1
00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:07,280
Speaker 1: Alone media, Welcome back to it could Happen here?

2
00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:11,440
Speaker 2: A podcast normally about it happening here, being you know,

3
00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:14,200
Speaker 2: the real world where you live. But for the next

4
00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:16,799
Speaker 2: two weeks after this, and for the week before us,

5
00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:19,680
Speaker 2: and for this week, we're talking about it happening in

6
00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:23,200
Speaker 2: a galaxy far far away. That's right. This is the

7
00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:27,640
Speaker 2: second in our four part series reviewing and discussing and

8
00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:31,240
Speaker 2: Or Season two, which, due to a series of incredibly

9
00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,560
Speaker 2: unlikely events, has become the most radical media to reach

10
00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:37,360
Speaker 2: a wide audience in the United States and quite some time.

11
00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:40,239
Speaker 2: I am here with Mio Wong and Garrison Davis. How

12
00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:41,200
Speaker 2: are we all doing today?

13
00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:45,040
Speaker 3: Hanging in there, hanging in there as we always are.

14
00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:50,480
Speaker 2: Yeah. I just watched episodes seven through nine last night,

15
00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:52,440
Speaker 2: which is really helping with the hanging in there.

16
00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:54,520
Speaker 4: I have not seen that shit yet, so yeah, that's

17
00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:55,880
Speaker 4: for next week, though we have to say that for

18
00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:56,200
Speaker 4: next week.

19
00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:58,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we're not talking about them now, but we

20
00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:00,320
Speaker 2: watched them this week and I'm happy.

21
00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:04,080
Speaker 4: I did watch them, and oh boy, but we still

22
00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:06,480
Speaker 4: have a lot to talk about for episodes four to six.

23
00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:09,160
Speaker 4: It does kind of set up what we see later on,

24
00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:11,039
Speaker 4: but I think there's a lot of interesting stuff there

25
00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:14,080
Speaker 4: with like building an underground resistance, a lot of spies

26
00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:17,720
Speaker 4: an espionage mixed in with like the personal cost of

27
00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:21,480
Speaker 4: rebellion and how it affects like your personal life, your relationships.

28
00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:24,040
Speaker 4: So there is a lot to discuss here. But oh boy,

29
00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:25,480
Speaker 4: I am excited for next week.

30
00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,679
Speaker 2: Yes, I am very excited for next week. I'm very

31
00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,840
Speaker 2: excited for this week, which we should talk about so

32
00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:36,040
Speaker 2: kind of there's a few themes running through these three episodes.

33
00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,160
Speaker 2: One of them is, yeah, the cost in terms of

34
00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:44,000
Speaker 2: your personal life on being part of a rebellion, And yeah,

35
00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:47,880
Speaker 2: I'm interested kind of what are some of the I mean,

36
00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:50,800
Speaker 2: there's one real standout moment in these episodes that I

37
00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:52,240
Speaker 2: know we're all going to want to talk about, which

38
00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:55,920
Speaker 2: is a speech given by Saul Gerrera saw Yeah, played

39
00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:59,200
Speaker 2: by Forrest Whitaker, just amazingly.

40
00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:01,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, the speech, Yeah, the nitrous We'll get to it.

41
00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:03,840
Speaker 2: We'll get to that. But yeah, we should start with

42
00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:05,120
Speaker 2: the first of these episodes.

43
00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, episode four. Ever been to Gorman? I guess once again,

44
00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:12,359
Speaker 4: if you do not want to be giving Disney Plus

45
00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:16,320
Speaker 4: your money, you can be like Hondo a Naka and

46
00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:18,119
Speaker 4: acquire the show that way.

47
00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:21,360
Speaker 3: Remember the torret combinations. Remember the variation's got to keep

48
00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:21,640
Speaker 3: the ball.

49
00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:21,960
Speaker 2: In your head?

50
00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:26,640
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, all nine or eight variations. Let's do a

51
00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:29,160
Speaker 4: quick recap of this episode, then we'll talk about some

52
00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:32,280
Speaker 4: of these aspects. So one year later from the previous episodes,

53
00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:34,600
Speaker 4: Cassiine and Bix are on the planet Coroissant, staying at

54
00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:38,040
Speaker 4: a safe house in between running missions for Luthan. Bix

55
00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:41,919
Speaker 4: is severely struggling with PTSD, while Cassian is stressed about

56
00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:45,959
Speaker 4: having to avoid surveillance while hiding in the capital city.

57
00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:48,639
Speaker 2: And Bix is also we find out abusing space stantics.

58
00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:51,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, later on we can we can see that she's

59
00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:54,600
Speaker 4: she's using using space drugs to help her cope with

60
00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:57,600
Speaker 4: the massive amounts of trauma that she's been forced to

61
00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:01,280
Speaker 4: deal with the past few years. Now, our favorite weasel,

62
00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,440
Speaker 4: Cyril Karn, has been transferred to the planet Gormant, where

63
00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:07,560
Speaker 4: he's running the local Bureau of Standards in the capital

64
00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:11,880
Speaker 4: city of Palmo. He refutes Imperial propaganda about Gorman while

65
00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:15,000
Speaker 4: on a FaceTime call with his Fox News addicted.

66
00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:18,320
Speaker 2: Most talking about like, yeah, the Imperial the Imperial News

67
00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,839
Speaker 2: says the Gormans are super arrogant, just real assholes.

68
00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:27,400
Speaker 4: You gotta stop watching Imperial news Man. But this may

69
00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:30,880
Speaker 4: be a ploy from Cyril, because Cyril knows he's being

70
00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:34,200
Speaker 4: monitored and surveilled by members of the Gorman Front, a

71
00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:38,360
Speaker 4: small underground resistance group, while working as a double agent

72
00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,800
Speaker 4: for his ISB girlfriend Dedra. Sirtle gets invited to a

73
00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:43,800
Speaker 4: town hall meeting where he's introduced to the leader of

74
00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:47,040
Speaker 4: the Gorman Front, a local businessman and city councilor, and

75
00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:49,520
Speaker 4: then Cyril is recruited into the resistance.

76
00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:52,360
Speaker 2: Yeah. I want to say a little about the Gorman

77
00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:55,600
Speaker 2: Front because they're very clearly French resistance in World War II.

78
00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:59,360
Speaker 2: Coded they developed a whole like language for them to speak,

79
00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:01,000
Speaker 2: which is basically like French.

80
00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,120
Speaker 4: With French phonics, but different words.

81
00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:04,840
Speaker 2: But different words, and so it sounds a little bit

82
00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,600
Speaker 2: like French and German, like got mashed together. People who

83
00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:09,760
Speaker 2: speak both have told me, I don't know, I'm not

84
00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:13,160
Speaker 2: a not a language guy, but it sounds distinctive and

85
00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,280
Speaker 2: they're very clearly like Again, their whole the whole industry

86
00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:18,640
Speaker 2: of this planet is high quality textiles that come from

87
00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:22,520
Speaker 2: like spider silk, but also clearly the the the guy

88
00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:25,720
Speaker 2: who's leading the resistance. His business is kind of meant

89
00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:29,200
Speaker 2: to evoke sort of like a classic like French vineyard. Like,

90
00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:31,800
Speaker 2: so he's like he's not a poor man, right, Like.

91
00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:35,320
Speaker 4: No, He's like he's like wealthy, he's like well off. Yes, yes,

92
00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:37,719
Speaker 4: I mean that's a big part about like Gorman is

93
00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:39,560
Speaker 4: this is like a you know, middle upper class like

94
00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:40,520
Speaker 4: status planet.

95
00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:41,000
Speaker 5: Yeah.

96
00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:42,640
Speaker 4: This is like a big part of like Luten's interest

97
00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:44,599
Speaker 4: in the planet is if he can bring a planet

98
00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,000
Speaker 4: with that status into the rebellion, that could have a

99
00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:48,800
Speaker 4: whole bunch of advantages. And that's kind of why he's

100
00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:51,240
Speaker 4: at least like looking into them as an option and

101
00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:54,760
Speaker 4: eventually kind of setting them up for like an accelerationist push.

102
00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:57,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I actually think it's a slightly different even

103
00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:58,920
Speaker 2: than that. But we'll talk about that and up when

104
00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:00,320
Speaker 2: we get to episode nine. Yeah.

105
00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:03,080
Speaker 4: Sure, there's an Iceby board meeting where they discuss a

106
00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:05,960
Speaker 4: batch of new raids and arrests on rebel activity and

107
00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:08,440
Speaker 4: how to deal with this influx of arrests that's making

108
00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:12,400
Speaker 4: it hard to process and obtain useful information. Luthn's Iceby

109
00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:16,239
Speaker 4: spy informs them of the Empire's increased interest in Gorman

110
00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:19,279
Speaker 4: and that the ice be is running covert operations on

111
00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:24,240
Speaker 4: the planet. Meanwhile, Senator Manmathma unsuccessfully lobbies against the Emperor's

112
00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:29,080
Speaker 4: resentencing directive, and at Sagereri's hidot Willem teaches Saws partisans

113
00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:31,839
Speaker 4: how to safety deploy a fuel pipeline of verter.

114
00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:34,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and specifically, Saw puts him with one of his

115
00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:37,360
Speaker 2: guys who's kind of coded as being like a close

116
00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:39,760
Speaker 2: to Saul, Like this is somebody that he really trusts,

117
00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:43,520
Speaker 2: and it's kind of implied fairly soon that like Saw

118
00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:47,280
Speaker 2: doesn't want this guy going back to Luthen with information, right.

119
00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:48,200
Speaker 4: He wants to keep Willim.

120
00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:51,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's just like kidnap this guy. It's like, well,

121
00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,160
Speaker 2: he wants to kill him at first. That's the statement

122
00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,120
Speaker 2: he makes to his guy, is like, once you have

123
00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:00,200
Speaker 2: these variations down, we're going to ice him.

124
00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:02,920
Speaker 4: Saw doesn't really trust Luthen very much anymore. He never

125
00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:06,120
Speaker 4: did Luth and slowly losing a lot of the trust

126
00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:07,839
Speaker 4: that he's built up throughout the galaxy.

127
00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,320
Speaker 2: Yeah. But like one of the things that's interesting here

128
00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:12,800
Speaker 2: is that like we kind of see saws paranoia where

129
00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:14,840
Speaker 2: there's a bunch of variations you need to know to

130
00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,279
Speaker 2: get fuel out of any number of different things, and

131
00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:19,800
Speaker 2: the guys like I have to memorize too many if

132
00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:23,080
Speaker 2: you just let us know which one we're trying to

133
00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,559
Speaker 2: go after, but that would make it clear which fuel

134
00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:27,880
Speaker 2: station they're going after, So Saw doesn't want to say

135
00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:28,839
Speaker 2: shit initially.

136
00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,520
Speaker 4: So this episode we're introduced to the planet Gorman. Like

137
00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:37,080
Speaker 4: in person, it's basically like northern Italy mixed with French culture. Yeah,

138
00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,840
Speaker 4: the massive set they built is just gorgeous, huge town

139
00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:42,680
Speaker 4: square for the capital city of Palmo.

140
00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:44,640
Speaker 2: The amount of money they spent on this show.

141
00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,000
Speaker 3: The protesters I think is really interesting because it's.

142
00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,520
Speaker 4: Like protesters at like the monument of the Tarkan massacre.

143
00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:53,760
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, they're kind of fascinating because like the way

144
00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,840
Speaker 3: that their banners are designed really really remind me of

145
00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,120
Speaker 3: like pictures you see from like nineteen seventeen. Is it's

146
00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:02,839
Speaker 3: like very very similar to that. And also they have

147
00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:05,200
Speaker 3: a thing that's a very common protest thing where it's

148
00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:06,839
Speaker 3: like there's as you know, there's protests going on, so

149
00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:08,840
Speaker 3: there's like just like ten guys in the square all

150
00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:13,280
Speaker 3: the time, yes, kind of like chantons, Yeah, always making noise.

151
00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:15,720
Speaker 2: They're kind of keeping a vigil because basically what happened.

152
00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,080
Speaker 2: And this is another interesting Tony Gurroy is kind of

153
00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:23,280
Speaker 2: famously not a Star Wars fan like prior to working

154
00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:24,680
Speaker 2: on this, and so there was a lot of like

155
00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:27,640
Speaker 2: anxiety from big Star Wars nerds that like, oh, this

156
00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:30,040
Speaker 2: isn't going to feel like Star Wars, but it clearly

157
00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,840
Speaker 2: has a lot of folks who understand, not just like

158
00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:35,640
Speaker 2: the stuff that's come out, you know, since Disney started,

159
00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:38,560
Speaker 2: in the different books and comics, but like the legend

160
00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:42,240
Speaker 2: stuff because in legends, like a major spark of the

161
00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:45,880
Speaker 2: whole rebellion was the Gorman massacre, which is in tarkan Lands,

162
00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:48,480
Speaker 2: and Tarkan's the old guy in the Death Star in

163
00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:50,800
Speaker 2: a New Hope, right, Like, he's the guy who's Darth

164
00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:54,160
Speaker 2: Vader's boss in the first movie, and he lands a

165
00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,320
Speaker 2: craft on a crowd at Gorman, and that's supposed to

166
00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:58,480
Speaker 2: have been one of the major sparks. And they've retconned

167
00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:01,520
Speaker 2: it a little but to the point where that still happened,

168
00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:04,200
Speaker 2: but it's clearly the setup for a larger massacre that

169
00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:05,920
Speaker 2: this season is building towards.

170
00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:10,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, Man, Spacebox News very good. We see the Ministry

171
00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:14,160
Speaker 4: of Enlightenment's efforts to weaponize public opinion, and how much

172
00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:18,080
Speaker 4: it's working on someone on someone like Cyril's mother, who

173
00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:20,920
Speaker 4: who then becomes convinced that like that the propaganda that

174
00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:23,240
Speaker 4: she's being fed is stuff that she like already believed

175
00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:26,600
Speaker 4: absolutely right, is stuff that she she's like red conned

176
00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:28,840
Speaker 4: into her own memory of being like no, like I've

177
00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:32,320
Speaker 4: I've always never trusted the Gore. Yeah. Meanwhile, she's like

178
00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:34,679
Speaker 4: sitting in front of her like TV like twenty four

179
00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:38,920
Speaker 4: to seven, watching this like garbage get beamed into her brain.

180
00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:41,600
Speaker 2: And I'm wondering, did y'all wonder for a second if

181
00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:45,319
Speaker 2: Cyril was legitimately getting pilled by totally the GORMANSI yeah,

182
00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:47,760
Speaker 2: because it's good. Right, there's like that moment where like, well,

183
00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:49,720
Speaker 2: fuck is he is our boy like starting to have

184
00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:51,800
Speaker 2: a break already, and then he realized like.

185
00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,120
Speaker 3: No, that's what we're getting.

186
00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:55,880
Speaker 4: Like that's kind of what's being set up, is like

187
00:08:56,160 --> 00:09:00,840
Speaker 4: like will will this experience for Cyril change him as

188
00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:02,560
Speaker 4: a person? And like, I think, yeah, the audience is

189
00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:05,360
Speaker 4: meant to not fully know, and I think I think

190
00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:09,400
Speaker 4: it's it's definitely like possible. But but Cyril might be

191
00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:11,160
Speaker 4: more of a hard ass than what some people give

192
00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:13,840
Speaker 4: him credit for. Yeah, because he is. He's very excited

193
00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,920
Speaker 4: to get invited to this meeting. He purchases a spider

194
00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:19,680
Speaker 4: from one of like the Gorman Front like recruiters that

195
00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:21,679
Speaker 4: has information on how to how to go to this

196
00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:24,320
Speaker 4: like public town hall, where he talks about, hey, you

197
00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:27,400
Speaker 4: know if maybe maybe we can start working together, maybe

198
00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:30,480
Speaker 4: we can start feeding information. One point, hilariously, he gets

199
00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:32,840
Speaker 4: he gets accused of being an Imperial spy in like

200
00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:36,440
Speaker 4: a joking manner, yeah, and denies it. And then he

201
00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:38,840
Speaker 4: gets on the phone with his IP girlfriend and he's like.

202
00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:40,800
Speaker 3: I'm in also, this is this is this is one

203
00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:42,760
Speaker 3: of the first time we see is the Gorman Front people.

204
00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:45,760
Speaker 3: These people have no idea what the fuck they're doing.

205
00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:49,199
Speaker 3: They are amateurs there they are like yeah, like their

206
00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:53,440
Speaker 3: operational security is unbelievably dog shit. They like wiretaffed one

207
00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:55,600
Speaker 3: guy and were like, hey, let me introduce you to

208
00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:58,920
Speaker 3: the leader of our organization. We have met you one time.

209
00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:01,800
Speaker 3: We have listened to one phone call. You're in now.

210
00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:05,520
Speaker 2: I just I think they probably listen to more than

211
00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:09,840
Speaker 2: but it's yeah, they've definitely been watching hi him much.

212
00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:11,559
Speaker 3: They just were kind of like, hey, you're going to

213
00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:13,760
Speaker 3: meet their leader now at the first meeting you've shown

214
00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:15,240
Speaker 3: up to he.

215
00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:17,400
Speaker 4: Met Like the public facing aspect of it, Yeah, I

216
00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:18,240
Speaker 4: guess yeah.

217
00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:21,960
Speaker 2: You can see the gorman like they have some degree

218
00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:25,600
Speaker 2: of sophistication and that they're tapping like him and they've

219
00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:28,120
Speaker 2: been listening probably for quite a while and they sweep

220
00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:30,760
Speaker 2: their shit every day for bugs, so you understand that,

221
00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:32,920
Speaker 2: Like they have an idea of what they need to

222
00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:34,560
Speaker 2: be doing. But when it comes to all of the

223
00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:38,160
Speaker 2: in person stuff, that's where they're incompetent right where they

224
00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:42,160
Speaker 2: they don't have the actual operational experience to know when

225
00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:45,960
Speaker 2: someone feels off right, Like that's the stuff that they're missing,

226
00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:48,720
Speaker 2: Like man to man on the ground is where the

227
00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:50,760
Speaker 2: problems come in. Like you can tell they're thinking this

228
00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:54,400
Speaker 2: stuff through, but they just don't know what they're doing enough.

229
00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:55,920
Speaker 3: This is this is the thing you I mean, this

230
00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:57,679
Speaker 3: is the thing you genuine wine you run into, like

231
00:10:57,720 --> 00:10:59,440
Speaker 3: in the field a lot where there's people who like

232
00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:02,680
Speaker 3: have read a lot of self bought operational security but

233
00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:05,160
Speaker 3: haven't done anything and so they don't under and there's

234
00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:06,600
Speaker 3: there's varying levels of this right, but you get this

235
00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:10,040
Speaker 3: to do people where it's like they don't know what

236
00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:13,080
Speaker 3: the important things are. So they do some of the

237
00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:16,360
Speaker 3: stuff right that they've read, but they don't understand how

238
00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:20,199
Speaker 3: to put all of it together to like do something securely.

239
00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:22,200
Speaker 3: And so you'll get these things where like some of

240
00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:24,800
Speaker 3: their stuff is like unbelievably secure to a point where

241
00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:26,040
Speaker 3: it's useless, and then some.

242
00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:27,320
Speaker 4: Of it is like very open.

