Speaker 1: I was in a coma when so much was happening
Speaker 1: about my life and my story was spreading around the world.
Speaker 1: I remember my last day of school in Pakistan. I
Speaker 1: was fifteen years old. I was hoping for the next
Speaker 1: day to be a normal day, and then something terrible
Speaker 1: happened and I wake up in a hospital in Birmingham
Speaker 1: in the UK, and I find myself on a hospital bed,
Speaker 1: recovering from injuries, going through severe pains, trying to figure
Speaker 1: out what had happened. And you know, I still had
Speaker 1: not even seen what was out there on the media
Speaker 1: about me.
Speaker 2: The number one health and wellness podcast Ja Shetty Jay
Speaker 2: Sheddy only shed Malala, Welcome to On Purpose.
Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker 2: I'm so grateful because I've wanted you on the show
Speaker 2: for so many years. And I'm actually really, really glad
Speaker 2: that it didn't happen before this book, because I don't
Speaker 2: think I would have really understood what you were going through,
Speaker 2: who you are, who you're trying to become. And I
Speaker 2: feel this book is almost like your reintroduction to the world,
Speaker 2: and so I got to get a sense of the
Speaker 2: real you. But I'm so grateful thank you for the opportunity.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. It's truly an honor to be
Speaker 1: on your podcast. And I cannot agree more with you
Speaker 1: on this. Writing a book like this is like writing
Speaker 1: a journal, and you want to share that journal with
Speaker 1: people out there, hoping that it could help somebody out
Speaker 1: there who might be in the same place as you,
Speaker 1: might be feeling lost, may not be able to find
Speaker 1: a way out. So I wrote this book because I
Speaker 1: once needed a book like this when I was going
Speaker 1: through difficult times. So my hope is that it helps
Speaker 1: people find their way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting you say that because in one sense,
Speaker 2: your journey is unrelatable because you've seen things that most
Speaker 2: people have not seen. And then at the same time,
Speaker 2: when I was reading the book, I'd agree with you.
Speaker 2: There's so much relatability to it in how we're seeing,
Speaker 2: how we're heard, how we're understood, how people project their
Speaker 2: beliefs and opinions and expectations onto us. And so I
Speaker 2: wanted to start off by asking you that you open
Speaker 2: the book with I'll never know who I was supposed
Speaker 2: to be, because the world decided who you were before
Speaker 2: you got to become Talk to me about how that
Speaker 2: felt the first time you understood that.
Speaker 1: I was in a coma when so much was happening
Speaker 1: about my life and my story was spreading around the world.
Speaker 1: I remember my last day of school in Pakistan, fifteen
Speaker 1: years old. I was hoping for the next day to
Speaker 1: be a normal day, and then something terrible happened and
Speaker 1: I wake up in a hospital in Birmingham in the UK,
Speaker 1: and I find myself on a hospital bed, recovering from injuries,
Speaker 1: going through severe pains, trying to figure out what had happened.
Speaker 1: And you know, I still had not even seen what
Speaker 1: was out there on the media about me. You know,
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, what does this new life mean?
Speaker 1: Do I take on this new journey in a new
Speaker 1: place and how do I recover from the trauma that
Speaker 1: I have faced. I knew that the only way I
Speaker 1: can actually have some hope in life is by dedicating
Speaker 1: my life to girls education. So I took on this
Speaker 1: journey to become a girls education activist. I was defined
Speaker 1: as a brave, courageous activist. You know, when I learned
Speaker 1: more about how I was described in the world, I said, Okay, wow, maybe, okay,
Speaker 1: this is what it means when you survive a terrorist attack.
Speaker 1: This is how you're supposed to live your life, and
Speaker 1: and there's not much you can do. You cannot go
Speaker 1: back to the old life. You cannot expect a normal
Speaker 1: life because you are now invited to these big events
Speaker 1: and gatherings and you are receiving awards and you are
Speaker 1: getting titles. You have to live up to it now.
Speaker 1: So I said, Okay, it means I cannot have a
Speaker 1: normal life. I cannot be that normal student. I cannot
Speaker 1: feel the same love or just have that that normal
Speaker 1: life as as a teenager, you know, as a as
Speaker 1: a young woman. So I sort of embraced it. You know,
Speaker 1: you sort of internalize it, and you embrace it whatever
Speaker 1: people say about you and you then you begin to
Speaker 1: live up to that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's it's so and like I said,
Speaker 2: it's so interesting because what you experienced, and we'll get
Speaker 2: to that is so different and distant from the experience.
Speaker 2: Yet when you say those words of I felt like
Speaker 2: I had to live up to how people saw me.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think that's a very human thing that we all experience,
Speaker 2: except yours was on the world stage.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's important to share that. We begin to internalize it.
Speaker 1: I started saying that it's a sense of responsibility that
Speaker 1: I feel because I want myself to live up to
Speaker 1: this idea of being a brave and courageous activist advocating
Speaker 1: for girls around the world. I cannot be scared, I
Speaker 1: cannot have fear, and I need to stay committed to
Speaker 1: making a change happen. And at the same time, like
Speaker 1: I'm fifteen years old, I have to be studying at
Speaker 1: the same time, I have to learn so much and
Speaker 1: and try to be a normal student, and then also
Speaker 1: maintain like writing a book and giving speeches and you know,
Speaker 1: like receiving a Nobel Peace Prize at age seventeen. I
Speaker 1: remember I was still in my school and that morning
Speaker 1: my team asked me if I wanted to stay back
Speaker 1: and prepare a media statement just in case. And I said,
Speaker 1: are you guys crazy? Do you think a school student
Speaker 1: should be receiving a Nobel Peace Prize? So I went
Speaker 1: to my school. I was in my chemistry class. My
Speaker 1: school's deputy head teacher walked in and called me outside
Speaker 1: and informed me that I had won the Nobel Peace Prize.
Speaker 1: I was like shocked. I said thank you to her.
Speaker 1: I gave short remarks to everybody in the school to
Speaker 1: just thank them and talk about the importance of education.
Speaker 1: Then I went back to like my physics class, and
Speaker 1: I completed my school. Actually, I said, I'm not going
Speaker 1: to do any interviews or anything. I'm going to finish
Speaker 1: my school. You know, that day, I felt that so
Speaker 1: many like students sort of looked at me. And I
Speaker 1: felt really noticed that day because in this new school,
Speaker 1: I was a very quiet person, and I thought, you know,
Speaker 1: I thought like everybody saw me as an activist and
Speaker 1: nobody really wanted to be friends with me. But the
Speaker 1: next day, when everything was back to normal, I felt
Speaker 1: that most people turned their faces away and it just
Speaker 1: went back to like that normal day. Were I just
Speaker 1: I just you know, wanted to have I wanted to
Speaker 1: have friends, and it, you know, wasn't there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you do you feel like that made you disconnect
Speaker 2: and distant from your friends and people around you, Like,
Speaker 2: how did it affect you? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I don't really, you know, blame the students at that school.
Speaker 1: It was an all girls school. It was in a
Speaker 1: completely new country now, different language, different culture. A lot
Speaker 1: of the girls had already made friends. So I was
Speaker 1: a late comer and they had heard about me in
Speaker 1: the news. They had heard the story, and I think
Speaker 1: they were feeling awkward in how to approach me. And
Speaker 1: at the same time, I was also so nervous in
Speaker 1: starting a conversation. And I actually missed my old life.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to be the girl I was in Pakistan, mischievous,
Speaker 1: exploring new things, adventurous, chatting with friend all the time
Speaker 1: and like copying or like mimicking people's accents and talking about,
Speaker 1: like you know, gossip and all of those things. And
Speaker 1: I just thought, maybe, like maybe that's that part of
Speaker 1: my life is is gone.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I love the part where you say they made
Speaker 2: me into a mythical heroine. Sometimes the absurdity of it
Speaker 2: made me laugh. You said, growing up in Mingora, I
Speaker 2: was a troublemaker, even on my best day. I was
Speaker 2: not the reticence saint that everyone now claimed I was.
Speaker 2: I know, I was laughing when I read it, but
Speaker 2: then feeling sad because yeah, that has real consequences for you.
Speaker 2: But it almost made me laugh and I was like,
Speaker 2: oh wow, like Milala, like the Malala sees herself as
Speaker 2: a mischievous, you know, funny person who's you know, a
Speaker 2: trouble maker. Yeah, Like, tell me about that version of you,
Speaker 2: Like take us back to that version of you.
Speaker 1: In Pakistan, I was, you know, still exploring who I
Speaker 1: was as a person, and in school, I was very active.
Speaker 1: I wanted to participate in every competition. I was giving
Speaker 1: speeches and doing debates, and I was also like trying
Speaker 1: to sing. I don't know, like I'm like with a
Speaker 1: terrible voice, also doing that. My friends and I still
Speaker 1: joke about it that, you know, we just love to
Speaker 1: be doing something all the time. Education is a privilege.
Speaker 1: We knew that it's not something that every girl has
Speaker 1: access to. I thought I was lucky that my father
Speaker 1: was so supportive of allowing me to be in school.
Speaker 1: So I valued and treasured every moment at school. And
Speaker 1: you know, hear people complain about being in school and
Speaker 1: they can't wait for it to finish. It was the
Speaker 1: other way around for us. We wanted to stay in
Speaker 1: school for as long as we could. Because when girls
Speaker 1: exposure is limited, and when you live in a patriarchal
Speaker 1: society where you cannot really leave your home, so you know,
Speaker 1: you're supposed to stay inside the four walls of a house,
Speaker 1: so school becomes that place of safety for you where
Speaker 1: you can explore things, but at the same time, like
Speaker 1: you know you are you are in a safe place,
Speaker 1: but you can explore the things that you love and enjoy.
Speaker 1: So we we loved our time in school, and I
Speaker 1: just wish that I could have all of that in
Speaker 1: the UK as well, in this new school. And somehow
Speaker 1: it was very challenging to like make it happen. I
Speaker 1: was trying house like participating in almost everything that I could.
Speaker 1: I was signing up for like a two hundred meter race,
Speaker 1: and then I was trying to be part of the
Speaker 1: debating society because I wanted to make friends, not that
Speaker 1: I wanted to add more to my personal statement or
Speaker 1: wanted to be an excellent student, like truly, deeply, all
Speaker 1: I wanted was to get an opportunity where I could
Speaker 1: like talk to friends.
Speaker 2: Back in Pakistan. When you were saying that you already
Speaker 2: had this gratitude to be an education, how did that
Speaker 2: develop at such a young age, because I feel that's
Speaker 2: often what develops with perspective. How did you have it
Speaker 2: at such an early age to recognize the value of education.
Speaker 2: What did you see women go through or what had
Speaker 2: you seen that inspired you to want to value education.
Speaker 1: The scenario of a girl without an education was not
Speaker 1: something that we had to imagine. We were actually seeing
Speaker 1: it right in front of our eyes. We had the
Speaker 1: stories of our aunts, of our mothers, of our cousins,
Speaker 1: of our siblings, who without an education, missed out on
Speaker 1: the opportunity to have a future that they chose. My
Speaker 1: own mother could not learn. It was very uncommon in
Speaker 1: the village for a girl to be even enrolled into school.
Speaker 1: So when she was admitted into a primary school and
Speaker 1: she was the only girl in that classroom, she sold
Speaker 1: her books because she said, there's no point no other
Speaker 1: girl is going to a school, and she got some
Speaker 1: candies in return. She never saw a classroom after that.
Speaker 1: It was then years later, when you know, when she
Speaker 1: finally was married to my dad, and my dad has
Speaker 1: been very supportive of like women's rights and girls' education,
Speaker 1: she started relearning again. So when I, you know, when
Speaker 1: I was seeing how women and girls are asking for
Speaker 1: one thing, and that is the right to learn, I
Speaker 1: knew that it was truly a privilege to be in school.
Speaker 1: But I think, you know, the moment when I realized
Speaker 1: that this was not something that girls can access so
Speaker 1: easily and it can be taken away. Was when the
Speaker 1: Taliban took over.
Speaker 2: What was different about your father's experience that made him
Speaker 2: so aware of this was what was different about his
Speaker 2: upbringing or.
Speaker 1: You know, it's really hard to answer because so my
Speaker 1: dad and his brother both received their education while their
Speaker 1: five sisters could not. And my dad took a different
Speaker 1: commitment that when he has a daughter, he will educate her,
Speaker 1: while his brother did not do the same. So, you know,
Speaker 1: you could be in this in the exact same environment
Speaker 1: and you can read and understand it very differently than
Speaker 1: the other person, and you can make different decisions. So
Speaker 1: for my dad, it was this simple dream where he
Speaker 1: wanted girls to have exactly the same rights as voice,
Speaker 1: and he always questioned why his sisters could not be
Speaker 1: in school while he could be. And he knew that
Speaker 1: for things to change for women and girls, men have
Speaker 1: to change and do better. So he became a feminist
Speaker 1: father before he had even heard the feminism. And he
Speaker 1: usually says that don't ask me what I did, but
Speaker 1: ask me what I did not do. I did not
Speaker 1: clip her wings. So he believes in the autonomy, in
Speaker 1: the in the power of women and girls. He says, like,
Speaker 1: we don't need to do anything, We just need to
Speaker 1: take a step back and give them space. So my
Speaker 1: father was an amazing father. I consider myself lucky and
Speaker 1: I remind people that my story is not unique. So
Speaker 1: many other girls in my hometown wanted to speak out
Speaker 1: against the Taliban oppression for their right to education, but
Speaker 1: their brothers or their fathers stop them. The only thing
Speaker 1: that's different in my story is that my father did
Speaker 1: not stop me.
Speaker 2: Well, what a beautiful relationship you have and a gratitude
Speaker 2: that you have for him and incredible, and I can
Speaker 2: agree with you more. There's it's amazing that even for
Speaker 2: a woman to gain access the education. Sadly that requires
Speaker 2: the permission of a man that space.
Speaker 1: Yes, and it's you know, like it is irritating, You're
Speaker 1: like why it is that way, but it is a
Speaker 1: reality if you live in a patriarchal society. We have
Speaker 1: to acknowledge that men are in power, they have influence,
Speaker 1: so we have to be engaging them as well. And
Speaker 1: it takes a lot of time to change things. Right now,
Speaker 1: when I look at our community in Pakistan, in the
Speaker 1: village that my parents are from, a lot of things
Speaker 1: are changing now because when a few fathers step up
Speaker 1: and they really redefine what it means to be a
Speaker 1: good father, other fathers follow their footsteps. And my father
Speaker 1: is spreading this message that true honor lies in standing
Speaker 1: up for women and girls when their rights are taken away.
Speaker 1: And you can be fulfilling your role as a father
Speaker 1: when you empower your daughters when they have equal rights,
Speaker 1: when they fulfill their dreams, not that you marry them off,
Speaker 1: like that's not true fatherhood. You give them the education
Speaker 1: so they choose their future for themselves.
Speaker 2: Absolutely well said, it's before I look forward to me
Speaker 2: and your dad one day too.
Speaker 1: You'd love him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it's amazing. It's truly incredible. I can't imagine
Speaker 2: how was it challenging for him as well to do that,
Speaker 2: and for the men in very challenging, Like I can't
Speaker 2: imagine the judgment and the kind of criticism.
Speaker 1: Yes, I mean, I remember one time I was supposed
Speaker 1: to speak at this press conference and my male cousin
Speaker 1: was asked to help me get to the press conference.
Speaker 1: And I was wearing a headscarf but I was not
Speaker 1: covering my face. So my cousin just was like really
Speaker 1: like irritated by that, because most women are expected to
Speaker 1: cover their faces when they're in public, especially when they
Speaker 1: like reach adulthood. But I was still like very little,
Speaker 1: and I just did not want to cover my face.
Speaker 1: And I remember that cousin just going to my dad
Speaker 1: and telling him that or Malala should like cover her face,
Speaker 1: and it's just, you know, such a shame to the
Speaker 1: family's name. And my dad told him to mind his
Speaker 1: own business and told him to like just basically like,
Speaker 1: it's none of your business what she does. It's her
Speaker 1: choice whatever she wants to wear. So in those moments,
Speaker 1: you know, you do reflect and wonder what if your
Speaker 1: dad had not spoken out for you, things would have
Speaker 1: been different. So it makes a huge difference when people
Speaker 1: become your allies and they stand up for you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, at that time, what were your dreams post education? Like,
Speaker 2: what were your aspirations before you became the emblem and
Speaker 2: the symbol that you speak about. What were you dreaming of?
Speaker 2: What was your hope to do with your education that
Speaker 2: you were so grateful to receive.
Speaker 1: I mean I had many dreams. I was, you know,
Speaker 1: exploring everything. Initially, I just wanted to be a car mechanic.
Speaker 1: Then I said, okay, let's be a doctor, because everybody
Speaker 1: was dreaming to be a doctor or engineer. But when
Speaker 1: the Taliban took over our hometown and they banned girls education,
Speaker 1: they restricted women from movement outside their houses, and they
Speaker 1: were targeting and killing people if they're dared to speak out.
Speaker 1: So at that time, I was questioning what our leaders
Speaker 1: were doing for us. So I said, okay, you know what,
Speaker 1: I'll become the prime minister and I will fix all
Speaker 1: the problems in the world. Of course, that dream of
Speaker 1: mind changed because I realized that if you look at
Speaker 1: the world politics, people in leadership positions are rather disappointing
Speaker 1: us by not addressing these injustices and these deep rooted problems. So,
Speaker 1: of course my dreams have changed throughout life. But at
Speaker 1: the time, I just wanted a different reality, a different
Speaker 1: future for us. I simply wanted girls to be able
Speaker 1: to go to school, to not be stopped, to not
Speaker 1: be threatened, to not be harmed, to not be killed,
Speaker 1: to learn, and to follow their dreams. I did not
Speaker 1: want people to pick up their guns and target a
Speaker 1: girl simply because she wants to be in school and
Speaker 1: she wants to follow her dreams. But this is a reality,
Speaker 1: like you know, for women and girls to exist and
Speaker 1: to have equal opportunities or just to have a life
Speaker 1: in dignity as a human, they're threatened for that. It's
Speaker 1: really hard to process, but this is a reality like
Speaker 1: so many many women have experienced or are still living through.
Speaker 2: When the Taliban takes over your town, what does that
Speaker 2: actually look like and what does that mean for people
Speaker 2: who have no idea what that actually looks like, and
Speaker 2: what that means for your rights and what that means
Speaker 2: for general living.
Speaker 1: I mean, everything changed when the Taliban took over. Initially
Speaker 1: they were just giving religious sermons about you know, the religion,
Speaker 1: and then quickly they started announcing these restrictions on women
Speaker 1: and girls. That a woman cannot go to a market,
Speaker 1: she cannot do a job. They were threatening people who
Speaker 1: were artists, like painters or dancers or musicians. They said,
Speaker 1: you know, all of this form of art is also prohibited.
Speaker 1: And then they started like attacking people for it. They
Speaker 1: would announce somebody's name that you know, this person dared
Speaker 1: to disobey our rules and and uh, and then they
Speaker 1: were like they would kill them. It was terrifying time
Speaker 1: and then it affected like me directly, and it affected
Speaker 1: guls directly when the Taliban announced that no Gul will
Speaker 1: be allowed to be in school. And I remember the
Speaker 1: day when the band was imposed and I woke up
Speaker 1: and I just couldn't go to school anymore because the
Speaker 1: Taliban would be on the roads on the streets, and
Speaker 1: and you know, you could not be seen with a
Speaker 1: with a backpack or in your school uniform. And I
Speaker 1: remember the morning when my brothers would pack their school
Speaker 1: bags and go off while I had to stay behind
Speaker 1: my I think then like a few weeks later, some
Speaker 1: of our friends sort of came out with this idea
Speaker 1: that why don't we just go in our home clothes
Speaker 1: and like wear a long hefty scarf basically and like
Speaker 1: hide our bag and still like make it to school.
Speaker 1: So we also like went to school secretly. But it
Speaker 1: was I was like, you know, why we should not
Speaker 1: be living in a world where girls have to hide
Speaker 1: that their learning. It should be right that every girl
Speaker 1: should be freely receiving.
Speaker 2: Where did the innovative idea of starting a blog come
Speaker 2: from to write about these things that you started to
Speaker 2: document and reference and stand up for, Like, where did
Speaker 2: that impetus come from for you to say, I'm actually
Speaker 2: going to write about these things. I'm actually going to
Speaker 2: document what's happening.
Speaker 1: You know, when these horrible things are happening and you
Speaker 1: are living under a terrorism, you just want somebody to know.
Speaker 1: It feels like the world is silent and nobody's looking
Speaker 1: towards you. So, you know, my father and I were
Speaker 1: finding opportunities where we can raise awareness, bring attention to
Speaker 1: what was happening, because if you don't bring attention, then
Speaker 1: there's just lack of action as well. So I was
Speaker 1: speaking at the local press conferences, we were doing peace walks,
Speaker 1: we spoke to the local media, and then these international
Speaker 1: platforms also reached out. So the BBC blog, you know,
Speaker 1: the BBC journalist approached my dad and said that they
Speaker 1: wanted a student to share about their life under the Taliban.
Speaker 1: So my dad actually asked another gun at the school,
Speaker 1: and you know, she shared her blog for one day
Speaker 1: and then her father came the next day and said
Speaker 1: he could he can't allow his daughter to share her blog.
Speaker 1: So when I heard that, I went to my dad
Speaker 1: and I said, Dad, like, I want I want to
Speaker 1: write my blog. I want to share my story. So
Speaker 1: my dad said, okay, like, if you want to do it,
Speaker 1: I'll support you. So I started blogging about my life.
Speaker 1: I talked about, you know, the last days of school
Speaker 1: and then what life was like under the Taliban education ban.
Speaker 1: I wanted the world to know what was happening. And
Speaker 1: I believe that change does not happen itself. Things will
Speaker 1: remain as they are if we're waiting for somebody else
Speaker 1: to come and save us. So I knew that I
Speaker 1: need to do my part as much as I can,
Speaker 1: and if that means telling my story at these conferences,
Speaker 1: at these local platforms to the international media, I will
Speaker 1: do that. My father was an activist, so I was
Speaker 1: just simply following his footsteps, and we both became this,
Speaker 1: these activists doing the work together.
Speaker 2: I mean that was from such an early age. That
Speaker 2: was like eleven years old, eleven years old, eleven years
Speaker 2: old for you to start becoming an activist. And that's
Speaker 2: what's so interesting about is I read the book that
Speaker 2: you were an activist before the event, and we'll talk
Speaker 2: about it, but you're already an act is from such
Speaker 2: a young age, it almost feels like you were meant
Speaker 2: to be an activist. But there's so much lost when
Speaker 2: it becomes your entire identity, yeah, rather than a part
Speaker 2: of your identity.
Speaker 1: Basically, yes, I became an activist at a young age,
Speaker 1: but this is not what I had chosen for myself.
Speaker 1: It was the circumstances that made me an activist. I mean,
Speaker 1: which girl at eleven years old want to be an activist?
Speaker 1: But it's only when your school is closed, that's when
Speaker 1: you want to speak out because you want to be
Speaker 1: back in school. That was my dream. I wanted girls
Speaker 1: in my hometown to be in school. I wanted myself
Speaker 1: to continue my education. We knew that a future without
Speaker 1: an education is dark. We had seen stories of women
Speaker 1: who lost their dreams because they were not being able
Speaker 1: to go to school. So simply it was a dream
Speaker 1: to have a future with equal opportunities. We can stand
Speaker 1: on our own two feet, we can make a living
Speaker 1: for our cells, we can know about our rights, we
Speaker 1: can protect our rights. And so education was a pathway.
Speaker 1: And when you are living in a patriarchal society, education
Speaker 1: becomes the only pathway.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's amazing because you say that the situation
Speaker 2: made you that way, But obviously there are other people
Speaker 2: turning down the activism. Yeah, you felt like compelled to
Speaker 2: stand up for your fellow friends and fellow girls.
Speaker 1: I thought, if I were to choose between two options,
Speaker 1: whether to live under the Taliban and be silent, or
Speaker 1: if it was you know, just to speak out and
Speaker 1: even if it mean a thread from the Taliban but
Speaker 1: some change could happen, I would choose the latter because
Speaker 1: I wanted to see things change, because I wanted simply
Speaker 1: a different future for ourselves. And it's really hard to tell,
Speaker 1: you know, if it was the voice of like one
Speaker 1: activist who changed something or not. Like so many people
Speaker 1: were involved. You know, there was a whole civil society
Speaker 1: who were advocating for bringing peace and for like you know,
Speaker 1: like speaking against the Taliban's restrictions. Then this military operation
Speaker 1: was done, we returned to we became internally displaced, and
Speaker 1: then the summer of two thousand and nine, we returned
Speaker 1: to Swath Valley and we restarted our lives. So many
Speaker 1: schools were bombed, so many police stations and different like
Speaker 1: political officials, buildings, and so many things were like damaged.
Speaker 1: There were suicide attacks, people had lost their loved ones.
Speaker 1: So our area, you know, Swath valley, which has been
Speaker 1: known as the as a place of tourism and it's
Speaker 1: known for its beauty and it's called like the Switzerland
Speaker 1: of the East, became like a place of terrorism and
Speaker 1: it was now just like war tone area. So we
Speaker 1: had to then rebuild it. And I knew that it
Speaker 1: was not just groups like the Taliban that we have
Speaker 1: to stand up against, but we also have to talk
Speaker 1: about the mindset, the mentality that still exists. It does
Speaker 1: not have the like a name, it does not necessarily
Speaker 1: is in the shape of an armed group, but the
Speaker 1: ideology is there, and we have to stand up against
Speaker 1: this ideology that do not see women as equal humans
Speaker 1: and that deny women and gulls their rights. So my
Speaker 1: father and I continued our activism, but we just thought
Speaker 1: that the Taliban were gone. But somehow, you know, they
Speaker 1: were still there in the distance. And I yeah, And
Speaker 1: then in twenty twelve, at age fifteen, I was attacked
Speaker 1: by the Taliban.
Speaker 2: Before that, were you worried that you'd be attacked and
Speaker 2: did you fear being attacked when you were being an
Speaker 2: activist through the blog these conferences speaking were you scared
Speaker 2: that that could ever happen and that could possibility with
Speaker 2: that across your mind.
Speaker 1: Yes, I had these thoughts many times, what would happen
Speaker 1: if a Taliban gunman shows up and tries to attack me?
Speaker 1: But I was more worried about my dad. I just
Speaker 1: had this little hope that maybe they would not attack
Speaker 1: a girl. They would not attack you know, a fourteen
Speaker 1: or fifteen year old girl. So yeah, you know, like
Speaker 1: I every night, I would be worried about my father
Speaker 1: more than more than me.
Speaker 2: I mean, even just listening to that, as I'm listening
Speaker 2: to your journey and your life, I'm like, there is
Speaker 2: so much courage and there is so much resilience for
Speaker 2: such a young person to be able to even make
Speaker 2: sense of what is going on, let alone put themselves
Speaker 2: at the center of it. And the fact that you
Speaker 2: were concerned about your father in that moment is so
Speaker 2: heartwarming and at the same time it's it's painstaking because
Speaker 2: it's so much pressure on such a young person to
Speaker 2: take on. It's really incredible in your book, and I
Speaker 2: want to be very sensitive to do with this because
Speaker 2: of the way you write about it. And when I
Speaker 2: was at this point in your book, it really, you know,
Speaker 2: it really took me a second a process it myself,
Speaker 2: and you talked about how you said, my life is
Speaker 2: so happy now and it's hard to look back, and
Speaker 2: I appreciate that. I can't imagine. I can't even come
Speaker 2: close to imagine how hard it is to even reflect
Speaker 2: on being attacked by the Taliban and in the manner
Speaker 2: that it happened. I believe you're on a bus, yes,
Speaker 2: the school bus. So walk me through what you can
Speaker 2: sensitively and mindfully in the best way for you to
Speaker 2: share that experience so people can understand what happened.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So we were on our school bus, and you know,
Speaker 1: I was just hoping i'd get to my home and
Speaker 1: prepare for my next day exams. It would be a
Speaker 1: normal school day the next day. But on the way,
Speaker 1: the Taliban gunman stopped our school bus and one person
Speaker 1: was distracting the driver at the front, and one guy
Speaker 1: showed at the back and asked, who's Malala, and my
Speaker 1: face was uncovered. He immediately started firing bullets. One bullet
Speaker 1: immediately had hit me on the left side of my forehead,
Speaker 1: and two bullets hit the friends who were sitting right
Speaker 1: next to me in their arms and in their hand.
Speaker 1: I do not remember the exact incident, you know, And
Speaker 1: this has been my answer so far. I have like
Speaker 1: many like memories in my head, but I sort of
Speaker 1: have told myself I do not remember it. And I
Speaker 1: was then taken to a hospital and from one hospital
Speaker 1: to then another to then another, and then eventually I
Speaker 1: was moved to the UK for my further treatment. And
Speaker 1: you know, I survived, My friends survived. I started my
Speaker 1: school again in the UK. My friends also or moved
Speaker 1: to the UK and they started their school. So you know,
Speaker 1: when I when I look back, I'm just really grateful that, uh,
Speaker 1: you know that that we're all alive and we completed
Speaker 1: our education. But like everything changed that day, you know,
Speaker 1: like we didn't make it to our homes. It was
Speaker 1: it was sort of a terrible, terrible moment. All I
Speaker 1: remember is the last day of school and then waking
Speaker 1: up in a hospital in Birmingham in the UK and
Speaker 1: just realizing that I have a tube in my neck
Speaker 1: and I can't talk, and I just look around and
Speaker 1: I see these nurses and doctors speaking in English. They
Speaker 1: look very different than like the brown people I had
Speaker 1: seen in Pakistan. And I said, I feel like I'm
Speaker 1: in a different place, and I am sort of writing
Speaker 1: down to them to just tell me where I was
Speaker 1: as a you know, where am I like? What happened
Speaker 1: to me? And I repeatedly asked one question, where's my father?
Speaker 1: And then I would also add, who's going to pay
Speaker 1: for this? I don't have money, so I was worried
Speaker 1: about the medical bill. You know, I think Americans would
Speaker 1: understand where I was coming from, but I just wanted
Speaker 1: to get better and leave the hospital, go back to
Speaker 1: my old life. It took me a while to realize that,
Speaker 1: you know, my life had taken a turn. My parents
Speaker 1: joined me ten days later at the hospital. That was
Speaker 1: the first time I actually cried, because a lot of
Speaker 1: people might think that when I woke up, I might
Speaker 1: have been under like so much and trauma, might have
Speaker 1: been crying day and night. No, I just I wasn't
Speaker 1: feeling normal. The pain is so intense that you just
Speaker 1: forget the normal emotions to process it, the normal reactions.
Speaker 1: So I couldn't even cry. And the first time I
Speaker 1: saw my family when they came back to the when
Speaker 1: they came to the UK, that was the first moment
Speaker 1: I cried, because you know, when you see your family,
Speaker 1: you connect with that normal life that you had before.
Speaker 1: So and then before I even realized, you know, I
Speaker 1: had like a few more surgeries to go through. And
Speaker 1: then you know, they said, okay, we want you to
Speaker 1: do this like interview and we're supposed, you know, we
Speaker 1: want you to give this speech at the un and
Speaker 1: we also have this book offer, so it would be
Speaker 1: good if you can sign the book offer. So, and
Speaker 1: you have to start school as well, because we don't
Speaker 1: know when you can go back, but you should start
Speaker 1: school in the UK. So I joined a new school.
Speaker 1: And this is this like new pathway that my life took.
Speaker 1: To be honest, Like in my heart, I thought this
Speaker 1: is all temporary, Like this is all temporary for now
Speaker 1: because we are going to go back to Pakistan as
Speaker 1: soon as possible and we will have a normal life.
Speaker 1: I just had no idea what was out there and
Speaker 1: what had happened. So, like the first time when I
Speaker 1: learned about the response from like people around the world
Speaker 1: was when this person from the hospital brought a basket
Speaker 1: of cards and letters. And I'm like reading cards and
Speaker 1: letters from people around the world like US and Japan
Speaker 1: and India and Canada, and I'm like, wait a second,
Speaker 1: Like do people know about me, and then I like
Speaker 1: looked at you know, sort of news on Google and
Speaker 1: all of that. It's like wait a second, wow, Like
Speaker 1: this is this is truly an opportunity because people have
Speaker 1: heard my but maybe I can bring attention to the
Speaker 1: stories of girls around the world. So I started Malala
Speaker 1: Fund as well at the time, an organization I have
Speaker 1: dedicated to girls education. So before I knew it, like,
Speaker 1: you know, everything had switched. Now now I was sort
Speaker 1: of like the lead activist. My father was following my footsteps,
Speaker 1: and I was like helping my family as well. I was,
Speaker 1: you know, doing a book or speeches and things like
Speaker 1: that to help support my family. And I also had
Speaker 1: to be a student at the same time.
Speaker 2: I mean, I know a lot even hearing about it,
Speaker 2: I'm just like, I don't I have no idea how
Speaker 2: you carried all of that.
Speaker 1: In the middle of all of this, you sort of
Speaker 1: forget that you are fifteen and you're supposed to be
Speaker 1: a girl. I you know, could not be silly. I
Speaker 1: could not do normal things. I was not binge watching
Speaker 1: some like sitcoms. I was I was not being able
Speaker 1: to make friends at school. I was too shy, too awkward,
Speaker 1: and you know, at lunchtime, I would I would just say, okay,
Speaker 1: you know, I hope I can like sit next to
Speaker 1: a friend. At least I can pretend like I'm sitting
Speaker 1: with somebody and I don't want to sit alone. So
Speaker 1: by the end of my school I just had only
Speaker 1: made one one best friend and we're now like friends
Speaker 1: for life, but just one one friend at school. And
Speaker 1: so that that was all tough, because when you're like
Speaker 1: so busy and you have all of this work going on,
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's hard. It's hard to be a
Speaker 1: normal student at school.
Speaker 2: I mean with the attack, it sounds like the television
Speaker 2: had come across your blog and aware of your speeches
Speaker 2: and your activism. Do you think they saw you as
Speaker 2: a threat because you were starting to gain momentum. Were
Speaker 2: you starting to have an impact and they noticed that
Speaker 2: or was it a way of displaying power, Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: how have you reconciled that?
Speaker 1: So the Taliban issued statements after that attack, and they
Speaker 1: said many things when I survived, that they did the
Speaker 1: right thing, that I was somehow promoting an anti Islamic
Speaker 1: ideology by simply asking for girls to be in school,
Speaker 1: and they said that they still see me as as
Speaker 1: that disobedient person that needs to be punished for speaking out.
Speaker 1: So they have like repeatedly created these fabricated narratives, these
Speaker 1: false narratives calling what I do as like un Islamic
Speaker 1: or all of that. I mean, like learning and education
Speaker 1: is a core part of Islam. I wish sometimes that
Speaker 1: they read what they're preaching, Like if they read more
Speaker 1: about Islam, they will learn that the most important thing
Speaker 1: is actually seeking knowledge and learning. And there's nothing in
Speaker 1: the religion that says a woman or a girl cannot learn.
Speaker 1: So how can they make up these new rules by themselves.
Speaker 1: It's just simply paid and misogyny, you know, it's they
Speaker 1: try to misreligions exactly exactly. Yeah, I mean, I I
Speaker 1: sometimes think about how much can I understand their ideology,
Speaker 1: and then how can I convince them. I was of
Speaker 1: this view for a long time. I thought maybe I
Speaker 1: could sit down with them and explain it to them,
Speaker 1: and I can tell them that, you know, I have
Speaker 1: also read the Quran with translation, or like I know
Speaker 1: all the ninety nine names of Allah off by heart,
Speaker 1: and I can sort of say, like you know that
Speaker 1: that they don't own the religion, like there are all
Speaker 1: of us from many cultures and many backgrounds who connect
Speaker 1: with with the faith that you know, education is not
Speaker 1: a threat to women. It's rather about their empowerment and
Speaker 1: that it is a core part of Islam. But with
Speaker 1: time I realized that you know, it's it's not about that,
Speaker 1: it's not about you know, changing their ideologies, but it's
Speaker 1: talking about the deep cause of why these extreme ideologies emerge.
Speaker 1: And education is a pathway to challenge indoctrination, to encourage
Speaker 1: critical thinking among people, and to empower people like education
Speaker 1: is the most powerful equalizer and it can help us
Speaker 1: address so many of these social economic injustices. And at
Speaker 1: the same time, like, you know, if the Taliban do
Speaker 1: not want to see women and girls empowered or in education,
Speaker 1: the best way for me to fight back is to
Speaker 1: help girls and women get education and equal opportunities. So
Speaker 1: I shifted my focus. I said, I'm going to focus
Speaker 1: on educating girls. The Taliban wanted to stop one girl
Speaker 1: from learning, Let's educate every girl in the world.
Speaker 2: It's so empowering listening to you you say that, and
Speaker 2: to see the ripple effects that it's having, And I
Speaker 2: wonder for you as you were doing that as you
Speaker 2: start that process from coming out of the koma. How
Speaker 2: long were you in a coma for?
Speaker 1: I think a week. It was like induced coma.
Speaker 2: I can't imagine how worried your parents were when you
Speaker 2: didn't come home that night.
Speaker 1: I mean it was a nightmare. I could never understand it.
Speaker 1: I you know, comprehended what they experienced. And it's one
Speaker 1: of those topics that sort of we have talked through
Speaker 1: when it was the book writing phase, you know, that's
Speaker 1: when you ask each other questions like I'm writing this chapter,
Speaker 1: can you tell me what exactly happened? But these conversations
Speaker 1: are really really hard, and like mental health therapy, these
Speaker 1: conversations did not come up at the time. I had,
Speaker 1: like many doctors and nurses, and I loved all of them,
Speaker 1: but the therapist at the hospital was my least favorite.
