24.840 --> 1:37:29.360 a class, And so I think part of that sort 1:37:29.360 --> 1:37:31.560 of organization is going to involve confronting that, you know, 1:37:31.600 --> 1:37:33.760 we tend to think of it in terms of, you know, 1:37:34.120 --> 1:37:37.600 the capitalist ownership and getting rid of the capitalist but 1:37:39.040 --> 1:37:43.320 there's you know, a lot more play than than just 1:37:43.320 --> 1:37:48.719 just the capitalist kind of the firm is the firm. 1:37:48.840 --> 1:37:52.040 I think it's also like this sort of assumption that 1:37:52.360 --> 1:37:55.720 people aren't capable of like taking any kind of you know, 1:37:56.280 --> 1:37:58.120 I think there's this kind of way to submition that 1:37:58.200 --> 1:38:02.759 people aren't capable of taking initiative that people aren't capable 1:38:02.800 --> 1:38:06.200 of of, you know, um, seeing the needs around them 1:38:06.240 --> 1:38:10.000 and organizing to fulfill them. So when people end up, 1:38:10.160 --> 1:38:12.640 you know, trying to do these scultures and stuff with 1:38:12.760 --> 1:38:14.280 archists like oh well, how are you going to do 1:38:14.360 --> 1:38:19.680 with garbage? It's like people don't like garbage around them, 1:38:19.840 --> 1:38:22.839 you know, which is why we have a sanitation system, 1:38:22.840 --> 1:38:25.240 which is why we have corbage disposal systems in place. 1:38:26.960 --> 1:38:32.519 But you know, under this system, because everything is all 1:38:32.560 --> 1:38:35.519 the costs of you know, our consumption and stuff are 1:38:35.560 --> 1:38:39.160 externalized and hidden, people don't have to think about the 1:38:39.200 --> 1:38:43.360 ways that you know, our actions are affecting our local 1:38:44.560 --> 1:38:47.240 um you know ecosystem. You know, we see that we 1:38:47.360 --> 1:38:49.640 pay other countries to or at least one like I 1:38:49.720 --> 1:38:53.880 say a week um, the US, the USPS, other countries. 1:38:54.400 --> 1:38:56.040 I mean, we have a problem and in turned out 1:38:56.080 --> 1:38:58.920 as well, where all of our waste um just gets 1:38:59.000 --> 1:39:03.400 dumped like right next amount groove and there's a community 1:39:03.600 --> 1:39:08.759 right opposite the highway where the dump is located, and 1:39:09.600 --> 1:39:11.720 you know they burnt garbage day and it's like the 1:39:12.000 --> 1:39:14.439 bunt garbage is like a constant smell of boont garbage 1:39:14.439 --> 1:39:16.920 around that community and it's of course the most impoverished 1:39:16.920 --> 1:39:22.400 community in the country, and it's it's a whole thing. Um, 1:39:22.400 --> 1:39:27.240 But I digress. You know, when we aren't able to 1:39:27.479 --> 1:39:31.599 just you know, externalize the costs of you know, how 1:39:31.640 --> 1:39:35.880 we live, communities are able to you know, notice how 1:39:36.000 --> 1:39:38.280 to you know, who notice the problem and figure out 1:39:38.280 --> 1:39:40.320 who used to handle it, you know, whether it be 1:39:41.120 --> 1:39:44.679 um small rewards people who volunteer to you know, deal 1:39:44.760 --> 1:39:51.240 with trash um or you know, just there's people who 1:39:51.320 --> 1:39:55.080 enjoy doing that as well, you know, UM and the 1:39:55.120 --> 1:40:01.639 same goes for other undesirable jobs or you know, people 1:40:01.680 --> 1:40:04.440 have decided to go on like a routating basis. And 1:40:04.479 --> 1:40:06.080 the reality is, you know, we don't have to like 1:40:06.240 --> 1:40:12.320 define our lives around a career, so you know, a 1:40:12.360 --> 1:40:15.040 person doesn't have to be entirely like a garbage collector. 1:40:15.800 --> 1:40:17.599 On top of that, you know, as we scale down 1:40:17.640 --> 1:40:20.639 the mount of garbage we produce, that task would become 1:40:20.680 --> 1:40:23.720 you know, less and less necessary. Yeah, so you know 1:40:23.760 --> 1:40:27.320 what waste infrastructure people are able to take care of that. 1:40:27.400 --> 1:40:30.599 You know, we can't externalize those sorts of issues. UM 1:40:30.760 --> 1:40:35.120 with food infrastructure, you know, we're able to like for example, 1:40:35.160 --> 1:40:38.040 in in the title Hills region of what is now Kenya. 1:40:38.320 --> 1:40:41.360 You know, people were able to create these complex irrigation 1:40:41.640 --> 1:40:44.920 systems that you know, lasted hundreds of years before you know, 1:40:45.000 --> 1:40:49.160 colonial states moved in and ended these agricultural practices. You know, 1:40:49.200 --> 1:40:51.600 the back then, you know, the households would share the 1:40:51.680 --> 1:40:54.000 day to day means and the uns of that irrigation infrastructure. 1:40:54.320 --> 1:40:56.160 You know, everyone will take care of the part of 1:40:56.200 --> 1:40:59.360 the infrastructure that was closest where they lived. And you know, 1:40:59.720 --> 1:41:04.880 as it was commons, people enjoyed it in common, people 1:41:05.200 --> 1:41:11.840 maintained it in common, people benefited in common. People will 1:41:11.840 --> 1:41:17.960 also come together um periodically for like major repairs. And 1:41:18.000 --> 1:41:21.759 it was a form of collective, socially motivated rule work 1:41:22.320 --> 1:41:26.000 that we see in many other you know, essentialized societies. 1:41:26.320 --> 1:41:32.080 And often he had um conversations where I often read about, 1:41:32.439 --> 1:41:36.280 you know, these different societies and even on the capitalism 1:41:36.320 --> 1:41:40.920 you have communities that you know, when someone needs somewhere 1:41:40.920 --> 1:41:43.120 to live, the whole community gets together and helps them 1:41:43.120 --> 1:41:45.920 build their house. And when someone else needs somewhere to live, 1:41:45.960 --> 1:41:48.240 you know, everyone gets together and builds their houps and 1:41:48.240 --> 1:41:51.000 so on and so forth. You know, people already doing 1:41:51.080 --> 1:41:53.920 this in parts of the world. These systems already in 1:41:53.960 --> 1:41:56.560 place in parts of the world, these sort of reciprocal 1:41:57.760 --> 1:42:02.720 networks of of of support UM. And I mean whether 1:42:02.760 --> 1:42:07.600 you're talking transportation or power, or communications, or housing or 1:42:07.600 --> 1:42:12.599 food or healthcare, there's a precedent set. You know. These 1:42:12.600 --> 1:42:15.760 presidents may have certain flows, but we could study them, 1:42:15.840 --> 1:42:20.439 we can learn from them, and we could establish something better. 1:42:21.000 --> 1:42:23.200 You know. For example, like as we mentioned earlier in 1:42:23.200 --> 1:42:25.880 Anarchists Spain, Right and Felt. During the Spanish Civil War, 1:42:26.479 --> 1:42:31.000 Barcelona's Medical Syndicate, which is organized largely by anarchists, managed 1:42:31.040 --> 1:42:35.560 eighteen hospitals, six of which they had created, seventeen sanatoriums, 1:42:35.920 --> 1:42:40.360 twenty two clinics, six psychiatric established ones, three nurseries, and 1:42:40.400 --> 1:42:44.879 one motility hospital. Whenever they had a request, the syndicate 1:42:44.920 --> 1:42:49.320 would send doctors to places in need, because medicine was 1:42:49.360 --> 1:42:51.600 considered to be in suis of the community, not the 1:42:51.600 --> 1:42:54.320 other way around. You know. Funds these clinics would come 1:42:54.320 --> 1:42:59.640 from the contributions of like local municipalities, and this syndicate 1:43:00.280 --> 1:43:05.080 UM had a health workers union that included eight thousand 1:43:05.200 --> 1:43:11.760 health workers dying, operated three six health centers and distributed 1:43:11.880 --> 1:43:15.519 through Catalonia and fried Health get to everyone in the region. 1:43:17.720 --> 1:43:21.080 And these syndicates would send delegates you know, um to 1:43:21.240 --> 1:43:23.439 Barcelona and they would be able to deal with common 1:43:23.439 --> 1:43:27.720 problems and implement common plans. But every department was both 1:43:27.760 --> 1:43:33.880 autonomous but also not isolated, so they supported one another 1:43:34.360 --> 1:43:38.240 where needs to be and under the CNT. You know, 1:43:38.280 --> 1:43:45.400 we also see like lands being taken by peasants syndicates um, 1:43:45.960 --> 1:43:52.599 who would organized properties and allow equal community to take 1:43:52.640 --> 1:43:56.000 care of you know, their land and their animals and 1:43:56.120 --> 1:44:00.000 you know, their crops as needs be. Yeah, there were 1:44:00.040 --> 1:44:02.160 something I've been the more I've read about it, the 1:44:02.160 --> 1:44:06.679 more impressed I've been with the way that I guess 1:44:06.720 --> 1:44:09.640 you would call it like the like the anarchists in 1:44:09.640 --> 1:44:13.160 Spain like did basically did a universal healthcare program in 1:44:13.160 --> 1:44:16.200 one year in the middle of the civil war, and 1:44:16.280 --> 1:44:18.240 like you know, and like the I think the other 1:44:18.240 --> 1:44:19.760 thing about it that that was important is it like 1:44:19.800 --> 1:44:25.320 they were able to, like they had this whole program 1:44:25.320 --> 1:44:28.040 that was about like sending like sending doctors into the 1:44:28.040 --> 1:44:31.000 countryside to get to like into committees that have never 1:44:31.040 --> 1:44:34.439 actually had regular access to medical care before. And they're 1:44:34.479 --> 1:44:38.599 able to do this extremely quickly and had a system 1:44:38.720 --> 1:44:42.040 the benefits of which are like enormously better than like 1:44:43.000 --> 1:44:50.360 basically like if you can go find I'm forgetting the exactly, 1:44:50.760 --> 1:44:53.920 but like you can go find like their their their 1:44:53.960 --> 1:44:56.760 policy for like how much time off you can get 1:44:56.800 --> 1:44:59.479 for like an injury and stuff, and it's like, yeah, 1:44:59.520 --> 1:45:01.599 you can take you can get like six months, eight 1:45:01.600 --> 1:45:05.800 months off at like full pay, like people family will 1:45:05.800 --> 1:45:07.240 be provided for. Like they had. They had all of 1:45:07.240 --> 1:45:12.479 this just like incredible, like health care infrastructure. They they're 1:45:12.520 --> 1:45:18.280 able to set up like really really fast. Yeah, yeah, 1:45:18.400 --> 1:45:21.040 because they also had you know, these regional federations of 1:45:21.080 --> 1:45:28.160 different collectives and they were able to basically you know, 1:45:28.439 --> 1:45:34.559 distributes surplus goods and distribute as you said, healthcare, and 1:45:34.640 --> 1:45:39.040 you know, basically pool infrastructure so that everybody are the 1:45:39.040 --> 1:45:42.920 pool resources so that everybody was able to benefit. You know, 1:45:43.000 --> 1:45:46.960 they often pool resources for things where you know areas 1:45:47.000 --> 1:45:51.280 well unevenly developed, you know, so that you know, more 1:45:53.000 --> 1:45:57.520 um developed regions able to help other regions improve their infrastructure, 1:45:57.560 --> 1:46:00.760 you know, build roads and canals and hospitals as this. 1:46:02.080 --> 1:46:04.240 When I read about you know, what happened Cantonia, I'm 1:46:04.240 --> 1:46:05.880 not seeing they were perfect they definitely had a lot 1:46:05.920 --> 1:46:09.120 of issues when I read what what happened there, you know, 1:46:09.240 --> 1:46:13.760 in the midst of a civil war, Um, the possibilities 1:46:13.800 --> 1:46:23.160 that room present and what could have potentially happened further along, Um, 1:46:23.200 --> 1:46:31.240 you know, it's it's it's very inspiring. Yeah, And I 1:46:31.280 --> 1:46:34.600 think it goes back to the sort of the the 1:46:34.680 --> 1:46:37.040 point we've been we've been talking about, which is that 1:46:37.160 --> 1:46:42.640 like the capacity to provide care for people, the capacity 1:46:42.640 --> 1:46:45.200 to do stuff like this exists in our society, right. 1:46:45.240 --> 1:46:46.760 It's not something that has to be just sort of 1:46:46.800 --> 1:46:50.640 just like completely manufactured from the ground up. It's just 1:46:50.720 --> 1:46:54.640 that the capacity is not being used to actually like 1:46:54.840 --> 1:46:57.200 give to the benefits of people what they need. Is like, well, okay, 1:46:57.200 --> 1:47:01.200 it's not a it's it's it's it's less like a 1:47:01.640 --> 1:47:04.439 process of just completely reconstructing the society and more a 1:47:04.560 --> 1:47:08.479 process of like, hey, why don't we use the resources 1:47:08.560 --> 1:47:10.680 we already have to do the things that are like 1:47:10.880 --> 1:47:16.000 actually useful. And people for some reason think that likes 1:47:16.040 --> 1:47:17.960 being true if you don't have a state, and it's 1:47:18.000 --> 1:47:24.160 like no, like the state disappearing to every single doctor 1:47:24.240 --> 1:47:27.240 suddenly vanishes from the face of the earth, Like yeah, 1:47:27.280 --> 1:47:30.120 it doesn't mean every single salentation we suddenly disappears every 1:47:30.160 --> 1:47:33.280 single construction we because suddenly disappears every single like every 1:47:33.280 --> 1:47:38.479 every teach us and disappears every Yeah. Yeah, like I said, 1:47:38.520 --> 1:47:40.559 we're not starts and from like a new Minecraft food 1:47:40.640 --> 1:47:42.160 you know, you not to go and kill the end 1:47:42.200 --> 1:47:48.160 of dragon and all that. But um, I mean, I 1:47:48.160 --> 1:47:50.600 guess that's a that's a good place to wrap up. Basically, 1:47:51.439 --> 1:47:55.840 we have these possibilities we always have, UM and in 1:47:55.840 --> 1:47:59.360 a lot of ways, the state and you know, capitalism 1:47:59.439 --> 1:48:04.679 and all these other um manifestations of hierarchy holding us back. 1:48:04.920 --> 1:48:10.519 They're preventing us from reaching all full creative the full 1:48:10.560 --> 1:48:14.880 unleashing of our creative potential as people. Yeah, we should 1:48:14.880 --> 1:48:19.680 do that instead of this. Yeah, we should do this 1:48:19.800 --> 1:48:23.320 instead of that, you know, rather, we should do that 1:48:23.400 --> 1:48:29.880 instead of this. Yeah. Well, Andrew, thank you so much. 1:48:29.880 --> 1:48:32.200 Where can where can people follow you? I believe I 1:48:32.240 --> 1:48:34.360 believe you just put out a new a new video 1:48:34.439 --> 1:48:38.800 this week if I'm remembering correctly. Yes, I don't know 1:48:38.800 --> 1:48:42.320 if they will hear this episode before my next video 1:48:42.400 --> 1:48:46.679 is out, um, but um you can find me on 1:48:46.720 --> 1:48:50.200 YouTube dot com slash Andrewism and you can find me 1:48:50.240 --> 1:48:55.639 on Twitter at under school saying true. Awesome. Alright, well 1:48:56.320 --> 1:49:18.879 go start a hospital. Lookt hi everybody, Wow, you served 1:49:19.200 --> 1:49:21.760 Jesus Sharne. Oh, I thought that's what Sophie said I 1:49:21.800 --> 1:49:23.960 should do. I should I know you did that. You 1:49:24.000 --> 1:49:26.320 did the right thing. I'm the one being an asshole here. Okay, 1:49:26.360 --> 1:49:30.439 well this is Sharine. This is also what can happen here. 1:49:30.960 --> 1:49:34.840 It's a podcast that happens every day that I am 1:49:34.920 --> 1:49:38.479 now on. Um, what is it about again? It's about 1:49:39.600 --> 1:49:44.280 everything happening here. Yes, it's about everything happening here. And 1:49:44.520 --> 1:49:48.639 this week's episode is about my neighbor Dave, who appears 1:49:48.680 --> 1:49:51.920 to be gardening. No, that's not what this show is about. 