WEBVTT - Short Stuff: Mary Had A Little Lamb

0:00:04.160 --> 0:00:07.280
<v Speaker 1>Hey, welcome to short stuff. I'm Josh. There's chuck and

0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:10.479
<v Speaker 1>this is short stuff when we are talking about a

0:00:10.560 --> 0:00:14.560
<v Speaker 1>little nursery rhyme pretty adorable in its nature that you

0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:17.880
<v Speaker 1>may have heard of before. It's called Mary had a

0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:23.040
<v Speaker 1>little lamb. Wait a minute, was was this lamb's fleece

0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:25.520
<v Speaker 1>as white as snow? It was? And there was something

0:00:25.520 --> 0:00:29.200
<v Speaker 1>remarkable about it, and that wherever Mary went, the lamb

0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:32.400
<v Speaker 1>went as well. It sounds like a stalker to me

0:00:33.040 --> 0:00:36.040
<v Speaker 1>a little bit. So this is pretty interesting and that

0:00:36.320 --> 0:00:39.520
<v Speaker 1>this is controversial. I mean this cute little nursery rhyme

0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:43.240
<v Speaker 1>that every English speaking kid on the planet has heard

0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:46.479
<v Speaker 1>at one time or another, especially if you're raised in America.

0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:51.839
<v Speaker 1>Um may have had Number one a real life origin

0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:55.520
<v Speaker 1>and number two. There are two towns in Massachusetts and

0:00:55.560 --> 0:00:59.880
<v Speaker 1>New Hampshire where the local historical societies will fight each

0:00:59.880 --> 0:01:02.720
<v Speaker 1>other with bike chains and brass knuckles if they run

0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:06.120
<v Speaker 1>into one another in public. Yeah, this is really interesting.

0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:09.280
<v Speaker 1>In Sterling, Massachusetts, if you go, you're going to see

0:01:09.280 --> 0:01:13.960
<v Speaker 1>a little copper statue of a little lamb and it's

0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:18.160
<v Speaker 1>um Mary saw yours little lamb, specifically, which she brought

0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:21.640
<v Speaker 1>to school in eighteen fifteen. She was a little girl

0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:24.560
<v Speaker 1>who uh, and this I guess we should say allegedly

0:01:24.600 --> 0:01:27.680
<v Speaker 1>for all this stuff, because there everyone's saying that each

0:01:27.680 --> 0:01:32.000
<v Speaker 1>other is wrong. So allegedly, Mary say this little lamb

0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:35.360
<v Speaker 1>nursed it back to health overnight, and over a few

0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:37.920
<v Speaker 1>days the lamb got much better. And then she was

0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:39.800
<v Speaker 1>going to go to school one day, and her brother

0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:43.200
<v Speaker 1>Nat said, won't you bring that lamb to school since

0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:47.120
<v Speaker 1>you love it so much? And she did bring the

0:01:47.200 --> 0:01:50.720
<v Speaker 1>lamb to school, hiding it in a basket under her chair,

0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:53.760
<v Speaker 1>And at one point she stands up to take part

0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:58.960
<v Speaker 1>in a recitation lesson and the lamb bleats. The teacher laughs.

0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:04.720
<v Speaker 1>She takes a lamb outside and kills it. No, just

0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:06.840
<v Speaker 1>takes a lamb outside and stores it in the shed.

0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:09.160
<v Speaker 1>But this caught the idea of a guy named or

0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:12.600
<v Speaker 1>the eye of a guy named John roll Stone. Yeah,

0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:15.160
<v Speaker 1>he was an older boy who I guess was visiting

0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:17.800
<v Speaker 1>the schoolhouse where all this took place that day. He

0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:21.080
<v Speaker 1>was on his way off to Harvard, and he died

0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:27.400
<v Speaker 1>shortly after of tuberculosis. But before that he wrote a

0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:31.799
<v Speaker 1>poem through several lines, just basically what everybody knows from

0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:35.640
<v Speaker 1>Mary had a little lamb. Um. Supposedly that night he

0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:38.480
<v Speaker 1>was so taken by this thing, by this event, came

0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:41.080
<v Speaker 1>back the next day on horseback and handed Mary the

0:02:41.160 --> 0:02:44.160
<v Speaker 1>little poem he wrote for her. And Mary Sawyer went

0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:47.040
<v Speaker 1>on for the rest of her life as Mary the

0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:49.840
<v Speaker 1>girl with the little lamb that she'd nurse back to health.