Speaker 1: And you know, she would ask me, how are you
Speaker 1: feeling today? And I would roll my eyes that you know,
Speaker 1: what does she know? And like my father, my parents
Speaker 1: and we sort of said not to therapy. We said
Speaker 1: it's okay, like, you know, I'm doing fine. I have recovered,
Speaker 1: like the surgeries are successful. I have recovered. And then
Speaker 1: it was like years later that I wished that I
Speaker 1: had received therapy because I thought, I I, you know,
Speaker 1: I had recovered and everything was fine. I just thought
Speaker 1: I did not remember the attack, so I'm good. I
Speaker 1: can move on. And then seven years later I had
Speaker 1: flashbacks that were triggered by a bong incident. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: you know, this is now college time, and I was
Speaker 1: open to exploring many things in college. I you know,
Speaker 1: my life had taken this shift. I was becoming a
Speaker 1: different young person. So this was like, you know, a
Speaker 1: normal light. And I was hanging out with some friends
Speaker 1: and they showed me a long and I was like,
Speaker 1: what is this and it's like, oh, you know, just
Speaker 1: give it a try. Nothing harmful. So I take one puff,
Speaker 1: I cough, and on the second attempt, I inhale it
Speaker 1: and I felt it went all inside my body and
Speaker 1: what was like supposed to be a fun night just
Speaker 1: took a sharp turn and immediately I froze. I thought
Speaker 1: I was reliving the attack. The flashbacks were in front
Speaker 1: of my eyes. I thought I could see the gunmen again.
Speaker 1: I was shaking, I was shivering, you know, I could
Speaker 1: hear my heart beat. I was you know, I just
Speaker 1: I wanted to scream. It was like the such a
Speaker 1: trauma that I was going through in that moment, and
Speaker 1: it like went on and on. I just wanted it
Speaker 1: to stop, and I felt so helpless, like time slowed down,
Speaker 1: you know. I thought, maybe this is the afterlife, maybe
Speaker 1: maybe I'm dead, maybe it has happened again, like maybe
Speaker 1: the gunmen are back. And I was like so scared
Speaker 1: that I could not even close my eyes and fall
Speaker 1: asleep because I thought if I close my eyes that
Speaker 1: I will die. And like even even the next day,
Speaker 1: I thought, you know, this will like sort of magically disappear.
Speaker 1: You just hope the next day to be normal, And
Speaker 1: it wasn't the case, and I realized that my life
Speaker 1: had changed. I had many panic attacks after that, and
Speaker 1: I as much as I tried, I just could it
Speaker 1: was not going away.
Speaker 2: Wow, it's incredible to think after seven years, yes, that
Speaker 2: everything could come back. And I was I was actually
Speaker 2: going to ask before that there's this. It's almost like
Speaker 2: you were being asked to be the symbol of courage
Speaker 2: and hope. Yeah, but that meant there was no space
Speaker 2: for grief or anger like or doubt, like the grief
Speaker 2: of the lost life that you had before, the grief
Speaker 2: of having to leave this place that you loved that
Speaker 2: you thought you were coming back to. It sounds like
Speaker 2: there wasn't any time or space to process any of that,
Speaker 2: And had you had the therapy support that you would
Speaker 2: have wanted, maybe it wouldn't have happened that way. Yeah,
Speaker 2: talk to me about how when did you was that
Speaker 2: when you first started looking at emotions like grief and anger,
Speaker 2: and what were the emotions that came up after that
Speaker 2: seven year reminder?
Speaker 1: I think now I see it as emotions of grief
Speaker 1: and frustration or but I think you know, what's different
Speaker 1: in my experience was that when a moment like that
Speaker 1: broke me down, and when small things would make me
Speaker 1: scared or frightened, all of a sudden, this was not
Speaker 1: happening before. Because I was supposed to be this brave
Speaker 1: and courageous girl, and now that I was afraid of
Speaker 1: small things or just nothing terrified me. I felt that
Speaker 1: I had failed in living up to the expectation of
Speaker 1: being brave and courageous, and that was the hardest part
Speaker 1: to process. I just could not take in more and
Speaker 1: I was frustrated with myself because I thought like Malana remembered, like,
Speaker 1: you went through so much, you processed it, and you
Speaker 1: could take so much on your shoulders. Why is it
Speaker 1: breaking you down now when like you are safe and
Speaker 1: there's nothing to be worried about, You like everything is okay,
Speaker 1: and somehow you're like frightened. Now that is just like
Speaker 1: so hard to process at the time that you feel
Speaker 1: like so frustrated with yourself. There's this anger frustration, and
Speaker 1: you feel like you are an impostor because you know
Speaker 1: you have you have failed to meet this definition of
Speaker 1: being brave. So for months, like it went on that
Speaker 1: even my friends started noticing that I was not doing okay.
Speaker 1: So one of my friends then suggested that I see
Speaker 1: a therapist. And that was the first time, after seven
Speaker 1: or eight years, that I started therapy.
Speaker 2: It's so fascinating, isn't it that despite you having lived
Speaker 2: through so many difficult things, the mind is still able
Speaker 2: to guilt you into thinking you should have figured this out. Like,
Speaker 2: how do you like it's so like hearing you say
Speaker 2: that you've got all the proof that you've gone through
Speaker 2: really hard things. Yes, but the mind still finds a
Speaker 2: way to make you feel guilty and shameful and frustrated
Speaker 2: that you haven't figured out, or an impostor as you
Speaker 2: just said, like, oh you're an impostor because you're helping
Speaker 2: people have hope, but you're still dealing with this, and
Speaker 2: it's amazing how the mind can just get the better
Speaker 2: of us. Yeah, regardless of what we've lived through.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we lived under terrorism, we lived under
Speaker 1: the Taliban, and I lived those moments with so much courage.
Speaker 1: And then, like many years later, I could not even
Speaker 1: watch the news and see the word killing attack. It
Speaker 1: would just terrify me so much that like you cannot
Speaker 1: hide it. You cannot hide that it's breaking you apart.
Speaker 1: You know, the flashbacks, these panic attacks. So when my
Speaker 1: friend suggested that I see a therapist, I remember my
Speaker 1: first session with the therapist where I told her everything
Speaker 1: about what was going on. She told me that, you know,
Speaker 1: this is PTSD and anxiety. She said, it could be
Speaker 1: like many things. You might be stressed about your exams
Speaker 1: or your college life, and so many things that you
Speaker 1: are thinking about right now in life, but this is anxiety,
Speaker 1: and this is PTSD that you are experiencing, like many
Speaker 1: many years later, you know, I was so annoyed. I
Speaker 1: was saying, like, so, how can we fix this? I
Speaker 1: was hoping she would give me some medication, that she
Speaker 1: would fix the problem, but she made me realize that
Speaker 1: it takes time. It takes time to process. She taught
Speaker 1: me different techniques, like breathing techniques to help myself when
Speaker 1: I am facing anxiety. Uh and uh and and she,
Speaker 1: you know, helped me understand that there's only so much
Speaker 1: like you can take at a time. And maybe you
Speaker 1: could many years ago, but maybe right now that you know,
Speaker 1: she calls it a wind of tolerance, that your wind
Speaker 1: of tolerance is maybe you know, sort of shrinking a
Speaker 1: bit and then it expands a bit at times that
Speaker 1: maybe you have just too much on your shoulders that
Speaker 1: you are overwhelmed, or sometimes when we don't address it
Speaker 1: on time, it piles up and then it's they gets
Speaker 1: so heavy that it breaks you down. So she said,
Speaker 1: like you might be experiencing that as well. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: like the therapy really changed everything for me. Like if
Speaker 1: I had not received therapy, I just do not even
Speaker 1: know if I would have been like in this position
Speaker 1: right now.
Speaker 2: What kept you committed to therapy when you're having such
Speaker 2: dark days? Because as you said, it's not like you
Speaker 2: wake up tomorrow and you feel better, obviously, and so
Speaker 2: what kept you committed to the process when you weren't
Speaker 2: seeing the light at the end of the tunnel?
Speaker 1: So, you know, like I was finding a way to
Speaker 1: get out of it, like you know, you feel like
Speaker 1: you are you are in the darkness, or like you
Speaker 1: want to get out. You know that you don't want
Speaker 1: to be in the place where you are right now,
Speaker 1: and you're finding different ways to get out of it.
Speaker 1: I try to talk to my parents. My parents just
Speaker 1: could not understand I. You know, I was like sort
Speaker 1: of phrasing it in a way that it doesn't freak
Speaker 1: them out. But I was telling them that I have
Speaker 1: had some challenges with my mental health. And my mom
Speaker 1: was like, just don't be stressed, like you know, just
Speaker 1: be happy. And the same with my dad. He's like,
Speaker 1: you know, we want to see you happy, and when
Speaker 1: you are sad, it makes us sad, but when you happy,
Speaker 1: it makes us happy. And I was like, okay, like
Speaker 1: I'll try, but this is not how it works. I
Speaker 1: usually debate with my dad that you know, I have
Speaker 1: the right to be sad as well, that these are
Speaker 1: all emotions and we need to give ourselves time to
Speaker 1: process that. I found my friends very helpful. So at college,
Speaker 1: all the amazing friends that I had made helped me
Speaker 1: in this time because they were there for me. They
Speaker 1: were not my therapists, but they made sure that I
Speaker 1: like did not feel alone. That you know, they were
Speaker 1: sharing moments with me, taking me to dinner or taking
Speaker 1: me to an event or something like taking me for
Speaker 1: a walk, simple things like that. And then a few
Speaker 1: times they did a sleepover with me because I you know,
Speaker 1: I was struggling. I was struggling to fall asleep, and
Speaker 1: every you know, every day a friend would take a
Speaker 1: turn to a sleepover. You know, the first time that
Speaker 1: I was able to like fall asleep, And yeah, it
Speaker 1: was like my friends who made me feel that getting
Speaker 1: therapy it's okay, Like, don't be disappointed with yourselves that
Speaker 1: somehow you have not lived up to the expectation of,
Speaker 1: you know, being this brave girl who knows an answer
Speaker 1: to everything and she has figured it out. Like it's okay.
Speaker 1: So many people who you might think have got it
Speaker 1: all together are actually getting therapy. And when my friend
Speaker 1: told me that she herself was seeing a therapist, I said, wow,
Speaker 1: like I had no idea. She said, yeah, like you
Speaker 1: may not know what a lot of people are, so
Speaker 1: it's like it's okay. And my therapist told me the
Speaker 1: same thing. So that gave me a sense of relief
Speaker 1: where you just like don't feel alone anymore. And that's why,
Speaker 1: like I'm sharing my story because I'm wondering how many
Speaker 1: people are out there who might feel alone, who may
Speaker 1: not know a way out. I just want to tell
Speaker 1: them that I was in the same place, and I
Speaker 1: wished somebody had told me their story and had told us,
Speaker 1: like it's okay to ask for help, like, you know,
Speaker 1: get therapy, get the support, talk to somebody. I took
Speaker 1: months to actually see a therapist, So I hope that
Speaker 1: when people read my story, they they ask for help.
Speaker 2: Friends is such a kind of through line in your journey,
Speaker 2: as I'm hearing you talk today, like the importance of friends,
Speaker 2: missing friends, making friends. How would you define a good friend?
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like a place where you feel you
Speaker 1: can be yourself. When I am in the company of
Speaker 1: my friends, I don't think about being correct about everything.
Speaker 1: I don't think about am I you know, am I
Speaker 1: saying this thing correctly or not? And you just don't
Speaker 1: think twice. You can be yourself, You can let it
Speaker 1: all out. It is a non judgmental environment that they
Speaker 1: create for you, and especially for people like some of
Speaker 1: us who are exposed to a public life and who
Speaker 1: have a public profile. We have seen how you know,
Speaker 1: we can be criticized or scrutinized for almost anything, and
Speaker 1: we have to somehow to say all the correct things.
Speaker 1: But when you find friends that you trust, who love
Speaker 1: you and support you no matter what, you can be
Speaker 1: yourself with them. So like with my friends, I you know,
Speaker 1: I can be silly, I can be funny, I can
Speaker 1: talk about any topic. I can talk about boys and astrology,
Speaker 1: and you know, we can discuss their their their love
Speaker 1: lives and and in that moment, I just don't feel
Speaker 1: like I have to be somebody or I have to
Speaker 1: like live up to some sort of a profile that
Speaker 1: I have. I feel like I can just simply be myself.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that's that's what we're looking for.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Friends are everything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And as you're finding your way in this book,
Speaker 2: I imagine it becomes harder and harder with people who
Speaker 2: know more about you. If they don't know you, Yes,
Speaker 2: to really break that barrier down. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I remember the first week of college, I had
Speaker 1: decided that I will say hi to everybody. I you know,
Speaker 1: might be overdoing it, but it's okay. It might feel cringe,
Speaker 1: but go say hello to everybody, because you don't want
Speaker 1: it to be like your school life. You want to
Speaker 1: make as many friends as possible. I remember saying hi
Speaker 1: to Cora, who became like my first friend at college,
Speaker 1: and you know, like sort of when we connected. We
Speaker 1: we were talking about what we were studying and what
Speaker 1: we liked about our subjects, and then we were visiting
Speaker 1: these different exhibitions about different societies and clubs at the
Speaker 1: college fair. So then there was this like Oxford Union
Speaker 1: Fair as well. It's like a famous debating society, and
Speaker 1: you know, I was like hiding this identity of mine,
Speaker 1: of being you know, an activist. So I'm looking at
Speaker 1: the at the poster of the Oxford Union and I
Speaker 1: see all of these famous speakers who have spoken there before,
Speaker 1: and then I see a photo of mine, and I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, you know, why did they put it there?
