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Speaker 1: King Slime is a production of iHeart Podcasts and Heirloom Media.

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Speaker 2: Good Morning, Council's insured parties. We are on the record

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Speaker 2: of the matter of Saint Georgia versus Khalif Adams at

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Speaker 2: all in twenty two sc One eight three five seventeen.

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Speaker 3: Let me go ahead and take roll.

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Speaker 2: At this point in time, it's April nineteen, twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 2: four and a half months into the isl pre trial process.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Jurors are being vetted and lawyers on both

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Speaker 2: sides are making cases for what should be admissible as

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Speaker 2: evidence steal. Good morning. These are rather bureaucratic steps in

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Speaker 2: the process. But I've been given a tip that something

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Speaker 2: big might happen today. So I'm at the Fulton County

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Speaker 2: Courthouse on Prior Street in downtown Atlanta. All right, we're

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Speaker 2: going to take a recess for lunch.

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Speaker 3: I'll see you all back at one thirty, and we

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Speaker 3: can kind of update accordingly at that point in time. Okay.

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Speaker 2: After an early afternoon recess, thirteen defendants more than it doesnt,

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Speaker 2: defense attorneys, several sheriff's deputies, and full of reporters like

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Speaker 2: me start to trickle back into the chambers. When Suddenly,

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Speaker 2: the dull murmur of court preparing to resume is pierced

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Speaker 2: by a blood curdling scream. The scream comes from the

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Speaker 2: courtroom holding cell, connected to the chamber by a closed door.

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Speaker 2: The scene quickly becomes chaotic. A bailiff orders people in

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Speaker 2: the courtroom to take their seats as young thug wearing

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Speaker 2: a COVID nineteen face mask, a gray V neck sweater

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Speaker 2: with a red tie, and a set of headphones, lifts

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Speaker 2: his gaze up from the desk in front of him

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Speaker 2: and starts looking around. He's got a puzzled expression on

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Speaker 2: his face. One of the YSL defendants, Christian Appinger, rises

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Speaker 2: in the back of the courtroom and starts protesting. Max Shart,

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Speaker 2: an attorney representing defendant Chen and Stillwell, urges Eppinger to

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Speaker 2: calm down. Judge r Old Glanville's chair sits empty on

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Speaker 2: the bench, but everyone else can hear more screams from

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Speaker 2: the holding cell and more outbursts from the defendants. The

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Speaker 2: bailiffs surround Debinger and another defendant, Cordarius Dorsey, who also

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Speaker 2: stands up in response to the screams. They are cuffed

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Speaker 2: and arrested. At their own trial then led through the

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Speaker 2: same door leading to the holding cell where r Dalius

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Speaker 2: Ryan low Rod is screaming. Proceedings are halted and the

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Speaker 2: courtroom is cleared. I find were Dailius Ryan's defense attorney

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Speaker 2: Angela to Williams in the hallway amid the confusion. What

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Speaker 2: the fucker's up? I mean, I don't even we don't know.

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Speaker 1: My claim was just screaming.

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Speaker 2: In the vacuum of an explanation for little Rod's removal

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Speaker 2: from court, and it screams from the holding cell. Tempers

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Speaker 2: were running hot and theories were being formed in real time.

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Speaker 4: They're doing that on purpose to show, Oh, these people

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Speaker 4: aren't bad, look what they're doing.

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Speaker 5: They did it as a show.

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Speaker 2: But who the hell are they showing it for, because.

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Speaker 4: To show that they're being disruptive, Our clients are not disruptive.

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Speaker 4: You were in there, nobody was being disruptive.

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Speaker 2: Shennon still Wills defense attorney Max Sharp steps forward.

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Speaker 6: I would just like to know if the press was

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Speaker 6: called hours before the hearing to pre plan one of

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Speaker 6: our clients, that's something pulled out of the court house.

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Speaker 7: I'm not blaming the press.

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Speaker 2: I understand that a member of the district attorney's staff

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Speaker 2: said I shouldn't be in the court today without being

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Speaker 2: specific about it.

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Speaker 7: So it sounds like the District Attorney's office was planning

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Speaker 7: something to have Miss d William's client forcefully taken out

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Speaker 7: of the courtroom in front of the press and making

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Speaker 7: separating him from his attorney, who obviously cares very much

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Speaker 7: about him and is in tears right now. And that's

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Speaker 7: the way we're conducting this truck that infuriates me, not

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Speaker 7: because I'm an attorney, because I am an intern.

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Speaker 8: And that's not the way we're supposed to.

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Speaker 4: Be doing this, and they're.

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Speaker 7: Not supposed to kick you all out of the court.

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Speaker 6: All we want is spare truck.

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Speaker 5: Can't be fair.

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Speaker 1: I'm George Cheaty and I'm Christina Lee. This is King Slime,

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Speaker 1: the prosecution of young thug and myself.

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Speaker 2: The first time I walked into Fulton County District Attorney

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Speaker 2: Fannie Willis's offices was in May of twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 2: It was months after she had been elected, and the

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Speaker 2: first thing I noticed was that the hallways were stacked

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Speaker 2: eye high with cardboard filing boxes. They were seriously everywhere.

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Speaker 2: Each box had criminal cases in it, and those boxes

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Speaker 2: were a little representation of how those cases were piling up,

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Speaker 2: as if the space itself was slowly being swallowed by paperwork.

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Speaker 1: But when we show up recently to interview Willis, her

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Speaker 1: two and a half year effort to revamp the office

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Speaker 1: is obvious. No boxes, no clutter. The floor is clear,

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Speaker 1: aside from a giant white and blue circular rug with

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Speaker 1: the scales of justice haloed by her name Fanie T.

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Speaker 1: Willis and the slogan Integrity matters. Willis has hired her

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Speaker 1: own staff up and down the sh chain, promising a

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Speaker 1: new order. And our PR team is composed of wired

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Speaker 1: political operatives who walk us through these now empty hallways

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Speaker 1: to a nondescript meeting room.

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Speaker 2: When d Willis enters the room, she's tailed by a

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Speaker 2: film crew capturing her every move.

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Speaker 9: You know they're filming a documentary.

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Speaker 2: The district attorney in a major city is by nature

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Speaker 2: a powerful position, but Willis's profile has risen much faster

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Speaker 2: and higher because of a particular case that happens to

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Speaker 2: fall in her jurisdiction. Let me ask you a question

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Speaker 2: you probably can't answer. Are you going to indicte Donald Trump?

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Speaker 10: Do you know I'm not going to answer that, but

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Speaker 10: you had to ask.

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Speaker 2: I got to ask it. Literally, as we were recording

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Speaker 2: this episode, Fannie Willis's office called me to tell me

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Speaker 2: I had been subpoened to testify in front of the

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Speaker 2: grand jury because I managed to discover the accused fake

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Speaker 2: electors trying to do their thing at the state capitol

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Speaker 2: in December of twenty twenty. I guess she answered that

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Speaker 2: question early for us anyway. Former President Donald Trump's quote

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Speaker 2: perfect call to Georgia Secretary of State Brad Rafitsberger actually

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Speaker 2: took place in the day before Willis started her first term.

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Speaker 2: Between the Trump fake elector's indictment, they sell and WIFN

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Speaker 2: trials and all the everyday cases swirling around, it's a lot.

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Speaker 2: How are you going to handle all of this stuff?

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Speaker 2: Like It's just it seems like a lot of moving

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Speaker 2: parts right now.

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Speaker 10: I mean, there are a lot of moving parts.

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Speaker 9: I can't deny that I have a very complex job

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Speaker 9: that involves a lot of very complex issues. But I'm

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Speaker 9: capable of handling those issues. We do them every day,

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Speaker 9: one day at a time. I'm probably giving a little

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Speaker 9: bit of too much of my life up to this,

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Speaker 9: but this is my dream job.

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Speaker 10: People look at me like I'm crazy. This was my dream.

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Speaker 9: God plans different dreams and different people, and this was

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Speaker 9: my dream. From this perch, I can impact so many things.

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Speaker 9: It's important the work that we're doing, so I guess

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Speaker 9: I'm saying I like living a life that has meaning.

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Speaker 1: Willis says she approaches the job simply by working her

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Speaker 1: eyes off.

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Speaker 9: I was emailing people at one o'clock this morning. I

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Speaker 9: slept from about one to five. You know, I got

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Speaker 9: in a car to get to my first appointment. To me,

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Speaker 9: it's worth it. I wouldn't have it any other way.

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Speaker 9: I'm gonna do it as long as I can do it.

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Speaker 9: My plan was to spend this first term kind of

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Speaker 9: correcting all the things that I thought went wrong. I

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Speaker 9: hope to spend my next two terms really putting my

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Speaker 9: mark on this and making sure that people know that

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Speaker 9: the DA's office is here to serve you.

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Speaker 1: Willis credits her father for instilling this tireless work ethic

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Speaker 1: in her.

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Speaker 9: I was raised by a criminal defense attorney. I think

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Speaker 9: I've become my father in this sense.

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Speaker 1: She is the daughter of a prominent civil rights attorney

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Speaker 1: who was also a black panther.

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Speaker 9: I tell my father that he had child abuse because

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Speaker 9: he used to have me put together his files. This

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Speaker 9: files contained that people, and I was like, you know,

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Speaker 9: that's probably child abuse.

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Speaker 10: Probably was not appropriate for an eight year old.

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Speaker 1: Willis was born in Inglewood, California, attended Howard University, and

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Speaker 1: stayed in Atlanta after getting her law degree at Emory,

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Speaker 1: working for the District Attorney's office as a prosecutor for

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Speaker 1: nearly two decades.

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Speaker 9: I left the District Attorney's office to run for judge.

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Speaker 9: Got forty nine percent of the vote right, then got

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Speaker 9: to a runoff and got forty four percent of the

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Speaker 9: vote and lost. Really spent some time because I went

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Speaker 9: into my own retirement with money. I didn't have to

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Speaker 9: try to make that a success. And I had conversations

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Speaker 9: with God to say, like, you know what you're doing right,

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Speaker 9: Like I did everything I knew how to do, and

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Speaker 9: why didn't this work out for me? But I had

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Speaker 9: sense enough to say, like what is your plan? And

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Speaker 9: I'm not going to tell you like I heard some

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Speaker 9: voice because I didn't hear any voice. That's what was

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Speaker 9: fustrating about it. But the very next day people started

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Speaker 9: calling me, will you represent me? I'm like, wait, minute.

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Speaker 9: I'm exhausted. I haven't slept, I haven't rebounded yet.

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Speaker 1: Willis went into private practice defending clients in criminal cases.

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Speaker 9: That was an excellent experience because that had me in

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Speaker 9: Georgia prisons, had me talking to defendants, It had me

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Speaker 9: making sure that I advocated for people.

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Speaker 10: I think that was part of God's plan.

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Speaker 9: He needed me to have that experience before allowing me

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Speaker 9: to be in this position.

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Speaker 1: She then served as the chief judge of Georgia's Judicial

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Speaker 1: Qualifications Commission, a group that oversees and prosecutes judges in

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Speaker 1: the event of malfeasance.

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Speaker 9: I'm one of the very few African Americans that's ever

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Speaker 9: had the chance to do that and hold judges accountable

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Speaker 9: one I'm very, very proud and very humble that I

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Speaker 9: was able to have that experience.

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Speaker 1: In twenty nineteen, she became chief judge for South Fulton,

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Speaker 1: a metro Atlantic city of one hundred thousand residents.

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Speaker 9: And then again I got to watch the criminal justice

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Speaker 9: system from a different perch.

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Speaker 1: It was in twenty twenty that she says she started

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Speaker 1: getting calls to run for District Attorney.

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Speaker 9: And I'm thinking, I don't want to run for DA.

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Speaker 9: I'm making a little bit of money right now. I

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Speaker 9: got this cushy job as a judge. I go sit

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Speaker 9: up here and pay me six figures to do it.

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Speaker 9: Plus I can take clients like, why would I want

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Speaker 9: to do anything other than this right here?

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Speaker 10: This is a good life bus.

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Speaker 9: Something nagged on me, mainly people right in the community

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Speaker 9: saying no, we really need you, We need you to

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Speaker 9: come about at this time and to do this. And

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Speaker 9: all of those experiences were needed so that I would

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Speaker 9: be equipped for this job. So the eighteen years as

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Speaker 9: a prosecutor that wasn't enough. It was the needing to

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Speaker 9: go into Georgia prisons to relate to criminal defendants, to

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Speaker 9: help them. And you know, when I'm an advocate for them,

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Speaker 9: I'm as much as an advocate for my client as

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Speaker 9: I am for the state.

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Speaker 2: Back when Willis was campaigning to replace Paul Howard in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty, violence was becoming an increasingly worrisome problem in Atlanta.

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Speaker 11: Twenty twenty will go down as a year violent crime

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Speaker 11: ravaged Atlanta and other major cities across our countries.

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Speaker 6: Homicides in Atlanta increase sixty two percent year to year.

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Speaker 1: We are shooting each other up on our streets.

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Speaker 2: People all across the city are frustrated with all the crime,

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Speaker 2: frightened of it, and demanding action to stop it. The

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Speaker 2: media does a poor job of explaining crime to people.

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Speaker 2: Most folks think crime has been rising for most of

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Speaker 2: their lives because murder dominates newscasts and social media feeds.

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Speaker 12: Atlanta homicides had aggravated, assults of gunfire erupted.

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Speaker 13: Thirty one people injured, and at least five people kill

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Speaker 13: or all violent crime.

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Speaker 11: And biking crime in this wave of violent never seen

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Speaker 11: crime in every area of Atlanta like it is right

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Speaker 11: now the line.

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Speaker 2: Up through twenty nineteen. Violent crime had been mostly falling

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Speaker 2: across America for about twenty five years, including Atlanta, and

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Speaker 2: then it started rising. It was happening in most large cities,

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Speaker 2: and Atlanta got the worst of it. Nationally, the homicide

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Speaker 2: rate increased by about thirty percent in twenty twenty. It

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Speaker 2: was the biggest one year increase in at least one

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Speaker 2: hundred years. Atlanta's homicide rate rose about twice as much

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Speaker 2: fifty nine percent, from ninety nine people killed in twenty

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Speaker 2: nineteen to one hundred and fifty seven in twenty twenty.

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Speaker 2: Police nationwide tend to attribute the twenty twenty murder spike

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Speaker 2: to something you may have heard of.

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Speaker 14: We know in twenty twenty a lot of things happened

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Speaker 14: from trails of the Ferguson effect, as they call it.

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Speaker 2: That's Antonio Long, a deputy Chief Investigator with the Fulton

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Speaker 2: County District Attorney's Office. The Ferguson effect is a reference

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Speaker 2: to the shooting of Michael Brown and Ferguson, Missouri, near

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Speaker 2: Saint Louis in twenty fourteen, the rise of the Black

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Speaker 2: Lives Matter movement and the police response to that.

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Speaker 14: Some of the things that happen with police brutality in

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Speaker 14: twenty twenty during the pandemic that led to protests, some

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Speaker 14: of the challenges with law enforcement and communities. Some of

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Speaker 14: the stances on both sides of the isle in terms

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Speaker 14: of police presence and police activity. Some of that have

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Speaker 14: caused police officers to respond differently for fear of retaliation

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Speaker 14: or what may happen to them if they respond, and

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Speaker 14: depend on how they responded. So we know a lot

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Speaker 14: of those things played part into some of the things

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Speaker 14: that took place to increase crime.

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Speaker 2: I started looking closely at why crime arose in Atlanta

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty one. In Atlanta, policing problems definitely.

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Speaker 13: Contributed dozens of Atlanta police officers calling out for a

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Speaker 13: third straight day.

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Speaker 2: Now cops here basically went on strike for a while

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Speaker 2: after the former DA charged two officers with murder for

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Speaker 2: shooting at UI suspect Rayshard Brooks dead after fighting with him.

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Speaker 9: The sick out or the so called blue flu beginning

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Speaker 9: right after the Fulton County DA said he was charging

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Speaker 9: two officers in Rayshard Brooks's death.

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Speaker 2: But violent crime started to curve upwards a few weeks

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Speaker 2: before the protests began in Atlanta, just as the pandemic

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Speaker 2: lockdowns and associated job losses started to threaten people's livelihod

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Speaker 2: Atlanta hasn't entrenched any quality problem that drives crime even

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Speaker 2: in the best years. Mixed that with the state's scant

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Speaker 2: mental health resources and very loose gun laws and the

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Speaker 2: cocktail turns Molotov by the Rayshard Brooks protests and the

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Speaker 2: blue flew sick out. But where others saw chaos, Willis

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Speaker 2: saw a pattern. So when she became Fulton County's first

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Speaker 2: female district attorney in twenty twenty, gang violence became her

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Speaker 2: top priority.

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Speaker 9: I remember when we first took office, We're screaming from

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Speaker 9: the top of the heels that there's a gang problem.

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Speaker 9: And people were really actually kind of treating us like

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Speaker 9: we were crazy. Right, there's a gang problem in la

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Speaker 9: there's a gang problem in Chicago. But they did not

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Speaker 9: want to admit that there was a gang problem right

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Speaker 9: here in Atlanta.

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Speaker 10: But we kept talking about.

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Speaker 9: Facts that I knew to be true because I knew

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Speaker 9: crime waves.

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Speaker 10: I knew that one.

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Speaker 9: Important person got killed, and then we get a gang

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Speaker 9: war for several years.

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Speaker 1: And the ys All trial. That one important person is

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Speaker 1: Donovan Thomas.

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Speaker 2: We're finding that Donovan Thomas is super important. Peanut, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you had an interaction with his family early in your career.

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Speaker 2: Earlier in your career, can you tell us about.

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Speaker 9: That, because we have an ongoing case where I'm sure

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Speaker 9: you're aware he is the center of that case. I

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Speaker 9: won't speak to that. I will speak to this. The

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Speaker 9: internet is always very interesting. I have seen speculation where

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Speaker 9: I have something more than a professional relationship with that

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Speaker 9: family that is not true. What you will find, though,

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Speaker 9: is the ethics of my administration. What I insist on

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Speaker 9: from everyone is that everyone is entitled to some dignity

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Speaker 9: and value. And I bring that up because sometimes people

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Speaker 9: that sometimes have made bad choices, or have done the

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Speaker 9: wrong thing, or from certain zip codes right, or let's

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Speaker 9: just hit it on its head. African Americans, impoverished, uneducated

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Speaker 9: aren't treated with the same level of respect and dignity.

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Speaker 9: And so the interaction that I had with them, or

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Speaker 9: I'll have with any family, no matter where they come from,

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Speaker 9: is always going to be the same, and that is

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Speaker 9: that we're gonna make sure that we treat people with respect.

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Speaker 1: Willis has to be careful. She's become a high profile figure,

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Speaker 1: not just in Atlanta, but nationwide. She's been profiled in

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Speaker 1: scores of national media outlets and can deliver a hell

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Speaker 1: of a sound bite. But the Yoel indictment is an

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Speaker 1: active case, and we were granted this interview with an

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Speaker 1: understanding that da Willis will not be able to directly

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Speaker 1: discuss the Yel trial, but of course we try anyway.

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Speaker 9: As you know, I have an active case going on,

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Speaker 9: so I'm gonna not comment. I don't even know what

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Speaker 9: case you're looking at.

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Speaker 10: Now.

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Speaker 9: You know, I'm not gonna comment on this, but I'm

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Speaker 9: gonna let you ask the whole question.

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Speaker 2: Even if she can't get specific, there's still plenty to

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Speaker 2: talk about. What we're most interested in is our offices

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Speaker 2: brought approach to prosecuting gang violence and all of the

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Speaker 2: comp iplicated social, cultural, and economic issues swirling around those prosecutions.

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Speaker 2: Coming back to this earlier press conferences where you were

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Speaker 2: talking about gangs being responsible for seventy five to eighty

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Speaker 2: percent of violent crime in the city of Atlanta.

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Speaker 9: I've made no secret about it, nor any apology that

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Speaker 9: as the District Attorney of Fulton County, my number one

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Speaker 9: focus is targeting gangs and there's a reason for that.

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Speaker 9: They are committing conservatively seventy five to eighty percent of

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Speaker 9: all of the violent crime that we are seeing within

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Speaker 9: our community, and so they have to be rooted out

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Speaker 9: of our community.

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Speaker 2: How do you know it's seventy five to eighty percent.

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Speaker 9: I think the stats that were depending on are actually low.

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Speaker 9: What we are talking about when we tell those numbers

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Speaker 9: are self identifying people that have already gone into the

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Speaker 9: penal system, and they're identifying actually as gangs, or we're

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Speaker 9: finding their mail or their phone things, so we're not

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Speaker 9: hitting a lot of people. The one thing that is

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Speaker 9: unique though about this group is it really doesn't count

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Speaker 9: if you're in a gang if you don't claim it right.

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Speaker 9: And so you will find and I know your background

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Speaker 9: that even in police interviews, you've seen it where they'll

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Speaker 9: tell you what's set there from they are proud to

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Speaker 9: declare it, or they have a tattoo on that says it,

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Speaker 9: or they're claiming it through emojis or through direct language

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Speaker 9: on social media.

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Speaker 10: And so we're just talking about those that we know.

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Speaker 1: As we mentioned several times on this show, the Yicel

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Speaker 1: trial utilizes the State's Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act,

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Speaker 1: known as RICO, which means the defendants are tried together

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Speaker 1: as a group and charges can be applied to everyone

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Speaker 1: proven to be associated with that group. Willis's most famous

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Speaker 1: one was in the RICO trial against several Atlanta school

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Speaker 1: District teachers who are convicted of altering students answers on

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Speaker 1: standardized tests.

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Speaker 9: So let me tell you why I like RICO. As

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Speaker 9: a prosecutor. What I have found is that jurors are

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Speaker 9: extremely intelligent. They may be lay people, they may not

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Speaker 9: be trained in the law, but they're intelligent. As your

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Speaker 9: Grandmama said, they got that, just good old fashioned common sense.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 9: What is so special about RICO to me and why

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Speaker 9: it is a tool that I have made sure that

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Speaker 9: my staff is trained on that they know that it's there,

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Speaker 9: is because it allows you to tell.

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Speaker 10: The entire story.

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Speaker 9: So often when prosecutors are prosecuting a case, they are

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Speaker 9: not able to tell the entire story and it typically

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Speaker 9: goes past this one incident. Let me give you an

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Speaker 9: example that's kind of off the gang world but applies

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Speaker 9: actually sadly.

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Speaker 10: In human trafficking.

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Speaker 9: Oftentimes, the police miss will pick up a young lady

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Speaker 9: right for prostitution, a misdemeanor, and if the police do

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Speaker 9: not sit down and do a good investigation or a

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Speaker 9: good interview of that young lady, what you often find

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Speaker 9: when you just peel back just a little bit is

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Speaker 9: that she's working for somebody. That's thing number one, right,

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Speaker 9: And that not that she's working for somebody, but it's

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Speaker 9: her and three friends or at least now what have

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Speaker 9: become acquaintances working for them. And then what we found

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Speaker 9: is if you peel back a little bit, more gangs

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Speaker 9: have really gotten into this, which is in a diabolical way.

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Speaker 9: Smart right, you sell dope, you sell it one time

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Speaker 9: that your profit is gone, but a woman you can

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Speaker 9: use her over and over and over again to keep

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Speaker 9: that profit going. And so we see them branching off

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Speaker 9: into that very quickly. That becomes a rico, right because

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Speaker 9: then what that money that they're making can tie in

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Speaker 9: to other things. Same person who is pimping those girls

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Speaker 9: might have some young boys in the street robbing cars,

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Speaker 9: and it's an organization that's doing it, And so why

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Speaker 9: shouldn't we not use the tool to tell the entire

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Speaker 9: story of all the harm that this organization is doing

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Speaker 9: to our community.

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Speaker 1: The Georgia Street Gained Terrorists and Prevention Act was first

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Speaker 1: passed in nineteen ninety two, but the original law was

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Speaker 1: so vague that it was never used. As gang violence

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Speaker 1: began to escalate in the state, however, lawmakers reformed the

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Speaker 1: law in nineteen ninety eight. A new law was passed

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Speaker 1: that defined terms like criminal streaking and pattern of criminal activity.

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Speaker 1: Penalties were increased for juveniles forfeiture at property rights were

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Speaker 1: given to law enforcement, and nuisance claims allowed officials to

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Speaker 1: shut down businesses. Treble damages, which means settlements can be tripled,

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Speaker 1: were also enacted when connected with gang crimes, and in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, Georgia Governor Brian Kemp signed laws that

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Speaker 1: created mandatory minimum sentences of five years to a maximum

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Speaker 1: of twenty five years for anyone convicted of a gang crime,

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Speaker 1: and additional ten years are added for anyone convicted of

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Speaker 1: recruiting minors into a gang. One of the men who

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Speaker 1: helped write these laws works in Willis's office.

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Speaker 3: Was a very flexible statute and it can be used

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Speaker 3: against any group that functions as a criminal enterprise at

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Speaker 3: Georgia Street Gang Terrorism and Prevention Act is a narrower

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Speaker 3: version of RICO four Gangs.

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Speaker 1: Michael Carlson is the Executive District Attorney of the Major

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Speaker 1: Crimes Unit for the Fulton County District Attorney's Office.

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Speaker 3: There is a a federal racketeering laws on the books

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Speaker 3: for decades. Of course, they sat essentially dormant for years

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Speaker 3: before they started being used federally, and once they started

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Speaker 3: being used for the purpose they were designed for, and

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Speaker 3: that was to take down Cozenoustra, essentially within less than

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Speaker 3: two decades, Cozenoustra was effectively ended in this country. Well,

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Speaker 3: there's a similar pattern has existed with anti gang laws,

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Speaker 3: and Georgia's in particular, and it can be done community

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Speaker 3: by community. When arresting and charging and sentencing under anti

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Speaker 3: gang law goes up, gang crime and recruiting in those

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Speaker 3: areas tends to go down. And when gang arresting, indicting,

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Speaker 3: and sentencing goes down, gang crime and recruiting tends to

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Speaker 3: go up. And that's not only a Georgia phenomenon.

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Speaker 1: Currently, state officials say there are seventy thousand gang members statewide.

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Speaker 1: Authorities have been pointing to that number for years. Here's

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Speaker 1: Acting District Attorney of Cobb County John Melvin back in

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Speaker 1: twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 8: In this state, we have over seventy thousand gang members,

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Speaker 8: and in our prison systems documented gang members exceed thirteen thousand.

441
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 8: As album is not even a crisis, that's an occupation.

442
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 8: I mean we're literally being occupied by a foreign army.

443
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 1: Carlson doesn't believe this talk is hyperbole. In fact, he

444
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,679
Speaker 1: prosecuted that case Melbourne was talking about when he was

445
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:53,120
Speaker 1: an assistant DA in Cobb.

446
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,119
Speaker 3: Now, just imagine for every one of those gang members

447
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 3: that they recruited one more gang member and committed one

448
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 3: crime per month or per year and then you see

449
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,920
Speaker 3: where we get the numbers from that about the SI

450
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 3: scope and magnitude of gang victimization and recruiting.

451
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 2: I will note that there are about fifty thousand people

452
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 2: in Georgia's prisons today, and the head of the state's

453
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 2: Gang Investigation Association says fifteen thousand of those inmates claim

454
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 2: gang affiliations often simply is a matter of survival. Look,

455
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,640
Speaker 2: there are about ten point six million people who live

456
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 2: in Georgia. Half a mail, that's five million, about twenty

457
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 2: five percent of that five million, or between the ages

458
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:49,680
Speaker 2: of fifteen and thirty six, that's one point three million,

459
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 2: more than ninety percent of gang members or men and

460
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 2: boys in that age range. Gang cops want to argue

461
00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:00,679
Speaker 2: that one out of eighteen of those people are active

462
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:05,400
Speaker 2: gang members. And that's before accounting for poverty or location.

463
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 2: Almost everyone in a gang is in the bottom thirty

464
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,680
Speaker 2: percent of the income distribution. Now you're down to one

465
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 2: in six. I'm not buying that. I don't believe that

466
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 2: number is accurate or even possible. I think it's inflated.

467
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 2: Georgia's gang law requires prosecutors to prove three things. First,

468
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 2: they have to prove that a group of people is

469
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 2: a criminal street gang as it is defined by the law.

470
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 2: Prosecutors can use evidence of a common name, common identifying signs, symbols, tattoos, graffiti, clothes,

471
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 2: or other distinguishing characteristics, common activities, common customs, common behaviors.

472
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 2: But the most important part is that they have to

473
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 2: prove they plan and commit crimes as a group. Christopher

474
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:02,920
Speaker 2: Sperry is Carlson's number two. He's the deputy district attorney

475
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:04,160
Speaker 2: in charge of the gang unit.

476
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 12: Being a gang is not criminal until they start doing

477
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 12: criminal gang activity. So those three individuals that may go

478
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 12: ahead and be throwing up hand signs we're in the

479
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 12: same clothes. They could go out and commit an armed robbery,

480
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 12: and that armed robbery is not yet gang activity. Because

481
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,439
Speaker 12: we haven't established that pattern or that history of the

482
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:28,680
Speaker 12: gang itself. We don't have to show that these individuals

483
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 12: themselves committed that crime, but we do have to show

484
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:33,440
Speaker 12: that this is a criminal street gang.

485
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 1: In the YSL case, the indictment describes the gang by

486
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 1: its use of YSL as a symbol flagging with green

487
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: or red bandanas, the wipe your nose hand sign, which

488
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: prosecutors say symbolizes killing someone and the use of the

489
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,679
Speaker 1: word slat an acronym for slime love all the time.

490
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 1: But most of the indictment is about the crimes members

491
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 1: are accused of committing to show that it's a criminal

492
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 1: enterprise and not just a music label. Then prosecutors have

493
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 1: to prove that someone is a member of that gang.

494
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 1: In this social media age, this couldn't be easier.

495
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 12: I'll tell you right now. Social media is, without a doubt,

496
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 12: the best function for being able to establish association with

497
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 12: a criminal streaking.

498
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: The y cell indictment is peppered with references to Instagram

499
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 1: and YouTube videos showing the defendants throwing up hand signs,

500
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 1: carrying weapons, and making threats. Finally, prosecutors have to prove

501
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,680
Speaker 1: someone committed a crime to further the gang's interests. There's

502
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,360
Speaker 1: a set of crimes that qualify, which can be as

503
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: trivial as graffiti and as serious as murder. One knock

504
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 1: on gang prosecutions is that they're overbroad. Find three kids

505
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 1: on a street corner, call them a criminal streak gang,

506
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 1: and lock them up for an extra five years for

507
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 1: tagging the gas station. Carlson says that's not how Fulton

508
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 1: County is trying to do business.

509
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 3: Here is law enforcement and prosecution's attention can get narrowed

510
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 3: to a smaller group of people, to it those who

511
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 3: are committing gang viole ones. Then that is able to

512
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 3: allow us to then be more freed up for what

513
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 3: would be more colloquially called criminal justice type reform measures

514
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 3: for other offenders. And not to say that those would

515
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 3: be would not apply to gang members, Certainly they do.

516
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 3: Certainly many people have been appropriately probated under our street

517
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 3: gang prosecution laws. So I just wanted to make it

518
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 3: clear that when that focus gets narrowed to gang crime

519
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 3: and gang recruiting, we get those volumeized and outsized results

520
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 3: for public safety on the prosecution of relatively speaking, very

521
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 3: few people.

522
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 2: Another doc is how it allows all kinds of evidence

523
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 2: that could be considered prejudicial in standard cases. Normally, evidence

524
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 2: of bad character isn't allowed because a jury isn't judging

525
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 2: your character, it's judging whether you committed a crime. But

526
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 2: gang cases can be a little different because prosecutors have

527
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 2: to prove that you are in a gang, and the

528
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 2: kind of evidence they need for that might also make

529
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 2: someone look bad. A tattoo of a gun on your

530
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 2: arm might not be admissible if it's just something you

531
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 2: got to look cool. A tattoo of a tear drop

532
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 2: under your eye in a gang case might be admissible

533
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 2: if a prosecutor can show that the gang gets these tattoos.

534
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 2: Whenever someone commits a murder.

535
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 3: You know, you've got the fundamental rule of relevance that

536
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 3: applies in court. It does, this piece of evidence, whatever

537
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 3: it is, makes something more or less likely to have

538
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 3: occurred in the case. You know, essentially that's the rule,

539
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 3: something material more or less likely to have occurred.

540
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 2: And then if the.

541
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 3: Evidence is relevant, well then it's presumptively admissible under another

542
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 3: rule that we have, unless the Constitution or another or

543
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 3: a specific rule or statute keeps it out. So the

544
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 3: onus is really on the people saying, well, this is bad,

545
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 3: I don't want it, in which they're not a rule

546
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 3: of evidence quote, I don't like it that doesn't fall

547
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 3: under a Georgia or federal evidence statute.

548
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 1: Ultimately, the DA's office offers one overarching argument for their methods.

549
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 1: Sperry says, it's that fewer people in Atlanta are getting killed.

550
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 12: There is a reason why the homicide rate has plummeted,

551
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 12: and George, I know that you have covered this. I

552
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 12: believe the last time I saw on Sunday, we are

553
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 12: thirty seven percent below where we were this time last year.

554
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 12: And we also have to compare that to what are

555
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 12: other cities at other cities were at twelve point five percent.

556
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 12: So what is it that Atlanta is doing that we

557
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 12: are three times reduced in relation to the homicides. And

558
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 12: not only that, but when you actually look at what

559
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 12: the homicides are, I don't see those interstate shootings that

560
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 12: we saw in twenty twenty one and twenty twenty two.

561
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 12: The homicides are much more domestic than they are gang

562
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 12: and so why is that? Well one to aggressive prosecution

563
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 12: under the Gang Act number two, the police are actually

564
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:03,959
Speaker 12: in investigating this from the outset as gang cases. They

565
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 12: are trained and identifying and collaborating with our office and

566
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 12: making sure that we are taking those gang warrants to

567
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 12: begin with. So if any of those defendants are out

568
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 12: on bond, it criminalizes or makes it a condition to

569
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 12: their bond that they're not to continue to associate. You

570
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 12: choke out the oxygen from the gang itself by making

571
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 12: it so that way they can't continue.

572
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 1: To collaborate, but even da Willis will attest to the

573
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 1: fact that policing and prosecutions are not a long term fix.

574
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 9: We cannot arrest our way and we cannot prosecute our

575
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 9: way out of the gang problem.

576
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 10: That's going to fail.

577
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 9: So what we have to do is make sure that

578
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:44,479
Speaker 9: we take as many children away from thinking that this

579
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 9: is sexy and this is attractive and leading them down

580
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 9: different paths.

581
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 10: And so you have to have a double edged sword.

582
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 9: I hope that you know for gang members, I am

583
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 9: hated and feared because I am not going to apologize

584
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 9: for bringing gang warrants or educating the police on how

585
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 9: to bring gang warrant and for prosecuting people that decide

586
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 9: to get into that life. At the same time, it's

587
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:09,479
Speaker 9: important that we do activities that let children know this

588
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 9: only leads you to a casket or a jail cell.

589
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 10: That's it.

590
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 9: That's not sexy, that's not someplace that you want to

591
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 9: end up being. People do not enjoy that experience, and

592
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 9: you have so much potential, and there's so many other things.

593
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 10: That you can do.

594
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 2: To the wier. Sale defendants are already serving life sentences,

595
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 2: one of them facing a racketeering charge in the trial

596
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 2: is Rae Dlius Ryan. He was fifteen years old when

597
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 2: he and DeMont Blaylock shot a man dead in a

598
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 2: stone Blue Dodge Charger.

599
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 15: Police say that just before five am they got a

600
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 15: call about shots fired here. The person they found shot

601
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 15: dead was a fifteen year old boy.

602
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 1: Khaliff Adams, accused of trying to kill wife and Lucci

603
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 1: in jail, is also serving a life sentence for twenty

604
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 1: sixteen murder. The outcome of theyl case will change little

605
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 1: about that, Yet there's stories that become clear examples of

606
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 1: how this sweeping indictment has created chaos downstream.

607
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:18,280
Speaker 2: Just two weeks into the trial, on January nineteenth, Adams

608
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,280
Speaker 2: slit a percocet into Young Thug's hand.

609
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 1: One of the defendants in the Yasel trial, is accused

610
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 1: of passing drugs to Atlanta rapper Young Thug in the

611
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:27,359
Speaker 1: middle of the courtroom.

612
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 2: Deputy's caught the pass, searched him and found more drugs.

613
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 2: Young Thug wasn't charged, but the incident went viral on

614
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 2: social media and set a tone for the months to come.

615
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 10: It wasn't even a discreet handlef.

616
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 1: It was like, yo, my man, let's just slap me some

617
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:46,360
Speaker 1: skin and just clearly handed him something.

618
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 9: If I needed a percocet that bad, I would just

619
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 9: have to go all the way out with it.

620
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,399
Speaker 2: Don't pass it to me, just kiss me. It's bitt

621
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:53,959
Speaker 2: it in my mouth.

622
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 1: Four days later, on January twenty third, lil Rod and

623
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 1: sheriffs Deputy Morris kandaco I got into a brawl in

624
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:02,959
Speaker 1: the back of a patrol vehicle.

625
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 13: While waiting to be transported from the jail to the courthouse.

626
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:07,839
Speaker 13: Ryan is accused of spitting on the floor of the van,

627
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 13: and when told that he would have to clean it up,

628
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 13: investigators say Ryan told them, I'm not cleaning it up,

629
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:14,359
Speaker 13: exploit it.

630
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 1: Kandakai's report says that Ryan spat in his face and

631
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 1: then fought as he was being pulled from the police vehicle,

632
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 1: but during the fight, Kandokai didn't activate his body camera

633
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 1: as required. Lol Rod's attorney, Angela to Williams, fought a

634
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 1: complete citing quote contusions on lil Rod's body from being

635
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,280
Speaker 1: dragged from the patrol car to a nearby sidewalk.

636
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,360
Speaker 4: By client said, hewits because he was upset about something,

637
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 4: and they took that as him spitting.

638
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 10: When they told him to get up the van.

639
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 4: They just grabbed him before he had a chance by

640
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 4: his legs, dragged him out. His head hit the van

641
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:48,359
Speaker 4: and they dragged him out some more.

642
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 10: He actually hit the sidewalk.

643
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 1: Kannakai was suspended. He had been previously fired from a

644
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 1: local police department for a similar violation in twenty twenty.

645
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 2: On January thirty, first, three wires ol Code defendits were

646
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,800
Speaker 2: k of knifing another person held at Fulton County Jail,

647
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 2: DeMarcus Bussy. Those defendants are Demon Blaylock, Christian Eppinger, and

648
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 2: LITL Rott.

649
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 11: According to a report, a detention officer told Apinger to

650
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 11: get away from the other inmate, and he then pulled

651
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 11: out a shank and stabbed the inmate in the chest.

652
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 2: Fulton County Jail has had a massive security problem for years,

653
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 2: and it's notorious for being overcrowded, dirty and dangerous rappers

654
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 2: and most people call it Rice Street. The sheriff has

655
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 2: had a difficult time keeping drugs out, and his confiscated

656
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 2: wheelbarrows filled with prison shanks.

657
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 8: A high yield of high risk itdem cell phones and

658
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 8: homemade dives are shanks from the highest security floor in

659
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 8: the Fulton County Jail.

660
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 2: And those shanks are wielded by people with nothing left

661
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 2: to lose but their lives, that is, unless they find

662
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 2: another way out. The Wisehell trial started with twenty eight

663
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 2: defendants in court. There are seven left. Two attorneys representing

664
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 2: defendants Khalif Adams, It's Quarius Mendor became pregnant. Those cases

665
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 2: were separated from the ISL trial.

666
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,320
Speaker 1: Jaden Myrick, who told the courts that he hadn't taken

667
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 1: his psychiatric medication since last December, will not be standing

668
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 1: trial after claiming quote Donald Trump is going to get

669
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 1: me out.

670
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:25,439
Speaker 2: Demon Blaylock was also severed from the YL trial after

671
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 2: falling ill.

672
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,319
Speaker 1: Other defendants will not take the stand and efforts to

673
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 1: save time during the overall trial.

674
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 2: The District Attorney's office says its process and gangcases is

675
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 2: about finding the smallest number of people responsible for the

676
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 2: biggest problems. Leaders get prison time, but underlings they can

677
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,120
Speaker 2: get plea deals to help expedite the trial. Who gets

678
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:47,320
Speaker 2: a plea bargain who doesn't.

679
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 12: So my philosophy when I'm looking at plea recommendations is

680
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 12: oftentimes the first thing I look at is is this

681
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 12: the juvenile and I'm sorry, but you need to understand

682
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 12: oftentimes we're dealing with children. I understand the horrendous crimes,

683
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 12: but you also need to understand what their development is

684
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 12: as well as you know, do they have an opportunity

685
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 12: to have that second chance? But when I'm looking also

686
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 12: at deals, one of the things is not necessarily always

687
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 12: who pulled the trigger, because oftentimes you can remove one

688
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:19,280
Speaker 12: of the people that pulls the trigger and this still happens.

689
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 12: Oftentimes you can remove the person who actually even pulled

690
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:24,359
Speaker 12: the trigger and they'll find someone else to do it.

691
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 12: If you remove that person from the actual incident, does

692
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 12: the crime still happen? And that's really what I get

693
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 12: at is what is the culpability and the age of

694
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:35,720
Speaker 12: the defendants and who can I remove from this equation

695
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 12: and this does not happen.

696
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: One high profile YSL defendant took a plea deal before

697
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 1: the trials started. On December fourteenth, twenty twenty two, attorney

698
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 1: Steve Sadau email journalist a press release on behalf of

699
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 1: his client, defendant, Sergio Kitchens the rapper Gunna. What Gunna

700
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 1: had done was enter an Alford plea. That means while

701
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 1: he acknowledges that the core will likely find him guilty

702
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 1: and that a guilty plea is the swiftest way to

703
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,840
Speaker 1: end his case. He maintains his innocence. He was sentenced

704
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 1: to five years in prison, but was given one year

705
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 1: of credit for time served and the rest of his

706
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 1: sentence was suspended. In his press statement, Gunna was adamant

707
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 1: about how prosecutors had mischaracterized WYSL. It begins quote, when I.

708
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 2: Became affiliated with YSL in twenty sixteen, I did not

709
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 2: consider it a gang, more like a group of people

710
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 2: from Metro Atlanta who had common interests in artistic aspirations.

711
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 2: My focus of YSL was entertainment rap artists who wrote

712
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 2: and performed music that exaggerated and glorified urban life in

713
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 2: the black community.

714
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 1: End quote. Hours after his plea, Gunna left Fulton County Jail,

715
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,360
Speaker 1: pulling the hood of his black sweatshirt over his face.

716
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 11: The Atlanta born rapper Ghanna, whose given name is Sergio Kitchens,

717
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 11: made a deal with prosecutors and walked out of the

718
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 11: Fulton County jail.

719
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: But then the next day the fans found footage for

720
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 1: when Gunna was last in court. The footage is shot

721
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:07,840
Speaker 1: from the courts gallery and show's gonna in jail scrubs,

722
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 1: drab and green sitting next to his attorneys.

723
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 16: I became affiliated with why Cel around twenty and sixteen.

724
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,240
Speaker 5: Is that true as it pertains to U use your case?

725
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 16: Yes, Why Cell is a music label and a game,

726
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 16: and you have personal knowledge that members are associates with

727
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 16: HYL have committee primes in.

728
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 5: Parts of the game. Yes, you were present when.

729
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 16: Law enforcement officers stopped the vehicle in which you were

730
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 16: present along with Jeffrey Williams, where in hydropoton, methamphetamans and

731
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 16: a firearm were recovered.

732
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:53,879
Speaker 5: These items did not belong to you, yes, ma'am.

733
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:59,800
Speaker 16: And do you acknowledge the following stavement I recognize, except

734
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 16: a deep leary bread that my talent and music indirectly

735
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 16: furthered Why sale the game to.

736
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:08,360
Speaker 5: The detriment of my community? Why is sale as a

737
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 5: game must be? Is that your statement or acknowledgment.

738
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 1: Yes, these negotiations for a plea deal cannot be used

739
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 1: against the remaining defendants of the Ysol trial. Seta has

740
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,360
Speaker 1: also tried his best to remind the public that technically

741
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: Gunna still has in cooperated with law enforcement.

742
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,359
Speaker 2: Gunna made it clear and a public statement released by

743
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 2: his attorney that his deal with prosecutors does not require

744
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 2: him to be a prosecution with this against the others.

745
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 1: But because Gunna operates in a music genre that thrives

746
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 1: off this idea of street credibility, no matter how connected

747
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 1: those artists might actually be to that code, his fellow

748
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 1: artists interpreted these negotiations plainly as snitching, offering incriminating evidence

749
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 1: to beliee so he could walk out of Fulton County

750
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 1: jail dinging his own credibility. Willis says that this standard

751
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 1: could not be more disconnected from reality.

752
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 9: Sometimes we will take a plea just to wrap up

753
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:03,360
Speaker 9: that case, to get responsibility and closure for whatever that

754
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 9: situation is, and there's no testimony required. In other cases

755
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 9: it becomes a vital part of proving a codefendite up

756
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 9: and we do get pleased. But it's so interesting you

757
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 9: talk about snitching, because everybody hard right till they sitting

758
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:22,799
Speaker 9: in that seat. And so I've been doing this, I

759
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 9: already said a very very long time.

760
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:26,320
Speaker 10: I personally have tried.

761
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,879
Speaker 9: You know, over one hundred homicides, prosecuted hundreds of them

762
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 9: because of pleas and other resolutions for cases. Literally all

763
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 9: I did for a very very long time. When people

764
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:39,719
Speaker 9: get to sitting in that sneak, more often than not

765
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:45,279
Speaker 9: they snitching because the choice is life or you can

766
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 9: tell what someone else did and what their involvement was.

767
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 9: And so that's real cool to say when you on

768
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 9: social media, But when it's you sitting in there and

769
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 9: your mama and your woman and you got a baby

770
00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:00,399
Speaker 9: on the way, you have all these other responsibility, he says,

771
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:02,400
Speaker 9: a man, you need to tend to. You got to

772
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:05,399
Speaker 9: make grown folk decisions for you and your family, and

773
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 9: so often the decision is I'm going to tell the

774
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 9: truth and wrap this up for me.

775
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 2: People had already been wondering where was Kenneth Copeland Little Woody,

776
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 2: who is targeted for a robbery at Club Crucial in

777
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen. Why wasn't he indicted with the twenty eight

778
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:27,319
Speaker 2: defendants after all that robbery is, according to police and

779
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:30,879
Speaker 2: Chuck c the first domino to fall in this gang war.

780
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 2: Then court paperwork made its way to the internet. Woody

781
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 2: had been talking to cops about gang crimes.

782
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 1: A few months after Gunna left Right Street. A three

783
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 1: and a half hour video of a police interrogation lead

784
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:49,280
Speaker 1: to YouTube. The video is shot from a surveillance camera.

785
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:52,360
Speaker 1: In the tape, a man in a white T shirt,

786
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 1: tan cap, and distressed Cargo Jean sits in a black

787
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 1: and orange chair in a small gray room. He's cuffed

788
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 1: around the ankle right above his timbalands That man is

789
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:06,240
Speaker 1: Kenneth Copeland aka Little Woody.

790
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 2: The video as a date burned in October twenty seven,

791
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one. A woman with long hair wearing all

792
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 2: black sits across for Woody at the table. Her name

793
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:24,840
Speaker 2: is Marissa Vivrito. She's a gang unit investigator with the

794
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 2: Fulton County District Attorney's Office.

795
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:30,920
Speaker 5: Okay, here's your concern. Didn't you have a lawyer.

796
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:31,359
Speaker 7: So we got to make sure.

797
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:33,320
Speaker 5: I don't want to violate any of your writing. I

798
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 5: don't want to do anything with.

799
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:36,760
Speaker 9: Mister Melanie.

800
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 5: Slow your turn right.

801
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 2: Oh it's clear Vivrito and Woody have known each other

802
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 2: for some time. If it's not trust, there's at the

803
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 2: very least rapport between them. Woody has just been brought

804
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 2: in on a gun charge. He and an associate were

805
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 2: pulled over for swerving. Police found a weapon in Woody's

806
00:44:56,600 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 2: car and Ammo in his pocket, neither of which he's

807
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 2: allowed to possess since he's been convicted of a federal gunfelony.

808
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 2: Viverrito tells Woody he's likely headed back.

809
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 1: To jail, but there may be some ways to help them.

810
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 1: She's got to have a conversation with some folks to

811
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 1: see what she can find out.

812
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:21,840
Speaker 17: Please give me one second.

813
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 1: For nearly forty minutes, Lowoodie waits alone in the room.

814
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:28,879
Speaker 1: His only company is a green plastic cup of water.

815
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 1: He mostly just sits there with his arms crossed, occasionally

816
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 1: puts his head on the table, and at one point

817
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 1: he stands to look out the small rectangular window in

818
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:43,239
Speaker 1: the door, though his leg is pulled back toward the

819
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 1: table by the cuffs. By the time Viverito returns to

820
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 1: the room with another officer, Woody has his arms tucked

821
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 1: into his T shirt, trying to warm up, trying to

822
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 1: calm down.

823
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 5: This is one of my partners. That's the Flores.

824
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 4: The department.

825
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 5: First and first, get.

826
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 18: The riding ring silent, and you say.

827
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 2: And we'll be used against you in a court of

828
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:12,320
Speaker 2: Flora's has cop muscles showing through a tight gray T shirt,

829
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 2: black cap, is on backwards. He sits down next to Viverrito.

830
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 2: It's clear right away that these two cops aren't just

831
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 2: interested in why would he had a gun on him?

832
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 5: You had immunition in your pocket. That's a federal for

833
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 5: hard right. So what I'm saying is right, we listen

834
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 5: to me. That's what you're looking at today. At we

835
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:34,839
Speaker 5: can can He cannot make it clear. We cannot offer

836
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 5: you anything.

837
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:38,759
Speaker 17: If you want to tell us, then we can communicate

838
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:41,480
Speaker 17: it to other people, but we cannot do anything.

839
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:45,239
Speaker 2: Vivrito and Flores really want to know what his friends

840
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 2: are up to, friends who, by this point law enforcement

841
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:52,280
Speaker 2: has been watching a gathering information on for nearly a decade.

842
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:58,359
Speaker 2: Friends who like Woody are associated with Yso, but he's

843
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 2: not going to give up that info unless he's promised

844
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:03,520
Speaker 2: he won't go to jail, and he implies he's been

845
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:04,400
Speaker 2: burned before.

846
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 5: You want me to tell you your name and I

847
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 5: can do it. Go ahead at you and do my time.

848
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 5: I always do. You don't always do your time. Did

849
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:13,760
Speaker 5: you did you go to jail for the nut incident?

850
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:15,879
Speaker 5: Did you go to jail with nuts Murner?

851
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:18,319
Speaker 16: I don't do it, okay, So what I'm saying, is

852
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 16: you made him hit because my lawyer told me that

853
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 16: they did talk about any die young.

854
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 5: I want to think I'm sorry. I'm no doubt at jail,

855
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:26,799
Speaker 5: I didn't really go out of death.

856
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:30,760
Speaker 2: It's hard to make out, but what he is insisting

857
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 2: he had nothing to do with Donovan Thomas's death.

858
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:37,240
Speaker 1: But what he does say he's sitting on some valuable

859
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:39,840
Speaker 1: and timely intel. Oh I'm supposed to be killed in

860
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:42,320
Speaker 1: that he claims he knows of a hit that's gonna happen.

861
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 5: I don't know people who are gonna go do it.

862
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:47,319
Speaker 5: I can't get it down. I ain't gonna go to

863
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:51,479
Speaker 5: do it. So y'all get in a head. It's hard

864
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:56,800
Speaker 5: boy gets it. I mean, Lucie's like that ship a

865
00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 5: kid somehow and dads get tighter?

866
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:07,719
Speaker 1: Who kill Shelle kel Is Kelvin Watts, the alleged Englewood

867
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:10,759
Speaker 1: family associate who robbed Woody a club crucial way back

868
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:13,760
Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen, that first Domino.

869
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 5: And Tight who kill who's always been tight? Share kid

870
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 5: and him? He's mad, he's a facially he.

871
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 1: Won't he's mad. He's obsessed with him. He wants him,

872
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 1: is what he says.

873
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 5: There isn't what's second?

874
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:36,799
Speaker 18: You're like, I'm gonna get lost, And he said, who's

875
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:37,319
Speaker 18: tight with.

876
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:40,640
Speaker 1: Shelle wood He looks over at the wall. He knows

877
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:42,799
Speaker 1: the guy he was arrested with is in the next

878
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:43,279
Speaker 1: room over.

879
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:44,440
Speaker 5: He's your friend's not here.

880
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 3: Nobody can hear you.

881
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:50,839
Speaker 5: My friend's not here. We moved him. The version of y'all.

882
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 5: He's thinking, I take him anything. He won't him. He

883
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 5: want him his bed. So you're talking.

884
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:02,840
Speaker 1: About Jeffrey little. Woody nods? What are you saying that

885
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:06,359
Speaker 1: Jeffrey young thug is targeting shell Kell.

886
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 2: Shell Kell and Woody are sworn enemies when this interview

887
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 2: takes place. They've been battling back and forth on Instagram,

888
00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:19,120
Speaker 2: trading barbs and threats. Would Viverrito and Flores tell Woody

889
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 2: the info isn't enough. He offers more.

890
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 5: Single person days and how much dagone gives and how

891
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:40,719
Speaker 5: bay long it's days. Jeffs I'm not.

892
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:45,719
Speaker 2: Saying about Vivrito and Flores aren't moved what. He makes

893
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:49,799
Speaker 2: another offer to call someone with the officers listening in,

894
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:51,719
Speaker 2: ID you.

895
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:53,239
Speaker 5: Plan to get college from day long?

896
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 12: And they hear what I have to say, and I

897
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:58,280
Speaker 12: have to call this person right here in y'all face,

898
00:49:58,719 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 12: what a data day around?

899
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 5: And is y'all hears face? Tell me how he came

900
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:07,640
Speaker 5: home to me a call who the person won't talking about.

901
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 12: I can't for him, and I hate I'm doing it

902
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:12,520
Speaker 12: to him, But I don't think I see you know

903
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 12: some people I don't know somebody who is a young rug.

904
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 5: I didn't single mean.

905
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:23,680
Speaker 1: Eventually, Viverito presses Woody on his relationship with young thug

906
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:26,719
Speaker 1: and why he can't seem to get himself out of

907
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:29,839
Speaker 1: the cycle of crime and violence alleged to be tied

908
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:31,399
Speaker 1: to Why a self Have I.

909
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 5: Had to talk about him ruining your life?

910
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:33,360
Speaker 13: Woody?

911
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:35,359
Speaker 5: How I had to talk about the ruin in your life?

912
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:36,960
Speaker 5: What good has he brought to your life.

913
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:40,239
Speaker 7: That much better? Well, he has ruined your life.

914
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:43,840
Speaker 5: He's rumined with Shannon's life, He's ruined Dee's life.

915
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:47,879
Speaker 17: Pretty much everybody can touches goes to prison, and then

916
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:48,640
Speaker 17: he gets new people.

917
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:50,279
Speaker 5: Y'all are replaceable. Y'all are just posed.

918
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 17: Make no mistake about that, because once y'all in prison,

919
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:55,319
Speaker 17: he started wait, wait a minute, I.

920
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:58,480
Speaker 5: Can't listen to me. Listen, you can tell somebody did

921
00:50:58,520 --> 00:50:59,239
Speaker 5: can't help him.

922
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:02,000
Speaker 17: But there's a lot more information than this. Sudn't They're

923
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:04,920
Speaker 17: gonna have more information than this. Okay, you know, But

924
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 17: what I'm saying is it doesn't work. You're like, oh,

925
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:09,239
Speaker 17: it's maybe go getting out here like like gay you

926
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:11,279
Speaker 17: and have I ever left you out of you?

927
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:12,799
Speaker 2: Have I ever?

928
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:15,960
Speaker 5: I'll tell well, what did I tell you?

929
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:16,880
Speaker 16: Did I tell you that?

930
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 5: It's nothing mag you. I'm going to be upset. I'm

931
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 5: not listening to you take out and talking to you

932
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:23,200
Speaker 5: with that the issue.

933
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 2: But what I'm saying is I have never left you

934
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:29,320
Speaker 2: out here college when we met with Detective Kimberly Underwood

935
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 2: at the Atlanta Police Gang Unit, if if Rito was

936
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:35,280
Speaker 2: with her, you heard from Underwood in the last episode.

937
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 2: So I'm going to ask this and you can tell

938
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 2: me to go to hell if you need to. The

939
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 2: little Woody tape like your I know. I just want

940
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:50,480
Speaker 2: to know first things first, how that man? How how

941
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:52,319
Speaker 2: irritated were you when that came out?

942
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:56,600
Speaker 18: Irritated because it's you're putting real people in danger, and

943
00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:58,799
Speaker 18: I don't think it's fair to anybody or I mean,

944
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:00,920
Speaker 18: and that's a classic what happened with that as a

945
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 18: classic hallmark of gang activity. I think Kim will agree

946
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:07,279
Speaker 18: with me. It's witness intimidation at its finest, and it's unfortunate.

947
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:10,120
Speaker 2: Witness intimidation in the sense that whoever leaked that was

948
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:14,160
Speaker 2: attempting to intimidate Kenneth Copeland, right whoever it may be.

949
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:18,120
Speaker 1: The court and the District Attorney's office began an investigation

950
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:21,040
Speaker 1: into the leak. They locked down the server that held

951
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:24,239
Speaker 1: their evidence, but no one has been held accountable for

952
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:29,360
Speaker 1: what happened. One defense attorney pushed for a mistrial. Snippets

953
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:33,080
Speaker 1: of the interrogation tape have been reposted online, what titles

954
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:36,320
Speaker 1: saying that Littlewoody was guessed it snitching.

955
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 2: Vivarito had been talking with Lowoodie for years, including the

956
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:44,960
Speaker 2: days following Donovan Thomas's murder, and she understands how folks

957
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:49,400
Speaker 2: seeing that rapport could put lives like Woodies in jeopardy.

958
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:52,239
Speaker 2: So I was watching the tape, I mean, you're talking

959
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:54,920
Speaker 2: about talking to people like a real human being, like

960
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:58,360
Speaker 2: regular And that's the thing that came across as I

961
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:00,360
Speaker 2: was watching the tape was that you could build a

962
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:05,520
Speaker 2: relationship with Kenneth Copeland over time, And I think that's

963
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 2: something that I think people don't fundamentally understand is that

964
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:12,359
Speaker 2: there are relationships between the police and people who are

965
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:15,400
Speaker 2: under investigation. Like how normal is that.

966
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 19: I came initially from a probation and parole background, and

967
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:22,720
Speaker 19: your goal in that situation is to basically help repair

968
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:24,279
Speaker 19: a person's life after they get in some kind of

969
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:26,920
Speaker 19: trouble and reduce to sudiism. And I had a case

970
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:28,640
Speaker 19: a lot of all game members, the worst of the worst.

971
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 19: So I mean, regardless of what somebody did that they're with,

972
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:32,400
Speaker 19: they want to do right and they want to have

973
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:33,000
Speaker 19: a second chance.

974
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:34,040
Speaker 1: At your job to make sure.

975
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:34,400
Speaker 17: That they have it.

976
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:39,320
Speaker 2: Woo. He was charged for the gun that day, but

977
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 2: before he was led away in handcuffs, a sheriff's officer

978
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 2: paid him a visit in that little gray room. What

979
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:47,359
Speaker 2: he did the same song and dance, claiming he could

980
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:50,239
Speaker 2: provide valuable information if they could get him out of jail.

981
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:55,480
Speaker 2: As we mentioned earlier, Fulton County jail is a dangerous place.

982
00:53:56,400 --> 00:54:02,600
Speaker 2: Remember the wheelbarrows full of shanks. The share officers says this, I.

983
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:04,000
Speaker 5: Don't go through their normal chance.

984
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:04,239
Speaker 20: Man.

985
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:08,440
Speaker 5: You can say I'm special in that sense, and this

986
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:10,839
Speaker 5: is I understand entirely where you're coming from.

987
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:13,719
Speaker 14: You, because you know what, I do truly believe that

988
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:14,839
Speaker 14: stuff is going on there.

989
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:18,560
Speaker 2: I'm not doubting that he's referring to the dangers in

990
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 2: the jail.

991
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:20,280
Speaker 5: And I don't want you to get.

992
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 14: All fucked up because of something like that.

993
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:23,920
Speaker 5: That's the last thing I want to do. If you're

994
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:26,000
Speaker 5: rolling the help out with something like that, I would

995
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:28,200
Speaker 5: certainly not to put your life in danger with that.

996
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:31,200
Speaker 5: So I understand entirely where you're coming from dead.

997
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:34,640
Speaker 1: So if it is something where I make up some

998
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:37,279
Speaker 1: ruse that gets you out of the cell somewhere they

999
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:38,040
Speaker 1: don't know where you're.

1000
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 2: Going to go, I'm just saying I can do that.

1001
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 2: Seven months after this tape was recorded, Young Thug was arrested.

1002
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:49,479
Speaker 2: The eighty eight page indictment was handed up a little

1003
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:52,160
Speaker 2: wood He wasn't in the list of defendants. He isn't

1004
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:55,920
Speaker 2: in jail or prison either. The state dropped its charges

1005
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:57,200
Speaker 2: before Young thugs arrest.

1006
00:54:58,120 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 1: There's one more thing in the tape that struck us.

1007
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:04,839
Speaker 1: From about halfway into the interrogation, Marissa Everto gets frank

1008
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:07,399
Speaker 1: with Woody and what he responds in kind.

1009
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:09,000
Speaker 5: They don't care he doesn't.

1010
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 1: Care anything about you.

1011
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:11,440
Speaker 5: We've got to talk one hundred nine. He doesn't care

1012
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:12,440
Speaker 5: about you, kid, But.

1013
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 17: How many times do you wanna keep like getting just

1014
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 17: raving by and just dodge your boats.

1015
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:21,640
Speaker 5: You gotta stop at some point.

1016
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:24,759
Speaker 2: Remember how I said in episode one that young Thug

1017
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:27,719
Speaker 2: must have known the police were coming, because even I

1018
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:32,879
Speaker 2: knew they were coming. Well, men, it's so good.

1019
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:34,319
Speaker 1: I don't go around to.

1020
00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:38,960
Speaker 5: Im to shoot I did. I should didn't have gege you?

1021
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:40,920
Speaker 2: He said, what I told you to go?

1022
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:41,400
Speaker 5: Eegege you?

1023
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:42,400
Speaker 16: Who do?

1024
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:42,920
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1025
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:46,920
Speaker 5: I told you like the police, I said, as you did?

1026
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:47,840
Speaker 5: You know the gollengage?

1027
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:51,560
Speaker 1: And so you don't care?

1028
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:52,239
Speaker 3: No, I am.

1029
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:55,400
Speaker 5: She ridly.

1030
00:55:58,040 --> 00:56:02,800
Speaker 2: Flimwoody is to be believed young thug? Did you just

1031
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:03,359
Speaker 2: didn't care?

1032
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:09,520
Speaker 1: Next time on King Slime, we meet.

1033
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:12,040
Speaker 2: The defense attorneys who say the scales of justice are

1034
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:12,840
Speaker 2: being tipped.

1035
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:15,240
Speaker 3: They keep saying, well, we don't have gangs Act Chicago,

1036
00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:17,960
Speaker 3: we have they're different here. Well, yeah, because they're not gangs,

1037
00:56:18,040 --> 00:56:18,959
Speaker 3: they're just a group of kids.

1038
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:22,239
Speaker 15: Are there people that claim wyl Or that are from

1039
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 15: that neighborhood that have committed a crime before? Yes, But

1040
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:28,680
Speaker 15: ysl as a whole is not a gang, and that's

1041
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:31,640
Speaker 15: the problem that the DA's they know that, but they

1042
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:32,440
Speaker 15: don't care about that.

1043
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:36,160
Speaker 1: Go inside the holding cell to find out why Lil

1044
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:37,640
Speaker 1: Rod was screaming.

1045
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:47,640
Speaker 2: And unexpectedly find ourselves part of the proceedings.

1046
00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:51,480
Speaker 20: But I was told, and there's witnesses here, that they

1047
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:57,000
Speaker 20: were alerted to come to your honorable court today because

1048
00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:01,040
Speaker 20: there was going to be something. News is a medium

1049
00:57:01,239 --> 00:57:04,400
Speaker 20: was called allegedly by now I'm not saying any of

1050
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:08,480
Speaker 20: these prosecutors, but by somebody with their office. And if

1051
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 20: that really happened, that's outrageous.

1052
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:16,440
Speaker 1: King Slime is a production of iHeart Podcasts and Heirloom Media.

1053
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:19,960
Speaker 2: It's written and produced by George Cheedy, Christina Lee, and

1054
00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:21,480
Speaker 2: Tommy Andres.

1055
00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:24,760
Speaker 1: Mixing sound design and original music by Evan Tire and

1056
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:25,640
Speaker 1: Taylor Shakogne.

1057
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:28,640
Speaker 2: The executive producer and editor is Tommy Andres.

1058
00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:31,000
Speaker 1: Fact checking by Kaylin lynch Our.

1059
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 2: Theme music is by Done Deal.

1060
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:37,320
Speaker 1: Special thanks to the Alanta News outlets, eleven Alive, WSBTV,

1061
00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:39,680
Speaker 1: Atlanta News First, and Fox.

1062
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:42,080
Speaker 2: Five Carl Catle and o Amy Griffin.

1063
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:47,640
Speaker 1: For more shows from iHeart Podcasts, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1064
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts,