WEBVTT - 2026 Update: Elyse 0:00:15.210 --> 0:00:22.970 Pushkin. Hi, Jonathan, Hi, come on in. You should make 0:00:23.009 --> 0:00:25.049 yourself at home in the studio because it is like 0:00:25.090 --> 0:00:26.810 a sec you've been spending so much time in here. 0:00:27.010 --> 0:00:29.249 Yeah, I actually sometimes just sleep in here. It's just 0:00:29.330 --> 0:00:30.850 easier than having to go home. 0:00:30.890 --> 0:00:32.250 I don't know if you should be telling me that 0:00:32.330 --> 0:00:36.850 this might be a conversation out with hr Yeah, what 0:00:37.370 --> 0:00:38.610 are we listening to today? 0:00:38.970 --> 0:00:42.089 Speaking of the studio, Today we're going to revisit an 0:00:42.090 --> 0:00:45.650 episode that started with us sitting around in the studio. 0:00:46.250 --> 0:00:47.210 It's called a Lease. 0:00:47.650 --> 0:00:49.850 Yeah, of course I love this episode. 0:00:49.930 --> 0:00:52.250 It's a really good one that came to us, as 0:00:52.290 --> 0:00:54.889 you'll hear, in an unconventional way. 0:00:55.090 --> 0:00:57.610 Yeah, we were trying something new. We were trying to 0:00:57.610 --> 0:00:59.970 do a call in show, but in our case that 0:01:00.050 --> 0:01:04.289 basically failed, but it succeeded because we wouldn't have had 0:01:04.290 --> 0:01:05.210 this story without it. 0:01:05.690 --> 0:01:08.530 And we have a check in with Alease at the 0:01:08.610 --> 0:01:12.050 end about what's happened since. And truly some of the 0:01:12.170 --> 0:01:16.610 wildest updates I would say of any of these update conversations. 0:01:16.690 --> 0:01:19.010 Yeah, I know, do you have a tendency to to 0:01:19.010 --> 0:01:23.450 to skew towards clickbait, But in this case it's true 0:01:23.810 --> 0:01:24.850 it's very eventful. 0:01:25.130 --> 0:01:25.570 Yeah. 0:01:25.730 --> 0:01:28.650 What else is there to say to quote? 0:01:28.850 --> 0:01:29.289 To quote? 0:01:29.370 --> 0:01:29.690 Jay Z? 0:01:30.010 --> 0:01:31.130 What more can I say? 0:01:34.450 --> 0:01:34.730 Hello? 0:01:35.330 --> 0:01:39.970 Yeah, okay, I thought you left the studio. Yeah, let's lean. 0:01:39.850 --> 0:01:42.929 Back, let the story unfold and let. 0:01:42.810 --> 0:01:47.450 This story take us away. Oh but before any of that, 0:01:48.650 --> 0:01:58.930 a word from our sponsors. Hey, how is it that 0:01:58.970 --> 0:02:01.370 a seal keeps balls on their nose? 0:02:02.290 --> 0:02:02.330 Go? 0:02:02.490 --> 0:02:04.570 Now, no, no, I have something serious. 0:02:05.970 --> 0:02:07.610 If I happen to groceres in the house and I've 0:02:07.610 --> 0:02:08.329 got to paint the doors. 0:02:08.450 --> 0:02:11.450 So you're painting the door to your house? Yes, it 0:02:11.530 --> 0:02:12.769 pays the door red. 0:02:12.970 --> 0:02:13.850 It's gonna be very nice. 0:02:13.930 --> 0:02:17.450 But you know what a red door symbolizes, right, No, 0:02:18.610 --> 0:02:22.530 le rouge, there is a bordello. You're kidding, right, That's 0:02:22.530 --> 0:02:24.690 how sailors would know. They would have them down by 0:02:24.730 --> 0:02:28.010 the viewport and they would be able to know where 0:02:28.010 --> 0:02:35.650 they could kidding make whoopee for for money? 0:02:35.450 --> 0:02:40.049 Sorry, who's that? 0:02:40.090 --> 0:02:40.770 That's my neighbor. 0:02:41.010 --> 0:02:42.490 Could you ask him about the red door? 0:02:43.530 --> 0:02:43.730 Zach? 0:02:48.450 --> 0:02:48.889 I need this. 0:03:04.410 --> 0:03:09.250 From Gimblet Media. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is Heavyweight 0:03:09.850 --> 0:03:12.610 Today's episode, ilise. 