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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hi, Jonathan, Hi, come on in. You should make

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Speaker 1: yourself at home in the studio because it is like

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Speaker 1: a sec you've been spending so much time in here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I actually sometimes just sleep in here. It's just

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Speaker 2: easier than having to go home.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you should be telling me that

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Speaker 1: this might be a conversation out with hr Yeah, what

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Speaker 1: are we listening to today?

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Speaker 2: Speaking of the studio, Today we're going to revisit an

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Speaker 2: episode that started with us sitting around in the studio.

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Speaker 2: It's called a Lease.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, of course I love this episode.

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Speaker 2: It's a really good one that came to us, as

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Speaker 2: you'll hear, in an unconventional way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we were trying something new. We were trying to

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Speaker 1: do a call in show, but in our case that

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Speaker 1: basically failed, but it succeeded because we wouldn't have had

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Speaker 1: this story without it.

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Speaker 2: And we have a check in with Alease at the

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Speaker 2: end about what's happened since. And truly some of the

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Speaker 2: wildest updates I would say of any of these update conversations.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, do you have a tendency to to

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Speaker 1: to skew towards clickbait, But in this case it's true

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Speaker 1: it's very eventful.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: What else is there to say to quote?

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Speaker 1: To quote?

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Speaker 3: Jay Z?

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Speaker 1: What more can I say?

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Speaker 3: Hello?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I thought you left the studio. Yeah, let's lean.

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Speaker 2: Back, let the story unfold and let.

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Speaker 1: This story take us away. Oh but before any of that,

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Speaker 1: a word from our sponsors. Hey, how is it that

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Speaker 1: a seal keeps balls on their nose?

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Speaker 4: Go?

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Speaker 1: Now, no, no, I have something serious.

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Speaker 4: If I happen to groceres in the house and I've

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Speaker 4: got to paint the doors.

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Speaker 1: So you're painting the door to your house? Yes, it

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Speaker 1: pays the door red.

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Speaker 4: It's gonna be very nice.

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Speaker 1: But you know what a red door symbolizes, right, No,

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Speaker 1: le rouge, there is a bordello. You're kidding, right, That's

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Speaker 1: how sailors would know. They would have them down by

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Speaker 1: the viewport and they would be able to know where

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Speaker 1: they could kidding make whoopee for for money?

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Speaker 5: Sorry, who's that?

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Speaker 6: That's my neighbor.

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Speaker 1: Could you ask him about the red door?

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Speaker 5: Zach?

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Speaker 2: I need this.

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Speaker 1: From Gimblet Media. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is Heavyweight

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Speaker 1: Today's episode, ilise.

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Speaker 5: So now what happens They're just gonna call We'll see.

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Speaker 1: Oh boy, get ready. For a while back, my producers

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Speaker 1: and I decided to try a phone in episode. Larry King,

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Speaker 1: Rush Limbaugh and other Goldstein esque personalities had found success

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Speaker 1: with them. So why, I wondered, from the depths of

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Speaker 1: my ignorance, couldn't die and so full of hubris and hope,

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Speaker 1: we open the phone lines and invite the whole world

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Speaker 1: to call in with a small moment from their past,

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Speaker 1: something to revisit and resolve, all during the course of

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Speaker 1: a five minute phone call. This is why I got

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Speaker 1: into this business, the know the feeling of live radio.

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Speaker 1: As I'm to learn the thing about a phone in

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Speaker 1: show is that you need people to phone in and

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Speaker 1: nobody is.

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Speaker 2: Cause everyone's day.

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Speaker 1: But just as I'm starting to wonder if Gimblet Media

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Speaker 1: has forgotten to pay its telephone bill again, Oh here

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Speaker 1: we go.

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Speaker 2: We're answering.

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Speaker 5: All right.

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Speaker 1: Hello, this is Jonathan speaking.

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Speaker 4: Hi Jonathan, how's it going?

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Speaker 1: It's going okay? Is this uh? What's your name?

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Speaker 6: Elise?

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Speaker 4: This is You're very surprised I got through. This is

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Speaker 4: so exciting.

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Speaker 1: I guess you really lucked out. Elise is a longtime listener,

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Speaker 1: first time caller from Washington, d C. And As it

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Speaker 1: turns out, her call proves not only the first of

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Speaker 1: the day, but also the last. And this is not

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Speaker 1: just because we don't receive any other calls. It's because

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Speaker 1: I completely drawn in by the story at least tells

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Speaker 1: me about herself and her dad. What's his name, Billy? Billy?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so I guess I basically I am estranged from

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Speaker 4: my father.

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Speaker 1: When Aalise was a kid, Billy was the fun parent,

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Speaker 1: the one who always had hours to play with her,

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Speaker 1: the guy who, in spite of being something of a

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Speaker 1: macho man, gave himself over to playing beauty salon, even

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Speaker 1: allowing Elise to paint his toenails. Before the estrangement, Billy

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Speaker 1: and Elise were really close, which is why not having

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Speaker 1: any relationship now hurts the way it does.

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Speaker 4: She was my dad, Like our idea of a family

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Speaker 4: vacation was to like show up in a country with

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Speaker 4: no plan and like rent a car and just like

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Speaker 4: drive around. And it was amazing, Like that's what that's what.

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Speaker 7: Life with dad would like. It was like every day

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Speaker 7: was an adventure.

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Speaker 1: Even the way Billy met Alisa's mom was like something

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Speaker 1: out of a movie. The first act of a film

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Speaker 1: noir Billy was an Englishman driving through Chattanooga on a

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Speaker 1: tourist visa when he got into a terrible car accident,

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Speaker 1: and the physical therapist assigned to him was Elisa's mom.

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Speaker 1: Billy was still in a wheelchair when he talked her

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Speaker 1: into sneaking him out of the hospital for their first date.

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Speaker 1: Pretty soon after they got married and had Elise, Billy

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Speaker 1: never went back to England. Instead, he stayed with his

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Speaker 1: family in Chattanooga and became a successful used car salesman.

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Speaker 4: I have a lot of things in my upbringing in

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Speaker 4: life with him to be very grateful for. In addition

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Speaker 4: to all the craziness.

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Speaker 1: In reference to her dad, Elise brings up craziness a lot,

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Speaker 1: like the crazy way Billy ruined her credit by opening

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Speaker 1: a business in her name, or the crazy time he

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Speaker 1: drove home a brand new car only to have cops

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Speaker 1: come looking for it with their guns drawn, or the

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Speaker 1: crazy way he destroyed his twenty four year marriage with

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Speaker 1: a series of affairs. There's one Christmas where he bailed

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Speaker 1: on the family only to spend the holiday with another woman.

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Speaker 1: And for all of these things, no matter how jarring

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Speaker 1: or painful, Elise is found it in herself to forgive

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Speaker 1: her father, but there's one thing she hasn't been able

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Speaker 1: to forgive.

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Speaker 4: About five years ago, he moved out of the country

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Speaker 4: without telling us.

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Speaker 1: Us is Elise and her mom. Elise's parents had been

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Speaker 1: married her whole life, but had recently separated around the

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Speaker 1: time of his disappearance. Her last good memory of her

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Speaker 1: dad is watching him wave from the crowd as she

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Speaker 1: crossed the stage at our college graduation. Days later, he disappeared,

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Speaker 1: and disappeared is the word for it. Elise says that

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Speaker 1: when she went over to his house, she found food

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Speaker 1: rotting in the refrigerator and all the furniture still there.

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Speaker 1: For a week, Aleist had no idea what had happened

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Speaker 1: to her father, and then she received an email. It

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Speaker 1: simply said he'd be gone for a little while and

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Speaker 1: that email was the best way to stay in touch.

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Speaker 1: There was no further explanation. The next time she heard

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Speaker 1: from him was on her birthday six months later, a

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Speaker 1: Christmas note. And that's more or less been the pattern

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Speaker 1: for the last five years.