243
00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:30,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're just like, hey have I don't know. Yeah,

244
00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,840
Speaker 3: they'll just bring people into stuff that instantly compromises everything

245
00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:36,800
Speaker 3: that they're doing because they haven't like bought it through. Yeah.

246
00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:38,920
Speaker 4: I mean, and this is something that that Cassian talks

247
00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:41,520
Speaker 4: about in the next episode, which we will get to shortly.

248
00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:43,920
Speaker 4: I mean, so much of these episodes is built around

249
00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:47,560
Speaker 4: like paranoia and like surveillance. We like Cassie's talking about

250
00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:49,600
Speaker 4: not wanting to go like on a walk in the

251
00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,800
Speaker 4: park because the Empire just put up cameras. He's nervous

252
00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:55,439
Speaker 4: about like where they go grocery shopping. Like he's trying

253
00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:58,320
Speaker 4: to like do everything right, but it's like hurting his

254
00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:01,400
Speaker 4: relationship with Bicks, and it's making their life like very

255
00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:04,920
Speaker 4: very challenging. En core assant as they're like stationed there

256
00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:07,679
Speaker 4: in between missions. Like meanwhile, like Luthan's just trying to

257
00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:10,719
Speaker 4: gain as much information on Gorman as possible. He has

258
00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:13,080
Speaker 4: a line that I like, a smear campaign is an

259
00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:16,480
Speaker 4: opening move, not an endgame. I need the end game. Yeah,

260
00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:19,480
Speaker 4: talking about like the limits of you know, the Empire's

261
00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:23,880
Speaker 4: Fox News style propaganda is only is only like a

262
00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:27,720
Speaker 4: starting position, like this is obviously leading somewhere, and I

263
00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:29,439
Speaker 4: need to know where that is. And he's going to

264
00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,240
Speaker 4: obtain that information slowly over the course of the next few episodes.

265
00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:34,199
Speaker 4: And then I think the other thing I want to

266
00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:36,800
Speaker 4: talk about before we go on break is Mon Mathma's

267
00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:43,360
Speaker 4: lobbying against like the prison sentencing guidelines. She says, quote

268
00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:47,640
Speaker 4: sector boundaries, civil liberties, personal freedom, respect for local traditions.

269
00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:49,880
Speaker 4: You've been voting with me on these issues for years.

270
00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:53,360
Speaker 4: And the Gorman senator replies, this is security. Mon, You're

271
00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:57,720
Speaker 4: confusing criminality and politics here. Mon says, really, are we

272
00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:00,760
Speaker 4: finding criminals or are we making them? Yeah, this is

273
00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:04,000
Speaker 4: where you see senators parroting like fake crime stats about

274
00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:06,280
Speaker 4: how there's been like you know, this increased wave of surgery.

275
00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:08,080
Speaker 2: But that's not true.

276
00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:11,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, because just because they're arresting more people, that makes

277
00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:13,800
Speaker 4: there be more crime. And like you see this in

278
00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:17,080
Speaker 4: season one where Cassiean's arrested at the Beach planet for

279
00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:20,400
Speaker 4: like no reason and then sentenced to the Forever prison. Yeah, like, yeah,

280
00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:22,559
Speaker 4: they are arresting more people. So if you just look

281
00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:25,720
Speaker 4: at those stats by itself without any context on like

282
00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:28,400
Speaker 4: how how other policing is working, then yeah, I can

283
00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:30,000
Speaker 4: look a certain way. And this is what Mon's trying

284
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,679
Speaker 4: to push back on, and and the other senators are

285
00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,960
Speaker 4: just too like bought into the empire or too scared,

286
00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:39,079
Speaker 4: like the Gorman senator believes that voting against the Emperor

287
00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:42,160
Speaker 4: at this point would further endanger his planet. Yeah, even

288
00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:44,160
Speaker 4: though this type of thing is actually going to end

289
00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,080
Speaker 4: up biting him in the ass in the next few years.

290
00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:50,079
Speaker 2: Yes, and yeah, he is like very much desperate to like, no, please,

291
00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:52,320
Speaker 2: we can we can calm this down if we just

292
00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:53,920
Speaker 2: don't piss the empire off enough.

293
00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:54,199
Speaker 1: No.

294
00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:57,199
Speaker 3: The thing I think is actually it's interesting about the

295
00:13:57,679 --> 00:13:59,839
Speaker 3: crime statistic stuff is that this is actually a more

296
00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:03,000
Speaker 3: sophisticated operation than what happened in real life. We're in

297
00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:05,200
Speaker 3: real life, all the actual crime statists were like crime

298
00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:07,199
Speaker 3: is falling, but everyone just kept saying there was more

299
00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:10,520
Speaker 3: crime totally. Yeah, this is like arrestly more people to

300
00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,760
Speaker 3: jack the crime rates. That He's a more sophisticated thing

301
00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,800
Speaker 3: than what we actually dealt with, which was the media just.

302
00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:20,680
Speaker 4: Live our own version of this are not outer space

303
00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,080
Speaker 4: version of like propaganda news. Media can just say something

304
00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:26,360
Speaker 4: and you don't even need this tats to back it up. Yeah,

305
00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:27,920
Speaker 4: let's go and break and we'll come back to talk

306
00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,920
Speaker 4: about episode five. I have friends everywhere.

307
00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,520
Speaker 5: Ah and we're back.

308
00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. So yeah, let's start with the summary of this episode.

309
00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:52,440
Speaker 4: All right, Luthen wants a first person assessment of the

310
00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:55,520
Speaker 4: Gorman front, but he's like too high profile to go himself,

311
00:14:55,560 --> 00:15:00,400
Speaker 4: so he sends Cassie and undercover as fashion designer variants Sky.

312
00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:04,200
Speaker 4: The ISB stage is a performative raid of Cyril Karan's

313
00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:07,680
Speaker 4: office to gain more cred with local rebels as Cyril

314
00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,120
Speaker 4: begins to feed them select information, and.

315
00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:12,120
Speaker 2: He does such a good job of seeming pissed at it.

316
00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:15,600
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, he loves he loves pretending to be pissed

317
00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:17,720
Speaker 4: at the ISB. He has so much fun kicking his

318
00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:22,800
Speaker 4: little trash can across the room. This is outrageous. Yeah,

319
00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:25,480
Speaker 4: very good stuff. And I do like, like, yeah, like

320
00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:28,800
Speaker 4: the weaponization of like state repression as a tactic to

321
00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:32,720
Speaker 4: actually increase state repression, like long term doing this like

322
00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:35,520
Speaker 4: performative show so that Cyril like builds trust and like

323
00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:40,120
Speaker 4: solidarity with the other rebels. Very good. Luthen visits Bicks

324
00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:42,440
Speaker 4: at the safehouse and grows concern for her well being

325
00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,120
Speaker 4: as she uses space drugs to cope with trauma.

326
00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:45,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

327
00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,200
Speaker 4: Cyril arrives back on Coruissant to report to ICE B Command,

328
00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,080
Speaker 4: has a one hour meeting with his girlfriend where they

329
00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:52,840
Speaker 4: turn off the lights.

330
00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, after arguing because she's had him followed.

331
00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:01,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's a little the pause that she's having him followed,

332
00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:03,560
Speaker 4: and then she orders into Toronto lights and then they

333
00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:05,280
Speaker 4: do something for an hour in their apartment.

334
00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:07,280
Speaker 2: God only knows.

335
00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:09,880
Speaker 3: I don't want to know. I don't want to know

336
00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:12,560
Speaker 3: what this fascist weirdness.

337
00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:15,680
Speaker 4: But at ICE the Command they plan how to like

338
00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:19,000
Speaker 4: carefully push the Gorman Front into taking action against the Empire.

339
00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:23,360
Speaker 4: Cassian makes contact on Gorman and is unimpressed with their

340
00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:28,040
Speaker 4: operational security and Warren's against trusting an imperial source, as

341
00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:30,320
Speaker 4: the ISB could be feeding false intel.

342
00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:33,000
Speaker 2: Some of the best moments in the episode so far

343
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,840
Speaker 2: because it's it's they don't know shit about Cassian, so

344
00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:39,520
Speaker 2: they don't know who they're talking to. And when he's like,

345
00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:42,560
Speaker 2: you guys, shouldn't do fuck right now because you don't

346
00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:44,920
Speaker 2: know shit about fuck, they're like, well, you're not a

347
00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:46,000
Speaker 2: real revolutionary.

348
00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:50,560
Speaker 4: You don't get it, And like, honestly, I understand what

349
00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,480
Speaker 4: what's being expressed there too, and like, well, we'll get

350
00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:55,480
Speaker 4: ahead in a sec Like the Gorman Front is adamant

351
00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:57,680
Speaker 4: that their source is vetted and reliable, even though they

352
00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:00,440
Speaker 4: haven't really been vetted. The plan is is that the

353
00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:04,280
Speaker 4: resistance seeks to expose the construction of an imperial military

354
00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:07,520
Speaker 4: based on Palmo, something that the Empire denies, though it

355
00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:10,320
Speaker 4: seems most of the citizens actually already take this to

356
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:13,320
Speaker 4: be true, so and Or questions the necessity of this

357
00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:17,560
Speaker 4: plan and relations sour with the group. Back on Coruscant,

358
00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,920
Speaker 4: Clea learns through radio chatter that one of Luthan's listening

359
00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:26,080
Speaker 4: devices may be discovered. During an artifact reappraisal, Saw kills

360
00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:29,800
Speaker 4: an imperial spy and his crew forcibly recruits Willem, and

361
00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:33,919
Speaker 4: while on mission installing a fuel diverter, Saw convinces Willem

362
00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:35,680
Speaker 4: to huff the fuel fumes.

363
00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:38,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll talk about that in a second.

