WEBVTT - 15. The Accomplice? 0:00:00.480 --> 0:00:03.840 Missing in Arizona contains graphic depictions of violence and may 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:07.320 not be suitable for all listeners. This episode also discusses 0:00:07.360 --> 0:00:15.680 alleged physical, verbal, and sexual abuse from iHeartRadio and Neon 0:00:15.760 --> 0:00:19.680 thirty three. I'm John Walzac and this is Missing in Arizona, 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:23.240 the story of a man who disappeared after allegedly killing 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:26.079 his wife and kids, blowing up their suburban home, and 0:00:26.239 --> 0:00:30.040 escaping into the wilderness. Twenty three years later, I'm hunting 0:00:30.120 --> 0:00:37.960 Robert Fisher, and I need your help. The Tale of 0:00:38.080 --> 0:00:41.080 Robert Fisher now takes us from the arid pine forests 0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:44.560 of the Arizona High Desert to the drizzly, misbeaten coasts 0:00:44.560 --> 0:00:49.040 of Oregon, specifically Astoria, home of the Goonies, those treasure 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:52.680 hunting misfits of cinema lore and seventy four year old 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:56.200 Greg Anderson, the man who found Mary Fisher's forerunner in 0:00:56.240 --> 0:01:00.520 the woods in two thousand and one one grade. We 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:04.920 knock on a door. A woman answers Greg's out back. 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:08.760 She says, in the metal shed. A door opens slowly. 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:14.800 We hear a voice, grizzled, gravelly. Greg invites us in. 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:19.600 We cross into his dimly lit layer shadows slice chilly air. 0:01:20.120 --> 0:01:23.280 His face is weathered, his hair white. We sit down 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:26.840 at his desk explain who we are. He agrees to 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:30.200 speak for the first time since police called him a 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:33.480 person of interest and the media labeled him a vagabond. 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:36.280 They call you vagabond. 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:37.240 That was in the paper. 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:40.520 Greg is a recovering alcoholic many years ago. When he 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:43.720 quit drinking, everyone told him to socialize. But Greg is 0:01:43.760 --> 0:01:45.000 a solitary guy. 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:47.600 So I didn't go resocialize. I would leave. 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:51.520 He spent summers in Oregon and winters in Arizona laying 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:52.880 concrete concrete work. 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:54.600 You could tie out there in the slabs and know 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:56.520 where to come out and bother you about anything. 0:01:56.760 --> 0:02:01.040 When he wasn't working, Greg retreated into the wild one time. 0:02:01.120 --> 0:02:04.680 He spent three months in near total isolation. After the 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:05.960 first month and a half. 0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:09.079 He came back in bod groceries, did everything, didn't talk 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:11.440 to anybody. The only thing I said was twenty bucks 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:13.839 on pump number three and that was it. Then drove 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:15.400 back out for another month and a half. 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:18.120 To be alone for so long, you have. 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:20.639 To be tough in your head. Your own mind will 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:23.600 tear you apart if you let it. Out there, you'll 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:24.760 just rip yourself up. 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:33.919 Greg spent much of his time hiking. Other than hiking, 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:35.840 what would you do? How would you kill time. 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:38.320 Just wandering around? I didn't really like sitting that much, 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:40.840 and I'd have a little pot out there, but I'd 0:02:40.880 --> 0:02:42.799 have to watch that. If you smoke some pot, you're 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:45.440 not going to go for the walk. Take it with you, 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:47.120 roll up a joint and put it in your sock 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:50.000 and go. But then you're smoking it when you're out there, 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:51.600 up on top of a mountain, and then you're too 0:02:51.680 --> 0:02:53.640 stone to get back down, and you think that's a 0:02:53.680 --> 0:02:54.600 stupid thing to do. 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:58.160 How do you find the balance between moving, moving, moving, 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:02.920 always moving, hiking, walking, driving, traveling, and sitting still and 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:05.800 being able to sit with your thoughts. Where's the balance 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:06.320 there for you? 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:09.440 I think the Arizona stuff gave me the ability to 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:12.080 sit and let things just go the way they're going 0:03:12.160 --> 0:03:14.760 to go, and not get all worried about shit. I 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:16.800 see all the people now are looking at their phones 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:18.720 all the time. You've got to have somebody else around 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:20.840 or something going on. And I can sit stare at 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:23.400 the wall and not feel bad at all. After about 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:26.440 four hours of just looking at the wall. Somebody would say, oh, 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:28.600 you're what is it when you sit try to calm 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:32.560 yourself down, your meditation meditating? Yeah, well you're just sitting meditating. 