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Speaker 1: Hey guys, we're back on normally the show with normal

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Speaker 1: it takes for when the news gets weird. I'm Mary

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Speaker 1: Catherine Camp.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Carol Markowitz. How is your weekend, Mary Catherine.

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Speaker 1: Oh, it's pretty good. I was offline for about thirty

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Speaker 1: six hours, so that's always fun. I was camping with

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Speaker 1: no signal.

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Speaker 2: Oh nice. I love that.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I don't love camping, but I do love

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Speaker 3: the being offline. I don't mind camping. It's a surprising

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Speaker 3: fact about me, is I am totally okay with one

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Speaker 3: night of camping.

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Speaker 1: I'm really I would say I'm only okay with camping

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Speaker 1: as well, Like it's like I will do it and

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Speaker 1: while I'm there, I'm making the best of it. But

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Speaker 1: it's a little off brand for me not to be

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Speaker 1: very excited about it.

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Speaker 2: Frank, Yes, I see that.

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Speaker 3: So I had a very unpopular tweet last night, and

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Speaker 3: I felt like a lot of people were like, we'll

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Speaker 3: talk to Mary Catherine about this because she will set

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Speaker 3: you straight.

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Speaker 2: And so I will say.

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Speaker 3: I feel like my Slice of Life tweets A do

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Speaker 3: very well and B are usually people are on my side,

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Speaker 3: so this was a bit of a surprise. But last night,

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Speaker 3: an NFL player on TV live, well not live, it

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Speaker 3: was pre recorded, but it was played live said nut

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Speaker 3: up or shut up on NBC.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't even eight pm.

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Speaker 3: Yet am I approved for thinking that is unacceptable?

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Speaker 1: I think that I would not react badly to it.

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Speaker 1: But I also judge myself for not reacting badly.

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Speaker 3: So funny because I judge myself for reacting badly, I'm like,

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Speaker 3: have I become like a square in my old age?

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Speaker 2: Because I used to not care at all?

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Speaker 3: But you know, my thing is, I just feel like censorship,

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Speaker 3: like like makes no sense. There's a Kanye West song

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Speaker 3: I used to love, you know. I hate Kanye now,

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Speaker 3: but I used to you know, I loved his music.

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Speaker 3: I still love his music, honestly. But he had a

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Speaker 3: song where he was There was love letter Chicago, and

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Speaker 3: there was a line in it.

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Speaker 2: Her name was Windy. She liked to blow trees.

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Speaker 3: Now it's a double chandra about smoking marijuana, but that

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Speaker 3: would get beeped out on the radio.

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Speaker 2: Her name was Windy, she liked to.

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Speaker 3: Blow trees about a song about Chicago was beeped out

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Speaker 3: on the radio. And yet this guy could stay nut

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Speaker 3: up or shut up at a time, where like.

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Speaker 2: Kids are still watching and my kids were watching.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't make a lot of sense which things

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Speaker 1: you can say. And having worked in live radio, we

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Speaker 1: were well versed on things you could say. For instance,

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Speaker 1: the word I believe this is correct. The word piss

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Speaker 1: excuse me could be used in certain contexts but not others,

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Speaker 1: Like you couldn't refer to it as actual, the actual substance,

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Speaker 1: but you could refer to someone as pissed off. Like

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Speaker 1: it was like, yeah, there's all sorts of strange rules

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Speaker 1: that they put on you.

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Speaker 2: I feel like it was Cable.

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't even care, but like NBC on a Sunday night,

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Speaker 3: not even a pianist.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a bit much, Get off my lawn. I don't care.

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Speaker 2: I stand by what I said. I'm a square now

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Speaker 2: that was square, and I don't even care. It's good,

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Speaker 2: all right, let's.

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Speaker 1: Get real free us. Well, speaking of normally, Carol, it

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Speaker 1: looks like the government might be operating normally now. I mean, look,

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Speaker 1: it's greatered on a curve, guys, But it looks like

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Speaker 1: the government will be eminently reopening thanks to a vote

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Speaker 1: in the Senate, which will then proceed a pace to

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Speaker 1: the House right. So.

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Speaker 3: The Wall Street Journal reports the decision by eight members

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Speaker 3: of the Senate Democratic Caucus decide with Republicans to advance

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Speaker 3: a bill Sunday night to end the government shutdown drew

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Speaker 3: heated condemnations from other members of the party and reopened

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Speaker 3: long standing divisions on how to best fight against President Trump.

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Speaker 3: Democrats were coming off strong election wins last Tuesday, and

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Speaker 3: many lawmakers and activists said the results showed that Senate

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Speaker 3: Democrats should continue to hold the line on their demands

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Speaker 3: for extending Enhanced Affordable Care Act subsidies. But the small

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Speaker 3: group of defectors reasoned Sunday that the shutdown had caused

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Speaker 3: too much pain and that the modest concessions from Republicans,

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Speaker 3: including a pledge to hold a vote on healthcare, were enough.