1:49:51.920 --> 1:49:56.400 I'm sorry. No, society is crumbling and how maybe we 1:49:56.439 --> 1:49:59.200 could put it back to here? There it is? That's what. Yeah, 1:49:59.400 --> 1:50:03.439 that's what. That's what is Wantinginess is going to take 1:50:03.520 --> 1:50:06.320 lead today. But we also have Christopher Long, Robert Evans, 1:50:06.439 --> 1:50:09.479 and it is me Sophie. Yes, that's good to see that. 1:50:09.520 --> 1:50:10.880 This is what I'm going to keep in mind next 1:50:10.880 --> 1:50:12.280 time if I ever have to do this again. Like 1:50:12.320 --> 1:50:14.559 what in trowing this show means? But it is a 1:50:14.640 --> 1:50:17.920 daily show so I have a lot of opportunities to 1:50:17.920 --> 1:50:21.320 get this right. Um yeah. I wanted to do something 1:50:21.320 --> 1:50:25.840 a little different today. So hopefully the listeners are okay 1:50:25.880 --> 1:50:29.800 with it, be easy on me well, and if they're not, 1:50:29.840 --> 1:50:33.160 we will simply club them into submission. Um yeah, Well 1:50:33.240 --> 1:50:36.640 I appreciate that. Um. I live for violence. That is 1:50:36.680 --> 1:50:39.800 why we've spent half of our years podcasting budget on 1:50:39.880 --> 1:50:48.320 she ailes Um. But I wanted to take a couple 1:50:48.360 --> 1:50:51.439 episodes to talk about something very important that I don't 1:50:51.439 --> 1:50:53.640 think it's not a lot like enough news coverage, and 1:50:53.640 --> 1:50:56.839 I want to talk about Palestine, and this first episode 1:50:56.840 --> 1:51:01.120 I wanted to focus on how bias these coverages as 1:51:01.120 --> 1:51:05.760 far as depicting what's happening in Palestine in Israel. So 1:51:05.920 --> 1:51:09.400 that's what we're gonna talk about today. So are you ready? 1:51:09.520 --> 1:51:12.080 Are you all strapped in? I'm gonna start talking at 1:51:12.080 --> 1:51:16.559 you guys for a long time. Oh yeah, okay. At 1:51:16.560 --> 1:51:19.640 the height of the war between the Israeli military and 1:51:19.680 --> 1:51:23.080 Palestinian factions in the Gaza Strip, New York Times ran 1:51:23.120 --> 1:51:27.000 an article headlined Israel says that Hamas uses children's shields, 1:51:27.040 --> 1:51:30.640 reviving debate. It was a reference to the hundreds of 1:51:30.640 --> 1:51:33.479 Palestinian civilians who have been killed in the Israeli attacks 1:51:33.520 --> 1:51:35.600 by that point in the war, and there was no 1:51:35.680 --> 1:51:38.599 question about who had killed them, yet the language shifted 1:51:38.720 --> 1:51:41.520 the subject to a debate about who was really responsible. 1:51:42.040 --> 1:51:44.360 A few weeks earlier, after an Israeli air strike had 1:51:44.439 --> 1:51:48.679 killed several Palestinian soccer fans, the Times ran another absurd 1:51:48.680 --> 1:51:54.639 title titled Missile at beachside Gaza Cafe finds patrons poised 1:51:54.640 --> 1:52:01.160 for the World Cup, and they later found the poise 1:52:01.320 --> 1:52:04.960 just sitting there. It's amazing people talk about the exonerative 1:52:05.000 --> 1:52:08.120 case in like journalism, and it it appears to apply 1:52:08.200 --> 1:52:12.480 to the Israeli military and American cops. Yes, exactly, um 1:52:12.520 --> 1:52:15.080 And they did later ament this title because they had 1:52:15.640 --> 1:52:18.759 like a widespread like backlash and discussed that was expressed 1:52:18.760 --> 1:52:22.280 on social media. It only changed after that. But the 1:52:22.280 --> 1:52:25.599 whole point is that headlines matter, and it's the first 1:52:25.640 --> 1:52:29.360 and sometimes only exposure the general public has two world events, 1:52:29.880 --> 1:52:32.759 and especially like now, I believe that in our current time, 1:52:32.920 --> 1:52:34.720 the words at the top of that page or like 1:52:34.760 --> 1:52:37.000 sometimes the only words that show up in a hyperlink 1:52:37.360 --> 1:52:40.280 are more important the articles themselves, because sometimes it's all 1:52:40.320 --> 1:52:44.160 people see before they keep on scrolling UM, and in 1:52:44.200 --> 1:52:47.439 the case of Israel and Palestine, UH, inappropriate, misleading and 1:52:47.439 --> 1:52:49.720 biased headlines like those that appeared in The New York 1:52:49.760 --> 1:52:52.559 Times that I just mentioned have been all too common, 1:52:52.680 --> 1:52:58.439 accepted and treated as accurate reporting and quote unquote journalism. UH. 1:52:58.439 --> 1:53:01.439 In twenty and nineteen, there was a study titled fifty 1:53:01.520 --> 1:53:04.519 Years of Occupation that was published by four one six Labs, 1:53:04.520 --> 1:53:07.800 which is a research and data data analytics firm based 1:53:07.800 --> 1:53:11.360 in Canada. This firm analyzed nearly a hundred thousand news 1:53:11.360 --> 1:53:14.320 headlines about the conflict and the American press over the 1:53:14.360 --> 1:53:16.920 past five decades and found that the Israeli point of 1:53:16.960 --> 1:53:19.960 view surprise surprise, was featured much more prominently than the 1:53:19.960 --> 1:53:24.000 Palestinian one, and that references to Palestinians experiences of being 1:53:24.160 --> 1:53:28.720 refugees or living under occupation that word especially, that has 1:53:28.760 --> 1:53:32.760 steadily declined over time. So one of the studies authors, 1:53:32.760 --> 1:53:36.400 Ohi sahre He, told The Intercept that the findings demonstrate 1:53:36.400 --> 1:53:39.599 a persistent bias and coverage of the Israeli Palestinian issue, 1:53:39.960 --> 1:53:42.840 one where Israeli narratives are privileged and where despite the 1:53:42.840 --> 1:53:46.479 continued entrenchment of the occupation. The very topics remain to 1:53:46.520 --> 1:53:49.840 the Palestinians day today, reality have disappeared. It calls to 1:53:49.920 --> 1:53:52.800 attention the need to more critically evaluate the scope of 1:53:52.840 --> 1:53:56.320 coverage of the Israeli occupation and recognize that readers are getting, 1:53:56.360 --> 1:54:00.960 at best, a heavily filtered rendering of the issue. So 1:54:01.000 --> 1:54:03.960 this study analyzed fifty years of news headlines on the 1:54:04.040 --> 1:54:06.759 Israeli Palestine conflict. I put that in quotes, I feel 1:54:06.760 --> 1:54:15.840 like conflict is suggested equal. Uh, also like understating it. Yes, come, yeah, 1:54:16.000 --> 1:54:19.479 it's very Uh, it's understating what's that. Actually it's happening, 1:54:19.479 --> 1:54:23.360 and it just depicts a a somehow neutral playing field. 1:54:23.360 --> 1:54:26.240 But it's not. But the study analyzed fifty years of 1:54:26.240 --> 1:54:30.600 headlines from five major American publications, The Chicago Tribune, the 1:54:30.760 --> 1:54:33.040 l A Times, the New York Times, the Washington Post, 1:54:33.120 --> 1:54:35.960 and the Wall Street Journal. It employed this thing called 1:54:36.120 --> 1:54:40.040 natural language processing or n lp UM, and these techniques 1:54:40.040 --> 1:54:43.520 are used to analyze massive databases of headlines published over 1:54:43.520 --> 1:54:47.120 this period. NLP is a big data analysis approach used 1:54:47.160 --> 1:54:51.360 to identify statistical trends and patterns and large caches of text. 1:54:51.680 --> 1:54:55.120 In this case, researchers analyzed nearly a hundred thousand headlines 1:54:55.160 --> 1:54:59.000 and identified dozens of frequently recurring terms and word sequences 1:54:59.000 --> 1:55:03.200 and stories about Israel and Palestine. While studies of media 1:55:03.240 --> 1:55:06.800 coverage Israel and Palestine have been conducted before, this one 1:55:06.840 --> 1:55:09.760 by the four one six Labs analysis is the largest 1:55:09.800 --> 1:55:13.120 and most comprehensive look at headline coverage since the occupation 1:55:13.160 --> 1:55:18.520 began in and they're finding show a clear slant towards 1:55:18.560 --> 1:55:21.200 the Israeli perspective. Headlines like the one that I mentioned 1:55:21.240 --> 1:55:23.800 earlier from New York Times about civilian deaths in Gaza 1:55:24.360 --> 1:55:26.720 that used the term Israel says where two and a 1:55:26.760 --> 1:55:30.880 half times more likely to appear than headlines citing Palestinian equivalents. 1:55:31.280 --> 1:55:34.800 Headlines centering Israel were published four times more than those 1:55:34.800 --> 1:55:39.480 centering Palestinians, and words connoting violence such as terror appeared 1:55:39.520 --> 1:55:42.920 three times more than the word occupation. And since nineteen 1:55:43.000 --> 1:55:46.000 sixty seven, that's the year that the Israeli military took 1:55:46.000 --> 1:55:48.320 control of the West Bank, there has been an eighty 1:55:48.400 --> 1:55:51.240 five percent overall decrease in the mention of the term 1:55:51.280 --> 1:55:54.480 occupation and headlines about Israel, despite the fact that the 1:55:54.520 --> 1:55:57.960 Israeli militaries occupation of the Palestine territory has in fact 1:55:58.000 --> 1:56:01.040 intensified over this time, and the mention of the term 1:56:01.080 --> 1:56:05.920 Palestinian refugees, meanwhile has declined a massive And while this 1:56:06.000 --> 1:56:09.800 is maybe subtle from the outside, it's just a consistent 1:56:09.800 --> 1:56:13.280 disproportion of article headlines which by default gives a greater 1:56:13.440 --> 1:56:17.160 airtime to one side and avoid certain key issues, and 1:56:17.200 --> 1:56:20.560 this obviously can impact public perception. Yeah, I mean it's 1:56:20.720 --> 1:56:25.560 very noticeable ones you realize what the biases looking, especially 1:56:25.600 --> 1:56:28.000 on like social media and stuff. When you see just 1:56:28.000 --> 1:56:33.960 just the headline of an article, it's it's it's obvious. Yeah, 1:56:34.040 --> 1:56:37.200 it's it's just I don't know, Like what you have 1:56:37.480 --> 1:56:41.360 is a a conflict where one side is treated like 1:56:41.400 --> 1:56:45.720 a military force and the other side is treated like um, 1:56:45.880 --> 1:56:48.360 almost like weather like. That's that's almost how they write 1:56:48.360 --> 1:56:52.160 about when the Israeli military does something, it's like like 1:56:52.160 --> 1:56:55.000 like a thunderstorm came in right, like it's nobody's fault. 1:56:55.000 --> 1:56:57.640 This is just what happened, you know, like the palaceine 1:56:57.800 --> 1:56:59.400 that you know, the Hamas or whatever, that's like a 1:56:59.400 --> 1:57:01.840 military force, and so we talk about them the way 1:57:01.840 --> 1:57:04.240 that we talk about you know, a military force carrying 1:57:04.240 --> 1:57:06.720 out a strike or something. But but the Israeli military 1:57:06.800 --> 1:57:09.080 is like it's like with a weather right, like there's 1:57:09.080 --> 1:57:11.040 nothing to be there's no blame to go around. It 1:57:11.160 --> 1:57:14.800 just rained, you know. Yeah, and also like legitimizes Israel 1:57:14.840 --> 1:57:18.200 and like the legitimizes any kind of force that Palestine 1:57:18.360 --> 1:57:20.480 exerts because it's like shown in this like yeah, like 1:57:20.480 --> 1:57:24.200 a militant terrorist lens um when I was just acting 1:57:24.200 --> 1:57:28.040 in self defense. It's interesting because the US media actually 1:57:28.080 --> 1:57:31.800 does a better job of discussing the US military as 1:57:31.800 --> 1:57:34.960 if it actually can be like guilty of crimes, Like 1:57:34.960 --> 1:57:37.760 the New York Times in particular has done some like 1:57:38.280 --> 1:57:40.240 not that there's not still problems with it, but they 1:57:40.320 --> 1:57:42.800 it's like there's there's something unique about the way they 1:57:42.800 --> 1:57:45.320 write about Israel that I guess not quite unique, because 1:57:45.360 --> 1:57:47.680 they do often write about police in a similar way, 1:57:47.720 --> 1:57:51.440 but it's it's very peculiar that it's like, I don't know, Yeah, 1:57:51.440 --> 1:57:55.720 there's definitely a lot of crossover with US police and 1:57:55.880 --> 1:57:59.480 Israel and more ways than one. Yes, they trained them 1:57:59.520 --> 1:58:02.160 first of all, but also just like the way and 1:58:02.240 --> 1:58:04.160 I'll talk more about this later, but the fact that 1:58:04.160 --> 1:58:07.360 there are so many videos like blatantly showing like brutal 1:58:07.400 --> 1:58:09.920 acts against like humanity or like just brutalism in Britain 1:58:09.920 --> 1:58:12.520 in general, and like they still get away with it. 1:58:12.400 --> 1:58:15.320 It just shows that they know there's no punishment, they 1:58:15.400 --> 1:58:18.400 know that there's a certain amount of immunity because they 1:58:18.440 --> 1:58:21.560 have big brother America to always fucking get their back. 1:58:21.840 --> 1:58:26.840 But yeah, despite this ongoing American involvement, the total volume 1:58:26.880 --> 1:58:29.480 of US media coverage about the conflict has been in 1:58:29.520 --> 1:58:33.720 an overall decline since the Oslo Peace Accords. This was 1:58:33.760 --> 1:58:37.240 a negotiate agreement between the then Palestine leader Yasser Arafat 1:58:37.360 --> 1:58:41.000 and then Israeli Prime Minister yet Daike Raban, and it 1:58:41.080 --> 1:58:44.080 was intended to establish conditions for peace in the region. 1:58:44.720 --> 1:58:47.640 The decline and use coverage says little about the conditions 1:58:47.680 --> 1:58:52.360 on the ground because they didn't get better. But the 1:58:52.440 --> 1:58:55.080 hopes that were briefly raised by this Oslo piece accord 1:58:55.200 --> 1:59:00.760 effectively died. After an Israeli extremists assassin, they had Rabine 1:59:01.080 --> 1:59:05.040 and a new hardline Israeli leader, Benjamin and Yahoo. He 1:59:05.080 --> 1:59:09.960 took power and since then, the Israeli military their occupation 1:59:09.960 --> 1:59:13.000 of the West Bank, has only expanded, with new settlements 1:59:13.120 --> 1:59:16.400 eating away at the remaining areas of Palestinian control, even 1:59:16.480 --> 1:59:20.200 while global media attention has declined. And it's not just 1:59:20.280 --> 1:59:23.280 American media that shows a clear bias that favors Israel. 1:59:23.600 --> 1:59:26.360 British media coverage on the violence and Palestine is also 1:59:26.480 --> 1:59:30.520 very biased against Palestinians, which in turn skews public perception internationally. 1:59:31.960 --> 1:59:36.440 The Muslim Council of Britain's Center for Media Marketing, the CFMM, 1:59:36.440 --> 1:59:39.320 published a forty four page report that was titled media 1:59:39.360 --> 1:59:43.800 Reporting on Palestine one. And this report came after two 1:59:43.880 --> 1:59:46.840 weeks of violence in which Israeli police cracked down on 1:59:46.920 --> 1:59:50.440 protests against the eminent evictions of Palestinians and the occupied 1:59:50.480 --> 1:59:54.080 East Jerusalem neighborhood of Schecha. This report came after two 1:59:54.080 --> 1:59:56.680 weeks of violence in which Israeli police cracked down on 1:59:56.760 --> 1:59:59.960 protests against the eminent eviction of Palestinians and the Occupi 2:00:00.040 --> 2:00:03.440 hid East Jerusalem neighborhood of schechtered off and the subsequently 2:00:03.480 --> 2:00:07.400 attacked Palestine you worshippers and at the Luxe Mosque, and 2:00:07.440 --> 2:00:09.440 that wounded hundreds. I don't know if you guys remember, 2:00:09.560 --> 2:00:12.840 but in one last year there was a lot of 2:00:13.040 --> 2:00:16.640 violence occurring in Palestine. There was more coverage than usual, 2:00:16.760 --> 2:00:22.320 especially covering Schechtera, and obviously news headlines didn't always come 2:00:22.360 --> 2:00:26.640 out in an even handed way. But the brutal escalation 2:00:26.680 --> 2:00:29.560 of violence that followed as rockets were fired from Gaza 2:00:29.640 --> 2:00:33.080 and Israeli air strikes on the besieged enclave, it killed 2:00:33.120 --> 2:00:36.560 at least two hundred and forty eight Palestinians, including sixty 2:00:36.640 --> 2:00:40.600 six children. The occupied West Bank in East Jerusalem, twenty 2:00:40.680 --> 2:00:43.960 nine Palestinians were killed, and the rockets fired from Gaza 2:00:44.040 --> 2:00:48.280 killed twelve people in Israel. The CFMM stated that between 2:00:48.320 --> 2:00:53.800 May seven and um that's twenty when a ceasefire was announced, 2:00:54.160 --> 2:00:58.120 there were sixty two thousand, four hundred online print articles 2:00:58.440 --> 2:01:01.680 in nearly eight thousand television broadcast reporting on the events, 2:01:02.120 --> 2:01:05.240 and this report found that the narrative was extremely unbalanced 2:01:05.280 --> 2:01:09.480 due to quote skewed language, misleading headlines, and problematic framing. 