0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:35.160 Well I don't know exactly what that is. Maybe I'm 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:37.160 just sitting looking at the wall, and I can do 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:38.080 that pretty easy. 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:41.840 Did you ever worry that being alone for such a 0:03:41.880 --> 0:03:45.120 long period of time would literally drive you crazy? 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:47.040 You can, yeah, yeah I thought that. 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:48.400 Were you scared about it? 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:50.440 No, but you know you got to do something about it. 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:53.240 When you come in and you're overwhelmed by the store, 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:58.520 a grocery store with all the signage and crab it's 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:02.680 just overmodulating. I look at a wall of foot writing 0:04:02.720 --> 0:04:04.840 and shit, I can't see any of it. None of 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:08.440 it makes any sense. It's like having three people talk 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:11.320 to you can't understand any of one of them. 0:04:11.360 --> 0:04:14.640 A society that assaults your eyes and ears, trying to 0:04:14.680 --> 0:04:18.000 twist your brain and empty your wallet. I consider myself 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:21.320 an introvert. People are surprised because I speak to people 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:24.039 for a living, but I like my alone time. But 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:26.800 I can imagine at a certain point, not only are 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:30.800 you alone, but it's so quiet, it's so peaceful, out there. 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:34.039 Yeah, fire don't make no noise. The first thing I 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:37.480 noticed is fire is quiet or doesn't pomp or snaprinding, 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:38.800 But it's just dead silent. 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:41.479 What did it mean to be out in the wilderness 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:44.440 to you? Did you find that to be a spiritual experience? 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:48.839 Yeah? I never failed alone, never failed alone. Always talked 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:52.320 to Jesus, talked to somebody. You're fine. I did more, bitch, 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:55.000 and as far as one on one with Jesus, I'd 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:58.240 be bitching about stuff. I don't use religious terms like 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:00.919 rebuke you and all that. Hey, fucker, how come you 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:03.680 do this shit like that? What's going on? Why did 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:05.680 you get to why do you kill these little kids 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:08.279 that didn't do anything wrong? I don't see the reasoning 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:11.280 for that. Don't give me this god words and mysterious 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:13.839 ways shit That don't cut it. That just catch twenty two. 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:16.360 If you keep a good bitch on, you're in good 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:18.880 shape because you're talking to yourself and you're not letting 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:22.040 your brain wander off by itself and get you all screwy. 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:24.119 But I can see where you stay in that desert 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:27.080 too long and you're banning for gold or digging a 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:29.880 cave or something that you'll turn into a weirdo after 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:32.360 a while. Anything you want out in the. 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:34.719 Desert, including your sanity, you're gonna have. 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:37.200 To work for or do something to get to keep it. 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:39.360 What about food? Would you bring your food with you? 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:41.400 Was there anything to scavengers? Did you hunt? 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:41.760 No? 0:05:42.160 --> 0:05:44.520 I brought my own food with be all time. About 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:48.280 a top ramen, about a chili and just anything that 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:51.359 you're dealing with, just dry food or can food. And 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:53.720 I didn't have any refrigerator any of that. So any 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:55.919 of the water, I'd mixed it with crystal light, you know, 0:05:56.040 --> 0:05:58.000 just have some flavor in it. A lot of crackers 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:00.359 and peanut butter at a different kind of bee engine, 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:04.240 a lot of noodle stuff, just add water and the packages. 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:06.080 I can't even think of the names of it. 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:08.000 If you weren't surviving off the land. 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:10.599 No, not at all. No. I didn't fish and didn't hunt. 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:13.320 As for water, Greg always kept an eye out for 0:06:13.400 --> 0:06:16.440 creeks and cattle holes, but for the most part he 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:18.920 survived on the forty gallons he bought when he went 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:19.440 into town. 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:21.800 You shudn't use a lot of water for bathe in 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:24.760 or shaven. You drank that water and you'd get pretty 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:27.679 ripe out there. After a while, you take a sponge bath. 