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Speaker 4: On holidays and my birthday and stuff like that. His

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Speaker 4: emails are very short, like three sentences or less, sort

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Speaker 4: of happy whatever holiday it is I hope you're well,

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Speaker 4: love Dad.

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Speaker 1: At first, at least tried responding. She'd express some of

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Speaker 1: her pain and anger in hopes of provoking a more

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Speaker 1: substantial dialogue, but Billy would refuse to engage. So after

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Speaker 1: an email pressing her father for answers, a few months

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Speaker 1: would pass with no response, and then an email would

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Speaker 1: land and Elisa's inbox wishing her a happy whatever holiday

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Speaker 1: it is and hoping she's well. Love Dad, as though

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Speaker 1: nothing was ever expressed and nothing was ever asked of him. Eventually,

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Speaker 1: Alice stopped responding to his emails entirely.

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Speaker 4: We don't have a mailing address for him. I don't

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Speaker 4: know if his phone number. Like the only connection I

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Speaker 4: have to him is a Comcast email address.

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Speaker 1: Do you do you know where he's living.

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Speaker 4: He's in the Philippines, and that's all I know. My

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Speaker 4: mom has a pinpoint into like a region. But like

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Speaker 4: there was ever, like he never told me where he

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Speaker 4: was going or why he never he never explained why

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Speaker 4: he left.

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Speaker 1: And this is what Elise wants, an explanation for his departure,

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Speaker 1: an emotional, honest conversation where she can ask him why

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Speaker 1: and what happened, Because in the five years since she

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Speaker 1: last saw him, a lot has happened.

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Speaker 4: He started a new family, he also has like a

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Speaker 4: wife and a kid. Uh huh, And then he actually

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Speaker 4: named his new daughter my name Elise.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I.

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Speaker 4: Just find it so insulting. It's just such a transparent replacement,

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Speaker 4: like I moved to a country and like made a

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Speaker 4: new youth.

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Speaker 1: So when people search for Elise on Facebook, the first

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Speaker 1: result that comes up is new Elise and the page

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Speaker 1: Billy made for her, which means old Elise is forced

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Speaker 1: to constantly explain that this is her dad's new daughter

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Speaker 1: from his new family, who also just so happens to.

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Speaker 4: Have her name, Like, he just wants me to like

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Speaker 4: love him and be happy with him again. But the

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Speaker 4: elephant in the room is that he's living mysteriously somewhere

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Speaker 4: for half a decade and we've never discussed it.

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Speaker 1: At least feels like she and Billy are living in

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Speaker 1: two different realities. She in the one where her father

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Speaker 1: abandoned her, and he in the one where he did

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Speaker 1: nothing wrong. She wants her dad to validate what she's

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Speaker 1: seen and felt to understand. Otherwise, how can they move forward?

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Speaker 1: Are you wanting to have a relationship with him.

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Speaker 4: Pardon me, is because he's also he's like diabetic, and

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Speaker 4: like he's just kind of old and sick and might

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Speaker 4: die and I might never know. He's sixty five and

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Speaker 4: possibly working a very physically taxing job. She was working

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Speaker 4: on containerships when we first moved over, And I've been

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Speaker 4: passively choosing the root of not having a relationship. But

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Speaker 4: the fear and the guilt gets worse with time, and.

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Speaker 1: What would what would pursuing a relationship look like?

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Speaker 4: That's what I'm That's what I'm trying to figure out.

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Speaker 4: It's like, yeah, I mean, he's my dad and I

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Speaker 4: feel like he's trying to maintain a relationship with me,

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Speaker 4: and I just don't know how to work past it.

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Speaker 1: I know I can sometimes come across as something of

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Speaker 1: a meddler, but I only decide to get involved in

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Speaker 1: the business of upturning people's entire lives after hours, sometimes

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Speaker 1: even days, of careful consideration. But then, I've never hosted

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Speaker 1: a call in show before, and so adrenalized by the

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Speaker 1: single flashing light on my switchboard and the imperial perch

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Speaker 1: of my slightly elevated swivel chair, I dive in would

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Speaker 1: you want me to call him up? And I say this,

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Speaker 1: by the way, like with the idea that this could

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Speaker 1: be a terrible, terrible idea, I'm not championing this idea.

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Speaker 1: This could be a stupid idea.

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Speaker 4: It's better than any of the ideas that I've had

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Speaker 4: for the past five years. So yeah, I think I

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Speaker 4: think it would be helpful.

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Speaker 1: My idea is to serve as Elise's emotional advance scout,

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Speaker 1: to call up her dad and see if he might

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Speaker 1: be ready after all this time, to talk to Elise

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Speaker 1: and offer some answers. Given what Elise has told me

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Speaker 1: about her dad, I can't say I'm optimistic about that.

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Speaker 1: But then again, I can't say I'm optimistic about anything.

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Speaker 4: Good luck for the rest of your calls.

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Speaker 1: No one's gonna call anyway. So no, this was a

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Speaker 1: good call in show. And so it comes to pass

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Speaker 1: that I email Billy. As I await his response, I

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Speaker 1: imagine various scenarios. Maybe Billy will treat me like a

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Speaker 1: student loan officer. Sorry, sir, you've got the wrong Billy,

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Speaker 1: he might say. Or perhaps he'll try to convince me

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Speaker 1: I have the story all wrong, that Elise and her

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00:14:05,890 --> 00:14:12,530
Speaker 1: mom are the real Villains. After a week and a half,

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Speaker 1: I finally hear back from Billy, and his actual response

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00:14:16,370 --> 00:14:19,770
Speaker 1: is more surprising than any I might have imagined. It's

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Speaker 1: just a simple note apologizing for the delay. Billy explains

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Speaker 1: it's the rainy season and the Philippines and it's been

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Speaker 1: messing with his Internet. But he says he really wants

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Speaker 1: to talk to me. To be honest with you, He writes,

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Speaker 1: you are the only hope I have of communicating with Elise. Hello,

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00:14:48,570 --> 00:14:50,930
Speaker 1: oh hi, this is Jonathan Goldstein speaking.

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Speaker 8: Hey Jonathan.

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00:14:54,450 --> 00:14:58,090
Speaker 3: It's a terrible evening here again, thunder and lightning. As

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Speaker 3: I told you, rainy seasons.

246
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Speaker 8: So but anyway, so Elise contacted you.

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Speaker 1: Although Elise's last mine memory of her dad was at

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Speaker 1: her graduation ceremony, Billy has a different final memory, and

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Speaker 1: as he describes it, it was one of the most

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00:15:16,890 --> 00:15:20,090
Speaker 1: painful moments of his life. He was in the midst

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Speaker 1: of the separation from Elisa's mom.

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00:15:23,770 --> 00:15:28,850
Speaker 3: I was walking out of the garage carrying a box

253
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Speaker 3: and you can see straight into the house from the driveway.

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Speaker 6: And Elise was in the dining room.

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Speaker 8: Well.

256
00:15:37,250 --> 00:15:39,770
Speaker 6: When she saw me, she.

257
00:15:39,970 --> 00:15:44,090
Speaker 3: Darted back into the living room, and kind of hid

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00:15:44,130 --> 00:15:49,210
Speaker 3: herself so I couldn't see her. But I know for

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Speaker 3: a fact that she saw me because we made eye contact.

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Speaker 1: I get that this had to have been painful for Billy,

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00:15:59,450 --> 00:16:02,890
Speaker 1: but as Elisa's interlocutor, I tell him this isn't about

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Speaker 1: his pain. It's about his daughter's pain in her anger,

263
00:16:06,930 --> 00:16:09,490
Speaker 1: and if they're to speak, he should be prepared for that.

264
00:16:10,570 --> 00:16:13,490
Speaker 1: I can't imagine that something Billy wants to hear, and

265
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Speaker 1: I'm worried how he'll react.