364
00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:40,760
Speaker 4: I want to talk a little bit about like Cassian

365
00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:44,400
Speaker 4: on Gorman. Yes, And there's a lot of interesting stuff there,

366
00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,800
Speaker 4: and like specifically when the Gorman Front leader like calls

367
00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:50,320
Speaker 4: Cassian out for like not being a real revolutionary, which

368
00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:52,840
Speaker 4: I think is kind of true. Like Cassia at this

369
00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:55,800
Speaker 4: point is a thief and a soldier. He thinks about

370
00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:59,480
Speaker 4: things purely from that like operationally like like tactical point

371
00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:02,119
Speaker 4: of view. He doesn't have like a larger like politics.

372
00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,680
Speaker 4: He's like focused on right, like like Luthin is more

373
00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:08,199
Speaker 4: of like a revolutionary, a very like manipulative one, but

374
00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:10,640
Speaker 4: like he is focused on like this like larger political game.

375
00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:13,080
Speaker 4: And this is something that at this point Cassiean's not

376
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,560
Speaker 4: fully like interested in. He's more interested on like on

377
00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:17,680
Speaker 4: the ground like tactical preparedness.

378
00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:20,680
Speaker 2: He is interested in what he can do and get

379
00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:25,800
Speaker 2: away with right exactly as opposed to Luthan is interested

380
00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,320
Speaker 2: in what does more damage to the Empire. Now, what's

381
00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:31,200
Speaker 2: interesting to me is that the Gorman Front are actually

382
00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:34,359
Speaker 2: in the middle. They think totally that they are willing

383
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,679
Speaker 2: to do whatever, but they don't understand what that is.

384
00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:40,679
Speaker 2: And part of what you are seeing here is the

385
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:44,040
Speaker 2: Gorman Front are adamant, we are ready for war. We're

386
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:47,399
Speaker 2: already in a war. Yeah, and they're not technically wrong

387
00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:50,600
Speaker 2: about that because the Empire is planning to wipe them out. Right.

388
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,560
Speaker 2: We know the Empire does not plan for there to

389
00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:56,000
Speaker 2: be a Gorman in the future. So the stakes are

390
00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,520
Speaker 2: where they're saying they are. But even though they're saying that,

391
00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,119
Speaker 2: most of them don't truly believe or understand it. And

392
00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:06,040
Speaker 2: Cassian understands what war is, and what he is telling

393
00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:07,720
Speaker 2: them is that you are and he's right about this.

394
00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:11,080
Speaker 2: You are not ready for what you think you're ready

395
00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:14,440
Speaker 2: for totally because what you're going to do is die

396
00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:15,320
Speaker 2: all of you.

397
00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,199
Speaker 4: That's what makes all their interactions so interesting, because there

398
00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:22,000
Speaker 4: is that unspoken tention which slowly gets like aired, because

399
00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:24,560
Speaker 4: like they're really assessing different things, Like what Cassie's assessing

400
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,119
Speaker 4: is different from what Lusen wants assessed, and that's different

401
00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:29,399
Speaker 4: from what the Gorman Front actually want to do. Like

402
00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,480
Speaker 4: they're okay with a degree of casualties like being had

403
00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,439
Speaker 4: because they just want to like have control over their

404
00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,800
Speaker 4: planet again and put up any resistance even if it

405
00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:39,360
Speaker 4: ends up like leading to hardship.

406
00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:41,200
Speaker 3: But I think the other angle of that too, though,

407
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:45,240
Speaker 3: is it like they don't know what they're doing, right, No, likeha,

408
00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:49,280
Speaker 3: they like their plan. Their plan is not genuinely really bad, right.

409
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,240
Speaker 3: Like the plan is that they want to like steal

410
00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:55,320
Speaker 3: an imperial weapons shipment and then reveal that the Empire

411
00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:57,920
Speaker 3: shipping weapons in. But if you do that, then you've

412
00:19:57,960 --> 00:19:59,639
Speaker 3: just like and Andrew points it out, like, okay, so

413
00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:01,439
Speaker 3: if you if you do this, then you reveal that

414
00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:05,120
Speaker 3: you did you hijacked the shipment. So they're just going

415
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:05,920
Speaker 3: to like.

416
00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:08,879
Speaker 4: Raid you all, and they're okay with that, yeah, And

417
00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,040
Speaker 4: they're like okay with that visibility at this point.

418
00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:14,280
Speaker 2: And there's this this very standard. It's also this very

419
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:16,879
Speaker 2: common and this is part of what Casside recognizes, this

420
00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:20,080
Speaker 2: common myopic thing that you get with people who again

421
00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:24,200
Speaker 2: think they want a war that they don't truly understand

422
00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:27,840
Speaker 2: the meaning of, where they're like, we need, we need weapons,

423
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:29,919
Speaker 2: and when they think of weapons, they think of guns

424
00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:32,040
Speaker 2: that they can hold, and so that's what they're focused

425
00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:34,120
Speaker 2: on getting and that's what they think will let them

426
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:38,520
Speaker 2: fight the Empire. When Casside understands there's no fighting the

427
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,120
Speaker 2: Empire with what you can possibly get from a raid

428
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,600
Speaker 2: like this. All there is is suicide. And then there's

429
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,640
Speaker 2: the other level of what Luthan understands is so the fuck.

430
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:49,160
Speaker 4: Was sometimes that needs to happen.

431
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:52,359
Speaker 2: What matters is that these people die in public and

432
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:55,800
Speaker 2: it pisses people off. Yeah, right, And that's there's this

433
00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,480
Speaker 2: there's this escalation of like the Gormans think having guns

434
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:00,680
Speaker 2: means you and fight.

435
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,399
Speaker 4: Back, or like guns guns means that they'll be safer.

436
00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:07,399
Speaker 2: Right, and they're wrong. Cassie and thinks staying alive for

437
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:09,880
Speaker 2: a future moment means that you can fight back, and

438
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:14,000
Speaker 2: he is wrong. Luthan understands that the only ammunition that

439
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:17,080
Speaker 2: really counts in this war is human life and that sucks,

440
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:22,040
Speaker 2: and that sucks. That's why he's lost his mind and soul.

441
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:24,199
Speaker 4: Yes, and that's why people are starting to really like

442
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,920
Speaker 4: dislike working with him, because he's even though he might

443
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:30,159
Speaker 4: not be like completely wrong here, Yeah, I like so

444
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:32,640
Speaker 4: much of this episode is built around finding bugs. Yeah,

445
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,400
Speaker 4: the ISB looks for bugs, in Cyro's office. The Iceba's

446
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,199
Speaker 4: planting bugs in Zero's office. Bugs are hidden in the

447
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:42,480
Speaker 4: artifacts that Luthen's selling to high society. Everyone's listening, everyone's always,

448
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:44,200
Speaker 4: everyone's trying to collect more intel.

449
00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:47,720
Speaker 2: And there's this this this issue the Empire and Luthan's

450
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,160
Speaker 2: organization are of having with like we're getting too much,

451
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,800
Speaker 2: you know. The Empire's like we're arresting too many people,

452
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,840
Speaker 2: like yeah, number one, it's like cutting into our ability

453
00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,439
Speaker 2: to get into these organizations. And it also is just

454
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:02,080
Speaker 2: like we're drowning. And Lutan says the same thing. I'm

455
00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:04,760
Speaker 2: always spacing on her name, but she's wonderful to his

456
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,840
Speaker 2: his his consent, lady, like, we're drowning, we have too

457
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 2: much shit.

458
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:09,679
Speaker 3: Yeah.

459
00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,720
Speaker 4: Something I love is when when Cyril's talking with the

460
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:15,399
Speaker 4: Gorman Front about the ISB rate of his office, the

461
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,719
Speaker 4: Gorman Front remarks, quote, we think the ISB is running

462
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 4: a shadow government without the Emperor's yes.

463
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 2: Yes, And it's a real You hear this when you

464
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,520
Speaker 2: read about histories of like Tsarist Russia, like even a

465
00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:30,520
Speaker 2: lot of people who take part in the nineteen seventeen

466
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,919
Speaker 2: revolution right right up till it started, their attitude was like, oh,

467
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,080
Speaker 2: if the Czar knew what his advisors were doing in

468
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 2: his name, he'd exactly it'd be on our side. And

469
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 2: the same thing happened in the Third Reich. If only

470
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:41,920
Speaker 2: Hitler knew was a common phrase. We're like, well, Hitler,

471
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 2: who doesn't know the Gestapo's doing all these awful things?

472
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 4: Of course, And it's it's so sad because like this

473
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,360
Speaker 4: is this is their like local like resistance group who

474
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:53,679
Speaker 4: still has that level of delusion because they come from

475
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:55,879
Speaker 4: the high society, right, they come from this like diplomatic

476
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,600
Speaker 4: background where they can like solve solved through through like

477
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,639
Speaker 4: free trade. And they're like, sure, surely, surely the Emperor

478
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 4: doesn't actually know what's going on here. It must it

479
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:05,960
Speaker 4: must be like the CIA, it must be the FBI.

480
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:08,679
Speaker 4: It's like the is SB is running a shadow government.

481
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 4: They're the ones that are actually like ruining things. Yes,

482
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 4: And you're like, no, your enemy is the entire empire. Yes,

483
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 4: your enemy is the ISB, but it's also Cyril Karn

484
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:19,480
Speaker 4: and it's also Emperor Palpatine.

485
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 2: Yes. And I love That's part of what I love

486
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 2: about that that laddered interaction between them and Cassie and

487
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:29,800
Speaker 2: Cassie and Luthan is they're not really revolutionaries either. They

488
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 2: they are protesters right totally. They still think that the

489
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 2: overall Empire, once it realizes how bad things are, will

490
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,400
Speaker 2: be on their side, and Cassian thinks they can wait. Yeah,

491
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 2: it's it's Luthan who's like, no, no, no, there's one

492
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 2: way out, right, you know, back going back to season one,

493
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,359
Speaker 2: there's one way out.

