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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We'll retalk truecrime

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Speaker 2: all the time. It's Sunday, July twenty seventh, and we

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Speaker 2: have a stacked night of headlines. Forensic expert Joseph Scott

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Speaker 2: Morgan is here to help us understand the new crime

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Speaker 2: scene information in the Idaho student murder case. Court is

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Speaker 2: continuing for James Craig. He's the dentist who is accused

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Speaker 2: of poisoning his wife. And get this, the lead investigator

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Speaker 2: claims to have it on video. Later, Joseph Scott Morgan

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Speaker 2: will tell us about a potential serial killer in Alabama

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Speaker 2: and the reason media outlets are not covering it. But first,

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Speaker 2: you know him and you love him. It is our

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Speaker 2: favorite for forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan. He is joining

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Speaker 2: us for another Sunday to unpack forensics. Joseph is the

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Speaker 2: host of his own hit podcast, Body Bags, and is

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Speaker 2: also featured in Kati's Studio's documentary Everyone Should See it.

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Speaker 2: It's the Idhost Student Murders, which is streaming on Peacock.

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Speaker 2: I'm Courtney Armstrong. Stephanie Leidecker is out this evening, but

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Speaker 2: I'm here as always with Body Movin, our premier data

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Speaker 2: analyst and crime analyst, and of course Joseph.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much for being here.

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Speaker 4: Thanks for having me. Guys. It's always a pleasure to

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Speaker 4: be on the air. Always good to see I look

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Speaker 4: forward to it, and this is I need support this week.

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Speaker 4: This has been a long week, man, you guys. I

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Speaker 4: am dog tired, we trained, you know, mentally drained everything else.

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Speaker 4: I'm glad that we can be together this evening.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, it has been a week, and of course,

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Speaker 5: you know we've been talking about everything that happened last week,

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Speaker 5: and we're going to cover that in just a moment.

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Speaker 5: But for you, Joseph, I've seen you everywhere, literally everywhere,

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Speaker 5: talking about the you know, the ungagging of the student

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Speaker 5: murder's case in Idaho and what's come out since then

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Speaker 5: and now. And we've only been doing it a couple

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Speaker 5: hours a night for the past week. You've been everywhere.

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Speaker 5: You must be just completely emotionally drained. Your brain must

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Speaker 5: be much at this point, So we really appreciate you

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Speaker 5: being here, especially just after this really heavy week we've

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Speaker 5: all had.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, And it's nothing, and I mean nothing compared

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Speaker 4: to the burden that these families have had to be

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Speaker 4: right all these years now, all of these years. And

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Speaker 4: I've reflected on this, I thought over the past week,

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Speaker 4: do because you know, I hate closure. I hate that word.

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Speaker 4: But I wonder if they feel any relief at all

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Speaker 4: knowing that this individual is secured away and that knowing,

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Speaker 4: knowing that people finally know the story as much as

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Speaker 4: we have of it right now. I wonder if there's

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Speaker 4: relief with that, and I hope there is, and I

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Speaker 4: hope that there's some I don't know, measure of peace.

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Speaker 4: Maybe daily piece is imparted to them and some I hope. So,

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Speaker 4: I truly do.

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Speaker 2: I think everyone does, especially after seeing the victim's impact statements,

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Speaker 2: which happened just the other day, the same day of sentencing.

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Speaker 2: But listen, we've all been following this case, we know

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Speaker 2: you have largely from the beginning, and today we are

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Speaker 2: going to unpack all of the new information that's been

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Speaker 2: coming out just about the murders and also to see

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Speaker 2: if we can learn something from what's been going on.

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Speaker 2: So body, can you bring everyone up to speed on

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Speaker 2: the latest?

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Speaker 5: Where are we right? So Brian Coberger inmate one six

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Speaker 5: three two one four, which is how we should refer

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Speaker 5: to him, but I know we can't because people who

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Speaker 5: need to be familiar with the case, they're not going

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Speaker 5: to know what we're talking about. But inmate one six

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Speaker 5: three two one four, he's been transferred to Idaho's maximum

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Speaker 5: security prison, where he will be evaluated and likely placed

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Speaker 5: in near solitary confinement. So after two years of you know,

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Speaker 5: pleading his innocence, saying he's not guilty, and blaming other

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Speaker 5: people and you know, trying to get all these motion

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Speaker 5: to dismiss he has pled guilty, and you know, he

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Speaker 5: has confessed to the brutal murders of four University of

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Speaker 5: Idaho students. I think it's important that we know their names,

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Speaker 5: Kaylee Consolves, Ethan Chapin, Xana Kernodle, and Madison Mogen in

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Speaker 5: early July of this year. Brian Coberger was sentenced to

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Speaker 5: four consecutive life sentences on July twenty third and transferred

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Speaker 5: to the Idaho maxim Security Institution, where he is going

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Speaker 5: to be undergoing evaluation for his long term placement, and

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Speaker 5: I hope that you know his long term placement is

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Speaker 5: horrific and terrifying, and that he suffers greatly. After reading

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Speaker 5: all of these documents this past week, it's it's been

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Speaker 5: really difficult. I can't like and I want to echo

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Speaker 5: what Joseph said, I can't imagine all the families. You know,

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Speaker 5: I think when you were talking about the families, we

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Speaker 5: have to remember there's four of them, right, and so

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Speaker 5: you know in many cases six because you know they've

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Speaker 5: remarried or whatnot. And those people are also impawt and

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Speaker 5: they're not like a group. Well they are, but they

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Speaker 5: don't think as a group. They all have their individual

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Speaker 5: feelings and all of them are completely valid. And you know,

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Speaker 5: who are we to tell any family member how they

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Speaker 5: should feel. But our heart does go out to them,

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Speaker 5: and we hope that you know, here at True Crime Tonight,

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Speaker 5: we can treat tonight with a lot of care and

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Speaker 5: respect because we're going to be talking about the forensics,

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Speaker 5: and you know, some of it is pretty pretty gruesome.

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Speaker 2: It's graphic, and I mean, honestly, this should probably be

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Speaker 2: a trigger warning to anyone there will be forensics and

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Speaker 2: to echobody, we will be doing it clinically with our

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Speaker 2: forensics expert and going over the stuff that would there

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Speaker 2: have been a trial. Should b K have not plt out,

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Speaker 2: we would have seen unfold over the course of the trial,

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Speaker 2: and instead it's.

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Speaker 5: Being delivered from the court in this way.

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Speaker 2: Joseph, is there anything, and I know there's a lot

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Speaker 2: to get through, Is there anything that stood out to

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Speaker 2: you first thing of good question?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I don't know.

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Speaker 4: I think you know now that everything that has come

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Speaker 4: to light for me, I've had a couple of people

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Speaker 4: ask this. Even in my own mind, I don't think

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Speaker 4: I was prepared for the level of violence. That's as

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Speaker 4: plain and simple as I can put it. Maybe part

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Speaker 4: of me, as a as a father and a grandpa,

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Speaker 4: was hoping there wouldn't be as much. But from what

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Speaker 4: has been revealed to this point, for me at least,

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Speaker 4: is more overwhelming I think than even I anticipated. I

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Speaker 4: knew that it was going to be bad, but I

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Speaker 4: don't think that I anticipated that to this degree. And

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Speaker 4: again I echo your sentiments about respect, you know, for us,

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Speaker 4: and being sensitive to that. But this is the reality

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Speaker 4: of what people people need to understand what he did

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Speaker 4: and it needs to be remembered. And again going back

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Speaker 4: to you know, the sentencing is what's so unfortunate about

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Speaker 4: the absence of an allocution that this in a trial,

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Speaker 4: to just the absence of a trial. And I'm glad

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Speaker 4: the family didn't have to go through the trial. Okay,

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Speaker 4: understand that, but you know, people have wanted to know

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Speaker 4: for a protracted period of time, you know what happened

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Speaker 4: that night, And just from my little world of medical

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Speaker 4: legal death investigation, I think that it was more shocking

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Speaker 4: than Eve and I anticipated.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I echo that, I like I like you. I

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Speaker 5: knew it was violent, but the actual brutality of it all.

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Speaker 5: And you know, one thing that hit me, and I

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Speaker 5: don't know why it did, but it was when I

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Speaker 5: was reading one of the documents about the autopsy and

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Speaker 5: they were talking about what the victims were wearing and that,

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Speaker 5: you know, they had handbags on their hands, and for

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Speaker 5: some reason, I don't know why, but that's when I

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Speaker 5: kind of started crying, you know, and feeling it. It

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Speaker 5: got real heavy for me. They were wearing their pajamas

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Speaker 5: and now they're wearing handbags. Yeah, and it was just

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Speaker 5: it really hit me for some reason. Out of all

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Speaker 5: the things and all the brutality and all those on

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Speaker 5: these documents, that's what got me right now.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's one of the things that happens, I think

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Speaker 4: in medical legal death investigation when you start to look

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Speaker 4: at an autopsy report, or when you start to look

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Speaker 4: at a field report, suddenly the again I've said it

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Speaker 4: for a long time, the abnormal is taken into the

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Speaker 4: context of the normal. You know, we live these normal

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Speaker 4: lives and you have this monster that descends upon you

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Speaker 4: and wreaks havoc in hell upon everybody.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, very true. This is true crime tonight on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: I'm Courtney Armstrong. I'm here with Body move In and

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Speaker 2: forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan. We're talking about the documents

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Speaker 2: that have come forth in the Idaho student murder case.

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Speaker 2: If you have any questions whatsoever, Joseph is here to

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Speaker 2: answer them for you. Eighty eight three one Crime or

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Speaker 2: you can also hit us on the talkbacks on iHeartRadio

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Speaker 2: and actually we have one now.

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Speaker 6: Hi, guys, just regarding the Brian Coburger I had hosted

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Speaker 6: a murder's house still being up or being torn down?

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Speaker 6: I agree with body that it should have been torn

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Speaker 6: down because I have friends who went to to go

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Speaker 6: to Florida State University, which is where Ted Bundy murdered

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Speaker 6: the Kylemega sorority girls in the house, and I've always

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Speaker 6: thought it was so creepy and upsetting that that house

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Speaker 6: was still up and that sorority girl still live there, Like,

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Speaker 6: how do you still feel safe and you're not thinking

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Speaker 6: about the ghosts of those girls haunting you?

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Speaker 7: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: I mean not only that, but you know, the one

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Speaker 5: of the victim's brother, you know, lived at the sorority

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Speaker 5: across the street and woke up every morning and was

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Speaker 5: able to look at that house with the caution tape

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Speaker 5: around it for months and months and months. And you know, again,

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Speaker 5: I'm going to maintain that I don't believe a jury

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Speaker 5: would have ever been able to enter that house. I

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Speaker 5: think it was too forensically altered floors, walls. The judge

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Speaker 5: would never have allowed acoustic testing with the jury there.

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Speaker 5: I just don't think the jury would have gone in there.

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Speaker 5: On the other hand, I do think forensically there could

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Speaker 5: have been things they could have missed. You know, that

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Speaker 5: experts could have gone in and gotten things so on

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Speaker 5: that side of things. I can understand why people are upset.

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Speaker 2: It was torn down early, So Joseph, I've had the

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Speaker 2: benefit of doing interviews and having discussions with you on

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Speaker 2: the podcast, and I have a feeling, unless you've changed

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Speaker 2: your view, do you want to let people know what

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Speaker 2: you're feeling about when the house was demolished?

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Speaker 5: What is your feeling?

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Speaker 4: Was not a fan when I found out that they

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Speaker 4: had done it at all, and I made that known

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Speaker 4: stand by that assertion from early on. Now it's a

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Speaker 4: moot point now, and I'm glad that it's gone, just

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Speaker 4: like he is gone, and I think that it is

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Speaker 4: time to move on. However, again, I go back to

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Speaker 4: two other events in time, where why is it that

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Speaker 4: would this case where to make an exception? And you know,

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Speaker 4: many of us that have worked in the field for

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Speaker 4: a long time have handled cases in houses, and there

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Speaker 4: have been multiple homicides in houses. There are actual different events,

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Speaker 4: and those structures were never worn down. Why tear this

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Speaker 4: one down? And now that the scene is sign sealed

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Speaker 4: and delivered. I have no problem with being down now.

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Speaker 4: I just think that it was a hell of a

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Speaker 4: risk take early on, before all the pieces were in place,

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Speaker 4: and again, I'll never You'll never persuade me otherwise. And

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Speaker 4: I reflect back to Parkland with that horrible, horrible event,

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Speaker 4: and that's how they kept you lockdown.

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Speaker 5: Isn't Parkland still kind of intact or am I?

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Speaker 4: You know, I'm not really sure at this point. It

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Speaker 4: had utility though in that trial, and I think that

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Speaker 4: that's the most important, and then went to great links

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Speaker 4: to kind of secure it and of course coordinate. You know,

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Speaker 4: all we have to do is think back to Pike them. Yes,

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Speaker 4: and we think about those trade I mean, how crazy

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Speaker 4: is that? You know, you think about those structures actually

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Speaker 4: physically being moved in my lord? How many hours did

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Speaker 4: we talk about that?

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Speaker 5: Yes?

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Speaker 4: And do you remember that they failed at one point

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Speaker 4: time to secure the gate where they had actually secured

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Speaker 4: those places? You know, a reporter went to the gate

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Speaker 4: and I'm talking about piked and where the lock was

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Speaker 4: not locked. And so security is paramount, and any of

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Speaker 4: these things, you want to lock it down and keep it,

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Speaker 4: keep it held in place tightly so that you know

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Speaker 4: you can't go back and receieve. But now I think

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Speaker 4: that we're past that, We're past that market.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, fair enough.

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Speaker 5: Later in the show, though, we have eighteen murders in

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Speaker 5: Alabama that have been connected to the same twenty two

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Speaker 5: year old. Could there be a serial killer? And the

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Speaker 5: lead investigator in the ongoing Colorado dopey dentist trial testified

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Speaker 5: to video of him potentially mixing the poison. Wow, So

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Speaker 5: that's pretty insane. But right now we have a caller.

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Speaker 8: Hi, christ how are you good?

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Speaker 3: How are you?

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Speaker 9: Hey? How are you?

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Speaker 8: I'm doing really well.

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Speaker 3: Thanks.

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Speaker 8: I have a question for Joseph Scott Morgan.

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Speaker 4: Okay, Hey, Kristen.

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Speaker 8: So, there was a large chunk of I guess plaster

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Speaker 8: removed from the wall of Maddie's bedroom and it is

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Speaker 8: in the location of and in the size.

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Speaker 5: Of her death, right next to her death.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, next to her death. And I'm wondering why do

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Speaker 8: you think that chunk was removed and do you think

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Speaker 8: there's could there be anything that happened in that in

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Speaker 8: that area.

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Speaker 7: Of the room.

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Speaker 5: That's a good question, something I've been actually talking about

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Speaker 5: quite a bit.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean, from my perspective, I think that the

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Speaker 4: number one candidate is probably going to be blood deposition,

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Speaker 4: anything that is cast off, And I often describe it

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Speaker 4: this way to my students. Just imagine taking a paint

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Speaker 4: brush and dipping it into a paint pail and just

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Speaker 4: kind of flicking it over your shoulder. Also, it's not

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Speaker 4: just dynamic deposition. It could be for instance, it can

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Speaker 4: be a transfer. Say, for instance, if you're wearing clothing

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Speaker 4: that's super saturated with blood and you got to lean

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Speaker 4: on a particular area, that's actually a transfer of blood

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Speaker 4: to an object. The only other thing I could really

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Speaker 4: think about probably is in because this is a very

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Speaker 4: violent event. I don't know if it carried over that

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Speaker 4: far the actual violence, perpetration the violence. But if you

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Speaker 4: have an individual that punches a wall, that bump into

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Speaker 4: a wall, particularly if it's sheet rock, you can have

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Speaker 4: actual trace transfer that goes into that, just into the

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Speaker 4: gypsum that makes up the actual sheet rock that'll transfer

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Speaker 4: onto there. And also the gypsum will transfer onto the

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Speaker 4: clothing of an individual as well. I've seen that happen.

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Speaker 5: Thank you for the ca Kristen. The reason that I

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Speaker 5: think the reason she's asking this is because the documents

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Speaker 5: tell us that Kaylee's bed looks like it had been

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Speaker 5: slept in or it had been turned down, like she

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Speaker 5: had been in bed and gotten up and since the

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Speaker 5: faral target scan back in Halloween of twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 5: we've gotten pictures from inside Bettie's room with that wall

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Speaker 5: cut out. So we've been wondering for a minute, a

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Speaker 5: hot minute, if Kaylee was actually in bed, and the

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Speaker 5: Dylan is emphatic that she heard Kaylee run down the

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Speaker 5: stairs and say someone's here and then run back up,

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Speaker 5: but the police are implying that was Xanna. So there's

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Speaker 5: often there's a lot of talk about did Kaylee interrupt

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Speaker 5: him and that's why he was so upset with her?

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Speaker 5: You know, like just from the forensics from the report,

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Speaker 5: Kaylee was brutalized, Yeah, like absolutely brutalized. Yeah, And did

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Speaker 5: he interrupt? Did he interrupt? Did she interrupt him and

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Speaker 5: he was just furious at her for this? Or did

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Speaker 5: Zana see him and that interrupt him. So there's just

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Speaker 5: a lot of talk about who But the point is

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Speaker 5: is somebody interrupted him, though at some point we don't

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Speaker 5: know who it was.

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Speaker 2: But if you're just joining us, we're talking about the

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Speaker 2: Idaho student College murders. Brian Coolberger has just been sentenced

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Speaker 2: and is behind bars for life, and that is for

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Speaker 2: murdering Hailey Gonzalvez, Ethan Shapin, Xana Kernodle, and Madison Mogan.

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Speaker 2: So those are the four victims that we're referring to.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, there was also two roommates thankfully spared at

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Speaker 2: the house body that you were mentioning. So there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of players and some confusion. I think we actually

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Speaker 2: have a talkback to go to how back number two.

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Speaker 10: Hey, ladies, Sisiligan, I agree. I feel like this BK

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Speaker 10: case has just been a tipping point for me in

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Speaker 10: terms of how I feel safe in certain places. Oh,

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Speaker 10: I deleted all my social media last year, but still

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Speaker 10: the sister whole new level. Well, thank you Boddy for

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Speaker 10: the recommendation on Google Maps. That's something that's always creeped

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Speaker 10: me out. My question is, after reading all the documents,

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Speaker 10: do we really think that Kaylee and Maddie were asleep

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Speaker 10: when this happened. I just feel with how their bodies

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Speaker 10: were found in Dylan's statements that maybe they were placed

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Speaker 10: that way. It's just off to me.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, And that's another thing. Did Kaylee open

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Speaker 5: the door and oh my god, someone's here, right, and

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Speaker 5: that interrupt him and he attack her at the end

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Speaker 5: of the bed and kind of throw her onto the bed.

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Speaker 5: We don't know. The police are kind of opining that

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Speaker 5: it was Xana that interrupted him and that's why he

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Speaker 5: left the sheath. Some of the forensics tells us that

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Speaker 5: it was Kaylee, but we don't know all the forensics

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Speaker 5: yet either. There's still a lot of sealed documents. There's

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Speaker 5: still so much This is all just speculation at this point,

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Speaker 5: irregardless who whichever victim, Xana or Kaylee, one of them

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Speaker 5: interrupted him, and you know, unfortunately that's why he left

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Speaker 5: the sheath.

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Speaker 2: I think, And Joseph, do you have a thought and

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Speaker 2: I you know, as body mentioned, not all of the

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Speaker 2: forensics have been released, but do you have a thought

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Speaker 2: to what that color just said.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's again keep using this word dynamic in this

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Speaker 4: particular case, because it is dynamic. It's in the dark.

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Speaker 4: There's an element of surprise that goes on here, and

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Speaker 4: it's really hard to kind of this kind of literal

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Speaker 4: dance with death that goes on. You don't know how

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Speaker 4: it actually went down when you consider the positionality of

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Speaker 4: the bodies. And it's important to understand. I think that

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Speaker 4: we do have more information now, but not everything has

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Speaker 4: been revealed. I am really keen on trying to understand

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Speaker 4: a lot of the blood deposition, and I mean in

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Speaker 4: like granular detail, to try to understand the movements around

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Speaker 4: the location and any kind of deposition that would have

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Speaker 4: been on the floor of the walls. We go back

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Speaker 4: to the earlier from Kristen that call relative to that,

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Speaker 4: I think that it's going to be really important to

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Speaker 4: try to understand that. And if you're looking to the

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Speaker 4: bedclothes themselves, the sheets, you know there was this pink

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Speaker 4: blanket that was involved in that sort of thing. I

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Speaker 4: want to know the origin point of origin of that.

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Speaker 4: Is that something that was done after the fact. Is

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Speaker 4: that something that he had done?

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Speaker 5: Because it does say they were both under the.

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Speaker 4: Cover, right, Yeah, it does say that. And again you

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Speaker 4: go to this thing of people covering bodies after homicides.

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Speaker 4: If that happened, that's a very significant piece of.

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Speaker 5: This, right it is a very because that's one thing

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Speaker 5: people say, that's why it wasn't Kaylee that interrupted him,

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Speaker 5: because she was under the covers, right, So that's a

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Speaker 5: really good thing to bring up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and Joseph, what do you find from all of

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Speaker 2: your experience? What do you find is the significance. And

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Speaker 2: I ask, because listen, this is as like a TV

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Speaker 2: and movie watcher. It's to my TV knowledge, it would

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Speaker 2: be oh, because you knew the person and I had

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Speaker 2: reverence for them. But what are other potential interpretations as.

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Speaker 4: Far as covering goes. Yes, I think probably the biggest

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Speaker 4: thing that jumps to mind is familiarity with an individual,

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Speaker 4: and a lot can be read into that when people

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Speaker 4: start talking about the history onics of this case. And

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Speaker 4: this again is in the profiling section, not my section,

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Speaker 4: but we read these things that seems as actual eyes

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Speaker 4: on people and you begin to think about who who

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Speaker 4: would take the time to cover a body? And you know,

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Speaker 4: we make note of that at the scene because it's significant.

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Speaker 4: And here's something else I think that's important. I want

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Speaker 4: to know who had ownership of that blanket, who's the

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Speaker 4: actual owner? Is this Kayley's or is this Mattie's blanket?

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Speaker 4: Is it something that was brought in or is it

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Speaker 4: something that had dwelled there previously. It's very important to

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Speaker 4: try to understand that, and also the level of saturation

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Speaker 4: of blood that was on that blanket as well.

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Speaker 5: Right, And then we learned from Steve Consolves that the

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Speaker 5: blood pooling for Kayley, his daughter, his lovely, beautiful, wonderful daughter,

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Speaker 5: indicated that she was sitting up when she was getting attacked. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: and I think, you know, that's interesting. One thing I

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Speaker 5: wanted to ask you one of the documents is it's

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Speaker 5: number two forty six, if that's important to anybody. It

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Speaker 5: is an interview with one of Brian's like co students

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Speaker 5: at WSU, and it talks about like some of his

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Speaker 5: personality and you know, he kind of thought Brian Coberger

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Speaker 5: was a liar because he had lied about flying home

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Speaker 5: and he was using his position as an authority as

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Speaker 5: a TA to inappropriately interact with female students. It gives

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Speaker 5: a little bit of background on who he thought Brian

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Speaker 5: Coberger was, and it wasn't a good guy. But in

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Speaker 5: this document he mentions that Brian Coberger on two different

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Speaker 5: occasions had kind of strange injuries. He had scratches to

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Speaker 5: his face and his knuckles were bruised, and he said

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Speaker 5: that it was around the time of the homicides, but

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Speaker 5: he couldn't remember if it was in October or November.

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Speaker 5: And I wanted to know if Brian Colberger was wearing

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Speaker 5: a ballakava, if let's say Maddie because the mixture of

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Speaker 5: DNA under her fingernails. We could talk about this too

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Speaker 5: in the next segment a little bit. Could those have

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Speaker 5: left a scratch mark on his face even though he

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Speaker 5: was wearing a ballakava?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? I think so. It all depends on the malleability

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Speaker 4: of the mask itself. If everybody at home will kind

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Speaker 4: of look at your fingertips just for a second, look

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Speaker 4: down the long axis of your fingers, your fingers, your

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Speaker 4: finger nails are curved. Imagine that your fingernails are plows

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Speaker 4: being pulled by a tractor, Okay, and your plow on

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Speaker 4: a field, it leaves furrows. Same thing happens with a

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Speaker 4: scratch mark. So as you drag these fingernails down a surface,

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Speaker 4: say somebody's neck or somebody's face, you're creating a tiny

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Speaker 4: furrow there. It almost comes across as an abrasion. And

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Speaker 4: what also happens, just like with a plow behind a tractor,

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Speaker 4: is that you know, skin and tissue pought up on

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Speaker 4: those fingernails, just like the dirt does on a plow.

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Speaker 4: And so if you can examine those fingernails, you begin

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Speaker 4: to think about scientifically, can we link this to him,

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Speaker 4: what would be really important to know is what stage

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Speaker 4: of healing those are? Oh yeah, and the exactly couple

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Speaker 4: that were the dates?

434
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, right, Well, one thing to note on that too,

435
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 5: And that same report, his person asked to Coburger about

436
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 5: the scratches and the Bruce knuckles, and he said he

437
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,280
Speaker 5: was in a car accident. So we know he's lying.

438
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 2: Well, right, we know that, and as he has for

439
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:48,120
Speaker 2: a long time before he pled out. Now we're going

440
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 2: back to our coverage of the newly released information it's

441
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 2: just being unsealed in the Idaho student murders case. And

442
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:59,400
Speaker 2: for that we have our favorite forensic expert, Joseph Scott Morgan,

443
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,440
Speaker 2: and we're going to start with the question from you guys,

444
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 2: can we have talk back number nine?