0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:53.760
<v Speaker 1>And these the source of the famous nursery rhyme Mary

0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:56.639
<v Speaker 1>had a little lamb. Yeah, And it's important to note

0:02:56.639 --> 0:03:00.840
<v Speaker 1>that he wrote but three stanzas of that poem. And

0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:03.880
<v Speaker 1>I think he was just thought it was cute. I

0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:06.600
<v Speaker 1>think it's an adorable story that not only did she

0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:08.760
<v Speaker 1>nurse this little lamb and take it to school, but this,

0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:13.000
<v Speaker 1>you know, rising freshman at Harvard, was so smitten with

0:03:13.040 --> 0:03:14.840
<v Speaker 1>this whole thing on his little visit to the school

0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:18.079
<v Speaker 1>that he wrote a poem about it. That's right, it's adorable.

0:03:18.240 --> 0:03:21.840
<v Speaker 1>Then he died of tuberculosis later that year. Point that

0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:26.359
<v Speaker 1>out again and so he um he So John Rawlstone

0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:30.480
<v Speaker 1>and Mary Sawyer are the source of the inspiration and

0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:34.320
<v Speaker 1>the basis of that nursery roome. Mary had a little lamb.

0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:38.240
<v Speaker 1>As far as Sterling, Massachusetts is concerned. But if you

0:03:38.960 --> 0:03:42.000
<v Speaker 1>uh drive a little further north, about ninety miles north

0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:44.840
<v Speaker 1>into New Hampshire, southwest New Hampshire, you come across the

0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:48.000
<v Speaker 1>town of Newport, UM, you will get a totally different

0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:52.920
<v Speaker 1>story that their their position is basically that Mary Sawyer

0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:55.320
<v Speaker 1>was a lying old lady who lied her whole life

0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:57.880
<v Speaker 1>and made up this fantastic tale, and that it was

0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:02.480
<v Speaker 1>really Sarah Joseph Hale, who was a native of Newport,

0:04:02.800 --> 0:04:06.440
<v Speaker 1>New Hampshire, UM, who was very famous for setting up

0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:10.240
<v Speaker 1>the first Thanksgiving in the United States, UM, like as

0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:13.080
<v Speaker 1>a as a national holiday. She's the one that made

0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:16.480
<v Speaker 1>that happen. UM. That she's the one who wrote Mary

0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:20.040
<v Speaker 1>had a little lamb, Right, And I think we should

0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:22.640
<v Speaker 1>take a break. Uh. And before we do that, I

0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:25.480
<v Speaker 1>want to point out that Josh did not misspeak. Her

0:04:25.480 --> 0:04:30.719
<v Speaker 1>middle name was Josepha and not Joseph or Joseph. Yeah,

0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:32.840
<v Speaker 1>it just sounded a little funny and people might think,

0:04:32.839 --> 0:04:35.280
<v Speaker 1>why did Josh spice that one up? But a little

0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:38.599
<v Speaker 1>mustard on. So we'll come back and explain more about

0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:41.479
<v Speaker 1>her story and where Henry Ford figures in right after this.

0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:07.240
<v Speaker 1>All right, So, Sarah Josepha Josepha Hale, I like Josepha

0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:11.280
<v Speaker 1>but I hadn't considered Josepha. That's a good one too.

