1 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to Bloomberg 2 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: Business Week with Carol Masser and Tim Stenovek on Bloomberg Radio. 3 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 2: We truly, truly respect all that is going on and 4 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 2: is important to investors, and we're going to stay on it, 5 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 2: including watching all of the day's IPOs. At the same time, 6 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 2: the team here at Bloomberg Business Week Daily has been 7 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 2: thinking a lot about some of the stories that impact investors' 8 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:32,239 Speaker 2: longer term impact all of the Bloomberg audience, and that 9 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 2: have often been in the headlines, but often get buried 10 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 2: and lost in the never ending flow of headlines, social 11 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 2: media posts, and DC press events. And so today we 12 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 2: wanted to take a look at the CDC. We're talking 13 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 2: about the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which was 14 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 2: the subject recently of a Bloomberg Business Week deep dive. 15 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 2: It was entitled America will Get Sick as CDC's total 16 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 2: overhaul takes shape, and Tim that reporting by Bloomberg's Jessica 17 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 2: Nicks and Madison Muller. 18 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 3: Jessica Nicks joins us now here in the studio. Also 19 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 3: joining us today doctor Richard E. Besser, President and CEO 20 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 3: of the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, former acting director of 21 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 3: the CDC and the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease 22 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 3: Registry in early two thousand and nine, I was during 23 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 3: the early months of the first Obama administration. He joins 24 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 3: us from New Jersey, doctor Bestar, I do want to 25 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 3: start with you and just big picture. I think many 26 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 3: Americans would agree, regardless of their political affiliation, regardless of 27 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:29,320 Speaker 3: how they feel about what's happening at the CDC and 28 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 3: AHHS right now, that Americans are unhealthy in general, that 29 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 3: Americans are sick, that the American health system has not 30 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 3: been working for years. Why hasn't it? What hasn't been working? 31 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I think that's the right diagnosis. 32 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 4: And the big question is what are the drivers of 33 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 4: that and their many you know, starting at the healthcare level. 34 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 4: You know, healthcare is a small component of people's overall health, 35 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 4: but we it is important. And we're the only wealthy 36 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 4: nation in which your ability to access health care is 37 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 4: so dependent on where you happen to have a job. 38 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 4: There are millions of people in our country who work 39 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 4: more than one job per day who don't have access 40 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 4: to high quality comprehensive affordable health care, and without that, 41 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 4: they will tend to show up in emergency rooms, They'll 42 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 4: show up. 43 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: Late for care and be sicker. 44 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 4: We also are seeing with the latest legislation out of 45 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 4: Washington that tens of millions of people in addition, are 46 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 4: going to lose their health care access, so that will 47 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 4: move us in their own direction. Some of the biggest 48 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:44,959 Speaker 4: drivers of health I have to do with income and 49 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 4: whether someone has the income to be able to afford healthy, 50 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 4: nutritious food, whether they have the income and the leisure 51 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 4: time to be able to get physical activity. These are 52 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 4: critical components of health in America. But we are seeing 53 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 4: that in America the rates of chronic disease are extremely 54 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 4: high and we need to do more to address that. 55 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,640 Speaker 4: So I think that there probably is a lot of 56 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 4: agreement around what the problem is. There is less agreement 57 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 4: in terms of what the drivers of that are or 58 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 4: what the solution should be. 59 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 2: All Right, so let's get to and I want to 60 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 2: bring in Bloomberg News health reporter Jessica Nicks, who wrote 61 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 2: the story with Madison Muller and Jessica, in your reporting, 62 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 2: you know that there is a small but vocal contingent 63 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 2: that's long been demanding changes at the CDC, and then 64 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 2: with an ally in RFK junior the AHHS Secretary, finally 65 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 2: getting these critics kind of getting what they want. But 66 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 2: scientists are really worried because they feel like they've been sidelined. 67 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 2: What is everyone so worried about. 68 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 5: Well, we've seen that in the past few months since 69 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 5: RFK came in to take over the Department of Health 70 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 5: and Human Services, a complete dismantle at the CDC for 71 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:57,119 Speaker 5: what we've seen in the past. There was a lot 72 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 5: of criticisms of the CDC during the COVID pandemic in 73 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 5: terms of guidance around what schools should be doing, social 74 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 5: distancing masking. It really divided a lot of the public. 75 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 5: Since RFK has come in, we've seen mass layoffs in 76 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 5: terms of divisions that study chronic disease, gun violence, injury prevention. 77 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:19,280 Speaker 5: We've also seen the dismantle of a vaccine panel called 78 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 5: the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, whos supposed to meet 79 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 5: next week and hand picked members from RFK have now 80 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 5: come into that panel and dismantled vaccine policy as we 81 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 5: know it. In August, we also saw a shooting at 82 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 5: the CDC. Where the CDC was the attack from a 83 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,479 Speaker 5: gunman who fired nearly five hundred rounds at the buildings. 84 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:40,280 Speaker 5: Weeks after that, the CDC director was fired weeks into 85 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 5: her tenure over vaccine policy. So there's so much confusion 86 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 5: and chaos at the CDC that the actual work is 87 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 5: not as able to get done because everyone's gone. 88 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 2: So doctor Bester, let's bring you in. I mean, the 89 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 2: worries justified. 90 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:55,840 Speaker 1: Do we need you know? 91 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:58,239 Speaker 2: I guess I want to take a step back because 92 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:00,159 Speaker 2: I think it's fair to say that sometimes we of 93 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 2: institutions that have been in place for a long time 94 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 2: and there are aspects that get a little stale or 95 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:08,159 Speaker 2: that maybe could be improved, and so it's good to 96 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 2: take a look at things. But I'm just wondering your view, 97 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:17,599 Speaker 2: as a former acting director of the CDC, what needs 98 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,679 Speaker 2: to maybe be fixed at the CDC, What is maybe 99 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,479 Speaker 2: wrong about the current approach, and what is right maybe 100 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 2: about the current approach. 101 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it is so important to look critically 102 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 1: at our institutions and ask the question, how can they 103 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: perform better? 104 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:35,720 Speaker 4: Where have they not performed well? And how do you 105 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 4: address that? It's critical. I worked at the CDC for 106 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:44,720 Speaker 4: thirteen years under Republican and democratic administrations. I ran emergency 107 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 4: preparedness for four years during the Bush administration, which is 108 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 4: why I was made acting director at the start of 109 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 4: the Obama administration to be able to respond to public 110 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:59,359 Speaker 4: health crises. What we're seeing here is the destruction of 111 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 4: the world world's leading public health agency. The CDC doesn't 112 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:07,479 Speaker 4: just provide public health expertise for the United States. It 113 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 4: had been looked at as a beacon for public health 114 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 4: around around the world. 115 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: That's no longer the case. 116 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:20,919 Speaker 4: The administration came in and haphazardly fired of tens of 117 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:24,360 Speaker 4: thousands of federal health workers, so many people at the 118 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:29,279 Speaker 4: CDC For an administration that is concerned about chronic disease. 119 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 4: They eliminated the Office on Smoking in Health, and smoking 120 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 4: is the leading preventable cause of chronic disease. There hasn't 121 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 4: been any coherent approach to this. At the start of 122 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 4: the Obama administration, there were efforts to look across the agency, 123 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:48,680 Speaker 4: where was it lacking, where could it do better. Before 124 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 4: the start of the COVID pandemic, the public's take on 125 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 4: the CDC was very high and had very high approval ratings. 126 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:01,159 Speaker 4: But we saw with the COVID pandemic see makes some mistakes, 127 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 4: but we also saw the intentional politicization of public health 128 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 4: by an administration that saw the opportunity for a political gain, 129 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 4: and so across the nation we saw hundreds of talented 130 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 4: public health professionals be vilified, people leave their jobs, some 131 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 4: forced out, some not able to take the stress or 132 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 4: the blatant threats to their health and safety. 133 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: And now, with this. 134 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 4: Administration, at a time where we need to rebuild trust, 135 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 4: we have as our Secretary of Health one of the 136 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 4: nation's leading anti vaccine advocates and someone who has demonstrated 137 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 4: no respect for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. 138 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 5: Doctor Besser, you mentioned that the CDC is this beacon 139 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 5: of global public health. We saw what they did during 140 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 5: the COVID pandemic. But what does this mean for future 141 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 5: pandemics that might pop up if we have a dismantled CDC, 142 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 5: not just for the US, but also for the world. 143 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 2: Okay, my heart just stopped beating, because we are going 144 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 2: to get another global pandemic arm a doctor Pessor. 145 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, the question is when not in but one of 146 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 4: the challenges it's not just the CDC being decimated the 147 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 4: elimination of USAID, the Agency for International Development. The CDC 148 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 4: works very closely with USAID personnel around the globe to 149 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 4: make sure that health departments are ready, public health professionals 150 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 4: are ready to be able to detect and respond to 151 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 4: signals very quickly to ensure that other countries can control disease, 152 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 4: but it also helps ensure that new diseases don't come 153 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:43,199 Speaker 4: to our shores. Dropping out of the World Health Organization, 154 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:47,560 Speaker 4: which is designed to be the body to help share 155 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 4: information around the globe help ensure that problems are contained 156 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 4: where they arise. That is leading leaving us as a 157 00:08:55,600 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 4: nation less secure, more defenseless. The cut of billions of 158 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 4: dollars to the CDC means a cut of billions of 159 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 4: dollars to state in local health departments. 160 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 1: Because most of the money to the CDC has passed on. 161 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 4: That means that in our communities they're not going to 162 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:14,320 Speaker 4: be as well prepared, not just for the next pandemic 163 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 4: or major infectious disease crisis, but for making sure the 164 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:21,199 Speaker 4: restaurant you go to for dinner is serving you food 165 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 4: that doesn't make you sick, and when your kids go 166 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 4: to the swimming pool, they can swim in that water 167 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 4: without getting harmed. These are some of the things that 168 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 4: the CDC has done that they're not able to do 169 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 4: with what's taken place under this administration. 170 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 3: So, doctor, when, in your view, do we start to 171 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 3: see the effects if we haven't already of these cuts 172 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 3: that you've been talking about, Well, we are. 173 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: Seeing them, and you're reporting that. Such a nice job 174 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 1: lifting that up. 175 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 4: Where a health department in Texas calls the cd for 176 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 4: the CDC for assistance and there's nowhere there, there's no 177 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:57,439 Speaker 4: one there to help. We heard early on in Milwaukee 178 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 4: where they're dealing with lead and their water supply. They 179 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:02,560 Speaker 4: called the CDC, but the group that worked on lead 180 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 4: poisoning had been like, oh, these are things that will 181 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 4: affect people at the community level. It will continue to grow, 182 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,959 Speaker 4: but in general, public health is invisible. 183 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: When it's working properly. It's only when it's not working 184 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 1: properly and then get stressed. So whenever there's a crisis 185 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: in a community and. 186 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 4: Public health can't respond, then you will see it and 187 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 4: then hopefully people in their communities will say this doesn't 188 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:29,679 Speaker 4: work for us. We need the CDC to be supported. 189 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 4: We need our state and local public health departments to 190 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 4: be supported. 191 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 2: Doctor Besser, Why are we so divided when it comes 192 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 2: to There are those of us who are like, yeah, 193 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 2: I trust the government, I trust the CDC and what 194 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 2: they say, and then there are those that don't. Is 195 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 2: it just politically motivated or is it people who don't 196 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 2: feel like they get good health care and so they're like, 197 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 2: the system is just not working. 198 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a great question, and I think that there 199 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 1: are a number of factors. Before COVID pandemic, the approval 200 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: rating by both parties was very, very strong. 201 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 4: With the COVID pandemic, there were mistakes that CDC made, 202 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 4: but I led the CDC at the start of the 203 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 4: H one N one swine flu pandemic, and during that 204 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 4: period we saw extremely high approval ratings. And the reason 205 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:18,199 Speaker 4: for that was there was intentionally efforts to not politicize 206 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 4: the response. People from both parties came together and said, 207 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 4: we're going to do what it takes to keep people 208 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 4: in our communities safe. What we recommend now may change 209 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 4: as we learn more information. That's a good thing. With 210 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 4: the COVID pandemic. Whenever there was a change in guidance. 211 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 4: It was jumped on as a sign that the agency 212 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 4: didn't know what they were doing. And CDC wasn't allowed 213 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 4: to talk directly to the public after the first two 214 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 4: months in the pandemic, and that is a setup for 215 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 4: disaster because you need active communication to build trust and 216 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 4: maintain trust, and once you've lost trust, it's extremely hard to. 217 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,719 Speaker 5: Get it back, doctor Besser. We've also seen this dismantle 218 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 5: of the Vaccine Committee at the CDC, which decides which 219 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 5: insurance people are going to be able to have to 220 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 5: be able to get their vaccines. So what does that 221 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 5: mean to watch this dismantle of the vaccine policy as well. 222 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:15,479 Speaker 4: Yeah, So, I'm a general pediatrician and I practiced pediatrics 223 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 4: for more than thirty years, and I know that nothing 224 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 4: I did as a pediatrician had more proven value than 225 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 4: helping my patients make sure that they were vaccinated completely 226 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 4: and on time. And that took spending a lot of 227 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 4: time with parents answering their really good questions so that 228 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 4: they were comfortable making the right decision for their children. 229 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 4: And I always said, if you have a question, if 230 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 4: you want some honest information, go to the CDC website. 231 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 4: They'll give you all the information. We can't do that anymore, 232 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 4: and that is a major problem. We're seeing other organizations 233 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 4: step up. The Academy of Pediatrics represents pediatricians. I'm a 234 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 4: member of that group. They have guidance. We're seeing states 235 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 4: come up with guidance. But the idea that we can't 236 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 4: look to the CDC because this advisory group has become 237 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 4: so politicized, so staffed with people who who have strong 238 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 4: anti vaccine agendas, will put us at great risk. And 239 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:13,959 Speaker 4: what I'm hearing about the committee meeting for next week 240 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 4: is that they will raise great concerns about safety in 241 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 4: the COVID vaccine, safety concerns that have not been verified scientifically. 242 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:26,080 Speaker 4: And this again will lead people to be confused and 243 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 4: will lead some people to make a decision that I 244 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:30,439 Speaker 4: think is not good for the health of their families. 245 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 2: All right, And as we know, confusion uncertainty never good, 246 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 2: doesn't matter what area of the world or our lives 247 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 2: that we're talking about. Doctor Besser, thank you so much, 248 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 2: Doctor Richard Besser, President CEO of the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, 249 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 2: former Acting Director of the CDC, joining us from New 250 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 2: Jersey on this Friday. Hey, Jessica before you go. Incredible story. 251 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 2: Highly recommend everybody check it out on the Bloomberg I'm 252 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 2: reading and you do quote doctor Besser. He said it 253 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 2: here and he said, in a very short time, we've 254 00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:59,959 Speaker 2: seen an incredible destruction of the agency that leaves people 255 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:01,959 Speaker 2: here and around the world at increasing risk. And of 256 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 2: course he was talking about the CDC. Your kind of 257 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 2: thoughts After having a further discussion with doctor Besser and 258 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:10,840 Speaker 2: where we are in terms of healthcare in America. 259 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 5: It's going to be really interesting to watch what happens 260 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 5: to public health across the US right now. We're seeing 261 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 5: a bit of a piecemeal policy around vaccine policy in 262 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 5: the US too. States are kind of adopting their own 263 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 5: guidelines or working together about how can we start making 264 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 5: sure that COVID vaccines are still offered at pharmacies now 265 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 5: as well. So we're seeing a state by state approach 266 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 5: to public health now, which is difficult without the CDC, 267 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 5: because the CDC does provide that nationwide view of what's 268 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 5: happening to the nation's healthcare right. 269 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 2: And it sounds like different states have different moneies and 270 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 2: that will kind of determine some of the healthcare. 271 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 3: Well, not just that, I think insurance companies have an 272 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 3: interesting position here because if the CDC doesn't necessarily recommend something, 273 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 3: but states do, then what is an insurance company going 274 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 3: to cover And to what extent does that actually push 275 00:14:57,560 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 3: somebody to get or not get a certain medicine. 276 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 5: That's a great question, and I think we're going to 277 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 5: be seeing that play out, especially starting next year when 278 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 5: the next plans start. As of this year, insurance companies 279 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 5: are still going to cover vaccines, but health experts have 280 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 5: been telling us in our reporting that the cost of 281 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 5: a vaccine is probably less than the cost of the 282 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 5: illness that you're going to get later on and then 283 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 5: your hospital bill and everything else. 284 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 2: So they are a whole idea of preventive medicine right, 285 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 2: exactly right, and folks have been preaching that for such 286 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 2: a long time. Thank you so much you're reporting and 287 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 2: also joining us here. Bloomberg News Health reporter Jessica Nick