Speaker 1: Everybody.
Speaker 2: Yes, sure, wind down with Jane Kramer and Michael Cosson
Speaker 2: and wow, you.
Speaker 3: Know that it was a name change. It's like a
Speaker 3: fish and Michael cuss It's like official. Oh dad didn't
Speaker 3: get neither.
Speaker 1: I didn't get that j in her abbreviation.
Speaker 3: Made I hung out with Julie too late last night,
Speaker 3: so yeah, that's true. I was breaking up all my words.
Speaker 3: It's that out.
Speaker 1: I came.
Speaker 3: Real fast. We just got to thank everyone that came
Speaker 3: out to the podcast tour because it was insane, mark
Speaker 3: like crazy.
Speaker 1: I believe it. It was nuts.
Speaker 3: I mean, the crowd was amazing. Everyone asks awesome questions, interaction.
Speaker 3: I felt like we were comedians but also therapists. And
Speaker 3: then I sang songs. It was the cool It was
Speaker 3: the coolest the three day thing we've ever done. We
Speaker 3: shout out to everyone that went because it was insane
Speaker 3: and just I loved every second of it.
Speaker 1: Virginia and New York, Boston, everyone showed up and it
Speaker 1: really just it felt like a party every night, like
Speaker 1: it was crazy. Like after the whole run, Jane and
Speaker 1: I are just in the back of the bus, like
Speaker 1: what just happened?
Speaker 3: We just couldn't believe people showed up. It was cool.
Speaker 4: It was really cool, right because you.
Speaker 2: Do this show in a room it's three other people,
Speaker 2: like it was if anybody's listening to it, and then.
Speaker 4: You go and all these people are there cheering for you.
Speaker 1: That's so great.
Speaker 3: It was crazy, and people like laughed. It was I
Speaker 3: don't know, it was just really cool. People laughed, they
Speaker 3: did they laughed. And I don't want to say some
Speaker 3: of the bits. But like our opening song, we can't
Speaker 3: talk about it just in case if we do another
Speaker 3: few dates, because the opening song that Michael walks out
Speaker 3: to is hilarious.
Speaker 4: It's perfect.
Speaker 3: It's the funniest thing ever. But again, sorry, Mark, we
Speaker 3: can't share it because.
Speaker 1: Those are only for the live viewers.
Speaker 3: But they know what we're talking about.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 3: I'm really excited because we're about to move.
Speaker 1: Yeah we are. You're sad.
Speaker 3: I am getting sad really Yeah?
Speaker 1: Why? Well, because because it's sixty five seventy here and
Speaker 1: it's going to be ninety five and miserable and natural. Yeah. Same.
Speaker 3: Michael's driving his truck cross country in a few days,
Speaker 3: so that's going to be interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that'll be fun. Me two dogs and my brother.
Speaker 3: Well, I've got the kids four days, so which one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Gianna keeps throwing that at Me's like I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be stuck with the kids. I'm like, if you want
Speaker 1: to switch, by all means, go drive two thousand miles
Speaker 1: across country.
Speaker 3: Now. I would love to be the passenger because I
Speaker 3: would want to stop along the way and see things
Speaker 3: like I would want to do the Grand Canyons again
Speaker 3: and do that route, and then maybe I don't know,
Speaker 3: to stop at like all the cool little touristy things
Speaker 3: like the big hay ball or a haything, the.
Speaker 1: World's biggest ball of yarn or something like that.
Speaker 3: I just find that stuff super interesting, and like, I
Speaker 3: don't know, there'd be such quality time. And I know
Speaker 3: that you also love quality time.
Speaker 1: I love quality time. But yeah, I drew the short straw.
Speaker 3: I don't. You're riding with your brother, though, which I
Speaker 3: think is really cute. Michael has a brother that's fourteen
Speaker 3: years younger than him, so.
Speaker 1: He's about to graduate high school. So before he goes
Speaker 1: off to college, him and I are going to have
Speaker 1: this road trip together, which is gonna be a really
Speaker 1: cool memory.
Speaker 3: Are you guys gonna, you know, talk about well, I'm
Speaker 3: sure he's already had the He've already had the sex
Speaker 3: talk with him.
Speaker 1: He's eighteen.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Oh and his parents did find condoms right?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 3: Oh god, sorry Jack good. He doesn't listen.
Speaker 1: No, he doesn't.
Speaker 3: Well on your drive, y'all give you this.
Speaker 1: It's funny. It's probably not even his friends. His teachers
Speaker 1: probably listen.
Speaker 3: Oh gosh, I just okay, let me talk about this
Speaker 3: really fast. We were at I was at a friend's
Speaker 3: house and the kids were playing and I don't know
Speaker 3: what to do. Mark, this is interesting. I kind of
Speaker 3: want you to pipe him because you have kids older.
Speaker 3: So it was arranged so Jolie's. Three of the girls
Speaker 3: was four, one of the boys was five, and I
Speaker 3: took a call in the other room because I was
Speaker 3: kind of the mom that was staying down stairs with
Speaker 3: the kids, and all of a sudden, the kids like,
Speaker 3: do you want to live? Or do you want me
Speaker 3: to kill you? Do you want to die? And I'm like,
Speaker 3: he didn't just say that, And so I walk back
Speaker 3: in the room and he's just like, you can go
Speaker 3: to heaven or I can kill you. Do you guys
Speaker 3: want to die? And I just thought that was super inappropriate.
Speaker 4: Wow, right, yeah, I'd be horrified by it.
Speaker 3: Okay, I go whoha, whoa, whoa.
Speaker 5: I go, you can't.
Speaker 3: I was like, that is very inappropriate language and he's like, no,
Speaker 3: it's not, and I said, yes, it is our daughter.
Speaker 3: My daughter's three. I don't want her hearing that, so
Speaker 3: please stop talking about the D word, thank you. But
Speaker 3: then I start thinking about it, like should they know death?
Speaker 3: And like that's the thing. I what age is he talking?
Speaker 1: He doesn't really know what that means? He's five? He
Speaker 1: was five, so he said.
Speaker 3: I believe he's five. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Right, so that's that age where it's you're impressionable, right,
Speaker 1: so you probably hear something.
Speaker 3: Well, And the girls were like laughing. I'm like, that's
Speaker 3: not funny. We're not laughing about death, guys, because.
Speaker 1: They don't know what. I don't really understand.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but the way he was saying, he's like, I'm
Speaker 3: going to kill you.
Speaker 5: Oh.
Speaker 1: I mean, regardless if I'm understanding it or not, he
Speaker 1: needs to know not to say that period ever.
Speaker 4: So where is he hearing that?
Speaker 3: That's exactly like You're like, but kids, that's what I'm
Speaker 3: just scared of. I those kids know things sooner now.
Speaker 3: But to say I'm going to.
Speaker 1: Kill you, that's up to that's the thing that's up
Speaker 1: to the parents. That's that's parenting. That's what that is.
Speaker 1: It's not not parenting. Like if your kid ends up
Speaker 1: saying that you did a bad job, but if you
Speaker 1: don't talk about it and fix that, then that's bad parenting.
Speaker 5: I like it.
Speaker 3: It just made me really uncomfortable.
Speaker 2: I bet a lot of those things have come up
Speaker 2: over the years where something will come up with like, oh,
Speaker 2: we don't talk about that, But then in the back
Speaker 2: of my mind, I'm like, should.
Speaker 1: We be talking about that?
Speaker 4: Should they know about yeah?
Speaker 2: Because I mean, that's one of the saddest things about
Speaker 2: being a parent, in my opinion, is when they realize
Speaker 2: that the world isn't rainbows and unicorns. Right when they're three,
Speaker 2: everything's wonderful in the world. The world is parks and
Speaker 2: play dates and chicken nuggets and television and everything's great.
Speaker 2: And then they start to realize that there was a
Speaker 2: nine to eleven and that there are people who shoot
Speaker 2: people and kill them in public places, and that's the
Speaker 2: stuff that when they start to realize.
