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Speaker 1: I'm Laurie Gottlieb. I'm the author of Maybe You Should

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Speaker 1: Talk to Someone, and I write the Dear Therapist advice

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Speaker 1: column for the Atlantic. And I'm Guy Winch. I'm the

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Speaker 1: author of Emotional First Aid, and I write the Dear

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Speaker 1: Guy advice column fateed. And this is Dear Therapists. This

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Speaker 1: week we're going to check in on a guest from

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Speaker 1: season two to hear how they're doing a year later. First,

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Speaker 1: a quick note, Dear Therapist is for informational purposes only.

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Speaker 1: It does not constitute medical or psychological advice, and is

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Speaker 1: not a substitute for professional health care advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

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Speaker 1: Always seek the advice of your physician, mental health professional,

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Speaker 1: or other qualified health provider with any questions you may

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Speaker 1: have regarding a medical or psychological condition. By submitting a letter,

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Speaker 1: you are agreeing to let iHeart Media use it in

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Speaker 1: part orn full, and we may edit it for length

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Speaker 1: and clarity. In the sessions you'll hear, all names have

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Speaker 1: been changed for the privacy of our guests. So today

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Speaker 1: we're gonna check in with Audrey. Her episode was called

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Speaker 1: Audrey's Narcissistic ex Husband. Audrey was struggling with making sense

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Speaker 1: of her marriage in hindsight, and she was doing a

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Speaker 1: lot of second guessing about her role in the marriage

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Speaker 1: and her husband's role and why he left and why

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Speaker 1: he left in such a cruel kind of way. He

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Speaker 1: was serving her divorce papers as she was taking care

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Speaker 1: of him after he had surgery, and he didn't even

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Speaker 1: tell her. She discovered it in the mailbox as she's

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Speaker 1: tending for him on the couch, and because so much

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Speaker 1: was left unresolved for her, she was really focused on

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Speaker 1: her ex husband's upcoming wedding and how well he was

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Speaker 1: treating his new partner and how loving he was towards her,

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Speaker 1: and making all these comparisons of how he had been

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Speaker 1: with her towards the end. And what we discovered when

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Speaker 1: talking with her is that she really hasn't recovered and

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Speaker 1: she was still spending too much of her thoughts on

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Speaker 1: her husband and not enough on herself. So let's get

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Speaker 1: a reminder of that session. The wedding is coming up,

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Speaker 1: the second marriage from my ex. It's in six weeks,

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Speaker 1: and it's really been hard, and I've been kind of

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Speaker 1: denying myself that that's sort of compassion, just saying, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's fine, I'm happy for him when really it's just

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Speaker 1: it's painful on a million levels. You're listening to dea

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Speaker 1: therapists will be back after a short break, and now

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Speaker 1: let's hear how things are going for Audrey a year later. Hi,

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Speaker 1: Guy and Laurie. It's Audrey catching up after hard to believe,

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Speaker 1: after a year of being on the show. I just

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Speaker 1: wanted to let you know that. First of all, I

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Speaker 1: was able to keep up with the therapy the entire year.

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Speaker 1: So I'm still seeing a therapist after our talk, and

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Speaker 1: it's been incredibly helpful. So we've just gone over and

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Speaker 1: continued the discussion from a lot of what came up

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Speaker 1: in my session, just about childhood and influences and how

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Speaker 1: to sort of look at myself in these scenarios that

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Speaker 1: were causing me so much trouble, particularly my ex husband

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Speaker 1: and his new marriage. So that's been really good. Um.

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Speaker 1: The other assignment I was given was to end the

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Speaker 1: relationship with the person who was married, and I did

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Speaker 1: do that and since have started dating someone new and

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Speaker 1: it's been really incredible and interesting to be in a

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Speaker 1: quote unquote normal relationship because I think after our talk,

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Speaker 1: I really was looking at myself in the past, you know,

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Speaker 1: several months an assessing where I was contributing to my

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Speaker 1: own pain and discomfort in those relationships, why I was

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Speaker 1: choosing things that wouldn't go anywhere, And it's taken some adjusting,

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Speaker 1: but it feels really good to be in a relationship

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Speaker 1: where both of us can give and I'm learning how

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Speaker 1: to allow that, which was really hard for me. And

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Speaker 1: so as you can imagine, my focus is much more

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Speaker 1: on myself than it was before. You know, I was

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Speaker 1: harping on things from the past and not really dealing

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Speaker 1: with my own contribution to my issues. So that part

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Speaker 1: is really good. Um. As far as the fun assignments,

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Speaker 1: I was definitely able to host people at my house

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Speaker 1: the night of my ex husband's new wedding and it

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Speaker 1: just felt really good to have people in there. And

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Speaker 1: ever since, I've been doing a lot more of that

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Speaker 1: and creating just a space that's more about me and

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Speaker 1: my kids and the people in my life, and that

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Speaker 1: has made just a massive difference. UM. So all those

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Speaker 1: things are really good. The only thing I wasn't able

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Speaker 1: to do yet was get on that trip with my sister. Um.

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Speaker 1: But this sort of leads to something that is very

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Speaker 1: important and what I want to share with you guys,

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Speaker 1: because it really shows how our talk if it found

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Speaker 1: its way into different aspects of my life. And so we,

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Speaker 1: my sisters and I were planning a trip um, but

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Speaker 1: we had a family emergency come up not too long

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Speaker 1: after we did the show. My mother needed emergency surgery,

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Speaker 1: and my father had been suffering from Alzheimer's and was

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Speaker 1: getting a lot worse, and so when this all happened,

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Speaker 1: there was no one to take care of him right there,

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Speaker 1: so we all had to sort of fly up and

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Speaker 1: manage this really hard scenario with my mom being in

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Speaker 1: the hospital and him being confused, and just being back

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Speaker 1: in our childhood home and sort of facing some of

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Speaker 1: the things that were challenging. But I realized going into

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Speaker 1: that that just fibe and having talked with you both,

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Speaker 1: I have been a stronger person since that call, and

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Speaker 1: I think that it enabled me to kind of cope

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Speaker 1: with the difficulty of what was going on with my

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Speaker 1: family and be supportive to my sisters and my parents

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Speaker 1: in a way that I don't think I would have

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Speaker 1: been able to have, you know, done, if I was

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Speaker 1: still caught up in this cycle of being in relationships

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Speaker 1: that were unhealthy, harping on my ex husband in his

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Speaker 1: new life and not my own, and being in that

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Speaker 1: position of relative strength, I am convinced to made a

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Speaker 1: massive difference in my ability to just cope with what

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Speaker 1: was a really tough situation. But I just found that

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Speaker 1: I was coming from such a different place, a place

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Speaker 1: of calm, a place of self power, as opposed to,

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Speaker 1: you know, feeling small, which I had for a very

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Speaker 1: long time leading up to this, And I wanted to

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Speaker 1: share that because again, it's just about the perspective shift

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Speaker 1: that I got from our call, and that perspective was

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Speaker 1: coming out of a victim mentality and much more into

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Speaker 1: a place of power and ownership of my own choices.

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Speaker 1: I just I was blown away by how important it

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Speaker 1: was to begin this process. And I just want to

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Speaker 1: thank you guys so much because I just feel like

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Speaker 1: I am different, you know, and uh, I can't really

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Speaker 1: emphasize that enough, So thank you so much. Hopefully the

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Speaker 1: you know, good things will continue, and just keep seeing

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Speaker 1: the impact of this process and what has started. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: I think one of the big winds here for Audrey

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Speaker 1: was how a shift in one area led to a

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Speaker 1: shift in many areas. In her life, starting with her relationship.

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Speaker 1: Once she began focusing on herself and not on her

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Speaker 1: ex husband, she was able to create space for her

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Speaker 1: own desire. So she left that relationship with the unavailable man.