2:01:10.240 --> 2:01:13.400 Razwanna Hamid, the director of CFMM and the co author 2:01:13.400 --> 2:01:15.680 of this report, told The Middle East I that the 2:01:15.720 --> 2:01:18.440 overwhelming amount of complaints that was received by the maunchoring 2:01:18.520 --> 2:01:23.040 organization about the biased media coverage in Britain um covering 2:01:23.040 --> 2:01:25.880 the events in Palestine. It aligned with the analysis and 2:01:25.920 --> 2:01:28.720 evidence that this is all skewed and it makes sense 2:01:28.760 --> 2:01:32.760 to get defensive when being rightfully called out, um just 2:01:32.840 --> 2:01:35.800 to kind of talk a little bit about sex really quick. 2:01:36.560 --> 2:01:39.600 This report cited several examples of media referring to the 2:01:39.680 --> 2:01:44.320 situation and sea which the situation was Palestinians being forcibly 2:01:44.320 --> 2:01:47.959 removed from their homes. Um. They called this an eviction 2:01:48.200 --> 2:01:51.600 or a real estate dispute, which implies a legal basis 2:01:51.720 --> 2:01:54.680 for these forced displacements, when in reality it was a viola, 2:01:54.800 --> 2:01:58.640 a violation of international law. So that's minimizing it to 2:01:58.680 --> 2:02:03.040 an extreme. UM. It also found that fifty of broadcast 2:02:03.080 --> 2:02:06.440 media clips between May seven and May t referred to 2:02:06.600 --> 2:02:10.520 quote unquote evictions or similar terms to describe illegal sentiment 2:02:10.560 --> 2:02:15.240 plans in Schechterra, And that also kind of just conflates 2:02:15.280 --> 2:02:17.200 that this is there's nothing you can do. This is 2:02:17.240 --> 2:02:19.840 like a legal dispute, not your problem, you know, like 2:02:19.920 --> 2:02:22.680 let them let the mess be over there, and we're 2:02:22.680 --> 2:02:24.640 just sitting here all pretty In America, they make it 2:02:24.680 --> 2:02:31.200 seem like it's like, oh, landlord, thing, this is like yeah, yeah, 2:02:31.440 --> 2:02:35.440 there's there's also this this way in which the actual 2:02:35.520 --> 2:02:37.240 thing that is happening is a bunch of people are 2:02:37.240 --> 2:02:40.400 showing up with guns and stealing people's houses, and this 2:02:40.440 --> 2:02:42.240 is getting treated as like, oh, this is like this 2:02:42.280 --> 2:02:43.560 is you know this, this is some kind of sort 2:02:43.600 --> 2:02:47.520 of like it's like a rental dispute. It's like it 2:02:47.560 --> 2:02:50.800 shurts into this this like completely bloodless legal thing, and 2:02:50.840 --> 2:02:52.640 then you know, you look at what's actually happening and 2:02:52.680 --> 2:02:55.040 it's like, yeah, they're stealing people's houses at gunpoints. They 2:02:55.040 --> 2:03:00.560 are like blowing up children with high explosives. It's just like, yeah, 2:03:00.920 --> 2:03:04.680 it's definitely not presented an accurate way. And especially if 2:03:04.680 --> 2:03:07.400 you don't know what's actually happening, like you do, and 2:03:07.440 --> 2:03:10.280 you just see these like random headlines and whatever, you 2:03:10.320 --> 2:03:12.960 don't think it's anything but what it is what they're 2:03:12.960 --> 2:03:15.720 telling you, Like, why would you deep dive any further 2:03:15.760 --> 2:03:19.040 if you're not affected by it? You know. Um. And 2:03:19.080 --> 2:03:20.360 one of the one of the things I noticed, like 2:03:20.400 --> 2:03:21.760 when I was reading some of the coverage that this 2:03:21.800 --> 2:03:25.400 is like the the reporters would like go try to 2:03:25.440 --> 2:03:28.160 find some kind of legal basis for this, and they'd 2:03:28.200 --> 2:03:31.920 start like they these like like five paragraph long things 2:03:31.960 --> 2:03:35.240 about like weird legal stuff from like nineteen three, like 2:03:35.280 --> 2:03:38.320 this has nothing to do with what's happening, Like this 2:03:38.360 --> 2:03:41.960 is you've taken you've taken the Yeah, yeah, it's it's 2:03:42.000 --> 2:03:44.960 like they've they've they've taken the exonerative case from from 2:03:44.960 --> 2:03:49.760 the title and then gone and just done exonerative journalism. Yeah. 2:03:50.160 --> 2:03:52.600 I do have to say that is we are. We 2:03:52.680 --> 2:03:55.920 keep using the term exonerative case. Somebody came up with that, 2:03:56.000 --> 2:03:58.400 and I keep forgetting who it was. But it's a 2:03:59.000 --> 2:04:02.000 one of the better, one of the better developments and 2:04:02.040 --> 2:04:07.440 discussing the way the media talks about Palestine. Yeah, yeah, 2:04:07.480 --> 2:04:10.880 it's uh yeah, I I just hate the word. I 2:04:10.920 --> 2:04:13.520 hate that even the word journalism has like it's not 2:04:13.920 --> 2:04:15.600 I don't even like calling this journalism, you know what 2:04:15.640 --> 2:04:17.520 I mean. I don't like that New York Times doesn't 2:04:17.600 --> 2:04:19.800 use anything anything, but it is what it is. That's 2:04:19.800 --> 2:04:22.920 what we got well and it's you know, as is 2:04:22.920 --> 2:04:25.520 always the frustration with the New York Times. They have 2:04:25.600 --> 2:04:28.680 also done some really good journalism on fucked up ship 2:04:28.720 --> 2:04:31.520 done by like on them. I think it was the 2:04:31.520 --> 2:04:33.400 New York Times. We did one of the articles on 2:04:33.640 --> 2:04:35.920 Sharene's murder, but that I know that was seen in 2:04:36.000 --> 2:04:39.200 I think this Time did a really good article. Ye 2:04:40.000 --> 2:04:43.160 a really good And it's like all of these, like 2:04:43.280 --> 2:04:46.000 these problems are systemic. All of these news agencies have 2:04:46.120 --> 2:04:48.360 people who do care and who have been over there 2:04:48.360 --> 2:04:50.720 and know how fucked up things are. So it's not 2:04:50.760 --> 2:04:54.680 like there aren't people within the system trying to wrench it. 2:04:54.680 --> 2:04:56.960 It's just like a sign of kind of how powerful, 2:04:57.800 --> 2:05:00.560 um the fucking how much a ner ship there is 2:05:00.600 --> 2:05:02.920 built up in Israel's favor here, I guess, but maybe 2:05:02.920 --> 2:05:06.360 that's maybe that's too exonerative for what's actually happening. I 2:05:06.400 --> 2:05:10.240 think it's also like I'll get into this a little 2:05:10.240 --> 2:05:12.760 bit later, but New York Times, for example, it's like 2:05:14.600 --> 2:05:17.200 there are some writers that are clearly had to clearly 2:05:17.200 --> 2:05:19.600 have a bias in favor of Israel, whether it's like 2:05:19.640 --> 2:05:23.000 they've described themselves as being like right wing or whatever. Obviously, 2:05:23.360 --> 2:05:25.960 so it's like it's there's no, there's not even an 2:05:26.000 --> 2:05:29.560 option for balanced journalism if you're giving someone that kind 2:05:29.600 --> 2:05:33.160 of voice, and there I mean even if you are, uh, 2:05:33.240 --> 2:05:35.200 if you have an opinion, you would think as a journalist, 2:05:35.240 --> 2:05:38.040 you would understand what journalism means when it comes to 2:05:38.080 --> 2:05:41.120 like reporting accurate and fair information. But I think bias 2:05:41.160 --> 2:05:46.320 always wins. Yeah, well because not like if you're even 2:05:46.360 --> 2:05:48.720 if you're like because I think, honestly, if you know 2:05:48.760 --> 2:05:52.200 what's going on there, if you've actually spent time in 2:05:52.240 --> 2:05:54.120 the area and not just like hung out with the 2:05:54.200 --> 2:05:59.400 Israeli military, Uh, the honest take is a tremendous amount 2:05:59.400 --> 2:06:03.760 of sympathy for the Palestinian cause and Palestinian people. Um. 2:06:03.800 --> 2:06:05.880 But even so, if you're an honest journalist, you're going 2:06:05.920 --> 2:06:08.400 to try to be carefully like you do have to 2:06:08.400 --> 2:06:14.400 report on stuff like you know, missile strikes. But because 2:06:14.760 --> 2:06:17.280 you've got that side, and then you've got the people 2:06:17.280 --> 2:06:20.600 who are overwhelmingly in Israel's corner and refused to report 2:06:20.600 --> 2:06:23.560 on the other side of things, the coverage de facto 2:06:23.680 --> 2:06:26.960 is always going to tilt towards Israel because the side 2:06:27.000 --> 2:06:31.120 that would be kind of reflexively and purely on kind 2:06:31.160 --> 2:06:34.720 of the Palestinian side just has no visibility here. You know. Um, 2:06:35.440 --> 2:06:37.280 I I don't know like what you do with that, 2:06:37.320 --> 2:06:39.640 because this is again a broader as with all these things, 2:06:39.720 --> 2:06:44.400 is your broader problems in media. Um. But yeah, you 2:06:44.440 --> 2:06:47.840 know what else is a broader problem in media. It 2:06:48.040 --> 2:06:50.320 is the fact. It is the fact that me that 2:06:50.320 --> 2:06:54.400 that news and journalism is heavily advertising supported, which leads 2:06:54.440 --> 2:06:58.400 to deep amounts of bias UH in journalism and and 2:06:58.480 --> 2:07:02.360 also problematic graphic seeking behaviors in a wide variety of 2:07:02.400 --> 2:07:06.000 things that are careening us all towards an unsurvivable outcome. 2:07:06.800 --> 2:07:10.840 And we're back. Hopefully that was um and if not, 2:07:11.000 --> 2:07:13.400 well it is what you get. But I want to 2:07:13.400 --> 2:07:17.480 bring up something about ahead. No, I just was apologizing 2:07:17.520 --> 2:07:21.160 for calling the audience motherfucker's never alze for that. Never 2:07:21.200 --> 2:07:24.920 apologize for go to hell, you sons of bitches. Thank 2:07:24.960 --> 2:07:29.400 you for listening. Yeah, thank you so much. Also be 2:07:29.480 --> 2:07:31.400 nice to me. But I want to bring up something 2:07:31.640 --> 2:07:33.560 that I hear all the time as far as like 2:07:33.560 --> 2:07:37.880 people that have been to Israel UM on birthright. I 2:07:37.880 --> 2:07:40.360 want to say that birthright does not count unless you 2:07:40.400 --> 2:07:43.200 have like critical thinking and you understand how biased that 2:07:43.240 --> 2:07:46.480 trip even is and the fact that like you don't 2:07:46.520 --> 2:07:51.280 even have to be from that land to go back there. Meanwhile, 2:07:51.320 --> 2:07:53.800 Palestinians are not allowed to even step foot in that land. 2:07:53.920 --> 2:07:56.360 So that's another episode entirely. I won't get into it, 2:07:56.560 --> 2:08:00.800 but it does really make me mad. And I'll stop 2:08:00.840 --> 2:08:06.040 there before I rage talk any further. But um, let's 2:08:06.040 --> 2:08:12.200 go back to Israeli violence and police. So with regards 2:08:12.240 --> 2:08:15.120 to the violence at the ax A Mosque, it resulted 2:08:15.120 --> 2:08:18.400 in hundreds of Palestinians being wounded. And the report, uh, 2:08:18.560 --> 2:08:22.360 the British report that we're talking about, documented widespread instances 2:08:22.480 --> 2:08:27.960 of media outlets using terms like clashes, conflict, scuffles and skirmishes, 2:08:28.920 --> 2:08:31.600 which kind of applies equal blame, which is obviously not 2:08:31.640 --> 2:08:36.400 true because one side is armed in swat gear um. 2:08:36.440 --> 2:08:38.920 And it also cited several news reports speaking of an 2:08:38.920 --> 2:08:43.000 into fada, which it said played into fearmongering and framing 2:08:43.000 --> 2:08:46.680 Palestinians as violent aggressors. I want to point out that 2:08:46.800 --> 2:08:50.440 the word into fathera is just an Arabic word that 2:08:50.480 --> 2:08:54.680 means rebellion or uprising and or a resistance, a resistance movement. 2:08:54.720 --> 2:08:58.000 It's a key concept in contemporary Arabic usage. It refers 2:08:58.040 --> 2:09:00.960 to a legitimate uprising against a pre usion. And I 2:09:01.000 --> 2:09:04.120 feel like, like so many Arabic words, it's been skewed 2:09:04.160 --> 2:09:07.800 into something to fear, like even the words allaho akbud, 2:09:07.840 --> 2:09:11.200 which literally just means like thank you God or like 2:09:11.480 --> 2:09:13.240 dear God. You know what I mean, Like, I think 2:09:13.680 --> 2:09:15.760 the fact that those words are invoked in fear like 2:09:15.880 --> 2:09:19.920 it's really breaks my heart to hear like my native 2:09:20.000 --> 2:09:24.120 language being used to incite fear. Like trust me, I've 2:09:24.120 --> 2:09:26.240 been on airports in my parents who have gotten really 2:09:26.280 --> 2:09:30.720 strange looks just for speaking in Arabic. So again another episode. 2:09:30.720 --> 2:09:32.760 I keep getting distracted. There are so many things that 2:09:32.760 --> 2:09:35.880 make me bad. But um, I just wanted to bring 2:09:35.960 --> 2:09:38.520 up that if you're free afraid of the word and defaulta, 2:09:38.640 --> 2:09:43.480 don't be because that's also public media skewing your brain. 2:09:43.880 --> 2:09:49.839 Don't believe it. And um I mean the director of 2:09:49.880 --> 2:09:52.320 this organization and the co author of this report. She 2:09:52.440 --> 2:09:55.520 said that as far as language is concerned, terms like 2:09:55.600 --> 2:09:59.520 evictions max they mask the illegal force removals and expulsion 2:09:59.520 --> 2:10:03.680 of Palace Indians from their homes, references to conflict and clashes. 2:10:03.720 --> 2:10:06.320 They try to equalize what's what's in effect a battle 2:10:06.360 --> 2:10:10.480 between David and Goliath. And it also, as I said earlier, 2:10:10.560 --> 2:10:16.760 masking ethnic cleansing as rental disagreements is absurd, but it's uh. 2:10:16.800 --> 2:10:19.840 It also like implies that there's like a legal basis 2:10:19.880 --> 2:10:22.680 for everything. Um, but it's all surprising at this point, 2:10:23.080 --> 2:10:26.200 Like I feel like clashes also, isn't. It's just anytime 2:10:26.280 --> 2:10:28.960 you see a writer using the word clashes, it like 2:10:29.080 --> 2:10:32.240 clashes is just like is it's it's just a coward tense. 2:10:33.240 --> 2:10:37.880 It's clashes. Yeah, Clashes is what you say when you 2:10:37.920 --> 2:10:41.640 are incredibly desperate not to at any point talk about 2:10:41.920 --> 2:10:45.280 who started the violence as happening and why, because clashes, 2:10:45.320 --> 2:10:47.400 let's just righte it off. Okay, there's two people, Funny, 2:10:47.400 --> 2:10:49.960 I mean a clashes fight, like if you're just if 2:10:50.000 --> 2:10:54.720 you're discussing like Ukrainian and Russian troops like fighting in 2:10:54.920 --> 2:10:57.440 a village, Like, yeah, you can call that a clash. 2:10:57.520 --> 2:11:01.040 Both sides showed up with tanks and and weaponry to 2:11:01.120 --> 2:11:03.800 like fight a war. And if you're talking about the 2:11:03.800 --> 2:11:06.080 band the clash, you can talk about the clash. But 2:11:06.120 --> 2:11:09.440 otherwise maybe don't use the term clash. Yeah, if you're 2:11:09.440 --> 2:11:11.600 talking unless you're talking about someone who's not dressed well 2:11:11.840 --> 2:11:13.640 or who's dressed really well, one of the two, I 2:11:13.680 --> 2:11:17.440 forget what. No, but you're right, I think, especially if 2:11:17.440 --> 2:11:21.360 you're talking about literal an army coming to an unarmed 2:11:21.480 --> 2:11:24.480 family's home and kicking them out. That's not a fucking 2:11:24.520 --> 2:11:29.760 clash that is, yeah, yeah, Or like you're tear gassing 2:11:29.840 --> 2:11:33.000 someone in a mosque and it's like, this is not 2:11:33.000 --> 2:11:36.720 not a clash, No, this is a chemical weapons attack. 