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Speaker 3: The Democrats are losing their minds over this, like we

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Speaker 3: hear that blue sky is just falling apart.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think it's important to emphasize the

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Speaker 1: facts on this, which are Let me just read through

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Speaker 1: the dates on which the government could have reopened. September nineteenth,

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Speaker 1: September thirtieth, October first, October third, October sixth. These are

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Speaker 1: all dates the Senate took a vote on the continuing Resolution,

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Speaker 1: which would have funded the government. Yeah, and everything would

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Speaker 1: have seamlessly reopened without any of this happening. I'll go

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Speaker 1: on October eighth, October ninth, October fourteenth, October fifteenth, sixteenth, twentieth,

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Speaker 1: twenty second, twenty eighth, November fourth. So I believe there's

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Speaker 1: a total of fourteen votes, and it was Democrats who

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Speaker 1: would not cross over to join Republicans to vote for

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Speaker 1: this clean continuing resolution was for these not to put

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Speaker 1: too fine a point on it. Stupid and dumb and

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Speaker 1: bad bumped up subsidies from the COVID era for Obamacare,

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Speaker 1: which we're designed to go to insurance companies to the

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Speaker 1: tune of billions and billions and tens of billions of

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Speaker 1: dollars to cover up the fact that premiums are going up. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because of what Obamacare has wrought, right, that was the ask.

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Speaker 1: They didn't get the ask, so they did all this

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Speaker 1: for six weeks.

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Speaker 3: Really not a yeah, there's just I mean the fact

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Speaker 3: that they allowed this to go on this long. Senator

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Speaker 3: John Fetterman has been actually completely on the right side

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Speaker 3: of this. I can't believe what an amazing figure he

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Speaker 3: is in the Senate.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure he's going to disappoint me down the road,

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Speaker 2: but there's so much.

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Speaker 3: Day does as good, he tweeted after forty days as

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Speaker 3: a consistent voice against shutting our government down, I voted

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Speaker 3: yes for.

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Speaker 2: The fifteenth time to reopen.

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry to our military SNAP recipient, government workers and

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Speaker 3: Capitol police who haven't been paid weeks.

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Speaker 2: It shouldn't have come to this. This was a failure.

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Speaker 2: It's absolutely right.

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Speaker 1: Well, and look, one might fairly ask of me, are

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Speaker 1: you consistent on this? And I would say yes, because

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Speaker 1: when Ted Cruz decided we should shut down the government

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Speaker 1: in twenty thirteen to repeal Obamacare, I was like, that's

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Speaker 1: not going to happen. And you are therefore leading yourself

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Speaker 1: to political problems and two real problems for real people. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: by disrupting the government in this manner, and I look,

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Speaker 1: if somebody is willing to take on the political cost

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Speaker 1: because they feel like this is a really important issue

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Speaker 1: and we must talk about it, That's one thing what

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Speaker 1: I don't like is this being turned on its head

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Speaker 1: where Democrats have now been rewarded for shutting down the

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Speaker 1: government for six weeks, which is what happened here. They

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Speaker 1: kind of signaled to their voters the chaos, even though

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Speaker 1: we're literally causing it, is Trump's chaos, right, and many

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Speaker 1: people bought that despite me fourteen dates I gave you

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Speaker 1: where they could have opened the government at any moment, right.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, it was a political calculation for them. They waited

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Speaker 3: until the election to cause as much damage as they

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Speaker 3: could to their own voters so that their voters would

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Speaker 3: vote their way. And you don't have to take our

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Speaker 3: word for it. Here is Senator Kane talking about it.

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Speaker 4: I didn't fully understand how dug in they were, again

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Speaker 4: because I was so focused on the Virginia elections. I

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Speaker 4: wasn't in this discussion on the healthcare to see how

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Speaker 4: dug in they were. But even as I was not

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Speaker 4: part of these discussions, I was saying to Fune and

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Speaker 4: others on the floor, going back, listen, I need you

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Speaker 4: some of you heard me say this in the all.

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Speaker 4: I need a more attarium on mischief. Others are working

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Speaker 4: on the healthcare thing, I trust them. Others are working

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Speaker 4: on the approached thing, I trust them. I need a

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Speaker 4: moretirement mischief because if we vote to open and then

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Speaker 4: the immediate step next week is Donald Trump fires a

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Speaker 4: lot more people. It's going to blow up trust to

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Speaker 4: get the full year deal. And so I've been I've

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Speaker 4: been preaching this moratorium on mischief for a month. But

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Speaker 4: I think partly why did they finally give me the

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Speaker 4: moratorium on mischief on riffs? They needed my vote, But

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Speaker 4: they also saw the election on two.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that wasn't it.

