1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, we're coming to the Pacific Northwest. So if 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: you live in that area or can get on a 3 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: plane to go to that area, or a boat or 4 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:11,320 Speaker 1: snowshoe whatever, we'll see you at the end of January. 5 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 2: That's right, brand new show, brand new topic. We don't 6 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 2: even know what it is yet, but we'll be in Seattle, 7 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 2: Washington on January twenty fourth, Portland on January twenty fifth, 8 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:24,440 Speaker 2: and then our annual trip to San Francisco's Sketch Fest 9 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 2: on January twenty sixth in Seattle. 10 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 3: We're counting on you. 11 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 2: We're at the Paramount this year and that's a lot 12 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 2: of seats, so we need a lot of your lovely 13 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 2: faces in the audience. 14 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:35,880 Speaker 1: Yes, so get thee too, stuff youshould know dot com 15 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 1: and click on the tour button to get all your facts, 16 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: or you can go to link tree slash sysk and 17 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 1: get the same links and the same facts and we'll 18 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: see you guys in January. We can't wait. 19 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 20 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. Josh, and there's Chuck 21 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:05,039 Speaker 1: and Jerry's here too, And this is Stuff you should Know. 22 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:06,479 Speaker 1: Solemn edition. 23 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, pretty solemn. 24 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:14,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a solemn occasion to this episode is coming 25 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: out on the anniversary of John Lennon's death, and not coincidentally, 26 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:22,039 Speaker 1: because we're actually doing an episode on the death of 27 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: John Lennon, so it's appropriate. 28 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 2: It's actually the day before his death. If we're being 29 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 2: nippicking close enough. 30 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:30,680 Speaker 1: I was very close to Chuck. 31 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm not one to commemorate death dates, especially 32 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 2: murder dates. But I did want to do this episode, 33 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 2: and since I saw it alined, I thought, you know, 34 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 2: if we can get this out quicker than maybe it's timely. 35 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 3: I don't know. 36 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, had you decided you wanted to do this before 37 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: we did JD. Salinger or did it all just kind 38 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: of work out like that. 39 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 2: I think it just worked out like that, Like the 40 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 2: two were completely unrelated in my mind, such that when 41 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 2: you suggested we put them both out on the same week, 42 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 2: I was like, why. 43 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 1: Oh, they're related. The two are related for sure. 44 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, so let's. 45 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: Talk about this. I knew about the death of John 46 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: Lennon some, but certainly not to the degree I do now. 47 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: I like, for example, I knew he was forty, I 48 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 1: knew he was shot I knew he died in front 49 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:29,639 Speaker 1: of his apartment building the Dakota, which we've talked about before. 50 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 1: I knew a few other things, but certainly not the details. 51 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:35,119 Speaker 1: And I didn't know much about the guy who killed 52 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 1: them that either. 53 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 3: Yeah. 54 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: Well, let's tell everybody what we've learned. Huh. 55 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:43,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember this happening, believe it or not. Wow, 56 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 2: because I was, But I guess. And I would have been. 57 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 3: Nine. When's my birthday? March? 58 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: Yes, so yeah, you would have been nine. 59 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I would have been nine years old. And I 60 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 2: remember just like you know, I didn't. I grew up 61 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 2: in a house that didn't have a lot of music 62 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 2: in it except for my room and my brother's room, 63 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 2: So it wasn't like the Beatles were a household name 64 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 2: or anything like most kids of my age who had 65 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 2: parents who may or may not have been into the Beatles. 66 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 2: My parents didn't tell me anything about the Beatles, right, 67 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 2: But I knew they were a thing, and I knew 68 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 2: like John Lennon is the guy with the round glasses 69 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 2: because I was just a kid, and I remember it 70 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 2: being like a big news and I was like, oh, 71 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 2: that that singer guy, that one of those round Glasses 72 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 2: was killed. 73 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 3: That's sad. 74 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:33,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was really big news, as we'll see. I mean, 75 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: it's still big news today, but at the time it 76 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: was just earth shattering for sure. 77 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 2: Thanks to Olivia for the help with this one. And 78 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 2: I guess we should start with talking a little bit 79 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 2: about John Lennon and his love affair with New York City. 80 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not sure when he moved to New York City. 81 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: I just know that they moved to the Dakota he 82 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 1: and Yoko in nineteen seventy three. When did they move 83 00:03:58,200 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: to New. 84 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 2: York, you know, I don't know if the Bank Street 85 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 2: apartment was the first one, but they moved to Bank 86 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 2: Street in seventy one, so that may have been their 87 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 2: first New York place. I know they lived a sort 88 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 2: of partially lived in one of the hotels there for 89 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 2: a while, but they lived at this very nondescript house 90 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 2: at one oh five Bank Street in the West Village 91 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 2: and for a couple of years. But one of the 92 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 2: reasons they moved is because they were robbed in the 93 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:32,479 Speaker 2: apartment and people busted in former tenants apparently and stole 94 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 2: some artwork and the TV and Lennon's wallet and his 95 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:39,919 Speaker 2: address book and supposedly he put the word out on 96 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:43,839 Speaker 2: the street that Bobby Seal's people are going to exact 97 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 2: revenge if I don't get that address book back. 98 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:48,479 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, like the Black Panthers. 99 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 3: Yeah. I don't know if he had a legit connection. 100 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 2: I mean, he seems like the kind of guy that 101 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:55,919 Speaker 2: would have known the Black Panthers and Bobby Seal. But 102 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 2: it was enough to where that address book was in 103 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:01,720 Speaker 2: fact returned, and I guess that was enough to where 104 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 2: they were like, hey, Yoko, I'm one of the most 105 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 2: famous people in the world. Maybe we should move to 106 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:08,919 Speaker 2: a building that's a little more secure. 107 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 1: I mean, that's why they moved to the Dakota Is 108 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: that had a security guard, that had a doorman. There 109 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 1: was a driveway that was gated, so you could drive 110 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 1: in through the gate and they'd close the gate behind you, 111 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: and then you got out of your car in the 112 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: courtyard so you didn't have to get out on the street. 113 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: It was much much safer. But saying that, I've read 114 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 1: interviews with John Lennon where he talks about his life 115 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: in Manhattan, and like he would walk around Central Park, 116 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: he would go get breakfast, like down the street, he 117 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: was just like living like a normal New Yorker. And 118 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 1: he said that people would like say hi or whatever, 119 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: but rarely would anybody ever bug him. So he was 120 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: living he was super super famous, but at the same 121 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,040 Speaker 1: time he was just living like a normal person by 122 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: this time. 123 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's one of the allures of New 124 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:57,799 Speaker 2: York is you can be one of the most famous 125 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:01,280 Speaker 2: people in the world and generally, like New Yorkers themselves 126 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 2: aren't the ones that are gonna bug you anyway. 127 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 3: It's any tourists probably. 