2:11:36.800 --> 2:11:39.920 Like what, Yeah, it's a chemical weapons attack on a 2:11:40.000 --> 2:11:43.080 house of warship, which is what what we in the 2:11:43.120 --> 2:11:47.040 biz call not cool. What's really ironic, too, is that 2:11:47.040 --> 2:11:51.400 that mosque and that region, like that point in particular, 2:11:51.480 --> 2:11:55.160 is sacred to Muslims, Jewish people, and Christians alike. So 2:11:55.200 --> 2:11:57.240 the fact that they're desecrating it at all in any 2:11:57.240 --> 2:12:01.680 way is really ironic to me because it's they don't 2:12:01.720 --> 2:12:06.760 care about anything. Um. But another area of concerns surrounding 2:12:06.920 --> 2:12:09.919 this reporting on Jerusalem was an over emphasis on religion. 2:12:10.240 --> 2:12:12.560 That's a good segue. Look at that, an accidental segue. 2:12:12.600 --> 2:12:16.200 I'll take it. It's pronounced s okay. The report found 2:12:16.200 --> 2:12:19.480 that nearly two thirds of nine nearly two thirds of 2:12:19.640 --> 2:12:24.800 ninety clips in this timeframe referred to Palestinians religion, in 2:12:24.840 --> 2:12:27.800 some cases explicitly just saying that they're Muslim. One I 2:12:27.880 --> 2:12:31.520 TV report from a tent reference sirens, which prompted quote 2:12:31.600 --> 2:12:34.440 Jewish worshippers at the Western Wall to flee and run 2:12:34.480 --> 2:12:38.280 for cover, and Palestinians using the quote third holies Sitan 2:12:38.400 --> 2:12:41.600 Islam as a base to throw stones at Israeli police. 2:12:42.280 --> 2:12:46.200 And while religious significance may be important to know at times, 2:12:46.920 --> 2:12:50.480 journalists I believe should avoid implying this religious motivation unless 2:12:50.480 --> 2:12:53.960 it's necessary, because it portrays the history of Israel versus 2:12:53.960 --> 2:12:58.040 Palestine as anything other than settler colonialism. If it's a 2:12:58.040 --> 2:13:00.080 religious dispute, then it's just like a far away, a 2:13:01.000 --> 2:13:04.560 decades centuries long fight that there's nothing we can do about. 2:13:04.640 --> 2:13:07.280 Our hands are in the air. But really it's really simple, 2:13:07.400 --> 2:13:12.080 it's just settler colonialism. And skewing as anything kind of 2:13:12.160 --> 2:13:16.640 any kind of religious conflict is very purposeful to get 2:13:16.640 --> 2:13:19.160 people not to care and get people not to think 2:13:19.160 --> 2:13:23.800 that there's a solution. And as I said, not only 2:13:23.840 --> 2:13:26.480 that's this false religious narrative, it ignores the existence of 2:13:26.560 --> 2:13:30.520 persecution also of Palestinian Christians, because not not all Palestinians 2:13:30.520 --> 2:13:34.600 are Muslim, There are Palestinian Christians UM and Palestinian Jews, 2:13:35.240 --> 2:13:39.520 but it ignores their existence and of their in their 2:13:39.520 --> 2:13:41.960 persecution by Israel. And it further is a narrative that 2:13:42.000 --> 2:13:45.200 there is a centuries long religious war that is too complex. 2:13:45.360 --> 2:13:48.280 That word is always used in this conflict. Conflict Again, 2:13:48.320 --> 2:13:50.600 I hate that word, but it's always used to describe 2:13:50.600 --> 2:13:53.160 what's happening is too complex to talk about or understand, 2:13:53.480 --> 2:13:56.280 when instead it's opposite. It's the opposite. It's simple. It's 2:13:56.320 --> 2:13:59.440 an oppressor, and there's an oppressed. Israel is an apartheid 2:13:59.480 --> 2:14:01.880 state that had has been ethnic cleansing Palestinians and stealing 2:14:01.920 --> 2:14:06.080 their land ever since it was established. Uh. And i'd 2:14:06.080 --> 2:14:09.200 even say that war and conflict, it's not a fair fight. 2:14:09.240 --> 2:14:12.360 It's not an even word. And we've been witnessing a 2:14:12.400 --> 2:14:15.040 genocide that has been occurring in Israel since it was established. 2:14:15.120 --> 2:14:18.120 And it's like there's a clearer pressor and a clearer pressed. 2:14:18.960 --> 2:14:23.400 Any kind of wording that implies otherwise is a lie. 2:14:24.000 --> 2:14:27.560 Let's go on to Gaza for a moment, and the 2:14:27.560 --> 2:14:30.480 headlines that describe what's happening in Gaza. There are multiple 2:14:30.480 --> 2:14:34.160 examples of problematic language and framing regarding violence in Gaza. 2:14:34.520 --> 2:14:37.640 An article in the Sun on May twelve one was 2:14:37.680 --> 2:14:41.960 titled fifteen kids mass occurred in Israel Hamas conflict as 2:14:41.960 --> 2:14:45.400 an and Yahoo warns we will inflict blows you couldn't 2:14:45.480 --> 2:14:48.800 dream of. This headline failed to mention that fourteen and 2:14:48.880 --> 2:14:52.360 the fifteen children were that were killed or Palestinians, because 2:14:52.520 --> 2:14:55.720 reading it, it implies that those children, all Israeli and 2:14:56.000 --> 2:15:00.640 Palestinians are monsters. That's not the case. Um. And then 2:15:00.680 --> 2:15:04.720 on the seventeenth of May, i Knews reported that forty 2:15:04.760 --> 2:15:09.120 two Palestinians died over the weekend. They died over the 2:15:09.120 --> 2:15:16.880 weeks from heart failure, Like fuck you, um it failed 2:15:16.880 --> 2:15:19.360 to mention is that all of those deaths were Palestinians 2:15:19.360 --> 2:15:22.560 in Gaza that were killed. Because died does not give 2:15:22.600 --> 2:15:26.200 the same impression as murder. If you swap out the 2:15:26.240 --> 2:15:28.560 truthful word at any of these headlines, it makes a 2:15:28.640 --> 2:15:31.320 huge difference for people that only see these headlines, like 2:15:31.800 --> 2:15:34.880 forty two Palestinians died is not the same as forty 2:15:34.880 --> 2:15:38.800 two Palestinians were murdered. There's a huge into like connotation 2:15:38.840 --> 2:15:41.640 difference for the people that just read something and move on, 2:15:42.600 --> 2:15:46.160 and popular headlines tell us time and time again, just 2:15:46.200 --> 2:15:50.320 like this, that Palestinians have died, while stating that Israeli's 2:15:50.320 --> 2:15:52.920 on the other hand were killed. Israelis don't die, they're 2:15:52.920 --> 2:15:55.880 always killed. Palestinians they always died, though they're never killed. 2:15:56.000 --> 2:16:00.920 There's a huge misproportion of those two words being used 2:16:00.960 --> 2:16:04.600 for those sides. Christopher brought up earlier about like passive 2:16:04.800 --> 2:16:09.320 voice in journalism and saying Palestinians died. It's another example 2:16:09.360 --> 2:16:12.640 of that. And biased media outlets use this passive voice 2:16:12.680 --> 2:16:15.320 and they avoid specifying in its headlines who was killed 2:16:15.360 --> 2:16:18.760 and who was responsible if it portrays Israel as the aggressor. 2:16:19.120 --> 2:16:21.960 The use of passive voice that d emphasizes or hides 2:16:22.160 --> 2:16:26.520 those perpetrating such negative action on Palestinians, and this has 2:16:26.560 --> 2:16:31.320 the rhetorical effect of minimizing the responsibility of Israeli aggressors 2:16:31.320 --> 2:16:35.760 and and causing Palestinians suffering. A lot of headlines also 2:16:35.800 --> 2:16:39.720 refer to the Israeli military while referring to Palestinian groups 2:16:39.760 --> 2:16:44.240 as militants or Slamists, which implies differences in legitimacy. Like 2:16:44.320 --> 2:16:47.920 we mentioned earlier, there are also headlines describing Israeli air 2:16:47.920 --> 2:16:51.720 strikes of having come quote after Hamas rocket attacks, but 2:16:51.760 --> 2:16:54.560 this ignores that the violence from Israeli settlers and police 2:16:54.560 --> 2:16:57.920 in Jerusalem preceded those rocket attacks. It's like starting in 2:16:57.959 --> 2:17:00.360 the middle of a fight where you punched themselves to fence, 2:17:00.720 --> 2:17:03.360 and that's where the argo starts. Like you punch someone, 2:17:03.879 --> 2:17:06.240 not the person that punched you first. Maybe that's a 2:17:06.240 --> 2:17:09.360 bad example, but it's just think of it that way. 2:17:09.360 --> 2:17:11.640 You're starting in the middle of a timeline versus the beginning. 2:17:12.720 --> 2:17:17.280 And Hamide told the Middle East Ie that the media 2:17:17.360 --> 2:17:20.840 narrative a racist history, context and legitimacy of the Palestinian 2:17:20.879 --> 2:17:24.560 cause by presenting Palestinians as the aggressors and Israel as 2:17:24.600 --> 2:17:27.400 acting in self defense when it is quite the opposite. 2:17:28.360 --> 2:17:32.240 And I can't talk about Palestine or Israel without mentioning 2:17:32.360 --> 2:17:35.080 the anti semitism claims that a lot of people bring 2:17:35.160 --> 2:17:39.520 up every time you mentioned Palestine. Other instances of skewed 2:17:39.600 --> 2:17:43.680 media coverage, they included articles that conflated pro Palestinian activism 2:17:43.720 --> 2:17:46.760 with anti Semitism. There was an article in the Telegraph 2:17:46.800 --> 2:17:49.199 that said that demonstrators in London that were in support 2:17:49.240 --> 2:17:52.040 of ha Mass were therefore anti Semitic because the group 2:17:52.160 --> 2:17:56.160 was committed to the ilimination of Jews, which is not correct. 2:17:57.360 --> 2:18:00.160 I don't agree obviously with everything that Hamas does is 2:18:00.240 --> 2:18:01.880 but you have to keep in mind that no one 2:18:01.959 --> 2:18:07.119 else is fighting for Palestinians, and desperate times desperate measures, 2:18:07.320 --> 2:18:11.160 and there's no there's never a reason to excuse any 2:18:11.240 --> 2:18:14.200 kind of murder if any anyone that's unarmed or innocent, 2:18:15.000 --> 2:18:19.120 but against David and Goliath, which what choices Palestine have 2:18:19.280 --> 2:18:21.640 if no one in the international community is coming to 2:18:21.680 --> 2:18:26.840 the rescue and h and every everyone who anyone who 2:18:26.959 --> 2:18:30.959 supports any military action anywhere supports the kind of collateral 2:18:31.040 --> 2:18:34.359 damage that Hamas does. They just supported under different circumstances 2:18:34.360 --> 2:18:37.240 and with different weapons systems. Doesn't make it okay to 2:18:37.320 --> 2:18:40.880 fire rockets blindly into a city, but the United States 2:18:40.959 --> 2:18:44.680 Air Force fires way more rockets just as blindly into 2:18:44.760 --> 2:18:48.240 way more cities. Um, It's like, yeah, war is horrible, 2:18:48.280 --> 2:18:51.240 it's fucked up in bad. It doesn't say anything about 2:18:51.280 --> 2:18:53.920 the broader cause, Like sure, certainly you can have you know, 2:18:53.959 --> 2:18:56.680 whatever the moral there's moral condemnation to be had for 2:18:56.800 --> 2:19:00.000 military leaders with Hamas as there is for the military 2:19:00.240 --> 2:19:03.080 leaders with any militant force, and for you know, some 2:19:03.160 --> 2:19:05.320 of the soldiers doing some of those things. But at 2:19:05.320 --> 2:19:07.520 the end of the day, it says nothing about the 2:19:07.520 --> 2:19:11.080 overall righteousness of the cause, because there's not a discrepancy 2:19:11.120 --> 2:19:15.760 in the willingness to accept civilian casualties between Hamas and Israel. Um, 2:19:15.840 --> 2:19:19.520 they're both very willing to accept civilian casualties in pursuit 2:19:19.560 --> 2:19:22.080 of their goals. So you have to set that aside 2:19:22.120 --> 2:19:24.800 when you're trying to determine what is what is happening 2:19:24.800 --> 2:19:27.840 here and where is righteousness? And I think righteousness overall 2:19:27.920 --> 2:19:31.080 lies on the side being ethnically cleansed. M hmm, yeah, 2:19:31.800 --> 2:19:34.280 very well said. I think it's a good place to 2:19:34.360 --> 2:19:38.439 take an ad break. And you know who also condones 2:19:38.959 --> 2:19:46.280 heavy civilian casualties in pursuit of their goals, the good people. 2:19:47.200 --> 2:19:50.600 But that works too. That does also work. Honestly, has 2:19:50.600 --> 2:19:54.480 gotten a lot more people killed than Hamas right to 2:19:54.560 --> 2:19:57.240 be to be fair, they may have gotten more people 2:19:57.320 --> 2:20:01.120 killed than the Israeli military has cost a lot of 2:20:01.120 --> 2:20:07.880 blood shed over the years. Nikes. Anyway, here's our sponsors it. Okay, 2:20:07.920 --> 2:20:12.640 we're back, Um before the break, we're talking about pro 2:20:12.720 --> 2:20:15.680 Palestinian activism being complated with anti Semitism, and I want 2:20:15.680 --> 2:20:19.480 to bring up this um quote from a Daily Mail 2:20:19.560 --> 2:20:24.400 column commentator Richard little John stated that anti Semitism like 2:20:24.560 --> 2:20:32.320 COVID comes in waves. This is the Palestinian variant. Excuse me, Wow, 2:20:33.240 --> 2:20:35.040 Sometimes I just have to like read that and really 2:20:35.120 --> 2:20:39.000 just remember what planet I'm on. But this research also 2:20:39.040 --> 2:20:43.680 mentions examples of insufficient challenge to views and broadcast interviews. 2:20:44.000 --> 2:20:47.600 This included a Sky News interview with to Zippi Hotel 2:20:47.680 --> 2:20:51.760 Levy Hotel Velli, the Israeli Ambassador to the UK, failing 2:20:51.840 --> 2:20:55.320 to sufficiently answer or be challenged on questions about ethnic 2:20:55.320 --> 2:20:59.600 cleansing and check. She has previously described herself as a 2:20:59.600 --> 2:21:04.000 religious right winger and has referred to the displacement of 2:21:04.440 --> 2:21:09.680 seven and fifty tho Palestinians No listen. She describes it 2:21:09.760 --> 2:21:15.640 as a quote strong and popular Arab Live. This is 2:21:15.680 --> 2:21:20.600 the Israeli Ambassador to the UK. And it's like there's 2:21:20.640 --> 2:21:23.280 a lot that's frustrating here. One is that, like you 2:21:23.320 --> 2:21:25.520 do have to take some care when you particularly when 2:21:25.520 --> 2:21:29.720 you talk about the media complicity and like pushing the 2:21:29.760 --> 2:21:32.680 Israeli narrative and all of the different things like a 2:21:32.760 --> 2:21:35.480 pack that like fund us politicians and whatnot, because like 2:21:35.920 --> 2:21:38.240 it is, you do have to be careful to not 2:21:38.440 --> 2:21:41.920 like vierendos conspiracy territory, and I have to be careful 2:21:41.920 --> 2:21:44.200 with the sources that you pick, because since a lot 2:21:44.240 --> 2:21:46.720 of mainstream news doesn't cover it, you find some of 2:21:46.760 --> 2:21:49.959 this written about by people who are definitely not the 2:21:50.000 --> 2:21:52.360 folks you want to have on your side. But that 2:21:52.440 --> 2:21:56.320 doesn't make talking about this anti semitic. It just means 2:21:56.360 --> 2:21:59.040 that the entire discourse is poisoned because of the way 2:21:59.080 --> 2:22:04.039 the Internet functions. Yeah and yeah, no, good point. I'm 2:22:04.080 --> 2:22:06.440 not going to expand because I will restated in a 2:22:06.480 --> 2:22:11.480 worse way. But um, that quote just really baffles my mind, 2:22:11.560 --> 2:22:13.440 especially because this person has a lot of power as 2:22:13.440 --> 2:22:16.160 an ambassador, but she has also been accused of holding 2:22:16.240 --> 2:22:19.440 racist and Islamophobic views and has expressed support for the 2:22:19.480 --> 2:22:24.160 annexation of the entire illegally occupied West Bank. Yeah. Really 2:22:24.200 --> 2:22:27.560 great stuff there something No, it seems like nobody's calling 2:22:27.560 --> 2:22:31.560 that racist though you don't, like, like like you think about 2:22:31.560 --> 2:22:34.240 the reaction to like to like, hey, yeah, we're like 2:22:34.280 --> 2:22:36.480 we want to literally take over all of this landing, 2:22:36.520 --> 2:22:38.120 Like you can compare that to the reaction to like 2:22:38.160 --> 2:22:40.760 someone saying from the river to the sea, which like 2:22:40.920 --> 2:22:43.720 everyone immediately loses their minds and it's just like ya, 2:22:43.800 --> 2:22:49.199 this is the ambassador saying this stuff and nothing happens. Yeah, 2:22:49.600 --> 2:22:52.800 it's really unsettling. And having someone like that in power, 2:22:52.879 --> 2:22:57.119 as I will mention later with than Yahoo. Uh, someone 2:22:57.160 --> 2:23:02.280 that is so right wing or uh can extremist. It's 2:23:02.320 --> 2:23:08.400 just like um, it encourages people like that, that that 2:23:08.800 --> 2:23:11.440 in the in the population, encourages that kind of leases 2:23:11.520 --> 2:23:13.160 them to like expand just like Donald Trump did, Just 2:23:13.160 --> 2:23:16.240 like Donald Trump did with his fan base or fan base, 2:23:16.760 --> 2:23:21.720 his base. But here. Yeah. The British report that I'm 2:23:21.720 --> 2:23:25.680 mentioning are also reported that Palestinians were regularly asked to 2:23:25.760 --> 2:23:29.440 answer for the actions of Hamas and recommended that spokespeople 2:23:29.480 --> 2:23:31.600 for the group should instead be given a platform to 2:23:31.640 --> 2:23:34.960 respond to allegations. Meanwhile, you don't see like random Israeli's 2:23:35.000 --> 2:23:38.880 being asked to answer for murders committed by the ideas. 