0:03:25.090 --> 0:03:27.889 So now what happens They're just gonna call We'll see. 0:03:28.410 --> 0:03:31.370 Oh boy, get ready. For a while back, my producers 0:03:31.410 --> 0:03:35.250 and I decided to try a phone in episode. Larry King, 0:03:35.530 --> 0:03:39.650 Rush Limbaugh and other Goldstein esque personalities had found success 0:03:39.690 --> 0:03:42.810 with them. So why, I wondered, from the depths of 0:03:42.850 --> 0:03:51.290 my ignorance, couldn't die and so full of hubris and hope, 0:03:51.650 --> 0:03:54.250 we open the phone lines and invite the whole world 0:03:54.370 --> 0:03:57.130 to call in with a small moment from their past, 0:03:57.930 --> 0:04:01.970 something to revisit and resolve, all during the course of 0:04:02.010 --> 0:04:07.410 a five minute phone call. This is why I got 0:04:07.410 --> 0:04:11.130 into this business, the know the feeling of live radio. 0:04:12.250 --> 0:04:14.450 As I'm to learn the thing about a phone in 0:04:14.530 --> 0:04:18.050 show is that you need people to phone in and 0:04:18.130 --> 0:04:19.089 nobody is. 0:04:22.370 --> 0:04:24.330 Cause everyone's day. 0:04:26.289 --> 0:04:28.890 But just as I'm starting to wonder if Gimblet Media 0:04:29.049 --> 0:04:33.250 has forgotten to pay its telephone bill again, Oh here 0:04:33.289 --> 0:04:33.529 we go. 0:04:33.650 --> 0:04:36.610 We're answering. 0:04:36.890 --> 0:04:37.290 All right. 0:04:38.609 --> 0:04:40.210 Hello, this is Jonathan speaking. 0:04:41.450 --> 0:04:42.849 Hi Jonathan, how's it going? 0:04:43.169 --> 0:04:45.729 It's going okay? Is this uh? What's your name? 0:04:46.210 --> 0:04:46.609 Elise? 0:04:46.810 --> 0:04:49.129 This is You're very surprised I got through. This is 0:04:49.169 --> 0:04:49.770 so exciting. 0:04:51.289 --> 0:04:55.849 I guess you really lucked out. Elise is a longtime listener, 0:04:55.929 --> 0:04:59.249 first time caller from Washington, d C. And As it 0:04:59.289 --> 0:05:02.170 turns out, her call proves not only the first of 0:05:02.210 --> 0:05:05.529 the day, but also the last. And this is not 0:05:05.690 --> 0:05:08.929 just because we don't receive any other calls. It's because 0:05:08.929 --> 0:05:11.769 I completely drawn in by the story at least tells 0:05:11.810 --> 0:05:18.289 me about herself and her dad. What's his name, Billy? Billy? 0:05:18.690 --> 0:05:24.890 Yeah, so I guess I basically I am estranged from 0:05:24.890 --> 0:05:25.329 my father. 0:05:26.849 --> 0:05:29.489 When Aalise was a kid, Billy was the fun parent, 0:05:30.010 --> 0:05:32.210 the one who always had hours to play with her, 0:05:32.810 --> 0:05:34.969 the guy who, in spite of being something of a 0:05:35.049 --> 0:05:38.969 macho man, gave himself over to playing beauty salon, even 0:05:39.010 --> 0:05:43.609 allowing Elise to paint his toenails. Before the estrangement, Billy 0:05:43.609 --> 0:05:47.009 and Elise were really close, which is why not having 0:05:47.049 --> 0:05:49.889 any relationship now hurts the way it does. 0:05:50.929 --> 0:05:53.490 She was my dad, Like our idea of a family 0:05:53.570 --> 0:05:55.930 vacation was to like show up in a country with 0:05:55.929 --> 0:05:57.969 no plan and like rent a car and just like 0:05:58.089 --> 0:06:00.849 drive around. And it was amazing, Like that's what that's what. 0:06:00.770 --> 0:06:02.770 Life with dad would like. It was like every day 0:06:02.849 --> 0:06:03.490 was an adventure. 0:06:09.529 --> 0:06:12.009 Even the way Billy met Alisa's mom was like something 0:06:12.049 --> 0:06:14.210 out of a movie. The first act of a film 0:06:14.250 --> 0:06:18.169 noir Billy was an Englishman driving through Chattanooga on a 0:06:18.210 --> 0:06:21.210 tourist visa when he got into a terrible car accident, 0:06:21.849 --> 0:06:25.930 and the physical therapist assigned to him was Elisa's mom. 0:06:26.529 --> 0:06:28.890 Billy was still in a wheelchair when he talked her 0:06:28.890 --> 0:06:31.570 into sneaking him out of the hospital for their first date. 0:06:32.409 --> 0:06:37.210 Pretty soon after they got married and had Elise, Billy 0:06:37.250 --> 0:06:40.770 never went back to England. Instead, he stayed with his 0:06:40.810 --> 0:06:44.770 family in Chattanooga and became a successful used car salesman. 0:06:45.650 --> 0:06:47.729 I have a lot of things in my upbringing in 0:06:47.770 --> 0:06:50.170 life with him to be very grateful for. In addition 0:06:50.289 --> 0:06:52.729 to all the craziness. 0:06:52.489 --> 0:06:56.490 In reference to her dad, Elise brings up craziness a lot, 0:06:56.929 --> 0:06:59.649 like the crazy way Billy ruined her credit by opening 0:06:59.690 --> 0:07:02.450 a business in her name, or the crazy time he 0:07:02.570 --> 0:07:05.969 drove home a brand new car only to have cops 0:07:06.010 --> 0:07:08.809 come looking for it with their guns drawn, or the 0:07:08.810 --> 0:07:11.449 crazy way he destroyed his twenty four year marriage with 0:07:11.530 --> 0:07:15.170 a series of affairs. There's one Christmas where he bailed 0:07:15.210 --> 0:07:18.410 on the family only to spend the holiday with another woman. 0:07:19.450 --> 0:07:21.810 And for all of these things, no matter how jarring 0:07:21.970 --> 0:07:25.170 or painful, Elise is found it in herself to forgive 0:07:25.170 --> 0:07:28.570 her father, but there's one thing she hasn't been able 0:07:28.610 --> 0:07:29.090 to forgive. 0:07:30.090 --> 0:07:34.129 About five years ago, he moved out of the country 0:07:34.730 --> 0:07:37.809 without telling us. 0:07:38.770 --> 0:07:42.090 Us is Elise and her mom. Elise's parents had been 0:07:42.130 --> 0:07:45.650 married her whole life, but had recently separated around the 0:07:45.650 --> 0:07:49.130 time of his disappearance. Her last good memory of her 0:07:49.210 --> 0:07:51.890 dad is watching him wave from the crowd as she 0:07:51.970 --> 0:07:57.010 crossed the stage at our college graduation. Days later, he disappeared, 0:07:58.090 --> 0:08:01.210 and disappeared is the word for it. Elise says that 0:08:01.250 --> 0:08:03.730 when she went over to his house, she found food 0:08:03.770 --> 0:08:06.930 rotting in the refrigerator and all the furniture still there. 0:08:13.090 --> 0:08:15.730 For a week, Aleist had no idea what had happened 0:08:15.770 --> 0:08:19.929 to her father, and then she received an email. It 0:08:19.970 --> 0:08:22.290 simply said he'd be gone for a little while and 0:08:22.330 --> 0:08:24.410 that email was the best way to stay in touch. 0:08:25.050 --> 0:08:29.210 There was no further explanation. The next time she heard 0:08:29.250 --> 0:08:32.449 from him was on her birthday six months later, a 0:08:32.530 --> 0:08:35.650 Christmas note. And that's more or less been the pattern 0:08:35.770 --> 0:08:37.090 for the last five years. 0:08:38.250 --> 0:08:43.250 On holidays and my birthday and stuff like that. His 0:08:43.330 --> 0:08:46.929 emails are very short, like three sentences or less, sort 0:08:46.930 --> 0:08:49.810 of happy whatever holiday it is I hope you're well, 0:08:50.890 --> 0:08:51.370 love Dad. 0:08:52.770 --> 0:08:56.210 At first, at least tried responding. She'd express some of 0:08:56.210 --> 0:08:58.809 her pain and anger in hopes of provoking a more 0:08:58.810 --> 0:09:03.610 substantial dialogue, but Billy would refuse to engage. So after 0:09:03.650 --> 0:09:06.490 an email pressing her father for answers, a few months 0:09:06.530 --> 0:09:10.130 would pass with no response, and then an email would 0:09:10.210 --> 0:09:13.850 land and Elisa's inbox wishing her a happy whatever holiday 0:09:13.850 --> 0:09:17.370 it is and hoping she's well. Love Dad, as though 0:09:17.410 --> 0:09:22.210 nothing was ever expressed and nothing was ever asked of him. Eventually, 0:09:22.690 --> 0:09:25.210 Alice stopped responding to his emails entirely. 0:09:26.570 --> 0:09:28.610 We don't have a mailing address for him. I don't 0:09:28.610 --> 0:09:31.010 know if his phone number. Like the only connection I 0:09:31.010 --> 0:09:33.130 have to him is a Comcast email address. 0:09:33.450 --> 0:09:35.130 Do you do you know where he's living. 0:09:35.410 --> 0:09:38.130 He's in the Philippines, and that's all I know. My 0:09:38.210 --> 0:09:41.130 mom has a pinpoint into like a region. But like 0:09:41.170 --> 0:09:42.650 there was ever, like he never told me where he 0:09:42.730 --> 0:09:46.090 was going or why he never he never explained why 0:09:46.130 --> 0:09:46.530 he left. 0:09:47.930 --> 0:09:51.370 And this is what Elise wants, an explanation for his departure, 0:09:51.850 --> 0:09:55.730 an emotional, honest conversation where she can ask him why 0:09:56.170 --> 0:09:58.970 and what happened, Because in the five years since she 0:09:59.050 --> 0:10:01.290 last saw him, a lot has happened. 0:10:02.010 --> 0:10:03.850 He started a new family, he also has like a 0:10:03.890 --> 0:10:07.010 wife and a kid. Uh huh, And then he actually 0:10:07.130 --> 0:10:11.530 named his new daughter my name Elise. 0:10:12.250 --> 0:10:17.650 Oh my god, I. 0:10:17.650 --> 0:10:22.689 Just find it so insulting. It's just such a transparent replacement, 0:10:23.450 --> 0:10:25.530 like I moved to a country and like made a 0:10:25.570 --> 0:10:26.210 new youth. 0:10:27.250 --> 0:10:30.290 So when people search for Elise on Facebook, the first 0:10:30.330 --> 0:10:33.010 result that comes up is new Elise and the page 0:10:33.050 --> 0:10:36.450 Billy made for her, which means old Elise is forced 0:10:36.450 --> 0:10:39.370 to constantly explain that this is her dad's new daughter 0:10:39.690 --> 0:10:42.890 from his new family, who also just so happens to. 0:10:42.770 --> 0:10:57.730 Have her name, Like, he just wants me to like 0:10:57.850 --> 0:11:00.929 love him and be happy with him again. But the 0:11:01.010 --> 0:11:04.610 elephant in the room is that he's living mysteriously somewhere 0:11:04.730 --> 0:11:08.170 for half a decade and we've never discussed it. 0:11:08.170 --> 0:11:10.250 At least feels like she and Billy are living in 0:11:10.290 --> 0:11:13.730 two different realities. She in the one where her father 0:11:13.810 --> 0:11:16.530 abandoned her, and he in the one where he did 0:11:16.570 --> 0:11:20.010 nothing wrong. She wants her dad to validate what she's 0:11:20.010 --> 0:11:24.770 seen and felt to understand. Otherwise, how can they move forward? 0:11:25.890 --> 0:11:29.210 Are you wanting to have a relationship with him. 0:11:29.090 --> 0:11:32.490 Pardon me, is because he's also he's like diabetic, and 0:11:32.650 --> 0:11:34.450 like he's just kind of old and sick and might 0:11:34.570 --> 0:11:38.770 die and I might never know. He's sixty five and 0:11:38.930 --> 0:11:43.290 possibly working a very physically taxing job. She was working 0:11:43.290 --> 0:11:46.610 on containerships when we first moved over, And I've been 0:11:46.730 --> 0:11:49.890 passively choosing the root of not having a relationship. But 0:11:50.970 --> 0:11:55.530 the fear and the guilt gets worse with time, and. 0:11:55.570 --> 0:11:57.810 What would what would pursuing a relationship look like? 0:12:00.570 --> 0:12:03.250 That's what I'm That's what I'm trying to figure out. 0:12:03.650 --> 0:12:10.850 It's like, yeah, I mean, he's my dad and I 0:12:10.890 --> 0:12:13.410 feel like he's trying to maintain a relationship with me, 0:12:13.490 --> 0:12:17.850 and I just don't know how to work past it. 0:12:19.370 --> 0:12:21.970 I know I can sometimes come across as something of 0:12:22.010 --> 0:12:25.370 a meddler, but I only decide to get involved in 0:12:25.410 --> 0:12:29.970 the business of upturning people's entire lives after hours, sometimes 0:12:30.010 --> 0:12:34.970 even days, of careful consideration. But then, I've never hosted 0:12:34.970 --> 0:12:39.050 a call in show before, and so adrenalized by the 0:12:39.090 --> 0:12:42.970 single flashing light on my switchboard and the imperial perch 0:12:43.090 --> 0:12:47.690 of my slightly elevated swivel chair, I dive in would 0:12:47.730 --> 0:12:50.809 you want me to call him up? And I say this, 0:12:51.050 --> 0:12:54.490 by the way, like with the idea that this could 0:12:54.490 --> 0:12:58.929 be a terrible, terrible idea, I'm not championing this idea. 0:12:58.970 --> 0:13:00.170 This could be a stupid idea. 0:13:01.090 --> 0:13:02.850 It's better than any of the ideas that I've had 0:13:02.890 --> 0:13:07.530 for the past five years. So yeah, I think I 0:13:07.530 --> 0:13:08.530 think it would be helpful. 0:13:10.250 --> 0:13:13.810 My idea is to serve as Elise's emotional advance scout, 0:13:14.410 --> 0:13:16.290 to call up her dad and see if he might 0:13:16.330 --> 0:13:19.530 be ready after all this time, to talk to Elise 0:13:19.810 --> 0:13:23.330 and offer some answers. Given what Elise has told me 0:13:23.370 --> 0:13:26.210 about her dad, I can't say I'm optimistic about that. 0:13:27.010 --> 0:13:30.290 But then again, I can't say I'm optimistic about anything. 0:13:30.850 --> 0:13:32.490 Good luck for the rest of your calls. 0:13:33.090 --> 0:13:37.050 No one's gonna call anyway. So no, this was a 0:13:37.050 --> 0:13:45.050 good call in show. And so it comes to pass 0:13:45.330 --> 0:13:50.610 that I email Billy. As I await his response, I 0:13:50.610 --> 0:13:54.810 imagine various scenarios. Maybe Billy will treat me like a 0:13:54.850 --> 0:13:59.090 student loan officer. Sorry, sir, you've got the wrong Billy, 0:13:59.570 --> 0:14:03.050 he might say. Or perhaps he'll try to convince me 0:14:03.210 --> 0:14:05.890 I have the story all wrong, that Elise and her 0:14:05.890 --> 0:14:12.530 mom are the real Villains. After a week and a half, 0:14:12.650 --> 0:14:16.090 I finally hear back from Billy, and his actual response 0:14:16.370 --> 0:14:19.770 is more surprising than any I might have imagined. It's 0:14:19.890 --> 0:14:24.690 just a simple note apologizing for the delay. Billy explains 0:14:24.810 --> 0:14:27.450 it's the rainy season and the Philippines and it's been 0:14:27.490 --> 0:14:31.450 messing with his Internet. But he says he really wants 0:14:31.490 --> 0:14:35.210 to talk to me. To be honest with you, He writes, 0:14:35.970 --> 0:14:47.810 you are the only hope I have of communicating with Elise. Hello, 0:14:48.570 --> 0:14:50.930 oh hi, this is Jonathan Goldstein speaking. 0:14:52.530 --> 0:14:53.410 Hey Jonathan. 0:14:54.450 --> 0:14:58.090 It's a terrible evening here again, thunder and lightning. As 0:14:58.090 --> 0:14:59.610 I told you, rainy seasons. 0:14:59.730 --> 0:15:03.650 So but anyway, so Elise contacted you. 0:15:07.810 --> 0:15:10.490 Although Elise's last mine memory of her dad was at 0:15:10.490 --> 0:15:14.730 her graduation ceremony, Billy has a different final memory, and 0:15:14.810 --> 0:15:16.810 as he describes it, it was one of the most 0:15:16.890 --> 0:15:20.090 painful moments of his life. He was in the midst 0:15:20.090 --> 0:15:21.930 of the separation from Elisa's mom. 0:15:23.770 --> 0:15:28.850 I was walking out of the garage carrying a box 0:15:29.410 --> 0:15:32.690 and you can see straight into the house from the driveway. 0:15:32.890 --> 0:15:36.010 And Elise was in the dining room. 0:15:36.970 --> 0:15:37.170 Well. 0:15:37.250 --> 0:15:39.770 When she saw me, she. 0:15:39.970 --> 0:15:44.090 Darted back into the living room, and kind of hid 0:15:44.130 --> 0:15:49.210 herself so I couldn't see her. But I know for 0:15:49.330 --> 0:15:54.690 a fact that she saw me because we made eye contact. 0:15:56.770 --> 0:15:58.970 I get that this had to have been painful for Billy, 0:15:59.450 --> 0:16:02.890 but as Elisa's interlocutor, I tell him this isn't about 0:16:02.890 --> 0:16:06.370 his pain. It's about his daughter's pain in her anger, 0:16:06.930 --> 0:16:09.490 and if they're to speak, he should be prepared for that. 0:16:10.570 --> 0:16:13.490 I can't imagine that something Billy wants to hear, and 0:16:13.530 --> 0:16:15.450 I'm worried how he'll react. 0:16:16.610 --> 0:16:22.210 As far as her feeling anger on her mother's behalf, 0:16:24.210 --> 0:16:31.650 that I can assure you is completely understandable. 0:16:33.890 --> 0:16:36.810 Once again, Billy has managed to surprise me. 0:16:38.770 --> 0:16:43.530 I basically putn't it bluntly shit all over that woman 0:16:44.090 --> 0:16:49.250 on many occasions. He was one particular Sunday morning that 0:16:49.450 --> 0:16:53.170 she was up cooking breakfast and the phone rings and 0:16:53.250 --> 0:16:56.930 there's a woman on the phone. And the woman says, Hey, 0:16:57.970 --> 0:17:02.330 this is Angela. Can I speak to Billy? And my 0:17:02.410 --> 0:17:03.330 wife said, well. 0:17:03.210 --> 0:17:03.810 Who are you? 0:17:03.850 --> 0:17:07.929 And she just openly older she said, well, I'm his girlfriend. 0:17:09.090 --> 0:17:12.050 Can you imagine a wife getting a owe concos of 0:17:12.210 --> 0:17:15.050 s like that on a Sunday morning in the middle 0:17:15.090 --> 0:17:18.209 of breakfast, saying I'm your husband's girlfriend. 0:17:22.010 --> 0:17:25.490 If at least broke is that with you, I can 0:17:25.530 --> 0:17:30.609 assure you that every single word that she says is accurate, 0:17:31.530 --> 0:17:35.409 and if it's not a really ugly picture, she's left 0:17:35.490 --> 0:17:37.210 something like because trust me. 0:17:37.369 --> 0:17:40.050 It's a really ugly picture. 0:17:41.409 --> 0:17:47.530 But there's absolutely nothing that I won't be completely honest 0:17:47.770 --> 0:17:52.289 and open about. The honest that I have absolutely no 0:17:52.530 --> 0:17:56.330 problem discussing anything with you. 0:17:58.449 --> 0:18:01.930 After hearing everything ALIST had to say about Billy's unwillingness 0:18:01.929 --> 0:18:05.609 to own up his refusal to engage, I was expecting 0:18:05.609 --> 0:18:10.770 the worst, but Billy seems genuinely remorseful, apologetic, and even 0:18:10.810 --> 0:18:13.850 eager to hear his daughter out. He tells me he 0:18:13.929 --> 0:18:16.369 kept his distance out of fear that at least didn't 0:18:16.369 --> 0:18:18.889 want to hear from him at all, but he thinks 0:18:18.929 --> 0:18:20.169 about her all the time. 0:18:21.889 --> 0:18:25.409 I don't know if it's because I'm getting over either. 0:18:25.570 --> 0:18:27.050 I don't know if it's this. 0:18:28.129 --> 0:18:32.809 I feel like I've lost my daughter. I don't know 0:18:32.850 --> 0:18:35.010 what it is, but I. 0:18:35.050 --> 0:18:36.010 Was really. 0:18:37.369 --> 0:18:42.209 Excited when I found out that she had reached help 0:18:42.369 --> 0:18:48.609 to you to make contact with me, because to me, 0:18:49.169 --> 0:18:55.609 that means she wants to get our relationship back, and 0:18:56.250 --> 0:18:57.530 that is desperately. 0:18:57.770 --> 0:18:58.770 What I want? 0:19:22.490 --> 0:19:22.890 Elise? 0:19:23.810 --> 0:19:24.010 Hi? 0:19:24.290 --> 0:19:27.690 How are you nice to meet you? 0:19:28.129 --> 0:19:30.810 I've invited Elise to my office in Brooklyn so that 0:19:30.889 --> 0:19:33.489 we can call her father together. It will be the 0:19:33.530 --> 0:19:37.129 first time in five years that Alise hears Billy's voice. 0:19:37.730 --> 0:19:41.369 How are you feeling very nervous? You are? Do you 0:19:41.369 --> 0:19:44.729 want some coffee? Nothing calms the Kishkas better than a 0:19:44.810 --> 0:19:48.569 nice cup of coffee. Alise declines, and we settle in 0:19:48.609 --> 0:19:50.770 for some small talk while I set up the call. 0:19:51.649 --> 0:19:55.169 As we chat, I'm struck by Elise's cultural sensitivity. 0:19:56.169 --> 0:19:59.690 Wasn't it Canada Day? Recently? It was Canada Day? 0:19:59.929 --> 0:20:05.290 Thank you? And I fumble around, incapable of an appropriately 0:20:05.409 --> 0:20:10.210 reciprocal well wish. Hmmm. We're three days after Canada Day, 0:20:10.330 --> 0:20:14.969 so that makes it the third, maybe the fourth of July. Naw, 0:20:15.050 --> 0:20:18.890 I got nothing. I tell the Lease about my conversation 0:20:19.050 --> 0:20:22.450 with Billy. How remorseful and open to talking he seemed. 0:20:23.129 --> 0:20:26.010 She's still worried, but says she wasn't even expecting things 0:20:26.010 --> 0:20:27.050 to progress this far. 0:20:27.770 --> 0:20:30.409 I'm very surprised he spoke to you. I'm very surprised 0:20:30.449 --> 0:20:31.249 he was candid with you. 0:20:32.850 --> 0:20:37.609 So that's a positive, right, and that's a change. Yeah, 0:20:38.530 --> 0:20:41.689 so do you wanna shall we try this? 0:20:42.490 --> 0:20:42.690 Sure? 0:20:42.929 --> 0:20:48.810 Make the call? Yeah, so it's Monday, six in the evening, 0:20:48.850 --> 0:20:52.210 so it is six a m. In the Philippines. It's 0:20:52.250 --> 0:20:56.690 really yeah, Well let's try him. 0:20:56.889 --> 0:21:00.449 Okay, what. 0:21:06.050 --> 0:21:06.210 Right? 0:21:07.209 --> 0:21:08.169 Hello is this Bill? 0:21:09.290 --> 0:21:09.490 Yes? 0:21:10.250 --> 0:21:12.490 Hi Bill, this is Jonathan Goldstein speaking. 0:21:13.409 --> 0:21:14.770 Hi buddy. What's going on? 0:21:17.209 --> 0:21:18.970 Well, I'm here with Elise. 0:21:20.490 --> 0:21:20.969 He did. 0:21:23.850 --> 0:21:25.729 Hi. Hi, honey. How are you? 0:21:27.169 --> 0:21:32.170 I'm I'm good. How are you? Everything is good this end, 0:21:32.850 --> 0:21:33.409 that's good. 0:21:34.449 --> 0:21:42.209 I'm glad that you were approached Johnson. Any communication that 0:21:42.330 --> 0:21:45.330 we can get I think is really good. 0:21:47.810 --> 0:21:52.010 Yeah, I'm sorry it took such a long time. 0:21:52.490 --> 0:21:58.010 I just stay what I understand you what gools to work? 0:21:58.169 --> 0:22:02.650 German problems And yes things went wrong towards the end, 0:22:02.689 --> 0:22:05.730 and yes they're one fault. 0:22:06.090 --> 0:22:06.529 And if you. 0:22:06.570 --> 0:22:09.330 Think back, we shared a lot of great. 0:22:11.570 --> 0:22:14.009 But Elise isn't here to talk about the great times. 0:22:14.570 --> 0:22:17.449 She's here to talk about the bad times. In fact, 0:22:17.850 --> 0:22:20.050 she's written up some notes to make sure she doesn't 0:22:20.129 --> 0:22:23.850 leave any of her feelings or questions unsaid. The notes 0:22:23.889 --> 0:22:27.369 are in her hand, but she isn't looking at them. Instead, 0:22:27.929 --> 0:22:28.929 she speaks from the heart. 0:22:31.209 --> 0:22:39.889 Okay, I have thought about emailing you back. 0:22:41.449 --> 0:22:46.009 I've just been so angry that I didn't think it 0:22:46.050 --> 0:22:50.810 would be productive, And like. 0:22:52.290 --> 0:22:55.410 I have just wanted to, like yell at you. 0:22:57.010 --> 0:23:01.049 Or cry or cuss you out for leaving and not 0:23:01.250 --> 0:23:07.330 explaining anything. But I don't feel that like intense anger anymore. 0:23:09.090 --> 0:23:12.529 I'm sad that we don't have a relationship like we 0:23:12.649 --> 0:23:18.010 used to, but I feel like every time I let 0:23:18.010 --> 0:23:20.609 you back in and I forgive you for whatever has 0:23:20.649 --> 0:23:23.689 happened before, you end up just breaking my heart again. 0:23:24.530 --> 0:23:24.810 And I. 0:23:26.369 --> 0:23:30.570 Do find it very insulting that you gave another child 0:23:30.609 --> 0:23:32.450 my name, my verse and last name. 0:23:35.810 --> 0:23:36.609 And I don't know. 0:23:36.730 --> 0:23:39.570 I don't know what relationship we're going to have in 0:23:39.609 --> 0:23:43.090 the future. I just I had to sort of get 0:23:43.889 --> 0:23:46.770 some of this out for any of that to be possible. 0:23:54.570 --> 0:23:58.330 Billy is silent for a while. When he finally does respond, 0:23:58.889 --> 0:24:01.570 he skips right over the big question about his leaving 0:24:01.570 --> 0:24:05.649 with that explanation and focuses on the second question instead, 0:24:06.409 --> 0:24:08.090 the question of Elisa's name. 0:24:09.409 --> 0:24:18.129 Well, I can tell you that it was her mother 0:24:18.889 --> 0:24:21.570 who loves the name a leash. 0:24:22.730 --> 0:24:26.529 I should have contested and said, no, you know, leasure, 0:24:26.570 --> 0:24:28.729 we think this swam but I didn't, at least to 0:24:28.770 --> 0:24:32.169 be honest with you, and I should have done. 0:24:32.369 --> 0:24:39.210 The Filipino culture and the Filipino thinking is different. I'll 0:24:39.209 --> 0:24:47.410 give you another example. One of your favorite dogs is Charlie. Okay, 0:24:48.929 --> 0:24:52.850 I've never owned a German Shepherd over here, but we 0:24:53.050 --> 0:24:56.850 had a dog. But because of the stories that I've told, 0:24:57.129 --> 0:24:58.290 what did they call the dog? 0:24:59.209 --> 0:24:59.569 Charlie? 0:25:01.770 --> 0:25:04.010 By the look on her face, at least doesn't seem 0:25:04.090 --> 0:25:07.770 reassured by the fact that, like her Charlie, the beloved 0:25:07.770 --> 0:25:12.729 German shepherd from her chinlihood, had also been replaced. Although 0:25:12.770 --> 0:25:15.530 I haven't been to the Philippines, it feels as though 0:25:15.570 --> 0:25:18.409 Billy is throwing an entire country under the bus to 0:25:18.490 --> 0:25:22.330 save his own hide. In the silence, I try to 0:25:22.330 --> 0:25:24.929 bring things back to what I think is Billy's strongest suit, 0:25:25.570 --> 0:25:29.770 his seemingly renewed capacity for repentance. I want the least 0:25:29.770 --> 0:25:32.769 to hear what I heard in Billy during our first conversation, 0:25:33.770 --> 0:25:35.970 so I try to steer things in that direction. 0:25:38.850 --> 0:25:39.129 Bill. 0:25:42.250 --> 0:25:47.850 You know you you you mentioned feeling regret. What would 0:25:47.889 --> 0:25:50.730