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00:16:16,610 --> 00:16:22,210
Speaker 3: As far as her feeling anger on her mother's behalf,

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00:16:24,210 --> 00:16:31,650
Speaker 3: that I can assure you is completely understandable.

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00:16:33,890 --> 00:16:36,810
Speaker 1: Once again, Billy has managed to surprise me.

269
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Speaker 3: I basically putn't it bluntly shit all over that woman

270
00:16:44,090 --> 00:16:49,250
Speaker 3: on many occasions. He was one particular Sunday morning that

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00:16:49,450 --> 00:16:53,170
Speaker 3: she was up cooking breakfast and the phone rings and

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00:16:53,250 --> 00:16:56,930
Speaker 3: there's a woman on the phone. And the woman says, Hey,

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00:16:57,970 --> 00:17:02,330
Speaker 3: this is Angela. Can I speak to Billy? And my

274
00:17:02,410 --> 00:17:03,330
Speaker 3: wife said, well.

275
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Speaker 6: Who are you?

276
00:17:03,850 --> 00:17:07,929
Speaker 3: And she just openly older she said, well, I'm his girlfriend.

277
00:17:09,090 --> 00:17:12,050
Speaker 3: Can you imagine a wife getting a owe concos of

278
00:17:12,210 --> 00:17:15,050
Speaker 3: s like that on a Sunday morning in the middle

279
00:17:15,090 --> 00:17:18,209
Speaker 3: of breakfast, saying I'm your husband's girlfriend.

280
00:17:22,010 --> 00:17:25,490
Speaker 6: If at least broke is that with you, I can

281
00:17:25,530 --> 00:17:30,609
Speaker 6: assure you that every single word that she says is accurate,

282
00:17:31,530 --> 00:17:35,409
Speaker 6: and if it's not a really ugly picture, she's left

283
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Speaker 6: something like because trust me.

284
00:17:37,369 --> 00:17:40,050
Speaker 3: It's a really ugly picture.

285
00:17:41,409 --> 00:17:47,530
Speaker 8: But there's absolutely nothing that I won't be completely honest

286
00:17:47,770 --> 00:17:52,289
Speaker 8: and open about. The honest that I have absolutely no

287
00:17:52,530 --> 00:17:56,330
Speaker 8: problem discussing anything with you.

288
00:17:58,449 --> 00:18:01,930
Speaker 1: After hearing everything ALIST had to say about Billy's unwillingness

289
00:18:01,929 --> 00:18:05,609
Speaker 1: to own up his refusal to engage, I was expecting

290
00:18:05,609 --> 00:18:10,770
Speaker 1: the worst, but Billy seems genuinely remorseful, apologetic, and even

291
00:18:10,810 --> 00:18:13,850
Speaker 1: eager to hear his daughter out. He tells me he

292
00:18:13,929 --> 00:18:16,369
Speaker 1: kept his distance out of fear that at least didn't

293
00:18:16,369 --> 00:18:18,889
Speaker 1: want to hear from him at all, but he thinks

294
00:18:18,929 --> 00:18:20,169
Speaker 1: about her all the time.

295
00:18:21,889 --> 00:18:25,409
Speaker 8: I don't know if it's because I'm getting over either.

296
00:18:25,570 --> 00:18:27,050
Speaker 8: I don't know if it's this.

297
00:18:28,129 --> 00:18:32,809
Speaker 3: I feel like I've lost my daughter. I don't know

298
00:18:32,850 --> 00:18:35,010
Speaker 3: what it is, but I.

299
00:18:35,050 --> 00:18:36,010
Speaker 6: Was really.

300
00:18:37,369 --> 00:18:42,209
Speaker 3: Excited when I found out that she had reached help

301
00:18:42,369 --> 00:18:48,609
Speaker 3: to you to make contact with me, because to me,

302
00:18:49,169 --> 00:18:55,609
Speaker 3: that means she wants to get our relationship back, and

303
00:18:56,250 --> 00:18:57,530
Speaker 3: that is desperately.

304
00:18:57,770 --> 00:18:58,770
Speaker 8: What I want?

305
00:19:22,490 --> 00:19:22,890
Speaker 1: Elise?

306
00:19:23,810 --> 00:19:24,010
Speaker 9: Hi?

307
00:19:24,290 --> 00:19:27,690
Speaker 5: How are you nice to meet you?

308
00:19:28,129 --> 00:19:30,810
Speaker 1: I've invited Elise to my office in Brooklyn so that

309
00:19:30,889 --> 00:19:33,489
Speaker 1: we can call her father together. It will be the

310
00:19:33,530 --> 00:19:37,129
Speaker 1: first time in five years that Alise hears Billy's voice.

311
00:19:37,730 --> 00:19:41,369
Speaker 1: How are you feeling very nervous? You are? Do you

312
00:19:41,369 --> 00:19:44,729
Speaker 1: want some coffee? Nothing calms the Kishkas better than a

313
00:19:44,810 --> 00:19:48,569
Speaker 1: nice cup of coffee. Alise declines, and we settle in

314
00:19:48,609 --> 00:19:50,770
Speaker 1: for some small talk while I set up the call.

315
00:19:51,649 --> 00:19:55,169
Speaker 1: As we chat, I'm struck by Elise's cultural sensitivity.

316
00:19:56,169 --> 00:19:59,690
Speaker 7: Wasn't it Canada Day? Recently? It was Canada Day?

317
00:19:59,929 --> 00:20:05,290
Speaker 1: Thank you? And I fumble around, incapable of an appropriately

318
00:20:05,409 --> 00:20:10,210
Speaker 1: reciprocal well wish. Hmmm. We're three days after Canada Day,

319
00:20:10,330 --> 00:20:14,969
Speaker 1: so that makes it the third, maybe the fourth of July. Naw,

320
00:20:15,050 --> 00:20:18,890
Speaker 1: I got nothing. I tell the Lease about my conversation

321
00:20:19,050 --> 00:20:22,450
Speaker 1: with Billy. How remorseful and open to talking he seemed.

322
00:20:23,129 --> 00:20:26,010
Speaker 1: She's still worried, but says she wasn't even expecting things

323
00:20:26,010 --> 00:20:27,050
Speaker 1: to progress this far.

324
00:20:27,770 --> 00:20:30,409
Speaker 10: I'm very surprised he spoke to you. I'm very surprised

325
00:20:30,449 --> 00:20:31,249
Speaker 10: he was candid with you.

326
00:20:32,850 --> 00:20:37,609
Speaker 1: So that's a positive, right, and that's a change. Yeah,

327
00:20:38,530 --> 00:20:41,689
Speaker 1: so do you wanna shall we try this?

328
00:20:42,490 --> 00:20:42,690
Speaker 3: Sure?

329
00:20:42,929 --> 00:20:48,810
Speaker 1: Make the call? Yeah, so it's Monday, six in the evening,

330
00:20:48,850 --> 00:20:52,210
Speaker 1: so it is six a m. In the Philippines. It's

331
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Speaker 1: really yeah, Well let's try him.

332
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Speaker 9: Okay, what.

333
00:21:06,050 --> 00:21:06,210
Speaker 11: Right?

334
00:21:07,209 --> 00:21:08,169
Speaker 1: Hello is this Bill?

335
00:21:09,290 --> 00:21:09,490
Speaker 6: Yes?

336
00:21:10,250 --> 00:21:12,490
Speaker 1: Hi Bill, this is Jonathan Goldstein speaking.

337
00:21:13,409 --> 00:21:14,770
Speaker 8: Hi buddy. What's going on?

338
00:21:17,209 --> 00:21:18,970
Speaker 1: Well, I'm here with Elise.

339
00:21:20,490 --> 00:21:20,969
Speaker 9: He did.

340
00:21:23,850 --> 00:21:25,729
Speaker 8: Hi. Hi, honey. How are you?

341
00:21:27,169 --> 00:21:32,170
Speaker 7: I'm I'm good. How are you? Everything is good this end,

342
00:21:32,850 --> 00:21:33,409
Speaker 7: that's good.

343
00:21:34,449 --> 00:21:42,209
Speaker 8: I'm glad that you were approached Johnson. Any communication that

344
00:21:42,330 --> 00:21:45,330
Speaker 8: we can get I think is really good.

345
00:21:47,810 --> 00:21:52,010
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm sorry it took such a long time.

346
00:21:52,490 --> 00:21:58,010
Speaker 8: I just stay what I understand you what gools to work?

347
00:21:58,169 --> 00:22:02,650
Speaker 8: German problems And yes things went wrong towards the end,

348
00:22:02,689 --> 00:22:05,730
Speaker 8: and yes they're one fault.

349
00:22:06,090 --> 00:22:06,529
Speaker 3: And if you.

350
00:22:06,570 --> 00:22:09,330
Speaker 8: Think back, we shared a lot of great.

351
00:22:11,570 --> 00:22:14,009
Speaker 1: But Elise isn't here to talk about the great times.

352
00:22:14,570 --> 00:22:17,449
Speaker 1: She's here to talk about the bad times. In fact,

353
00:22:17,850 --> 00:22:20,050
Speaker 1: she's written up some notes to make sure she doesn't

354
00:22:20,129 --> 00:22:23,850
Speaker 1: leave any of her feelings or questions unsaid. The notes

355
00:22:23,889 --> 00:22:27,369
Speaker 1: are in her hand, but she isn't looking at them. Instead,

356
00:22:27,929 --> 00:22:28,929
Speaker 1: she speaks from the heart.

357
00:22:31,209 --> 00:22:39,889
Speaker 7: Okay, I have thought about emailing you back.

358
00:22:41,449 --> 00:22:46,009
Speaker 10: I've just been so angry that I didn't think it

359
00:22:46,050 --> 00:22:50,810
Speaker 10: would be productive, And like.

360
00:22:52,290 --> 00:22:55,410
Speaker 7: I have just wanted to, like yell at you.

361
00:22:57,010 --> 00:23:01,049
Speaker 10: Or cry or cuss you out for leaving and not

362
00:23:01,250 --> 00:23:07,330
Speaker 10: explaining anything. But I don't feel that like intense anger anymore.

363
00:23:09,090 --> 00:23:12,529
Speaker 10: I'm sad that we don't have a relationship like we

364
00:23:12,649 --> 00:23:18,010
Speaker 10: used to, but I feel like every time I let

365
00:23:18,010 --> 00:23:20,609
Speaker 10: you back in and I forgive you for whatever has

366
00:23:20,649 --> 00:23:23,689
Speaker 10: happened before, you end up just breaking my heart again.

367
00:23:24,530 --> 00:23:24,810
Speaker 7: And I.

368
00:23:26,369 --> 00:23:30,570
Speaker 10: Do find it very insulting that you gave another child

369
00:23:30,609 --> 00:23:32,450
Speaker 10: my name, my verse and last name.

370
00:23:35,810 --> 00:23:36,609
Speaker 7: And I don't know.

371
00:23:36,730 --> 00:23:39,570
Speaker 10: I don't know what relationship we're going to have in

372
00:23:39,609 --> 00:23:43,090
Speaker 10: the future. I just I had to sort of get

373
00:23:43,889 --> 00:23:46,770
Speaker 10: some of this out for any of that to be possible.

374
00:23:54,570 --> 00:23:58,330
Speaker 1: Billy is silent for a while. When he finally does respond,

375
00:23:58,889 --> 00:24:01,570
Speaker 1: he skips right over the big question about his leaving

376
00:24:01,570 --> 00:24:05,649
Speaker 1: with that explanation and focuses on the second question instead,

377
00:24:06,409 --> 00:24:08,090
Speaker 1: the question of Elisa's name.

378
00:24:09,409 --> 00:24:18,129
Speaker 8: Well, I can tell you that it was her mother

379
00:24:18,889 --> 00:24:21,570
Speaker 8: who loves the name a leash.

380
00:24:22,730 --> 00:24:26,529
Speaker 3: I should have contested and said, no, you know, leasure,

381
00:24:26,570 --> 00:24:28,729
Speaker 3: we think this swam but I didn't, at least to

382
00:24:28,770 --> 00:24:32,169
Speaker 3: be honest with you, and I should have done.

383
00:24:32,369 --> 00:24:39,210
Speaker 8: The Filipino culture and the Filipino thinking is different. I'll

384
00:24:39,209 --> 00:24:47,410
Speaker 8: give you another example. One of your favorite dogs is Charlie. Okay,

385
00:24:48,929 --> 00:24:52,850
Speaker 8: I've never owned a German Shepherd over here, but we

386
00:24:53,050 --> 00:24:56,850
Speaker 8: had a dog. But because of the stories that I've told,

387
00:24:57,129 --> 00:24:58,290
Speaker 8: what did they call the dog?

388
00:24:59,209 --> 00:24:59,569
Speaker 6: Charlie?

389
00:25:01,770 --> 00:25:04,010
Speaker 1: By the look on her face, at least doesn't seem

390
00:25:04,090 --> 00:25:07,770
Speaker 1: reassured by the fact that, like her Charlie, the beloved

391
00:25:07,770 --> 00:25:12,729
Speaker 1: German shepherd from her chinlihood, had also been replaced. Although

392
00:25:12,770 --> 00:25:15,530
Speaker 1: I haven't been to the Philippines, it feels as though

393
00:25:15,570 --> 00:25:18,409
Speaker 1: Billy is throwing an entire country under the bus to

394
00:25:18,490 --> 00:25:22,330
Speaker 1: save his own hide. In the silence, I try to

395
00:25:22,330 --> 00:25:24,929
Speaker 1: bring things back to what I think is Billy's strongest suit,

396
00:25:25,570 --> 00:25:29,770
Speaker 1: his seemingly renewed capacity for repentance. I want the least

397
00:25:29,770 --> 00:25:32,769
Speaker 1: to hear what I heard in Billy during our first conversation,

398
00:25:33,770 --> 00:25:35,970
Speaker 1: so I try to steer things in that direction.

399
00:25:38,850 --> 00:25:39,129
Speaker 3: Bill.

400
00:25:42,250 --> 00:25:47,850
Speaker 1: You know you you you mentioned feeling regret. What would

401
00:25:47,889 --> 00:25:50,730
Speaker 1: you do differently if you had a chance to do

402
00:25:50,810 --> 00:25:51,609
Speaker 1: things over.

403
00:25:53,490 --> 00:25:58,290
Speaker 8: I don't think that the final outcome would change much

404
00:25:58,369 --> 00:26:03,969
Speaker 8: to be honest with you, But I should have called

405
00:26:04,490 --> 00:26:07,930
Speaker 8: for a family meeting, and I should have gone over

406
00:26:08,010 --> 00:26:19,290
Speaker 8: it in detail, with times and dates and plans.

407
00:26:19,330 --> 00:26:22,289
Speaker 1: A family meeting about leaving your family was not the

408
00:26:22,369 --> 00:26:25,929
Speaker 1: do over I was expecting. After having heard the level

409
00:26:25,970 --> 00:26:28,770
Speaker 1: of Old Testament shame head express in our first phone call,

410
00:26:29,250 --> 00:26:31,850
Speaker 1: I'm surprised that Billy's now talking in the language of

411
00:26:31,929 --> 00:26:36,209
Speaker 1: meetings and launch dates. Alice stares down at the floor.

412
00:26:36,970 --> 00:26:40,489
Speaker 1: She looks at me. Billy's not giving her what she needs,

413
00:26:41,050 --> 00:26:43,170
Speaker 1: so she puts it to him as directly as she.

414
00:26:43,169 --> 00:26:46,169
Speaker 10: Can, Like, you have to understand that you just disappeared

415
00:26:46,169 --> 00:26:50,409
Speaker 10: and I had no context. Like I want to know

416
00:26:50,530 --> 00:26:53,050
Speaker 10: what you were thinking when you left, and like why

417
00:26:53,129 --> 00:26:57,410
Speaker 10: you left, so like what happened?

418
00:26:59,770 --> 00:27:04,489
Speaker 8: Well, there are lots of things that I would like

419
00:27:04,609 --> 00:27:08,250
Speaker 8: to explain to you. Is dogging.

420
00:27:15,490 --> 00:27:19,409
Speaker 10: Is that I'm here, I'm listening. If there's anything you

421
00:27:19,449 --> 00:27:22,010
Speaker 10: want to say.

422
00:27:24,169 --> 00:27:31,649
Speaker 8: Well, there were several several things that happened at last.

423
00:27:33,369 --> 00:27:39,489
Speaker 8: It's a long story that I would like to explain

424
00:27:39,649 --> 00:27:44,330
Speaker 8: to you step by step. Got kind of a really

425
00:27:44,330 --> 00:27:48,689
Speaker 8: busy schedule today.

426
00:27:51,209 --> 00:27:53,449
Speaker 7: Is there any like brief overview?

427
00:27:55,850 --> 00:27:59,649
Speaker 8: Well, yeah, honey, I can answer your questions. I have

428
00:27:59,689 --> 00:28:05,570
Speaker 8: an explanation, you know, for what happened, and I would

429
00:28:05,649 --> 00:28:10,250
Speaker 8: be more than happy to explain it to you in detail.

430
00:28:12,490 --> 00:28:18,209
Speaker 1: But then nothing. The conversation goes round and round. Billy

431
00:28:18,250 --> 00:28:22,210
Speaker 1: reassures a Lease that he has explanations, explanations of every

432
00:28:22,290 --> 00:28:25,770
Speaker 1: length and level of detail. It's just that he never

433
00:28:25,810 --> 00:28:26,810
Speaker 1: actually shares.

434
00:28:26,530 --> 00:28:31,649
Speaker 8: Any happy to do that. Every question that you may.

435
00:28:31,609 --> 00:28:35,810
Speaker 7: Have, is there anything you've wanted to say to me?

436
00:28:37,209 --> 00:28:40,570
Speaker 8: There won't be a question that you will ask me

437
00:28:40,690 --> 00:28:42,290
Speaker 8: that I won't answer.

438
00:28:42,490 --> 00:28:44,370
Speaker 10: Like right now, you're just telling me that you're going

439
00:28:44,410 --> 00:28:46,330
Speaker 10: to tell me, like do you have anything to have?

440
00:28:50,330 --> 00:28:53,570
Speaker 1: Billy likes to talk about talking about hard things, but

441
00:28:53,650 --> 00:28:58,170
Speaker 1: not actually talking about them. Still, a Lease keeps pushing.

442
00:28:59,010 --> 00:29:01,610
Speaker 7: I understand that it's very painful for you, but I.

443
00:29:03,290 --> 00:29:05,890
Speaker 10: There have been so many times when we've just glossed

444
00:29:05,970 --> 00:29:10,490
Speaker 10: over insane things that have happened, penned crazy things.

445
00:29:13,610 --> 00:29:18,690
Speaker 8: I understand that there's got to be explanations for things,

446
00:29:18,730 --> 00:29:23,130
Speaker 8: support said and options, support clothing, and things that got done.

447
00:29:24,770 --> 00:29:28,330
Speaker 8: And then when all of that is done, you a

448
00:29:28,450 --> 00:29:32,850
Speaker 8: Lass asked her last question, and I have told her

449
00:29:33,130 --> 00:29:34,130
Speaker 8: every single.

450
00:29:33,810 --> 00:29:35,049
Speaker 2: Thing that I want to call her.

451
00:29:39,090 --> 00:29:42,370
Speaker 1: Billy's not making any headway talking about the past, so

452
00:29:42,410 --> 00:29:44,410
Speaker 1: he turns the conversation to the future.

453
00:29:45,250 --> 00:29:49,769
Speaker 8: I'm really hoping that the poor idea she leave this

454
00:29:49,970 --> 00:29:52,209
Speaker 8: place and I get to see you.

455
00:29:52,330 --> 00:29:54,769
Speaker 3: That wish for a more, cos.

456
00:29:55,810 --> 00:29:57,610
Speaker 8: I don't want to die without seeing you.

457
00:29:58,330 --> 00:29:59,209
Speaker 3: I really don't.

458
00:30:03,290 --> 00:30:05,650
Speaker 7: Yeah, I don't. I don't want that either.

459
00:30:08,490 --> 00:30:13,370
Speaker 1: And with that, Alise's hands fall into her lap. As

460
00:30:13,370 --> 00:30:16,650
Speaker 1: an interlocutor, there isn't much for me to do. At least,

461
00:30:16,690 --> 00:30:19,650
Speaker 1: here's what Billy is saying and not saying, and she

462
00:30:19,690 --> 00:30:23,050
Speaker 1: doesn't need any help to understand. So I do the

463
00:30:23,090 --> 00:30:26,570
Speaker 1: only thing I can. I sit beside her, commiserating with

464
00:30:26,650 --> 00:30:31,210
Speaker 1: raised eyebrows and puzzled looks, saying without words, I see

465
00:30:31,209 --> 00:30:41,810
Speaker 1: the same things you do, and it's not you. For

466
00:30:41,850 --> 00:30:44,130
Speaker 1: the rest of the call, at least stays quiet and

467
00:30:44,209 --> 00:30:47,050
Speaker 1: allows Billy to talk, though it feels as though he's

468
00:30:47,050 --> 00:30:48,490
Speaker 1: mostly talking to himself.

469
00:30:49,650 --> 00:30:50,610
Speaker 3: Wouldn't be ill place.

470
00:30:51,890 --> 00:30:55,729
Speaker 8: Don't look backwards anymore, honey, don't go backwards.

471
00:30:55,450 --> 00:30:57,530
Speaker 3: There's too much pain back there.

472
00:30:59,610 --> 00:31:04,130
Speaker 8: Don't go back there. Yes, just outwards form because that

473
00:31:04,330 --> 00:31:05,170
Speaker 8: happened back then.

474
00:31:05,250 --> 00:31:06,170
Speaker 11: But let's go.

475
00:31:07,290 --> 00:31:12,130
Speaker 8: It's just so painful. It hurts. It hurts a lot.

476
00:31:15,410 --> 00:31:18,090
Speaker 1: As Billy tries to push away the past while cowering

477
00:31:18,130 --> 00:31:21,490
Speaker 1: from the future, the present takes hold the when Billy

478
00:31:21,570 --> 00:31:22,370
Speaker 1: can't deny.

479
00:31:23,010 --> 00:31:25,529
Speaker 8: I am totally.

480
00:31:29,010 --> 00:31:34,090
Speaker 3: Okay. Just wait one minutely than on the front, I

481
00:31:34,250 --> 00:31:38,450
Speaker 3: know I'm totally totally responsible for.

482
00:31:38,850 --> 00:31:51,970
Speaker 8: And so, but if there are any other.

483
00:31:53,330 --> 00:31:57,610
Speaker 3: Explanations that I should give to you, least you know,

484
00:31:57,730 --> 00:31:59,730
Speaker 3: I'll be more than happy to do that.

485
00:32:00,250 --> 00:32:03,209
Speaker 8: So I will be more than happy to spend my

486
00:32:03,410 --> 00:32:06,730
Speaker 8: evening starting to explain that to you.

487
00:32:09,130 --> 00:32:12,570
Speaker 1: Billy promises that that evening he'll send a lease an email,

488
00:32:13,370 --> 00:32:17,810
Speaker 1: an email that will explain everything. But it never arrives,

489
00:32:18,570 --> 00:32:21,650
Speaker 1: not that night, or the next, or any night in

490
00:32:21,730 --> 00:32:22,610
Speaker 1: the months that follow.

491
00:32:23,890 --> 00:32:26,370
Speaker 8: I will email you later today, okay.

492
00:32:26,170 --> 00:32:39,130
Speaker 3: Luc Yeah, okay, well, Luce, thank you. I really appreciate it.

493
00:32:41,810 --> 00:32:44,370
Speaker 1: Okay, Bill, Well, have a good rest of the day.

494
00:32:45,209 --> 00:32:48,370
Speaker 7: Yeah, thanks for thanks for talking Dad. I appreciate it.

495
00:32:49,730 --> 00:32:52,329
Speaker 8: Okay, I have a great day, Honey.

496
00:32:52,050 --> 00:32:55,489
Speaker 7: You too, thank you.

497
00:32:56,410 --> 00:33:08,410
Speaker 9: Bye, Okay, how you doing.

498
00:33:12,690 --> 00:33:14,850
Speaker 1: Once we're off the phone, Alise and I go over

499
00:33:14,890 --> 00:33:18,209
Speaker 1: what just happened. She tells me she felt steamrolled, and

500
00:33:18,290 --> 00:33:19,530
Speaker 1: I tell her that I felt it too.

501
00:33:20,890 --> 00:33:24,930
Speaker 10: I wasn't really sure what I wanted to get out

502
00:33:24,930 --> 00:33:30,410
Speaker 10: of it. I don't think that everyone gets sort of

503
00:33:31,730 --> 00:33:37,209
Speaker 10: equally agreeable, compromised ending. But for a long time I

504
00:33:37,209 --> 00:33:39,450
Speaker 10: felt like the burden of us not having a relationship

505
00:33:39,570 --> 00:33:41,810
Speaker 10: was on me because he would email and I would

506
00:33:41,810 --> 00:33:43,810
Speaker 10: never respond, and that was kind of the end of it.

507
00:33:44,690 --> 00:33:48,090
Speaker 10: And I feel like, now that I have tried to

508
00:33:48,170 --> 00:33:52,249
Speaker 10: contact him, like the burden of us not having whatever

509
00:33:52,330 --> 00:33:54,890
Speaker 10: relationship I think we should have is not as much

510
00:33:54,930 --> 00:34:02,250
Speaker 10: on me. I feel a lot less guilt now. Will

511
00:34:02,290 --> 00:34:04,330
Speaker 10: never be as close as it sounds like he wanted

512
00:34:04,410 --> 00:34:07,329
Speaker 10: us to be. I don't think that's likely, and like

513
00:34:07,450 --> 00:34:11,489
Speaker 10: maybe it's okay that I don't push for that. I

514
00:34:11,530 --> 00:34:15,130
Speaker 10: think he creates his own universe like I lived. I

515
00:34:15,210 --> 00:34:18,210
Speaker 10: was a permanent resident of like Billy World for a

516
00:34:18,290 --> 00:34:20,210
Speaker 10: number of years, and I was glad to get off

517
00:34:20,210 --> 00:34:23,050
Speaker 10: the ride. Like you don't get to live in the university.

518
00:34:23,090 --> 00:34:25,730
Speaker 10: You create and expect it not to affect other.

519
00:34:25,570 --> 00:34:46,250
Speaker 1: People, and other people have been affected. In recent months,

520
00:34:46,330 --> 00:34:49,730
Speaker 1: Elise has been corresponding with a British man named Martin,

521
00:34:50,490 --> 00:34:53,010
Speaker 1: and Martin was able to help Alise answer the question

522
00:34:53,370 --> 00:34:55,970
Speaker 1: of why her father left in a way that Billy

523
00:34:56,050 --> 00:35:01,090
Speaker 1: himself couldn't. Martin believes he's Billy's son, born before Billy

524
00:35:01,170 --> 00:35:06,090
Speaker 1: left England for Chattanooga. So, unlike Elise, Martin grew up

525
00:35:06,130 --> 00:35:10,490
Speaker 1: without a father, because, like Alise, one day, without warning,

526
00:35:10,930 --> 00:35:15,610
Speaker 1: his father left, moved to another country and started another family.

527
00:35:16,770 --> 00:35:19,529
Speaker 1: And from what Martin is saying, he's not the only one.

528
00:35:20,250 --> 00:35:23,009
Speaker 1: There's another man living in England, he tells her, who

529
00:35:23,050 --> 00:35:26,170
Speaker 1: also believes that Billy is his father. The two of

530
00:35:26,210 --> 00:35:30,170
Speaker 1: them have been trying to reach Billy for years. In fact,

531
00:35:30,490 --> 00:35:33,450
Speaker 1: it turns out that Martin and Elise have brushed against

532
00:35:33,450 --> 00:35:37,050
Speaker 1: each other before, a long time ago, when Elise was

533
00:35:37,050 --> 00:35:40,450
Speaker 1: growing up. She remembers the home phone ringing, usually around

534
00:35:40,490 --> 00:35:43,610
Speaker 1: the holidays, and a young man with her father's accent

535
00:35:43,730 --> 00:35:47,370
Speaker 1: on the line asking to speak to Billy. Back then,

536
00:35:47,850 --> 00:35:51,250
Speaker 1: Billy said Martin was a distant cousin, And all these

537
00:35:51,330 --> 00:35:54,650
Speaker 1: years later, Martin still feels like he's being pushed away.

538
00:35:55,410 --> 00:36:00,529
Speaker 1: He just wants Billy to acknowledge him. In learning about

539
00:36:00,610 --> 00:36:03,690
Speaker 1: Martin and her other possible half brother, how her story

540
00:36:03,730 --> 00:36:07,010
Speaker 1: has repeated itself over and over, Alise has found the

541
00:36:07,090 --> 00:36:10,930
Speaker 1: answer she needed. The answer Billy himself was never able

542
00:36:10,970 --> 00:36:14,490
Speaker 1: to give her. It isn't about her or about Martin

543
00:36:15,090 --> 00:36:19,130
Speaker 1: or anyone else. The reason Billy did what Billy did

544
00:36:19,810 --> 00:36:31,770
Speaker 1: is because that's what Billy does. Martin and the other

545
00:36:31,810 --> 00:36:34,930
Speaker 1: possible half brother are planning to take a DNA test,

546
00:36:35,250 --> 00:36:37,969
Speaker 1: and they'd like a lease to take one too. If

547
00:36:37,970 --> 00:36:41,049
Speaker 1: their DNA matches hers, Martin says it's all the proof

548
00:36:41,050 --> 00:36:44,210
Speaker 1: they'll need. Billy will have to accept them as his own.

549
00:36:45,570 --> 00:36:47,210
Speaker 1: When I talked to her on the phone about it

550
00:36:47,290 --> 00:36:50,610
Speaker 1: later on, Eli says she isn't sure a DNA test

551
00:36:50,690 --> 00:36:53,650
Speaker 1: will give Martin the thing he's looking for, but she

552
00:36:53,730 --> 00:36:54,610
Speaker 1: does want to help.

553
00:36:55,650 --> 00:36:57,890
Speaker 12: Knowing how much I wanted to closure, it would definitely

554
00:36:57,890 --> 00:37:00,090
Speaker 12: be good to be able to provide him some.

555
00:37:01,610 --> 00:37:04,370
Speaker 1: So the next time she and Martin speak, she'll offer

556
00:37:04,450 --> 00:37:05,050
Speaker 1: him this.

557
00:37:05,650 --> 00:37:07,930
Speaker 12: Whatever relationship you have in your head that you want

558
00:37:08,010 --> 00:37:14,610
Speaker 12: with him is probably not possible, and I can confirm

559
00:37:14,610 --> 00:37:18,570
Speaker 12: that you're genetically related, but that doesn't guarantee that he

560
00:37:18,650 --> 00:37:20,810
Speaker 12: will be a presence in your life in a way

561
00:37:20,810 --> 00:37:25,490
Speaker 12: that you want, because he's not able to do that

562
00:37:25,570 --> 00:37:25,850
Speaker 12: for me.