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:30.440 I'd have my shower bag, put water in that with 0:06:30.720 --> 0:06:33.200 if you found some quick I'd fill up that shower 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:35.320 bag and it'd get warm. In an hour, it'd be 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:37.120 hotter and you'd have to put cold water in it 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:39.080 to cool it off. Hang it from a tree and 0:06:39.120 --> 0:06:41.120 get a pretty good shower out of it. I use 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:43.280 that a lot. If you left it in the sun, 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:44.840 I'd throw it on top of the van, and if 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:47.200 you forgot about it, it would pop and all the 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:48.760 water and shoot out of it, and you have to 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:49.679 buy another one. 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:53.440 Greg also had to watch out for certain menaces of nature, 0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:55.400 including snakes. 0:06:55.720 --> 0:06:58.560 If you get three days warm, real warm snakes will 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:00.960 wake up down the desert and they get out, and 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:03.880 they're real cantankerous because they know it's not time to 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:06.640 get up yet. They'll start rattling when you're two hundred 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:08.960 feet away. You usually got to be right up on 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:11.040 them and then they'll rattle. That's another thing. Some of 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:13.120 them don't rattle. They sound like you left the air 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:19.640 out of a truck tire. Just louder shit bears. I've 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:21.480 running into bears a couple of times. I had a 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:25.040 bear come in my van once in uh Signal Vite 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:27.640 and they were saying on the news that the bears 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:29.800 were coming down because there's nothing up there in the 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:32.320 mountains from me. So they're catching a lot of them 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:34.320 in scott today, Old a few other places. They're sitting 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:36.520 in the trees. They're darkning them and getting them out 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:39.440 of there. And I think the same night or same 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:41.920 couple of nights, woke up, I had my door open 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:44.320 all the time in the van because it's beautiful out 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:47.000 the moon's out. Can't see out the door, and it's 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:49.760 stunk smelled in there, and there was something right in 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:51.160 front of it, and I couldn't see what it was 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:53.520 because I'm just laying there. It got it backed up. 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:56.600 They see the little goopy years they got sticking out 0:07:56.640 --> 0:07:59.880 of his head. Fuck, that's a bear. And I don't 0:07:59.920 --> 0:08:02.560 have a gun and around nothing, so jumped out of 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:05.440 the way. His face was right here. I jumped in 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:07.520 the back, grabbed my cooking pan and I just started 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:10.040 beating it on his racket, just making a lot of noise, 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:12.880 and bear you could see him got out. Let him 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:16.119 pause out there and start walking away and then I 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:18.360 could grab my flashlight and I was shining it at it, 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:20.720 and you could see the red eyes just looking at me. 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:23.040 Just don't fuck with me. I'll kick your ass. But 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:25.520 that's the scaredest I've ever been in my life. And 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:28.680 the bear was after I had a flat of strawberries 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:31.040 and I'd been eating on it, so that brought that 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:32.920 bear in there, and I wanted to give him all 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:35.360 the strawberries, but you know, fed bears are dead bear 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:39.880 they don't like to doing that humans. I was standing 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:42.040 out in the middle of nowhere, just my van was 0:08:42.280 --> 0:08:44.760 somewhere else. I was on the side of this little 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:48.000 dirt road. It was dusk. It was just about dark, 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:50.480 all the way dark. He comes just in the BMW 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:52.920 or something up the highway and then it turned came 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:55.400 down to the gravel road, and then it turned down 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:57.000 this little dinky road that I was on. 0:08:57.559 --> 0:09:00.600 Greg's the hidden behind brush and trees. 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:03.120 This car pulled up right next to me. I could 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:04.960 reach out and tap on the window if I wanted to, 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:08.600 and they got out their crack pipe or something. People 0:09:08.679 --> 0:09:11.840 in business lady driving and the other guy in business 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:13.680 suits that looked like they were lawyers or something. But 0:09:13.720 --> 0:09:16.520 they said to find a sneaky place to smoke the crack. 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:18.520 And it was just weird that way out in the 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:20.800 middle of nowhere like that, somebody pulls right up next 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:23.240 to you. And where was that? That was up on 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:26.120 the rim, not too far from where the car was at. 