2:23:38.959 --> 2:23:42.560 It's always very one sided. There was also another study 2:23:42.600 --> 2:23:45.760 that was conducted by M I T titled The New 2:23:45.800 --> 2:23:49.119 York Times Distores the Palestinian Struggle. It was written by 2:23:49.120 --> 2:23:52.320 Holly M. Jackson and it was tracking changes in news 2:23:52.400 --> 2:23:56.680 coverage bias UH, showing how anti Palestinian bias has persisted 2:23:56.680 --> 2:23:59.720 in The Times coverage by analyzing its articles during the 2:23:59.760 --> 2:24:03.280 Fur and Second Palestinian into Father's, both periods in which 2:24:03.320 --> 2:24:08.640 Israeli violence far exceeded that committed by Palestinians. Deploying machine 2:24:08.720 --> 2:24:12.279 learning methods to analyze over thirty three thousand articles, Jackson 2:24:12.280 --> 2:24:14.960 focused on bias and the language of The Times reporting 2:24:15.000 --> 2:24:18.360 through two linguistic features. First was to identify with their 2:24:18.400 --> 2:24:22.120 actions by Israeli and Palestinian groups were being described in 2:24:22.160 --> 2:24:24.560 the active and passive voice, and the second was to 2:24:24.560 --> 2:24:28.440 classify the objectivity and tone of the language used. And 2:24:28.520 --> 2:24:32.400 this content analysis conducted across sixteen thousand articles during the 2:24:32.400 --> 2:24:36.360 first and fifather, which was from nine to sepend nine, 2:24:36.480 --> 2:24:42.039 it revealed some revealing results. Nearly of these articles reference 2:24:42.200 --> 2:24:46.320 Israeli's while only forty percent reference Palestinians, and about twelve 2:24:46.320 --> 2:24:50.080 percent all references to Palestinians used violent language, as opposed 2:24:50.080 --> 2:24:54.160 to only five point nine percent for Israeli's Palestinians. Meanwhile, 2:24:54.240 --> 2:24:57.440 We're referred to in the passive voice nearly sixteen percent 2:24:57.480 --> 2:25:00.320 of the time, while the passive voice was used only 2:25:00.400 --> 2:25:03.400 about six percent of the time to describe Asraeli's and 2:25:03.440 --> 2:25:05.920 like I know this is just like all numbers and percentages, 2:25:06.520 --> 2:25:09.040 because we obviously know how bias it is. But I 2:25:09.080 --> 2:25:13.080 think it's helpful to like scientifically mathematically see that this 2:25:13.160 --> 2:25:15.800 is like actually accurate and there's not just like us 2:25:15.879 --> 2:25:18.520 talking about it. This is actually true. So I do 2:25:18.600 --> 2:25:22.080 believe these studies are very important in showing people that 2:25:22.160 --> 2:25:26.880 might be uh, I don't know, um, skeptical, that this 2:25:26.959 --> 2:25:30.800 is actually the reality. And then Jackson also highlighted that 2:25:30.879 --> 2:25:34.680 during this period, the Times stable of reporters were filled 2:25:35.120 --> 2:25:38.840 with those, know, those with those with no prejudices, like 2:25:38.920 --> 2:25:43.560 Thomas L. Freedman and Joel who framed their articles by 2:25:43.560 --> 2:25:49.320 elevating Israeli perspectives alongside blatant anti Palestinian sentiment. So, like 2:25:49.400 --> 2:25:54.920 we said, they're giving platforms of people with really clear biases. Um. Yeah. Oh. 2:25:55.000 --> 2:26:00.520 Also Tom Tomas Friedman uh famously super fucking ish on 2:26:00.560 --> 2:26:05.160 the Iraq War. Uh and also very famously said when 2:26:05.200 --> 2:26:07.640 he was trying to rally support for the Iraq War 2:26:07.959 --> 2:26:10.560 that the Iraq War was about telling Muslims to quote 2:26:10.560 --> 2:26:17.040 suck on this good guy Tom Friedman, real cool, dude, unbiased. 2:26:18.000 --> 2:26:21.320 They gave this man a pulitzer. I think they gave 2:26:21.400 --> 2:26:25.320 him multiple I I would give him a pulitzer very 2:26:25.480 --> 2:26:32.080 quickly and thrown overhand. Yeah. Uh, that makes me sick. 2:26:32.200 --> 2:26:33.879 Thank you for sharing that. I'm glad I know that. 2:26:33.920 --> 2:26:39.199 Now it's cool. He doesn't talk about that anymore. Shut 2:26:39.320 --> 2:26:42.840 the absolute funk up. I mean, realizing that was the 2:26:42.879 --> 2:26:46.200 Iraq War and now he's he's still obviously given a 2:26:46.200 --> 2:26:49.960 platform talking about Palestine. There's no there's no repercussion or 2:26:50.000 --> 2:26:52.680 even like red flags about this kind of language because 2:26:52.680 --> 2:26:57.640 it's accepted and it's very really normalized. Um it sucks, Yes, 2:26:58.640 --> 2:27:02.600 Um headlines served aid for bias, drudge up editorials like 2:27:03.160 --> 2:27:06.840 quote Israel and Arab neighbors must bend a little no 2:27:06.920 --> 2:27:11.880 more Palestine and quote and Israel has controlled little of Palestine. 2:27:12.360 --> 2:27:15.280 So they're really clearly trying Jesus to frame this an 2:27:15.320 --> 2:27:20.640 incorrect way as if is if Israel's Arab neighbors haven't 2:27:20.720 --> 2:27:23.600 basically just abandoned Palestine by this point, right, like it 2:27:23.640 --> 2:27:26.840 has been pretty much like even the like fucking idiot 2:27:26.840 --> 2:27:29.240 tankies talk about how like Assad supports them, but he 2:27:29.280 --> 2:27:31.959 put them into fucking camps. He's like arrested and tortured 2:27:32.000 --> 2:27:35.120 and killed Palestinian activist it like it like you know. 2:27:35.320 --> 2:27:38.039 One of the thing none of these people ever want 2:27:38.080 --> 2:27:41.360 you to do is google Google what have al Asad 2:27:41.480 --> 2:27:44.760 was sucking doing? And uh, why why why he didn't 2:27:44.800 --> 2:27:47.000 bring in the air force at a a certain very 2:27:47.040 --> 2:27:53.560 critical moment that al Asad famed buddy of Henry Kay 2:27:53.760 --> 2:28:00.840 my friend. Yeah, everyone's friends. Everybody's friends. That's what makes 2:28:00.840 --> 2:28:05.360 politics fun. Yeah. Additionally, there are a systematic attempt to 2:28:05.440 --> 2:28:09.960 highlight petty disputes between Palestinian groups or contradictions in their 2:28:10.040 --> 2:28:16.200 leader strategy to frame Palestinians as a rational or disorganized um. 2:28:16.240 --> 2:28:18.680 And I will say that there has been significant changes 2:28:18.760 --> 2:28:21.160 in US media coverage of a conflict, especially in the 2:28:21.200 --> 2:28:23.520 last couple of years, and this is driven in part 2:28:23.560 --> 2:28:27.600 by popular pressure coming from social media. UM. There are 2:28:27.600 --> 2:28:29.960 also signs that Israel is becoming a part as an 2:28:29.959 --> 2:28:32.960 issue that divides liberals and conservatives in the US, with 2:28:33.080 --> 2:28:35.880 polls showing that growing numbers of Americans would like their 2:28:35.920 --> 2:28:40.000 government to take a more even handed stance on the conflict. However, 2:28:40.240 --> 2:28:43.680 hardline supporters of the Israeli government have seemingly shifted their 2:28:43.680 --> 2:28:47.800 approach from winning quote hearts and minds to punishing opponents. 2:28:48.240 --> 2:28:52.880 They've published blacklists of Palestinian activists, they've censored public figures 2:28:52.879 --> 2:28:55.000 that are vocal about the conflict, they've speared them as 2:28:55.040 --> 2:28:59.600 anti Semitics, and they've advocated for laws to restrict boycotts 2:28:59.640 --> 2:29:02.400 of his really goods. I want to just take a 2:29:02.400 --> 2:29:05.480 really quick sidebar to mention that boycotting works. I'll lose 2:29:05.480 --> 2:29:08.240 another episode probably one day about the BDS movement. But 2:29:08.360 --> 2:29:12.440 BDS stands for boycott investment in sanctions and it works 2:29:12.440 --> 2:29:17.360 to end international support for Israel's oppression of Palestinians UM 2:29:17.400 --> 2:29:21.880 and pressure Israel to comply with international law UM just 2:29:22.000 --> 2:29:26.040 by boycotting products and companies that are either based in 2:29:26.120 --> 2:29:28.959 Israel or have products from Israel. And it works because 2:29:29.000 --> 2:29:31.240 Israel doesn't like it, and I think that's fair, Like 2:29:31.320 --> 2:29:34.600 that's telling enough that if Israel's has a problem with 2:29:34.640 --> 2:29:37.320 boycotting ship, you should keep doing it. And it's now 2:29:37.360 --> 2:29:40.360 a vibrant global movement made up it's made up of unions, 2:29:40.360 --> 2:29:44.760 academic associations, churches, and grassroots movements across the world. B 2:29:44.920 --> 2:29:48.080 d S launch in two thousand and five, and it 2:29:48.120 --> 2:29:51.160 has a major impact and effectively challenging international support for 2:29:51.240 --> 2:29:54.920 Israeli apartheid and settler colonialism. So that's my sidebar about 2:29:54.920 --> 2:29:58.680 b DS. But nonetheless, people that have followed the US 2:29:58.760 --> 2:30:01.760 debate on the quote quote conflict for decades say that 2:30:01.840 --> 2:30:05.160 there are serious tectonic changes occurring at the level of 2:30:05.160 --> 2:30:08.520 the American public, both in media and in popular sentiment. 2:30:09.360 --> 2:30:13.960 Phyllis Bennie, the director of the New Internationalism Project at 2:30:13.959 --> 2:30:18.960 the Institute for Policy Studies, a DC based progressive think tank, said, 2:30:19.320 --> 2:30:21.920 although news coverage is not even handed and is still 2:30:22.000 --> 2:30:25.360 generally skewed towards the Israeli perspective, there has been a 2:30:25.360 --> 2:30:27.840 massive shift over the past five years and how this 2:30:27.920 --> 2:30:30.600 issue is both reported and discussed in the United States. 2:30:31.400 --> 2:30:33.440 We are seeing a shift in the types of stories 2:30:33.440 --> 2:30:35.800 that are being covered by major outlets, as well as 2:30:35.800 --> 2:30:38.640 the stances that public figures are willing to take. There 2:30:38.680 --> 2:30:42.280 are still huge problems, but things are changing. The discourse 2:30:42.320 --> 2:30:45.879 on Israel Palestine is nothing like it was in decades past, 2:30:46.160 --> 2:30:49.840 which is very true and for me personally, seeing the 2:30:49.879 --> 2:30:55.240 public discords change firsthand has been very surreal, uh and amazing, 2:30:55.520 --> 2:30:58.240 but really surreal because I think a lot of Palestinians 2:30:58.240 --> 2:31:03.520 and Palestinian supporters never thought it would happen um seeing 2:31:03.560 --> 2:31:07.840 public figures talk so actively about being pro Palestine, and 2:31:07.959 --> 2:31:14.560 even though this occupation, this problem seems insurmountable, outing these 2:31:15.080 --> 2:31:18.879 quote unquote journalists and news outlets is extremely important. Because 2:31:18.879 --> 2:31:21.720 of public opinion and pressure is strong enough, things have 2:31:21.800 --> 2:31:24.200 to change. And the proof of this is seeing the 2:31:24.200 --> 2:31:26.680 headline that I mentioned at the very top, where The 2:31:26.720 --> 2:31:30.320 Times changed their headline because of widespread discussed express on 2:31:30.320 --> 2:31:34.360 social media and speaking up and sharing the truth on 2:31:34.400 --> 2:31:38.119 social media is extremely important, especially if you aren't Palestinian, 2:31:38.120 --> 2:31:40.720 and especially if you live somewhere that is skewing all 2:31:40.760 --> 2:31:43.959 these news headlines against Palestinians. There's nothing else but your 2:31:44.040 --> 2:31:48.000 voice left and Palestinian voices have been and are continuing 2:31:48.040 --> 2:31:51.640 to be silenced. And this is not simply Palestinian issue. 2:31:52.000 --> 2:31:54.199 It's a human issue that calls for humans to stand 2:31:54.240 --> 2:31:57.440 up when they are witnessing extreme injustice take place and 2:31:57.600 --> 2:32:00.480 boycotting works or else Israel wouldn't be so afraid of it. 2:32:01.120 --> 2:32:04.240 Choosing to remain silent is choosing the side of the oppressor. 2:32:04.280 --> 2:32:07.480 You've heard it before, It's true, uh, and I am 2:32:07.520 --> 2:32:09.520 hopeful with the chains that we've seen the last few 2:32:09.640 --> 2:32:12.200 years with public figures using their platforms to speak out 2:32:12.240 --> 2:32:15.640 and depend Palestine. I think it's honestly the best use 2:32:15.680 --> 2:32:18.800 of their platform and I respect them for that. Uh 2:32:18.840 --> 2:32:20.840 And I know that, like the concept of celebrity is 2:32:20.920 --> 2:32:25.480 ridiculous and stupid, but I think if you have the 2:32:25.560 --> 2:32:28.879 platform and you have millions of people watching you, using 2:32:28.920 --> 2:32:32.360 your voice in a way to support people that are 2:32:32.360 --> 2:32:34.920 in danger and like stand up for the oppressed is 2:32:35.200 --> 2:32:37.640 the one of the only things you should do. And 2:32:37.680 --> 2:32:40.680 people that I respect this includes Bella Hadid, Susan Sarandon, 2:32:40.800 --> 2:32:43.840 Nightie Portman, Selena Gomez, Dualipa The Weekend, just to name 2:32:43.840 --> 2:32:46.520 a few. These people are huge names, they have millions 2:32:46.520 --> 2:32:48.920 of people watching them, and they're not afraid to speak up, 2:32:49.240 --> 2:32:52.640 especially Bella Hadid recently, like every other story she posts 2:32:52.680 --> 2:32:56.280 on Instagram is about these really occupation um which I 2:32:56.320 --> 2:33:00.040 really respect. I really respect that she has take in 2:33:00.120 --> 2:33:04.280 such a clear stance and utilizing their platform. It does 2:33:04.320 --> 2:33:08.800 make a difference in public perception because fans that follow 2:33:08.840 --> 2:33:12.600 her might not follow news or anything else. It's there's 2:33:12.600 --> 2:33:14.560 just a lot of crossover that I think is really valuable, 2:33:15.320 --> 2:33:18.039 and ultimately, I think using your voice is the only 2:33:18.120 --> 2:33:22.400 right thing to do and any alternative or silence is 2:33:22.440 --> 2:33:29.080 simply cowardice. And that's my time. That's what I got today. 