Speaker 4: That stuff, it's heartbreaking.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But when are they ready for that, and when
Speaker 2: do you talk about this, When do you stop shielding
Speaker 2: from that? And should you ever shield them from that?
Speaker 2: And that's the part I've always had a hard time,
Speaker 2: So what did you do? We've shielded them from that,
Speaker 2: We've made the decision to kind of keep that away
Speaker 2: from them, and then they kind of will learn about
Speaker 2: it in school, they'll learn about it in the world,
Speaker 2: and then they'll come home and ask us about it,
Speaker 2: and then we can talk about it. I don't know
Speaker 2: if that's the best thing.
Speaker 1: It may not be, but I think to your point,
Speaker 1: I see why it would be the best thing, because
Speaker 1: if you and your wife have offered an inviting, a
Speaker 1: a comfortable environment for them to bring those kind of
Speaker 1: things to you, then I think that backs up y'all's
Speaker 1: kind of theory behind it. Now, if you didn't, if
Speaker 1: you didn't have a comfortable household for them to bring
Speaker 1: up stuff with you and didn't talk about it, then
Speaker 1: there's no room for them right space for them to
Speaker 1: discuss it.
Speaker 2: My wife went to a seminar recently that was specifically
Speaker 2: about sex talk and how do you do that with
Speaker 2: your kids? And the main lesson from the teacher or
Speaker 2: whatever you call them. Was that when they come to
Speaker 2: you with questions, you answer them honestly and it's no
Speaker 2: big deal because it scares us because when they come
Speaker 2: to us and ask a question that we can feel
Speaker 2: like is completely inappropriate about specific sexual acts.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know what that is.
Speaker 2: You know, that's our instinct. This guy, I don't want
Speaker 2: to talk about that. But that's not the right move.
Speaker 2: The right move is oh, yeah, that's what this is.
Speaker 2: And yeah, people do it, yeap deal, No, it's no
Speaker 2: big deal.
Speaker 3: We know it's crazy. So I this isn't a plug.
Speaker 3: But I partnered with a company of Committee for Children
Speaker 3: and it was all about kids. Ninety it was eighty
Speaker 3: nine or it was like ninety percent of kids know
Speaker 3: their abuser when we're going sexual, which is like the
Speaker 3: whole stranger danger thing, like that's not even a that's
Speaker 3: that's actually myth.
Speaker 1: And I was already meth this is not as impactful
Speaker 1: as people that are close to you.
Speaker 3: Well, no, I mean I was taught stranger danger.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I think you all are, which people they
Speaker 1: should kids should still not go with a stranger. I
Speaker 1: shouldtill understand that.
Speaker 3: But that's talking to your kids about like how to
Speaker 3: it was. It's actually really cool if you guys should look.
Speaker 3: It's called hot Chocolate talk dot org. But it's about
Speaker 3: how to talk to your kids about because Jolie pointed
Speaker 3: to my privates and I was like, what is that?
Speaker 3: And I was like, oh, it's mummies, like hu ha,
Speaker 3: Like I just made up a name, and I was like,
Speaker 3: I probably should name it, like actually, give it the
Speaker 3: proper name.
Speaker 4: Yah, that's what we were told to give it the name, give.
Speaker 3: It the name, give it the yeah, and say he's
Speaker 3: got a penis. I don't know if we can say
Speaker 3: that on air, but it's it's just very interesting because
Speaker 3: you want kids to be able to talk to you,
Speaker 3: But I think it's so awkward and uncomfortable for us
Speaker 3: to have those conversations because I'm not ready to talk
Speaker 3: to Joli about death. I want her to be right.
Speaker 3: I don't want to, which I think is okay.
Speaker 2: It's hard to talk about stranger danger because then then
Speaker 2: I say, well why why, Well, somebody met one people
Speaker 2: in this world who might want to take you, and
Speaker 2: then why would they want to take me?
Speaker 4: Well, I don't want to talk about that part. You know,
Speaker 4: it's weird. It's a tough thing.
Speaker 3: It's just starting to get real complicated and starting to
Speaker 3: kind of stress me out a little bit because I
Speaker 3: don't want to do it the right wrong way. I
Speaker 3: want them to be able to come and talk to us,
Speaker 3: but then it's also scary, and I just like, ugh.
Speaker 1: I don't like it.
Speaker 3: I think I don't know what to do.
Speaker 1: Kind of what Mark was touching on is like, I
Speaker 1: feel pretty comfortable in having those conversations. I honestly don't
Speaker 1: think I'll be that uncomfortable. I think it's because it
Speaker 1: is just you just say it like it is, because
Speaker 1: you don't want to make something taboo, right, you don't
Speaker 1: want to create this like secret thing around it, and
Speaker 1: then it all of a sudden becomes that urge for
Speaker 1: people to do Oh, I want to do this because
Speaker 1: it's taboo, it's wrong.
Speaker 2: And you don't want them to learn about it from
Speaker 2: their friends at school, right because they're going to get
Speaker 2: inaccurate information.
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
Speaker 3: I don't know why, but the death thing is just
Speaker 3: really freaking me out a really hard time.
Speaker 1: That it's really hard, especially with today's the environment of
Speaker 1: today's society, with everything going on, that's terrifying to.
Speaker 3: Hear and also our girlfriend. I know, we just like
Speaker 3: got negative. We'll bring it back up, but I just
Speaker 3: it scares me in today's society because a very great
Speaker 3: school in Nashville where our kids are most likely going
Speaker 3: to go to elementary or high school. One of the
Speaker 3: kids sent a picture because my girlfriend crawled and told
Speaker 3: me this send a picture to a friend saying, look
Speaker 3: how many guns I can fit into my backpack? Don't
Speaker 3: go to school tomorrow.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 3: And that isn't a one of the top places school,
Speaker 3: like they're ranked ten in Nashville or Brentwood, And it's like,
Speaker 3: holy crap. That's like even I'm like, oh god, I'm
Speaker 3: like terrified to send Joel to school.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's one of the things. Actually when this came up,
Speaker 1: Jane and I were talking about it, where like the
Speaker 1: relieving part to get out of La County is, you know,
Speaker 1: the homeless, the chances of things happening just playing a
Speaker 1: numbers game. And if you think about a terrorist attack, right,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be La Chicago, New York. You know, big cities, right.
Speaker 1: You think the chances of a terrorist attack in Nashville
Speaker 1: are you know, smaller than major city, right, God willing
Speaker 1: but the school stuff can touch anywhere anywhere.
Speaker 3: How in freaking Brentwood, Tennessee. Yeah, just makes me really sad.
Speaker 3: And then I'm like, is it the parents? Is the
Speaker 3: kids just being funny? Because that sort of ended up
Speaker 3: being the kid just thought it was funny. That's not
Speaker 3: whoever thinks that. If my daughter thinks that's funny, I'm
Speaker 3: going to I'm in the ground over the rest of
Speaker 3: her life. That's not funny.
Speaker 4: So the parents and teachers got involved and investigated.
Speaker 3: The situation the whole Thank you he was joking. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean it's like, who thinks that's funny?
Speaker 1: Like we're talking to our friend who told us this.
Speaker 1: We're like we all agreed, like that kid should get
Speaker 1: locked up for a few days, just giving scared straight,
Speaker 1: give them twenty four hours in a cell, Like look, dumbass,
Speaker 1: I don't care how how funny you think this is,
Speaker 1: how old you are you do this. You got to
Speaker 1: pay a little bit something like a little bit more
Speaker 1: than a slap on the wrist, Like this isn't good.
Speaker 1: Just it's just too sensitive.
Speaker 3: I would expel the kid. Yeah, if I was a principal,
Speaker 3: because I'm always Michael always makes fun of me. But
Speaker 3: I always say, like, in your right brain, how did
Speaker 3: you think this was right? Like, we had an issue
Speaker 3: with a few things in our house, So I always
Speaker 3: like to know people's like thought process. So my thought
Speaker 3: process for the kid is like, how did you think
Speaker 3: this is funny? Because all these kids have lost their
Speaker 3: lives and I don't know. I just get really upset
Speaker 3: about that. All right, we have an awesome in studio
Speaker 3: guest today, Krishelle Hartley. Before we talk to her, though,
Speaker 3: let's take a quick break, all right.