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:28.480 Just to be clear, you're saying that was a whole difference. 0:09:28.480 --> 0:09:32.000 If it was just to say, weird shit happens out there, 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:33.600 that somebody to pull right up, I mean, I could 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:35.400 have got them in big trouble. They looked like they 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:37.120 were in nice professional people. 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:40.480 I get the sense that your personalities to handle that 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:43.559 would be don't mess with them. Yeah, just kind of 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:46.880 keep clear, do your own thing, and don't start any trouble. 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:48.280 They won't start any trouble. 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:51.319 With exactly conflict avoidant's personality. They used to accuse me 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:52.680 that in American lake. 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:56.520 Out here, it's a safety mechanism. Isolated corners of the 0:09:56.520 --> 0:10:00.040 American Southwest have always drawn out laws, people gridge to 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:05.640 avoid desperation and ferocity stalk this thirsty landscape. Many incidents 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:10.120 never make the news. A few do, including the Tyson 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:14.960 gang July nineteen seventy eight. Gary Tyson's three sons break 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:18.520 him and another man, Randy greenawalt out of prison. The 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:22.640 Tyson gang goes on a rampage, killing six people, including 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:25.479 a two year old boy, on the back rows of Colorado, 0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:29.880 New Mexico, and Arizona. On day twelve, the gang barrels 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:33.319 through a checkpoint in a stolen van. Bullets rain down. 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:38.240 One son dies, two are captured, along with Randy. Gary 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:41.920 disappears ten days later. He's found in the desert. 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:44.880 Dead Danny Ray Horning. 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:48.560 May nineteen ninety two. Horning, a bank robber, breaks out 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:51.680 of the same prison as Gary Tyson. For two months, 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:55.360 he zigzags through Arizona, eating cacti. He makes his way 0:10:55.360 --> 0:10:58.280 to the Grand Canyon, where he kidnaps two taurusts and 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:03.439 slips past police. Media call him Arizona's Rambo. Speeding down 0:11:03.480 --> 0:11:06.520 a highway one hundred miles an hour, Horning shoots at 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:12.920 a cop. He crashes, but escapes again to Sedona, where 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:15.360 he escapes again just kidding. He's caught. 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:19.240 The Four Quarters Fugitives. 0:11:19.200 --> 0:11:23.520 May nineteen ninety eight, the spot where Colorado, Utah, New Mexico, 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:26.680 and Arizona meet. Three men kill a cop and steal 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:29.600 a water truck. Their plan is to rob a casino, 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:33.280 destroy a power plant, or blow up a dam. They fail, 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:37.240 They die, or at least two of them do. Police 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:41.079 find a body at a riverside campsite. Thirteen months later, 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:44.880 on Halloween at sunset, a group of hunters find another 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:48.400 body on a mesa. Both men died of gunshot wounds. 0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:51.440 Did they commit suicide or were they killed by the 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:56.720 final fugitive, Jason mcveen. No one knows. Mcven slips away, 0:11:57.000 --> 0:12:00.680 melting into the red desert. Nine years later, a cowboy 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:04.760 finds his skeletonized remains in an isolated canyon next to 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:08.120 an AK forty seven, five hundred rounds of AMMO five 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:10.040 pipe bombs and survival gear. 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:14.600 Frank Bannashley Junior and Senior. 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:19.040 December ninth, nineteen ninety nine. Tenny Gatewood Junior is the 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:22.520 only officer on duty on the Ford Apache Indian Reservation, 0:12:23.240 --> 0:12:27.840 one cop covering one point seven million acres. While struggling 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:30.680 with two burglary suspects, he shot in the head with 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:35.160 his own gun. Frank Banashley Senior and his son, Frank Junior, 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:39.920 flee into the wild. A massive manhunt ensues. The next day, 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:43.720 a police helicopter spots two campfires in the forest below. 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:48.120 The cops catch the Banashlees by chance. Robert Fischer is 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:51.520 nearby when the murder occurs. The final photo we have 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:54.719 of him was taken that day in the Apache Sickreaves 0:12:54.880 --> 0:12:59.440 National Forests. So, yes, these wild lands are populated not 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:02.600 only by bears and bats and pinion pines and dust 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:06.800 storms and monsoons, but also by murderous men, and yes, 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:08.880 Greg Gunderson wants to avoid them. 