563
00:37:29,970 --> 00:37:33,010
Speaker 1: In other words, Alise will tell Martin, I see the

564
00:37:33,010 --> 00:37:43,009
Speaker 1: same things you do and it's not you. A few

565
00:37:43,010 --> 00:37:45,610
Speaker 1: months after our call with her father, Alise and I

566
00:37:45,690 --> 00:37:48,730
Speaker 1: check back in. She tells me she still hasn't heard

567
00:37:48,730 --> 00:37:53,090
Speaker 1: from Billy, but she suspects that around the holidays, like always,

568
00:37:53,570 --> 00:37:56,969
Speaker 1: she'll get that three sentence email, and when she does,

569
00:37:57,490 --> 00:38:01,970
Speaker 1: this time she'll write him back happy whatever holiday it is,

570
00:38:02,650 --> 00:38:06,690
Speaker 1: she'll write, hope you're well, Love Elise.

571
00:38:40,410 --> 00:38:41,170
Speaker 12: Now that the.

572
00:38:41,330 --> 00:38:46,210
Speaker 3: Third atures returning to its goodwill.

573
00:38:45,850 --> 00:38:53,690
Speaker 1: Home, Now that the last month's RNT is skiming with

574
00:38:53,970 --> 00:38:58,010
Speaker 1: the dam problem, take this moment to dissolve.

575
00:39:00,570 --> 00:39:02,810
Speaker 9: If we meant him, if we tried to.

576
00:39:04,570 --> 00:39:06,330
Speaker 1: Remember, felt around.

577
00:39:06,090 --> 00:39:07,570
Speaker 4: For far too months.

578
00:39:08,890 --> 00:39:15,650
Speaker 1: To Elise, Hi, how are you.

579
00:39:17,610 --> 00:39:17,770
Speaker 7: Good?

580
00:39:17,850 --> 00:39:21,170
Speaker 1: Do you have another room? It's it sounds very roomy,

581
00:39:21,730 --> 00:39:25,250
Speaker 1: which which is a good quality for a room normally.

582
00:39:25,010 --> 00:39:25,970
Speaker 8: But not for recording.

583
00:39:26,490 --> 00:39:29,130
Speaker 11: Let me, I'm going to go I think sitting on

584
00:39:29,170 --> 00:39:30,090
Speaker 11: the floor in our closet.

585
00:39:30,530 --> 00:39:31,290
Speaker 1: That's the spirit.

586
00:39:31,530 --> 00:39:33,250
Speaker 7: It's going to take me a second to me, so

587
00:39:33,410 --> 00:39:34,330
Speaker 7: just totally.

588
00:39:34,050 --> 00:39:36,010
Speaker 1: Take take your time. This is a very big thing

589
00:39:36,090 --> 00:39:37,090
Speaker 1: that I'm asking of you.

590
00:39:39,490 --> 00:39:40,650
Speaker 4: She hold on, don't put her in.

591
00:39:40,650 --> 00:39:42,010
Speaker 7: The grate because that's where I'm gonna be.

592
00:39:43,930 --> 00:39:50,610
Speaker 11: Yeah, okay, can you hear me now?

593
00:39:50,970 --> 00:39:51,210
Speaker 6: Yes?

594
00:39:51,850 --> 00:39:55,530
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you for your indulgence. Who were you

595
00:39:55,970 --> 00:39:58,770
Speaker 1: explaining to that you were headed for the closet?

596
00:39:59,850 --> 00:40:00,650
Speaker 7: He actually was.

597
00:40:00,650 --> 00:40:02,530
Speaker 11: Thinking about it because it's been like eight years since

598
00:40:02,570 --> 00:40:03,290
Speaker 11: we first chatted.

599
00:40:03,410 --> 00:40:03,610
Speaker 3: Yeah.

600
00:40:03,770 --> 00:40:06,489
Speaker 11: When we first chatted, I had just started dating him

601
00:40:06,490 --> 00:40:07,530
Speaker 11: and he's not my husband.

602
00:40:07,690 --> 00:40:12,770
Speaker 1: Oh cool and sorry. One last unrelated question the crating

603
00:40:12,930 --> 00:40:15,969
Speaker 1: was that a dog you were talking about? Yes, thank god?

604
00:40:18,890 --> 00:40:19,370
Speaker 1: How are you?

605
00:40:20,290 --> 00:40:24,610
Speaker 11: I'm good. I have a number of updates about dad. Oh,

606
00:40:25,490 --> 00:40:30,930
Speaker 11: things have transpired. So there was eventually a younger sibling

607
00:40:31,010 --> 00:40:33,130
Speaker 11: in the Philippines from a different woman.

608
00:40:33,410 --> 00:40:36,650
Speaker 1: Wait sorry, wait, we're talking about little elies.

609
00:40:37,570 --> 00:40:39,090
Speaker 11: No, there was another one after that.

610
00:40:40,010 --> 00:40:43,530
Speaker 1: Oh wow, okay, and she was the last.

611
00:40:43,370 --> 00:40:48,690
Speaker 11: Woman he took up with romantically, was younger than me.

612
00:40:48,890 --> 00:40:49,730
Speaker 11: Her name is Faith.

613
00:40:50,530 --> 00:40:53,250
Speaker 1: How did you learn about this development? Have you and

614
00:40:53,290 --> 00:40:56,570
Speaker 1: your father been in touch very little, like birthdays and

615
00:40:56,890 --> 00:40:57,930
Speaker 1: Christmas kind of thing.

616
00:40:58,250 --> 00:41:01,210
Speaker 11: Yeah, maybe even less frequent than he had been doing beforehand.

617
00:41:01,610 --> 00:41:06,650
Speaker 11: And then at some point between then and twenty twenty four,

618
00:41:06,690 --> 00:41:11,010
Speaker 11: I can't remember exactly when his lack of legal immigration

619
00:41:11,130 --> 00:41:13,610
Speaker 11: status and the Philippines did eventually catch up to him

620
00:41:15,090 --> 00:41:19,010
Speaker 11: and they put him in prison, like in detention essentially

621
00:41:19,170 --> 00:41:20,090
Speaker 11: for a couple of years.

622
00:41:22,050 --> 00:41:25,690
Speaker 1: For he was in prison for a couple of years. Yes,

623
00:41:26,530 --> 00:41:30,530
Speaker 1: in the Philippines, Yes, wow, I.

624
00:41:33,490 --> 00:41:33,770
Speaker 3: Does it?

625
00:41:34,170 --> 00:41:37,370
Speaker 1: Does it even make sense? I mean, I don't know

626
00:41:37,410 --> 00:41:40,890
Speaker 1: anything about Filipino law that being there legally would have

627
00:41:40,890 --> 00:41:43,610
Speaker 1: been enough to put a person in prison for two years.

628
00:41:43,850 --> 00:41:45,650
Speaker 1: Do you think maybe there's more to the story.

629
00:41:46,130 --> 00:41:49,650
Speaker 11: I think it's very possible, because I feel like I

630
00:41:49,730 --> 00:41:54,090
Speaker 11: remember Faith saying to mom that he was getting charged

631
00:41:54,130 --> 00:41:57,170
Speaker 11: with like additional other things that she was so sure

632
00:41:57,330 --> 00:41:59,850
Speaker 11: he didn't do, and me and my mom were like,

633
00:42:00,810 --> 00:42:02,690
Speaker 11: it's much more likely that he did them.

634
00:42:03,330 --> 00:42:03,569
Speaker 9: Wow.

635
00:42:03,850 --> 00:42:06,690
Speaker 1: So how old a man was he at the time

636
00:42:06,770 --> 00:42:09,050
Speaker 1: that they were that he was sent to prison.

637
00:42:09,850 --> 00:42:13,090
Speaker 11: Probably in his seventies at that point, or like just

638
00:42:13,370 --> 00:42:19,490
Speaker 11: close to. Then eventually they did deport him to Guam.

639
00:42:21,530 --> 00:42:28,450
Speaker 11: He eventually ended up in Thailand, and then in fall

640
00:42:28,650 --> 00:42:33,489
Speaker 11: of twenty twenty four, the US embassy started reaching out

641
00:42:33,530 --> 00:42:39,050
Speaker 11: to me because he had been hospitalized in Thailand. This

642
00:42:39,250 --> 00:42:41,050
Speaker 11: is all of this is going to sound very terrible

643
00:42:41,130 --> 00:42:44,290
Speaker 11: to say, but you know, when he was in prison

644
00:42:44,490 --> 00:42:46,969
Speaker 11: and in the hospital, like at least I knew where

645
00:42:47,050 --> 00:42:51,770
Speaker 11: he was, and then I think presumably his medical stuff

646
00:42:51,810 --> 00:42:56,010
Speaker 11: continued to devolve, and then in early essentially just over

647
00:42:56,050 --> 00:42:57,850
Speaker 11: a year ago, he passed away in Thailand.

648
00:42:59,010 --> 00:42:59,810
Speaker 1: Oh I'm sorry.

649
00:43:02,090 --> 00:43:03,090
Speaker 11: Very mixed feelings.

650
00:43:03,250 --> 00:43:06,050
Speaker 7: Yeah, I actually have his ashes and.

651
00:43:06,050 --> 00:43:07,330
Speaker 11: I don't know what to do with them right now.

652
00:43:07,690 --> 00:43:10,650
Speaker 1: And what is the feeling of of having them there?

653
00:43:10,770 --> 00:43:13,250
Speaker 1: Do you feel like, I mean, do you have any

654
00:43:13,330 --> 00:43:14,090
Speaker 1: feelings left?

655
00:43:15,170 --> 00:43:18,489
Speaker 11: It's I was because I after you all reached out,

656
00:43:18,850 --> 00:43:22,810
Speaker 11: I went back and listened to the initial podcast reporting

657
00:43:23,570 --> 00:43:30,370
Speaker 11: and I remember immediately after because we recorded that it

658
00:43:30,450 --> 00:43:33,130
Speaker 11: sort of ended with the phone conversation that you facilitated

659
00:43:33,170 --> 00:43:35,489
Speaker 11: between the two of us, and then within a couple

660
00:43:35,530 --> 00:43:38,250
Speaker 11: of hours that I was driving back from New York

661
00:43:38,290 --> 00:43:45,290
Speaker 11: to DC, and I remember feeling so overwhelmed emotionally. I

662
00:43:45,450 --> 00:43:49,730
Speaker 11: was feeling I think mostly anger at that point because

663
00:43:50,450 --> 00:43:55,010
Speaker 11: I felt so stonewalled and like I couldn't really break

664
00:43:55,250 --> 00:43:58,450
Speaker 11: through to him in any meaningful way. And I remember

665
00:43:59,130 --> 00:44:01,010
Speaker 11: feeling like my heart was racing.

666
00:44:01,090 --> 00:44:01,450
Speaker 7: I was so.

667
00:44:02,930 --> 00:44:07,770
Speaker 11: Angry and sad, and I stopped at like a rest

668
00:44:07,810 --> 00:44:10,290
Speaker 11: stop and called my mom and tried to like work

669
00:44:10,370 --> 00:44:12,490
Speaker 11: through my feelings because I didn't want to drive in

670
00:44:12,570 --> 00:44:13,090
Speaker 11: a rage.

671
00:44:13,210 --> 00:44:14,290
Speaker 7: For three more hours.

672
00:44:16,570 --> 00:44:21,690
Speaker 11: I think I had grieved our relationship so much at

673
00:44:21,810 --> 00:44:25,970
Speaker 11: that point that with his passing, it was more of

674
00:44:26,050 --> 00:44:28,210
Speaker 11: a okay, this is over.

675
00:44:29,170 --> 00:44:31,850
Speaker 1: Do you think that conversation where we called him up?

676
00:44:31,850 --> 00:44:33,610
Speaker 1: I mean, do you think ultimately it was helpful.

677
00:44:35,650 --> 00:44:37,610
Speaker 11: I think it was helpful in.

678
00:44:39,690 --> 00:44:40,210
Speaker 10: Showing me.

679
00:44:42,450 --> 00:44:47,610
Speaker 11: That our relationship, like in many ways, was effectively over

680
00:44:48,050 --> 00:44:52,410
Speaker 11: and that that was unlikely to change. I'm sure there

681
00:44:52,650 --> 00:44:56,170
Speaker 11: are small things that I could have done differently, but

682
00:44:56,290 --> 00:44:59,810
Speaker 11: I don't think there was any I don't think I

683
00:44:59,930 --> 00:45:02,650
Speaker 11: could have behaved in such a way that I got

684
00:45:02,730 --> 00:45:04,690
Speaker 11: my dad back in any meaningful way.

685
00:45:05,850 --> 00:45:06,050
Speaker 3: Yeah.

686
00:45:09,210 --> 00:45:11,930
Speaker 1: Story ends up, you know, with the story of Martin.

687
00:45:12,890 --> 00:45:15,730
Speaker 1: What what became of that? Did you do the Yeah?

688
00:45:15,930 --> 00:45:17,970
Speaker 11: I haven't done. Yeah, I haven't done any DNA testing.

689
00:45:19,050 --> 00:45:21,370
Speaker 11: More from like a data privacy concern.

690
00:45:21,730 --> 00:45:24,410
Speaker 1: Is that the only thing that keeps you from doing it?

691
00:45:24,850 --> 00:45:26,810
Speaker 11: I mean I'm sure there, I'm sure there are other

692
00:45:27,850 --> 00:45:32,370
Speaker 11: uninspected reasons. Yeah, I've clearly never made the effort to

693
00:45:32,410 --> 00:45:34,090
Speaker 11: do it, which is I guess a signal in and

694
00:45:34,170 --> 00:45:34,690
Speaker 11: of itself.

695
00:45:35,010 --> 00:45:35,250
Speaker 9: Yeah.

696
00:45:36,450 --> 00:45:40,009
Speaker 1: So, I mean just generally, like top line, things are good.

697
00:45:40,090 --> 00:45:43,050
Speaker 1: You're doing okay you guys? Yeah, I mean, your husband,

698
00:45:43,130 --> 00:45:44,290
Speaker 1: your dog, Thanks.

699
00:45:44,050 --> 00:45:47,730
Speaker 11: Were great. I'm so glad the dat updates are all wild,

700
00:45:47,890 --> 00:45:52,210
Speaker 11: but I'm grateful for my personal life being relatively stable.

701
00:45:52,850 --> 00:45:55,570
Speaker 1: Thanks Elise, you may exit the closet now.

702
00:45:57,690 --> 00:45:59,730
Speaker 11: Excellent. Thank you, it was good to catch up.

703
00:46:06,570 --> 00:46:09,770
Speaker 1: Thanks to everyone who helped put this episode together. We'll

704
00:46:09,810 --> 00:46:12,650
Speaker 1: be back in two weeks time with something a little different.

705
00:46:13,210 --> 00:46:18,410
Speaker 1: You might even say wildly different. You might say it's

706
00:46:18,490 --> 00:46:19,850
Speaker 1: something of a wild card.

707
00:46:23,930 --> 00:46:24,050
Speaker 3: Oh.

708
00:46:24,250 --> 00:46:28,810
Speaker 1: Also, if you haven't heard, we've started a free newsletter

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720
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721
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Speaker 1: Oh, yes, of course everything needs a link these days.

722
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Speaker 1: The link is patreon dot com. Slash Heavyweight