2:33:30.840 --> 2:33:35.199 All right, Well, thank you Sharne. Um. This was pretty 2:33:35.200 --> 2:33:38.480 bleak but important, and um I tried to uplift at 2:33:38.520 --> 2:34:01.560 the very end, all of you go go okay, oh oh, 2:34:01.840 --> 2:34:08.920 don't ever do it again. Nope, it could be How 2:34:08.920 --> 2:34:14.160 are we opening a show? We're going to distance? Sharine 2:34:15.040 --> 2:34:19.480 going the distance? Hello for speed. Hello, this is Sharene 2:34:19.959 --> 2:34:24.160 and I'm talking to you from It can happen here? Oh, 2:34:24.160 --> 2:34:28.600 it could happen here. Isn't that a podcast? Yeah? Robert, 2:34:28.640 --> 2:34:33.480 you're correct. Do you want to tell everybody what that is? Okay, 2:34:33.840 --> 2:34:39.600 jortya today is Robert Evans, Sophie and Chris and Garrison. Um, 2:34:39.680 --> 2:34:42.000 I'm going to be running the show today for those 2:34:42.040 --> 2:34:46.160 of you but didn't like yesterday. Too bad. Yeah, motherfucker's 2:34:47.680 --> 2:34:51.000 die and go to hell. I'm sorry at much that 2:34:51.080 --> 2:34:54.320 was a little much death threats. It was more of 2:34:54.320 --> 2:35:00.200 a promise. Okay, Okay, I do want to take over today. Uh. 2:35:00.320 --> 2:35:03.360 I wanted I wanted to focus an episode on Sharin 2:35:03.480 --> 2:35:06.520 a blue acklet who was a Palestinate American journalist who 2:35:06.520 --> 2:35:10.480 worked as a reporter for Aldo Zeerra for twenty five years. UH. 2:35:10.760 --> 2:35:12.640 She was one of the most prominent names across the 2:35:12.680 --> 2:35:15.720 Middle East for her decades of reporting on the Israeli 2:35:15.760 --> 2:35:20.160 occupied Palestinian territories. And she was killed last month. And 2:35:20.720 --> 2:35:22.280 you might have heard of it, you might have not. 2:35:22.480 --> 2:35:26.160 But I think her death deserves some more attention. And 2:35:26.240 --> 2:35:31.720 I also think it reflects a bigger issue. Um, let's 2:35:31.720 --> 2:35:35.119 just jump right in. She was killed by Israeli soldiers 2:35:35.160 --> 2:35:39.680 on May eleven. UM. And although Israel commits these kinds 2:35:39.720 --> 2:35:43.240 of like vile crimes against humanity and against Palestinians virtually 2:35:43.280 --> 2:35:47.520 every day, including but not limited to murder, torture, imprisonment, harassment, 2:35:47.600 --> 2:35:51.520 force displacement aka ethnic cleansing, um, Israel gets away with 2:35:51.560 --> 2:35:54.199 its crimes every time. And last episode we talked about 2:35:54.200 --> 2:35:57.200 how the media enforces a blameless view of Israel and 2:35:57.280 --> 2:36:00.360 how that's an element to all the passes it was eaves. 2:36:00.840 --> 2:36:02.800 And even though I'm going to focus mostly on one 2:36:02.800 --> 2:36:05.680 woman's death in this episode, like I said, she represents 2:36:05.760 --> 2:36:08.320 something so much more. And while I wish I can 2:36:08.400 --> 2:36:11.480 give every victim of Israel an entire episode. I would 2:36:11.480 --> 2:36:15.160 take a million episodes. Um. So here we are Palestinians 2:36:15.160 --> 2:36:17.520 live in a constant state of trauma, and there's no 2:36:17.640 --> 2:36:20.560 time to grieve. They're dead, and even when they do grieve, 2:36:20.680 --> 2:36:22.840 it becomes a target for the I d F, which 2:36:22.879 --> 2:36:25.200 I'll get into later, but I want to tell you 2:36:25.240 --> 2:36:28.400 for now how Sharne was killed. For a while, there 2:36:28.440 --> 2:36:30.880 was only one video, which should be more than enough, 2:36:30.920 --> 2:36:33.320 but I digress. There's only one video in the beginning 2:36:33.360 --> 2:36:36.240 that seemed to prove that Sharne was targeted and assassinated 2:36:36.280 --> 2:36:39.000 despite wearing a press vest. She had been standing with 2:36:39.000 --> 2:36:41.280 a group of journalists near the entrance of the Agenda 2:36:41.320 --> 2:36:44.600 refugee camp, where the journalists were there to cover uh 2:36:44.640 --> 2:36:48.120 in Israeli raid. While the footage does not show of 2:36:48.720 --> 2:36:52.000 being killed, eye witnesses told CNN that they believe Israeli 2:36:52.040 --> 2:36:55.640 forces on the same street deliberately fired on the reporters 2:36:55.920 --> 2:36:59.000 in a targeted attack. All of the journalists were wearing 2:36:59.040 --> 2:37:02.800 protective blue vest and um they identified themselves as a 2:37:02.800 --> 2:37:05.520 member of the news media to the Israelis that were 2:37:05.520 --> 2:37:09.000 across the street. So this video This first video was 2:37:09.080 --> 2:37:11.920 filmed by al Jazi or a cameraman Meschi Banura, and 2:37:11.959 --> 2:37:14.640 it shows that round six thirty am on May eleventh 2:37:14.680 --> 2:37:18.800 and Genin, multiple shots are fired. The cameraman filming the 2:37:18.840 --> 2:37:22.320 scene scrambles backwards to take cover behind a low concrete wall. 2:37:22.760 --> 2:37:26.800 The man cries out in Arabic Sharine injured, Sharine, ambulance. 2:37:27.360 --> 2:37:31.119 When the camera finally pans around the corner, you see 2:37:31.120 --> 2:37:35.880 Sharine lying motionless on the ground, face down, and another 2:37:35.920 --> 2:37:40.199 Palestine reporter shaped the Handsha She She crouches down beside 2:37:40.200 --> 2:37:43.320 her and uses a tree chunk for cover. She reaches 2:37:43.360 --> 2:37:46.680 out and tries to get her colleague. The gunshots continue 2:37:47.280 --> 2:37:50.200 and there's no response. Both women are wearing helmets and 2:37:50.200 --> 2:37:54.279 blue protective vests. Mark Press and in the moments that followed, 2:37:54.280 --> 2:37:56.080 there's a man in a white shirt that makes several 2:37:56.120 --> 2:38:00.480 attempts to move a Buckle's body Uh and is forced 2:38:00.480 --> 2:38:04.320 to repeatedly back away by gunfire, and after a few 2:38:04.440 --> 2:38:07.720 very long minutes, he manages to drag her body from 2:38:07.760 --> 2:38:12.240 the street. One of the reporters, Hanaisia. She told CNN 2:38:12.400 --> 2:38:14.920 that we stood in front of the Israeli military vehicles 2:38:14.959 --> 2:38:17.960 for about five to ten minutes before we made moves 2:38:18.000 --> 2:38:20.199 to ensure that they saw us. This is a habit 2:38:20.200 --> 2:38:22.320 of ours as journalists. We move as a group and 2:38:22.320 --> 2:38:24.000 we stay in front of them so they know we 2:38:24.040 --> 2:38:27.959 are journalists, and then we start moving. So this is 2:38:28.120 --> 2:38:31.600 like they do this cautious approach every time towards when 2:38:31.640 --> 2:38:34.800 they're in the midst of the Israeli military so they 2:38:34.840 --> 2:38:37.800 can be safe. And she says that I didn't think 2:38:37.800 --> 2:38:40.520 they were trying to kill us. On the day of 2:38:40.520 --> 2:38:44.720 the shooting, is really military spokesperson Ran Katchov told Army 2:38:44.840 --> 2:38:48.240 Radio that Abu Akla had been filming and working for 2:38:48.280 --> 2:38:52.720 a media outlet amidst armed Palestinians. He said, they're armed 2:38:52.720 --> 2:38:56.080 with cameras, if you'll permit me to say so. According 2:38:56.120 --> 2:39:00.840 to the Times of Israel, the Israeli military says it 2:39:01.000 --> 2:39:03.520 is not clear who fired the fatal shot, and in 2:39:03.560 --> 2:39:05.920 a preliminary inquiry, the army said that there was a 2:39:05.920 --> 2:39:09.800 possibility that she was either hit by an indiscriminate Palestinian 2:39:09.800 --> 2:39:14.640 gunfire or by Israeli sniper positioned about two ds away 2:39:14.680 --> 2:39:17.480 that was in an exchange with a Palestinian gunmen, So 2:39:18.080 --> 2:39:21.120 no blame to the Israelis at all. The i d 2:39:21.320 --> 2:39:24.040 F said that on May nineteenth had not yet decided 2:39:24.040 --> 2:39:27.200 whether to pursue a criminal investigation into her death. On 2:39:27.280 --> 2:39:31.199 May three, the Israeli military's top lawyer, Major General Yafat 2:39:31.280 --> 2:39:34.640 tomd you you're a shelm me. I'm sorry, I probably 2:39:35.440 --> 2:39:37.240 saying that wrong, but he said in a speech that 2:39:37.320 --> 2:39:40.880 under the military's policy, a criminal investigation is not automatically 2:39:40.959 --> 2:39:43.440 launched if a person is killed in quote the midst 2:39:43.520 --> 2:39:46.480 of an active combat zone, unless there is credible and 2:39:46.520 --> 2:39:50.400 immediate suspicion of a criminal offense. A lot of US 2:39:50.480 --> 2:39:53.720 lawmakers and UH, the U N and international community have 2:39:53.760 --> 2:39:56.360 called for an independent probe, which hasn't really met anything 2:39:56.360 --> 2:40:00.720 because it's not happening. An investigation by CNN. Uh, it 2:40:00.760 --> 2:40:03.640 offers a lot of new evidence and UH, it's an 2:40:03.640 --> 2:40:06.039 investigation that really respect. The article is really well done. 2:40:06.040 --> 2:40:08.279 It will be in the sources whenever that comes out whatever. 2:40:08.720 --> 2:40:12.560 But this report, this investigation included two videos of the 2:40:12.600 --> 2:40:16.720 scene of the shooting. Uh. There was no active combat 2:40:17.000 --> 2:40:21.680 nor any Palestinian militants near Abo the moment that led 2:40:21.760 --> 2:40:24.200 up to her death, and the videos are Crow crob 2:40:24.280 --> 2:40:28.240 raided by testimony from eight eyewitnesses, an audio forensic analysts, 2:40:28.240 --> 2:40:31.800 and an explosive weapons expert that suggests that she was 2:40:31.840 --> 2:40:35.320 shot dead in a targeted attack by Israeli forces. A 2:40:35.320 --> 2:40:38.800 lot of the footage shows a calm scene before the 2:40:38.840 --> 2:40:41.720 reporters came under fire in the outskirts of the jen 2:40:41.840 --> 2:40:45.359 And refugee camp. The other journalists and three local residents 2:40:45.400 --> 2:40:47.440 said that it had been a normal morning in Jenin. 2:40:47.959 --> 2:40:51.800 It's home to about three forty five thousand people, eleven 2:40:52.120 --> 2:40:55.000 thousand and four hundred of whom live in the refugee camp. 2:40:55.520 --> 2:40:58.000 Many this morning were on their way to work or school, 2:40:58.440 --> 2:41:02.720 and the street was relatively quiet it. Sharienabu Klea was 2:41:02.800 --> 2:41:05.840 a veteran journalist. She's a household name across the Arab 2:41:05.879 --> 2:41:09.000 world for her coverage of Israel and Palestine and Israel's 2:41:09.000 --> 2:41:12.400 occupation of the Palestinian territories. She arrived in Jenna to 2:41:12.400 --> 2:41:15.800 report on the raid uh. She was an icon. She's 2:41:15.800 --> 2:41:18.440 really loved, or was really loved and admired by the 2:41:18.560 --> 2:41:20.520 entire Arab world. It's weird to use past tense. It's 2:41:20.560 --> 2:41:23.120 really sad for me. But when she arrived there but 2:41:23.200 --> 2:41:25.560 a dozen or so men, some dressed in sweats or 2:41:25.560 --> 2:41:28.039 flip flops, They had gathered to watch Abu Klea and 2:41:28.080 --> 2:41:31.800 her colleagues at work. They were milling around, chatting, some 2:41:31.879 --> 2:41:34.560 smoking cigarettes, and others were filming the scene on their phones. 2:41:35.160 --> 2:41:39.240 In one sixteen minute cell phone video, the man filming 2:41:39.400 --> 2:41:42.360 walks towards the spot where journalists had gathered, zooming in 2:41:42.400 --> 2:41:44.560 on the Israeli armored vehicles that were parked in the 2:41:44.600 --> 2:41:47.280 distance that they could see, and he says, look at 2:41:47.280 --> 2:41:51.320 the snipers. This is before anything had happened. And a 2:41:51.360 --> 2:41:55.120 teenager in this video that he peers tentatively over the 2:41:55.120 --> 2:41:57.400 street and he shouts, don't kid around. Do you think 2:41:57.440 --> 2:41:59.240 it's a joke. We don't want to die, We want 2:41:59.280 --> 2:42:03.400 to live. The person that recorded the sixteen minute video 2:42:03.440 --> 2:42:06.360 Salim Awad. He's a twenty seven year old jedd And 2:42:06.480 --> 2:42:10.880 Camp refugee resident who filmed the video and told CNN 2:42:10.959 --> 2:42:13.440 that there were no armed Palestinians or any clashes of 2:42:13.440 --> 2:42:15.800 any kind in the area and he hadn't expected there 2:42:15.800 --> 2:42:19.560 to be gunfire at all given the presence of journalists nearby. 2:42:20.120 --> 2:42:22.480 He said that there was no conflict or confrontations at all. 2:42:22.600 --> 2:42:25.080 We were about ten guys give or take, walking around, 2:42:25.200 --> 2:42:28.000 laughing and joking with journalists. We were not afraid of anything. 2:42:28.080 --> 2:42:30.640 We didn't expect anything would happen because when we saw 2:42:30.760 --> 2:42:34.640 journalists around, we thought it would be a safe area. Obviously, 2:42:34.720 --> 2:42:38.160 the situation changed rapidly, and he said that the shooting 2:42:38.200 --> 2:42:40.840 broke out about seven minutes after he arrived at the scene, 2:42:41.280 --> 2:42:44.080 and his video captures this, and he also captures the 2:42:44.080 --> 2:42:46.720 moments that the shots were fired at the four journalists. 2:42:47.200 --> 2:42:51.480 And the four journalists by the way uh Abuka that 2:42:51.480 --> 2:42:55.920 I mentioned earlier, another Palestinian journalist Jahil Sadi, and then 2:42:56.080 --> 2:42:59.360 the L Jazeera producer Ali Elsa Maudi, who was injured 2:42:59.360 --> 2:43:02.440 in the gunfire. But these four journalists, they walked towards 2:43:02.440 --> 2:43:05.560 the Israeli vehicles. They showed them that their pressed in 2:43:05.600 --> 2:43:09.280 the footage, as the gunfire starts, can be seen turning 2:43:09.320 --> 2:43:12.440 away from the barrage, and then the footage shows a 2:43:12.480 --> 2:43:17.800 direct line of sight towards the Israeli convoy. He said, 2:43:18.000 --> 2:43:20.480 we saw around four or five military vehicles on that 2:43:20.600 --> 2:43:22.600 street with rifles sticking out of them, and one of 2:43:22.600 --> 2:43:25.280 them shot Sharine. We were standing right there. We saw it. 2:43:25.480 --> 2:43:27.560 When we tried to approach her, they shot at us. 2:43:28.200 --> 2:43:30.400 I tried to cross the street to help, but I couldn't. 2:43:31.120 --> 2:43:34.080 He added that he saw a bullet strike a lackland 2:43:34.120 --> 2:43:37.680 then gap between her helmet and her protectivest right by 2:43:37.720 --> 2:43:42.879 her ear. Another sixteen year old he was among the 2:43:42.879 --> 2:43:45.320 group of men and boys on the street, told CNN 2:43:45.400 --> 2:43:47.920 that they were no shots fired, no stone throwing, nothing 2:43:48.360 --> 2:43:50.600 when she was shot. And he said that journalists had 2:43:50.600 --> 2:43:52.600 told them to not follow them as they walked towards 2:43:52.680 --> 2:43:55.480 these really forces to identify themselves, so they so he 2:43:55.520 --> 2:43:58.320 stayed back, and then when gunfire broke out, he ducked 2:43:58.320 --> 2:44:01.000 behind a car in the road and he watched the 2:44:01.040 --> 2:44:04.000 moment that Shrine was killed, and he shared his video 2:44:04.000 --> 2:44:06.920 with CNN that was filmed at six thirty six am, 2:44:07.080 --> 2:44:09.920 just after the journalist left the scene too for the hospital, 2:44:10.440 --> 2:44:14.080 and it showed the five Israeli army vehicles driving slowly 2:44:14.120 --> 2:44:18.080 past the spot where Sharne was killed before leaving the camp. 2:44:18.720 --> 2:44:22.080 CNN reviewed a total of eleven videos showing the scene 2:44:22.120 --> 2:44:26.000 and the Israeli military convoy from different angles, before, during, 2:44:26.040 --> 2:44:30.320 and after a was killed. Eyewitnesses who were filming when 2:44:30.320 --> 2:44:32.680 the journalist was shot, were also in the line of fire, 2:44:32.720 --> 2:44:35.120 and they pulled back when the gunfire started, so it 2:44:35.120 --> 2:44:37.440 doesn't capture the exact moment that she was hit with 2:44:37.480 --> 2:44:40.120 the bullet, which I think is the little amount of 2:44:40.680 --> 2:44:44.400 sliver of space that Israel needs to be like. It 2:44:44.440 --> 2:44:47.520 wasn't us, but obviously it was our multiple witnesses. There 2:44:47.600 --> 2:44:52.680 multiple videos that show it. Um. But regardless, there wasn't 2:44:52.720 --> 2:44:55.920 a clash, there wasn't any Palestinian gunfire. The idea for 2:44:55.959 --> 2:44:59.840 shooting directly at the journalists and they assassinated Sharine. A. Buachl, 2:45:01.160 --> 2:45:04.760 a senior is really security official, flatly denied to CNN 2:45:04.760 --> 2:45:08.560 on May eighth that has really troops killed her intentionally. 