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Speaker 3: I really don't think that election actually played that big

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Speaker 3: a role. Here here is ezraclined in the New York

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Speaker 3: Times on how Democrats were winning the shutdown to keep

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Speaker 3: the shutdown going. He says, if I were in the Senate,

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't vote for this compromise. Shutdowns are an opportunity

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Speaker 3: to make your arguments in the country was just starting

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Speaker 3: to pay attention. If Trump wanted to cancel flights over

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Speaker 3: Thanksgiving rather than keep health care costs down, I don't

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Speaker 3: see why Democrats should save him from making his priorities

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Speaker 3: so exquisitely clear. And I worry that Democrats have just

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Speaker 3: taught Trump that they will fold under pressure. That's the

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Speaker 3: kind of lesson.

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Speaker 2: He remembers.

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Speaker 3: I think a lot of people understood what we were

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Speaker 3: talking about last episode, that the elections weren't a symbol

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Speaker 3: or a sign. They were off yer elections in largely

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Speaker 3: blue areas and they were supposed to go that way.

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Speaker 3: So using the elections as some sort of like you know,

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Speaker 3: sign here that the Democrats were winning and it was

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Speaker 3: all going to be okay is ridiculous. And it would

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Speaker 3: have been the Democrats canceling flights over Thanksgiving. Whether or

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Speaker 3: not Republicans could appropriately tell that story is a separate issue.

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Speaker 2: The thing would have been their fault.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's the thing, and I think it's it's revealing

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Speaker 1: of Klein here that he's mister, make government work properly.

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Speaker 1: But when given a chance to make government work properly

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Speaker 1: or to continue to drag Republicans for who knows what

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Speaker 1: by making it work improperly, he chooses, Let's blow it up.

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Speaker 1: Continue to blow it up. Let people live Thanksgiving where

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Speaker 1: they cannot travel to see their loved ones, just as

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Speaker 1: we did. By the way, let's memorialize our twenty twenty behavior,

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Speaker 1: our twenty twenty one behavior and say, yeah, you can't

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Speaker 1: see your loved ones, suck it. Excuse me. That's not

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Speaker 1: fit for broadcasts either, I don't think.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, he's.

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Speaker 3: Choosing politics over abundance governing, which is his kind of

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Speaker 3: his thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and a lot of people are saying, look,

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Speaker 1: I do think I think it's the morally right decision

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Speaker 1: to try to get this thing back on track. I

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Speaker 1: think the ask that they were making was a stupid one. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: those subsidies don't make any sense. They were designed to

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Speaker 1: be emergency and temporary, and they were dumb at even

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Speaker 1: doing that. Now there are risks for Republicans here, which

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Speaker 1: is that there's now a healthcare discussion on the plate. Now.

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Speaker 1: I don't mind having that discussion. I wrote in Fox

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Speaker 1: News last week about why these subsidies are bad, why

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Speaker 1: they revealed that Obamacare was bad from the beginning, and

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Speaker 1: why we should shift to more patient focused, choice related

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Speaker 1: reforms that are small that you can give people control

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Speaker 1: over their money, which is, by the way, one of

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Speaker 1: the things Trump was pitching, saying, Hey, if we're going

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Speaker 1: to give away a bunch of money, let's give it

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Speaker 1: away to people's health savings accounts so they can use

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Speaker 1: it as they see fit. Yeah, which I think is

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Speaker 1: something that could appeal to people.

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Speaker 2: I think so as well.

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Speaker 3: I think the Democrats are going to oppose it with

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Speaker 3: every bone in their entire bodies, and the thing is

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Speaker 3: that they have to cater to the blue sky crowd.

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Speaker 3: They're taking lessons from the election. One of the one

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Speaker 3: of the election lessons for them is the far left

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Speaker 3: socialist mayor is the most popular Democrat in the country

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Speaker 3: right now. They're going to take that lesson and run

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Speaker 3: with it. I think it's not going to be good

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Speaker 3: for Americans, but I don't think that matters, and I

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Speaker 3: think that they don't care right now, and stopping Donald

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Speaker 3: Trump and getting political wins is all they care about

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Speaker 3: right now.

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Speaker 1: Well, and you see it outlined in the New York

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Speaker 1: Times covered where they're going to have primary duels because

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Speaker 1: Democrats are facing what Republicans face during the Tea Party era,

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Speaker 1: which is a bunch of ground up anger about how

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Speaker 1: they're not fighting the president that the base doesn't like

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Speaker 1: hard enough. The base is not listening to how it

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Speaker 1: might be advantageous for them to fight in different ways.

