WEBVTT - Behind the Insurrections - Mussolini's March on Rome: The First Fascist Insurrection 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:12.319 What's overthrowing my democratically elected state. I'm Robert Evans. This 0:00:12.440 --> 0:00:15.240 is Behind the Bastards, a podcast about the worst people 0:00:15.360 --> 0:00:18.560 in all of history. And we are, of course recording 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:21.520 in the immediate wake of what I think can fairly 0:00:21.560 --> 0:00:27.360 be called an insurrection by fascist dominated right wing militants um. 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:29.960 And in the immediate wake of that, I sat down 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:34.760 with my producer Sophie. Sophie say, hi, Now, not literally 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:37.800 sit down together because of the plague, but we we 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:40.559 got on a text chat and I was like, you know, 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:44.360 this fascist insurrection against the democratically elected government has a 0:00:44.400 --> 0:00:48.440 lot of similarities with other fascist insurrections against democratically elected governments. 0:00:48.680 --> 0:00:51.480 Perhaps we should talk about the history of fascist insurrections 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:54.880 against democratically elected governments in order to better prepare people 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:56.480 for what needs to be done in the wake of 0:00:56.520 --> 0:00:59.400 this to stop them from succeeding the next time. And 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:01.760 of course, once we had that idea, the only person 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:05.119 we could possibly bring on was our good friend Jason Petty, 0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:08.440 a k A PROP. What what the LICKU read? What's 0:01:08.480 --> 0:01:13.039 up with that failed nation state? How y'all feeling like? Literally? 0:01:14.360 --> 0:01:16.200 I think I text PROP and I was like, hey, 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:20.240 I want to do this, and like it was like, yes, yeah, 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:25.680 no brainer. It's like they're so like you know, Robert myself, 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:28.839 anybody else who has like a seventh grade level understanding 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:32.160 of history has been like kind of flaring their arms 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:36.279 like the crazy scientists in every movie. That's like, y'all, 0:01:36.280 --> 0:01:39.880 the aliens are coming. Guys, I don't understand how come 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:42.880 nobody is seeing us telling y'all, we're standing on our 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:46.160 heads yelling at you like this is point for point, 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:53.280 like bar for bar, point for point. We've seen this before, 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:58.120 and I don't understand what you don't understand. Yeah, how 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:03.280 did this? Because I've been warning about this for quite 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:07.680 a while and uh that it could happen here, and 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:11.400 people continuously are like, I can't believe you predicted this, 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:15.359 and it's like nobody predicted this. Everyone who was paying 0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:18.160 attention was like, oh, this is obviously going to happen 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:21.560 because thousands of people are promising to do this. Yes, 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:24.639 it's like the dog. My favorite one, my favorite meme 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:29.120 going around was one with Ron Burgundy. He was like, wow, 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:36.000 that estalated slowly over the past ten years, like yeah, 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:38.560 I know, I can't believe these people did exactly what 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:41.360 they said they was gonna do. This is crazy, Yeah, 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:46.160 it's it's very frustrating. Um. And so you know, the 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:49.320 reason we decided to do the special mini series Behind 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:54.320 the Insurrections is that I think historically that's what this 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:58.920 is called. That you're listening to the insurrection, Yeah, you 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:00.680 and I did a similar thing last year when the 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:03.040 uprising against the police started, where we kind of talked 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:04.560 about the history of the police, and I thought that 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:07.120 was useful to inform people both the context of why 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:09.640 folks were angry for a lot of folks who maybe 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:11.799 had never really thought that much about the police and 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:15.160 didn't understand all the hatred. UM. And I also thought 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:18.280 it was useful because understanding, you know, the history of 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:21.760 something that you want to fight, is useful in fighting it. Um, 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:25.440 whether it's the police state or a fascist insurrection. And 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:28.959 understanding what other fascists have done throughout history and where 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:31.840 they've succeeded and failed, and how the people opposing those 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:35.560 fascists have succeeded or failed is important both for us 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:37.600 to know what's coming next and to avoid making the 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:40.320 same mistakes that other people made in the past that 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:43.160 led to them being ruled by fascists, which I'd like 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:50.640 to avoid. So naturally we're gonna start with Rome, right yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:54.240 we're we're gonna be starting with my old friend Benito, 0:03:54.520 --> 0:04:02.880 m Um big Benny as no one has any move 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:07.960 Yeah yeah. The thing that I like, I mean, we're 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:12.520 gonna get into this, but like off jump the in 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:17.080 in my hopes to like, you know, help people figure 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:21.799 out ways in roads too, you know, their family members 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:24.440 who have been cooked by this, Like fascist movement is 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:29.680 like is dig inside of you and understand what it 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:35.800 feels like to be disenfranchised and what it feels like 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:41.240 to feel like you've been left behind by those that 0:04:41.279 --> 0:04:43.400 are supposed to take care of you. And if you 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:48.599 can understand that, you know, coupled with a person having 0:04:49.080 --> 0:04:53.520 really non powerful antennas to know that they're being fed bullshit, 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:56.839 you know what I'm saying. Um, then I feel like 0:04:57.800 --> 0:05:00.240 you're you're like you're you're starting to get on. There's 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:02.719 manual asked to like how to not let yourself and 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:07.320 you trying to stop a fascist regime not incensing and 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:13.640 creating martyrs out of them and confirming their feelings that uh, 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:15.760 you know, Airby against them. You know what I'm saying. 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:18.279 It's just it's a matter of like getting behind that 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:21.760 and being like, Okay, if this election was stolen, that 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:24.919 would suck. You're right, that would suck if that was true. 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:30.800 It's yeah, not though it's not. Yeah, it's not, it's not. 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:34.200 It's like, yeah, I mean, if a bunch of Satan 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:37.960 worshiping pedophile wizards were eating all of our children, that 0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:41.240 would be a problem. We should fight that. But that's 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:44.960 not happening. It's just not true. Bro. Yeah, the real 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:47.960 pedophiles in power are more like the guy you think 0:05:48.040 --> 0:05:54.520 is the second Coming. Um. But yeah, yeah, so let's 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:58.960 let's let's talk about old old Benito Mussolini. Um moves. 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:02.080 I started thinking about Benito as I was watching live 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:06.080 stream footage of people breaking through the capital barricades and 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:09.760 into offices with zip ties and weapons. Um. And I 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:12.200 know that while this was happening, in the immediate wake 0:06:12.240 --> 0:06:15.560 of it, a lot of people started bringing up historical comparisons, 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:18.240 and unfortunately, I think a ton of those historic comparisons 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:20.440 were bad. We're the wrong ones. To make a good 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:22.560 example of this would be a ton of people who 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:25.400 compared the events of the sixth to Krystal knocked the 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:29.039 Night of Broken Glass. UM, and I think everyone here 0:06:29.040 --> 0:06:32.400 knows what that is. For those that don't listening, it 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:37.799 was a pegram, which is a racial amass, racial assault 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:40.760 like on members of a specific race basically, UM, that 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:44.760 was instituted by the Nazi government against Jewish people in Germany. 