2:45:08.959 --> 2:45:12.280 The officials spoke under the condition of anonymity to discuss 2:45:12.360 --> 2:45:17.480 details about an investigation that remains formally open. UH. The 2:45:17.520 --> 2:45:19.720 officials said, in no way would the I d F 2:45:19.840 --> 2:45:22.920 ever target a civilian, especially a member of the press. 2:45:23.920 --> 2:45:26.120 An I d F soldier would never fire at M 2:45:26.160 --> 2:45:31.160 sixteen on automatic. They shoot bullet by bullet. Uh. This 2:45:31.280 --> 2:45:35.200 is in contrast with israel assertion that Palestinian militants were 2:45:35.240 --> 2:45:39.240 firing recklessly and indiscriminately while its soldiers conducted the raid. 2:45:39.280 --> 2:45:44.480 In Genin, there's a security consultant and British Army veteran 2:45:44.680 --> 2:45:48.600 Cobb Smith uh. He told CNN that he believed Doubly 2:45:48.760 --> 2:45:51.360 was killed in discrete shots, not by a burst of 2:45:51.400 --> 2:45:54.320 automatic gunfire, and to reach the conclusion, he looked at 2:45:54.320 --> 2:45:57.680 imagery obtained by CNN that showed markings that the bullets 2:45:57.760 --> 2:46:01.680 left behind on the tree where she had fallen and 2:46:01.800 --> 2:46:05.640 her other colleague was taken cover. He told CNN that 2:46:05.879 --> 2:46:08.320 the number of strike marks on the tree where Sharine 2:46:08.320 --> 2:46:11.120 was standing proves this wasn't a random shot. She was 2:46:11.160 --> 2:46:14.480 targeted at two. He said that there was no chance 2:46:14.520 --> 2:46:16.840 that the random firing would result in the three or 2:46:16.879 --> 2:46:20.160 four shots hitting such a light or such a tight configuration. 2:46:21.000 --> 2:46:23.039 From the strike marks on the tree, it appears that 2:46:23.080 --> 2:46:26.240 the shots, one of which hit Sharine, came from down 2:46:26.240 --> 2:46:28.400 the street from the direction of the I d F troops. 2:46:28.840 --> 2:46:32.000 The relatively tight grouping of the rounds indicate Sharine was 2:46:32.040 --> 2:46:35.080 intentionally targeted with aim shots and not the victim of 2:46:35.080 --> 2:46:39.280 a random or stray fire. This tree is now referred 2:46:39.320 --> 2:46:42.280 to in Jenin as the Journalist Tree and has become 2:46:42.320 --> 2:46:45.760 a makeshift shrine to ebo Auklet with photographs of the 2:46:45.760 --> 2:46:50.279 beloved reporter taped to the trunk and Palestinian hafia scarves 2:46:50.280 --> 2:46:53.119 the checkered, not checkered, but like the black and white 2:46:53.120 --> 2:46:57.600 scarves that you probably see Palestine and protests UH draped 2:46:57.640 --> 2:47:01.240 on the branches. She was lugged by very many and 2:47:01.360 --> 2:47:04.600 the entirety of Palestine, everyone who supports its liberation, have 2:47:04.720 --> 2:47:09.240 been grieving for this like insurmountable loss. Uh. And to 2:47:09.360 --> 2:47:13.600 look this discussion back into yesterday's extreme media bias episode 2:47:14.360 --> 2:47:18.320 where the media favors Israel. Here are a few headlines 2:47:18.360 --> 2:47:23.039 that describe her murder. The New York Times said, Sharine 2:47:23.040 --> 2:47:28.440 abu akly, trailblazing Palestinian journalists dies at fifty one. She 2:47:28.600 --> 2:47:36.760 dies from what heart failure disease? Like and I will 2:47:36.800 --> 2:47:40.000 I will, I will bet you. And this is not 2:47:40.120 --> 2:47:44.640 to let the the the New the New York Times 2:47:44.640 --> 2:47:46.320 off the hook, but I will bet you the fact 2:47:46.360 --> 2:47:49.800 that the title even acknowledged her death that much was 2:47:49.959 --> 2:47:53.840 the result of a tremendous battle behind the scenes, for sure, 2:47:54.000 --> 2:47:59.120 Like yeah, yeah, it's which they wouldn't do for anybody else, right, 2:47:59.200 --> 2:48:01.760 Like they would, they would fucking immediately call out, like 2:48:01.800 --> 2:48:04.280 the Russian military or even the U. S Military if 2:48:04.320 --> 2:48:07.440 it had killed an American journalist, which I'm not saying that. 2:48:07.680 --> 2:48:09.080 I don't think it's you know, I'm going to bring 2:48:09.160 --> 2:48:10.800 that up right now than if she was Palestinian. No, 2:48:10.800 --> 2:48:13.080 I'm going to bring that up right now. Brent Renaud, 2:48:13.320 --> 2:48:15.800 he's an American journalist that was killed in Ukraine. There 2:48:15.800 --> 2:48:19.320 were two headlines that were that for articles. His headline 2:48:19.360 --> 2:48:23.840 read an American journalist killed in Ukraine. Hers said a 2:48:23.920 --> 2:48:27.600 Palestinian journalist dies at fifty one. Keep in mind, Sharine 2:48:27.680 --> 2:48:30.680 is a it's a Palestinian American. Not that it fucking matters, 2:48:30.720 --> 2:48:33.520 but these are both American journalists and they were killed 2:48:33.520 --> 2:48:37.440 working on their assignment. It matters to highlight the hypocrisy, 2:48:37.480 --> 2:48:41.240 not because one nationality of journalist is less worthy of 2:48:41.240 --> 2:48:44.320 being killed than another. I mean even it's even frustrating 2:48:44.400 --> 2:48:49.360 that their their value of life is even greater because 2:48:49.360 --> 2:48:52.560 they're a quote unquote journalist. Yes, there's a lot that's 2:48:52.560 --> 2:48:57.400 frustrating about it. They can killed dozens of like Palestinian 2:48:57.920 --> 2:49:01.160 people and it doesn't matter, But one quote unquote American 2:49:01.240 --> 2:49:03.320 journalist eyes, and now it's a big story, which like 2:49:03.640 --> 2:49:06.160 it's horrible, it would be. They're not not downplay how 2:49:06.200 --> 2:49:09.760 bad it is. But I am really uncomfortable with how 2:49:09.840 --> 2:49:13.000 much emphasis we put on like Americans. And then of 2:49:13.000 --> 2:49:15.240 course just like someone being a journalist as opposed to 2:49:15.240 --> 2:49:18.760 just like people who are like worshiping or killing people 2:49:18.760 --> 2:49:21.879 in the street, right, who are just regular Palestinians. And 2:49:21.920 --> 2:49:24.680 that's that's a whole other aspect. You know, war zone, 2:49:24.760 --> 2:49:27.720 the only like ethically, really the only division should be 2:49:27.720 --> 2:49:32.160 between soldiers, people under arms and civilians who are not 2:49:32.440 --> 2:49:35.800 right um, and it should always be seen as like 2:49:35.879 --> 2:49:39.440 a tragedy and a mistake worthy of like some sort 2:49:39.640 --> 2:49:43.400 of restitution or vengeance when civilians are killed by soldiers 2:49:43.400 --> 2:49:45.720 in a war zone like that would be ideal. But 2:49:45.800 --> 2:49:50.879 also you know the world, that's what it is. But no, 2:49:51.080 --> 2:49:54.440 I second everything you guys said. And I'm looking at 2:49:54.520 --> 2:49:58.120 tweet from Amon Martin Dean. He's an Egyptian board journalist 2:49:58.120 --> 2:50:00.680 that's based in New York and he works for NBC MSNBC. 2:50:01.360 --> 2:50:04.920 But he tweeted this contrast these headlines of right Renaud, 2:50:05.040 --> 2:50:08.480 an American journalist killed in Ukraine, and Sharina Buccoli, a 2:50:08.560 --> 2:50:13.640 Palestinian journalists dying at fifty one. Like, first of all, everything, 2:50:13.640 --> 2:50:15.720 you guys, just it's it's repetitive at this point to 2:50:15.800 --> 2:50:18.960 keep talking about it. But they've stripped her of her 2:50:19.000 --> 2:50:24.360 American identity. Her Palestinian identity erases um the importance that 2:50:24.400 --> 2:50:27.320 her death has for some reason, because she's not seen 2:50:27.360 --> 2:50:30.800 that as an American journalist, even though she is. And again, 2:50:30.840 --> 2:50:34.039 the concept of that being important is ludicrous to begin with. 2:50:34.120 --> 2:50:37.760 But that's the world. It's still a way to do 2:50:37.920 --> 2:50:40.080 it's still in their minds. It's still a way to 2:50:40.160 --> 2:50:43.280 dehumanize them, which is like gross on a whole other level. 2:50:43.720 --> 2:50:46.360 But it's it's it's yeah, there's there's so many ways 2:50:46.400 --> 2:50:51.160 that it's horrible that it's hard to even like cover head. Yeah, totally, 2:50:51.520 --> 2:50:56.280 I agree. And now it's time for a break. And 2:50:56.840 --> 2:51:00.560 I don't have a great segue, like this is a 2:51:00.600 --> 2:51:09.000 hard one to you know, who will X the break? 2:51:11.879 --> 2:51:14.200 We're back. I want to talk about her funeral now, 2:51:14.240 --> 2:51:17.480 Sharne's funeral. Just to bring up one last headline, I'll 2:51:17.520 --> 2:51:20.440 get into a half at the funeral. But the BBC 2:51:20.600 --> 2:51:24.480 News said that Sharine abu Akle violence at Al Jazeera 2:51:24.560 --> 2:51:28.600 reporter's funeral in Jerusalem. Side note, Even saying that she's 2:51:28.600 --> 2:51:31.200 an El Jazeera reporter versus just like an American journalist 2:51:31.240 --> 2:51:34.120 is another way to dehumanize her because Al Jazeera is 2:51:34.160 --> 2:51:39.280 seen as like this scary Arabic organization. It's like, oh, 2:51:39.440 --> 2:51:43.160 they're brown people, is what they're trying to say exactly. 2:51:43.720 --> 2:51:46.280 And the real headline that should have been shared is 2:51:46.320 --> 2:51:49.640 that Israeli forces were attacking and beating Palestinian mortars at 2:51:49.680 --> 2:51:54.720 her funeral. Let's talk about that. The Friday following her death, May, 2:51:55.520 --> 2:51:59.400 a funeral procession was held for Sharine in Jerusalem, but 2:51:59.520 --> 2:52:01.920 her funeral role was marred by another burst of violence 2:52:02.160 --> 2:52:05.840 early that afternoon, as thousands of people masked East Jerusalem 2:52:05.959 --> 2:52:09.000 for one of the largest Palestinian funerals in recent memory. 2:52:09.320 --> 2:52:11.879 A mob of Israeli riot police assaulted a group of 2:52:11.920 --> 2:52:15.560 mourners that were carrying the casket containing her body, uh 2:52:15.560 --> 2:52:18.800 and they almost dropped the casket because of the attack. 2:52:19.360 --> 2:52:21.640 There are videos of this and it was streamed live 2:52:21.800 --> 2:52:25.160 at one point, and it shows Idea soldiers clearly attacking 2:52:25.400 --> 2:52:28.680 people holding up a coffin, a coffin holding the body 2:52:28.720 --> 2:52:33.000 of someone Palestine loved, um, and they're just attempting to mourn. 2:52:33.080 --> 2:52:36.360 And even this is deemed punishable by Israel. I want 2:52:36.360 --> 2:52:38.400 to bring up that it was live and then all 2:52:38.440 --> 2:52:42.640 these videos are shown because there's just so many videos 2:52:42.680 --> 2:52:48.560 of a blatant blame like blatant attacks by Israeli's and uh, 2:52:48.600 --> 2:52:54.920 the Israeli military, and that that's not enough to condemn anything. Um. 2:52:54.959 --> 2:52:58.240 And there were no weapon, there was no provoking on 2:52:58.360 --> 2:53:02.400 any of any kind on the side of Palestinians. And again, 2:53:02.440 --> 2:53:04.360 like we have thousands of videos like this and the 2:53:04.360 --> 2:53:07.600 idea of clearly beating and at times killing Palestinians and 2:53:07.640 --> 2:53:11.360 nothing happens. Um. It's like similar to me of videos 2:53:11.360 --> 2:53:14.200 of police brutality in the US. Uh. They both keep 2:53:14.280 --> 2:53:16.560 doing it because they know they can't keep they won't 2:53:16.560 --> 2:53:19.360 be punished. Um. If this is what they duan camera, 2:53:19.400 --> 2:53:20.880 you can only imagine what they do off camera and 2:53:20.879 --> 2:53:24.440 when it's not being captured. Uh. In a separate episode, 2:53:24.440 --> 2:53:27.280 I'm sure I can bring up the crossover of Israel 2:53:27.360 --> 2:53:32.560 and US police because Israel trains US police um, and 2:53:32.600 --> 2:53:36.680 so there's a lot of connection there, But I digress. Um. 2:53:36.720 --> 2:53:40.400 It's just really horrifying if they know that this is 2:53:40.440 --> 2:53:42.960 all being captured, it doesn't stop them. It doesn't matter. 2:53:44.240 --> 2:53:47.280 And this assault occurred outside a hospital in East Jerusalem, 2:53:47.360 --> 2:53:50.320 where her body had been kept since another memorial happened 2:53:50.320 --> 2:53:53.000 the day before on Thursday, where hundreds had gathered to 2:53:53.040 --> 2:53:57.520 witness the start of her funeral cortage. Tensions arose between 2:53:57.560 --> 2:54:01.279 Palestinians and these really police officers after Palestinians began waving 2:54:01.280 --> 2:54:05.320 Palestinian flags. Things escalated after the police refused to allow 2:54:05.400 --> 2:54:08.119 mourners to take the coffin on their shoulders to the church, 2:54:08.440 --> 2:54:11.920 and then they began beating anyone in sight. The Israeli 2:54:12.000 --> 2:54:15.279 police later said that they had intervened because the mourners 2:54:15.360 --> 2:54:17.600 who wanted to carry the coffin by foot to the 2:54:17.640 --> 2:54:20.760 funeral had refused to put it in a hearse, which 2:54:20.760 --> 2:54:23.360 is an arrangement the police said had previously been agreed 2:54:23.400 --> 2:54:27.840 upon by her family. This obviously is address cause for 2:54:28.440 --> 2:54:32.119 starting to beat people um, which is absurd. It's so 2:54:32.200 --> 2:54:36.760 absurd because it's just like a traditional mourning. It's they're 2:54:36.800 --> 2:54:41.760 they're carrying this loved one on their backs, and the 2:54:41.800 --> 2:54:45.679 fact that she was almost dropped is like horrifying to me, Um, 2:54:45.840 --> 2:54:49.080 But regardless, there was this standoff between mourners and the 2:54:49.160 --> 2:54:51.959 police who refused to let them leave with the coffin 2:54:52.040 --> 2:54:54.199 from the hospital or like in the in the direction 2:54:54.360 --> 2:54:56.840 from the hospital to the church. And keep in mind 2:54:56.959 --> 2:55:01.720 again this is the standoff is really unbalanced. One side 2:55:01.720 --> 2:55:04.360 of it is as heavily armed and wearing helmets and 2:55:04.400 --> 2:55:07.320 swat gear, and the other side is holding a fucking coffin. 2:55:07.320 --> 2:55:10.480 And mourning officers swung their batons and they kicked and 2:55:10.520 --> 2:55:14.160 beat the men carrying the coffin, forcing them backward. They 2:55:14.240 --> 2:55:16.680 knocked over one man who had backed into the group 2:55:16.800 --> 2:55:18.920 that was carrying the coffin, and then they proceeded to 2:55:19.000 --> 2:55:21.120 kick him as he was lying on the ground. This 2:55:21.200 --> 2:55:24.120 is caught on video. Uh and I don't understand how 2:55:24.120 --> 2:55:28.000 anyone could possibly defend or gloss over why this happened. 2:55:28.640 --> 2:55:31.119 And as they were being hit, the coffin carriers briefly 2:55:31.160 --> 2:55:33.560 lost control, as I said, of one end of the coffin, 2:55:33.760 --> 2:55:37.640 which sagged suddenly to the ground. Um and mourners through 2:55:37.680 --> 2:55:41.960 projectiles in response, included what appeared to be a stick 2:55:42.480 --> 2:55:45.080 it officers through what appeared to be a stun a 2:55:45.120 --> 2:55:49.800 stunt in smoke grenades in response, so super warranted on 2:55:49.840 --> 2:55:53.160 their on their side. Um, but this occasion that was 2:55:53.200 --> 2:55:56.200 intended to be a moment of Catharsis had instead descended 2:55:56.200 --> 2:56:00.480 into chaos, and it just compounds the indignity the pain 2:56:00.680 --> 2:56:05.280 that too many Palestinians Abu Akli's death had embodied. And 2:56:05.360 --> 2:56:08.760 let's quickly fast forward to Sunday May twenty nine, where 2:56:09.200 --> 2:56:12.800 about seventy thousand Israelis marched through the Old City occupied 2:56:12.840 --> 2:56:17.120 East Jerusalem, waving Israeli flags, emphasizing that they, in their eyes, 2:56:17.120 --> 2:56:21.000 were the true rulers of Jerusalem. They were celebrating Jerusalem Day, 2:56:21.040 --> 2:56:23.440 which is an Israeli holiday that marks the capture of 2:56:23.440 --> 2:56:27.560 the Old City in nine seven seven also marks the 2:56:27.600 --> 2:56:32.080 occupation and the subsequent annexation of East Jerusalem, and Palestinians 2:56:32.080 --> 2:56:34.360 see this event, which passes through the heart of the 2:56:34.440 --> 2:56:38.320 Muslim center, as a provocation. Last year, the parade helped 2:56:38.320 --> 2:56:42.480 trigger an eleven day war with Goza militants. This doesn't 2:56:42.520 --> 2:56:45.680 stop the Paradian papping again, and this year it attracted 2:56:45.680 --> 2:56:50.000 one of the largest crowds on record. Palestinians old and 2:56:50.080 --> 2:56:54.360 young were attacked while Israeli forces watched on. Some marchers 2:56:54.560 --> 2:56:57.960 sprayed pepper spray at Palestinians and journalists. In one video 2:56:57.959 --> 2:57:00.520 shared on social media, a young Jewish man kicked and 2:57:00.600 --> 2:57:03.680 sprayed an older Palestinian woman in the face, sending her 2:57:03.680 --> 2:57:07.800 crumbling to the ground. Police fired rubber bullets, um and 2:57:07.959 --> 2:57:11.360 use clubs and pepper spray to disperse Palestinian protesters from 2:57:11.360 --> 2:57:14.200 the area, and all this time Palestinians were forced to 2:57:14.240 --> 2:57:19.039 listen as ultra nationalist Jews chanted anti Palestinian and Islamophobic 2:57:19.120 --> 2:57:25.080 chants such as death to Arabs and Muhammad is dead. Um. 2:57:25.240 --> 2:57:30.160 Groups of Orthodox Jewish youths gathered outside Damascus Gate, waving flags, 2:57:30.160 --> 2:57:34.640 singing religious and nationalistic songs. The crowds, who were overwhelmingly 2:57:34.800 --> 2:57:38.959 young Orthodox Jewish men, were shouting the Jewish nation lives 2:57:39.000 --> 2:57:43.440 before entering the Muslim quarter, one large group chanted death 2:57:43.480 --> 2:57:46.320 to Arabs and mayor village bird, which is a reference 2:57:46.480 --> 2:57:49.240 of the ethnic cleansing and the start of the occupation 2:57:49.720 --> 2:57:54.680 that occurred in and it's one of their very common chants. 2:57:54.720 --> 2:57:58.200 A lot of Zionists that parade through. These are the 2:57:58.280 --> 2:58:01.959 two most popular chance, if you want to call them that. 2:58:02.760 --> 2:58:06.760 Another chance, accompanied by boisterous dancing and the sound of drums. 2:58:07.200 --> 2:58:10.440 Included a Jew is a soul, an Arab is the 2:58:10.440 --> 2:58:14.760 son of a whore, and Shofayatte is on fire. And 2:58:14.920 --> 2:58:18.960 this is a disgusting chant. I mean, they're all disgusting, 2:58:18.959 --> 2:58:21.720 but this one, Shiffayatta is on fire. It celebrates the 2:58:21.760 --> 2:58:24.800 murder of fifteen year old Palestinian teenager in Muhammad Abuhadir 2:58:24.920 --> 2:58:30.119 by Israeli settlers in Jerusalem. And this child was kidnapped 2:58:30.120 --> 2:58:34.240 by Israeli settlers, tortured, forced to drink gasoline, and burned alive. 2:58:35.040 --> 2:58:38.000 So that's what they're celebrating when they're saying Shayata is 2:58:38.000 --> 2:58:41.920 on fire, and there's this tragedy is the focus of 2:58:42.080 --> 2:58:44.560 a miniseries that HBO did in twenty nineteen, which is 2:58:44.600 --> 2:58:48.280 pretty good and I recommend watching. It's called Our Boys, Um, 2:58:48.320 --> 2:58:51.320 and it was created by collaboration of both Israeli filmmakers 2:58:51.320 --> 2:58:54.880 and Palestinian filmmakers, so I respected their approach to this 2:58:55.000 --> 2:58:56.520 and I highly recommend watching it if you have the 2:58:56.560 --> 2:59:01.480 stemach for it. I cried a lot, but it's really good, um. Regardless, 2:59:01.720 --> 2:59:04.680 settlers were also chanting Sharin is a whore and Sharine 2:59:04.720 --> 2:59:09.320 is dead. So not only was her funeral this huge, 2:59:09.600 --> 2:59:13.760 like this huge portrayal of disrespect and in humanity, but 2:59:13.840 --> 2:59:20.000 this is the sentiment of these ultra nationalist Jewish protesters. 2:59:20.040 --> 2:59:23.400 They are happy she's dead. That's why she was targeted 2:59:23.400 --> 2:59:25.320 by the idea of probably they recognized her as a 2:59:25.400 --> 2:59:28.080 threat and this icon in the eyes of the Palestinians. 2:59:28.680 --> 2:59:31.760 Prime Minister and of Tally Bennett issued a statement instructing 2:59:31.760 --> 2:59:35.119 police to show quote no tolerance towards the racist groups. 2:59:35.400 --> 2:59:37.600 He described them as a minority that came to set 2:59:37.640 --> 2:59:41.560 the area on fire and vowed to prosecute violent extremists, 2:59:41.640 --> 2:59:45.160 which never happens and hasn't happened. An article in the 2:59:45.240 --> 2:59:49.240 Israeli daily Jerusalem Post that interviewed some of the Israelis 2:59:49.280 --> 2:59:53.360 participating in the march reflected a fervent nationalist mentality that 2:59:53.440 --> 2:59:57.200 interchanged the words Arabs and terrorists without a second thought. 2:59:59.000 --> 3:00:02.160 According to this article, most of the marchers are quote 3:00:02.200 --> 3:00:04.959 not driven by hate for Palestinians, but rather a love 3:00:05.000 --> 3:00:07.200 for Israel and the constant fear that it might not 3:00:07.280 --> 3:00:10.280 exist forever. Yeah, it would suck to feel like your 3:00:10.280 --> 3:00:16.600 home is not going to be around forever. Yeah, exactly. Yes, Uh, 3:00:17.000 --> 3:00:22.440 the irony is definitely lost on them. It's definitely the 3:00:23.200 --> 3:00:27.280 yes um. But the director of the Palestinian Forum for 3:00:27.400 --> 3:00:30.920 Israeli Studies, j Does Anim, she said that the political 3:00:30.959 --> 3:00:34.000 views of Israelis who attended the march are absolutely not 3:00:34.080 --> 3:00:39.080 a fringe element of Israeli society. She says, demographically speaking, 3:00:39.160 --> 3:00:42.280 they are from the religious settler class. They transformed from 3:00:42.280 --> 3:00:45.320 being a marginal group to an essential part within Israeli 3:00:45.440 --> 3:00:49.280 society and the Jewish body as a whole. And I 3:00:49.320 --> 3:00:50.720 mentioned this briefly. I don't know if it was this 3:00:50.760 --> 3:00:53.760 episode of going before, but former Prime Minister Benjamin and 3:00:53.840 --> 3:00:57.000 Yah who's twelve year rule bolstered the presence of this 3:00:57.120 --> 3:01:00.160 class into the mainstream, this very right wing mental be 3:01:00.920 --> 3:01:04.039 where their figureheads held top positions in state institutions and 3:01:04.040 --> 3:01:09.840 in various governments. Regardless the current Prime Minister Tally Bennett, 3:01:10.160 --> 3:01:12.560 he used to be the Minister of the Settlement Council, 3:01:12.879 --> 3:01:16.360 and that should speak volumes about the change and in 3:01:16.440 --> 3:01:20.760 the heart of Israeli society. This mentality is really encouraged. 3:01:20.920 --> 3:01:24.760 And Klanem went on to say the Israeli government is 3:01:24.760 --> 3:01:27.480 getting more religious and giving more powers to the ultra 3:01:27.640 --> 3:01:31.240 orthodox factions and to the ultra religious and ultra nationalists, 3:01:31.240 --> 3:01:34.520 the extreme settlers. It is a continuous shift for the 3:01:34.560 --> 3:01:37.600 whole society to be on the right of the political spectrum, 3:01:37.920 --> 3:01:42.520 the fanatical religious and the settler right. And before I 3:01:42.600 --> 3:01:45.280 continue you further, let's take a second break, because I 3:01:45.320 --> 3:01:47.959 can rage for a long time. I don't have a 3:01:47.959 --> 3:01:52.280 segue again, Robert, it's not this is the break, I know, 3:01:52.440 --> 3:01:54.400 but Sophie still has to believe it because you said it. 3:01:54.520 --> 3:01:59.640 So my goal has been a conflience. We did it 3:01:59.680 --> 3:02:03.040 to get or we did it. Okay, we're back. Wow, 3:02:03.720 --> 3:02:06.640 that wasn't that a fun ad? Okay, let's go back 3:02:06.680 --> 3:02:10.720 to we were talking about right extremism being like bolstered 3:02:10.720 --> 3:02:14.640 in Israeli society. Ole Renoi is an Israeli political activist 3:02:14.680 --> 3:02:18.199 and journalist, and they agreed and described this annual event 3:02:18.360 --> 3:02:22.320 as a congratuatory, mainstream is Israeli event, and she said 3:02:22.360 --> 3:02:25.120 the marchers are not the minority, not in numbers, not 3:02:25.160 --> 3:02:29.480 in ideology, and not in their political status. So regardless 3:02:29.520 --> 3:02:31.600 of what the Prime Minister says, it's not a fringe 3:02:31.640 --> 3:02:34.360 element at all. She goes on to say that maybe 3:02:34.440 --> 3:02:36.960 many Israelis do not like to see photos of an 3:02:36.959 --> 3:02:39.800 old Palestinian woman being beaten up by a kid, but 3:02:39.879 --> 3:02:43.240 the march itself is a huge Israeli celebration. It's not 3:02:43.360 --> 3:02:47.160 something on the political periphery anymore. I also want to 3:02:47.200 --> 3:02:49.800 quickly mention that as I was writing this, another Palestinian 3:02:49.840 --> 3:02:53.280 journalist was killed by the IDEA F last week. Thirty 3:02:53.280 --> 3:02:56.320 one year old lefran I made uh what Esna was 3:02:56.360 --> 3:02:59.959 shot in the chest. Um at the autub refugee camp 3:03:00.000 --> 3:03:03.080 and the occupied West Bank, Israel said that she tried 3:03:03.120 --> 3:03:07.080 to attack a soldier with a knife. In a statement, 3:03:07.120 --> 3:03:09.760 these really armies, said, an assailant armed with a knife 3:03:09.840 --> 3:03:12.480 advanced toward an I d F soldier who was conducting 3:03:12.560 --> 3:03:16.840 routine security activity. However, witnesses told Al Jazira that in 3:03:16.879 --> 3:03:20.080 their view, she posed little threat to the soldiers. She 3:03:20.120 --> 3:03:22.520 had just started a new job at a radio station 3:03:22.680 --> 3:03:25.840 three days prior to being killed. She was leaving her 3:03:25.840 --> 3:03:28.760 home on the way to work, according to eyewitnesses, and 3:03:28.920 --> 3:03:31.520 doctors at the hospital said the bullet she was shot 3:03:31.600 --> 3:03:37.280 with pierced her heart. Um and local and international rights 3:03:37.280 --> 3:03:41.039 groups have condemned what they call Israel's excessive use of 3:03:41.120 --> 3:03:44.920 force and their shoot to kill policy against Palestinians, including 3:03:45.640 --> 3:03:50.320 suspected assailants and the occupied West Bank and got the strip. Um. 3:03:51.120 --> 3:03:55.320 Senior Israeli politicians, including Prime Minister Bennett, have encouraged the 3:03:55.400 --> 3:03:58.279 use of legal force and given orders to shoot Palestinians 3:03:58.280 --> 3:04:01.120 who did not post an eminent threat. These other orders 3:04:01.160 --> 3:04:04.560 to shoot Palestinians even if they don't pose a eminent threat. 3:04:05.760 --> 3:04:08.080 The United Nations Office of the High Commissioner for Human 3:04:08.120 --> 3:04:11.320 Rights noted that in the reports, Israeli forces quote often 3:04:11.400 --> 3:04:15.120 use firearms against Palestinians on mere suspicion or as a 3:04:15.120 --> 3:04:23.320 precautionary measure in violation of international standards. Um. And yeah, surprise, surprise. 3:04:23.400 --> 3:04:26.879 Her funeral was also attacked by these really occupation, just 3:04:26.959 --> 3:04:32.400 like Sharnes was. Um. They beat the mourners and uh, 3:04:32.600 --> 3:04:36.680 nothing nothing changed in the the several days that followed 3:04:36.680 --> 3:04:39.440 that funeral. It happened again because they knew they could 3:04:39.720 --> 3:04:44.560 happen again. There was no punishment for the first round. Um. 3:04:44.640 --> 3:04:50.199 And that's all I got for today. Um, I do, 3:04:51.200 --> 3:04:54.400 I mean, there's so much more to talk about, but 3:04:55.000 --> 3:04:57.800 just they'll take a lifetime and maybe I'll chip out 3:04:57.840 --> 3:05:00.800 it away over time. I do want to plug a 3:05:00.959 --> 3:05:04.040 film that I really love called Gaza Fights for Freedom. 3:05:04.120 --> 3:05:06.880 It's a twenty nineteen documentary. It's on YouTube for free, 3:05:07.720 --> 3:05:12.680 and it's by Abby Martin and it's filmed by Caraman 3:05:12.800 --> 3:05:16.039 on the ground and Gaza, and it really shows the 3:05:16.120 --> 3:05:19.120 imbalance that takes place, especially in that region. I know 3:05:19.160 --> 3:05:21.240 we didn't cover Gaza that much in this episode, but 3:05:22.200 --> 3:05:24.959 just like Shrine's death, that reflects the larger issue and 3:05:25.600 --> 3:05:30.320 the just blatant genocide and ethic cleansing that's happening. So 3:05:30.360 --> 3:05:33.080 I would really recommend that if you want to learn more. Again, 3:05:33.240 --> 3:05:36.040 just like our boys the mini series, it's really hard 3:05:36.080 --> 3:05:41.880 to watch um, at least for me, UM and another. 3:05:41.959 --> 3:05:44.760 I mean, the reason I mentioned I wanted to describe 3:05:44.800 --> 3:05:47.280 the video Shreen's death earlier is because I haven't seen 3:05:47.320 --> 3:05:48.640 it and I don't want to see it. Like I 3:05:49.959 --> 3:05:52.000 it really triggers me when I see like a photo 3:05:52.360 --> 3:05:56.200 of and I mean anybody like I don't want to 3:05:56.240 --> 3:05:59.320 sensationalize their death. UM, but I do want you guys 3:05:59.360 --> 3:06:03.920 to know about it and to understand that it's important. UM. 3:06:03.959 --> 3:06:08.440 That's my shoe. I have. I have seen it, and 3:06:08.720 --> 3:06:10.520 just as a general rule of someone who's worked in 3:06:10.520 --> 3:06:15.280 those conditions, she's very obviously not in a situation which 3:06:15.280 --> 3:06:16.879 it makes sense that she would have gotten on a 3:06:16.879 --> 3:06:20.599 cross fire between a gunfight like obviously this has been documented, 3:06:20.640 --> 3:06:23.680 but it was pretty obvious from the beginning that this 3:06:23.760 --> 3:06:25.760 was not like two sides shooting at each other and 3:06:25.800 --> 3:06:31.520 someone getting caught up in the middle. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 3:06:31.680 --> 3:06:33.960 it's depressing. I guess I didn't end this one with 3:06:34.000 --> 3:06:39.039 any kind of uplifting anything, But I just encourage everyone 3:06:39.400 --> 3:06:43.360 who's interested or who doesn't know uh and who wants 3:06:43.400 --> 3:06:47.800 to know more to just get your information from Palestinians. 3:06:48.080 --> 3:06:52.720 Um spread awareness of social media because Palestinian voices are 3:06:52.800 --> 3:06:57.560 usually silenced, and it really makes a difference when people 3:06:57.600 --> 3:07:00.160 speak up, because that's the only way things change, just 3:07:00.200 --> 3:07:02.520 the only way articles change their headlines. That's the only 3:07:02.520 --> 3:07:08.040 way anything even pivots in the right direction. But this 3:07:08.080 --> 3:07:13.480 is the end. Should I say goodbye now? Goodbye? Now? Okay, 3:07:13.680 --> 3:07:17.000 thank you, but no, I appreciate the listeners of today 3:07:17.040 --> 3:07:20.680 and yesterday's episodes. It means a lot to me. You know, 3:07:20.640 --> 3:07:25.440 I'll see you when I see you. Bye bye. Bye, 3:07:25.440 --> 3:07:32.039 now Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every 3:07:32.040 --> 3:07:34.280 week from now until the heat death of the universe. 3:07:34.879 --> 3:07:37.240 It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 3:07:37.440 --> 3:07:40.119 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 3:07:40.160 --> 3:07:42.280 cool zone media dot com, or check us out on 3:07:42.320 --> 3:07:44.840 the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 3:07:44.920 --> 3:07:47.400 listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could 3:07:47.400 --> 3:07:50.400 Happen Here, updated monthly at cool zone media dot com 3:07:50.440 --> 3:07:52.359 slash sources. Thanks for listening.