WEBVTT - Busayo Olupona: How she Pivoted from Attorney to Fashion Designer 0:00:15.476 --> 0:00:15.956 Pushkin. 0:00:20.356 --> 0:00:22.196 I don't move back home with my parents. I don't 0:00:22.196 --> 0:00:24.676 get a cheaper apartment. I don't make any of the 0:00:24.676 --> 0:00:26.756 adjustments you have to make. When you do this like 0:00:27.356 --> 0:00:30.476 your primary source of income and you are now starting 0:00:30.476 --> 0:00:33.156 a fashion brand, I mean I did this in like 0:00:33.316 --> 0:00:34.596 the dumbest way possible. 0:00:36.076 --> 0:00:40.356 Busaio O Lupona spent her formative years in both Nigeria 0:00:40.396 --> 0:00:44.196 and small town Davis, California. She made it to the 0:00:44.276 --> 0:00:47.516 precipice of success with a lucrative career as a lawyer 0:00:47.636 --> 0:00:50.476 at an elite New York City law firm, and then 0:00:50.796 --> 0:00:54.956 left to start a fashion label in her thirties. Her 0:00:55.036 --> 0:00:59.556 label is absolutely titled busaio Not only is it her name, 0:00:59.836 --> 0:01:03.316 but in one of the many Nigerian dialects, Busaiyo means 0:01:03.436 --> 0:01:07.516 to add joy, and adding joy to a dreary law 0:01:07.596 --> 0:01:11.596 career was what first sparked Oloopona's entrepreneurial spirit to begin 0:01:11.676 --> 0:01:15.516 with creating homemade designs she could wear in a professional 0:01:15.596 --> 0:01:19.916 setting while utilizing the vibrant prints of her Nigerian youth. 0:01:20.756 --> 0:01:24.236 And this is her Clothing Labels mission to bridge the 0:01:24.276 --> 0:01:27.676 cultural gap between what business professionals can wear in states 0:01:28.116 --> 0:01:32.276 and the more bold designs of West Africa. Ol Loopona's 0:01:32.276 --> 0:01:36.516 story is about finding your joy and pursuing it at 0:01:36.556 --> 0:01:40.396 all costs. This is started from the bottom, hard earned 0:01:40.396 --> 0:01:47.236 success stories from people like us. Can you take me 0:01:47.396 --> 0:01:52.716 back to your very first day of school in Davis, California. 0:01:52.956 --> 0:01:57.836 It's your first day of middle school in the United States. Yeah, 0:01:58.756 --> 0:01:59.556 tell me everything. 0:02:00.156 --> 0:02:03.716 I remember. First of all, coming to America was like 0:02:04.956 --> 0:02:07.236 I was in a boarding school in Nigeria. I was miserable. 0:02:07.396 --> 0:02:10.356 So it was literally they being rescued like I. And 0:02:10.476 --> 0:02:13.076 you know, I had had this fantasy right of what 0:02:13.156 --> 0:02:17.076 America was like, and in some ways it had really 0:02:17.196 --> 0:02:19.236 up until then would really met up to it. I 0:02:19.236 --> 0:02:21.996 remember going to the my American grocery store for the 0:02:22.036 --> 0:02:25.156 first time and seeing all these different types of fruits 0:02:25.156 --> 0:02:26.916 and all these you know, fruits that are only read 0:02:26.916 --> 0:02:29.156 about in books and then see like strawberries, like seeing 0:02:29.156 --> 0:02:31.836 them in person. You know, there was just so many 0:02:31.876 --> 0:02:34.956 things that were like a delight, right, And so I 0:02:35.036 --> 0:02:40.116 remember it was Oliver Wendell Holmes's junior high school. I 0:02:40.236 --> 0:02:43.436 was starting the eighth grade and I was supposed to 0:02:43.476 --> 0:02:46.596 be starting ninth. Actually I had gone through school really fast, 0:02:46.996 --> 0:02:48.716 so I was quite young. I was only twelve years 0:02:48.756 --> 0:02:52.356 old and very young, yeah, super young, and in a 0:02:52.396 --> 0:02:57.076 new country, right. I remember I had my hair wrapped 0:02:57.196 --> 0:03:00.116 with so we have something in our culture called inrokiko, 0:03:00.156 --> 0:03:02.556 which is hair threaded, like your hair streaded. So my 0:03:02.596 --> 0:03:04.756 mom had done it for me, which is literally wrap 0:03:04.836 --> 0:03:07.036 your head in like thread and it s took a 0:03:07.156 --> 0:03:10.876 very popular style in Niger and throughout West Africa really, 0:03:10.996 --> 0:03:14.116 and I remember I was writing traditionally dyed hand eyed 0:03:14.156 --> 0:03:21.756 clothes and I just remember being so excited. And I 0:03:21.836 --> 0:03:24.796 don't think that the fissure and the cracks came that 0:03:24.836 --> 0:03:28.196 first day, but it's probably that first week right where 0:03:28.236 --> 0:03:30.876 like the response to me was just not what I 0:03:31.036 --> 0:03:32.916 dreamt of, you know. I thought I was gonna have 0:03:33.676 --> 0:03:36.316 friends and I was gonna just I was so excited 0:03:36.396 --> 0:03:40.596 to be in America, and it literally was like hellish. 0:03:40.836 --> 0:03:42.596 And I remember, I don't remember if it was that 0:03:42.676 --> 0:03:44.996 day or a few days later. I told my mom, like, 0:03:45.036 --> 0:03:46.636 take my hair out of this thing. I don't want 0:03:46.636 --> 0:03:49.356 to wear my hair like this anymore. The clothes, I 0:03:49.996 --> 0:03:52.196 was like, I needed new clothes, and so, of course 0:03:52.236 --> 0:03:54.036 all they could afford at the time was like closed 0:03:54.076 --> 0:03:57.116 from Salvation in the army. She did everything to make 0:03:57.116 --> 0:04:00.796 sure we were like, you know, dressed well and everything, 0:04:00.916 --> 0:04:04.956 like God, I'm gonna start crying justin you know, just 0:04:04.996 --> 0:04:06.756 because you know, we got here. And I was like, 0:04:06.956 --> 0:04:10.316 these clothes that we brought, I'm not gonna wear them. 0:04:10.516 --> 0:04:12.036 And of course they didn't have a ton of money. 0:04:12.756 --> 0:04:14.756 My dad was an assistant professor, and which people will 0:04:14.796 --> 0:04:17.076 assume that, oh, that means that you're making a really 0:04:17.076 --> 0:04:20.196 good living, but with four children, actually not, you know, 0:04:20.356 --> 0:04:22.596 he I think it was like thirty forty thousand dollars 0:04:22.596 --> 0:04:24.716 a year or something like that, and trying to feed 0:04:24.796 --> 0:04:27.236 like a family of sex and they're starting in a 0:04:27.236 --> 0:04:29.436 new country. They didn't have very much, and so she 0:04:29.436 --> 0:04:31.676 would buy these clothes for us from Salvation Army and 0:04:31.676 --> 0:04:33.516 I would just be like, no, I don't I don't 0:04:33.516 --> 0:04:35.396 want to wear these. You know, these are not like 0:04:35.436 --> 0:04:38.436 what the kids in school were wearing. So I did 0:04:38.476 --> 0:04:42.156 everything to try to mold in shape and become something 0:04:42.196 --> 0:04:46.236 that was acceptable to my peers, right, But it never 0:04:46.316 --> 0:04:49.956 really worked, you know, and was really socially isolated for 0:04:49.956 --> 0:04:50.876 a very long time. 0:04:51.196 --> 0:04:52.956 What was one that taunts you. 0:04:52.676 --> 0:04:57.116 Oh God, how you want me solving the film The 0:04:57.116 --> 0:05:00.156 Gods Must Be Crazy had just come out. So I 0:05:00.196 --> 0:05:03.236 would sit there and like kids would click in my ear, like, 0:05:03.516 --> 0:05:06.036 you know, because they speak souls loud, which I can pronounce. 0:05:06.236 --> 0:05:08.916 Most of us can't say that sound. The sound is 0:05:09.236 --> 0:05:15.796 aspiration in your in your throat essentially, Yeah, that's what 0:05:15.876 --> 0:05:18.436 people call it. But so people would literally click in 0:05:18.436 --> 0:05:20.356 my ear and like say, like, do you do you 0:05:20.396 --> 0:05:23.316 talk like this? Do you guys wear clothes? Do you 0:05:23.396 --> 0:05:27.716 live in trees? Spitballs? You know? I would have spitballs. 0:05:27.836 --> 0:05:30.396 I hope kids don't do it anymore, like literally make 0:05:30.956 --> 0:05:33.716 cover paper with spit, like blow it through like a 0:05:33.756 --> 0:05:37.356 pen at you. Oh god, my hair. At one point, 0:05:37.396 --> 0:05:39.996 it was like, you know, Medusa was the was the name. 0:05:40.676 --> 0:05:43.836 There was so much, you know, and at this point 0:05:43.916 --> 0:05:46.276 I start eating to kind of deal with it, right, 0:05:46.356 --> 0:05:50.836 So then I'm overweight and so there's that you know, 0:05:51.316 --> 0:05:55.756 challenge and that kind of torment. So there was a lot. 0:05:55.836 --> 0:05:57.956 I mean, I think at that time too, the narrative 0:05:57.996 --> 0:06:04.916 on the African continent was very poverty. People's perception of 0:06:04.956 --> 0:06:08.396 Africa was really it's not like now where I actually 0:06:08.436 --> 0:06:11.676 think that we've managed to complicate the narrative and like 0:06:12.396 --> 0:06:14.876 we as you know, both the Africans on the continent 0:06:14.916 --> 0:06:17.996 and living here are really telling a different story about 0:06:18.116 --> 0:06:20.156 the place that we come from. But at that time 0:06:20.196 --> 0:06:22.036 there was none of that. So it was literally like 0:06:22.676 --> 0:06:27.756 starving children from Athiopia, you know, that was basically it. 0:06:27.996 --> 0:06:31.436 Oh and then of course the animal narrative that this 0:06:31.596 --> 0:06:33.556 was a continent, it was just full of animals, and 0:06:33.596 --> 0:06:35.876 so there was just a lot of like do you 0:06:35.916 --> 0:06:37.756 have a pet monkey? Do you have that? It's just 0:06:37.756 --> 0:06:41.276 just stuff like now sounds ridiculous, but at that time 0:06:41.396 --> 0:06:44.516 was completely the norm was completely. 