0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:15.360
<v Speaker 1>That sounds really biblical, Like she she suddenly just grew

0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:19.680
<v Speaker 1>a beard without a mustache, right, you know what I mean? Yes, Like,

0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:22.120
<v Speaker 1>come to me, Josepha and let me put oils on

0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:26.400
<v Speaker 1>your feet. Right, That's exactly what I was thinking. Weird.

0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:32.640
<v Speaker 1>Remember what congressman was it that literally anointed? It was Ashcroft?

0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:36.279
<v Speaker 1>I think, wasn't it? Was it? Yeah, what a bizarre

0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:38.600
<v Speaker 1>time it was. I think it was. It was Ashcroft.

0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:41.159
<v Speaker 1>You're totally right. I think he also sang some weird

0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:44.520
<v Speaker 1>patriotic song about the eagle flying high around the same

0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:47.360
<v Speaker 1>time he got some bad press. Everybody was like, wow,

0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:50.120
<v Speaker 1>you're bonkers, buddy, oh man, I missed that guy. He

0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:54.800
<v Speaker 1>was fun fund for the news cycle. He really was, alright.

0:05:54.839 --> 0:05:59.160
<v Speaker 1>So Sarah Josepha Hale moved to Boston in eight She

0:05:59.240 --> 0:06:02.039
<v Speaker 1>was a poet and a writer, and she was actually

0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:04.520
<v Speaker 1>the editor of the very first women's magazine in the

0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:09.080
<v Speaker 1>US called Gotti's Ladies Book. And it was here in

0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:11.400
<v Speaker 1>Boston that she met a man named Lowell Mason, who

0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:14.480
<v Speaker 1>was a musician and composer, who said, you know what

0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:18.320
<v Speaker 1>if we get some of these poems and set them

0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:21.480
<v Speaker 1>to music. They would be called songs, and we can

0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:24.919
<v Speaker 1>use these in schools to make a little kid's good

0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:30.719
<v Speaker 1>moral kids. When I think of Lowell Um, this kind

0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:36.320
<v Speaker 1>of folk musician, children's music study proponent guy. Have you

0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:40.320
<v Speaker 1>ever seen that Mr. Show where David Crosses, like the

0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:43.599
<v Speaker 1>the guy who sculpted the little the little body that

0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:47.640
<v Speaker 1>he moves from Appalachian folk art. That guy, That's who

0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:50.120
<v Speaker 1>I think of when I think of this guy, you know,

0:06:50.320 --> 0:06:53.039
<v Speaker 1>just kind of weird and hapless and like out of

0:06:53.080 --> 0:06:57.320
<v Speaker 1>it and um, like his whole focus is learning to

0:06:56.960 --> 0:07:00.240
<v Speaker 1>to to get music into schools for children and just

0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:03.240
<v Speaker 1>I don't know why, but it's really stuck in there.

0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:07.359
<v Speaker 1>You know. Our buddy Scott Ackerman wrote for Mr. Show.

0:07:08.200 --> 0:07:10.640
<v Speaker 1>It was kind of his entree into the entertainment industry.

0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:13.800
<v Speaker 1>And he does, yeah, he does a spot on impression

0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:17.360
<v Speaker 1>of Bob Odenkirk. Oh yeah, Oh it's great. I gotta

0:07:17.400 --> 0:07:22.280
<v Speaker 1>see that. It's very funny. Alright, So Mason and Hale

0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:26.360
<v Speaker 1>are writing uh songs together. They put fifteen poems to

0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:30.880
<v Speaker 1>music called Poems for Our Children, and uh, we should

0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:33.200
<v Speaker 1>point out that the original tune that they wrote for

0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:35.720
<v Speaker 1>her version of Mary had a Little Lamb was not

0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:38.920
<v Speaker 1>the familiar melody that we know that came on later.

0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:43.080
<v Speaker 1>I think, yeah, apparently that comes from a British song

0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:48.480
<v Speaker 1>that goes, um, merrily we roll along, roll along, roll

0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:51.840
<v Speaker 1>along merrily, we roll along over the dark blue sea.