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Speaker 1: She's now in a healthy relationship, what she calls a

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Speaker 1: normal relationship, maybe for the first time in her life,

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Speaker 1: and she's in a relationship where she can both give

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Speaker 1: and receive. In her marriage, she was giving a lot

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Speaker 1: and not getting a lot. So that's a big shift

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Speaker 1: for her. And she had also been avoiding getting close

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Speaker 1: to people in all of her earlier relationships. So I

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Speaker 1: think that now that she's able to let herself experiment

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Speaker 1: with getting close to this man in this healthy relationship

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Speaker 1: is real progress. This was one of those that as

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Speaker 1: I was listening to the update, I was smiling so

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Speaker 1: broadly because the proof truly is in the pudding, you know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, our listeners need to understand that once you

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Speaker 1: have the insight about something, it's not like a knot

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Speaker 1: that gets undone and now the issue goes away. Now

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Speaker 1: the work begins. And I think the illustration of that

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Speaker 1: is when she says she's in a relationship where both

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Speaker 1: of them are given thing and that for her, the

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Speaker 1: receiving is actually really difficult because it's not natural, it's

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Speaker 1: not comfortable, but she's working on allowing it. She's working

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Speaker 1: on absorbing it, on letting that in. It's a great

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Speaker 1: illustration of the work that needs to be done in

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Speaker 1: and after therapy and after, I mean in between sessions

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Speaker 1: and on yourself in between. It doesn't mean it will

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Speaker 1: be easy to go against many years of habit, and

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Speaker 1: it takes constant mindfulness and intentionality and efforts. So she's

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Speaker 1: clearly doing all of that, and that's wonderful to hear. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I like seeing too, how when we have more

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Speaker 1: agency and we feel more centered in one area, how

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Speaker 1: it generalizes to other areas, like how she managed that

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Speaker 1: really difficult situation with a family crisis with both her

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Speaker 1: mom and her dad. She said she's feeling stronger as

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Speaker 1: a person, whereas before when we talked to her a

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Speaker 1: year ago, she felt very, very fragile. Absolutely, and she

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Speaker 1: says also that she feels like a different person. And

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Speaker 1: then she explains that there's a shift in her perspective,

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Speaker 1: but she actually means in her true sense of identity,

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Speaker 1: because she went from seeing herself as a victim in

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Speaker 1: the world to feel that even if difficult things happen,

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Speaker 1: and they have, she is more empowered to handle them

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Speaker 1: and to deal with them, and that truly is changed.

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Speaker 1: That truly is different because it's in the core, it's

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Speaker 1: in how she sees herself in relation to the world.

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Speaker 1: So that's about as substantive a change as one can have.

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Speaker 1: And I think how she got there was by being

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Speaker 1: able to see her own role in what was keeping

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Speaker 1: her stuck, what was holding her back. And once we

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Speaker 1: can see that we can change what we're doing, even

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Speaker 1: if the circumstances out there are difficult, it opens up

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Speaker 1: a whole new world of possibilities for us, as it

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Speaker 1: did with Audrey. And this is something that I hope

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Speaker 1: our listeners take away too, that when they can really

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Speaker 1: look at what their own role is and what's not working,

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Speaker 1: there's so much possibility for change. Next week we'll hear

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Speaker 1: back from Paul to see how he's doing a year

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Speaker 1: after he came to us struggling to set limits with

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Speaker 1: his boss at work. She would kind of contact me

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Speaker 1: outside of work to keep that conversation going. I would

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Speaker 1: just see my phone light up and be a text

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Speaker 1: message and I said, Hey, if this is work related

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Speaker 1: and I'm not at work, I really would like if

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Speaker 1: you could just email me instead. She didn't really do that.

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Speaker 1: If you're enjoying our podcast, don't forget to subscribe for

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Speaker 1: dilemma you'd like to discuss with us, email us at

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Speaker 1: Lori and Guy at I heart media dot com. Our

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Speaker 1: executive producer is Noel Brown. We have produced and edited

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Speaker 1: by Josh Fisher. Additional editing support by Helena Rosen, John

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Speaker 1: Washington and Zachary Fisher. Are in turns are Ben Bernstein,

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Speaker 1: Emily Guccieriz and Silver Lifton. And special thanks to our

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Speaker 1: podcast fairy Godmother Katie Curic. We can't wait to see

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Speaker 1: you at our next session. The A Therapist is a

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Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio Fish fa