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:11.880 His conflict AVOIDANTCE personality. 0:13:11.400 --> 0:13:39.880 Comes in handy April nineteenth, two thousand and one. Greg 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:43.760 Gunderson is driving home Arizona to Oregon. As he rumbles 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:46.600 up Young Road to Highway two sixty on top of 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:50.400 the muggy on rim afternoon evaporates into a darkening sky. 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:52.119 The weather worsens. 0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:55.079 You're just a slushy snow was coming down. I figure, well, 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:56.600 it's going to get crappy. You got to get a 0:13:56.640 --> 0:13:58.719 spot before it gets dark or you're never going to 0:13:58.840 --> 0:13:59.360 have a fire. 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:01.959 You were just transitting, You weren't planning on camping at 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:03.079 that time for a while. 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:05.480 No, it was the weather made me want to just 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:07.679 and it was getting dark and I wanted to scoop 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:10.120 up to firewood because it was cold. It's either that 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:12.120 or when it's snowing like that, you're going to sit 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:14.760 in the van or go to sleep at five o'clock 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:18.400 getting dark early, so you want some firewood anyway, So 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:20.160 you've got to find a camp spot when it's still 0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:21.760 light enough to find some firewood. 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:25.000 Greg knows a great spot, but it's twenty minutes south. 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:28.720 He already passed it, so he turns around, drives back, 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:32.440 takes a left onto our forest service road and parks. 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:35.440 The sun was already down. It was just the end 0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:38.320 of the evening, darker than this, but it was getting 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:40.480 down there to where it was fifteen minutes it could 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:40.960 be dark. 0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:42.680 What was it like to be out there at night? 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:46.160 Couldn't see it starts that night, But normally I liked 0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:47.920 it at night because you've got to see the moon 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:51.000 go through its changes. It's out every night. There was 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:53.800 nights when midnight the moon would be a full moon. 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:57.200 If you were down in the Superstitions, there's a zinc 0:14:57.360 --> 0:14:59.960 mine area that they used to haul zink out of them. 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:03.440 The roads are white, just white white. So when the 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:07.119 moon's out midnight, that bright You can see a tarantula 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:10.360 two hundred feet away walking across the road at midnight, 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:14.000 which is pretty amazing to see that bark. It's just 0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:16.920 bright out at night. Saw a lot of shit the 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:20.400 rim especially. You see a lot of satellite stuff, a 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:22.960 lot of shit moving up in the air. You stare 0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:25.200 at the stars, you're all over the place. They start 0:15:25.200 --> 0:15:25.760 moving on. 0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:28.880 You tonight, though. The only dots Greg sees in the 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:32.040 sky are the snowflakes falling on his eyes. Was it 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:33.280 heavy or just kind of white? 0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:36.160 It was mushy. It messed with your vision, but it 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:37.600 wasn't sticking real good. 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:39.760 So there wasn't like accumulation on the ground. 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:42.720 A little bit, yeah, a little bit, but not. I 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:44.720 can still see the wood. I remember picking up. 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:49.480 The branches, walking down a tiny rutted road, gathering firewood. 0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:53.640 Darkness falling, the final glimmers of muted light on the horizon. 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:55.720 Greg sees a glint of silver. 0:15:56.240 --> 0:16:00.560 I noticed this carpark truck SUV out no one's and 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:03.080 he wasn't camping, that was just parked. You could tell, 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:04.920 you know, I could say, you could see if that's 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:07.440 a drug deal or that's somebody's staying forever. If the 0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:09.800 blue tarps come out, they're staying for a long time. 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:12.360 If there's any transmissions laying around, they've been there for 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:15.520 two months. You'd just tell it, you know, win a 0:16:15.600 --> 0:16:18.200 bago just louder in hell with the old bikes strapped 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:19.840 to the side of it. You see one of them 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:22.080 every so often, or a school bus. 0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:23.800 Have you been in that area before? 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:25.400 Oh yeah, yeah, so you. 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:27.720 Were familiar with like some of the camp area of 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:28.000 the camp. 