Speaker 1: So moving back to Nashville, Jane and I are really
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Speaker 3: Just text Janna to thirty thirty thirty. Okay, So in
Speaker 3: studio we have the gorgeous Chrishelle Hartley.
Speaker 5: Thank you.
Speaker 3: You're like, like genuinely beautiful, Like you're so pretty. Stop,
Speaker 3: that's so nice.
Speaker 5: Thank you so much.
Speaker 3: You're so pretty. You're obviously you.
Speaker 1: There we go Battle of the beauties.
Speaker 4: You're more pretty.
Speaker 5: Well when you just see someone from Instagram, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 5: I'm excited to me and you you look better in person,
Speaker 5: if that's possible. Normally it's the opposite, babe, I love you.
Speaker 3: Been here. So you are married to Justin Hartley. I
Speaker 3: am how long you as married for?
Speaker 5: Uh, we'll be married in October two years, but we'll
Speaker 5: be together.
Speaker 3: Six sex okay. And then you guys met on a soap, right, No,
Speaker 3: actually you did soap?
Speaker 5: So I did, okay, And I was working with one
Speaker 5: of his best friends on Days of Our lif and
Speaker 5: he his first job ever was on Passions and so they.
Speaker 3: Were best friend fashion. That was my guilty pleasure, and
Speaker 3: then it just ended and I was like, no.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 5: So I was working with his friend on Days of
Speaker 5: our Lives and he asked him to kind of like,
Speaker 5: what's the deal? You know, she's single, and so the
Speaker 5: friend is actually a terrible matchmaker because he didn't tell
Speaker 5: me that at first, and I went on to date
Speaker 5: some really weird people, and then I later on asked him, Hey,
Speaker 5: what's the deal with your friend Justin? He obviously seems
Speaker 5: single and very handsome and anyway, and that's when we
Speaker 5: figured it all out. And so if I hadn't asked,
Speaker 5: we give him a hard time, like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right maker? And how long was he divorced before
Speaker 3: you guys?
Speaker 5: Two years?
Speaker 3: Okay, So then Isabella was.
Speaker 5: She was nine when I came into her life.
Speaker 3: She's the sweetest, by the way, I really is. She's
Speaker 3: so sweet. Oh hello, Justin. We did a movie together
Speaker 3: years ago.
Speaker 1: I remember what we saw.
Speaker 3: So I'm at the and that's where I met her daughter,
Speaker 3: his daughter, y'all's daughter. Yeah, and she's really sweet. But
Speaker 3: I'm curious, like how that was going in at that age.
Speaker 5: So actually I think nine years old was that. I
Speaker 5: don't know every other person's experience, but I can only
Speaker 5: speak for mine. It was a great age because she
Speaker 5: looked at me and she liked my dress, and she
Speaker 5: liked my hair and she didn't it pretty yeah, So,
Speaker 5: and I used to be a camp counselor and the
Speaker 5: little girls were like that same age group, perfect, so
Speaker 5: it was kind of an easy fit in the beginning.
Speaker 5: And then you know it's not. You know, you go
Speaker 5: through different things throughout when they start to grow and
Speaker 5: those kind of things. But I will say the beginning,
Speaker 5: I feel like I got I got out a little
Speaker 5: easy because she was just so enthralled with, you know,
Speaker 5: my purse or my shoes or my hair. So I
Speaker 5: had an easy audience.
Speaker 3: How has the co parenting been with the other lady?
Speaker 5: Yes, so, you know, I feel like she's you know,
Speaker 5: you know, well, I feel like probably a lot of
Speaker 5: your listeners are gone through the same thing. And it's
Speaker 5: a process, you know, it doesn't it's not always something
Speaker 5: that's like the easiest thing. And then you learn and
Speaker 5: you grow and everyone kind of like gets their own boundaries,
Speaker 5: and as time goes on, then it ends up just
Speaker 5: being your normal and hopefully that's something that you know,
Speaker 5: you want it to be healthy for the child obviously,
Speaker 5: so that's if that's everyone's goal, then you've you've got
Speaker 5: it made.
Speaker 1: And how is it when you when you are in
Speaker 1: that situation kind of getting to the point where because obviously,
Speaker 1: you know, she's a part of your life and she's
Speaker 1: your kid too at this point, right because you're married
Speaker 1: to Justin. So at what point did you start to
Speaker 1: feel where you could kind of be a disciplinarian and
Speaker 1: kind of take on that motherly but not stepping over
Speaker 1: boundaries like I have. I really feel like that's going
Speaker 1: to be difficult for.
Speaker 5: It is it is, and I feel like I connect
Speaker 5: with any other you know, parent in my place because
Speaker 5: it's really tough. You know, I have to try and
Speaker 5: play like you know, sometimes i'm her friend and she'll
Speaker 5: ask me questions that she wouldn't feel comfortable asking her parents.
Speaker 5: And so I've had to go from not having kids
Speaker 5: to all of a sudden jumping into the like, oh
Speaker 5: my god, I've answered some of the most uncomfortable like
Speaker 5: coming of age, you know, those kind of questions where
Speaker 5: I'm like, Okay, how do I explain to her what
Speaker 5: this is? I don't know if I'm allowed to say
Speaker 5: all I had to explain what sixty nine was.
Speaker 1: We were just talking about this.
Speaker 5: It's one of those things. It's like, you're right, it's
Speaker 5: she they're making jokes about it at school, So what
Speaker 5: do you not? You have to tell her because she's
Speaker 5: going to figure it out one way or the other.
Speaker 5: So it's like, Okay, what's the best way I could
Speaker 5: explain this?
Speaker 3: How did you explain that?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 3: Lord, I believe it was else. Please, I know, because
Speaker 3: we have a three and a half and a five
Speaker 3: month old or six month old. You guys have a while,
Speaker 3: so like, I need some bullet points.
Speaker 5: I I said, I believe it was you know, it's
Speaker 5: when someone wants to kiss someone's private air. Oh my god,
Speaker 5: I'm so uncomforabed. At the same time, exactly, I tried
Speaker 5: to make it as clinical as possible. Face, why want
Speaker 5: to do actually exactly what she said?
Speaker 3: Yeah, when would you say?
Speaker 5: I said, you got me? People are so weird.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Wow, I can't watch you squirm and you have to tell.
Speaker 3: You confrontation like that stuff just really gets me. Okay,
Speaker 3: So yeah, I just I mean, that would just be
Speaker 3: really hard. I feel like I would be the worst
Speaker 3: because when we were thinking about divorcing. When about divorce,
Speaker 3: but I was I had my number one thing, and
Speaker 3: this is what my girlfriend, especially Catherine, I said this
Speaker 3: to her a million times. I was like, I don't
Speaker 3: want another woman raising my child. And now, but that's
Speaker 3: the thing I and it's nothing against the other woman,
Speaker 3: because that's also great for the child to have two
Speaker 3: strong women. But I just looked at it from such
Speaker 3: a like territorial like she's mine. But like at the
Speaker 3: end of the day, I'm like, what a blessing that
Speaker 3: Bella is to be able to have two strong women
Speaker 3: in her life.
Speaker 5: And I think that guide natural thought, and I think
Speaker 5: that's why it is probably a lot tougher in the beginning,
Speaker 5: in the beginning until you start to it starts to
Speaker 5: become your normal. But of course that's that's everyone's natural instinct.
Speaker 5: And I think, you know, coming into that position and
Speaker 5: knowing that and kind of you know, and also I'm
Speaker 5: sure it's difficult for it's you know, it's just something
Speaker 5: that you slowly grow and adapt and then hopefully and
Speaker 5: luckily that's where we are now, where everything is we
Speaker 5: try and all work together, and you know, it's it's
Speaker 5: nice to have the extra hands and the extra help
Speaker 5: and somebody. Now it's kind of a bonus where it's like,
Speaker 5: you know, you just have more people involved, and more
Speaker 5: people that love her, and more people that are trying
Speaker 5: to make sure she grows up to be a wonderful
Speaker 5: human being. So it actually is a positive. But of course,
Speaker 5: in the beginning, I'm sure many people don't feel that way,
Speaker 5: and that is totally understandable. Chrishelle, she just.
Speaker 3: Cause it, Yeah, okay, because that would be like something
Speaker 3: I'd like, you cannot call something.
Speaker 1: I can see that at that age, at nine years old,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't assume that they that she would call you
Speaker 1: mom or ever necessarily call you mom. But if it
Speaker 1: was in Jana in that situation, you know, back when
Speaker 1: we talked about divorce.
Speaker 3: A week ago, ya kidding, you know.
Speaker 1: If it's an infant, it's like, how do they not call?
Speaker 3: Because that's person's technically you know, from the ground up,
Speaker 3: don't right, That's.
Speaker 1: What I'm saying. It'd be hard to not call someone
Speaker 1: who's raising you a mom or dad. Yeah, from that.
Speaker 5: Age, joining when I did again she was nine, I
Speaker 5: kind of took the role of like her friend and like,
Speaker 5: so there are where like if there needs to be disciplined,
Speaker 5: that happens a lot of times. I'll just you know,
Speaker 5: debrief her dad when he gets home and kind of
Speaker 5: like talk to him because I just feel like, I
Speaker 5: don't know. It's I'm probably not. I don't know. Probably
Speaker 5: a lot of other people did better than me. I
Speaker 5: tiptoe around things because I just don't want to be
Speaker 5: in a position where I am stepping on toes or whatever.
Speaker 5: So maybe I veer too far on the other side
Speaker 5: of that, but I think it's better safe than you know,
Speaker 5: wishing you hadn't done or said something I don't know.
Speaker 3: So before we talk about your Netflix series, I heard
Speaker 3: you have a really cute story about your name.
Speaker 5: Oh o god, Well, I'll let you decide it's cute
Speaker 5: or ridiculous. But in a nutshell, So, my mother went
Speaker 5: into labor when she was getting her car worked on.
Speaker 5: Remember when the shell station saw it were also a
Speaker 5: mechanic shop. Yes, okay, So she was getting her car
Speaker 5: worked on, and all of a sudden she goes into
Speaker 5: labor and the guy there helping her, the mechanic He
Speaker 5: was holding her hand and calming her down and called
Speaker 5: the ambulance. So I was not born in a shell station.
Speaker 5: I just have to clarify. That's kind of what I
Speaker 5: ended up seeing on the internet that did not happen,
Speaker 5: but she wanted to name me after him because he
Speaker 5: was so lovely and his name was Chris.
Speaker 3: Stop it Chris.
Speaker 5: Chris amazing, And a lot of people are like, well,
Speaker 5: there's Christina. There's a lot of other Chris names. But
Speaker 5: if you know any of my other sisters, they have
Speaker 5: very unique names. I have a Shonda, Tabitha, Carissa, Sabrina.
Speaker 5: So Christina would not have worked in our family, so
Speaker 5: she went with Krishell.
Speaker 1: That's fantastic.
Speaker 3: I love think it's a great story. So you actually
Speaker 3: watched the docu series? No, I haven't yet, but put
Speaker 3: on your queue.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I put on my on my list to watch. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I love like Million Dollar Listing La and New York.
Speaker 1: I love that kind of stuff, and so I haven't
Speaker 1: watched it yet, but I'm excited to.
Speaker 5: It's got some great property.
Speaker 1: To tell us a little bit about it, so.
Speaker 5: I feel like it will appeal to what they called again.
Speaker 5: It's called Selling Sunsets, Selling Sunset and it's a very
Speaker 5: binge worthy show on Netflix, and it basically is Million
Speaker 5: Dollar Listing meets Laguna Beach or The Hills. I don't
Speaker 5: know if you've seen either of those.
Speaker 3: Are the drama. So are there other than beautiful real
Speaker 3: estate agents?
Speaker 5: Yes, they're gorgeous, and unfortunately there is some drama. So
Speaker 5: they were such a tight knit group working together for
Speaker 5: a really long time, and I joined as a newbie.
Speaker 5: You're hated, right, I got a little hazing. I'm not
Speaker 5: gonna lie. Yeah, So you kind of watch me go
Speaker 5: through the process of kind of falling on my face
Speaker 5: but then kind of figuring it out and learning as
Speaker 5: I go. And you also get to see these amazing properties.
Speaker 5: It's kind of a bird's eye view into this luxury
Speaker 5: market that not everybody would get to see but on
Speaker 5: these shows, you know. So, I think that's why they're
Speaker 5: so popular, because people really want to see that, because
Speaker 5: who's going to go spend forty million dollars on the house?
Speaker 5: Very very very few people. However, we all want to
Speaker 5: see what it looks like, like.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, we zillow it all the time to be
Speaker 3: there's a nice skating rink in there.
Speaker 5: I always think I'm like, the tax is alone on
Speaker 5: a house like that.
Speaker 1: I always think, I'm like, what do these people do?
Speaker 5: Exactly what you have to be like assaultant?
Speaker 3: So those are the houses that you're selling are forty
Speaker 3: million dollar houses?
Speaker 5: Well, okay, the cump because I was like saying, girl,
Speaker 5: if anyone's listening and wants to buy, when I there
Speaker 5: is one on the market, I'm happy to show it
Speaker 5: to you. Qualified virus license, I do all yeah, And
Speaker 5: so I live in the valley, and I feel like
Speaker 5: I tend to work a little more in the valley,
Speaker 5: but I also you know, if you have your license,
Speaker 5: you can work wherever. It's just that that is the
Speaker 5: area I'm a little more passionate about. And I know
Speaker 5: all about the school districts and where you can get
Speaker 5: the best cup of this and the best bowl of that.
Speaker 5: So I tend to have more clients in the in
Speaker 5: the valley, but mine are The highest thing I've sold
Speaker 5: so far is five million, which I'm amazing.
Speaker 3: That's fantastic.
Speaker 5: But at my company, yeah, it goes all the way
Speaker 5: up to like fifty million, so it's great.
Speaker 3: So I'm selling Sunset is just in a part of
Speaker 3: it at all? Or is he like I don't want
Speaker 3: to be part? Like what like how much do they
Speaker 3: show your outside lives?
Speaker 5: So some of the girls do show their outside lives,
Speaker 5: But at first it was a conflict because you know,
Speaker 5: he's under contract with Fox, and so we were trying
Speaker 5: to work that out, and then it kind of became
Speaker 5: once the show started filming, there was drama with I
Speaker 5: didn't I thought I was doing a real estate show
Speaker 5: in the beginning. I didn't know that.
Speaker 3: This was gonna have drama.
Speaker 5: So by the time we started fleshing out what his
Speaker 5: availability would be if he you know, got it cleared,
Speaker 5: I realized she knew what Maybe it's best that we
Speaker 5: keep these two things separate because I really like my
Speaker 5: personal life. I'm so protective over it, and you know,
Speaker 5: I mean marriage is hard enough on its own. I
Speaker 5: don't need an added force adding any kind of you know,
Speaker 5: outward drama at all. So I feel like it that's
Speaker 5: kind of what happened. So he, you know, there's like
Speaker 5: an intro and intros. You know who I'm married to.
Speaker 5: It's not a secret at all. And I talk about him, yeah,
Speaker 5: you know, in my interviews and stuff. But he's not
Speaker 5: featured on the show.
Speaker 3: So when did you stop acting or are you still acting?
Speaker 5: I'm still recurring on Days of Our Lives right now,
Speaker 5: and and I actually have a movie coming out on
Speaker 5: Netflix June twenty fifth called staged Killer. Okay, so you
Speaker 5: know what, it just kind of comes and goes, and is.
Speaker 3: There one that you're Are you more passionate in the
Speaker 3: real estate or are you like, where's your where's your focus?
Speaker 5: So, I mean, I always grew up wanting to be
Speaker 5: an actress, so I'm more passionate doing acting. But what
Speaker 5: happens is you can't really pick and choose when you work,
Speaker 5: and so I wanted something else. So I'm not going
Speaker 5: to lie and say I'm as passionate about real estate.