0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:57.080
<v Speaker 1>Hey nice, Oh, thank you, thank you. I've practiced pretty

0:07:57.080 --> 0:08:01.239
<v Speaker 1>extensively for it was on key um, I'm a little

0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:03.800
<v Speaker 1>tone deaf, was a little pitchy, but it was fine.

0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:07.880
<v Speaker 1>I'll go with it was fine, No, it was good.

0:08:07.920 --> 0:08:11.200
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, that came on later. The original melody. I

0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:15.040
<v Speaker 1>don't even think we know that, do we No? But

0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:19.640
<v Speaker 1>if you can get your hands on Juvenile Liar leer

0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:23.040
<v Speaker 1>l y r e that that book that it was

0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:27.760
<v Speaker 1>originally in, I think the notes are in there. Okay,

0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:31.640
<v Speaker 1>it sounds like in a Gotta Da Vida, that's your

0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:36.760
<v Speaker 1>go to. So Mary Sawyer going back to her the

0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:40.520
<v Speaker 1>little girl who allegedly actually nurse this little lamb who

0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:43.800
<v Speaker 1>followed her around and stalked her. She said, you know what,

0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:48.760
<v Speaker 1>those first three verses of your poem, miss Hale, is

0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:52.720
<v Speaker 1>exactly like the ones that John roll Stone wrote about

0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:56.000
<v Speaker 1>my true story. What is up with that? Yeah? I

0:08:56.000 --> 0:09:01.760
<v Speaker 1>guess she just thought that somehow, Sarah Josepha Hale Um

0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:06.560
<v Speaker 1>had gotten her hands somehow on this this poem that

0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:09.880
<v Speaker 1>John Rolstone had had written for and just expanded on

0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:14.320
<v Speaker 1>that um. And Sarah Joseph Hale was like, no, that's

0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:16.400
<v Speaker 1>not it at all. I made this whole thing up

0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:19.679
<v Speaker 1>from scratch, using strictly my imagination. I've never heard of

0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:23.680
<v Speaker 1>you or your delightful little story from your childhood about

0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:27.120
<v Speaker 1>the lamb h sounds totally made up by the way, right,

0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:30.680
<v Speaker 1>And so that this was like, so now you had

0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:35.679
<v Speaker 1>two upstanding women, Sarah Joseph Hale, the founder of the

0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:41.120
<v Speaker 1>the American holiday Thanksgiving, and Mary Sawyer, who went on

0:09:41.200 --> 0:09:45.520
<v Speaker 1>to become the matron of her local hospital. We're basically

0:09:45.600 --> 0:09:48.559
<v Speaker 1>saying that one another was lying without saying that one

0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:52.360
<v Speaker 1>another was lying, and two towns like reputations were on

0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:56.520
<v Speaker 1>the line. Yeah, and they they actually, as older ladies,

0:09:56.559 --> 0:09:59.840
<v Speaker 1>signed sworn statements saying that what they were saying was

0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:03.400
<v Speaker 1>true and correct. And uh, it kind of went on

0:10:03.440 --> 0:10:05.679
<v Speaker 1>like this for a little while. And I promised Henry

0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:11.480
<v Speaker 1>Ford and here we're going to deliver, because in automobile

0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:16.320
<v Speaker 1>magnate Henry Ford got involved and was firmly in the

0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:19.880
<v Speaker 1>Mary Sawyer camp. Um. He was just a fan of hers,

0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:23.520
<v Speaker 1>I guess, because he bought the original frame from that

0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:28.400
<v Speaker 1>red schoolhouse and moved it to Sudbury, where he owned

0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:31.480
<v Speaker 1>an inn. And he wrote a book about this, called

0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:34.440
<v Speaker 1>The Story of Mary and her Little Lamb. I find

0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:37.360
<v Speaker 1>that him moving the end to Sudbury confuses this story

0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:41.240
<v Speaker 1>tremendously because it just takes two small towns and adds

0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:44.720
<v Speaker 1>a third one unnecessarily if you ask me, sure you know.