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:30.520 Yeah, I'll try. I knew that that fore runner was. 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:32.680 That's not how you camped there. He was parked in 0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:34.640 the wrong spot. Like he just got out of the 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:37.080 car and left, and that's pretty much what he had done. 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:40.880 I think what about it. Immediately said something's wrong here. 0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:43.360 The way the car was sitting there, it wasn't level. 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:45.240 If you're going to spend the night, your level of 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:47.640 the car up that kind of that's the first thing 0:16:47.680 --> 0:16:49.960 you'd do. And then parking the spot, maybe that you 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:52.560 could have a little fire. The fire pits all over 0:16:52.600 --> 0:16:54.160 the place. You just got to move the rocks around 0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:56.200 where you want it. That car wasn't in there right, 0:16:56.280 --> 0:16:57.720 and it was too far out in the middle of 0:16:57.760 --> 0:16:59.560 nowhere to be a drug deal. The drug deals you 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:02.480 see right outside of town. You see somebody leaning on 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:04.480 the roof of their car, standing there out in the 0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:07.679 middle of nowhere. Well, he's waiting for somebody. Looked like 0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:10.960 somebody had just abandoned that car. It just looked odd 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:12.520 the way he was sitting in. And that's not even 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:15.400 how you go in that spot. You drive over here 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:18.560 and you build a little fire over there. It's pretty 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:22.080 blase a little spot. But it wouldn't camp angled like that. 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:25.600 I parked flat. I mean, it just dead flat. That's 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:27.760 the way I wanted. If not, I'll jack up my 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:30.680 bed with some books underneath his legs. But you don't 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:33.000 want to be sleeping downhill if you're sleeping in the rig. 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:35.880 And he was parked just a little off. I don't 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:37.280 know if it was right, so he was down or 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:40.080 the front or whatever, but he wasn't He wasn't flat. 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:43.760 Do you remember seeing anything else when you saw the Forerunner? 0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:47.560 Did you see any camping equipment and any cans of food, 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:51.200 any water bottles? Nothing, so just a car. 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:53.240 Yeah, that's why I thought it was just parked there. 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:55.480 It wasn't camping, and it was parked at an angle 0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:57.400 and in the wrong spot, and it was just. 0:17:57.400 --> 0:18:03.679 Don't Greg knows it could be Fisher, but he isn't sure. 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:07.120 He doesn't want to get involved. He's cold, he's tired. 0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:10.080 He walks back to his man. Did you see a 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:10.880 fire that night? 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:11.680 No? 0:18:12.240 --> 0:18:14.359 Do you see any fires anywhere in the distance? 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:16.080 No, you couldn't really see that far. 0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:18.760 But no, did you hear anything that night? 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:20.879 Oh? There are no people up there. 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:22.640 Did you light a fire that night? 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:25.399 Yeah? Yeah, I had a fire that night. Well, the 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:29.200 branches that are in the stumps where they taper down there, 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:31.800 there's a lot of resident in them that burned real good. 0:18:32.320 --> 0:18:35.520 Were you worried that if it was Robert Fisher, that 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:38.399 he would see her fire and come after you. 0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:42.280 No, I was concerned about it, that that could be him, 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:45.160 But it didn't seem like anybody was there, just from 0:18:45.200 --> 0:18:47.119 the looks of it, like there's not even a chair, nothing, 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:48.399 just there's just nothing. 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:51.680 Were you worried that he would come over and kill 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:52.600 you and take your van? 0:18:53.040 --> 0:18:55.520 I wasn't thinking like that, but that would cross through 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:58.359 your mind real quick. But yeah, what would I do? 0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:00.359 I din'te a gun. I never took a gun with me. 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:02.280 Did you think, well, if he comes at me, how 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:03.440 am I going to protect myself? 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:05.560 I didn't even think like that. 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:09.280 But just in case. Greg stands in the dark, away 0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:12.840 from his fire in the woods, watching for movement. He 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:15.720 sees none. Between when you got to that spot and 0:19:15.800 --> 0:19:18.560 when you left the next day. Do you recall seeing 0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:20.160 or hearing any vehicles pass by? 0:19:21.960 --> 0:19:23.760