Speaker 5: But I've come to really love it. It's kind of
Speaker 5: one of those things that like grew on me and
Speaker 5: now I really enjoy it. At first, it was like,
Speaker 5: you know, you're taking all these tests and it's people
Speaker 5: are wasting your time, and it's kind of a kind
Speaker 5: of a headache. And now as I'm in entrenched in
Speaker 5: the process, and now I really have people that I've
Speaker 5: worked with that I've loved, and these amazing moments that
Speaker 5: you get to hand somebody their first keys to their
Speaker 5: first home. It's pretty important and special. So now I
Speaker 5: love it.
Speaker 3: I think. I mean, I definitely can relate because you know,
Speaker 3: obviously my main goal is I want to be on
Speaker 3: a you know, a TV show, get back on a show,
Speaker 3: because I was on a show for a couple of
Speaker 3: years and that's the steady income that I want. But unfortunately,
Speaker 3: like you said, we can't pick and choose and you
Speaker 3: have to we have to support our family. And it's
Speaker 3: there's certain things that I'm doing that make the money,
Speaker 3: but that's not one hundred percent what I'm actually passionate
Speaker 3: in doing, right, But you find the passion in it exactly.
Speaker 3: So that's where it's like you found your passion with
Speaker 3: the real estate, and both things can be okay. That's
Speaker 3: why the things I'm doing the side, I'm like, yes,
Speaker 3: do I love love doing this? No, But I'm loving
Speaker 3: doing it because I'm finding I have to find the
Speaker 3: passion in it because I want to be able to
Speaker 3: enjoy everything.
Speaker 5: Then and it empowers you when you can, you know,
Speaker 5: be in charge of when you work and when you don't.
Speaker 5: As an actor, you're kind of a slave too, and
Speaker 5: it kind of can take a hit to your self
Speaker 5: confidence if you keep not booking things, you know, and
Speaker 5: so I just feel like it empowers you when you
Speaker 5: have a whole other thing and then you sometimes end
Speaker 5: up booking more because you're like, I don't need this job.
Speaker 5: It'd be great if I got it, but I don't
Speaker 5: need to pay my light bill tomorrow.
Speaker 1: Right with the busy schedules, I'm sure you and Justin
Speaker 1: have separate. What do you guys do to kind of
Speaker 1: come back together and reconnect with you know, to drown
Speaker 1: out all the noise?
Speaker 5: Yeah, Actually he was just in Canada shooting a movie
Speaker 5: for a month, so that was a little tough. I
Speaker 5: went up there or for a week, and then when
Speaker 5: he got back, it was one of those things where
Speaker 5: I feel like you just kind of have to seclude
Speaker 5: yourself a little bit, and even if you maybe go
Speaker 5: out or maybe don't, but just kind of like to reconnect.
Speaker 5: So it sounds kind of cheesy, you're kind of laying
Speaker 5: but when you're away that long, you don't want it
Speaker 5: to feel normal, you know. So I wanted as soon
Speaker 5: as we got back together to get back to kind
Speaker 5: of the way that it felt, where it's like it's
Speaker 5: not normal to sleep outside of the same bed for
Speaker 5: that long. So let's like, you know, do we have
Speaker 5: to take that meeting in the morning. Let's push it back, like,
Speaker 5: let's stay in but I don't know, little things like
Speaker 5: that where I feel like we just kind of reconnect, like.
Speaker 1: Making intentional time. That's a big thing Jana and I
Speaker 1: talk about, is like making intentional time for each other,
Speaker 1: not coming back together and going about your regular day routine.
Speaker 1: It's like, let's intend to do this together and reconnect.
Speaker 3: So, yeah, obviously, you know you were so happy for
Speaker 3: your husband. Yes, has there ever been that jealousy underneath
Speaker 3: or that frustration.
Speaker 5: No, I have to say, it's not like we ever
Speaker 5: are going out for the same parts, you know. But
Speaker 5: I'm so genuinely happy for him because when I met him,
Speaker 5: he was on revenge and to see him then, you know,
Speaker 5: kind of assent to this a list actor. And of
Speaker 5: course he'd always worked before.
Speaker 3: I always felt bad for him because he was always
Speaker 3: the lead of like a pilot, But then the pilot
Speaker 3: and get picked up ord only ran once. I'm like, God,
Speaker 3: I'm like, he's such a good actor. He's had such
Speaker 3: a good look, and so it never really added up
Speaker 3: to me. So it was it was really cool from
Speaker 3: an outsider too to see him go.
Speaker 5: I think, and again I can only speak for myself,
Speaker 5: but I think if you have a I think healthy
Speaker 5: competition in a playful way is a good thing, But
Speaker 5: if you're actually competitive with your partner, I think that's detrimental.
Speaker 5: I support him and I want him to rule the world.
Speaker 5: If he wants to rule the world. There are times
Speaker 5: where he has offers. It's like, if you want to
Speaker 5: do that, I will. I will get behind you one
Speaker 5: thousand percent. But if you're not going to be happy
Speaker 5: doing that, who cares. You don't need any more of whatever.
Speaker 5: Do it if you want to. And I feel like
Speaker 5: he does the same for me, so you know, I
Speaker 5: have to say it's definitely just one of those things
Speaker 5: where we're not in competition with each other. The only
Speaker 5: times we compete against each other is like when it's
Speaker 5: for fun. If what we'll get, like if you get
Speaker 5: us in a game night, then.
Speaker 3: We'll see you there.
Speaker 1: We're the same way.
Speaker 3: Can we get into the biggest arguments of game nights
Speaker 3: because we get so into it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're probably too into it because then we leave
Speaker 1: getting actually mad at each other and take it too
Speaker 1: person's only New Year's last year, Yeah, that was no good.
Speaker 1: So I've always been curious about that when people are
Speaker 1: in the same kind of profession like you and Justin
Speaker 1: and whether Jan and past relationships with people and music
Speaker 1: and acting, how that relationship is with being competitive. Do
Speaker 1: you think there's I'm asking both of you guys, do
Speaker 1: you think there's couples out there that are like that? Like,
Speaker 1: just for an example, Ryan Gossen and even Mendez, I
Speaker 1: feel like ever since they've been together, like even Mendoz
Speaker 1: hasn't really done anything. Do you think that's a testament
Speaker 1: to them agree like, hey, you take a back seat,
Speaker 1: let me do my thing, or I'm just curious from
Speaker 1: you all. Y'all are professionals in this world and around
Speaker 1: those kind of people. Do you think that takes place?
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm sure it does. I know what Jen
Speaker 3: and Ben did was like she would take a role,
Speaker 3: he would take a role. It's kind of what I've heard,
Speaker 3: like everyone kind of goes. I mean, even like our
Speaker 3: friends that we just met, Like right, someone's having a show.
Speaker 3: It's like, all right, then now you need to take
Speaker 3: the next whatever time off.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: But that's what I will say. I was when I
Speaker 3: was in the relationship. I was super jealous, but it
Speaker 3: was only because from my insecurities, Whereas I had insecurities
Speaker 3: because I'm like, well, I want to be doing that,
Speaker 3: I want to be up on that state. I like,
Speaker 3: why why don't I have that crowd like? And then
Speaker 3: so then I but that was all my insecurities feeding
Speaker 3: into which ended up ruining the relationship because I was
Speaker 3: so insecure and think and I think.
Speaker 5: That's that's part of it, where it's like I can
Speaker 5: see that. But luckily because when I was in a
Speaker 5: bad place and I wasn't working, and that's actually when
Speaker 5: I decided to get my real estate license because I
Speaker 5: had to. You know, I'm not one of those people
Speaker 5: that just wants somebody to pay for me. Like I
Speaker 5: take a lot of pride in always having been, you know,
Speaker 5: a self made person and paying and supporting myself and
Speaker 5: my family because.
Speaker 3: You came from a homeless background, I did.
Speaker 5: So well, yeah, what happened well And just basically just
Speaker 5: to say, in that scenario, instead of being jealous, I
Speaker 5: was so thankful that he was able to be there
Speaker 5: for me when I was in a place where I
Speaker 5: had never been able to count on. You know, my family,
Speaker 5: they come from nothing, so I couldn't ever have any
Speaker 5: help financially from them, So to have him be able
Speaker 5: to financially like be there for me while I went
Speaker 5: and got my license. So it was the opposite of that.
Speaker 5: I was just so grateful that he did that as
Speaker 5: opposed to the competition part of it. And then as
Speaker 5: far as my family goes, they you know, we're from
Speaker 5: we were homeless several stints in our life, and you know,
Speaker 5: it's just kind of something that we I lied about
Speaker 5: for so long because you know, you're embarrassed, and I
Speaker 5: was a kid in school and I missed a grade.
Speaker 5: And so anyway, now to be able to have a
Speaker 5: platform and it's covered on the show in a beautiful way,
Speaker 5: I think, and now I'm able to bring a spotlight
Speaker 5: to it and talk about it and help others. I
Speaker 5: have to, you know, I think you have to kind
Speaker 5: of initially had to get over myself and the embarrassment,
Speaker 5: and now I'm not embarrassed anymore. It's something that you know,
Speaker 5: it happens, and it happens to a lot of people.
Speaker 5: And I see these people all the time where it's like,
Speaker 5: you know, I think people have especially living in this
Speaker 5: luxury la type of market that I work in, people
Speaker 5: have a predisposition to have judgment about people that are homeless,
Speaker 5: and you know, I just feel like coming from a
Speaker 5: family that has kind of dealt with I've never said
Speaker 5: this before, but a family that has dealt with not
Speaker 5: just homelessness, but also addiction and different things like that,
Speaker 5: I sometimes tiptoe about what I say because you know,
Speaker 5: it's not just me involved in this story. But there
Speaker 5: were a lot of factors, you know, so we basically
Speaker 5: had to bend for ourselves for a certain sense of
Speaker 5: our childhood. And now I I really appreciate and love
Speaker 5: that they always said it felt like the best they
Speaker 5: could with the means that they had. My parents aren't educated,
Speaker 5: you know. My dad unfortunately just passed, but he you know,
Speaker 5: he couldn't read, and so it was just like, you know,
Speaker 5: there were just so many there's so many people born
Speaker 5: into these poverty type situations and everything is stacked against
Speaker 5: you to get out of it. I mean, you don't
Speaker 5: have so any kind of those programs. I'm so passionate
Speaker 5: about the programs that are helping people that. You know,
Speaker 5: I just feel like sometimes when people really have everything
Speaker 5: at their feet, they're judging people that don't. And it's like,
Speaker 5: you know, if the amount of effort that it takes
Speaker 5: to get from that spot where you have no help
Speaker 5: and to pull yourself out of it. I just I
Speaker 5: want to help all those people that I can, because
Speaker 5: it's you have no idea how much it helps their
Speaker 5: lives to just kind of give them a hand as
Speaker 5: opposed to, you know, just blowing them off and thinking that,
Speaker 5: you know, get it together. I don't know if I
Speaker 5: spoke very.
Speaker 1: No, that was brilliant. I think to your point, it's
Speaker 1: sometimes it's unfortunately out of their control, right, Like it's
Speaker 1: easy to say, hey, get your together. World. There's probably
Speaker 1: fell apart, not because of them, but because of the
Speaker 1: environment that they're brought into. And that's can't blame somebody
Speaker 1: for that, like you're saying. And so kudos to you
Speaker 1: for being as strong as you are to pull yourself
Speaker 1: out of that and to be successful you know everything
Speaker 1: that you're.
Speaker 3: Doing, and everyone go to upwardboundhouse dot org to help
Speaker 3: give back.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's actually, if I can just say real quick,
Speaker 5: it's a it's what I love about them. They don't
Speaker 5: just give you a place to stay. They for a
Speaker 5: whole year that you're there. They give you classes that
Speaker 5: they give you childcare while you go interview, they give
Speaker 5: you interview clothes, they give you an apartment to stay in,
Speaker 5: and so they're not just here's here's a bed, you know.
Speaker 5: So that's why I those are the kind of places
Speaker 5: that will change someone's life.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're trying to help and to grow. I think
Speaker 3: there are our only you know how we've because we've
Speaker 3: talked about homeless and honestly not in a respectful way
Speaker 3: at times, but we had someone we tried to do
Speaker 3: this giving back challenge and we gave a bunch of
Speaker 3: food to a homeless person. He's like, oh, no, I
Speaker 3: don't eat that stuff. And for us, we're like, well,
Speaker 3: why wouldn't they? You know. But it's so it's that
Speaker 3: was kind of a tricky situation for us because we're like,
Speaker 3: we're trying to give back and then they're being picky
Speaker 3: about I don't know right, And.
Speaker 5: I've had that happen before. You know, you you go
Speaker 5: to give like what you think is like amazing, and
Speaker 5: then yeah, I've actually done the same thing. I think
Speaker 5: the best thing if you want to give is to
Speaker 5: find these kind of organizations. And there's food on foot,
Speaker 5: there's a word boundhouse, there's my Friend's Place. I work
Speaker 5: with all three of those places that are all that's
Speaker 5: about rehabilitating, right, and.
Speaker 3: Because those people really want they're willing to they want
Speaker 3: to change or not to check, but they want the
Speaker 3: help and they need the help.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and there's ways to work the program where if
Speaker 5: you really use what they provide you. I think some
Speaker 5: of one of them has a ninety five percent success
Speaker 5: rate upper Bound House of once you go into their
Speaker 5: facility for the year that you're there, ninety five percent
Speaker 5: success rate of not being homeless again. Wow, So that's
Speaker 5: really amazing.
Speaker 1: Do they do any of these programs like upper Boundhouse
Speaker 1: or the other ones that you mentioned, Do they focus
Speaker 1: on any kind of addiction tw addiction twelve step concept too?
Speaker 1: Because this might be a stereotype or whatever, but from
Speaker 1: your experience and working with these programs, are there a
Speaker 1: lot of people that are addicts that may not know
Speaker 1: that come into this and want to get help, But
Speaker 1: then you know, the professionals they are realizing they have
Speaker 1: addictive tendencies or whatever is their correlation there.
Speaker 5: That's a great question. My Friend's Place and Food on
Speaker 5: Foot both accept people in that are whatever however you
Speaker 5: come in. Is how you come in and they will
Speaker 5: help you no matter what, and they will help you
Speaker 5: really truly. These people are so passionate. They're volunteers and
Speaker 5: they're so amazing. They deserve all the praise because they're
Speaker 5: in there every single day volunteering and they are providing
Speaker 5: them with resources to really change their life if they
Speaker 5: want it. Upward Bound House is a little different, you know,
Speaker 5: because they house children as well, so I think you
Speaker 5: have to be really careful past drug tests. So I
Speaker 5: work with both kinds, one that does not accept them
Speaker 5: and one that does. But they're both important, you know,
Speaker 5: and obviously it makes sense they're accepting small children, so
Speaker 5: you have to you have to start seeing it.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Wow, Well you're just like inspiring all around. You're
Speaker 3: not only beautiful, but you're smart and you're encouraging and
Speaker 3: we just can't thank you enough for coming on the show.
Speaker 3: Watch Selling Sunset, it's a docu series for Netflix, and
Speaker 3: then please give you know, get some more information, especially
Speaker 3: go visit Upward Bound House dot org. Forshall. Thank you
Speaker 3: seriously so.
Speaker 1: Much, Thank you so much for going on.
Speaker 5: Thank you.
Speaker 3: All right, babe, So you you went to college, you have, yes,
Speaker 3: you did, and you have student loans, don't you?
Speaker 5: Or you did?
Speaker 3: I did at one point, so you definitely needed so
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Speaker 1: More money in your pockets less debt. I love it.
Speaker 1: So Fie awesome. She's so sweet, she's super like very genuine.
Speaker 3: Extremely genuine, and I just I love I love her
Speaker 3: journey make you can tell she's a hustler, yes, and
Speaker 3: I appreciate that. Instead it's just kind of wallowing or
Speaker 3: being like, oh, you know, just the spouse up, like
Speaker 3: she's making a name for herself, and I just she's
Speaker 3: already had the name, but still like she's she's not stopping.
Speaker 3: And I really appreciate that.
Speaker 5: Driving.
Speaker 1: I think that no matter who she's married to, whether
Speaker 1: it's Justin or nobody, she wouldn't change. Yeah, Like, she
Speaker 1: just has that passion, she has that grind to do
Speaker 1: things that she wants to do and nothing's going to
Speaker 1: change that. Yeah, you can definitely just get you get
Speaker 1: that from her vibe and her personality is awesome.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree. I just I really like everything about her.
Speaker 3: So we should do double date.
Speaker 1: Sure?
Speaker 3: Anyway, Hey, Mark, do you gt any emails for us?
Speaker 5: Well?
Speaker 2: This one is particularly pertinent death thought. This is from
Speaker 2: Holly's thin very what pertinent?
Speaker 5: I don't know?
Speaker 3: That word is too big for me.
Speaker 2: I've been with my husband for ten years now. We
Speaker 2: started struggling with our marriage and divorce was a daily topic.
Speaker 2: I started a new job and met a man there.
Speaker 2: As time went on, we grew closer and closer, to
Speaker 2: the point that I told him I loved him and
Speaker 2: we could start life together. I just needed to leave
Speaker 2: my husband, but I didn't.
Speaker 4: Have sex with him.
Speaker 2: I didn't kiss this man because my heart I knew
Speaker 2: it was wrong. One night, my husband recorded me having
Speaker 2: a conversation with this other man. I confessed and told
Speaker 2: him everything. I did contact the other guy one last
Speaker 2: time to tell him it was over. Since then, my
Speaker 2: husband has been by my side, but I am still
Speaker 2: living in the mess that I made. He still holds
Speaker 2: it over my head, has no faith or trust in me,
Speaker 2: and it's been going on four years and a child later.
Speaker 2: I walk on eggshells because I want to show him
Speaker 2: that I love him, and yes, I want this marriage,
Speaker 2: but it doesn't seem enough. So what could I possibly
Speaker 2: do more than I've already tried to get him to
Speaker 2: forgive and forget this kind of thing. I want him
Speaker 2: to trust me and love me the way he did
Speaker 2: ten years ago.
Speaker 3: It's a that's hard. I mean, it's a great email.
Speaker 3: Then thank you for sharing all that. Holly, that's a
Speaker 3: really hard one because you can't put a time limit
Speaker 3: on someone's How would I say that someone's process of grieving?
Speaker 3: So I know for us, you know hereis there are
Speaker 3: still times that's just so hard because you don't want
Speaker 3: to put you don't want to put a time because
Speaker 3: in ten years, like just when we talk to Jason
Speaker 3: and Shelley about it, this will They're like, we're still
Speaker 3: talking about it and it's fifteen minutes, fifteen, fifteen years.
Speaker 1: Yes, this will be a part of their life no
Speaker 1: matter what.
Speaker 3: Now do you think it sounds like maybe he's not well, I'm.
Speaker 1: Just gonna I'm curious. Do you think the emotional aspect
Speaker 1: cuts deeper than the physical because she didn't According to her,
Speaker 1: she didn't do anything physical with him, but she told
Speaker 1: him that she loved him and talked about starting our
Speaker 1: life together.
Speaker 3: I think again, it just depends. I would Well, I'm
Speaker 3: asking you if I did that, what would be harder me?
Speaker 3: Just having physical relations or an emotional relation from a guy?
Speaker 1: Say point, I mean, obviously neither one of them are great.
Speaker 1: But I think the physical thing, with the physical there's
Speaker 1: I feel like there's fixable issues because it was probably
Speaker 1: like a a time frame or something specific that caused
Speaker 1: the person to go outside the marriage with the with
Speaker 1: the emotional I worry about can this ever be repaired?
Speaker 1: Like will you ever love me because you fail for
Speaker 1: another man? Like you told another person you loved them
Speaker 1: and you wanted to start a life with them.
Speaker 3: But maybe she truly didn't. I know, I've said I
Speaker 3: loved you as people and I didn't really love them.
Speaker 3: I just was needing a I was just needing that
Speaker 3: emotional connection, you know what I mean. Yeah, So but
Speaker 3: again that's hard for a husband to unsee that and
Speaker 3: get that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but.
Speaker 3: I just you know, you guys obviously have another kid.
Speaker 3: You bren another kid into the world. So I think
Speaker 3: it's one of those things where you know, you just
Speaker 3: you can't put the time on it. But also there's
Speaker 3: got to be some growth on his side too to
Speaker 3: try to Yeah, and.
Speaker 1: The fact that she even says the way she says it,
Speaker 1: he still holds it over my head.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So that's something where it's like, that's not that's.
Speaker 1: Different than expressing yes, all right, hey honey, you want
Speaker 1: to go out with your friends. Okay, But here's my fears. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because of what happened. That's the way, Yeah, saying hold
Speaker 1: it over my head. It's like, no, I don't want
Speaker 1: you to do that. Because I don't you're probably going
Speaker 1: to do this. Yeah again four years in a child later.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm sure she's just based on that she's
Speaker 1: trying to show. I make up that she's showing that
Speaker 1: she loves him and wants her life with her husband.
Speaker 3: Well she's still there.
Speaker 1: Yeah right, I'm saying, like through her actions.
Speaker 3: Mark, what do you think?
Speaker 4: Well, obviously, I mean, look, she broke his heart.
Speaker 2: If I'm putting myself in his position, it's it's it's
Speaker 2: just it's just profound sadness. It's heartbreak, it's it's a betrayal,
Speaker 2: it's why.
Speaker 4: Wasn't I enough? It's all that stuff. But I don't
Speaker 4: know that it gives him the right to be a
Speaker 4: dick to you remember the rest of your life?
Speaker 3: Yeah, you have to. That's the part where he has
Speaker 3: to start, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think I don't know if you
Speaker 2: guys are in therapy, but I know that you guys
Speaker 2: have gotten great results from that sort of thing, and
Speaker 2: I think that will help him get over those emotions
Speaker 2: of being so jerky about it. He doesn't have to
Speaker 2: do that anymore, and maybe that's how you guys get
Speaker 2: tart together. But like you guys said, it's just time. Yeah,
Speaker 2: time is gonna He's not going anywhere, and that's great.
Speaker 2: It's great that he's not going anywhere. It's not great
Speaker 2: that he's got this. He's still holding it over your.
Speaker 1: Head, which could be enticing him to not go anywhere
Speaker 1: because he feels like he has this power and control
Speaker 1: of the relationship, right, and so you know, if they're
Speaker 1: not going to therapy number one, they definitely should. And
Speaker 1: he's probably hasn't owned anything that he's done where maybe
Speaker 1: he had something to do with driving her away, but
Speaker 1: he's still holding on to it. Again, just based off
Speaker 1: the vernacular she uses, it doesn't seem like he's like, well,
Speaker 1: what could I have done to to not push her away?
Speaker 1: It doesn't seem like he's doing that at all, which
Speaker 1: he needs to, right because divorce was a daily topic
Speaker 1: before this happened, right, so obviously there's issues. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: just seems like he's still fingerpointing as opposed to being like,
Speaker 1: is there something I could have done? Like you know,
Speaker 1: you for you, it took you a while, it took you,
Speaker 1: you know, some time, but you got to the place
Speaker 1: eventually where it's like, well what can I do different?
Speaker 5: You know?
Speaker 1: And it takes time.
Speaker 3: But four years down this place now, not before.
Speaker 1: No, I'm not saying like immediately after. It takes some time,
Speaker 1: but four years down the road. Again, everyone's different, everyone's
Speaker 1: timeline is different. But I'd like to think that they
Speaker 1: should be in a place, or hopefully he'd be in
Speaker 1: a place to start to look at himself.
Speaker 3: Can I mention something that kind of came up at
Speaker 3: the podcast tour that kind of has still stuck with me,
Speaker 3: that's bothered me a little bit about the kind of
Speaker 3: this topic. Sure, I'm kind of interested to see Mark's
Speaker 3: point of view too. So I had asked our guests
Speaker 3: and then I kind of asked Michael, I said, what
Speaker 3: would be your marriage deal breaker? And he had said
Speaker 3: if I cheated on him? And so, after everything we've
Speaker 3: been through, after everything we've been through, if you cheat
Speaker 3: on me, And I'm thinking to myself, I get that
Speaker 3: because we've done so much work, but I but still
Speaker 3: it feels so one sided to me that after me
Speaker 3: sticking through it because I thought we did a lot
Speaker 3: of work. And I know, Granton, we've done so much
Speaker 3: work now post you know, getting married and stuff. But
Speaker 3: it's that you would really truly leave me if I
Speaker 3: cheated on you, And that feels so shallow to me
Speaker 3: in a way.
Speaker 1: I understand why it would, and I understand why anyone
Speaker 1: male or female, if they're in your position. Why if
Speaker 1: the other person said, that's like really, like what the
Speaker 1: f Like? I took you back? I was willing to
Speaker 1: work at this. Why would that be a deal breaker
Speaker 1: for me? It's not about the act. It's about if
Speaker 1: Because we value our communication, we value therapy and discussing
Speaker 1: on what's going on in our life. If we got
Speaker 1: to that point where you weren't talking about things that
Speaker 1: were wrong, and you get to a point where you
Speaker 1: just stuffed it all down and acted out outside of
Speaker 1: our marriage, then I'd be like, what have we been
Speaker 1: doing all this work for? Like? Then then that means
Speaker 1: you weren't doing the work and coming to me and
Speaker 1: bringing up issues that you have.
Speaker 3: So maybe I had my own issues and wouldn't you
Speaker 3: wouldn't stick. I didn't know that you had your issues
Speaker 3: before we got married, you know, and it's I'm just
Speaker 3: plaining Devil's advocate in a get I don't understand that
Speaker 3: that really bothers me, that that would be your thing.
Speaker 3: I'm like, man, after everything I've stuck out with you,
Speaker 3: and if I have my moment where sometimes because everything
Speaker 3: we're going through was a lot and maybe that is
Speaker 3: my way of having my slip, not saying it's right,
Speaker 3: but like after you know, we might get into a
Speaker 3: big argument and you might have a medium relapse or something,
Speaker 3: maybe not even a physical but and if I go on,
Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm like, you're gonna leave me because of that?
Speaker 3: Like that for it just really like bothers me.
Speaker 1: Just like we talk about a lot on this right,
Speaker 1: you don't know what you're doing in this situation until
Speaker 1: you're in it. All I'm saying is because of all
Speaker 1: the work and all the time and all the therapy
Speaker 1: we have put into this.
Speaker 3: Just terrupts me.
Speaker 1: And which I understand. I understand why I would I
Speaker 1: do I empathize with that.
Speaker 3: Because I'm like, I can I can still grow with
Speaker 3: because again, everything that we've been through, I could foresee
Speaker 3: maybe one day Not saying I would ever cheat on you,
Speaker 3: but having being so like, you know, what ef.
Speaker 1: It right again? Because of all the things that we
Speaker 1: do to prevent those things, But.
Speaker 3: What if we didn't? What if? Likes said, But I'm
Speaker 3: just saying that to me just feels Mark, do you
Speaker 3: have any insight on that? And because you're just kind
Speaker 3: of staring at.
Speaker 4: It, trying to hang back on.
Speaker 2: I do think it's silly to think that there will
Speaker 2: never be any more problem. It's because you're putting in
Speaker 2: this work, which is great, and you're working together on this,
Speaker 2: There's still going to be problems.
Speaker 1: Along the way.
Speaker 3: I still might be holding resentment to you, and I
Speaker 3: still have resentment, but in some day, one day that
Speaker 3: might flare up more and I might be weak just
Speaker 3: like you've been weak. And but yet to know that
Speaker 3: my partner, after all this stuff would leave me from
Speaker 3: a weak moment like that just feels so like, Man,
Speaker 3: what is this then? That you wouldn't fight through it
Speaker 3: with me to get back to a good place again,
Speaker 3: Because I honestly will say, I mean, it's just that's just.
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 4: I think he would. Honestly, I think he'd leave. I
Speaker 4: don't I do I think he would.
Speaker 3: Because the fact that he even said that because he
Speaker 3: had no I but I'll tell you, I'll tell you
Speaker 3: this would have been my answer, because I wouldn't have
Speaker 3: said if you cheated on me again. It would be
Speaker 3: if you if you continuously were defensive or or or
Speaker 3: so ink like I can't live in that kind of household, right,
Speaker 3: that would be my marriage deal breaker, not if he
Speaker 3: cheats again. Okay, so that's what else?
Speaker 1: People?
Speaker 5: All right, But.
Speaker 1: I mean where again, what else would mine be?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 3: Gosh, I could I could shame you twenty four to seven?
Speaker 4: I could, Yes, you know, I guess that would be
Speaker 4: a deal. But we're past that.
Speaker 5: We're not.
Speaker 3: That's what I'm saying. Like there might be days that I.
Speaker 1: Still yeah, and you still have those moments, but it's
Speaker 1: not like it was at the beginning. If you still
Speaker 1: shame me now like you used to, Yes, and I
Speaker 1: even told and I even contemplated that stuff then where
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't know if I can stay
Speaker 1: in this because of that. But we got past that.
Speaker 1: So you said, like from this point moving forward, if
Speaker 1: you just randomly started to shame in me all the
Speaker 1: time like you used to, then yes, but that's not
Speaker 1: what's happening. So the only thing I could I could
Speaker 1: come up with is if you did that, it would
Speaker 1: just be really hard after all of the work that
Speaker 1: we've done. That's like now if I if I relapsed physically.
Speaker 3: But you'll say, well, it's an addiction.
Speaker 1: I've never used it as an.
Speaker 3: Excuse, but you have. You're like, you know, I'm an addict.
Speaker 3: This is a possibility, you said.
Speaker 1: Right, because I could never say never.
Speaker 3: Right. But you're saying, but in therapy, you'd say, like, well,
Speaker 3: I said, you know, but I wouldn't.
Speaker 1: Expect you But I wouldn't. I wouldn't write that off
Speaker 1: and expect you to be okay, I wouldn't, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. So, but I'm saying, if if I
Speaker 1: did that, you're telling me that you wouldn't have a
Speaker 1: really hard time staying.
Speaker 3: It wouldn't be the reason I left.
Speaker 1: I didn't ask that, we say, would I asked that.
Speaker 1: I didn't ask that. I said, would you have a
Speaker 1: really hard time staying?
Speaker 3: Of course I would, right, But that wouldn't.
Speaker 1: Be because of why, because of all the work that
Speaker 1: we've done.
Speaker 3: Well, No, because of the principle. Yeah, but it's you know,
Speaker 3: that's not for me, But that's not my deal breaker.
Speaker 1: But you would still be a really hard It would
Speaker 1: be really hard for you determine whether to stay or not.
Speaker 3: That doesn't that's not my deal breaker though, And that's okay.
Speaker 3: We have different ones. It's just I'm just having I'm.
Speaker 1: Trying to put you in the same position where.
Speaker 3: But I would not that would not be my deal breaker.
Speaker 3: You're trying to like put me and say that I
Speaker 3: understand it'd be hard decision, but it wouldn't be my
Speaker 3: deal breaker. And that's what you said, your deal breaker
Speaker 3: would be.
Speaker 1: Okay, let me rephrase then, Jesus, it would be a
Speaker 1: really hard decision.
Speaker 3: Okay, all right, we have to go pick up her daughter.
Speaker 3: This has been a really good episode.
Speaker 1: Note thanks for your email, Holly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks, Holli By it's a lot.
Speaker 5: We're going to be out.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah,