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Speaker 1: Hey to your Therapist listeners. It's Lori and Guy and

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Speaker 1: we have a quick update.

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Speaker 2: Many of you have told us that you get something

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Speaker 2: new out of each episode when you listen to it

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Speaker 2: again the second or third time. In fact, when we

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Speaker 2: listen to the episodes again, we also get takeaways we

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Speaker 2: didn't remember.

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Speaker 1: We're They're therapy is like that too. There are so

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Speaker 1: many learning moments in a session, and it's difficult to

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Speaker 1: absorb them all at once. So while we're not taping

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Speaker 1: new episodes right now, we are offering you our most

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Speaker 1: popular sessions as encores so that you can continue to

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Speaker 1: gain value from them.

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Speaker 2: We love doing the Therapists episodes, but we're each busy

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Speaker 2: with new and exciting projects that we hope you will

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Speaker 2: love just as much.

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Speaker 1: I have a new advice podcast called Since You Asked,

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Speaker 1: which you can get wherever you listen to podcasts.

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Speaker 2: And I have a new book coming out. It's called

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Speaker 2: Mind Overgrind, How to Break Free when work Hijacks your life,

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Speaker 2: and it will be published by Simon and Schuster. You

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Speaker 2: can find out more about it on my website.

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Speaker 1: You can learn more about these on our socials. And meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: we hope you find these Dear Therapists sessions as valuable

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Speaker 1: as we have making them for you. I'm Laurie Gottlieb.

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Speaker 1: I'm the author of Maybe You Should Talk to Someone,

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Speaker 1: and I write the Dear Therapist advice column for The Atlantic.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Guy Wench. I'm the author of Emotional First Aid,

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Speaker 2: and I write the Dear Guy advice column for TED.

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Speaker 2: And this is Dear Therapists. This week, we're going to

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Speaker 2: check in on our guests from season two to hear

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Speaker 2: how they're doing a year later.

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Speaker 1: First, a quick note, Dear Therapist is for informational purposes only.

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Speaker 1: It does not constitute medical or psychological advice and is

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Speaker 1: not a substitute for professional healthcare advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

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Speaker 1: Always seek the advice of your physician, mental health professional,

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Speaker 1: or other qualified health provider with any questions you may

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Speaker 1: have regarding a medical or psychological condition. By submitting a letter,

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Speaker 1: you are agreeing to let iHeartMedia use it in part

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Speaker 1: orn full, and we may edit it for length and clarity.

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Speaker 1: Sessions you'll hear all names have been changed for the

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Speaker 1: privacy of our guests.

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Speaker 2: So today we're going to check in with Audrey. Her

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Speaker 2: episode was called Audrey's narcissistic ex husband. Audie was struggling

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Speaker 2: with making sense of her marriage in hindsight, and she

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Speaker 2: was doing a lot of second guessing about her role

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Speaker 2: in the marriage and her husband's role and why he

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Speaker 2: left and why he left in such a cruel kind

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Speaker 2: of way. He was serving her divorce papers as she

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Speaker 2: was taking care of him after he had surgery, and

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Speaker 2: he didn't even tell her. She discovered it in the

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Speaker 2: mailbox as she's tending for him on the couch, and

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Speaker 2: because so much was left unresolved for her, she was

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Speaker 2: really focused on her ex husband's upcoming wedding and how

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Speaker 2: well he was treating his new partner and how loving

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Speaker 2: he was toward her, and making all these comparisons of

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Speaker 2: how he had been with her toward the end. And

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Speaker 2: what we discovered when talking with her is that she

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Speaker 2: really hasn't recovered and she was still spent too much

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Speaker 2: of her thoughts on her husband and not enough on herself.

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Speaker 2: So let's get a reminder of that session.

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Speaker 3: The wedding is coming up, the second marriage for my ex.

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Speaker 3: It's in six weeks, and it's.

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Speaker 4: Really been hard and I've been kind of denying myself

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Speaker 4: that that sort of compassion, just saying, oh, it's fine,

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Speaker 4: I'm happy for him, when really it's just it's painful

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Speaker 4: on a million levels.

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Speaker 2: You're listening to dea therapists. We'll be back after a

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Speaker 2: short break, and.

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Speaker 1: Now let's hear how things are going for Audrey a

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Speaker 1: year later.

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Speaker 3: Hi, Guy and Laurie. It's Audrey catching up after hard

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Speaker 3: to believe, after a year of being on the show.

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Speaker 3: I just wanted to let you know that. First of all,

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Speaker 3: I was able to keep up with the therapy for

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Speaker 3: the entire year. So I'm still seeing a therapist after

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Speaker 3: our talk, and it's been incredibly helpful. So we've just

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Speaker 3: gone over and continued the discussion from a lot of

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Speaker 3: what came up in my session, just about childhood and

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Speaker 3: influences and how to sort of look at myself in

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Speaker 3: these scenarios that were causing me so much trouble, particularly

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Speaker 3: my ex husband and his new marriage. So that's been

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Speaker 3: really good. The other assignment I was given was to

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Speaker 3: end the relationship with the person who was married, and

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Speaker 3: I did do that and since have started dating someone

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Speaker 3: new and it's been really incredible and interesting to be

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Speaker 3: in a quote unquote normal relationship because I think after

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Speaker 3: our talk, I really was looking at myself in the past,

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Speaker 3: you know, several months an assessing where I was contributing

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Speaker 3: to my own pain and discomfort in those relationships, why

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Speaker 3: I was choosing things that wouldn't go anywhere. And it's

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Speaker 3: taken some adjusting, but it feels really good to be

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Speaker 3: in a relationship where both of us can give and

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Speaker 3: I'm learning how to allow that, which is really hard

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Speaker 3: for me. And so as you can imagine, my focus

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Speaker 3: is much more on myself than it was before, you know,

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Speaker 3: I was harping on things from the past and not

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Speaker 3: really dealing with my own contribution to my issues. So

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Speaker 3: that part is really good. As far as the fun assignments,

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Speaker 3: I was definitely able to host people at my house

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Speaker 3: the night of my ex husband's new wedding, and it

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Speaker 3: just felt really good to have people in there. And

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Speaker 3: ever since, I've been doing a lot more of that

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Speaker 3: and creating just a space that's more about me and

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Speaker 3: my kids and the people in my life, and that

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Speaker 3: has made just a massive difference. So all those things

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Speaker 3: are really good. The only thing I wasn't able.

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Speaker 5: To do yet was get on that trip with my sister,

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Speaker 5: But this sort of leads to something that is very

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Speaker 5: important in what I want to share with you guys,

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Speaker 5: because it really shows how our top it found its

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Speaker 5: way into different aspects of my life. And so my

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Speaker 5: sisters and I were planning a trip, but we had

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Speaker 5: a family emergency come up not too long after we

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Speaker 5: did the show. My mother needed emergency surgery, and my

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Speaker 5: father had been suffering from Alzheimer's and was getting a

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Speaker 5: lot worse, and so when this all happened, there was

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Speaker 5: no one to take care of him right there, so

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Speaker 5: we all had to sort of fly up and manage

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Speaker 5: this really hard scenario with my mom being in the

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Speaker 5: hospital and him being confused, and just being back in

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Speaker 5: our childhood home and sort of facing some of the

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Speaker 5: things that were challenging.

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Speaker 3: But I realized going into that that just vibe and

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Speaker 3: having talked with you both, I have been a stronger

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Speaker 3: person since that call, and I think that it enabled

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Speaker 3: me to kind of cope with the difficulty of what

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Speaker 3: was going on with my family and be supportive to

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Speaker 3: my sisters and my parents in a way that I

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Speaker 3: don't think I would have been able to have done

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Speaker 3: if I was still caught up in this cycle of

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Speaker 3: being in relationships that were unhealthy, harping on my ex

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Speaker 3: husband in his new life and not my own, and

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Speaker 3: being in that position of relative strength, I am convinced

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Speaker 3: made a massive difference in my ability to just cope

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Speaker 3: with what was a really tough situation. But I just

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Speaker 3: found that I was coming from such a different place,

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Speaker 3: a place of calm, a place of self power, as

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Speaker 3: opposed to, you know, feeling small, which I had for

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Speaker 3: a very long time leading up to this. I wanted

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Speaker 3: to share that because again, it's just about the perspective

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Speaker 3: shift that I got from our call, and that perspective

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Speaker 3: was coming out of a victim mentality and much more

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Speaker 3: into a place of power and ownership of my own choices.

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Speaker 3: I just was blown away by how important it was

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Speaker 3: to begin this process, and I just want to thank

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Speaker 3: you guys so much, because I just feel like I

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Speaker 3: am different, you know, and I can't really emphasize that enough.

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Speaker 3: So thank you so much. Hopefully the you know, good

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Speaker 3: things will continue, and just keep seeing the impact of

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Speaker 3: this process and what has started. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: I think one of the big wins here for Audrey

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Speaker 1: was how a shift in one area led to a

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Speaker 1: shift in many areas in her life, starting with her relationship.

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Speaker 1: Once she began focusing on herself and not on her

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Speaker 1: ex husband, she was able to create space for her

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Speaker 1: own desires. So she left that relationship with the unavailable man.

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Speaker 1: She's now in a healthy relationship, what she calls a

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Speaker 1: normal relationship, maybe for the first time in her life,

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Speaker 1: and she's in a relationship where she can both give

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Speaker 1: and receive. In her marriage, she was giving a lot

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Speaker 1: and not getting a lot. So that's a big shift

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Speaker 1: for her. And she had also been avoiding getting close

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Speaker 1: to people in all of her earlier relationships. So I

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Speaker 1: think that now that she's able to let herself experiment

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Speaker 1: with getting close to this man in this healthy relationship

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Speaker 1: is real progress.

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Speaker 2: This was one of those that as I was listening

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Speaker 2: to the update, I was smiling so broadly because the

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Speaker 2: proof truly is in the pudding, you know. I mean,

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Speaker 2: our listeners need to understand that once you have the

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Speaker 2: insight about something, it's not like an that gets undone

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Speaker 2: and now the issue goes away. Now the work begins.

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Speaker 2: And I think the illustration of that is when she

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Speaker 2: says she's in a relationship where both of them are giving,

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Speaker 2: and that for her, the receiving is actually really difficult

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Speaker 2: because it's not natural, it's not comfortable, but she's working

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Speaker 2: on allowing it. She's working on absorbing it, on letting

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Speaker 2: that in. It's a great illustration of the work that

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Speaker 2: needs to be done in and after therapy and after,

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Speaker 2: I mean in between sessions and on yourself in between.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't mean it'll be easy to go against many

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Speaker 2: years of habit, and it takes constant mindfulness and intentionality

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Speaker 2: and effort. So she's clearly doing all of that, and

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Speaker 2: that's wonderful to hear.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I like seeing too, how when we have

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Speaker 1: more agency and we feel more centered in one area,

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Speaker 1: how it generalizes to other areas, like how she managed

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Speaker 1: that really difficult situation with a family crisis with both

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Speaker 1: her mom and her dad. She said she's feeling stronger

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Speaker 1: as a her sin, whereas before when we talked to

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Speaker 1: her a year ago, she felt very very fragile.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, And she says also that she feels like a

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Speaker 2: different person. And then she explains that there's a shift

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Speaker 2: in her perspective, but she actually means in her true

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Speaker 2: sense of identity, because she went from seeing herself as

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Speaker 2: a victim in the world to feel that even if

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Speaker 2: difficult things happen, and they have, she is more empowered

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Speaker 2: to handle them and to deal with them, and that

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Speaker 2: truly is changed. That truly is different because it's in

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Speaker 2: the core, it's in how she sees herself in relation

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Speaker 2: to the world. So that's about as substantive a change

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Speaker 2: as one can have.

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Speaker 1: And I think how she got there was by being

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Speaker 1: able to see her own role in what was keeping

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Speaker 1: her stuck, what was holding her back. And once we

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Speaker 1: can see that we can change what we're doing, even

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Speaker 1: if the circumstances out there are difficult, it opens up

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Speaker 1: a whole new world of possibilities for us, as it

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Speaker 1: did with Audrey. And this is something that I hope

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Speaker 1: our listeners take away too, that when they can really

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Speaker 1: look at what their own role is and what's not working,

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Speaker 1: there's so much possibility for change. Next week we'll hear

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Speaker 1: back from Paul to see how he's doing a year

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Speaker 1: after he came to us struggling to set limits with

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Speaker 1: his boss at work.

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Speaker 6: She would kind of contact me outside of work to

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Speaker 6: keep that conversation going. I would just see my phone

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Speaker 6: light up and be a text message and I said, Hey,

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Speaker 6: if this is work related and I'm not at work,

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Speaker 6: I really would like if you could just email me instead.

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Speaker 2: She didn't really do that.

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Speaker 1: If you're enjoying our podcast, don't forget to subscribe for

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Speaker 1: free so that you don't miss any episodes, and please

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Speaker 1: help support Dear Therapists by telling your friends about it

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Speaker 1: and leaving a review on Apple Podcasts. Your reviews really

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Speaker 1: help people to find the show.

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Speaker 2: If you have a dilemma you'd like to discuss with us,

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Speaker 2: email us at Lori and Guy at iHeartMedia dot com.

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Speaker 2: Our executive producer is Noel Brown. We are produced and

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Speaker 2: edited by Josh Fisher. Additional editing support by Helena Rosen,

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Speaker 2: John Washington and Zachary Fisher. Our interns are Ben Bernstein,

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Speaker 2: Emily Gucierrez and Silver Lifton. And special thanks to our

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Speaker 2: podcast Fairy Godmother Katie Curic. We can't wait to see

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Speaker 2: you at our next session. Deotherapist is a production of

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Speaker 2: iHeartRadio FID