Speaker 1: Or like how do I hide myself because this is
Speaker 1: like the last thing I want to see. And then
Speaker 1: some people spotted me. They asked for a photo, and
Speaker 1: this friend of mine, like she was just so supportive.
Speaker 1: She took you know, photos of me, you know, with
Speaker 1: the fans, and I was like, oh, like it's over.
Speaker 1: She may never want to talk to me again, like
Speaker 1: the friendship is over. But once that was done, you know,
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm so sorry, I said, you know,
Speaker 1: and she said it's okay, like you know, and we
Speaker 1: just quickly changed our conversation back to okay, like you know,
Speaker 1: what are we going to get for our groceries? Or
Speaker 1: you know, when when is our next essay? And all
Speaker 1: of that. I think with friends like these, you like,
Speaker 1: you know, you can be more yourself.
Speaker 2: When you're writing about in the book it was more
Speaker 2: about school than college, but you became the resident advisor
Speaker 2: on romance. Yes is what you say. And then there's
Speaker 2: this beautiful part where you say, how are you so
Speaker 2: good at spotting red flags when you've never been on
Speaker 2: a date And you say, I guess I'm a better
Speaker 2: coach than a player. You know, talk to me about
Speaker 2: that experience of again, like it goes back to what
Speaker 2: you were saying earlier, like you're trying to live up
Speaker 2: to this symbol you're not binge watching TV shows, you're
Speaker 2: not dating, you're not you know, no, walk me through
Speaker 2: that paradox of being a young woman who's wanting to
Speaker 2: experience the world growing up, but then having to keep
Speaker 2: this reminder almost of who what you stand for.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I had become this relationship guru in
Speaker 1: college because everybody was going through some problems with boys.
Speaker 1: You know, you can imagine there are always problems. Somebody
Speaker 1: was getting ghosted or you know, the boy was not
Speaker 1: replying for two days and my friend is like, do
Speaker 1: you think he loves me? And I'm like you missing
Speaker 1: the sign? And you know, I you know, I was
Speaker 1: helping them understand, you know, to some I was saying,
Speaker 1: like you need to move on, like there's more in life.
Speaker 1: And then they were like, how do you know it all?
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't know. Yeah I do sometimes say,
Speaker 1: you know, like a coach doesn't have to be on
Speaker 1: the field, Like I did not expect to have like
Speaker 1: a love story. And even though like just growing up,
Speaker 1: I had seen Bollywood movies and everybody has imagined Sharokhan
Speaker 1: like figure, you know, we all imagine ourselves in the
Speaker 1: Sharokhan songs. But I became very self conscious to the
Speaker 1: attack because my facial nerve was damaged on the left
Speaker 1: side and that caused asymmetry, and you know, like my
Speaker 1: smile and the features were not the same anymore, and
Speaker 1: you know, sort of like you noticed, right, like you
Speaker 1: notice you're not the same person anymore. So I became
Speaker 1: it's more self aware, and I just thought, okay, like
Speaker 1: I you know, I should not like I just thought
Speaker 1: like nobody would love me. And at the same time,
Speaker 1: I was like, but nobody, because you know, we're.
Speaker 2: Like so.
Speaker 1: Hard on ourselves. That were like, you know, but nobody
Speaker 1: should love me, and I just want to focus on
Speaker 1: the work now. This love life is not for me.
Speaker 1: So that's sort of what I thought. Though in college
Speaker 1: I did find a crush. He was just like good
Speaker 1: looking guy, not my husband, A different guy, a good
Speaker 1: looking guy, a really mysterious character, more like a gangster
Speaker 1: kind of character. I did not know I was attracted
Speaker 1: to like the bad voice, and it was more like
Speaker 1: a one sided love in imagination. It wasn't real because
Speaker 1: you know, he would just sometimes like say hello to me,
Speaker 1: come to my room, and eat all the bananas and
Speaker 1: cookies and then disappear, you know, there was like there
Speaker 1: was like I just had no idea. My friends would
Speaker 1: sometimes say that, you know, he's doing drugs and stuff
Speaker 1: like that, so stay away from him, and I was like, no,
Speaker 1: he needs my head, like somebody needs to protect him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but like when you yourself are in that love phase,
Speaker 1: then it's you can't see it clearly. It is true,
Speaker 1: like you know, you just can't see it. But yeah,
Speaker 1: then that crush ghosted me and that story was over.
Speaker 1: But I was like, you know, at least I just
Speaker 1: went through a moment of feeling love and maybe I
Speaker 1: loved it because I was under this like assumption that
Speaker 1: you know, I cannot be loved and I will never
Speaker 1: find somebody. So I said, just why there's no harm
Speaker 1: in just loving somebody in your imagination?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that feeling of I won't be loved
Speaker 2: and maybe it isn't for me, that feels like a
Speaker 2: really deep kind of emotion that that doesn't just disappear.
Speaker 2: What worked to help work through that? Like, what really
Speaker 2: allowed you to work on that, especially when this feeling
Speaker 2: came from the incident and from being attacked. It didn't
Speaker 2: come from yourself. You didn't have that before.
Speaker 1: You know, girls have been sort of told to be
Speaker 1: insecure about themselves, so I would not say that there
Speaker 1: was like literally no insecurity before. But after that attack,
Speaker 1: I became very very insecure about my looks, but so
Speaker 1: much that I just said, you know what, I don't
Speaker 1: care about it. When you set a new pathway for
Speaker 1: yourself and you say, you know what, like love life
Speaker 1: is not for me, I don't care if nobody loves me,
Speaker 1: and it just doesn't matter. And I think in the
Speaker 1: middle of that, I just forgot to love myself. That
Speaker 1: was the hard part. But when I found this new
Speaker 1: guy in my life, sir, who's now my husband. So
Speaker 1: there's there's a good ending to this story, you know.
Speaker 1: I immediately fell in love with him because he was
Speaker 1: like so good looking, heart and handsome, funny, here a
Speaker 1: good sense of humor. He was laughing at my jokes.
Speaker 1: I thought, he's just so entertaining. I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: like is he they? Is he like the person that
Speaker 1: I had sort of imagined, you know, for myself. So
Speaker 1: when you know, when Asa and I started like talking
Speaker 1: and we were getting to know each other, I knew
Speaker 1: that I love him and I wanted to be with him.
Speaker 1: The marriage was a whole different conversation, so we can
Speaker 1: come back to that. But the other conversation was about
Speaker 1: me accepting that he loves me. I was in so
Speaker 1: much doubt I could not trust it. I you know,
Speaker 1: I just constantly felt like, you know, but why would
Speaker 1: he love me? And then like in the end, I
Speaker 1: just told myself that, you know, somebody can't write a
Speaker 1: proof to you to say, hey, I give you a
Speaker 1: proof that I love you. If they are treating you
Speaker 1: with respect and they make you happy and they're there
Speaker 1: for you and they want to spend the rest of
Speaker 1: their life with you, then they love you and embrace that.
Speaker 1: Accept that, like, don't question it, don't doubt it. You
Speaker 1: can't give them any guarantee. They can't give you any guarantee.
Speaker 1: So I had to like process that. It was really hard,
Speaker 1: but in the end I accepted it because I constantly
Speaker 1: would have these questions in my head, but like, are
Speaker 1: you okay with like the way I look at it?
Speaker 1: Okay if I can't have like a full smile, and
Speaker 1: are you okay with like sort of the left side
Speaker 1: of my face and all of that. Like sometimes I
Speaker 1: would try to ask him this question, and sometimes these
Speaker 1: questions would be floating in my mind and then I
Speaker 1: would just remind myself, like, he's here with you. He's
Speaker 1: looking at you, and he's smiling, like he can't stop
Speaker 1: looking at you. He's calling you gorgeous and beautiful. So
Speaker 1: accept that embrace that user loved me, and he you know,
Speaker 1: with him like I have felt this immense love and joy,
Speaker 1: So he loves me. But more than that, I think
Speaker 1: I started loving myself.
Speaker 2: Wow. I love hearing that. Thank you for sharing that,
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for taking us there. And yes,
Speaker 2: the multitude of emotions that every person goes through and
Speaker 2: definitely what women go through. But then to add your
Speaker 2: own experience to as well, what was Usro's background like
Speaker 2: when it comes to women's rights and education and you know,
Speaker 2: how did he what was his viewpoint on that? Of
Speaker 2: course I assume yes it's supportive, but I'd love to
Speaker 2: know what his journey was and his experience if that
Speaker 2: was Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, he has two older sisters who are like
Speaker 1: eighteen and sixteen years older than him, and so he
Speaker 1: usually says that he grew up with three moms. He
Speaker 1: wasn't as close to his dad. He has like the
Speaker 1: right views. I know, sometimes men receive a lot of
Speaker 1: praise when they're saying the right thing. We're like, wow,
Speaker 1: this man is so nice because he believes women should
Speaker 1: be allowed to work, or yeah, like women should be
Speaker 1: making decisions about their bodies and about their career anything,
Speaker 1: like wow, he's such a nice man. So yes, I
Speaker 1: do sometimes say that he is an amazing person, like
Speaker 1: so open minded and like he just respects women's dignity
Speaker 1: and and see and see them as like equal humans
Speaker 1: and which is which should be the case. But then
Speaker 1: at the same time, I'm like, that should be called
Speaker 1: a basic man. It's a basic normal man.
Speaker 2: It's so true. It's really hard to process. It's such
Speaker 2: a great way.
Speaker 1: And I've been praising my dad so much for being
Speaker 1: like this amazing feminist dad. That should be a basic
Speaker 1: normal dad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well said absolutely brilliant. It's a basic man
Speaker 2: and a basic dad. That's what we're trying to aspire for,
Speaker 2: right exactly. No, it's true, you're you can you can
Speaker 2: have said it better. It's it's not an achievement to
Speaker 2: think we should have equal rights and equal opportunities and
Speaker 2: equal Yeah, there's no there's no greatness in that it's obvious.
Speaker 2: It's really really obvious, makes a lot of sense. Was
Speaker 2: it was it hard for you to fall in love
Speaker 2: and date and build a relationship with the expectations that
Speaker 2: come from you know, your home, that come from culture,
Speaker 2: that come from family. Like of course you've talked about
Speaker 2: your father being more forward thinking when it comes to
Speaker 2: women's education. But I feel like dating, love, romance, these
Speaker 2: are not easy topics in a South Asian home.
Speaker 1: All of these things were on my mind, but I
Speaker 1: think the one thing that sort of held me back
Speaker 1: was marriage because you know, like I had to then
Speaker 1: understand that, like in reality, if I want to be
Speaker 1: with us or we have to get married, because culturally,
Speaker 1: you cannot be with a person, you know, you have
Speaker 1: to like get married to live with them. So I
Speaker 1: knew that, you know, I cannot sort of like change
Speaker 1: that whole culture all of a sudden. And at the
Speaker 1: same time, like I said, you know, like I have
Speaker 1: seen how marriage has changed the future of so many
Speaker 1: girls who were forced into it. I you know, we
Speaker 1: know that tens of millions of girls every year are
Speaker 1: married off before the age of eighteen, and this is
Speaker 1: you know, this has been an institution that has given
Speaker 1: less to women through history and across the globe. So
Speaker 1: it wasn't that I was against marriage or for marriage
Speaker 1: or any of that, but I was just like confused.
Speaker 1: I said, like, okay, like this, this is not an
Speaker 1: easy decision. And I felt that I was thinking collectively
Speaker 1: for all women when I was considering marriage for myself.
Speaker 1: So like, on the one hand, I just wanted to
Speaker 1: be with us, sir, I said, like, there's no doubt
Speaker 1: about that, But at the same time, I also was
Speaker 1: grappling with this idea of marriage. In the end, I
Speaker 1: you know, I did all of my like research, and
Speaker 1: I chatted with my friends and we were like reading
Speaker 1: books by famous feminist authors and all of that. But
Speaker 1: I said to User that you know, it's it's about
Speaker 1: this like mutual agreement between us. And the more we talked,
Speaker 1: the more sort of I spent time with him. I
Speaker 1: just understood who he was as a person and how
Speaker 1: he would be like a great supportive husband, and I
Speaker 1: just saw how I enjoyed my time in his company,
Speaker 1: that when I was with him, all these questions that
Speaker 1: would be floating in my mind would just vanish. And
Speaker 1: I remember we went to Lake Placid, And this was
Speaker 1: a few months before marriage. While I was still thinking,
Speaker 1: I said, maybe it's like over, maybe like I'll ask
Speaker 1: him all the questions and he'll answer one incorrectly and
Speaker 1: it's done. But the more time we spent together, sort
Speaker 1: of I was getting those answers without even asking those questions.