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Speaker 1: I think part of the reason they waited past the

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Speaker 1: election was, and they expressed this like on background to Axios,

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Speaker 1: was that Democrats were scared of their voters being literally homicidal,

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Speaker 1: and they were like, we have to keep giving them something,

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Speaker 1: right people. I mean they expressed that in actual words, them,

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Speaker 1: not me. So I think they were looking for that,

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Speaker 1: hoping that these election results would cheer them up a

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Speaker 1: little bit on blue sky. That won't be the case

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Speaker 1: for a lot of normal people. It probably will. And

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Speaker 1: then you have this same dynamic at play in every

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Speaker 1: Senate and House primary that could be flippable in the

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty six elections. So, even though Trump's approval rating

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Speaker 1: is down, Republicans not faring well post this election. I

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Speaker 1: think they have things to think about. They may get

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Speaker 1: themselves into some serious trouble with the energy and the

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Speaker 1: excitement behind people in primaries who might not be electable

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Speaker 1: in general elections.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, seen this film before.

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Speaker 1: Yep, mister nazi tattoo among those.

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Speaker 2: Right right. We'll see how that goes.

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Speaker 1: Meanwhile, did you see Abigail Spanberger, who, like again I've said,

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Speaker 1: she didn't moderate on much of anything. She was on

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Speaker 1: the Sunday shows this week being like, hey, guys, the

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Speaker 1: reason I was elected is because Virginia's think the government

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Speaker 1: should operate properly. Maybe let's not do this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah it snay on the U shut down exactly.

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Speaker 1: She just doing her Betsy out there.

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Speaker 2: Right, we'll be right back with more on normally. We

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Speaker 2: are back on normally.

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Speaker 3: And look, it's not just Democrats that have some questionable ideas.

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump floated two such ideas over the weekend. You

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Speaker 3: know I've said on here before that, especially on economics,

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Speaker 3: I defer to him a lot more this term than

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Speaker 3: last term.

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Speaker 2: I'm still a free market person.

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Speaker 3: I just don't see the free market like I If

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Speaker 3: other countries are tariffing us at high levels, like I

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Speaker 3: get why we would reciprocate. I also understand using the

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Speaker 3: tariffs as leverage in a way that, like as he does,

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Speaker 3: does it bring down costs? All remains to be seen

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Speaker 3: so far, not so much so. This weekend he floats

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Speaker 3: two ideas, and one of them is a fifty year mortgage.

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Speaker 2: He has a post.

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Speaker 3: On his truth Social Great American presidents. He has President

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Speaker 3: Franklin Delano Roosevelt, who introduced the thirty year mortgage, and

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Speaker 3: then he has a picture of himself, President Trump, who

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Speaker 3: is introducing the fifty year mortgage.

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Speaker 1: I mean, look, if you're just measuring in years, that's

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Speaker 1: obviously better. Like here we go, it's just top FDR.

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Speaker 3: I also don't think Republicans generally see FDR as a

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Speaker 3: great American president.

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Speaker 2: I see him as one of the worst presidents we've

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Speaker 2: ever had.

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Speaker 3: So I don't love that he's looking to FDR for

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Speaker 3: tips on.

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Speaker 2: Being a great president.

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Speaker 3: But again on this, like, okay, the argument obviously is

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Speaker 3: who benefits here banks because they're going to have have

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Speaker 3: an extra twenty years of you know, of costs and

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Speaker 3: they're just gonna they're going to do very well on

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Speaker 3: interest rates here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: The flip side argument is people can't afford houses, and

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Speaker 3: they will be willing to take the chance that they Yes,

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Speaker 3: they'll pay more in the long run, but at least

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Speaker 3: they'll have the house now, and they will say, you know,

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Speaker 3: build equity and not be throwing their money away.

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Speaker 2: And rent I get it, I really get it. It's

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Speaker 2: not conservative for sure, and that's you know, a long

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Speaker 2: running problem or issue with the Trump administration. Does it

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Speaker 2: matter that he is not conservative on these issues?

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Speaker 3: Is he trying new things out of the box that

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Speaker 3: maybe conservatives will adapt to all kind of a big

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Speaker 3: question mark.

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Speaker 1: Well, and that's it might be too easy or too

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Speaker 1: facil a phrase, but I find it useful, which is

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Speaker 1: at times like this. I'm like, look, this is the

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Speaker 1: choice that faced many voters, which is, if you give

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Speaker 1: me a nineteen eighty nine Democrat and a twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: five Democrat, yep, to choose between, I'm going to take

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Speaker 1: the eighty nine Democrat, right, Yeah, because the twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: five Democrats have lost their way. But Trump is in

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Speaker 1: many ways an early nineties, late eighties Democrat. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: an early nineties, late eighties Democrat would like this idea,

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Speaker 1: would like tariffs, would even think FDR was a pretty

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Speaker 1: awesome president on domestic economic fronts. Right, And so that's

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Speaker 1: what you end up with. I think these are not

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Speaker 1: great ideas. And I think beyond that, Trump when talking

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Speaker 1: about some specific industries because he's trying to get back

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Speaker 1: to an affordability argument because he's concerned about vulnerabilities there.