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:47.920 Hundreds of synagogues and Jewish owned businesses were burnt down 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:49.960 on the space of a night. UM. Hundreds of people 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:53.080 were killed. Um. And it was a nationwide racial attack 0:06:53.279 --> 0:06:57.760 carried out at the government's behest right. UM, that's not 0:06:57.800 --> 0:07:01.400 what we saw on the set. It's not this. Yeah 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:04.200 and yeah, probably the most prominent person to make that 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:07.200 comparison was our current governor or former governor of California 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:11.360 and current Arnold Schwartzenegger. Arnold Schwarzenegger UM, whose video otherwise 0:07:11.400 --> 0:07:13.640 had some really good stuff in it about Yeah, I 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:15.160 was gonna say, I kind of dig it in the 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:17.240 sense of, like the way he was talking about the 0:07:17.280 --> 0:07:20.200 remorse of people that was a part of it. I 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:23.120 think if he was gonna pull the Austria card like 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:26.600 it would have been a better although miss Leny's a 0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:30.520 better parallel. But yeah, when UM when they burned the 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:35.160 parliament right before. Yeah, that's a more better comparison, you 0:07:35.200 --> 0:07:41.440 know what I'm saying. Then? Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, has a 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:44.240 great TikTok content. He's got like a pet donkey that 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:49.240 follows him around. I'm sure he does. I do. He's 0:07:49.280 --> 0:07:52.080 definitely like the like the meme of like, you know, 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:55.880 when it's heartbreaking that the worst person you know, it's 0:07:55.880 --> 0:08:00.240 an excellent point, makes a really good point. Yeah, great point, bro, 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:02.880 And I think his best point was just like how 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:06.120 you know the victims of fascism continued long after the war, 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:09.200 including the children of Nazis who you know were abused 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:12.200 by parents and stuff. Great point to make, wrong about 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:16.120 Christal Knoch. We we're talking about actually good historic comparisons 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:18.280 and valuable ones to what happened on the sixth in 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:20.280 d C. There are a few. One of them, as 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:22.520 you noted, was the burning of the Austrian Parliament, which 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:24.400 I think we're going to talk about a bit later 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:28.520 in this series. Um. But and other folks have kind 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:31.040 of much more aptly I think, compared what happened in 0:08:31.080 --> 0:08:33.680 the sixth to uh the Munich beer Hall push, which 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:36.240 was Adolf Hitler's first attempt to seize power, and there's 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:38.680 a lot of good reasons to compare that to the sixth. 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:41.120 It's not really a perfect comparison. None of them are 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:44.400 um in part because when Hitler tried to overthrow the 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:47.280 government starting in Munich, he was a political rabble rouser 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:50.040 with no power who was trying to spark a mass revolution. 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:53.240 And on January six it was like tens of thousands 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:55.920 of the president's fans, including a lot of police officers, 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:58.920 active duty soldiers, and elected leaders, who tried to take 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:01.600 over the capital. It's a bit different. So if we're 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:05.079 looking for a better historic parallel to January six, I 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:08.040 think we might be better served by going back a 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:11.360 year before the nineteen Beer Hall putch, when a completely 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:14.600 different fascist, Benito Mussolini lad what came to be known 0:09:14.640 --> 0:09:18.120 as the March on rome Um. A lot of really 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:20.720 good comparisons to what's happened, a lot of good lessons 0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:24.480 in the March of rome Um. So most people, good 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:29.240 before you start is just if you could. It's you 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:31.040 never really want to like reach into the past and 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:34.960 draw like direct lines, if you will, but if you 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:38.280 could think to yourself just as a general grid, if 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:41.920 in the story. You own the side of Mussolini, you 0:09:42.000 --> 0:09:44.280 probably own the wrong side of history. I think we 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:47.880 can say that completely. So now as you continue think 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:52.920 about your position in this and you that might be 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:55.040 able to tell you which side of history you should 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:57.520 be all right now anyway going and if you're if 0:09:57.559 --> 0:09:59.760 you're rightfully on the side of history that's like, well, 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:01.720 I don't want to stand with Mussolini, which I think 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:04.280 the vast I think the vast majority of people listening 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:06.760 to this are already there. I think one of the 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:09.800 things this teaches is why the people who didn't want 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:13.200 Mussolini to wind up and charge failed, you know, and 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:17.720 and it's important to know that as well. Right, Um, So, 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:21.920 most people are probably broadly familiar of Benito Mussolini, but 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:23.840 because of how history went down, he tends to be 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:27.360 remembered mostly as like Hitler's ridiculous and kind of sad sidekick, 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:31.600 like the least threatening dictator on the axis side. Um, 0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:34.560 Mussolini doesn't wind up as like the frightening villain in 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:38.360 a lot of movies, right, you know, Yeah, that's good. 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:40.240 I ever thought of it like that, but yeah, yeah, 0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:42.720 because it's like you're just like, oh, you. Oh yeah, 0:10:42.760 --> 0:10:46.360 you Hitler light unless you was in unless you was 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:49.719 in it, unless you was in Italy. Yeah, I mean 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:51.240 even then Italy would have been it would have been 0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:53.440 better to be, you know, a Jewish person in Italy 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:56.080 than in Germany. Not a high bar, you know, the 0:10:56.160 --> 0:11:02.400 lowest bar in history, actually minimal. Yeah, but yes, he 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:04.440 he gets this kind of reputation of just being like 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:08.080 incompetent and the junior partner to Hitler and not very frightening. 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:12.720 And that really misses a lot of the history and 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:15.160 what what people at the time when Mussolini rose to 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:19.200 power thought, because Hitler actually in some ways idolized Mussolini 0:11:19.400 --> 0:11:22.600 UM and he patterned his career off of Mussolini's career. 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:26.200 The Munich Beer Hall Putsch was inspired directly by the 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:31.400 March on Rome. Mussolini was not just the first um 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:34.840 like Mussolini was the first fascist dictator. He was the 0:11:34.920 --> 0:11:40.560 man who created fascism as a political ideology that actually 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:43.679 took power. Right. We talked about Gabrielle de Nunzio, who 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:45.640 kind of invented a lot of the ideas that became 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:49.199 fascism as a and who was a contemporary of Mussolini's. 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:54.320 But Mussolini is the guy who made fascism work for 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:55.960 the first time. And when I say work, I mean 0:11:56.000 --> 0:12:00.800 actually seized power, not that is a good government or anything. Um. 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:03.360 He was the first fascist who seized power from a 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:07.520 functional democracy. So he's he is not an incompetent buffoon 0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:10.679 and you kind of you it behooves you to understand 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:13.839 how he succeeded in the way that he did. Um. 0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:15.760 We're gonna do a full set episodes on his life 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:17.839 at some point on Behind the Bastards, but since we're 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:19.720 just focused on the March on Rome today, I'm gonna 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:22.280 give a little cliffs notes of Benito's life prior to 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:27.439 him coming to power. So Benito aml car Andrea Mussolini, 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:30.960 which is quite a name. That is a mafia boss 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:34.200 right there, except for the Andrea, right, except for that Andrea. 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:39.280 When he got baptizes Christening, they gave him Andrea. Yeah, 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:41.400 either that or it's like a boy named Sue situation, 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:46.040 and it turns out that's actually a bad idea. Yeah. Uh. 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:49.720 So he was born on July three in a small 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:51.800 Italian town that I'm not going to try to pronounce 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:55.680 right now. His father Alessandro was a blacksmith and a socialist. 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:59.760 He named Benito after Mexican President Benito Warez, who's the 0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:02.600 name sake of Juarez and who was the first indigenous 0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:07.359 president of Mexico. Um and was a famous liberal. You know. Um, 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:10.040 I thought that was interesting. I had super interest. Yeah yeah, 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:14.319 uh yeah in nineteen o two. So that's like his background. 0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:16.960 He goes a very left wing, right, like, your parents 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:19.840 are naming you after the liberal indigenous president of Mexico. 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:23.800 Like that's that's quite a thing. That's a flex right there. Yeah, 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:27.000 what a pivot. Yeah, this guy is one of the 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:31.000 great all time historic pivots, you know. Um. In nineteen 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:35.000 o two, Benito fled to Switzerland to avoid compulsory military service. 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:37.959 He became active in the Italian socialist movement from Afar, 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:41.480 and he grew obsessed with the writing of syndicalist Georges Morel, 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:44.640 who believed that capitalist democracy needed to be overthrown by 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:48.240 a combination of general strikes and violent direct action. So 0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:50.240 he's he's a socialist, he's a leftist, but he's a 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:51.840 fan of these guys who are like, we need a 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:54.960 revolution and violence is okay in that revolution. Right, that's 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:58.600 like a big, big chunk of his early ideological upbringing. 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:01.800 In nineteen o or, Benito returned to Italy under a 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:05.160 general amnesty for draft dodgers in exchange for which he's 0:14:05.440 --> 0:14:07.520 he had to serve in the military for two years. 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:09.480 He did his time, he got out, and he became 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:12.480 a left wing journalist and a firebrand, participating in a 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:16.800 nineteen eleven riot protesting Italy's imperialist war in Libya. He 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:19.240 did night or five months in prison for this. So 0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:22.280 not just like a talker, like he puts his skin 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:25.400 in the game and he does time protesting and imperialist war. 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:29.760 Dang all right, okay, yeah, yeah he was. He was. 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:32.200 He was not like wishy washy about this stuff. I 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:35.080 guess it's the point I'm making. So as a hardcore leftist, 0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:37.640 Mussolini hated the monarchy, which in Italy at the time 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:40.000 was similar in its kind of power to the British monarchy. 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:43.000 Italy is a constitutional monarchy at this point, so more 0:14:43.080 --> 0:14:44.800 or less a democracy. But they've got a king and 0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:48.640 he has some power. Um. In nineteen twelve, Mussolini stated 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:51.520 the king is nothing more than a useless citizen, and 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:57.120 the Italian flag is fit only for a dung heap. Yeah, 0:14:57.320 --> 0:15:00.600 burn it all down, burn it all down kind of guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:04.480 very much, very much. Now, it may seem odd that 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:07.720 the first fascist dictator was a committed left wing activist 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:09.760 in his youth, but it's really not that strange. This 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:12.000 is a pattern that we see repeating itself over and 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:14.840 over throughout the history of fascism. In more recent times, 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:16.440 just to talk about stuff that's happened in the last 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:19.960 like four years, Jason Kessler, who's the fascist who planned 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:22.520 and organized the first Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:25.560 got his starting political activism and occupy in New York. 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:28.120 You can find in Unicorn Rights discord jets him talking 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:32.840 about being very indu occupy at the time. Um Andrew Arenheimer, 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:35.480 we've who's a neo Nazi hacker and a prominent member 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:37.560 of the fascist movement in this country, claims to have 0:15:37.560 --> 0:15:40.520 been an organizer at Occupy Wall Street. I found discussions 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:44.600 in Unicorn Riots archive where we've debates with other Nazis 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:47.360 who were there about how Occupied could have been handled 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:50.400 differently and been more successful. And for a lot of 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:53.200 these Nazis, the failure of the occupy movement to garner 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:55.280 any real change, and the ease with which the police 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:58.480 swept it aside were major factors in radicalizing these guys 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:01.200 to the far right. One fascists that I found in 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:04.080 a discord conversation said quote, I was at Occupy Wall 0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:07.160 Street in two thousand eleven. It was black pilling as fuck, 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:10.120 by which he means the experience was so disheartening that 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:13.120 it pushed him towards fascism. Um. And that's really what 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:16.880 we see with Mussolini. Um. He's very involved in left 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:19.760 wing politics. He gets arrested for them, and he sees 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:23.520 them continue to fail. Right. They don't succeed in overthrowing 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:25.760 the government, they don't succeed in pushing the changes that 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:29.560 he believes are necessary, and it starts to embitter him. 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:33.600 I I often think that like some of that happens 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:37.680 in the black community with just also like like still 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:40.280 trying to wrap my brain around Like I saw a 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:44.240 video Crips for Trump on the on the UH at 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:46.920 the at the at the at the insurrection earlier. It's 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:50.440 like Chris for Chump west Side something something in and 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:54.200 I could not wrap my brain around, Like how does 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:56.240 will work? But I think it's it. I think a 0:16:56.280 --> 0:16:58.360 lot of it does have to do with the fact that, like, 0:16:59.200 --> 0:17:01.560 you know, we've tried so hard, we put our flag 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:05.800 in the sand with this particular way of approaching, you know, 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:09.720 political change, and it's not working, that you're like, well 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:14.120 forget it, you know, and then like, well, maybe this 0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:18.440 will work, Maybe this going this direction speaks more to like, 0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:21.520 since the Empire the machine just met us with might 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:25.160 and just overpowered us with might because they're just they're 0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:29.679 just more powerful, you'll only recourse is to be like, 0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:34.159 well I need to be more powerful than that. I 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:38.320 don't know, yes, yes, that's exactly when you when you're 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:40.600 I think you're really onto something like when you're when 0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:45.320 you're getting your ass kicked. And I think some of 0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:47.320 this is that I think it's probably more common with 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:50.600 males who are kind of activism, like and you get 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:53.879 your pride is harm by getting the ship kicked out 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:56.840 of you repeatedly, by the repeated failure to win, to 0:17:56.960 --> 0:18:00.439 advance by the sheer strength of your opponent. I do 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:04.080 think that that can have the effect of pushing people 0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:07.240 in that kind of more violent authoritarian direction where you're like, well, 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:10.159 I just want to win, Like, yeah, I wouldn't be 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:13.000 surprised if that has if that's a part of what's 0:18:13.000 --> 0:18:15.800 going on, And I think it is for Mussolini, because 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:18.600 the switch for him really happens as a result of 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:22.080 World War One. Um. So basically what you've got with 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:25.720 World War one, Archduke friends Ferdinand get shot Dad along 0:18:25.760 --> 0:18:29.000 with his wife, and it starts this this series of 0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:33.040 events right um, where Austria is going to invade Serbia 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:34.879 and Russia is going to come in on the side 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:38.159 of and like it starts this whole domino effect. And 0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:43.120 so there's months between his assassination and the actual outbreak 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:46.080 of the war where everyone knows that Europe is gearing 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:49.320 up for a war. And prior to that happening, the 0:18:49.359 --> 0:18:54.000 international left, the communist international, largely had been very anti war, 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:57.440 very united across national boundaries. But as soon as a 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:01.040 mass European war becomes a reality, ship starts to splinter. 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:02.800 And there are a lot of folks who had been 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:06.040 socialist leftist like workers who instead of kind of siding 0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:08.439 with workers Solidarity or like, well, I'm gonna side with 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:12.320 my country on this um. And you know that's not 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:14.879 the only thing that's happening. There's also like this, the 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:19.000 Second International tries to organize like some sort of workers 0:19:19.000 --> 0:19:20.800 strike or something like. There's a couple of ideas about 0:19:20.800 --> 0:19:23.720 how they might stop the war by organizing workers, and 0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:28.000 all of these ideas fail. Um. And you know, all 0:19:28.040 --> 0:19:31.960 of these ideas fail, and Europe lurches towards war. And 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:35.520 it's kind of like this moment where this big international 0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:38.960 left wing movement shows it that it's toothless in the 0:19:39.000 --> 0:19:40.360 eyes of at least of the eyes of a guy 0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:42.439 like Mussolini. Like we said like this, we weren't going 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:46.280 to let this kind of thing happen, and now it's happening. Um. 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:48.280 So that that for one thing as a source of 0:19:48.320 --> 0:19:52.000 frustration to a lot of people. Um. Mussolini is more 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:56.200 directly enraged by something that happens earlier in nineteen fourteen, UM, 0:19:56.240 --> 0:19:58.560 something called Red Week, which was when a bunch of 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:01.199 workers there's a big mass workers revolt in Italy that 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:05.840 was brutally put down by Italian police and the Royal army. UM. 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:08.640 And this had kind of convinced him that the bourgeoisie 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:11.960 leaders of left wing political parties, the actual like liberals 0:20:11.960 --> 0:20:16.000 and socialists and government didn't really support revolution and he did, 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:18.760 so all of this stuff is kind of in the mix, 0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:21.760 leading to him getting kind of black pilled, to use 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:25.119 the words of that other Nazi. Um And Benito doesn't 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:27.920 come out as against the war as a result of this. Instead, 0:20:28.000 --> 0:20:32.040 he decides to become incredibly pro war because he thinks 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:35.040 it's going to accelerate the collapse of the Italian state 0:20:35.080 --> 0:20:38.760 and lead to a revolution, right. Um So, in mid September, 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:42.400 after Italy announced her neutrality in the war, Benito tells 0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:45.200 the staff of the newspaper he worked at, Avanti, which 0:20:45.200 --> 0:20:47.840 was a socialist paper, that he'd become convinced that war 0:20:47.920 --> 0:20:51.120 alone could bring revolution to Italy. Um So, yeah, he's 0:20:51.160 --> 0:20:52.600 kind of like an acceleration is we need to go 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:55.000 to war because that's going to force a revolution, is 0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:58.480 the only way? Yeah, yeah, I I yeah. When you 0:20:58.800 --> 0:21:02.320 it's it's a always at least in my head, like 0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:05.919 I've I've kind of let go of the like linear 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:10.560 swing of like you know, far right far left in 0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:12.479 my brain. I know, we use that because that's how 0:21:12.520 --> 0:21:15.640 we understand the world right now, but like it seems 0:21:15.720 --> 0:21:21.280 much more like circular to where it's like, uh, they 0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:24.520 ended authoritarianism. At the end of the day, they end 0:21:24.560 --> 0:21:28.359 with a with a strong dude like so so it 0:21:28.480 --> 0:21:31.119 was crazy like yeah, so like the further left you go, 0:21:32.920 --> 0:21:40.359 You're still gonna end that a dude overpowering. I think, yeah, 0:21:40.400 --> 0:21:42.960 I I which I was gonna say, which which why 0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:50.160 like I'm now leaning more towards thinking in anarchist ways 0:21:50.320 --> 0:21:53.040 of being, Like, you gotta get off this loop. It's 0:21:53.080 --> 0:21:58.119 just this the whole it's there. We're gonna land in 0:21:58.160 --> 0:22:02.080 the same place at some point, somebody's going to get oppressed, 0:22:02.320 --> 0:22:05.080 you know. Yeah, and what you're so, there's a couple 0:22:05.080 --> 0:22:07.119 of things, a couple of terms that are used a 0:22:07.119 --> 0:22:09.360 lot for the kind of thought process that you just explained. 0:22:09.359 --> 0:22:11.480 One of them is horseshoe theory, which is this idea 0:22:11.560 --> 0:22:13.640 that the left and the right, when you go far enough, 0:22:13.680 --> 0:22:15.960 come around to the same place. And I I don't 0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:18.640 subscribe to that because I don't think that left wing 0:22:18.720 --> 0:22:22.480 ideals and far right ideals are super similar. But I 0:22:22.560 --> 0:22:24.480 do think that what you see that looks like that. 0:22:24.520 --> 0:22:27.320 The reason why the far left and say Soviet Russia 0:22:27.400 --> 0:22:31.000 under Stalin and the totalitarianism of Hitler have a lot 0:22:31.080 --> 0:22:36.360 of similarities and similar body counts. Is because authoritarians always 0:22:36.560 --> 0:22:40.560 trying to say exactly exactly it's the authoritarian left, authoritarian right. 0:22:40.640 --> 0:22:43.520