0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:48.960
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, Henry Ford wrote a sixty page book just

0:10:49.040 --> 0:10:52.720
<v Speaker 1>basically touting Mary Sawyer's story, much to the chagrin of

0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:57.040
<v Speaker 1>the town of Newport, New Hampshire and its historical society. UM.

0:10:57.120 --> 0:10:59.920
<v Speaker 1>And to this day they will say, like Henry Ford

0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:02.840
<v Speaker 1>made a great car. Um. I don't know how he

0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:05.760
<v Speaker 1>would be really as in a story, and so you know,

0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:08.680
<v Speaker 1>his opinion doesn't count for much. What I want to

0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:12.719
<v Speaker 1>know is what was on the other fifty six pages, right?

0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:16.760
<v Speaker 1>You know, couldn't have taken more than four to tell

0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:19.040
<v Speaker 1>this little story. No, I know, I don't know what

0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:21.520
<v Speaker 1>he he talked about. And I think my my joke

0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:23.720
<v Speaker 1>bone is broken because I can't come up with anything

0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:28.559
<v Speaker 1>stupid to add, well, it depends on There are very

0:11:28.600 --> 0:11:30.920
<v Speaker 1>much two camps here and to this day, people that

0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:34.560
<v Speaker 1>defend Hale, I mean people that defense Sawyers are like,

0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:36.360
<v Speaker 1>you know, this is a sweet, sweet girl who had

0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:38.640
<v Speaker 1>the sweet story. Why would she make this up and

0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:41.640
<v Speaker 1>tell it her whole life? And Hail defenders were like, well,

0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:45.040
<v Speaker 1>why would she just conjure up this poem out of

0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:46.840
<v Speaker 1>thin air? Or I mean, why would she copy it

0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:50.400
<v Speaker 1>and claim she conjured it from thin air? Because they like,

0:11:50.440 --> 0:11:52.760
<v Speaker 1>she wouldn't have even known about this poem? Yeah, she

0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:54.800
<v Speaker 1>just from what I can tell, she doesn't seem like

0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:57.280
<v Speaker 1>the type who would have committed plagiarism and then stuck

0:11:57.320 --> 0:12:00.719
<v Speaker 1>to the lie her entire life. Yeah, so mystery. It's

0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:03.520
<v Speaker 1>a mystery, and even Henry Ford couldn't solve it. But

0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:06.160
<v Speaker 1>to end this one because we don't really have a

0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:10.760
<v Speaker 1>resolution to it. There is um Like the the full

0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:15.520
<v Speaker 1>poem by Sarah Joseph Hale. It ends pretty cutely because

0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:19.080
<v Speaker 1>she's talking about how um everyone wanted to know why

0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:22.800
<v Speaker 1>the lamb loved Mary so much, and in the poem

0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:25.400
<v Speaker 1>it says, well, it's because Mary loves the lamb back

0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:28.880
<v Speaker 1>and then it ends with and you, each gentle animal,

0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:33.240
<v Speaker 1>and confidence may bind and make them follow at your will,

0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:36.240
<v Speaker 1>if only you are kind. And then a sweet thing

0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:38.800
<v Speaker 1>to teach little kids be kind of animals, and you

0:12:38.800 --> 0:12:42.040
<v Speaker 1>can basically be the boss of them. Yes, and you

0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:44.800
<v Speaker 1>will never be a serial killer. That's right, because you're

0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:48.160
<v Speaker 1>kind to them rather than tortures of them. That's right. Well,

0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:54.400
<v Speaker 1>that's it for short stuff. Everybody, we're out. Stuff you

0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:56.760
<v Speaker 1>should know is a production of iHeart Radios. How stuff

0:12:56.800 --> 0:12:59.400
<v Speaker 1>works for more podcasts for my heart Radio because at

0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:02.280
<v Speaker 1>the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts are wherever you listen

0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:09.960
<v Speaker 1>to your favorite shows. H m hm