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Speaker 1: For twenty twenty six, he's gone way too far to

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Speaker 1: the Elizabeth Warren argument that the companies themselves are messing

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Speaker 1: with you. This has nothing to do with anything else

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Speaker 1: that supply and demand. Oh, let's put that aside, and

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Speaker 1: that like greed flation is back. Greed flation is not

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Speaker 1: a thing, not a thing. Companies, companies like they're trying

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Speaker 1: to do the best they can. They have to hit

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Speaker 1: profit margins then to in order to continue to operate.

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Speaker 1: There is real crony capitalism involved, and I you know,

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Speaker 1: those are things that you can eliminate if you're a

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Speaker 1: conservative president who would like to do those things, and

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Speaker 1: sometimes he has, but you know, yelling about the companies

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Speaker 1: and their profit margins isn't the conservative way of dealing

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Speaker 1: with this. And I think one of the ways that

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Speaker 1: Trump has been good in the past is eliminating regulations,

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Speaker 1: which for building, which would be a really great thing

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Speaker 1: to do for housing costs.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that that is one of his strengths.

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Speaker 3: That was like probably one of my favorite things in

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Speaker 3: the first Trump administration. Getting rid of regulations was incredibly

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Speaker 3: strong and something that Republicans hadn't done that well in

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Speaker 3: the past. His other idea from this weekend, he posted

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Speaker 3: about sending out two thousand dollars stimulus checks. His post is,

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Speaker 3: people that are against tariffs are fulls capital letters. We

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Speaker 3: are now well the richest, most respected country in the world,

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Speaker 3: with almost no inflation and a record stock market price.

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Speaker 3: I should tell you there's random capitalization.

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Speaker 2: All throughout that. Of course, your one case, our highest ever.

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Speaker 3: We are taking in trillions of dollars and will soon

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Speaker 3: begin paying down our enormous debt. Thirty seven trillion, record

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Speaker 3: investment in the USA, Plants and factories going up all

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Speaker 3: over the place. A dividend of at least two thousand

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Speaker 3: dollars a person, not including high income people exclamation point

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Speaker 3: will be paid to everyone. Terrible, terrible, and look and

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Speaker 3: you know here we can't really make the argument that, oh,

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Speaker 3: you know, he's out of step with like the Republicans

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Speaker 3: of yesteryear.

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Speaker 2: Georgia B.

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Speaker 3: Bush also sent out stimulus checks. So after nine to eleven,

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Speaker 3: terrible idea. Stimulus checks are inflationary. They pump more money

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Speaker 3: into the economy, prices go up. I'm not a finance

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Speaker 3: person at all, but like it's a.

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Speaker 2: Very easy line to draw, and.

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Speaker 3: It's what happened during COVID and the money that the

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Speaker 3: government was pumping into the economy, which we still have

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Speaker 3: not recovered from.

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Speaker 2: I still like I'm a gasper.

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Speaker 3: At prices sometimes, like just like how could that be

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Speaker 3: the price of that?

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Speaker 1: Well, and think about it from everyone's point of view,

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Speaker 1: like if you and I are having that reaction, and

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Speaker 1: I usually use this like Obviously I live in a

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Speaker 1: high cost of living area. That's part of it. Actually,

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Speaker 1: there are times when I order a beer in North

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Speaker 1: Carolina and I'm like, I'm sorry, what three fifty did

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Speaker 1: you get? That? I had to But but we live

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Speaker 1: in a high cost of living area. That's part of it.

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Speaker 1: But given that I know my economic status versus many

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Speaker 1: more struggling people to go into a grocery store and

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Speaker 1: regularly go, oh my good, yeah how much that cost?

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Speaker 2: Now? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Like that is that is reflected in much bigger ways,

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Speaker 1: much further down the actos we're not.

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Speaker 3: Shopping at, like the Arawons in California where they have

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Speaker 3: like the thirty five dollars jug of water. It's like

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Speaker 3: I had I saw a seven dollars mango yesterday, Like,

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Speaker 3: what what's in that mango?

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Speaker 1: It should be your book title about inflation seven dollars mango? No,

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Speaker 1: I think. Look, unfortunately, and I have thought this throughout,

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Speaker 1: the tariff arguments end up being pretty incoherent, like are

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Speaker 1: we doing them to raise revenue? Are we doing them

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Speaker 1: to bring back investing? Are we doing them to give

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Speaker 1: stimulus checks to people for trumpets? Often I like tariffs,

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Speaker 1: and we will find the quickest path to justifying what

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Speaker 1: the tariff is doing at any given moment. I went

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Speaker 1: into that with open eyes. Right, he was elected. Let's

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Speaker 1: say he gets to do his thing for a while.

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Speaker 2: Exactly right. But I say he ran on this, so.