0:06:44.116 --> 0:06:46.316 No norm and the sort of thing that you know, 0:06:46.396 --> 0:06:48.036 what was to happen. As an adult, you could dismiss 0:06:48.076 --> 0:06:50.036 them in such a way to say, obviously, these people 0:06:50.036 --> 0:06:53.316 are like uninvolved a type of people. But as a kid, you. 0:06:53.356 --> 0:06:55.676 Take it all in. Oh my gosh, you take it 0:06:55.716 --> 0:06:59.716 all in. And I mean, there were so many good 0:06:59.756 --> 0:07:03.156 things about that. Being so awful as it was, I 0:07:03.196 --> 0:07:06.156 think I was so desperate to get the hell out 0:07:06.196 --> 0:07:08.396 of Davis right like. That was very clear to me, 0:07:08.436 --> 0:07:10.636 and it gave me a determination to get the hell 0:07:10.676 --> 0:07:13.716 out of there, which was a total blessing. 0:07:14.156 --> 0:07:16.796 Could your parents sympathize. 0:07:16.836 --> 0:07:19.036 I think, yes, and no. I think they were going 0:07:19.036 --> 0:07:23.556 through their own kind of immigration. Like immigration is actually 0:07:23.556 --> 0:07:26.756 more traumatic than I think most of us really, I 0:07:26.756 --> 0:07:29.236 don't even I didn't even start thinking about it till 0:07:29.356 --> 0:07:31.716 very recently, in like the language of trauma, right, And 0:07:31.836 --> 0:07:34.076 of course trauma is like a word that we now 0:07:34.076 --> 0:07:36.996 throw around quite a bit and freely, so I'm actually 0:07:37.076 --> 0:07:39.596 quite careful in how I use it. But I do 0:07:39.636 --> 0:07:42.356 think that there's actually a huge amount of loss that 0:07:42.396 --> 0:07:45.596 comes from I know, there's a huge amount of loss 0:07:45.596 --> 0:07:49.156 that comes from leaving your home and starting out in 0:07:49.236 --> 0:07:52.276 a new place. And they were kind of doing it 0:07:52.276 --> 0:07:54.636 for the second time. I was actually born here, but 0:07:55.036 --> 0:07:57.516 once my father finished grad school, like, we moved back 0:07:57.556 --> 0:08:01.156 to Nigeria. So they were coming back and they'd been 0:08:01.196 --> 0:08:04.836 here before, but they were going through their own challenges, 0:08:04.876 --> 0:08:08.036 and I think they were raising teenagers, and they had 0:08:08.076 --> 0:08:11.796 a lot of fear about out us losing our culture 0:08:12.156 --> 0:08:17.516 or kind of getting sucked into kind of I think 0:08:17.556 --> 0:08:19.396 there were things about America that scared them. 0:08:19.556 --> 0:08:21.356 I mean, like I would imagine and I don't come 0:08:21.396 --> 0:08:25.596 from a family of immigrants or you know, not any 0:08:25.636 --> 0:08:29.956 immigration that happened a long time back. But I imagine 0:08:30.196 --> 0:08:35.036 the dream for an immigrant parent would be take advantage 0:08:35.076 --> 0:08:38.716 of the financial opportunity and take refuge in your own 0:08:39.276 --> 0:08:39.956 home culture. 0:08:40.076 --> 0:08:42.916 You got it. That was That was exactly it, and 0:08:42.956 --> 0:08:44.996 that was the rule from day one for us. Was 0:08:45.036 --> 0:08:48.636 like in this house, this is Nigeria. Out there, do 0:08:48.716 --> 0:08:51.196 whatever you want, but in here, this is Nigeria. 0:08:51.676 --> 0:08:54.316 Your dad's a professor. So you might think perhaps maybe 0:08:54.356 --> 0:08:56.316 a little more, maybe it was a little more open 0:08:56.356 --> 0:09:00.356 minded than I'm expecting. But what was expected of you? 0:09:01.156 --> 0:09:04.196 What do you think they were hoping for your future? 0:09:05.196 --> 0:09:07.636 I think what you said was really right, like you 0:09:07.836 --> 0:09:11.916 actually described it so succinctly and perfectly, which is take 0:09:11.956 --> 0:09:15.556 advantage of the economic opportunity that's available in America. But 0:09:15.876 --> 0:09:19.316 in terms of your life path and your own personal values, 0:09:19.796 --> 0:09:22.796 you continue to be as Nigerian as possible, which is 0:09:22.836 --> 0:09:26.796 an impossible project, right, Like it is impossible, Like you know, 0:09:26.916 --> 0:09:30.956 and the life of a Nigerian woman's actually quite prescribed 0:09:30.716 --> 0:09:34.116 and defined, which is once you hit a certain age, 0:09:34.236 --> 0:09:37.756 you get married and you have kids and that's that's that, 0:09:38.276 --> 0:09:41.396 and you continue you replicate and in our culture, children 0:09:41.436 --> 0:09:45.076 are like children are your inheritance. Children are everything, and 0:09:45.156 --> 0:09:47.196 so for them it was like once you hit a 0:09:47.196 --> 0:09:51.196 certain age, you get married, like twenty five twenty six basically, 0:09:51.636 --> 0:09:53.876 and you have children. And I don't have children and 0:09:53.916 --> 0:09:56.876 I'm not married, and so those things for them, I 0:09:56.916 --> 0:10:01.076 think is challenging, right because I also made very different 0:10:01.156 --> 0:10:03.956 choices with my professional wife, But for a very long time, 0:10:03.996 --> 0:10:06.396 I kind of stayed on the path and the traditional 0:10:06.436 --> 0:10:09.596 path that you know, looked really good from the outside, 0:10:09.756 --> 0:10:12.396 that kind of really fit into what they wanted. But 0:10:12.476 --> 0:10:14.836 I think that this kind of personal piece is also 0:10:15.116 --> 0:10:18.316 really is really huge in our culture. It's a very 0:10:18.836 --> 0:10:22.356 the life of a woman is very very clear. Oh 0:10:22.436 --> 0:10:25.196 and I'm Nigerian, but specifically I'm Eurorobat, which is the 0:10:25.236 --> 0:10:26.436 tribe that I come from. 0:10:26.556 --> 0:10:28.796 What does a career look like? Then, if you're expected 0:10:28.836 --> 0:10:31.836 to be married with kids at twenty five, oh. 0:10:31.756 --> 0:10:33.796 You're expected to do all of that. Like my father, 0:10:33.996 --> 0:10:36.076 we had three girls and a boy. There was never 0:10:36.076 --> 0:10:39.716 any distinction between where we were expected to accomplish at all. 0:10:39.756 --> 0:10:42.276 Like it was like from day one you were expected 0:10:42.316 --> 0:10:44.236 to produce, you were expected to be a rock star, 0:10:44.636 --> 0:10:47.756 and that was the end of that. But simultaneously on 0:10:47.836 --> 0:10:52.356 top of that, for women, you're also expected to bring 0:10:52.396 --> 0:10:55.156 that same level of excellence to the home and be 0:10:55.356 --> 0:10:58.316 a homemaker and all of those things. So when we 0:10:58.316 --> 0:11:02.516 were growing up, professional achievement was a given. I think 0:11:02.636 --> 0:11:04.756 what was different about it or kind of what was 0:11:04.836 --> 0:11:11.636 on top of that was doctor, lawyer, architect, engineer, and 0:11:11.676 --> 0:11:13.916 that was basically it. Right, there's a reason you have 0:11:13.996 --> 0:11:16.676 so many Nigerian doctors. It's not because like they all 0:11:16.716 --> 0:11:19.516 wanted to be doctors, you know in America, Like there's 0:11:19.516 --> 0:11:23.556 so many. I mean, it's that's not it. Or an accountant, 0:11:23.596 --> 0:11:24.876 sorry I forgot accounting. 0:11:25.116 --> 0:11:28.036 Did any of those seem remotely appealing to you as 0:11:28.036 --> 0:11:28.356 a kid. 0:11:29.476 --> 0:11:32.476 I love the arts, I love theater. All the kids. 0:11:32.516 --> 0:11:33.996 The only kids that were nice to me were the 0:11:33.996 --> 0:11:36.596 theater kids, like the weirdo theater kids. And I say 0:11:36.636 --> 0:11:39.996 that with such love and affection. I proudly am one 0:11:40.036 --> 0:11:43.156 of them. And those were my friends. And that's what 0:11:43.196 --> 0:11:44.836 I wanted to just wanted to be an actor when 0:11:44.876 --> 0:11:48.356 I was younger, and my parents were like, well acting kidney, 0:11:48.596 --> 0:11:51.196 like what we did not come to America for you 0:11:51.236 --> 0:11:53.756 to be an actor, you know, And they had this 0:11:53.796 --> 0:11:56.396 thing that they always said like you must have a certificate, 0:11:56.916 --> 0:11:59.276 you know, like there's an idea that like a piece 0:11:59.276 --> 0:12:01.196 of paper that no one can take away from you. 0:12:01.396 --> 0:12:02.796 So that's like a diploma certificate. 0:12:02.956 --> 0:12:05.396 Yeah, like not just a diploma, like you know, being 0:12:05.716 --> 0:12:09.076 a doctor, you have an actual professional certification. If you're 0:12:09.156 --> 0:12:10.876 a lawyer, you have a particular you know, if you're 0:12:10.876 --> 0:12:13.836 an engineer. You know, these kind of professions where somebody 0:12:13.876 --> 0:12:15.996 says you are skilled to do this. 0:12:16.076 --> 0:12:17.836 I have never heard of put that way. That is 0:12:17.876 --> 0:12:19.116 a great way of putting it. 0:12:19.116 --> 0:12:19.796 It's not a diploma. 0:12:20.796 --> 0:12:23.796 Children, you must have a certificate. 0:12:23.516 --> 0:12:26.396 Right, So no one can take your certificate from you. Right, 0:12:26.436 --> 0:12:30.276 So that really leaves like four or five professions with certificates. 0:12:30.516 --> 0:12:32.956 And so you know, my older sister is a doctor, 0:12:33.116 --> 0:12:34.916 I'm a lawyer. My little sister's a lawyer. 0:12:35.116 --> 0:12:35.916 How did you pick? 0:12:36.556 --> 0:12:40.116 I picked law because this was the time where people 0:12:40.156 --> 0:12:42.316 would say, if you don't know what to do, you 0:12:42.356 --> 0:12:44.276 can go to law school and you can do anything 0:12:44.316 --> 0:12:46.956 with it, which is not true. Like, if I could 0:12:46.996 --> 0:12:51.596 leave one lesson on this entire conversation, do not go 0:12:51.636 --> 0:12:53.436 to law school because you don't know what else to do, 0:12:53.476 --> 0:12:56.076 and you think you can do anything with a law degree, because. 0:12:55.836 --> 0:12:56.756 That is not true. 0:12:56.956 --> 0:12:58.996 If you have a law degree, you can be a lawyer. 0:12:59.116 --> 0:13:02.316 That's it. That was what I mean. I feel like 0:13:02.356 --> 0:13:06.196 it's changed a little bit, but late nineties, like early 0:13:06.236 --> 0:13:08.476 two thousands, it was like, oh, you know, if you're 0:13:08.476 --> 0:13:11.156 stilling worrying, you can you know, there's so much versatility 0:13:11.196 --> 0:13:13.276 with a law degree. You can do all sorts of 0:13:13.316 --> 0:13:15.036 things with it. No, it's not true. You can be 0:13:15.076 --> 0:13:15.956 a lawyer, that's it. 0:13:16.316 --> 0:13:17.956 I wonder if that was the sneaky way just to 0:13:17.996 --> 0:13:20.716 get your kids into well, if the law school. 0:13:21.076 --> 0:13:23.796 I mean, you know, in law schools they have their 0:13:23.796 --> 0:13:26.836 own racket. That's a whole nother conversation. But yeah, I 0:13:26.916 --> 0:13:30.076 really believed it. I didn't know. Again, you have to 0:13:30.076 --> 0:13:33.316 realize I was twenty when I graduated from cayl Wow. 0:13:33.316 --> 0:13:35.636 So twenty yeah, because I started I was twelve years 0:13:35.636 --> 0:13:37.596 old in eighth grade. So I was twenty years old 0:13:38.076 --> 0:13:41.236 and you are sixteen. Yeah, I was a sixteen when 0:13:41.196 --> 0:13:43.436 I first Yeah, it was a terrible idea. Wow, should 0:13:43.436 --> 0:13:44.836 we say that we went to the same speek. 0:13:44.756 --> 0:13:47.116 We went we both were both Cowers. 0:13:46.636 --> 0:13:48.836 Both when we both go Barris, We both went same 0:13:48.876 --> 0:13:49.876 undergrad so that's why. 0:13:49.956 --> 0:13:54.036 But you you wind up after Berkeley, you end up 0:13:54.396 --> 0:13:55.636 at NYU Law School. 0:13:55.956 --> 0:13:57.996 Well, so there's a tension that's happening while I'm at 0:13:58.036 --> 0:14:01.196 cayl right, because I want a major in theater. I'm 0:14:01.236 --> 0:14:04.396 not that good and my parents are like no, so 0:14:04.436 --> 0:14:06.916 I minor in theater and then I. 0:14:06.956 --> 0:14:08.036 And major in business. 0:14:08.116 --> 0:14:11.036 Yeah, and I get into right, so the business program 0:14:11.116 --> 0:14:14.876 is like difficult to get into. I get into it 0:14:14.916 --> 0:14:17.596 and it's you don't turn it down, right, So. 0:14:17.436 --> 0:14:19.356 It's like best business schools in the country. 0:14:19.476 --> 0:14:22.196 And I'm like, So I'm like at HOSS and I'm 0:14:22.236 --> 0:14:25.236 like minory in theater and literally I might as well 0:14:25.236 --> 0:14:27.476 have been to people like walking up the hill to 0:14:27.556 --> 0:14:31.796 hass is like I'm being tortured. And then theater I'm like, 0:14:32.116 --> 0:14:36.116 loving my life. But but that bifurcation of the thing 0:14:36.156 --> 0:14:38.476 that your spirit and soul, the thing that makes you 0:14:38.516 --> 0:14:42.756 feel awake, versus the thing that is expected. And at 0:14:42.796 --> 0:14:44.916 this point I'm not it's not just my parents, it's 0:14:44.916 --> 0:14:47.996 also my own. I think I've also bought into the 0:14:48.116 --> 0:14:50.996 idea that you need a profession or a job that 0:14:51.076 --> 0:14:55.196 gives you stability and gives you an identity and I 0:14:55.276 --> 0:14:59.636 like the paycheck, right, Like you know, I like the paycheck. 0:14:59.756 --> 0:15:03.236 I'm I'm really independent. I wanted to be able to 0:15:03.236 --> 0:15:06.996 have my own kind of everything at a very young age. 0:15:07.076 --> 0:15:10.996 So I came to visit my sister, older sister who 0:15:11.116 --> 0:15:14.836 was at TULU, who's at NYU Medical School at the time, 0:15:15.756 --> 0:15:18.596 fell in love with the city, fell so hard for 0:15:18.716 --> 0:15:21.396 New York and was like, I'm moving here. I don't 0:15:21.436 --> 0:15:23.436 care how it's going to happen. And I went back 0:15:23.436 --> 0:15:24.476 to the ban and I was like, I got to 0:15:24.476 --> 0:15:26.876 get out of here. And this was when the if 0:15:26.916 --> 0:15:28.996 you don't know what to do and you're exploring and 0:15:29.196 --> 0:15:32.356 your law degree and is versatile, it was like, what's 0:15:32.396 --> 0:15:36.036 the answer, and why you law? That's the answer, and 0:15:36.076 --> 0:15:36.836 that's what I did. 0:15:38.436 --> 0:15:39.676 What was that experience? 0:15:39.796 --> 0:15:39.916 Like? 0:15:40.476 --> 0:15:43.196 I love law school? I absolutely loved it. 0:15:43.276 --> 0:15:44.076 What did you love about it? 0:15:45.156 --> 0:15:48.476 The education itself is a different type of thinking. It's 0:15:48.516 --> 0:15:51.436 a different It's literally like learning a new language and 0:15:51.516 --> 0:15:54.876 a new way of communicating. You are being forced to, 0:15:56.756 --> 0:15:59.356 first of all, I think, just being analytical and ask 0:15:59.516 --> 0:16:03.436 really specific and new questions, to look at a situation 0:16:04.236 --> 0:16:07.276 a certain way, and then kind of consider all the 0:16:07.276 --> 0:16:09.316 different ways that you can look at a situation like 0:16:09.396 --> 0:16:13.116 such a situation. Also, the law school model is you know, 0:16:13.156 --> 0:16:15.716 you're with the same one hundred people in your class 0:16:15.756 --> 0:16:17.796 all day, kind of like going back to elementary school, 0:16:17.796 --> 0:16:20.596 where like you're not changing classes, you're literally with the 0:16:20.596 --> 0:16:24.356 same people for a whole year. So I just got 0:16:24.356 --> 0:16:27.476 to meet some of the best, most interesting people in 0:16:27.516 --> 0:16:29.476 my life and they're still in my life. I mean, 0:16:29.476 --> 0:16:31.756 that's the thing. The joke about LUSCH was it attracts 0:16:31.756 --> 0:16:33.356 all these people who don't know what else they want 0:16:33.396 --> 0:16:35.876 to do, so you end up meeting some really dope people. 0:16:36.196 --> 0:16:42.116 And like NYU was really fun, and like I think about, it, 0:16:42.196 --> 0:16:45.076 laid the groundwork for so much of what I'm doing 0:16:45.116 --> 0:16:48.796 now in so many ways, strange ways. So the study 0:16:48.796 --> 0:16:51.916 of law is actually fantastic. It's the practice of law 0:16:51.996 --> 0:16:53.196 that is not so fun. 0:16:53.276 --> 0:16:54.796 What were your first couple of jobs after? 0:16:55.596 --> 0:16:57.796 My first job was really long. It was a six 0:16:57.916 --> 0:17:01.556 year job. I was an associate at Clary Gottlieb. I'm 0:17:01.596 --> 0:17:03.116 not sure I should say their name, but is it 0:17:03.116 --> 0:17:08.596 a fancy white shoe law firm downtown? Very How should 0:17:08.596 --> 0:17:11.436 I say this? So when you graduate from certain law 0:17:11.436 --> 0:17:14.076 schools in this country. There's something that's kind of in 0:17:14.076 --> 0:17:16.276 some ways it's wonderful that they've really set up, which 0:17:16.316 --> 0:17:18.916 is like you graduate from law school and you go 0:17:19.076 --> 0:17:21.716 work for these corporate law firms and usually you owe 0:17:21.756 --> 0:17:24.636 a lot of money and they pay an insane amount 0:17:24.636 --> 0:17:26.676 of money and everybody kind of gets paid the same. 0:17:26.716 --> 0:17:28.396 Like you can google the salaries now, which I don't 0:17:28.396 --> 0:17:30.036 even know what they are, but at that time it 0:17:30.076 --> 0:17:32.236 was like one hundred and twenty five thousand dollars a year. 0:17:32.796 --> 0:17:33.316 Wow. 0:17:33.356 --> 0:17:36.956 And you have a secretary, you have an annex card, 0:17:36.996 --> 0:17:39.156 you have cards that take you home every night. In 0:17:39.236 --> 0:17:41.476 these jobs, they come to the school to interview you. 0:17:41.996 --> 0:17:44.436 The firms come to the schools, especially like New York 0:17:44.476 --> 0:17:47.316 schools from the Boston schools. Yeah, and they take you 0:17:47.436 --> 0:17:51.356 out to all the fancy restaurants, the no Boos, the Boulets, 0:17:51.596 --> 0:17:55.356 the Danielle's, like free, they pay for everything. It's like 0:17:55.436 --> 0:17:59.276 a recruiting period. Right. You think you're eating free stuff. 0:17:59.276 --> 0:18:01.156 It's not free, because nothing in life is free. 0:18:01.196 --> 0:18:01.316 Right. 0:18:01.316 --> 0:18:03.236 They're going to get it out of you later. And 0:18:03.316 --> 0:18:06.596 you also remember you owe. In my case, I owed money. 0:18:06.676 --> 0:18:08.516 I owed a lot of money, and so I owed 0:18:08.516 --> 0:18:10.716 from my undergrad and I owed from law school. So 0:18:11.316 --> 0:18:15.196 you now have these like shiny toys being given to you. 0:18:15.756 --> 0:18:18.436 It's a very hard thing to say no to, especially 0:18:18.476 --> 0:18:23.036 when you are that young. And again, I think New 0:18:23.116 --> 0:18:26.356 York City can be I love the city, but I 0:18:26.436 --> 0:18:29.636 think sometimes there's there's it can be very intoxicating. And 0:18:30.196 --> 0:18:34.596 I totally got intoxicated by like the yeah, the fanciness 0:18:34.636 --> 0:18:38.036 of everything, you know, Like why is that well, I 0:18:38.036 --> 0:18:40.796 mean think about it. You're twenty something, like I've never 0:18:40.796 --> 0:18:44.596 seen this kind of money before my life. And these trappings, 0:18:44.676 --> 0:18:46.876 you know, they're called golden handcuffs for a reason. Like 0:18:46.916 --> 0:18:50.316 these trappings feel, they appear nice. Right, I'm gonna have 0:18:50.516 --> 0:18:53.036 like my own office. I'm gonna have my own secretary. 0:18:53.036 --> 0:18:55.676 I'm gonna have an AMEX card, you know, and you 0:18:55.716 --> 0:18:59.636 know BlackBerry, all these things right that at that age, 0:18:59.916 --> 0:19:03.756 I think I confused for like adulthood or something. So 0:19:03.836 --> 0:19:07.756 I took the job at Cleary and it was phenomenal 0:19:07.916 --> 0:19:12.156 legal training. But again, when you are not in alignment, 0:19:12.756 --> 0:19:15.196 I don't care how much you dress up that pig 0:19:15.276 --> 0:19:18.676 with all the lipsticks, It's not gonna work. And the 0:19:18.756 --> 0:19:22.756 thing about law firms is you are there at eight years, 0:19:22.756 --> 0:19:25.436 you're gonna make partner or you're out. I mean, I 0:19:25.636 --> 0:19:27.716 was not any close to making partner. 0:19:28.276 --> 0:19:31.596 So do you think that's because the passion wasn't there. 0:19:31.916 --> 0:19:34.716 I think it's really impossible to be great at anything 0:19:35.316 --> 0:19:39.076 if you don't have some kind of innate, innate thing 0:19:39.196 --> 0:19:43.396 for it. I think it's actually impossible. It's literally rowing 0:19:43.436 --> 0:19:47.036 against the current innate desire for it, or any desire 0:19:47.076 --> 0:19:49.756 innate talent. I'm doing corporal or where you have to 0:19:49.796 --> 0:19:53.716 like mark up a three hundred page document. No, I 0:19:53.756 --> 0:19:56.316 don't have the talent for that. It's so boring. And 0:19:56.516 --> 0:19:58.076 that's just the fact. And I think this is part 0:19:58.076 --> 0:20:00.476 of what I'm saying, like you have to know yourself. 0:20:01.956 --> 0:20:04.476 We'll be back with more of my conversation with Busso 0:20:04.596 --> 0:20:19.796 or Lupona after the break. We're back with more of 0:20:19.836 --> 0:20:23.476 Busseo or Lupona. At this point in her story, she's 0:20:23.596 --> 0:20:26.796 burnt out in her lock career, but she loves fashion, 0:20:27.076 --> 0:20:29.076 so she thinks she could make it in the industry 0:20:29.156 --> 0:20:33.556 as a designer. She has money and an idea. How 0:20:33.596 --> 0:20:37.556 hard could it be? So we haven't talked yet about fashion. 0:20:39.916 --> 0:20:42.836 Did you care about fashion as a teenager, When did 0:20:42.836 --> 0:20:45.116 fashion into your life and in what way I cared. 0:20:44.916 --> 0:20:47.596 About fashion as a kid, because I always remember my 0:20:47.636 --> 0:20:50.676 first like deep fashion memory was my father coming back 0:20:50.716 --> 0:20:55.156 from South Korea and buying me a red dress that 0:20:55.276 --> 0:21:00.036 I become obsessed with, like I literally cannot stop wearing 0:21:00.076 --> 0:21:03.196 a stress and like that's my first like deep fashion memory. 0:21:04.156 --> 0:21:07.396 And also you're about culture. We're obsessed with clothes. We 0:21:07.476 --> 0:21:09.636 have a tradition in our culture called should I be, 0:21:09.836 --> 0:21:12.236 which means that when you're doing any kind of event, 0:21:12.916 --> 0:21:16.436 we pick up fabric right and everybody wears that fabric, 0:21:16.716 --> 0:21:19.596 and so you design your own version of that fabric 0:21:19.956 --> 0:21:23.196 because it identifies the relationship between you and the people 0:21:23.236 --> 0:21:27.916 doing the event. So there's always opportunities to kind of 0:21:27.956 --> 0:21:30.716 design because anytime you have an event coming, you have 0:21:30.756 --> 0:21:33.596 to like make up a new outfit. And the law 0:21:33.676 --> 0:21:37.996 firm really factors into fashion for me because I had 0:21:38.036 --> 0:21:39.956 the kind of strong call to start going back to 0:21:40.036 --> 0:21:43.036 Nigeria and like visiting my family and like reconnecting with 0:21:43.076 --> 0:21:46.276 my culture, like the early two thousands. I think the 0:21:46.276 --> 0:21:48.036 first time I go back is two thousand and two, 0:21:48.436 --> 0:21:50.516 and then starting two thousand and five, I start going 0:21:50.556 --> 0:21:53.236 every year. It becomes almost like a pilgrimage. I don't 0:21:53.356 --> 0:21:55.436 understand why, but every year I buy a ticket and 0:21:55.476 --> 0:21:59.676 I go. And starting in eight I started making clothes 0:21:59.676 --> 0:22:01.996 for myself, like things I wanted to wear back. So 0:22:02.036 --> 0:22:03.956 I'm at the law firm now I started clearing at 0:22:03.956 --> 0:22:06.556 two thousand and five. I'm at the firm, but I 0:22:06.636 --> 0:22:08.796 know that I want to start wearing clothes that are 0:22:08.836 --> 0:22:11.396 kind of at the intersection of both cultures. 0:22:11.396 --> 0:22:16.676 At the intersection of what's appropriate professionally exactly and. 0:22:18.236 --> 0:22:22.356 Culture and tradition exactly. And that's like actually a very 0:22:22.396 --> 0:22:23.316 specific thing. 0:22:23.516 --> 0:22:25.476 I don't even know that would exist, it. 0:22:25.836 --> 0:22:27.836 Did it, and so that's why I was going to 0:22:27.876 --> 0:22:30.156 make it, and so but I also knew in the 0:22:30.196 --> 0:22:32.996 beginning it was just that was literally the initial impetus 0:22:33.156 --> 0:22:35.076 was like I wanted to wear clothes that I could 0:22:35.356 --> 0:22:37.596 wear to a very traditional law firm. I mean, people 0:22:37.596 --> 0:22:41.996 would still stare, but like it wasn't so crazy, but 0:22:42.036 --> 0:22:44.396 like would fit in the law firm, but also kind 0:22:44.396 --> 0:22:47.116 of captured my culture and tradition. But at this point 0:22:47.116 --> 0:22:50.276 I'm wearing it around the office and there's some stuff 0:22:50.316 --> 0:22:52.516 that people are like, oh great, and then all this timeployee. 0:22:52.516 --> 0:22:54.156 You see like a double take, like what the fuck 0:22:54.276 --> 0:22:54.636 is she wearing? 0:22:54.676 --> 0:22:56.276 Were you ever like reprimanded? 0:22:56.356 --> 0:22:59.436 Any official clarity was no, it's not it's not that 0:22:59.556 --> 0:23:02.196 kind of place. It's very international law firm. And the 0:23:02.236 --> 0:23:04.076 clothes really marked me as being different. I mean that 0:23:04.156 --> 0:23:06.316 was very clear. And then I think that desire of 0:23:06.396 --> 0:23:09.076 like I need to show up a certain way was 0:23:09.276 --> 0:23:12.156 becoming like I could not ignore that anymore, Like it 0:23:12.196 --> 0:23:14.356 was becoming like overwhelming in many ways. 0:23:14.556 --> 0:23:16.116 And in a way it might have been a physical 0:23:16.916 --> 0:23:22.476 manifestation of your litteral inner feeling of I shouldn't be here. Yeah, no, 0:23:22.716 --> 0:23:23.596 I don't belong here. 0:23:23.596 --> 0:23:25.436 Absolutely, there were other ways. I mean there were so 0:23:25.556 --> 0:23:28.756 many things that that marked me. So at this point 0:23:29.156 --> 0:23:31.116 we kind of sit down me in the firm and 0:23:31.156 --> 0:23:33.796 are like we need to go out separate ways. So 0:23:33.876 --> 0:23:37.036 it was like, oh, let's let's divorce in September like 0:23:37.076 --> 0:23:39.596 that kind of thing. So at this point I'm like, 0:23:39.636 --> 0:23:42.116 you know what, I'm just gonna go work on Pussia. 0:23:42.756 --> 0:23:44.276 How do you get the courage to do that? I 0:23:44.276 --> 0:23:45.716 mean you have loans? 0:23:46.076 --> 0:23:49.956 Yeah, So the thing about remember I've made a crap 0:23:50.036 --> 0:23:53.196 ton of money for six years, so I had like 0:23:53.236 --> 0:23:56.636 a pretty nice nest egg, which was stupid in my 0:23:56.916 --> 0:23:59.196 In my mind, I thought, oh, this is great. I 0:23:59.436 --> 0:24:03.276 have enough money, I know, because I don't give up anything. 0:24:03.636 --> 0:24:05.516 I don't move back home with my parents, I don't 0:24:05.516 --> 0:24:07.956 get a cheaper apartment. I don't make any of the 0:24:07.996 --> 0:24:10.836 adjustments you have to make when you lose like your 0:24:10.876 --> 0:24:13.876 primary source of income and you are now starting a 0:24:13.916 --> 0:24:16.676 fashion brand. I mean I did this in like the 0:24:16.796 --> 0:24:20.356 dumbest way possible. I thought, Yeah, I thought the clothes 0:24:20.356 --> 0:24:21.756 were going to come out on the market and on 0:24:21.796 --> 0:24:23.876 the website, and I was just gonna make tons of sales. 0:24:24.036 --> 0:24:25.636 I mean I was already selling when I was at 0:24:25.676 --> 0:24:28.516 the firm doing pop ups. But I really felt like 0:24:28.596 --> 0:24:30.916 if I moved to do this full time, you know, 0:24:30.916 --> 0:24:32.956 I was going to get a lot of like big 0:24:32.956 --> 0:24:35.796 store accounts, and next thing, you know, I would be 0:24:35.916 --> 0:24:37.836 like able to live off of this brand. 0:24:37.996 --> 0:24:42.116 Where did that delusion come from? I was gonna call 0:24:42.196 --> 0:24:48.316 it assuredness self assuredness delusion, you know. 0:24:50.116 --> 0:24:50.316 Yeah. 0:24:50.356 --> 0:24:53.556 I mean, you know, you're a lawyer and now you're 0:24:53.996 --> 0:24:55.556 quitting your job, and you're saying I'm going to end 0:24:55.636 --> 0:24:56.876 up in all these I. 0:24:56.836 --> 0:24:59.316 Think it's At first, I think it's not knowing, like 0:24:59.476 --> 0:25:03.316 not really understanding how challenging the fashion business really is. 0:25:04.276 --> 0:25:07.476 You have to know the business that you're entering, right, Like, 0:25:07.516 --> 0:25:09.516 if you're going to do what I did, should like 0:25:09.636 --> 0:25:12.596 have a deeper understanding of how the business works. Right. 0:25:12.916 --> 0:25:15.636 I didn't have that, right, Like, there's stuff that you 0:25:15.636 --> 0:25:20.196 can read from books, But like every business, anything you're pursuing, 0:25:20.356 --> 0:25:23.716 has its own language, has its own calendar, has its 0:25:23.716 --> 0:25:26.796 own scheduling, has its own way of people doing things 0:25:26.956 --> 0:25:30.556 in that space. So I immediately decide that I'm going 0:25:30.596 --> 0:25:32.956 to go to a trade show, and there's a huge 0:25:32.996 --> 0:25:35.636 trade show in Vegas. I'm resourceful, right, I'm on the 0:25:35.636 --> 0:25:39.036 computer clackety clock figuring out which trade shows are good 0:25:39.036 --> 0:25:41.556 for fashion. I buy a booth, right because I have 0:25:41.636 --> 0:25:43.996 all this money, And I buy a booth and put 0:25:43.996 --> 0:25:45.996 on my clothes, and again I'm thinking, I'm going to 0:25:46.036 --> 0:25:48.076 come back from that trade show and I'm going to 0:25:48.156 --> 0:25:50.996 have like fifty new stores and we're going to be 0:25:51.036 --> 0:25:56.756 in business. Go to Magic, which is that's the trade 0:25:56.796 --> 0:26:00.276 show in Vegas. Spend drag my best friend, We spend 0:26:00.436 --> 0:26:03.236 in hotels, we do everything. The booth is I think 0:26:03.276 --> 0:26:05.516 five thousand dollars, so you can do the Yeah, it's 0:26:05.516 --> 0:26:08.236 that expensive, you can do the math. And I come 0:26:08.276 --> 0:26:10.836 back with I think two or three store accounts. 0:26:12.476 --> 0:26:14.956 Now that that to me sounds like a success. 0:26:15.956 --> 0:26:18.356 I mean, we spent ten thousand dollars by the time 0:26:18.396 --> 0:26:21.996 I paid for the booth, our hotel, flying to Vegas, 0:26:22.036 --> 0:26:25.236 getting the close to Vegas. Uh, it was almost like 0:26:25.436 --> 0:26:28.316 seven or eight thousand dollars. And the orders are like 0:26:28.356 --> 0:26:33.436 two three thousand each maybe, so they're tiny stores. It's 0:26:33.516 --> 0:26:36.156 good in the sense that a couple places are like, oh, 0:26:36.356 --> 0:26:39.876 what you're doing is interesting. I remember getting a lot 0:26:39.876 --> 0:26:42.636 of questions and like and it's still something I battle 0:26:42.716 --> 0:26:45.156 against today. It's like, are these made by a collective? 0:26:45.236 --> 0:26:51.036 In Africa? It's like, no, we don't do collectives. You know, 0:26:51.356 --> 0:26:54.236 there's a lot of attachment to that idea of like 0:26:54.476 --> 0:26:58.476 a collective of women like so wingful, Like people have 0:26:58.516 --> 0:27:00.636 a thing about that, and I'm like, no, we don't 0:27:00.836 --> 0:27:06.036 think that this very charitable model, like oh, you're helping 0:27:06.076 --> 0:27:09.876 the women. Oh, And I'm like what, Like, no, we 0:27:09.916 --> 0:27:13.396 don't do that. I don't know anything about collectives. So 0:27:13.796 --> 0:27:16.116 I pay for magic right, Like in my brain this 0:27:16.156 --> 0:27:17.796 is going to be like, get me to where I 0:27:17.836 --> 0:27:20.716 need to go. I would walk into boutiques and be like, 0:27:20.756 --> 0:27:24.476 hey you, I'm a designer from Brooklyn and and you know, 0:27:24.556 --> 0:27:26.676 would love to sell you my collection. You don't do that. 0:27:26.676 --> 0:27:29.756 That's not how the business works. There's a schedule to 0:27:29.836 --> 0:27:32.276 these things. You can't just walk into somebody's store and 0:27:32.316 --> 0:27:34.636 say like, do you want to buy my stuff? So 0:27:34.716 --> 0:27:36.956 I just make so many mistakes. I still keep having 0:27:36.956 --> 0:27:38.836 my pop ups, which are like people are starting to 0:27:38.916 --> 0:27:42.116 respond to. So I would basically rent a space. I 0:27:42.196 --> 0:27:44.556 ended up for most of the life of the brand 0:27:44.676 --> 0:27:48.276 before things kind of blew up, renting a space on 0:27:48.316 --> 0:27:51.516 Avenue C and would literally set up my clothes, would 0:27:51.516 --> 0:27:54.916 take all my racks and all the clothes and set 0:27:54.916 --> 0:27:58.116 them up in the space and invite people to come 0:27:58.196 --> 0:28:02.556 for two days to come buy from us Avenue C 0:28:02.716 --> 0:28:05.796 and the Lower East Side. Literally, these guys, I forget 0:28:05.796 --> 0:28:07.956 how I found them. They just had an empty space 0:28:07.996 --> 0:28:10.356 and they would rent it out to different different businesses. 0:28:10.876 --> 0:28:13.276 So once I found them, I would do a pop 0:28:13.356 --> 0:28:15.916 up like three or four times a year. But I 0:28:15.956 --> 0:28:19.556 mean I blew through the savings very very quickly. So 0:28:19.676 --> 0:28:21.796 by twenty fifteen. I was broke. 0:28:22.196 --> 0:28:23.956 I had no money, and you started this thing. 0:28:24.116 --> 0:28:27.556 Twenty eleven late twenty eleven. Twenty twelve was like our 0:28:27.556 --> 0:28:31.236 official launch, So by twenty fifteen there was no money left. 0:28:32.556 --> 0:28:35.196 Welcome back with the rest of my conversation with Bussio 0:28:35.276 --> 0:28:49.236 O Lupona. After the break, after diving headfirst into the 0:28:49.276 --> 0:28:52.156 fashion world without doing the legwork to understand the industry, 0:28:52.636 --> 0:28:55.636 Bussio lost all her money. She had to find a 0:28:55.636 --> 0:28:58.596 way to sustain herself and to keep her business dreams alive. 0:28:59.516 --> 0:29:01.996 Went back to applying for jobs, legal jobs, which was 0:29:02.036 --> 0:29:05.076 really painful. Crazily, I ended up getting a job with 0:29:05.156 --> 0:29:07.916 New York City, like literally under the nick of time. 0:29:08.516 --> 0:29:10.396 I got a job as a lawyer for one of 0:29:10.396 --> 0:29:14.716 the agencies for the city. That was March of twenty fifteen. 0:29:15.236 --> 0:29:17.876 And the joke was we were in one office when 0:29:17.916 --> 0:29:21.476 I got the job, and then within like nine months 0:29:21.516 --> 0:29:24.276 we were moving to a new office, and the new 0:29:24.316 --> 0:29:27.756 office was in the same building as Clary Gottlieb as 0:29:27.796 --> 0:29:35.636 my law firm. Yeah, and I remember walking in to 0:29:35.756 --> 0:29:40.476 the same building and making a third of what I 0:29:40.516 --> 0:29:45.636 made before, No secretary, nothing, sitting in a tiny cubicle 0:29:45.676 --> 0:29:48.476 that is maybe half the space of this tiny room 0:29:48.516 --> 0:29:51.716 that you and I were sitting in bullpen where everyone's 0:29:51.756 --> 0:29:54.396 around you. And I remember the first day I cried 0:29:54.596 --> 0:29:57.556 because now I was like the brand wasn't doing well, 0:29:57.596 --> 0:30:00.036 I wasn't making any money, and now I had to 0:30:00.076 --> 0:30:01.636 go back to law. 0:30:01.556 --> 0:30:07.556 Back to where you started literally physically with the Wars office. 0:30:07.756 --> 0:30:10.516 Yeah, with nothing, like I felt at the time, felt 0:30:10.516 --> 0:30:14.836 like I was like spiraling, like you know, And I 0:30:14.876 --> 0:30:17.956 remember that it was like walking in that day and 0:30:17.956 --> 0:30:20.356 then seeing the people, you know, because I left. I 0:30:20.436 --> 0:30:22.396 left the firm like I'm going to go launch my 0:30:22.476 --> 0:30:26.436 business and you know, the fanfare of that, and now 0:30:26.476 --> 0:30:29.996 I'm coming back and like now I'm like a worker bee, 0:30:30.076 --> 0:30:34.076 like really worker bee. And it was really painful. It 0:30:34.116 --> 0:30:36.036 was really painful for like a few weeks because I 0:30:36.036 --> 0:30:38.476 had to kind of make that mental shift like this 0:30:38.556 --> 0:30:40.756 is why we're here, and we have to like make 0:30:40.756 --> 0:30:43.276 a living and we have to like there's certain things 0:30:43.316 --> 0:30:45.556 that we have to do to get ourselves. And at 0:30:45.556 --> 0:30:49.996 this point, I'm thirty seven, thirty six, right, I don't 0:30:50.036 --> 0:30:52.596 own a home. There are things that I want for 0:30:52.676 --> 0:30:55.396 myself that I don't have. Yea, I have this business 0:30:55.396 --> 0:30:58.796 that's like fledgling and barely making it. So this is 0:30:58.796 --> 0:31:00.836 when I do think about the wisdom of my father, 0:31:00.956 --> 0:31:03.396 which is I have a certificate that I can use. 0:31:04.036 --> 0:31:06.076 So I was able to like dust that thing off 0:31:06.916 --> 0:31:10.276 and get another job. And then that was the beginning 0:31:10.316 --> 0:31:12.236 of what I think is like the kind of second 0:31:12.236 --> 0:31:13.276 phase of the business. 0:31:13.636 --> 0:31:16.036 How did you recover from that beyond being able to 0:31:16.076 --> 0:31:19.996 reset at this job? Like what did what did you 0:31:20.076 --> 0:31:24.036 do beyond being on the reset so that. 0:31:23.316 --> 0:31:25.916 That job is a lifeline, right, Like, and I think that, 0:31:26.036 --> 0:31:28.476 you know, when I was thinking about this conversation, we 0:31:28.636 --> 0:31:31.396 never know how our story is ending right or where 0:31:31.396 --> 0:31:34.916 it's going right. So in that moment, I, as I 0:31:34.956 --> 0:31:37.316 told you, as I entered that building, I was so devastated. 