494
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 4: Before we talk about the Sagerera stuff at the end,

495
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 4: I do want to point out how wonderful it was

496
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:57,160
Speaker 4: to see Cyril Karn in the ISB control room where

497
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 4: he remarks that this is the greatest day of his life.

498
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:05,879
Speaker 3: Oh god, it's like Libby finally getting to spy.

499
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 2: And part of Guys even makes that great that great

500
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 2: comment where he's directly talking about the Gorman Front and

501
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 2: he's like, yeah, there's a lot of people who think

502
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 2: they understand shit better than they do because they're new

503
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 2: to it. But he's also he's clearly talking to Cyril

504
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 2: like you don't know what you're doing, but I'll use you.

505
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 3: Fine. It's so good.

506
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 4: Cyril gains cred amongst the Gorman Front when they find

507
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:31,920
Speaker 4: out that his background is that he lost his job

508
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,320
Speaker 4: because the ISP found out how badly he fucked up

509
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 4: Ferricks Like They're like, ah, I see, Cyril must have

510
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 4: good reason to hate the Empire because of that. You're like, No,

511
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,919
Speaker 4: he's like fuckers, He's desperately trying to like become some

512
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 4: like ISP secret agent. Yeah, Like he just wants approval

513
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 4: from like the daddy state, like.

514
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,320
Speaker 2: And from his girlfriend right and has taken over for

515
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 2: his mom in being like the primary source the person

516
00:24:58,800 --> 00:24:59,880
Speaker 2: he's trying to impress.

517
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:01,639
Speaker 4: The last thing I want to talk about in this

518
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,159
Speaker 4: episode is this episode displays like two different types of

519
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,919
Speaker 4: drug use. Yes, we have Bix who's trying to get

520
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 4: over the immense amount of fucked up stuff that's happened

521
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 4: to her by taking space XENX if you will.

522
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 2: She's barred out every night holding a gun watching TV

523
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:22,919
Speaker 2: and yeah, and it's like who amongst us? It is

524
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 2: disrupting her personal life.

525
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,879
Speaker 4: It's also disrupting her like operational capacity.

526
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 2: She has been sent out in the recent past and

527
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 2: she can't be sent back out again. And the specific

528
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,399
Speaker 2: we don't even see the mission that most recently fucked

529
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 2: her up, but we're through her nightmares were lid to

530
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 2: in first she and Cassie and captured an Imperial pilot

531
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 2: and Cassian killed the guy because he'd seen her face,

532
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,399
Speaker 2: and she's, in addition to having been tortured in season one,

533
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:49,360
Speaker 2: fucked up because like we didn't need to kill him,

534
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 2: and Cassiean's like, yeah we did, Like he saw your face.

535
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 3: That's it.

536
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,679
Speaker 4: The weight of Resistance is really getting to Bix. Yeah,

537
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 4: and like Luthen comes over to like check on her

538
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:02,680
Speaker 4: and also like see if she's able to like work

539
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 4: and see if she can like appraise some like weapons

540
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 4: or something, and he realizes like she is not like

541
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 4: well enough to work at this point, yeah, and becomes

542
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 4: like getting worried for her and like like try to

543
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:16,199
Speaker 4: like plead with her, like you have to you have

544
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,439
Speaker 4: to make sure that you like stay healthy. I don't know,

545
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,880
Speaker 4: it's it's it's definitely it's it's definitely hard to watch.

546
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,239
Speaker 4: I think this is definitely like this moment. It's like,

547
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 4: I don't Bix has always had a lot of agency

548
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 4: taken away from her, Like we see this like in

549
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,239
Speaker 4: season one, and we see this kind of now and

550
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 4: I definitely would like to would like to see her

551
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 4: get put back in like the driver's seat of her

552
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 4: own life at a certain point. But like like like

553
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 4: living through like PTSD and living through like these types

554
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 4: of like you know, political movements does does like destroy

555
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 4: people and like this does happen.

556
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 2: Well, and just what torture does, right, Like, Yeah, torture

557
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:49,919
Speaker 2: breaks people, that's its purpose, you know.

558
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 4: So we have space n X and then we have Salgerera.

559
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, we fucking do.

560
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,160
Speaker 2: So let's I want to talk a little bit about

561
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,399
Speaker 2: his background, some stuff that's not in the show. And

562
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 2: the show you see him when when he is already

563
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,400
Speaker 2: basically the hardest son of a bitch in the rebellion. Right,

564
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:07,399
Speaker 2: he is the only leader of a rebel faction that

565
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,119
Speaker 2: Luthen treats as an equal right where like Luthan is

566
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 2: meeting with him, we see Luthan meeting with him directly.

567
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,680
Speaker 2: Luthen is not willing to sacrifice he and his men

568
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,879
Speaker 2: in like in order to maintain the cover of a spy,

569
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:19,360
Speaker 2: which he.

570
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 4: Is serious militants.

571
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, they are serious and there and every time we

572
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 2: see them, there's more of them and they have more ships.

573
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 2: They're the first ones, they're the first rebels.

574
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 3: To use X quest ones, X wings.

575
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Saws background and you have this is way

576
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 2: a bunch of the expanded stuff. But he's he started

577
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 2: out as essentially a local rebel on this planet during

578
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 2: the Clone Wars that was not aligned between either major faction,

579
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 2: but basically the Jedi, taking the role of Space Cia,

580
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:51,159
Speaker 2: armed him and his sister to lead like a rebel

581
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 2: group against the other power they were fighting in the Clone.

582
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 4: Wars occupation, like separatist forces.

583
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 2: He was meant to be Mujahideen coded right initially, right,

584
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 2: So he's like a space musja Hideen who's armed by

585
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,120
Speaker 2: the Space Cia, who are the Jedi y and then

586
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:08,400
Speaker 2: when the Republic ends, he immediately starts fighting the Empire.

587
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:11,400
Speaker 2: And one of the kind of like moments that Form

588
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 2: saw is his sister dies in the in the process

589
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 2: of this failed attempt to gain independence for their homeworld,

590
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 2: this place called Hoduron.

591
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 6: Right.

592
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,399
Speaker 2: You don't need to know any of that to perfectly

593
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 2: get and enjoy his character in these shows. But the

594
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,160
Speaker 2: moment that we're talked about to talk about means more

595
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 2: if you understand his backstory with his sister, right.

596
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, and he's been doing this ever since he was

597
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 4: like a kid, like.

598
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 2: Yes, and yet this has been his whole life, right,

599
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 2: I think he's supposed to be like forty six when

600
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 2: he dies in Rogue one.

601
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 4: Hard forty six.

602
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 2: If you look at him, you know, he looks clearly older,

603
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 2: but also he looks like, well, yeah, he's been fighting

604
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 2: his entire life. That age is a teenager and he

605
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 2: has this. So the first thing that he does is

606
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 2: he executes this guy who was set up as his friend.

607
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 2: When it becomes clear that that guy was a spy

608
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 2: and it's insinuated, he than it's a spy for the Empire.

609
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 2: That guy might have been a spy for Lutheren or

610
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 2: someone else. We don't actually know.

611
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 4: Sure, we know he was sending info to someone he

612
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 4: was transmitting. Yeah, saw things that they were going to

613
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 4: set up like an ambush at their next mission. Yeah,

614
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 4: And instead they evacuate their base.

615
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 2: And Saw blasts him and basically says, hey, to the kid,

616
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 2: your mind now, and we're going to go steal this

617
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 2: fucking fuel. Yeah. So the next time we see them,

618
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 2: they've they've busted onto this Imperial fuel lot and they're

619
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 2: fueling up their ships and while the kid is like

620
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 2: working out to set this thing up to allow them

621
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 2: to take the ribo, which is the rum Riydonium rhydo sorry,

622
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 2: the starship fuel. While the kid is like doing this

623
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 2: job that we've been told if you don't do it perfectly,

624
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 2: it kills you and everyone around. You saw his monologuing

625
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 2: and he's talking about his childhood where he was like,

626
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 2: I was a child slave, you know, forced to labor

627
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 2: in these rhido mines, right, and one day there was

628
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 2: a gas leak and all everyone ran and you know

629
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 2: this stuff, it was so bad out there. The old

630
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 2: people would die and you'd come back the next day

631
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 2: and the jungle was so thick they'd been eaten down

632
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 2: to bones and want everybody has to flee because of

633
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 2: this leak. But I don't run away because, like I'm

634
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 2: huffing this gas, I get high and I like realize

635
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 2: for the first time I'm alive, you know. He has

636
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 2: this like yeah, this moment. And then when the kid

637
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 2: figures out how to get the fuel hooked up, Saw

638
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 2: immediately leans in and starts huffing what is effectively gasoline

639
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 2: and going and the kid's like what the fuck. The

640
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 2: kid who's wearing gas mask, who's like wearing a gasp

641
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 2: is like, what are you doing, and he's like, she's

642
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 2: my sister, right, Oh, she's my sister and she loves me.

643
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 4: I want to read it here. I have this back

644
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 4: of the monologu quote. Yeah, you feel how badly she

645
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 4: wants to explode. Yeah, remember this moment. You think I'm crazy? Yes,

646
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 4: I am. Revolution is not for the saane. Look at us, unloved,

647
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 4: hunted cannon fodder. Will all be dead before the Republic

648
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 4: is back. And yet here we are. Where are you, boy?

649
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 3: You're here.

650
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 4: You're not with Luthin, You're here. You're right here, and

651
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 4: you're ready to fight. We're the rido kid, We're the fuel.

652
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 4: We're the thing that explodes when there's too much friction

653
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 4: in the air. Let it in, boy, that's freedom calling

654
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 4: Let it in, Let it run, let it run wild.

655
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 2: And he is just for one thing.

656
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 4: The kid is choking on the on the fumes, is.