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Speaker 1: I do think, and I've always thought from the beginning

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Speaker 1: that on affordability, if you are making the argument from

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Speaker 1: the beginning that this is short term pain but long

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Speaker 1: term gain, you better see that game pretty quickly. And

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Speaker 1: people are right to go. You're telling me, you're adding

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Speaker 1: to prices. That's what you're telling me. And that's what

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Speaker 1: he's trying to ameliorate by sending money out the door again.

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Speaker 1: But much like subsidizing Obamacare subsidy or plans, or giving

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Speaker 1: unlimited credit to college students, it will make the problem

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Speaker 1: blum worse. That's right, we don't want to do that.

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Speaker 1: One more bad idea from Trump this week, blowing up

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Speaker 1: the filibuster.

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Speaker 2: You know, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: It's not a bad idea, So okay, I wouldn't want

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Speaker 3: him to blow up the filibuster because yes, obviously the

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Speaker 3: Democrats will use it at their very next opportunity.

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Speaker 2: But did it bring the Democrats to the table this

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Speaker 2: is the thing with Trump. Is he a genius or

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Speaker 2: is he like a madman? And like he's kind of

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Speaker 2: a little bit of right woh, and you just don't

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Speaker 2: really know.

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Speaker 1: So my concern was I'm actually a little surprised that

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Speaker 1: a deal came together, given that he was making so

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Speaker 1: much noise about the philibuster, because I thought that Democrats,

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Speaker 1: being rather short sighted themselves, would be like, this is

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Speaker 1: the thing we've always wanted, and if we win, we

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Speaker 1: get to do anything we want. If we can just

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Speaker 1: get fifty Senate seats. I think that's disastrous for America.

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Speaker 1: The Senate is supposed to move slowly and deliberately, even

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Speaker 1: though it's often dumb, it's supposed to be that way.

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Speaker 1: I thought he was giving them a release valve, or

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Speaker 1: they wouldn't come to the table because they'd be like,

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00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:03,639
Speaker 1: we'll just wait for you to do the thing that

441
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,439
Speaker 1: we want you to do. Very fantastic, right, right. But

442
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:08,440
Speaker 1: it didn't turn out that way. So I've often been

443
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 1: wrong when his weird gut calculations have been there, right right.

444
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,440
Speaker 3: I have one little like it, like I have one

445
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,199
Speaker 3: more trump ism for this last you know, for this

446
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:25,560
Speaker 3: middle segment, as we're going to air he posted on

447
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 3: truth Social All air traffic controllers must get back to

448
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 3: work now three exclamation points.

449
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,399
Speaker 2: Anyone who doesn't will be substantially docked.

450
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,240
Speaker 3: For those air traffic controllers who were great patriots and

451
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:38,800
Speaker 3: didn't take any time off for the Democrat shut down hoax,

452
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 3: I will be recommending a bonus of ten thousand dollars

453
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 3: per person for distinguished service to our country.

454
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 2: Now again, is he a genius or a madman?

455
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,240
Speaker 3: Because and then and it goes on and on, you know,

456
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:51,920
Speaker 3: fake Democrat attack. I'm not happy with you to tell

457
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,720
Speaker 3: you the air traffic controllers, but you know, there's something

458
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 3: to be said for the people who stayed on their post.

459
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,359
Speaker 2: When they weren't getting paid. And him introduce seen this

460
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 2: bonus is like, you know, a reward to the people

461
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:04,960
Speaker 2: who did the right thing.

462
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:07,439
Speaker 1: It would be one of the few ways that this

463
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:12,399
Speaker 1: shutdown rewarded good behavior. So yeah, I'm I'm open to it.

464
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,160
Speaker 1: I'm I'm a little surprised that they came to an agreement,

465
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:16,840
Speaker 1: but it is it's the right thing to do.

466
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 2: I mean, let's see if we get we get through it.

467
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:23,120
Speaker 3: But yeah, that's next episode where like actually the shutdown

468
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:23,639
Speaker 3: is still on.

469
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 1: We shall see.

470
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 2: Wait right back with more on normally.

471
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,040
Speaker 1: All right, Carol, I wanted to talk a little bit

472
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,399
Speaker 1: about the uh, the culture war, the anti wokeness of

473
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:40,119
Speaker 1: it all. Even the election day did not look great

474
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,679
Speaker 1: for Republicans, the culture war continues to pay dividends, the

475
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,119
Speaker 1: left having sort of gone off the cliff, and the

476
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 1: New York Times profile of the Sierra Club is just

477
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 1: the latest example. And again it's a bit fascile, but

478
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 1: go woke, go broke seems to be exactly what the

479
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,400
Speaker 1: Sierra Club. The headline is zero. Club embraced social justice

480
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 1: and then it tore itself apart. Just the top lines here.

481
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,880
Speaker 1: The Sierra Club, which was a huge nationwide environmental group

482
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,919
Speaker 1: that was understood to be dedicated to environmental issues for

483
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 1: a very long time. Originally established to protect the Sierra Nevada,

484
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 1: the group has lost sixty percent of the four million

485
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:22,400
Speaker 1: members and supporters it counted in twenty sixteen. It has

486
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,160
Speaker 1: held three rounds of employee layoffs since twenty twenty two,

487
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 1: trying to climb out of a forty million dollar projected

488
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 1: budget deficit deficit. Its political giving has also dropped. Federal

489
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,160
Speaker 1: campaign finance records show it put thirty three point six

490
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 1: million in donations toward the defeat of Donald Trump in

491
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:42,200
Speaker 1: twenty twenty and none in twenty twenty four. Because they

492
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 1: tore themselves apart during those four years.

493
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's also.

494
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 3: The question of their expenses, which just continued to go

495
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 3: up even as revenue did not.

496
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 2: It is a case of what is the point of view?

497
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 3: And I think a lot of people started to kind

498
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,400
Speaker 3: of move away from climate change is going to end

499
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 3: the world tomorrow. I mean, see Bill Gates on that,

500
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 3: and they wanted to maybe put their money towards progressive

501
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 3: causes that had a solution moving in the direction of,

502
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 3: you know, something that they could have as a tangible win.

503
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 2: Well.

504
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 1: And the Sierra Club is interesting because I don't agree

505
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 1: with its old goal, but its old and pretty successful

506
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 1: goal that it built all this support under was we're

507
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 1: going to make it really hard to keep coal plants open.

508
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 1: And they sued and they demonstrated, and they did all

509
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 1: these things and by the numbers, they you know, cut

510
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: down on those things. Now for their constituency, that was

511
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 1: important and good. And after that was done and natural

512
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 1: gas and other alternatives had sort of come into that area,

513
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: not terribly effectively all the time, particularly with wind and electric,

514
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,640
Speaker 1: but again putting aside there whether their goals are good

515
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,919
Speaker 1: or not, they then went on to become everything to

516
00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 1: everyone exactly. They decided that they were going to be diversity, equity, inclusion,

517
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,119
Speaker 1: they were going to be racial justice, they were going

518
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,639
Speaker 1: to be anything and everything, and that did not go

519
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 1: well for them, right, and.

520
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,920
Speaker 2: US a resistance group like any other resistance group.

521
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, their their new focus included focus I use

522
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 1: the term lightly, racial justice, labor rights, gay rights, immigrant rights,

523
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:23,360
Speaker 1: and more. And to this day, the leadership stands by

524
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 1: that shift that has coincided with this incredible contraction of

525
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 1: its membership and ability to do the I would say,

526
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,439
Speaker 1: damaging things that has been doing in the past, Like

527
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 1: I rejoice, but the people you're serving probably shouldn't.

528
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 3: Be, right, right, they got one hundred and twenty million

529
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 3: dollars from Michael Bloomberg, and he could have given every

530
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 3: American a million dollars with that.

531
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 1: I think I think the math is correct.

532
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:51,640
Speaker 3: I'm just joking, friends that look up the Michael Bloomberg

533
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 3: can give every American a million dollars reference New York

534
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 3: Times editorial board member did some poor math on m

535
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 3: that's NBC, and they let her continue to get away

536
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:02,159
Speaker 3: with that.

537
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,919
Speaker 1: There's a couple of funny quotes from this one. My

538
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: favorite one might be there were some people who were

539
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 1: employed by the Sierra Club that felt like if they

540
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,359
Speaker 1: didn't fall in love or file excuse me, fall in

541
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,880
Speaker 1: line with these new directives between twenty twenty and twenty

542
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 1: twenty two, they were ostracized, sometimes even investigated. One woman,

543
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,399
Speaker 1: Delia Malone, and a cologist and volunteer for the club's

544
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 1: Colorado chapter, said she heard from attorneys hired by the

545
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,359
Speaker 1: Sierra Clubs seeking to interview her as part of investigation

546
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 1: against her, and she said, what's the claimant? Who made it?

547
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 1: They said, we can't tell you that, and miss Malone

548
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: thought that someone else in the chapter had filed a complaint.

549
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: She recalled an incident when a club's staff member had

550
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,880
Speaker 1: scolded her for saying that the club should lobby Colorado's

551
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 1: legislature for more protections for wolves that seems within the

552
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 1: club's mediea. One of the staffs said, that's fine, Delia,

553
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 1: but what do wolves have to do with equity, justice

554
00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: and inclusion? Delia? That's fine, Delia, and I also want

555
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: to point to this as the pattern that you point

556
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: out often, which is that they went from effective focused

557
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 1: organization to every racial justice, social justice thing under the sun,

558
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 1: everything to everyone, which meant they became ineffective. At which point,

559
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: what did they do, Carol? They became antie siminek. They

560
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: canceled trip to Israel. They decided that Palestine is an

561
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 1: environmental issue from our standpoint of course. Yeah, and they

562
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 1: just like went headlong into that as well.