128 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 1: You know. 129 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, But otherwise you can kind of live in New 130 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 2: York and walk around and just do your thing. And 131 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:13,840 Speaker 2: that's what they did when they bought five apartments at 132 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 2: the Dakota. They lived in a couple of them. They 133 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 2: had a studio one which was Yoko's work studio, and 134 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 2: they had a guest apartment, very nice thing to have, 135 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 2: and then a storage apartment. 136 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:32,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, and they also had Sean Lennon in nineteen seventy five, 137 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 1: and this whole era from about that time until his 138 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: death has a couple of different portrayals depending on who 139 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: you ask. Yeah, a lot of times is portrayed is 140 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:49,599 Speaker 1: John Lennon's house husband era. He reputedly would bake bread 141 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: and he would take Sean to go walk in Central 142 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:55,040 Speaker 1: Park and just being like a stay at home dad. 143 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 1: He turned his business affairs over to Yoko and just 144 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: basically was like, I'm just here to live. Yeah, And 145 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: another set of reporting, including from people who were like 146 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: there part of his life, like at least one personal 147 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: assistant who was there. Toward the end, he said, that's 148 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: kind of a charade, that he was actually really depressed. 149 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 1: He would lock himself in his room and just watch 150 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: TV for days on end. He was into the occult 151 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: may or may not have been doing drugs, but he 152 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: wasn't like baking bread and just been paying attention to Sean. 153 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: He was he was depressed. But even if that holds true, 154 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: by the time his death rolled around, he had turned 155 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: some sort of corner because he was on a schooner 156 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 1: somewhere on the way to Bermuda and ended up being 157 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: the only person on the ship that wasn't seasick and 158 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: was asked to like steer the boat through a storm, 159 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: and apparently going through that gauntlet made him like just 160 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: it just gave him some confidence or produce a spark 161 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 1: in him that had been missing. So even if the 162 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: people who said that his last years were pretty depressing, 163 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: the last year of his life was different than that. 164 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 1: It was renewed. 165 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it was probably a little bit of both. 166 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 2: John Lennon struggled his entire life with you know, with 167 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 2: just issues. He had issues from the moment he was 168 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 2: raised until the day he died, generally speaking in and 169 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 2: out of drugs, stuff like that. So it was probably both, 170 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 2: would be my guess as far as the work goes. 171 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 2: That fall of nineteen eighty is when the album Double 172 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:37,440 Speaker 2: Fantasy came out. Great record released on November seventeen, the 173 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 2: first one since Sean was born, and it was you know, 174 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:47,199 Speaker 2: things were looking I think more positive. You know, he 175 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:50,559 Speaker 2: regretted how he fathered Julian. I think he felt like 176 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,200 Speaker 2: he had a second chance here with Sean. He was 177 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 2: madly in love with Yoko Ono, just like partners and everything, 178 00:08:57,559 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 2: and things were looking pretty good. I think he had 179 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,440 Speaker 2: largely sort of let the Beatles thing. That was a 180 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 2: tough breakup, you know, so he had to get through. 181 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 1: That, Yeah, But it sounds like he kind of had 182 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:11,439 Speaker 1: by the time Double Fantasy came out because it was 183 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: a fairly upbeat album about like family life and stuff, right, Yeah, 184 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: a lot of it was Yeah, so that's John Lennon. 185 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: Kareening toreed him on a separate but soon to intersect path. 186 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: Was another person who was not in any way famous, 187 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: and depending on what interview you read of his, who 188 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 1: you talk to, what psychiatrist notes you read, was very 189 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:39,320 Speaker 1: disappointed that he was not famous or that he was 190 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: a nobody. His name was Mark David Chapman, and I 191 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 1: should say, right out of the gate truck, there's a 192 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: lot of people who are like, don't even mention that 193 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: guy's name. Yeah, because he said multiple times that the 194 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 1: reason that he killed John Lennon spoiler alert, Mark David 195 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 1: Chapman was the person who killed John Lennon to gain fame, 196 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 1: to like basically basque in the reflective glow that he 197 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 1: would gain from taking John Lennon's life. So people are like, 198 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:09,080 Speaker 1: don't give that guy any publicity. You can't talk about 199 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 1: the death of John Lennon unless you talk about Mark 200 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:16,439 Speaker 1: David Chapman. And from interviews that I've wrote with him, 201 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: there's a lot more to the story than him just 202 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 1: killing John Lennon because he wanted to be famous. 203 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, although I mean, like you said, he has literally 204 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 2: said I thought I could acquire his fame by killing him. 205 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:33,319 Speaker 2: So he was born in nineteen fifty five in Fort Worth, Texas, 206 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 2: to an Air Force father and a nurse mother, and 207 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 2: he grew up four miles from my house. Wowee, Yeah, 208 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 2: I had looked it up before years ago, and I 209 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 2: did it again today because I couldn't remember. He had 210 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:50,559 Speaker 2: a Decatur address, but it wasn't like a Decatur Decatur 211 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 2: like we think of it. He went to Columbia High School, 212 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 2: which was a rival high school to my high school 213 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 2: that I went to. Obviously older than me, but yeah, 214 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:03,440 Speaker 2: he grew up right down the road. And his dad 215 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 2: was a pretty tough guy. Apparently there were stories that 216 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 2: he told about physical abuse against his mother in which 217 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 2: he would step in to defend her. The mother did 218 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 2: say that there were there was some abuse, but she, 219 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 2: you know, I think, like a lot of women of 220 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 2: the time, down played that. But he didn't seem like 221 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 2: a very good guy, as evidenced by the fact that 222 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 2: at one point, as we'll see, Chapman thought about killing 223 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,719 Speaker 2: his father, like he wanted to kill somebody, right, And 224 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 2: we'll get into all that, But as a kid, there 225 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 2: were you know, he was sort of a go get 226 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 2: her in some ways. He started a newspaper for the neighborhood, 227 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 2: he was a coin collector. He was kind of a 228 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 2: normal kid in some ways. But then he also, you know, 229 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 2: Olivia found this one thing, and I've seen this elsewhere 230 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:52,080 Speaker 2: that he would create these fantasies about people who lived 231 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 2: in the walls and that he was their king. And 232 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 2: you know, initially, I'm like, that's that's kids stuff, Like 233 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 2: kids do all kinds of things like that. But the 234 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 2: more and more I read, it seemed like it was 235 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 2: it bordered on like like a godlike complex rather than 236 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 2: just sort of you know, make belief friends. 237 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, they considered him important, and they were the only 238 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 1: ones who considered him important supposedly. Yeah, but I think 239 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: like that's a good illustration that he was showing signs 240 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: that could be taken a mental illness, like as early 241 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 1: as childhood. Yeah, there's a lot of debate on the 242 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 1: internet whether he's mentally ill at all. It seems like 243 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 1: the growing consensus is, especially as we understand mental illness 244 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 1: more and more, that yeah, he's probably very mentally ill, 245 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:39,440 Speaker 1: which makes the fact that he's not being treated for 246 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:43,079 Speaker 1: mental illness in prison like that much worse, you know. Yeah, 247 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 1: of course, So he came of age in like the 248 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 1: sixties and really kind of bought into the whole hippie 249 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 1: thing for a little while. When he was in high school, 250 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 1: started doing drugs. I think he started huffing in Halen's 251 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:57,440 Speaker 1: which is that's what you do when you start trying 252 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 1: drugs in Georgia. And then he just moved on and 253 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:04,199 Speaker 1: eventually came to acid. I think he tried heroin a 254 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 1: few times. Like he definitely tried all the drugs. And 255 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 1: he also was into the Beatles. His favorite album was 256 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 1: Sergeant Pepper's. He also kind of got into conspiracy theories 257 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 1: in UFOs. Who's just kind of like into all the 258 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 1: stuff you get into when you start doing lots of drugs, right, 259 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 1: And then he had a turning point, Chuck, He like 260 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 1: completely didn't about face during high school. 261 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was only he only had did drugs for 262 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 2: a couple of years, and you know, from fourteen to 263 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 2: sixteen at Columbia High School he became a born again 264 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 2: Presbyterian Christian quit drugging and during his drug years, like, 265 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 2: you know, I saw those just weed and LSDVE, but 266 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 2: I guess some other things were sprinkled in there. But 267 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 2: he was actually ran away from home and was living 268 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 2: on the streets of Atlanta for a couple of weeks 269 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:56,560 Speaker 2: as like a fifteen year old. 270 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:56,959 Speaker 1: Wow. 271 00:13:57,600 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 2: But when he straightened himself out, he got a job 272 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 2: at the YMCA after he graduated and was a counselor. 273 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 2: He worked with Vietnamese refugees in Arkansas, and by all accounts, 274 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 2: was really good at it. He was popular with the kids, 275 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 2: he was popular with the campers. This is sort of 276 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 2: I guess where we can start talking about the Catcher 277 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 2: and the Rye. Yeah, because the one thing that he 278 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 2: sort of identified with was well Holden call Field as 279 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 2: a whole, but Holden call Field and his liking kids 280 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 2: more than he liked adults, and that was certainly seen 281 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 2: to be true with Chapman. 282 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, he definitely came to identify with Holden call Field 283 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: for sure. I read a people Like People magazine interview 284 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:46,160 Speaker 1: with him from nineteen eighty seven. It's really long piece 285 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: by a guy named James R. Gaines, and in it 286 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 1: you get the impression that Mark David Chapman during this 287 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 1: time is struggling with trying to be sane, trying to 288 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 1: be good, try not to be bad, trying not to 289 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 1: feel like he's going crazy. Yeah, and at one point 290 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: he finally got to the point where he's like he 291 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: was apparently tired of struggling. He started he basically turns 292 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 1: his back on God and started praying to Satan and 293 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 1: was just like, just turn me crazy. I'm basically I'm 294 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 1: sick of trying not to be crazy. From that point 295 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: on his words, yeah, Yeah, from that point on, he 296 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 1: just kept really going downhill from there essentially. 297 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that can be the case, as 298 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 2: you you know, depending on what sort of mental illness 299 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 2: you have, as you get up in your upper teenage years, 300 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 2: things can really sort of settle in. 301 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. 302 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 2: And I saw a lot of interviews. He talked a 303 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 2: lot about the two sides of himself. As we'll see later, 304 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 2: there were certain psychiatrists after, like during the trial, that 305 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 2: diagnosed him as having paranoid schizophrenia. He heard voices in 306 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 2: his head like things like that were starting to happen 307 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 2: with more regularity. So in nineteen seventy seven he kind 308 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 2: of dropped out and moved to Hawaii. I think thinking 309 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 2: it would be good for him. He did have a 310 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 2: suicide attempt there, but he also got treatment for depression 311 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 2: and started traveling and stuff. 312 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 1: Like that he did. This is really strange. He at 313 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: this time managed to travel the world. I could not 314 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 1: find how he paid for it, but I know that 315 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 1: he paid for a later trip by selling an original 316 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 1: Norman Rockwell that he had acquired. So this guy who 317 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: is like basically living on the beach in Waikiki with 318 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 1: no money, suddenly goes on a trip around the world 319 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 1: to Asia to the Middle East during this several month 320 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 1: period between oh, I think it's sometime in nineteen seventy eight. 321 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 1: It's a really bizarre little footnote that there's not a 322 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: lot of information on. But that's one thing he did. 323 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: And the reason that we bring this up is because 324 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 1: his travel agent, a woman named Gloria Abbe, ended up 325 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 1: marrying him and they're still married. 326 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, they were. I mean that may be one 327 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:13,919 Speaker 2: of the facts of the podcast. They were married for 328 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:18,239 Speaker 2: eighteen months before he murdered John Lennon, and she has 329 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 2: subsequently stayed married to him. And the interviews that I read, 330 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 2: she's like, you know, I took an oath of marriage 331 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 2: in front of God and everybody, and I'm gonna honor that. 332 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:35,160 Speaker 2: So that's basically the end of the story. I mean, 333 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:37,680 Speaker 2: there's really not more to it than that she has 334 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 2: stayed by his side. You know, does regular conjugal visits 335 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:45,160 Speaker 2: with him in prison, and they're you know, they're still 336 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:49,479 Speaker 2: going strong, I guess. But in Hawaii is when although 337 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 2: he was getting depression treatment, he really went downhill with 338 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:57,680 Speaker 2: his mental health there and that's where he started obsessing 339 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 2: about killing somebody famous in order to gain fame. And 340 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:05,640 Speaker 2: Lennon was on a list as well as Johnny Carson 341 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 2: and Elizabeth Taylor, Paul McCartney, George C. Scott, the governor 342 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 2: of Hawaii, Ronald Reagan, apparently David Bowie was on the list. 343 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 3: It was a big list. 344 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 2: Of people that, you know, the police found this upon 345 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,399 Speaker 2: their investigations of people that he wanted to murder. 346 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 1: Yes, alarmingly, he was hired as a security guard and 347 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: outfitted with a gun during this period, and in nineteen 348 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 1: eighty he quit his job and he bought his own gun. 349 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: He flew from Hawaii to New York with a gun 350 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,679 Speaker 1: in November of nineteen eighty and by this time, like 351 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 1: you said he'd come up with a list of famous 352 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,679 Speaker 1: people who he might kill. And during this trip, he 353 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: later said that he visited both Reagan's and Carter's election 354 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 1: night parties, probably with a gun, kind of like a 355 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 1: Travis Beck yeah, bikel kind of thing. 356 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, but he. 357 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 1: Didn't do anything, obviously, And he actually went back to 358 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: Hawaii afterward. 359 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, And before he did that, he went to Georgia 360 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:18,159 Speaker 2: to get bullets because at the time, you know, the 361 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 2: good old days, you could not even buy bullets in 362 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 2: New York City. So he went back to Georgia to 363 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,920 Speaker 2: get bullets. And I don't know if he couldn't buy 364 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 2: them there or what, but his plan was to get 365 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 2: them from a cop friend of his and said that 366 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 2: he was thinking about killing his dad. And then, you know, 367 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:38,360 Speaker 2: went back to Hawaii at that point, then went back 368 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 2: to New York on December sixth, which was a Saturday. 369 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 2: And maybe that's a good time to take a break, 370 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 2: what do you think? Yeah, all right, we'll be right. 371 00:19:47,840 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 3: Back, all right. 372 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 2: So Mark David Chapman is in New York on December eighth. 373 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 2: John Lennon and Yoko Ono are promoting the album they 374 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 2: had just released, Double Fantasy, they went to breakfast. John 375 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 2: Lennon went got a haircut. He had that awesome hair 376 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 2: at the time. It's when he was sort of in his. 377 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:43,200 Speaker 3: Kind of like grease or stray cats look. 378 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you're right. 379 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:46,919 Speaker 3: That was kind of kind of a cool. 380 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:48,680 Speaker 2: Look because he always had this long hair usually, and 381 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 2: all of a sudden he had sort of this greaser look, 382 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 2: which is which is super cool. Yeah, And he had 383 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 2: a very very famous photo shoot done at his apartment 384 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 2: that day with Annie Leibovitz for Rolling Stone. What a Day, 385 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 2: the iconic cover that was released much later in January 386 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 2: of nineteen eighty one, where John Lennon is curled up 387 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 2: naked beside Yoko Ono and the picture's kind of taken 388 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,920 Speaker 2: from above, very very famous photograph. 389 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 1: And that photograph was, you said, taken on the day 390 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 1: he died. 391 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:18,880 Speaker 3: That's right. 392 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:20,119 Speaker 1: Isn't that nuts? 393 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, not as nuts as one of the other photographs taken. 394 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 1: That No, that is it's great foreshadowing. So after the 395 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: Annie Leebowitz photo shoot, they went downstairs to Yoko's studio 396 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 1: and they were interviewed by RKO Radio and then after 397 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: that was time to go to work. It's like five 398 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 1: PM and Yoko and John leave the Dakota to go 399 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:47,199 Speaker 1: to the Record Plant, a recording studio, to work on 400 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,680 Speaker 1: a new single called Walking on Thin Ice. This is 401 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 1: around five o'clock and they leave the Dakota and as 402 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 1: they're leaving, they met a fan who was standing out 403 00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 1: on the sidewalk, and it turns out had been standing 404 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 1: out on the sidewalk essentially for the last few days 405 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 1: to waiting to run into John Lennon. And that fan 406 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:08,680 Speaker 1: was in fact, Mark David Chapman. 407 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 3: Yeah. 408 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:12,919 Speaker 2: As an odd side note, and I think this just 409 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 2: came out in sort of semi recent years. He was 410 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:18,119 Speaker 2: not the only person to meet Mark David Chapman as 411 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,919 Speaker 2: a musician there. Yeah, But James Taylor said that he 412 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 2: bumped into him. He lived, i think a couple of 413 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 2: buildings up from the Dakota, and he met Mark David 414 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 2: Chapman on the subway and he told the story, you know, 415 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 2: in the past few years. He said that he had 416 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 2: button holed me in the tube station right in front 417 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 2: of seventy second Street the day before the murder, and 418 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 2: he had sort of pinned me to the wall, not physically, 419 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 2: but you know, just sort of metaphorically. I guess he 420 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 2: was glistening with my niacal sweat and talking some freak 421 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 2: speak about what he was going to do with this stuff, 422 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 2: and how John Lennon was interested, because I don't think 423 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 2: we mentioned he wanted to be a he wanted to 424 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 2: be famous, but he supposedly tried to play guitar. I'm 425 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,679 Speaker 2: not sure how much he fancied himself a musician, but 426 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 2: I don't think it's like he was delivering demo tapes 427 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 2: or anything unless I had never caught that. But freak 428 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,200 Speaker 2: speak about what he was going to do, how Lennon 429 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:15,880 Speaker 2: was interested in how he's going to get in touch 430 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:19,159 Speaker 2: with John Lennon. He said he seemed either drugged or 431 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 2: in a manic break of some sort. His eyes were 432 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:26,440 Speaker 2: darting all over the place, dilated like crazy. And then 433 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 2: he closed by saying he was just someone who knew 434 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,359 Speaker 2: me and who I didn't know, and he had an 435 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,119 Speaker 2: agenda that I couldn't deal with, and I knew that 436 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:35,440 Speaker 2: I needed to get away from him. 437 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: Isn't that crazy? He met James Taylor the day before 438 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:40,120 Speaker 1: he killed John Lennon. 439 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,680 Speaker 2: And Taylor heard the shots from his apartment. Yeah, when 440 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:44,639 Speaker 2: it happened. 441 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 1: So all but before that, after he met James Taylor, 442 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,920 Speaker 1: but before he shot John Lennon. This is still where 443 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,399 Speaker 1: around five o'clock, when Yoko and John are leaving the 444 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,119 Speaker 1: Dakota for the record plant, Mark Chapman walks up and 445 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: asks him to sign his copy of Double Fantasy, that 446 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:05,679 Speaker 1: record that had just come out the month before. And 447 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 1: that photo that you referenced, Chuck, that even weirder photo. 448 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 1: There's a picture of this happening of John Lennon signing 449 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,639 Speaker 1: Mark David Chapman's copy of Double Fantasy. Just so happened 450 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 1: that there was somebody with the camera standing on the 451 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 1: sidewalk that decided to snap a picture of John Lennon 452 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 1: signing an album for the man who would take his 453 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:26,919 Speaker 1: life a few hours later. 454 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:32,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's one of the creepier photos that exists, especially 455 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 2: if you're a Beatles fan. It was a photographer named 456 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 2: Paul Garesh, and. 457 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,640 Speaker 3: He didn't quite happen to be there. 458 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,119 Speaker 2: He was someone who hung out there all the time, okay, 459 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 2: to get pictures of Lenin and they were in fact 460 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,879 Speaker 2: friendly because he was always around and you know, obviously 461 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 2: a huge Beatles fan and John Lennon like he would 462 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,439 Speaker 2: chat him up, and he was he was really he 463 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:57,679 Speaker 2: was a generous human as a super famous musician, right, 464 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 2: and so he would spend time talking with Gorsh and 465 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 2: stuff like that when they were he was waiting on 466 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 2: a car or something like that. And that's why he 467 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 2: was out there for a few minutes this time, as 468 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 2: they were kind of just waiting on their car. And yeah, 469 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 2: he signed it in pen. That record was auctioned off 470 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,160 Speaker 2: a couple of years ago for nine hundred thousand dollars 471 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 2: and was signed in pen. But it also has you know, 472 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 2: like police sharpie markings, like evidence markings on it and 473 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 2: stuff like that. 474 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: It also has Chapman's enhanced thumbprint, like from police forensics 475 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: testing it. 476 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I mean, I don't know one other. 477 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 2: I'm not going to cast his persions on who would 478 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 2: buy something like that for almost a million dollars. Yeah, 479 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 2: but you know, ten people been on it, so I 480 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 2: guess I'm not sure if it was a Beatles fan 481 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 2: looking to show it off or destroy it or what. 482 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 3: I didn't get any information about who bought it. 483 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,200 Speaker 1: There's one other creepy footnote of this initial meeting too. 484 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 1: Apparently somebody reported who was there when all this happened 485 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:02,360 Speaker 1: that John Lennon asked Mark David Chapman, is that all 486 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 1: you want? And Mark David Chapman apparently just stood there 487 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 1: and stunned silence, and John Lennon asked him again, is 488 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 1: that all you want? And I guess Mark David Chapman 489 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 1: said yeah or something like that, And so John Lennon said, okay, 490 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,119 Speaker 1: see you later and turned around and got in the 491 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: car and left. 492 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 3: For the record, planted yeah, and that was enough. 493 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:27,359 Speaker 2: That interaction was so amicable and friendly as a super 494 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 2: famous guy talking with someone, you know, stalking outside of 495 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:37,359 Speaker 2: his apartment that Mark David Chapman reconsidered in that moment 496 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 2: and was like, geez, you know, maybe I should go 497 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 2: home and show my wife this autograph that I got. 498 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 2: He was really kind to me, but that didn't happen 499 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 2: because he has mental illness. He heard in his head. 500 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 2: When he came back Lennon and Yoko Ono got back 501 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 2: just before eleven, he was still there. That limousine, like 502 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 2: you said, could pulled in that courtyard area where they 503 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 2: would have had a gate behind them, but they dropped 504 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:10,119 Speaker 2: them off on the sidewalk, and in his brain he 505 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 2: said he heard a voice saying do it, do it? 506 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:13,400 Speaker 3: Do it? 507 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 2: With his external human voice, he just said, mister Lennon, 508 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 2: and John Lennon turned around, and he fired his thirty 509 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:26,399 Speaker 2: eight pistol five times and hit him four times. 510 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:31,719 Speaker 1: Yeah. So John Lennon stumbles forward, and I believe it 511 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 1: was either the doormant or the security guard is standing 512 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,240 Speaker 1: there and John Lennon says to him, I've been shot. 513 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:41,879 Speaker 1: And there's a three part documentary series coming out on 514 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:46,399 Speaker 1: Apple Plus called John Lennon Colon Murder without a Trial. 515 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: And I guess some publicists didn't do their research or whatever, 516 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,239 Speaker 1: because all of the stuff that all of like the 517 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,240 Speaker 1: ink that's being written about that documentary in the last 518 00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,640 Speaker 1: week is about how it reveals John Lennon's last words, 519 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 1: which turned out to be I've been shot. But anybody 520 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,120 Speaker 1: who cared to even go read even the first couple 521 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,720 Speaker 1: articles that covered this at the time, we'll see that 522 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 1: his last words were I've been shot. 523 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,440 Speaker 3: But they made it sound like it was breaking news. 524 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 1: Yes, they made it sound like at long last, this documentary, 525 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 1: forty three years later is revealed his last words, but 526 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:22,160 Speaker 1: his last words were I've been shot. Technically, his last 527 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 1: word was yes, because when he was laying there on 528 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 1: the sidewalk, the police got there within two minutes and 529 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 1: one of the cops that, are you John Lennon? And 530 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 1: he said yes, and that was the last thing he 531 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: ever said. The cops got there really quickly. But the 532 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 1: thing that they found that was extraordinarily creepy was what 533 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 1: Mark David Chapman did after he shot John Lennon. 534 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 3: Right yeah. 535 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 2: The security guard yelled out, do you know what you 536 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 2: just did? And Chapman said, I just shot John Lennon, 537 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 2: which would become a Cranberrys song in nineteen ninety six, 538 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 2: that was about the murder of John Lennon. And he 539 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 2: picked up his copy of Ketchri and the Rye and 540 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 2: he leaned against the building and started thumbing through it. 541 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:05,920 Speaker 2: I think it was a he had bought a new 542 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 2: copy that day of his favorite book. And he you know, 543 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 2: didn't try and get away, didn't try and do anything, 544 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:16,240 Speaker 2: went very peacefully. The police when they got there, knew 545 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 2: how dire this was. You know, four bullets at close 546 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 2: range like that was, you know, basically a death sentence, 547 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 2: and they knew they certainly couldn't wait for an ambulance, 548 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 2: so they put him in the squad car, drove him 549 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 2: to what was the time Roosevelt Hospital now Mount Sinai West, 550 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 2: and supposedly, I mean I saw that he was listed 551 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 2: as dead on arrival. They tried to resuscitate him, I 552 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 2: think for about twenty minutes. Yeah, and they finally pronounced 553 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 2: him dead at eleven fifteen. But I've heard different accounts 554 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 2: that he died in the police car too. He died, 555 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 2: you know, upon arrival at the hospital, And I'm not 556 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:57,480 Speaker 2: really sure anyone knows the exact moment. 557 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: No. I read a interview with the emergency room doctor 558 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 1: that tried to save him, Stephan Glynn, and he said, 559 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 1: like the bullets were so incredibly well placed that he 560 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,479 Speaker 1: actually had Lennon's heart in his hand trying to pump 561 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 1: the blood to keep the blood flow going, and he 562 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 1: said there was nothing to pump. He'd lost so much blood, 563 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 1: there was no blood to pump in at any rate. 564 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 1: All the arteries around the heart were so torn up 565 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:28,320 Speaker 1: they couldn't move any blood anyway. So it's probably likely 566 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 1: he was dead in just that short car trip to 567 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 1: the hospital. 568 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, the official autopsy found two bullets went into his 569 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 2: back and went through his left lung, another went through 570 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 2: his left shoulder, also through his left lung and then 571 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 2: lodged in his neck, and the other one hit his 572 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 2: left armbone. And in a very sort of strange turn 573 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 2: of events, this news got out very quickly because there 574 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 2: was a producer for WABCTV there in the emergency room 575 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 2: named Alan j Weiss who was being treated after a 576 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 2: motorcycle crash, and all of a sudden, you know, it's 577 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 2: not like a just a regular person being wheeled into 578 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 2: an er. It was people were sort of losing their 579 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 2: minds and it was really chaotic. He knew that something 580 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 2: was going on, and he just gathered from sort of 581 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 2: hearing things that it was in fact John Lennon. And 582 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 2: as he says, and this sounds I'm not sure why, 583 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 2: I don't want to believe it, but he says that 584 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 2: the musaic playing in the room while they were trying 585 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 2: to revive him was all my Loving. 586 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 1: Yeah Beatles song. Yeah for those of us who aren't 587 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,160 Speaker 1: really into the Beatles enough to know that that's a 588 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 1: Beatles song. 589 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:45,960 Speaker 2: Sure, because he would not mention all my Lovin by 590 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 2: the Everly Brothers. 591 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:52,240 Speaker 1: You never know, He's like, that's just weird. He also 592 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,000 Speaker 1: said that he heard Yoko and no scream, and he 593 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,400 Speaker 1: talked to one of the doctors attending to him and 594 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 1: they agreed that John Lennon probably was and he was 595 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 1: convinced enough that he called the station WABC and told 596 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: them the news. And so the news broke on ABC, 597 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: which just so happened to be airing Monday night football, 598 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 1: and it was Howard Cosell that broke the news to 599 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 1: the world essentially of John Lennon's death. 600 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:18,800 Speaker 3: Yeah. 601 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,560 Speaker 2: It was a Patriots Dolphins game, tied up in the 602 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 2: fourth quarter, and Frank Gifford, you know, while they were 603 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 2: in commercial, they discussed, like what should we do here? 604 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 3: This is too big to kind of sit on. 605 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 2: Apparently coselle did not really want to do it, but 606 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,719 Speaker 2: Frank Gifford was like, we kind of have to. And 607 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:40,520 Speaker 2: so as the quote goes, Gifford said, you know, three 608 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:44,080 Speaker 2: seconds remaining, John Smith is on the line, and I 609 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 2: don't care what's on the line, Howard, you've got to 610 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 2: say what we know. In the booth, and Howard Cosell 611 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 2: talked about, you know, this is just a football game. 612 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 2: He said, Lennon was shot twice, so the you know, 613 00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 2: the news wasn't even accurate that quickly off the you know, 614 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 2: off the wire, or I guess it wouldn't even a 615 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 2: wire at that point. But he said that he was 616 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 2: dead on arrival and that it's hard to go back 617 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 2: to the game at that point. 618 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. So I also read Stevie Wonder stopped his concert 619 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 1: in Oakland when he heard the news and broke it 620 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 1: to his fans too. It was a huge, huge deal. 621 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 1: I mean, like you said, you were even aware of it, 622 00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 1: and you weren't even like a Beatles fan or very 623 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 1: aware of the Beatles if you were a Beatles fan 624 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 1: at the time. Yeah, right, yeah, if you were a 625 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 1: Beatles fan at the time, it was the most devastating 626 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 1: news you've heard since the Beatles were breaking up. Maybe 627 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 1: even more devastating than. 628 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:40,720 Speaker 2: That, I would say, so, probably because that ruined any 629 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:42,760 Speaker 2: chance of it ever being reunited. 630 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, fair point. I saw that somebody was like, what 631 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 1: would have happened if John Lennon hadn't been killed. Somebody 632 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 1: was like, they probably would have played together here or there, 633 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,480 Speaker 1: you know once in a while. So yeah, yeah, I'm 634 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 1: sure it was much worse. 635 00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,920 Speaker 2: But well, he and Paul had had repaired their relationship 636 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 2: by that point, and the whole you know, the Beatles 637 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 2: breakup was it was acrimonious in that they were all 638 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:12,320 Speaker 2: sort of not tired of each other, but just tired 639 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,279 Speaker 2: of being in that band together. But it wasn't you know, 640 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:17,399 Speaker 2: they never hated each other. It was like any long 641 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:21,440 Speaker 2: term creative partnership. They had a strain, but they had 642 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:23,279 Speaker 2: worked it out, and they were hanging out together in 643 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:25,680 Speaker 2: New York some when Paul was in town, and you know, 644 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,719 Speaker 2: it wasn't like, you know, they weren't talking anymore or 645 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,960 Speaker 2: anything like that. Things were headed toward reconciliation, if not professionally, 646 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:34,360 Speaker 2: certainly personally. 647 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:41,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, they did work it out. Please, I think with that, Chuck, 648 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 1: we should probably take a break. 649 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 3: Huh, let's do it. 650 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 1: Okay. So we're back and the world is now just 651 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 1: learning that John Lennon has been killed. Yoko No, I'm 652 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:28,480 Speaker 1: not sure exactly when she did it, but she released 653 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:30,880 Speaker 1: a statement saying like there's not going to be a funeral, 654 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,400 Speaker 1: which is probably a wise move because I can't imagine 655 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 1: what John Lennon's funeral would have looked like. It would 656 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:39,360 Speaker 1: have just been chaos. But instead she said, I think 657 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:41,719 Speaker 1: it would be more appropriate to have like a ten 658 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,480 Speaker 1: minute silent vigil. And around the world people observe this 659 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,120 Speaker 1: ten minute silent vigil, and apparently in Central Park there 660 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:53,080 Speaker 1: was upwards of fifty thousand people standing there silently for 661 00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 1: ten minutes. And I heard a report that the only 662 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,359 Speaker 1: thing you could hear in Central Park in Manhattan at 663 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 1: the time where the helicopters s whirling overhead who were 664 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:04,759 Speaker 1: covering this for the news, Like no one talked to 665 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:08,040 Speaker 1: car horns. There was nothing for that ten minute vigil, 666 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:10,880 Speaker 1: which must have just really kind of driven home like 667 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,480 Speaker 1: the significance of that moment, you. 668 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 2: Know, Yeah, I mean it was before that though the Dakota, 669 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,880 Speaker 2: like there are pictures of I mean, it looked like 670 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:24,000 Speaker 2: a you know, a festival, a concert, festival of people 671 00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:28,040 Speaker 2: just outside the Dakota. I mean, it's not a stretch 672 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,600 Speaker 2: to say it was like on the manner of like 673 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,800 Speaker 2: the Queen dying or something like that. I mean, people 674 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:38,040 Speaker 2: all over the world, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands 675 00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:42,520 Speaker 2: gathering together to mourn his death, and even very sadly, 676 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,680 Speaker 2: a couple of people in the following days took their 677 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:51,640 Speaker 2: life by suicide. Mentioning Lenin's death and depression kind of 678 00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:53,600 Speaker 2: pushing them over the edge and their suicide notes. 679 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:57,640 Speaker 1: Yes, Paul McCartney when he heard the news and was, 680 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,839 Speaker 1: I guess asked by a reporter Tom on it, he 681 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:06,680 Speaker 1: said something like drag, isn't it okay? Cheers and was 682 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,240 Speaker 1: very widely criticized for it, and he, in his defense 683 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:12,680 Speaker 1: said like, I couldn't bring to words like what I 684 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,440 Speaker 1: was feeling at the moment. I was in shock. Apparently 685 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,160 Speaker 1: he went off and wrote a a song about the 686 00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 1: whole thing called Here Today. Have you heard that song? 687 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,360 Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, it's on the Tug of War record, the 688 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,440 Speaker 2: Good One. It's okay, I mean, it's not my favorite 689 00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,960 Speaker 2: from that record, But that that interview that always has 690 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,000 Speaker 2: bothered me. If you see the interview, it's just like 691 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,040 Speaker 2: he's jammed in the middle of throngs of people on 692 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,840 Speaker 2: a sidewalk and someone you know, sticks a camera and 693 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,879 Speaker 2: microphone in his face, and when you watch it, it's 694 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:44,400 Speaker 2: clear he's not being flip. 695 00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 3: He's he's a guy who's who. 696 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 2: Probably doesn't want a camera and microphone shoved in his 697 00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 2: face at that very moment and is just trying to 698 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:55,200 Speaker 2: get out of there. Paul McCartney was obviously crushed, as 699 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,840 Speaker 2: were all the Beatles. Ringo Star was in the Bahamas, 700 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:02,120 Speaker 2: immediately came to New York and acted as you know, 701 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,120 Speaker 2: sort of temporary dad to Sean, because Yoka was like, 702 00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:07,279 Speaker 2: I need I need help with my son. You know, 703 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,520 Speaker 2: you don't think about like the nuts and bolts of 704 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:12,960 Speaker 2: going through something like that, one of which is I 705 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,919 Speaker 2: have a five year old that needs to be looked after. 706 00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:20,040 Speaker 2: And Ringo stepped in there, which is amazing that it. 707 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:22,359 Speaker 1: Seems like a pretty Ringo Star thing to do too. 708 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:23,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree. 709 00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:27,360 Speaker 1: George Harrison, he was off on his kind of like 710 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:31,239 Speaker 1: Eastern philosophy trip and had been devoting his life to 711 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:37,160 Speaker 1: preparing for a peaceful death. So when he got the news, 712 00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:39,640 Speaker 1: he apparently thought he got the call in the middle 713 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:41,600 Speaker 1: of the night and his wife Olivia took the call, 714 00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:43,800 Speaker 1: and he thought he just guessed at first that Ringo 715 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:45,759 Speaker 1: Starr was dead for some reason. I never saw what 716 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:48,960 Speaker 1: his reasoning was. He just said that he thought that 717 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,040 Speaker 1: in an interview. But then when he found out what 718 00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:54,920 Speaker 1: had happened, he apparently was really angry that that John 719 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,360 Speaker 1: had been like robbed of a chance of having like 720 00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:00,719 Speaker 1: a peaceful, like calm death, that he died in such 721 00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:03,160 Speaker 1: a violent manner, and it took him a while to 722 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:05,720 Speaker 1: get over that and just kind of accept that that happened. 723 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:10,239 Speaker 1: But on that note too, about the fact that John 724 00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:15,919 Speaker 1: Lennon died in a violent manner, he supposedly had kind 725 00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:20,720 Speaker 1: of postulated that something like that might happen to him someday, 726 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,080 Speaker 1: and he chalked it up to his violent pass that 727 00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:26,759 Speaker 1: he was a violent person and that he expected he 728 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:31,760 Speaker 1: might die violently when he went. I thought was very bizarre. 729 00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:36,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, very much. Julian was seventeen. He was in North Wales, 730 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,240 Speaker 2: and he said he woke up with a gut feeling 731 00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:43,919 Speaker 2: that something terrible had happened, and he, as the story goes, 732 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:47,040 Speaker 2: went downstairs and opened the curtains of his mother and 733 00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:50,960 Speaker 2: stepfather's house and it was just mobbed with press. So 734 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:55,439 Speaker 2: that's how he finds out terrible. Lenin was cremated at 735 00:39:55,520 --> 00:40:00,520 Speaker 2: Ferncliff Cemetery outside New York City, in Hartsdale. But there 736 00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:04,799 Speaker 2: was somebody who took another photograph, an unfortunate one of 737 00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,319 Speaker 2: his body in the morgue, and the New York Posts 738 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:09,520 Speaker 2: published it, which is terrible. 739 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, on the front page, I think. And if it 740 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:13,000 Speaker 1: wasn't the New York Post that put it on the 741 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:18,000 Speaker 1: front page, the Inquirer definitely did. So, Yeah, there's some 742 00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:23,600 Speaker 1: really significant photographs just that circle this event. So Mark 743 00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:27,080 Speaker 1: David Chapman shows up in court two days later, he's 744 00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:30,319 Speaker 1: taken to jail of obviously by the police, placed under 745 00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:34,080 Speaker 1: suicide watch. And also I think he was wearing a 746 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:36,960 Speaker 1: bulletproof vest in court because there was just such a 747 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:40,760 Speaker 1: chance that somebody would kill him for killing John Lennon. 748 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:44,960 Speaker 1: Still today, I think if he left prison, somebody might 749 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,720 Speaker 1: kill him for killing John Lennon forty three years later, 750 00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:51,040 Speaker 1: you know. And I suspect he might be aware of that. 751 00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:56,560 Speaker 1: But he underwent a battery of psychiatric tests with I 752 00:40:56,560 --> 00:41:02,239 Speaker 1: believe a dozen psychiatrists over two hundred hours between over 753 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:04,520 Speaker 1: about the six months between the first time he was 754 00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:06,920 Speaker 1: arraigned and when he ended up pleading guilty in court, 755 00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:12,200 Speaker 1: and every single one of these psychiatrists, prosecution and defense 756 00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,480 Speaker 1: said this guy has some sort of mental illness. The 757 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:19,080 Speaker 1: degree of it was disagreed upon by the prosecution and 758 00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:23,920 Speaker 1: the defense. The defense a psychiatrist real like he has schizophrenia, 759 00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:28,960 Speaker 1: he has psychosis. He's not aware of what he did. 760 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:31,799 Speaker 1: The prosecution said, he's very aware of what he did. 761 00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:35,120 Speaker 1: He has mental illness, probably some sort of personality disorder, 762 00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:39,200 Speaker 1: but definitely not anything that's made him so detached from reality. 763 00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:40,840 Speaker 1: He's not culpable for this crime. 764 00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:46,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. Finally, on June twenty second, he changed 765 00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:50,120 Speaker 2: his plea himself. His attorney. It was actually a second 766 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:54,759 Speaker 2: attorney because the first one withdrew very quickly because there 767 00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,880 Speaker 2: were death threats, like you're, you know, defending Mark David Chapman. 768 00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:01,799 Speaker 2: But Jonathan Marx was the second US attorney appointed, and 769 00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:06,000 Speaker 2: he was like, don't change your plea to guilty, because 770 00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:09,120 Speaker 2: you know, we could probably get you, you know, at 771 00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:14,719 Speaker 2: least insane at the time of the shooting, like temporary insanity. 772 00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:18,400 Speaker 3: Which did they still even use that as a plea? 773 00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:21,120 Speaker 1: I don't know, man. I know we've done an episode 774 00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:23,759 Speaker 1: on it, but I don't remember where it landed these days. 775 00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:27,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not sure. But he changes guilty plea to 776 00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:30,680 Speaker 2: guilty of second degree murder. On August twenty fourth, the 777 00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:33,719 Speaker 2: judge sentence send to twenty years to life at green 778 00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:38,800 Speaker 2: Haven Correctional Facility and said you should get psychiatric treatment 779 00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:42,600 Speaker 2: and Mark David Chapman read from The Catcher in the 780 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,960 Speaker 2: Rye the part where I was just going to read 781 00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:47,440 Speaker 2: it but it's a little long, but the part where 782 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,320 Speaker 2: holding call Field is basically talking about saving the kids, yeah, 783 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:56,440 Speaker 2: that are in danger of wandering off the cliff. And 784 00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:58,400 Speaker 2: you know that's when he calls himself the Catcher and 785 00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:00,799 Speaker 2: the Rye and that's you know, he was still so 786 00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:05,160 Speaker 2: attached to that book at that point that that was 787 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:07,200 Speaker 2: sort of his final statement. And I think he even 788 00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:10,400 Speaker 2: had a copy of the book that he had inscribed 789 00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:12,280 Speaker 2: and said this is my statement. 790 00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:14,840 Speaker 1: Yeah. Apparently the book, the copy that he was reading 791 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,560 Speaker 1: after he shot John Lennon had that written in it. 792 00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,360 Speaker 1: And if you read that James R. Gaines interview with 793 00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:23,719 Speaker 1: him and people from nineteen eighty seven, this period of time, 794 00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:26,879 Speaker 1: that six months are when he really seems the most 795 00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:30,400 Speaker 1: mentally ill, when it really shines through, because he's vacillating 796 00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:33,719 Speaker 1: between a complete and total immersion in The Catcher in 797 00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,799 Speaker 1: the Rye and rejecting the Catcher in the Rye and 798 00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:39,520 Speaker 1: going to the Bible and then vice versa. And there's 799 00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:44,000 Speaker 1: a point where he has this awareness that the whole 800 00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:46,480 Speaker 1: reason he shot John Lennon is to let everyone know 801 00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:49,719 Speaker 1: that he's this generation's catcher in the rye, and every 802 00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:51,839 Speaker 1: generation has a catcher in the rye, and he's the 803 00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:55,320 Speaker 1: one now. And it's really unsettling and disturbing. And it 804 00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:58,719 Speaker 1: would be really difficult to say the things that are 805 00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:03,400 Speaker 1: coming out of this guy's mouth documented and be just 806 00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:06,719 Speaker 1: making it up to make yourself seem mentally ill. It's 807 00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:10,920 Speaker 1: just it's too off, unhinged essentially. 808 00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:14,000 Speaker 2: Well, and there was a history of this in his life, 809 00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:15,840 Speaker 2: you know. It wasn't like all of a sudden after 810 00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:17,840 Speaker 2: the murder he just started saying these things. 811 00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,560 Speaker 1: You know. Yeah. And also, I mean, even if if 812 00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:22,600 Speaker 1: you exclude all that, don't you have to be mentally 813 00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:25,320 Speaker 1: ill to kill somebody to become famous. Doesn't that require 814 00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:28,399 Speaker 1: a certain level of at least like a fundamental personality 815 00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:31,160 Speaker 1: disorder that would qualify as a genuine mental illness? 816 00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:33,839 Speaker 3: I think so I do too. 817 00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:37,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm no psychiatrist, but if you believe that you 818 00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:42,520 Speaker 2: can acquire someone's fame by murdering it, then essentially, yeah, 819 00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:46,120 Speaker 2: there were a couple of the other motives. I mean, 820 00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:48,759 Speaker 2: you know, the motive is what it is, which is 821 00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:52,239 Speaker 2: a disturbed person wanting to kill a famous person to 822 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:56,360 Speaker 2: gain fame. But he also was a very devout Christian 823 00:44:57,239 --> 00:44:59,560 Speaker 2: after this, and at one point, you know, the Beatles 824 00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,840 Speaker 2: talked about being more popular than Jesus. He offended his 825 00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:08,200 Speaker 2: Christianity with stuff like that and the song Imagine. But 826 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,760 Speaker 2: you know, I don't think those were like the big reasons. 827 00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:15,640 Speaker 2: He has expressed more and more remorse and shame over 828 00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:19,200 Speaker 2: the years as time went by, because in twenty I'm sorry. 829 00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:23,479 Speaker 2: In two thousand he became eligible for parole, and every 830 00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:26,680 Speaker 2: two years he goes up before the board and he 831 00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:31,440 Speaker 2: expresses shame. Now, he said in twenty twenty, what I 832 00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:35,680 Speaker 2: did was despicable. I assassinated him because he was very, 833 00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:39,120 Speaker 2: very very famous, and that's the only reason. And I 834 00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:43,839 Speaker 2: was very very much seeking self glory, very selfish. For 835 00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:47,359 Speaker 2: her part, Yoko Ono always writes a letter saying, please 836 00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:51,000 Speaker 2: don't let him out. I don't feel like it's a 837 00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:57,480 Speaker 2: punitive plea. From hearing interviews, she genuinely thinks that herself 838 00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,840 Speaker 2: or Sean or Julian would be in danger if he 839 00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:03,279 Speaker 2: was let out, And who can blame her? 840 00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:08,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, yeah, I don't know what else to 841 00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:08,879 Speaker 1: say after that. 842 00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:11,759 Speaker 2: And one more thing I want to mention is, of 843 00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:16,360 Speaker 2: course Strawberry Fields, the place in October of nineteen eighty five, 844 00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:19,760 Speaker 2: on what would have been Lennon's forty fifth birthday, Central 845 00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:24,320 Speaker 2: Park dedicated dedicated an area near the Dakota where he 846 00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:26,800 Speaker 2: used to go and walks with Sean as Strawberry Fields. 847 00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:29,799 Speaker 2: And it's a wonderful place to visit. It's got this 848 00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:34,040 Speaker 2: beautiful mosaic on a walking path and if you go 849 00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:37,880 Speaker 2: there are always you can't go there without seeing still 850 00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:43,520 Speaker 2: just scores of Beatles fans paying their respects. Nice. Yeah, 851 00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:49,320 Speaker 2: and Yoko ninety years old, still going strong and lived 852 00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:52,640 Speaker 2: in that same apartment until just a few years ago. 853 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:54,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. And there's a lot of people who 854 00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:55,960 Speaker 1: love to hate on Yoko. If you want to get 855 00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:59,320 Speaker 1: into John Lennon conspiracy theories, she's frequently the person who's 856 00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:03,760 Speaker 1: blamed as like hiring in it indirectly mark David Chapman 857 00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:07,719 Speaker 1: as the hit man to kill her, right exactly at 858 00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:10,879 Speaker 1: the same time. That kind of that, that's the kind 859 00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:14,040 Speaker 1: of thing that gives people who despise her fodder for 860 00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:16,919 Speaker 1: being like sea. She just she'd walk past the place 861 00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:19,759 Speaker 1: where her husband died every day and it didn't you know, 862 00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:22,440 Speaker 1: she didn't move or something like that. So she's a 863 00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:25,120 Speaker 1: very misunderstood person. I think in a lot of ways. 864 00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:28,600 Speaker 1: She finally did move during the COVID pandemic up to 865 00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:29,680 Speaker 1: upstate New York. 866 00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:34,000 Speaker 2: I think with Sean, yeah, people need to stop all 867 00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:35,839 Speaker 2: the Yoko stuff for God's sake. 868 00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean it's still going strong if you read 869 00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:40,960 Speaker 1: the Internet, but it does feel like it's gone. There's 870 00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:42,840 Speaker 1: been a sea change. I think it used to be 871 00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:47,000 Speaker 1: way more acceptable to just hate on her, and just 872 00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:50,399 Speaker 1: in general, I think it's gotten a little more conspiracy 873 00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:53,080 Speaker 1: oriented rather than just mainstream these days. 874 00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:56,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, Yoko Ono did not break up the Beatles full 875 00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:02,040 Speaker 2: stop stop saying that. If you watch that the great 876 00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:08,160 Speaker 2: Peter Jackson documentary that was out recently, it was it 877 00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:10,520 Speaker 2: was definitely an odd thing for all of a sudden 878 00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:15,120 Speaker 2: to have her in the recording studio with them. It's different. 879 00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:20,000 Speaker 2: But Paul was like, it was an adjustment, and Paul 880 00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:23,279 Speaker 2: was like, hey, listen, I it's a little weird, but 881 00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:26,839 Speaker 2: like he needs her, he loves her. She's great for him, 882 00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:29,640 Speaker 2: and she's not It's not like she's much of a 883 00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:32,760 Speaker 2: disruption or anything like even when you watch the footage, 884 00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:36,080 Speaker 2: she's she's just there and other family members are popping 885 00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:38,400 Speaker 2: in here, here and there all the time. She was 886 00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:41,040 Speaker 2: there the whole time, and he really needed her at 887 00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,840 Speaker 2: that point, like she was his life. And Paul McCartney 888 00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:47,319 Speaker 2: understood that, and he knew that like that was going 889 00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:49,400 Speaker 2: to be part of the working arrangement moving forward, and 890 00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:51,360 Speaker 2: they were getting okay with that, you know. 891 00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:55,239 Speaker 1: Nice. Well, I'm glad you finally settled it once and 892 00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:55,680 Speaker 1: for all. 893 00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure not everyone will be like well Chuck said, 894 00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:00,560 Speaker 2: it goes great. 895 00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:02,799 Speaker 1: So if you got anything else. 896 00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:05,960 Speaker 2: No, I don't love her singing, but that's a different 897 00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:07,759 Speaker 2: story we've talked about. 898 00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:09,080 Speaker 1: I think we have. But I'm sure I've mentioned before. 899 00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:11,600 Speaker 1: I have you ever seen her cover of Fireworks? 900 00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:13,160 Speaker 3: Uh huh? I love that, man. 901 00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:17,839 Speaker 2: I just think she's a true original artist. So even 902 00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:20,919 Speaker 2: if I don't love the singing, like, she's always done 903 00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:21,640 Speaker 2: interesting things. 904 00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:24,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, Well, if you want to know more about 905 00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:27,440 Speaker 1: the death of John Lennon, there is no shortage of 906 00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:30,200 Speaker 1: articles and documents and stuff that you can read on 907 00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:32,960 Speaker 1: the Internet. And since I said that, of course it's 908 00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:37,040 Speaker 1: time for listener mail, I'm. 909 00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:40,560 Speaker 2: Gonna call us just a recent email from a young listener. Hey, 910 00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:44,560 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, not even hey, Yo, Josh and Chuck. My 911 00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:47,200 Speaker 2: name is Ben S and I'm a thirteen year old 912 00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:50,400 Speaker 2: from Eagle Mountain, Utah. Love your podcast. I have been 913 00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:52,000 Speaker 2: listening to it for years and it makes me feel 914 00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:55,160 Speaker 2: very smart around my friends. My dad introduced us to 915 00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:57,640 Speaker 2: it by having us listen to it on all of 916 00:49:57,640 --> 00:49:59,959 Speaker 2: our road trips because we really like to go camp. 917 00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:03,239 Speaker 2: I come from a family of six kids, and four 918 00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:08,840 Speaker 2: of us have a rare skin condition called epidermalysis epidermalysis 919 00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:12,560 Speaker 2: belosa Simplex'd be super cool if you guys did a 920 00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:15,719 Speaker 2: podcast about our skin condition and also this. We have 921 00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:18,160 Speaker 2: a contest in our family to see who can get 922 00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:20,759 Speaker 2: on listener mail first, and I'm really hoping it can 923 00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:23,600 Speaker 2: be me. So if you do read this on the podcast, 924 00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:27,400 Speaker 2: can you shout out my family, Mom, Dad, Ricky, Lily, Me, Olivia, 925 00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:28,480 Speaker 2: Sam and Grace. 926 00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:29,919 Speaker 3: Thanks again for the show. 927 00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:32,480 Speaker 2: Hopefully I can listen to it all through high school 928 00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:36,920 Speaker 2: and college and Ben, sometimes we like to make dreams 929 00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:40,400 Speaker 2: come true, so that's why I picked this one. So 930 00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:43,520 Speaker 2: take that to Mom, Dad, Ricky, Lily, Olivia, Sam and Grace. 931 00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:46,200 Speaker 1: Ben one everybody contest is over. 932 00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:48,400 Speaker 2: First one to email as far as I know, but 933 00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:51,120 Speaker 2: that's all goes well. 934 00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:53,279 Speaker 1: That's awesome. Thanks a lot, Ben. We appreciate him. We're 935 00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:54,879 Speaker 1: glad we could help you out a little bit. Thank 936 00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:57,080 Speaker 1: you very much for listening, and we hope you do 937 00:50:57,200 --> 00:50:59,600 Speaker 1: continue to listen throughout the rest of your life and 938 00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:02,120 Speaker 1: to be like Ben and send an email and let 939 00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:04,560 Speaker 1: us know you're super cool. We love that kind of thing. 940 00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:06,480 Speaker 1: You can wrap it up, spank it on the bottom, 941 00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:11,400 Speaker 1: and send it off to Stuff Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com. 942 00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:16,080 Speaker 3: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 943 00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:20,359 Speaker 3: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 944 00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:22,320 Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.