657
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 2: Nearly dying from the gas fumes that clearly saw as

658
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 2: barely affected by anymore. Right, it's again this thing I

659
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 2: love that they do in terms of they're calling back

660
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 2: to the older lore when he calls this his sister. Yeah,

661
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 2: but you don't need to know that his sister died

662
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 2: to get this moment. It just makes it adds an

663
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 2: extra layer of meaning if you're a nerd for the lore,

664
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 2: which I appreciate a lot. And it also sets up

665
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 2: in Rogue one when we see Saw Near Death he's

666
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 2: huff he's on he's on the oxygen. He's well, I

667
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 2: think he's on O two because he's destroyed his lung suffing.

668
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 4: He's having this now, this is this is what he's

669
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 4: hughing that it has been like like like RETCONND.

670
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 2: Confirmed it wasn't oxygen.

671
00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 4: Okay, yes, bo the writer, yeah, old Tony Gilroy and said, hey,

672
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 4: what if we have him huff and fumes and they

673
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 4: went for it.

674
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 2: Well yeah, but I but I think that was to

675
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 2: try to explain because because Tony said he didn't know

676
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 2: why Saul was on oxygen when yeah put it in

677
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 2: Rogue one, and so they came to explain it. But

678
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 2: I think he's on oxygen because I.

679
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 4: Think it's been reckon to being that he's just huffing rising.

680
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 3: I don't know.

681
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 4: I saw it in an article. You yeah, so either way,

682
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 4: we'll see, we'll see. I could be wrong. I was

683
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 4: wrong last because of one thing. I miscredited the quote

684
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 4: about about the empire's grip tightening and systems falling through

685
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 4: because the theory twinks British actor has a has an

686
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 4: accent very similar to the one Carry Fisher poorly tries

687
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 4: to imitate in a New Hope where she says that

688
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 4: line so sorry, George, Sorry George, that was your line.

689
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 4: Good line. The theory twink just has some very similar ones.

690
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 4: So I got confused accountability.

691
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 2: Wow, mean to Carry Fisher Garrison.

692
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 4: Everyone knows her accent's been in that movie.

693
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:57,479
Speaker 3: We all know it.

694
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 2: I fucking of this speech by Oh.

695
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is the most Robert thing I've ever seen.

696
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's perfect. It's perfect. Everything about it makes me

697
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 2: so happy. Bo Willman continues to be like maybe the

698
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 2: best monologuest writing for TV right now. It's just such

699
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 2: a raw scene and it explains both like why Saw

700
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 2: is still around, because he's the most paranoid, crazy son

701
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 2: of a bitch there is and because he unlike everyone

702
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 2: else and unlike the Gorman's, unlike even Cassie, and he's

703
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 2: the only guy who understands what Luthan understands, which is

704
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 2: that like totally, we're not here to see the other

705
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 2: side of this now we're here to catch on fire,

706
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 2: you know, like that's the.

707
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 3: Whole thing, and hopefully that fire will grow.

708
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, and yeah, if that means we get burned up

709
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 4: in the process, that is that's how it be. Yeah,

710
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 4: if the fire will burn very brightly. Yes, all right,

711
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 4: let's go and break and then come back to discus

712
00:33:50,600 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 4: the final episode in this arc. Okay, we are back.

713
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 4: And Or Season two, episode six, What a festive evening.

714
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:10,640
Speaker 4: Luthen sends Mon Mathma's cousin Val to re establish relations

715
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 4: with the Gorman front after Cassian's icy reception. Cassian and

716
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 4: Bis reunite on Corrossant, but then Cassian shows up at

717
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 4: Luthen's shop to confront him about checking in on Bis

718
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 4: at the safe house while and Or was on mission.

719
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 4: In a possibly like OPSEC irresponsible huge.

720
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 2: OPSEC fuck huge ox Casian Andor's face is known.

721
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, not good. This is like the Cassian's emotions getting

722
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 4: the better of him here. Senator man Mathma and her

723
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 4: husband Paren attend a party of the Empire's elite, where

724
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 4: she debates Krenik on imperial cruelty and the mindset of

725
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 4: a rebel underdog. Meanwhile, Claya uses their undercover ice b

726
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,319
Speaker 4: agent to help remove a listening device hidden in the

727
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 4: Price collection of artifacts. Vell reunites with Sinta as they

728
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 4: helped to lead the Gorman Front's first attack, stealing imperial

729
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,240
Speaker 4: weapons on a cargo transport. At first, things go according

730
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 4: to plan. Cyril watches from a distance and reports to

731
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 4: Iceby headquarters.

732
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 2: We should note ahead of this that during the meeting

733
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 2: where they had about this, one point that they had

734
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 2: made is none of you have guns. None of you

735
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 2: carry guns on this Me and her are the only

736
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,320
Speaker 2: people with blasters. You don't need them, you're not competent

737
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:20,400
Speaker 2: to use them.

738
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:21,319
Speaker 3: Yeah.

739
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 4: So, near the end of this operation, a civilian confronts

740
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,760
Speaker 4: the rebels, but what they're doing and in the struggle,

741
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 4: Sinta is accidentally shot and killed by one of the

742
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 4: members of the Gorman Front, a guy named Sam with

743
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 4: two ms. I love Star Wars. This episode ends with

744
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 4: Bix and Cassian going on a mission to kill the

745
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 4: Imperial interrogation expert doctor Gorst, which they succeed and then

746
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,359
Speaker 4: walk away heroically from the explosion, similar to.

747
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:49,799
Speaker 2: Kill him by torturing him the way he tortured her.

748
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, and then then they love the building and they

749
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 4: play the music que from the very first arc, Yeah,

750
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 4: the very first season where Cassian is walking away with

751
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 4: that fast drum beat. So this episode has so much

752
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 4: about like like relationships complicating political activity.

753
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 3: Right.

754
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 4: We have we have and orn bicks. We have the

755
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:13,840
Speaker 4: lesbians of Valen Senta killed lesbian. They did kill your lesbian.

756
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,360
Speaker 4: We'll talk about that. Yeah, we'll talk about a second.

757
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 4: They also have They also have Cyril and Dedra. We

758
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 4: have like like a lot of a lot of like

759
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 4: how relationships and politics like function, how where there's friction,

760
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,439
Speaker 4: when things can go well, with things can go bad.

761
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,439
Speaker 4: Let's talk I guess a little bit of about this

762
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:38,760
Speaker 4: party where where where uh Luthen talks with Cretic very

763
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 4: very briefly and at the end, I mean this is

764
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 4: this is a very effective scene where they like build

765
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 4: tension with Clay trying to remove this bug while critics

766
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 4: like in the room seeing seeing these other artifacts and

767
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 4: it's like debating Mond. But when when Luthen and Claya

768
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 4: leave they jokingly remark, oh, good man, we should have

769
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 4: killed critic when we were up there, and they laugh

770
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 4: and you're like, yeah, you know, you guys should have that's.

771
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 2: You really should have killed critic.

772
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 4: You really should have killed critic. It would have bummed

773
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 4: things up. But then the Death Star may not have

774
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 4: been completed. Yeah, and this whole thing would have gone differently.

775
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 4: Although you know, you know, in a way, the death

776
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 4: sto Operation does lead to the Ball of the Empire

777
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 4: in like a paradox way.

778
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 3: To be fair, they don't know exists some.

779
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:28,839
Speaker 4: Business, but he's like he's like a super high up guy. Yes,

780
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 4: and man, yeah, that is tough. That's that's a tough scene.

781
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 2: It's a tough's Also what's interesting is that it's a

782
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 2: tough scene in light of the rest of the lore.

783
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:39,880
Speaker 2: It's a really nice because they've been fighting, bickering for

784
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 2: this whole cycle of episodes and like you're, yeah, things

785
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:44,279
Speaker 2: are breaking down, and this is a moment where like

786
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,319
Speaker 2: they get back on the same page and you're like.

787
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 3: Tension eases, Yeah, because part of it, because like part

788
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 3: of what's going on here is like Lousen is losing it, right,

789
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 3: and this is the thing because like he's he's struggling

790
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:56,839
Speaker 3: to the part and like, yeah, everyone's fucking seen this, Like, yeah,

791
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 3: your friend is jruggling fifteen products at once. They're losing

792
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 3: their goddamn minds and then like the girl in your

793
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:04,280
Speaker 3: group was on top of it has to just slap

794
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:05,680
Speaker 3: them and be like locked the fuck in.

795
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, Nola is a scary monster. She is on it.

796
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:13,279
Speaker 2: Well, it's made really clear in these cycles. She is

797
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:14,400
Speaker 2: not his subordinates.

798
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 3: Oh no.

799
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:19,359
Speaker 2: They are handling very different parts of the operation, but

800
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 2: she is not working under him. No, and she is

801
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 2: like the one who like is the reason any of

802
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 2: the shit works. Absolutely, And it's like that's the thing

803
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 2: you see very often. There's a line in the season

804
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 2: one where things are looking bad for them and he

805
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 2: specifically asks her is your go bag ready? And he

806
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 2: doesn't check his own, so he I think he understands

807
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 2: if one of us has to get out, it should

808
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 2: be you.

809
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 4: She has to survive, yeah, utally yeah, and I think

810
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 4: that is that is where things are going to are

811
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:45,280
Speaker 4: going to be moving.

812
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

813
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:45,879
Speaker 3: Yeah.

814
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 4: I mean when when Cassie's coming back from Gorman, like

815
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,880
Speaker 4: Luthen picks him up and they start like arguing over

816
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 4: like is the Gorman front like a real thing to

817
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 4: like spend effort and like time on Like they're kind

818
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:58,719
Speaker 4: of all like like green, they don't really have good

819
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 4: op sect they're not. They're just not like ready yet. Yeah,

820
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,760
Speaker 4: and and and Luthen pushes back and says to Cassie

821
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,400
Speaker 4: and like you're thinking small, you're thinking like a thief.

822
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 4: And cassiean robuts like, no, I'm thinking like a soldier.

823
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:14,360
Speaker 4: And you have to think like a leader. You have

824
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 4: to actually and like from Luten's point of view, a

825
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 4: leader is like a very like manipulative role and like

826
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 4: like you you have to start using these guys as

827
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 4: pawns for this like larger game, because the empire is

828
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 4: bigger than just Gorman. The Empire is bigger than us.

829
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 4: We have to think bigger. You can't just you can't

830
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 4: just think like a you know, a small illegalist who's

831
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 4: gonna steal your food and not pay for parking and

832
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,839
Speaker 4: and just like get by while still doing crying. But

833
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:41,400
Speaker 4: like you know, try to like outsmart the empires like no,

834
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 4: like we we are, we are, we are beyond that.

835
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 3: We ain't robbing banks anymore.

836
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly right, like we are beyond the illegalist like

837
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 4: point of view. We have to start thinking like much more,

838
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,360
Speaker 4: much more like strategically and with like the bigger picture

839
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,280
Speaker 4: in mind, because like we are we are slowly getting

840
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:00,320
Speaker 4: closer to the Battle of Yavn here, Yeah, and I

841
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 4: find I find their little argument they're really really interesting.

842
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 4: And then their secondary meet up where where Cassian's mad

843
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 4: about Luthen checking in on bicks and I think, like

844
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 4: I can understand both their point of view here is this.

845
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:14,880
Speaker 4: I think this is still a big fuck up from Cassian,

846
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:17,360
Speaker 4: but it's like it makes sense, but like, yeah, the

847
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 4: relationship is getting like the better of him on like

848
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,839
Speaker 4: a strategic standpoint, like yet at this at this plot point,

849
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 4: and Luthen still trusts them though, Like Luthen still gives

850
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 4: them the assignment to kill doctor Gorst, so like Luthen

851
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 4: still is able to work with these people, and he's

852
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 4: still actually like oddly enough, like prioritizes empathy and like

853
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 4: he says like like like empathy, like you can you

854
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 4: cannot have a you cannot have a revolution without empathy.

855
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 4: That's what this is built on. And and and even

856
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 4: though he's a bit of a hard ass sometimes he

857
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 4: still does like trust.

858
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 3: Them, yeah, yeah, but he's he also is deliberately fucking

859
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 3: with him like one of these Yeah, totally, he's very minific,

860
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,239
Speaker 3: Like he like he's like he's being unbelievaignaive like like

861
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 3: one of the things here is like he deliberately gives

862
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 3: Bis tells Bigs about this assignment that he was going

863
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,360
Speaker 3: to give her and then doesn't specifically just see if

864
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:02,399
Speaker 3: she would tell Andrew about it. And that's how Andrew

865
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 3: would react to that, which is like, don't do that.

866
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 3: That's unhinged, Like that's like not And this is like

867
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:10,600
Speaker 3: also part of like, you know, the thing you have

868
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 3: to like balance youre right is like you know, you

869
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 3: have to be able to balance like getting people to

870
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,840
Speaker 3: do things that need to be done with like not

871
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 3: being a fucking asshole and alienating everyone. And this is

872
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 3: like a and especially when you yourself, because like Luthor

873
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 3: is also falling apart.

874
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 4: And he's not going to change. He's not he's never

875
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 4: gonna change.

876
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 3: He's not changing, but.

877
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 2: He's like he's like the thing though, that's not his job, right,

878
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:38,439
Speaker 2: His job was to make the later stages of this

879
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 2: where people act differently inevitable totally, and he understands that

880
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:47,120
Speaker 2: you need something that horrifies people to do that, right, like,

881
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,919
Speaker 2: and that's that's all he's trying to set up Luth.

882
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 4: It is absolutely like a moral very manipulative I am.

883
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 4: I am still I'm still teaming even though he like

884
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:58,879
Speaker 4: sucks as a dude, like I would hate to work

885
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 4: with him. Well, it's like like I still gotta the team.

886
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,719
Speaker 6: Luthen in the yet Yeah, well I would just say

887
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 6: like like if the thing is like, if you try

888
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:10,360
Speaker 6: to act like this in like an actual organizing space,

889
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 6: this isn't gonna work.

890
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:12,800
Speaker 3: You're just gonna.

891
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 7: Put organization's not doing that, right, That's that's what I'm

892
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:21,720
Speaker 7: saying though, right right, Like like this this works because

893
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,239
Speaker 7: of the exact specific thing that he's doing, which is he.

894
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 3: Is the guy who is coordinating a bunch of networks.

895
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 3: The thing is, in order for networks to hold together

896
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 3: and work, people have to have relationships with each other.

897
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 3: And if you behave like this in that situation, it

898
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 3: will funck out everything. And this is like the conflict

899
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:39,240
Speaker 3: that's happening, like even inside of his own limited network

900
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,720
Speaker 3: is that like he's he is like fucking with everyone.

901
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:44,759
Speaker 3: And we'll get to that with the lesbian.

902
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,840
Speaker 2: You see you see how you see the different levels

903
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:49,720
Speaker 2: at which networks work. Here, like the Gorman Front works

904
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 2: because they're all friends and neighbors who care about each other, right,

905
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 2: and that's why they are like real, tactile, solid, and

906
00:42:57,480 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 2: they're able to stick together even though they're not. They

907
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 2: don't have perfect competence. We see Saws group where someone

908
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 2: made the comment that like, well, he's basically a fascist

909
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:09,479
Speaker 2: and because of like the hold, he has a nice group,

910
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 2: which is not what I saw at all. I saw

911
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 2: as soon as he shoots.

912
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:15,320
Speaker 4: A spy, he has but he's not a fashion.

913
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:17,240
Speaker 2: He has to prove to the rest of his group

914
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 2: that guy was a spy and needed to die. And

915
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 2: once he does, they're like, all right, well back to

916
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:24,919
Speaker 2: the job, right, I mean yeah, But and he gets

917
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:26,800
Speaker 2: he has to get fucked you know, he gets fucked

918
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 2: up as part of like the just the necessity of

919
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 2: it's it's literally the only thing he has in between

920
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:37,800
Speaker 2: acts of terrifying violence. But that's how that group bands together.

921
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 2: And then we see, you know, these smaller cells of experts,

922
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:45,279
Speaker 2: right who they have their connections with each other and

923
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 2: they have their little moments of vengeance and that's what

924
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 2: keeps them going. And the only thing that keeps Luthen

925
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 2: going is the pure logic of the calculus of what

926
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 2: he's put together. That's all he's got.

927
00:43:56,520 --> 00:44:00,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, information collecting boyfriend, always collecting information. All right, let's

928
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:06,200
Speaker 4: talk about the space lesbians who are running the French Resistance.

929
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 4: So I liked. I liked a lot of what they

930
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 4: did with them in this episode. I liked how they

931
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:15,399
Speaker 4: were like reuniting. I liked the way they talked about

932
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:18,799
Speaker 4: the on again, off again style of their relationship based

933
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:22,240
Speaker 4: on like having to live in this rebellion like life,

934
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 4: like they can't always see each other, they're always being

935
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 4: moved around by Luthen. But they both specifically took this

936
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:29,799
Speaker 4: assignment like hoping and like and I think like knowing

937
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 4: that it would mean that they could see each other.

938
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 4: So I liked the development that we had with them

939
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:37,759
Speaker 4: as people who like your are like in the same spaces,

940
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 4: but do not have the luxury of actually having like

941
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 4: a life together at this point in time. They advised

942
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 4: the little resistance group there, they're much more friendly than

943
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 4: than Cassie and is.

944
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:52,359
Speaker 3: Oh, well they do come in or like all right,

945
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 3: you motherfuckers like you people are amateur yes, oh yeah,

946
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 3: yeah yeah, no fucking guns.

947
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like no, Like, I guess they have more

948
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:04,239
Speaker 4: of a willingness to put up with the amateurs than

949
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,399
Speaker 4: Cassie does. I think, I think is kind of what's

950
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 4: going on there. And you know, they're they're hoping that

951
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:11,640
Speaker 4: after this mission's over, maybe they'll be able to spend

952
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 4: more time together. And then Cinta does get killed. And

953
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:18,520
Speaker 4: I've seen a lot of criticism of this. I've seen

954
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:21,800
Speaker 4: people invoking like a like a like a barrier gaze

955
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 4: type crope, and I don't think that's my personal outlook

956
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:27,319
Speaker 4: on what's going on here. I think a lot of

957
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:30,839
Speaker 4: people die throughout this show. We had Brasso die, and

958
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:32,959
Speaker 4: this sort of thing like just happens.

959
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:35,840
Speaker 2: That's that's the point is, Yes, she's really good, she's

960
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 2: really good, she's incredibly it.

961
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 4: Feels so like purposeless and like welcome to war. I

962
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:43,439
Speaker 4: think that is part of the problem, part of the point.

963
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 4: And like the upset like a reaction that you have

964
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 4: I think is like that's that's showing I think the

965
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 4: strength of the strength of this, Like it sucks to

966
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:55,360
Speaker 4: see a lesbian get killed, but I think we're seeing

967
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 4: so many relationships get like fall apart. We're seeing a

968
00:45:57,520 --> 00:45:58,359
Speaker 4: lot of people get killed.

969
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:01,319
Speaker 2: Brasso didn't die, if for any better reason, right, this

970
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:02,800
Speaker 2: is just how war works.

971
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 3: No, I mean I think I think the reason and

972
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:06,880
Speaker 3: this isn't It has been an interesting part of this.

973
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 3: I talked to me about this last episode was like,

974
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 3: this is the most like, this is by far the

975
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 3: most like gay Star Wars we've ever had, right, and

976
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:14,800
Speaker 3: it's the most like I'm trying to think of the

977
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 3: number of other shows the.

978
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 2: Only time they didn't lean away from it or insinuate it.

979
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:21,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, like well just kissing this episode. It's like

980
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:24,839
Speaker 3: I'm legitimately like I'm like racking my brain. I'm trying

981
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:26,800
Speaker 3: to think of like the number of like major TV

982
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 3: shows I have ever seen in my life run non

983
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 3: white lesbian gets to kiss someone. It's like not that high,

984
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 3: And I think that's why people just like, yeah, like

985
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 3: this is this is this is an this is the

986
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 3: best representation of my culture, which is like the leftist

987
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 3: lesbian Yeah, you're gonna see each other I've ever seen

988
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 3: and then it's like, yeah, she fucking dies. It's it hurts.

989
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 4: I think like we were able to watch these characters

990
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 4: develop over the course of like a few arcs, right,

991
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 4: Like we saw these in the Aldanni Heist, where they

992
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 4: were like basically the only two people to survive besides

993
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:59,440
Speaker 4: casting and like everyone else on that ant heist died, right, Yeah,

994
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:02,000
Speaker 4: so they the lesbian's made it out of that. They

995
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:04,759
Speaker 4: they struggle to maintain their relationship in the interim as

996
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 4: as things happened. They had this emotional reunion here. I think,

997
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 4: you know, you could you could make an argument maybe

998
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:13,719
Speaker 4: you'd be better to kill Val. But we've had more

999
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 4: development with Voal because of being related to mon So, Like, yeah,

1000
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:20,839
Speaker 4: it is, it is, it is. It is tough with

1001
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:23,360
Speaker 4: like the disposability, but that is that is that that

1002
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:26,239
Speaker 4: is a part of us fighting in an environment like this.

1003
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not that they're disposable, it's that combat is random,

1004
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:34,759
Speaker 2: like and fuck ups are random, like this this exact thing.

1005
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:37,799
Speaker 2: Somebody screws up and shoots when they're not supposed to,

1006
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:41,959
Speaker 2: and the bullet doesn't stop. Happens all the goddamn time,

1007
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 2: and like it's part of what fucks people up. If

1008
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 2: you talk to people about there who have war experiences,

1009
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 2: one of the things that will fuck someone up the

1010
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 2: most is watching someone they know and care about get

1011
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:55,919
Speaker 2: turned into pink mist. And it's usually a situation where

1012
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 2: somebody hits or steps on or whatever an ied or

1013
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 2: takes a rocket a bad time, and there's this person

1014
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:04,879
Speaker 2: that you knew and you care about and they're three

1015
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 2: dimensional to you and you probably plan to keep knowing

1016
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 2: them after that, and then they're just fucking missed and

1017
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 2: it just it shatters people's minds and that's what happens.

1018
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 4: Like and then like yeah, vow's little like speech to

1019
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 4: to Sam afterwards, being like like you are you now

1020
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:24,160
Speaker 4: have to live your entire life knowing that you took

1021
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:26,279
Speaker 4: this person away, and like every action you take for

1022
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:27,360
Speaker 4: the rest of your life is going to be like

1023
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 4: it's gonna be all in all an attempt to like

1024
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 4: make up for this, Like every every every imperial you

1025
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:35,440
Speaker 4: kill will just be one for Santa. Yeah, because like

1026
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:37,360
Speaker 4: the Cinta was like a professional. This is like the

1027
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:38,920
Speaker 4: life that she led, Like you will never be able

1028
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:40,839
Speaker 4: to understand how important she was. You'll never be able

1029
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 4: to understand like how good she was at this and

1030
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 4: you're like a fucking like French kid. Yeah, like you

1031
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:46,759
Speaker 4: don't know what you're doing, and now you have to

1032
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:48,719
Speaker 4: spend your entire life making up for it. And it

1033
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:50,759
Speaker 4: was a very hard speech, but I think Val did

1034
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 4: a really good job with that and like understanding like

1035
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 4: the political necessity of like you can't let this be

1036
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:57,919
Speaker 4: like in vain either, like you have to like push

1037
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:01,759
Speaker 4: back guy using him, making making his life like worthwhile. Now, yeah,

1038
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 4: and I mean yeah, it's it was rough. I mean

1039
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:06,080
Speaker 4: I would love I would love more more like gay

1040
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 4: characters living happy life in Star Wars, but we rarely

1041
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:10,400
Speaker 4: see anyone living a happy life in Star Wars.

1042
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:11,800
Speaker 2: This is not about happy lives.

1043
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 4: I also, that's not what we're seeing love.

1044
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 2: The thing that doesn't get a huge amount of attention

1045
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:17,880
Speaker 2: in these episodes but is interesting to me is the

1046
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:21,080
Speaker 2: guy that he was he pulled that Matt or whatever

1047
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:26,239
Speaker 2: his name was, Samama, the guy that Sama man told

1048
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 2: his gun to try to stop. Is just this random

1049
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 2: Gorman dude who's like, hey, no, I'm not gonna like leave,

1050
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 2: this is like my city. What are you doing here?

1051
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:35,239
Speaker 4: What's going?

1052
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 2: Realized he carries her body like he goes with them,

1053
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 2: you know, and we it's kind of unclear is he

1054
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:43,239
Speaker 2: likes some sort of spot or is he literally a

1055
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 2: Gorman who it the whole time was looking for a

1056
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:47,960
Speaker 2: way to get involved, and once he realized what was happening.

1057
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:49,879
Speaker 2: He's like, yeah, these are my people. I'm with this.

1058
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:52,239
Speaker 3: Was that the guy from the meeting or was it

1059
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:55,279
Speaker 3: a different the one from the He wasn't he wasn't

1060
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:55,440
Speaker 3: the men?

1061
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:58,960
Speaker 2: Yeah okay, yeah yeah yeah, so I guess he just

1062
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:01,880
Speaker 2: wasn't in the inner circle. But like he hops on,

1063
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:02,440
Speaker 2: you know.

1064
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, but no, I do understand like the racial disposability

1065
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 4: and like the barrier gaze like aspect that could be

1066
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:11,640
Speaker 4: read into this. It's a tough thing to to thread here.

1067
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:14,320
Speaker 4: And I think if if you view this in context

1068
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 4: of all of the people that we have seen like

1069
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 4: get killed, like the entire Aldannie Crewe, like Brass so basically,

1070
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:25,680
Speaker 4: you know, the droid from season one gets like abandoned

1071
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:28,520
Speaker 4: on that planet, I think, like it does it does

1072
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:31,319
Speaker 4: make sense. I think in that larger context, I think

1073
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 4: there's a way that not everyone like has to die

1074
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:38,400
Speaker 4: to lead to rogue one like besides Cassian, No, not everyone,

1075
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 4: but but someone like Since and like frankly, like someone

1076
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:45,239
Speaker 4: like Santa, the type of militant she is, they do

1077
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:46,960
Speaker 4: have a short life span, like that is that is

1078
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:50,040
Speaker 4: part of the specific thing Sinta is doing is like

1079
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 4: you burn fast, and you burn bright and sometimes you

1080
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 4: will die in a way that's like really purposeless, and

1081
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:58,600
Speaker 4: that fucking sucks. And that happens in war, that happens

1082
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 4: in like activist spaces, that happens that happens in the

1083
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:05,279
Speaker 4: United States with people here, and often they are like

1084
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 4: non white gay people. Yep, Like that's what happened in Atlanta.

1085
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:12,120
Speaker 4: So like these these things happen.

1086
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:15,920
Speaker 2: The number of people who committed suicide too after twenty twenty,

1087
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:18,799
Speaker 2: you know, like, yeah, do we.

1088
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 4: Have anything else? You want to want to say me?

1089
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:22,480
Speaker 4: Do do you have anything? When I close out on as

1090
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:27,240
Speaker 4: the resident non white lesbian on the podcast, they killed

1091
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 4: by lesbian. So it's sad.

1092
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:33,400
Speaker 5: There aren't What.

1093
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 3: Is the next time I'm getting a non white lesbian

1094
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 3: in Star Wars is gonna work? Like I Am going

1095
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 3: to be right, like raising a black flag over Shensend.

1096
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 3: But the next time we get another one of.

1097
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:45,840
Speaker 4: These characters of the series, you know, we had we

1098
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:49,239
Speaker 4: we had a non white lesbian uh in acolyte who

1099
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 4: also taught it. Yeah, yeah, I do not see people

1100
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:55,840
Speaker 4: talking about the barrier gay stuff with the acolyte as well.

1101
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:56,320
Speaker 2: Nobody because.

1102
00:51:58,080 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 3: Because it wasn't bad, but I think it's.

1103
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:01,920
Speaker 4: Also worth I think it's also worth remembering like like

1104
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:04,080
Speaker 4: this is this is a show starring like a non

1105
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 4: white leading role, like like a Cassine is not white.

1106
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:10,359
Speaker 4: So I think the racial politics are a little bit

1107
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 4: a little bit more more complex. I think some people

1108
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 4: are discussing.

1109
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:15,440
Speaker 3: But yeah, all right.

1110
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:21,080
Speaker 2: Well these episodes have been amazing. Everybody get into inhalance

1111
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:25,880
Speaker 2: and steal fuel from the military. That's the message of

1112
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:26,360
Speaker 2: andand or.

1113
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:28,560
Speaker 4: Run wild.

1114
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 2: Don't do that. That's a joke.

1115
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:40,360
Speaker 1: Legally, Okay, It could Happen Here is a production of

1116
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media,

1117
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:46,759
Speaker 1: visit our website cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us

1118
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 1: out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

1119
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:52,880
Speaker 1: listen to podcasts. You can now find sources for it

1120
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:56,520
Speaker 1: could Happen here listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.