563
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:31,879
Speaker 2: Yep, good work everyone.

564
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 3: Also, Sidney Sweeney, that was our other woke story from

565
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 3: the last week.

566
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:37,639
Speaker 1: She gave.

567
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 3: A masterclass in not responding to bait from liberal journalists.

568
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 3: She really you know, the only thing I would say

569
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 3: is her jacket looked a little uncomfortable, and I just

570
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 3: wanted to like flip her hair out of it, because, like,

571
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 3: you know, as a woman with long hair who gets

572
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 3: it caught in my jacket a lot of the time,

573
00:28:57,840 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 3: you know, I know that that's tough.

574
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 2: But she did really great.

575
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's play a little clip of this question she's

576
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 1: asked about her very famous American Eagle ad campaign.

577
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 5: The criticism of the content, which was basically that maybe

578
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 5: specifically in this political climate, like white people shouldn't joke

579
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 5: about genetic superiority. Like that was kind of like.

580
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 2: The criticism broadly speaking.

581
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 5: And since you are talking about this, I just wanted

582
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 5: to give you an opportunity to talk about that specifically.

583
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 1: I think that when I have an issue that I

584
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: want to speak about, people here.

585
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's nothing else to say. That's it.

586
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,959
Speaker 3: That is the answer that you give, like, I'll let

587
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 3: you know when I have something to tell you, and

588
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 3: it won't be in a gene's ad.

589
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. I love this because actually, when Guy and I

590
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,479
Speaker 1: wrote End of Discussion LO these many years ago, ten

591
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 1: years ago now, we noted the Joan Rivers way of

592
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 1: dealing with these kinds of incidents. So Joan Rivers would

593
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 1: make a joke and someone would say that joke is offensive,

594
00:29:58,040 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 1: and then they would find her at the airport TMZ

595
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 1: or whoever and say, like, your joke was offensive. People

596
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: didn't like it, and she would be like, I don't care.

597
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 2: Right, I don't care, yeah.

598
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 1: Right, So do not apologize when you don't have anything

599
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: to apologize for. And that's what got a lot of

600
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 1: people in that crazy twenty twenty to twenty twenty three area. Yeah,

601
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: they were just apologizing for everything. And the truth is,

602
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 1: once you apologize, they have their new storyline, which is

603
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 1: she apologized, but not good enough? Right, never good enough? Yeah,

604
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 1: And Sweeney's just like short circuit. And when she does that,

605
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 1: you can tell the interviewer doesn't exactly know what to

606
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:33,959
Speaker 1: do right.

607
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 3: The interviewer also has trouble making eye contact with her,

608
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 3: where Sweeney is like daggers from her eyes and that's

609
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 3: become the meme where she's just staring at her interviewer,

610
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 3: like not even not afraid, not blinking, like you know

611
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 3: you can't come for me?

612
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 2: Is the look on her face?

613
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 1: Question? Real quick? Do you think all of this is planned?

614
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 4: Right?

615
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 1: Because celebrity interviews are all planned, I assume that there

616
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 1: was some idea that they would talk about this. Yeah,

617
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 1: but maybe the interviewer just like she's a pro as well.

618
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 1: Did she think she was going to get some more

619
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: friendly response than this.

620
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 2: I think she thought she was going to get something.

621
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 3: There's no way she thought she was going to get

622
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,479
Speaker 3: a blank stare and like, but just the fact that

623
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 3: she wasn't making eye contact with Sweeney kind of that

624
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 3: was the tell for a lot of people that she

625
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 3: knew she was doing something wrong. She was trying to

626
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 3: catch the young actress in a political scandal, and Sweeney

627
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 3: just wasn't having it.

628
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 1: I think her power is really and this is true

629
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 1: for anyone in the public eye. She knows who she

630
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 1: is and she is not bumped when someone asks her

631
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: something like this. It's very clear.

632
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 3: And you know, she often posts instagrams about her family

633
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 3: and they seem like a very tight bunch. And she

634
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 3: got in trouble of course because her mom had a

635
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 3: you know, make sixty grade again party a few years ago,

636
00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 3: and she didn't apologize for that one either.

637
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 2: She has a very close family and I think that

638
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 2: having that universe outside of Hollywood has been very, very

639
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 2: good for her.

640
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, good honor.

641
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 2: Yep, we like her. Thanks for joining us on Normally.

642
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 3: Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays, and you can subscribe anywhere.

643
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 2: You get your podcasts.

644
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 3: Get in touch with us at normallythepodat gmail dot com.

645
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening and when things get weird at normally