0:31:37.356 --> 0:31:40.236 I just like I'd lost something, you know. But it 0:31:40.276 --> 0:31:43.356 was all about what people were going to say, Like oh, 0:31:43.396 --> 0:31:45.356 if I run into someone and be like, oh, what 0:31:45.356 --> 0:31:47.436 are you doing here? You know, Like so much of 0:31:47.436 --> 0:31:54.516 my angst was about the outside appearance. And then twenty nineteen, 0:31:54.556 --> 0:31:58.356 I had like a major health challenge that would have 0:31:58.516 --> 0:32:01.796 bankrupted me if I had not had this job, right, 0:32:01.996 --> 0:32:05.476 if I had just been a working artist, like the 0:32:05.516 --> 0:32:09.996 bills were astronomical and if I didn't have this job, like, 0:32:10.116 --> 0:32:13.796 there's no way. And so for me, that job ended 0:32:13.876 --> 0:32:15.996 up saving my life. And then more than that, it 0:32:16.036 --> 0:32:18.836 gave me a little bit of peace of mind because 0:32:18.836 --> 0:32:20.916 I wasn't waking up every day like I've got to 0:32:20.916 --> 0:32:23.116 sell these dresses, I've got to sell these stresses. Like 0:32:23.196 --> 0:32:26.076 I could kind of be a little bit more relaxed 0:32:26.156 --> 0:32:29.236 about my work and my designs and think about what 0:32:29.316 --> 0:32:31.316 do I want to see in the world, and if 0:32:31.316 --> 0:32:33.916 I have a pop up, I wasn't like hysterical, like 0:32:33.996 --> 0:32:36.756 if nobody buys anything, I'm not going to be able 0:32:36.756 --> 0:32:38.556 to pay my rent. Like I didn't have that kind 0:32:38.556 --> 0:32:41.636 of energy which people can smell that this is counterintuitive. 0:32:41.756 --> 0:32:45.716 So it's sort of like not putting the entirety of 0:32:45.756 --> 0:32:49.396 your energy into your business, which you would think that's 0:32:49.436 --> 0:32:54.716 the move really allowed it the space that needed to 0:32:54.796 --> 0:32:56.796 grow yep in its own time. 0:32:56.996 --> 0:33:01.716 YEP. This government legal job was a normal nine to five, right. 0:33:01.756 --> 0:33:07.916 It was a very low stakes, low intensity environment. And 0:33:07.956 --> 0:33:11.116 so because of that, we actually have a lot of 0:33:11.156 --> 0:33:15.076 time outside for where the business was at at that time. 0:33:15.716 --> 0:33:18.316 It was actually the perfect thing and I could approach 0:33:18.396 --> 0:33:21.836 it now with love and compassion and passion. I was 0:33:21.876 --> 0:33:24.316 like doing this because I wanted to, not because I 0:33:24.316 --> 0:33:27.556 had to pay the bills. And that completely changed my 0:33:27.636 --> 0:33:30.876 relationship with the business and also gave me peace of mind. 0:33:31.196 --> 0:33:33.116 That was like the biggest, the biggest gift that I 0:33:33.116 --> 0:33:35.596 got from that job, and so I was able to 0:33:35.996 --> 0:33:39.116 use that time to really keep working on my baby, 0:33:39.276 --> 0:33:42.036 my business, and so it really freed me up. And 0:33:42.036 --> 0:33:43.596 then also the energy I brought to it was just 0:33:43.596 --> 0:33:45.916 totally different because now I didn't need it. I was 0:33:45.956 --> 0:33:46.916 doing it because I wanted to. 0:33:47.596 --> 0:33:49.276 Now that you have the sort of freedom, like what 0:33:49.316 --> 0:33:52.676 were the sort of successes that started to accumulate that 0:33:52.796 --> 0:33:54.796 allowed you to be where you're at now. 0:33:55.156 --> 0:33:58.676 Yeah, so there were a few things. Twenty thirteen, I'd 0:33:58.716 --> 0:34:02.476 seen a film Pariah Now my friend at a peros 0:34:02.676 --> 0:34:05.436 Ouduie start in the film, and something in my spirit 0:34:05.476 --> 0:34:08.036 just said, like reach out to her and message her 0:34:08.076 --> 0:34:10.596 and like say hi, and introduce the brand to her 0:34:10.596 --> 0:34:12.836 and see if you dress her for something. I didn't 0:34:12.876 --> 0:34:15.236 know her. I found her on Facebook at the time. 0:34:15.316 --> 0:34:17.916 I feel like now she would probably not respond. But 0:34:18.036 --> 0:34:20.916 at the time, you know, was before like social media 0:34:21.036 --> 0:34:24.076 was you know, very like it was still early twenty twelve, 0:34:24.156 --> 0:34:25.196 twenty thirteen, so. 0:34:25.156 --> 0:34:28.116 It's as curate, manicured ass. 0:34:28.276 --> 0:34:30.276 So I messaged at a Pero and I was like, hey, 0:34:30.276 --> 0:34:32.476 I saw your movie. I loved it. I would love 0:34:32.476 --> 0:34:35.116 to dress you for something. She's like, oh, thank you. 0:34:35.556 --> 0:34:36.876 Where are you. I'm like, I'm in Brooklyn. She's like, 0:34:36.916 --> 0:34:38.236 oh my god, I'm in Brooklyn. And I was like, well, 0:34:38.276 --> 0:34:39.756 do you want to come over? And she came over 0:34:39.836 --> 0:34:42.996 and tried on clothes and is still a dear friend 0:34:43.036 --> 0:34:47.836 of mine. And she ended up introducing the brand to 0:34:47.956 --> 0:34:50.956 so many of her friends who are other actors. So 0:34:51.036 --> 0:34:53.596 Lupizza ended up wearing us in twenty fifteen. 0:34:53.876 --> 0:34:55.276 Oh I you're using first names here. 0:34:56.396 --> 0:35:00.476 Lupita and Youngo. Yeah, but that was from but that 0:35:00.596 --> 0:35:02.636 was literally from I mean the way that that was 0:35:02.676 --> 0:35:05.636 from this just this a little tiny thought that was like, 0:35:05.636 --> 0:35:07.996 oh you should you know I saw this movie at 0:35:07.996 --> 0:35:10.516 a pero. Is your by like me from Nigeria? And 0:35:10.556 --> 0:35:13.116 something said message her and see if she would want 0:35:13.116 --> 0:35:13.716 to dress her. 0:35:14.076 --> 0:35:16.636 I think it goes to show how often these little 0:35:16.676 --> 0:35:18.476 gestures can actually pay off. 0:35:18.556 --> 0:35:22.196 Yep, they can pay off hugely. Yeah, big lely big 0:35:23.116 --> 0:35:26.196 The pay off bigley. They can pay off bigly because 0:35:26.236 --> 0:35:29.516 that message messaging her on Facebook is what led to 0:35:30.236 --> 0:35:32.716 She had done twelve years of slave with Lupita and 0:35:32.836 --> 0:35:36.796 introduced us, and then we ended up dressing Lupita for 0:35:37.076 --> 0:35:39.116 I think a press tour in twenty fifteen. Just like 0:35:39.276 --> 0:35:43.596 just a few pieces, you know, along the way, I 0:35:43.756 --> 0:35:46.036 find mentors. So one of my mentors a woman named 0:35:46.076 --> 0:35:50.916 Mercedes Gonzales, who really teaches me like, this is how 0:35:50.956 --> 0:35:53.076 the fashion business works, these are the things that you 0:35:53.156 --> 0:35:56.436 need to be doing at this time. I'd seen Mercedes 0:35:56.476 --> 0:35:59.356 speak when I went to Magic in Vegas and. 0:35:59.436 --> 0:36:01.396 The first one, yeah, the first one were you. 0:36:01.476 --> 0:36:03.996 Lost where I lost? I didn't make any money, And 0:36:04.116 --> 0:36:07.036 she kind of adopted me and she's just an amazing 0:36:07.036 --> 0:36:09.796 woman and kind of came back and and it really 0:36:09.796 --> 0:36:12.116 became her student and was just like, Okay, what do 0:36:12.156 --> 0:36:15.116 I do? And I always say she's really instrumental in 0:36:15.156 --> 0:36:20.276 the brand's success because even though I wasn't selling successfully 0:36:20.996 --> 0:36:24.436 every season, she was demanding a new collection. So like 0:36:25.156 --> 0:36:28.316 when you haven't sold last season's collection and someone is like, 0:36:28.796 --> 0:36:33.276 where's the new collection, You're kind of like, uh, excuse. 0:36:32.796 --> 0:36:35.396 Me, You're not feeling inspired to create, but. 0:36:35.356 --> 0:36:37.756 She is like, where's the new collection? Have you shot 0:36:37.796 --> 0:36:41.156 the collection? Like she was just really on top of 0:36:41.396 --> 0:36:44.716 because she mentors like a number of fashion designers, and 0:36:44.796 --> 0:36:47.596 she had really taken me under her wing and really 0:36:48.356 --> 0:36:51.556 demanded that I like show up to the marketplace every season, 0:36:51.836 --> 0:36:53.516 because if you don't have a new collection, you're not 0:36:53.796 --> 0:36:56.916 a fashion designer. Even though I was like, wait, nobody 0:36:56.916 --> 0:37:01.956 bought the last one, you know, Mercedes was like, where's 0:37:01.996 --> 0:37:04.556 the next collection? And she really was on top of that, 0:37:04.836 --> 0:37:07.596 you know. And then are you making calls to stores? 0:37:07.636 --> 0:37:10.236 Are you trying to sell it? And I cold calling? 0:37:10.276 --> 0:37:12.676 I was so bad at it because you think, okay, 0:37:12.796 --> 0:37:17.516 I'm I'm selling you something and I'm somehow intruding on you, 0:37:17.516 --> 0:37:22.476 you know, and my brain would just like couldn't, couldn't 0:37:22.516 --> 0:37:24.596 do it, you know. It was really struggling with like 0:37:25.076 --> 0:37:26.956 cold calls and all that stuff, which is what you 0:37:26.996 --> 0:37:28.956 have to do as a designer. You have to get 0:37:28.956 --> 0:37:30.756 in front of the people that you want to sell 0:37:30.756 --> 0:37:33.676 your clothes to. That's like really critical and I just 0:37:33.836 --> 0:37:36.476 was really struggling with that. I mean, I think fashion 0:37:36.516 --> 0:37:39.076 is interesting, like you can have a brand and you 0:37:39.076 --> 0:37:40.796 can do all the fashion shows you want, and you 0:37:40.796 --> 0:37:42.476 can have all the press you want, but if you're 0:37:42.516 --> 0:37:47.076 not selling, what's the point, you know? And I also 0:37:47.156 --> 0:37:51.476 really love Mercedes for that because she, you know, she 0:37:51.556 --> 0:37:53.436 says this thing that I think is really useful for 0:37:53.476 --> 0:37:56.236 fashion designers to hear, but for any business, which is 0:37:56.316 --> 0:37:57.876 are you trying to get rich or are you trying 0:37:57.876 --> 0:37:59.676 to get famous? And if you're trying to get famous, 0:37:59.716 --> 0:38:02.316 this is not the business for you, especially for fashion, 0:38:02.636 --> 0:38:05.716 because I think you can actually get it confused, like 0:38:05.756 --> 0:38:07.756 if you're getting all the press and you're getting all 0:38:07.796 --> 0:38:11.156 these things that somehow how like the business is successful, 0:38:11.716 --> 0:38:15.716 and if you are not actually selling, you don't have 0:38:15.756 --> 0:38:19.116 a business. You just don't, even with all the press, 0:38:19.596 --> 0:38:22.436 you know. So I'm always trying to like, I appreciate 0:38:22.436 --> 0:38:25.636 the press, it's fantastic, but that's like the most important 0:38:25.636 --> 0:38:28.076 part is like are you in the marketplace and are 0:38:28.116 --> 0:38:29.116 people buying the product? 