1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,440 Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nori 3 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:09,039 Speaker 1: with you. Nick Pope with Us worked for the United 4 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:12,479 Speaker 1: Kingdom's Ministry of Defense for twenty one years and for 5 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 1: much of the early times in the nineties. He has 6 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:18,640 Speaker 1: posted it to a division where his duties included were 7 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: searching and investigating the UFO situation to access whether there 8 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: was any evidence of any threat to the defense of 9 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: the United Kingdom. And Nick took early retirement from the 10 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: area in two thousand and six. He now lives here 11 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: in the United States where he works as a broadcast 12 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: journalist specializing in stories on UFOs, they Unexplained conspiracy theories. 13 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: Attends many events that I've attended. He's a noted author 14 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: as well. Some of his books include Encounter and Rundlesome Forest, 15 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: Blood Brothers, Open Skies, Open Minds, DVDs, Aliens at the Pentagon, 16 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: and Indistinguishable from Magic. Nick, welcome back, Good to have you. Yeah, 17 00:00:56,600 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: great to be by John. I am hearing the strange 18 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:03,959 Speaker 1: your story about the COVID Relief Bill and that there 19 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: are uful things included in the bill. I thought we'd 20 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:09,959 Speaker 1: turned to you. You're the guy who knows this stuff. 21 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 1: What's going on? Well, this is a really weird and 22 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 1: complex story, and if you're few twists and turns in it, 23 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 1: so let me rewind a little. We shall indulge you. 24 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: Go ahead. Back in June last year, the Senate Intelligence 25 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: Committee decided enough was enough. They wanted some answers about UFOs, 26 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: so they put into the Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal 27 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: Year twenty twenty one a request that Director of National 28 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: Intelligence worked up a report on UFOs in consultation with 29 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: the Secretary of Defense. Now that was supposed to be 30 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: delivered within one hundred and eighty days of the bill 31 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: being enacted. But what then happened was, as I say, 32 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: all these legislative twists and turns. Firstly it went into 33 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 1: the National Defense Authorization Act, and latterly what happened was 34 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: the Intelligence Authorization Act got swept up into the COVID 35 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 1: nineteen relief bill. And so that's why the UFO material 36 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,079 Speaker 1: is in this. That's bizarre. How much money is in there? 37 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: Do you know? Well, I mean the money for COVID 38 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: is like you know, it's billion billions, But there's I 39 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: mean there's no specific money for UFOs, but what there 40 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: is is this requirement that Director of National Intelligence basically 41 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: does a number of different things. And this was all 42 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: This was all articulated in the Intelligence Authorization Act, and 43 00:02:55,840 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: it's been triggered by enactment of the the COVID Bill, 44 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 1: which was signed and became law on well, let me 45 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 1: see December twenty seven, So the clock's ticking, that's the point, 46 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 1: and I think it's June twenty fifth is the latest 47 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:16,800 Speaker 1: day on which this report must be delivered. And what 48 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: this report is going to have to do is, first 49 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 1: of all, answer the question that the Intelligence Committee asked, 50 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 1: which is who in government is doing this? Because they 51 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,680 Speaker 1: complained that so many different parts of the government, military, 52 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 1: and the intelligence community were into this, but nobody was 53 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: drawing it all together. And that's what they want. Will 54 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: we see the report? We will see. It says there 55 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 1: must be the report must be unclassified, so that is 56 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: something that can and will, I think, be released. But 57 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: it goes on to say it may have a classified annex. 58 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: So the bad news is that I think the front 59 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: end of this report, the unclassified bit, could be quite short, 60 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: very bland, good stuff, you know, where I'm going with 61 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: this stuff, it's going to be classified and we won't 62 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: get to see that blacked out and everything else. Now, 63 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: what agency or who might be responsible for putting the 64 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 1: report together? Well, that's interesting. Director of National Intelligence has 65 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:26,840 Speaker 1: been given the lead, and I guess that's just simply 66 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: because it's the Senate Intelligence Committee who were driving this, 67 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 1: although the Armed Services Committee is involved too. So DNI 68 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:42,040 Speaker 1: has the lead and he's been told when he does 69 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: this that he must the a's with the Secretary of 70 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:52,479 Speaker 1: Defense and all other heads of agencies as jointly deemed necessary. Now, 71 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: that's definitely going to include the FBI director because the 72 00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: FBI specifically mentioned in there, but it it may sweep 73 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: up all sorts of other people in government. This, as 74 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 1: I say, was one of the big complaints that the 75 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 1: Intelligence Committee had that this is so fragmented in government 76 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:15,720 Speaker 1: even they couldn't figure out exactly who was doing exactly 77 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 1: what might they have a spokesperson as well, like a 78 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:22,720 Speaker 1: Nick Pope, who will go public with wherever the report 79 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 1: might show, assuming they're going to talk about it. Well, again, 80 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: that's an interesting point. They have been asked to nominate 81 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:36,719 Speaker 1: a single official within government who will have overarching responsibility 82 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 1: for this. Now that's not somebody in public affairs. I 83 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: mean public affairs will still do the media side of this. 84 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:47,719 Speaker 1: This is somebody who will sit and have policy responsibility 85 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: and specifically gone into the wording of this. That's one 86 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: of the specific deliverables that they want. Would you do 87 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 1: it if you were appointed? Oh yeah, I'd get back 88 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:02,039 Speaker 1: in the saddle. Why the heck not? And at least 89 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: you tell us the truth? My god, well, you know, 90 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 1: of course I'd have to be read in on a 91 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 1: whole bunch of new programs, and I don't know, George, 92 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:17,279 Speaker 1: I couldn't promise. I think you would. I think you would. 93 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:23,799 Speaker 1: Would it lead to congressional hearings on UFOs? Well, now, 94 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: originally there was probably more lobbying for congressional hearings than 95 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:32,599 Speaker 1: for this sort of report. But then I think people 96 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:35,039 Speaker 1: people said, well, wait a minute. You know, we've had 97 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:39,359 Speaker 1: congressional hearings before in the sixties. It was interesting, but 98 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: it didn't really deliver anything. These things tend to when 99 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: you get the hearings. You know better than I. Half 100 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 1: of its political grandstanding and half of it is just 101 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:54,840 Speaker 1: people kind of going down rabbit holes, right, you know, 102 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 1: so it might. But in one way, I think this 103 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: report that's called for by you by virtue of the 104 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:06,720 Speaker 1: COVID release bill being enacted, the report might be a 105 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: better way forward here. But I wouldn't rule out congressional hearings, 106 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: and certainly they'd be interesting as they do happen. Well, 107 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: the appearance of President elect Joe Biden coming in. What 108 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: do you think is going to happen in that arena? 109 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 1: I have no idea what Joe Biden's view on all 110 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: this is, and I have not heard him make any 111 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 1: public statement about it whatsoever. But what is a little 112 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 1: fascinating piece of the puzzle I think is that, of 113 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 1: course the VP elect Kamala Harris, she sits on the 114 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 1: Intelligence Committee and on the Senate Intelligence Committee, so she, 115 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: one assumes, is one of the senators who has already 116 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: been briefed on what's going on in government, and it 117 00:07:56,000 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: may well be that she, more than Joe Biden, takes 118 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: the lead on this. That could be. Either one is 119 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 1: fine with me, how about you? Yeah, as long as 120 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: somebody grips it, that's the point now. And of course 121 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: the other, the other absolute unknown here is that we 122 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: still have two more weeks of President Trump, So that's right. 123 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: Still could be if he knows something, and he's certainly hinted. 124 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: I mean you've probably seen the statements that he's made 125 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:33,439 Speaker 1: over the last few months, and some of them quite provocative, 126 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 1: quite teasing. I don't know whether it comes from genuine 127 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 1: knowledge of this or whether he is just kind of 128 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 1: giving people a line. But if he does know something, 129 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 1: if he is the gatekeeper of the secret, he has 130 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: two weeks, and my goodness, it would be the ultimate 131 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:57,439 Speaker 1: way to cement his legacy. And here's an interesting thought, 132 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 1: it could be the ultimate monkey ranch for the humming 133 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: Biden administration. That could be. Now. The former head of 134 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:08,959 Speaker 1: the CIA, John Brennan, has said it's presumptuous and arrogant 135 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: to believe that there are no other forms of life 136 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 1: than the ones on earth. That's pretty dramatic. Yeah, this 137 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: was an interview he gave about two or three weeks ago, 138 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:25,560 Speaker 1: and he was asked about the US Navy sightings and 139 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 1: those three videos that everyone's seen of the jets chasing 140 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 1: the UFOs, and he started off fairly bland and nondescript, 141 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: and oh, he started talking about whether phenomenon and I 142 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:40,199 Speaker 1: was listening to this and I thought, oh, yeah, he's 143 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 1: gonna very safe answer. And suddenly at the end of 144 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: it he unpacks this phrase where he says, well, some people, 145 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 1: of course, might say that it constitutes something which might 146 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 1: be described as another form of life. And I went, 147 00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: what did he just say? That was pretty dramatic stuff. 148 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: What would compel him to say that? Nick, Well, it 149 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: was just a few days after this senior Israeli space scientist, 150 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: that's right, I am a Shad had made some really 151 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: provocative remarks. So I am always interested in a little 152 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: bit suspicious when two people from different backgrounds at senior level, 153 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: within days of each other, with no real track record 154 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:34,560 Speaker 1: of talking about this issue, suddenly come out with such 155 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 1: provocative statements, because it almost looks like a plan is 156 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 1: coming together. I was going to say, if it's a 157 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 1: setup just to lead us in a funny different direction, 158 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: and they were making this up, what would the reason 159 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:51,079 Speaker 1: for that be. Well, it could be I suppose, as 160 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 1: the UFO community would hope for a prelude to disclosure. 161 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 1: But on the other hand, if I'm being suspicious, and 162 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:02,719 Speaker 1: if I'm looking at this through the eyes of you know, 163 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 1: maybe someone with an intelligence background. I would think maybe 164 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 1: they're trying to distract us from something else in trouble. 165 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:15,959 Speaker 1: With all these sorts of highly classified, deep decompartmentalized programs, 166 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 1: one never knows. It's It's the archetypal hall of mirrors, 167 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:22,439 Speaker 1: isn't it. You've been at this for a long time. 168 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: Have you seen the last several years as a major 169 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 1: turning point in ufology? Yes, absolutely, no doubt about it. 170 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 1: This whole subject has moved from fringe to mainstream in 171 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: the last three years. I think one could say that 172 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 1: the December sixteenth, twenty seventeen article in the New York 173 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: Times was probably the trigger point for that. But since that, 174 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: revelation after revelation after revelation on this, and I mean, 175 00:11:55,360 --> 00:12:00,440 Speaker 1: there's so many developments. You know, three years ago the 176 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: public line of the US government was we're not interested 177 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 1: and we're not investigating. And now look where we are 178 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,560 Speaker 1: all absolutely now you had headed up the Ministry of 179 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:14,319 Speaker 1: Defense's UFOL files for some time, and what's new out there? 180 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 1: Are you picking up any more information? Well, a couple 181 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 1: of interesting things early last year, and I think we 182 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 1: might have talked about this, and I think I said 183 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:31,439 Speaker 1: to you it had been revealed that the British Ministry Defense, 184 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 1: we're going to declassify and release some more files, and 185 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: I think we were going to chat about and we 186 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: were looking forward to it, and then of course COVID 187 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:45,679 Speaker 1: nineteen hit and then they said, well, you know, originally 188 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: we'd planned to get this out in the first quarter 189 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty. Then Freedom of Information Act requests were 190 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 1: one of the first things that really got hit hard 191 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 1: by COVID because you know, I understand the priorities were elsewhere. 192 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: And then it was like, well, we'll try and get 193 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: it done later in the year. And then it was well, 194 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: I we'll try and get it done by the end 195 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 1: of the year. And we're still waiting. We're still waiting. 196 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: Is it ever going to come out? It will, It 197 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: will have to, but I don't think there's going to 198 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 1: be a smoking gun. But obviously everything that we have 199 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 1: is useful. I mean, you can never have too much 200 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 1: data in this subject. And you know, it might come 201 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:29,719 Speaker 1: out this week, it might be next week, it might 202 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: be next month, but it will come. Listen to more 203 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 1: Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at one am Eastern 204 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 1: and go to Coast to Coast AM dot com for 205 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 1: more