Speaker 1: So on the last day in Lake Placid, he said, so,
Speaker 1: you know, are you gonna ask me the questions finally
Speaker 1: or not? And I said, I think I have the answer,
Speaker 1: and I said I'm ready. I think I'm ready to
Speaker 1: be with you for the rest of my life. So then,
Speaker 1: you know, a few months later, we finally got married.
Speaker 1: And I still say that I am not proposing that
Speaker 1: marriage is the best decision for every woman out there.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's the worst decision for every woman
Speaker 1: out there. I think it should be a conversation that
Speaker 1: we should be having openly, and you know, we should
Speaker 1: redefine these traditions, these norms, and talk about how it
Speaker 1: can be this beautiful mutual agreement between two people where
Speaker 1: they add more to their lives and make each other's
Speaker 1: life happier, more joyful, more adventurous, and that we challenge,
Speaker 1: you know, the elements of it that have given less
Speaker 1: to women, and you know and talk about the bigger problems.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And the book you wrote, how to choose between
Speaker 2: an institution I didn't believe in, yes, and a life
Speaker 2: without the person I loved. And it's really interesting to
Speaker 2: hear you make sense of it. And again, it sounds
Speaker 2: like it was such an intentional decision and there was
Speaker 2: so much thought behind why and what and how. And
Speaker 2: I think that, yeah, I agree with you, no matter
Speaker 2: whether someone decides to choose to get married or not.
Speaker 2: I think that level of thought, yes, is just inherently
Speaker 2: important and necessary.
Speaker 1: But because I just thought I would never get married,
Speaker 1: I would tell all my college friends, do not get married,
Speaker 1: stay away from boys. It's just a waste of time
Speaker 1: and all of that. So I was like strongly against
Speaker 1: marriage for a long time, and then I fell in
Speaker 1: love and I was the first one in my friends
Speaker 1: group to get married. They were rolling their eyes. They're like, seriously, seriously,
Speaker 1: that's what you were advocating against. I was like oop. See.
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, you should never listen to
Speaker 1: a person, you know, if they randomly give you advice.
Speaker 1: I said, I'm an education activist, like, listen to me
Speaker 1: on that. Don't consider me an expert on every topic,
Speaker 1: especially marriage.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely absolutely. How do you when you look at
Speaker 2: just how your life has changed, how the world has changed,
Speaker 2: When you observe what's happening in the world today, what
Speaker 2: do you focus on? What are you reflecting on, what
Speaker 2: are you aware of?
Speaker 1: I think the world is constantly changing, but right now
Speaker 1: it feels that it is becoming more and more difficult
Speaker 1: for women and girls. And I'm saying because of what
Speaker 1: we are witnessing right now happening in Afghanistan. For the
Speaker 1: past four years, the Taliban have limited women and girls
Speaker 1: from education, work, and any public and political life. The
Speaker 1: Afghan women activists and different human rights groups are calling
Speaker 1: it a gender apartheid, which means that it is a
Speaker 1: form of an apartheid or a systematic oppression simply based
Speaker 1: on gender. That if you are born a girl, you
Speaker 1: have a different life. You cannot even dream to be
Speaker 1: in school or to work. So like, when I just
Speaker 1: think about what's happening with girls education, how there is
Speaker 1: a country where girls are banned from education and at
Speaker 1: the same time there are conflicts, wars, and a genocide
Speaker 1: happening where schools are bombed, where children are attacked, and
Speaker 1: children are losing their future, like you know, from Sudan,
Speaker 1: Congo all the way to Palestine, like what we have
Speaker 1: witness happening in Gaza, like right in front of our eyes,
Speaker 1: on our screens. It's it's like, it's terrifying. I just
Speaker 1: simply wish for a future for girls where they can
Speaker 1: live a dignified life with full access to education. And
Speaker 1: we know that that cannot happen if we do not
Speaker 1: address the problems or the injustices that are happening right
Speaker 1: in front of our eyes. So these topics, you know,
Speaker 1: whether it's about the wars and conflicts, or whether it's
Speaker 1: about like climate related events like floods or other injustices,
Speaker 1: we cannot separate them from how it's affecting gulls education.
Speaker 1: And at the same time, like you know, we can,
Speaker 1: we can, we can think differently. We can think about
Speaker 1: investing in the future of girls. We can think about
Speaker 1: investing in education or focusing on children as a way
Speaker 1: to help us address these problems as well. So education
Speaker 1: is like one of the most powerful and like best
Speaker 1: solutions to a lot of the world inequalities injustices. So
Speaker 1: that's you know, that's something that I advocate for. That's
Speaker 1: the focus of my work. So these are like the
Speaker 1: issues that I focus on.
Speaker 2: What are you seeing that's actually making a change in
Speaker 2: places where women and young girls have been held back? Yeah,
Speaker 2: what are you actually seeing is moving the needle and
Speaker 2: creating the shifts that you're wanting.
Speaker 1: It is the local activists who are driving real change
Speaker 1: on the ground. My father and I started as local
Speaker 1: education activists in Swat Valley. I thought like nobody knew
Speaker 1: what we were going through more than us. And I
Speaker 1: feel the same about all of these other pressing problems
Speaker 1: that we hear about in the world. You know, if
Speaker 1: we're talking about Afghanistan, if you're talking about Gaza, if
Speaker 1: you're talking about Nigeria, if you're talking about guls' education
Speaker 1: challenges in Pakistan or other countries, we have to work
Speaker 1: together with the local activists because they understand and the
Speaker 1: problems and they understand the best solutions to those problems
Speaker 1: as well. So, you know, when I started my foundation,
Speaker 1: Malala Fund, like you know, I was ambitious to like
Speaker 1: make change happen everywhere, but I had to really question myself,
Speaker 1: what can help us make real change. I you know,
Speaker 1: I have given many speeches and received many awards and
Speaker 1: all of that. I can tell you that it's not
Speaker 1: about one speech, even though like in history, we are
Speaker 1: sort of taught like it was that one speech of
Speaker 1: I have a dream that changed everything. No, I think
Speaker 1: it's it's decades long work to shift narrative, to change policies,
Speaker 1: to change the law. That is real change. And yes,
Speaker 1: everything like adds up. You know, we cannot say that,
Speaker 1: you know, one action is completely useless. It adds up.
Speaker 1: But we have to have a bigger picture. So through
Speaker 1: Malala Fund, we are investing in local education activists in Nigeria,
Speaker 1: in Pakistan. We're also working in Ethiopia, Tanzania and Brazil,
Speaker 1: and then Afghanistan is our priority country because of the
Speaker 1: literal ban on girls education. We are providing support to
Speaker 1: the local education activists who are giving alternative education to
Speaker 1: girls right now. You know, we're thinking about ways to
Speaker 1: help take education to the homes of girls when the
Speaker 1: Taliban are not allowing them to be in school. This
Speaker 1: is like our short term response. But we cannot you know,
Speaker 1: see this as normal girls should be allowed to be
Speaker 1: in school. So we are also supporting the Afghan women
Speaker 1: activists who are doing advocacy leading these campaigns, asking leaders
Speaker 1: to hold the Taliban accountable, and they're asking leaders to
Speaker 1: codify gender apartheid, to recognize what's happening in Afghanistan as
Speaker 1: a gender apartheid, to put more pressure on the Taliban,
Speaker 1: to include women in the rooms where decisions about their
Speaker 1: future are made, to put women's rights on the agenda,
Speaker 1: and to change the reality that women and girls in
Speaker 1: Afghanistan are living under. Like for me, if you ask me,
Speaker 1: are we doing enough or not? For me? Like the
Speaker 1: response is like, yes, we're doing something, But I think
Speaker 1: about the girls who are out of school right now.
Speaker 1: For as long as the band continues and girls are
Speaker 1: not in school, I don't think we're doing enough. So
Speaker 1: we constantly need to be doing more whatever is in
Speaker 1: our capacity to help Afghan women and girls have the
Speaker 1: future that they deserve. So supporting local education activists is
Speaker 1: the most powerful way to drive real change.
Speaker 2: That's really helpful because I think so many people want
Speaker 2: to help and they don't know where to start or
Speaker 2: what the right thing to do is. And to hear
Speaker 2: that from you, I think we'll give a lot of
Speaker 2: people here the opportunity. A lot of our listeners are
Speaker 2: people who want to serve, who want to support, who
Speaker 2: want to help from across the world. And I guess
Speaker 2: the Malala Fund and some of these places that you're
Speaker 2: supporting would be great places to be able to contribute.
Speaker 1: This is the model of Malala Fund is like the
Speaker 1: fundraising we do, we allocate that money into grants into
Speaker 1: these local organizations who are working in all of the
Speaker 1: countries that I mentioned, like Nigeria, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and I
Speaker 1: have visited the work of these organizations like I was
Speaker 1: in Nigeria, and these activists are just incredible people. Some
Speaker 1: of them have worked for decades. They have changed policies
Speaker 1: in multiple states. Like five years ago, you know, a
Speaker 1: girl was not guaranteed education beyond her primary level and
Speaker 1: today you know she's guaranteed her secondary education. It's because
Speaker 1: of the work of these activists. So they do an
Speaker 1: incredible work. They have changed the lives of so many girls,
Speaker 1: empowered them. And when I meet the girls, like you
Speaker 1: can see the change happen like right in front of
Speaker 1: your eyes. So it's like they're truly inspiring. And I
Speaker 1: actually focus on supporting young women and gul activists. So
Speaker 1: when we talk about activists, I'm like, we have to
Speaker 1: support the girls because they're the ones who are actually
Speaker 1: experiencing these problems and these challenges, and they can be
Speaker 1: the best ones to actually advocate for their rights. So
Speaker 1: I also focus on like giving grants and support to
Speaker 1: the girls activists.
Speaker 2: That's incredible, Thank you for sharing that. And I really
Speaker 2: hope that if I can be useful at all or
Speaker 2: of service, then please let me know. I'd love to involved.
Speaker 2: It's such a I have a younger sister. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: feel like that I was raised by my mum and
Speaker 2: took care of my younger sister, so I feel like
Speaker 2: I've always grown up with that understanding and at least
Speaker 2: a at least a feeling of that. And having grown
Speaker 2: up in London, of course it was somewhat easier, but
Speaker 2: at the same time you still see the discrepancies that exist.
Speaker 2: And so yeah, if I can be useful, please let
Speaker 2: me know. As I've been listening to you today, Malala,
Speaker 2: I've been wondering, now, when you look back at the
Speaker 2: attack and you look back on that moment, how do
Speaker 2: you process it after the therapy, after the years away
Speaker 2: after the seven years when it came back, Like, how
Speaker 2: do you view that day and event now after all
Speaker 2: this time.
Speaker 1: Funny enough, today is the ninth of October while we
Speaker 1: are recording it, and this is the date when the
Speaker 1: attack happened. So it's been thirteen years, do you know.
Speaker 1: I live it as a normal day. I do not
Speaker 1: want to think about it. It is really hard to
Speaker 1: process this day because somehow this day is about the
Speaker 1: gunman who attacked me. And that's why, like I just
Speaker 1: I want to go. I want to stay, to go
Speaker 1: as fast as it can, because I just do not
Speaker 1: want to think about you know how you know a person,
Speaker 1: a gunman could decide to target a fifteen year old girl.
Speaker 1: It's really hard. It's not just about like what I experienced,
Speaker 1: but it puts you in a place where you feel
Speaker 1: less hope for humanity. But in moments like these, I
Speaker 1: just try to live this day as normal as I
Speaker 1: can and not think about it. And I just remind
Speaker 1: myself of the millions of people who stood with me
Speaker 1: and supported me. I think about the immense love that
Speaker 1: I have received. I just think about the incredible activists
Speaker 1: who have joined hands with me to help create a
Speaker 1: better future for guls. I just think about the collective
Speaker 1: work that we're all doing. So, you know, I just
Speaker 1: reflect on how we can create a world where no
Speaker 1: other child faces a bullet, how we can create a
Speaker 1: world where every child can have the right to be
Speaker 1: in school and play and read and learn and have
Speaker 1: a normal childhood. So it's just a reminder of of
Speaker 1: this commitment to creating a better future for for every
Speaker 1: girl and every child out there. So that's that's what
Speaker 1: I focus on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I really appreciate how human and true that answer is,
Speaker 2: because I think often we we externally we project a
Speaker 2: glamorized view where people are like, oh yeah, that that
Speaker 2: that was the day everything changed, and you know, my life.
Speaker 2: I look back and it was one of the best
Speaker 2: things that ever happened, because and it's like, you know,
Speaker 2: just it's it's unhealthy, and it's it's wonderful to hear
Speaker 2: it from a very human emotion of just like I
Speaker 2: don't like to think about it. You know, it's it's
Speaker 2: it's it's it's much more much more real to hear
Speaker 2: you say that, And I think it's important. That's what
Speaker 2: I think this book Finding My Way does is that
Speaker 2: people get a real view on what activism actually looks like.
Speaker 2: Because I think we have I think we're looking for heroes,
Speaker 2: and because we're looking for heroes, we have a gloryfied
Speaker 2: view of what activism looks like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we see them as like a more global figure. Yeah,
Speaker 1: global figures are also doing amazing things. But it's the
Speaker 1: people who we have not heard of, we have not
Speaker 1: seen on our screens that are changing the lives of people.
Speaker 1: I have traveled to so many countries and met incredible
Speaker 1: activists who have transformed the lives of guls by standing
Speaker 1: up for their education. Like I was in Tanzania and
Speaker 1: I learned about these incredible activists who themselves when they
Speaker 1: were in school, you know, had to fight for staying
Speaker 1: in school every day. And today they are changing the
Speaker 1: lives of many girls out there. They're you know, giving
Speaker 1: them bicycles because they have to walk for long distances
Speaker 1: to have the safety and to make it to school sooner.
Speaker 1: They are giving them safety in schools. They are changing
Speaker 1: the laws which did not allow girls who became pregnant
Speaker 1: and mothers at a young age to return to school.
Speaker 1: They have like reversed that. They're like every girl should
Speaker 1: be in school. When you look at these milestones, it
Speaker 1: just gives you so much more hope. And I'm just
Speaker 1: like so proud of the work that Afghan women activists
Speaker 1: are doing. They're resilient, they're standing up through the Taliban,
Speaker 1: and they are the future of Afghanistan. So I have
Speaker 1: so much hope. You know, I know that the Taliban
Speaker 1: would not be in power forever. It's the Afghan women
Speaker 1: and girls who will be shaping the future of their country.
Speaker 2: Malala. Before we end, they usually I end with a
Speaker 2: final five. Okay, Before we do that, I want to
Speaker 2: ask you, is there anything that I haven't asked you
Speaker 2: about that you wish you had a chance to share
Speaker 2: here in this book.
Speaker 1: One other topic that I discuss is a sense of
Speaker 1: belonging and I have really struggled with that because of
Speaker 1: the way I had to leave Pakistan. I have been
Speaker 1: to Pakistan many more times after that because I just
Speaker 1: did not want to give up on seeing my home again.
Speaker 1: I wanted to see the mountains, be by the river,
Speaker 1: smell the fresh air, and being the place where I
Speaker 1: grew up. But at the same time, I have now
Speaker 1: met so many people around the world. I have seen
Speaker 1: different countries, and I have found a sense of belonging
Speaker 1: everywhere now. And I feel this sense of belonging when
Speaker 1: I'm in the company of my family, when I'm chatting
Speaker 1: with my friends and we are laughing out loud, or
Speaker 1: when I am holding the hand of my husband. This
Speaker 1: is sort of the sense of belonging that I feel.
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, it's like when you when
Speaker 1: you meet so many people, you just realize we're all one.
Speaker 1: So I hope that we can promote more of that.
Speaker 1: And I have always had this sense of like home
Speaker 1: and I and I was always looking for home, like
Speaker 1: you know, we we've always lived in rented buildings, so
Speaker 1: I just never thought like what was my my real
Speaker 1: and my true home. But now you know, for me,
Speaker 1: like home, home is everywhere. And I have been on
Speaker 1: this journey to make change happen for girls in the world.
Speaker 1: And the one place that was always on my mind
Speaker 1: was my own hometown in Pakistan, where I saw how
Speaker 1: girls were still dreaming to finish their school and there
Speaker 1: were there were no high school in the village where
Speaker 1: my parents and were born. So when I started like
Speaker 1: Malalafund and when I won the Nobel Peace prize. It
Speaker 1: came with the prize money as well, So I said,
Speaker 1: you know what, I Am going to make a school there.
Speaker 1: And it's considered to be one of the most difficult
Speaker 1: areas to work in because it's up in the mountains
Speaker 1: and nobody wants to go and work there. But I said,
Speaker 1: if we can make it happen there, I think we
Speaker 1: can make it happen in any part of the country.
Speaker 1: You know, we work. We worked on it for the
Speaker 1: past seven eight years, and this year the first class graduated.
Speaker 1: I went to Pakistan in March. I visited the school
Speaker 1: for the first time. It was so different than what
Speaker 1: I had seen on PowerPoint presentations and in photos, you know,
Speaker 1: like just just seeing that in the middle of these
Speaker 1: of these mountains there's this beautiful school where girls are learning,
Speaker 1: they are playing, they are talking, they're laughing, they are
Speaker 1: dreaming of having future for themselves. It was the most
Speaker 1: rewarding feeling. And what I loved was the support that
Speaker 1: they received. Like they played chess and it's like a
Speaker 1: state of the art school. They have all of these
Speaker 1: different like activities. It's an incredible school. But when I
Speaker 1: saw the mental health office, that made me so happy.
Speaker 1: And the girls were telling me how they get mental
Speaker 1: health support. They sometimes do these different activities where they
Speaker 1: just sing together and dance and sometimes just scream to
Speaker 1: let it all out. So when I was just reflecting
Speaker 1: on my own mental health journey and how I wished
Speaker 1: we had more support, that I had more support, and
Speaker 1: how you know we want more support for girls, it
Speaker 1: just gave me so much joy that the girls were
Speaker 1: getting the support that they were, that they deserved and
Speaker 1: that they should have. So that was such a rewarding moment,
Speaker 1: and it gives me hope that we can make education
Speaker 1: a reality for every girl in every corner of the world,
Speaker 1: and all those one hundred and twenty two million girls
Speaker 1: who do not have access to education, we can do
Speaker 1: something for them. We can ensure that every girl can
Speaker 1: be in school, every girl can complete our education.
Speaker 2: First of all, congratulations, thank you. That's such a I
Speaker 2: can't comprehend or conceive of just how momentous that is
Speaker 2: for you to be able to open that school. And
Speaker 2: what I love about your focus is that there's the
Speaker 2: academic education, but there's also that value that you're putting
Speaker 2: on the emotional education that all of these girls require,
Speaker 2: so that they can truly achieve their full potential and
Speaker 2: not be held back because the academic qualification gives them
Speaker 2: access and as you said, creates more equality, but the
Speaker 2: emotional education helps them protect themselves and really stand up
Speaker 2: for themselves as well. So that's incredible. I mean, I
Speaker 2: hope I can visit one there.
Speaker 1: Sounds like I would love to take you.
Speaker 2: Sounds like such a beautiful place to visit with it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's incredible, Malala. It's been such a privilege and honor
Speaker 2: to talk to you. Honestly, I really mean that I
Speaker 2: always knew it would be, but meeting you and sitting
Speaker 2: with you here face to face, getting the chance to
Speaker 2: read your book early, it's it's beyond what I expected.
Speaker 2: It's surpassed all my expectations. Just the depth, the grace,
Speaker 2: the humor with which you carry yourself.
Speaker 1: As well as you would give it five stars.
Speaker 2: So we end every episode of On Purpose with a
Speaker 2: final five. These questions have to be answered in one word.
Speaker 2: I always say one word to one sentence, but nobody does,
Speaker 2: no one We can ignore it but one sentence maximum.
Speaker 2: But Malala, these your final five. The first question is
Speaker 2: what is the best advice you've ever heard or received.
Speaker 1: I love it when people make you feel that they're
Speaker 1: there for you. You know, the words mean everything to me,
Speaker 1: of course I and I really appreciate that, and I
Speaker 1: also offer like words of support to the girls I meet.
Speaker 1: And sometimes you know, like people roll their eyes like
Speaker 1: you know, what can what can they do to a
Speaker 1: girl's life when you tell them believe in yourself, follow
Speaker 1: your dreams. But I remember hearing those words when I was,
Speaker 1: you know, a child, and it meant everything to me
Speaker 1: because some people give you this hope and this belief
Speaker 1: that maybe you can do it too. So these things
Speaker 1: mean a lot. But I think more than that, it's
Speaker 1: you offering your support and making somebody feel that you
Speaker 1: are there for them, they're not alone. I think actions
Speaker 1: are just way more powerful.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can agree more love the answer. And you're
Speaker 2: so right that these cliches are a cliche for a reason,
Speaker 2: because you know, when you tell someone you believe in them,
Speaker 2: sometimes someone needs to hear that the most in that moment,
Speaker 2: and so it can't be undervalued. Question number two, what
Speaker 2: is the worst advice you've ever had or received?
Speaker 1: The list is long, maybe getting a fringe cut wingch
Speaker 1: like bangs. I did it in COVID time. I did
Speaker 1: it in COVID time. No, it was terrible. It was
Speaker 1: a terrible, terrible advice that I took from a friend.
Speaker 1: And I wait for like two years for it to
Speaker 1: return to the normal length.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so good.
Speaker 1: Please don't get it if it's not for you.
Speaker 2: You know, that's so good. Question number three, what part
Speaker 2: of yourself are you still learning to love? Oh?
Speaker 1: I am so ambitious about seeing change happen in my lifetime,
Speaker 1: especially when you receive like so much recognition and support.
Speaker 1: I always feel like I have received more than what
Speaker 1: I deserve. I mean, like getting a Nobel Peace Prize
Speaker 1: at seventeen. I can work for the rest of my
Speaker 1: life and still feel like I did not deserve it,
Speaker 1: because still millions of girls are out of school. So,
Speaker 1: you know, I would keep on questioning myself like can
Speaker 1: we make the change happen? Can we make it sooner?
Speaker 1: But I then remind myself that it's you know. As
Speaker 1: much as we love to say one person changed the world,
Speaker 1: even I myself said one book, one pen can change
Speaker 1: the world. I think a person can start a change,
Speaker 1: they can spark it. But it is the work of
Speaker 1: collective activism that can help us see the change become
Speaker 1: a reality. So I just constantly remind myself this. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm at times disappointed, like why are these things happening?
Speaker 1: But it's you know, Afghanistan, Gaza, one hundred and twenty
Speaker 1: million girls out of school, child marriage, so many things.
Speaker 1: But then I'm like, the work is in action, it
Speaker 1: is happening. Keep supporting education activists, keep doing the advocacy,
Speaker 1: keep empowering and uplifting girls' voices and stopping and you know,
Speaker 1: like and doubting yourself is not the answer that you know,
Speaker 1: you don't want to go still where everything stops, So
Speaker 1: keep it going, accelerate it. But it's a constant conversation
Speaker 1: that I have with myself.
Speaker 2: I'm taking a slight detour from the final five because
Speaker 2: you said a couple of things that when you talk
Speaker 2: about one hundred and twenty two million girls in the world,
Speaker 2: you don't have access to education. What's the primary reason
Speaker 2: for that? Well, how does that break down across?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you know, there are many reasons for that.
Speaker 1: On the one hand, it is the supply side issues,
Speaker 1: So there are like not enough schools, there are not
Speaker 1: enough safe schools, the quality of teaching is not good.
Speaker 1: Distance to school is a big challenge, safety at school
Speaker 1: is a big problem. So because of all of these reasons,
Speaker 1: girl is not in school in many places, there are
Speaker 1: not enough high schools for girls. So people have invested
Speaker 1: enough in primary but have not invested enough in the
Speaker 1: secondary education of guls. But then at the same time,
Speaker 1: there are also like cultural and social norms where you know,
Speaker 1: it's become a taboo where girls are not allowed to
Speaker 1: be in school. We're seeing this happen in Afghanistan and
Speaker 1: many other parts of the world where just education is
Speaker 1: discouraged for girls. There are just too many restrictions that
Speaker 1: girls face. But I do believe that, you know, there
Speaker 1: is a way for us to work towards solving these problems,
Speaker 1: and I think it has to start with investing in education.
Speaker 1: We have to address the supply side issues first, because
Speaker 1: you want to make a school before you go and
Speaker 1: address the more like you know, the social stigma or
Speaker 1: you know, how do we change the mentality and sometimes
Speaker 1: those things just happen naturally. We have seen in many areas,
Speaker 1: including my parents' village in Pakistan, where once the school
Speaker 1: was built and a state of the art education was provided.
Speaker 1: The norms started changing themselves because they saw that, they
Speaker 1: saw the real power of education. How these girls are
Speaker 1: like are you know, are having these different career paths
Speaker 1: that they could achieve. They could not only be helping themselves,
Speaker 1: but they could be helping their families as well. And
Speaker 1: everybody realizes that it's actually a benefit to the community
Speaker 1: as well. When a girl receives her education, there's economic empowerment,
Speaker 1: there's more prosperity, powerty reduces, and you know, it's for
Speaker 1: the benefit of everybody when girls are receiving an education,
Speaker 1: including men and boys, it helps men and boys as
Speaker 1: well when we have more women educated and empowered.
Speaker 2: Talk about that, because I think that's a challenge that's
Speaker 2: being talked about in the West right now, at least
Speaker 2: this idea in America that now, if you look, women
Speaker 2: are more likely to graduate, they're qualifying more than men are.
Speaker 2: And that's an interesting talking point. Talk to us about
Speaker 2: how women being educated is actually good for men as well.
Speaker 1: Educated and empowered women actually are helping men in their
Speaker 1: families as well. You know, I do not know about
Speaker 1: like every country in every context, but I have seen
Speaker 1: how this shift has happened where the boys were sort
Speaker 1: of usually told like, you are supposed to be the breadwinner.
Speaker 1: The girl is married off, but the boys are supposed
Speaker 1: to be taking care of the family. But if the
Speaker 1: girl is also able to get her education, she can
Speaker 1: also contribute to the family. It reduces the burden that
Speaker 1: is expected from the boys, and that everybody is contributing
Speaker 1: to the family and everybody can look after each other
Speaker 1: as well. We have also seen that when like more
Speaker 1: women are educated and there are open conversations about you know,
Speaker 1: the role of men and like challenging gender stereotypes, that
Speaker 1: can help us have better you know, feminist men or
Speaker 1: like men who appreciate women's rights and they're like, so,
Speaker 1: you know, we need we need better sons, we need
Speaker 1: better brothers, we need better husbands and fathers as well.
Speaker 1: So you know, I think working for girl's education is
Speaker 1: sort of a way in which we can have more
Speaker 1: productive and helpful conversations and see this cultural shift. And
Speaker 1: at the same time, like when we talk about investing
Speaker 1: in guls education and talk about policy change that also
Speaker 1: directly benefits boys education, it's never about like invest in
Speaker 1: girls schools only it's about invest in every school, but
Speaker 1: let's come up with gender inclusive policy, so we are
Speaker 1: addressing the problems that specifically cause girls to drop out
Speaker 1: or that can help us and show that a girl
Speaker 1: makes it to the next year in her school can
Speaker 1: also help us. You know, when it's generally inclusive, it
Speaker 1: can also address the problems that boys are also facing.
Speaker 2: Wonderful answer. How how prevalent is child marriage still?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean child marriage is still a big issue
Speaker 1: in many countries and sometimes you know, we sort of
Speaker 1: see news how the law is also being reversed. I
Speaker 1: think I heard about it happening in I think Iraq,
Speaker 1: which is like really crazy. I think it should it
Speaker 1: should be a law in every country where, like you know,
Speaker 1: a child should not be married off. It should be
Speaker 1: just illegal, it should be banned, and people who do
Speaker 1: it should be held accountable for that. And at the
Speaker 1: same time, we need to sort of change change and
Speaker 1: challenge the culture around it as well. So you know,
Speaker 1: using storytelling, TV shows and stuff like that can also
Speaker 1: help us to to change to change these perspectives. But
Speaker 1: it's it's an it's an issue that is affecting many girls,
Speaker 1: including in Pakistan, India and other parts of the world.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can agree with you more. Thank you for
Speaker 2: those two parts. I'll put into the episode accordingly. I
Speaker 2: took a little detO question number four of the final
Speaker 2: five what does peace look like for you today?
Speaker 1: So when you asked about peace, I just think about
Speaker 1: world peace immediately, because I have lived under a time
Speaker 1: when we used to hear gunshots and suicide attacks and bombings,
Speaker 1: and you know, like every ten minutes you would hear
Speaker 1: a sound and you were just worried, like whose house
Speaker 1: has been targeted? Who has lost their life? So when
Speaker 1: somebody asks me about peace, I don't think about like,
Speaker 1: you know, peace at heart or you know, being at
Speaker 1: peace with yourself. I usually think about world peace, and
Speaker 1: you know, I just I hope bombings, I hope wars stop.
Speaker 1: You know, we have to speak out against it. You
Speaker 1: know what I have experienced personally, and and how I
Speaker 1: have seen other girls and boys being targeted at school,
Speaker 1: and and you know how they have lost their loved ones,
Speaker 1: how they themselves have been injured. I met Palestinian refugees
Speaker 1: in Egypt just a few weeks ago, and I just saw,
Speaker 1: like you know, they were injured, they had lost a sibling,
Speaker 1: They were separated from their family members. It is just
Speaker 1: heartbreaking how absence of peace is taking away the right
Speaker 1: to life from from so many people. They cannot live
Speaker 1: a normal life that we all, you know, most of
Speaker 1: us are are our privileged to have. So when I
Speaker 1: am at moments when i I'm just like looking outside the
Speaker 1: window and I and I see a normal life, I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 1: you know there are normal cars, and people are walking around,
Speaker 1: and and people are chatting and laughing, and there's no bombing,
Speaker 1: no firing. Buildings are not destroyed. I just feel grateful,
Speaker 1: but I wish that for everybody. I think it has
Speaker 1: to stop. These are all human made things. They're not
Speaker 1: happening itself. These are human made. We have to really
Speaker 1: question ourselves about the hatred that is created, these hateful
Speaker 1: ideologies that are created, how people are being dehumanized, Like
Speaker 1: the dehumanization of people is a very big problem. That's
Speaker 1: where it begins, and that's what worries me the most
Speaker 1: when I think about, like, you know, what's happening to
Speaker 1: women and gults in Afghanistan. They're being considered as second
Speaker 1: class humans. When we think about these different wars that
Speaker 1: are happening or what's happening in Gaza. It's you know,
Speaker 1: it's like the dehumanization. So you know, I hope that
Speaker 1: people see each other as equal. We see you know,
Speaker 1: our we see ourselves in in in other people, and
Speaker 1: we you know, stand up to this. You know, these
Speaker 1: arms and these like violent tools that are being spread
Speaker 1: in the world because it's it's it's a big problem.
Speaker 1: So I wish for real world peace and then that
Speaker 1: would give me peace and I would feel more at
Speaker 1: peace with my with myself.
Speaker 2: What would you say to a young girl who looks
Speaker 2: at the state of the world and doesn't feel hopeful
Speaker 2: right now?
Speaker 1: I would tell her, you know, I felt that many times.
Speaker 1: I still feel it many times, but then I remind
Speaker 1: myself that there's something that I can do today. I
Speaker 1: feel that we all have the capacity to drive for change.
Speaker 1: So sometimes we want the world to change, we want
Speaker 1: somebody else to make it happen, but we cannot wait
Speaker 1: for it to happen itself or for somebody else to
Speaker 1: do it for us. Sometimes it's us who can be
Speaker 1: that change maker. So I don't want you to lose hope.
Speaker 1: So I don't want you to lose hope, and I
Speaker 1: want you to know that you could be the change maker.
Speaker 1: You could shift things and you could drive change.
Speaker 2: And fift and final question, we asked this to every
Speaker 2: guest who's ever been on the show. If you could
Speaker 2: create one law that ever in the world had to follow,
Speaker 2: what would it be?
Speaker 1: One law? You know, I'm not like that aggressive. I'm
Speaker 1: not authoritarian. Though I have a lot of laws and
Speaker 1: rules for my husband and my brothers and my dad,
Speaker 1: a lot of rules for men. Maybe we should just
Speaker 1: have just rules for men who cause a lot of problems.
Speaker 1: I mean, I you know, I do see the significance
Speaker 1: of creating laws on the one hand, because you know,
Speaker 1: what's happening in Afghanistan is beyond just gender discrimination, and
Speaker 1: if we look at the current laws in the international system,
Speaker 1: it cannot recognize the scale of the oppression that is
Speaker 1: happening there. So that's exactly why Afghan women activists are
Speaker 1: advocating for it to be recognized as a gender apartheid
Speaker 1: in the Crime against Humanity Treaty, which basically means is
Speaker 1: that like countries should not just be allowed to look
Speaker 1: away or normalize relationships with the Taliban, or just simply
Speaker 1: condemn it and just feel like, Okay, you know, we
Speaker 1: have done our job. That countries should be obliged to
Speaker 1: respond and countries should be held accountable to respond, and
Speaker 1: they cannot be allowed to normalize relationships with oppressive regimes
Speaker 1: like the Taliban. So I think, you know better laws
Speaker 1: are really important. We just need more protection for guls' rights.
Speaker 1: And right now it is a crime for girls to
Speaker 1: be learning in Afghanistan. Let's process that they're punished if
Speaker 1: they disobey this rule, because the Taliban are abusing their
Speaker 1: power and they're punishing women, putting them in prisons if
Speaker 1: they disobey any of their absurd rules and restrictions that
Speaker 1: they have imposed. But on the other hand, if we
Speaker 1: look at our international law system, it is not recognizing
Speaker 1: what the Taliban are doing as a crime. I think
Speaker 1: the ban on education in itself should be recognized as
Speaker 1: an international crime and the Taliban should be held accountable
Speaker 1: for that. So I do believe that there is a
Speaker 1: huge significance in creating laws that can protect the right
Speaker 1: to education for girls and that can protect the rights
Speaker 1: of women and vulnerable communities. At the same time, I
Speaker 1: also think it's about you know, how we change as
Speaker 1: people and how we do things differently, and how we
Speaker 1: challenge ourselves. You know, we don't need we don't necessarily
Speaker 1: need laws to be acting differently. Like you know, the
Speaker 1: most powerful thing is free will, and we all have
Speaker 1: the free will to be better, to be doing the
Speaker 1: right thing. We don't necessarily need laws. So sometimes I
Speaker 1: just also think about us doing better and just being
Speaker 1: more responsible, standing up for what is right, standing against injustices,
Speaker 1: and sharing solidarity with those who are oppressed and who
Speaker 1: need our support.
Speaker 2: Melala, thank you so much for.
Speaker 1: It wasn't one word right now, it's.
Speaker 2: Brilliant is thank you so much for writing this book
Speaker 2: Finding My Way, Thank you for coming and sharing it
Speaker 2: with our community here today, and thank you for having
Speaker 2: the courage to continue to find courage in all your
Speaker 2: different transitions and phases of life. I thank you. It
Speaker 2: feels like you've lived in different lives in you know,
Speaker 2: the short span that you've been here on Earth. But
Speaker 2: your words, your actions, your work affects millions and millions
Speaker 2: and millions of people every day. Thank you.
Speaker 1: I just want to say one final thing that you know,
Speaker 1: we talked about a lot of things I have talked
Speaker 1: about many topics, but one thing that I feel people
Speaker 1: don't know about me is that I am a very
Speaker 1: funny person. Yes, so I want people to know that.
Speaker 1: You know, in this book, of course, I'm talking about
Speaker 1: very important topics, but humor is something that has helped
Speaker 1: me through life in many ways, and humor is everything
Speaker 1: to me. So I laugh through many things. I laugh
Speaker 1: about many things, and so you know, you will learn
Speaker 1: a lot about this book, but you will also be uh,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, laughing with me or you know,
Speaker 1: you yeah.
Speaker 2: Or at me, because you know, the first thing Malala
Speaker 2: said to me when she came in the room today,
Speaker 2: she was like, your wife's a lot cooler than you.
Speaker 2: And I was like, yeah, my wife's a and she goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: you don't even need to say that out loud. I
Speaker 2: was like, wow, I'm being roasted already.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 2: I think your humor shone through in so many moments
Speaker 2: today and it's a beautiful part of who you are,
Speaker 2: and I'm so glad you're sharing it, and I'm so
Speaker 2: glad you're showing us what a full human looks like,
Speaker 2: you know, beyond the symbol, beyond a role you play,
Speaker 2: but what it means to have feelings and relationships. Yes,
Speaker 2: in their lives.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, This is me reintroducing myself and the most important
Speaker 1: thing is being true to yourself. That is the most
Speaker 1: important message from me.
Speaker 2: Thank you aller. I'm so grateful, Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 3: If you enjoyed this podcast, you're going to love my
Speaker 3: conversation with Michelle Obama where she opens up on how
Speaker 3: to stay with your partner when they're changing, and the
Speaker 3: four check ins you should be doing in your relationship.
Speaker 3: We also talk about how to deal with relationships when
Speaker 3: they're under stress.
Speaker 2: If you're going through something right now with your partner,
Speaker 2: uh or someone you're seeing, this is the episode for you.
Speaker 4: No wonder our kids are struggling. We have a new
Speaker 4: technology and we've just taken it in hookline and Sinker,
Speaker 4: and we have to be mindful for our kids. They'll
Speaker 4: just be thumbing through this stuff. You know, their mind's
Speaker 4: never sleeping.