0:38:29.396 --> 0:38:32.596 So if you need to ask yourself the question are 0:38:32.596 --> 0:38:33.876 you in this to be famous or are you in 0:38:33.916 --> 0:38:39.036 this to sell close to be rich? To be rich? 0:38:38.116 --> 0:38:41.156 Which we to be rich is how she puts it. Yeah, 0:38:41.196 --> 0:38:43.516 which which we can just distill down to like to 0:38:43.596 --> 0:38:46.476 sell clothes to actually sell the tab people enjoy the 0:38:46.556 --> 0:38:49.756 thing and buy the thing and spread through word of 0:38:49.756 --> 0:38:51.916 mouth or however right people wanting to go into buy 0:38:51.956 --> 0:38:55.116 your thing. Do you need to be in department stores 0:38:55.516 --> 0:38:56.836 to be rich as a designer. 0:38:57.076 --> 0:39:01.596 A lot of people disagree with the answer because many 0:39:01.596 --> 0:39:02.636 people will tell you like. 0:39:02.676 --> 0:39:04.756 Oh, no, you can be boutique. 0:39:04.836 --> 0:39:06.876 You can be boutique. But to be honest with you, 0:39:06.956 --> 0:39:11.036 my experience in terms of scaling, it would have been 0:39:11.156 --> 0:39:14.356 very very hard to do like a direct a consumer 0:39:14.396 --> 0:39:16.316 business and get to the point where we are at. 0:39:16.476 --> 0:39:20.316 It would have been very very difficult, even specialty boutiques. 0:39:20.356 --> 0:39:21.996 I think it would have just been really hard. I mean, 0:39:21.996 --> 0:39:25.476 for me, there was no path that I saw to 0:39:25.876 --> 0:39:28.276 being able to support the business and have it be 0:39:28.396 --> 0:39:32.796 like an independent successful brand without department stores. I just 0:39:32.916 --> 0:39:35.356 don't see it. You know. If I look at our 0:39:35.476 --> 0:39:39.156 numbers and like, who's our kind of biggest customers, it 0:39:39.276 --> 0:39:41.796 is our department stores. So it's really really difficult to 0:39:41.916 --> 0:39:43.676 kind of think about it without them. 0:39:43.756 --> 0:39:46.436 Like to end up there must feel really good. It 0:39:46.476 --> 0:39:49.196 does your stuff in this thing where you know, like 0:39:49.436 --> 0:39:52.356 even someone even if someone doesn't buy it, like people 0:39:52.396 --> 0:39:55.156 are seeing your stuff in masks as they go through. 0:39:55.356 --> 0:39:58.116 Yeah, seeing the name, I didn't think that I would 0:39:58.156 --> 0:40:00.676 get any kick out of it, but it really did well. 0:40:00.716 --> 0:40:02.516 Two things give me a kick being able to see 0:40:02.516 --> 0:40:08.516 made in Nigeria on our clothes because Nigeria. First of all, 0:40:08.716 --> 0:40:11.276 I say always say that ourpr in America is terrible, 0:40:11.716 --> 0:40:14.356 even in Nigeria, Like there's kind of a bias to 0:40:14.356 --> 0:40:17.236 whards made in Nigeria. Things. People will make stuff in 0:40:17.316 --> 0:40:19.436 Nigeria and put like maid in China on it, or 0:40:19.476 --> 0:40:22.956 like made in Italy or made in like India. 0:40:22.676 --> 0:40:23.676 Like that that makes it better. 0:40:23.836 --> 0:40:26.276 That makes it better. And so for me, there's something 0:40:26.436 --> 0:40:30.916 really intentional and really powerful about made in Nigeria in 0:40:31.116 --> 0:40:34.516 a place like sax right or name in Marcus, Like, 0:40:34.676 --> 0:40:39.076 that's really important to me. That is probably probably number one. Actually, 0:40:39.796 --> 0:40:43.436 I'm just so incredibly proud of that. And also, you know, 0:40:43.596 --> 0:40:48.556 we as a country really were really challenged economically, right, 0:40:48.636 --> 0:40:52.076 so to be able to create a company that employs 0:40:52.116 --> 0:40:57.076 people in Nigeria produces in Nigeria feels really empowering and 0:40:57.156 --> 0:40:57.876 feels amazing. 0:40:58.316 --> 0:41:00.636 How did you end up in Sacks name and Marcus? 0:41:01.116 --> 0:41:03.756 Come on, this is that's an incredible fee. 0:41:03.876 --> 0:41:07.636 So I think it would not be fair, it wouldn't 0:41:07.636 --> 0:41:10.836 be an accurate telling to not bring up everything that 0:41:10.916 --> 0:41:15.236 happened with the murder of George Floyd and the impact 0:41:15.316 --> 0:41:18.796 that that had in a number of industries is like 0:41:18.836 --> 0:41:21.036 a critical part of the story, Like there's no way 0:41:21.076 --> 0:41:23.436 to tell the story without that, and it just wouldn't 0:41:23.476 --> 0:41:28.476 be truthful. And the fact that this man was slaughtered 0:41:29.916 --> 0:41:33.436 and you know, we all watched, and that's literally what 0:41:34.476 --> 0:41:37.596 opened up many doors. I'm not saying that's the only reason, 0:41:38.516 --> 0:41:41.956 but there was just a seismic change in what consumers 0:41:41.996 --> 0:41:45.796 were demanding from stores, especially these stores that you know 0:41:45.836 --> 0:41:49.716 posted the black squares, right, So when twenty twenty happened, 0:41:50.076 --> 0:41:54.996 and I think people were challenging these companies to say, hey, 0:41:56.116 --> 0:41:59.916 do better in terms of the product assortment, who you're 0:41:59.956 --> 0:42:02.916 offering to us, who you're employing. Right, They were asking 0:42:02.956 --> 0:42:06.676 these questions kind of a three sixty degree view at 0:42:06.836 --> 0:42:09.396 how people were kind of putting their money or not 0:42:09.396 --> 0:42:12.076 putting the money where their mouth is. I think it 0:42:12.156 --> 0:42:15.676 compelled companies to kind of do a lot of inward examination, 0:42:16.396 --> 0:42:19.796 and many didn't like what they saw, right, Like, we 0:42:19.876 --> 0:42:22.516 don't have any black brands on our shelves. So we're 0:42:22.556 --> 0:42:25.436 putting up a score, but our clothes don't represent this 0:42:25.516 --> 0:42:28.116 thing that we're saying that we care about. And so 0:42:28.276 --> 0:42:31.716 I think that compelled many companies to make a change. 0:42:32.236 --> 0:42:36.476 And so one of the buyers at Sacks, Kelsey, she 0:42:36.556 --> 0:42:40.556 came across the brand and she brought us to the 0:42:40.876 --> 0:42:44.756 other buyer who was also named Kelsey, and said, hey, 0:42:44.796 --> 0:42:46.916 we think this would be great, And they were the 0:42:46.916 --> 0:42:49.196 first to I think it was within but this is 0:42:49.196 --> 0:42:51.756 what I'm saying, was like within weeks, Like you know, 0:42:51.876 --> 0:42:53.316 we went from back. 0:42:53.116 --> 0:42:54.356 In weeks the Black Square. 0:42:54.996 --> 0:42:56.836 It was probably a month or two after that. 0:42:57.156 --> 0:42:58.916 Weeks, Yeah, it's weeks. 0:42:59.076 --> 0:43:02.596 Yeah. But then Mercedes, remember she was prepared because she 0:43:02.636 --> 0:43:08.156 had been demanding a collection every season with photographs, So 0:43:08.276 --> 0:43:11.756 I was prepared. You know, what do they say about luck, right, 0:43:11.876 --> 0:43:13.316 Opportunity meets preparation. 0:43:13.996 --> 0:43:17.996 Being at a department store change good fortunes as a brand. 0:43:18.556 --> 0:43:21.116 Well, what happens is that once you're in one or two, 0:43:21.316 --> 0:43:23.556 then other I think people begin to look at you 0:43:23.996 --> 0:43:26.996 a little bit differently, and other stores start looking at 0:43:26.996 --> 0:43:30.556 you differently. So that's certainly changed. I mean, so that's 0:43:30.556 --> 0:43:32.836 definitely changed. I mean I was able to quit my job, 0:43:33.276 --> 0:43:34.676 finally quit your job. 0:43:34.716 --> 0:43:35.156 I mean that's you. 0:43:35.836 --> 0:43:38.116 That was everything that that was really. 0:43:38.116 --> 0:43:40.916 To be able to do that, you know, it's amazing. 0:43:41.716 --> 0:43:45.716 I feel very blessed, I really do. I feel profoundly blessed, 0:43:45.716 --> 0:43:49.196 and I think it's just one piece of a more 0:43:49.796 --> 0:43:54.516 Probably I feel like fashion is the doorway to like 0:43:54.916 --> 0:43:56.996 I come from a long line of teachers. Both my 0:43:57.036 --> 0:43:59.996 parents are teachers, my grandparents were teachers, so part of 0:44:00.036 --> 0:44:02.676 me really feels like that's probably my bigger calling, not 0:44:02.716 --> 0:44:07.436 necessarily like in a classroom, but using this opportunity. The 0:44:07.476 --> 0:44:10.076 storytelling piece of the brand is and really critical for 0:44:10.196 --> 0:44:13.356 me in terms of how do I tell stories that 0:44:13.396 --> 0:44:18.596 complicate the perception of Nigeria, the perception of Africa, the 0:44:18.596 --> 0:44:22.556 perception of Yuba culture, you know, things like our first 0:44:22.556 --> 0:44:25.436 and only video to ever go viral was a video 0:44:25.556 --> 0:44:30.076 from our twenty seventeen editorial shoot of our model getting 0:44:30.116 --> 0:44:32.916 her hair done the way my mom had done my hair, 0:44:33.716 --> 0:44:37.556 the hair style that I took to my first day 0:44:37.676 --> 0:44:41.236 at junior high. But there's a video of the model 0:44:41.236 --> 0:44:44.676 getting her hair done and getting wrapped with thread. So 0:44:44.756 --> 0:44:47.356 literally we shot it while we were shooting our editorial 0:44:47.396 --> 0:44:51.316 collection and posted on Instagram. I wake up the next 0:44:51.356 --> 0:44:53.076 day and I have like two thousand more followers. Then 0:44:53.076 --> 0:44:55.476 when I went to bed and my just like, something's 0:44:55.516 --> 0:44:59.996 happening on your Instagram and literally was that video. Shortly thereafter, 0:45:00.676 --> 0:45:03.196 someone at Vogue saw it and actually wrote an article 0:45:03.916 --> 0:45:07.676 about Bussio what about how this brand was like exploring 0:45:07.796 --> 0:45:13.156 traditional Nigerian hair styles through kind of documenting and telling 0:45:13.196 --> 0:45:16.156 the story. It was just about the hair, not really 0:45:16.156 --> 0:45:18.476 about the clothes. But I was like I'll take that. 0:45:18.676 --> 0:45:21.396 So I was like, we're in Vogue, you know, because 0:45:22.556 --> 0:45:27.156 you know my exploration of you're about culture and Nigerian 0:45:27.556 --> 0:45:32.076 traditions really in an attempt to situate the clothes, Like 0:45:32.116 --> 0:45:33.596 I don't want you to just like go and buy 0:45:33.596 --> 0:45:36.036 our clothes, Like I want you to understand the place 0:45:36.116 --> 0:45:40.236 from which this comes from. And so the storytelling piece 0:45:40.316 --> 0:45:43.036 is very compelling to me, Like I want you to 0:45:43.876 --> 0:45:45.836 I believe everyone can wear our clothes because I get 0:45:45.836 --> 0:45:47.956 that question a lot, but I want you to do 0:45:47.956 --> 0:45:48.436 a little more. 0:45:48.436 --> 0:45:49.236 Can be a white woman? 0:45:49.716 --> 0:45:52.676 Yeah, absolutely, I get it all the time. I get 0:45:52.676 --> 0:45:55.076 it all the time, but I want you to do 0:45:55.116 --> 0:45:57.996 a little more work in terms of understand a little 0:45:57.996 --> 0:46:00.676 bit about the culture from which this comes, understand why 0:46:00.756 --> 0:46:04.636 clothes are really important in that cultural context. And so 0:46:04.716 --> 0:46:07.356 that's my job to take you there and to teach 0:46:07.436 --> 0:46:10.036 you a little bit more about this place. And so 0:46:10.836 --> 0:46:14.716 documenting our process, taking our customers along with us as 0:46:14.756 --> 0:46:17.156 we make these clothes from the place in which we 0:46:17.196 --> 0:46:19.636 make it is like a really critical piece of the brand. 0:46:20.476 --> 0:46:25.156 If it's our food, if it's particular specific places in Nigeria, 0:46:25.716 --> 0:46:28.356 if it's the actual making of the fabrics. You know, 0:46:28.476 --> 0:46:32.756 so so much of the dying process I will document, 0:46:33.116 --> 0:46:35.636 you know, I'm taking people along with me on that journey. 0:46:35.676 --> 0:46:39.236 Like so it's been really an amazing entry way. I 0:46:39.236 --> 0:46:40.716 thought it was going to just be about the close, 0:46:40.796 --> 0:46:42.756 but it's become about so much more than that. 0:46:43.476 --> 0:46:47.116 It's amazing. Your mentor asked whether you're in it to 0:46:47.156 --> 0:46:50.156 be famous or rich. Yeah, seems like you've created a 0:46:50.196 --> 0:46:52.356 Thurston lane which is also to teach. 0:46:52.356 --> 0:46:55.076 Yeah, to teach and to have purpose, right, Like, cuse 0:46:55.156 --> 0:46:57.396 close all of this is we're all going to die, 0:46:57.836 --> 0:47:00.916 Like it's it's just closed at the end of the day, right, 0:47:01.236 --> 0:47:03.956 And I guess maybe I'm also at a point in 0:47:03.996 --> 0:47:06.476 my life where I'm really thinking about what it means 0:47:06.476 --> 0:47:08.756 to have like impact and what it means to have 0:47:09.356 --> 0:47:12.076 you know, what is it that people remember about their 0:47:12.116 --> 0:47:16.076 interactions with me, or with my brand or just in life. 0:47:16.076 --> 0:47:17.916 You know, what are the things that actually touch people. 0:47:18.356 --> 0:47:20.916 It's less about the actual physical thing, and it's much 0:47:20.956 --> 0:47:23.396 more about like did you teach someone, how did you 0:47:23.436 --> 0:47:27.036 make them feel? Did you inspire them? You know? And 0:47:27.116 --> 0:47:29.116 I don't have all the answers, but I certainly know 0:47:29.236 --> 0:47:34.476 that mentors made a huge, huge difference for me along 0:47:34.516 --> 0:47:37.556 the way. And I always hate listening to these types 0:47:37.556 --> 0:47:40.196 of conversations and just feel like I didn't get anything 0:47:40.236 --> 0:47:42.316 practical out of it, Like I got like just do it, 0:47:42.756 --> 0:47:45.276 you know. So that's why I'm like trying to drop 0:47:45.316 --> 0:47:47.796 as much resources as I can, because I really do 0:47:47.876 --> 0:47:50.356 think that it's really helpful for people to, you know, 0:47:50.436 --> 0:47:52.196 I want to listen to this conversation and be like, Okay, 0:47:52.236 --> 0:47:54.156 this is what I'm going to do next. You know, 0:47:54.356 --> 0:47:56.636 it's not that easy. And then the other thing is 0:47:56.636 --> 0:47:58.596 that the road was long for me. 0:47:58.916 --> 0:48:00.756 The road you didn't just go for your dream and 0:48:00.796 --> 0:48:02.476 that's the thing you did it. That's the thing. You 0:48:02.756 --> 0:48:04.996 didn't just go for your dream like you went some 0:48:05.076 --> 0:48:05.516 other ways. 0:48:05.556 --> 0:48:08.316 It was just long. It was long and secuitous. But 0:48:08.596 --> 0:48:10.476 I wouldn't change it. I wouldn't. 0:48:10.516 --> 0:48:10.676 You know. 0:48:10.716 --> 0:48:12.676 It's it's cliche to say, but I wouldn't change anything 0:48:12.676 --> 0:48:15.196 for the journey. This whole journey has taught me. Like 0:48:15.756 --> 0:48:17.876 when you have that little voice that tells you to 0:48:17.876 --> 0:48:22.036 do something, do it, like, do it immediately. It's actually 0:48:22.116 --> 0:48:24.556 it's coming with its own power. It's like that's how 0:48:24.996 --> 0:48:27.556 universe life is trying to help you. Yeah, you know, 0:48:28.036 --> 0:48:31.476 And oftentimes we either have like numbed that voice that 0:48:31.516 --> 0:48:33.756 we don't hear it, or we hear it and we say, 0:48:33.756 --> 0:48:35.956 oh no, we can't. I can't really do that. Oh no, 0:48:36.036 --> 0:48:37.276 if I do, you know, we think about all the 0:48:37.316 --> 0:48:40.316 reasons not to do it, and I still do it now. 0:48:40.676 --> 0:48:43.196 But what I know is that every single time I've 0:48:43.276 --> 0:48:45.436 listened to that voice and done the thing that it's 0:48:45.476 --> 0:48:48.996 told me to do, my life has changed. Even if 0:48:48.996 --> 0:48:51.476 it's by a tiny degree, it's changed. And so many 0:48:51.476 --> 0:48:53.116 tiny degrees is where you get to where you want 0:48:53.156 --> 0:48:53.316 to go. 0:48:54.196 --> 0:48:58.036 Well, thank you for sharing today, pussayo Olpona. 0:48:57.756 --> 0:48:59.756 Well, thank you. Nice to meet you justin It was 0:48:59.796 --> 0:49:01.476 a wonderful conversation. 0:49:02.396 --> 0:49:06.996 That was Bussyo Olopona, owner of Busio n YC. I'd 0:49:07.036 --> 0:49:08.396 like to thank her for the time she took out 0:49:08.396 --> 0:49:10.956 of her busy schedu during New York Fashion Week to 0:49:11.036 --> 0:49:15.916 share her story to bring joy. The Yoruba definition of 0:49:15.916 --> 0:49:20.156 busaio says a lot. What brings us joy and what 0:49:20.236 --> 0:49:24.596 about us our likes, desires, talents might bring joy to others. 0:49:25.516 --> 0:49:28.956 It's a simple but large question that could help hone 0:49:29.076 --> 0:49:33.156 our path. After all, when life's many unpredictable moments knock 0:49:33.236 --> 0:49:37.076 us off course, what do we often turn to the 0:49:37.196 --> 0:49:40.116 joy in our lives? So if you make your joy, 0:49:40.196 --> 0:49:45.636 your business success becomes a real privilege and well a joy. 0:49:46.676 --> 0:49:48.996 By the way, Busaiyah wanted to make sure I shared 0:49:48.996 --> 0:49:52.036 with you a list of books she's found helpful throughout 0:49:52.076 --> 0:49:55.436 her journey. You could find those in the show notes 0:49:55.516 --> 0:49:59.836 for this episode. Started from the Bottom is produced by 0:49:59.956 --> 0:50:04.716 David Jah, edited by Keisha Williams, Engineered by Eventaliday, Booked 0:50:04.796 --> 0:50:09.836 by Lord Morgan with production help from Lea Rose. Executive 0:50:09.836 --> 0:50:12.916 produced by Jacob Goldstein, Who's not all open the videos 0:50:13.276 --> 0:50:16.956 for Pushkin Industries. Our theme music's by Ben Holliday and 0:50:17.036 --> 0:50:21.316 David Ja featuring Anthony Jaggs and Savannah Joe Lack. Listen 0:50:21.356 --> 0:50:23.276 to start Up from the bottom wherever you get your 0:50:23.316 --> 0:50:26.676 podcasts and if you want ad free episodes available one 0:50:26.716 --> 0:50:30.556 week early sign up for Pushkin Plus. Check out Pushkin 0:50:30.636 --> 0:50:33.916 dot fm or the Apple Show page for more information. 0:50:34.436 --> 0:50:36.436 If you like her show, please remember to share, rate, 0:50:36.436 --> 0:50:40.956 and review us on your podcast app. I'm justin Richmond.