1
00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:12,680
Speaker 1: What really happened to Susan Burman was she murdered execution

2
00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:17,640
Speaker 1: style because she knew the truth of Robert Durst's wife

3
00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:24,480
Speaker 1: her disappearance. And I have gone to her home, her neighborhood,

4
00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:27,800
Speaker 1: and let me tell you people they are have no

5
00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:38,960
Speaker 1: doubt what happened to her crime stories with Nancy Grace.

6
00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:45,760
Speaker 1: They found their face down in her bedroom and there

7
00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:47,560
Speaker 1: was a single bullets shot to the back of the head.

8
00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:51,279
Speaker 1: There is no way on earth that Susan Burman led

9
00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:55,080
Speaker 1: a stranger into her house that night. She was shot

10
00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:58,920
Speaker 1: from behind while walking into a back room of the house.

11
00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:03,960
Speaker 1: She had to rust that person when I first heard

12
00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:08,520
Speaker 1: about what had happened that, yes, it had to be

13
00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:13,160
Speaker 1: somebody that we knew that she knew at least Bob

14
00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:19,399
Speaker 1: Durst tying up some loose ends, killing his best friend

15
00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:27,000
Speaker 1: to save himself. That's called That's called wow. That is

16
00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:31,840
Speaker 1: from True TV, Power, Privilege and Justice with Me an

17
00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:36,039
Speaker 1: All Star panel. Windy Patrick, California prosecutor, author Red Flags

18
00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:41,280
Speaker 1: at Wendy Patrick, PhD dot com. Cloyd Steiger thirty six

19
00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:45,479
Speaker 1: years Seattle PD including homicide author Seattle's Forgotten serial killer,

20
00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:50,840
Speaker 1: Gary Jane grant at Cloyd Steiger dot com, renowned forensics expert,

21
00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:54,440
Speaker 1: Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My

22
00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:59,720
Speaker 1: Feet on Amazon. Joseph Scott Morgan, psychoanalyst, joining us out

23
00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,480
Speaker 1: of Beverly Hills. They got a lot of problems. No

24
00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:06,120
Speaker 1: offense at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Doctor Bethany Marshall

25
00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:08,760
Speaker 1: with us, but right now to Crime online dot com

26
00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:12,600
Speaker 1: investigative reporter Crime Online, where you can find this in

27
00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:17,079
Speaker 1: all other breaking justice and crime news as it happens.

28
00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:20,720
Speaker 1: Leave I page. Let's just start, you know what. I

29
00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:24,000
Speaker 1: don't want to start at the beginning with Kathy Kathy Durst, Dad,

30
00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:28,080
Speaker 1: I think rolled up in a rug, her body likely

31
00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:31,800
Speaker 1: dumped into the waters. Let's start with Susan Burman. There's

32
00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,359
Speaker 1: just so many places to start. Or wait a minute, wait, wait,

33
00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:40,480
Speaker 1: wait wait? Or should I start with mister Black? Do

34
00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:45,000
Speaker 1: you remember him? That's another of Robert Durst's victims. Remember

35
00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:50,160
Speaker 1: when Robert Durst was caught dressed as a woman. Um

36
00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,000
Speaker 1: not judging, not judging at all. Don't care what he

37
00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:55,720
Speaker 1: had on, couldn't care less as long as he didn't

38
00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:59,840
Speaker 1: read my closet in like a convenience store shopping something

39
00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:05,000
Speaker 1: like it's not this, but something like a roast beef sandwich. Okay,

40
00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:09,400
Speaker 1: I try not to eat the food at the gas station.

41
00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:13,960
Speaker 1: There's just something wrong. I guess some people don't mind

42
00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:17,840
Speaker 1: eating their food sitting outside inhaling the guysoline fumes and diesel.

43
00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:21,880
Speaker 1: But he got caught shoplifting, and then it all unfolded,

44
00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:25,800
Speaker 1: as I recall, and then the poor old seventy six

45
00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,920
Speaker 1: year old neighbor's head was found by a little boy

46
00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:34,080
Speaker 1: fishing out Galveston Bay. That's how I remember. I think

47
00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:38,640
Speaker 1: his name was Maxwell Black. Sorry, no disrespect to the dead,

48
00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:43,520
Speaker 1: Maurice Black, Levi page. Let's just forget about the head

49
00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:47,840
Speaker 1: in Galveston because Robert Durst got let off by jury

50
00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,520
Speaker 1: on that they believed he dismembered the old man in

51
00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:55,040
Speaker 1: self defense. Okay, let that sink in. Let's start with

52
00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:58,960
Speaker 1: Susan Burman. Tee it up, LEVI. Nancy Susan Burman, just

53
00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,120
Speaker 1: so everybody knows who as she met Robert Durst in college.

54
00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:06,960
Speaker 1: They both attended University of California at Berkeley, and Durst

55
00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:10,160
Speaker 1: dropped out, but Burman got her master's degree in journalism.

56
00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:12,440
Speaker 1: They were best friends in college. Wait you just told

57
00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,200
Speaker 1: me something I didn't know. Okay, in wait a minute,

58
00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:17,960
Speaker 1: where did they go to college? You see Berkeley. You

59
00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:19,760
Speaker 1: know that's not as easy to get in as you

60
00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:21,960
Speaker 1: may think it is. That's kind of hard, all the

61
00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:26,400
Speaker 1: California colleges. I mean, look what Laurie Laughlin is accused

62
00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,600
Speaker 1: of doing to get her kids into USC. So they're

63
00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:34,120
Speaker 1: at Berkeley and he drops out. I'd like to know

64
00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:36,200
Speaker 1: what he was studying. But he drops out. She goes

65
00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:40,479
Speaker 1: on to get her master's. Interesting. Interesting that a brainiac

66
00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:44,000
Speaker 1: like her hung out with a dropout, not judging. Go ahead,

67
00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:47,440
Speaker 1: and she got her masters in journalism, and she tried

68
00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:50,920
Speaker 1: to become a journalist. She wrote a book about her

69
00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:53,800
Speaker 1: father who was in the mob. His name was Davey,

70
00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:57,159
Speaker 1: the Jew burman from Vegas. She wrote a book, and

71
00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:59,839
Speaker 1: she had planned to turn this book into a movie,

72
00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:03,400
Speaker 1: but Nancy, that never came to fruition. She moved to

73
00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,559
Speaker 1: Los Angeles. She tried and tried to get this book

74
00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,400
Speaker 1: made into a movie. It never happened. She was broke.

75
00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:12,200
Speaker 1: She had a trust fund, but she blew through the

76
00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,800
Speaker 1: trust fund, blew through the money from the book, and

77
00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,200
Speaker 1: Robert Durst, had you been giving her money? He was

78
00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:22,480
Speaker 1: connected to a real estate empire from New York and

79
00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:25,320
Speaker 1: he was giving her money. Nancy. Okay, wait, wait wait

80
00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:27,920
Speaker 1: wait wait, Levi, Levi, Levi, you got me drinking from

81
00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:31,480
Speaker 1: a high fire. Eygent again, Let's just pause, Let's just pause.

82
00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:36,120
Speaker 1: Say everything you're telling me is valuable to me, every sentence.

83
00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:39,200
Speaker 1: I want to stop you because so much of what

84
00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:43,800
Speaker 1: you're saying is significant to doctor Bethany Marshall, renowned psychoanalyst.

85
00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:48,480
Speaker 1: My kid are by saying to the stars. But doctor

86
00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:53,279
Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, let me be serious for a moment. Did

87
00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:56,880
Speaker 1: you hear what Levi I just said? Robert and real

88
00:05:56,960 --> 00:06:01,279
Speaker 1: estate magnate, a mogul, He and his family had everything

89
00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:05,440
Speaker 1: handed to them on a silver platter. I'm not jealous, true,

90
00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:07,240
Speaker 1: I grew up on a red dirt road with a

91
00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:10,200
Speaker 1: well dug in the backyard by my grandfather. But I'm

92
00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:14,960
Speaker 1: so happy, and frankly still am knock on wood, So

93
00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:19,000
Speaker 1: I don't begrudge them that. But what I'm saying is

94
00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:23,640
Speaker 1: it gives you a different mindset in view of the world.

95
00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:29,120
Speaker 1: Everything is attainable, everything, and you think in a different way.

96
00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,479
Speaker 1: I think your values are different and not judging, not

97
00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:34,960
Speaker 1: saying there any better or worse than anybody else's. It's

98
00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:38,520
Speaker 1: just a different mindset, doctor Bethany. He and Nancy absolutely

99
00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,400
Speaker 1: not only is it a different mindset, meaning he may

100
00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:45,279
Speaker 1: have grown up in an environment the world was his oyster.

101
00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:49,120
Speaker 1: He could obtain anything, there were no limits. Think about

102
00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:52,040
Speaker 1: the fact that he dropped out of UC Berkeley. He

103
00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:56,120
Speaker 1: was not worried about earning money or supporting himself. And

104
00:06:56,240 --> 00:07:00,480
Speaker 1: you know, the requirement to work and to support one's

105
00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:04,440
Speaker 1: own life is such an important precursor to good mental health.

106
00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:06,920
Speaker 1: We all have to support ourselves. And when you grow

107
00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:09,479
Speaker 1: up in an environment where that is not a requirement,

108
00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,720
Speaker 1: where somebody else is, not only are they supporting your

109
00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:16,480
Speaker 1: life through childhood, but you will be supported financially for

110
00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:20,680
Speaker 1: the rest of your life, that dramatically changes your mindset.

111
00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:25,520
Speaker 1: And also, he was supporting Burmant financially, which means that

112
00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:29,360
Speaker 1: that money didn't really mean much to him until he

113
00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,000
Speaker 1: was giving it away. People who have a lot of

114
00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,200
Speaker 1: money don't think much of it until somebody else wants it,

115
00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:37,680
Speaker 1: and then they can be notoriously cheap. You know, the

116
00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,000
Speaker 1: studies that people who have less money are more generous,

117
00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:44,040
Speaker 1: people who have more money are more stingy. And also

118
00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:46,880
Speaker 1: he had endless resources to commit whatever crimes he wanted

119
00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:49,320
Speaker 1: to commit through his life. I want to hear Susan

120
00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:54,360
Speaker 1: Bermant speaking to our friends at CBS murder victim confidant

121
00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:59,440
Speaker 1: of Robert Durst. Did she know exactly what happened to

122
00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:03,040
Speaker 1: Durst wife? My father, Davy Berman, who worked for Meyer,

123
00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,960
Speaker 1: Lansky and Frank Costello and Murder Incorporated. He came out

124
00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:08,520
Speaker 1: of Sing Sing. I believe it was the end of

125
00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:10,920
Speaker 1: the thirties. Lansky and Costello gave him a choice, what

126
00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:12,720
Speaker 1: city do you want to run, and we'll give you

127
00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:14,960
Speaker 1: a million dollars and he said, I just want train

128
00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,160
Speaker 1: fare to Minneapolis, and I want to run the rackets

129
00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:19,640
Speaker 1: into Twin Cities. This, of course is before gambling was legal.

130
00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:22,600
Speaker 1: My father's only skill was gambling, so he went to

131
00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:25,000
Speaker 1: the Twin Cities and that time it was wide open,

132
00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:27,040
Speaker 1: even though the police were paid off. This was the

133
00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,760
Speaker 1: end of the thirties the early forties, and he ran

134
00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:31,880
Speaker 1: Minneapolis for many years and he was very very good

135
00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,520
Speaker 1: about it and good at it. And then he went

136
00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:36,520
Speaker 1: to the war, he volunteered for service. He came back

137
00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:39,520
Speaker 1: a war hero in nineteen forty five, and Ben Segal

138
00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:42,480
Speaker 1: said to him, I have this fabulous idea. I've talked

139
00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:46,120
Speaker 1: Meyer Lansky into putting our money into Las Vegas, taking

140
00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,440
Speaker 1: some money out of Cuba. So in nineteen forty five,

141
00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:50,720
Speaker 1: when I was two months old, we came to join

142
00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:53,200
Speaker 1: my father. At that time, he was partner in three

143
00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:56,800
Speaker 1: downtown clubs in downtown Las Vegas, the Las Vegas Club,

144
00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:00,400
Speaker 1: the Eldorado, and the Apache, and Ben Segal wanted him

145
00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,320
Speaker 1: to go into partners They were all part of Lanski's group,

146
00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:07,319
Speaker 1: but there were many competing divisions because of Ben Siegel's temper.

147
00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:09,000
Speaker 1: My father always said, beware of a man with a

148
00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:10,960
Speaker 1: terrible temper. He was his best friend, but he didn't

149
00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,440
Speaker 1: want to be partners with him. But in nineteen forty six,

150
00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:17,640
Speaker 1: Myer Lansky talked my father into taking a partnership into Flamingo.

151
00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:20,839
Speaker 1: I grew up in the center of the world. In

152
00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:24,599
Speaker 1: my opinion. Of course, as a child, it seemed glamorous

153
00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,240
Speaker 1: and it seemed like we were very important, and our

154
00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:29,760
Speaker 1: town was because everyone came to Las Vegas. The end

155
00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,520
Speaker 1: of the forties the early fifties, Las Vegas was like

156
00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:35,400
Speaker 1: Monte Carlo in the United States, and my father was

157
00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:37,360
Speaker 1: always saying, oh, look there's a king. It was from

158
00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,920
Speaker 1: Thailand or something, or there's a count. I thought it

159
00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:43,400
Speaker 1: was the most glamorous city in the world, and all

160
00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:46,000
Speaker 1: things seemed possible. Celebrities, of course, came to our house

161
00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:47,960
Speaker 1: since my father owned the hotel, and my father was

162
00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:50,240
Speaker 1: kind of they said, the Henry Kissinger of Vegas. He

163
00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:52,280
Speaker 1: was very diplomatic, and he was the one that worked

164
00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:56,079
Speaker 1: out all the arguments between everyone else. He was a

165
00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:58,719
Speaker 1: silent partner in all seven hotels when he died in

166
00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,160
Speaker 1: ninety seven. So where were in the hotel's constant? My

167
00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:17,640
Speaker 1: father was the boss. Time Stories with Nancy Grace Regan.

168
00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,319
Speaker 1: Robert Durst, the New York real estate mogul whose life

169
00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:23,400
Speaker 1: was detailed in an HBO series, has been ordered to

170
00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:25,840
Speaker 1: stand trial for murder. Durrist is joined with killing his

171
00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:28,280
Speaker 1: friend Susan Burmant eighteen years ago at her home in

172
00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:31,280
Speaker 1: Bennedic Canyon. Prosecutors say he didn't due to a renewed

173
00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,240
Speaker 1: investigation about the disappearance of his first wife. He remains

174
00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:37,200
Speaker 1: in jail without bail. The HBO showed that Jinks looked

175
00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:39,880
Speaker 1: into the disappearance of his wife Ann Berman's murder, and

176
00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,520
Speaker 1: Durst was caught saying that he had killed them all,

177
00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:46,440
Speaker 1: killed them all and maybe more. According to confidants of

178
00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:52,080
Speaker 1: real estate millionaire Robert Durrist, that's our friends at ABC

179
00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:58,920
Speaker 1: seven LA. How many people did Robert Durst murder? And why?

180
00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:01,880
Speaker 1: With me and All Star panel Wendy Patrick, Floyd Steiger,

181
00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,920
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, doctor Bethany Marshall, and Levi Page. Will

182
00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:09,960
Speaker 1: he ever be convicted? To Levi Page? Back to the

183
00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,880
Speaker 1: way that Susan Burman, who we were just listening to

184
00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,079
Speaker 1: about her childhood growing up in the casinos with her

185
00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:21,360
Speaker 1: dad in charge running multiple casinos, the life she led.

186
00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:26,600
Speaker 1: Then she collides with Robert Durst at Berkeley. He drops out,

187
00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:30,440
Speaker 1: she keeps going, gets her masters. Tell me, I know

188
00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,079
Speaker 1: you say she was a failed journalist. I don't necessarily

189
00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:36,200
Speaker 1: see her has failed at anything, but she and Durst

190
00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:40,160
Speaker 1: remained friends till the very end when she turns up dead.

191
00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:45,599
Speaker 1: Tell me about the scenario of Susan Burman's body being discovered.

192
00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:49,480
Speaker 1: So Nancy police got a note and it was to

193
00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:52,800
Speaker 1: the Beverly Hills Police Department and it said cadaver with

194
00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:55,920
Speaker 1: her address. They went to the home and they found

195
00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:58,000
Speaker 1: her dead. She had been shot in the back of

196
00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:02,280
Speaker 1: her head execution style, they believe around Christmas Eve in

197
00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:06,319
Speaker 1: the year two thousand. They discovered her body ten days

198
00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:08,280
Speaker 1: after she had been stright, so she had been laying

199
00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:12,120
Speaker 1: in her house dead for ten day. Wait a minute,

200
00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:15,800
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, Wait a minute. To Joseph Scott Morgan,

201
00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:19,640
Speaker 1: Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, an author Blood Beneath My

202
00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:23,520
Speaker 1: Feet on Amazon, I'll let that sink in from Blood

203
00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:28,320
Speaker 1: Beneath my Feet. Okay, how do they know, Joseph Scott Morgan,

204
00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:31,680
Speaker 1: that she had been lying there for ten days? My

205
00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,439
Speaker 1: suspicion is, Nancy, is that she had been probably in

206
00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,400
Speaker 1: a moderate state of decomposition by that point. Tom, and

207
00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,720
Speaker 1: we can in forensics, we can actually put parameters on

208
00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:44,920
Speaker 1: our markers on how long someone has been dead based

209
00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:49,920
Speaker 1: upon how advanced their changes after death are. So that

210
00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:52,520
Speaker 1: helps us to establish the timeline. And in a case

211
00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:56,559
Speaker 1: like this where essentially the police have no suspects, that

212
00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:59,680
Speaker 1: is essential because we can go back and marking time

213
00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:02,600
Speaker 1: when this possibly happened. You can't make it. You can't

214
00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:04,880
Speaker 1: make it an absolute, but at least it's a place

215
00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:08,160
Speaker 1: to start. Josiceky Morgan. Isn't it true that medical examiners

216
00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:12,160
Speaker 1: look not just at the body but extrinsic evidence in

217
00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:15,000
Speaker 1: order to make their decision. I'd like to imagine they

218
00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:18,960
Speaker 1: can look at a body and magically determine so many things,

219
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:23,199
Speaker 1: like the last moment they breathed air. But they also

220
00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:25,960
Speaker 1: look at, for instance, they're the last sighting of the person,

221
00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:29,120
Speaker 1: the last email, the last phone message, the last text,

222
00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:31,720
Speaker 1: they look at, the last time they ate. They track

223
00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:35,000
Speaker 1: the food through the body. That's why we have a

224
00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:39,680
Speaker 1: fleet of medical examiner investigators that go to the scene

225
00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:45,440
Speaker 1: and develop forensic evidence to determine a timeline. True or false? Yes,

226
00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:47,440
Speaker 1: that is true an answer. Now, I want you to

227
00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:52,520
Speaker 1: take a listen. This is called the bathroom audio. You know,

228
00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:55,440
Speaker 1: those of us in a broadcasting know that when you're

229
00:13:55,480 --> 00:14:00,400
Speaker 1: miked up somebody somewhere in some dark little control room

230
00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:03,200
Speaker 1: that you don't even know where it is. Here's everything

231
00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,080
Speaker 1: that you say. We see that come out over and

232
00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,400
Speaker 1: over in the media when somebody's busted saying something they

233
00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:12,640
Speaker 1: wish you didn't know about. That's what happened when Robert

234
00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:16,640
Speaker 1: Durst agreed to a sit down conversation with HBO when

235
00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:20,480
Speaker 1: they were filming The Jinks, The Life and Deaths of

236
00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:24,440
Speaker 1: Robert Durst. Now they were questioning him about Susan Burman

237
00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,520
Speaker 1: listened to what he was caught saying as he went

238
00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:48,440
Speaker 1: for a tete break question. I'm having difficulty with a question.

239
00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:53,520
Speaker 1: I killed him all of course. Wow. Cloyd Steiger joining

240
00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:56,880
Speaker 1: me twenty two years homicide detective author Seattle's Forgotten serial

241
00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:02,560
Speaker 1: killer Gary Jane Grant Cloyd what an idiot? Or is he?

242
00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:06,440
Speaker 1: You know? Some would argue he subconsciously wanted the world

243
00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:08,720
Speaker 1: to know. I don't buy into that. I think he

244
00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:11,040
Speaker 1: was just an inch it. Yeah, well, you know that's

245
00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:14,520
Speaker 1: what is gifts to people like me is people when

246
00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:20,600
Speaker 1: they they're very cocky and confident, and he's an entitled guy,

247
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,040
Speaker 1: and then he makes a stupid mistake like that and

248
00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:25,520
Speaker 1: basically makes an ad Michigan's interest that he killed them

249
00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:28,480
Speaker 1: all and says it out loud. I mean that that

250
00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,760
Speaker 1: gift wrapped to the detectives in the prosecutor too. Wendy Patcheck,

251
00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:36,840
Speaker 1: California Prosecutor author Red Flags Wendy Way. Yeah, you know

252
00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:39,200
Speaker 1: one of those things about one of the pesky things

253
00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:41,720
Speaker 1: about confessions. Did you have to prove that that's exactly

254
00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:43,920
Speaker 1: what it was and not somebody speaking off the cuff

255
00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:47,440
Speaker 1: while playing all of the excuses and defenses. Nancy, you

256
00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:49,920
Speaker 1: and I are well, wait, wait, role playing alone in

257
00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,120
Speaker 1: the bathroom while you're in zipping your pants and teaching

258
00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:55,280
Speaker 1: I hope what I have tried so many cases, Nancy,

259
00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:57,920
Speaker 1: I have heard it all, and even scarier than that,

260
00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:00,800
Speaker 1: I have heard juror say, how can you believe that

261
00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:04,000
Speaker 1: something somebody says in private is a confession? Why would

262
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,280
Speaker 1: they make a confession to themselves? These are the kinds

263
00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:09,600
Speaker 1: of defenses I would already anticipate as a prosecutor. But

264
00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:11,280
Speaker 1: I'll tell you a pliny at the side of the coin.

265
00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:15,560
Speaker 1: I think it's powerful evidence of really kind of rethinking,

266
00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:18,960
Speaker 1: rehashing was this guy doing giving this interview to begin with,

267
00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:22,720
Speaker 1: and then following it up with almost talking to yourself

268
00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,600
Speaker 1: about what just happened. So now we've got the corpus

269
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,200
Speaker 1: plus a confession. Now we've got a case. So it's

270
00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:30,920
Speaker 1: highly significant. I just want to point out that sadly

271
00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:33,280
Speaker 1: there are two sides to every story as far as

272
00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:35,360
Speaker 1: what a jury's going to hear. And you're so right

273
00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:38,080
Speaker 1: about that. To doctor Bethany Marshall's psychoanalyst, I don't know

274
00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:43,280
Speaker 1: how you're gonna twist this around in your psychoanalyst way. Okay,

275
00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:46,680
Speaker 1: hit me. What do you make of what Robert Durst said,

276
00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:50,040
Speaker 1: still miked up, gone on a bathroom break from the

277
00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:55,520
Speaker 1: HBO series The Jenks, stating quote, what the hell did

278
00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:57,840
Speaker 1: I do? What the hell did I do? Kill them all?

279
00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:01,120
Speaker 1: Of course, he mumbles to himself, unaware he's actually being

280
00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:06,240
Speaker 1: recorded still while he's in the bathroom, while the toilet's flushing, right, So, yeah,

281
00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:09,080
Speaker 1: that was the problem. Now, that's the problem. Didn't flush

282
00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:12,760
Speaker 1: loud enough, loudly enough, you know, Nancy. One of the

283
00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:15,879
Speaker 1: things we see with sociopaths paths that they have a

284
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,920
Speaker 1: very shallow emotional life, and that's why they do so

285
00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:24,480
Speaker 1: many weird, cookie thrill seeking kinds of things, like him

286
00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:28,720
Speaker 1: dressing up like a deaf, mute old lady, you know,

287
00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:32,280
Speaker 1: strange things that you know, I think are adding from

288
00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:35,920
Speaker 1: color to his day because he doesn't have much else

289
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,880
Speaker 1: to do with himself. So the fact that he went

290
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,480
Speaker 1: on the jinks and he gave these interviews. Is a

291
00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:46,480
Speaker 1: testimony to his shallow emotional life, meaning that he didn't

292
00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:49,000
Speaker 1: have much else going on. He didn't think anything bad

293
00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:51,640
Speaker 1: would come of it. And that's the grandiosity too, right.

294
00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:54,040
Speaker 1: When you're grandiose, when you sit at the right hand

295
00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:56,200
Speaker 1: of God, you never think you're going to get in trouble.

296
00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:59,560
Speaker 1: You Oh whoa wait, wait, wait, hold on, Mascy, please

297
00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,800
Speaker 1: don't I got into this. That's the last thing I need.

298
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:06,400
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure he's already mad at me. I don't

299
00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,320
Speaker 1: know that for sure, but please don't drag him. I

300
00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:11,760
Speaker 1: put him in the same sentence as Robert Durst. Okay,

301
00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,920
Speaker 1: pick it up well. And then the thing with sociopaths

302
00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:18,600
Speaker 1: because they lack of conscience, and we see our fMRI

303
00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:21,879
Speaker 1: brain imaging that the part of the brain that's responsible

304
00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,680
Speaker 1: for empathy is very atro feeds, so they don't really

305
00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:28,000
Speaker 1: have a sense of what other people are going to

306
00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:31,080
Speaker 1: think and feel about them. That's why they kill so casually.

307
00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:33,720
Speaker 1: They have no remorse, They have no empathy. But that

308
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,679
Speaker 1: same quality leads them to have lack of big pictures thinking,

309
00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,320
Speaker 1: lack of cause and effects thinking. They think that they

310
00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,240
Speaker 1: will never get into trouble for their actions. So so

311
00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:47,359
Speaker 1: if any I'm gonna say, if any normal person killed people,

312
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,800
Speaker 1: but that an oxy more on anybody who gets in trouble.

313
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,000
Speaker 1: If I get in trouble, if I'm speeding, I'm afraid

314
00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:57,680
Speaker 1: the police officer will pull me, pull me, will track

315
00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:00,359
Speaker 1: me down. But a sociopath is not goun to be

316
00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,479
Speaker 1: afraid that anybody's could think anything about their actions. So

317
00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:19,480
Speaker 1: that's why he said that. In the Bathroom Crime Stories

318
00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:28,239
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, he said, I guess to you, you

319
00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:30,560
Speaker 1: know that I think of myself as someone who was

320
00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,760
Speaker 1: born with a burden that I couldn't care well. I

321
00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,679
Speaker 1: said to him, you know, some people say that you

322
00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:39,240
Speaker 1: are the unluckiest guy in the world because you lost

323
00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,840
Speaker 1: your beloved wife, you lost your best friend in Los Angeles,

324
00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:45,840
Speaker 1: and you lost your neighbor who is your good friend.

325
00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,960
Speaker 1: You're elderly across the hall neighbor in Galveston, Texas. And

326
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:50,640
Speaker 1: other people say you're the luckiest guy in the world

327
00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:52,480
Speaker 1: because you killed your wife, you killed your best friend,

328
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:54,240
Speaker 1: you killed your neighbor, and you got away with it. Wow,

329
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:59,880
Speaker 1: you're hearing Filmmaker Andrew Jarecki. HBO's the Jinks telling dir

330
00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:03,439
Speaker 1: everything he's managed to get away with. But is his

331
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:08,080
Speaker 1: day of reckoning? Finally, here the multimillion dollar real estate

332
00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:11,120
Speaker 1: air on trial in LA for the two thousand murder

333
00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:15,240
Speaker 1: of his closest friend, Susan Burman. Back to the facts,

334
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:19,160
Speaker 1: Levipage Crime online dot Com investigative reporter tell me why

335
00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:24,600
Speaker 1: we think Burman was murdered by Robert Durst. Okay, so, Nancy,

336
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,840
Speaker 1: the police, ten days after they believe she was killed,

337
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:31,480
Speaker 1: got a letter in the mill and it was addressed

338
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,919
Speaker 1: with the Beverly Hills Police Department. And what is so weird?

339
00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:38,520
Speaker 1: And it's a cadaver and it had Susan Burman's address,

340
00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:41,879
Speaker 1: And what is so weird is that Beverly Hills was

341
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:46,399
Speaker 1: spelled incorrectly. It was spelled b e v E r

342
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:50,520
Speaker 1: l e y Hills with an extra E after the L.

343
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,359
Speaker 1: And they found letters that Robert Durst had wrote in

344
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:56,560
Speaker 1: the past to Susan Burman, and he had spelled it

345
00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:01,400
Speaker 1: wrong in that same way. Furthermore, they had also looked

346
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,919
Speaker 1: at his handwriting, and he does not use lowercase letters

347
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:08,119
Speaker 1: when he writes. Everything is an all cap. Both of

348
00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:12,120
Speaker 1: those letters were written in all caps. Wow, you know what.

349
00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:15,040
Speaker 1: I've done a lot of handwriting analysis. My first was

350
00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:19,040
Speaker 1: on a bank robber who was dyslexic, and he wrote,

351
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:24,399
Speaker 1: don't touch the al ram. This is a Roby al ram.

352
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:28,760
Speaker 1: He reversed RNA, he messed up Roby and throughout his

353
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:35,720
Speaker 1: handwriting example exemplar, he obviously had heard of punctuation, he

354
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,000
Speaker 1: knew it existed, but that was pretty much it. He

355
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:42,520
Speaker 1: would say, don't comma touch period the comma Roby comma,

356
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:49,000
Speaker 1: this period is a Comma Roby period comma. When he

357
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,520
Speaker 1: did his handwriting exemplar, that was the bank robbery note.

358
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:53,400
Speaker 1: When he did the exemplar, he did the same thing.

359
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,720
Speaker 1: He put in commas and periods all throughout everything he wrote.

360
00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:01,200
Speaker 1: It was incredible. So here, Joe Scot Morgan and forensics expert,

361
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:06,159
Speaker 1: we see not only the same handwriting itself, but we

362
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:10,960
Speaker 1: see the same mode of all caps and misspellings. It's

363
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:15,240
Speaker 1: like a dental X ray. You see all the same cavities. Yeah.

364
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 1: And what's fascinating about handwriting analysis question documents is that

365
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,640
Speaker 1: when it's generated from one particular or specific person's hand,

366
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:27,359
Speaker 1: it's really hard for these individuals to go against the

367
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,560
Speaker 1: tide of what you've learned since you were very very

368
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:34,119
Speaker 1: little and you first began to structure letters and write

369
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:37,200
Speaker 1: sentences and all of these things, that gets ingrained. So

370
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:40,679
Speaker 1: this idea that he's writing in all caps, that's a

371
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:44,200
Speaker 1: learned behavior that he's misspelling. I think one of the

372
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 1: questions I would have this guy is obviously at least

373
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 1: somewhat bright. I mean, he studied economics at Berkeley. I

374
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:55,960
Speaker 1: have to think at some point in time he understood

375
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 1: how to structure the English language. Is he doing this

376
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:02,960
Speaker 1: on purpose? Would he misspell intentionally? I don't know. Maybe

377
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 1: it you know, maybe it goes to this grand world

378
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 1: he's created. But it's easy to tie this back to him,

379
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,359
Speaker 1: that he generated this letter. It all depends on what

380
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 1: prosecutors can do with it. LEVI page tell me about

381
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,720
Speaker 1: her actual murder, the layout of her home, the time

382
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,200
Speaker 1: of death, what more do we know? Well, Nancy, here's

383
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,200
Speaker 1: the reason why police believe that she was gunned down

384
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:27,400
Speaker 1: execution style Christmas Eve and was in the home ten

385
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:29,920
Speaker 1: days before they discovered her. They had a they interviewed

386
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 1: a friend, and that night that was the last time

387
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 1: she was seen. She went to the movies with this friend,

388
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 1: and they believed. Police believe that she was murdered by

389
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 1: someone that she knew, that she opened the door, and

390
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,120
Speaker 1: that she turned around. She was comfortable enough with this

391
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,919
Speaker 1: person that she turned around and they shot her in

392
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,360
Speaker 1: the back of the head. Robert Durst one final right

393
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 1: now for the murder office so called best friends Susan Breman.

394
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 1: Durst has always been suspected into other crimes, the disappearance

395
00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 1: of first wife Kathleen, and the murder and dismemberment of

396
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 1: Morris Black, his elderly neighbor. He was acquitted of that

397
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 1: murder in two thousand and three by Nutcake jury. Here

398
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:12,920
Speaker 1: we have him on tape stating what the hell did

399
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 1: I do? Kill them? All? Of course, seems like a

400
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 1: lot of people are afraid to come forward. Take a

401
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 1: listen to a witness, a secret witness whose tales eron

402
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,879
Speaker 1: Mortiarty at forty eight hours. They're afraid this individual was

403
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,440
Speaker 1: listit as a secret witness. In fact, he came to

404
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 1: a back door in the courtroom and he was accompanied

405
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 1: by protection guards because he's afraid that because Durst still

406
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 1: has one hundred million dollars, that he could be killed

407
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 1: if he comes. This is a long time friend of

408
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 1: Robert Durst. He worked and his wife still works for

409
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,159
Speaker 1: the realty company here in New York. Real estate company

410
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,400
Speaker 1: in New York. And he says there'll be a lot

411
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:55,639
Speaker 1: of questions raised about this, but he says that Susan

412
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:59,120
Speaker 1: Burman number one told him that killed his first wife.

413
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,680
Speaker 1: Cathy said that. And he even says at a dinner

414
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,399
Speaker 1: Durst said to him and in reference to Susan Berman,

415
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,880
Speaker 1: the victim in this case, that it was either her

416
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 1: or me, insinuating that he may have killed did kill

417
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,640
Speaker 1: Susan Burman. Wow. In addition to the murder charge, Dersch

418
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 1: is also facing felony firearms and drug charges because when

419
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 1: he was arrested, he had a Smith and Wesson thirty

420
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 1: eight revolver with marijuana, forty two thousand dollars in cash,

421
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:32,880
Speaker 1: a latex mask, a fake ID passport, and maps of Cuba.

422
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,640
Speaker 1: He was expecting a package with one hundred and seventeen

423
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 1: thousand dollars in cash and other personal items. You know,

424
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 1: that sounds like a to do list for a killer.

425
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: To Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, author of Red Flags, I

426
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 1: mean Wendy do you have a latex mask stuffed in

427
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:52,640
Speaker 1: your back pocket? You know, Dancy, that is like a

428
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:57,159
Speaker 1: swag bag of criminal liability. I can't believe all those items.

429
00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure maybe one of each might be

430
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,640
Speaker 1: some innocent explanation. But to have all those together under

431
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,119
Speaker 1: the rest of the circumstances, you know, that says we

432
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 1: all know what putting two cases together is about. It's

433
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 1: every piece of circumstantial evidence could be explained away by

434
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,440
Speaker 1: a crafty defense attorney. But when you have this many

435
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,640
Speaker 1: points that are together, we begin to connect the dots. So, yes,

436
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 1: what he had in his possession really lends some credibility

437
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:24,679
Speaker 1: to this idea, not only that he's guilty, but that

438
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,640
Speaker 1: he also had other plans, maybe to escape, to flee

439
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 1: the country. It's all so interesting, and it's also going

440
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 1: to be interesting to that jury eventually. I mean, really

441
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 1: think about it, Cloyd Steiger, all that cash and a

442
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,080
Speaker 1: map of Cuba and a fake ID, could he have

443
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 1: planeted any more things that make himself look more guilty?

444
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 1: Between all this and that, it sounds like Scott Peterson,

445
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,199
Speaker 1: Remember Scott Peterson with a fake ID and all the

446
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,719
Speaker 1: money and all the condoms. Yeah, yeah, and well this

447
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,199
Speaker 1: guy also felt so because he'd gotten away with it

448
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 1: so many times. That's why he feels emboldened to do

449
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 1: this type of stuff because he keeps getting away with it.

450
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 1: And so it's just, you know, he gets more and

451
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 1: more the stupid stuff like that. We just, like I said,

452
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:05,680
Speaker 1: it's a gift. What about it to you? Jesse's got

453
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 1: more again. I think that he showed up and he's

454
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,440
Speaker 1: well planned. This is commonly what's referred to as a

455
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 1: kill kid if you look at it from an investigative standpoint,

456
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 1: he has the means at his hand to facilitate something

457
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 1: like this. And going back to what we said earlier,

458
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 1: the fact that he got into this house or someone

459
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 1: got into this house with no struggle whatsoever. This young

460
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 1: lady was taken unawares. And you know, this actually happened

461
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 1: in Benedet Canyon and it's associated with a couple of

462
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:40,479
Speaker 1: other horrible things to take Lobbianca murders for instance. This

463
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 1: is an isolated, exclusive area. You don't have homicides that

464
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 1: take place in this area, and such a violent crime.

465
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 1: Someone was prepared that showed up. They had knowledge of

466
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 1: this individual and she was taken unawares shot in the

467
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,239
Speaker 1: back of the head. It's actually, you know, when I

468
00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:59,400
Speaker 1: look at this, you have to think about who has

469
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 1: access to this woman, who has the ability to pull

470
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:20,959
Speaker 1: us off time stories. With Nancy Grace, she became more independent.

471
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:25,640
Speaker 1: Wasn't the fairy tale anymore? No? In fact, Cathy's brother

472
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 1: Jim told us, it was more like a horror movie.

473
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 1: There's a dark side of Bob that you know, was

474
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 1: fairly well camouflaged when they were first going out and

475
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 1: get married, but escalated ultimately into psychological abuse, economic abuse,

476
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 1: and physical abuse. Kathy warned all of us that if

477
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 1: anything ever happened, looked to Bob, Bob did it, don't

478
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 1: let him get away with it. Then, in nineteen eighty two,

479
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: Kathy Durst disappeared. How did he take it? You know?

480
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 1: He asked if we had seen her, if we heard anything,

481
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 1: if we knew anything. But they didn't. No one did.

482
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 1: Bob was typically almost detached in his demeanor. You almost

483
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 1: I don't know nothing, I don't know anything. That's from

484
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: CBS forty eight Hours, Robert Durst The Lost Years. A

485
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: dark side escalated to psychological abuse and physical abuse. Cathy

486
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: told friends, if anything ever happened to her quote, don't

487
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 1: let Bob get away with it. Well, that is quite

488
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 1: the irony, quite the coincidence, because we know, years before

489
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 1: her murder, Susan Burman, his best friend, warned another friend

490
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 1: that if anything ever happened to her, her friend, real

491
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 1: estate tycoon Robert Durst, did it. The bombshell allegation was

492
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 1: made by Burman's very dear friend, Miriam Barnes, who testified

493
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 1: during a pre trial hearing in LA The judge allowed

494
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 1: some witnesses to testify early in the event they die

495
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 1: before the trial is over. Hey, that's not a good outlook.

496
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 1: You know, you're got Robert Durst on trial from murder,

497
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 1: and they're afraid the witnesses are going to kill over

498
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 1: called on just a moment, jos Goot Morgan once in, Joscott,

499
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: what do you make of the evidence in the Susan

500
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 1: Burman murder. I think that it's it's significant, Nancy, in

501
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:16,959
Speaker 1: the sense that these are all specific tiebacks. Potentially too Durst.

502
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: I go back to this idea of and this is circumstantial,

503
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: but who would have access to her, who would know

504
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 1: her schedule? So this ties back to the evidence. The

505
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 1: physical evidence that we have, most notably the weapon that

506
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 1: was utilized, and also the attitude or the physical attitude,

507
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 1: the relationship between these two when she was shot. So

508
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: this is powerful stuff when you combine all of us.

509
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: What do you think is a single most powerful evidence

510
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 1: against him? I think that probably from a circumstantial standpoint,

511
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 1: the relationship he had with her tying this back, she

512
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: had information, at least some people believe she had information

513
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 1: relative to what happened at Durst White, which you know,

514
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 1: to this day is really a big history. You know,

515
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: there's no way to tell. And he had to, you know,

516
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 1: kind of get rid of anybody that might have firsthand

517
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 1: knowledge something that he had relaid back to them and

518
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 1: as as tight as they were, I mean this this

519
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 1: woman was literally his best friend, Nancy, And that's chilling

520
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 1: in and of itself that he would go to these

521
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: links who had the motive and the means to rub

522
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 1: this lady out? And why why? I mean she's she's

523
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 1: kind of a passive character. You know, every photo I've

524
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 1: ever seen to Miss Burman, she's got a smile on

525
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 1: her face. She looks like a very nice lady. People

526
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 1: describe her as being bubbly, but You look at this

527
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 1: and you think that, just like a lightning bolt out

528
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 1: of the blue, this woman is literally executed in her

529
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 1: own home in this very exclusive area in Los Angeles.

530
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,959
Speaker 1: It all signs point back to one location, and you

531
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 1: know that's mister Durst. Well. Also, is it true LEVI

532
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 1: page that Durst admits, through his lawyer, admits he wrote

533
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 1: the cadaver let tipping off cops to the location a

534
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 1: Susan Burman's body. Yes, in port filings, his legal team

535
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 1: has said that he is the person that wrote the letter.

536
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: The question is, how would he know that she died

537
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 1: unless he was at the home and saw the dead body,

538
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 1: or unless he killed her man. I'm looking at it

539
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 1: right now. The famous note misspells Beverly Hills as Beverly L.

540
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 1: E Y, just as Durst had in a ninety nine

541
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: letter with matching block lettering, and it is uncovered in

542
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 1: the documentary the Jenks. I don't know why the cops

543
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 1: didn't find this, but that's neither here nor there. When

544
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 1: you look at this, it's it's identical. Even a lay person,

545
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 1: not anyone who is an expert in handwriting analysis can

546
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 1: see it. You can see it at Crime online dot

547
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: com take a listen to this, oh and told Durst

548
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 1: he was here to talk about one particular murder, Susan Burman's.

549
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 1: I know that she was somebody that was important to

550
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: you and that you cared about. Best friend, best friend,

551
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 1: and Lewin thought one death. Durst truly mourned when you

552
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 1: killed Susan. That was not something you wanted to do.

553
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 1: I'm gonna stay away from killing Susan. You know that

554
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 1: the killer left a note right the cadaveroe, Why would

555
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 1: you think the killer would have left a note. I'm

556
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 1: going to stay away from there. Let me go another way.

557
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: Whoever wrote the note was a part of killing her? Yes?

558
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 1: You agree? Right? Yes, no question right. Whoever wrote that

559
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 1: note had to be involved in Susan's death. Okay, that's

560
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 1: our friends at Dayline NBC. That was Keith Morrison. So

561
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 1: his own lawyers have admitted. I mean, there's really no

562
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 1: way you can deny when you look at the comparison

563
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 1: to Kloyd Steiger, twenty two years homicide detective and author,

564
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 1: and then if you match that up with what he

565
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 1: says in the HBO documentary that whoever wrote the cadaver

566
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: note tipping cops off that Susan Burman's dead body was

567
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:12,000
Speaker 1: in her home had to have something to do with

568
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,879
Speaker 1: her death. I mean, there's your conviction right now. I mean,

569
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,799
Speaker 1: this is for the prosecution to lose. It's happening right now. Yeah,

570
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: that's that's another gift hand delivered. And you know the

571
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,399
Speaker 1: fact that he admitted through his attorney's writing this note

572
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:27,800
Speaker 1: reminds me of him admitting he cut up the body

573
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 1: of the Kabak and Texas and still got away with it.

574
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 1: So he just feels emboldened that way too. And that

575
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,239
Speaker 1: the fact that he just said actively he has no

576
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 1: question now that he wrote the note. Whoever wrote this

577
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 1: note did has something to do with Susan's death. Of

578
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 1: course they did. And I think the reason he wrote

579
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,399
Speaker 1: the note is it's kind of is because she hadn't

580
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,760
Speaker 1: been founded. He knew that he'd probably been checking the news,

581
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,720
Speaker 1: and he really didn't want his friend to later and rot. Maybe,

582
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 1: so that's why he decided to send that note. That's

583
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:56,799
Speaker 1: just what I think. He's a bizarre guy. He kind

584
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: of reminds me of the guy from the DuPont Family

585
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 1: year that got involved that wrestling team and end up

586
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:05,799
Speaker 1: killing a guy just an entitled, rich guy with so

587
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 1: much money didn't know what to do. But I think

588
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 1: it's all catching up to him this time. Patrick. Part

589
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:13,280
Speaker 1: of the problem with cases like us is what defense

590
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 1: attorneys have to do is clean up the statements their

591
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 1: clients already made. And when you're doing that, in this case,

592
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,360
Speaker 1: trying to spin the statements that Robert Durst already made

593
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:23,840
Speaker 1: for whatever reason decided to talk to HBO, deciding to

594
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 1: sit down and engage in these interviews, you're going to

595
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 1: have these subjects to interpretations. You're right that this prosecutions

596
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 1: to lose, but it's also true, as all of us know,

597
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 1: we have seen cases go sideways when there is some

598
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 1: other plausible explanation. What fuels that defense theory is the

599
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 1: fact that these women seem so wholesome and so likable,

600
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 1: as we've already heard Joseph Scott Morgan point out, and

601
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 1: yet they were with this man. How bad could he

602
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 1: have been? That's going to be part of the defense.

603
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 1: What Nancy, you and I would say, having done this

604
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 1: job as long as we have, is even well educated,

605
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:01,200
Speaker 1: nice people can be fooled. To Bethany Marshall, you hear

606
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,760
Speaker 1: him say, I want to stay away from the Susan

607
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 1: Burman cadaver letter. He won't answer anything about it. You know,

608
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,399
Speaker 1: if my friend had been killed, I would be doing

609
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:12,319
Speaker 1: anything I could think of to try to find the

610
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:17,879
Speaker 1: killer instead of quote staying away from discussing the cadaver letter,

611
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 1: telling Couts where the body was and that she was

612
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 1: sitting there decomposing. And also his emboldened attitude wait end

613
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,399
Speaker 1: doctor Bethany, Well, Nancy, this guy has way too much

614
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,279
Speaker 1: money and way too much time of hand, and an

615
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 1: enormous amount of energy combined with a homicidal instinct. And

616
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 1: I keep trying to think, how did these killings unfold

617
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 1: in the context each of these interpersonal relationships. First of all,

618
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 1: his wife who goes missing, the elderly neighbor who's dismembered

619
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 1: and the head ends up in the bay, and then

620
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 1: Susan Burman, who shot in the back of the head.

621
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 1: What transpired in these relationships? And it seems to me

622
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 1: that he must have exerted an enormous amount of influence

623
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,799
Speaker 1: and control over these people. He must have had homicidal

624
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 1: intent for months or years prior to killing them. I

625
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 1: can't believe that he just made friends with a neighbor

626
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,400
Speaker 1: across the hall, because you know, he wanted to go

627
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 1: have tea with him. I think somehow he selected these

628
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:19,399
Speaker 1: victims and then the homicidal urge waxed and waned, and

629
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,840
Speaker 1: then with the control slipped over each of these people,

630
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,840
Speaker 1: then he moved in for the kill. I mean, obviously,

631
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 1: with Susan Burman, he has some motivation because he may

632
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 1: have talked to her at great length about his other crimes.

633
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 1: So that's a very simple motivation that we all understand.

634
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 1: But I think there's more complex underlying psychological motivations like

635
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 1: the wish to kill that just exists just in and

636
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 1: of itself. Being kind of a blabber mouth like he

637
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: is on all of these interviews, he probably blabbed and

638
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 1: blabbed to Susan Burman, glorifying his crimes and reliving the

639
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 1: satisfaction of them. He probably couldn't help but talk to

640
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,799
Speaker 1: Susan Burman about these crimes. So we think of all

641
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 1: these people coming to trial and they're afraid, they're afraid

642
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 1: for their lives. The judge is afraid somebody's been to

643
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 1: kill over the fact that he may have blabbed and

644
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 1: confessed to many people there are many people out there

645
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 1: who's saying, thank God for the grace of God. Go

646
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 1: I you know, I think I'm glad he didn't kill me.

647
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 1: And they may know a lot, but they may be

648
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 1: afraid because this man is worth one hundred million dollars.

649
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,959
Speaker 1: He comes from a great family, financial empire, and they're

650
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 1: nancy if they're afraid, because not only did he kill

651
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 1: three people, but there are other people out there who

652
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 1: know his secrets and know he has this enormous amount

653
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 1: of energy that he could probably even exert behind bars.

654
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 1: It's been so many years since Sazan Barman's murder to

655
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, how likely do you think it is he

656
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 1: will be convicted. He's skated away from Morris Black's murder

657
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:51,360
Speaker 1: and Kathy Durst. Yeah, that is really significant because you

658
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 1: have a guy that has gotten away with a lot

659
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 1: over the years. At least that's the prosecution theory. And

660
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,440
Speaker 1: why now would you decide to sit down and say

661
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 1: what he did. One of the rationalites could have been

662
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:03,360
Speaker 1: he thought he got away with it and it was

663
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 1: okay now, perhaps to regain the spotlight through talking about

664
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 1: something that would never then come up again. That was

665
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 1: a big mistake, I know and answer. You pointed this

666
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 1: out before that that might be one of the reasons

667
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,319
Speaker 1: behind the sudden motivation not only to speak, but to

668
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:21,439
Speaker 1: answer those very dangerous questions that his defense attorneys now

669
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 1: are going to have to explain. And another issue to

670
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 1: Chloyd Steiger, is this the only chance we're going to

671
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 1: ever have for justice, I mean indirectly for the disappearance

672
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 1: and death of Durt's first wife. Oh, I think so,

673
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 1: because I don't think that. Well, you don't have a body.

674
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:39,319
Speaker 1: You have circumstantial evidence, but not enough to charge your

675
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 1: convictim of that crime. So this is your only shot

676
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 1: for her. Otherwise, you know, there's not going to be

677
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:46,840
Speaker 1: any justice in that case. Even if they find the

678
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:50,240
Speaker 1: body now it'll be scaled, there won't be any physical evidence,

679
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 1: so it would be very, very difficult. We wait as

680
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 1: justice unfolds in a California courtroom in the murder of

681
00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 1: Susan Burman, Nancy grace Kind's story signing off Goodbye Friend,