445
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 3: Hi?

446
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:09,440
Speaker 11: My name is Amanda. I'm from Missouri. The biggest thing

447
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:14,119
Speaker 11: that I was wondering about Brian Coleworger and something that

448
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:19,199
Speaker 11: I just couldn't make sense of, is the house was

449
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 11: pretty confusing layout wise, and so I'm wondering how he

450
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,919
Speaker 11: was able to get in and out very quickly and

451
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,160
Speaker 11: just seems to know exactly where he needed to go.

452
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 11: Would you really be able to tell from the outside

453
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,679
Speaker 11: of the house. The layout of it that well, or

454
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 11: maybe it was a combination of perhaps stocking the social

455
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,679
Speaker 11: media is on top of that. It's just something that

456
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 11: I was really curious about.

457
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, that's a really a lot of people

458
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,639
Speaker 5: wonder that because there's a step that goes right in

459
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:53,640
Speaker 5: front of Dylan's door. There's a little step, like, how

460
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 5: did he know there was a step there? You know,

461
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 5: things like that. And these were college kids, you know,

462
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,199
Speaker 5: they were prolific on social media. They made videos of

463
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 5: you know, doing impressions of each other really cute, you know,

464
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 5: and making fun of one another. Inside the home. They

465
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 5: did little dances on TikTok. You know. These were again,

466
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 5: these are college students, so you know, they had Instagram pictures.

467
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 5: There's also websites like Zillo, and you know, this house

468
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 5: was a rental, so the layout of the house is

469
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 5: completely explorable on websites like that, right. So, And additionally,

470
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,120
Speaker 5: you guys, we learned in the documents from Bethany, who

471
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 5: is one of the surviving roommates. She was on the

472
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 5: first floor, she was on the ground level. We learned

473
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 5: that Kaylee had kind of mentioned that she went to

474
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 5: take Murphy out to go potty.

475
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 12: About about a month before the event the murders, she

476
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:47,399
Speaker 12: went to take her dog out to go potty and

477
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 12: there was like a creepy guy kind of spying on them, right,

478
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 12: And you know, it could have been him.

479
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 5: It could have been Brian Koberger looking in and peeping

480
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 5: in and spying on them and learning that way. So

481
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 5: there's any number of ways, right, what do you guys think.

482
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 2: I think you're spot on body with in this particular case,

483
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 2: and actually in most of our cases, most of the

484
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,360
Speaker 2: places we live are available on zillow or if we're

485
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:17,640
Speaker 2: showing on social media, you know, Grandma's ninety fifth birthday

486
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 2: party at your house and you see, you know, you're

487
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 2: walking from the kitchen with the cake and then you see, oh,

488
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 2: you have to walk down three steps to get out

489
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,199
Speaker 2: to the sliding glass door. Right, So really, any of

490
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 2: us could have our information found, yeah that way. And yeah,

491
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,919
Speaker 2: so I'm not sure. I do have one kind of

492
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,360
Speaker 2: burning forensic question. I feel like me, joseaih, let's do it.

493
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 2: I'm a little bit confused by this. In victim Killie

494
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 2: Gonzalvez's case, there was mention of a round object with

495
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 2: stripes in some of the documents that came out. Are

496
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 2: you able to fill us in a little bit about

497
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 2: what that might indicate?

498
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, So for me, if you look at a

499
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 4: k bar knife, k bar knife is in a horizontal plane.

500
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 4: If you have a kbar knife on its tip, okay,

501
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,360
Speaker 4: in the horizontal plane. If you look at the handle,

502
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 4: it has these deep furrowed you can call them stripes,

503
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 4: and it's meant to be able to to, yeah, to

504
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,159
Speaker 4: grip it better. And it's got kind of the it

505
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 4: almost I don't want to say felt, but it's almost

506
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 4: like brushed leather is the way the thing feels. And

507
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 4: these furrows are kind of deep. And it was made

508
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 4: for jungle fighting. The Marines used it all over the

509
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 4: South Pacific during World War Two, so you could grip

510
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:42,120
Speaker 4: if your hands were sweating. And if you're using this

511
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 4: as a bludgeon, and what I mean is you're not

512
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 4: using the blade. You're actually using the end of the knife,

513
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 4: which is round. It's circular, it's about the size of

514
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 4: a quarter. It's got rounded edges. You can pound on

515
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 4: something doing that. You know, Marines have been known to

516
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 4: use this thing a hammer. To give you an idea

517
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 4: of how resilient this thing is. And then if you

518
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 4: use it as almost like you wrap your hand around

519
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 4: the handle, you could get that effect. If part of

520
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 4: the handle is sticking out, you could get these kind

521
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 4: of marks that will look like stripes that would marry

522
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 4: up its classic impression evidence. You know, I don't have

523
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 4: any way to discount it, but I don't necessarily buy

524
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 4: into the idea of two weapons. I think the way

525
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:32,640
Speaker 4: the cave art is constructed, it actually has multiple utility

526
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,719
Speaker 4: for it. That's the why it was created by our military,

527
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 4: so it could be used in all kinds of conditions cutting, hacking, stabbing,

528
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 4: defending building something, or open opening boxes of ammunition with

529
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 4: this thing is really robust and heavy by the way.

530
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 5: Well, and also it stef Gonsalves told us that they

531
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 5: mentioned like around these round impressions, and I was looking

532
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 5: at tactical gloves because you know, I believe he was

533
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 5: wearing tactical gloves. I mean, it would make sense, and

534
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 5: a lot of them have those raised like knuckle plastic,

535
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 5: you know, to protect somebody's knuckles. Maybe something like that

536
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 5: as well as the handle of the knife could have

537
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 5: made those impressions.

538
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 3: I wonder.

539
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, and the trick is And I really wonder if

540
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 4: they did this at autopsy where they were able to

541
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 4: get another k bar. You can get them very easily.

542
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 4: And because we do this in the morgue, actually you

543
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 4: bring in I've been there when they bring a murder

544
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 4: suspected murder weapon into the more, particularly knives, and we'll

545
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 4: take a look at them and take photos and that

546
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 4: sort of thing. And I wonder if that exists out there,

547
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 4: you would do it with scale to give people an

548
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 4: idea as to the size of it.

549
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 5: Wow, well, I mean, don't you think they would have

550
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 5: matched that up or tried to And if they did

551
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 5: what they have told Steve, you know, consolved about this,

552
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 5: like I don't know.

553
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 4: I don't know. He's a pretty bright guy. I got

554
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 4: to tell you. He's drawn a lot of conclusions based

555
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 4: upon the information that he was given. And he is

556
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 4: he's one of my heroes along with it.

557
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, Oh, I'm incredible this takedown she did. If

558
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:17,959
Speaker 5: you guys didn't hear the s takedown, you're gonna need

559
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 5: to go listen. But right now, stay right here on

560
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 5: True Crime tonight. You're listening to us, And I'm body

561
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 5: moved and I'm here with Courtney Armstrong and forensics expert

562
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 5: Joseph Scott Morgan, and we're kind of digging into some

563
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 5: of these Moscow Police Department documents that have been released

564
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 5: and we're going to be talking about some of the forensics.

565
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 5: I wanted to talk about this soil sample if it's okay,

566
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 5: and I hope hopefully this is interesting for other people

567
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 5: as it was for me. So in some of the

568
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 5: documents and it mentions that they took soil samples from

569
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 5: the shovel that was in the back of Brian Coberger's

570
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 5: Hondai Elantra. And then what they did was they took

571
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 5: soil samples from around Moscow all right and surrounding areas, right,

572
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 5: and they sent it off to the line. Well, there

573
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 5: were two reports that came back. One was for the

574
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 5: soil and it did match soil from around that area

575
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 5: and had some sort of like acidic properties that mentioned

576
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 5: it was near water. Okay, So that's one thing. And

577
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 5: then the second thing was a geologist with the FBI

578
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 5: wrote back and said the pollen that is on the

579
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 5: shovel does not match any native species to this area

580
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:29,920
Speaker 5: and listed the trees that it was and one of

581
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 5: them was red maple, I believe, and so I of

582
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 5: course was like, Okay, where's red maple native to? And

583
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 5: it's native to like Indiana eastward right, and I thought

584
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 5: that was really interesting. So is it possible, you guys

585
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,920
Speaker 5: follow me? Okay, is it possible that after the murders

586
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 5: he buried with the shovel, the clothing and whatever kind

587
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 5: of go bag he had or container whatever, you know,

588
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 5: those things that aren't detected by a metal detector. Okay,

589
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 5: buried those, kept the knife, went home, and then on

590
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 5: two days later searched for sheath because he still has

591
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 5: the knife. On the fifteenth, bribes with the knife with

592
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 5: his dad to Indiana, gets pulled over, starts freaking out,

593
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 5: Oh my god, I'm getting pulled over. I just got

594
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 5: pulled over twice and nine minutes I got to get

595
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 5: rid of this knife, and then dumps the knife from

596
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 5: Indiana to Pennsylvania somewhere.

597
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 4: Can I can I ask everybody a question, because.

598
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 5: You're going to ask me why it matters, aren't you?

599
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 4: No, I'm not no, I'm going to This is what

600
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 4: I'm going to ask. Why in the hell does a

601
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:50,239
Speaker 4: PhD student need a shovel that's not well that that

602
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 4: lives in an apartment. Why do you need a shovel?

603
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:58,000
Speaker 4: And that's a good question. I don't understand that because

604
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 4: I keep returning to this. You're living a monastic existence

605
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 4: as a PhD, particularly early on in your career as

606
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 4: a PhD student. I can't imagine he would have time

607
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 4: to go out and I don't know, practice agriculture or

608
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 4: want to go out and plant trees like Johnny appleseed

609
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 4: or something like. It doesn't make sense, It really doesn't.

610
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 5: I don't know. I just thought it was interesting. But

611
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 5: right now we have a talkback talkback eight.

612
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 13: Do we get that one Hi had this from Wisconsin? Again,

613
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 13: that's a question you guys were talking about why DK

614
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 13: might have spared Dylan. Is there a chance and I

615
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 13: admittingly haven't listened to the most recent episode yet, but

616
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 13: is there a chance he thought that maybe she had

617
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 13: heard more and had already awarded the police. Oh yeah,

618
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 13: I thought he had a choice to either get out

619
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 13: and didn't want to take more time, like he maybe

620
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 13: thought the police were.

621
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 10: On their way.

622
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 5: You know what, the simplest answer is probably you know,

623
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 5: and that's probably the simplest answer. Yeah, I think that's

624
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 5: absolutely a possibility.

625
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 2: What do you guys think, Yeah, I think it does

626
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 2: you know, it's conjecture. Obviously none of us are there, No,

627
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 2: But yeah, there's a multitude of reasons that it was

628
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 2: time that BKA, this killer said, okay, I have to

629
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:20,839
Speaker 2: get out of this house. Whether whether he thought one

630
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 2: of the two surviving roommates called nine to one one

631
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 2: or just some internal alarm was saying, you've been here

632
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 2: long enough, I don't know.

633
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 3: Joseph.

634
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that the adrenaline rush had worn off

635
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,319
Speaker 4: by that time, and just to put it this way,

636
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 4: very bluntly, this was like an orgy of violence, and

637
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 4: he was completely spent by this time. I think it's

638
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 4: a combination of that fear kicking in, if this reptile

639
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 4: can feel fear, because just looking at him it seems

640
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 4: as though, you know, he's devoid of that, but survival

641
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 4: maybe where he wants to survive and get out of there.

642
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 4: He spent himself at this point, and now you know,

643
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:05,439
Speaker 4: one more person that he would have to eliminate, could

644
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 4: run the risk of him losing his freedom and potentially

645
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 4: his life. Eventually.

646
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:12,840
Speaker 5: Is a reptile.

647
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 4: He is a reptile.

648
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is well, observed Joseph.

649
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 5: If you want to weigh in and give us a call,

650
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 5: do so at one eight eight eight thirty one Crime

651
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 5: or use the talkbacks on the iHeartRadio app. You know,

652
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 5: we have a really special opportunity to talk to a

653
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 5: forensics expert. And there's all these you know, forensics questions

654
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 5: that we have in this document dump. And you know,

655
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 5: like there's one thing that I've been kind of dying

656
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 5: to ask about. It's these sparks. So, Joseph. In one

657
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 5: of two of the interviews with Bethany, she's the surviving roommate.

658
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 5: She lived on the bottom floor, which by all accounts,

659
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 5: Brian Colberger, the convicted murderer in this case, did not

660
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,839
Speaker 5: go downstairs to that floor by all accounts. But here's

661
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:56,319
Speaker 5: what she says. She says she went to sleep and

662
00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 5: in doing so, she was watching like something on her tablet.

663
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 5: She turned off her tablet, went to sleep, and around

664
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 5: four o'clock, anywhere from four o'clock to four twenty a m.

665
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 5: She saw sparks. She mentioned a sparkler at first in

666
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 5: her first interview. In her second interview she said sparks,

667
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 5: but in both she said it she also heard like

668
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 5: a firecracker go off. So a firecracker and sparks under

669
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 5: her bathroom door or her bedroom door. What do you

670
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:23,359
Speaker 5: guys think that could mean?

671
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 14: Like?

672
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 5: What could it be like a taser? Could it be? Now,

673
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 5: it should be mentioned there were no mentions of any

674
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 5: kind of taser marks from the medical examiner that we

675
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 5: know about. But could a taser do something like that?

676
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 5: Could it be her, you know, Xana opening the door

677
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:39,720
Speaker 5: for door dash? What do you guys think?

678
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, in my experience, a taser doesn't my experience, it

679
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 4: sounds like I've been tased. But in my experience, a

680
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 4: taser doesn't necessarily make a popping sound like a firework.

681
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 4: It'll have more of a crackling sound, Okay, And so yeah,

682
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,839
Speaker 4: for me, it's very confusing and all. So, if let's

683
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 4: just run with this and say that it was a firecracker,

684
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 4: there would be remnant of that everywhere. If that were

685
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,840
Speaker 4: to be discharged right there or set off right there,

686
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 4: you get sharps of paper that go all over the place.

687
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 4: There'd also be gunpowder residue that would be there as well,

688
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 4: or propelling or whatever they call it that they fuel

689
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 4: these things with. And that's a testable thing.

690
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 5: If it was a firecracker, I mean I can't imagine

691
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 5: it actually was, But if it was, would evidence of

692
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,360
Speaker 5: that had been in these document dumps? Would the police

693
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:35,280
Speaker 5: would it have been in some kind of incident report,

694
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 5: a supplemental report that we would have gotten.

695
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 4: Well, what they would do is this in the questioning

696
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:45,799
Speaker 4: when they're questioning her, they will say, you know, the

697
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 4: subject makes comment about this. This was followed up and

698
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 4: we examined the area. We saw no evidence of it.

699
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 4: Because listen, this is a principle in forensics and in

700
00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 4: law enforcement. Negative findings are just as important as positive

701
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 4: find So you have to document even the absence of things.

702
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 4: You're trying to confirm this, And so I would say

703
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 4: it'd be worth their time to go and look at it.

704
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 4: It's right there inside that doorway, that Alco.

705
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 5: Area. Yeah, yeah, it's a small area right there.

706
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 2: For I mean, could it be as simple as a

707
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:25,919
Speaker 2: car peeling out or peeling in, whether it was door

708
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 2: dash or you know, murderer BK and you know the

709
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,279
Speaker 2: flash the headlights flash really quick around a turn to

710
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:37,760
Speaker 2: get there, and a car just you know, that's absent

711
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 2: any other information.

712
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 5: That's my thought. I just under her door. It's really specific,

713
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 5: and she said a sparkler, So she actually saw she

714
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 5: thought were sparks.

715
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, she has. That's very specific information. There's no need

716
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,800
Speaker 4: for her to lie about that. I know there's nothing

717
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 4: in it. So she saw something, and it's important that

718
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,760
Speaker 4: you point out you mentioned it twice in two separate interviews.

719
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:03,320
Speaker 5: That's right.

720
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:14,080
Speaker 2: Right now.

721
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:18,760
Speaker 3: Producer Taha had a question for Joseph. Hello, Joseph.

722
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:20,400
Speaker 15: You know, I have much I love when you're on

723
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:24,840
Speaker 15: the show and dig into the forensics. But mine is

724
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 15: it's kind of a simple question. But now that we

725
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 15: have more information about you knowing everything that they've sort

726
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,840
Speaker 15: of explained, like little things that we're learning, like based

727
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 15: on the stab, wounds or the body placement and everything

728
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 15: else we're discovering, can we get an idea of maybe

729
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 15: Coburger's state of mind, Like was he panicked? Was he

730
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,360
Speaker 15: you know, in control? Was he a frenzy state of mind?

731
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 15: Like do the wounds and things that we're seeing give

732
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 15: you an insight into his state of mind?

733
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 4: Yeah? I think they do, particularly if you know, God

734
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 4: bless her family. If you look at Kaylee, the trauma

735
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,760
Speaker 4: which was inflicted upon her, this is a frenzied event.

736
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 4: You've got clusters apparently multiple stab wounds. The Gonzalveez family

737
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 4: reported at one point time thirty four. The police have

738
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:17,320
Speaker 4: stated twenty anytime in our world, anytime you start to

739
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 4: get over like five, you know that there's some kind

740
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:23,359
Speaker 4: of pathology going on, because that becomes kind of a

741
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:28,359
Speaker 4: frenzied kind of event. And the other trauma that was

742
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 4: inflicted upon her, Yeah, I think that you've got somebody

743
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 4: that has dealing with serious rage, perhaps wants to be

744
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 4: in control and doesn't appreciate being interrupted at all, and

745
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 4: that was you know, it was acted out in real

746
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 4: time there.

747
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 5: I want to kind of add on to Joseph's expert

748
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,719
Speaker 5: opinion with my layman stuff too. And I read all

749
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:55,760
Speaker 5: these documents in document number thirty two if that matters

750
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 5: to you, and if you want to know, it's when

751
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 5: the police are visiting the Spokanet Medical Examiner's office. And

752
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 5: this is a very very sensitive document, so trigger warning

753
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:09,240
Speaker 5: before you go into it. But the doctor doctor s

754
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:12,280
Speaker 5: said that the weapon used was not serrated, single edged,

755
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 5: very sharp and said a lot of force was used

756
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 5: by the suspect. That's a quote directly from that document,

757
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 5: he's using a lot of force and she can tell

758
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 5: this from those wounds to right. So he and it's

759
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 5: again to Joseph's point, you know, there was over twenty

760
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:35,359
Speaker 5: wounds with Kylee, poor k Lee at or at least

761
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 5: thirty let's say, right, if we take the middle of

762
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 5: what the consolvests are saying and the medical examiner or

763
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 5: the police, i'd say, and then poor Xana over fifty.

764
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 5: And these were very deep, forceful injuries. So in my opinion,

765
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 5: and I'm a layman, I'm nobody, but in my opinion,

766
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 5: he was filled with rage.

767
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree, And it's an asymmetrical attack where he's

768
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 4: in a dominant position, particularly with the young ladies upstairs.

769
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 4: He is over them. And so when you start to

770
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 4: talk about force and just kind of driving going down,

771
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 4: it's demonstrated. I think in the injuries that you have.

772
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 4: I think that that's a bit that we can read

773
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,759
Speaker 4: into it, again qualifying that saying we don't have all

774
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 4: of the information. But in this asymmetry that's going on here,

775
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:29,320
Speaker 4: you have this force that's going down with a very heavy, heavy,

776
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 4: robust blade and an individual that is so freaking out

777
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:38,319
Speaker 4: of his mind with rage for whatever reason, and he

778
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 4: is hammering these poor poor kids.

779
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 3: I have a question, Joseph.

780
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 2: So this is very heavot in the case of if

781
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,360
Speaker 2: you were a pure layman, So, for example, do you

782
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:54,879
Speaker 2: need to practice with a weapon like this. I don't

783
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 2: know if, oh, that's a thing, because I feel I

784
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 2: don't know. I'm by nature and I'm just curious if

785
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:05,839
Speaker 2: in general people practice.

786
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:10,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's an excellent question. And here's another little insight

787
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:12,879
Speaker 4: here that we did pick up on. You guys had

788
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:17,879
Speaker 4: mentioned single edged and nonserrated. Here's another little tidbit here

789
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:23,360
Speaker 4: that they added sharp, very sharp. My wife, Kim, bought

790
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:25,319
Speaker 4: me one of these knives because I was doing all

791
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 4: these appearances and right out of the box I could

792
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 4: shave a hair on the back of my hand with

793
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:34,960
Speaker 4: this thing. It's so right out of the box. It

794
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:38,239
Speaker 4: doesn't have to be stoned at all. And so with

795
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 4: that said, it's very very it's very task oriented. It's made,

796
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:45,799
Speaker 4: it did what it's made to do.

797
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 5: I just had an eureka moment. In the documents, the

798
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 5: court documents prior to all this other release, we learned

799
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:55,879
Speaker 5: that Brian Koberger when he bought the when he bought

800
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 5: the k bar knife on Amazon. He also purchased a

801
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:02,240
Speaker 5: sharpener right well. The knife was from the wound inspection.

802
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 5: The medical examiner said the knife was very sharp. Could

803
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 5: the sparks have been a knife sharpener?

804
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 4: I don't know. I mean I suppose so, but let

805
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 4: me go back just for.

806
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 5: Sorry, okay, because a Eureka moment, I was like, oh

807
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 5: my god, wait a minute.

808
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:20,400
Speaker 4: No relative what Courtney said with practicing, generally, if you

809
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:23,279
Speaker 4: practice with a knife, you dull the knife. And so

810
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 4: they're saying sharp knife. But he did buy a sharpener,

811
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 4: according to what I would say, So if he if

812
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:34,360
Speaker 4: he stoned the knife, you know, prior to going going

813
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:38,840
Speaker 4: out that night, and he had been practicing, Yeah, perhaps,

814
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 4: But the scene is so very sharp that they made

815
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:44,799
Speaker 4: note of it. I hate to say this, but I'll

816
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:47,360
Speaker 4: go ahead and go down this road. It's not just

817
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 4: soft tissue that this instrument is traveling through. We have

818
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 4: bony structures, and they do dull a knife, but the

819
00:44:55,920 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 4: scene is so robust and so well made that it's

820
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:03,320
Speaker 4: going to take a lot more than that to merely

821
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:05,880
Speaker 4: dull it. If we found I promise you, if we

822
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:08,799
Speaker 4: found that weapon, if they found that weapon, it's still

823
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 4: had an edge on it.

824
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 5: Would it really Yes?

825
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 4: I think that it probably would. Yeah.

826
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 5: Wow, you're listening to True Crime Tonight, where we talk

827
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 5: true crime all the time. I'm Boddy Moven and I'm

828
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 5: here with Courtney Armstrong and forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan.

829
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:25,360
Speaker 5: And right now we're unpacking all the forensic evidence in

830
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 5: the Moscow Police Department document dump. But if you want to,

831
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:31,359
Speaker 5: if you want to weigh in, give us a call

832
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 5: at eighty eight thirty one Crime or leave us a

833
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 5: talk back on the iHeartRadio app. But right now we're

834
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:38,640
Speaker 5: going to do a quick shift. Courtney, you have an

835
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 5: update in Barry Morphu's case. What do you have I do?

836
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 2: And this is a case we're going to be covering

837
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 2: in a real We're going to do deep dive next week.

838
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:54,400
Speaker 2: So Susanne Morphew, you may remember this poor woman disappeared

839
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 2: on Mother's Day of twenty twenty and she was on

840
00:45:57,080 --> 00:46:01,760
Speaker 2: a bike ride allegedly near her home in Colorado. Quickly,

841
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 2: suspicion went to her husband, Barry Morphew, who was charged

842
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:07,359
Speaker 2: one year later.

843
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 5: In twenty twenty.

844
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:14,359
Speaker 2: One, charges were dropped due to prosecuteutorial misconduct. But now

845
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 2: it's back on It seems like the case is back

846
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:21,360
Speaker 2: on in case back on track rather so the update

847
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 2: is that unknown male DNA was found in Suzanne morphuz

848
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:30,360
Speaker 2: vehicle with partial twenty twenty one CODUS matches to unsolved

849
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 2: sexual assaults and it is being speculated as a potential

850
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:39,360
Speaker 2: defense in Barry Morpheu's upcoming trial. And Joseph, does this

851
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 2: fall under your area of expertise with the partial codis matching.

852
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I think that it does include exclude you

853
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 4: begin to think about the biological remnant that is left behind.

854
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:57,720
Speaker 4: And if you want me to answer the broader question,

855
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:01,759
Speaker 4: is this going to be brought up? Yeah? Yeah, And

856
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 4: I ain't no defense attorney, but if I were, I

857
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:10,919
Speaker 4: think in considering considering what he's facing now at this point, yeah,

858
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 4: I guarantee you I throw this against the wall to

859
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:17,719
Speaker 4: see if it sticks, because it might resonate with any

860
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:21,279
Speaker 4: potential jurors here. Just that kind of specter in the

861
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:24,279
Speaker 4: background is going to create reasonable doubt. I mean, and

862
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,440
Speaker 4: these are this is not some kind of passive This

863
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:29,839
Speaker 4: is not some kind of passive finding. You're talking about

864
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 4: something that's linked to an actual sex crime, and we

865
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 4: have this woman who has been assaulted. There's no evidence,

866
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:37,800
Speaker 4: at least that I have heard that there was a

867
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:42,319
Speaker 4: sexual assault involved, but I always go in with any

868
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:46,240
Speaker 4: case involving a female where female has been the victim

869
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:48,799
Speaker 4: of a homicide, I'm assuming that there's probably some kind

870
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:52,439
Speaker 4: of underpinning of sexual tension there on some level. That's

871
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 4: why I think that all those cases need rape kids

872
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 4: done because you need to have them. But in her case,

873
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 4: of course that's not possible. But hossibility of this if

874
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:05,840
Speaker 4: you can interject us into or injected into the courtroom.

875
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 4: Uh yeah, I think that this is this is significance.

876
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:11,799
Speaker 4: And I've heard about this for some time. I'm going

877
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 4: to be fascinated to see what they come up with.

878
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 4: Who just links back to and how did it wind

879
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:21,600
Speaker 4: up in her glovebox. I think that that's a fascinating

880
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:25,240
Speaker 4: bit of data there too. Wow.

881
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:27,839
Speaker 2: Okay, so we'll really be diving deep into this. I

882
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 2: never expected that.

883
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:30,960
Speaker 5: I'm I'm going to be really I never expected this

884
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 5: in this that in this case, I never expected anything

885
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:34,279
Speaker 5: like this.

886
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 3: No, not at all.

887
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 2: And body, did you have a quick update on another

888
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:43,160
Speaker 2: case we will be getting into next week, which.

889
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 3: One our dentists.

890
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 5: Oh, the dopey dentist. Yeah, I don't know if I have.

891
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 2: I don't know.

892
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 5: I have a little bit. So Oh, no, I you do,

893
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 5: I do. I'm so sorry. I do have an update.

894
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 5: So the witness has continued to testify all of last

895
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:00,439
Speaker 5: week in the murder trial of Colorado dentist. We're calling

896
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 5: him the dopey dentist, by the way, James Craig. On Friday,

897
00:49:04,120 --> 00:49:06,759
Speaker 5: the lead investigator his name or her name, I'm sorry,

898
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 5: is Detective Bobby Olsen, testified to the video footage of

899
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 5: Craig in the process of what could be him mixing

900
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:15,799
Speaker 5: the poison to kill his wife. So right now he

901
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 5: stands accused of fatally poising his wife, Angela forty three,

902
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 5: the beautiful mother of his six children, with cyanide and

903
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 5: tetra hydrausolene, which is like the substance that's found in

904
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 5: eye droppers via her protein shakes, in order to pursue

905
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 5: a new romantic life. The defense is challenging the warrant

906
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 5: scope on digital evidence and aiming to discredit forensic and

907
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:40,720
Speaker 5: toxicology findings, as well as casting doubt on Angela's character

908
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 5: and suggesting she may have been suicidal. So remember he

909
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 5: was saying that, you know, she was despondent and she

910
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:51,440
Speaker 5: was moody, and you know she was suicidal. And he

911
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 5: tried to get his daughter to create this deep fake

912
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:57,880
Speaker 5: video of her saying that she was suicidal. You know,

913
00:49:57,920 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 5: it was just all kinds of crazy. So we're going

914
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 5: to be die being into the dope dentist. Let's not

915
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:04,920
Speaker 5: call him by his name. It's the dope dentist who

916
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 5: tried to kill his beautiful wife, the mother of his

917
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:07,600
Speaker 5: six children.

918
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so Joseph, we have less than a minute left,

919
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:16,840
Speaker 2: but very quickly, what do you think of actual video

920
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 2: footage of someone, yeah, going into trial?

921
00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 3: How much of us? How high up is I think.

922
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 4: That a defensivetorneyal ripped at the shreds. I had a flashback.

923
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:29,399
Speaker 4: I'll try to make it quick. The sixth Sense where

924
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:31,920
Speaker 4: the little girl was being poisoned by her mother, if

925
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:34,759
Speaker 4: you remember that scene in that movie. But it didn't

926
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:38,120
Speaker 4: spoil it for anybody. But you can't say definitively that

927
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:41,120
Speaker 4: that is a poisonous agent going in there, and they'll

928
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:43,799
Speaker 4: say that it had to be analyzed and that sort

929
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:47,399
Speaker 4: of thing. But if it's allowed in court, I think

930
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:50,360
Speaker 4: that that'll be very intriguing because the jury's going to

931
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:50,680
Speaker 4: see it.

932
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:54,359
Speaker 5: Okay, we have a talk back, can we hear ty?

933
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:54,800
Speaker 16: Ladies?

934
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:55,760
Speaker 8: This is Jess.

935
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 7: I'm from Pennsylvania and I actually attended the Sales Universe,

936
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 7: which is the school that BK attended and studied under

937
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:09,879
Speaker 7: doctor Kathlin Ramsland, who we have come to find out

938
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 7: that he was obsessed with. And my question is you

939
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:19,840
Speaker 7: mentioned that the BTK killer killed four family members during

940
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:25,600
Speaker 7: his first kill. Do you think that BKA killed four

941
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:30,000
Speaker 7: people during his first kill as some kind of weird

942
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 7: homage to BTK?

943
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:34,360
Speaker 5: Thanks, good question.

944
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:36,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you so much for that talkback.

945
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:41,040
Speaker 2: It's really insightful and it's interesting because we have kind

946
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 2: of brought that up and there are a lot there

947
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 2: is a lot.

948
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:44,719
Speaker 3: Of connective tissue.

949
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:49,800
Speaker 2: Stephanie Leidecker and I we had interviewed criminologist Scott Bond,

950
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 2: really brilliant guy, and we.

951
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:54,560
Speaker 3: Talked a lot about BTK. He's a serial killer.

952
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:59,920
Speaker 2: BTK stands for bind Porture Kill and it's a leg

953
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:03,560
Speaker 2: that on his first outing he murdered a family of four.

954
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 2: The answers, that's right. It bought it exactly, and it's

955
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:13,240
Speaker 2: a real anomaly because generally with it's just an anomaly

956
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 2: usually if it's your first one out. So maybe question mark.

957
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:22,600
Speaker 2: I actually still wonder if BKA even knew exactly precisely

958
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:24,799
Speaker 2: who was in the house and where they were and

959
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 2: what he was going. So I don't know is the answer,

960
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:29,879
Speaker 2: but it's an interesting question. What do you guys think?

961
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:32,239
Speaker 5: I think, I listen, I'm not going to give him

962
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:35,680
Speaker 5: any credit. I think comparing him to BTK at this

963
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:40,879
Speaker 5: point is, you know, a compliment in some way for him, right,

964
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:43,279
Speaker 5: not for us, obviously K with a monster, but for

965
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:45,680
Speaker 5: him it's a compliment. Right, for him, it's a compliment.

966
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:49,560
Speaker 5: I think he is a clumsy, bumbling fool who went

967
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:52,040
Speaker 5: in there for one thing and one thing only, and

968
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:55,400
Speaker 5: that was for one specific person, and he ran into

969
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:58,799
Speaker 5: people along the way because he's such a fool and

970
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 5: clumsy and an idiot, and he this was this was

971
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:04,280
Speaker 5: just a stumbling reaction.

972
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:07,919
Speaker 4: Can I say one thing about about the I think

973
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:12,440
Speaker 4: it was that the family. I can't remember that o

974
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:18,400
Speaker 4: Taro's de feo was Ambivau. Yeah, so Taro's did you

975
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 4: know that? In his allocution in btk's allocution. He actually

976
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 4: makes a statement in that allocution where he says, I

977
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 4: made mistakes in the first one and he's reliving this

978
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:32,719
Speaker 4: in his mind. If no one's watched this, it's one

979
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:35,200
Speaker 4: of the most chilling things. It's on YouTube. The full

980
00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 4: allocution is and he gives very detailed and this is

981
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:42,799
Speaker 4: several decades before he's still read living this, and he

982
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:46,440
Speaker 4: actually missed in that allocution that portion of it that

983
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 4: he made mistakes along the way, that he would have

984
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:53,720
Speaker 4: done things differently and not like taking a better path

985
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:57,359
Speaker 4: in life, I mean like to perpetrate that crime. I

986
00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:02,279
Speaker 4: was fascinated about that. I don't know if there's there maybe, yeah,

987
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 4: it could be. And this is something that doctor Ramslan

988
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 4: aided BTK in writing his memoir.

989
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:13,920
Speaker 5: Right, And a lot of people say that, you know,

990
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:17,799
Speaker 5: there's kind of this connective tissue between BTK and Bundy, right,

991
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 5: like I'm almost like a hodgepodge of characteristics. But at

992
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 5: this point I just feel like that's a compliment to

993
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 5: him in some weird, gross way, and it makes me ill.

994
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:31,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, it just makes me.

995
00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:34,520
Speaker 2: Well, listen, we really appreciate thank you calling in. And

996
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 2: actually we have another one guys, if you can give

997
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:38,640
Speaker 2: us talk back five please.

998
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 17: Great, Hey, y'all, I'll have the case and I would

999
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:44,120
Speaker 17: love for you guys to cover. It was the first

1000
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:47,720
Speaker 17: one I ever truly remember. I was young, maybe twelve,

1001
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:51,160
Speaker 17: which were back to shape her her stalking and murder.

1002
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:54,400
Speaker 17: She was going my sister Sam and I will believe

1003
00:54:54,880 --> 00:55:00,040
Speaker 17: it set stalking gloss in California. Thanks for event. I

1004
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:01,279
Speaker 17: had a great night.

1005
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:04,040
Speaker 5: Oh I don't know this one.

1006
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:05,680
Speaker 3: Thank you for that, Joseph Am.

1007
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:08,360
Speaker 2: I right that you are quite familiar with the Rebecca

1008
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 2: Schaeffer case.

1009
00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:14,120
Speaker 4: I wouldn't go that deep with it. And familiar with it. Yes,

1010
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:18,319
Speaker 4: lovely young actress living in an apartment complex out in

1011
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:21,640
Speaker 4: LA and this guy I think his last name's Bardow

1012
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:26,880
Speaker 4: had become obsessed with her and literally found and he

1013
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:30,359
Speaker 4: had Oh I know, I remember this now. He had

1014
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:35,959
Speaker 4: hired he had retained the services of a private investigator

1015
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:39,520
Speaker 4: to track her down, which the private investigator did and

1016
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:44,040
Speaker 4: provided the address her address. He was obsessed with or

1017
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:48,279
Speaker 4: showed up at the house and killed her, shot her,

1018
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:51,879
Speaker 4: shot her dead in Oh my god. And interesting little

1019
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:56,440
Speaker 4: side note with this case, you're familiar with Marsha Clark. Yeah,

1020
00:55:57,239 --> 00:56:00,920
Speaker 4: prosecuted that case and he's really serving life you have

1021
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:03,200
Speaker 4: in penitentiary in California.

1022
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:05,279
Speaker 5: Yeah, I wonder what the rules are for that, like

1023
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:07,480
Speaker 5: a price you said in private investigator just turned all

1024
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:09,520
Speaker 5: over all this info. But this was back in like

1025
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:11,800
Speaker 5: what nineteen eighty nine or something eighty nine.

1026
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:15,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know there's new rules for that, you know.

1027
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:18,600
Speaker 4: I don't know. I don't know about the governance of that.

1028
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:21,319
Speaker 4: But you know, if you retain them and ask them

1029
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:22,919
Speaker 4: to do this, they're going to do it. I don't

1030
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:25,359
Speaker 4: know if they say why, But listen, if.

1031
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:28,120
Speaker 5: You're a private investigator, give us a call, let us know, like, yeah,

1032
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:30,239
Speaker 5: can you tell me? Can I just go into a

1033
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:32,680
Speaker 5: private investigator's office and say, give me all the information

1034
00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:35,640
Speaker 5: you can on Joseph Scott Morgan, Like, I don't know.

1035
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:37,880
Speaker 5: I just think that's goof, that's kind of icky.

1036
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:39,720
Speaker 4: You just sent a chill up my spahn.

1037
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:43,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't do, not want body after you that,

1038
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:49,000
Speaker 2: But listen, Thank you very much for that talk back,

1039
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:52,760
Speaker 2: and we will absolutely cover that case because I'm reminded

1040
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:55,480
Speaker 2: in a really vague way, and it's an important one,

1041
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:57,520
Speaker 2: and I do think you're right that there are some

1042
00:56:57,719 --> 00:57:02,719
Speaker 2: laws that were enacted because of him. So give us

1043
00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:05,360
Speaker 2: a call if you have any other questions, particularly forensic

1044
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:08,320
Speaker 2: ones for our expert, Joseph Scott Morgan. I'm Courtney Armstrong

1045
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 2: here with Body Moven. This is true Crime tonight and

1046
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:15,440
Speaker 2: we are now finally going to get to a case

1047
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:17,520
Speaker 2: about an Alabama man.

1048
00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:21,000
Speaker 5: Body. Can you lay out the basics please? Yeah. So,

1049
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 5: this one's brought to us by Joseph an Alabama, Alabama,

1050
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:28,600
Speaker 5: Alabama man who's been connected to eighteen different homicides is

1051
00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:33,040
Speaker 5: contributing to reshaping conceptions of what a serial killer may

1052
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:35,919
Speaker 5: look like in the twenty first century. This is really really,

1053
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:40,040
Speaker 5: really interesting, you guys. Damian McDaniel, he's twenty two, has

1054
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:44,360
Speaker 5: been charged with eighteen murders and thirty injuries over the

1055
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:49,240
Speaker 5: course of fourteen months, potentially making him Alabama's most prolific

1056
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:51,680
Speaker 5: known killer if he's convicted.

1057
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:52,240
Speaker 17: Wow.

1058
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 5: Yeah right. So he's accused of two mass shootings in

1059
00:57:56,680 --> 00:58:00,560
Speaker 5: Birmingham in twenty twenty four. One was at Trentson Lounge

1060
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:03,440
Speaker 5: in July of twenty twenty four and the other was

1061
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:07,600
Speaker 5: that Hush Lounge Hush Lounge in September. His trial date

1062
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:10,360
Speaker 5: has been set for April sixth, twenty twenty six, so

1063
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:13,080
Speaker 5: like what eight months or so, and we'll focus on

1064
00:58:13,160 --> 00:58:17,040
Speaker 5: the trendsetter shooting the first one in July. He allegedly

1065
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:21,720
Speaker 5: served as the primary enforcer of violence and homicides for

1066
00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:26,560
Speaker 5: Birmingham Area drug Traffic Organization, so he's not directly charged

1067
00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:30,600
Speaker 5: in this federal drug conspiracy case that implicates its leaders.

1068
00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:33,400
Speaker 5: So is he like a hlpman Joseph.

1069
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:37,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that it is. I was actually thinking

1070
00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:39,000
Speaker 4: back to I don't know if you guys have heard

1071
00:58:39,040 --> 00:58:42,560
Speaker 4: of the movie The Iceman is based Iceman, Yeah, it's

1072
00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:46,920
Speaker 4: based on the true story of kok Klinsky and he

1073
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:48,880
Speaker 4: killed you know, he claims that he kills up to

1074
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:51,320
Speaker 4: two hundred people right died in prison, and he was

1075
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:54,360
Speaker 4: a mob enforcer. But you know, I got to tell

1076
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:58,800
Speaker 4: you guys, this this case, I'm very disappointed the media

1077
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:05,040
Speaker 4: in this case because this this case in particular, involves

1078
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:10,200
Speaker 4: an African American perpetrator and all of these victims, most

1079
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:12,320
Speaker 4: of them, to the best of my knowledge, are African

1080
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:16,480
Speaker 4: American and it just kind of it didn't get out

1081
00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:18,680
Speaker 4: of the state of Alabama. The only way I found

1082
00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:21,240
Speaker 4: out about it, I was at my work. I work

1083
00:59:21,280 --> 00:59:24,640
Speaker 4: at Jacksonville State University as a college professor, and I

1084
00:59:24,680 --> 00:59:27,560
Speaker 4: had a young reporter that called me from you know

1085
00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:32,320
Speaker 4: one of the you know, one of the three letter networks. No,

1086
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:37,919
Speaker 4: not like CBSNBC. Hey, have you heard about this case?

1087
00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:40,720
Speaker 4: We'd like to come interview you. How It's like, I

1088
00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:43,840
Speaker 4: haven't heard of this And when she drops this number

1089
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:47,760
Speaker 4: on me, it could have knocked me over with a feather.

1090
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:50,360
Speaker 4: And you know the thing about it is, this is

1091
00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:54,400
Speaker 4: this is the interesting thing. He had previously, as a

1092
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:59,920
Speaker 4: seventeen year old, been arrested and charged into a ten

1093
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:03,680
Speaker 4: murders and he was I think he received some kind

1094
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:07,240
Speaker 4: of sentence like for seventeen months or something, and they

1095
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:10,320
Speaker 4: suspended thirteen months of it. Cutting back on the street

1096
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:15,520
Speaker 4: and dig this before the mass shooting happens, he allegedly

1097
01:00:16,240 --> 01:00:21,440
Speaker 4: walked in to a fire station in Birmingham and shot

1098
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:29,120
Speaker 4: two firefighters. Now listen, look, nobody should be shot, but firefighters.

1099
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:31,080
Speaker 4: You're going to walk in and you know what they

1100
01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:35,520
Speaker 4: would do these guys. This is how just gut wretching

1101
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:38,440
Speaker 4: this thing is. These guys left the doors open to

1102
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:41,120
Speaker 4: the bay of the everybody drives by fire station. They

1103
01:00:41,240 --> 01:00:44,360
Speaker 4: left the bay doors open so that the elderly people

1104
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:47,439
Speaker 4: could come by and get their sugar checked and their

1105
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:50,280
Speaker 4: blood pressure checking. These guys were just hanging out. You know,

1106
01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:52,840
Speaker 4: these guys do nothing but clean and roll hoses and

1107
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:55,200
Speaker 4: do all this stuff. And then they go save people's

1108
01:00:55,240 --> 01:00:57,880
Speaker 4: lives and you walk in, you shoot them. He kills

1109
01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:02,280
Speaker 4: one seriously, injures the other. And after this, you know,

1110
01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:05,960
Speaker 4: all hell breaks loose. Now there appears to be other

1111
01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:09,360
Speaker 4: people that he is associated with in this case.

1112
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:13,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, and the firefighters. It's mentioned that that that's where

1113
01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:16,160
Speaker 5: the crime spree began and it was a murder for

1114
01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:21,280
Speaker 5: hire for killing a firefighter. Jordan Melton is, so this

1115
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:23,800
Speaker 5: was somebody put a hit out on a fireman.

1116
01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:26,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't. And that's why, like I'm going to

1117
01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:31,160
Speaker 4: be glued. It's very interesting, glued to whatever comes out

1118
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:33,560
Speaker 4: of this case to find out what the motivation is

1119
01:01:34,120 --> 01:01:37,560
Speaker 4: for well, for all of these killings, but this thing

1120
01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:40,880
Speaker 4: kind of set it off. When I was working in

1121
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:44,360
Speaker 4: New Orleans, we had a guy that's crazy name. He

1122
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:47,360
Speaker 4: went by the street name of Meatball, I remember this,

1123
01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:51,200
Speaker 4: and he went around killing people and it was murder

1124
01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:54,760
Speaker 4: for hire. Back during that period of time. But it's

1125
01:01:55,080 --> 01:01:58,960
Speaker 4: this is why this is so interesting and tragic, I know,

1126
01:01:59,120 --> 01:02:02,560
Speaker 4: but interesting just from an academic standpoint. You've got a

1127
01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:07,760
Speaker 4: combination of a guide that is not just a mass

1128
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:12,480
Speaker 4: murderer allegedly, right, but also he has serialized this as well.

1129
01:02:12,520 --> 01:02:16,800
Speaker 4: That's a very unique combination in the world of crimp science.

1130
01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:20,200
Speaker 5: I wonder if it's not like considered serial or they're

1131
01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:24,880
Speaker 5: not talking about a serial killer because it is for hire,

1132
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:27,720
Speaker 5: it's not like a desire, or maybe it's both. Maybe

1133
01:02:27,760 --> 01:02:30,240
Speaker 5: this guy does have a desire and the bonus is

1134
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:32,280
Speaker 5: he gets paid for it. Well, we don't know, right.

1135
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:35,840
Speaker 2: Well, listen, we're going to continue this topic after the

1136
01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:39,360
Speaker 2: break as well as a debrief on everything we've been

1137
01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:43,680
Speaker 2: talking about, and we will be hearing from you. Do

1138
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:46,920
Speaker 2: not forget to call us eighty eight three to one crime,

1139
01:02:47,120 --> 01:02:49,920
Speaker 2: keep it here true crime tonight. We're talking true crime

1140
01:02:50,200 --> 01:03:12,360
Speaker 2: all the time. So getting back into it, Joseph, you

1141
01:03:12,480 --> 01:03:16,800
Speaker 2: had brought to our attention case about an Alabama man.

1142
01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:21,280
Speaker 2: He's been connected to eighteen different homicides and is actually

1143
01:03:21,320 --> 01:03:26,520
Speaker 2: contributing to reshaping conceptions of what a serial killer might

1144
01:03:26,600 --> 01:03:30,840
Speaker 2: look like. His name is Damien McDaniel. He is twenty

1145
01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:34,440
Speaker 2: two years old. So what do people need to know

1146
01:03:34,480 --> 01:03:35,200
Speaker 2: about this case?

1147
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:39,240
Speaker 4: Joseph, I think the most profound thing is that the

1148
01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:44,760
Speaker 4: reputation that Birmingham has gotten as being this uber violent place.

1149
01:03:45,520 --> 01:03:47,800
Speaker 4: And yeah, I mean there's a level of violence there,

1150
01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:51,479
Speaker 4: but just imagine, over that fourteen month period, you've got

1151
01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:55,880
Speaker 4: one individual along with some of his associates that actually

1152
01:03:55,920 --> 01:04:01,000
Speaker 4: account for a statistics if you're taking US statistics class,

1153
01:04:01,200 --> 01:04:06,000
Speaker 4: this would be identified as a statistically significant number that

1154
01:04:06,080 --> 01:04:08,960
Speaker 4: are laid at his feet right now, and that's blown

1155
01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:12,080
Speaker 4: these numbers through the roof for that particular year, you know,

1156
01:04:12,160 --> 01:04:16,480
Speaker 4: and just taking on the scope of that is amazing.

1157
01:04:16,760 --> 01:04:19,840
Speaker 4: And the fact that you've got a medium size to

1158
01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:23,400
Speaker 4: major city. Everybody he's heard of Birmingham in the US,

1159
01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:27,680
Speaker 4: and the national media hasn't taken up on this or

1160
01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:30,880
Speaker 4: picked up on it, because you look that the media

1161
01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:33,040
Speaker 4: can be a driver for many things, and one of

1162
01:04:33,040 --> 01:04:36,640
Speaker 4: the unfortunate drivers that they become is a driver of fear.

1163
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:42,280
Speaker 4: And that's what's really tragic about it. And I'm partial,

1164
01:04:42,320 --> 01:04:45,120
Speaker 4: I love Birmingham, thinks a cool place, but you know,

1165
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:49,600
Speaker 4: you have this guy that's running around, he's killed one firefighter.

1166
01:04:49,680 --> 01:04:53,760
Speaker 4: He actually shot another guy that this is before the

1167
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:57,960
Speaker 4: trendsetter line lounge, shooting a guy that was a UPS

1168
01:04:58,040 --> 01:05:01,480
Speaker 4: driver that was checking out or that was clocking out.

1169
01:05:01,520 --> 01:05:04,360
Speaker 4: Can you imagine you're clocking out of or and some

1170
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:08,440
Speaker 4: guys shoots you, And yeah, maybe it is financially motivated,

1171
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:12,160
Speaker 4: but you do have you do have a perpetrator here

1172
01:05:12,240 --> 01:05:15,120
Speaker 4: who has the mindset that life doesn't have a lot

1173
01:05:15,160 --> 01:05:15,960
Speaker 4: of value to it.

1174
01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:20,200
Speaker 5: Well, and his victims weren't all contract killings, Like he

1175
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:25,480
Speaker 5: killed his ex girlfriend Mia Nicholson and that was like

1176
01:05:25,480 --> 01:05:28,640
Speaker 5: a personal thing. So like he's got like this mixture

1177
01:05:29,200 --> 01:05:32,600
Speaker 5: of contract killings and personal motives right now. I don't

1178
01:05:32,600 --> 01:05:34,160
Speaker 5: know if you actually kill her or shoot here. I'm

1179
01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:37,240
Speaker 5: not sure, So please forgive me if I misspoken those victims.

1180
01:05:37,880 --> 01:05:41,440
Speaker 4: No, I think. Can I just address this idea of

1181
01:05:41,520 --> 01:05:44,960
Speaker 4: going to the club and shooting this is not like

1182
01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:49,640
Speaker 4: he's going to a club and walking into a crowd

1183
01:05:49,680 --> 01:05:52,560
Speaker 4: on the dance floor and shooting one specific person. No,

1184
01:05:52,680 --> 01:05:55,760
Speaker 4: this guy's lighting this place up. You imagined how terrifying

1185
01:05:55,800 --> 01:05:58,680
Speaker 4: that would be. And you know one of the clubs

1186
01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:02,760
Speaker 4: is illegally operated. It's you know, kind of a dance

1187
01:06:02,800 --> 01:06:05,800
Speaker 4: hall gathering place. They don't have a liquor license. The

1188
01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:09,360
Speaker 4: other club that he shot up, which also had multiple victims,

1189
01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:13,440
Speaker 4: and you don't people always think about the people that

1190
01:06:13,520 --> 01:06:17,280
Speaker 4: have died, And while that is tragic, it certainly is.

1191
01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:19,120
Speaker 4: You've got a lot of people that have sus saint

1192
01:06:19,240 --> 01:06:22,840
Speaker 4: serious injuries, injuries they're going to change the course of

1193
01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:24,600
Speaker 4: their entire lives. You might have people that are in

1194
01:06:24,600 --> 01:06:27,400
Speaker 4: wheelchairs as a result of this, right and the fact

1195
01:06:27,440 --> 01:06:31,920
Speaker 4: that it hasn't gotten the notoriety that others might. And

1196
01:06:31,960 --> 01:06:34,360
Speaker 4: it's going to be interesting to see how the prosecutor's

1197
01:06:34,360 --> 01:06:38,040
Speaker 4: office puts this case together, how they kind of frame it,

1198
01:06:38,160 --> 01:06:41,400
Speaker 4: and maybe what kind of psychology are we dealing with here.

1199
01:06:42,160 --> 01:06:45,959
Speaker 5: Wow, he's only twenty two, that's it for so. First

1200
01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:49,320
Speaker 5: of all, he's an African American male, which is different,

1201
01:06:49,640 --> 01:06:52,800
Speaker 5: right than a serial killer when you know, think of

1202
01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:53,840
Speaker 5: a profile that's.

1203
01:06:53,720 --> 01:06:55,920
Speaker 3: Given statistically, it's veryistically.

1204
01:06:55,640 --> 01:06:58,400
Speaker 5: Right, it's very different. And he's only he's very young.

1205
01:06:59,480 --> 01:07:03,480
Speaker 5: He is very young to be this prolific, right, Yeah.

1206
01:07:03,600 --> 01:07:05,600
Speaker 4: Very young. And I'm not saying that there haven't been

1207
01:07:05,720 --> 01:07:09,200
Speaker 4: young serial killers, ye of course, sure, but you know,

1208
01:07:09,280 --> 01:07:12,800
Speaker 4: he's on the young end of the scale and to

1209
01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:15,800
Speaker 4: get to the point where you can devalue life. I

1210
01:07:15,840 --> 01:07:19,080
Speaker 4: think probably to that point at that young age, and

1211
01:07:19,080 --> 01:07:21,400
Speaker 4: that you're kind of numb to it. I think it's

1212
01:07:21,560 --> 01:07:27,280
Speaker 4: another fascinating aspect to this. It certainly begs study, I think,

1213
01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:30,040
Speaker 4: on a great degree, because you have to begin to

1214
01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:34,360
Speaker 4: try to understand what drives somebody like this, particularly with

1215
01:07:34,600 --> 01:07:39,440
Speaker 4: so many people laid laded his feet, literally laded his

1216
01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:40,600
Speaker 4: feet at this point in time.

1217
01:07:41,240 --> 01:07:43,800
Speaker 5: Wow, Well, I mean we're going to be I kind

1218
01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:46,920
Speaker 5: of want to follow this one moving forward, if that's okay,

1219
01:07:47,040 --> 01:07:49,600
Speaker 5: like with everybody listening. I think it's really interesting. It's

1220
01:07:49,600 --> 01:07:51,760
Speaker 5: an anomaly. I think it's something that we should be

1221
01:07:51,800 --> 01:07:54,200
Speaker 5: talking about. Keep it right here on True Crime Tonight,

1222
01:07:54,240 --> 01:07:56,520
Speaker 5: where we're talking true crime all the time. I'm body

1223
01:07:56,560 --> 01:07:59,880
Speaker 5: moving and I'm here with with Courtney Armstrong and just

1224
01:08:00,080 --> 01:08:03,240
Speaker 5: Scott Morgan, and we were just talking about this Alabama

1225
01:08:03,320 --> 01:08:05,200
Speaker 5: serial killer. But now we're going to kind of switch

1226
01:08:05,240 --> 01:08:07,880
Speaker 5: a little bit and go to some talkback Roulette. We've

1227
01:08:07,920 --> 01:08:11,000
Speaker 5: been enjoying talkback Roulett quite a bit. Go ahead, and

1228
01:08:11,080 --> 01:08:12,560
Speaker 5: let's let's let's hear a talkback.

1229
01:08:12,960 --> 01:08:15,840
Speaker 16: Hi, my name's Joanna. I live in North Carolina, and

1230
01:08:16,160 --> 01:08:19,519
Speaker 16: those first compliments to Katie's studios. I've watched or listened

1231
01:08:19,560 --> 01:08:24,400
Speaker 16: to the Whole Pie tamess her series and the Idaho

1232
01:08:24,479 --> 01:08:28,120
Speaker 16: Massacre series, and I just have learned so much and

1233
01:08:28,320 --> 01:08:33,640
Speaker 16: appreciate your professionalism and your thoroughness in every aspect of

1234
01:08:33,680 --> 01:08:35,920
Speaker 16: both of these cases. I just wanted to make a

1235
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:40,080
Speaker 16: quick comment that I think giving Brian Coberger their moniker

1236
01:08:40,080 --> 01:08:44,720
Speaker 16: a BK actually gives him more notoriety. And that's just

1237
01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:47,160
Speaker 16: my opinion. I'm like, all of a sudden, he has

1238
01:08:47,280 --> 01:08:50,759
Speaker 16: like a nickname that'll stick, that'll almost in some ways

1239
01:08:50,880 --> 01:08:53,640
Speaker 16: make him more famous. That's the only comment I have

1240
01:08:53,800 --> 01:08:56,280
Speaker 16: other than doing a great job and thank you for

1241
01:08:57,000 --> 01:08:58,840
Speaker 16: all that you do for those of us in the

1242
01:08:58,840 --> 01:09:02,160
Speaker 16: public who want to know more. Thank you guys, so nice.

1243
01:09:02,920 --> 01:09:05,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you very much. This is Courtney. I'm so

1244
01:09:05,720 --> 01:09:09,479
Speaker 2: I'm so happy you learned something from the podcast. And also,

1245
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:12,519
Speaker 2: I know we said talk back, yes, but this was

1246
01:09:12,640 --> 01:09:16,840
Speaker 2: a voicemail. So as we said, you can call eighty

1247
01:09:16,840 --> 01:09:20,240
Speaker 2: to a three to one prime anytime it's convenient to

1248
01:09:20,240 --> 01:09:21,880
Speaker 2: you if you happen to be listening to us on

1249
01:09:21,920 --> 01:09:25,080
Speaker 2: the podcast and have a question, Cal and you are

1250
01:09:25,080 --> 01:09:29,320
Speaker 2: on the show, and I really hear what you said

1251
01:09:29,360 --> 01:09:33,679
Speaker 2: about giving him a nickname. We have batt this around

1252
01:09:33,760 --> 01:09:38,080
Speaker 2: a bunch of times. We also do use the full

1253
01:09:38,160 --> 01:09:41,360
Speaker 2: name of this killer, Brian Kolberger, in order for people

1254
01:09:41,400 --> 01:09:44,160
Speaker 2: to understand what we're talking about, and then we try

1255
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:46,559
Speaker 2: and use BK. And that's because some of the victims'

1256
01:09:47,360 --> 01:09:52,040
Speaker 2: family members had suggested. So it's a line we're tying

1257
01:09:52,080 --> 01:09:54,440
Speaker 2: a toe. But we really appreciate your feedback.

1258
01:09:55,080 --> 01:09:57,879
Speaker 5: Definitely. I've been trying to refer to him as inmate

1259
01:09:58,240 --> 01:10:01,599
Speaker 5: one six' three two one, four but you, know for

1260
01:10:01,640 --> 01:10:03,720
Speaker 5: the purposes of the, show if somebody's just churning on the,

1261
01:10:03,800 --> 01:10:05,880
Speaker 5: radio they're not going to know what we're talking. About

1262
01:10:05,960 --> 01:10:08,640
Speaker 5: so it's, been it's. Been it's a really fine line to.

1263
01:10:08,680 --> 01:10:12,679
Speaker 5: Walk AND i don't really know which you know way

1264
01:10:12,720 --> 01:10:15,200
Speaker 5: to go, here BUT i like inmate one sixty three

1265
01:10:15,400 --> 01:10:16,080
Speaker 5: two one Five.

1266
01:10:17,160 --> 01:10:19,840
Speaker 4: Amen from the amen corner. HERE i love. THAT i

1267
01:10:19,840 --> 01:10:23,080
Speaker 4: think that's a great idea because you, know we it's

1268
01:10:23,080 --> 01:10:26,960
Speaker 4: so easy for us And i'm guilty as charged. Here,

1269
01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:32,160
Speaker 4: yeah that's our default position to use the, nickname and uh,

1270
01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:34,840
Speaker 4: yeah wouldn't it be cool if we could just use

1271
01:10:34,880 --> 01:10:38,880
Speaker 4: a numerical asignation for, HIM i think that'd be, beautiful.

1272
01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:42,880
Speaker 5: Removes his identity. Completely, unfortunately not everybody knows you, know the, story,

1273
01:10:43,000 --> 01:10:46,439
Speaker 5: Right so for the show, purposes it's, hard but we

1274
01:10:46,439 --> 01:10:48,800
Speaker 5: we would love to strip his identity from. Him but

1275
01:10:49,200 --> 01:10:52,600
Speaker 5: on the positive, side, too B k isn't really so

1276
01:10:52,720 --> 01:10:55,720
Speaker 5: much a. Nickname it sounds a little too close to B.

1277
01:10:55,800 --> 01:10:59,040
Speaker 5: TK i completely get, it but it's just his. Initials

1278
01:10:59,280 --> 01:11:02,000
Speaker 5: it's not LIKE A it's not like, this you, know

1279
01:11:02,120 --> 01:11:05,679
Speaker 5: savvy nickname that he's been. Given, right it's just. Plant it's,

1280
01:11:05,720 --> 01:11:10,040
Speaker 5: bland it's, BORING BK F. Bk all, right that's ALL

1281
01:11:10,040 --> 01:11:15,120
Speaker 5: i gotta. Say body say. That so do we want

1282
01:11:15,120 --> 01:11:17,519
Speaker 5: to go to another? One? Yeah all, right let's do.

1283
01:11:17,560 --> 01:11:18,320
Speaker 5: It can we get another talk?

1284
01:11:18,360 --> 01:11:22,439
Speaker 14: Back, hi, ladies this Is lori From colorado and thanks

1285
01:11:22,439 --> 01:11:25,599
Speaker 14: for breaking things down for. Us i've finished up listening

1286
01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:29,840
Speaker 14: to the update from the twenty fourth and one THING

1287
01:11:30,040 --> 01:11:34,400
Speaker 14: i am wondering about WITH dk not saying anything is

1288
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:38,760
Speaker 14: outside of his psychopathy is if it's a some sort

1289
01:11:38,760 --> 01:11:41,160
Speaker 14: of a power and control. Thing SO i know people

1290
01:11:41,160 --> 01:11:44,000
Speaker 14: want to know this, information BUT i am not going

1291
01:11:44,040 --> 01:11:46,160
Speaker 14: to give it to them BECAUSE i am in control

1292
01:11:46,320 --> 01:11:50,400
Speaker 14: of the situation, still meaning like some. Degree so, anyway

1293
01:11:50,640 --> 01:11:54,519
Speaker 14: just a, thought all, right, Thanks, yeah good.

1294
01:11:54,520 --> 01:11:57,479
Speaker 5: INSIGHT i THINK i, think you know a lot of

1295
01:11:57,479 --> 01:11:59,960
Speaker 5: people think. That you, know it's it's clear to see

1296
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:05,320
Speaker 5: when Watching Brian coberger get dressed down By Olivia gonsalvus

1297
01:12:05,439 --> 01:12:09,800
Speaker 5: right during the sentencing hearings her victim impact. Statement by the,

1298
01:12:09,840 --> 01:12:14,200
Speaker 5: way if you haven't seen, it master class in. Takedown,

1299
01:12:14,479 --> 01:12:15,400
Speaker 5: right it's.

1300
01:12:15,240 --> 01:12:19,160
Speaker 2: Really the most powerful person SPEAKING i may have ever

1301
01:12:19,200 --> 01:12:22,400
Speaker 2: seen in my. Life AND i know that sounds really,

1302
01:12:22,520 --> 01:12:27,640
Speaker 2: hyperbolic BUT i absolutely mean. It what she did for

1303
01:12:27,840 --> 01:12:33,640
Speaker 2: her sister was. Unbelievable, yes, SORRY i got sa know.

1304
01:12:33,760 --> 01:12:37,519
Speaker 5: IT i completely. Agree but you can See Brian coberger

1305
01:12:37,600 --> 01:12:41,080
Speaker 5: kind of, squirming, right he's kind Of it's really one

1306
01:12:41,120 --> 01:12:43,960
Speaker 5: of the only reactions THAT i noticed him, having other

1307
01:12:44,040 --> 01:12:48,679
Speaker 5: than When maddie's stepfather was speaking and you, know talking

1308
01:12:48,680 --> 01:12:51,280
Speaker 5: about just what a wonderful light in his life that

1309
01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:55,519
Speaker 5: she Was Madison, mogan his, stepdaughter whom he loved dearly

1310
01:12:55,800 --> 01:12:59,240
Speaker 5: and she loved him. Too But olivia took a different.

1311
01:12:59,280 --> 01:13:03,479
Speaker 5: Approach you, know everybody had been talking, about you, know

1312
01:13:03,479 --> 01:13:06,760
Speaker 5: how wonderful the victims, were But olivia's approach, was, No

1313
01:13:06,840 --> 01:13:10,559
Speaker 5: i'm going to be talking to, him you, know the, inmate,

1314
01:13:10,920 --> 01:13:14,800
Speaker 5: right And i'm going to be telling him how meaningless he.

1315
01:13:14,880 --> 01:13:17,519
Speaker 5: Is and it was just it was such a good.

1316
01:13:17,520 --> 01:13:19,599
Speaker 5: Takedown but my point in bringing all that up, Was,

1317
01:13:20,320 --> 01:13:22,479
Speaker 5: yeah you can see how out of control he is

1318
01:13:22,520 --> 01:13:24,799
Speaker 5: in that, moment and you can see his jaw clenching

1319
01:13:24,800 --> 01:13:28,040
Speaker 5: and his eyes kind of, twittering and AND i think

1320
01:13:28,080 --> 01:13:31,400
Speaker 5: he loves being in. CONTROL i think that will wear

1321
01:13:31,520 --> 01:13:34,760
Speaker 5: off over. TIME i think that he's going to be

1322
01:13:34,800 --> 01:13:37,200
Speaker 5: forgotten and people aren't going to be talking about, him

1323
01:13:37,200 --> 01:13:39,519
Speaker 5: and he's going to want to speak let it. Be, so,

1324
01:13:40,680 --> 01:13:42,320
Speaker 5: yeah we really appreciate that talk.

1325
01:13:42,360 --> 01:13:46,479
Speaker 2: Back and my answer to you is probably exactly what you, said,

1326
01:13:46,640 --> 01:13:49,639
Speaker 2: Right Joseph Scott, morgan what's your?

1327
01:13:49,680 --> 01:13:53,320
Speaker 4: THOUGHTS i think that he wants to control the, conversation and,

1328
01:13:53,360 --> 01:13:55,920
Speaker 4: hell he wants to do it on his. Terms that

1329
01:13:56,000 --> 01:14:00,280
Speaker 4: didn't really understand the judges order relative to any kind

1330
01:14:00,280 --> 01:14:04,320
Speaker 4: of contact or what the you know, what what's prohibited.

1331
01:14:04,400 --> 01:14:10,400
Speaker 4: THERE i think my, biggest my biggest concern is that

1332
01:14:10,439 --> 01:14:13,160
Speaker 4: there's going to be academics that are going to come

1333
01:14:13,200 --> 01:14:16,559
Speaker 4: calling and that information is going to leach, out you,

1334
01:14:16,600 --> 01:14:18,760
Speaker 4: know from their, papers and they'll do it under the

1335
01:14:18,800 --> 01:14:23,040
Speaker 4: guise of being academically inclined and wanting to study this

1336
01:14:23,120 --> 01:14:27,680
Speaker 4: guy for whatever benefit there is out. There and you

1337
01:14:27,720 --> 01:14:30,479
Speaker 4: know that because he sees himself as an. ACADEMIC i

1338
01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:33,680
Speaker 4: think it would surprise me one, bit y'all if he

1339
01:14:34,320 --> 01:14:39,799
Speaker 4: if some institution allowed him to finish that. PhD, well we're.

1340
01:14:39,680 --> 01:14:41,640
Speaker 2: Going to find out, how you, know maybe sooner than.

1341
01:14:41,720 --> 01:14:44,719
Speaker 2: Later and right now we Have gina on the. Line, Hello.

1342
01:14:44,800 --> 01:14:48,320
Speaker 9: Gina, Hi i'm calling from a small little town Called, Arcadia,

1343
01:14:48,360 --> 01:14:52,000
Speaker 9: florida AND i just stumbled across you, Guys But i'm

1344
01:14:52,000 --> 01:14:53,000
Speaker 9: going to listen to you guys.

1345
01:14:53,040 --> 01:14:53,360
Speaker 5: Forever.

1346
01:14:53,439 --> 01:14:56,040
Speaker 3: Now OH i love it a Great thank, you.

1347
01:14:56,080 --> 01:14:58,439
Speaker 9: Sir, Okay now to the, POINT i know you spoke

1348
01:14:58,439 --> 01:15:02,280
Speaker 9: about What olivia said to be but he's a, psychopath right,

1349
01:15:02,400 --> 01:15:05,880
Speaker 9: Right so did the insult that she said to, him

1350
01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:08,880
Speaker 9: did they really do they affect? Him or does he

1351
01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:11,479
Speaker 9: just have like a mental, Barrier like will he be

1352
01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:14,400
Speaker 9: reading the court records and like cursing her for twenty

1353
01:15:14,479 --> 01:15:16,640
Speaker 9: years or how does how did that really affect him

1354
01:15:16,640 --> 01:15:16,800
Speaker 9: as a.

1355
01:15:16,800 --> 01:15:19,360
Speaker 5: Psychopath that's such a good, Question, Gina thank you so

1356
01:15:19,439 --> 01:15:23,040
Speaker 5: much for the, Call, Gina, yes thank. You but, listen

1357
01:15:23,120 --> 01:15:26,240
Speaker 5: last NIGHT i sat AND i Watched Brian. COBERGER i

1358
01:15:26,320 --> 01:15:29,559
Speaker 5: zoomed in on him while he While olivia was dressing him.

1359
01:15:29,600 --> 01:15:33,479
Speaker 5: Down olivia gonsalves the victim impact, statement AND i swear To,

1360
01:15:33,520 --> 01:15:36,640
Speaker 5: god do. It it is. Incredible you can see his

1361
01:15:36,960 --> 01:15:40,720
Speaker 5: jaw clenched and his. Eyes this is so, creepy you.

1362
01:15:40,720 --> 01:15:44,000
Speaker 5: Guys his eyes are. Twittering IF i didn't know any,

1363
01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:46,200
Speaker 5: BETTER i would think he was having a silent seizure

1364
01:15:46,200 --> 01:15:49,639
Speaker 5: of some. Kind his eyes are twittering back and. Forth

1365
01:15:49,640 --> 01:15:52,040
Speaker 5: and NOW i don't know what that medically means or

1366
01:15:52,040 --> 01:15:55,680
Speaker 5: what that. Is but a beautiful. Woman olivia is. Gorgeous,

1367
01:15:55,960 --> 01:16:00,880
Speaker 5: okay she is beautiful and. Smart EVERYTHING i Think Brian coberger.

1368
01:16:01,120 --> 01:16:05,479
Speaker 5: Hates olivia is everything he, hates and for her to

1369
01:16:05,600 --> 01:16:08,200
Speaker 5: dress him down that, WAY i think that overrides his

1370
01:16:08,240 --> 01:16:10,960
Speaker 5: psychopathy AND i think he was. Affected that's just my.

1371
01:16:11,000 --> 01:16:13,200
Speaker 5: OPINION i actually concur with.

1372
01:16:13,320 --> 01:16:16,519
Speaker 2: That AND i also even on first watch when it

1373
01:16:16,560 --> 01:16:19,360
Speaker 2: was happening, LIVE i as well was focused on his

1374
01:16:19,439 --> 01:16:23,400
Speaker 2: face and, noticed, listen this guy gave nothing during all

1375
01:16:23,439 --> 01:16:25,599
Speaker 2: of the impact statements or the sentence. SING i felt

1376
01:16:25,600 --> 01:16:29,679
Speaker 2: Like this was one moment of, something AND i Think

1377
01:16:29,760 --> 01:16:36,720
Speaker 2: olivia did even through whatever mental whatever is doing in

1378
01:16:36,760 --> 01:16:39,920
Speaker 2: his brain by mentioning stuff, that you, know are you

1379
01:16:39,960 --> 01:16:40,519
Speaker 2: plucking your?

1380
01:16:40,560 --> 01:16:41,120
Speaker 5: Eyebrows?

1381
01:16:41,200 --> 01:16:42,040
Speaker 3: Now are you doing?

1382
01:16:42,080 --> 01:16:43,720
Speaker 5: It you, know just stuff that.

1383
01:16:43,640 --> 01:16:50,679
Speaker 3: Would really mocking. Him yeah, Here Joseph any thought On, yeah.

1384
01:16:50,600 --> 01:16:52,880
Speaker 4: YEAH i mean she was literally you, know we've talked

1385
01:16:52,920 --> 01:16:55,320
Speaker 4: about knives to not she was twisting the knife and m,

1386
01:16:55,479 --> 01:16:56,639
Speaker 4: hmm that's WHAT i. Think.

1387
01:16:56,880 --> 01:16:57,880
Speaker 3: OH i love that she.

1388
01:16:57,960 --> 01:17:00,600
Speaker 4: KNEW i think that she consulted with. SOMEBODY i do.

1389
01:17:00,640 --> 01:17:04,400
Speaker 4: TOO i, mean what to say to him to press

1390
01:17:04,560 --> 01:17:05,040
Speaker 4: and let's not.

1391
01:17:05,080 --> 01:17:08,040
Speaker 5: SAY i mean she's she was brilliant and so credit

1392
01:17:08,080 --> 01:17:10,919
Speaker 5: what credit is, due right? SHE i love that. Analogy

1393
01:17:11,040 --> 01:17:14,680
Speaker 5: she twisted that, knife she gave him his. COMMENTS i

1394
01:17:15,400 --> 01:17:18,440
Speaker 5: absolutely agree with, that AND i think he absolutely detests

1395
01:17:18,479 --> 01:17:20,760
Speaker 5: her for. IT i absolutely. DO i think she got to.

1396
01:17:20,800 --> 01:17:22,920
Speaker 5: HIM i think she's the only one that probably.

1397
01:17:22,960 --> 01:17:25,639
Speaker 2: COULD i think what she S, yeah and that's SOMETHING

1398
01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:30,760
Speaker 2: i REALLY i really hope he assuming it did penetrate

1399
01:17:31,280 --> 01:17:36,040
Speaker 2: that it really does humiliate and her reckoning of you are,

1400
01:17:36,160 --> 01:17:37,200
Speaker 2: nothing you are so?

1401
01:17:38,400 --> 01:17:43,200
Speaker 5: Basic, Right he's, Powerful, right it. Was, Joseph thank you

1402
01:17:43,240 --> 01:17:45,000
Speaker 5: so much for joining. Us what do you have coming?

1403
01:17:45,080 --> 01:17:46,000
Speaker 5: Up anything? Exciting?

1404
01:17:46,520 --> 01:17:49,320
Speaker 4: Oh, yeah, Yeah i've had had a couple of great opportunities.

1405
01:17:49,360 --> 01:17:52,680
Speaker 4: Recently first, off we're still working on Body bags With

1406
01:17:52,840 --> 01:17:58,320
Speaker 4: Katie studios to become the television show Body who exciting

1407
01:17:58,960 --> 01:18:02,040
Speaker 4: and uh edition of that me and my Partner. Dave

1408
01:18:02,160 --> 01:18:05,040
Speaker 4: we're cranking out three episodes per. Week we're platformed on

1409
01:18:05,080 --> 01:18:08,559
Speaker 4: The iHeart as. Well please please check us Out, Tuesday

1410
01:18:08,600 --> 01:18:13,120
Speaker 4: wednesdays And thursdays new episodes. Drop And i've recently been

1411
01:18:13,160 --> 01:18:15,599
Speaker 4: on The Julian. DORY i saw that it was so

1412
01:18:15,680 --> 01:18:18,200
Speaker 4: good podcast on. YouTube please check that out and Check

1413
01:18:18,280 --> 01:18:21,920
Speaker 4: julian's got a lot of really, interesting interesting guests And

1414
01:18:21,960 --> 01:18:25,400
Speaker 4: i'm privileged to be one of. Them and in addition to,

1415
01:18:25,439 --> 01:18:28,959
Speaker 4: That i've got an invite coming up With Danny jones

1416
01:18:29,000 --> 01:18:32,920
Speaker 4: podcast and very excited about, that and that's coming up

1417
01:18:32,960 --> 01:18:33,320
Speaker 4: in a few.

1418
01:18:33,360 --> 01:18:37,400
Speaker 2: Weeks, joseph we are so flattered you are able to

1419
01:18:37,520 --> 01:18:39,880
Speaker 2: come and make time with all of everything you are

1420
01:18:40,040 --> 01:18:41,320
Speaker 2: doing to join using with.

1421
01:18:41,360 --> 01:18:41,439
Speaker 5: You.

1422
01:18:41,479 --> 01:18:47,200
Speaker 2: Guys i'm Tonight katie family is a. Fact so listen,

1423
01:18:47,520 --> 01:18:52,320
Speaker 2: everyone stay, safe be, well and we are back tomorrow.

1424
01:18:52,520 --> 01:18:53,920
Speaker 5: Night good, night