1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, the production of 2 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: My Heart Radio. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,799 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. And 4 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 1: today we're gonna be talking about an invention. Rob I 5 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: think this will be in the tradition of our episode 6 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:26,119 Speaker 1: on chopsticks that we did a while back. Why is 7 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 1: it that you so often suggest discussing the invention of 8 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: a of a device with no moving parts that is 9 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: used to eat. I don't know, like part of it, 10 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: mainly like in this case, I was looking at another 11 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: topic and I kind of hit a wall on it 12 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: and I was like, oh man, I'm not excited about 13 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: this topic anymore. And um and then I don't know, 14 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: you kind of like you think to yourself, well, what's 15 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 1: something smaller, What's something that couldn't possibly hurt me? And 16 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: you realize the spoon, it's right there, it's in the drawer. 17 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: I love spoons, or you know, in previous case, chopsticks, 18 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: And I know they've got to be a fascinating history. 19 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: You know, it's like one of some of these inventions 20 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: that are you know, so ancient. We're not going to 21 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:09,119 Speaker 1: pick out the individual that invented these things or anything 22 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: like that. But it is fascinating how they move through 23 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: human civilizations. Oh so I understand the spoon was your 24 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,039 Speaker 1: stay puffed marshmallow man. You were trying to think of 25 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:21,919 Speaker 1: something so innocent and good that it could never hurt anyone, 26 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:25,960 Speaker 1: and and this is where we came to But I was, 27 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: I was surprised, as I always am, because I think 28 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: we found some pretty interesting stuff about the invention of 29 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 1: the spoon. Yeah, like if you if you think you 30 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: know the spoon, if you think spoons are boring, well 31 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:39,759 Speaker 1: then um, we'll stay tuned because there's there's some cool stuff. Uh. 32 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: And and also you know when you really stop to 33 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:45,399 Speaker 1: think about it and you really so start to consider it, Yeah, 34 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 1: it does get quite uh quite quite fascinating. As as B. 35 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: Wilson pointed out in an Atlantic article, that will come 36 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: back to what your spoon says about you. From there 37 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: are fourign cultures, there are chopstick cultures. But every culture 38 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 1: is a spoon culture. And of course it's not just 39 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: not just one type of spoon. There are a lot 40 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:06,919 Speaker 1: of different types of spoons. And I would like everyone 41 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 1: out there to try and just imagine a day, a 42 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 1: day in your life without access to any sort of spoon. Okay, 43 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: so you're up in the morning, you're trying to get 44 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: ready for work. You make your coffee and maybe you 45 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,079 Speaker 1: add some cream deer coffee. But what do you do, Well, 46 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: you stick your finger in and burn it as you 47 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,359 Speaker 1: stir it around. And then after that you've got some oatmeal. 48 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: But how are you gonna get that oatmeal in your mouth? Well, 49 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 1: you're just reaching in with your fingertips and shoving it 50 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 1: in there, and that's gonna be crusty later on, but 51 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 1: you're in a hurry, uh, and then it goes on 52 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: from there. Yeah, I mean even going back to the coffee, like, 53 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: all right, you're you're you're gonna good coffee grounds and 54 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: put them into your coffee brewing device or or or 55 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 1: or vessel. How are you going to measure that stuff out? 56 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 1: You know, Now some of this we're getting into distinction 57 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 1: of what is a what is a scoop, what is 58 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 1: a cup, what is a spoon? But essentially like spoons 59 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 1: are are a way that we measures as well, we'll 60 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: get into that. So imagine yourself. You know, you're just 61 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: gonna have to make that kind of like rough Rutger 62 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: hour coffee in the morning, where you're not really you're 63 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:10,920 Speaker 1: not really putting a lot of thought into it, just 64 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:13,080 Speaker 1: throwing it in there, then putting some boiling water, and 65 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:18,239 Speaker 1: then just let the cream fall where it will depraved. Now, 66 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 1: for my part, I often play a kind of game 67 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: in the morning. So I get up, I make my coffee. 68 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: Sometimes I get to finish watching part of a of 69 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 1: a movie for Weird House or something, uh, and then 70 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 1: everybody else gets up. We do what we do breakfast, 71 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: and at some point I uh, I either unloved the 72 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: dishwasher or I help unload the dishwasher. And for a 73 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: long time, uh, Now I've been playing this kind of 74 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: game in my head, um where I consider all of 75 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: the various utensils and plate types teams, and the winning 76 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: team is the one that managed to get the most 77 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 1: members of their team into the dishwasher the previous day. Um. So, 78 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: so I've I've since told my family about this. My 79 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: one gets in on the on the fun too. Now. 80 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 1: You know, it might be a banner day for Team 81 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 1: Fork or Team butter Knife, for Team Ramikins. Sometimes Team 82 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: Ramikins really really cleans it up those the days were 83 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 1: you have executed a good mees on plus while making dinner, 84 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 1: all right, we used we end up using Ramikins for 85 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:18,680 Speaker 1: a lot of different things. So it's like, you know, 86 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,280 Speaker 1: puddings and or snack mix. You know, you don't want 87 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: to eat right out of the bag, you put it 88 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 1: into the Ramikins. So there are days when the when 89 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: the Ramikins team does goes quite well. But my my 90 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: favorite team and the team that seems to win the 91 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 1: most is of course Team Spoon. Uh. And there are 92 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:35,600 Speaker 1: days where just the three of us we managed to 93 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: use not only all the all the big spoons and 94 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: all the little spoons, but also say both grapefruit spoons, 95 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 1: the weird sugar spoon that we don't actually use because 96 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: we don't use a like a sugar um caddy thing 97 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 1: or and also the odd spoon that's in the drawer 98 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 1: that doesn't match anything else, that's like left over some 99 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 1: from from some other set or something. Um. So nobody's 100 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 1: left on the bench for Team Spoon. Everybody he's in 101 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: the game and they win. This is like one of 102 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 1: those big tag team matches where suddenly everybody ends up 103 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 1: in the ring. They're all pouring out. Yeah. Yeah, the 104 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:12,600 Speaker 1: serving spoons, wooden, cooking spoons, you name it. So yeah, 105 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: it's it's it's really hard for me to imagine a 106 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 1: day without using spoons. I I don't even know. I 107 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: don't even want to tell people to take the no 108 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: spoon challenge and tell us how it goes, because it 109 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: just it doesn't sound fun. So really, just think of 110 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 1: all the things we use a spoon four so mixing, stirring, measuring, serving, eating, 111 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:34,160 Speaker 1: and and just think of all the foods they work 112 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: well with. I feel like I can depend on the 113 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: spoon for just about everything, with occasional use of chopsticks 114 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: as well. But I rarely use a fork. Um, and 115 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 1: part of it is my you know, I don't know, 116 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 1: I've gotten to where I kind of think of the 117 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 1: fork is maybe just too pointy and maybe too violent, 118 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: but but but I just rarely need one. If I'm 119 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: going to depend on the spoon, the spoon can do 120 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,720 Speaker 1: pretty much everything the fork can and if it if 121 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: it can't, then I've got the chops ext to depend on. Yeah, 122 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:03,479 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it depends largely on what kinds 123 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: of foods you eat the most in your house. But 124 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:08,719 Speaker 1: we're the same way we Uh. I'd say probably at 125 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:13,280 Speaker 1: least three quarters of our meals involve either a spoon, chopsticks, 126 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: or both, but probably only maybe one in four involves 127 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: a fork. So, in keeping with past invention episodes, uh, 128 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:25,919 Speaker 1: let's start where we always start, what came before, what 129 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:32,279 Speaker 1: came before the spoon? Well, obviously eating with one's fingers, right, well, yes, 130 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 1: uh uh, and you know, for that, for further exploration 131 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,279 Speaker 1: of that, we of course can look at some examples 132 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: from our primate cousins. So first of all, in addition 133 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 1: to just sort of like sticking your hands and things 134 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 1: and licking things off your fingers, uh, there's of course 135 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 1: using cupped hands, especially for liquids, for things like water. Um, 136 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 1: these of course allow even modern humans to form a 137 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 1: cup or a bowl out of their own body. But 138 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: there's a there's a there's a lot of stuff. Expoons 139 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 1: have been around so long, uh that. Yeah, oftentimes they're mundane, 140 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,840 Speaker 1: but sometimes there's stuff their uses of it that are 141 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 1: maybe a little more insightful. For instance, in Jewish tradition, 142 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: there's the the allegory of the long spoons. Yeah, this 143 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: is a story that's that gets told in sort of 144 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: sermons and religious teaching a lot. I think it's Actually 145 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 1: I was looking around and I don't think anyone, as 146 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: far as I could tell, has identified a certain origin 147 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 1: of this story. There seemed to be a lot of 148 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 1: cultural variations, including a Chinese version that that references chopsticks, 149 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 1: and then versions of the reference spoons. Actually, I think 150 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: I should tell the other version of it first, because 151 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 1: it makes more sense. So uh So, the version I 152 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: read was that a you know, a teacher comes up 153 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: to his rabbi and says, Rabbi, tell me the difference 154 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 1: between Heaven and Hell, and the Rabbi says, well, at 155 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: at in both Heaven and Hell, everyone is seated at 156 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: a at a great table for a feast, and there 157 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: is plenty of delicious food out in front of them, 158 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: you know, steaming bowls of delicious stew. Uh. But in 159 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: both Heaven and Hell people cannot bend their arms at 160 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 1: the elbow. And yet, while that means everyone in Hell 161 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 1: starves because they can't bring the food up to their lips, 162 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: everyone in Heaven is sated because they don't try to 163 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: feed themselves. They feed each other. And then a variation 164 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 1: on this story is that instead of being unable to 165 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: bend your arms at the elbow. Uh. The only utensils 166 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 1: are very long utensils that make it difficult. So you 167 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 1: like can't feed yourself, but you could feed somebody else. 168 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 1: So a long spoon would be I guess one that's 169 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:36,079 Speaker 1: hard to used to get up to your own face. 170 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 1: M Okay, well, I see the point they're making. But 171 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: also just the idea of being like a Star Wars 172 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:44,079 Speaker 1: action figure uh in in the afterlife and not being 173 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: able to move your your your your arms, having only 174 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: like one point of articulation, maybe two, That does sound 175 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 1: like torment. I mean, I think the point it's trying 176 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: to make is maybe not literally supposed to be about 177 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 1: heaven and hell, but but about how uh you know, 178 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,440 Speaker 1: the kind of Ebenezer Scrooge concept that a person who 179 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 1: is selfish creates a hell of their own making by 180 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 1: their continued inability to to think of other people, right right, Yeah, 181 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: But put enough miserable people in one place, in that 182 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: place will become a place of misery just by virtue 183 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: of their their personalities. But I guess one thing that 184 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: that does highlight is that maybe a lot of times 185 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 1: we don't appreciate enough the minute physical features of a 186 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 1: spoon and how much difference that makes and how usable 187 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 1: it is. Uh, this makes me think at least about 188 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 1: how hard it is to eat with a spoon that 189 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:38,079 Speaker 1: is just slightly too big, you know, Like that's another 190 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: thing we don't often think about. So a spoon, of course, 191 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: when used as an eating utensil, as a means of conveyance, 192 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:45,599 Speaker 1: you know, it gets the food from the plate of 193 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 1: the bowl into your mouth. But it's not just any 194 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 1: means of conveyance. It's also in effect a measuring device. 195 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 1: It measures out an appropriately sized bite of food or 196 00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: you know, quantity of food to fit in your mouth 197 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: at one time. And so a spoon it's too small 198 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: or a spoon that's too big is actually very weird 199 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:08,719 Speaker 1: and frustrating to eat with. Yeah, yeah, it's well, we'll 200 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:11,199 Speaker 1: keep coming back to this. But when you think about 201 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:15,559 Speaker 1: a given spoon design, Uh, the spoon is it's it's 202 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: design is going to be influenced by what sorts of 203 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: foods it is it was designed to deal with. But 204 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 1: then also its design is going to have an impact 205 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: on how you eat and like in terms of like 206 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: how much you're attempting to put in your mouth at 207 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: one time, but also how you hold the spoon and 208 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: therefore how you carry yourself uh like, you know, socially 209 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 1: and and and mannerly at the dinner table or wherever 210 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 1: you happen to be eating. So it's you know, it's 211 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: it's this thing that that that has a as a 212 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 1: big impact on the way we behave and the way 213 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 1: we we consume, even if we just think of it. 214 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:54,840 Speaker 1: It's just this often disposable item, uh that comes with 215 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: the meal. You know. Looking at this topic made me wonder, 216 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: are there any studies looking at the psychological effects of 217 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: eating directly with the hands versus using utensils. I'm sure 218 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: somebody must have looked at that. I found at least 219 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: one study. I probably wouldn't hang too much on this 220 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,679 Speaker 1: one result, but but it it did seem interesting. So 221 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: this was a paper published in the Journal of Retailing, 222 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:21,080 Speaker 1: so not like a psychology journal but like a business journal, 223 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: by Adriana V. Majurov, called self control and Touch. When 224 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: does direct versus indirect touch increase hedonic evaluations and consumption 225 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: of food? And The short version of what the study 226 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 1: found is that among people who apply self control during 227 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: food consumption, so I think this is especially people who 228 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:44,320 Speaker 1: are being careful, people who are watching what they eat. 229 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 1: I don't know if the same would apply to people 230 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 1: who are just you know, just kind of shoveling it 231 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 1: in there. But among people who show high self control 232 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 1: when eating food, touching food directly with the hands enhances 233 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 1: the sensory experience and increase his hedonic evaluations of food. 234 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: So people who eat with their fingers directly versus eating 235 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 1: the same food with the spoon report finding that food 236 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 1: more pleasurable to eat and they eat more of it. Mhm, well, 237 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:17,199 Speaker 1: that's interesting. It almost makes me wonder if there could 238 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: be a kind of small role for the spoon and 239 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: other utensils in the evolution of of human food and 240 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 1: cuisine and culture, in uh, tempering the appetite, like sort 241 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 1: of making you hold back a bit and how much 242 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 1: you eat in anyone sitting Huh. That is yeah, I 243 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: had not really thought about that. But then, like you said, 244 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: this is just one study, and of course it raises 245 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 1: the It raises the point that we have various food 246 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: cultures around the world, and some of them are more 247 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 1: inherently based on eating with hands versus eating with utensils. 248 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 1: And like, you know, this kind of broad statement, how 249 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 1: does that apply to like this cuisine, this food culture 250 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: versus this one? Like it could be it's like, oh, well, 251 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 1: I just I've never stopped to touch chili before, but 252 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: now when I'm eating chili with my hands, yes, I 253 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 1: suddenly feel far more hedonic. Uh, I don't know. Well, 254 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: to whatever extent this is generally applicable. If it is, 255 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 1: I think it would, you'd have to confine at least 256 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:20,719 Speaker 1: this result to foods that could be eaten either way, right, 257 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: because a lot of foods you you basically can't eat 258 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:25,959 Speaker 1: them except with the spoon, I guess maybe slurping from 259 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 1: a bowl, you know, soups and porridges and stuff, which 260 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: are we should remember a huge portion of all the 261 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: foods that humans have eaten throughout history of a lot 262 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 1: of foods are liquid based. Alright, Well, let's let's back 263 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: up just a little bit and uh and consider primates again. 264 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 1: So we were talking about hands coming together and forming 265 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: natural cups or natural spoons again, we can we can 266 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: kind of the terminology kind of breaks down when you're 267 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 1: dealing with the like the pre spoon approaches to this 268 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: to the same functions, but I was reading about this 269 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 1: in an art called This was a nat geo from 270 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: Liz Langley called Meet the Beatles that harvest fog in 271 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: the desert and uh the author mentions a few different 272 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 1: examples of curious things that animals do to get to 273 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:13,959 Speaker 1: get their their food or their their liquids. And they 274 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: mentioned that, uh, that Southeast Asian gibbons drink water through 275 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: cupped hands, sometimes while hanging inverted. Now, of course, the 276 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: spoon that we're using, the spoon you probably used today, 277 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 1: it is, of course, uh, an artifact. It is a 278 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 1: you know, a thing that we have made out of 279 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: other objects or other materials. But the step right before 280 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 1: creating an artifact, in the words of anthropologist Window Oswald, 281 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: is a nature fact. That's a naturally occurring object used 282 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 1: intentionally but without modification for some purpose. Uh So. Jane 283 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 1: Goodall actually observed chimpanzees using blades of grass as a 284 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 1: kind of spoon to consume termites in the nineteen sixties, 285 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: and I ran a carreroff Say two thousand fifteen paper 286 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: publishing the Royal Society Open Science. They found that chimps 287 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 1: use leaves as a kind of spoon or cup to 288 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: drink alcohol seeping from palm trees, leafy shot glass, Yeah exactly. Now. Likewise, 289 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 1: before humans crafted the first spoons or something or the 290 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: proto spoons, they likely used found pieces of wood and 291 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: especially shells. It's pointed out by the California Academy of Sciences, 292 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: which has a page on spoons. Both the Greek and 293 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: Latin words for spoon are derived from cochlea, meaning a 294 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 1: spiral shaped snail shell. Uh. This may point to the 295 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: origins of the spoon in Europe at least, you know, 296 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: taking taking a shell, a foun shell and using that 297 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 1: as a spoon. And of course we see this reflected 298 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 1: sometimes in um are more elegant spoon designs where the 299 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 1: spoon itself, the cup of the spoon is made, the 300 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 1: bowl of the spoon is made to look like a shell. 301 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and I've used a spoon like that before. 302 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: I think it's some family member's house at some point. Uh. 303 00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: It was like a ladle that was shaped like a 304 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: like a hell that had the ridges and it was 305 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 1: annoying to use. You utensil nerds out there will have 306 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 1: to let us know, because I know that the collectors 307 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: really get into the exact terminology for not only the 308 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: different types of spoons, but also the styles, et cetera. 309 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 1: But I know I've seen them before. I feel like 310 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: it was used as a as a sugar spoon or something. Um. 311 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: But then the you know, another question arises here is 312 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: a shell really a spoon? Are we do even if 313 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: you take the shell and you attach it to a stick, 314 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 1: you know, are are we dealing with things or functions? Uh? 315 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 1: This is a question raised by Polish linguist Anna Versbecca 316 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 1: of the Australian National University in the idea of a 317 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 1: spoon Semantics, prehistory and cultural logic in UM. And I 318 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: have to say, if you want, if you want a 319 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 1: deep but approachable paper on what it means to call 320 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 1: something a spoon, Uh, then this is this. I mean 321 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: it's a really good article like you'll you'll if if 322 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 1: it sounds laughable, I recommend looking it up. You can 323 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 1: find it online. Um, it's quite enjoy We're not going 324 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: to get into all the points that they raise, but 325 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: we'll get into some of it. Does it does it 326 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 1: shred that matrix scene? Oh? What was the what was 327 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 1: the spoon matrix scene? It's been a while I haven't 328 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: gotten around of my watch. Well, it is that there's 329 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:16,680 Speaker 1: a little boy within the Matrix who's telekinetically bending a spoon, 330 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: and then Kanu tries to do it and he fails, 331 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 1: and the little boy tells him the problem is that 332 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: he's trying to bend the spoon instead of realizing that, 333 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,680 Speaker 1: in fact, there is no spoon. There is no spoon, 334 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 1: of course, now I remember, um, I don't. I don't 335 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,119 Speaker 1: think they specifically mentioned that, but I think it's I 336 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: think it's some of the gnostic themes of the Matrix 337 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: coming through, and the idea that the true enlightenment and 338 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 1: power comes from realizing that material reality is an illusion. Gotcha? 339 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: All right? Well, I want to read just a bit 340 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 1: from Resbecca's article here quote. When the focus is on 341 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 1: things rather than concepts, it is indeed impossible to draw 342 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 1: a line between spoons and sort of spoons. There are 343 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 1: many shades of gray between a puritan that's the type 344 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 1: of spoon that will discuss later on in the episode, 345 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 1: and a shell, or between a carved spoon and a 346 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: chip of wood. There is no such shading, however, between 347 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 1: the concept spoon and concept shell or chip of wood. 348 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:17,199 Speaker 1: The invention of the spoon, like the invention of the wheel, 349 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:21,359 Speaker 1: is a conceptual breakthrough. Without a clear distinction between things 350 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: which are made for purpose according to a certain blueprint 351 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:27,679 Speaker 1: and things which are merely used for a purpose with 352 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 1: no crystallized creative idea behind them, we can hardly make 353 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 1: any firm generalizations about cultural history, prehistory and the history 354 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:38,240 Speaker 1: of cooking and eating. And then they go on to say, quote, 355 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:42,120 Speaker 1: I submit that cultural kinds are based on complex ideas 356 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: born in individual human minds in the context of particular needs, 357 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: ideas that have caught on in certain communities and have 358 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 1: become embedded in social practices, and that without identifying these 359 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 1: ideas we cannot fully understand the practices based on them. 360 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: And from here they point to, you know, to a 361 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:01,919 Speaker 1: very import in consideration in the birth or invention of 362 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 1: the spoon, that it arises in a large part due 363 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 1: to the importance of soft, watery cereal based foods such 364 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: as gruels and porridges in given cultures, and so different 365 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 1: sorts of spoons that we find in different cultures are 366 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:19,080 Speaker 1: tied to specific food cultures. Well, yeah, if you want 367 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:21,239 Speaker 1: to jump right into it, I could discuss some some 368 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:24,679 Speaker 1: specific evidence on exactly that front, Yeah, why not there 369 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: there are no rules. Were just digger spoons in wherever? 370 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 1: Thank alright, well, I guess that means we're gonna jump 371 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 1: to the part of the episode where we try to 372 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:41,199 Speaker 1: find the oldest spoon known of uh. And and one 373 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,880 Speaker 1: thing that I think is worth noting is that if 374 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 1: you're generous with what you would call a knife in 375 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 1: the context of culinary use, I think it's extremely clear 376 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: that the knife predates the spoon. The fork doesn't, but 377 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 1: the knife does. Well. It makes sense, right because we've 378 00:19:57,359 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 1: talked about the ways that the hand can do things 379 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 1: that is bone can do and uh, but but there 380 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: are things that a knife can do that the hand 381 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:08,160 Speaker 1: cannot do, that the teeth cannot do. Right. Uh. So 382 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 1: the further you go back, the evidence gets more ambiguous. 383 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 1: But there's no question at all that by a few 384 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 1: hundred thousand years ago, like like two hundred thousand years ago, 385 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 1: our ancestors were using sharpened pieces of stone of often 386 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 1: flint and other stones that are suitable for napping to 387 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 1: create blades. And actually the evidence uh I was checking recently, 388 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,200 Speaker 1: it goes back even farther than that, based on recent 389 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:33,639 Speaker 1: discoveries in in Africa. Um. I think there is evidence 390 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,399 Speaker 1: of stone blades going back at least half a million 391 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 1: years or so from Kenya, and there might be stuff 392 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 1: even earlier now, but probably a major one of the 393 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,919 Speaker 1: uses for early stone knives was for the processing of 394 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:49,360 Speaker 1: animal carcasses. So if you have been hunting or you've 395 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:51,679 Speaker 1: come across a dead animal and you're trying to strip 396 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:54,920 Speaker 1: the meat from the bones or cut the meat into 397 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:59,160 Speaker 1: usable pieces of usable size, a sharpened piece of stone 398 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 1: will help you do that. So again, if you if 399 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,160 Speaker 1: you're generous with what counts as a knife, knives obviously 400 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:08,399 Speaker 1: go way way back deep deep human and even even 401 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 1: pre Homo sapiens. But with spoons specifically, a lot of 402 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: the stuff on the internet, if you're looking around for 403 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: the oldest spoons, it ends up talking about stuff from 404 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: ancient Egypt or wherever, which is very interesting and we 405 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,239 Speaker 1: will talk about. But you know that there must be 406 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:25,959 Speaker 1: stuff earlier than that, at least as far back as 407 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,120 Speaker 1: the Neolithic. So I went searching in the scientific literature. 408 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: I was trying to find uh an authoritative attempt at 409 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 1: cataloging the oldest spoons in the archaeological record, and I 410 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,919 Speaker 1: did come across something. There does appear to be some 411 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 1: ambiguity in this one too, because there are things you 412 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 1: can find from from the Stone Age and you can 413 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,879 Speaker 1: argue is this a spoon or not. But at some point, 414 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 1: certainly a little bit before the Neolithic, and then definitely 415 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:55,399 Speaker 1: during the Neolithic, we get clear evidence of spoons. Um So, 416 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 1: I found one recent paper that gives a good rundown 417 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 1: of the existing evidence. This is a paper by Sofia 418 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 1: Stefanovitch at All called bone Spoons for Prehistoric Babies Detection 419 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: of human teeth marks on the Neolithic artifacts from the 420 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 1: site grod Starcevo. That is impressive. You know, I didn't 421 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 1: think about that. But like feeding a baby, it's first foods. 422 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 1: Those foods have to be well one way or another. 423 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: They you know, they have to be mashed up. They 424 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: have to be soft foods. And babies, you know, they 425 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 1: can they can spit out and they can bite with 426 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 1: their little gum mouths. So uh yeah, I could see 427 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 1: and and and eventually teeth. Uh yeah. Anyway, go on, 428 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: I'm just I'm astounded here. I didn't think about this 429 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,359 Speaker 1: at all. Yeah, this this paper was really interesting to me. 430 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 1: So um So, whereab I've attached a picture of some 431 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: of these spoons for you to look at for reference. 432 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: They aren't spoons like we would imagine today that have 433 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:52,440 Speaker 1: a rounded cup area there there. They look more kind 434 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 1: of like tiny scoop paddles made of bone. Yeah, yeah, 435 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 1: Now is Stefanovitch at all discuss here? The earliest solid 436 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:05,479 Speaker 1: evidence of consistent cultural spoon use pops up in the 437 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 1: Neolithic period. Now, remember the Neolithic period is the last 438 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: part of the Stone Age. This is still the the 439 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: age and human development where cultures are dominated by stone tools. 440 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: But this is coinciding with or after the invention of agriculture. So, uh, 441 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: it's usually imagined to begin roughly twelve thousand years ago. 442 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 1: I think there's there's a good bit of looseness and 443 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,680 Speaker 1: and how those years apply, especially depending on like what 444 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: particular region you're talking about. But roughly twelve thousand years 445 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: ago or so we go into the Neolithic era, and 446 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 1: and significantly this coincides with the invention of agriculture and 447 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 1: the widespread use of spoons. Before the Neolithic there is 448 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,439 Speaker 1: some evidence of spoons, but in the words of the 449 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:53,159 Speaker 1: authors here, these pre Neolithic spoons are quote rare and 450 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 1: isolated occurrences, and they give a few examples. One is 451 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,439 Speaker 1: something cited by an archaeologist named John nandre Ris that 452 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:02,920 Speaker 1: was published in the Bulletin of the Institute of Archaeology 453 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy two. I could not find the full 454 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:08,959 Speaker 1: text on this, but the citation is uh for a 455 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: single instance of an artifact from the paleolithics, so the 456 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,920 Speaker 1: Old Stone Age going way back that Nandris interpreted as 457 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 1: a spoon made out of bone. For more solid evidence, 458 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 1: the authors here site quote the earliest secure find of 459 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 1: a pre Neolithic spoon was documented at a geometric Kebaran 460 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 1: site of Uyun al Hamam, which which was context dated 461 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 1: to about sixteen and a half thousand years ago or 462 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 1: sixteen thousand, five hundred years ago roughly. Now I followed 463 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 1: this up. I went to the study they were talking about, 464 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,120 Speaker 1: and this is a study by Lisa A. Mar at 465 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 1: All called a unique human fox burial from a pre 466 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 1: Netufian cemetery in the Lavant Jordan's and this was published 467 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: in PLS one in two thousand eleven. And this also 468 00:24:57,960 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: was really interesting. So this is this is one of 469 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 1: the earliest examples known of a spoon in the archaeological record, 470 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 1: and it's being attributed to what is being called here 471 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:10,119 Speaker 1: the pre Natufian culture. Now, if you've been listening to 472 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: the show for a while and the idea of the 473 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 1: Natufian culture rings a bell, this is the modern name 474 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 1: for a late Paleolithic culture that lived in the Lavant 475 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 1: So you think modern day Syria, Lebanon, Israel, and Jordans, 476 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 1: and the Natufian culture is really interesting from a historical 477 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:34,680 Speaker 1: technological perspective because they sort of show signs of practices 478 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:40,440 Speaker 1: that are associated with agriculture, but before the apparent invention 479 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: of agriculture. So a lot of things you might think 480 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 1: of as as associated with agriculture, like a sedentary existence, uh, 481 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 1: you know, remaining in one place for prolonged periods of time, 482 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: things like cemeteries and architecture and certain types of culinary innovations. 483 00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 1: All these things we think of as associated as as 484 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 1: sort of dimming from the farming existence. But then the 485 00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:07,880 Speaker 1: Neatufians showed some evidence of these practices before they had 486 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: settled farming. So you might think of the Natufians as 487 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 1: sort of classic hunter gatherers who had started making a 488 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,639 Speaker 1: bridge to the kinds of things we see in the 489 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:22,679 Speaker 1: sedentary agricultural lifestyle popping up in in millennia later without 490 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:27,359 Speaker 1: technically planting crops yet, or at least not doing that much. Okay, Yeah, 491 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 1: so yeah, it makes sense that this would be the 492 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 1: type of people where you might find something like the spoon, 493 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 1: which you know, as will continue to discuss here, he 494 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:39,119 Speaker 1: is seemingly inherently linked with you know, ultimately it's widespread 495 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 1: use with the with the the agricultural revolution. Right. So 496 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,440 Speaker 1: here this is another thing you might recall the reason 497 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: it's come up on the show before we talked about 498 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,639 Speaker 1: the Natufian culture in the context of our invention episode 499 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,960 Speaker 1: on bread and Toast, remember this, Rob, Yeah, so there 500 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,200 Speaker 1: was this study that we talked about by Iran's heg 501 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 1: we at All, published in Proceedings of the National Academy 502 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:08,159 Speaker 1: of Sciences. And this was the Bread before Farming study, 503 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: which looked at evidence from Natuffian cooking sites in Jordan's 504 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: from about fourteen thousand years ago, so again before there 505 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 1: was really any signs of organized agriculture, uh, And they 506 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 1: found what looked like the charred remains of bread crumbs 507 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 1: in the cooking sites. In other words, it looks like 508 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: these people were making bread before they were planting cereal crops, 509 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,119 Speaker 1: So this would have meant harvesting grain from wild grasses 510 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: and then you know, doing the culinary innovation work of 511 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,399 Speaker 1: putting together these grains with other ingredients to make a 512 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: kind of bread. I think this would This would have 513 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 1: been iron corn wheat, which is a wild strain of 514 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 1: wheat grass, and then something called the roots of club 515 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 1: rush tubers. And then also there were some other things 516 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 1: mixed in the spices, like mustard and trace amounts of barley. 517 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:00,200 Speaker 1: And it looks like what happened is they would make 518 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 1: this dough out of these grains and then cook it 519 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:07,680 Speaker 1: on the heated stone walls lining their fire pits, which 520 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 1: is actually kind of similar to the way that Indian 521 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 1: non bread is made in the walls of a tanduri 522 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 1: even today. So anyway, that was the context on Yeah, 523 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:20,240 Speaker 1: so Natufians apparently being grain innovators, people who are coming 524 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,360 Speaker 1: up with new and potentially revolutionary ways to cook with 525 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:27,399 Speaker 1: the grains of wild grasses, and of course that would 526 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: that would have been mean potentially not only bread, but 527 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 1: bread's sibling porridges, right exactly, right, So coming back to this, 528 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 1: two thousand eleven study by mar at All. Remember this 529 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 1: is the one from the one called a unique human 530 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: fox burial from a pre Natufian cemetery in the Levant, 531 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 1: and so I just want to read from the author's 532 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 1: abstract here so so we can see what's going on. 533 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 1: They write, quote new human burials from Northern Jordan's provide 534 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 1: important insights into the appearance of cemeteries and the nature 535 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: of human animal relationships within mortuary contexts during the Epipalaeolithic period. 536 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 1: So this is roughly twenty three thousand years ago to 537 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 1: about eleven thousand, six hundred years ago, picking up with 538 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:15,160 Speaker 1: them in the Levant, reinforcing a socio ideological relationship that 539 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: goes beyond predator prey. Previous work suggests that archaeological features 540 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 1: indicative of social complexity occur suddenly during the latest Epipaleolithic phase, 541 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 1: the Natufian. Again, that's roughly fourteen five hundred years ago 542 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,880 Speaker 1: to about eleven thousand, six hundred years ago. These features 543 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 1: include sedentism, so a subtled existence, cemeteries, architecture, food production 544 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 1: including animal domestication, and burials with elaborate mortuary treatments. So 545 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 1: I think this is what we were talking about just 546 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 1: a little while ago, the idea of settled existence and 547 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 1: showing cultural practices that we associate with with agricultural societies. 548 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 1: They write, our findings from the pre Natufian Middle Epipalaeolithic 549 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: cemetery of Uyun al hamm Um demonstrate that joint human 550 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 1: animal mortuary practices appear earlier in the Epipalaeolithic. We describe 551 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 1: the earliest human fox burial in the Near East, where 552 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 1: the remains of dogs have been found associated with human 553 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: burials at a number of Natufian sites. This is the 554 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 1: first time that a fox has been documented in association 555 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 1: with human interments, predating the Natufian and with a particular 556 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 1: suite of grave goods. Analysis of the human and animal 557 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,720 Speaker 1: bones in their associated artifacts provides critical data on the 558 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,720 Speaker 1: nature and timing of these newly developing relationships between people 559 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 1: and animals prior to the appearance of domesticated dogs in 560 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 1: the Natufian. Yeah, So in these graves they do find 561 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: an example of humans buried alongside a fox and coming 562 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 1: to the spoon. In particular, there is one of these graves, 563 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 1: it's Grave eight, which they say they find a spoon 564 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 1: slash spatula that consists of quote, a tibial shaft fragment 565 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 1: from a red deer service a laugh us with one 566 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: end broken at a at an oblique angle and tapering 567 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: to a rough point, while the other end has been 568 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 1: smoothed to form a shallow depression. So it appears this 569 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 1: is one of the earliest clear indications of a spoon 570 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 1: in the archaeological record from this pre Natufian burial site. 571 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 1: And this is so interesting, uh something, I don't know 572 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 1: what sparks are going off in my brain. You might 573 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 1: not imagine to find these things going together, some of 574 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,360 Speaker 1: the earliest clear evidence of a spoon and some of 575 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 1: the earliest known burials of a human with a fox buddy. Yeah, yeah, 576 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:42,959 Speaker 1: Like you're attempted to try and connect the to like 577 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 1: maybe spoons are helpful for feeding that foxes. I mean, 578 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:50,160 Speaker 1: I in in the care of a pat we do 579 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 1: find ourselves using spoons. Oh you know, I mean, I 580 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 1: gotta you gotta get the food out of a can 581 00:31:55,760 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 1: one way or another, You've gotta. I wasn't trying to 582 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,440 Speaker 1: be that direct in the connection, but it does. Yeah, yeah, 583 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 1: I mean I see what you're saying there. It suggests 584 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 1: that there's some kind of a ferment underlying both perhaps, 585 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,160 Speaker 1: But anyway, coming back to that first study, UH, Stefanovitch 586 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: at all summarizing other early evidence for spoons in the 587 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 1: archaeological record, Stefanovitch at All right quote bone spoons were 588 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:25,960 Speaker 1: also present in the Natufian again, that's a fourteen point 589 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,200 Speaker 1: five to eleven point five thousand years ago, and in 590 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 1: Mesolithic Europe in the material culture of the Circumbaltic hunter gatherers. However, 591 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 1: the ubiquity and quantity of spoons in bone tool assemblages 592 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 1: significantly increases in the Neolithic period, especially in the early 593 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 1: Neolithic of Anatolia and the Balkans. And they are primarily 594 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 1: a Neolithic phenomenon. So once we hit the Neolithic era, UH, 595 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 1: there's agriculture spreading all around where in this final stage 596 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:57,680 Speaker 1: of the Stone Age tool set, UH, spoons start showing 597 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 1: up all over the place. And this really does appear 598 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 1: to be connected to the advent of agriculture. Humans are 599 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 1: living a more settled existence. They're practicing both the farming 600 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 1: of cereal crops and animal agriculture, which importantly provides milk, 601 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 1: and UH spoons are showing up all over the place. 602 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 1: So what does this mean? And to me this gets 603 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 1: into the even more fascinating part of the Stevanovitch study 604 00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,120 Speaker 1: because what it's actually looking at here is the is 605 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 1: the invention of the earliest spoons in the context of 606 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 1: broader shifts in food technology, agriculture, and especially childcare. So 607 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:33,719 Speaker 1: I as reading a good write up of the study 608 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 1: by archaeologist and science writer Christina Kilgrove on her Forbes blog. 609 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:40,479 Speaker 1: You can go read that blog post if you if 610 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 1: you want to know more, but just to hit some 611 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 1: of the points from it. The site that they're looking 612 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 1: at here in in the study is Groad Starchvo, which 613 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 1: is on the bank of the Danube in Serbia. And 614 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 1: these artifacts, I think we're discovered sometime in the nineteen thirties. 615 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 1: In the nineteen thirties, there's roughly like fifty small bone 616 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 1: tools that were found here and they were out of 617 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 1: cow bone. They were dated back to roughly eight thousand 618 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 1: years ago or so, which would have been during the Neolithic, 619 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 1: and previous archaeologists had suggested, well, maybe these little bone 620 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:15,040 Speaker 1: tools were used for scraping flour from grinding stones, or 621 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,319 Speaker 1: maybe for maybe making some kind of markings on on 622 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 1: ceramic pottery or ceramics in general, or maybe they were 623 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,719 Speaker 1: somehow used in some kind of cosmetic use like applying 624 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:29,400 Speaker 1: applying pigments to the body or face or two clothing. 625 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,960 Speaker 1: But the authors of this twenty nineteen study by Stefanovitch 626 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,160 Speaker 1: at All argue something different. They say, no, these tools 627 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 1: are spoons, and that quote they were used for feeding babies, 628 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,319 Speaker 1: and that marks on them can be connected to the 629 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 1: usual mouthing behavior meaning biting, nibbling, gnawing, and pulling of 630 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,920 Speaker 1: children who may up to four years of age mouth 631 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:55,239 Speaker 1: objects up to fifty times during one hour. And they 632 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,239 Speaker 1: tested this by looking by doing bite mark analysis. They 633 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 1: were comparing marks left on these bone tools to marks 634 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:05,440 Speaker 1: left by dental models based on the teeth of babies 635 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 1: and children today. And what they say is they found 636 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:11,200 Speaker 1: a match. The marks on these bone tools really made 637 00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:14,520 Speaker 1: it look very clear that babies and young children were 638 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: chewing on them, and that these probably were spoons used 639 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,879 Speaker 1: for feeding babies. And so here I want to read 640 00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:24,040 Speaker 1: a section from kil Roves right up quote the discovery 641 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:28,160 Speaker 1: of feeding spoons is highly significant archaeologically. In the Neolithic 642 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,319 Speaker 1: time period, there came a series of dramatic transformations for 643 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:34,480 Speaker 1: human culture, a more sedentary way of life thanks to 644 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:38,360 Speaker 1: the first plant and animal domestication. This so called Neolithic 645 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:43,840 Speaker 1: revolution also affected the population structure. Reduced mobility, a shift 646 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 1: towards high calorie cereal foods, and a reduction in the 647 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,839 Speaker 1: length of time that mother's breast fed their babies led 648 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:55,080 Speaker 1: to an incredibly rapid population growth. And as she notes 649 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,279 Speaker 1: that even though the demographic growth of humans during the 650 00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,799 Speaker 1: Neolithic period should be understood, it in a major way 651 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,319 Speaker 1: in terms of what mothers and babies were doing at 652 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:07,240 Speaker 1: the time, this area of prehistory has often been understudied, 653 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,280 Speaker 1: and I think that reflects a general trend in in 654 00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 1: the study of history and and deep prehistory, is that 655 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:17,239 Speaker 1: there's sometimes not enough attention paid to domestic life in 656 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:22,120 Speaker 1: the raising of children. Yeah, yeah, more focused on what 657 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,960 Speaker 1: the hunters were doing and so forth. And so Stefanovitch 658 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 1: and colleagues in this paper argue that quote, the increased 659 00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:32,280 Speaker 1: number of babies in the Neolithic demanded new daily life 660 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:36,839 Speaker 1: routines not only for prehistoric parents, but for the whole community. 661 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,800 Speaker 1: So there's this idea that maybe child rearing here became 662 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,320 Speaker 1: less of something that was just going on directly between 663 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,960 Speaker 1: the mother and her own infant, but became more of 664 00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:51,399 Speaker 1: a community activity where other people could pitch in with 665 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:55,080 Speaker 1: things like feeding the babies and uh and so other. 666 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,760 Speaker 1: There's some other things we can learn from physical features 667 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,839 Speaker 1: of the spoons apart from the bite mark works. One 668 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 1: is that these bone spoons took a lot of work 669 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:08,080 Speaker 1: to produce, apparently experimentally, maybe around twenty five hours of labor. 670 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,200 Speaker 1: That it's hard to know again always with these experimental studies, 671 00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:14,439 Speaker 1: like how exactly that would translate to two original labor 672 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:16,160 Speaker 1: time in the Stone Age, But yeah, it's clear they 673 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,399 Speaker 1: would have taken time to create. This was not just 674 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,640 Speaker 1: like something that was basically a nature fact. It took 675 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:25,800 Speaker 1: work so different from like a modern plastic spoon, where 676 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 1: oftentimes you get it for free with the meal that 677 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,200 Speaker 1: you you purchased, and then you might throw it away 678 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:36,439 Speaker 1: without even using it. Yeah, yeah, that always, Yeah, every 679 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,239 Speaker 1: time that happens. I don't recommend it. I'm not saying 680 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:41,480 Speaker 1: that's the way to live your life, but that's where 681 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:45,400 Speaker 1: we are as a as a disposable culture. But anyway, 682 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:47,880 Speaker 1: another thing about these these bones spoons is that they 683 00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:53,160 Speaker 1: represent evidence of infants being weaned on new types of food. 684 00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:56,440 Speaker 1: This was new. This food was new technology. I know 685 00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:58,520 Speaker 1: it's weird to think about it that way, but I 686 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:00,640 Speaker 1: think it really was like there were being weaned on 687 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:04,360 Speaker 1: new types of food. Uh. The implications are animal milk 688 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:08,200 Speaker 1: and ground cereal grains. Again, the depressions in these spoons 689 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,680 Speaker 1: are shallow, indicating that it was likely porridge that the 690 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,080 Speaker 1: children were being fed here when they were making these 691 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,359 Speaker 1: teeth marks on the spoons. And this also represents, again 692 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:22,520 Speaker 1: quoting from killgrowth here, new kinds of organization of baby care. 693 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 1: Given the new easy to prepare types of gruel, probably 694 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 1: allowed other persons to be involved in baby weaning. So anyway, 695 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:33,120 Speaker 1: this makes me think about spoons and a whole new 696 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,880 Speaker 1: light as like a crucial piece of technology in the 697 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:41,839 Speaker 1: development of human culture, especially as this relates to uh, 698 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:45,640 Speaker 1: what childcare consisted of and who could do it? Yeah, 699 00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,520 Speaker 1: because like you said, suddenly they're more babies. Uh, and 700 00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:51,080 Speaker 1: then you have this more of a like a sedendary, local, 701 00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:54,640 Speaker 1: localized lifestyle. And yeah, other people can pitch in. Uh. 702 00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,280 Speaker 1: And and here's the the tool that makes it possible. 703 00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,840 Speaker 1: Here's the here's the the culinary and tension that helps 704 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:03,280 Speaker 1: make it possible in the form of the porridge, which 705 00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:05,360 Speaker 1: which is very much a you know, a creation. You 706 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:09,680 Speaker 1: don't find naturally occurring porridge in the wild. So this paper, 707 00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,160 Speaker 1: I will say, really blew my mind I will not 708 00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 1: think about spoons the same way after this one. All right, well, 709 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:25,560 Speaker 1: should we get into some other examples of cultural spoons 710 00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:29,360 Speaker 1: and early spoons? All right? Well, I was you know 711 00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,920 Speaker 1: as a as a as a vis Becca brings this 712 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:37,760 Speaker 1: up there. There's an author, James Gibbs, who discussed, uh, 713 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,640 Speaker 1: the Egyptian spoon, which you alluded to earlier. Earlier, the 714 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:45,960 Speaker 1: Egyptians produced small round bronze spoons around one thousand b C. 715 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:48,920 Speaker 1: And these were really neat because they had they had 716 00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,239 Speaker 1: sharp points at the end of the stem. So on 717 00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:53,759 Speaker 1: one end of the of the spoon you have you know, 718 00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:55,880 Speaker 1: the spoon, the little bowl of the spoon, and the 719 00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:59,600 Speaker 1: other hand and there's a skewer of sorts. You might 720 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:03,840 Speaker 1: also call it the one tieme fork. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. 721 00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:06,120 Speaker 1: And but the thing is, it's kind of a mystery 722 00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:09,959 Speaker 1: of what this was actually used for. So it's thought 723 00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:13,280 Speaker 1: that you you either um, you know, flipped your spoon 724 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,480 Speaker 1: around and you and then use the spear to like 725 00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:18,000 Speaker 1: grab bits of meat off your plate, again using it 726 00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:21,120 Speaker 1: just like a a one pronged fork or and this 727 00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:25,040 Speaker 1: is neat. It was used to extract snails, so it's 728 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:28,799 Speaker 1: for digging around in there. Yeah, so I have to man, 729 00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:32,799 Speaker 1: I'm not a big snail consumer, uh and and never was. 730 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:34,759 Speaker 1: But I was looking around. I was like, Okay, you know, 731 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,160 Speaker 1: scargo is a thing. It's part of French cuisine. Uh, 732 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:40,440 Speaker 1: I was. I was looking around at utensils for that, 733 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:44,680 Speaker 1: and there are specialized utensils for snail eating for scargo, 734 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:48,360 Speaker 1: though it seems to generally revolve around tongs and narrow 735 00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:52,600 Speaker 1: two pronged forks um. However, I looked around a little 736 00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:55,680 Speaker 1: bit more. My Amazon search results are totally jack now 737 00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:58,920 Speaker 1: if they're just gonna try and sell me weird or 738 00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:03,800 Speaker 1: a typical um eating utensils. Now, but I do see 739 00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:07,879 Speaker 1: modern seafood fork spoon combos that remind me a lot 740 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:10,520 Speaker 1: of the Egyptian description. You know, like they're narrow with 741 00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:12,719 Speaker 1: like a little spoon on one end, and it's like 742 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:16,000 Speaker 1: a thing that's it's more like a little shive on 743 00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,560 Speaker 1: the other that's used for digging around in um like 744 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:23,279 Speaker 1: things like crabs, picking crab, which is interesting because that, 745 00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:26,799 Speaker 1: of course is something that is often done with fingers. 746 00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,800 Speaker 1: Like fingers work really well for picking crab, if you 747 00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,440 Speaker 1: don't mind your fingers being stabbed by tiny pieces of 748 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:37,080 Speaker 1: shell constantly and and just getting all nasty. Yeah, that's 749 00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,200 Speaker 1: one of the things I always feel like, Uh, I 750 00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:42,080 Speaker 1: enjoy eating crab, but whenever I do, I feel very 751 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,680 Speaker 1: self conscious because I feel like I look disgusting, like 752 00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:47,200 Speaker 1: that my fingertips are all covered in that juice and 753 00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:49,920 Speaker 1: it's just all over the place. Yeah, it's one of 754 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,000 Speaker 1: those things that I I enjoy for a little bit 755 00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:54,799 Speaker 1: and then I'm increasingly over it because but it does 756 00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:56,839 Speaker 1: make me feel like a total hunter gatherer, you know, 757 00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,360 Speaker 1: like I'm just like like I'm just digging through the 758 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:03,080 Speaker 1: raw animal. It's it's a kind of eating that for me. 759 00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:06,640 Speaker 1: It does not facilitate conversation at the table, you know. 760 00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:09,359 Speaker 1: It's like you don't you don't imagine like sitting around 761 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,680 Speaker 1: cracking on a crab while you're also having a stimulating conversation. 762 00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,799 Speaker 1: It's just what's going on is between you and the crab. Well, 763 00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:20,120 Speaker 1: and then sometimes there's a there's communication about the crabs. 764 00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,839 Speaker 1: You're talking about the search for the meat, and if 765 00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,239 Speaker 1: you have younger members at the table, it's about then 766 00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:29,640 Speaker 1: helping them acquire the meat. So I don't know, um, 767 00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,160 Speaker 1: but but in anyway, as far as Egyptian spoons go, 768 00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,319 Speaker 1: I've also read that it that spoons don't seem to 769 00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:38,880 Speaker 1: have been really in use in pre dynastic Egypt. So 770 00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:41,959 Speaker 1: spoons came with the rise of the pharaohs, so food 771 00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,760 Speaker 1: would have largely been consumed prior to this by hand 772 00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,239 Speaker 1: at the table, which is you know, still again a 773 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:51,720 Speaker 1: feature of various culinary traditions, but but you do see, 774 00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:54,000 Speaker 1: you know, the rise of the pharaohs the rise of 775 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:57,160 Speaker 1: the spoon um and you see some very ornate spoons 776 00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:00,319 Speaker 1: emerging as well well. Something that I think emerges very 777 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,520 Speaker 1: early in human cooking and culinary traditions and is still 778 00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:05,960 Speaker 1: a major feature of a lot of food today is 779 00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:09,799 Speaker 1: the is the spoon that is edible, where you know, 780 00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:13,280 Speaker 1: a lot of cultures focus very much on like scupable 781 00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:16,000 Speaker 1: breads that function as a kind of spoon, where you'll 782 00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:18,040 Speaker 1: have like a stew type food and then you will 783 00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:21,000 Speaker 1: have a type of flatbread or something that used to 784 00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:24,640 Speaker 1: scoop up or sop up the stew and then shovel 785 00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:26,799 Speaker 1: that into the mouth and then you eat it as well, 786 00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,160 Speaker 1: which is I don't know that that's very appealing in 787 00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,759 Speaker 1: many ways, and even that might be the cultural precursor 788 00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:34,000 Speaker 1: to foods you might not think of, is very connected 789 00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:38,480 Speaker 1: to the culinary history, like nachos with nacho cheese sauce, 790 00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:40,719 Speaker 1: you know, or you dip it in. That's that's an 791 00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:43,839 Speaker 1: edible spoon, right, the chip is I mean in a way, 792 00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:45,400 Speaker 1: it's kind of getting to the idea of all right, 793 00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:47,400 Speaker 1: we have these grains, what can we make, Well, we 794 00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:49,640 Speaker 1: can make porridge, and we can make bread, and then 795 00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:52,360 Speaker 1: we can use the bread to eat the porridge. Genius. 796 00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:55,360 Speaker 1: UM like that basic motif. You've seen a lot of 797 00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:57,600 Speaker 1: different cuisines, and I love it. I mean I love 798 00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:01,440 Speaker 1: I love ei Opian cuisine where you use the special 799 00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:03,799 Speaker 1: bread uh. And then of course there's a lot of 800 00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:06,240 Speaker 1: a lot of this in um in various Indian cuisines 801 00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:08,440 Speaker 1: as well. But yeah, I think like you can find 802 00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:11,080 Speaker 1: it pretty much everywhere. Like every culture that has bread 803 00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:12,960 Speaker 1: or some sort of bread like product is going to 804 00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:17,040 Speaker 1: have some sort of sopping action going on. Now, R 805 00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:20,960 Speaker 1: Resbecca spends a fair amount of time talking about Chinese spoons, 806 00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:24,360 Speaker 1: in particular the tongue chi. So this is this is 807 00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:26,839 Speaker 1: a soup spoon, and you've likely seen one of these 808 00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:30,239 Speaker 1: before if you've ever, uh had had Chinese food, say 809 00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,840 Speaker 1: a Chinese restaurant or even other Asian cuisines. It is 810 00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:36,279 Speaker 1: a short It has a short, thick handle and a 811 00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:40,120 Speaker 1: deep flat bowl, and they're really great for soups. They 812 00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:43,040 Speaker 1: hold more than a traditional Western soup spoon, and at 813 00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:45,200 Speaker 1: least in my experience, I feel like it can be 814 00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:47,880 Speaker 1: more stable, and it can be more suitable for cooling, 815 00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:50,680 Speaker 1: you know, for blowing on the soup. Maybe that's just 816 00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:54,279 Speaker 1: all in my mind, but that's been my experience. Oh yeah, 817 00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:57,759 Speaker 1: I know what you're talking about. In Resbecca's article that 818 00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:02,200 Speaker 1: she goes a lot into like this Chinese spoon versus 819 00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:04,759 Speaker 1: the Western spoon and are they at all comparable? Are 820 00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:07,799 Speaker 1: they really different things? Um? And I just refer to 821 00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:09,680 Speaker 1: you that article for more of that. But at the 822 00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:12,280 Speaker 1: point they point out that the tank essentially means soup 823 00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:15,280 Speaker 1: in this context, but in the Chinese usage it's water 824 00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:18,280 Speaker 1: plus lots of different things. Uh, And it's a different 825 00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:21,440 Speaker 1: apparently from a thick soup or a soup that doesn't 826 00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:23,960 Speaker 1: have anything in it, like a you know, like a 827 00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:27,040 Speaker 1: pure broth type of soup, each of which have their 828 00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:30,760 Speaker 1: own words in Mandarin. Its origins, however, and it's exact 829 00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:35,720 Speaker 1: design seem linked to North Chinese millet used in kanji, 830 00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:38,800 Speaker 1: which is a lot like Western porridge and gruel. We 831 00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:41,200 Speaker 1: talked about this a good bit in our chopsticks episode 832 00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:47,400 Speaker 1: because the more like the earlier reliance on on millet. Uh, 833 00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:49,359 Speaker 1: there's no use for chopsticks, Like, what are you gonna 834 00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:51,600 Speaker 1: do eat porridge with with chopsticks? No, it doesn't make 835 00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:54,480 Speaker 1: any sense. Uh. It's only as you move away from 836 00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:56,359 Speaker 1: that and you get more into rice that you see 837 00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:58,640 Speaker 1: the rise of the chopstick. Yeah. And if you recall 838 00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:03,040 Speaker 1: from from our episode about chopsticks that the earliest evidence 839 00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:06,360 Speaker 1: is that chopsticks were originally used more as a cooking 840 00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:10,160 Speaker 1: utensil than as an eating utensil. Yeah. And I have 841 00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:12,920 Speaker 1: to say, after we did that article, I bought myself 842 00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:17,400 Speaker 1: some cooking chopsticks and I cannot go back to the 843 00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:20,640 Speaker 1: old way, Like they're so useful when when I'm when 844 00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:22,759 Speaker 1: I'm frying things and I need to turn little bits 845 00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:27,000 Speaker 1: of say like um like tofu cubes or or something 846 00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:28,839 Speaker 1: of that nature, when they need to turn those over 847 00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:31,720 Speaker 1: in the pan, and of course do so without being burned. 848 00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:34,160 Speaker 1: I've just become to come to really rely on those. 849 00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,640 Speaker 1: I also really liked them for if for situations where 850 00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:41,280 Speaker 1: I dropped something down into the top of the stove 851 00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:43,279 Speaker 1: and I want to get it out before it is 852 00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:45,759 Speaker 1: burnt up, I can reach down there real quick and 853 00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:49,279 Speaker 1: grab them with my cooking chopsticks. Oh nice, I mean yeah. 854 00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:51,680 Speaker 1: I think having that kind of precision is something you'll 855 00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:55,480 Speaker 1: see among a lot of cooks who are operating at 856 00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:58,280 Speaker 1: a very high level, like in in fancy restaurant kitchens, 857 00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:00,640 Speaker 1: a lot of times you will see more use of 858 00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:05,640 Speaker 1: tongs and and even tweezers have the tweezer preparation than 859 00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,319 Speaker 1: you would in the average home kitchen. I think now 860 00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:11,800 Speaker 1: back to to porridge, though we we've we've already discussed 861 00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:13,480 Speaker 1: you know, the basics here, but I think it is 862 00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:16,200 Speaker 1: kind of neat to think about porridge as the patient 863 00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:20,800 Speaker 1: zero for all semi liquid foods. You know, like cultures, 864 00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:24,040 Speaker 1: nobody really abandons porridge and kanji. I mean, these are 865 00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:28,640 Speaker 1: things that even the world. The word ruele has certain connotations, 866 00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:31,239 Speaker 1: but these are all things that, if if prepared right, 867 00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:33,759 Speaker 1: can be can be excellent, and if nothing else, they 868 00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:35,960 Speaker 1: can be a comfort food. So, uh, you know, they 869 00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:38,200 Speaker 1: never really go away. But then we develop all these 870 00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:42,400 Speaker 1: other things that are the porridge like, right, things for 871 00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,520 Speaker 1: which the spoon makes all the sense in the world. 872 00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:47,440 Speaker 1: And then if you're taking and then again if you're 873 00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:52,279 Speaker 1: mixing things, measuring things again, it becomes increasingly important to 874 00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:54,640 Speaker 1: have the spoon at hand. All right, well, I think 875 00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:56,839 Speaker 1: maybe we need to call it there for part one, 876 00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:59,759 Speaker 1: but there's so much more interesting spoons stuff to talk about. 877 00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:04,160 Speaker 1: We've given ourselves the spoon challenge. We we dared ourselves 878 00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:07,120 Speaker 1: to to talk about spoons for two whole parts of 879 00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,600 Speaker 1: the show, and and by god, we're gonna do it. 880 00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:11,400 Speaker 1: That's right. And we already have some stuff in the 881 00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:13,360 Speaker 1: notes we didn't get to. But now we're going to 882 00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:15,520 Speaker 1: see what else is out there, and I don't think 883 00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:19,200 Speaker 1: we're gonna be disappointed. Uh So, tune in next time 884 00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:23,560 Speaker 1: as we continue our look at the spoon, a fantastic 885 00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:27,879 Speaker 1: bit of culinary technology that has never gone away. We'll 886 00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:31,880 Speaker 1: never go away. Uh So, uh yeah, tune in on Thursday. 887 00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:33,839 Speaker 1: In the meantime, if you would like to check out 888 00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:36,520 Speaker 1: other episodes of Stuff to Blow Your Mind and even Invention, 889 00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:38,640 Speaker 1: you can head on over to the Stuff to Blow 890 00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:41,440 Speaker 1: your Mind podcast feed. That's where we'll find all this 891 00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:44,400 Speaker 1: stuff on Monday's. We do listener mail Tuesdays and Thursdays, 892 00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:47,000 Speaker 1: or core episodes Wednesdays, so when we tend to publish 893 00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:49,440 Speaker 1: the artifact, and then on Fridays we have weird ol 894 00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:52,960 Speaker 1: Cinema for you, uh with a vault episode on the weekends. Also, 895 00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:56,640 Speaker 1: Invention has its own podcast feed. We're no longer updating 896 00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:58,960 Speaker 1: that feed, but if you want to find all of 897 00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:02,520 Speaker 1: the Invention episode the older ones UH in one spot, 898 00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:04,520 Speaker 1: you can find it there. Just go to wherever you 899 00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:08,440 Speaker 1: get your podcast and look for Invention. But anyway, wherever 900 00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:10,480 Speaker 1: you get any of these podcasts, just rate, review and 901 00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:13,160 Speaker 1: subscribe as a great way to help us out. Huge 902 00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:16,600 Speaker 1: thanks as always to our excellent audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. 903 00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:18,440 Speaker 1: If you would like to get in touch with us 904 00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:20,920 Speaker 1: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest 905 00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:22,800 Speaker 1: a topic for the future, or just to say hello, 906 00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:25,319 Speaker 1: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow 907 00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:35,120 Speaker 1: your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow your Mind is 908 00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:37,880 Speaker 1: production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts for my 909 00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:40,960 Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or 910 00:49:40,960 --> 00:50:00,880 Speaker 1: wherever you listening to your favorite shows. No no, no